assassination

[balmy condor]

and you really have some options here

damage wise, the best option would be 2/2 imp poison

that's not too debatable

mut talents are kinda trash in m+, which kills vicious venom

also eliminates doomblade for the most part, since that's just enabling bone spike, and we don't have the points for that

you could argue for flying daggers -> systemic, if you're trying to get to arterial

but arterial lowkey trash

the only reason you would ever play arterial is because you value the de-enrage more than your own damage

which if that's how you wanna live your life, sure

take the point out of amp poison to take double shiv charges, then go into arterial

neat-o

but that's a very niche thing

so best practice is just imp poison

[steel ridge]

entire spec is a niche

[balmy condor]

and from there, we want to grab both capstones

dragon tempered is crazy

carnage is crazy

[steel ridge]

it doesn’t do anything best

[balmy condor]

gg that's all your points

and there's other things you could justify

I just did like nearly 90k in a cos

and I ran some WHACK shit

I played this

why would I do that?

for fun

[steel ridge]

IC is horrible in CoS

[balmy condor]

yeh

there's not a lot of big packs

and the shiv burst with AP on fort for short boss fights

kinda nice

I was doing like 130-140k on openers on bosses

[indigo wing]

so the top one is what im assuming the second best M+ build correct?

[balmy condor]

is that the best thing to run in cos? probably not

[magic vine]

you run ic in cos when you don't trust your team to handle imp pats 😄

[balmy condor]

cause AP is trash

[indigo wing]

cause it doesnt have sang

[balmy condor]

the top one is just like the faq build, except its ma vs exsang

and ma vs exsang is purely choice

exsang is bigger single target burst with box if you run that and care for it

ma is passive opener damage

there isn't really a wrong choice between the two

[steel ridge]

exsang can die in a horrible fire

[balmy condor]

the only wrong choice is not taking either of them and therefore skipping iron wire

cause iron wire is crazy

[indigo wing]

i have box and icon

so i should run sang

[balmy condor]

you can

I choose not to in keys

[steel ridge]

next week you wont get restealths

[balmy condor]

yeah

I mean it's still actually just a choice

do you choose single target, or passive opener damage

you will never be able to tell a difference to your overall dps

they're simply too close

[steel ridge]

grevious bursting is trolling

[drifting cosmos]

Healer week

[balmy condor]

[steel ridge]

every week is a healer week

[balmy condor]

second boss cos on tyrannical grievous is actually a tumor that needs to be removed

[steel ridge]

Cause healers are carrying most of the dungeon mechanics that cause wipes in the first place

[balmy condor]

it's so unreal

infinitely ramping aoe dot damage

• grievous

on a week where it's like a 2+ min kill

[native belfry]

Just spec atrophic, it’ll help

[steel ridge]

Remove double affixes

[balmy condor]

I mean you're not wrong, it technically will help

I'm not sure the healer will notice

but it'll help

[drifting cosmos]

makes you feel better

Helping the team

[native belfry]

I remember RLP before nerfs, atrophic actually helped us to kill 2nd boss after 1.5 hours on it

[drifting cosmos]

Group utility

[balmy condor]

I dare you guys if you run with the same healer, run a key with atrophic, then run a key with numbing, and then don't run a key with either

and ask your healer after if they noticed any difference

they won't

I tried

[steel ridge]

they wont

The tank might

[balmy condor]

they'll just talk about how nice it is to have a tank with rally

[magic vine]

numbing usually makes a difference in how many interrupts happen i've noticed

[balmy condor]

yeh

[runic hinge]

This build looks kinda fun

[balmy condor]

no shrouded was whack, was pretty fun aside from that though, yeah

I like AP

I am an AP enjoyer

but it's so fucking garbage

[runic hinge]

Can I run cold blood with it for extra memes

[indigo wing]

this was the most informative convo ive had thank you

[balmy condor]

I can't play AP with a straight face bro

the gameplay, top notch

but you think about how you're dropping shrouded for it

and you actually just feel like a fucking clown

[steel ridge]

Yeah shrouded is in the wrong place up there

[balmy condor]

zold 2 points

actually fixes AP

[steel ridge]

yeah

Sad we still got no changes

i want IC to trigger improved garrote

so baaaaad

Biggest QoL

[balmy condor]

now I'm actually curious

[oak sky]

zold 2 points instant banger

[balmy condor]

if 2 point zold AP + shrouded

is giga

[oak sky]

dude whispyr

what if scent was like

2 points

first point rupture

2nd point garrote

🤤

[balmy condor]

[oak sky]

make both points valuable like that

[steel ridge]

[balmy condor]

bro just lost

I see the stain in his pants bro

yeh

I mean

many banger things can happen

but things in general need to happen

for those things to be banger

so step 1 should be making things happen

[oak sky]

imagine this

the 3 pointers are reduced

then we end up with cool new shit to replace the lost points

🤤

[runic hinge]

I had a dream last night I was scrolling through the 10.0.7 patch notes and it just said “no changes to rogue fuck you” and I woke up and it was pretty much true

[balmy condor]

hey now

hold on

we got a 5% nerf to hemo in pvp

are the dozens of people who pvp worth nothing to you

[runic hinge]

I got to 1800 for the mog

That was like week 2 tho and I haven’t done anything since

Before all the nerfs

[balmy condor]

aight give me a second I'm cooking

[pastel onyx]

running flying daggers?

[balmy condor]

bro

I love you, keep it up you're doing great

I'm so proud of what you've done with yourself

[pastel onyx]

[balmy condor]

yeah when whispyr roasts people it's funny, but when I start giving compliments, you know it's fucked

terrifying thing to see

[pastel onyx]

yup

[spice spire]

Wish you’d compliment me senpai

[runic hinge]

All shall live in fear

[balmy condor]

you have a dog

[spice spire]

Damn

[oak sky]

compliment me like one of your frenchmen

[pastel onyx]

ok, do I buy a cat from the breeder or do I get one from the shelter

rly important

question

[runic hinge]

Both.

[spice spire]

Shelter give those poor dudes a home

[runic hinge]

So they can be prince and pauper friends

[pastel onyx]

I need something living running around my appartment that are not kids

[oak sky]

shelter unless ur like dead set on a breed or smth

[pastel onyx]

nah

not set

[oak sky]

shelter for sure

[pastel onyx]

idc rly care unless its the bald one

[oak sky]

i can respect wanting a certain kind of cat or dog or whatever

but shelter is a move

[pastel onyx]

ok

[oak sky]

idk anything about pets ive never had one

shelter tho you saw what quake said

[pastel onyx]

I despise people gettin dog breeds that are not meant for the city, and then not investing time to go out a lot with them

[indigo wing]

i have bald cats

[balmy condor]

to match your big ass forehead

makes sense

[oak sky]

you become a bigger hater every day

[balmy condor]

they call me a masterhater

I think that's what they call me

[oak sky]

i just call you daddy

[balmy condor]

[indigo wing]

sadly i dont have a big forhead im just one of those hypster kids with face tattoos who will go nowhere

[balmy condor]

I love post malone

[indigo wing]

i get called lil peep everyday\

[oak sky]

seasons changed when our love went cooooooold

[balmy condor]

that goes kinda hard

[pastel onyx]

how many cats do u have

whispyr

[balmy condor]

2

[pastel onyx]

I kinda dont like a lot of fur everywhere, but I think I can cope with that

rly like cats

[jade abyss]

Try Senpai uwu :D

Cats are pawsome

[pastel onyx]

The only pet I had was a big ass central asia shephard dog

Alabay breed

It was bigger than me whe I was a kid

[oak sky]

well ive had fish before

i want a cat

eventually

[runic hinge]

I live with a 17 year old parrot. He’s not really a pet tho cause he kinda does whatever he wants.

[balmy condor]

bro stop I'm gonna meow on god

[balmy condor]

fish go hard

they don't do shit, but they really be aesthetic

[oak sky]

yeah

i dont think i would have one again

[balmy condor]

you roll up to the house with the fish tank you're like

damn

they got a fish tank

[oak sky]

like it was cool but like

they dont do anything

i want an animal roaming around my house

doing dumb things that make me have to clean up

[pastel onyx]

[oak sky]

but not a dog because of childhood trauma

[pastel onyx]

Same

Its like a training before u have kids

[pastel onyx]

Got bitten?

[oak sky]

never bitten

but knocked over

scratched

barked at

charged

i was scared of them for a long time

i've come a long way but I still wouldn't really want one as a pet

it would have to be realllly chill

[balmy condor]

so like a taxidermized dog

those guys are giga chill

[pastel onyx]

[balmy condor]

don't even flinch

[oak sky]

my friend had one of those rug dogs

some kind of poodle mix

that guy was pretty chill

i could vibe with one of those but i wouldnt like intentionally choose to have a dog

but who knows life is about overcoming fear maybe my challenge will be having a dog

[balmy condor]

aight I finished cooking 2 point zold doesn't do shit

[pastel onyx]

Well thank god my dog didnt attack me when I was a kid

It would one shot me

[balmy condor]

AP is just unredeemable I guess

[jade abyss]

You ride on it?

[pastel onyx]

I tried

[steel ridge]

cook harder man

[pastel onyx]

It was one of those

[balmy condor]

I can't

I already brought zold to 2 points

[steel ridge]

fuck

[balmy condor]

well

[steel ridge]

REALZ

[balmy condor]

I guess I could cook 2 point scent

AND 2 point zold

[grim jay]

Did you sim the AoE CB TTB Shiv with 2 zoldyck tho

[balmy condor]

and then AP + IC

[balmy condor]

[steel ridge]

well did you account for compensation?

like 2 point zoldyck still giving 45%?

or just 30%

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

no, because dashing didn't get compensation going from 3 to 2 either

[steel ridge]

then its unredeemable

the entire tree has to be purged

[jade abyss]

Try cats they do a lot of silly funny stuff but you dont must go out twice or more per day with it

[oak sky]

yeah i really want a cat

my dad grew up with them but my sister and my mom are allergic so we could never get one

[jade abyss]

"Regular dogshit dtb ic or whatever" your the son from shakespear?

[steel ridge]

shakespears daddy

[balmy condor]

yeh

[jade abyss]

Whisspear

[balmy condor]

all my sim titles are done in iambic pentameter

[grim jay]

Checking wowhead news every morning

[steel ridge]

IC needs to activate improved garrote and i am dying on that hill (probably will, tho)

[balmy condor]

yeh you just died fr

[steel ridge]

._.

[balmy condor]

bro the way it's looking

realz could just actually make zold/scent 2 pointers

and it wouldn't do shit

[steel ridge]

its a nerf probably

[balmy condor]

it would do nothing for raid

and in m+ you would get some compensation in the point you get back

but it's nothing game breaking

[grim jay]

Friend of mine said she wanted to roll a feral and asked for my opinion on the playstyle

I only cried a single tear

[balmy condor]

probably less dps difference than 1 hunter tuning note

we count dps difference in hunter buffs now

[steel ridge]

if that hunter buff goes live

[grim jay]

Do you take the buff w/ or w/o bow as the unit

[balmy condor]

I love that they buffed survival

[grim jay]

So 8 or 16%

[balmy condor]

when the intention was to nerf bow

[balmy condor]

8%

they're like "oh the bow is too strong, we nerf that, here's compensation"

and then they buff ALL hunter specs

fucking

HUH?

[jade abyss]

Thats blizzard logic

[grim jay]

I think its fine since 99% still wont play surv

[balmy condor]

blizzard deadass just forgot that survival is a melee class since 2015

[indigo wing]

whysper when i do top gear and i go smc default on weapon buffs is there a way for me to check which buffs it used?

[steel ridge]

you missed Season 3 SL right?

[jade abyss]

Next tier they will introduce a legendary bow for sure x)

[balmy condor]

for sin it's buzzing runes

[grim jay]

We are in DF tho, I ignore past events in blizzards case

[steel ridge]

its a statement about the playerbase, THEY will play survival if its good

[balmy condor]

aight AP actually just not redeemable

It's not possible

[raven knoll]

Next tier there will be legendary daggers but we will receive compensation nerfs

[steel ridge]

people even fucking rerolled on survival because it was gamebreakingly broken

[grim jay]

Surv now is different from SL

[steel ridge]

its not about surv

its about the players, they will play whatever does the biggest number

regardless of how it feels or plays

they would play a spec with a single button if thats the best

[grim jay]

Well anyways, doubt it will go live

[steel ridge]

the shitstorm is raging already

if they buff the best ST spec in the game by 8 %

lmao

[grim jay]

Literally easiest spec to play close to simlevel while doing every mechanic

[steel ridge]

i dont think assassination was that crazy op in week 1

[grim jay]

And would sim highest by far

Performance through the roof

[balmy condor]

my guilds hunter simmed himself with the 10.0.7 buffs

103k

[grim jay]

Yep

[balmy condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rAYdb4o5JUzVUf8nxAwrr2

wtf is this

he already sims like 4k higher than me

[steel ridge]

that slice?

[balmy condor]

no

that's single target

[steel ridge]

fucking hell

a single KEKW doesnt cut it

you have to make an entire video about it

[grim jay]

Higher than frostmage without frostmages issues

[steel ridge]

well, i dont feel anything anymore anyway

my feral alt sims higher than my main

a few thousand hunters more wont make a difference

[grim jay]

I just started gearing my armsboi

[steel ridge]

arms is ridiculous

[grim jay]

Found frozensoviet over there aswell

[magic vine]

lol losing that 3rd zold point is just flat worse for those ap options

[balmy condor]

it's about 1% gain for both AP/DTB and AP/IC compared to what they are now

best APDTB is like 3% behind and 4% behind for AP IC

[grim jay]

I still have trouble finding the omega AoE CB TTB Shiv build in your sims

With puzzle IC exs deathmark opener on prio target

[balmy condor]

uh huh

[static glacier]

is it me or does exsang without box or stealthed garottes feel fake

[balmy condor]

that's why we hold box and exsang for dm

[jade abyss]

Get a box best what you can do

[static glacier]

I might have desync'd them in keys

[balmy condor]

yeh puzzle box good for big big aoe

but exsang you just hit on a prio with dm

[static glacier]

ye that's what I tend to do

doesn't feel amazing ngl

anyway when was the last time sin was good at 2-4 targets

[balmy condor]

last expansion

[grim jay]

Its really refreshing that we have a clear gameplan for AoE rotation

[balmy condor]

we do?

[magic vine]

yea hit n

i'll be honest, ct offends me

[sudden canyon]

!consumables

[grim jay]

Same

[grim jay]

Its fine that the aoe finisher is a dot

But let env cleave on ct targets

Would be kinda insane

I'd actually like it

Tbf

[jade abyss]

I want that mastery flagg from sub for sin

[green juniper]

I am trying sub rogue and seeing 50k dps, and changing to assa and getting like 110k dps.. how hard can it be.. i cant learn

Also i realized i never used cd’s at trash.. which is a mistake

[grim jay]

I mean

Basics are pretty straightforward

Just read the faq and for everything else ask the subboys

[balmy condor]

@grim jay is this the future you want

[static glacier]

ct looks like it does big damage in aoe, lots of numbers show up when pressed

[grim jay]

Sounds like I can finally pay for my sins in life by playing that cursed build

But hey, its an improvement

[static glacier]

can we have deathspike back

[balmy condor]

throw the whole spec away bro

[runic hinge]

What do these talents look like

[grim jay]

Would it feel bad to play tho ? I'm not entirely sold yet

[magic vine]

i'm imagining some build where everythings bleeds and poisons, then you have cooldowns that explode one of the types of dots to spread the others or something. like it instant finishes bleeds (ala skull splitter) and spreads the poisons in aoe

[dire ivy]

It’s called affliction lock. It’s curses instead of bleeds and poison but it kinda does that atleast in aoe

[balmy condor]

like this but with zold and scent being 2 points and you take both capstones

[jade abyss]

Woule deathmark as aoe be broken 🤔

[pastel onyx]

ye just double all the bleed on everyone

[balmy condor]

sounds good to me

ship it

[pastel onyx]

dont need to ptr

it

just ship

[balmy condor]

push to prod

[pastel onyx]

on friday evening

[balmy condor]

tuesday morning at 3am before the server team does the patch updates

[pastel onyx]

ah ye

that makes sense too

just add a bit of code

noone will notice

[magic vine]

just make ic spread all dots on current target to 8 targets

[pastel onyx]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-gif-26460616

[oak sky]

vile conbleedgion

[magic vine]

inverse ignite where the ability consumes all your active dots on any target in range into a new dot on your current target

every dot tick increases the damage of your next poison bomb by 1%

[indigo wing]

can i swap IW and sang for 2points in IP and FC? when i sim slice thats what gives me the highest, from the build you posted its about 700 off from what i just suggested? or is iron wire and an extra shiv super strong and i just dont know

[magic vine]

getting rid of iw is the most troll thing you can do imo

[ionic fox]

^

[jade abyss]

It would be ok for me to be a ST machine bcs thats the meaning for assassination for me.. but i like the idea from a aoe deathmark x)

[thorn crater]

My brother from another mother. I have the SAME exact issue with sub

It’s ok guys we are getting buffed too. Human rogues can now get PURPLE hair poggers

[ionic fox]

sub giga pumps

[indigo wing]

okay keep IW remove extra shive put into IP?

[pastel onyx]

dopamine shot when cb st hits

[magic vine]

what build has extra shiv? you need sang or ma to get iw so you can't shave off a point there

[indigo wing]

the one whysper posted earlier

it had 1 point in IP 1 point in LWS and MA for IW

im just asking is the extra shiv important?

[magic vine]

if its an ap build you want to keep the extra shiv i'm pretty sure

[indigo wing]

DTB

AP i could understand

[magic vine]

the normal dtb build doesn't have extra shiv, link what you're talking about because i still have no idea what layout you're looking at here

for m+ at least

actually the st one doesn't either

[verbal vessel]

probably for raging

assuming you're talking about the arterial precision build he posted about randomly playing earlier

[indigo wing]

nvm i just didnt smoke my weed today

[magic vine]

😄

i saw that, there was no double shiv in that

[steel ridge]

too many buttons man

[gaunt moat]

Was looking at class tuning
thinking "well at least rogue didn't get more nerfs..."
get to pvp..
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

Don't worry guys, we're gonna get that 10% buff ANYDAY NOW

[pastel onyx]

soon

our savior realz will be awakened from hibernation

and make us great again

[cobalt hemlock]

[pastel onyx]

non believers smh

[gaunt moat]

Maybe they're just waiting to see how the primordial gems will affect DPS

[pastel onyx]

someone open the window too much copium in this room

[shrewd night]

https://tenor.com/view/dark-mode-opening-window-from-darkness-sunlight-gif-15206620

Instructions unclear, currently in fetal position on floor

[grim jay]

Is there even anything that would affect classes differently except maybe the change dmgtype things

[gaunt moat]

I dunno.. maybe attack speed can deal more procs? i don't know what's the PPM on those gems.
but generally? i doubt it.

[royal lantern]

just woke up, open discord and you flashbang me with that gif

[echo heath]

This is going to be one of those things where they tell sin players to play another class or spec

Like they did Warlocks years ago

[grim jay]

[gaunt moat]

We did too well on heroic. next season, make sure to int.

[grim jay]

Just dont apply poison to daggers until mythic

[gaunt moat]

Geneva convention build.

[steel ridge]

you think 10% is going to cut it?

[gaunt moat]

yes

[magic vine]

10% would put assa comfortably over 100k

[royal lantern]

i rather have them fix the aoe problems instead of doubleing down on "st only lmao"

[gaunt moat]

Sure, but that ain't happening in upcoming patch (if ever)

I wonder if WW will ever get ST buffs

[royal lantern]

its ww

the answer is: yes, and then its #1 for a patch, and them bottom for another Patch again

circle of ww

[steel ridge]

we had that and they doubled us down to not have it anymore

[gaunt moat]

(And also killed KB as a by-product)

[steel ridge]

never liked KB

giving up DTB to have kingsbane never felt good to me

[brazen zodiac]

kingbane 👍

[subtle tundra]

People really like a passive that doesn't change absolutely anything

Actually it does something

Makes applying poisons even worse

Nice

[drifting cosmos]

if it’s not hunter buffs, it’s either mage/locks/ww

Rogues don’t do buffs

[normal mist]

Do we need buffs tho

I mean the casual HC raiding Andy's, the casual 20's Andy's

[gaunt moat]

I'll raise you with another question
Did we really need nerfs?

[normal mist]

I mean, i can't really answer that because even after the nerfs i was #1 on my guild raiding group

[drifting cosmos]

idk haven’t seen a lot of casual 20 sin

[normal mist]

^ i am

[normal mist]

Does this means I'm good? No! They all are pretty bad

[gaunt moat]

That's not indictive of the balance state of the game. That's just telling me your guild mates play with monitors turned off.

[normal mist]

I answered that before hand xD

[verbal mantle]

you really wake up in the morning to do some poor memes about balancing all the time

literally rent free in your mind

weirdge

[subtle tundra]

I can't care about balancing if I'm back to drinking

[gaunt moat]

Stick to copium

[verbal mantle]

notter not complaining about balancing challenge (impossible)

[winter gale]

How excatly do we use Grieftorch/Box combo?

Box with DM and Torch whenever it comes?

[gaunt moat]

@verbal mantle I wish i could be as cool as you, not caring about shit, we're all impressed.

[verbal mantle]

oh ye cause complaining all the time definitely is a proof of caring, totally not being an entitled dimwit

[ebon notch]

i wonder if sin had a ragefire type mechanic that DH has

could be a lot of fun

[normal mist]

I mean, for the majority of players that don't raid mythic, balance rn doesn't mean shit

[verbal mantle]

I care, I just dont flood post about something I literally cant control

[gaunt moat]

feels like i'm the one living rent free in your head. thought your thing was not caring

[verbal mantle]

awk

[subtle tundra]

A what

[verbal mantle]

really projecting yourself on others

[verbal mantle]

Classic

[ebon notch]

storing up your dot crits

into an aoe explosion

[normal mist]

Aka SoD frost gems

[ebon notch]

less rng

cause the hit doesnt crit

and you run an obscene amount of crit on DHs

like close to 50%

[normal mist]

A version of it, more tuned I'd say

[ebon notch]

yeah

[normal mist]

Would be hard to control tho, like the sod version

Hitting in intermissions or immune phases

[hardy dagger]

Well tbf you choose when to hit immo aura

[subtle tundra]

Idk

Assa gameplay is fine

For me

[ebon notch]

varas ur cooked tho

[subtle tundra]

Maybe make Ap it's own abiltiy

Not shiv

[ebon notch]

at least when you played keys

you had real world xp

are you pushing as assa still?

[subtle tundra]

Not playing

Raid logger

[ebon notch]

exactly

[subtle tundra]

I don't have time for m+ unless I sacrifice real life things

And I'm not 20 anymore smh

I'm better than that

I'm 21

[vestal wren]

assassination has a slight problem with talent diversity and button bloat

[normal mist]

Yes that i know, i was talking about an imaginary scenario where assa would have something like that, because we always have our dots up

[royal lantern]

gameplay itself is fine

its more of a frustraition that the spec has no real working aoe for almost 10years now without any real fixes+that the tree feels really bad

[gaunt moat]

Personally I'd be fine with not having strong AoE (though it does need some love)
But for all that's holy, give us 2-3 target cleave that doesn't kill our ST.

[steel ridge]

remove garrote cd, makes 3 target cleave not a pain in the ass

[gaunt moat]

I'm not sure what's the purpose of garrote CD tbh.

[steel ridge]

relic

if you enter combat without stealth, its a huge pain in the ass to get your damage rolling

[ebon notch]

i imagine they'd nerf the damage a bit

if it had 0 cd

[gaunt moat]

I think that's fine, and move some damage to envenom.
wait no, i want more cleave damage

[ebon notch]

cause multidotting just becomes so easy for example in raid

[steel ridge]

easy?

applying one garrote per second isnt exactly efficient compared to things like double clawed rake or fucking thunderclap rend 😄

[gaunt moat]

Garrote is still pretty expensive to cast

[steel ridge]

that on top, its 50 energy

its not like you can go around and garrote all the things

[gaunt moat]

having 0 CD for a 50 energy ability isn't gonna make a lot of difference

[steel ridge]

QoL thats it

[gaunt moat]

so the CD is just kinda weird to have.
I would say a "positive" about it, is that it enforces some skillful play, to plan ahead when to garrote before vanish

[steel ridge]

most of the time it just delays your vanish a few seconds because you refreshed just before, letting it run out is not really an option

[gaunt moat]

But that's my point, you can try to refresh garrote 6 seconds before vanish is up. so there's some skill to it.

But that would be a very weak reasoning of keeping the CD

[steel ridge]

pain in the arse

[gaunt moat]

So like yeah, I do like the gameplay obviously.
But sin has some big gameplay traps.

• Garrote before vanish
• Exsang after DM

[steel ridge]

yep, two easy fixes

remove cd and delete exsang 😄

[gaunt moat]

haha

[raven knoll]

Damn I don't even know why garrote has a CD

[steel ridge]

it has a CD so removing it may be labeled a buff

[raven knoll]

Ah right blizzard will buff anything but assa

[winter gale]

Which setup should I put in sims for Icon?

I can see most ppl playing with HC Torch but my sim suggests Puzzlebox/Icon

Also, how close I need to be for Flaring Cowl to hit?

3-5 yards?

[verbal mantle]

tank + heal + DPS for a raid setting, assuming every role has the icon in your raid

sims over hc guzzler for me too

for flaring cowl idk, I never really pay attention to it and it always does dmg at some point

or see it like, there are many things to play around before imho

[winter gale]

I think its really close melee

Whats its dmg percentage usually?

For me its 1-2% if I remember correctly

[verbal mantle]

around 2% for me, cowl + ring combo

[gaunt moat]

2-3%

[winter gale]

With ring 2-3,y

Then im ok

Is it ok to be on 0-1 charge of Thistle Tea during most of the fight’ length?

I use 1st in opener, 2nd when Im ‘dry’, 3rd very soon after when I dy out again for the 1st time. From there I just use a charge whenever it comes up and I am in need of 100+ energy.

[gaunt moat]

yeah, you use it whenever missing 100 energy.

[winter gale]

And If I can also I should use it before Shiv?

To have energy for that?

[gaunt moat]

Sims show it's best to use shiv on CD. so that's not always gonna align with tea right before shiv.
it's okay to use shiv even on low energy.

you'll get the benefit of applying poisons.

[winter gale]

Ok

Better, less to think of 😂

[thorn fjord]

Servers up

Don’t even want to check my vault

I can’t take the disappointment

[unreal bear]

not what i wanted but i'll take it

with leech poggers

[frigid pilot]

gg

421 ring

[paper wraith]

gl fellas, hope u get my luck 🫡

[unreal bear]

big

i replaced my normal grieftorch so that's nice

still would prefer not to have icon

[thorn fjord]

Think im quitting this game

fucking garbage can hot dog water fucking rng

[oak tangle]

patch has devolved into M+ or bust now i'm at the stage where i log in to kill eranog once a week, then try to learn mistweaver in keys

[gusty mirage]

[oak tangle]

boooooooooooooooooooooon

[thorn fjord]

Nice take the boon

look at this horse shit

[gusty mirage]

for what

[gusty mirage]

why would I take the boon

[thorn fjord]

might feel like doing a key randomly?

[oak tangle]

acidproof is dece

[gusty mirage]

I have a 424 grieftorch and 421 icon

lol

[unreal bear]

boon feels terrible to use

[gusty mirage]

easiest sockets of my life ig

[thorn fjord]

nah it doesnt

[earnest remnant]

wdym, all the Raszageth pad

[gusty mirage]

ez

[unreal bear]

big

[oak tangle]

this makes me cry

[unreal bear]

transmog vault week

[gusty mirage]

[unreal bear]

imagine my disappointment when i finally saw Rogue patch notes

especially for Assassination

and it's just more pvp nerfs

[oak tangle]

there's patch notes

[unreal bear]

yea they just nerfed Hemotoxin

[gusty mirage]

by 5%

[unreal bear]

"We felt that the Healing reduction effect from Hemotoxic was too strong, especially as it is easy to keep applied."

[jade abyss]

How much dmg is cowl + ring?

[onyx linden]

like 2k dps with a 408 ring

[jade abyss]

Thanks :)

[ebon notch]

probs cause in 3s you can run AP and reduce healing on everyone by 30%

[storm belfry]

first vault of gearing up my rogue and got H grieftorch

[unreal coyote]

why does the robot use different opener than the posted?

[gray crest]

Just sectec on sparks 4head

Even though it's filtered out on logs

[spice spire]

real shit

[drowsy creek]

How can assassin be the worst raid DPS? What Happened?

https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonflight-season-1-dps-rankings-week-11-mythic-vault-of-the-incarnates-331599

[outer cairn]

Let's fucking go

[neon kindle]

Mfn seal

Give

[gaunt moat]

It's worst in overall (which is not equal to viability)
But to answer:
Sin has got about 5 nerfs since launch.
While other classes got buffed. Noticiablly hunter.

[thorn fjord]

That fucking Spiteful storm trinket needs to go fuck it self

Its been in my vault 3 weeks in a row

[outer cairn]

I'm like the last one on the team to get one. I think tonight is the last night we are going to start fresh and then going to start locking out so it was either get it today or be screwed

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[outer cairn]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[neon kindle]

Or find a pug since cross realm got opened up

Pugging eranog alot more common now

Although ur chances are low asf in them. At least u still got it

Congrats

[outer cairn]

Well i'd only be able to get heroic because I'd be locked to team's raid

[neon kindle]

Ooohhh crap

U right, guess i forgot how locking worked

I thought only 1 person neeeded to

[thorn fjord]

@outer cairn Give me the ring and nobody gets hurt 🔪

[outer cairn]

its soulbound

[spice spire]

Mythic has a lot of adds

Sin does well slamming boss

That’s kind of

It

[thorn fjord]

Does well slamming boss but is only the 3rd best class at doing so POG

[spice spire]

[thorn fjord]

prob 4th or 5th after 10.7

Living the dream

[spice spire]

[oak sky]

And thats considering that other specs are capable of speccing for aoe without ruining their st

[thorn fjord]

Imagine

[outer cairn]

hitting one button and smacking everything around you? yeah that'd be cool

let the peasants take care of the adds. I'll kill the boss

[wispy iris]

is it weird that my sin currently out sims outlaw in 2T cleave

[royal lantern]

i mean, thats how blizz fixed shadowpriest aoe

"what are we doing?"

"ikd, give it bladeflury"

"oh wow, best aoe in the game now, we are so smart"

bladeflury and its copycats are so bad desinged, ngl

2004ass abilitys

[thorn fjord]

Blizzard replaced their devs with a bunch of possums

[balmy condor]

Not really but when are you ever in 2 target cleave

[wispy iris]

captain kellog

[little light]

when you figthing twins

[strange python]

Kurog has small adds too

[little light]

3rd boss nokhud if you were actually able to hit them for more than 1 sec

xD

[balmy condor]

Kurog also is basically a single target fight now

After add nerfs

[wispy iris]

we progging so omsetimes the add dies slow

[balmy condor]

Thats not your Problem

[royal lantern]

dot the add up, thats it

[drowsy creek]

why not just buff Crimson Tempest?

[royal lantern]

cus then we use ct in singletarget again

and it doesnt fix the assa aoe problem

ct is a horrible ability

[strange python]

Doesn't help that people hate rogues for some reason. General community cheers on Hunter buffs but loses their shit when rogues are strong

[little light]

aoe is not bad, unless the pack is too small, dies too fast or dosnt die fast enough

kekw

[wispy iris]

okay, yeah ive only really played outlaw on the fight so might give sin a go

[royal lantern]

shut up, rogue op, got killed by one in STV 15years ago

[strange python]

Basically

[little light]

community cries a lot about hunter buffs tbh

not like it matters

cause hunters cry louder

[strange python]

Community is cheering on the changes to neltharax but wouldn't be caught dead suggesting edge of night was a problem

[royal lantern]

yeha, but its "hunter is still weak, its not top aoe, buff aoe aswell"

[little light]

sus

just hunters infiltrating

but I think the perception with the rounds of buffs is that its getting out of hand

[drowsy creek]

The problem with hunter to me is lack of defensives, and maybe utility, def not damage

[strange python]

I'm tired of that argument

[little light]

not sure they can give them more utility

[strange python]

BM can cast while moving and ranged players have zero mechanics on most fights.

[royal lantern]

hunter deffensives are not even THAT bad

look at healer Priest, THATS bad deffensives lol

[little light]

bl already big, just that there are better options for bl

rage dispel, not bad ccs actually if 99% bothered to use trap for cc/interrupt

[little light]

if the only way to get hunters invited to keys is making them gods maybe thats not a good solution either

xD

[strange python]

Morons inviting based on MDI meta is never gonna change.

[drowsy creek]

I play healer aswell, and I avoid hunters the most because they die like flies

[little light]

there is a lot of bad hunters

[strange python]

I don't invite druids because they have the largest playerbase and most of them are dogshit. Doesn't mean druids need buffs.

[gaunt moat]

I wonder if realz actually quit.
there's been a lot of talk about blizz employees leaving/searching for other jobs since the RTO announcement

[drowsy creek]

isnt the largest playerbase hunters?

[little light]

sounds about right

[strange python]

It used to be druids. But druids and hunters have always been 1 and 2

Pretty sure rogue is near the bottom with monk

[little light]

rogue is pretty popular I would say

[spice spire]

It is not

[little light]

do we have some numbers somewhere?

even if aprox

[drowsy creek]

Actually I think rogue is not that popular, at least in PvE

You can check in log parses or raider io

[little light]

well pve is a big world also

general population prob is very diferent from raids/m+ etc

[drowsy creek]

Druids were so popular because of gathering bots tho

[royal lantern]

rogue is the most unpopular class in the game

the bottom 3 are rogue, then monk, then warlock, rogue and monk sometimes swap places

[outer cairn]

My RL has already asked me about playing Sub as we start moving past Kurog

[strange niche]

worth playing sin in HoV higher key for boss dmg this week or just stay sub?

[royal lantern]

like, rn its more rogue then monk cus many fotm rollers went rogue early when the class looked broken

and monk overall is mediocre rn

[royal lantern]

rule of thumb: if you need to ask, you dont play on the level where spec choice matters

[spice spire]

Wowanalytica is one but I’d take it with a grain of salt

[vestal wren]

easiest thing to do is probably just to go to wcl and look at the amount of parses

should be fairly easy to know how popular a spec is in raid by the amount of logs

[royal lantern]

that has 0 to do with popularity

warlock is 1 of the classes that sees more play in raids overall

and is a really unpopular class overall

[drowsy creek]

I think the reason is that it not a noob friendly class, very frustrating to learn

[royal lantern]

its just that many raiders go warlock, cus lol warlock is always op in raids

[vestal wren]

idk

i feel like the best way to get popularity is to get statistics from diffrent content types

like raid, mythic plus and pvp

don't think you can argument over "yes but people need to play x for reason y"

[royal lantern]

so, content that is not played by the far majority?

reminder that the normal wow player: gets max lvl, does worldquests and MAYBE does LfR and a random BG

if they feel spicy they do a +4 key

[vestal wren]

i think if people ask for popularity, they do want to know what is played in competitive parts of the game

and not in trivial content

[royal lantern]

well, if we go by that logic, its paladin that is 1 of the worst lol

[vestal wren]

is palandin one of the popualr classes for worldquests or pet battles?

[royal lantern]

yes

[gaunt moat]

Tyran, by that metric, those people play alts of most classes and it doesn't mean anything.
what we're discussing is popularity AT competetive play.

[vestal wren]

i don't see a reason why paladin would be more popular for worldquests

but sure

[royal lantern]

it started with "is rogue is popular" when did it went into competetive play

[vestal wren]

but also

[oak sky]

The default casual goes human paladin

[vestal wren]

just to state this, the majority you talk about

is not reaching max level

so if palandin is more popular for worldquests

[gaunt moat]

it started from talking about invites for m+ and then what's meta etc.

[royal lantern]

nah, its belf paladin lol

[vestal wren]

worldquests are maybe a too small part of the overall

[strange python]

I hate this damn ring

[vestal wren]

what is the most played low level class or to level with might be the one thing thta would decide "popularity"

and i don't think that anyone rly cares about that

[uncut echo]

were add nerfs recent

[balmy condor]

Like 2-3 weeks

[uncut echo]

ah, okay

[storm onyx]

This is simplified rogue btw. fyi

Some of us miss it before the prune/legion in terms of stuff we lost

[royal lantern]

WoD sub

replaced by the SHADOWDANCE SHADOWSTRIKE SHADOWSTRIKE EVISC UNTIL ENEMY DEAD abomination

and insane gloomblade spamm bettwen that

[echo heath]

This is like asking what's popular between a tuna on rye and a corned beef with sauerkraut, they're both great who cares

[strange python]

Tuna sandwiches freak me out

I've seen the price of tuna. How they make it cost $5 in a ball is concerning.

[vestal wren]

longer gaps between shadow dance so you can spam GB - GB - evi more 👍

[ebon notch]

how high is ambush prio btw

[uncut echo]

Rogue is down bad

[ebon notch]

like the procs

obvs keeping bleeds in pandemic is important but

i legit just send them when they come up right

there's nothing to overthink

[strange python]

Ambush shouldn't impact your bleeds at all? Just use it to replace a mut

[uncut echo]

Aren't you r6 overall rn

[ebon notch]

r1

[uncut echo]

you're trolling right

[ebon notch]

[uncut echo]

[ebon notch]

i just wanted to check

cause i dont think about this stuff anymore

and my friend asked me

and i thought about it again

[uncut echo]

i'm like 99% positive it just replaces ambush

[ebon notch]

huh

[royal lantern]

leme have some "old good, new bad" nostalgia

[uncut echo]

sorry

muta

lmfao

[ebon notch]

ye

thats how im playing it

[uncut echo]

yeah I think that's correct

Idk I'm ass at this game

[royal lantern]

we all are ass in this channel

[oak sky]

You judt ambush for mut whenever you get a proc

[ebon notch]

im ass-ass

ye

[vestal wren]

thats what classic servers are for

[royal lantern]

classic

[uncut echo]

i'm considering going back shadow priest

I cannot stand 2 minute sprint on sub

[echo heath]

Don't do it you can grind it out

[uncut echo]

what am I grinding?

[vestal wren]

drop long arms to get it

[echo heath]

Just manifest eviscerate crits

[royal lantern]

[storm onyx]

Tried that ,i could go till lvl 10!, it only cemented the reasons why i dont have any alts. No point of doing same thing again...

[uncut echo]

[vestal wren]

its funny

[uncut echo]

Realz can fix his class tree

[vestal wren]

10.0 - no problem running without acro

10.0.5 - "i can't survive without long arms"

[uncut echo]

It's almost like you didn't have the option to get it, and realize it was too good to pass up

Warlocks get permaburning rush, and we have to have our sprint 100% worse than it was prior bc we need 13 damage nodes

[storm onyx]

Some inconviniences are on purpose, not saying its a good design but its how it is

:/

[strange python]

Ring is an inconvenience. Plz nerf

[echo heath]

Just play ratlaw then and get the sweet grappling hook

[storm onyx]

I want Prep back tbh, not hook

[uncut echo]

Look at any other class and tell me 4 busted talents and literally losing mobility is it is how it is

[storm onyx]

I am not making any comparisons; nor defending anything. Its just some things we complain are on purpose

[little light]

well that would make things even worse

if the friction is there on purpose, cause the purpose would be to make the game worse

xD

[uncut echo]

That's a terrible argument

[oak sky]

I think they should be making us trade utility for other utility

Like if you need better stuns you can talent that, but you sacrifice mobility or defensiveness

But not damage

[little light]

generally that should be the goal, choice to enable a different playstyle, not choice as "how do you want to get punished"

[oak sky]

Because if you have to give up damage then it stops being a choice and you just never get it

[uncut echo]

imagine a reality where the sprint node is reduces sprint from 2 minutes to what it is now

instead of "sprint gains an additional charge"

[static glacier]

imagine a reality where we felt fast

[rotund drift]

wich phial do we want as assa?

glacial fury?

[strange python]

Vers

[thorny pond]

tepid vers is good for all content. There are others like glacial for aoe, etc or the ones with drawbacks

[thorn fjord]

@thorny pond you’re good for all content

[thorny pond]

aww thanks babe

[pseudo hamlet]

Vers Phial > Elemental Chaos for raiding?

[thorn fjord]

Tepid

[steel ridge]

usually yes, its cheaper, more reliable and has defensive value

[dreamy gull]

I spent like 20k gold on elemental chaos cause I thought I needed phials for lfr

[thorn fjord]

All that Lariat money

[steel ridge]

you spent gold on elemental chaos?

[dreamy gull]

Well that's what made me so afraid to spend gold on things now in case I regret it later

[frigid pilot]

wclog website is so trash lately

slow af

[sudden canyon]

does casting puzzlebox kick you from stealth?

[thorn fjord]

Without subterfuge yes

With it no

gg blizz

[thorny pond]

we love this spec

we love this game

I love @thorn fjord

spriest almost raid ready

[thorn fjord]

Same with my DK

Poggers

[thorny pond]

I'll PI you

[steel ridge]

you can pi my feral

[thorny pond]

can PI DN

[thorn fjord]

[steel ridge]

[thorny pond]

bonjourno

[fading rover]

how can i check if adding a slot is better than upgrading my 215 tier pants to 221 is better? (the tier pants added 240 dps so i was thinking the gem slot might be better.)

[steel ridge]

Gear Compare on Raidbots

or Top Gear if its in your vault

[jolly niche]

is it normal to be bottom dps on 18+ ? I mean, i know the spec isn't "good" but i though i would be fine until 20.

[spice spire]

Depends on dps tbh

[thorny pond]

So a lot of factors

What key, what other DPS, how long are things living, are you playing ST or AoE, are you playing correctly, gear.

If you're getting out juiced by a 418 feral, no shame

[balmy condor]

also being "fine until 20" and being bottom dps

are not really the same thing

someone's gotta be on the bottom

[jolly niche]

is just a general feeling. I'm 412 ( if i remember correctly ) but i feel like i'm being under performed

the last dg i did ,was a halls 17 i got 60k overall war 69k and hunter i don't remember

[balmy condor]

yeh that seems fine

[drifting cosmos]

Things die too quickly in lower keys thus your details won’t look too good

Doesn’t mean it’s not fine

[gray crest]

@balmy condor i ended up getting the 424 dagger, and it wasnt cursed with all that other stuff

EZ

[balmy condor]

EZ

I got a 424 grieftorch

I will not be using it

[gray crest]

So it was yours that was cursed then

[drifting cloud]

why not

[balmy condor]

cause I don't wanna and it don't sim higher

I get that it's gonna get resets

but I just cant be fucked frankly

[rancid nimbus]

I like the visual effect it has. looks cool 🙂

[drifting cloud]

youre gonna need it in intermission

also what the fuck sims higher than it

just box + cct?

[keen spruce]

box cct or box incarnate

[balmy condor]

box incarnate

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bvkTvaNkSDssS82jo3jpes

[outer lodge]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[thorny aurora]

Hello! Would someone mind taking a look at that piece of log and explain to me how that person manages to pull so much higher than I do on Sennarth ? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/r1njCyT9HwRdztNK/nyjxdwaA6Y4m2gth#fight=15,5&source=2,Møgzu&type=damage-done&start=5260896,1549211&end=5304637,1592952
I feel like my opener is correct :l

[gusty mirage]

he has better gear than you

[drifting cloud]

something something fake sims for rasz you playing exsang on prog or you gonna cba?

but not playing torch very questionable

[dark token]

imagine looting dagger +eranog ring

cant be me

[gusty mirage]

he has 2 daggers

he's only wearing 1

[balmy condor]

not playing exsang

2/2 ip

me boss dam gamer

[dark token]

just wait for the 8% bm st buff

and they will bench sin

:(

[thorny aurora]

They do 50% more dps with 2ilvl?

[balmy condor]

I'm wearing the second now

[gusty mirage]

you see 2 ilvl

I see 230 more agility

[drifting cloud]

yeah just equip the damn torch then :p timings are silly other than p3 you dont have torch anywhere same time as box anyways

[gusty mirage]

and a lot more sockets

so yes

[balmy condor]

yeah :(

[gusty mirage]

it is only "2 ilvl"

but

it's a lot more than just 2 ilvl

[drifting cloud]

do you knowwhat side youre doing now

[balmy condor]

I was on red, and then told blue

[gusty mirage]

402 pants vs 415 pants, 405 chest vs 421 chest, 415 shoulders vs 421 shoulders

[balmy condor]

and now I guess I'm blue

[gusty mirage]

etc etc

that's a lot of primary stat

[drifting cloud]

yeah on blue its probably even more important to have torch esp if you dont have a dh from my xp

[rich vine]

i kill diurna seven times, no daggers

[dark token]

blue is way better side

[dark token]

eh

we didnt have enough torches to 1shot the add

and the shield was nerfed by 20%

its fine now

[drifting cloud]

you also had 400 wipes

so you know

[dark token]

350

[magic vine]

5 more sockets for the other guy too

[dark token]

but the shield nerf is big now

[thorny aurora]

@gusty mirage i'm a bit surprised that a couple sockets and some agi makes a 50% difference

like 100k vs 150k feels way too huge of a difference