assassination

[vestal wren]

what is basically legion vs. sl

[soft cape]

Leveling for 30 hours vs 6 is a very big difference too

Gives you more to do

[vestal wren]

wow also allows you now to play other games, so it lowers the commitment of time

[royal lantern]

tbf, it did most of the time

[soft cape]

I played classic and for the first few weeks didn't feel like you could play anything else if you wanted to raid and keep up

[royal lantern]

the BfA/SL "OMG CAN ONLY PLAY WOW" outcry was very heavy overdone, cus it was litearlly not a thing if you didnt raid in top100

[vestal wren]

but the reality is, we had multiple good even better mmorpgs come out, and most wow players never felt any reason to engage with those

[soft cape]

Alright back to actually playing the game and not posting in discord for hours

[drifting cosmos]

not wow enough

[soft cape]

[vestal wren]

yes, and the reason was pmuch

"it is not wow"

and this applies to quite a big portion of the wow playerbase

[viscid spear]

I tried Wildstar but just couldn't get invested enough.

[royal lantern]

yes fuu, and thats the case for litearlly every single mmo, thats why the sentence is stupid

[drifting cosmos]

But tbh if you only do 1 of m+/raid/pvp wow can pretty chill

[vestal wren]

this is also why most of the time when there is a new exciting mmorpg, you know for sure it won't impact wow

[royal lantern]

ff14 players will not play other mmo cus they tell you its bad, its not like ff14 and has no story

gw2 players will complain about having actual progression systems

[soft cape]

The story sucks tho

[vestal wren]

the only mmorpg that by now can impact wow is the lol one

[royal lantern]

korean mmo players will complain about not beeing able to pay 400€to get 1 item at max lvl and sthit

[royal lantern]

i mean, i agree, only heavensward was good cus it was selfcontained

[soft cape]

I hope it's good tbh

I really like the league verse

[drifting cosmos]

When will it come out

[soft cape]

Imagine your world and story being so bad you have to full reset

[royal lantern]

the overarching plot in ff14 is very very HEAVY overrated and extremely lame and has more plotholes than wow and multiple retcons in even a single expac

🙂

[vestal wren]

probably not very soon

[soft cape]

Tbf I don't play wow for story

[vestal wren]

final fantasy is the only mmorpg that exsits atm with a universe big enough to be interessting

[soft cape]

I like the way my class plays

That's why I play it

[drifting cosmos]

Hmm imagine if they make wow2

[vestal wren]

but has enough shortcommings to not appeal to a big part of the wow community

[soft cape]

Yeah you can't be toxic at all

[royal lantern]

something like that will never happen because we are in wow2 rn

[soft cape]

Obviously why

[vestal wren]

wow 2 is just too expensive to do

[soft cape]

Using / creating new engines

Big money

[vestal wren]

i assume it could be a big success, but even then the main problem is you would canibalize your own playerbase

[royal lantern]

and you aliante a huge part of your playerbase

like, everything you have rn

just gone

70%would just not borther

[soft cape]

Destiny 1 to destiny 2

[royal lantern]

yep

[soft cape]

Is a great example

[royal lantern]

im a HUGE destiny player

[soft cape]

Like the best tbh

[royal lantern]

that swap almost killed the franchise

[soft cape]

I do know if they make a d3 they plan to port most stuff over

Or try to

[drifting cosmos]

Can’t they just transfer what you have etc?

[royal lantern]

like, destiny is in its best stage it ever was right now, but damm, the swap from 1 to 2 was the worst gaming desicion ever

[royal lantern]

they dont

[soft cape]

They didn't do that.

[soft cape]

They actually want to, though.
If they make d3

[royal lantern]

in bungies words, destiny2 right now IS destiny3

[soft cape]

Did you read what I said

[vestal wren]

luckily ow 1 to ow 2 transition was flawless

[royal lantern]

why then even make a wow2

[soft cape]

'if they make d3'

As in remake it with a new engine

[drifting cosmos]

Yea cos I was just thinking, wow 2 with new engine etc, less bugs etc but you keep your account data

[soft cape]

Surely.

[vestal wren]

(i am joking because ow2 is the same game essentially)

[soft cape]

They can't even transfer Chinese accounts on the current engine

You think I trust them with that

[royal lantern]

you know what huge effort it would be to make a new mmo with a entirely new engine, and then also copy litearlly everything in the game over

like, do you realise the insane amount of items and stuff in wow?

[drifting cosmos]

Chinese servers.. I feel bad for the players tbh

Got screwed over bad

[royal lantern]

eh, blizz tries to get them back in

chienese laws are hell

[soft cape]

Yep

[drifting cosmos]

Yea guess can only dream

[vestal wren]

it is more a political issue tbh

i don't think blizz likes to lose a region for their mmo

[drifting cosmos]

Like sure as hell if my account data gets deleted I would never start over wow again

[royal lantern]

eh, yes but also fuu, they announcend that they dont wanna publish wow anymore and then instantly released a wow clone trailer that is using slightly modfied wow footage and modles

they planed it^^

[vestal wren]

copyright law in china def. is special

[royal lantern]

there is none for foreigners

[vestal wren]

you can think of it like that, there is a law to my knowlage

[soft cape]

There are laws

They just basically do nothing

And charge nothing.

Mobile legends is a good example.

[royal lantern]

^

[vestal wren]

i do like the idea of a weaker copyright laws

[royal lantern]

like yeha, they exist

[soft cape]

They paid barely any of their profit to riot after they got sued

[royal lantern]

but its like, if you are a foreigner company vs a Chinese company, dont even try

[soft cape]

And continue to do it to date

The only reason riot probably even made a dent is tencent

[molten cloud]

coming from outlaw, still trying to get stats optimized for assasination.. is it normal to feel like im always out of energy? running thistle tea and 21% haste

[soft cape]

If you want to call that a dent

Welcome to sin

Or rogue in general

[royal lantern]

haste doesnt do shit for energy

[drifting cosmos]

slow game play

[royal lantern]

its 1energy for 10%haste

[molten cloud]

im used to having carpel tunel playing outlaw

[soft cape]

Yesn

You get that

[royal lantern]

well, then welcome to a normal speed spec with roughly 60apm lol

[drifting cosmos]

What’s outlaws apm

[royal lantern]

bettwen 70 an 80 iirc

[soft cape]

Outlaw is like 80- with ar I think

[drifting cosmos]

Even sub feels faster than sin

[royal lantern]

they are simmelar, sub is slightly faster

[soft cape]

But outlaw players also spam

[royal lantern]

cus sub has a couple off gcd spells, even thought you macro some of them anyway

[drifting cosmos]

Ok so noticeable difference

[soft cape]

So ur probably looking at more like 200apm

[drifting cosmos]

[molten cloud]

worst part of this is i had 408 and 405 swords now i need to get some daggers.. running awful weapons rn . but sin feels super good so far

[royal lantern]

why do you NEED to get them?

just wanna swap specs, or unhappy with outlaw?

[molten cloud]

playing outlaw since shadowlands, getting a bit bored with it and starting to hate the apm

[royal lantern]

as a CTS victim, fuck DF outlaw

[soft cape]

If my wrist gets bad again I'll probably play sin in raid

Til all good

[royal lantern]

i can do 1 dungeon as outlaw when i do stretches before and after it

otherwise its literally unbearable

[drifting cosmos]

mouse clicking sin

[molten cloud]

plus i felt rotation felt a bit clunky since the fan the hammer nerf

[royal lantern]

you litearlly changed almost nothing

and the nerf was a buff lol

outlaw, a spec that is so horrible desinged that a nerf to 1 ability results in a net gain cus of small changes somewhere else

[soft cape]

Thats just copium

Oh no I have to press 1 more gcd

https://tenor.com/view/disintegrating-funny-thanos-gif-22399978

[molten cloud]

okie wow i no mention fan the hammer nerf

[royal lantern]

nah, the fan nerf is just a huge meme on this server at this point

[molten cloud]

haha i can imagine

[jade abyss]

What is it right now? Pistil shot into sinister strike into finisher instead pistol shot into finisher?

[royal lantern]

cus the outrage was gigantic how outlaw is a dead spec now, litearlly unplayable, all flow ruined etc....

and in reality it was "you do pistol->ambush now" and thats it

[molten cloud]

honestly the damage is still really good

[royal lantern]

and actually GAINED dps

but jesus, the outrage was a sight to behold

[molten cloud]

hahah

[jade abyss]

My keyboard crushed bcs high assa apm

[lone edge]

whcih slots are best for 4 piece for assa pvp?

[royal lantern]

#pvp

nobody here plays the minigame mode

[lone edge]

mybad aha

[flint gulch]

God i hate the only place where i notice my minor fine motor skill impairment are games IRL barely even notice it at all

It limits the amount of keysbinds i can make use of about 20 to 24 at best

[copper hazel]

foot pedals

[balmy condor]

make an eye tracker with a left click on blink

like steven hawking

[flint gulch]

Nah i leave out the stuff i dont really need

I wish i could make build that is completly build around personal damage and not having to bring group utility just pure damage nothing else

[balmy condor]

okay, so every assassination build?

[royal lantern]

what group utility

its rogue

[balmy condor]

unless you want to skip atrophic poison because the one poison application an hour is difficult

[royal lantern]

blizz removed all group utility

[full iron]

hey, i have a question:
would it be better to upgrade my second dagger to 418 or my lariat to 418 first ? i have a 411 offhand atm and the crafted mainhand on 418

[balmy condor]

lariat

[full iron]

dont know which move is smarter

k

[flint gulch]

What i envision is ability to hyperpecialse so removing every utility in favor of damage. But im a person that is overspecialsed in IRL pretty born as such, so that tendency extends to games

[copper hazel]

sec, googling hyperpecialse

nvm

you meant hyperspecialize

[flint gulch]

Yeah my english selfthaught for most part so my typo is far from perfect

[copper hazel]

youre already a pure dps class, im not sure how much more hyperspecialized you can be

its not really a game where you can only ever do pure dps, unless you point blank remove things like blind, kidney shot, kick, etc from your bars

and people are going to get real annoyed at you for not performing some basic things like kicks, unless you can get a group to understand and do that for you

[flint gulch]

My ranting means i should try another Spec on Rogue for a change of pace

[oak tangle]

is this still going?

[balmy condor]

respectfully your complaints aren't complaints about a spec, they're just a complete 180 to the game

you're not going to find what you're looking for in wow

because the issues you have

exist for every spec

at every gameplay level

[copper hazel]

it wont change, you will have the same issues. Every rogue spec has things it can do outside pure dps. You just need to find a way to adapt to it

[balmy condor]

in all content

[flint gulch]

They already do

[copper hazel]

foot pedals, naga mouse, extra keyboard buttons, etc could all help

[oak tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/bongo-cat-wow-arcane-mage-pick-a-card-gif-13109917

maybe this one?

for real though in terms of keybinds and general utility dh is probably one of the simplest

[royal lantern]

bm

dps warrior

[oak tangle]

bm they'll want you to trap things, warrior they want shout and stuff

[flint gulch]

The 7 and 12 button layout for my mouse dont really work well for my handsize. I already have a keyboard for small hands, but i would need one that has a layout custom made for my hands

[royal lantern]

yes, but you only have like 5 offensive abilitys

[oak tangle]

non momentum build for dh is basically that right?

plus your raid buff is passive

[royal lantern]

well, darkness

[copper hazel]

Razer Tartarus could help, its like a 1 handed keyboard and thumb thing

[oak tangle]

i know but for this use case i don't expect a darkness to ever be called or expected

interrupt is a fury gain so effectively dps

[flint gulch]

Im messing around with casters currently Ele, Shadow but well thats a shiton of macros

[copper hazel]

lmao ele and shadow will fuck you up

[dark token]

You want a class that's zero utility all dmg?

[royal lantern]

i mean, ele and shadow are litearlly 2 of the worst classes with keybinds

cus shaman and priest have a shitton of abilitys

same with rogue

[dark token]

Play dh or evoker, least keybinds of any spec

[oak tangle]

dh you delete a button and make your auto attacks your generator

[royal lantern]

dh, evoker, dps warrior or bm hunter, thats the classes where you can sleep on keybinds cus most stuff can be put on a macro or is extremely situational

[flint gulch]

I leave out the stuff that i dont need for myself i dont play the game for other i play for my own enjoyment

[oak tangle]

🙂

[copper hazel]

ah so you only do world quests and stuff then

[flint gulch]

Nah

[balmy condor]

No he’s just a selfish guy

[copper hazel]

fair

[royal lantern]

shelffish guy

[hollow dirge]

Problem with this is that you want to play single player game , but play wow instead 😂

[flint gulch]

I mean i have a motor skill impairment the only way i can play

[oak tangle]

go play path of exile summoner build, perfect

[balmy condor]

No no, you don’t get to blame your disability for your opinions on this one

Your two opinions so far are:

1. the game should have less buttons because I want that for me, even though it would suck for the rest of the community

2. I don’t want utility or anything for party play, even though I play in parties

That’s not wow being limiting for you and your disabilities

[flint gulch]

Its fact theres nothing i can do to fix it even if i wanted to

[balmy condor]

That’s simply you being selfish and wanting the game to be not the game

There ain’t nothing wrong with having disabilities

It sucks

I get it

But it really pisses me off when people use it to shield themselves of criticism for what are essentially just awful ideas for the majority of the community or anyone that isn’t directly in that very niche specific community

“I have motor skill issues” doesn’t mean “I’m not interrupting”

Those are two issues, entirely separated

Your unwillingness to help your party is not beholden to your physical abilities

[oak tangle]

the first keybind i ever place on a new class is the interrupt. before even considering damage buttons

[balmy condor]

You play an mmo. It is by definition a game that you play with people, to achieve shared goals, together.

[royal lantern]

just put it on the same button for all characters....?

[oak tangle]

you can do half to a quarter of the damage in a group you'd otherwise do, but doing an interrupt will make that content doable

[balmy condor]

You playing for yourself is ruining the experience for everyone you play with

[oak tangle]

there is literally one shot mechanics tied to interrupting things

[balmy condor]

And at the core of these arguments is that problem laid out very bare

The core of it all is “I don’t care about that though”

[oak tangle]

interrupting is the highest damaging ability in the game, it is just not direct damage done on your meters

[random fossil]

Kick is also the most satisfying sound in wow

[balmy condor]

^ you even said so yourself here

[random fossil]

I'll say it

[fleet nebula]

i want to play assassination but i feel so confused when i look at wowhead's aoe guide

[balmy condor]

Idk, it’s one hell of an irony that you come in here and spearhead Accessibility

But then want nothing but ruining the game for others by playing a single player game

[oak tangle]

you can get through like 90% of content just using ic on cool down and spamming fan of knives and crimson tempest until it's back up

it's not optimal, but it works

[balmy condor]

We’re confused too don’t worry. The theorycrafting basically has shown that nothing really matters past:

1. Get garrote/rupture up for energy
2. Maintain envenom/ct
3. Generate->spend on stuff

[vestal wren]

maybe it would make more sense to try to lower your button count elsewhere

if kick is "too much buttons"

is that the discussion?

[balmy condor]

We tried that line of thinking like an hour ago and he said he would rather do damage

[vestal wren]

maybe macros or other things work

[sacred kite]

Sequence macros?

[royal lantern]

not a real thing in retail

[fleet nebula]

the problem is i can't figure it out how many targets should i swap to crimson tempest instead of envenom most of the time xD i'm too used to spamming black powder

[vestal wren]

e.g. the ambush + mut macro is not that bad with gnome sequencer even tho it is not perfect

[balmy condor]

You don’t

[oak tangle]

3 isn't it

[balmy condor]

It actually doesn’t matter

You maintain CT, you maintain envenom

GG you did it

[vestal wren]

if means one less button if you use blindeside

[balmy condor]

Dump points on anything at all

[fleet nebula]

that sounds fun

[oak tangle]

but also depends on which build, if DTB IC then spam that envenom

[royal lantern]

you can spam ct at 5-6 targets and its fine

the optimal plays is "keep Envenom buff up and dump CP into CT bettwen that"

but it doesnt make a huge difference in the end

like, spamming FoK->CT when enough garrote/ruptures are out works 90%of the time

[balmy condor]

I made a Giant spreadsheet testing varying times to refresh CT, on the left it spends 40 envenoms and 20 CT’s, on the right 20 envenoms and 40 CT’s

You can go over the numbers if you’d like

But the bottom row shows that you really don’t gain or lose anything

It’s all the same

[brazen zodiac]

[fleet nebula]

i think i like envenom more because tempest doesn't feel as powerful as black powder in my mind since it's a bleed

thanks a lot for answers though

[balmy condor]

Sin is just a big dumb spec where nothing matters

It’s great

[oak tangle]

is poison bomb included in that?

[vestal wren]

but thasts fine

[vague widget]

Lol. It's whose line is it anyway of specs. The points don't matter.

[oak tangle]

PBdps right?

[balmy condor]

Yes

It also estimated the amount of dps you get from poison applications from envenom

[flint gulch]

My limit is 20 to 24 buttons so i have fit in the most important stuff and leave out the less important stuff the consisten solution i found . So can fit in the most important stuff?

[balmy condor]

By attributing a portion of the dps related to the uptime

[oak tangle]

in that case all that matters is do you need to focus down a target vs spread damage evenly

[balmy condor]

But you actually get more poison applications spamming CT

Because it just hits more targets

Aint that fun

[royal lantern]

thats why i play it

[oak tangle]

i 100% do not have 24 buttons bound

[balmy condor]

You don’t have detection keybound? Smh my head man

[vague widget]

Ye olde swirly ball.

[balmy condor]

I don’t think I could come up with 24 abilities off the top of my head

[oak tangle]

i top out at 18/19

[royal lantern]

rogue has a couple of abilitys that people bind to keys, but you can just click

[oak tangle]

and that's with double on use trinkets and exsang raid spec

[royal lantern]

like, you dont need a keybind for shroud/disract, just put it in a sidebar and click ol

[balmy condor]

2 trinkets, mutilate garrote rupture is 5, envenom ambush ct is 8, slice and dice is 9, potion 10… uhhh… shiv 11, Deathmark thistle tea vanish is 14, bone spike 15, er 16… errrr…… exsang 17

I’m running out of abilities hold on

[vague widget]

Are you applying all 4 poisons on separate keybinds?

[royal lantern]

no

[balmy condor]

Oh, defensives

[royal lantern]

i just put the poison bar itself in a sidebar

[flint gulch]

Im using a DtB build currently but maybe i should give Sub a try for change of pace. Outlaw looks like your hands will never rest

[royal lantern]

cus that includes all poisons avaible lol

[balmy condor]

Cloak evasions feint 20, vial 21

Lock gate 22?

[oak tangle]

unbound cloak gamer here

dont kill me

[balmy condor]

I could probably get to 24

But it’s rough

[vague widget]

We won't have to Memz the spell will. Sadge

[flint gulch]

Is there a way apply 4 poisons at once

[balmy condor]

Yeah, open the bar and click 4 times

[oak tangle]

click them with your mouse and have them off to the side, they are once an hour things do not bind them

[balmy condor]

Binding atrophic is such a gamer move though

Imagine

I have a friend that has fishing and disenchant on permanent keybinds

That’s huge cock energy

[flint gulch]

I have my modfier key bound to my mouse but im to slow to have more than one

[brazen zodiac]

when u use 4 different type of finishing reagents u gotta lmao

[balmy condor]

Oh no

[brazen zodiac]

esp since some either increase base skill for insp OR increase insp % overall too confusing

[balmy condor]

Jez got to you

We lost another one to that witch

[brazen zodiac]

all im saying is when i use a finishing reagent i think im getting 44% insp not 42% with 8 additioanl bonus skill applied

[oak tangle]

these are all my keybinds

[brazen zodiac]

and i am hurt

[brazen zodiac]

that i dont provide that 2%

[tacit otter]

the sun is bright today

[oak tangle]

hdr makes game wonky

[balmy condor]

That’s the power of hdr baby

[grim tangle]

I just click everything

[balmy condor]

We have a guildie who plays on hdr and his screenshots harness the direct radiation of solar flares

That shit will burn your retinas

[flint gulch]

Is there a macro to apply 2 poisons at once so that i could free up 2 buttons

[balmy condor]

Just Click them

They don’t need binds

You do it once an hour

[oak tangle]

i would have to restart wow with hdr off otherwise i'd jsut turn it off for a screen

have a bar like this

[tacit otter]

it doesnt matter anymore, dont worry. lost half of my eye sight anyway

[royal lantern]

why make 5 slots for poisons

like jesus

just grab the poison general thing from your skillbook, and thats it

[balmy condor]

Jesus was the water to wine guy

[oak tangle]

i have a g9 oddyse and about a million miles of screen real estate to fill

[balmy condor]

Not big on poisons

[oak tangle]

that bar is off in a corner

literal right side of my monitor is a 'mini'map

[flint gulch]

Note still WiP

Is there build that needs less active abilities

[tacit otter]

i like gaps:)

[royal lantern]

drop exsang for improved poisons, 1 button less

gotta accept that you do less dmg then

[oak tangle]

The only way I could put in a more scuffed ui pic

[balmy condor]

Minimap too small

[royal lantern]

stuff like that is why i cant take "omg standart UI is so bad xd" people serious

cus they create abomination like that

[flint gulch]

a lot of stuff in my ui phases out since my senses have nasty tency of sensory overload so i need to cut down the amount of info on the screen

[royal lantern]

disable friendly names/your own maybe?

i mean, thats just a bunch of blue names on your screen that you dont really need, fits "amount of info that needs to be cut" in my opinion

[flint gulch]

its mostly moving stuff that poses a issue

and audio

[tacit oracle]

The fastest thing I'd remove is your 2nd chat window. Throw it on a tab.

[flint gulch]

my left chat window is phased out by my DpS meter in combat

[tacit oracle]

If you want less sensory static, then you probably dont need to be NSA levels of chat monitoring

[flint gulch]

I kinda want to try Sub at some point i havent given that spec proper try but i dont know if its more or less complicated than Assa.

[distant swift]

which phials do i use?

[thorn crater]

btw what are your guys' thoughts on the cr bracers without being engi? for or against?

[royal lantern]

right now? less

2button spec in dungeons

[oak tangle]

less buttons, more rotationally important

equal utility keybinds

[royal lantern]

ye sub is like

you have your 5 abilitys

and a very very set rotation

its not hard to do it, but if you fuck it up for some reason, the punishment is bigger

but like, its not hard to fuck it up after 1hour lol

[oak tangle]

you can bind more things together too on sub, which helps lower binds too

[shrewd night]

Imagine not having it as a macro

smh

[lusty surge]

Any Opie ring enjoyers?

Gesture based binds are the truth

[oak tangle]

"alexa, cast deadly poison"

you imagine voice commands on outlaw

[jade abyss]

Haha

You starting to rap o.o

[flint gulch]

id wish we had neural interfaces already where where can control characters with thinking the commands alone

[storm forum]

thank god I dont have that. I think about doing dumb stuff all the time. "what if I just shadowstep to the other group during raz shield?"

[brittle burrow]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[royal lantern]

yell "HEALER CHECK", cloak and do it

[ebon notch]

i did that once

i fatfingered step

ran off in a random direction

blew up 1/4 of the raid

[jolly holly]

i may have done that once evoker healing on heroic raz whistles

[storm forum]

[flint gulch]

When i played Shadow priest it almost felt like Ranged Assa

[green juniper]

I feel like I could run CoS with a ST build

[viscid spear]

[steel ridge]

you can absolutely do that

[storm onyx]

CoS, HoV, SBG

[oak tangle]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/frostmourne/mèmz

What slot should i craft a 418 in

[storm onyx]

Run a droptimizer with proffession gear?

[strange python]

If this is my sim, what % of that should i realistically be hitting in a raid? I know it differs from fight to fight a bit but what's realistic from this

[flint gulch]

How close are Assa and Sub in ST?

[oak tangle]

oooh good shout

[uncut echo]

Sub's a couple thousand ahead.

[storm onyx]

Also valor cap removal will let you upgrade all slots; so may need to run gear compare too

[flint gulch]

Is Orc the best overall Race for Rogue?

[oak tangle]

i feel like a ring would be best. cause free socket, will see what sims say

Vulpera cause you get a 4th spec

[storm onyx]

Really there is no set % to that, it differs wildly according to your raid setup, tactics, your post etc

[strange python]

I just see people better than me other classes, with less gear or similar doing like 70+ and i'm stuck around 55k in an actual raid

[storm onyx]

is that overall dmg?

[oak tangle]

I sim for 80k i do 72k on terros

[storm onyx]

or Boss?

[strange python]

55k on last boss (diurna)

i was on boss full time never adds

[oak tangle]

imo diurna is almost useless to compare on

[storm onyx]

You will have lesser dmg on her if you are going to platforms

also, even if you dont; others get padding on platform mobs

[oak tangle]

i did 60k on brood, but i was also runnign eggs

[strange python]

how lol i'm 402 and feel like i'm way behind where i should be damage wise

[storm onyx]

Ah Brood.. my bad

[strange python]

like, im feel like the rotations are not that complicated, so im unsure where i could be fucking it up so badly lol

[oak tangle]

try sticking the logs into wowanalyser

[storm onyx]

Yea, you are there for sitting on Boss as Assa; you kill the boss while rest of raid is dealing with waves

They do lots of Aoe

[strange python]

@oak tangle i didn't realize that was a thing ty

[oak tangle]

but for the most part is boils down to this.

overcapping on cp
overcapping on energy
refreshing dots before pandemic window

if you can avoid all three of the above you really shouldn't lose too much

[strange python]

Can i get the "log" from Details! damage meter?

[oak tangle]

no warcraftlogs.com

[strange python]

ah ok ty, yeah i don't THINK i'm overcappint on cp but I probably am, I'm def not an expert at getting the anima charge setup all the time

[storm onyx]

Low CP finishers cost dearly as well if you have a tendency

[normal olive]

!neck

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.

[lusty surge]

Biggest thing I saw from wowa was how many casts of shiv I was losing

Helped me readjust so I was always ready to slam it on cd

[strange python]

i'll def take a look cause something is wrong i just can't really figure out what

I appreciate all the help though you all have been awesome!

[oak tangle]

definitely search your character name on warcraftlogs, someone else might have been logging some fights you've done

[indigo wing]

is it really less dps to fan on less then 4 targets when using dragon

[flint gulch]

Is M+ a huge time investment? I doubt i would enjoy Raiding with randos also the times i play are the reverse what most guilds do i play in morning hour the most while im at gym in the evening

[oak tangle]

from your historical request of playstyle for the game, m+ will require more of your utility tool kit than any other content

[flint gulch]

Yeah

[storm onyx]

We FoK at 3 targets

[flint gulch]

Static raidgroups pose the issue me not having the time to have many responsibilities torwards the game and random groups would drive me up a wall

[strange python]

So it looks like i'm wasting a ton of energy which feels crazy b/c i feel like i'm always out lol

[oak tangle]

could be using tea too early?

[strange python]

In one fight I did, in another i had green across I'll just have to watch it better

also i'm not using vanish enough 😛 lots of good info here

[oak tangle]

oh vanish 100% should be used on cooldown with deathmark

it's the one part of our dps that is an actual rotation

[strange python]

i usually use it on start like the rotation says, but I guess i'm forgetting after that

[oak tangle]

every 2 mins you should be using vanish > garrote > deathmark
every 4 mins should be vanish >garrote > exsanguinate > deathmark

you can use a castsequence macro to cycle through them if it helps to remember. but if you dont you should definitely get a weakaura or something to track your cooldowns

[storm onyx]

Do you have a good UI setup? tracking your CDs, dots etc makes big difference.

You would forget/miss Cds if you dont realize they are back up easily

[oak tangle]

can also make it extremely easy to tell if a dot is in pandemic or not

[strange python]

i use elvui and hekili

[midnight moat]

Is there any best alternative talent(s) to Thistle Tea for more casual playstyle with MORE downtime?
In any situation between Raid, M+, Open World content.

[gray hazel]

Do the sims take in account the proc from lariat?

[subtle tundra]

No bro

Sims are worthless they don't work

Everyone telling you to sim is lying

[vestal wren]

XD

sim does simulate the proc correct

!neck

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.

[vestal wren]

^ is a good help to know what can proc

[storm onyx]

Does Fierydemise still write analysis articles?

[languid adder]

How many combo points are u aiming for, when using Echoing Reprimand? 🙂

[steel ridge]

why does that matter?

you use it on cd as long as you dont meet the finishing rule

[storm onyx]

If you want to land on an Animacharged CP, you ER on 0 CP

[languid adder]

Finishing rule? 🙂

[vestal wren]

fiery is still involved with RH, but more as a founder of the server on a organisation level

[storm onyx]

Ah thanks

[vestal wren]

feiry was before my time, i joined around the time aethys was active(Legion).
We grew from there, now we have a lot more people contributing

Koji and me are probably the ones longest around that are still active

[storm onyx]

I used to read his posts on indepth anlysis of talents in Nax era; was great

Fun and helpful

Yea, chnl and all content is a treasure tbf

[vestal wren]

the community grew from irc to discord

and discord evolved over time

[flint gulch]

I wish is was here when i was more skilled at this game but discord didnt exist when i still was.

[vestal wren]

if you played on a higher level before

it shouldn't be a issue to get back to a higher level

just about being willing to improve and having the time to practice and gear up

[flint gulch]

I cant get back to that level anymore it would cost me to much these days since games arent my main focus anymore. And i did well because of the people i played with we had extremly good synergie and well i was addicted to the game and focused on a singular class and spec.

It was consuming our social lifes thats why we disbanded

[vestal wren]

i think it is perfectly fine to not play at the very top

the most important thing is that you have fun

[flint gulch]

I play to much different classes so i lack focus

[sudden canyon]

any1 got a build for low keys where shit dies too quick.

is it just "take flying daggers"

maybe an AP build ?

[subtle tundra]

huh

there's only ic

[balmy condor]

It’s called doing higher keys

[gaunt moat]

if things die too quickly, does it even matter

[sudden canyon]

no but ego

[tribal vale]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[dreamy gull]

I used to play the raid kingsbane build in dungeons

Cause I didn't realize mythic build was for dungeons

[scarlet sequoia]

@balmy condor do u hold deathmark for exsang

[balmy condor]

Other way around

[scarlet sequoia]

ok so deathmark is on cd

[spice spire]

Ye

[limber lion]

Ye

[pallid jay]

playing sin for the first time since bfa, how much damage am i losing in keys if I don't get restealths (spiteful)

[keen spruce]

ye

[cinder gull]

xd

[scarlet sequoia]

np

[balmy condor]

You’re gaining dps padding on them usually

[pallid jay]

I see, I guess in general it's not too terrible that I don't get restealths for shrouded suffocation?

[odd flax]

trying a few offspec sin keys. which poisons should I have up at m+?

[ebon notch]

how come ur playing assa

[scarlet sequoia]

bored of sub for now

need to switch it up a bit on farm

else it gets very boring very fast

[indigo wing]

@vestal wren sorry to ping you fuu but i just wanted to confirm FoK even when running DTB is what you use on 3+ right? not 4?

i dont want to feelcraft, when i sim it throws a few fans here and there but when im in game dps is higher 3+ if i fan instead of stopping

[gusty mirage]

you use fok on 3+

regardless of talents

[peak basin]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[peak basin]

Is it suggested to run Corrupting Rage phial still for raiding?

Nvm, it says not recommended. Whoops

[gusty mirage]

it's fine for farm

iffy af for prog

[sudden canyon]

ye

[balmy condor]

it's 3+

also feel free to ping me instead for sin stuff at this time, fuu's EU

so he's doing a lil sleep right now

[indigo wing]

thanks whispyr

[gusty mirage]

damn

I got ignored

[oak sky]

i will never ignore you i love you even if other people ignore you

[gusty mirage]

thanks man

[indigo wing]

thank you aswell ❤️

[sullen hedge]

is sub just straight up better than assass in single target? i sim 5-6k more in sub than i do in assass

they have the same stat prio so it shouldn't be stats

[upper crown]

definitely doing something wrong, do you have a puzzlebox?

[gaunt moat]

no, but it's pretty close in a lot of encounters

[sullen hedge]

i don't, i have spiraling winds and storm eaters

both sims are with mythic+ builds

[upper crown]

oh right, in M+ builds yeah, sub is just ahead of sin

[vagrant brook]

sub simmed higher for me until i got puzzle box and some more gear with haste + haste rune (in pure single target)

[upper crown]

I don't think the gap should be that high, a puzzlebox would definitely close the gap

[sullen hedge]

ahh does sin need to specify in st to do st moreso than sub?

[upper crown]

Yeah that's the basic gist of it, sub loses less talenting into aoe

but sin pulls a bit ahead going full st talents

[sullen hedge]

ahh okay, ty ty

[dreamy gull]

deathmark is hard for me to use

its hard to judge when a target is priority enough

obviously you want it up for bosses

[balmy condor]

slam it on cooldown on the biggest mfer in the pack

[dreamy gull]

i guess my issue with that is im at a difficulty where everything dies really easy

[balmy condor]

yeh

I mean if things are dying too quick, then you're beating the timer anyways

so

no harm I guess

[narrow adder]

You could switch to sub or outlaw, they aren't as reliant on stuff living to get your dots rolling.

[indigo wing]

i've fully stacked mastery and rely on dot damage and i top charts all the time at around 100k

in M+

BMQAAWulQAmRd/c4Iy2r7VOUFIkkkkEJUSAAAAAAAkEAJCAAAAAAANSiDUSCJJJpkSiAJBRCA

[balmy condor]

that's nice

[indigo wing]

grab something like mythic dungeon tools, you can check hp on mobs see when you can DM and make sure its up on CD for bosses

[gray hazel]

Do poison bombs procs stack?

[balmy condor]

yeah

[indigo wing]

is there anyway to use kingsbane at all in M+?

someone have a test build?

[slow marsh]

No

Dance is better than kb

[balmy condor]

kingsbane is just dtb but worse

[slow marsh]

But dance also isn't a burst CD by any means so no real point for it

The sucky thing is that I feel like in order for kb to return they'd have to super buff it and probably break something else

[woeful meteor]

Yep only way to make it competitive in its current slot is to buff it a lot or nerf dtb

[indigo wing]

or just revert the changes....that would be nice xD

[gaunt moat]

We're gonne get reverted for 0.7 believe it datebayyo

[slow marsh]

I would like to see them build and expand on what they have said they were gonna work on but yeah if they're gonna ghost us then revert the kb thing imo

AP is pointless without additional support and idk how they would pull that off

[spring fern]

im new to the spec, what should our damage breakdown look like in a key? i want to make sure im doing it right haha - Garrote>rupture>fan? or should CT be higher up?

[narrow adder]

getting a rupture up is good for venomous wounds to start rolling

Oh I misread that, nvm

[gaunt moat]

well AP location is horribly misplaced in the talent tree
they didn't want to re-work the whole tree as that would probably issue many balance testing
so we're kinda stuck with it until an assassination rework

[slow marsh]

Yeah

[gaunt moat]

anyday now

[slow marsh]

I wouldn't say AP is located in a bad spot per se, more that other stuff is in dumb spots

If blindside+ the other st talent weren't straight line required to get to AP it'd be a bit different

It's more the stuff above zoldyck imo

[gaunt moat]

20% bleed buff as a final node is bad and boring imo.

[slow marsh]

I agree

20% bleed buff for 9 seconds every 25 seconds

When improved garrote , shrouded, and the improved bleeds in general are all stronger

[gaunt moat]

usually you'd reserve final nodes to either playstyle-changing passive, strong actives or something that "enables" the spec.

[slow marsh]

And not capstone's

It seems like lazy copy paste, maybe it was rushed

They maybe had a cool idea but didn't have time so went with that

[gaunt moat]

yeah, my criticism of it was "oh another 20% bleed buff. haven't seen that before"
except half our other talents and tier set hah

[slow marsh]

My thing is 20% is weird when our other bleed amps are stronger and not capstones and not attached to a 25s cd

[keen spruce]

AP -> shrouded spot
Shrouded -> exang spot
exang --> AP spot

tune accordingly until exang gets deleted and replaced with a real capstone

ez pz

[woeful meteor]

they already basically said in beta, that kingsbane was gonna loose his spot eventually, idk why they did now and without pairing it with some bigger changes

[gaunt moat]

and this one qualifier relies on having multiple garrotes up, which without IC, is VERY hard maintain on 4 targets.
but not only that, they put it on the opposite side of IC, so taking both will nuke your ST damage

[keen spruce]

Lethal dose leading into AP makes sense
imp garrote leading into shrouded makes sense
Exang as a capstone for now makes more sense than it's current location at least

[indigo wing]

what about tiny tox

[gaunt moat]

i don't really get that talent at all. remove it?

[keen spruce]

tiny tox and lightweight shiv are on the left already there's at least some synergy there

[slow marsh]

Why they put an absolute useless legendary as a 3rd to last talent idk

[keen spruce]

tiny tox kinda lame anyways

[oak sky]

dont you remember that tiny tox was originally the capstone there

[keen spruce]

feels more pvpish

[oak sky]

before we begged for kingsbane back

[slow marsh]

No I don't

[oak sky]

and venom rush was right before it

and there was no blindside connection

[slow marsh]

I was in and out during that time

[oak sky]

ye

ttb was a capstone

and vw was where shrouded suffocation is now

[slow marsh]

It made me lol then I was like yeah that won't work I'll come back and look later

I remember the vw thing

[keen spruce]

vw that far down the tree is kinda criminal

[oak sky]

and sbs didnt exist

[oak sky]

its just incorrect

like

the spec doesnt exist without that talent

and it would REQUIRE us always pathing to that spot in the tree

[slow marsh]

It doesn't exist without seal fate and uhh....

[oak sky]

under all circumstances

oh yeah improved poison application was stealth poison application i think

i wanna say cttc wasnt on the tree

[oak tangle]

oi sockets can only be on head wrist belt and rings yeah?

[oak sky]

yes

and neck

3 on neck

[slow marsh]

I would just like some communication again

[oak sky]

i wouldnt expect any until 10.1 ptr

tbh

if ever

[slow marsh]

Yeah that's my point tho

[oak sky]

realz hasnt been around much in a while

[slow marsh]

Just any kind of affirmation that we aren't being ghosted and that they're gonna make sub a full spec would be nice

[oak sky]

from what i understand more changes outside exsang are on the list for us

idk about sub tho

[balmy condor]

we aren't being ghosted

[slow marsh]

Well that's good

Maybe all the hoopla with ret and shaman and frost dk just has me feeling left out

[oak sky]

gonna hazard a guess and say hes aware of problems people have and is gonna be addressing them in a coming patch and will probably communicate when he has actual changes ready

they might only have so much bandwidth for .0.7

everyone else can show up in .1

[slow marsh]

Yeah

[oak sky]

like we know we arent being ignored

they probably just want to have something to show off and get feedback on

[gaunt moat]

So many changes I'd like to see in assassination (disregarding damage balance):
🔸 Remove Slice and Dice, make it baseline. This is a nothing maintenance buff.
🔸 Rework/Remove Exsanguinate - Preferably to have passive faster ticks or proc chance for faster ticks.
🔸 Rearrange the talent tree to make more sense (not gating Ironwire behind Exsang. Arterial precision on the same side as Carnage)
🔸 Carnage having shorter cooldown.
🔸 And this is non specific, but allowing sin for stronger cleaving potential.

[oak tangle]

at thend of the day, rogue has 3 specs that cover all the content well. imagine the poor classes that are trash at all specs

[slow marsh]

Like?

[oak tangle]

ret pally

so it makes sense their effort is going there

[slow marsh]

You said classes

[oak tangle]

dps class sorry

[oak sky]

like

[oak tangle]

you aint seeing a holy pally doing dps

[slow marsh]

That's still a spec

[oak sky]

thats literally no excuse for having bad design

lmao

[oak tangle]

(this xpac)

[slow marsh]

Not class but all good

[oak tangle]

idk i really dont think assass has bad design

[oak sky]

kingsbane being useless is good design

true

[oak tangle]

it's a minor inconvenience

[oak sky]

ttk

[slow marsh]

Having AoE talents gated behind st is good design I'm sure

[oak tangle]

comparatively

[wind dune]

Bro you have to talent 15 of your fucking talent points just to do subpar aoe wym it doesn't got bad design

[oak sky]

3 point nodes

AP not really being usable

sepsis being useless

[slow marsh]

IC on opposite side of the 3 AoE talents

Having 3 AoE talents

[oak sky]

shadow dance doing literally nothing in the class tree

[slow marsh]

2 on fan and fan is still mid af

[oak tangle]

right, i am not saying that they are good design, i'm just saying we can make do with what we have

while waiting for changes

[oak sky]

make do was fine for the start of the expansion

[oak tangle]

because other specs have it worse

[slow marsh]

Clearly we can because we have great info and great TC so we have the most information

[oak sky]

make do doesnt cut it long term

[slow marsh]

Other specs like what tho

[oak sky]

maybe survival

[slow marsh]

Cuz ret isn't valid it's getting an entire rework for asking for 2 things

[oak sky]

wowie

[slow marsh]

Survival is top st dps

Has no utility sure but it's literally top melee st

[oak sky]

priest are somewhat down bad for mobility

that could count

monk has the statues?

[slow marsh]

Priest does need help true that's like the only one I can think is valid

[oak sky]

but like no matter how you slice it we're one of the most down bad specs rn i think

[oak tangle]

are you guys actually going to argue that assass is dumpster tier?

[oak sky]

flawed design

not dumpster tier

[slow marsh]

It's not CN tier yet

And probably won't be

[oak sky]

we do good boss damage (cant do any aoe ever)

[slow marsh]

Assassination I would say is bottom 5 across all specs maybe ?

That being said, all specs are closish from what I've seen (like a 10% spread?) So it doesn't feel quite as bad as in the past

[oak tangle]

idk i just have acompletely different view point. that having to choose between st and aoe is a good thing

and while we do ST we are very strong at it

[slow marsh]

Yeah I would agree if that choice resulted in good things

We choose AoE and are still mediocre

[oak tangle]

If we were given a talent tree where we didnt have to choose to spec between them, I would enjoy the game less

[oak sky]

we arent stellar at either, and the game doesnt favor classes that are extremely binary

[slow marsh]

We choose st and are top mid

[oak tangle]

not necessarily

[slow marsh]

Before .5 we were in the top for st but now we're back in the middle of the pack

So yes it feels bad

[oak tangle]

you should deffs look at at least 90% parses

[slow marsh]

Lol ok

[oak sky]

yeah we're actually 5th on terros

nerf territory

and only

25th

in overall dps

[slow marsh]

5th in st with 3 of the other 4 being able to do respectable cleave damage

[oak sky]

lets pray for next raid to have 10 patchwerk fights

think about it

[slow marsh]

And the one other that can only do st is top

Like the KB build was actually nice cuz it filled a niche and if we had the same build currently we could at least cope on it

[oak sky]

if we could take zoldyck with dtb/ic it would be kind of insane

[slow marsh]

Yeah

[oak sky]

just idk

theres a lot of cool possibilities

that i wish we could have

[slow marsh]

Pathing and placement just cucks us

[spice spire]

real

[steel ridge]

Its time to revert the nerfs isnt it?

[sudden canyon]

in regards to exsang, make it a buff on the rogue that increases all their bleeds tick rate.

Do you think they not do that becuase of cleave scenarios letting you have exsang running on all bleed targets

They could also just make it a debuff on the target that "causes it to suffer from your bleed damage at 100% the rate"

Also IC cooldown can be fixed by adding "casting a bleed reduces the cooldown of this spell by .5 seconds" or maybe even 1 second. i think a 30sec IC is fine

if they didnt just wanna make it 30 seconds CD in mean.

[gaunt moat]

I'm not hyped for the idea of a self buff (which in affect, would make exsang an AoE/cleave)
because considering the trouble they have balancing exsang on a ST, i don't want to have 5 minutes CD on it

[sudden canyon]

what about re-working so that its a proc similar to EP where finishers trigger Exsang for a couple of seconds

[marble hemlock]

Why

Are people

Trying to make exsanguinate work

[sudden canyon]

becuz blizzard isnt

[marble hemlock]

When the ability is fucking dogshit beyond repair

And just needs to be removed

[marble hemlock]

Huh? It works for what it's supposed to do

[gaunt moat]

That would be counter-productive.

1. you don't cast that many bleeds
2. you DO cast bleeds once the bleeds from IC drop, at which point, you won't really wanna use IC again because you've already got bleed on them.

[marble hemlock]

It's a mediocre st cooldown. It's not supposed to be more. You just want it to be

[sudden canyon]

personally i prefer that nature damage focused sin instead of the bleed stuff.

[marble hemlock]

I don't know why people struggle to understand that AOE exsanguinate wouldn't even be good

wanna fix assa cleave/aoe? remove crimson tempest. thats a start. and then work from there

[sudden canyon]

i like the idea of AP.

[gaunt moat]

I'll add another point i forgot to cleaving potential
🔸 Give sin replicating shadows for rupture

[marble hemlock]

fuck that

make IC a finisher

and put it into t3 or 4

not a capstone

you know, how every other dot class has it

[sudden canyon]

Did you guys ever use that Torgast sepsis buff that allowed it to spread

[marble hemlock]

primal wrath is literally a T2 talent for feral

[sudden canyon]

that with AP sounds 👌

[marble hemlock]

shadow crash/dark void are super early in the shadow tree as well

[sudden canyon]

https://www.wowdb.com/spells/343245-backup-poison-injectors

https://www.wowdb.com/spells/343237-boiling-poison-sores

[marble hemlock]

and i hate to break it to you but a conditional 25% damage amp isnt gonna make assa do comparable cleave/aoe to what other classes can put out

we're not missing

20 or 30% to do competitive cleave

its more like 50 or 100%

considering we're a multidot class, youd expect assa to not just be competitive, but actually superior on 2-4t cleave

but the spec has major design issues that were introduced half a decade ago with shit abilities like exsanguinate or crimson tempest, that need to be removed before the spec can be improved

[sudden canyon]

why are they so detrimental iyo?

[marble hemlock]

exsanguinate sucks because it doesnt do shit by itself, it only works in conjunction with other CDs. so right now its decent because of how it interacts with deathmark, it used to be decent in BFA due to temporary amps like SS, BotE/Galecallers etc.

CT sucks because its an non-st finisher that splits its damage between instant and DoT

recasting it pre pandemic makes you lose out on the dot portion of the finisher, and while they buffed the instant hit to be good enough that its worth spamming, its still not a good aoe or cleave finisher for assa

check out feral if you wanna see what assa should be but isnt

[gaunt moat]

I 'member
Legion Hotfix (2016-08-08): Exsanguinate now causes bleeds to tick 100% faster, down from 400% faster.

[steel ridge]

Take my money

[steel ridge]

This

[sudden canyon]

how would that work with CPs? like a CT that applies Rupture & Garrote at certain durrations based on combopoints

[steel ridge]

having feral bleed application would instantly fix sin

[steel ridge]

Primal wrath and smart rake

[marble hemlock]

feral has:
-primal wrath -> aoe finisher that applies rip to all targets (not capped)
-talent that makes it deal instant damage if rip is already active
-capstone that makes rip ticks have a chance to grant free max CP ferocious bites
-talent that makes ferocious bite deal a portion of its damage to all targets affected by rip
-talent that reduces incarn cd when spending CP
-talent that makes reapplications of rip apply another dot that deals 15% of its damage
-rake applies to a second target

oh and half of that shit

is in the first 4-5 tiers

[balmy condor]

Our feral crushes diurna adds

It’s kinda ridiculous

[steel ridge]

feral is almost perfect

[marble hemlock]

remove CT, make IC a finisher, put it in t3 or t4, and then you can explore the specs multidot and cleave capabilities more by putting actually meaningful shit into t8-10 that isnt stuff thats required for the spec to work, but actually makes it good at what its supposed to be good at

right now we have a bunch of crutches in t8-10, and then no way to scale that potential further

[gaunt moat]

how's feral ST?

[steel ridge]

Our too, i just turn off add nameplates on bosses since they just implode

[steel ridge]

Not utter garbage, serviceable

[marble hemlock]

basically, the entire feral tree is one massive bulk of talents that make one ability synergize with another. bite makes rip deal more damage. rip ticks give you free bites. casting different builders makes your rip/bite deal more damage. casting bite cleaves on rip targets. rake gets +1 target etc

now tell me

what are the synergies between rupture and envenom

or garrote and rupture

or garrote and envenom

or CT and any of them

[steel ridge]

Sin has no synergies

[marble hemlock]

2% more damage from lethal dose, i guess

[gaunt moat]

i see it's not that far behind Sin

[steel ridge]

Everything is just flat modifiers

[oak tangle]

improved garrote:
garrote deals 50% more damage and applies to up to 8 enemies within 10 yards.
If garrote is applied to more than 1 target the damage bonus is not applied

and then jsut put something more useful in IC's place

[marble hemlock]

the alternative would be to look at shadow, which instead of using a builder/cp system, simply has their own version of IC for both shadowword pain and vampiric touch

[steel ridge]

Doesnt solve the restealth issue

[oak tangle]

could put an alternate or condition thing liek vanish or something where IC is

[marble hemlock]

but their SW:P spread is capped to 15 targets, and their VT one is capped to 8. neither of them are capstones, in fact, you pick them up early

and they have the same thing of mind blast, voidbolt etc. all affecting targets that have dots up as well

and lo and behold

[oak tangle]

that has both ST and aoe value

[marble hemlock]

what are the 2 most played classes in MDI atm on massive pulls?

shadow and feral. go figure.

[steel ridge]

😄

[gaunt moat]

as i've said before
half our talents are just "bleed deals 20% more damage"
even our tier does that
it's pretty lame

[marble hemlock]

oh and unholy dk

3 dot classes that actually have good dots

and can spread them easily

[steel ridge]

sin rework needed

[marble hemlock]

meanwhile our bleeds suck, our bleed spread is capped at fewer targets than competitor dot specs, is a capstone while theirs isnt, and has a higher cooldown. and were not allowed to do good ST either cuz someone might cry about rogue being good. lovely.

[oak tangle]

new spell:

your next # of abilities are cast as if in stealth and with double the combo points

[steel ridge]

you speak from my heart

[gaunt moat]

you already know what they're gonna answer you:
"But you've got other specs"

[steel ridge]

The whole more damage from stealth has to go... silence is fine

[gaunt moat]

that's not gonna happen
sin has been using vanish as an offensive CD for ages

(yet we can't have 2 charges)

[steel ridge]

Which is stupid

vanish is utility/survival

[oak tangle]

oh no guys if we get two charges we'll use vanish to garrote at a random point between deathmark and not do all that much more damage

[gaunt moat]

BROKEN

[steel ridge]

rn is dont feel like doing dungeons on rogue at all

[oak tangle]

what if, they just removed the 5s cd from garrote

[gaunt moat]

when did they even add that
wasn't like that in legion

[marble hemlock]

tomb set bonus

[steel ridge]

Never understood that one

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/Jz4xe/8519a8950d.png

but thats because

it used to have 15sec cd in legion

so it was still 3sec

same as it is now

[gaunt moat]

isn't it 6 seconds now?

[steel ridge]

Rake has no cd and is better

[gaunt moat]

https://tenor.com/view/wanna-kill-myself-the-office-michael-scott-steve-carell-frustrated-gif-13414030

Me when I'm vanishing while Garrote is on CD

[steel ridge]

Happening all the time

[oak tangle]

how about this for an aoe finisher

your direct damage abilities embed blades in the target

use this ability to rip all blades from the target doing # damage per cp

[steel ridge]

Too. Slow

you need instant bleed application

Reliable

[loud silo]

idk why yall are talking like blizzard actually gives a single fuck about rogue lmao

sorry bad wording

hoping that they will give a fuck*

[steel ridge]

actually i might just go feral until 10.1, luckily my druid has 410 ilvl

[gaunt moat]

Because now that we're at the bottom of DPS chart
we're gonna get that sweet sweet 5%

we're gonna get 4 anima charged CPs back

[steel ridge]

lmao

everyone knew the nerfs where unjustified after exsang nerf

[oak tangle]

i liked the exsang nerf cause it meant i didn't need to play it. I dislike the KB nerf cause it means i have to play exsang again

[steel ridge]

Meanwhile everything else got mad buffs

[indigo wing]

i used to love outlaw it was my fav pirate and all, nerfed, switched to sub ninja dope cool but st meh, then i went to sin, my life changed but now i find that if i want to play good in aoe its stack mastery for poisons and funnel aoe

i've done back to back to back sims to see if maybe changing to haste would make it better but nope

makes 0 difference

[steel ridge]

Bm Hunters are stronger ST than we ever were

[oak tangle]

maybe devs think we will scale with haste like every other expac

[loud silo]

is this all this xpac or?

[gaunt moat]

I know what's gonna save us

1 second

[loud silo]

haste loses value with more targets due to energy overcapping

[gaunt moat]

OUR SAVIOUR

[indigo wing]

i stopped playing wow and rogue after wrath i came back in legion to rogue and then i stopped playing in bfa and shadowlands after season 1 i always play the first season of every expac but this expac has brought me so much joy playing, but i have a disability so playing a class like sin is easy on my hands

[loud silo]

i was just wondering about the outlaw "nerfs" you meant

[indigo wing]

yea right now at 406 im simming around 75k

[loud silo]

they were pretty small and wasnt worth rerolling but its each to their own

[indigo wing]

and thats all straight mastery 52% without puzzle with 93

[loud silo]

idk much about sin for m+ tbh

[oak tangle]

to be fair, up to 20's i am comparable with other dps

[indigo wing]

the think with outlaw was that the playstyle was amazing prenerf after that having to adapt CB just kinda lost interest

[gaunt moat]

Just IMAGINE
You use mutilate, you have a chance to crit, and that has a chance to deal 9300 per crit!!!
THE WORTH

[oak tangle]

obviously above it feels we start to cap out

[loud silo]

yeah i get that, overall damage wise the nerf was whatever but the playstyle does feel weird atm

honestly not a huge fan of FTH

[steel ridge]

Eye beamer says hello

[loud silo]

soz boys i know this is the sin channel lmao

[steel ridge]

Those gems are going to be the biggest shitshow

[indigo wing]

blizzard just needs to do one thing make the left side of a tree aoe a right st and the middle is where you blend

[gaunt moat]

there's also
Prodigious Sand Stone: Being near 3 enemies stirs up a sandstorm, dealing Nature damage to nearby enemies.

[oak tangle]

maybe blizz knows they are giving us a popping 10.1 tier set and are lining us up for that

[gaunt moat]

and you know what increases nature damage???? SHIV

THAT'S RIGHT, WE CAN BUFF OUR NATURE DAMAGE

INSANE

[steel ridge]

Or they abandoned the class entirely

[indigo wing]

if they did im fucked

i wanted to go into mdi season 2

[balmy condor]

The ring ilvl gives me hope

That it’s just some dogshit catchup or special little thing

[indigo wing]

teams ready im the rogue if we get shaftd imma have to start gearing now something else

[balmy condor]

Like the cobalt assembly ring

[steel ridge]

I hope you are right

[gaunt moat]

still not convinced??
well here you gotta to top it off, our 3rd nature damage!

[balmy condor]

That’s my cope

My cope is i don’t have to farm gems for a 390 ring

With no secondaries

[oak tangle]

unironically, would that not be great with AP

[steel ridge]

[balmy condor]

It doesn’t interact with AP

[oak tangle]

sadge

[gaunt moat]

AP increases bleeds only

[oak tangle]

i mean more, it does the 14k to all 5 taregets

[gaunt moat]

i wish those gems would at least have applied a DoT, then this would have been better

but no, other than shiv, there's no synergy

[balmy condor]

It wouldn’t work with that either

Borrowed power doesn’t interact with spec mechanics

Shiv doesn’t increase nature damage from trinkets, and it won’t increase nature damage from the gems either

[gaunt moat]

lame

I bet we'll be taking fire gems for ring

[balmy condor]

Rogue spells affect rogue spells

If it’s not a rogue spell, it doesn’t synergize

[loud silo]

i think the only exception is outlaw with ghostly strike

[gaunt moat]

i forgot more things than you've learned

[slow marsh]

Damage procs on gems. They've never done that before have they?

[oak tangle]

i swear MA worked on trinkets and spears in SL though

[balmy condor]

[loud silo]

because ma gives you stats

[balmy condor]

Already forgot sanctum

Korthia blocked from memory

[loud silo]

wasnt x amount of crit for abilities, it was just x amount of crit

[balmy condor]

Yeah and then they quickly fixed that

[slow marsh]

OH YEAH THATS RIGHT IT WAS TRASH

[balmy condor]

That didn’t live even half way through season 1

[gaunt moat]

@slow marsh I used to play up to legion.

[loud silo]

meanwhile fire mage was melting half a dungeon for the rest of the xpac

in a single combust*

[slow marsh]

Nice! I started in CN

I played in classic and bc and wrath but not serious

And quit in cata

[gaunt moat]

CN?

[loud silo]

castle nathria

[gaunt moat]

oh

that's why he doesn't know me

[loud silo]

angy bunny

[slow marsh]

And that's why you don't know me 😉

[gaunt moat]

I was the moderator of this channel in legion.

[slow marsh]

Nice that's fun

[gaunt moat]

when sin used to be good 🥲

[slow marsh]

I almost played again in legion but I didn't cuz I didn't like the idea of everyone having the same weapons the whole xpac yep I was one of those

[gaunt moat]

we had great aoe in the form of poison bomb procs

which btw, was also nerfed at the start of expansion

[oak tangle]

poison bomb is now an active ability, when cast places a pool under each enemy effected by shiv for x seconds based on cp

[gaunt moat]

man, we really took a beating, huh?

[oak tangle]

i'm basically just trying to find us an equivalent of killing spree / sec tec

[slow marsh]

Killing spree

[balmy condor]

Sinister calling is always the answer

[gaunt moat]

I wish i had a saved copy of my old sin guide
Would be funny to see how much it changed.
Defintely more complex now.

[balmy condor]

I’ll tell you right now it didn’t change

It was maintain dots, dump on envenom, toxic blade on cooldown

And now it’s maintain dots, dump on envenom, shiv on cooldown, use the other cooldowns on cooldown

[gaunt moat]

You used to vanish envenom

[balmy condor]

Spec hasn’t meaningfully changed since cata

[slow marsh]

You did that in SL so not far off

[oak tangle]

slice and dice only existed for a meme snake eyes build in bfa

[balmy condor]

The most impactful changes we got since cata was carnage and uh

That’s really about it

Subterfuge has been around forever, it’s just good now

In improved garrote form

And the rest of the spec has maintained basically just a stagnation

We got toxic blade/shiv, kingsbane, thistle tea, er, sbs, sepsis

But they’re all just random cooldowns on top that you kinda cast

And they just do their thing

[gaunt moat]

CT too