assassination

[royal lantern]

so its like, 1,5energy each second for 10% haste

H A S T E E N E R G V A L U E

[tiny finch]

lol

[royal lantern]

the only gearing stat you can feel is crit

[jade abyss]

Ah crit bl would be pog

[gritty dagger]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[thorn crater]

the only trinket drop i have seen since m+ released is the puzzlebox XD

i havent got another trinket in 2 months

lmfao

im using a normal dathea trinket i got from a box XD

time to farm 2s for trinkets and upgrade them lol

[gaunt moat]

Me after reading all these warlock changes on PTR

[thorn crater]

uhm has anyone else got all their UI reset after the weekly reset?

ive lost all saves

[balmy condor]

I lost my details save

but that was because of an update

[thorn crater]

literally lost all general settings (ui, macros hotkeys)

everything that wasnt character specific is gone

and i was saving all my characters' macros on general cause not enough slots on each char

im literally speechless

[grim jay]

Isnt all that stuff in that one folder aswell?

[thorn crater]

uhm what folder

[grim jay]

I always have a copy of it

[thorn crater]

i have a general wtf folder

but that aint it

cause my ui is blizz basic i dont use any addons to modify it

[grim jay]

There is an interface folder, no ?

[thorn crater]

yes the wtf thing in there

i see the folder

same things in it as always

but those things are... gone

[grim jay]

Kinda expected those things to be there aswell

Thats kinda sucky

[thorn crater]

like, every macro i have ever had since tbc was in there

i dont remember everything i had in there

the ui is saveable thankfully because i had saved an alternate version with basically almost everything the same on my priest but

[orchid tree]

How can I up my parses? I’m usually between 50-70. Does overlapping bleeds mess up parses?

[gaunt moat]

If you mean reapplying bleeds too early, then yeah

[orchid tree]

Ok I need to work on that

Thank you

[grim jay]

Use wowanalyzer to get a basic understanding of your mistakes

[orchid tree]

I tried

No one has started it for rogue

Every other class has it setup but rogue lol

[gaunt moat]

@orchid tree
My advice would be to use WAs that show you when bleeds are in pandemic range.
That's the easiest way to know when to apply bleeds

[grim jay]

It has initial Support for sin usually

[gaunt moat]

Check pins

[orchid tree]

I’m not at my computer, but I watched a video on pandemic range. I’ll definitely use WoW analyzer when I get home too. Should I be spamming envenom or is there a pandemic range on that? Sorry for any dumb questions

[lament pawn]

I should always listen to the sims regarding gems and enchants right

[balmy condor]

yes

[balmy condor]

envenom is your dump

it does pandemic

[subtle tundra]

i have a dumpy too ;3

[balmy condor]

but the uptime is already so fucking high

that there's nothing really to play around there

[orchid tree]

Should I be allowing my self to auto attack more in between abilities?

[balmy condor]

what

[subtle tundra]

huh

what the fuck did i just read

[balmy condor]

your character always auto attacks

[grim jay]

You telling me he has 4 arms to do all the stuff at the same time?

[orchid tree]

Like if I’m just spamming envenom and I getting autos off?

[balmy condor]

yes

[grim jay]

Yes

[balmy condor]

abilities don't interrupt auto attacks

And even if they did, how would that even work

You’re still spending the same amount of gcds

As Long as you aren’t wasting energy

[jade abyss]

Male character are hit with a other arm

[grim jay]

There would be some verboten tech with canceling AA animation while it still does dmg

[balmy condor]

Actually I’m pretty sure you can’t animation cancel autos

[orchid tree]

Yeah, it was a dumb question… Makes sense if you come from eso to wow though lol. Guess I never really though about it until I asked about it 💀

[grim jay]

Doesnt the skill animation always overwrite AA animations? I actually never looked that close

[balmy condor]

Yeah but the damage isn’t attached to the animation

So it’s whatever

[grim jay]

Yeah it was just theoretical bs

If it was

[balmy condor]

Yeah okay, so if they changed how animations worked and how autos and skills did damage in a way that would cause animation cancelling, then yeah, verboten animation canceling

[grim jay]

I think there is a game where thats a thing actually

[balmy condor]

Yes, maplestory

[grim jay]

Dont remember which tho

[balmy condor]

[grim jay]

That cant be the game I meant because I never touched that cursed game

You could animation cancel in metin2

[subtle tundra]

dont remind me

[grim jay]

How much fun we had

How many hours we grinded

[subtle tundra]

molded the man i have become

[grim jay]

How bad of a game it actually was

[balmy condor]

They go fucking crazy bro, one of the thieves has an animation cancel, and they put recommended windows keyboard settings In their faq

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/268366812612263937/1069489586436317244/caption.gif

[grim jay]

Eh

I guess

Why dont we add recommended windows settings aswell

[balmy condor]

Cause I would rather die

[grim jay]

Couldnt wait to have Hardware acceleration discussions in the specchannel

"It brought my raidfps from 72 all the way to 75!1111"

[balmy condor]

We already have that

[quasi pine]

imagine overclocking something to play wow

[balmy condor]

It’s call spell queue window

[quasi pine]

wouldnt be me

[spice spire]

Mfs really overclocking for WoW but still no bitches

Unreal

[peak bobcat]

[quasi pine]

"mfs" implies that the person you talk about infact has bitches

[spice spire]

FUCK

[grim jay]

I realized something.
Spell queue window
Simbait
Scaling
Its a pattern

[balmy condor]

They say I’m overclocking cause I got bitches 25 hours a day bruh

[quasi pine]

[spice spire]

Ur overclocking this time of day cuz ur cooked king

3 hour of sleep looking mf

[quasi pine]

try overclocking the shower then

[jade abyss]

Mapplestory is that animegame 🤔

[balmy condor]

It’s not weeb shit, because it’s Korean

That makes it okay

[elfin crystal]

so exsang is getting reworked right

[spice spire]

Koreaboo

[quasi pine]

ex getting reworked for 10.2 for sure this time

[balmy condor]

sweats in my blackpink x maplestory collab transmog

[grim jay]

12.1 exs rework

[balmy condor]

You think I’m kidding

Mf got the drip

[spice spire]

[grim jay]

[royal lantern]

ESO has bigtime animation cancle aswell

[grim jay]

Did you buy the pink cape in this months TP ?

If so, I expect a good mogg with that

[balmy condor]

No :(

[royal lantern]

whisp is more of a Purple guy imo

[balmy condor]

Red and purple my favorite colors

[spice spire]

Figured blue would be

Til

[balmy condor]

I’ve been liking blues a lot more recently

I’ve been adventuring from red into blue through purple ya feel

Riding the gradient

My girlfriend has me enjoying greens a lot too

I got some olive green skinny jeans

Those are nice

Olive green is cool

Only colors I don’t fuck with are yellow and orange tbh

Never seen someone wear orange and look good

Or like an orange wall in your house

Or an orange carpet

Orange shoes

Nothing is pleasing when it’s orange bruh it’s unreal

[sour wraith]

Orange cars?

[royal lantern]

orange is not a color for cloths

[grim jay]

Had my breaks changed and there was someone with orange breaks on his blue car

[royal lantern]

foxes?

[grim jay]

[balmy condor]

Yeh I guess

[balmy condor]

Fugly as hell bruh

[sour wraith]

Matter of preference I suppose

[balmy condor]

If I want a car, I’m not trying to buy some hotwheels plaything

Orange cars look like they’re straight out of a happy meal

[spice spire]

[grim jay]

Valid take

I only would have wild stuff on supercars actually

If at all

[magic vine]

depends a lot on the exact tone and stuff, but generally when people put orange on a car they go for a certain shade that catches the eye, and hotwheels and such do the same

[keen spruce]

even if it looks okay on some cars

those cars always look better in other colors

[gusty mirage]

What color is your Bugatti?

[grim jay]

Babyblue

Didnt he show you ?

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/no-let-me-think-nope-no-way-hmm-no-gif-22904160

[keen spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/katze-cat-hasenohren-bunny-ears-gif-24097339

[drifting light]

whats good

rng gods have blessed me this patch

[subtle tundra]

I'm fine wby

Babygirl

[torpid sparrow]

bro i got useless vaults after useless vaults and then this

[drifting light]

Yea, got back from work, opened some vault thingy, got a torch out of it, doing fine

[torpid sparrow]

i need the 4 items wtf do i do xD

[drifting light]

Box easily

or not, idk

not sure what are you wearing

in game ofc

[torpid sparrow]

418/415 dagger,405 gloves,415 box, and i got 408 incarnate/415box/415 wetstone

i cant decide between dagger and torch 😢

[drifting light]

why not box huh, there is a higher chance to get a torch than 421 box

also one is bis, the other 2 are temporary if you raid

dont know if u do

[strange python]

That seems like an incredibly easy choice lmao. Box is a higher ilvl and you can't get it at 421 any other way. Grieftorch at 411 isn't even better than icon at 421 or CCT at 421

[drifting light]

yee

[strange python]

We haven't seen eranog ring in 7 weeks 🙂

[drifting light]

unlucky bro

[limpid ermine]

time to work on that mog 😉

[strange python]

Have any of the greens or oranges actually heard from realz

Cause complete silence on the state of sin atm is cringe

[drifting light]

Naaah, its good the way it is

[onyx crane]

assa has too many buttons now!

[green juniper]

doesnt seem good

[balmy condor]

Gz on 421 tier hands I guess

[storm forum]

Don't you wanna raise a big strong dragon?

[green juniper]

have grieftorch and box and yeah simming but its most likely the hands mine are 402

[storm forum]

Def the hands unless ur a roleplayer

[green juniper]

never 421 eranog's ring....

[storm forum]

When does cross realm mythic open?

Cause I'm not getting a 421 ring until that opens lmao

[green juniper]

I thought it was today

[storm forum]

Pog

[keen spruce]

it's out

right meow

[storm forum]

I guess I'm doing that this weekend

Or I could just play more maplestory

[onyx crane]

or you could play Yakuza 0

[brazen nimbus]

Anyone got a video/clip of the new raz push ?

[royal lantern]

i mean, until you rember torch death resets

like, saying torch and icon are equal is a bit weird, when torch gains insane value if even 1guy dies

[paper wraith]

I've been hunting the ring from CoS for a few weeks now with no dice lol. Is it still the BiS ring or is there another one I should be looking for? (I already have the seal)

[limpid ermine]

I mean unfortunately bis is bis, but I am sure another crit/x ring would suffice. Hope you see it soon!

[paper wraith]

Lol thank you!!

[gleaming geyser]

you lucky sob

ive had to take socket-punch 4 times by now

[thorn fjord]

This the type of vault or ench shammy keeps getting and it induces so much rage in my heart

[outer cairn]

disgusting

lol

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[thorny pond]

despite all your rage

[viscid spear]

[green juniper]

after doing 3 +2 mythics I am quitting spamming valors

its pretty boring

[viscid spear]

I still need to upgrade my Skovald trinket, but yeah it's tiresome

[outer cairn]

i need to do 16s anyways to get a concentrated infusion so might as well

[viscid spear]

What're you looking to make/recraft?

[outer cairn]

according to the droptimizer, it says that making a 418 cloak is my first priority. Been hurting for one bad. Had a 398 still until last night

[past grove]

Do you use puzzle box after Exsanguinate or on pull? I have to go assa on diurna mythic

[outer cairn]

after ER, then rupture, vanish, garrote, exsang, dm

well

proposed

but then i watched whispyr last night not follow his own open so o.O

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/capybara-okay-and-who-asked-capy-gif-23030222

[outer cairn]

And use it whenever. I subbed to you last night

[balmy condor]

Discord search function is powerful, search from:whispyr “doesn’t matter”

99% of those hits are me telling people to stop giving a fuck about puzzle box

[outer cairn]

lol

the ppl demand an answer

[past grove]

I mean I just asked cause I only play outlaw and they want me strictly on boss so

But thanks

[outer cairn]

its so ingrained in me to use it after ER i'd probably screw it up if I tried to do it anywhere else. the open is in the FAQ though if you want to study it

[balmy condor]

Most real changelog I’ve ever written

[past grove]

Aight, thanks!

[echo cargo]

@balmy condor any pro tips for Diurna

[balmy condor]

Don’t fall asleep

[past grove]

It´s boring AF

I feel like outlaw is more useful on adds then assa on boss but ye

[balmy condor]

You just hit a target dummy for 9 minutes and stare at your feet

[past grove]

hahaha

[balmy condor]

If anything comes near your feet that’s blue or red, you move

Otherwise you continue to hit the target dummy

That’s all of diurna

[outer cairn]

fax

no printer

[balmy condor]

I’m also soaking every p2 tank slam with feint

But it’s not needed tbh

I Just do it cause I’m scared of our offtank

[limber charm]

Find a great playlist

[royal lantern]

everyone is scared of the tanks

tank players should not be inside raids

animals with less then 3 working braincells

[viscid spear]

[strange python]

So are we really going to go into 10.7 with no rogue changes?

[dawn merlin]

seems like it

[subtle tundra]

I think 10 0 7 is still a bit away

[strange python]

I'd bet second week of March

But they would presumably have at least early notes for anything they're balancing

[raven knoll]

Dont worry they will find a reason to buff outlaw somehow

[outer cairn]

right

[subtle tundra]

Sub is petty close in survivability to outlaw therefore they need to buff outlaw a bit

Also they lose dmg in spiteful weeks cause they can't restealth so I think buffing their st to compensate is appropriate

Just their st, not their aoe ofc

No blade flurry buffs

[raven knoll]

Tanks are really close now TBH, so warrior is not that broken. That means outlaw will not have battle shout that asks for 5% aura buff

[subtle tundra]

Also their are not meta anymore so actually bf should be 65%

So they are meta in m+

[onyx crane]

https://tenor.com/view/hpw-vt-itdoesntmatter-rock-laptop-gif-21892958

[echo geyser]

do ppl actually play exsang on raz mythic

nvm checked logs

82%

[static glacier]

you can be one of the 18%

[royal lantern]

82% play it, or DONT play it?

[echo geyser]

play it i guess

39% play blackjack

[royal lantern]

cus they copy paste a build

[static glacier]

I don't play exsang

🙂

it is better to play tho

[echo heath]

I don't get the weirdness people have with exsang

[onyx crane]

if it's more comfortable for you to play without and don't do hard pushing it's fine to do without, right?

it's an extra button that does stuff

[vestal wren]

how does the % spread work

[static glacier]

for me I just don't like playing it and the dmg is close enough that im willing to sacrifice 1k dps for enjoyment, not like im top 100 or anything anyway, if raz shields need exsang i can always talent it

[vestal wren]

why is exsang 82% and shrouded 96%, when there is no other node without 100%

[echo geyser]

yeah thats the real question

very weird

probably bugged

idk

[static glacier]

people might drop shrouded for more zoldyck's

[echo geyser]

maybe its all mixed up

[vestal wren]

oh true

[static glacier]

since 100% could mean 1,2 or 3 points

[vestal wren]

it could not consider ranks

[echo geyser]

must be yes

[magic vine]

blackjacks in the default raid build, since it lets you get master poisoner and still go down the tree

[echo geyser]

weird how its only 39% then

lmao

[magic vine]

other people dropping mp for vials/tricks looks like

[echo geyser]

double rogue can drop MP i suppose

and atrophic for numbing

[magic vine]

i haven't thought about it, but in intermission 1 you might be able to blind something to get the blackjack reduction? not huge but not nothing

[vestal wren]

i think its just that gouge is not as appealing

so people are more open to take different paths

[magic vine]

yea gouge is also useless, so its just a "1 point to get down both paths instead of 2" deal

[storm onyx]

We have 3 hunters, it lets me go down by 1 point on both paths and skip tricks too, is cool

[royal lantern]

you act as if tricks is some crucial ability lol

[grim tangle]

we've had many people die to aggro in intermission

[storm onyx]

we have suicidals as well

[drifting cloud]

assa big threat from tricks

[echo cargo]

Brother I have the best playlists

[strange python]

Not playing sub on it feels troll at this point

For prog at least

[dawn kelp]

Nah fam exang on raz is giga

[lost sentinel]

when did kingsbane build become bad? the last talent changes?

[spice spire]

Yes

Kb path was juice the ability itself was always worse than DTB

And now that they’re a house node it’s pretty obvious which to take

[magic eagle]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[thorny pond]

I miss KB juice

[spice spire]

I miss u(s)

[thorny pond]

stay woke

[spice spire]

[rugged jewel]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[rugged jewel]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[vestal wren]

#off-topic

[sand sigil]

question for any geniuses. anyone know if u did a 2 min patchwerk and lusted on pull, would it be more dps to send cds w/ lust everything on pull, or send cds when boss goes into execute at like 1m 30s or whenever it is without lust

[royal lantern]

i mean

just set your sim into that.....?

[sand sigil]

alright whats the custom code then to push ur potion and major cds back to the point when boss hits execute then hotrod

[empty tangle]

What poision should i use in mythic+, raid and pvp?

[spice spire]

Conventional wisdom would say the big dam at lust is probably better, that being said. I’m on mobile so running APL changes that I’m already pretty bad at doing isn’t ideal. Gonna @balmy condor for when he wakes up

[spice spire]

If you’re using DTB it’ll always be amplifying and deadly for PvE

[empty tangle]

Thanks!

[strange python]

Do we need a buff?

[vestal wren]

we take every buff we can get

but rogue is in a okay spot

[dawn kelp]

Sin rogue needs a buff

[sour wraith]

Would it not just be better to hold lust until execute at that point too, or is that not an option

[nocturne current]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[spice spire]

I don’t think the raid will play around your execute. Unless this is a hyper chill one

[oblique jackal]

My Sub ST sim is higher than my sin sim

so weird

[sand sigil]

not an option

[grim tangle]

think of the poor evokers

[tawny barn]

ruby whelp trinket, whats the verdict

got it in vault 421 wonder if worth over puzzle/whispering

[oblique jackal]

for sin?

[tawny barn]

ye

[west nymph]

I think its not even close to puzzle / torch combo

[tawny barn]

sims says no but noty sure if it works properly

[oblique jackal]

torch/puzzle

[tiny root]

Hey all - I just got a puzzle box and I want to make sure I’m understanding the FAQ page correctly. Should I hold the puzzle box to sync with deathmark?

I unfortunately dont have a grieftorch yet! I’m using controlled technique and have a 415 horn and whetstone

[frigid pilot]

DAT EXSANG NERF DOU

AYO, ROGUES R CRUSHIN M0s, blizz HELP

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-phone-call-hi-on-the-phone-gif-16181524

[plucky cargo]

Do we apply crimson tempest on single target as well?

[nocturne pelican]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[distant mesa]

rogue vault >.<

[viscid spear]

me leveling my Priest rn

[storm forum]

if you are using amp poison you don't. if you don't have amp poison, you can CT on ST outside of shiv although last time whispyr or someone talked about it, it was like a <1% gain over just ignoring it

[frigid pilot]

unnerfable

blizz cant nerf every class

[storm forum]

fellow ranged DoT enjoyers

[distant mesa]

did they nerf Exsang further?

[viscid spear]

I'm only leveling priest to heal, but it seems Shadow is juicy rn

[plucky cargo]

Thank you!

[ebon notch]

send on pull with lust 100P

going all in on that one

we dont do enough execute (i think)

[safe barn]

imagine playing male belf

[viscid spear]

Imagine gendering pixels

[rain mortar]

where do we use Puzzle box in non exan opener?

[keen spruce]

it's all covered in the #assassination-faq in the Rotation section

there's a trinket usage part that explains it all

[rain mortar]

ah okay its just not listed in the opener section for non exang but is listed for w/ exang so i was confused

[sour wraith]

well at 2 min it'd be playing around everyone's dps (besides non-execute classes but at a 2 min fight it shouldn't matter when cds are sent)...but since it's not an option it's pretty moot ig

[royal lantern]

i mean, if it is a 2min fight, you probably dont need to play around anything lol

[balmy condor]

It’s a lot worse without exsang

So it doesn’t really need an explicit call-out, even less important

[cerulean walrus]

Go get your mail

[wicked quartz]

Does exsang work with bone spike? Tooltip implies it should

[balmy condor]

Nope

It did on a ptr build in shadowlands and people just casted it over and over and over since it’s an infinite dot

And the tick rates crashed the world servers in bastion where they were testing on a world boss

They quickly fixed that

[raw raft]

no enhance for reclear/ Raz prog this week

[rapid stratus]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[burnt venture]

No Exsang rework in 10.0.7 sadge

[willow tendon]

Wait so is puzzlebox not good without exang or is it still worth it to use over other trinkets?

[oblique jackal]

Anyone else Sin ST less than Subs?

[tough gorge]

In my mythic+ spec yes. Raid ST spec my sin is a little ahead.

[keen raven]

Does crippling poison give any energy back or is it okay to take it off if its not needed

[keen spruce]

it's good without exang, it's just much better with exang

[willow tendon]

Is it because you get extra dot ticks with the puzzlebox stats since you apply a new dot before it ends because of first dots ending fast with exang?

[robust mantle]

You guys running Exsanguinate on kurog?

[keen spruce]

just exang is fast bleeds, + deathmark is 2x fast bleeds, +puzzle is big mastery buffed on 2x fast bleeds

just generally always better to overlap modifiers and CDs

[woeful meteor]

yes

[willow tendon]

Got it, thanks for explaining!

[royal lantern]

🤓 AKSHUALY, its 80% faster, not Double 🤓

[shrewd night]

Cant believe you did him like that

[keen spruce]

AKSHUALY i didn't say it goes twice is fast

🤓

I said deathmark makes 2 of them

https://tenor.com/view/castro1021-castro-stoopid-stupid-6ix9ine-gif-15481697

[shrewd night]

No way!

Schmeeps, how long do you want Tryan gone for

[keen spruce]

spare him

https://tenor.com/view/cause-youre-not-gonna-change-him-you-cant-change-him-cant-do-anything-about-him-jon-taffer-marriage-rescue-gif-14384589

[shrewd night]

https://tenor.com/view/gotc671-go-tc-gif-19666133

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-fall-fall-cat-cat-falls-cat-dies-gif-23805510

[summer briar]

my current gear forces me to go assassin , and I'm wondering, we are progressing Dathea ATM on mythic , i see a big 50/50 on on taking Exsanguinate or not , what situations are the best to take it vs not , im currently running 421 Box and 421 Controlled trinkets , i have a boon but its a 398 Normal one . been told from raid lead to focus on ST dmg for the boss since we are lacking it . (418 ilv Rogue)

[royal lantern]

how is your gear forcing you into assa wtf

[summer briar]

trinkets more or less and being told to play it

[royal lantern]

i mean, based Raidlead then

[summer briar]

poteto potato

[royal lantern]

and you always take exsang

its just that exsang is so deeply hated, that many people just dont take it cus of that alone

[summer briar]

when using exsang then with box, the initial opener for me is okai, but how do u line up cds after the opener then

[keen spruce]

i wish my RL would make me play assas on dathea

you hold for 4min

[summer briar]

do you trow out deathmark on cd on second, and then hold exsang for the 3th deathmark ?

[keen spruce]

box and exang

[royal lantern]

if possible, you hold box and exsang for dm always

[keen spruce]

easiest way to play it and even if you miss an exang cast it's not going to hurt you too much

cuz exang w/o deathmark is cheeks

[summer briar]

so always box and exsang, but do i hold exsang for deathmark , or deathmark for exsang after initial opener

[royal lantern]

you use dm on cd and hold exsang and box for dm

dm is the high impact main cd

[summer briar]

im on second platform, so for me i open with opener, and then ill have trinket and exsang up after iv been to platforms (45%) ish on boss

[keen spruce]

wait you're doin platforms and forced to play assas?

wot in tarnation

[karmic crystal]

Whoever is forcing you to do that better be paying your sub and extra

Tell them to never talk to you again

[short token]

Wait your raid lead makes you play assass on dathea? Damn I’m just the opposite

Have to play law

[summer briar]

we have so much cleave/aoe that we lack dmg on boss

[short token]

But juicy assass on brood

Yeah I hear ya

[summer briar]

2 mages,2 locks, 3 boomies

[karmic crystal]

Then don’t go platform

If you are playing assassination

[summer briar]

yeah im gonna argue about that on monday

[karmic crystal]

There’s 0 point

Just play what you want to play

Don’t argue

If they wanna argue about it you shouldn’t be playing with them

[summer briar]

i dont mean to argue , but im gonna talk my case about me going platform is waste

if they want me to play assassin

[keen spruce]

then why not just keep you off the platforms and just blast the boss in single target?

if you guys are flush with cleave then you're not doin anything up there anyways

[shrewd night]

!log

[prisma monolith]

Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage

Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/

[opaque sparrow]

I´m in the same situation because we need the mass silence from IC+Iron Wire to group the adds on the platform lol

[shrewd night]

Some of us have cursed assignments

We dont technically me up there, but I just do as Im told

[royal lantern]

just following orders

[shrewd night]

At least I have an excuse for bad parsing

[balmy condor]

Being Norwegian isn’t an excuse

[shrewd night]

No, its a reason.

[balmy condor]

+50% snow
-30% parses
+10 kjøttkaker

[shrewd night]

[royal lantern]

jokes on you, my parses are good

plottwist:im 4/8m rn

[nocturne pelican]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[limpid moth]

does FUU still update the spreadsheet? seems he may have taken a wow break

[balmy condor]

yeah, he's still around

just ain't nothing to update

me and him updated our sheets for 10.0.5

and that was kinda that

[pastel onyx]

just mention sub in the chat

he will appear behind u

[royal lantern]

you mean: sub rupture should not do more dmg than the dot dmg spec rupture, and why has it a free dot spread

[grim jay]

The spread is debatable

Rup dealing more dmg for sub makes perfect sense

[marble hemlock]

It really doesn't

[grim jay]

It really does

Sub is a Finisher spec based on mastery

Rupture is a finisher

[marble hemlock]

Assa is a bleed spec based on mastery

????

With multiple talents and cooldowns improving bleed damage

[grim jay]

Just because sin is a bleed spec doesnt mean the one skill should deal more damage, bleeds are multiple dots

[royal lantern]

my Job is done, i started the discussion

[grim jay]

Not just one

[marble hemlock]

Sub is a finisher spec, yes, with no rupture talents

[pastel onyx]

[marble hemlock]

All it's finishers deal more damage already. Why does the one finisher it shares with another spec that is entirely tailored around that specific type of finisher also have up be better?

Makes zero sense

[grim jay]

Start a second one with snd

[marble hemlock]

Just because subtlety is a finisher spec doesn't mean the one skill should deal more damage, finishers are multiple DPS sources

[royal lantern]

when asssa has a mastery that improves poison/bleed dmg, multiple talents that improve bleed dmg, a cd that doubles all your dots, and its main gameplay loop is based around maintaining those bleeds

the bleed should maybe not do less dmg then the spec that also has a free bleed cleave for some reason 🙂

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/hmm-hmmmm-brain-the-doing-gif-25964586

[pastel onyx]

[balmy condor]

just because sin is a bleed spec doesn't mean the one bleed finisher should do more damage

[royal lantern]

SnD bad and has no place in the game, but no urgent problem, other stuff should be fixed or adjusted first 🙂

[balmy condor]

yes hm hm

very good

such logic

[pastel onyx]

can apply to any multiple dps spec class

like fire mage for example

xd

[balmy condor]

yeah just because fire mage is a fire spec doesn't mean it should do the most damage with fireball

that would be silly

lets make frost do the most damage with fireball

[pastel onyx]

[balmy condor]

demonology is a demon summoning spec, but that doesn't mean it should do the most damage with tyrant

I think destro should do the most tyrant damage

it's called "destruction"

that's metal as fuck

I want to destroy things

man I fucking love this logic

[pastel onyx]

its just diff types of destruction

[balmy condor]

this is great stuff

I need to start using this in my daily life

[grim jay]

Dunno, you literally have 3 finishers as sub, 4 with sectec. Thats as far as finishers go. Sin has bleeds + poisons spread across more spells and basically every skill is part of that. Considering rupture falls under the category of both specs, I think its fine

[royal lantern]

watching the sub rogue rupture do more dmg on terros then my rupture, when i play the spec that has its major cd double my dots, and exsang wich causes more dot ticks over the fight, and like 40% of my talents are based around making bleeds stronger is fine

[marble hemlock]

???????

I cant

[pastel onyx]

[balmy condor]

I'm allergic to peanuts, but that doesn't mean my dad can't cook me dinner with peanuts

he's not allergic

[pastel onyx]

[balmy condor]

he's the one cooking

not me

[marble hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-berg-cat-orange-cat-swimming-gif-25177582

[balmy condor]

holy

the versatility of this logic

actually just expanded my brain

[pastel onyx]

I think they should rework assa so it deals more

shadow dmg

[marble hemlock]

mastery, not versatility

[pastel onyx]

[balmy condor]

I think we should do more damage from stealth

sub is the stealth spec with dance

but we have dance on the class tree

[trail tree]

this is it, the madness of whispyr

[balmy condor]

why can't assassination just do stealth damage

[royal lantern]

^

[balmy condor]

my minds eye opens

[little light]

and just afk on spiteful week

kekw

[royal lantern]

assa should be able to use sinester strike better than outlaw tbh

[pastel onyx]

ye its just diff form of assassinating

enemies

fair

[balmy condor]

yeah

very cool

I think we should get pistol shot

assassinations usually involve guns

just look at JFK

he got shot

died pretty quick

[little light]

just a gun that fires daggers, ez

[royal lantern]

[little light]

fantasy fixed

[royal lantern]

POISONED daggers

[balmy condor]

the power of this argument is unmatched

I can literally just make shit up

[pastel onyx]

with expanding bullets so it applies more bleeds

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/JzpfK/9e8276b3da.jpg

is all i have to say on the matter

[little light]

I mean you would apply bleeds faster if you had a machinegun that much is true

[royal lantern]

no, thats the finisher, so sub does that one

[balmy condor]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/924436307202174976/1074698546936299520/bongosub.gif

[pastel onyx]

ok i am saving this one

[grim jay]

So blizz changes rupture to nightblade on sub while keeping the damage, then you are fine with it ?

[balmy condor]

god bless amen

[balmy condor]

no?

[marble hemlock]

It's still a DoT spell, which is what Assassination specializes in it.

If you lose your thumb, would you like to have it re-attached by someone who specializes in microsurgery and digit replantation, or someone who simply specializes in all kinds of surgery? It's a surgery after all, clearly the general surgeon should be just as good if not better as the one that specifically trained and talented for that specific type of damage.

[nocturne pelican]

after the vanish should i use garrote or deathmark?

[balmy condor]

garrote

deathmark from stealth does nothing

[pastel onyx]

[royal lantern]

your enemy didnt saw it comming

[balmy condor]

potent

confuse the boss

[pastel onyx]

open with exsanguinate

[balmy condor]

can you cast exsanguinate with no bleeds on the target

I've never been stupid enough to try

[marble hemlock]

All of subs finishers already deal more damage than any other spec, which is exactly what it should do. The argument is simply, whether it should also do more damage with the one finisher type another spec fully specializes in with its mastery enhancing it, half a dozen talents that affect it, and it being one of 3 finishers you use when, as you said, sub has 4 and is better with 3 of them.

[pastel onyx]

prob yes

[marble hemlock]

On singletarget Assa even only has 2 finishers. Sub is better with one of those 2.

Does that make sense to you?

[little light]

when I read about other specs my mind disconnects, I might be sick xd

[pastel onyx]

Give bp to assas, and make it deadl more dmg than for sub

[little light]

I would take shadow technique tho, the name is cool

[balmy condor]

I mean it would make sense, if sub had crimson tempest, it would be stronger

so we should get eviscerate and black powder

and have that be stronger

WHY CANT I HAVE A SECRET TECHNIQUE

[pastel onyx]

we should get a talent that changes part of our dmg to shadow

and amps it

[royal lantern]

if sub had envenom, it would be stronger aswell 🙂

[pastel onyx]

on assas

[balmy condor]

ASSASSINS CAN HAVE A TECHNIQUE

[little light]

a technique to assassinate

a shadow technique

[pastel onyx]

just rename it to blood technique

and slap

it

in

[little light]

F tier Technique

pog

[balmy condor]

this conversation has given me multiple incurable diseases

thanks

I had fun

[little light]

dont lose hope, there might be a cure

[royal lantern]

just cloak them

[marble hemlock]

idk

i dont even want the shit sub has

http://puu.sh/JzphW/7a51ca27b7.jpg

[hardy dagger]

Rupture actually dealing dmg as sub is neat

[marble hemlock]

i just want this

[shrewd night]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-drama-discord-typing-typing-fast-fast-typing-gif-26306052

[royal lantern]

wdym, we have that

as a capstone with 45sec cd

[marble hemlock]

imagine having free rupture/garrote spread as your first 2 talents. must be nice.

[grim jay]

You literally say specific type of damage, which is the whole point. Sin deals more damage with bleeds and poisons, just not rupture which falls under the category of finishers aswell.
If you take terros and the best sin + best sub log the rupture damage isnt far apart while also considering a good bit if rupture damage is on DM
I get where you are coming from but I just dont see it as a huge problem since it falls under both categories.

I 100% agree it should be easier to spread rupture as sin tho

[hardy dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/adam-sandler-holy-shit-im-gonna-cum-uncut-gems-howard-ratner-gif-16259390

[balmy condor]

okay but feral is a cat, and cats are primal, and assassination isn't primal, but if you think about it, killing things is a very primal thing for humans, so it makes sense for assassination, the act of killing something, to get primal wrath, and I think it should do 300% more damage, because we've been trained in assassinating and killing things. @grim jay you get it right?

[marble hemlock]

Ofc you don't see it as a huge problem. You're not affected by it. If I make a million dollars a month, I don't see food shortages and rising prices for electricity and rent as a huge problem either. Cause it wouldn't affect me.

[grim jay]

I mainly play sin in raid tho

So how am I not affected

[marble hemlock]

The fact that, even on single target, the spec that has 6+ talents boosting bleed damage STILL gets out-damaged on one of its 3 core skills, is fucking pathetic.

[shrewd night]

Man, Id be kinda pissed if I went to 10 years of school for brainsurgery, got a phd within the field, several papers published.. But a plumber outshines me in my field.

Imagine that.

[marble hemlock]

How many rupture damage enhancing talents does Sub have again?

"BUT MUH MASTERY"

[grim jay]

The field is bleeds, not dealing more dmg with a finisher bleed

[marble hemlock]

We share that. So if it was just mastery, it should be even. But its not.

[hardy dagger]

Well tbf dance buffs rup

[marble hemlock]

When one spec has 8 things improving a skill, and another has 2, then the spec that has 2 should not be better at it. Its that fucking simple

[balmy condor]

the brain rot needed to think sub doing more damage with a dot than the spec whose entire identity is dot damage probably makes you incapable of recognizing the problem to be fair

[royal lantern]

meanwhile assa is stacking its MORE BLEED AND POISON DMG MASTERY aswell 🙂

[shrewd night]

Dont worry

We will scale in two tiers

[balmy condor]

I hate you

[shrewd night]

[balmy condor]

I had an argument with a theorycrafter of a different class earlier

because he said that hunter buffs like 2 weeks ago

[hardy dagger]

Got finality aswell and The shadowdmg nodes

[balmy condor]

were because they scale terribly with weapon damage

and it'll be a problem next tier

and I wanted to strangle him

the sheer logical jumps people will make

[shrewd night]

Yeah, thats why they are buffing hunters THIS tier

[balmy condor]

to justify things that make no sense

is just insane

[marble hemlock]

BM gonna be playing Rasza bow for the rest of the expansion

Isn't that gonna be fun

[royal lantern]

bm hunters constantly jump bettwen "omg ofc bm is strong, it scales bad and is worse later!!!" and "omg ofc bm is strong, it scales insane with stats!!!"

[balmy condor]

yeah fuck you bud

reality is what I make it

why use my brain and think

[hardy dagger]

Our Hunter got mythic bow and straight up did like 15/20 k more than everyone else on terros

[balmy condor]

when I can just argue things that I want to be true

[royal lantern]

you see, there is a limited amount of buffs/nerfs blizzard can do each expansion, so hunter needed that flat 5% buff NOW, cus they cant do it anymore in 10.2

thats also why rogue got nerfed and assa got extra nerfs, they S C A L E so hard that they otherwhise would be to strong in 10.2

[shrewd night]

Based and true

[steel ridge]

amen

[hardy dagger]

Tbf sub has 7 points that increases rupture dmg

[grim jay]

The brain rot needed to limit a bleed/poison DAMAGE TYPE spec to the damage of one finisher while nearly everything the spec does is the damage type actually makes you unable to see that both sides have a point. Especially since rupture for example on the top sin terros log did deal more damage than on subs top log

[royal lantern]

and assa has its MAJOR DMG CD ~double your poison and bleed dmg during its duration, and exsang generates way more rupture ticks over an entire fight

[balmy condor]

no, actually it doesn't make me unable to see that both sides have a point, it just makes me unable to understand why assassination can't have its niche

the argument is always "well sub is a finisher spec and rupture is a finisher"

and that's just fucking dumb

like that's actually just a shit argument

[trail tree]

miracle cheating confirmed because of bow

[balmy condor]

it's the same logic in reverse for assassination

if the argument is "sub = finisher = rupture"

then "sin = bleed = rupture"

[hardy dagger]

Im not arguing against or for im just stating that there more that just 2 talents that buff rupture for sub

[balmy condor]

uno reverse

can't argue against it

[grim jay]

I just dont see how its bad that a spell that fits both specs is good on both. Sin "niche" is again the damage type, not the particular skill.

[royal lantern]

what dmg type

lol

[shrewd night]

Im about to walk my toaster

[hardy dagger]

Aye fr could of looted it before us killing razzy smh

[trail tree]

fr cheating, unlike lasse being a pure noob

[grim jay]

Bleed/poison

[balmy condor]

you don't see the issue in rupture, the main bleed finishing move, the bleed that grants assassination most of its energy, the bleed that is supported by bloody mess, scent of blood, carnage, exsanguinate, lethal dose, zoldyck, and directly is a core part of assassinations mastery as a bleed spell, rupture, being weaker on that spec than the shadow damage stealthy spec that subtlety is

[royal lantern]

"you do bleed poison dmg, thats your niche, but your bleed is worse then the other specs bleed xd"

[balmy condor]

the corner stone of assassinations rotation

is worse

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/Jzpl2/e194f260ec.jpg

[balmy condor]

and you see NO ISSUE?

NONE?

[marble hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/theyre-the-same-picture-the-office-pam-the-office-us-gif-20757621

[balmy condor]

have you been to an optometrist recently

[marble hemlock]

These are all the talents using the words "Bleed, Damage over time, Finisher" and variations of that, thus affecting Rupture. If you really believe that they are basically the same and should be doing the same damage with that specific ability, then idk...

[ebon notch]

Arms warriors did more bleed damage than us pre rework

[trail tree]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5Gy5_cR6Ts davyn rn

[marble hemlock]

you can remove EP because its just a generic amp

[hardy dagger]

Hm i guess we are not counting danse dark soul and shadow dmg nodes?

[marble hemlock]

theyre just global damage amps

that affect ALL damage

[royal lantern]

litearlly everything that Has a bleed does more bleed dmg then assa since forever lmao

[marble hemlock]

subtlety isnt the master of ALL damage is it

well atm for rogue it is, actually

[balmy condor]

sure it is, that's what we're arguing right

[ebon notch]

Bro sub having that node that makes rupture magic is kinda sick

[balmy condor]

it's the best finisher damage cause mastery

[marble hemlock]

its better than

5 different rupture talents on assa combined

actually

[balmy condor]

and also the best bleed damage cause the bleed is a finisher

[ebon notch]

We should have one side specialise in bleed damage and the other in poison

[marble hemlock]

a true capstone

[ebon notch]

With a bunch of supporting nodes

[balmy condor]

and also the best generator damage because backstab

[ebon notch]

For different playstyles

[balmy condor]

and gloomblade

[subtle tundra]

make ic a passive ty

garrote and rupture just automatically spread to 8t

[marble hemlock]

Anyway

[balmy condor]

sub is just better at everything

[hardy dagger]

Just swap spec

[balmy condor]

REAL

[marble hemlock]

EVEN if we include the generic amps that sub has, which you can hardly call "specialization" if its just "ALL damage", then Assa still ends up with more talents focusing on improving rupture damage

[royal lantern]

you forgot better mobility cus shadowstep is sub fantasy

[balmy condor]

if I wanted to play a dot spec, I would play sub!

[hardy dagger]

I dunno i love all the specs rogue goated class

[royal lantern]

nah, fuck DF sub and outlaw

[marble hemlock]

But the topic of discussion is specializations. Subtlety doesn't specialize in it, Assassination does. Subtlety does it better. That's weird.

[subtle tundra]

what if scent of blood was actually tuned high

[ebon notch]

Rupture cranks so hard in aoe it's dumb for sub

[pastel onyx]

@royal lantern look whatve u done

[ebon notch]

If you told me it was bugged I would believe you

[royal lantern]

[balmy condor]

I'm starting to hate sub just because the playerbase seems real stupid

[marble hemlock]

dont do push like that

[balmy condor]

it's starting to get competitive with outlaw players man

[shrewd night]

That a rogue global problem whisp

[balmy condor]

I'm dead serious

[hardy dagger]

Ayo wtf

[pastel onyx]

[grim jay]

Yet again on terros relative to their own damage sin has ~2% more bleed damage.
And as you said it does more for sin than just damage and its a bleed + finisher, so it should be good on both. You are literally limit the bleed/poison type to rupture while you have more that it fits unlike sub

[balmy condor]

sub takes are getting out of hand

[trail tree]

me press black powder me drool and do damage

[balmy condor]

they straight outta pocket

[royal lantern]

cus like 70% are rerolled outlaw rn lol

[marble hemlock]

SUB HAS THREE OTHER FINISHERS

Every single one of your arguments

Can be spun around

And it makes MORE sense that way

[pastel onyx]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-angry-gif-25921146

@royal lantern u actually summoned every1

xd

[marble hemlock]

Why does Sub have to have a competitive bleed when it has 3 other finishers that vastly outperform anything else any other spec has, while also being ONLY 2% worse on the one thing an entire spec is focusing on?

[subtle tundra]

ayo why tf did i open terros mythic logs and its full of bm

i thought st was the balancing point

[royal lantern]

[subtle tundra]

where everything was supposed to be kinda close

[balmy condor]

yeah?

[grim jay]

Sin has way more other bleed/poison spells

[subtle tundra]

approximately

[trail tree]

bow gaming

[subtle tundra]

i love blizzard entertainment

[marble hemlock]

Sub has way more other finisher spells

[subtle tundra]

i love world of warcraft

[marble hemlock]

Again

[subtle tundra]

i love balancing

[marble hemlock]

You must be trolling at this point

[pastel onyx]

spikey gud, not spikey bad

[dense herald]

Assa lads in shambles or what

What’s going on

[regal sable]

holy mald

[pastel onyx]

small discussion

about

rupture

[balmy condor]

assa lads are trying to cling onto our niche

[pastel onyx]

[marble hemlock]

Someone genuinely thinking that its acceptable that Subtlety has a better Rupture than Assa

[grim jay]

So now you just say sub being better with every other finisher is an issue aswell

[balmy condor]

and braindead sub players trying to convince us that rupture is rated E for everyone

[trail tree]

assa lads having a melt down cause or spec is basically dogshit

[marble hemlock]

nice gaslight attempt, but no, thats not what ive been saying

[grim jay]

Well all in all it doesnt

[subtle tundra]

well all in all it does!

[balmy condor]

the average cast of rupture is almost 50% higher bruh

[subtle tundra]

oh it doesnt regen energy

[balmy condor]

TIS FINE

[subtle tundra]

crazy

[balmy condor]

FINISHER SPEC THEY SAID

[marble hemlock]

I'm saying that because Subtlety has 3 other finishers that are really fucking powerful, supporting its niche of "our finishers do big bonk", it doesn't NEED the fourth finisher to be competitive as well

[dense herald]

Tbh there’s no way replicating shadows doesn’t up with assa right?

[balmy condor]

ALL SHALL BE MADE RIGHT

[grim jay]

Does it show DM rupture there aswell ? 😁

[marble hemlock]

Yeah?

Do you even know what youre talking about?

[balmy condor]

aint no way you just asked me that

AINT NO WAY BRUH

[marble hemlock]

Nah bruh, DM Rupture/Garrote are just hidden

[balmy condor]

now we're arguing "but deathmark"

???????????

LMAO

yeah my bad bro

+500k dps

EASY

THATS THE DEAL BREAKER

[trail tree]

[subtle tundra]

no way you would want to also add deathmark to it

[balmy condor]

160k per cast

[marble hemlock]

Ofc

[balmy condor]

half a rupture from sub

holy my bad

[vestal wren]

ye, rupture on subtlety rly has no reason to deal a lot of damage, barely any talents that increase its damage

[trail tree]

deathmark doodoo cooldown

[balmy condor]

I'm so sorry

[marble hemlock]

We have to keep moving goalposts to keep this dumb discussion alive

[subtle tundra]

ah fuck yea i remember, sub gamer

[balmy condor]

sub rupture does literally 2x the damage of a deathmarked rupture

I should've been more careful when looking at the log

this grave mistake I've made

how could I ever apologize for this

[hardy dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/perfect-popcorn-michael-jackson-gif-26271837

[marble hemlock]

Wowie, your global damage amps affect all your damage. Cool. How about the specialized, conditional "bleed/damage over time" effects that dont even affect any other type of damage, are more powerful than just "deal more damage"

[grim jay]

Talking about why it should be better on the SPEC involves what the spec does

[marble hemlock]

What a world that would be

[trail tree]

[shrewd night]

[balmy condor]

sub average rupture: 320k
assa average deathmark rupture duplicating the entire fucking dot: 390k

fantastic

we apply 2 dots

and get 1.3 sub dots out of it

[trail tree]

we put in more effort for it

sub just thatgood

assa just that poopy

[subtle tundra]

yea but can they exsang the rupture?

they cant

Losers

[trail tree]

[hardy dagger]

[royal lantern]

exsang the dm rupture

[balmy condor]

yeah but okay bro what about exsanguinated echoing reprimand rupture with puzzle box deathmark during lust huh?

how about that

that's better

checkmate assa players

[marble hemlock]

The argument is real fucking simple: Subtlety should have more powerful direct damage finishers, because thats what the entire spec is basically tailored towards.

Assassination should have more powerful bleeds and poisons, because thats what the entire spec is bascially tailored towards. But it doesn't. The single one ability it shares with another spec, that other spec is better at. Cool beans.

[trail tree]

assa players are IDIOTS man

[hardy dagger]

I exanged my dm on pull yesterday

[trail tree]

imagine thinking assa is bad?!?! how dumb are we

rupture doing less? lol

[grim jay]

Still limiting the whole sin theme to rupture

[royal lantern]

happens atleast once a raidnight tbh

[marble hemlock]

Because it is the only ability we share

[trail tree]

every pull for me with exsang cause im a dipstick

[hardy dagger]

Still got 99 somehow

[marble hemlock]

Want me to include garrote and envenom and deadly poison, and compare it to sectech and black powder and gloomblade? You really wanna start that conversation?

[hardy dagger]

Does not matter what you press ig

[regal sable]

yeas

[balmy condor]

honestly like why are we even complaining, look guys, assa rupture does more

[regal sable]

pls do

[vestal wren]

yes, just similar to EP, what was highlighted on your picture

[marble hemlock]

Then we venture into "why does sub, a spec focused on finishers, do more damage with its builders than the other specs"

[royal lantern]

cus nobody fking plays assa at this point, why play a spec that is worse then the other options in more or less all ways

[marble hemlock]

If you read what I said, I said to "remove EP because its just a generic amp".

[hardy dagger]

Eh on sennarth id argue it's still the best rogue spec

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/Jzpnv/c3507176dc.png

[grim jay]

Guess why we share it, because it fits both and the Theme of both isnt limited to that one skill either

[balmy condor]

my favorite part about this is that you highlighted "shadow dance has 1 sec increased duration"

[regal sable]

i still dont get what the argument is about tho

simply press botans

and do dmg

[raven knoll]

Bleed spec bleeds deal less bleed damage than non bleed spec bleeds

[regal sable]

and?

[dire spoke]

assa is fine, it just scales badly @balmy condor said

[vestal wren]

i mean similar to EP, rupture gets higher damage from shadow dance, so its something that impacts it

[balmy condor]

[vestal wren]

i was going from this

[marble hemlock]

Yeah, and then I clarified a minute after

[grim jay]

Its basically just a Rant about why a skill that exists on 2 specs that equally fits what the spec is about should be better on one

[vestal wren]

i don't disagree that rupture or bleeds in general should be higher in damage for assassination

[marble hemlock]

But hey, lets just throw in all the global damage amps and somehow still consider that "subtlety specializing in finishers" (please explain to me how improving ALL damage is a specialization), it still doesnt have as many modifiers to Rupture as Assa

[raven knoll]

It is bullshit when you are good at something but a spec that should be good on something else is also as good or even better than you on the thing that you are good at.

[marble hemlock]

But it has better ones. Which is the point of all this dumbfuckery thats been going on in here

[grim jay]

They would even have an issue with it being nightblade bcs its a dot finisher

[balmy condor]

bleed spec has bleed niche, but only on half the bleeds, because the other half of the bleeds are better on the non-bleed spec

[balmy condor]

I don't think you understand that dot and bleed are interchangeable in this argument

[grim jay]

Alright

[balmy condor]

rogue damage over time IS bleeds

[trail tree]

ngl i thought dot and bleed is the same thing since forever

[marble hemlock]

No, because hes saying that Bleed and Finisher are interchangeable, so he has to pretend that Bleed and DoT are not to fit his argument

[balmy condor]

makes sense makes sense

[regal sable]

if u want the better bleeds play sub or wait for tuning then?

[raven knoll]

Sub is shit

[grim jay]

How are they interchangeable when I said they are 2 parts where one each fits the other spec

[raven knoll]

and tuning will never come

[balmy condor]

it's not about wanting the better rupture it's about the concept not making any sense

[trail tree]

just buff assa, remove exsang and we can put this to rest

[grim jay]

Yet again limiting the whole spec concept to 1 skill that fits both concepts

[vestal wren]

i don't rly understand why there is such a big problem if rupture does a fair amount of damage on subtlety

[grim jay]

Bcs they dont think its fair

[balmy condor]

stop moving the goal posts man I'm actually starting to hate you

no one said rupture can't do damage on sub

[vestal wren]

also to mention this, i think gloomblade does way to much damage

[marble hemlock]

Because your argument can only work two ways:

1. Finishers and Bleeds are interchangeable, meaning that since both specs have bonuses to them, it makes sense that they do roughly similar damage (which is what we're seeing atm)
2. Finsihers and Bleeds are not interchangeable, meaning that the individual modifiers in each specs tree must somehow lead to the result we're currently witnessing, which is that both specs do roughly the same DPE (with Sub having better spread on it)

Since you have not been arguing Point 2 whatsoever, but your main argument is "yeah well its a finisher too so sub should have a strong rupture", your argument kinda has to be that the terms Bleed and Finisher are interchangeable

[balmy condor]

we've been arguing that sin rupture should be STRONGER than sub rupture

[royal lantern]

tbh, imo its less "sub should do no rupture dmg" and more" assa should do more cus it invests more in it, has its major cd based around it etc....."

[balmy condor]

you don't get to just twist that into "the meanies said sub rupture shouldn't do damage"

understand what the argument is

internalize

think about it

then say words

[raven knoll]

sub shouldnt have rupture its easy

[balmy condor]

rupture on sub is fine

[marble hemlock]

Since the counter argument is that it is completely stupid that Assassination has a worse Rupture, generally speaking, than Subtlety, you continuously saying "yeah but its a finisher" doesnt really further the discussion

[balmy condor]

it fits the spec, the rotation is okay

but its so fucking strong

for like

no reason

[regal sable]

blizzard moment

[marble hemlock]

Could literally just remove it from doing shadow damage through the capstone, balance out the loss in st damage, sub would still do insane aoe, just not as much

But that would suck

[vestal wren]

yes, but shouldn't it be more objective and just looking at why rupture does more damage.
e.g. the abilities i highlighted all do impact how much damage rupture does on subtlety.

[balmy condor]

if you're in 2 target cleave, and you press rupture on sub, you're literally applying 3x the damage with the same amount of combo points compared to assa pressing rupture

[marble hemlock]

Cuz then youd have a physical dot that only gets boosted by your global amps

[balmy condor]

how does that make sense

[balmy condor]

you don't think the thematical design of a spec matters?

[marble hemlock]

Frankly, Replicating Shadow accidentally walked into the wrong talent tree.

[vestal wren]

the thing is, even with rupture dealing this much damage

subtlety is still noticable behind on two targets

[balmy condor]

damn, good thing we aren't arguing about subs 2 target viability then

[regal sable]

is this what my msg said

[warm parcel]

@dire spoke

[balmy condor]

I mean you decided to say "blizzard moment" like only blizzard would care about it

[marble hemlock]

The fact that Replicating Shadows is stronger than the single most powerful Rupture-improving Talent Assassination has, is kinda wank

[balmy condor]

is that not what you implied

[marble hemlock]

Assassination: Rupture deals 15% more damage
Subtlety: Rupture deals 20% more damage and applies to another target for free

[royal lantern]

[balmy condor]

it's a finisher though

[raven knoll]

That would be capstone in assa tree

[marble hemlock]

Its a bleed though

[warm parcel]

To be fair ass has rupture interact

[royal lantern]

a capstone behind nightstalker

[warm parcel]

Its not flat dam

[marble hemlock]

To be fair, Subtlety has 3 other finishers

[balmy condor]

bad argument, multiple rogue specs have rupture

[marble hemlock]

bad argument, multiple rogue specs have finishers