Yeah CT was around, left, and then came back
#assassination
balmy condor
It’s still a spec stuck in 2010
gaunt moat
Just like my music preferences
balmy condor
Legion rework didn’t change it, dragonflight talents didn’t change it
It just added some toys on top of what is a broken outdated core
marble hemlock
slow marsh
They're reworking ret maybe we get one in 1.7
gaunt moat
marble hemlock
nah
we got quite a bit of attention throughout alpha/beta. not the kind we needed, but a lot of time and effort was spent on fixing assa to be in the state it is in right now: still a broken outdated core with some toys, but one that does the job at adequate levels
classes like SP or ret were basically ignored all throughout beta so theyre getting those changes now instead of pre-expac
slow marsh
True we are adequate and that's all we hope for as assa gamers
gaunt moat
that's funny, because right after launch they instantly nerfed the crap out of it
marble hemlock
despite all the moaning and whining, assa is a good spec and works well
it might play like its a spec from 2010, cause it is, but that doesnt mean its bad. j ust needs to be modernized a bit, like what theyve done with some other dot-based specs
marble hemlock
that's funny, because right after launch they instantly nerfed the crap out of i...
cuz we were outperforming quite hard before all the nerfs
first and even second nerf, id argue, were appropriate
third one i didnt get tho
especially the aura nerf is just
oak tangle
the one thing that would be nice would be not being capped by energy regen, but giving us a way to apply skill expression
slow marsh
We do
gaunt moat
they didn't like seeing all top 3 rogue specs overperforming. so we got collateral.
slow marsh
And we aren't capped by energy regen
marble hemlock
frankly
and that might just be me but
CT and venomous wounds are outdated systems that need addressing
gaunt moat
for me the part that pushed it over the edge
is how they buffed BM when they don't consider how much value they get from the bow
slow marsh
Yeah VW is sus
CT I think is whatever but a lot of people have a lot of varying opinions about CT
oak tangle
And we aren't capped by energy regen
unsure what you mean, we as a spec have nearly an entirely deterministic rotation, besides dealing with blindside procs
halcyon arch
BM buff felt very strange, strongest ST spec just got stronger
slow marsh
unsure what you mean, we as a spec have nearly an entirely deterministic rotatio...
What exactly are you gonna do with more energy
slow marsh
Such as ?
dark bridge
Empower more combo points!
halcyon arch
Exsang
balmy condor
CT and venomous wounds are outdated systems that need addressing
I think venomous wounds is honestly fine, it’s a cool pacing change depending on situation that I’ve always enjoyed, and you can build around it. CT is an endless problematic hellscape though fuck that
slow marsh
Having to talent into VW is weird tho is it not ?
slow marsh
Yeah true
slow marsh
I mean yeah but that's class stuff which is another can
balmy condor
yeah but it's the same shit
you can argue that anything is weird to talent into
because it's iconic to the spec
but that's just how it be
oak tangle
gotta give the illusion of choice otherwise why change from 6 rows of 3 choices or whatever it was
slow marsh
It's just weird to see how they're 'fixing' specs by moving duh talents baseline and freeing up points
balmy condor
gotta give the illusion of choice otherwise why change from 6 rows of 3 choices ...
there was some guy earlier in here flexing his m+ dps when he skipped gouge and iron wire
the choice is there
marble hemlock
I think venomous wounds is honestly fine, it’s a cool pacing change depending on...
dunno, doesnt feel like pace changing because i cant do anythign with that extra energy beyond casting a few extra mutilates
balmy condor
it's just absolute fucking morons that make them
marble hemlock
how muich of a difference would it be
slow marsh
Id argue that's not a problem with VW tho
marble hemlock
to have
regular rotational gameplay
vs having infinite energy (but still the same stats/haste etc.)
slow marsh
More envenoms
oak tangle
wait mans was playing m+ without iron wire?
marble hemlock
sure but
slow marsh
Hence the real problem
slow marsh
Exactly
balmy condor
dunno, doesnt feel like pace changing because i cant do anythign with that extra...
well yeah you gotta slow it down first in order to have that change
marble hemlock
ye
balmy condor
like venomous wounds can be a really unique pacing thing
marble hemlock
and move some of the lost whitehit dmg
balmy condor
if you try to make it that
marble hemlock
into our abilities
i miss old VW that did damage on proc
was a nice aoe tool
that didnt affect st much
oak tangle
where does snd compare on 'damage' to our other abilities?
balmy condor
wdym
magic vine
It's just weird to see how they're 'fixing' specs by moving duh talents baseline...
i think thats just the result of not enough dev time on trees
slow marsh
I mean I kinda wish we could have a no seal fate option to try and counter act the fast for no reason but it's so garbage
dark bridge
I think it would be cool to turn sin into a funnel spec
oak tangle
the attack speed bonus
balmy condor
what about it
dark bridge
And give em shuriken combo during shiv windows
oak tangle
like it is a damaging ability, jsut does no direct feed back which makes it feel bad
balmy condor
yeah but it's also the single strongest ability assassination has
marble hemlock
remove it and move that power into envenom/deadly poison/rupture/garrote
slow marsh
Its the single strongest ability we have and we press it once and ignore it for the rest of tjme
balmy condor
well maybe not the single strongest
deathmark is ridiculously op
but
it's still like 7-8%
for 1 cast
of 3 combo points
oak tangle
but removing it would inherently need to make the spec faster again, also gimping sub
balmy condor
what
oak tangle
unless they want all our abilities to just blast
slow marsh
sick aspen
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
balmy condor
if you just delete slice and dice from the spec tomorrow, assassination is still the fastest its ever been aside from nyalotha
marble hemlock
80APM
oak tangle
probably a bad take, but removing passive damage will need to be made up which means other things have to hit harder. or we have to hit other things faster
balmy condor
probably a bad take, but removing passive damage will need to be made up which m...
yes that's the entire point
balmy condor
the entire point is buff finishers
marble hemlock
so you get a better feedback
marble hemlock
say 30% of our damage is finishers, and 40% is passive. reduce that to 20% passive, and make it 50% finishers. same damage. feels better.
slow marsh
We need more than just envenom in that case
balmy condor
no
minor gate
They should give snd mana totems treatment
balmy condor
we don't
slow the spec down make the finishers hit harder
it's super easy
that's all you need to do
minor gate
I don’t want enhance shammy gcd
slow marsh
So less than 95% envenom uptime
slow marsh
I agree
oak tangle
would you like that extra power to come from conditionals that allow you to buff things properly. like how sub works up to hit big sectecs
balmy condor
where I had 99.3% envenom uptime
marble hemlock
balmy condor
for 7 minutes straight
balmy condor
that shits not okay
marble hemlock
we used to hit like
80-90%
in antorus
which was the last tier
and had a set bonus granting us extra energy
we're in the first tier
and already hitting the maximum uptime on 2 conditional temp buffs
SCALING
slow marsh
Yeah I see what you mean now
balmy condor
http://puu.sh/Jz4JK/b1a482988a.png
I like how you included the 99% alacrity
slow marsh
So you don't care that we just slam envenom over and over you just want it to hit harder and be a bit slower
balmy condor
for all the clowns malding about it dropping sometimes
marble hemlock
ofc
balmy condor
MUH HASTE THAT I CANT NOTICE
keen spruce
i feel like i'm normally close to 90% ep if you have no downtime
balmy condor
marble hemlock
hitting that high uptime on these buffs is not good
slow marsh
I agree
keen spruce
i mean when it's that high then it doesn't really exist
cuz you don't play around it
snd, ep, env, alacirty are just completely ignored
0 gameplay impact
oak tangle
was it some time in BFA that we did play around the envenom buff with a shiv window?
marble hemlock
well yeah, but its also the fact that if something is basically permanently up, you cant put a lot of power behind it
slow marsh
I just also kind of agree with cev take that doing something other than slam envenom would be nice even tho I didn't agree at the time
marble hemlock
so the buffs have to be kinda weak if theyre up 100% of the time already
keen spruce
playing around envenom windows is fun, something to do in between bleed wack a mole
marble hemlock
and historically we gained dmg in future tiers by being able to get more stats and have higher uptime on those buffs. were already hitting permanent uptime scenarios, so where do we go from here?
keen spruce
buffs pooling
balmy condor
was it some time in BFA that we did play around the envenom buff with a shiv win...
it's been every patch since mid legion
slow marsh
🚀🌕
dark bridge
They could also make envenom buff shorter
I find it weird that we have a talent to extend it even though it's pretty much permanent
keen spruce
then we just end up playing that dumbass 2s longer envenom talent 
slow marsh
I'm just waiting until we inevitably CT for ST again
gaunt moat
I find it weird that we have a talent to extend it even though it's pretty much ...
that's just the tree trying to set you up for failure
terse orchid
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
harsh pewter
isnt going night elf solves the desync problem when you choose to use vanish inside deathmark at the opener?
balmy condor
night elf doesn't give improved garrote on bosses
you have to use nelf racial to enter true stealth
and you can't do that on bosses
harsh pewter
@balmy condor oh ok you just saved me 25 euros
balmy condor
yeah I mean
there's a reason not many people play nelf :P
races just don't matter
balmy condor
not noticeably more than anything else
oak tangle
true, just nice if you got pug tanks who love to chain pull
also a nice way to dodge some boss mechanics
normal mist
Just got 2.5k achiev (m+), first the game forgot to award me the achiev, had to logout/in to get it, now the game forgot to give me the item reward from the achiev
😦
oak tangle
in mail
normal mist
negative
oak tangle
have you already gotten it on another toon?
normal mist
also negative, first time
oak tangle
damn 😦 ticket that up
normal mist
imma logout again xD
ionic arrow
which interrupts do you prio after your normal kick in m+?
I feel like gouge ist better than kidney, since I loose less dps
subtle tundra
Kidney and gouge are different
royal lantern
you can gouge more often cus the tank and the dh will instant max the stun DR 🙂
drifting cosmos
Forgot what sin has to give up for gouge
But gouge for sub definitely feel a bit waste
vestal wren
idk
it seems fine
you can take it without issues, ofc maybe something else is more appealing
subtle tundra
Ig first gcd is a stack
royal lantern
Forgot what sin has to give up for gouge
iirc you can drop master poisoner
vestal wren
Ig first gcd is a stack
yes, but cheap shot is still replacing a damage ability
subtle tundra
Ye...
royal lantern
but yeha
i just dropped master poisoner and blackjack for tricks+gouge
blackjack btw
10/10 talent
looking at the trees again made me notice how shit the class tree actually is
like, class tree is the same for litearlly everything
doesnt matter if raid or m+, always the same class tree 🙂
royal lantern
Need to wait for 10.1 maybe?
hahahahahhahahaaahahahahhahahahahahahhaha
vestal wren
it is not obviouse how much dev time blizz has for things like this
just speaking historically
dreamy gull
Idk I like the class tree
royal lantern
they didnt even aknowledge at all that nightstalker didnt work a single day since alpha btw
vestal wren
11.0 would be the next time they can do heavy changes
royal lantern
Idk I like the class tree
you also are not that deep into endgame builds
so ofc you dont see how shit the class tree for rogue is
vestal wren
we essentially never had bigger reworks mid xpac in the last 2 xpacs
royal lantern
with litearlly 0 options
vestal wren
ofc, things may changed
royal lantern
like, for assa you set the class tree once
vestal wren
DF does at least seemingly, do a lot of things good
drifting cosmos
royal lantern
and its always the same, no exceptions
the only thing you change is mindnumbing to aotrophic in raids
vestal wren
what about the council talent build?
vestal wren
royal lantern
when a mythic boss is doable by pugs in week2, its not a real hard bossfight where you need specific builds
drifting cosmos
spec sub and press like 4 buttons to win
drifting cosmos
Rogue is in a good spot atm I wish one day sin can be mainstream m+ spec
royal lantern
i would not really call assa in a good spot
drifting cosmos
Has it ever happened
drifting cosmos
Yea you right, no big instant aoe really hurts
I guess at least ppl look at boss dmg
royal lantern
I guess at least ppl look at boss dmg
you mean the thing where assa is not in the top5 aswell?
arms warrior: massive buffs to its ST and AoE dmg because blizzard didnt like that arms needs to decide so hard bettwen doing ST or AoE
assa:
drifting cosmos
too much sadness
wide ridge
Let us get kb and dtb it will be fine I promise
ebon notch
arms warrior: massive buffs to its ST and AoE dmg because blizzard didnt like th...
i mean it was a bit more than that
it was more like if you specced aoe as arms
you simmed like 50k in ST
so you were literally dead weight
lethal heart
sooo like assa when you spec aoe 
lethal heart
im of opinion that assa rogue needs a small buff
should be able to do 500k aoe burst on 5 targets with full st build
spec deserves it
ebon notch
lethal heart
just a moderate buff you know
ebon notch
something minor
royal lantern
just a moderate buff you know
just do the mage move and "discover" a minor 8k dps increase
lethal heart
what happened with that
ebon notch
warlocks did the same thing lmao
royal lantern
nah, the bfa mage thing, where they did some sim fixes
and realise
oh, if we play a different talent we do way more dmg
or warlocks in SL with venthyr aswell 
"venthyr sucks for m+" meanwhile the APL litearlly didnt even use the venthyr ability on trash
vestal wren
miastkes like that can happen
for rogue sth like this is usually a exception, other classes maybe less so
brazen zodiac
!
gaunt moat
what am i seeing
flaring cowl broke sap?
bold drum
yup
vestal wren
should be possible to sap outsie of cowl range
bold drum
yeah its possible but i dont think anyone is taking cowl breaking the sap into consideration when we go to sap sth
ebon notch
should be possible to sap outsie of cowl range
i got put in combat during sap
and then it broke
☠️
vestal wren
gaunt moat
Flaring cowl confirmed useless
green juniper
anyone have a talents for mythic council? aoe shiv seems good there
ok we have one at faq
brazen nimbus
any way to like sim raz mythic in anyway or just go full st? cant really decide trinkets...
got 415 puzzle
411 grief
395 boon
421 icon
inner temple
any way to like sim raz mythic in anyway or just go full st? cant really decide ...
Is there, yes;
https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/RaidEvents#individual-event-syntax
is it worth your time, prob not ;P
ebon heath
Is the AP build good on Fortified weeks?
fallen moon
when the tank doesnt let you get a re-stealth
every mythic+
royal lantern
Is the AP build good on Fortified weeks?
its never good
ap sucks
like, the entire talent is just shit 🙂
sudden canyon
conceptually or numbers wise?
fallen moon
yes
sudden canyon
i dont think its conceptually bad. A little lazy (design wise), but not completely unsynergetic.
royal lantern
conceptually or numbers wise?
both
past grove
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz
trim turtle
hi, what embellishment for dagger?
royal lantern
none
trim turtle
are your sure?
topaz echo
!lariat
prisma monolithBOT
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.
modern plaza
hi one question, why no one is running Sistematic Failure ?
with these talents
does it affect with carnage?
trim turtle
Ty
frigid kestrel
hi one question, why no one is running Sistematic Failure ?
Is this for M+? Because if it is, you should never not run IW. Also no Exang is a big loss in your DpS as well.
modern plaza
and when do you use exang in aoe?
sudden canyon
been playing xpac for a month. finally getting back into m+.
its feeling like time to play sub. What pains me the most is IC being on 15sec cooldown going into every other pull. It really should be a 30sec cd or make its CD reducible. Also add a single target benefit to it, its just a dead button on fights with no adds.
sudden canyon
and when do you use exang in aoe?
I dont know if you do.
aoe like a m+ pack or aoe like a raid ads?
what situation?
modern plaza
m+ packs
sudden canyon
i dont think you do. I personally run Master Assassin coz Exsang felt clunky in anything but boss fights and it didnt seem worth running it to use it 4/5 times per dungeon because its a 3min cd and i was worried about not having it ready for the next boss.
but also i dont do high keys so.
might feel different about it in certain situations/dungeons
but the m+ opener in #assassination-faq makes a mention of where its used.
slow marsh
hi one question, why no one is running Sistematic Failure ?
because IC doesn't have synergy with systemic failure
modern plaza
oh really? each garrote and rupture on each target on aoe doesn't work?
subtle tundra
read the talent again
jolly niche
quick question, the raidbots is telling me to use mastery gems and enchant in rings, shoul i follow or go full crit ?
turbid heath
what build we using for Raz HC fellas
modern plaza
read the talent again
i've read the talent, and it says like i think it says
at least in spanish
slow marsh
what build we using for Raz HC fellas
just normal st dtb
proper tapir
quick question, the raidbots is telling me to use mastery gems and enchant in r...
Um sure, the general rule is follow the sim... As long as your simming correctly
turbid heath
im having to go AoE for it for guild
slow marsh
time to learn sub
proper tapir
im having to go AoE for it for guild
Ew, go the regular build and spam envenom for AOE phase. Also you can get a stone trinket from CoS, it will help you pad on adds.
pure moth
Is that trinket beneficial even at a 2 min cd though? You can use it on 1 add set only per platform
proper tapir
Is that trinket beneficial even at a 2 min cd though? You can use it on 1 add s...
And on little storm adds too. I mean, if they need to have better aoe numbers for raid leader then yeah.
pure moth
Thats fair. I got one traded to me other day. Might as well try it too on raz
sudden canyon
does shadow dance give a 6sec of Imp Garrote and Master Assassin? + the 3sec drop off buff
vast forum
subterfuge doesn't work on dance
jolly niche
Um sure, the general rule is follow the sim... As long as your simming correctly
so, i'm simming like this, but it doesn't show other gems and enchants https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/x4Qjj87HJMywcrrATQ2u4z
proper tapir
so, i'm simming like this, but it doesn't show other gems and enchants https:/...
There is a setting in the sim tab with gem and chants to "Replace existing gems/chants"; you gotta check that box ❤️
jolly niche
ok ty ^^
proper tapir
ok ty ^^
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fLmeMm28x73a37auz2NyUH the margin is 34dps so anything + or - that is the same. You can also turn on "show gem/enchant variations" on the results page
(rerun this sim tho, idk what it was going for with 4min patchwork)
limber lion
surely it's not that bad
jolly niche
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fLmeMm28x73a37auz2NyUH the margin is 34dp...
ty ty
ember relic
Soft caps?
nocturne current
been playing xpac for a month. finally getting back into m+.
its feeling like t...
Oh, the lining up it's variant depending on the level, a few keys upper or lower it's going to sync.
Even if you reduce to 30s then some packs you would want to use it as the pack had 10 seconds left alive rather than keeping it for next pack otherwise you would lose a ton of casts, too variable
nocturne current
First day of dathea prog today
We got sort-of stuck a bit in Kurog reclear xD
Then we had to spend another hour or so sorting Dathea weakauras heh
spice spire
<:OH_peepoPoint:841055307957534720>
Bro?
keen spruce
nocturne current
Anyone wants to run my 20 keys this week? ._.
weak isle
im about to ask a stoopid question right; but why do we garrote twice with imp garrote? am i missing a tech? i couldnt find a talent that benefit from it? or im giga blind
gusty mirage
!pandemic
prisma monolithBOT
Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs
gusty mirage
^
gusty mirage
turbid heath
so, i'm simming like this, but it doesn't show other gems and enchants https:/...
bruh how you simming 82.5k dps? o,O
woeful meteor
its slice so has some aoe
turbid heath
o
whats everyones simulation options then? What's considered the standard baseline?
woeful meteor
getting 82k st is possible tho
turbid heath
patchwerk 5min etc - what else are you guys ticking / unticking - i seem to be simming mega low
and my parses are sucky
woeful meteor
Patchwerk 5 min ST is the default sim option for st
woeful meteor
If you sim low your/gear talents are bad parsing low is a skill issue 😉
75k isnt to bad
turbid heath
yeah 100% skill issue tbh
I'm looking into my parses and comparing it to the rest of the players around my ilvl and trying to analyze what / where i can improve
woeful meteor
and with bad gear you cant get insane parses obviously
have you tried wow analyzer?=
turbid heath
gear is pretty stacked for 409 tho - considering
balmy condor
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gjCmhU2eYH5uFsmo6LUhqD
why did you disable windfury and monk debuff?
turbid heath
we dont have those in our comp so I just assume that's the done thing?
balmy condor
oh
rough
idk, most people just sim it anyway
easier to compare, doesn't change any evaluation
but uh
yeah that's gonna hurt a lot for your parses
turbid heath
i agree - 8/8hc but just a 2day p/week guild just pretty casual. people are either wanting mythic kills or are just M+ solo players these days
balmy condor
yeh, that's hard to recruit for
turbid heath
tell me about it
boreal cloud
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz
earnest imp
Im actually suprised they havent buffed assa in all these patches
Looks like everyones moving to sub when it comes to raiding
earnest imp
kinda getting pressured to sub now too
balmy condor
can't buff it or the casual outcry would be immense
earnest imp
mehmeh
We got 3 rogues in raza prog so might be able to hold on as the only assa
But i feel like a bird without wings in intermissions lmao
balmy condor
yeah aside from boss damage you're pretty worthless as assa
earnest imp
and considering nature of raza fight, sub is probs better in p2 too
espicially now that kb is semi killed off
w/e thankfully im in super casual guild
keen spruce
i'm just gonna keep linking my heroic boss damage on raz
hopefully inception my GM
into letting me stay assas
already being forced pirate on dathea after kurog
we have two other pirates 
earnest imp
Kurog was atleast somewhat decent as we lacked boss damage
same with Dathea for killing the big add
the fuck am i gonna say at Raza im helping with
p1 dmg is great ":D"
subtle tundra
buddy youre doing hc
just play
if you cant play for fun at that level
then what the fuck
earnest imp
the landing to intermission also awkward, when you garrote the elemental and then cant garrote the fire guy
eh
subtle tundra
wait youre talking about mythic?
earnest imp
yeah
earnest imp
yeah we are shit and proud of it
subtle tundra
being on mythic rasz rn is not super casual buddy
keen spruce
yeah we still stuck on kurog
earnest imp
Id say how much we raid
woeful meteor
Depends how good your casual players are 😄
keen spruce
and lost the rest of our druids
earnest imp
but im too embaressed
But lets just say, with our raiding times this isnt that good achievement
keen spruce
well if you don't raid a lot then u got good players
and if you raid a lot then u not casual
subtle tundra
idk i just swapped to sub cause well i care about world ranks
and the boss isnt a damage check
the only dps check is intermission fire add
to burst his shield
and sub just fucking destroys it
earnest imp
i think our subs are doing shadow dance+black powder shit on those
so i do more dmg to them as assa
subtle tundra
and by being to do that, it helps way more
you get shadow dance secret technique on it
and even if you bp spam you still do good
earnest imp
yeah, idk if i then just go sub aswell
just no idea how really to play around with the thistle tea on it
earnest imp
just in general play
subtle tundra
wtf
earnest imp
XD
earnest imp
Its just that i dont feel comfortable with the specc in general
subtle tundra
i played it for the first time this expac on rasz
until we got to first intermission i learned the spec
earnest imp
yeah maybe il give it a go tomorrow
lethal ridge
!simguide
prisma monolithBOT
Guide to Simming yourself: https://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-raidbots-sims-stat-weights
For more accurate results you should always sim yourself using Top Gear for gear you already have in your bags
or Droptimizer to see which content drops the biggest upgrade for you. Do not use Stat Weights sims to evaluate gear.
safe barn
yo, any specific reason on why the apl suggests a different opener?
balmy condor
cause sims don't optimize openers
cause they're robots and don't care for consistent openers
or moving one gcd 2 seconds later
gaunt moat
already being forced pirate on dathea after kurog
My RL sat himself out (sub/outlaw) and is now also gonna sit a DH to keep me on Dathea 👀
manic walrus
in aoe situations do i even envenom or do i just spam crimson tempest?
ebon notch
@keen spruce is your character called Shmeepy?
balmy condor
I think that's the imposter
keen spruce
yeah lol i snuck in before him
i was afk in valdraken watchin streams
and needed to fix my raz parse anyways so i ratted in there right after preparedDH
oak tangle
are you the really american sounding guy?
bitter jolt
Haven’t logged in a few weeks. Did they remove kingsbane? I can’t find it
balmy condor
shared node with dtb
pallid jay
does improved shiv affect boon damage?
dreamy gull
damn i thought i was doing good damage
pressing all my cooldowns and stuff
vs single target
balmy condor
Whispyr does thundering affect trinkets?
No
balmy condor
Whispyr should I over easy my eggs
Poached
ember relic
Whats rotation when using shiv talent for single target fights?
Any tricks?
Because it's pretty mediocre lol
keen spruce
just don't let it cap on stacks
ember relic
Gotcha
earnest remnant
i did not think it did either until the DH in my guild told me, and then i started paying attention to it, so unless im high, the number do be bigger during thundering
dense herald
rogue abilities affect rogue abilities
Pretty sure BtE and GS affects trinkets
balmy condor
Pretty sure BtE and GS affects trinkets
damn don't care
I said rogue abilities
outlaw isn't a part of my reality
thanks for playing
dense herald
Ooft okay 👌
indigo wing
anyone know what setting zerocool uses to get those green circles for rupture on plater
storm onyx
What do the green circles mean?
gaunt moat
I tried playing grieftorch around thundering
But holding it doesn't seem worth it.
Thundering happens once a minute.
storm onyx
anyone know what setting zerocool uses to get those green circles for rupture on...
Well, you can tell Plater to specifically track Rupture (or any other debuff) as special and then place the icon anywhere along side the bar separated then the rest of the icons; if thats what you are aiming for. No idea what the green dots he uses for but …
indigo wing
Well, you can tell Plater to specifically track Rupture (or any other debuff) as...
ill just have to ask him next time
i know that the answer is no matter the talents fan 3+ targets but why on simc it says not to if youre running DTB
storm onyx
ill just have to ask him next time
If those are for tracking pre-pandemics, apart from timers but color coded, thats neat
storm onyx
i know that the answer is no matter the talents fan 3+ targets but why on simc i...
No idea; afaik we fok at 3+ nonetheless
indigo wing
If those are for tracking pre-pandemics, apart from timers but color coded, that...
do you know how to set that up?
storm onyx
do you know how to set that up?
No sadly; haven’t tried
I was assuming what it could be he’s using
distant mesa
starting to do 20's now and I can't seem to do anything more than 60k overall at 414... is there a way to see what I am doing wrong?
I'm in the AE build DTB
this is the +21 HoV I did earlier today does this breakdown look wrong?
storm onyx
If pull sizes are small overall will not go high comperatively
distant mesa
I mean like AA I can do 85-95k depending ont he tank
but all other keys regaurdless of pull size it seems to be 60k
storm onyx
High overall is normal in AA because of the pack sizes and fights
distant mesa
soooo, 70k
naw, last AA I did overall ended at 87.5
balmy condor
i know that the answer is no matter the talents fan 3+ targets but why on simc i...
it does
storm onyx
HoV is more ST and low pull size oriented dungeon; it’s normal
spice spire
I’d say there’s a few hefty pulls
marble hemlock
Where was the question
storm onyx
Start 3 pack and bears if tank prefers, in our runs so far
spice spire
Nah. 2 pack, kill thunder caller. Then go third
storm onyx
Kill caster and merge?
spice spire
Ye
storm onyx
Kk
outer siren
Yo whispy about to do up a Scott fillet steak
You feeling mushroom sauce?
What we doing mang
balmy condor
You feeling mushroom sauce?
YES MAN
mushroom goated
gotta have a little mushroom cream sauce, put the steak in there
lil garlic butter over the top
hellllllllllllllll yeah
spice spire
balmy condor
You’re a mushroom enjoyer don’t monkacall me
slow marsh
Someone convince me on mushrooms cuz I haven't been yet
spice spire
They’re fucking delicious
Or they kill you
Win win win
Except the part where it liquifies your intestines and is incredible painful
Outside of that tho
slow marsh
Dakota is mid West doesn't count
slow marsh
No anyone from Pacific NW knows that Spokane is Ohio
Like the one city is the whole state
spice spire
Cope
balmy condor
Mid is generous my guy
All 15 dakotians will be very upset about that
spice spire
marble hemlock
gotta have a little mushroom cream sauce, put the steak in there
way to ruin a good piece of meat
gaunt moat
omfg, i had the raszegath mount THIS WHOLE TIME
and i didn't even realize it
grim tangle
gratz
gaunt moat
I had it for months 🥲
dreamy gull
Mushrooms are disgusting
keen spruce
No anyone from Pacific NW knows that Spokane is Ohio
i can confirm that spokane is ohio
slow marsh
Yeah I know lots of people who have corroborated this sentiment but of course it's always nice to hear straight from the source 😆
oak sky
way to ruin a good piece of meat
common mushroom hater W
marble hemlock
nothing common about me
brazen zodiac
mushrooms are good
grim tangle
no
lost horizon
woah @grim tangle aren't you that guy that just killed M Rasz???
jade abyss
mushrooms are good
Warlocks are mushrooms 🤔
brazen zodiac
:o
loud silo
Warlocks are mushrooms 🤔
thats an insult to mushrooms
shrewd night
Mushrooms are used by boomies.Which makes mushrooms inherently bad.
marble hemlock
Agreed
grim jay
Maybe our poisons are made using mushrooms
gaunt moat
you used to have to craft your poisons in the past
gaunt basin
Should i hold the third echoing reprimand for deathmark? Xd
west nymph
Last night I practiced perfect opener for Council Mythic, wanted to get good parses on it and mid pull I realized I forgot to switch my talents rip
New shiv talent is really great on that fight
gaunt moat
Yeah, now from completely trash DPS on that fight
we can do slightly mid-trash dps
steel ridge
just wait for 10.1
gaunt moat
gaunt moat
I'm actually surprised my guild decided to sit other specs on dathea just so i can be in
gaunt moat
they want me to not even go platform
gaunt moat
we switched to 5 healer strat
made zero progression boss %-wise yesterday
i think the struggle in that fight is that it has the most random variables throughout this raid
balmy condor
west nymph
steel ridge
nice
vestal wren
69 is a nice number
undone timber
Hey guys ! Completely beginner rogue here would like to ask a quick question !
Not that meta related, I just wanted to know if you could tell me if assassination is a good spec for beginners ? It looks like it does ask a lot of knowledge, tons of buttons for maybe not as much results as let's say sub ?
It does sounds really fun but yeah I just wanted to know if it was okay to start with this one as it feels like the " less rewarding one " or should I comeback later ( M+ related, I'd like to push in early 20~, getting bored ot tanking for years 😛 ) (( hope the english is correct sorry ))
balmy condor
assassination is fine, probably about equally hard to the other specs right now
undone timber
oooh ok my apologies ! I often heard like sub is " two buttons " while assa sounds like 1000 buttons haha but mb then 🙏
balmy condor
sub kinda does everything better right now except raw single target and like sustained 2 target, which is a niche that doesn't exist right now
balmy condor
oooh ok my apologies ! I often heard like sub is " two buttons " while assa soun...
sub being 2 buttons is a meme because their main aoe rotation is storm->powder
but it's a bit more complicated than that
fleet imp
Started assa moved to ol and now sub.
Among the tree the most usefull and pugs free is assa imo. Usually you never lack damage but utility and cc
undone timber
Oh okay ! Thank you so much for the clarification ! Sooo I might suffer but going assa isn't as much as meme as let's say going hunt survival !?
undone timber
Oh alright !
fleet imp
Take for exampme first big pack on AV
If you play assa is free
If you play other rogues you need to pray ppl will not go ungabunga
undone timber
I was checking subcreations, it was in the same tier as Survival on M+, that scared me but I supposed that it was because everyone was playing sub/outlaw and it would probably be higher if there was more assa's
Oooh ok that's cool to know that beasta!
Well okay I guess I will give it a try ! 😄
fleet imp
Playing with pugs you are free up till 21-22s
fleet imp
After I got hit by a dps check wall
undone timber
Well first I'll try to go to 22's but then we'll ! Maybe a buff might come by the time I get there 😌
But ok thanks to you two !! Clearly feeling safe trying it !! ( I'll comeback and unleash everything here if you two are just leaders of the " Assa cult" trying to take me down with you :> ♥ )
Jokes asides, thanks again !!!!
jade abyss
Short Question atm i play with lariat and dagger with the physical damage enchant on it. I have a cowl in my bag, its good to recraft the dagger and remove the enchant for wearing cowl? Or i go for cowl when i have the ring from the raid and switch then.
royal lantern
just go cowl and enjoy your free 418 item
cowl and weapon emb are the same dmg by default
jade abyss
Big thanks
subtle tundra
sub being 2 buttons is a meme because their main aoe rotation is storm->powder
i looked at a sim sample, it did gloomblade spam into eviscerate for 20 seconds straight
vestal wren
gb into evis is the in between dance sequence
given that dance lasts 8 seconds and you use dance every ~25 seconds, i would say that the downtime is usually 17 secs
but you can rly make this statement for any spec
"i looked at a sin sample sequence and it did only mut and env"
random fossil
"i looked at a sin sample sequence and it did only mut and env"
i was about to send the same thing lmao
vestal wren
outlaw might be the one spec that makes it hard to make such statements
because it has more frequent procs and very short cooldowns
kind talon
but you can rly make this statement for any spec
Varas is a troll
He was joking
Just so you know
vestal wren
but this is similar to the "subtlety only uses storm and BP", that people like to state repeataty
sonic schooner
vestal wren
or if they try to be smart about it: "people say its 2 buttons.", "i won't say its 2 buttons, but its very simple"
uncut echo
or if they try to be smart about it: "people say its 2 buttons.", "i won't say i...
In tornado + dance sub is kinda nutty imo
uncut echo
My biggest gripe with rogue rn is losing 1 min sprint in almost all scenarios is complete dogass
That node should be two charges of sprint
vestal wren
assassination never made this trade off
vestal wren
you can skip acro
timber basalt
That feels even worse
uncut echo
That's not a suggestion
timber basalt
limber lion
vestal wren
That feels even worse
i mean
at least you can't randomly lose 10% of your damage because you did stand in acro range when using secret technique
timber basalt
It's funny because sv hunter has the same issue with lunge not working on half their spells too
uncut echo
at least you can't randomly lose 10% of your damage because you did stand in acr...
Tell realz the big brain fix is to make sec tech clones do damage 100% of the time no matter the range if they are hit by the initial hit. Ez
timber basalt
Yes
timber basalt
Butchery and fury of the Eagle aren't impacted by lunge
royal lantern
It is though
stop fking lying
subtle tundra
Butchery and fury of the Eagle aren't impacted by lunge
Buddy you say those words like they mean something
timber basalt
subtle tundra
Only people that know those words are fotm rerollers which vaguely remember the spec by now
timber basalt
Sv is jacked rn tbh
vestal wren
warrior looks great too
subtle tundra
Not playing wow feels amazedong
subtle tundra
I'm not dooming I just don't feel like playing m+ anymore so the game is boring 😬
uncut echo
Why not go for 3k
uncut echo
Uh huh
vestal wren
you can play dark and darker or higwards if you want to try something new
or push on subtlety or outlaw if you want to push
(not saying assassination is terrible or bad in m+)
subtle tundra
With rotating m+ it just requires way too much time to be able to push high keys
Learning 8 dungeons every season in and out
Is too much
vestal wren
i assume things will be more stable long term
i don't think 8 new dungeons each seasons will be a long term goal
uncut echo
I think that's an objectively trash take
subtle tundra
I just can't see myself learning 8 dungeons to perfection and then with every significant affix and then with combinations of the affixes
uncut echo
Now the real talk
subtle tundra
And how every mob functions
subtle tundra
And how you have to get a kick rotation on every mob with every comp you play with
shrewd night
yeah, lets go back to boring challenge modes with zero replayability
uncut echo
yeah, lets go back to boring challenge modes with zero replayability
Because quaking and spiteful add depth and complexity
Keep a seasonal fun affix and remove the dogshit
subtle tundra
I can maybe go with 8 dungeons every season with less affix
shrewd night
cant have good affixes if you dont have bad affixes to compare them with..
subtle tundra
Sure I can spend every week learning every pull in every dungeon based on the affixes
If it wasn't obvious already I'm talking about very high keys not just your weekly 20s
nova flax
Takes about 3 weeks to learn the dungeons. Less so now that all the giga EU streamers are blasting 27s
The knowledge requirement is much higher than u are making it out to be 
subtle tundra
And then it's explosive or grievous and some pulls are not doable
Or bolstering or whatever
nova flax
I do agree with that tho
One of the best fort weeks this season is unfun for healers
And one of the best tyran weeks is unfun for melee
Affix rotation is awful this season
subtle tundra
And then you have to learn tyrannical bosses as if they were mythic raid bosses
Well some
With assigned mobility defensives dps checks etx
And you pile all of these up
And it just takes so long to learn
nova flax
Yeah its really not that hard
subtle tundra
And then all of this become obsolete
nova flax
It only becomes that much of an ordeal of ur actually pushing the world highest keys. Which u never really were.
subtle tundra
Sure I wasn't pushing at echos level
But everyone else pushing close to them just play so fucking much
Which wasn't that big of a deal before this expac
Cause we had experience of the dungeons from previous seasons
So skill could compensate
terse orchid
I just can't see myself learning 8 dungeons to perfection and then with every si...
That's why you only do CoS and SBG, duh
royal lantern
That's why you only do CoS and SBG, duh
every fotm player ever
yes i Push keys and need to reroll cus of that (highest key done is a SbG +22)
oak tangle
my keys consist of a healer leaving group after first trash packs cause they fucked up
ebon notch
every fotm player ever
normal mist
my keys consist of a healer leaving group after first trash packs cause they fuc...
I usually know a key is about to be depleted/someone will leave when the tank says he's gonna do a different route than what we are used to
If it ain't broke, don't fix it
Example of this: CoS18 this week, tank decided he wanted to sap the guy in first pillar and shroud to the left harbour, BL there and clean up.
We never did that but tagged along, it was a clownfiesta that ended up in a wipe.
After that we managed to clean and reach boss. I used the phial on the boss and went to destroy pillars, tank decides to agro boss when I'm out of stealth destroying the 2/3 pillar.
I do love random people with random ideas
magic vine
bl harbour isn't that random
royal lantern
if your group wants the cos "skip habor, do boss, 1guy runs past robot and we do habor without him" strat
leave
it never works with randoms, and is not really worth time anyway
ebon notch
Example of this: CoS18 this week, tank decided he wanted to sap the guy in first...
Listing harbour is the best strat on fort
It's easy and efficient
magic vine
and shrouding so people don't accidently aggro the sentry isn't the worst idea, since in my experience thats where harbor stuff goes sideways
ebon notch
Yeah that's the only place worth shrouding even
royal lantern
shroud im df
normal mist
The add ended up agroed anyway
ebon notch
How lmao
magic vine
yea but thats on the ranged people being in a bad spot not the tank
normal mist
And I did
ebon notch
So unless the tank went and stood on it and broke the sap
magic vine
tank pulling boss early is all on him, thats a misplay not a creative route choice 😄
ebon notch
It was one of the DPS?
normal mist
It was one of the DPS?
The tank pulled the boss and imma be honest i have no idea who pulled the sentry add, i was already down at the arbor
terse orchid
if your group wants the cos "skip habor, do boss, 1guy runs past robot and we do...
Gotta agree. Any group that's pugging shouldn't need to minmax the route like this for those few extra seconds. If you can't time CoS with a normal route, you probably can't pull this off either
royal lantern
do the 4man habor gate opening with your group that is pushing a +24 and is using vc
not in my shity +20cos for vault
thorn fjord
What are we supposed to do now that Football is over
thorn fjord
🐬
ebon notch
do the 4man habor gate opening with your group that is pushing a +24 and is usin...
took us so many cos keys to learn how to do cos properly
fug
viscid spear
Unless you’re an eagles fan
balmy condor
Unless you’re an eagles fan
Go bengals
uncut echo
Haha yeah sport ball!!!!@
subtle tundra
loser american football
ebon notch
loser american football
do you like anything
subtle tundra
do you like anything
yes, i like football
sonic mason
yes, i like football
Soccer isn’t a sport
spice spire
do you like anything
Be likes hating
subtle tundra
i like many things its just more fun to hate publicly
ebon notch
looks like you're just a salty old man
spare bobcat
I like bobs
echo heath
Robert's are usually chill
royal lantern
yes, i like football
time to make war: football or football
wary ice
🔫 🎆 🇺🇸 🦅 soccer 🦅 🇺🇸 🎇 🔫
fallow canopy
time to make war: football or football
football, you know the one that's played with the feet
royal lantern
fading wigeon
Lol nfl has tried outside of the US before. The game is just so boring for us non-US folks.
thorn fjord
Dunno man the germans are all about football right now
dreamy gull
EU ppl when they choose to call soccer football instead of just using the word for that sport that already exists and doesn't confuse everyone
royal lantern
Dunno man the germans are all about football right now
not really
people are just bored, so they watch it lol
balmy condor
sorry little confused
Fok on 3 always was an optimization from like a month ago with 10.0.5 changes, should be in sims
turbid heath
hello fellow gamers
for those with Grieftorch - do you open with Garrote > Grief > Garrote?
balmy condor
No
vapid sierra
I use puzzle box First
teal iris
balmy condor
You wouldn’t be able to puzzle box with cooldowns if you used grieftorch beforehand
That’s a gigantic troll
Quick way to ruin your damage
lost idol
could someone help me build a talent tree, im currently level 69, doing dungeons and etc
saw some build pages in this channel but there are a lot of variations and for someone as new as me its kinda of tough to choose the right one
balmy condor
Get one level, then copy the dungeon talents from the faq
balmy condor
Mythic+ is endgame dungeons, yes
frozen iris
Anybody having issues where you cant stealth or vanish?
wary ice
I have it like this atm
trade 1/2 lethality for Echoing reprimand's buff talent
balmy condor
Or Just Level once
wary ice
and then gain a level
lost idol
the resounding clarity?
balmy condor
And then put the point in
vapid sierra
Might still be in combat
balmy condor
That’s a very broad question
lost idol
let's say for a single target boss
balmy condor
That doesn’t narrow it down
lost idol
shi ;d
balmy condor
I ain’t gonna sit here and explain the entire rotation lmao
wary ice
let's say for a single target boss
I'd suggest just reviewing the rotation section in #assassination-faq
its basically "build spend, maintain dots"
lost idol
yeah I know, but there's like 15 of em
balmy condor
15 what
lost idol
balmy condor
You Just linked the m+ talent tree with dragon tempered
Wdym dragon tempered or kingsbane
If kingsbane were better, the tree would use it
lost idol
yeah but fml there ain't a single opener in the FAQ with the tree that I use atm
balmy condor
I guarantee you there is
lost idol
there's almost an exact one like this but it uses kingsbane
balmy condor
This entire conversation has taught me that you haven’t really read the faq
So I assure you
There is something there
If you open your eyes
lost idol
4 openers, neither of them fit me
some of them have serrated bone spike which i don't have
balmy condor
You’re playing a carnage build?
lost idol
yes
balmy condor
Perfect, the third one says in bold use this for any carnage build
That’s one down
What’s the next question
lost idol
but it has kingsbane
trim zinc
there's almost an exact one like this but it uses kingsbane
do the same thing skip the kb cuz u dont have
"use this for any caranage build remove kb for dtb builds"
balmy condor
Holy shit
lost idol
ah aight
balmy condor
Do you not read anything
lost idol
understood
man if you would know how much shit i've read in these past few days you would fall of your chair rn, there's so much stuff to this game that changing one talent could mean all and as a person who doesn't know I don't want to make such decisions on my own, then get blamed by ppl like you who have been playing the game for ages
get told that im an idiot and my talent tree is wrong
balmy condor
I don’t think i would fall off my chair
I wrote all the stuff you’re supposedly reading
I’m just not really in the mood to write it all
lost idol
well fuck me, my bad mister.
balmy condor
And then have to spoon feed it a second time
Also who told you your talent tree is wrong
It’s the recommended build
Looks good
lost idol
yeah well I thought if I changed the kingsbane it would be bad, cause some of the talent trees are just few skills changed but are meant for different things.
but now I understand, thank you.
balmy condor
Happy to help
twin iron
how do you keep aoe dmg up when stuff are still alive (5+ targets alive) and your garrote rupture have expired ?
balmy condor
Refresh until you have enough energy and then ct/envenom
twin iron
i rly struggle with reapplying everything and not being energy starved
spice spire
It you don’t reapply; you will be energy starved because of venomous 🙂
twin iron
so i start reapplying everything like 4-5 seconds before they expire
prisma monolithBOT
Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs
dreamy gull
Get a weakaura that tells you when the pandemic window is
sinful latch
can you craft and use 2x crafted daggers?