assassination

[vestal wren]

oh

[gaunt moat]

where you cleave them together

[viscid spear]

Frost kills on M Kurog because it's constant 2-target

[uncut echo]

Frost is a turbo outlier here

[gaunt moat]

that's an exmaple of good cleave.

[uncut echo]

Anomalously propped up

[gaunt moat]

my point is sin has bad cleave

[uncut echo]

Good?

That was bis cleave

[vestal wren]

i mean subtlety is 10% below sin/outlaw so i basically just set it relative to that

[uncut echo]

Like, holy shit there'a nothing that compares cleave

[gaunt moat]

oh, i meant it's bad relative to everything

[thorn fjord]

OL Cleave can be really godly too

[vestal wren]

if sin/outla are bad in cleave

[uncut echo]

Ye outlaw goes a little brazy too

[vestal wren]

basically means subtlety is terrible

[uncut echo]

Sub is deadge

[gaunt moat]

Because i remember in legion, I had really good cleave

[viscid spear]

OL cleave is good on larger target groups like 5 or so
Frost Mage murders on 2T

[thorn fjord]

Remember when sin used to murder 2t cleave?

[gaunt moat]

(fyi, i consider cleave 2-3 targets. 4 tops)

[thorn fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/randy-g-pep-farm-gif-18424871

[vestal wren]

ngl

i always have a hard time comparing to other specs because i have no resource to look at

[viscid spear]

I miss stacking Shrouded Suffocations and Expedient 3s and watching shit melt

[gaunt moat]

and.. let's not forget...

poison bomb

[thorn fjord]

Legion PB was so based.

[vestal wren]

problem is

with 1 minute or 1 minute 30

how much impact is from early burst in the graph

[gaunt moat]

you think if it was cleave further down the fight, sin would do better?

cause i doubt that

[vestal wren]

i don't know

is basically what i say

[viscid spear]

[vestal wren]

i can easy compare rogue because i can look at simulations and have a good idea

for other classes, i don't have the same amount of information

[gaunt moat]

sin just doesn't have cleave tools. at all.
except shrouded suffocation.. kinda.

and AP is a meme

i would LOVE replicating shadows

[thorn fjord]

CT

😛

[vestal wren]

and if information like this exists i can't be sure it would be on similar bais

[viscid spear]

Ice Lance is like more than half your overall damage, and Icicles are literally passive to the point you don't even have to think about them

[vestal wren]

don't steal my relicating

[gaunt moat]

ugh... i hate you haha

[vestal wren]

[gaunt moat]

GIMME DAT

[viscid spear]

Technically Splitting Ice also has this effect, but no one runs either of those two talents.

[vestal wren]

but we have replicating at home:

[viscid spear]

||die gs die||

[gaunt moat]

yeah at small price of all our ST 🥲

[jade abyss]

Multilate deals damage to a additional target would be nice :x

[vestal wren]

just buff poison bomb

[gaunt moat]

it was quite strong at start of expansion. triggered like every 2nd envenom

[gusty mirage]

they already nerfed the proc chance

they aint buffing shit

too busy buffing BM hunter

[vestal wren]

nerfing proc chance

nerf it furtehr and buff damage

[gusty mirage]

can't fix nightstalker

[gaunt moat]

yo i'm the one who's supposed to complain about that, don't steal my light

[vestal wren]

lets go back to legion

[gusty mirage]

or change assassination

[vestal wren]

poison bomb

(i am joking, that rng was terrible)

[gusty mirage]

sorry can't hear you from my new main

https://tenor.com/view/wow-world-of-warcraft-hunter-feign-death-captain-grim-gif-25195025

[vestal wren]

you rerolled hunter?

[gusty mirage]

im going to

[echo cargo]

I’m still here for ridiculous legion PB

[gusty mirage]

why would I keep playing rogue?

our dev got kidnapped by someone

[echo cargo]

Better than being dead last in stats 😭

[gusty mirage]

our class is in an awfully mediocre state

and BM hunter is about to get ANOTHER buff

and now I don't even need the rasz bow!

[gaunt moat]

I might be wearing a tinfoil hat.
but i'm thinking Realz quit because of the RTO

[vestal wren]

rto?

[gaunt moat]

return to office

[gusty mirage]

I'm convinced microsoft kidnapped him for leverage in the merger

[vestal wren]

sony tries to dealy the ms deal as much as possible

[ebon notch]

Just grow balls and tag him already

Maybe he forgot about us

[gusty mirage]

ret getting a rework, warrior got a rework, feral and boomkin got reworks, meanwhile rogue and DH are

@ebon notch guy and push do it weekly

and 🦗

[vestal wren]

so blizz is still not imapcted by the MS aquistion

[gaunt moat]

@ebon notch you do it 🙂

[vestal wren]

is dh bad?

[gusty mirage]

DH same problem as rogue

solid in M+

kinda meh in raid

[ebon notch]

I'll get in trouble

[gaunt moat]

yeah DH ST is really meh

[ebon notch]

They're honestly A tier

Imo

[gusty mirage]

I mean that's cool

[ebon notch]

They really work well with this cleave heavy tier

[gusty mirage]

doesn't address the problems with the class

but okay

I guess outlaw and sub are perfectly fine right?

because it's a cleave heavy tier?

[thorn fjord]

No it wasn’t… I was an RNG god

[ebon notch]

I'm talking about DH

[gusty mirage]

I mean look at sub rogue logs

they're doing fine

[ebon notch]

Rogue has systemic problems

[thorn fjord]

I top dpsed every fight in Argus lol

[gusty mirage]

what makes you think DH doesn't have those same systemic problems?

[vestal wren]

wdym?

[ebon notch]

Idk they seem pretty chill

The talent tree tweaks they're getting address some issues also

[thorn fjord]

That’s because their brains don’t work so they don’t know any better

[gusty mirage]

and guess what

people rerolling rogue

and playing sub

"rogue seems pretty chill"

insane

[vestal wren]

to be fair DH brings the strongest raid buff, so them being similar to rogue in output would mean DH is in a good position

[thorn fjord]

M+ Andy’s @gusty mirage

[gusty mirage]

they're carried by their buff rn

[thorn fjord]

Every week a guildy posts dps ranks to troll me

Saying rogue is still OP

[gusty mirage]

we're carried by atrophic poison

[thorn fjord]

And I get triggered

[vestal wren]

i mean

[thorn fjord]

EVERY WEEK

[vestal wren]

looking at the overall

subtlety is rly good on raz and council

so will be high in overall

outlaw kind of similar

[thorn fjord]

Illusions Michael

[gusty mirage]

yeah DH seems pretty chill

[thorn fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/gob-gif-5372279

[gusty mirage]

cleave heavy raid tier

middle of the pack

marks about to get a buff btw

frost dk also getting a buff

[echo cargo]

Remember when they nerfed Sin 4x

[gusty mirage]

seems pretty chill to me

[echo cargo]

I remember

[gusty mirage]

they do outlaw rogue damage

[thorn fjord]

Know what’s chill? D3

[gusty mirage]

so yeah

[subtle kettle]

What’s wrong with havoc being dead middle of the pack while bringing the best raid buff?

[gusty mirage]

DH hard carried by chaos brand

nothing

but they've also been forgotten

literally nothing

[gaunt moat]

Only thing DH brings to raid is infecting everyone with marks

[gusty mirage]

what do they have in common with rogue?

same guy worked on both classes

so I'm convinced someone kidnapped him

[vestal wren]

it seems systematic

[gusty mirage]

because he's never been this MIA before

[thorn fjord]

Maybe he quit

[vestal wren]

like as much as we meme about it

[gusty mirage]

based

[vestal wren]

it seems like they have a fairly small dev team

[empty hinge]

[vestal wren]

that needs to cycle between specs

[gusty mirage]

they literally just bought a studio with 500 devs

wdym

[vestal wren]

well

[thorn fjord]

They’re all working on cod

[vestal wren]

devs that work on cosmetics or future content

[gusty mirage]

they bought them out to finish DF

[vestal wren]

not on classes

[jade abyss]

Cod > rogues

[vestal wren]

a big part of dev teams these days is art team

[thorn fjord]

Oh and workplace equality

[empty hinge]

You’re talking about realz right

[thorn fjord]

Yeah

[empty hinge]

Maybe he took a vacation or something

[vestal wren]

i just think its the usual pattern

[thorn fjord]

Last time he was in here he told us he had us

Then poof ghost

[vestal wren]

we always had devs involved for the beta period

[gaunt moat]

That's what I think.
There's been a lot of upset devs in blizzard lately because of company mandates.

[vestal wren]

and then seemingly no/little communication

[empty hinge]

And we don’t have a date for 10.1 yet

[thorn fjord]

Yeah they just cut wfh too

[vestal wren]

was like 2 xpacs like that

[gaunt moat]

wfh?

[vestal wren]

before DF

work from home

[thorn fjord]

Work from home

[gaunt moat]

ok, that's what i just said like 5 minutes ago

[gusty mirage]

I mean we still have 10.0.7 coming out

why would we have a release date for 10.1 already

[thorn fjord]

Didn’t see it 🤷‍♂️

[empty hinge]

To test stuff like new talents and new raid new tier sets

[devout prism]

if DF was made with most people being working from home, it's been better than most expacs where they've all been working in the office

[vestal wren]

not sure how "close" 10.0.7 is even

[gusty mirage]

they're literally reworking an entire class in 10.0.7

lmao

[empty hinge]

Ye but 10.0.7 doesn’t change a lot or does it I haven’t looked at anything yet

[gusty mirage]

it doesn't?

[empty hinge]

For .7 patch

[vestal wren]

to be fair, blizz reworking stuff in .7 seems good

[gaunt moat]

I talked with guild made yesterday
about why does hunter keep getting buffed
he thinks that it's fine, because this seasons is "done". so they don't care about balancing it anymore.
and next season hunters bow and set will not be relevant.

[gusty mirage]

it's reworking paladin

[thorn fjord]

Pali patch is .7

[gusty mirage]

how is that not changing a lot?

[vestal wren]

means they know the class had issues

[empty hinge]

Idk I haven’t checked it yet due to some issues

[gusty mirage]

I get to hear people complain about their one talent "not working like its supposed to"

and I laugh

people look at the rogue trees

and wonder why we have so many 3pters

[vestal wren]

its only assassination

tbh

completely on your side

3 pointers seem weird

[gusty mirage]

they changed the worst one to 2pt AND nerfed it

[brazen zodiac]

💃

[gusty mirage]

dashing is so mediocre

that they could've kept it the same at 2 ranks

and it wouldn't have mattered

[vestal wren]

probably

[empty hinge]

Mark my words 10.1 dfa and vendetta are coming back

[gusty mirage]

just a lot of mediocre talents in all 3 spec trees

vendetta is not coming back

[empty hinge]

[gaunt moat]

dfa for sin?

no thanks

[gusty mirage]

why would you want vendetta

[vestal wren]

unless somebody brings a rly good reason to change this opinion.
I still think we need more data to compare trees/classes/etc

[empty hinge]

Dfa for sub

[gusty mirage]

it's literally worse than deathmark in every single way

[vestal wren]

secret is dfa

kinda

[frigid pilot]

Damn sin talk is a lot for a spec that doesn’t exist on the last 2 bosses of the raid

[wary ice]

It was literally just to prevent dtb + kb being used together tbh

[gusty mirage]

deathmark duplicates 90% of our damage and people are still wanting vendetta back?

vendetta was fucking awful

[subtle tundra]

vendetta worst designed cd in the game

cant change my opinion

[vestal wren]

tbh both fights you mentioned are fine for assassinaiton

[subtle tundra]

yes shadowblades included

[vestal wren]

deathmark is good

i like it

[gusty mirage]

deathmark is insanely good

[wary ice]

Death mark owns

[violet jackal]

there over 100 that have killed broodkeeper and 60 that killed raszageth

[gusty mirage]

interesting design choice

wouldn't want assassination to do more than 100k ST eh?

that would be unheard of

[vestal wren]

wait why is it expert mode

secret apl?

[wary ice]

I assume ita cause both dtb and kb are used

[gusty mirage]

no, overrides for the buffs coming

[vestal wren]

oh

[spice spire]

Azor’s patreon

[vestal wren]

i just wanted to do the meme ye

[gusty mirage]

azor's patreon had their profile playing the bow

while the one they submitted didn't

WEIRD

@drifting cloud your guildie is a piece of shit

[uncut echo]

Kurog tn as sin

[spice spire]

Glhf

[uncut echo]

We hit 10%

[spice spire]

Slam boss

[rocky raven]

hello, i have question about puzzlebox. when should i use it? im struggling to time it correctly

[spice spire]

[uncut echo]

On opener?

Or after opener

I'll answer both

[rocky raven]

yeah, both

[uncut echo]

In the opener:

You use puzzlebox as you hit echoing reprimand

It has no global so you have nearly zero downtime

[uncut echo]

That has changed

[thorn fjord]

Can also use it after exsang before DM

[spice spire]

Use when comfy

[thorn fjord]

Yeah

[spice spire]

Outside of that, you want to line up based on timers

[thorn fjord]

My muscle memory is hard stuck to using it after ER

[frigid pilot]

almost as much rets as there are sin rogues on raz

[uncut echo]

Big same

[spice spire]

So if you’re 6+ you send on 3 with Exsang, send on 6 with every other cd.

If you’re under 6. You’ll line it up with your 4m deathmark

[gusty mirage]

well yeah, rasz intermission adds are a very big part of the fight

where assassination is actually worthless

[spice spire]

Think like 6:40ish. Because people naturally offset their dms as the time goes on

[thorn fjord]

Whispyr has been saying to hold ex to 4m now regardless

[rocky raven]

thank you for the info for puzzlebox, will try to use it after reprimand

[uncut echo]

I think that makes the most sense

Tbh

[spice spire]

It makes it easy mode for sure and he’s done the numbers. He knows more than me there

[thorn fjord]

At this point it dont even matter

just get the fuggin kill

I want my sweet release already... brood dies this week and then my hell begins

[gusty mirage]

buddy

that's at minimum a month long jail cell

[thorn fjord]

Yeah im REALLY looking forward to it

[vestal wren]

well good luck

[thorny pond]

why go to jail

just quit

join a CE guild

[gusty mirage]

we are in CE guilds

???

[thorny pond]

I am explaining efficient methods to skipping Raz prog

[gusty mirage]

explain this

[uncut echo]

Oxi we should raid together

[gusty mirage]

I already told you to apply

and let me know

so I can talk to kittenz

so

idk what else you want from me

[uncut echo]

You tossed me to rae

[spice spire]

@thorny pond we should raid together

[gusty mirage]

no I didn't

I legit told you to apply

and you never did

how is that my fault

[uncut echo]

Hold up lemme chdck

[thorny pond]

indeed

[spice spire]

You down next week, king? :3

[gusty mirage]

every time someone asks me about raiding

I tell you to apply

[uncut echo]

Im dumb

[thorny pond]

I am

[uncut echo]

I dont remember the guild name Oxi that's mb

[gray crest]

Back in March

[spice spire]

I was about to post something toxic

[gusty mirage]

you can raid with roujin next tier

[spice spire]

It’s March rn

What’s this back

[gusty mirage]

he's a cool dude

but he's a fed

[gusty mirage]

the thing I blow out on your pops when I visit him on the weekends

[uncut echo]

I'm raiding with a DEA agent rn

Oxi you're malganis right

[gusty mirage]

no

illidan

[uncut echo]

Oh

Okay

I'll find guild there and app

Ty

[gusty mirage]

I'm literally offering you my raid spot

[uncut echo]

WOOO

[gusty mirage]

apply

tell kittenz you know me in the app

ggs

[spice spire]

Yeah I’m the MG guy

[uncut echo]

I'll say I'm your Ravenholdt discord kitten

[ebon notch]

@gusty mirage can i apply

[gray crest]

Yeah

[ebon notch]

with a monster cock

[gusty mirage]

@ebon notch we're not good enough for you mr. hall of fame

[thorny pond]

I will be there whenever you tell me to be king

[uncut echo]

Surgically amputated 2 years ago

[ebon notch]

[uncut echo]

We ain't packin'

[spice spire]

Nah, just see if you like the place first

[ebon notch]

toxic but ok

[gusty mirage]

why is that toxic

[ebon notch]

i want to raid with my favourite legal defender oxcippital lobe

[spice spire]

I ain’t down for people to pay and then see how much of a shit show it is :3

[thorn fjord]

@spice spire can i still come to your heroic clear

[thorny pond]

I like you and x-realm is a thing

tell me when to be

[spice spire]

Yeah exactly

[gray crest]

I'll be sure to call him that in raid and hope everyone else starts calling him that

[spice spire]

Next Wednesday we game

[spice spire]

Yeah it’ll be this weekend papi

[gusty mirage]

missed your shot

only RH gamer I've raided with is whispyr

[thorn fjord]

Did he yell at you the entire time?

[gusty mirage]

whispyr?

no

why would he yell at me

[thorn fjord]

He yells at everyone

[gusty mirage]

do you think I yell at people?

[thorn fjord]

is that a trick question

[gusty mirage]

no?

[earnest remnant]

think ive seen a certain broodkeeper clip

[gusty mirage]

[thorn fjord]

[gray crest]

To be fair, that wasn't at people

[gusty mirage]

99% of my raiding experience is this:

[spice spire]

Based

[thorn fjord]

Smart

[gusty mirage]

and I have a GIF explaining why

[earnest remnant]

well just cus he didn't say the DH's name

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/big-trouble-if-i-speak-if-i-speak-i-am-in-big-trouble-speak-big-gif-23519858

[earnest remnant]

he knew it was at him

[cobalt hemlock]

relatable

[thorn fjord]

extremely

[gusty mirage]

I think he means that DHs aren't people

[cobalt hemlock]

BASED

[spice spire]

Bro how r u gonna say that when @uncut echo is right here

[gusty mirage]

you literally replied to how I'm going to say it

are you dumb????

[spice spire]

I resemble that remark

[thorny pond]

Yea but it's about your heart

not your brain

8 or 9 CST mr. @spice spire

[spice spire]

8-10:30 CST

[thorny pond]

hell ya

[spice spire]

I’ll double check with rl but he likes ur pitch

[thorn fjord]

its all coming together boiz

[uncut echo]

Rogue DH

I'm only subhuman

[spice spire]

Me

[thorny pond]

you mean he likes you =p

[spice spire]

Whether he likes me or not is irrelevant

I’m actually quite awful to work with

That’s why I was endowed with the douche officer title

[thorny pond]

Same

But I can keep my mouth shut and do as I am told

[strange python]

So uhh

Parsing this tier is a fucking mess, huh?

[spice spire]

Can be

[strange python]

Lots of requiring groups to leave adds up

I meant to post that in sub channel where it's a bit more true tbh, but still

[thorn fjord]

Its ok you've come to the right place to doom

[strange python]

Get boon, beg for adds to be left alive. Fun

[ember mural]

[spice spire]

You down mister doz nuts

?

[dark token]

We started skipping dathea 4th adds and my parse

Need to convince raid to get me in group 1

[thorn fjord]

managed to get a high 60's parse

[subtle tundra]

why would that matter

boss gang anyways

faster kill timer is better

[dark token]

cause when content is on farm i entertain myslef by trying to get numbers higher

else i would just quit till next patch

[grim tangle]

we only do the first platform

[keen spruce]

Should the last add set basically be dying right as the last eggs are cut on mythic brood? we're getting kinda fucked in the transition

[dark token]

really? 2nd platform skipped?

mythic?

[grim tangle]

yes

haha oh sorry no I'm talking about normal

[dark token]

whats your killtime

or got a log you can link?

im curious how you handle debuffs

[grim tangle]

not sure I think like 4:40 or something but you can 3 heal and do faster

just look at the fastest logs

[lucid nexus]

Hi, I've a (maybe stupide) question on energy management. On long fight like on raid boss or boss on tyrannical week, I always reach a point in the fight where I really lack energy. Leading to a huge loss a DPS. It's not supposed to happen, right ?

What's the way to play it well ?
Do we have to spend energy when we have it to build CP has fast has possible ?
Or at the opposite do we have to spend energy only to not waste it ? Wait a kind of "optimal spot", idk ? Some good use I do not know maybe ?

[uncut echo]

You have downtime as sin, by nature

[lucid nexus]

so we "just" have to spend energy and at a point waiting dearhmark to refill us ?

[thorn fjord]

Gotta optimize your tea usage

[storm belfry]

I love tea

[lucid nexus]

i only use it outside of DM around 0-20 energy and if I do not have BS proc or SBS charge to waste to build CP

[dark token]

yes

sin waits for resources sometimes

ur not playing outlaw

its normal

if you get used to it you can instead not spam every gcd

and pool resources

or keep a mid amount and space out your globals except in burst windows

[storm belfry]

I want sbs next to my name

[thorn fjord]

Tea should minimize alot of that downtime

[weak horizon]

does it though? tea only gives you short bursts

[thorn fjord]

it 100% does

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor my time for the stupid question of the day:

does shrouded suffocation always increase garrote dmg by 20%, or only when used from stealth

[weak horizon]

yeah but with getting 1 charge every minute it definitely feels like it minimizes a small portion of the downtime

maybe i'm not pooling enough?

[royal lantern]

you dont pool energy

[thorn fjord]

You shouldnt be needing to cast it that much so the 1 charge a minute isnt that bad

[royal lantern]

its just like, bettwen SbS giving cp for low energy cost, ER giving fast finishers, general higher energy generation in DF, DM giving energy etc.... you dont really have much energy problems

[thorn fjord]

^^^^^

[uncut echo]

99% it's all the time

[grave nova]

whats easier to play ST sub or sin?

[thorn fjord]

Sub

[weak isle]

both

[dark token]

sub

in pure st

[weak horizon]

maybe sin? just because you don't have to worry about burst window timing around boss mechs as much?

[dark token]

is so braindead with first dance

[thorn fjord]

Yeah theres nothing you need to think about with SUb

Sub*

[dark token]

sin at least you have a piano opener and lining up exang etc

sub just sends on ST

[weak horizon]

Well you need to plan around boss mechs for your dance windows, right?

[dark token]

not really

[vestal wren]

on single target specific assassinaton

[royal lantern]

i mean, is there a single dps spec that DOESNT just send on CD lmao

[vestal wren]

in mythic plus outlaw/sub are easier

all 3 have min/max so if you want to learn/refine there is room for that

[thorn fjord]

The sin opener generally breaks peoples brains for w/e reason @vestal wren

[weak horizon]

how do i min-max sin? i'm struggling to go from like 80-90 parses to like 95+

[static glacier]

depends on your personal inclination#

[vestal wren]

looking at log reviews i know a lot of basics of sub do too

[thorn fjord]

Thats crazy to me

just send on CD and only use sec tec during SD

what else is there lol

[weak isle]

you would be suprised

how people can fuck up

some people just dont know what first dance does

[vestal wren]

thistle tea, shadow dance rotation

gloomblade in dance

there is a lot of things that confuses people, danse macabre also leads to all sort of feelcrafting

a very common mistake is to miss globals during dance

and losing globals is fairly punishing during it

[thorn fjord]

🤷‍♂️

I dont play sub ST but theres barely any ST to begin with

[vestal wren]

it is just easier to get good output on assassination compared to subtlety for a beginner

this is why i refer to it as easier

[thorn fjord]

That I can understand

Because you'll still get kinda huge numbers even if you botch the opener

[vestal wren]

there is nothing mechanically super complex, there are a lot of small optimizations you can do on sub

its diffrent in m+ for the same reason

even playing subtlety bad, spamming storm and bp will lead to good ouput in overall

[severe sparrow]

i always felt like sin was easier st. just put your dots on and make them do bigger numbers every few minutes. i panic when i hit dance as sub and sometimes fuck up my sectech cuz im bad

[royal lantern]

every fight is a ST fight when the rest of the raid does enough aoe

[vestal wren]

and damage output is for many the primary appeal for a spec when learning

[gaunt moat]

That's why i'm demotivated to learn sub for rasz.
even on assassination it took me months to learn all the little things.
so learning it for sub seems daunting

[thorn fjord]

It wont take you nearly as long @gaunt moat

[vestal wren]

i do think you can as a experienced player faily quick pick up sub

and you will have whipes w/e so should give you time to learn timings and practice the rotation

most ppl in the discord are already above the average player

and will faster pick up things, just joining discord and discussing does mean the individual has a higher priority to refine gameplay

[thorn fjord]

Yep

[gaunt moat]

It's true i'm starting from a better starting point
but i'm also expected to perform at a high level

[thorn fjord]

You should be fine

Send on CD

Dont send SecTec outside of SD

[gaunt moat]

and i've played hundred of hours as sin
zero as sub

[thorn fjord]

and optimize your tea

[gaunt moat]

@thorn fjord you just heard fuu, there's a lot of micro optimizations etc. 🥲

[lucid nexus]

ty for feedbacks

[thorn fjord]

Slight nuances but it comes with actually playing it

And even if you're not optimizing 100% you'll still be doing decent dmg

[vestal wren]

yes but you can read them up in the faq

there is a extra section for it

or well, just ask me or anyone in the channel

[thorn fjord]

We're all friends here 🙂

[vestal wren]

its just like.. we have a community to help you out if you want to learn

[gaunt moat]

I'm sure you have all the information out there, it's just a lot to take in at once
compared to how i gradually learned assassination
and i'm old, so it's scary

[thorn fjord]

@gaunt moat dont compare it to sin... The fact that you have the sin knowledge already puts you ahead with sub

[gaunt moat]

(Then there's also the thing about my history as sin figurehead, and I still hang on it, like I gotta stay true to sin haha)

[thorn fjord]

Sooner you let go of that the better

I was the same way

[gaunt moat]

you know what i've been doing whole day instead of learning sub?
camping a bird rare spawn to take a picture with s.e.l.f.i.e

[thorn fjord]

🙉

[weak horizon]

!logs

[prisma monolith]

Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage

Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/

[sudden canyon]

you guys playing IC this week?

[weak horizon]

so i'm wondering how to improve on terros. wowanalyzer seems to indicate i'm doing nearly everything correctly but i ended up with an 86 parse. How do I go up from there? I do note that it says that shiv had an 86% efficiency, is the difference really just getting another shiv cast? https://wowanalyzer.com/report/dRgc1npTj74f6NLq/34-Mythic+Terros+-+Kill+(5:25)/Viggyy/standard

oh i guess i had pot misbound so i missed using that too. would that be the difference?

[thorn fjord]

Slight

Could be gear too

I don’t have eggnog ring so parsing is harder

[craggy glacier]

Hey! might sound strange, but can anyone help me with a macro? when i press vanish i want it to yell, now you see me now you dont (shaco reference)

[weak isle]

lmfao

[slow marsh]

nice

[weak isle]

just macro

#showtooltip
/cast vanish
/say now you see me now you dont

or /yell

whatever u want

[craggy glacier]

Ty, Sorry im new

[thorn fjord]

Have fun with that hahaha

Hidden tech @craggy glacier

If you’re a Tauren macroing moo to DM increases dps by 3%

[craggy glacier]

xD

Not that new buddy xD

just to rogue and macros

[thorn fjord]

Well cow gives you a 3% crit buff

Soo I’m not trolling super hard

[craggy glacier]

i know that

im a belf

for shaco purposes

[thorn fjord]

Then macro /moan

[craggy glacier]

ofc!

[royal wraith]

Are you supposed to hold exsanguinate for death mark or just use it on CD?

[weak isle]

hold it if fights is long enough

send it if ur fight ends before it alligns

iirc atleast

[spice spire]

Hold 3m for 4m dm

[royal wraith]

Ty sir

I'm sucking passive peepee on assass so trying to get bettter

[thorn fjord]

We're holding till 4m now regardless

[weak isle]

so if boss dies in 3 min

or like 3.30

u just dont send exang?

i mean

DM

[thorn fjord]

lol

[weak isle]

sorry

[thorn fjord]

Well in that situation no

But i dont think there are many mythic fights going under 4:30

If any i dunno

[weak isle]

ofc mythic

4fun hc reclear for sparks

👀

[spice spire]

3:30 lineup all at 3

For omega wicked dam

[fathom sail]

don't know how to create a thread for the log, sorry
can anyone help me understand why my damage is so low?
am i taking too long for the setup or sth.?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gNycYpmbD3FaT9q4#fight=42&type=casts&source=46&view=timeline

[weak isle]

!log

[prisma monolith]

Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage

Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/

[weak isle]

^

[burnt latch]

make @ebon notch community figure please

[ebon notch]

why lmao

[burnt latch]

i wanted to use my monthly vote on you

[ebon notch]

we dont get to vote

[fathom sail]

thing is i cant really see any big difference to the rotation of the opener
i tried the recommended one where you use vanish at the start and also where you delay it, but im still low on dps with both

[balmy condor]

Always

Because apparently there’s a dot there

That’s the explanation I was given

“Increases garrote damage by 20%. blab blah combo point”

[royal lantern]

ye its just

shrouded was coded as "stronger stealth garrote" in my head, and i litearlly only just realised that it says "garrote does 20%more dmg. more cp from stealth"

and my mind opened

[balmy condor]

Yeh

It’s a weird one

Cause shrouded used to be stealth only

The azerite at least

But now it’s perma

[thorn fjord]

Nice change tho

[royal lantern]

tbf, also makes the talent somewhat weird imo

[balmy condor]

Yeah

Non-stealth and stealth on the same talent

Is a choice

[royal lantern]

gotcha, its a chose 1 node now bettwen the stealth or no stealth effect

[weak horizon]

heart of azeroth v2 when

[royal lantern]

thats lariat

[weak horizon]

lol that's actually true in a sense

[gaunt moat]

@royal lantern Maybe the wires got crossed for you with "Improved Garrote"
Not the I can blame you
likei said many times, like half of our talents are just "Bleed deals % more damage"

so they lose of their unique identity

[royal lantern]

nah, its just that my small brain saw shrouded and instantly turned the dmg increase into stealth only, cus thats how it worked in BfA

[storm belfry]

Ring of Azeroth next patch

[thorn fjord]

dont even

[gaunt moat]

What's the point of Master Assassin
is it for PvP or something?

[storm belfry]

You know. The new ring w the domination shard system /s

[hollow dirge]

Whenever I read that talent, I end up exiting game atleast an hour before I planned

That’s what it’s for, controlling your game time, so you don’t develop addiction

[thorny pond]

Funny how MA was peak when it was on shoulders in legion

now it's a meme

[thorn fjord]

We ran it in SL too

[thorny pond]

Yea but it was 50%

now it's 50% and a "gotcha" point

[oak sky]

30%

[static glacier]

for restealth situations / opening burst

[gaunt moat]

your first 3 seconds on opener are Garrote SnD Garrote
there benefit of MA is nonexistant

[oak sky]

I liked MA better as a choice with garrote so it changed the opener

But oh well

[royal lantern]

well, it was 100% in legion for 5sec and good

then 50% for 3sec in bfa/SL and was somewhat ok cus it was the best option avaible

now its 30% for 3sec cus its supposed to work in shadow dance, but we dont touch shadow dance because that means multiple dead talent points 🙂

kill a talent cus it has a forced interaction with a talent we dont play

[thorn fjord]

It was 6s at one point in legion

Fucking based

[royal lantern]

it was for me, last legendary that dropped

[thorn fjord]

DW was my first and it took a bit to get the shoulders

I got shoulders when tomb opened up

When you could exploit the portals for those caches

[gaunt moat]

I went back to my guide prototype to see what i wrote about it

[royal lantern]

cease 🙂

[royal lantern]

fun aspect?

[oak sky]

Sounds really degen to me

[royal lantern]

you pressed a macro before and after a boss

lol

F U N

[drifting cosmos]

It was not fun when you had to carry 40 gears in your bag

[oak sky]

I wouldnt expect them to bring it back anyways

[drifting cosmos]

3-5 sets with different legendaries combo

[royal lantern]

i mean, i just dont understand what is fun about "press a macro that equips a aoe legendary/trinket for trash, and then a macro that equips a st legendary/trinket for bosses"

i mean yeha, people like beeing OP ofc, but thats not fun lol

[drifting cosmos]

But back then Lego were much more impactful

[royal lantern]

+it makes shit impossible to balance, like imagine if all melee dps just swap bettwen puzzlebox+torch and boon+whetstone in m+ all the time

[drifting cosmos]

just wait for legion classic

[storm belfry]

I’m ready

[thorn fjord]

The dream tbh

[royal lantern]

cease

[thorn fjord]

hows brood prog coming Try

[royal lantern]

brood?

dathea lol

[thorn fjord]

Oh damn i thought you guys killed her already

[royal lantern]

and shit

[thorn fjord]

mb

[royal lantern]

nah

thats the 2nd day cus shitton of days missed out

covid hit people hard

[thorn fjord]

rip

[velvet ridge]

hey when you Scent of Blood, does the percent agility increase happens after potion, or is it like a base level

do you get more agility if you potion, or does it not matter

[thorny pond]

testing showed it did not take into account the pot

7669 baseline, 7899 w/ SoB x1 stack
8275 with pot, 8510 w/ SoB x1 stack

both Deltas are 230-235

[balmy condor]

Yeh

It’s base agi

[tulip kernel]

how do i find the spreadsheets again?

jk i found

are top gear/quicksim links broken for anyone else in the spreadsheet?

[balmy condor]

the links are broken in mine but the info is still up to date

[oak ember]

Do you guys sometimes get rupture removed from mobs in keys?

I've noticed it's always with an enhance in the group

[sage oriole]

incaps can remove dots from targets

or is it disorients?

one or the other

[thorny pond]

u owe me 22g

[balmy condor]

real

[thorny pond]

bet

[outer siren]

[golden quail]

Is the Raging Tempests 2 piece bonus really better than higher ilvl options (writs + belt) ? Every sim I run says changing them are a dps loss, but they are ilvl 385. hmm

[balmy condor]

they aren't

you shouldn't be using the set

[tall atlas]

You good?

[balmy condor]

It's been a good day yeah, thank you!

did some cleaning earlier too

been real productive

[granite sundial]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[tall atlas]

Nice glad to hear it

[brazen zodiac]

nice!

[weak isle]

cct bait? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pqLwLXQG53nkz1jpkLDVzL

[oak sky]

nah its a decent trinket

probably top 5 or so

[balmy condor]

411 grief ain't great

[weak isle]

Ye brood is soon ™️

dathea dying soon 🙏 45% best pull

[balmy condor]

[weak isle]

boss is a shitter tho

fk me

[thorn fjord]

It gets worse

Gl

[weak isle]

diurna looks fine

[balmy condor]

it's brainmeltingly boring

[weak isle]

im RL'ing so it brings a bit more than just target dummy fighting xD

[drifting cloud]

#off-topic message

[strange python]

I didn't realize incarnate took 320 pulls on raz 😮

[gaunt moat]

@weak isle
lol, i was just watching my friend in heroic, and i saw a rogue doing 85k on dathea, i asked him to check who that is

why are you pugging heroic, trying to get logs? hah

[weak isle]

LOL

i was just helping my guildy gear his evoker healer

85K is low af tho

[gaunt moat]

stfu XD

[weak isle]

my internet just disappeared for 5 seconds at 1 point

[gaunt moat]

But i guess 2:30 minutes fight makes sense to be that high, with DM just coming back

[weak isle]

ye that pug absolutely MELTED bosses

legit <3min fights over and over

[gaunt moat]

My friend was the DH tank
he asked me to come help too

but i didn't wanna 😬

[weak isle]

https://tenor.com/view/kung-fu-panda-finally-a-worthy-opponent-our-battle-will-be-legendary-battle-fight-gif-24829111

[gaunt moat]

why'd you break before razs though?
had plenty of damage

[static glacier]

this weeks dathea hc kill

wish it was rogue 😔

[weak isle]

well my friend didnt need raszy

[static glacier]

guess the spec

[gaunt moat]

BM

[static glacier]

wrong

[gaunt moat]

warlock?

[weak isle]

UH dk

[static glacier]

wrong

wrong

[weak isle]

Evoker?

[static glacier]

wrong

[gaunt moat]

Survival

[static glacier]

lmao

[weak isle]

dunno chief

[static glacier]

ding ding ding

[weak isle]

sheesh

[gaunt moat]

i knew it had to be a hunter

[static glacier]

honestly, the sv damage on brood was more impressive

87k st over 5;01

my alt unironically better than my main ever will be

[gaunt moat]

well... at least until 10.1

@weak isle

[static glacier]

exsang rework won't nerf the spec

[weak isle]

LOL

man if that priest just gave me PI, it was a 99 parse day

but BM hunters

[gaunt moat]

priests are assassination blind

[weak isle]

sin pi is actually cracked

i swear

[static glacier]

issue is outside of pull and 4 mins it's not that huge

the pi on dm without box / exsang is lackluster

and arms will steal our execute pi every time

that and pi is cringe, I actively roll off specs that require it

[weak isle]

i got execute pi on kurog

and pull

[static glacier]

bruh

you guys not have any real 2t classes?

evo pi on that boss is so cracked

[weak isle]

u dont understand

i had 3 priests

LOL

[static glacier]

xd

[weak isle]

2shadow 1 holy

cracked pi stack

no bm hunters, no uholy dks, just me a lock and an evoker

also no arms warrior

[static glacier]

bruh

inb4 buffed ele sham is a contender

[gaunt moat]

there was also a sub rogue

[static glacier]

sin rogues are kinda rare atm

current team has 3 rogues, 1 ol otp, one sub and me

[weak isle]

I play all 3 anyway

[static glacier]

^

[weak isle]

I just adapt

[static glacier]

not playing as much OL atm

[gaunt moat]

🚨 BREAKING NEWS 🚨
https://www.wowhead.com/news/update-to-beast-mastery-hunter-compensation-changes-in-patch-10-0-7-331644?webhook

[weak isle]

Same

[gaunt moat]

Hunters not buffed to extreme

[weak isle]

Sin @ sub are doing the trick for me

[gaunt moat]

The fact they even thought buffing hunters even more as compensation just tells you about the incompetence of the people working there

they only reverted this because the community did the math for them

[thorn fjord]

Also tells you the incompetence of the hunter player base

[weak isle]

LOL

[thorn fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/smart-thinking-thoughts-think-ponder-gif-7713620

[gusty mirage]

how many poisons do I use on bosses

[weak isle]

4

[gusty mirage]

but crippling doesn't apply to bosses

WRONG

[weak isle]

But?

I cripple the boss anyway?

So

It counts?

[gusty mirage]

yes that means we get less damage from lethal dose

unlucky

nerf rogue

buff bm hunter

[gaunt moat]

I wonder how much change the hunters will get now.
i bet it's still an overall buff, just not 8%

[gusty mirage]

yeah they'll just get 102k

instead of 105k

what a tragic outcome for them

[gaunt moat]

you should see the comments on wowhead

people are crying and saying this game is shit

because the top ST spec, will only get a little buff instead of huge buff...

[weak isle]

Not wrong

[grim tangle]

but bm doesn't do any aoe damage

[marble hemlock]

why get st buffs when you can get st nerfs instead

[weak isle]

Neither does sin

[gaunt moat]

Blizz's nerfs when they see sin doing well:

https://tenor.com/view/star-platinum-gif-18007371

[marble hemlock]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvVqKGpVfto&t=50s&ab_channel=WowItsHard

[drifting cosmos]

thats a good one

[gaunt moat]

Still true today

[keen spruce]

what boss health do yall normally get M brood to going into p2?

[balmy condor]

little under 60

[keen spruce]

okay we're pretty close then

[drifting cloud]

2 because youre playing sub

[gusty mirage]

can we do something about this sexual tension

or

[pastel onyx]

any new holywar discussions

[drifting cloud]

sorry for the bait reply no kap my discord is bugging and it scrolls up so I didnt see it was a 2h old post

[spice spire]

Just oxi and ryler banging

[pastel onyx]

ok

[keen spruce]

we're over 100 pulls on brood

32% best pull

finally getting to p2 with some consistency

[spice spire]

I’m at like 20 on sennarth

And I want to keep myself safe

I hate the camera bug

🙂

[keen spruce]

is that still happening?

[spice spire]

Ye

[keen spruce]

i never encountered it

do you have turn character keybound

[spice spire]

4 pulls where I just spin in a circle for forty five seconds

No, I use mouse to move

Which is cursed for that fight

[pastel onyx]

opening comments below the hunts adjusments post

[keen spruce]

maybe alt tab and tab back in? lol

[pastel onyx]

was a mistake

[keen spruce]

i dunno it looks like aids tho

[spice spire]

Honestly I didn’t consider

But I could see that working

[keen spruce]

someone woulda probably mentioned it by now if it did

[pastel onyx]

[keen spruce]

idk sennarth pretty fun on reclears

but it is so miserable to prog

[spice spire]

Sennarth would be fine. If my character didn’t randomly to spin right round baby right round

[pastel onyx]

dathea prog is 😴

[keen spruce]

dathea got a lot more fun once they started letting me play assas

then got less fun when they made me go to platform 2

to help kill big guy

[pastel onyx]

I play otl and go platforms

its just we barely reached 2 platform

[keen spruce]

then i thought brood was gonna be fun cuz i got to play assas

[pastel onyx]

like

[spice spire]

Banned

[pastel onyx]

4 times

[keen spruce]

but now i'm cutting eggs

which actually makes boss duty less boring so i guess it oculd be worse

[keen spruce]

once you learn p1 p2 then the fight gets easier

are you guys doin 3 platform strat?

cuz 3 platform strat is the way

[spice spire]

Gn homies. Hope you all have a great one

[pastel onyx]

gn gn

[keen spruce]

night

[pastel onyx]

I am not sure we can dps check it, we have some

eeeeh

questionable

players

lets put it that way

although boss hp

goes down rly fast

so can see it work

[keen spruce]

i think dathea was like 40% when they got back from plat 3

or something

[pastel onyx]

4th platform just 1 heal and tank

right

[keen spruce]

we killed it after platform 5 spawned

no totally ignore

[pastel onyx]

ah

[keen spruce]

dunk marks until the last 2 adds are one away from spawning then everyone just holds or immunes or dies with marks

[pastel onyx]

I will try to convince my rl to let me paly assas on brood and stay on boss

100%

[keen spruce]

hard sell

if platforms are struggling at all

we just had a lot of big AoE classes

[pastel onyx]

we have 2 afflis tunneling the boss

not going platform

[keen spruce]

i think we ended up keeping warlock, rogue, hunter down

but i'd go up on p2 and hunter on p3 only

to cover CDs that were missing

and we didn't have a priest or druid for the kill lol

cuz they were on vacation

most dangerous parts are when people are comin back from platforms tho

so less is better for sure if you're able to

[pastel onyx]

Me making aruments in my head to convince rl to handle me boon

I can eeeh

dodge raz pull

[keen spruce]

isn't rogue kinda the main boon enjoyer?

[pastel onyx]

ye

[keen spruce]

how many rogues u guys got?

[pastel onyx]

1

[keen spruce]

cuz we got 3 so i was never gonna get that shit lol

2 outlaw one tricks

[pastel onyx]

We have a google doc to fill for the items

and delete when acquired

so I just wrote a paragrapgh why boon should for sure go to me

[keen spruce]

[pastel onyx]

its basically

me have cos

and shadow step

[keen spruce]

send him this

[pastel onyx]

I wanna press boon on reclear

on platform

[shy pecan]

What happens if you use maces as sin? It negates certain abilities from being used, right?

[ebon notch]

ye

straight up cant mutilate

[shy pecan]

Hmmm, that's weird, just had this rogue run with double maces in sin...

[balmy condor]

and they did 0 damage

[shy pecan]

I guess I'm more confused because how did he get mutilates off?

[pastel onyx]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-gif-26460616

def a cheater

report rn

[storm belfry]

[shy pecan]

Might have been some inspect bug thinking about it more

Looking at the logs

[storm belfry]

Weird for sure

[balmy condor]

Spiteful Storm
After the fix, this trinket gained about 1% overall dps.

It's still worse than 415 puzzle box, heroic+ CCT/Grieftorch/Mythic Icon

Shouldn't change too much, but might be an okay pick if you have literally NOTHING

[subtle tundra]

Cool

Idk what that is, but cool