assassination

[keen spruce]

I tihnk that i'd be an upgrade for you rn even without it

if you have the spark and catalyst charge

maybe not with the stat changes idk

[distant mesa]

I cata'ed the shoulders this week

[gaunt moat]

has any of you gotten a spark from random sources?

so far i only gotten 1 spark from dungeon

[woeful meteor]

Cowl is rly good without ring

[keen spruce]

yeah

heroic eggnog

[lusty nacelle]

/use 13
/cast Exsanguinate ?

[gaunt moat]

other way around

puzzle is channeled so can't

[keen spruce]

if you're playing a lot it looks like roughly one every 2 weeks

very roughly

[lusty nacelle]

oh

[keen spruce]

or 1 every 10 days

[lusty nacelle]

I literally just got it out of my box, never used it before

[distant mesa]

its not box>exsang ....

[woeful meteor]

it is you cant macro them together if you want to play optimally

[lament warren]

the opener is not optimal

the optimal place to press box is after deathmark

but because of how much it really doesn't matter

people prefer to press it before exsang

you can macro exsang and box

so that you box immediately after exsang

[ebon notch]

The optimal place is macrod into exsang

[lament warren]

with the same button

sniped

nerd

[ebon notch]

Which is then followed by deathmark

[ebon notch]

This is incorrect

[lament warren]

it's not incorrect

[gaunt moat]

yeah but can't macro the deathmark cause box is a channel

[lament warren]

@ebon notch

[ebon notch]

Sim logic changed pog

[lament warren]

always doesn't imply that it changed

[gaunt moat]

unless...
maybe something like

/use deathmark
/use algathar's puzzlebox

isn't a big loss?

[lament warren]

i don't think that that macro would even work

[balmy condor]

it didn't

[lament warren]

because ambush ss macros don't work

[balmy condor]

[lusty nacelle]

you'd have to hit it twice

and you would interrupt the box

[ebon notch]

I thought exsang box macro was preferred

[gaunt moat]

why not, is deathmark on GCD?

[ebon notch]

But it was all margin of error anyway

[lament warren]

it is

[gaunt moat]

ah

[balmy condor]

I haven't even heard of that

[lament warren]

if it's all margin don't be so quick to reply to me with "this is incorrect"!!

ty!!

[ebon notch]

[balmy condor]

who tf macros exsang to box

I'm sure its fine

but like

HUH

[gaunt moat]

reason not to?

[ebon notch]

That's where I remember it fro@

From

[lament warren]

pretty sure sims weren't optimized for openers and that just puts the box somewhere, right

[balmy condor]

yeah that's just saying it casts off-gcd now

but like

idk

I don't fucking care

[gaunt moat]

fake outrage

[balmy condor]

use it close whenever

as long as its close to DM

it's fine

I don't want to talk about puzzle box for the 1859034285098th time

over 100 dps

fucking stupid

[lament warren]

overthinking sin when you slam shiv on 40 energy no cp is a bad habit

[distant mesa]

so, heres what I'd been doing...

Gar/snd/Gar/Rupt/Er/Rupt/SBS/vanish/gar/BOX/Exsang/DM+Pot/SBS/Envenom/SBS/Envenom

9 times outta 10 the envenoms land on charged CP's

[gaunt moat]

wait vat

[lament warren]

it doesnt matter where you put box

but the rupture is wrong

[balmy condor]

sin players overthinking about overthinking

[lament warren]

gar snd gar (sbs) rupt er rupt

[gaunt moat]

GGs, why are you vanishing so early

[balmy condor]

cause he's syncing

[lament warren]

because with exsang it's fine to sync

it's fine to sync always

it's within 1%

but it's technically a dps increase without exsang to not sync vanish

but it's just another thing in a long list of things that really do not matter

it lets you have vanish for exsang on the 4min exsang

which you wouldn't have otherwise

it'd be delayed like 12 seconds

[balmy condor]

here's opener rules:

1. use garrote from stealth
2. if playing exsang, max pandemic garrote and max pandemic rupture with ER
3. get snd and sbs up
4. exsang before deathmark
5. use tea to get it on cooldown, use shiv
6. puzzle box plus or minus 3 seconds from deathmark

anything else is completely irrelevant

[woeful meteor]

was POT always with DM in the picture? Fell like it was a lot earlier at some point

[lament warren]

sims pot on cd

it doesnt matter either

but

[woeful meteor]

I know

I still have image of pot earlier in my head and its confusing me

[gaunt moat]

sometimes i struggle to get ER rupture when i wanna exsang
do you ever delay ER?

[lament warren]

no

[balmy condor]

no

[lament warren]

but you try to save an animacharged point for the 4min exsang

if you're not holding exsang they always line up

[distant mesa]

I CALLED IT

[lament warren]

if you are, you'll lose over half a cast at the 4min exsang

but i don't think it's a good idea

[balmy condor]

I don't hold anything for 4min exsang

[lament warren]

to think about it

[balmy condor]

not wurf

[lament warren]

because again it doesn't matter

[balmy condor]

too much to try and force

[lament warren]

just play

press buttons and win

dump all energy

[distant mesa]

been using this rule ever since

[lament warren]

if only you knew how bad it really was (that your globals that aren't shiv and bleeds don't matter)

think whispyr spent several hours comparing ct vs envenom for like

no difference

[gaunt moat]

i just feel bad that sometimes i use exsang without ER's rupture

[lament warren]

in multi target

lmao

yeah it doesnt feel great

but it's fine

it's not make or break

it's a bonus

just like the envenom buff is a bonus

if u get a 40 sec rupture on your third deathmark

poggers

[balmy condor]

a channel full of people trying to min-max or one spec where you just maintain everything, use cds on cooldown, and don't waste resources

who wins

[gaunt moat]

we're trying to cope with this dead horse 🥲

[keen spruce]

we still talkin about when to use box in February

[gaunt moat]

btw whispyr, wheni told you a friend said dathea was harder than rasz
it was wEak who said that
he never jokes 😂

[balmy condor]

weak can be wrong though

[lament warren]

i mean

look at this way

[balmy condor]

that's the most dumb take

I've ever heard

[lament warren]

at least sin still does 100k in ras p3

[gaunt moat]

i asked him how many pulls was dathea?
he said like 50 something
i asked how amny was rasz?
he said 160

[lament warren]

dathea is harder than raszageth

for melee dps

[gaunt moat]

yes

[lament warren]

raszageth is the easiest melee dps endboss since nzoth

rogues literally cannot die

feint works on everything

[balmy condor]

that wasn't the qualifier though

it's which boss is harder

[gaunt moat]

he probably meant for him personally

[lament warren]

overall

raszageth is harder for sure

[drifting cloud]

jailer was easier as melee

[gaunt moat]

but i meant which was overall harder

[lament warren]

i mean

usually bosses aren't hard as melee

[balmy condor]

yeah

overall

dathea is a fucking joke compared to raz

no shot

[lament warren]

you just follow the boss

and press damage buttons

[keen spruce]

i'm just gonna stay on boss when we get to dathea

[lament warren]

personally

jailer had a lot more to memorize

i think

[gaunt moat]

we had two people leave guild today. so now they will probably be forced to bring me to dathea 😂

[lament warren]

i could go in and oneshot raszageth winds

i could not go in and oneshot every single jailer soak position

but i suck so who knows

[gaunt moat]

been doing m+ with weak with him tanking.
it was hilarious.

[dreamy gull]

does anyone know of good guides for sin vs vault

[lament warren]

uhh

there's never class vs raid

you can watch povs

but as melee dps it really is just

walk at boss and press cooldown

[balmy condor]

spec single target, hit the boss

[dreamy gull]

idk i have never done vault before

or seen it done

[lament warren]

well

it is very easy

[dreamy gull]

but i should probably like get some idea of what they do

[lament warren]

i believe in you

[dreamy gull]

before queueing

[lament warren]

yeah

there are raid guides

i like hazelnutty :3c

she's the only one that doesn't take longer than an encounter to explain it

[hoary isle]

mythic raz is a banger

[dreamy gull]

ngl

ive gone into every single dungeon blind

which is probably bad

but whatever

[balmy condor]

what level dungeons are you doing

[dreamy gull]

heroic

[hoary isle]

oof

[balmy condor]

oh

[hoary isle]

gotta study them guides then

[balmy condor]

I guarantee you no one cares that you don't know the dungeons

lmao

[dreamy gull]

im not good enough for mythic

[hoary isle]

everyone is good enough for mythic

[woeful meteor]

I went into all m+ Dungeons blind this Season 🙂 except Court

[lament warren]

i still go in blind sometimes

(demon hunter)

[keen spruce]

one of the best parts about xpac launch is those first few weeks of dungeons and the volume of "wtf just killed me" in chat

[woeful meteor]

next season is gonna be rough going directly into 20s with 8 new dungeons

[lavish brook]

Why the 2nd garrote, and 2nd rupture in the opener?

[woeful meteor]

max out duration before exsang

[balmy condor]

damn

[lavish brook]

Okay, the 3rd garrote doesnt refresh it?

[balmy condor]

U N L U C K Y

[keen spruce]

Whispyr made a custom guide just for you in the FAQ under the opener section that answers all of your garrote related questions. first paragraph

[honest iris]

Is it normal to be super energy starved as sin

[hot chasm]

Did you forget poisons, cause I did that once.

[honest iris]

oh ur right, i changed specs and my poisons are gone lol

[keen spruce]

but also kind of yess sometimes

if u ain't procin blindsides

[lavish brook]

Can I ask why the shiv after envenom?

shouldnt it be before, I get its simmed, but doesnt the +20% dmg to nature help the envenom insta dam?

[lament warren]

link sim

@lavish brook

which opener are you talking about

kingsbane?

[lament warren]

because sbs garrote deathmark lands you at 6 cp

[keen spruce]

because math

oh also that

[lament warren]

when you have the improved garrote window up

and you press deathmark

[keen spruce]

too many CP

[lament warren]

it duplicates the combo points as well

so you garrote (3cp) -> deathmark (5cp)

because it duplicates the extra combo points

and not the baseline 1 from application

[lavish brook]

interesting

[lament warren]

and sbs by default generates 1 combo point when it's not on a target

so you rupture (0), sbs (1), vanish garrote (4), deathmark (6), envenom (0), shiv (1)

you can also do

[lavish brook]

makes sense, I just thought the 20% extra dam for the envenom would be worth

[lament warren]

garrote snd garrote sbs rupture er rupture vanish garrote exsanguinate deathmark shiv envenom

nah we don't play around that

if it were stronger we might

but you really do just send shiv on cd

(and hold one shiv for deathmark)

[lavish brook]

okay, perfect. thanks for the info!

[lament warren]

this opener

lands you at 5 cp after deathmark

so you shiv immediately after

into an envenom

if that feels more comfortable to you :)

[keen spruce]

I think i'm mushy brained. I simmed 405 puzzle box like 2 hours ago and it was like a 2200dps increase with exang talents.

I just did a gear compare to see how it stacks up against mythic icon and it only showed a 415 puzzle as like 1300dps upgrade over current.

So i went back and did my 405 puzzle again and it shows 1000dps

[lavish brook]

I can roll with whatever. I wasnt sure when to press shiv, so I read the tooltip, and then I saw the opener and got confused by the order

appreciate the help!

[lament warren]

no worries!

[keen spruce]

[lament warren]

be that way sometimes

[keen spruce]

oh

i figured it out

5min sim vs 7min sim

smh

[lament warren]

:3c

[keen spruce]

my fuckin guild requires 7min sims for wow audit

but literally everyone else everywhere uses 5min for everything

[thorny pond]

7min

jfc

their poor wives

[gusty mirage]

what an odd time

[keen spruce]

"more realistic prog sim" but wowaudit still only using single target patch

[gusty mirage]

I mean

fair

ig

[keen spruce]

except that there's like 2.5 single target fights in the whole raid

but w/e i guess it's all arbitrary

[gusty mirage]

you're a 2.5 ST fight

[keen spruce]

[gusty mirage]

DO IT

PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY

[keen spruce]

[hot chasm]

Plenty of ST heavy fights imo, if you can survive not padding

[keen spruce]

i'm talkin about wowaudit for the whole raid team

not assas

[gusty mirage]

I'm just rerolling arms warrior

[keen spruce]

specifically

[gusty mirage]

and pushing ignore pain for dps

how about them apples

[keen spruce]

after careful research, 6 specs are beating assas on terros now and they've all been buffed in the last few rounds of patches.

Assas is only beating surv, bm, and destro in overall in raid and hunter just got a 5% aura buff

[balmy condor]

what

[keen spruce]

my 16 hour days and massive overgearing won't hide how hotdog this spec is from my raid forever

[keen spruce]

[scarlet sierra]

im pretty new to assassination, but on raid bosses like terros do i use serrated bone spike on cooldown

and on like Kurog do i spread them to the adds to generate more points or just keep stabing the boss?

[lament warren]

you can use sbs whenever

low energy

[keen spruce]

just don't let it cap on charges

[lament warren]

don't let it cap

etc

[scarlet sierra]

ok

[lament warren]

doesnt matter

[keen spruce]

good on low energy

cuz it cheap

[scarlet sierra]

just overthinking it then

[keen spruce]

put them on kurog big adds yes

[lament warren]

dump them at the end of the fight

yeah

dont overthink sin

buttons dont matter

[keen spruce]

99% of sin is "don't let it cap on charges/energy/CP"

and don't let it run out

[scarlet sierra]

also when Deathmarking should i let improved garrote run down to like 1 second before reapplying them to not overwrite my improved garrote?

[keen spruce]

yus

[scarlet sierra]

okay

thanks

[lament warren]

not if you vanish

[keen spruce]

also yes

[lament warren]

if you vanish you can reapply at 6 seconds

if not you're overwriting and it's bad

you let empowered bleeds run out on their own if you can't replace them with themselves

[keen spruce]

it's all covered in the FAQ also

[lament warren]

especially exsang

[scarlet sierra]

okay ive been fucking my opener then

[keen spruce]

if you refresh imp garrote in pandemic with a normie garrote

then you just lose all of that imp garrote time

that you overwrote

opener also in the FAQ

FAQ will set u free

FAQ is love

[scarlet sierra]

Ye I saw it, but i just wanted to ask about the refresh

[keen spruce]

FAQ is life

[balmy heart]

you have 5/7cp, no shiv, sbs, garrote, or ER. What do you press? Envenom or mutilate?

[lament warren]

5/6

you press garrote

then you press envenom

then you press er

then you press envenom again

[balmy heart]

oh, I meant 4/6

and gar on CD

[lament warren]

same order

garrote on cd

you muti

always highest prio finisher at max - 1 cp

or max

[balmy heart]

ah

tyty

[lament warren]

np

[gusty mirage]

one day imma make a guild

[balmy heart]

I come across that and figured to envenom to not overcap

[gusty mirage]

that's going to require a 8 minute hectic add cleave sim

for gear distribution

[lament warren]

muti won't overcap

at 4/6

[gusty mirage]

and it won't tell me a fucking thing

[lament warren]

unless you proc seal fate

but you don't play around seal fate

ever

you always press buttons as if seal fate doesnt exist

except finishers

[keen spruce]

[oak tangle]

That’s why it’s max -1 for finisher. For overcap reasons, at 4/6 you generate. And SBS charge would also be a good one to use in that situation

[lament warren]

yeppers

[balmy heart]

I knew the -1 cp on finishers because seal fate, just not the -2 occasion. Thanks for the replies though

[lament warren]

no worries

shiv generates 1, garrote generates 1 (pretty sure it cannot proc seal fate), sbs generates 1 if you have it up, 2 if not
muti generates 2

so if you're 5cp

[keen spruce]

5 min puzzlebox vs icon:

[lament warren]

and shiv if up

you press shiv

[keen spruce]

7min puzzle box vs icon :

[lament warren]

link sim plz

p sure i know why that is

but i want to confirm

[keen spruce]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/v8MnKFeMzKzFhhqWR8dduh

^7

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cnS6HqmK8j6jRJWLsXhMFS

[lament warren]

yeah

[keen spruce]

idk wut that means i just work here

[lament warren]

in the 7 min sim it holds for 4 mins

[keen spruce]

oh

[lament warren]

so there's less value on puzzle box

because it would be back up at 7 minutes

so you don't get another cast

[keen spruce]

i was gonna say

i would expect it to be comperable because you get the fat line up at 6 min

[lament warren]

.

[safe barn]

dude

[lament warren]

it plays 7 mins wrong

so it undersims

[keen spruce]

look just let me try to weasel my way out of using puzzle box

[safe barn]

this wowanalyzer shit that topple did

is fucking amazing

we need those for the other specs

[lament warren]

i'm no rat

this convo stays between us

[keen spruce]

yeah they knocked it outta the park

[balmy condor]

it doesn't actually

[lament warren]

does it not

[balmy condor]

koji checked it

[keen spruce]

[balmy condor]

holding it versus not holding it on longer fight lengths like that is fine

[lament warren]

exsang sucks

that's all i'm hearing

[keen spruce]

can u essplain the sim dif then?

[lament warren]

well

it is because you get fewer good casts

the difference is that

in 5 mins you're 1 min away from your 4min lineup

[balmy condor]

less casts, longer fight = lower value burst

[lament warren]

at 7 mins you're 3 mins away from it

[balmy condor]

[lament warren]

it's like fight timers w lust

the further away you get from lust

you may have good line-ups

but you're further from your highest burst

so your overall dps will still be lower

[keen spruce]

so what you're saying is i can still weasel out of puzzle cuz my guild uses 7 min sims

and it's only 300 dps ahead of icon

[lament warren]

👍

yes

[keen spruce]

[lament warren]

exsang sucks

[balmy condor]

indeed

very suck

[oak tangle]

What’s wrong with puzzle? That you wanna weasel out of it

[lament warren]

cast time trinket = call hr

[balmy condor]

nothings wrong with puzzle

puzzle is really good

that's it

[oak tangle]

Would you happily use a grief though?

[storm onyx]

Until vault gives you a 421 …

[lament warren]

grief channels down

not up

that makes it cooler

also cool animation

[keen spruce]

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[balmy condor]

if I got a grieftorch from mythic, sure

[keen spruce]

don't put that shit out into the world like that

[balmy condor]

I'll happily use a mythic grief

[balmy heart]

press grief, see numbers! BIG

[balmy condor]

playing with numbers on

cringe!

[oak tangle]

There’s something to be said about the calm before the storm that is puzzle into exsang tho

[keen spruce]

puzzle is one step closer to exang

so no puzzle

[lament warren]

Manic Grieftorch小球 fire animation 疾病云 profit off of misfortune 急忙搬家 杀死暴徒

[oak tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-bean-mr-beans-holiday-rowan-atkinson-cycling-cycle-race-gif-14784106

[keen spruce]

also heroic CCT and grieftorch sim better than 405 puzzle with poison build

[balmy condor]

playing bad talents makes bad trinkets better

who knew

[keen spruce]

and poison build sim higher than exang build w/o puzzle

so they both gotta go

optimal sub-optimal build

[balmy condor]

I hate these new talent trees man

enabling people like shmeeps to be degenerates

[lament warren]

personally

i hate boon

[oak tangle]

I’m sad, Warcraft logs declined my 99 on normal cause the priest PI’d me

[keen spruce]

at least i put a disclaimer that my talents are bad when people ask about them

[lament warren]

cant win

[keen spruce]

i thought they were just gettin feedback on PI exclusion

[spice spire]

[lament warren]

@shy dust

it's happening

[spice spire]

[lament warren]

raesp gold income

📈

[shy dust]

wait

[balmy condor]

better than every rogue above 3k io

[shy dust]

did they approve PI ban

[keen spruce]

now this is the shmeepymath that i'm talkin about

[spice spire]

[keen spruce]

that puts me #2 on the icon prio instead of 12th

[lament warren]

good

[spice spire]

Icon is like double that gain for me

[keen spruce]

7 min sim

and bad talents

[spice spire]

[keen spruce]

we gotta do what we gotta do

[shy dust]

yall dont got 421 puzzle boxes?

literally throwing

[keen spruce]

i'm pretending that will never happen

cuz i'll cri

[spice spire]

I s2g I’ll say the p word

[keen spruce]

if i get a 421 puzzle and all of my rat math gets thrown out the window

i'm just gonna go play sub

or maple story

wait no we coo

rat math prevails

[next dune]

!neck

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.

[keen spruce]

even with correct talents tho

i can live with 2 less buttons for 600 dps

[lament warren]

you want me to fudge you a sim

rq

?

[keen spruce]

nah i can explain away 600dps

[lament warren]

link me sim

[keen spruce]

"easier rotation so i'll make up the 600 with better play"

[lament warren]

:3c

[keen spruce]

yadda yadda

[lament warren]

post link i'm curious now

if my method will work

[keen spruce]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cLTgTmD8Ytafu6FJFCTi2W correct talents

[oak tangle]

just remove using the trinket/

[keen spruce]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/np2JzxsEm3qvycWv972Qqj rat talents

[lament warren]

ok brb

[balmy condor]

this is the most based thing you've said all day

[storm onyx]

Have you simmed icon+box /grin

[lament warren]

one of my friends

plays maplestory

hes fucking insane

i can like

not show up to his stream

for 2 years

and i show up

and hes still grinding

[keen spruce]

i'd have to compare it vs a mythic guzzler

3 lazy

oh actually only 500dps cuz icon is better on poison build

[lament warren]

@keen spruce

i got u

[spice spire]

Bruh

Get premium

[balmy condor]

"i got u"

yeah

[lament warren]

that was the joke

youre repeating my joke

[keen spruce]

[balmy condor]

yes

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

I'm laughing

cause it was funny

[lament warren]

ok

i was going to snipe

your stolen valor

[spice spire]

[lament warren]

do not lie

you know for a fact people will just repeat the joke as if it's serious and then take all the credit

you will not take my clout

[keen spruce]

the rogue discord coming together to optimize my loot for my wrong talents and trinket choices

what a time to be alive

[spice spire]

I take back the nice thing I said earlier

Don’t listen to shmeeps certified menace

[lament warren]

LMAO

[keen spruce]

but i'm certified

[spice spire]

[lament warren]

228 in queue

@keen spruce

got u

[spice spire]

Nah dw shmeeps I got the real sim Cookin

[lament warren]

LMFAOOOOO

[keen spruce]

LOL

[lament warren]

he on it

yo shmeeps

dont worry

[keen spruce]

did you just make it so it never casts puzle box?

[lament warren]

im on the case

[spice spire]

real

Oxi moment

Local sims

[lament warren]

no

i made it so it has 0 agi on it

[keen spruce]

oooo

[frigid pilot]

Still no raid bots premium I see

Oof

[lament warren]

still no bitches i see

oof

[thorny pond]

so like

how do I get my raid

to not die

and do more dps?

[keen spruce]

that's the age old question

and they won't listen to you when you tell them not die because you're a rogue

[thorny pond]

I have raid led for 15 years

U can't teach this I guess

[keen spruce]

i'm convinced that 30% of wow raiders wear oven mitts

[lament warren]

you can't teach people to care about the game

people fail to mechanics because they don't care

[toxic burrow]

See, I'm having issues with the folks that are still alive not doing enough DPS. . _.

[lament warren]

and people who care go high end

just the nature of it

[spice spire]

Not always true. Life needs balance

Wow doesn’t allow that on high end

[keen spruce]

I stay low end and have no life balance

[thorny pond]

did high end. Got a girl pregnant, now I don't do high end

[lament warren]

that's true

actually

i forgot people have lives

since i never had one

[spice spire]

Circle of life man unreal

[oak sky]

your turn quake

you are my pewdiepie

[thorny pond]

the kids will take your spot quake

[oak sky]

i need you to have children

[thorny pond]

and farm all my gold

[spice spire]

I doubt that one homie

[spice spire]

Bro what are you my parents and future parents in law?

[keen spruce]

kids would save me a lot of time on gold farming

[opal elm]

why are you in my vault get out

[oak sky]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1030537928235040859.webp?size=56&quality=lossless

[spice spire]

[oak sky]

@spice spire take your time homie 💀

[spice spire]

Nah we have a loose “plan”

[lament warren]

dw your kids are on the way

[spice spire]

Which is kind of nerve wracking

[thorny pond]

condom a little large on you too, eh?

[spice spire]

God bless

[spice spire]

[thorny pond]

same brother

"It's better to be whipped than hand whipped" - RIP big guy

[spice spire]

Truer words

[keen spruce]

i'm just gonna get the snip in a couple of years and adopt an asian baby

it'll look enough like me

[lament warren]

i made it a sticker

[spice spire]

Adoption is the backup plan in case something goes wrong.
Probably will quit everything when I have a kid.
Legit always wanted to be a dad

[spice spire]

Real name

[thorny pond]

being a dad is fun

[oak sky]

on the last sentence

[thorny pond]

if you've ever raid led, being a dad is like that. but ya know, you enjoy the little bugger

[keen spruce]

but that is also predicated on me getting a job, a wife, losing about 40 lbs, and going outside more than just picking up my doordash

[keen spruce]

tbh same tho

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

I figured as much, excited and nervous for it.

Anyway

Shiv rules

Blah blah assassination things

[thorny pond]

shiv'er

[keen spruce]

let's keep talkin about my talents

i'm collecting commuity figures calling me a degenerate screenshots

[spice spire]

[keen spruce]

[spice spire]

I haven’t done that yet

[keen spruce]

menace same thing

[spice spire]

Just a certified menace

[shy dust]

WPW could out dps you in a key

[keen spruce]

certified tho

[thorny pond]

I could out dps you in a key with no capstones

[spice spire]

Worgen rogues

[keen spruce]

I play gamba pirate in keys for even less brain usage

[shy dust]

furry rogues

[lament warren]

wolfgirls bis

[spice spire]

My brother in Christ, you were literally mister van beef

[lament warren]

true

i own

[shy dust]

I have to occasionally compliment the person who carried my priest through a 16

[shy dust]

and youre no one

[lament warren]

its ok

someone asked for a sub rogue stream

[spice spire]

Papi y

[lament warren]

i linked them yours

😎

[shy dust]

[lament warren]

(he will never stream again)

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

alliance player pov

[oak sky]

i wouldve carried raesp

[shy dust]

im somebody in a small pool Whispyr

[oak sky]

i got my first i miss you message from a guildie just now 😭

[keen spruce]

i'm a void elf. i wanna go beef

[oak sky]

(my guild is weird)

[spice spire]

I was in a raider.io article once man

[oak sky]

i was rank 2 on healing parses once man https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/883124920719126578.gif?size=56&quality=lossless

[spice spire]

Real

Competing the healing parses with vel

[oak sky]

i wanted r1

some random beat me

[lament warren]

i was rank 2 on healing parses once man https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/883124920719126578.gif?size=56&quality=lossless

[oak sky]

dont think you were here then

right

[spice spire]

Me?

[oak sky]

wpw+h

le wolf

[lament warren]

idk

i just think it's really funny

that the entire link shows up

i like it a lot

[oak sky]

yeah

its an epic embed fail for sure

[lament warren]

epic embed win

imo

[spice spire]

SoD times I don’t think the wolfgrill was here

[lament warren]

irony points

[keen spruce]

do you guys not have the emote?

[lament warren]

uh

i dont know if i do or dont

i literally saw it

laughed

and pasted it

[oak sky]

no nitro

[keen spruce]

[spice spire]

No bitches either

[lament warren]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/489216346270203907.webp?size=80&quality=lossless

[keen spruce]

i have legacy discord premium

[lament warren]

that one embeds

lmfao

[keen spruce]

i think

[oak sky]

😐

[keen spruce]

cuz i can use external emotes but can't change my server profile picture

[spice spire]

I’m sorry you don’t deserve that

[lament warren]

owned lol

[gusty mirage]

I wrote one once

[shy dust]

tf

[spice spire]

Goated too

I enjoyed it

[gusty mirage]

I gotta finish that 2nd one

gotta keep the fans happy

[shy dust]

I regret complimenting you

[spice spire]

Still link it occasionally

[gusty mirage]

ya feel

[lament warren]

?

i was just posting the emote

to see if it embeds

i wasn't using it

i only use cute weeb emotes

[spice spire]

Rae’s a hater dw

[lament warren]

[spice spire]

Oh no

[lament warren]

rae and me are lovers

but only our hunter and shadow priest

respectively.

[oak sky]

something something feint

[spice spire]

You’ve unlocked the demon.

[oak sky]

something something immunity

[lament warren]

we made up

[spice spire]

The weeb hating rae arc

[oak sky]

uwulane

[spice spire]

Damn real

[lament warren]

naw i'm built diff

[autumn frost]

woot my casualguild finally got aotc today 🙂

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

Grats

[gusty mirage]

congrats!

[autumn frost]

Thank you guys!

[keen spruce]

lets goooo

[weak horizon]

Congrats! My casual guild is about to start our 2nd week of h raz prog and I am not looking forward to it.

[keen spruce]

very fun fight on heroic imo

prog can be a lil painful tho

as you watch priests getting yeeted to narnia

[slow osprey]

Hey guys, new to this side of town. I tried Assassination during raid tonight just to get a feel for it, but I was constantly starved of energy (I am a sub main so haste is very very low) Is there a good percentage of haste to be at comparatively? Crit/Mastery shows as prio stats but I felt like I did terrible at energy management. Or is there something in talents that I am just not using to the best of my ability. I ran the dragon tempest single target build in faqs

[keen spruce]

and mages stand in breath

[keen spruce]

you'll feel very starved compared to sub

[weak horizon]

Sin is just a low energy class TBH

[slow osprey]

Oh

[keen spruce]

lots of valleys during a fights

[slow osprey]

well shit. That is sort of nice to hear. I thought I was doing something completely wrong.

[keen spruce]

just prayge for blindisde procs

did you have poisons on?

[gusty mirage]

Yeah unless you had poisons missing sometimes you’re legit just afk waiting for energy

[slow osprey]

I did, I had two lethal and two non lethal, I don't even know if that was correct lmao.

[spark scaffold]

Is it bad to use all thistle charges in the first minute of the fight?

[keen spruce]

normally it'll be after lust and tea is all used up, you can save a couple of bone spikes till then cuz they're cheaper but you'll normally end up strugglin for energy a bit before the 2min mark when CDs come back up

[weak horizon]

I think as long as you aren't overcapping energy when you use them you're good

[keen spruce]

adn it normally valleys again after that CD set

[slow osprey]

In those situations, is it better to just pool with AAs or spam your next mutilate?

[keen spruce]

just spam

pooling not really a thing anymore

this was my last terros

[spark scaffold]

Just feels weird because you want the mastery buff in execute but you also just have more energy in execute

[keen spruce]

lots of low energy

[slow osprey]

HOLY SHIT, that is different

[keen spruce]

basically u just suffer until execute

then blast

[gusty mirage]

It’s for sure not ideal

[spark scaffold]

Not ideal because?

I have 3% haste, every shiv i can thistle and not overcap

[keen spruce]

before execute

after execute

[slow osprey]

Is there something I am missing, that I didn't read somewhere. Why does execute phase give you more energy? Are you just using less abilities? Sorry if this all noob questions. Just intrigued by the differences between what I am used to and this spec.

[keen spruce]

increase blindside proc chance

[spark scaffold]

You get more blindside procs

[keen spruce]

which are free

and always pressed instead of muti

[slow osprey]

Got it! Thanks.

[slow marsh]

Mutilate sucks I want ambush more

[slow osprey]

May I ask what your ilvl is?

[weak horizon]

I love me some ambush

[keen spruce]

uh on that kill like 413

that was a couple of weeks ago

and that wasn't like a big orange parse or anything

[spark scaffold]

If youre at the point of missing globals due to energy wouldnt it make sense to pool on shiv or play atound env buff

[keen spruce]

i think it was a 90 or something at the time

[keen spruce]

it's insignificant, general rule is just dump

[slow osprey]

Still useful info. I am 411 and was no where near that dmg lol. I was closer to 55kish on Raz, so definitely have more to look at. Going to check logs and see what others do differently.

[keen spruce]

but i guess technically maybe general concensus is that it's not worth the extra synapses firing in your brain lol

[spark scaffold]

I understand its not important in the sim profile but at really low haste levels it might be more worth

[keen spruce]

I was a pretty strong 413. flaring cowl, mythic eggnog ring, heroic torch, and heroic CCT

just had supressed ilvl because of socketed low ilvl m+ stuff

[slow marsh]

You should have a thistle recharge around shiv so there's no point to pool for it

[keen spruce]

I just don't think it would make a noticable difference. but it also technically wouldn't hurt you if you're not losing globals anyways

i do it sometimes if i'm bored

jsut don't think it's something that needs to be worried about

[spark scaffold]

Might aswell if im afking every 5 sec

Bosses on farm are for dps whoring after all

[slow marsh]

It's kinda weird to say you have a low haste % so you pool more anyways cuz dashing exists

So unless you're stacking vers it mostly balances out

[slow osprey]

What is CCT lol can't think of what that acronym stands for. I have Max flaring, Whetstone at 415 in place of Grief and hero eggnog

OH controlled current

right after I hit send man dammit lol

I have hero that too

[keen spruce]

controlled current technique from kurog

ye

plug in a terros pull into wowanalyzer

it'll give you a lot of good info

best way to pick up on major mistakes

also parses can be heavily affected by raid comp / kill times etc

[spark scaffold]

Haste has a much bigger impact on your energy regen than crit, its not comparable

[slow osprey]

Yea, I am going to check that out here in a bit for sure

[slow marsh]

It's a lot less than you think it is

[keen spruce]

actually on that note, how often does deadly and amp tic?

i feel like i should already know this

but i never thought about it

[slow marsh]

1 energy per second for each 10% haste is pretty minimal in terms of stat profiles

[spark scaffold]

Haste gives you energy from other sources aswell

[slow marsh]

Obviously flat % haste amps have a big impact like flag in SL

[static glacier]

Haste matters for dot dmg / swing speed too

Not just energy

[slow marsh]

Yes but the point is that haste isn't affecting energy as much as people thinks it does

Crit is right there along side it

[keen spruce]

poisons still tick every 3 seconds?

or more often

[slow marsh]

Like the dot itself ? Or reapps

[keen spruce]

the dot itself

[slow marsh]

3 sec yeah

[keen spruce]

yeah i mean it would work out to about a wash then

haste vs crit

on the regen side

and it's not like we're tlakin about big numbers of regen anyways

[slow marsh]

They're both important in their own ways but unless you can generate % haste with something like flag or pi n such it's not gonna be noticable

It's a pretty old feelycraft philosophy

[keen spruce]

yeah and the true value of the energy regen is kind of negligible anyways

even if haste was 2x as good as crit

[spark scaffold]

Its really simple, do a sim, check energy used, add 10% haste to the profile and check energy used

Stop the

[keen spruce]

the numbers were talkin about are so small

[slow marsh]

You're adding 10% haste of course it's gonna be different lol

[keen spruce]

it just doesn't really matter

[strange python]

How’s ass in dungeons?

[spark scaffold]

Yes, but you're going to see how different

[keen spruce]

with puzzle and exang haste tends to get more value anyways, but it all runs so close together that it's kind of a fruitless endeavor

the 360 energy you get over a 6m fight with 10% more haste get's balanced out by the 10% crit you're losing yadda yadda

[slow marsh]

If our gcds got reduced with haste like some classes then it would maybe change things up but yeah thankfully all stats are good for us so it doesn't matter

[keen spruce]

but i guess his original point was that haste has a bigger impact on regen then dashing crits

which is technically correct

but also like 2x0 is still 0

and the regen from both is piss low

that's why we're always out of energy in the first place

so the point is kinda moot

[slow marsh]

I mean true but seems like they were approaching it from perspective of adding a flat 10% haste which would be like 2.5k haste or something so you're likely losing a lot of crit and thus combo point efficiency which matters more for us when muti hits like a wet noodle

[keen spruce]

yeah we got a little hyperbolic with the discussion

[slow marsh]

It's fine at least it's mostly productive unlike what happens sometimes here

[keen spruce]

either way 10% haste over the course of a fight get's swallowed up with 6 mutilates

[slow marsh]

Yepper and those 6 mutis can be anywhere from 12-24 cps

I'm still fiddling with getting dance to work but its hard to compete with 2,3,4 point finishers via RC

Also can't seem to get it to stop wasting over 45 cps in a fight

[keen spruce]

dance just seems so out of place for assas

[slow marsh]

I think a lot of people would be surprised

I saw someone saying they were running KB build earlier even tho it's nerfed

[keen spruce]

i mean thematically, juicing garrotes more often with a bleed build would be cool n all

[slow marsh]

And dance is better than that by a lot

We have some ambush synergy as well, it just isn't quite enough

[keen spruce]

idk just seems like a weird choice for a class capstone

that being said, it's pog on a log for outlaw

but having dance behind find weakness is also just weird for assas

[slow marsh]

Imo it's weirder on OL than sin

I agree find weakness sucks

And NS doesn't work

[distant mesa]

3 hours later I finally got the bar green past 5 CP with Deeper strata

[slow marsh]

And yet I can still get it within 2% while wasting 50cp

So I have a sliver of hope

[keen spruce]

night stalker just doesn't snapshot on bleed currently right?

[slow marsh]

It just doesn't work

[keen spruce]

so the buff disappears immediately

[slow marsh]

On anything

[keen spruce]

oh

LOL

[slow marsh]

Other than shadow strike

So if they bug fixed NS then dance probably matches the standard build

[keen spruce]

could make things interesting if they added connectors between thief's versatility and vigor / imp ambush

[slow marsh]

Ehhh idk if it'd do anything

We just take imp ambush for blindsid maybe

[keen spruce]

yeah nothin crazy but opens up some possibilities

if you go dance you save 2 cp in nightstalker

[slow marsh]

But the thing is that if NS worked it'd be good for sin

Even without snapshot

[keen spruce]

also true

how without snapshot

you mean just 8% damage on dance ambushes?

[slow marsh]

I mean obviously with snapshot it's really good but even without we have it for dance + shiv windows

[keen spruce]

or ig 8% damage during dance

[gaunt moat]

time for prayers

[keen spruce]

what if they put shrouded where exang is, exang where arterial is, and arterial where shrouded is

[slow marsh]

So my whole theory with dance for sin is that it enables master assassin and imp garrotes and so you use dance more as a damage amp window than an ambush enabler

[keen spruce]

and adjust exang power as a capstone

[slow marsh]

Who knows what they're gonna do with exsang

[subtle tundra]

Except it's 10% uptime of a very small buff

With huge investments

[gaunt moat]

No pants 😭

[keen spruce]

i mean i'd be happier if they just delete exang

[slow marsh]

Yeah I agree to both

[keen spruce]

cuz there's like no way to balance it and have it line up with our cds

realistically

if they just made it refresh garrote and rupture on cast and knocked down the tick rate a bit i could live with it though

[gaunt moat]

i already have that ring at 415..
so i wonder if i should take melandrus ring, and then eventually add a socket to it

let's do some tests

[keen spruce]

melandrus ring at 415 unsocketed is worth roughly a well stated 415 socketed ring

[gaunt moat]

no i meant i have the right ring at 415, with socket.

so it's just 6 ilvls upgrade for it

[keen spruce]

ah

yeah probably a number crunch angle

[slow marsh]

Yeah 4 literally wasted points sucks big time for sure

[keen spruce]

i'm not sure if a 415 court right + socket makes up for the ilvl gap to 421 other ring

[slow marsh]

Only sim will tell

[gaunt moat]

running it right now

[royal lantern]

@gusty mirage im a HEROIC torch gamer now

[indigo mulch]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[royal lantern]

after idk how many weeks

it dropped

impossible

[gaunt moat]

oh i'm dumb, it's not even melandrus ring.

bah. not a good vault.

[keen spruce]

yeah i was wondering wtf u were talkin about

[gaunt moat]

probably best to take a socket than 6ilvls

[keen spruce]

i was just goin with it lol

hat catalyst angle maybe?

[gaunt moat]

yeah, i think i'll just use valor on some pants (highest ones i got are 405 10/13 upgrade)
and use catalyst on that

then probably socket on cowl

[slow marsh]

Sockets are pretty large. Seems good

[gaunt moat]

if only raidbots would work 😬

[keen spruce]

wait

ignore that

i fix

[gaunt moat]

350 more dps. weee

but it's better

[subtle tundra]

Yes I will get grief torch/shoulders/finger

I am wearing 398 shouldies

[keen spruce]

so many nerfs

[subtle tundra]

What's your point

[keen spruce]

am complaining

no point

this is the only one that really twisted my nipples though

[subtle tundra]

Cry about it

[keen spruce]

now that survival hunter is getting an aura buff that's gonna put assas squarley at the bottom of raid performance along with destro

[keen spruce]

that's what i'm doing

[subtle tundra]

😭

[keen spruce]

now you're gettin it

[gaunt moat]

I don't even mind survival, but why BM

[subtle tundra]

So they can take our place as the st no aoe spec

[keen spruce]

just patiently waiting for my raid to find out

[gaunt moat]

And what's gonna be our place? 🥲

[keen spruce]

i can't hide behind massive overgearing from playing more than i sleep or eat anymore

[strange python]

How much DPS do I need to do the mage tower? I'm only getting the main boss to 38% so im 18% off but idk how to pump harder

[keen spruce]

it's more of a mechanic check than a dps race.

i don't think you need that crazy of gear to do it

[strange python]

I'm getting to the enrage at 6:30 tho

[keen spruce]

oh i forgot t here's an enrage lol mb

uhh what's your ilvl

[strange python]

Not sure how that's relevant when it gets scaled down lol