#assassination
royal lantern
brazen zodiac
huh
fathom hound
Okay I see whats happening then
fathom hound
Blizzard decided that feral should just do what Sin does, so they just stopped caring about Sin and hope that players forget it exists as a spec
gaunt moat
I think they might look at sin as a more pvp oriented spec
vague widget
Blizz hates sin so they kneejerk nerf it and can't admit error. Smile.
raven knoll
Yet Blizzard is constantly reminded of assa when they have to create a tier set for it
royal lantern
Blizzard decided that feral should just do what Sin does, so they just stopped c...
i mean more like, feral was budget assa for ages, so they reworked feral and gave it a working kit, but never did anything for assa except some bandaid %buffs
fathom hound
And everytime they try to rework / fix sin, they jsut make a feral clone.
winged veldt
Take that 5% nerf across the board for rogue abck. Just revert it lol
royal lantern
I think they might look at sin as a more pvp oriented spec
if anything thats sub lol, they have litearlly talents in their tree that are mostly pvp based
limber lion
Not great :(
vestal wren
Blizzard decided that feral should just do what Sin does, so they just stopped c...
i think its just a diffrent designer
iirc realz did not design feral
raven knoll
And everytime they try to rework / fix sin, they jsut make a feral clone.
Show me the rework. I'd love to see the rework you speak of
uncut echo
I think they might look at sin as a more pvp oriented spec
That's sub
fathom hound
So feral and sin are dead even on terros 95%, and then 35k different on council 95%
fathom hound
Show me the rework. I'd love to see the rework you speak of
I meant more like internal rework
gaunt moat
except sin is one of the most played specs in pvp, not sub.
uncut echo
Yeah, bc sub got deleted
vague widget
When sub does too well in pvp they basically neuter it for a year.
raven knoll
right now because assa is good in PvP
uncut echo
Sectech got annihilated
royal lantern
except sin is one of the most played specs in pvp, not sub.
cus assa is overtuned in pvp rn
and sub isnt
uncut echo
Historically sub has been the defacto pvp spec
royal lantern
pvp is always just "what spec is overtuned? play it"
gaunt moat
i know
uncut echo
Okay?
royal lantern
- PvP lol
spice spire
uncut echo
royal lantern
That’s literally a Rh emote
still need nitro for animated emotes
spice spire
still need nitro for animated emotes
Sorry I don’t speak peasant 
royal lantern
fathom hound
2400+ raiding there are an equal amount of feral druids and sin rogues lol
feral has twice as many at 2700+
royal lantern
i mean, thats not suprising at all
spice spire
Oh rating
uncut echo
still need nitro for animated emotes
Unpoor yourself
royal lantern
most people that wanna do m+ wont play assa for it rn
raven knoll
ppl play whats good
royal lantern
when you can just go sub and fok->blackpowder to top dps
fathom hound
Arena rating*
gaunt moat
Druid is one of the most played classes.
fathom hound
Not IO
fathom hound
I thought sin was suppose to be amazing in pvp
2700 has like 6 ferals, 2 sin rogues omegalul
raven knoll
twice as much is how many people in wow pvp? 7?
3,5 ferals
raven knoll
I mean
fathom hound
It just seems like feral is better than sin in every single aspect of the game
proven jasper
i mean people see nerfs to a spec and drop it like an old toy they grew out of
royal lantern
oh, you mean assa in pvp
spice spire
Happens when a class gets nerfed multiple times in every aspect of the game
royal lantern
i thought you mean pvp in general
spice spire
raven knoll
if you look at the most unpopular classes/specs they are usually the worst
royal lantern
(case is still the same, PvP lol)
raven knoll
or maybe even always the worst
royal lantern
i mean people see nerfs to a spec and drop it like an old toy they grew out of
outlaw "nerf" (it was a buff) but all went sub
vestal wren
Happens when a class gets nerfed multiple times in every aspect of the game
i still think we need more public information about balance
proven jasper
outlaw "nerf" (it was a buff) but all went sub <:starege:923197272064426075>
🤷🏼♂️
raven knoll
Yes but you have to work 10x harder than other specs. Thats just grind
royal lantern
it always feels like people have no idea about balance
well, DUUUUH
spice spire
I mean
royal lantern
spice spire
It does feel like allocation of resources are lacking
They felt rogue was “done” and then moved to balancing everything else
Is what it seems like
copper hazel
we gave them too much feedback, made it too easy
vestal wren
but atm when you have people sim 100k-110k dps
vs. 90k on rogue
def. sounds balanced
fathom hound
My 418 DH sims 82k 😦
spice spire
I mean my thoughts have been static. Rogue tuning made sense early on if they planned on maintaining it as is.
They just buffed everything else after so rogue looks poop
fathom hound
I mean sub is still like the best spec in M+ right?
royal lantern
I mean sub is still like the best spec in M+ right?
best rogue spec for everything
inc: BUT 2 TARGET!!!!
as if 2 target is a thing rn that actually happens lol
vestal wren
technically
sub is behind in single tagrte and low target cleave
but yes, its better in every content because it is better in aoe
royal lantern
why do you guys always say sub is behind in single target when in most logs it does the same, and sim wise is like 800dps behind
vestal wren
and aoe is very relevant in raid and m+
royal lantern
like bruh, dont make it sound as if playing sub means you do 10%less st dmg
fathom hound
is Secret technique not target capped?
vestal wren
na subw as like 2-3k behind
but well we got the trinket upgrade
and now in 10.0.7 the ring
so it closes the gap
its basically this
gaunt moat
cleave for sin?
vestal wren
single tagret - is quite self explaining
cleave - 2-3 targets usually
aoe - either 3+ or 5+ depending who you ask
gusty mirage
cleave for sin?
yeah its when we throw a rupture on 1-2 extra targets and pretend we're doing damage
grand dagger
yeah its when we throw a rupture on 1-2 extra targets and pretend we're doing da...
don't forget garrote lolol
vestal wren
i think there is a good point to be made
vestal wren
how much you need to trade off to get each
gusty mirage
can't take scent inST
unlucky
holy shit what a disaster assassination has turned into
spice spire
So promising 
gusty mirage
pls lord ion let me kill bird tonight
so I can be done
forever
and never play this terrible game again
amen
pick one what dog
sin has aoe
gusty mirage
yeah I once got double sophic procs in an opener w/ puzzle box and lust in a 22 halls of valor
and did 450k dps
WOW
overall?
90k
WOW
our evoker died
so things lived longer
spice spire
It’s the sophic procs that held you back trust 
grand dagger
I always want to try Sin in M+ but then I feel ashamed of the choice and swap specs during the pull timer
gaunt moat
meanwhile i see naggura doing +26s with spriest and fury
they're each at like 160k overall 🙂
spice spire
Weak mental 
oak sky
Spriest is op
gusty mirage
meanwhile i see naggura doing +26s with spriest and fury
they're each at like 16...
skill issue tbh
gaunt moat
for sure
gusty mirage
we just need to press our buttons harder I think
grand dagger
*faster
gusty mirage
no no harder
remember
they wanted to implement more lost ark style gameplay
maybe if we hold down our envenom button it won't hit like a wet noodle
vestal wren
never played lost ark
grand dagger
imagine having to charge up rupture
grand dagger
kekw tru
gusty mirage
btw @vestal wren fun fact, if your initial rupture gets parried you get the finality buff still
royal lantern
you mean when you pick aoe its 40%of the aoe bar filled
meanwhile the full st build dh pressed blade dance once and did more aoe dmg 
gusty mirage
it procs the finality buff so you can just get a full empowered rupture right off the bat
I'd like to thank rasz for teaching me this important lesson
vestal wren
btw <@194804407706189824> fun fact, if your initial rupture gets parried you get...
yes, finality works like this forever
gusty mirage
yes, finality works like this forever
it also extends snd for assa
vestal wren
fun fact
gusty mirage
vestal wren
silent storm for some unknown reason
does proc again during dance
(so you get it twice in dance)
but thats it with the "positive" bugs/interactions, and you fast end up with the negative ones
royal lantern
god, sub is such a mess aswell rn
it just has high numbers
but like, so much broken shit
gusty mirage
its okay guys
royal lantern
and just plain stupid stuff
gusty mirage
rumor is thierry henry wants to coach the US Men's national team
fathom hound
POG
royal lantern
gloomblade doing more dmg than shadowstrike 
gusty mirage
proven jasper
I mean atleast sub doesnt play like a spec from 2014
proven jasper
more than sin?
gusty mirage
more than sin?
buddy
royal lantern
can people stop pretending assa is boring, and sub is some 2023 2000IQ spec
proven jasper
Okay sorry missed a few years
fathom hound
We should jsut make sin a poison spec, fuck bleeds. What does bleeding even have to do with an assassination?!?!
raven knoll
we did not have mutilate or envenom in 2004 I think
gusty mirage
We should jsut make sin a poison spec, fuck bleeds. What does bleeding even have...
they did that
vestal wren
can people stop pretending assa is boring, and sub is some 2023 2000IQ spec
wait, so you say people do enjoy assassination?
royal lantern
you litearlly slam everything on CD, your standart generator does more dmg than the special shadowdance ability
gusty mirage
then they giga nerfed poisons
royal lantern
like bruh
gusty mirage
unlucky
royal lantern
sub people rn just show me once again that for 99,99999% of the wow community, high dmg=good gameplay and fun
and nothing more
vestal wren
i mean its the same with sin
if the numbers would be higher, it wouldn't be so much dooming
it is normal, number tuning is essential for player feedback
royal lantern
well duh, ofc
both specs are in a dire need of a full rework and an actuall direction
what went wrong with sub, that the "burst dmg spec" is litearlly doing the most dmg with its basic filler
like wtf
royal lantern
and you dont aling ANYTHING for a burst window, just send on CD
burst window spec btw
vestal wren
and the KB change was kinda meh
proven jasper
?
royal lantern
sub is just as broken as assa rn, it just has high numbers
storm belfry
Yep
royal lantern
Is shadow dance not ur burst window?
omg the big burst window where the shadow dance only ability litearlly does less dmg than the basic ass filler
fathom hound
@royal lantern You should talk to fire mages
royal lantern
shadowdance could be a generic "you do x% more dmg" ability and nothing would change
proven jasper
What
royal lantern
can remove the entire stealth aspect, would make no difference
fathom hound
You use shadowstrike once
royal lantern
you use strike once cus it does less dmg than purple backstab
vestal wren
sub is just as broken as assa rn, it just has high numbers
btw. sub isn't even that insane in one specific thing, just can get away trading off single tagrte for aoe and vice versa
royal lantern
and you only use sectech cus it has a dmg amp
proven jasper
Already youve proved ur point
vestal wren
and thats quite good in the raid
proven jasper
alright*
royal lantern
like i said, can litearlly remove the stealth aspect and it would not make a difference
fathom hound
Well yoiu would lose 2% dmg I think from the macbre dance thing
Do you ever take CT without taking IC?
proven jasper
Why couldnt they just give sin a multi hi envenom or something that like interacts with pb
royal lantern
cus that would mean doing more than a "X ability does %more dmg" buff
proven jasper
multi hit*
fathom hound
If not, then they should probably move IC to like after CT or just makie CT do what IC does
storm belfry
You use shadowstrike once
vestal wren
cant wait for the big assa aoe fix: 15%more CT dmg
just introduce a new ability, red powder
fathom hound
lmao
spice spire
just introduce a new ability, red powder
True it does initial damage and then bleeds for 12s
vestal wren
its like black powder, but it has a red animation
spice spire
fathom hound
Just repalce CT with PB, and make it castable
vestal wren
funny trivia
royal lantern
just introduce a new ability, red powder
to stay in tradition with sub vs assa rupture, red powder does the same, but less dmg
oak sky
just introduce a new ability, red powder
Red ink
proven jasper
Does anyone actually like using ct?
fathom hound
Loved how parsing used to be "I didnt get any PB procs lmao"
royal lantern
Does anyone actually like using ct?
its a shit ability, most reasonable people dont like it
gaunt moat
Does anyone actually like using ct?
blizzard devs 🙂
royal lantern
cus it has no interactions with the kit at all, in any shape or form
storm belfry
I don’t mind maintaining CT on AOE
vestal wren
Does anyone actually like using ct?
i think it is nice if you need to play it tactical and not just "spam" it
storm belfry
Idc to maintain it in ST
proven jasper
i think it is nice if you need to play it tactical and not just "spam" it
Yeah i think this a good way to put it
spice spire
proven jasper
Spamming it isnt fun
spice spire
Spamming is not fun
proven jasper
but like using it as just an aoe dot finisher feels alright
spice spire
I agree
gaunt moat
sorry that gif was annoying
proven jasper
I think the other thing that feels awful is pressing fan of knives in like a pack of 10 mobs and getting 2 cp :)))
fathom hound
🤮
gaunt moat
@spice spire you havent't seen the builds @royal lantern comes up with
vestal wren
Spamming is not fun
do i see a subtlety angle?
spice spire
do i see a subtlety angle?
You never will
Dedicated OTP of sin
Unlike fraud oxi and whispyr!!!!!
spice spire
<@226508540746006528> you havent't seen the builds <@346293680883236864> comes u...
Have you met @keen spruce
fathom hound
TBH, most of the time mobs are being kited, so Envenom in aoe just doesnt make sense lol
Just use it to maintain buff and ct spam
proven jasper
I mean
fathom hound
Like I can hit 12 things with CT or 3 things with PB
proven jasper
does anyone play the multi target shiv build in m+? Or just dtb and ic
frozen jasper
Dtb/ic unless group forces me to play ap for soothing stuff during a raging week lol
fathom hound
Just get a dragon
storm belfry
Seeing assa rogue in this raid testing stream 
gaunt moat
link
gaunt moat
oh
fathom hound
Unrelated note, I love how useless sin rogues are at imps in COS
frozen jasper
True that but im trying to please the Tank so he dont get mad when noone soothes
fathom hound
What are you gonna do to them? IC? They die in like 5 secs lol
I mean, sure, but you shoul;d already have an aoe cc
And you jsut wasted a 45 sec dmg cd for utility
gaunt moat
Well first fight in abbarus is pure ST
gaunt moat
*shadowfwame
chilly prawn
Is ass Aoe more interesting than sub Aoe?
thorny pond
Is ass Aoe more interesting than sub Aoe?
define "interesting"
chilly prawn
Sub rogue Is press the genewator then the spwender
thorny pond
that's all rogues mate
chilly prawn
Gotcha
raven knoll
if you have IC its pretty much the same. Except on 10 targets when you press FoK you might get 1 combo point
thorny pond
Sin gets to hit "tab" then apply a finisher
thorny pond
But both are more nuanced than just "build, finish"
astral kindle
mythic Sennarth
hardy dagger
Is a boss
storm belfry
Sub rogue Is press the genewator then the spwender
Lmfao
Saying “press” and not “pwess” 
pulsar dirge
how is assa on dathea ? do i need to swap to the worse speccs? 😢
balmy condor
It does boss damage
Just pray your raid lead isn’t dumb enough to put you on a platform
signal badger
royal lantern
<@226508540746006528> you havent't seen the builds <@346293680883236864> comes u...
huh
what did i do
wind condor
Raz should die tonight, then I can kick my feet up and chill on bosses until 10.1
balmy condor
Because it adds more damage
midnight spire
it says I have 600 versa and its giving me 6.94% dmg on all skills. While 4.1k is giving about 39% dmg increase on only bleeds and poisons.
balmy condor
That doesn’t sound right
midnight spire
ahh.. I stripped naked and I have 4% versa
balmy condor
Yeh
That sounds better
Should be like 40 vers for 1%
Or something like that
And 35 mastery for 1 mastery point
balmy condor
1 mastery point converts to I wanna say 1.7% mastery
crisp pine
If I stack Avoidance can I avoid my bleeds running out in AoE tho?
gusty mirage
balmy condor
chilly prawn
Saying “press” and not “pwess” <:ICANT:981362381433241660>
I'm swuch a noob
storm belfry
<a:whispyrloading:1085826892327825439>
I love this
balmy condor
It’s pretty good
frigid pilot
That dude definitely uwus people in dms
abstract junco
Zero Rogue mention in the official 10.0.7 patch notes is such a Thursday all of the times vibe
oak sky
We knew that already though
abstract junco
Indeed
strange orchid
crisp pine
No
flint tusk
wait are we actually the only class to get zero changes at all in 10.0.7? xD
fathom hound
🙂
copper hazel
silk bane
theres no raid in 10.07
fleet pagoda
wait are we actually the only class to get zero changes at all in 10.0.7? xD
it's just because they're cookin' up something big for rogues in 10.1 don't worry 
silk bane
someone call an ambulance this man about to die of cope overdose
silk bane
oh yeah when i see them spin i just think wow thats rogueiest theme evaaaa
flint tusk
They're going to fix Exsang 
copper hazel
then you see ferals
flint tusk
100%
silk bane
hopefully by fix u mean nuke from existence
drifting cosmos
lots of copium
fleet pagoda
is the new raid tier looking as cleave heavy as Vault?
oak sky
Gotta see mythic
Raid testing is ongoing its a little tough to know for sure until you do the fights
serene fossil
is there a way to use wowanalyzer on wipes if you never killed the boss?
spice spire
is there a way to use wowanalyzer on wipes if you never killed the boss?
Yeah you should be able to slam the log in via link
serene fossil
Yeah you should be able to slam the log in via link
Tried, it just shows bosses that got killed 😦
This is all it shows @spice spire
spice spire
serene fossil
Sadge
keen spruce
I made it to level 18 in HC on my first character then got overconfident and pulled the 3 troggs in loch modan
balmy condor
is there a way to use wowanalyzer on wipes if you never killed the boss?
@main vessel might know something about that
cause I think it's weird it shows the wipes for the bosses killed
but not the wipes for the bosses not killed
void pecan
I too would like to know this because I need to figure out how to do better on m grimtotem
as any of the 3 specs. 
serene fossil
as any of the 3 specs. <:FeelsBadMan:230450450430689280>
Other 2 specs arent supported. 
Outlaw vs sub i had the easiest time myself, just cleave on everything lol
void pecan
I do but my damage, is still dog water 😐
Probably doesn't help my gear is sub M+ stats
sudden canyon
any ptr raid testers running sin
velvet ridge
bruh, what if... hear me out, what if kingsbane just took exsanguinates spot
balmy condor
then we would permanently play dtb + kb
slate scarab
But we would be good again
fleet pagoda
we'd just be going from one KB problem to another, and our ST is already servicable.
storm onyx
bruh, what if... hear me out, what if kingsbane just took exsanguinates spot
That also would end up with Blizz tuning KB according to DTB interaction. Then the change ends up being just another push button instead of build versitility,
With no apparent gain or something
fleet pagoda
That also would end up with Blizz tuning KB according to DTB interaction. Then t...
and if it was tuned that way, it'd be like useless without dtb. quite a pickle of a talent lol
rare ledge
is it grief to use a t2 primal gem instead of t3
lucid mirage
How do we perform on Mythic Kurog vs other specs? Just started prog and debating what to play
main vessel
<@133059911784333312> might know something about that
I will check
royal lantern
How do we perform on Mythic Kurog vs other specs? Just started prog and debating...
assa? its allright
add dmg on kurog at thia point is not a real thing anymore
main vessel
One of my guilds rogues played assa on our Kurog kills
royal lantern
so you just blast kurog and keep garrote and rupture on the big add, thats it
lucid mirage
im most comfortable on sin, so that's good. If DM/Exang comes up during intermission is it better to hold or just send
something ive been juggling all tier
lucid mirage
i think most of the time deathmark/vanish comes up on first set of intermission adds and i always have a mental battle to hold or send
main vessel
is there a way to use wowanalyzer on wipes if you never killed the boss?
is there a log link that I can try?
oblique jackal
Is anyone else sim for ST higher for sub then Sin?
round harbor
what was the one trinket from Crucible of storms the restless cabal that put a shield on you? it was called diamond something but i forget where it was from
round harbor
ty
next dune
Is it better to just hold exang until bloodlust on pull wears off, since you're always holding it for a minute on its second use anyway? or does it really matter
autumn frost
You're holding it for a minute to sync with deathmark
oak tangle
why would you want to hold exsa for end of lust
next dune
because lust already caps your energy. if you wait till lust is off, wont you get the added energy tics?
oak tangle
haste also increases tick rate of dots
next dune
Didnt think it still did that
oak tangle
also i genuinely dont really feel energy capped in lust
next dune
it did in shadowlands and before, but now it doesnt say that haste increases dot tic rates
next dune
im probably overthinking it anyway lol
was just figuring since you get the energy during exang, and your holding it for deathmark on exangs 2nd use anyway, may as well hold it for after lust
oak tangle
it's honestly less lust and more dm that caps you
next dune
true
viscid spear
brood down <:PES_Dab:498485279427133441>
Ring?
keen spruce
daggie
no torches no rings
Can i get the run down on P1 wing handling?
like spark notes
viscid spear
no torches no rings
keen spruce
no
drifting cloud
cloak 3 or 4, rest doesnt matter
drifting cloud
you dont have to
but you probably should
the 1 step is more noticable in p3 and one pushback in p2
in p1 it just causes you to slightly run back to the boss on winds 3 or 4
hoary kernel
Is this true or is this just in the past?
drifting cloud
yeah theres literally only 2 times outside of p1 where 1 dance is annoying
and they are usually covered by evoker sprint + youre immortal rogue
hoary kernel
i dont really look at these charts because i dont care, but somebody sent it to me
oblique jackal
its true
oak tangle
i mean it makes the spec look doom, but if you sort by damage to bosses then we look better
and at the end of the day, if adds get cleaved and boss dies is all that matters
you just dont 'beat' the others
oblique jackal
^
unreal bear
im garbage at the council spec
oak tangle
go sub for a free 20k dps
runic hinge
I’m so bad at sub tbh
runic hinge
Lmao
I tried it a couple weeks and I just can’t get a good rhythm
I played feral for a long time and sin just works well for me
oak tangle
yeah, it is fun multidotting on 4 targets
unreal bear
go sub for a free 20k dps
i point to my 70k parse as sub as a way to convince people that im better off as sin for council
runic hinge
i point to my 70k parse as sub as a way to convince people that im better off as...
Lmao same
uncut echo
Council is fun
feels sub
uncut echo
Mythic
unreal bear
my bad 80k
runic hinge
Mythic
I’ve killed council on mythic twice. Once as sun and once as sin and sin was higher but the sub pull was my first time seeing the fight so idk
uncut echo
<:Trashpandascheme:1082778449015480330>
oak tangle
Heroic looks nicer
drifting cloud
<:Trashpandascheme:1082778449015480330>
ic
earnest remnant
https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/949855729219694603.gif?size=128&quality=lossle...
runic hinge
Heroic looks nicer
This just council?
oak tangle
Yeah
keen spruce
we did the first sparks 
oak tangle
I’ve only pugged first 2 mythic so not really more than aotc Andy myself
oak tangle
i wanna do more, but at the same time im not leaving my guild which only does aotc
so kinda stuck, will have to do mythic on an alt if i wanna prog
storm belfry
My M council 
drifting cloud
mines better
keen spruce
oblique jackal
Link your build tony
runic hinge
i wanna do more, but at the same time im not leaving my guild which only does ao...
My work schedule is just shit for finding a mythic guild
keen spruce
can someone link the CC macro for raz sparks?
runic hinge
Link your build tony
I’m pretty sure it was just the AP + IC build in the faq but I’m not at my computer right now to know exactly
spare crow
storm belfry
whats you guys' overalls in 21s?
lusty surge
depends on the key
storm belfry
RLP for examp
lusty surge
i think my best was around 90k for sin
storm belfry
I only ever paid attention to my dps overall 
yeah idk, ive always enjoyed sub in pvp
not really fun for me personally in pve
but i do enjoy some OL sometimes
storm belfry
i can respect it
idk maybe had these been better players my overall couldve been lower
lusty surge
yea its too dependent on comp key and skill
to really pay much mind to
as long as youre in the ballpark
its fine
storm belfry
its way more than my dslice sim
but still, wanted to ask to compare to others
ty for input
fleet pagoda
when the other dps do a bit more and they're more front-loaded on their damage it'll be harder to get that overall; especially on Tyran weeks. but you owned here!
which key was it?
storm belfry
21 RLP
fleet pagoda
nice work
storm belfry
ty 
oak tangle
21 RLP
how much did you do on melidrussa?
that's a 20 (granted im not the best at sub)
also was last week
oak tangle
if i padded at all on the first boss adds, might close the gap
storm belfry
in key atm ill check after
oak tangle
so pretty even between specs granted you cant gather much from that
ebon notch
that's a 20 (granted im not the best at sub)
Wtf is this details setup
Top DPS at the bottom?
oak tangle
i do it on purpose XD
it's cause details sits in my bottom of screen, so the drag button goes upwards, and so rather than the names being dragged with it, it instead shows more lines as i drag
storm belfry
how much did you do on melidrussa?
was 102 sorry
oak tangle
either way, that's some nicer overall, but i imagine it's inflated this week with IC dots probs nuking inside zoldyck
storm belfry
2nd boss was only 65k but top
and last i was 2nd w 98k
oh wait
was 75k on top
i was looking at the current key KEKW
unreal bear
finally kileld sennarth after about 93 pulls
im running with some boomer guild and it took about 20 pulls to get people to stop spreading webs everywhere
i'm assuming another 50 until 3-4 people stop getting yoinked off every time
gaunt moat
I for one, think it's very cool that litteraly every class (except rogue) gets buffs in 1.0.7
It just means that rogue is the benchmark to compare to, and that rogue is perfect and special and people that play it are very pretty too
unreal bear
playing sin is a politically motivated act at this point
gusty mirage
I for one, think it's very cool that litteraly every class (except rogue) gets b...
True
Rogue is perfectly tuned
gaunt moat
Realz have been working really hard on the new rogue changes. It's just that there's nothing to change because it's perfect the way it is.
Only thing that would make it better is if Crimson Tempest would see more play
unreal bear
2/3 of the specs are really good, the other one does "bonkers ST"
oak sky
Rogue is perfectly tuned
nothing is tuned well without you 
gusty mirage
nothing is tuned well without you <a:smodge:893734464209965057>
We require a sacrifice to improve rogue
And I volunteered as tribute
gusty mirage
gaunt moat
It seems that way
oak sky
its gonna be wild with no you no whispyr and no cev
gusty mirage
That’s just the way the cookie crumbles homie
When the game stops being fun, no point in continuing
oak sky
well i guess cev might stick around anyways even if hes not playing thats happened before
oak sky
dont need notes when you have rally
unreal bear
and Arms
gusty mirage
Yeah I mean if I’m a fury main
I’m kinda pissed rn
Bear Druid too
Bears got nerfed lmfaoooo
They’re already the worst tank too
unreal bear
im more impressed that there's not further rogue pvp notes
oak sky
deleting blind sap and gutting kidney wasnt enough?
gusty mirage
Idk man this balancing team is legit smoking crack
unreal bear
deleting blind sap and gutting kidney wasnt enough?
they're just getting started
gusty mirage
Good
Next delete pvp completely
Awful minigame
Full of a bunch of racists and assholes
gaunt moat
To nerf rogue further in pvp you just need to disable the sign up button for it
oak sky
unreal bear
if they nerf rogue enough in pvp, naturally the balance shifts towards pve buffs
gaunt moat
Naturally 
gusty mirage
if they nerf rogue enough in pvp, naturally the balance shifts towards pve buffs
I’d also like whatever crack you’re smoking
unreal bear
"we can tune pvp and pve separately"
gusty mirage
gusty mirage
They can, but no one at blizzard plays rogue except for Qwik and he plays outlaw
So their number tuning in pvp has missed the mark repeatedly
S3 SL, they nerfed the rogue tier set instead of the real issue (Sepsis)
And then a month later
They nerf sepsis
Because the first nerf didn’t do shit
oak sky
gaunt moat
What made sepsis good in SL?
gusty mirage
Early in SL, the soul binds
oak sky
in pve sepsis wasnt a button
gusty mirage
Later on, the tier set & a super buffed legendary & conduit
oak tangle
what i love is that my assa sims 13k worse than sub in dungeonslice, with that build itself simming 15k worse than the best ST build, which ITSELF sims 17k worse than sub's aoe which only sims 6.5k worse in ST
unreal bear
sub is pretty good at ST
gusty mirage
Blizzard seemed to have forgotten the fact that they needed a conduit that increased sepsis damage by 720% at max ilvl for it to even be competitive (and it still lost)
gusty mirage
And sepsis expiring gave you shadowblades and adrenaline rush
Insane how the ability minus all of that
Is terrible
oak sky
not a very popular button in general
gusty mirage
When it was mediocre with all of that
gaunt moat
Insane how the ability minus all of that
Impossible to forsee that
oak sky
none of our covenant abilities were particularly standout though
unreal bear
when your talent is so bad that we like the 15 energy ranged mutilate with delayed combo points over it
oak sky
i think everyone would've been happy if they just got left in the shadowlands
gusty mirage
No one liked echoing reprimand except for outlaw for cdr and sub for sylv daggers
oak sky
when your talent is so bad that we like the 15 energy ranged mutilate with delay...
sbs is literally good
willow eagle
Bonespike my beloved
unreal bear
sbs is literally good
i think it's pretty boring to use, but i appreciate its strength
oak sky
not the most interesting in st, extremely cool in aoe
gusty mirage
Bonespike my beloved
It’s okay, you can always swap assassination and play a mediocre version
oak tangle
I dont actually think ER is bad, it doesn't necessarily do anything but make the spec slightly more intereactive (which i think is good)
oak sky
all the cool parts about it scale the more targets its on
gusty mirage
After playing sub for 300 pulls on rasz
unreal bear
i've been away for a few xpacs and all of the covenant abilities seemed cool but the novelty wore off pretty fast
willow eagle
It’s okay, you can always swap assassination and play a mediocre version
I am gonna do some assa keys once I catch-up on gear so definitely looking forward to bonespiking in dungeons again
gusty mirage
I regret playing assassination after the nerfs lol
oak sky
er is pretty whatever but like flagellation was at least like good on every spec
it is what it is
gusty mirage
I am gonna do some assa keys once I catch-up on gear so definitely looking forwa...
We don’t play it in dungeons
willow eagle
Bro
oak sky
I regret playing assassination after the nerfs lol
do you like sub rn?
gusty mirage
do you like sub rn?
I don’t hate it
gusty mirage
Yeah the one conveniently left off of their tier set btw
Just a smol 10% of their damage
oak tangle
i wish our aoe spender was left off the tier set
oak tangle
i wish our aoe spender was left off the talent tree
gusty mirage
I wish our talent tree was left off the talent tree
Idk I have nothing nice left to say about this game
gaunt moat
I have a feeling next week's DPS report is gonna be brutal.
But on the bright side..
That just means we'll be buffed.
Right guys?
gusty mirage
Just disappointed
oak sky
Idk I have nothing nice left to say about this game
some of the other classes are pretty cool
what a shame all their thematics suck
subtle tundra
I'd play pally
gaunt moat
seems to be quite a few ST fights
Would be cool if we were good at ST
green juniper
seems to be quite a few ST fights
Another bosses where sub rogue shines than
oak tangle
right, but we're not looking like we'll be recieving aoe tuning, so there's more hope for ST
gusty mirage
Would be cool if we were good at ST
Best I can do is “pretty okay” sorry
oak sky
talent rework NOW
oak tangle
raid actually looks pretty bad for sub
unreal bear
assassination feeling like old hybrid dps
oak sky
it would be really nice if we could get an offhand comment like "couple changes for rogue coming eventually"
gaunt moat
Surly they'll come.. eventually.
But first, maybe a few more druid reworks.
oak tangle
10.1.5 shadows 3rd rework
gusty mirage
10.1.5 shadows 3rd rework
Nah they hit their 2 per expac
This one will make them worse in every way
Now that people are enjoying it
unreal bear
im interested to see new ret in action
gusty mirage
Rework #2 that makes it ass
oak tangle
i'm gonna swap to it, because it'll still feel better than assass
oak sky
i mean like
its not that far from being better
but mind games is still a button and mind spike cant be instant cast anymore
gusty mirage
They did it in bfa and SL
Reworked it after it was in a good spot
For literally no fucking reason
oak sky
i think like
oak tangle
i think it was cause noobs gibbed themselves with STM and good people popped off with it
oak sky
they couldve literally made mind flay and mind spike combine
and then shadow is like insanely fun
gaunt moat
Can anyone explain shadow changes in a 6th grader vernecular?
oak tangle
bladeflurry
oak sky
no more mind sear
devouring plague blade flurries
no more mind sear means no more dot extension
oak tangle
shadow crash is 100% uptime
oak sky
so they made shadow crash 100% uptime
gaunt moat
I don't know what mind sear is. 6th grade please
oak sky
and they removed instant cast mind spikes
oak sky
I don't know what mind sear is. 6th grade please
aoe spender gone
now main spender blade flurries
oak tangle
they became DH, they do their st rotation in aoe
oak sky
and they had a builder that got 3 instant cast charges, really cool for movement but they scrapped that and made it replace primary filler channel
if talented
oak tangle
though actually with the crash nerf, they might not use it on st
gaunt moat
now main spender blade flurries
Why is that bad?
oak sky
Why is that bad?
the old aoe spender extended their dots but its workable
because they reduced the cd on their ic analogue
their dots enable blade flurry
oak tangle
1-8 targets, there is 0 incentive to stray from ST rotation
oak sky
and their voidform also extends dots but now it doesnt matter anymore because ic analogue cd is full uptime
so they always go the non void form cd now potentially
i think the spender stuff could end up being fun
but i think losing instant cast mind spike is ass
but on the spender issue, personally i think mind sear (old spender) is more fun
oak tangle
how much of their issues, get solved by a leap of faith that works in reverse
oak tangle
it kind of enables mind spike to be how it is though, and incentivises the greed playstyle (old STM)
oak sky
imo its better to have mind spike get procs and then mind flay not
so then that kinda becomes the choice
which builder you use
high movement mind spike
low movement mind flay
oak tangle
true, i think the compromise they've gone for, is that cancelling a mind flay is less punishing and therefore that's the movement option
oak sky
like they could even make mind flay insanity just give you surge of darkness
if you talent mind spike
like on that node
but either way i think combining them was a good idea because it made filler sort of weird
oak tangle
also with the mind blast changes, it should also allow some saving of the proc, though you wont want to for long
gaunt moat
How are all of you priests experts 
runic hinge
How is shadow crash a better version of IC but is a shorter cd and not a capstone lol
oak tangle
good question
gaunt moat
Probably a class designer that doesn't hate players 
drifting cloud
<@113078189701513216>
gaunt moat
I'm omega hung over and that gif makes me dizzy 🤢
gaunt moat
You killed the conversation memz.
thorn fjord
Living the dream playing sin on raz cause half our group can’t press the right buttons
oak tangle
You killed the conversation memz.
😢
warm parcel
I can continue
Feral might feel good but at least their new tier feels bad
Not that assas much better
oak tangle
the best cope i have for assass tier is that it will make us press things in a different order than now
warm parcel
I guess were uniquely feeling behind
Even our dots werent hasted before bfa
Devs just forgot
oak tangle
that's the cooked part and the part that makes other specs have no sympathy, is that we aren't even that far behind where it really matters. it just feels dogshit to play, and then in any aoe situation we might as well not be there
warm parcel
Aoe is a real one ye
oak tangle
they see "assass is top 4-5 ST" it's fine
warm parcel
Wildly worse feeling on aoe as assa
And talent swap swings a lot
Either full st or full aoe
oak tangle
i did a dslice, and our pure st build is only 4k behind in aoe
but our aoe build is 15k behind in st
warm parcel
Oof
oak sky
dslice isnt pure aoe though its a mix
oak tangle
yeah
oak sky
you would have to sim like 8T patchwerk
slow tulip
assa top 5 ST is good
warm parcel
Theres never 8t pw
slow tulip
btw is new raid more ST or more cleave/aoe like this one ?
warm parcel
2 bosses last night were st
oak sky
Theres never 8t pw
i mean yeah but it gives a good idea of how much aoe you get
maybe 5T
warm parcel
Simming short segments lije that is iffy
oak sky
and on the other hand dslice isnt a literal representation of how much damage you should be doing
its mostly a gear upgrade tool right
warm parcel
Ye of course
oak sky
ik you were a cf before btw i know you probably know all this shit
warm parcel
:D ye been there
oak sky
but basically what i was trying to say is since dslice has weird weighting of st vs aoe it makes sense for an st build to not sim that far off the full aoe build
slow tulip
2 bosses last night were st
so far so good
warm parcel
Absolutely
If I think like valor out of memory
First pull sub 1m 7t? Followed by 2-3m boss
Then again 6-9t depending on pull
Then 5 and 3 if separately. 8 if together
oak tangle
i think the play atm is sap 1 and do all else
warm parcel
At this point 2 minibosses st and boss again
oak tangle
probs can do all this week
warm parcel
Ye Im just doing low tier pugs and looking back. No mdi routes
But when you hit left side boss, its been maybe 8min?
About 4 of that st
oak sky
At this point 2 minibosses st and boss again
cleave minibosses usually
oak tangle
yeah halls is a very good low target count so would be okay with ST build
warm parcel
At least how we pugged them ye. No feels much more cleavy
slow marsh
St build almost never works in m+ idk
warm parcel
Or av
slow marsh
It's have to be nut at dmg
oak tangle
right, i just meant the way pugs are going IC is over capping on targets
and if not goin IC then you're kinda just the ST build
oak tangle
and with a tyr halls, st will likely save more on your timer
oak tangle
i'd include the 2 dragons, and the big sentinel guys as mini bosses
so even if pulling those with other mobs, if you have passive aoe team mates, you'd even out the damage to nuke them with a pack
warm parcel
Ye fair
Ol to me felt like cheating s1
Flurry made it so it never felt bad no matter enemy count
And sub suffers a little on st with aoe talents
oak tangle
i've never been able to grasp OL
oak tangle
likely a combination of me not liking the pirate theme, and never gearing towards it before trying it
warm parcel
Yee theme isnt my cuppa either
But i always enjoyed the infamous "flow" of ol
It just works
oak tangle
does pistol shot stagger out it's cp gen? i feel like it does, and makes me sinister strike or something when im in finisher range
warm parcel
Happens sometimes
oak tangle
mostly familiarity with it though i imagine
warm parcel
Ye theres delays on cps
oak sky
usually it all kicks in before the next global tho
warm parcel
Should ye
oak sky
maybe if you got too far from the boss
oak tangle
i'm sure i'd enjoy it more if i actually learnt, i mean it's different buttons so i end up defaulting to 'habitually' pressing a button i would on sin or something. and either forgetting ambush procs, overcapping cp, or letting RTB drop
oak sky
that comes pretty quickly with time
warm parcel
Just a lot less of a hassle than assa aoe
oak tangle
but with sub and sin, there's no real niche or need to learn
oak sky
especially the rtb stuff because you learn to reroll and then its really easy to not drop it
warm parcel
Assa aoe kinda feels bad after trying out the ferrari for a few weeks
oak tangle
don't have to mess around with other weapons than my daggers etc
oak tangle
and especially this tier, sub and sin share stat weights
warm parcel
Ye weps are nice to share
Thats maybe something blizz coul phase out
And let ol mog swords
oak tangle
i tihnk next tier will be better for alternate weapons
warm parcel
No cd on garrote #1
oak tangle
will be cheap ilvl upgrades
oak sky
even that said theres probably 3 or 4 directions they can go to make it good
warm parcel
Get rid of ct and snd#2
oak sky
No cd on garrote #1
its just gonna do less damage then
oak tangle
cut to the chase should just apply snd if not there as well
warm parcel
Just remove snd
oak tangle
it's really dumb still requiring us to press it once
oak tangle
i can go either way on that, but if the niche of sin is to perma extend, why make that keybind needed for a single press
royal lantern
Just remove snd
you called?
warm parcel
you called?
Hell ye. Were gonna win one day
serene fossil
is there a log link that I can try?
oak sky
Get rid of ct and snd#2
im fine with ct i just think it needs more to it
rotation becomes more spammy without it