assassination

[brazen zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/milj-milk-skill-issue-spill-issue-spill-gif-25572474

[unreal coyote]

that statement is so stupid bro

lol

[frigid pilot]

so is filtering by boss dam

[unreal coyote]

LOL

[frigid pilot]

boss dmg is the cope that sin rogues have been using all expo

[unreal coyote]

boss damage.....kills bosses?

[brazen zodiac]

boss dam important 💃

[agile geode]

yeh i mean that

[unreal coyote]

holy shit who is this guy

[frigid pilot]

because of this

https://tenor.com/view/clueless-aware-twitch-forsen-emote-gif-25354609

[unreal coyote]

in prog...boss dmg means a lot

[agile geode]

yeh

all bosses

kekw

nosense

i was talking about rasz

[uncut echo]

Imagine drawing pretty bar to prove a point

[frigid pilot]

diurna

less than frost mage

daaaaaaaaaamn

[agile geode]

again, is another boss

[unreal coyote]

who was talking about mages

[agile geode]

but ok

[unreal coyote]

or another boss

[agile geode]

kekw

the question was simple

[unreal coyote]

yep

smooth grey matter

imagine actually typing out that boss damage isnt important

https://tenor.com/view/mr-rogers-nightmare-clown-gif-5401671

[uncut echo]

It's not! It doesn't make your overall high!

[marble hemlock]

No offense, but if you're arguing "compare shows aoe builds on kurog" you shouldnt berate people on mythic raszageth.

[unreal coyote]

broh if you dont do add dmg youre getting carried

[agile geode]

playing assa on rasz isnt good as playing it with sub?
i mean assa more bossdmg sub more overrall dmg
but i assume u can play whatever you want right?

[unreal coyote]

get with the program

[agile geode]

obviously depending on what your team needs more

[oblique jackal]

Is that boss dmg or overall?

[uncut echo]

Seli slammin'

[brazen zodiac]

looking at my add damage for deatha when i was platforms

https://tenor.com/view/skill-issue-skill-tissue-shitpost-gif-24136076

sin platforms

[unreal coyote]

XD

imagine doing platforms as sin

[marble hemlock]

If your raid struggles with red side first intermission, go sub and you can actually help with that. If not, ask yourself if you're gonna struggle with shield damage (unlikely since the nerf). Those are the 2 main things each of the specs does "best".

[unreal coyote]

i would concede that sub is the spec to play for ras

[marble hemlock]

All things considered, Subs value is in intermission add damage, whereas Assa is better in P2, P3 and on the big adds in 2nd intermission

[agile geode]

thanks for the answer

❤️

[unreal coyote]

but the actual clown had to say "boss dmg is cope"

[marble hemlock]

So if you're assigned to blue side, which is the side that doesn't need a lot of burst for adds, assa is probably the better play

Since you will do a lot more damage to the big adds in 2nd intermission, and more boss damage in P2 and P3

[tired night]

Does the poison proc from the brackenhide trinket scale with our mastery?

[spice spire]

99% chance no

[nocturne current]

Items don't scale with stats, otherwise it would create a stat loop.

[marble hemlock]

what the flying fuck is a "stat loop"

[nocturne current]

What do you think, you're smart enough

[marble hemlock]

im asking because i have no earthly idea

[nocturne current]

The same way you can't reference a formula in excel.

It makes a mathematical loop

[marble hemlock]

how is a dps proc gonna create a loop?

[marble hemlock]

our damage amps like our mastery, shiv etc. are working based off of whitelists, meaning that theres a list of skills that are affected by it. items or other procs that arent caused by rogue skills arent on that list.

[nocturne current]

Because of how he game is programmed towards items isn't the same way it's programmed towards spells, even if the item itself casts a spell via yourself

[marble hemlock]

i still have no idea what youre talking about. the answer is "white lists" not some code issue or a "stat loop"

[nocturne current]

It's a reference loop.

You don't want to alter the source of what you're referencing already from.

[marble hemlock]

thats literally not how this works. weve had items working with class buffs in the past, i.e. symbols or dance damage amps used to work with moonglaives and other trinkets in legion. it didnt cause a "loop" that broke the game or anything. it just did more damage.

[nocturne current]

And there's a reason why you don't anymore, lol

[royal lantern]

holy priest mastery works with every single healing trinket

[marble hemlock]

so you saying ghostly strike isnt a global damage amp anymore?

[royal lantern]

there is no "just doesnt work lol"

[marble hemlock]

oh wait, it is

theres plenty of global amps left in the game

dont armchair dev please

[low girder]

last i heard sub's magic/shadow damage talents will still buff items

as well

[marble hemlock]

someone simply went into the whitelists and made sure theyre at least somewhat consistent

[viscid spear]

https://tenor.com/view/mage-mage-supremacy-hannah-girl-wow-gif-23990062

[frigid pilot]

my friend asking who is that?

[spice spire]

hannaowo

Amazed entire server doesn’t know at this point

[gusty mirage]

????????????

[spice spire]

?????

[gusty mirage]

Why do you know that

What the fuck

[spice spire]

Because OT has phases where they use pics nonstop

And that question has been asked like

600000000000000000 times

[low girder]

also doesn't look like much of a leap

[frigid pilot]

where we supposed to know her from lol

[spice spire]

Idk man

I just know the answers

[frigid pilot]

is this a zoomer tiktok thing

i bet it is

[spice spire]

Probably

[frigid pilot]

[gusty mirage]

It almost always is

[frigid pilot]

brainrot apps

[nocturne current]

Priest mastery affects what trinket lol? I guarantee you the trinket doesn't change value if you have 1 or 999. At most your mastery is the one getting value from the trinket not vice-versa.

[marble hemlock]

why dont you?

thats the question

even i know and i dont give a shit about this social media thing

[uncut echo]

Seli admitting to knowing E girls

[marble hemlock]

can you just like, stop talking nonsense? to this day, global amps exist. we've had stuff like deeper daggers affecting shadow damage from non-rogue sources in SL. ghostly strike is still a global amp. you're just wrong on your idea of how coding works in this game. just drop it.

the answer is: there's whitelists. not all skills are whitelisted. not all skills have whitelists (those often turn out to be global amps instead). you can reference spell data to find out which is which.

[gusty mirage]

Idk man, I’m a fucking loser ig

[spice spire]

They’re iladies sistren

[frigid pilot]

oxi has every right to know how quake knows these egirls names, favorite color and fav starbucks drink

[uncut echo]

No doom, it's okay not to know all the e girls

[frigid pilot]

[gusty mirage]

Idk any egirls

I spend all my internet time with you apes

[uncut echo]

[distant lava]

he knows cause a friend asked @gusty mirage

[spice spire]

I’m colorblind and hate Starbucks

[frigid pilot]

why egirls do that weird orange makeup on tip of nose thing

[gusty mirage]

Closest thing I have to an egirl in my life is @marble hemlock

[spice spire]

That’s true

[uncut echo]

I'm an advocate for the logic of this game to be more open and accessible.

If deeper daggers is written that it amps shadow damage for 8 seconds, all sources should be amped. No black or white list.

[gusty mirage]

Ayo don’t hate on the bux

[distant lava]

why have an egirl when you can have stat loops

[gusty mirage]

Veranda blonde roast is elite

[marble hemlock]

thats a tuning nightmare

[spice spire]

Their coffee has gone downhill

Even blonde is

[marble hemlock]

we've had it in legion. its not good.

[spice spire]

Getting worse

[uncut echo]

If envenom is affected by mastery and not zoldyck

[gusty mirage]

Nah fam. Covid done fucked you up

[nocturne current]

Lol.

[marble hemlock]

its better to design trinkets and procs and have them all work the same for each class

[spice spire]

Bout to fuck you up

And that’s on god

[frigid pilot]

[marble hemlock]

but yeah, rogue has alwayss had some major whitelisting issues, especially in SL

[gusty mirage]

You’re just mad I’m sipping my veranda blonde roast rn

[frigid pilot]

sin rogue fight behind the school dumpster

[spice spire]

I’m mad because it’s Val and not you :/

[uncut echo]

Sorry, I was referring to in class specifics. Trinkets should not work on class amps, like whetstone on c smash and find weakness

[gusty mirage]

Also your taste changes as you age

[marble hemlock]

realz spent a fair amount of time in alpha/beta to clean them up, but wording and tagging in tooltips is still far too obscure to really get the whole picture without having to consult third party information

[low girder]

it does

[nocturne current]

Ghostly Strike is the one amping the global value of everything, the trinket doesn't scale or is even affected by item/spell/whatever, mastery clearly says "your" poisons, so I don't even know why I am having this conversation.

[gusty mirage]

Deeper daggers was changed in SL to be white listed

Why revert it

[low girder]

upkeep iirc

[spice spire]

Daggers gone

[uncut echo]

It isnt gone

It's in sub tree

[spice spire]

Sylvanas dagger gone

[low girder]

at least from what i remember push saying

[gusty mirage]

Bruh they nerfed it s4 tf you mean daggers gone

[uncut echo]

Oh

Mb

[low girder]

they didn't want to go in and re flag a new thing every time

[distant lava]

same thing as gone really, my rogue is locked to outlaw

[low girder]

so they said fuck it

[gusty mirage]

We had it for half of season 4

That’s 2.5 tiers of sylv daggers

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

They changed it because of the pvp trinket

Not because of the sylv daggers

Idiot

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

The trinket did cosmic damage and dd buffed it

[uncut echo]

Cosmic damage

Is that shadow and arcane?

[spice spire]

Because they totally haven’t partitioned pvp/pve effects before

[low girder]

i think

[uncut echo]

[gusty mirage]

Because that’s how that’d work

A personal damage amp to a type of damage

Partition it’s effects based on content

[low girder]

nvm kek

[marble hemlock]

this is not how the game works.

every spell or talent or passive has mods, some of them modify specific damage types, like deeper daggers applying an aura modifier to shadow damage.

others, like ghostly strike, apply a mod that makes them take more damage from the initial caster (you). and

others, like assa mastery, have an extensive whitelist of like 30+ spells they affect with their aura modifier.

theres no consistency there. but, most importantly, theres no "stat loop" or "reference loop", whatever the fuck that even means.

[vestal wren]

find weakness is another one that is not exclusive to rogue abilities that all 3 specs have access to

[shrewd night]

[marble hemlock]

i dont know why youre having this conversation either, because youre arguing a point that is straightup false.

[nocturne current]

It's not consistency or not. The source of the scale isn't the trinket. They asked if mastery increase the scaling of the trinket and the answer is no - items don't scale.

Whatever the fuck you amp, it's the source of the amp, not the item. Item's scale with iLvl, and that's it.

[marble hemlock]

this is too stupid for me

[shrewd night]

Oh sweet summer child.

[scarlet orbit]

their are trinkets that scale with versa witch even have that in the tooltip

[marble hemlock]

this is some "ACKSHUALLY" levels of semantics of "trinkets dont scale" when versa, crit and a variety of other mods affect them

no satela

in his mind

[low girder]

some do that and it's not even in tooltip

whetstone for example

[marble hemlock]

trinkets dont scale with versa. versa scales the trinket

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-ackchyually-actually-gif-11156171

[shrewd night]

[scarlet orbit]

for example

[shrewd night]

We have trinket. Now versa is more important.
Nono, your trinket just does more damage.
NO. VERSA MORE IMPORTANT .

[gaunt pike]

hey guys quick question at single target sims i see we use haste enchants and crit-haste gems why not mastery?

[shrewd night]

Depends on your gear.

[vestal wren]

^ the answer is "sim it"

if its in your personal sim, it is likely that it hides a lot of combinations

[marble hemlock]

his point is that items dont have a list of tags of which skills they are affected by, other skills that scale modifiers will potentially affect items. which is technically correct, but its an incredibly obtuse way of explaining the system

[vestal wren]

because enchant and gem sims are always fairly close in value

[royal lantern]

do you even know what the hpriest mastery does

[shrewd night]

No no tryan

[marble hemlock]

so i finally understood his point but

thats not the way to explain it to someone new

[shrewd night]

The mastery doesn't affect the tooltip of the trinket. Therefore it doesn't scale.

[royal lantern]

i mean, hpriest mastery is not even a % increase

[shrewd night]

IT DOESNT AFFECT. THE TOOLTIP.

NO SCALING.

[royal lantern]

its litearlly a HoT based on your mastery % that triggers when you heal works with all trinkets that apply a flat heal

i mean sorry

no scaling=no work

[shrewd night]

Good lad

[marble hemlock]

anyway, answer is: assa mastery uses whitelist. only rogue skills on that list. explanation done.

[shrewd night]

[royal lantern]

we need more offical whisp emotes on this server

[marble hemlock]

no

[spice spire]

That one is horrifying

[shrewd night]

Just sub to his channel dummy

[royal lantern]

way to many dead emotes man, the list needs a refresh

[shrewd night]

Which?

[spice spire]

[marble hemlock]

[uncut echo]

But my bottled flayedwing toxin coats my weapons in poisons

[spice spire]

I hate sl

[shrewd night]

I loved nathria

[marble hemlock]

ban shien

actually nvm

[uncut echo]

I almost finished my nathra mog

[marble hemlock]

i cant believe someone wiping 400 times on denathrius "loved" nathria

[shrewd night]

I was drunk

It's ok

[marble hemlock]

for 3 months?

[shrewd night]

[royal lantern]

he is playing wow

[uncut echo]

Their liver is in shambles

[royal lantern]

and wiped 400times on daddynathrius

[spice spire]

Swolenar

[royal lantern]

ofc he was 3month drunk

[shrewd night]

400?

Rookie numbers

[limber lion]

Wasn't it closer to something like 560

[royal lantern]

400x in p1 i mean ofc

[shrewd night]

It's 650 I think. If you check progstats we are the little nudge all the way to the right

[vestal wren]

650 pulls

[low girder]

Ask odo what his nzoth count was

[vestal wren]

[royal lantern]

i remember 1000 argus pulls

and no kill

that was my first real mythic tier btw

[uncut echo]

I got argus in 256 :)

[gray crest]

Yeah I got argus in 250 wtf

[uncut echo]

Argus was my only CE

[gray crest]

Also first mythic tier

[uncut echo]

But holy SHIT I remember that kill clean as day

[low girder]

Idr what Argus took because I did it 3 times

[spice spire]

@shrewd night

Took me a while to find that one

[limber lion]

Argus was my first CE as well

[marble hemlock]

[limber lion]

pog

[gray crest]

Could be worse, could be mythic KJ. I heard that was hard as fuck

[low girder]

Can confirm

[limber lion]

Argus still probably my favorite end boss that I've killed to date

[uncut echo]

1000%

God tier last phase

[limber lion]

Red Argus hits different

[gray crest]

Someone in my guild uploaded our prog kill, I still watch it sometimes

[uncut echo]

I think I still have system shock from the dopamine overdose of learning positioning

I need to find our first kill

[marble hemlock]

i have system shock cuz i bought it all those years ago

[royal lantern]

wdym, forcing most top alliance guild into horde because the fight was litearlly not possible for priests and warlocks unless they where goblin was PEAK hard fight desing

[marble hemlock]

and we still all have it as a pvp talent

[limber lion]

Unstable Arcanocrystal was the first item I got from the vendor

was pretty pog

[uncut echo]

BRO

[marble hemlock]

better than forcing everybody to be troll for jaina

[uncut echo]

I STILL HAVE MY 6X TITANFORGED 940 ILVL ARCANO

I WILL NEVER SELL IT

I got kicked from my guild

When I got it

[low girder]

I got a regular one and vendored it to trigger my guild

[uncut echo]

Off argus trinket gendor

My friend got amunthul's wisdom

[gray crest]

I legit was in all heroic gear that got titan forged to mythic ilvl, joined a mythic guild that was progging on mythic argus, and killed in that gear

[uncut echo]

But I won the battle that mattered

[low girder]

I only ever saw one of those

And it dropped in a sale

[gray crest]

So as you can see, I have a history of popping in at the end of the tier to kill the end boss, since it has happened 3 times now (if we kill Raz)

[gusty mirage]

boomer spec channel discussing 18 tiers ago

ironic

[marble hemlock]

[royal lantern]

atleast that got fixed in like 1 week, and the dmg was allready done, all good guilds where horde allready

the KJ thing is mindblowing, how did that went past testing at all, making a fight litearly impossible for 2 classes unless you play 1 specific race

[marble hemlock]

i mean it wasnt impossible

it just gave you a comeback mechanic

if you got knocked off

[low girder]

Meanwhile dhs cackling

[marble hemlock]

with how awful that fight was in general, it was a nice skill to have

[low girder]

Also didn't they just make raz which was basically impossible for a priest without an evoker to carry them

Until nerfs

Not that surprising

[royal lantern]

it still is, they didnt change anything about the winds lol

need 1 evoker for every priest

[low girder]

Thought they did a while ago

[royal lantern]

only way to change that, would be removing all winds except 1 lol

priest has nothing except warlock gate

[marble hemlock]

they can run

you live just running

for like

first 3 or even 4 winds now

[royal lantern]

did they reduce the knockback?

[marble hemlock]

twice, yes.

although first one was barely noticeable

[royal lantern]

missed that one then

my bad

[limber lion]

Argus S-tier
G'huun dogshit tier (stupid boss with stupid mechanics and ugly landscape)
Jaina A-tier (fun boss, very thematical, too much running and freeze mechanic aids)
Azshara C-tier (tiny room with dumb mechanics only solvable with weak auras)
N'zoth B-tier (pretty thematical and fun fight, pumping Psychus was dank)

Sire A-tier (p1 bad, otherwise great)
Sylvanas C-tier (very cool, probably the coolest setting and landscape - too bad the fight is FUCKING BORING and long as shit. P1 and p2 dogshit)
Jailer B-tier (not very exciting, pretty simple boss all in all. very scripted.)

Raszageth B-tier (p1 can suck my nuts, otherwise kinda aight. wings too large, also personally hate fighting MASSIVE FUCKING dragons, humanoids are so much better. Broodkeeper followed by p1 raszageth killed the tier for me ngl)

Yeh Argus still best boss

[marble hemlock]

nope

you forgot a boss

[limber lion]

I only take something before Argus as an acceptable answer

[marble hemlock]

who was better

😦

[limber lion]

Crucible of Storms?

[low girder]

Jaina spell queueing takes it to a c instantly

[limber lion]

[marble hemlock]

[low girder]

For me

[marble hemlock]

uunat best boss

[limber lion]

Didn't do uu'nat

so couldn't say

[marble hemlock]

council and uunat both were better bosses

than any of the final bosses of the last 6 tiers

[uncut echo]

That whole raid is my aesthetic to a T

[limber lion]

I just heard it was dogshit and way too difficult

[low girder]

Uunat was cool it was just hard as fuck

[uncut echo]

So sad I never fought it current

[marble hemlock]

idk, i loved it

[royal lantern]

stop pretending that bosses with those name existed

they didnt

[limber lion]

honestly was edging a b myself

[royal lantern]

its all in your head seli

[marble hemlock]

few people progged it when it was current though

[devout drift]

pre-nerfed KJ was 100% impossible

[royal lantern]

crucible was not real

[marble hemlock]

people just called it a "meme tier"

[low girder]

Tell that to my 0.8% ptsd

[marble hemlock]

and then it had the hardest boss in wow history

[spice spire]

Skill issue tbh

[limber lion]

hardest, actually still killable boss*

[marble hemlock]

ye

i dont even remember

[gray crest]

Didn't most of the rwf people just skip that tier

[marble hemlock]

if they nerfed anything mid prog

no?

[gusty mirage]

I mean rasz was similar

[limber lion]

no most killed it

[gusty mirage]

rip pallies and priests on winds

[low girder]

It was, when we went back when we realized we didn't have the gear for m ashvane we one shot it

[limber lion]

they didn't do omega mega prep for it like other tiers

but they def killed it

[marble hemlock]

it was the first tier in a long time that method didnt win

[low girder]

That was

Deflating

[spice spire]

[limber lion]

Pieces took it super seriously because they knew they had a chance to slam

and that they did

Method left in the dust

[marble hemlock]

"slam"

[royal lantern]

atleast for raz you can work against it by having the NEW SHINY CLASS THAT CAN PREVENT THE MECHANIC FOR A TEAMMATE in your team

kj was litearlly "fuck you alliance, go horde now"

[marble hemlock]

731 attempt slam

[low girder]

Ele sham diff

[gusty mirage]

yeah unless you didn't have a geared evoker

then it was like "fuck you priests, go void elf"

[limber lion]

Hey perseverance pays off

:-D

[gusty mirage]

I'm just a fan of them designing fights around class utility

[royal lantern]

a fight needing a evoker is less shity designed than a fight needing you to do a faction and a race change imo oxi

[marble hemlock]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDFJnxz8jn0

nice comp

[low girder]

Their last attempt before they gave up and added crossfaction guilds

[gusty mirage]

I mean I disagree, if your healers don't want to play an evoker

they'd have to boost one

and then the entire guild has to gear it

it's literally the same shit

[royal lantern]

man oxi, it litearlly was the deathblow to alliance raiding

[gusty mirage]

no alliance raiding was dead well before KJ homie

[royal lantern]

like bruh, ToT was the first wave, KJ was the kick in the kidney

nothing left after KJ

[marble hemlock]

but yeah crucible was nice cuz it was just an added tier

there was no splitraiding or anything

everybody went in with ideal chars

[royal lantern]

world first guilds in shambles

[marble hemlock]

was a very level playing field

[gusty mirage]

increases in designs around class utility should make you upset

because your utility is a 3% DR poison no one notices

[royal lantern]

it does, trust me

im so dissapointed in blizzard now also starting to make spec based utility

[gusty mirage]

I don't even run it on my side for rasz

[marble hemlock]

still think its a travesty assa doesnt get both numbing and atrophic

[gusty mirage]

and no one's noticed

[royal lantern]

mandatory enh shaman spot, oh, prot paladin is weak this tier? mandatory ret paladin spot with the mandatory holy paladin spot

🙂

2mandatory paladins now btw

[gusty mirage]

mandatory DH spot

mandatory warlock spot

mandatory mage spot

mandatory monk spot

[marble hemlock]

yeah but

[gusty mirage]

fights where you need to bunch a shit ton of adds?

mandatory DK spot

[royal lantern]

you forgot warrior

[spice spire]

mandatory enhancement shaman

[gusty mirage]

mandatory warrior spot

[marble hemlock]

restless crew gone cuz we didnt want spec-based utility

[gusty mirage]

[royal lantern]

thats good

cus fuck outlaw

[gusty mirage]

restless wasn't ever going to stay

and you know it

lol

[marble hemlock]

ofc not

but i like how

priorities change all the time, which is good imo

but then

[shrewd night]

"Hey, Tryan, you need to use less finishers. You are unsyncing my trinket and tyrant."

[marble hemlock]

they dont re-evaluate old ideas

[gusty mirage]

let's ask our resident enhancement shaman

@shrewd night

🙂

[royal lantern]

litearlly only a handfull of outlaw players in this world that are not absolute braindead apes that should not handle a pc

[regal sable]

what the fuck is up with iron wire? a 6 second silence??? not even on gcd, no cast time, just baked into your main damage ability. seriously, rogue balancing is just ridiculous. Not only that but it works in AOE too? you know locks have to actually cast shadowfury for a 2 second stop? you get literally triple that for free

[shrewd night]

Dont you have any caselaw to check up on?

[spice spire]

what the fuck is up with iron wire? a 6 second silence??? not even on gcd, no cast time, just baked into your main damage ability. seriously, rogue balancing is just ridiculous. Not only that but it works in AOE too? you know locks have to actually cast shadowfury for a 2 second stop? you get literally triple that for free

[gusty mirage]

https://imgur.com/ZtgroTX

[low girder]

I need more finishers so I can sync this combust with rune

[royal lantern]

what the fuck is up with iron wire? a 6 second silence??? not even on gcd, no cast time, just baked into your main damage ability. seriously, rogue balancing is just ridiculous. Not only that but it works in AOE too? you know locks have to actually cast shadowfury for a 2 second stop? you get literally triple that for free

[gusty mirage]

no

my hearing is at 1:30

[gray crest]

Combust casts rune already

[gusty mirage]

why would I need case law for that

[low girder]

Oh right

[royal lantern]

you mean like, how they implemented target caps for some reason, but then didnt change the actual aoe dmg that happens, causing firemages to be the best class from 2 targets to 20targets?

or how they balance some specs with "you need to decide bettwen ST or AoE, cant do both" and other specs always just do both, and just decide bettwen 5%more ST and 30%more aoe?

[regal sable]

i hope they nerf sinister strike

by 3 flat dmg

[royal lantern]

there will be no outrage

they all play sub now

outlaw is D E A D afterall

the F L O W is gone

[regal sable]

its more so theres a "rogue" part of the patch notes and ppl get excited

[low girder]

They'll be back for the tier set dw

[royal lantern]

just do a random pvp nerf for that lol

and act as if pvp is a part of the game that matters in some form

[regal sable]

dam u really do be a hater

[royal lantern]

[regal sable]

i hope u get into a very boring dinner party with margret and karen aged 52 and 56 respectively

and the meatloaf is dry

[royal lantern]

why would i go to a dinner party

and expect it to not be boring

nobody under 60 does something like that lmao

[subtle tundra]

wat

[regal sable]

that is why i am wishing it upon u

it does not happen naturally

but if u ever end up in that situation

[subtle tundra]

dinner party with friends sounds fun af

[regal sable]

u know exactly why

[subtle tundra]

ok going into keystone as assa

lets go

[copper hazel]

sounds expensive, cant recommend

[royal lantern]

varas redemption arc?

[frigid pilot]

First boss drops dagger

[unreal bear]

damn he got that Mythic Mythic

[gusty mirage]

ANOTHER HASTE VERS DAGGER

WOWIE

[subtle tundra]

bruv what is assa in m+

0 st spec

[gusty mirage]

pepela

[subtle tundra]

did 60k on last boss cos

the other 2 dps 79 and 82

?????

[vestal wren]

best stat combo

vers is something assassinaiton hates

[gusty mirage]

insane itemization

[vestal wren]

and haste is somehting outlaw and subtlety hates

[gusty mirage]

quite literally

the worst stat combo

for all 3 specs

[vestal wren]

so it falls perfect in the realm of "everyone dislikes it equally"

[gusty mirage]

like if it was vers mastery

I'd be like alright its cool

whatever

but what the fuck man

there's no shot someone at blizzard thinks we want a haste vers dagger

you could argue pvpers

but like

[subtle tundra]

why does assa do so low st

[gusty mirage]

pvp gear scales to max ilvl in arena

[gusty mirage]

because the spec fucking sucks bro

[copper hazel]

who chooses the stat combos, like, do they even look at the stat distributions for each spec?

[subtle tundra]

back to sub

lets go

[spice spire]

They hated him because he told the truth

[subtle tundra]

idk i cant play assa in this state

[gusty mirage]

you do mediocre aoe

and okay ST

very cool spot for the spec to be in

you feel absolutely worthless

and even if we specced into full ST

[subtle tundra]

i dont even feel like its okay st

[gusty mirage]

we don't do top tier ST to justify the loss

[subtle tundra]

that 60k was with some cos buffs

and warrior shout

i doubt i played badly

[gusty mirage]

were you playing ttk or amp poison

[subtle tundra]

amp

ofc

wtf

[gusty mirage]

yeah I got nothin man

spec's just very underwhelming

in all aspects of the game righ tnow

[subtle tundra]

its fine

we got nerfed on hc logs

and we're good on hc rn

so uh

means we are good

[gusty mirage]

honestly the worst nerf was putting KB on a choice node with dtb

and it wasn't even a numbers nerf

[stiff geode]

Of all 3 specs where would yall put them on a scale of 1 to 10 for rotation complexity?

If anyone here is familiar with all 3 that is.

[gusty mirage]

that's a very subjective topic

assassination is at its core the same shit it was 10 years ago

but with like

6 new buttons

[stiff geode]

Yeah I know it is, can be hard.

[gusty mirage]

sub rotationally, especially in aoe, is very straight forward

but performing well requires a good grasp of everything

there's a bunch of little things you can do to maximize dps and sub's rotation is easier to brick

which destroys your damage

and I have legitimately no clue how outlaw plays rn

haven't touched it since SL

[vestal wren]

complexity does not mean difficultly

outlaw requires a lot of split second decisions

what can be very difficult

[stiff geode]

Bricking sounds no good at all. I was thinking about trying out another spec at some point but that requires a lot of time and effort xD

[gusty mirage]

yeah I mean if you just follow the core concepts of sub

you'll be alright

it's in a pretty good spot right now

quite fun to play too

[stiff geode]

🤔 Yeah I've heard outlaw was the most difficult

[sly bloom]

I can play both outlaw and sub pretty well

But I suck at sin

Lmao

[gusty mirage]

it's because you fall asleep

[sly bloom]

Like do I just spam envenom or do you need to pool energy more

Idk

[gusty mirage]

you legit just press everything on CD

nothing matters anymore

[sly bloom]

Spec just doesn't register with my boomer brain

[gusty mirage]

hold exsang & puzzlebox for the 4minute deathmark

and then slam everything on cd again

for another 2 minutes until deathmark and vanish are off cd

rinse and repeat until you're fully asleep or the boss is dead

whichever happens first

[stiff geode]

I only pool if I'm low energy and see a bleed needs refreshed soon

[gusty mirage]

yeah assassination is at 54apm right now

you rarely have to pool anything anymore

just overflowing with energy

compared to the past

[vestal wren]

i feel like this is the case for all 3

[stiff geode]

Packed with energy exile, packed! With energy

[vestal wren]

outlaw is the only spec that rly likes the high apm

[sly bloom]

I haven't really played sin since early bfa

When you ran triple shrouded suffocation

[gusty mirage]

ya and it feels like shit tbh

[sly bloom]

And pumped

[gusty mirage]

every single patch we get further and further away from what sub and assassination used to be

[vestal wren]

i think the problem is that assassianiton just wasn't designed for high apm

subtlety i feel is okay

[gusty mirage]

ya thats the problem though

[vestal wren]

but the between dance phases feel meh

[gusty mirage]

it feels just "okay"

it's getting to a good spot again though

so that's good

whereas assassination is trying to be a higher apm version of the same spec from 10 years ago

[sly bloom]

Didn't exsang used to be a 45s cd

Now it's 3min

[gusty mirage]

yes

[sly bloom]

Cringe

[gusty mirage]

exsang at 45s

was like

more dps than our capstones

it's also an 80% speed up

instead of 100%

[sly bloom]

Yeah man idk

Blizz class balance p weird

[vestal wren]

exsang as capstone with higher impact a good or terrible idea

[gusty mirage]

performance wise

good

gameplay wise

awful

[thorny pond]

DTB higher up the tree, KB and Sang as capstones

[gusty mirage]

dtb in the trashcan

just throw it away

throw exsang in the garbage too

[thorny pond]

Sure, but KB with DTB would be fun before they nerf that interaction

[gusty mirage]

not like dtb would change how you play kingsbane in any way

it'll just make the number higher

[thorny pond]

That's all I want man, big numbers

[gusty mirage]

may I introduce you to our friend sub rogue?

[vestal wren]

its funny oxi

[storm onyx]

Then they don’t actually need to work together, just tuned well

If ever

…

[vestal wren]

because from what i gather most of the new talents don't rly appeal

[gusty mirage]

deathmark is cool

[vestal wren]

whisp did talk earlier about removing DM

[gusty mirage]

IC is fineish

but doesn't do anything at all

[vestal wren]

you want to get rid of DTB

[gusty mirage]

except save you a few globals of ramp

ya dtb is miserable to play

[storm onyx]

Why?

[gusty mirage]

because it doesn't do anything

at all

it just lets you apply an extra poison of each type

[thorny pond]

If the 2nd poison had some extra interaction like Cev said, that'd be fun

[storm onyx]

Not everything needs to be an “active” talent

[thorny pond]

but yea, Oxi you are 100% correct

[storm belfry]

To get vendetta back or?

[vestal wren]

not sure

i think the idea would be to introduce something more exciting

[storm belfry]

I see

[thorny pond]

If our big CD is ST only, then there needs to be talents to augment it

[vestal wren]

i personally don't play sin enough to have a hard opinion

DM seems to me like it does fairly well

[storm belfry]

I have been dusting off outlaw

[gusty mirage]

it's okay, apparently neither does anyone at blizzard either

[vestal wren]

DTB for me is just boring, main problem might be that it locks away so many other talent choices

[silk bane]

i think most people atleast enjoyed KB, unfortunately it was way too weak on its own and what made it strong was the nodes prior to it. but if it was a strong capstone that matched DTB they'd probably play it over that snoozefest

[storm belfry]

I know ppl hate it but I loved sepsis

[storm onyx]

If there were better interaction along the tree, it would not have felt dry, dtb isnt the issue

[silk bane]

like I remember puzzle box + pi on all my KB's and got like a rank 2-3 sin parse on terros at the time. it felt amazing. then we went dtb, kb died, no more pi, no more happiness for me.

[vestal wren]

haha, i did like the old KB position tho. was quite nice to have 2 competing talent builds that had different strenghs

[storm onyx]

Tbf, I like that its not a spam fest build

[storm onyx]

Making KB /Dtb choice was a bad move considering the results yea.

[vestal wren]

it was obviouse to me when i saw the change

[storm onyx]

AP turned out to be a dud

[vestal wren]

and i am not a sin main

[storm onyx]

It was a hasty attempt to fix aoe with a bad path in the end

[vestal wren]

maybe the direction is not too bad

just needs more iteration

[storm onyx]

We may hope

[gusty mirage]

they wanted us to be able to take dtb and IC in keys

but they were worried that KB+DTB would be too strong

[storm onyx]

Maybe something is cooking */sigh

[gusty mirage]

so they slapped AP where KB was

yeah I mean AP doesn't suck

AP's location is what sucks

like that is not a capstone

at all

in any scenario ever

[silk bane]

i dont understand why AP is assumed to be a capstone level of power and why its capped at 5 targets. huh

[vestal wren]

just wait for the AP buffs

[storm onyx]

I guessed more tweaks would come after it went live, like a KB tune, Ap target, some interaction, it just stopped there

[vestal wren]

[gusty mirage]

it'll be right there with the nighstalker fix

[dusky granite]

Yeah, I thought Tiny Toxic Blade should just get AP added since it currently makes no sense with its “high tier” position (and is never going to be taken) in the tree, and give another capstone.

[gusty mirage]

blizzard too busy buffing BM hunter

sorry

[storm onyx]

Funny is, if they wanted to keep the build versatility, they would tune KB as they moved it; they obviously knew it will lose dmg with the change. Thats just meh

Just don’t understand why they didn’t

[uncut echo]

Uncap ic uncap ap

Class fixed

:)

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/morgan-freeman-you-smoke-crack-dont-you-scold-lean-on-me-push-gif-11787586

[uncut echo]

Let me cook

[woeful meteor]

uncap scent of blood while at it

[storm onyx]

Wonder how new tier set will affect cleave 2-4 targets, guess it will bump rupture as it should be, if it stays that is. I would be happy if we cleave as used to

[gray crest]

That's how rextroy achieves a 1m agility one shot video

[gloomy knoll]

Every time I see ap I get ptsd flashbacks from legion

[strange python]

Sin cleave is currently so mediocre that the tier set would have to be the strongest tier set in the games history to make our cleave competitive.

[thorny pond]

PTSD? More like golden days

[gloomy knoll]

You liked agonizing

Calling the fbi real quick don’t move

[thorny pond]

Is it nostalgia? Maybe. I also liked my DPS parses being reliant on giga PB procs too

[subtle tundra]

🤨

you are sick

[thorny pond]

Yea

[spice spire]

Mister beach is a player of all time

He’s my goat

[thorny pond]

I have played a long time. But I still suck

And I am like the only person who liked Legion AP

[low palm]

Hey guys, my guild is currently working in Dathea M with the 1platform strat so I'm trying to squeeze as much DPS as possible ST. However after our first night of tries I was expecting a little bit more.

If anyone has the time, could you take a look at the logs and see if there is anything that catches your eye? I am thinking for example saving shiv for thistle tea, try not to overlap elaborate planning or envenom buffs if it can be avoided...

here are the full logs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Qm8n6kvMY4bN3TCj#boss=2635&difficulty=5&wipes=1&type=damage-done&source=1
and our best try https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Qm8n6kvMY4bN3TCj#type=damage-done&source=1&fight=31

Also since the fight time is 5min max, I am not saving vanish+dm, but using it on cd so it's back by 4min.

Any other suggestions? I am running out of ideas

[thorny pond]

!neck

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.

[thorny pond]

Check your neck and also:

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[thorny pond]

!logs

[prisma monolith]

Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage

Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/

[thorny pond]

That one

[low palm]

ah thank you, didn't know that wowanal had sin support

so the goal with gems + lariat is to get as many crit procs as possible?

[signal badger]

I loved legion ap, but I also like grindy games so I’m bias

[unreal bear]

trade chat has conditioned me to read it as "wow anal-izer"

[strange python]

Does !logs not work for threads anymore?

[spice spire]

Threads in sin are manual

[strange python]

Rip

[spice spire]

Square Log Review

[fathom hound]

Why does fan of knives suck

[rotund wagon]

Because things with a once in a lifetime chance of happening like pressing it with 15 targets around and getting 2cp happen multiple times in a dungeon

Wow % chances of happening aren’t real

[fathom hound]

WHy is Shuriken Storm just better in everyway

[vestal wren]

is it this hour again

when we try to make assassination more like subtlety?

[fathom hound]

Yes

[gaunt moat]

Give us replicating shadows 🥸

[vague widget]

I just think for a spec named assassination we are particularly awful at killing a single target.

[wary ice]

What if we made it so envenom did more damage per target hit by fok

Could call it like dagger combo or something

[fathom hound]

Too much priority dmg

[wary ice]

😦

[vague widget]

I'm surprised PB doesn't have any interactions based on poisons used. Bad take perhaps?

[eager sorrel]

Give me rolling CT stacks...

[fathom hound]

"Fan of knives has a chance to make your next CT cast with 7 CP and instantly deal any remaining CT bleed damage"

Could be fun

[eager sorrel]

% would have to be low or it's just super OP

[fathom hound]

CT doesnt do that much dmg as is does it?

[violet jackal]

make crimson tempest stack up to 3 times

[fathom hound]

Sin doesnt need more ramp

[eager sorrel]

It's more damage base then envenom

[vestal wren]

you have replicating shadows at home:

[eager sorrel]

Just stacking CT makes it ST, and our best bleed by a mile

[fathom hound]

lmao

[violet jackal]

I see nothing wrong with that

[gaunt moat]

That's black powder at home 🥲

[violet jackal]

bring back crimson tempest in single target

[eager sorrel]

It is back lol

[fathom hound]

Yeah pretty sure we CT in st with new tier

But whispyr said it was cooking

[fossil garnet]

might need a buff for that to be the case

[eager sorrel]

30% more + 2% buff to all damage is a pretty big number already

[fathom hound]

huh envenom does 16.5k, CT does 11k + 14k over time

[fossil garnet]

Ye but envenom procs PB

which is the same dmg

on st

[fathom hound]

so 17k + a 50% chance to do 13k

[fossil garnet]

I just dont want that shit in ST

tbh

[storm belfry]

No

[fossil garnet]

the only time they changed our playstyle in the last 4 years (in somewhat of an interesting way) we got CT for st dps so couldnt be less interested in that cringe spell

[rotund wagon]

I mean why not though. Plenty of room for another finisher in st. Other classes are so great because they can aoe and ST at the same time. Why not have a st button do some aoe.

[fossil garnet]

just make something else cool

like dont bring backe the same garbage boring stuff as we always get

[rotund wagon]

You can have your st and aoe be separate or you can be good in more scenarios

[fathom hound]

Lets make exsang turn us into a blood demon and we shoot blood out of our eyes. Call us "Blood Hunters"

[rotund wagon]

I would rather be good in more scenarios

[fossil garnet]

I rather play something "new" than the same variation that has returned since tier was removed

its not like sin is already one of the least innovative specs, we also get the same modifier to our rotation every time they change it

its like they arent even trying lol

[fathom hound]

I jsut want all these usueless talents removed. Twist the knife, sepsis, doomblade, master assasssin, AP, all bad

[fossil garnet]

only problem with that would be an empty skeleton of a tree

since those are fillers

[fathom hound]

and systematic failure

[fossil garnet]

and we havent had anyhting else in history like we have everything we have always been except that there isnt any KB cdr

[rotund wagon]

Don’t get me wrong something new would be great. But with no word on anything I would rather petition for CT to be moved further to the front of the tree since that’s the minor change they seem to be doing for a lot of people. We have to spend the most budget to get to an aoe ability out of anyone

[fossil garnet]

I dont really mind that, I have a bigger problem with our capstones being hard locked since the move of KB

[rotund wagon]

And yeah it would add it to the st rotation if taken likely but there’s plenty room in the rotation we aren’t exactly pressed for globals

[fossil garnet]

Like DTB was the "easier" and more "casual" build

KB was the more "interesting/diff" build

[rotund wagon]

Yeah

[fossil garnet]

now we all need 1 braincell to apply all our poisons and press mutilate + envenom

[rotund wagon]

I would just like to have access to an aoe button without having to go all in on it. Because the specs that can do that are favored for more content for obvious reasons

[fossil garnet]

ye thats reasonable

[fathom hound]

Could be cool to have shiv spread KB to another target ot something

[fossil garnet]

nah

the problem is if they make us interesting

we become op

and then they prune

[fathom hound]

Im surprised assassination isnt more like Fire's mastery Ignite

[fossil garnet]

and we become nothing again

[fathom hound]

Where our bleed dmg "spills" over onto aoe targets

[fossil garnet]

if deathmark spread bleeds id be ok with that as a talent

[gaunt moat]

Most reasonable take since set was announced.

[fathom hound]

2 min aoe cd 🤮

[fossil garnet]

ye but if we could spec CT+DM spread

for raids

and then IC for dgs

[fathom hound]

Just make CT a 25 sec cd like glaive tempest and have it spread bleeds

[fossil garnet]

they just made sin rlly weird by moving KB

prob the dumbest decision

ive seen

they couldve put AP where TTB is and keep KB

[storm belfry]

I love this chat

[fathom hound]

They should have just not changed the tree

[signal badger]

That would make us way too strong

We will never get kb and dtb

[fossil garnet]

HUH

dtb?

[fathom hound]

Should re named to "doomer/copium assassination"

[fossil garnet]

wdym?

never mentioned dtb

[rotund wagon]

Well shadow had a very similar IC mechanic with shadow crash. And on ptr they changed its cd so they can actually have full uptime of their dots in aoe. Maybe something close isn’t an absurd dream someday

[fossil garnet]

we could already not play dtb and kb

so it wouldnt change anything

[signal badger]

If they kept kb where it was while also allowing us to grab two capstones it would have made us too strong, that is why they moved kb and made it a choice node

[fossil garnet]

but ok so you didnt understand or what?

xD

w/e

[storm belfry]

Yeah the more I read the more I understand what the mods meant

[spice spire]

[signal badger]

They made a change to the number of talents required to take dtb allowing us to grab it and another capstone.

[fossil garnet]

Yes ik

but if they DIDNT

we couldve had AP where TTB is

and KB where it was

[storm belfry]

[craggy oak]

also keeping KB there would meen it would keep zoldyck 3 point node hostage forever no?

[fossil garnet]

but thats good since the reason we are brought to raids is because of X and ST dps

like

enjoy having a reason

[craggy oak]

3 point nodes are bad

[fossil garnet]

I rather have a 3 pointer and be relevant

and interesting

[fresh scaffold]

!simguide

[prisma monolith]

Guide to Simming yourself: https://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-raidbots-sims-stat-weights

For more accurate results you should always sim yourself using Top Gear for gear you already have in your bags
or Droptimizer to see which content drops the biggest upgrade for you. Do not use Stat Weights sims to evaluate gear.

[craggy oak]

you can keep the same strength with it being a 2 point node

[gaunt moat]

Zoldyck's intresting?

[craggy oak]

whats going on

[fossil garnet]

we did something else than just doing normal st dps

[fathom hound]

Are we getting more talent points in 10.1?

[fossil garnet]

prob not

unless im missing critical information

[gaunt moat]

No unless they raise level cap. Which has never happened mid expansion.

But.. they can reduce cost of multi-point nodes

[fathom hound]

the two 3 point nodes could afford to be 2 point nodes

[gaunt moat]

Not sure what you mean or how's it relevent to zoldyck

[fossil garnet]

we were really good at X now why bring sin over arms?

[vestal wren]

no, we keep the same amount of points

[spice spire]

No we didn’t we did ST but it did more

[fathom hound]

are SOME classes getting more points?

[spice spire]

No

[fossil garnet]

how is X dps not a niche?

better X dps is nice to have as a 3min burst full ST spec in raids

[vestal wren]

no, every class in the spec has the same amount of points

[spice spire]

It matters if there’s an execute fight which there kind of wasn’t this tier

[vestal wren]

raz mabye early on

but by now, that isn't relevant anymore

[spice spire]

It didn’t phase specifically at execute range. You just kind of did the thing

And if you were there, you were there

[gaunt moat]

You said "intresting".
Half our talents are +x%.
I just don't see it as intresting.

And like @spice spire just said, the benefit was not exploitable.

[fossil garnet]

KB is interesting

DTB is not

idk

[signal badger]

It was interesting

[spice spire]

Interesting is subjective

But it’s just a button you press and it does damage

And you hold shiv for

That’s kind of it

[raven knoll]

its interesting in how it does its damage

[fossil garnet]

thank you

[fathom hound]

Thats like saying Breath of SIndragosa is jsut a button you push and it does dmg

[spice spire]

I mean it is

[verbal mantle]

[ember mural]

[spice spire]

It doesn’t effect the play pattern much at all

[fossil garnet]

every button is a button you push and it does dmg

[spice spire]

You’re still bleeding, envenoming and doing your thing

[fossil garnet]

its an interesting button in itself

[raven knoll]

but you are right its a button you press and it does damage in terms of interaction it is no different than envenom.

[gaunt moat]

i was talking about zoldycks. i thought that's what we were talking about

[raven knoll]

But I like the effect and the stacking

[spice spire]

I was initially as well

They moved to kb

[fossil garnet]

KB + zoldyck is more interesting than DTB

that was the initial argument

[vestal wren]

i don't think having passive talents is bad, as long as there are some good key talent points to choose between

[spice spire]

Which is a boomer tinted ability imo.
I didn’t play then so I don’t have a weird fixation on it

[vestal wren]

i think in general, we just need some more new higher impact choices on all 3 specs

[spice spire]

So I think kb is fine as a button. But nothing ground breaking or insanely interesting

Just another CD

I can agree with that

[fossil garnet]

idek anymore

xD

[spice spire]

I’m definitely not an AP fan, I’ll say that

[fossil garnet]

we all agree that its bland

[vestal wren]

would you want the old AP back?

[fathom hound]

I dont think you EVER take AP

[gaunt moat]

what if it was way up in the tree, replacing something like flying daggers

[spice spire]

Council

[raven knoll]

wdym old, there is an old version?

[vestal wren]

yes

[spice spire]

I’m just not a huge fan of a weird niche that has almost no application (one boss fight)

[raven knoll]

oof

[spice spire]

There are a lot of “filler talents” that I could live without

Bring back agonizing

[gaunt moat]

If it would replace flying daggers, i don't think it would be such a niche. it would be good on m+ too without taking away as much from ST

[spice spire]

It’s definitely way too weak currently as a capstone

[vestal wren]

ironically i think AP would not be terrible

in the tree as a single target oriented point

[gaunt moat]

we already have like 3 other talents that make bleed do 20% more damage fuu hah

[signal badger]

That might push us even deeper into dtb but it would be a nice talent

[vestal wren]

true

[signal badger]

It would work on things other than bleeds like envenoms and such so it would have value

[gaunt moat]

for sure. and that's also why it's disliked. it's grossly misplaced.
if it was in an upper row, i think it would be pretty favorable.

[fossil garnet]

KB spread on multiple targets couldve been cool

[dark token]

All the bleed dmg things don't scale well

[fossil garnet]

something that interacts with KB

[dark token]

We need a multiplier on a multiplier like ww monk's had in shadowlands

[fossil garnet]

legion PB?

[dark token]

How is that anything like what I said

[fossil garnet]

[gaunt moat]

I don't think KB needs to spread.

[dark token]

It's just a single instance dmg proc

Make IC work on everything rather than just rupture garrotes

Imagine 8t deathmark

[fossil garnet]

jk but you are cooking some unholy stuff and I like it

[raven knoll]

make IC a passive

[oak tangle]

yoooo 320% increased nature damage with new tier set

[fathom hound]

lmao

[raven knoll]

CT spam

lego

[oak sky]

You actually just want to play outlaw idk

[oak tangle]

IC works on all spells but at a heavily reduced duration

you'd then be able to use the tier set to funnel into prio

[dark token]

Why not change AP to say:
During shiv, your bleeds and poisons flurry to nearby targets for 75% dmg

[marble hemlock]

give it back please

[dark token]

Unironically fixes sin

Ic shiv gigablast

It's like echoing blades but bleeds

Call it echoing bleeds

[oak tangle]

ap just needs to be 8 targets and not in capstone location

[oak sky]

[raven knoll]

if it lowered the CD of shiv by like 50% it would be good too IMO

[marble hemlock]

neither AP nor IC should be capstones. they should come up 1-2 tiers earlier, with the subseqeuent talents further boosting its usefulness in certain niches

[fathom hound]

How do you guys feel about Scent of Blood?

[oak sky]

Uncap

[marble hemlock]

uncap scent or make it work with garrote

so you get 2 stacks per target

[raven knoll]

Tru doesnt feral have something like IC on like the second row?

[proven jasper]

feral got rip

[marble hemlock]

its more like ct+ic, but ye

[proven jasper]

or whatever

[oak sky]

Why not both

[marble hemlock]

cuz itd be too good

[oak sky]

Theyve had that forever

[fathom hound]

SoB to me feels like it only makes sense with IC, you dont really try to apply 8 ruptures without IC

[marble hemlock]

@rigid mango get a girlfriend

so you stop being bored

[rigid mango]

I have 2 kittens I don't need women

[fathom hound]

Should jsut bake SoB into IC as a capstone

[oak tangle]

garrote, rupture, envenom and start the tree fresh

[fathom hound]

Im reading feral tree, and it seems so much better than assassination wtf

[raven knoll]

dont do that

you will feel worse

[fathom hound]

THis is goated

[raven knoll]

I just said dont do that

[fathom hound]

WTF IS THIS

[raven knoll]

[winged veldt]

Lol! So after not wanting to see why the sky is falling….. I caved and holy fuck what is assa with the new tier lol

[limber lion]

Now read what Apex Predator's Calling does

And Sabertooth

[royal lantern]

and primal wrath

🙂

oh, and circle of life&death

meanwhile we have IC and exsang

[raven knoll]

Also dont read Shadow priest talents and the talent Shadow Crash

[royal lantern]

[royal lantern]

or psychic link

aka bladeflury, the dot version

[fathom hound]

WHAT THE SHIT BLIZZARD

[limber lion]

Look at Sabertooth

[royal lantern]

WDYM, we have exsang and IC

all good

just objectively worse versions of more or less all feral talents

[uncut echo]

I've been saying port half of these talents into sin

Since SL

Circle of life and death is a sin basic necessity

[gaunt moat]

Guys it's okay for Feral to do good AoE, since we're the ST spec, and feral doesn't have that much ST