assassination

[marble hemlock]

Just shows who can passive cleave the best. Cool. It's pointless information.

It doesn't help you make an informed decision on what classes are best to bring for any given encounter, it doesn't even inform on what classes are doing good "overall", it's just pointless

Being good on the overall DPS chart means youre good in Kurog and Dathea this tier. You can be useless on the rest of the fights, youll still be high up on the overall chart.

And by good I mean "you can needlessly pad on small adds that could easily be alive 20sec longer"

[gaunt moat]

1 - most times you'll be aoeing trash. Some bosses are also aoe. Big difference.

2 - you apply dots after they fall off manually.

3 - exception is if they will die in a few seconds.

4 - CT even at 4, maybe 3. Depending how much you move.
At high high targets, envenom is better.
Why? PB has no target limit.

5 - yes, at very high amount of targets 8+ that will not immidiatly get deleted.
Also on bosses usually sin better.

[vestal cliff]

Frost Dk is lit

[marble hemlock]

1. Enough that it's not worth considering. You play the recommended build, any deviation is kinda pointless. Only "flex" point is the 1/2 imp poisons, can put it anywhere else you want, but it's best there.

2. Re-Apply Ruptures if they would run full duration

3. Use Garrote on CD on targets that dont have it yet (if it runs full duration)

4. Yes

5. No, Sectec is broken and pointing that out will lead to 2-4 sub players yelling BUT MUH NIGHTSTALKER TALENTPOINTS as a response, so stay away from them.

That being said, Assa is perfectly viable in basically all level of keys, including the very top. Iron Wire is a ridiculously powerful talent and can help and set up entire pulls that you otherwise wouldnt be able to do, or makes them infinitely easier

[proper tapir]

1. Run a sim to compare.
2. You gotta do it the hard way sometimes.
3. You don't want to waste it on a very very low health target, especially if there is another target nearby with higher hp who also needs gar.
4. Sure, that's what I do.
5. If you like sub then play that. Here, we like Sin.

[frank stone]

Yeah aoe silence is so good

[dreamy elk]

Thanks for the answers. I'm mostly considering sin mythic+ build (I usually do play sub for mythic+) because A) I like sin, B) iron wire, and C) wondering if it'd actually be better for boss DPS on something like tyrannical weeks.

[gaunt moat]

I break dominators in shadowmoon 🤓

[marble hemlock]

The main difference is that playing Assa well is... challenging. Probably one of the hardest specs to play well on AoE and do good damage on, so if you're not super familiar with it, you'll definitely pull quite a bit lower numbers.

Compared to that, Sub is kinda easy on AoE, but more challenging to play well on singletarget, where Assa is a snorefest.

[vestal cliff]

SAME

[marble hemlock]

Assa is worse on Tyrannical than on Fortified

[olive peak]

whats the opener like on 2 targetS? for example senath or kurog?

[marble hemlock]

Sennarth is a single-target fight for Assa

[dreamy elk]

Interesting, wasn't expecting that. Guess it's about how long adds live?

[gaunt moat]

Sin has problems being good both at ST and AOE

[marble hemlock]

On Kurog you usually do smth like:

Garrote, Mut, snd, er, rup, SBS, then add spawns, SBS add, Rupture Adds, Vanish, Garrote add twice, boss once, ct, exsang, dm and then just maintain your stuff

oh sorry

lemme edit that

[dreamy elk]

Yeah, I could see that (about having issues being good at both). Ugh, well alright then.

[rain oyster]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[marble hemlock]

It's mostly an issue of trash dying too fast on tyrannical so you dont get IC back up for every pack, which makes your overall cd usage in dungeons pretty awkward

[dreamy elk]

That makes sense.

[gaunt moat]

Sin so simple loads bullet into gun 🥲

[marble hemlock]

It also used to be an issue of zoldyck not getting enough time to boost your dps output since mobs would not spend enough time in execute range, but that's kinda whatever now since we no longer play zoldyck

[olive peak]

this sound like a 8 sec exhang tho

[dreamy elk]

I'd love to play sin more in mythic+ just as a change of pace. Maybe I'll wait for fortified week then and see how it feels. I just like the boss DPS on sin (the way it plays) so much more than sub.

[gaunt moat]

It's spiteful week right now.
This sucks so much for sin.

[marble hemlock]

Really the biggest reason for it beign worse in tyrannical though, is that the other classes are all better in tyrannical. They have AoE CDs, and AoE CDs are better when pulls are shorter duration. It also means they can use a second set of CDs on the boss and have it back up for trash, whereas on fortified they typically have to choose between one or the other.

As our CDs are st-only anyway, we can always safely send a second set on bosses (and make sure we have it ready for pull)

[marble hemlock]

huh?

[gaunt moat]

I think he missed the part you garrote boss just before

[rain oyster]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[dreamy elk]

Is that why you said sectec is busted, because it’s a short CD but powerful AOE tool that also is used in their ST rotation?

[vestal cliff]

Do u guys have long waiting time getting into keys?

[teal bloom]

Every dps has difficulty getting into keys

[vestal cliff]

Rogue tank when

[storm onyx]

I stopped pugging inn legion s2...

[storm onyx]

Never omg

[marble hemlock]

the main thing to keep in mind for m+, is that dps is kinda whatever. as long as youre pressing buttons and not doing 30% less than the other dps, youre not depleting cuz of class choice.

99% of keys are depleted because of a wipe at some point, and a massive majority of those are not due to lack of dps, but due to lack of brain. most of the wipes due to lack of dps are because a dps died, not because they played the wrong class. missed an interrupt? died to frontal? didnt do a mechanic properly? ass-pulled smth?

none of these issues are fixed by class choice, assa actually has a bit of an upper hand because iron wire alleviates some of the pressure on interrupts as it helps sync up mobs and many of the mobs in DF dungeons dont recast spells if they are disrupted, so one aoe silence into shockwave/chaosnova etc. does the same as assigning 5 different interrupts and doing them regularly

[vestal cliff]

Rogue healer tho

[storm onyx]

Drink your vial and swing )

[marble hemlock]

it just does too much damage

[dreamy elk]

Wait, iron wire + IC means you have an 8 target AOE silence on a 45s CD?

[terse orchid]

and many of the mobs in DF dungeons dont recast spells if they are disrupted
What, that doesn't seem true

[marble hemlock]

theres nothing special about it, it just hits very hard

[marble hemlock]

yes

[vestal cliff]

Thats so true people just want meta classes in their keys but then proceed and dont kick a single spell

[marble hemlock]

well, it is?

[dreamy elk]

That's actually sick.

[terse orchid]

Which mobs? Because the ones I disrupt definitely do cast them again

[marble hemlock]

they cast them again, but like, on the same cooldown as if you interrupted

[terse orchid]

Ah like that

[marble hemlock]

well yeah obviously you dont disrupt them once and they never cast it again

[terse orchid]

Well that's kind of what was implied haha

[marble hemlock]

but functionally theres no difference between using kick or gouge on the flowers in vault, or the elementals/book in academy

[terse orchid]

Good to know I'm not crazy!

[marble hemlock]

both interrupt the spell, and both make it not recast until the spell is off cooldown again. most mobs in DF dungeons trigger the cooldown when they begin their cast, not when they finish it

[terse orchid]

Now that I did not know

so waiting with the interrupt provides no value?

[marble hemlock]

its why we can solo interrupt many mobs

cuz they dont spam their skills, but have an internal cooldown on them, and we can just alternate kick/gouge/kick/kidney/kick/gouge/kick/blind etc. pmuch endlessly

[terse orchid]

Hmm, time to run gouge i guess

[gaunt moat]

But usually you will only silence packs once at engagement.
Most packs last at max a minute (usually 30 sec) and you want IC ready for next pack

[dreamy elk]

Makes sense.

Still, that's pretty dope to have that + 15% reduced damage for 8s on an AOE.

That's super cool.

[marble hemlock]

yeah, iron wire is nutty

[dreamy elk]

Maybe I'll give it a try next fortified week.

[gaunt moat]

Also you wanna use it from stealth for empowered garrote

[viral aurora]

So, I got the Whelpling trinket in vault, 421. Any insights? Anyone tried it properly?

[dreamy elk]

Feels like lowering the cooldown on IC would solve a lot of issues with trash DPS on mythic+.

[chilly herald]

It allows a pug party to waste their kicks simultaneously, so you keep your one for the next important spell

[gaunt moat]

I don't mind it shorter by like 10s just so you'll have it for every pack

Now i sometimes wait in stealth

[chilly herald]

But yeah, no value from that

[dreamy elk]

Thanks all for responses. Super helpful.

[frosty cedar]

make CT baseline

[dreamy elk]

That'd be amazing.

[gaunt moat]

More likely for CT to be removed

It's an ability that doesn't know what it wants from itself

Is it a dot? Is it instant damage?
No one knows

[storm onyx]

I forgot, if the dot part of CT rolls over?

[gaunt moat]

You mean does pandemic affect it?

[storm onyx]

I mean, it used to; or I miss remember, no, the dot part used to add up if you cast over apart from pandemic.

Or i am making it up in my mind

[gaunt moat]

Yes it does affect it

[flint ridge]

Damn if ct is baseline we can now pad a bit of damage on mythic rasz, kurog, sennarth, eranog etc yay

[kind forge]

ct and bp baseline as is bf for outlaw

[dreamy elk]

Man if only BP was baseline (again) for sub.

[oak sky]

Its called an aoe finisher

[eager sorrel]

Letting CT roll stacks would be the change I would love to see in m+. We effectively don't have an aoe finisher as is.

Other change I would kill for is sepsis being 45s to align with every IC usage. Right now it basically competes with shrouded suffocation and DTB...

It needs a lot of power to even be considered there (imo).

[gaunt moat]

except not always.. and it's a dot, so it's not really good AoE
but then you buff instant damage so it's more AoE..
it's bad.

[rotund wagon]

From an rpg standpoint, hard to make someone bleed if you don’t cut them first. All bleeds should have instant damage :p. Devils advocate

[stray mural]

We just need a black powder esque ability. Something on theme.

Two ae spenders would be cool. One for the bleed and one that interacts with your bleeds

[rotund wagon]

I don’t want the world. I just want to be able to have some respectable aoe without having to fully talent into it

Enh shaman changes like 1 talent point if they want to aoe vs st

[silk rover]

Something like an AoE envenom after crimson would be awesome

[royal lantern]

we let CT stack?

congratz, CT is now a high Priority skill in ST aswell 🙂

[eager sorrel]

Not saying it refreshes, just rolls

[royal lantern]

CT should do dmg based on the amount of bleeds all the targets it hit had, and then do instant dmg and no dot itself

reward multidotting, and proper aoe dmg as a payoff

and no shity ct in st situation

[eager sorrel]

Is CT really better than envenom in ST still?

[royal lantern]

if we just give CT more dmg, yes, we end up with CT on st again

espacily when lethal Dose is a thing

[eager sorrel]

But who is saying give cr more damage? If stacks roll separately it is the same DPS independent of the target is CT'd or not

[shut owl]

Last time I checked it was prior to 10.0.5 with KB m+ build, but I was getting improved st damage by maintaining it outside of KB/dm windows.

[eager sorrel]

Outside of dm surprises me, given the double damage to bleeds.

I honestly just listen to the guide that says 2+, given envenoms debuff etc I don't feel like fleecrafty is the way to be.

[shut owl]

I mean... It was simmed but sure

It's very marginal

Dm doesn't copy CT pretty sure

But it does copy your poisons, so keeping envenom up outpaces keeping CT up

[teal bloom]

Yeah ct isn't copied

[eager sorrel]

Durrr ya no CT on deathmark

[shut owl]

CT outside of cd windows is pretty close to envenom damage if you are including the dot, so maintaining it nets you an extra 2% on most of your damage

[bold rivet]

Guys, does atrophic poison stack if 2 rogues apply it? So to ~6-7%?

[gray crest]

No just one

[storm onyx]

No it doesnt

[bold rivet]

Cool, thanks

[eager barn]

!logs

[prisma monolith]

Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage

Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/

[royal lantern]

when you have 2 rogues, 1 goes atrohpic, the other goes mindnumbing

[lusty surge]

IC should affect CT and cast it 8 times smh

[gaunt moat]

Honestly i don't really care about making sin really good at aoe
just make it good at cleave.
having only ST niche is very limiting.
almost no encounter is only ST

[lusty surge]

Isn't sin competitive with outlaw in cleave

[rain oyster]

With the nerf to add health, is assass with crimson tempest just better than outlaw for mythic Kurogg? Seems to be more of a prio target fight with passive cleave now rather than a hardcore cleave fight

We have him at 9% so should die tonight. Was thinking about going mut

[strange python]

Depends on comp

Considering how easily specs like balance, destro/aff, shadow, DH, etc all do cleave damage without sacrificing too much ST, sin was already probably the smarter spec for prog.

Boss damage is the part of the fight that's gonna be difficult for most guilds

[rain oyster]

Yea I think our add dmg is fine just feel like me being outlaw I do less to the boss/less dmg overall than I would as sin.

[strange python]

You definitely should do more boss dam as sin than outlaw

[rain oyster]

And i think 2 target with crimson tempest and dots on adds, it’s comparative to outlaw

Maybe slightly more skewed towards boss dmg but overall dmg on 2 target would be the same

[royal lantern]

you can do good cleave, but lose again a good chunk of ST for that

[boreal cloud]

on a boss like terros that goes around 5 mins, would potting on pull w/ lust or at 4 mins with execute damage be a bigger gain?

[gleaming geyser]

On pull with lust for sure

[boreal cloud]

i guess you can pot again at 5 mins then

[gleaming geyser]

Ya, was about to say, there are only 19 sub 5 minute mythic terros kills logged, so odds are you would get 2nd pot

you can delay your third deathmark to line up with your 2nd pot if your killtime is 5:30

[versed canopy]

I would love an actual AOE finisher

[brazen zodiac]

[slow marsh]

Let's be honest here.

We could get everything

And people will still find a way to complain

[rain oyster]

10.1 Exanguinate node changed to new talent “Throw Tendies” AoE finisher move that throws tendies at all who come before you

[versed canopy]

I also think Exang is too long of a CD

[royal lantern]

cease

you dont know what you are talking about

[slim drift]

Personally I just want a second stack of vanish for M+

[royal lantern]

exsang got that cd for a reason

[versed canopy]

was it too strong?

[gaunt moat]

Maybe they should change exsang to be 45 sec CD

[slim drift]

Cursed: Make exsang the aoe finisher

[storm forum]

exsang should be a choice node between current exsang and a flat 900% damage increase

[slow marsh]

I will say this

All dot specs have a way to deal instant aoe damage based on dots

except sin

We have CT, which is yet another dot

[subtle tundra]

and whats the problem with that

make us actually do dmg

and it doesnt matter

[slow marsh]

I'm saying part of the reason we don't do damage in m+ is because of that

[versed canopy]

well we do have poison bomb, and we now have arterial precision

[subtle tundra]

it isnt

the numbers arent good enough

thats all

[slim drift]

We do damage in M+

It's just inconsitent/pack dependent

[lusty surge]

I'm doing fine damage in m+

[slow marsh]

I mean you can always bandaid things with numbers

[lusty surge]

Or at least my boon is

[slim drift]

Think second stack of vanish would actually fix most of it

[lusty surge]

Enemies would literally never cast with 2 stacks of vanish

[slow marsh]

2nd vanish would be too broken

[subtle tundra]

i would hate assa to do instant dmg

[lusty surge]

That shit would be busted

[storm forum]

we have second vanish for M+, it's called shadowmeld

it owns

[subtle tundra]

L alliance

[lusty surge]

What about 3rd vanish

Aka sepsis

Vanish at home

[slow marsh]

I'm cooking something up rn actually thanks for reminding me I need to work on it

[dreamy gull]

Sylvanas simp

[versed canopy]

im a sylvanas simp. whats wrong with that?

[dreamy gull]

https://tenor.com/view/list-amazinggrace-court-watching-scroll-gif-13488308

[lusty surge]

Dark lady watch over you

As they say

[slow marsh]

I don't mean we should do instant damage as in black powder. I would just like to see something similar to what the other dot specs get as far as payoffs for spreading dots

instead of spread dots, saturate energy, spam CT or envenom depending on target count

[lusty surge]

It was kb lol

Get 8bstacks of scent of blood

[royal lantern]

how the fuck does kb help with aoe mate

like what the hell are you talking about

[lusty surge]

And then just obliterate a priority target

[slow marsh]

Na he's kinda right

KB gives prio damage in an aoe build

with scent

[storm forum]

i mean, I'm pretty sure that if you wanna do instant damage on your finisher, you just play sub

[dreamy gull]

Just make a talent that makes envenom cleave to ruptured enemies

Or something

[storm forum]

like im very happy with not having a lot of instant damage on CT

[lusty surge]

I think that's poison bomb

Lol

[dreamy gull]

They could also buff fan imo

[storm forum]

poison bomb AoE is too small, we want spread envenom cleave

[versed canopy]

I dont like that 3 big aoe options are split to different sides of the tree

[gaunt moat]

After FoK in legion, that will never happen

[royal lantern]

why do you act as if PB is a aoe tool

[storm forum]

because

we have a lot of AoE tools

[lusty surge]

Fok is the absolute worst spell I've ever had the displeasure of castibg

I love sin but damn

[loud light]

oh come on, there's always the beta version of black powder that animation locked you in midair

[storm forum]

you dont like going into AA with nearly 50% crit with black dragon buff and pressing fan on the tree boss adds and getting 1 combo point?

[dreamy gull]

They could change that fan talent under ct
Make it consume 2 seconds of ct or something

[royal lantern]

like man, this channel sometimes has the weirdest ideas

[dreamy gull]

Idk

[lusty surge]

My blood pressure just spiked

[storm forum]

you have the blue/teal name, just press the shuriken storm button and call it a day

[versed canopy]

why does fok not always give the correct number of CP?

[magic vine]

honestly despite fok having better range it feels like it performs worse than storm for giving cp

[dreamy gull]

Seal fate

[loud light]

you get CP from seal fate procs, not targets hit

[storm forum]

FoK CP is based off how much it crits due to seal fate. So sometimes you get unlucky and crit nothing and cry

[versed canopy]

oh...

i dont like thast

[storm forum]

but you expected to crit so you already queued up a CT and wanna extra die

[lusty surge]

It used to feel a lot worse

[dreamy gull]

How do you even buff fan without making it shuriken storm

[versed canopy]

didnt it used to be based on number of targets hit?

[lusty surge]

At least you can go again with tea lol

[storm forum]

wrong spec

[prisma cypress]

make it proc poisons 100% of the time

[slow marsh]

make it deal increased damage based on how many bleeds are on a target

[dreamy gull]

More dtb

[magic vine]

damn lol, just give sin storm. or like, some sort of dot interaction yea

[subtle tundra]

hurr durr give sin storm

[versed canopy]

which spec is that?

[storm forum]

shuriken storm from sub

[magic vine]

you don't want cp per target hit?

[slow marsh]

it has to happen every 2 months

[royal lantern]

every 2 weeks

[dreamy gull]

Make fan reduce damage dealt by targets by 5% for one second so every raid needs a sin player pressing the button nonstop

[modern dust]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[dreamy gull]

[arctic mural]

is the ring from CoS our bis rn?

[storm forum]

i like FoK has increased chance to crit for every poison/bleed on a target, so you get nearly 100% chance to crit on FoK when everything is up

[oak sky]

I dont think thats a good idea now that we have ic

[dreamy gull]

Why is poisoned dagger a spell

[fallow canopy]

got a 418 windswept pages and the proc is the most rng crap I've ever seen

[storm forum]

i think it's a good idea because of IC

[storm forum]

you dont like holding exsang for an rng haste proc?

[oak sky]

You realize with ic it just makes it shuriken storm right

Just checking

[oak sky]

I think they like giving every spec some sort of ranged spell

[storm forum]

yeah but imagine the feels bad moment when you get 1 CP with 99% chance to crit

[brazen zodiac]

it is what it is

[slow marsh]

realistically that doesn't happen

as much as people meme about it

if you're using fan when you should you shouldn't be getting 1 cp

[royal lantern]

because otherwhise you could not aggro flying enemys?

[storm forum]

yeah it doesnt rly happen, sometimes you get 3 or 4 cp though

[oak sky]

Its not really a big deal

[royal lantern]

like, all melee specs have 1 shity ranged skill to pull flying enemys

[dreamy gull]

jade lightning

[fallow canopy]

in general, in a 4:30 min fight it procced 6 times and on a 5:50 3 times and 2 of those were like 30 apart on the last min and a half

[dreamy gull]

[storm forum]

2 procs in execute

[lusty surge]

High roller

[minor gate]

all my mastery gems became haste

[keen spruce]

that's lookin a lot like an exang build for someone with that name

[slow marsh]

puzzlebox does that

[turbid heath]

what Phials we running for raids? I just simmed and saw Tepid Vers was better than Ele Chaos?

[oak sky]

Vers good

[turbid heath]

why haste and not crit?

[west gyro]

!neck

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.

[cursive frost]

At certain stat levels I guess haste starts to gain more than mastery and crit

[lament warren]

stats accentuate each other

[turbid heath]

No shade but looking at the ilvl on his gear I dont think he's hitting those yet?

[cursive frost]

I know I have over like 4k crit and 2800 mastery and I get told to replace mine with crit haste

[lament warren]

more haste means more ticks and more ticks means more chances to crit

etc

[spice spire]

You fan at 3 or over so sometimes indeed you do get 1cp

But it doesn’t happen as much as people make it out to be

[cursive frost]

I usually don’t bother swapping gems until it’s worth at least .3%

[turbid heath]

current stats

[lament warren]

haste is just in general a good stat for sin

[spice spire]

Occasionally it happens and I tilt off the face of the earth

[lament warren]

because sin doesn’t really have any exceptional stat scaling

so stats are just good

[spice spire]

S word is banned here

Delete this rn nephew

[cursive frost]

So theoretically we may end up getting weaker and weaker as the expansion goes on? Unless they tweak our class

[teal bloom]

scaling monkaW

[slow marsh]

scaling?

[lament warren]

lmao

it’s not wrong

it’s not like dh where 80% of your crit becomes crit damage

[robust spear]

Ruby whelp shell trinket any good for assassination?

[lament warren]

it sims good but in practice it’s highly inconsistent

[slow marsh]

that's like the opposite of me

[lament warren]

the st proc is good for most classes but the trinket will grief you when you need it most

[robust spear]

Ah heck, got a really good one in the vault 😦

[lament warren]

bait trinket

[storm forum]

Once you train it its a good passive trinket

[lament warren]

unfortunately

yeah it’s good in theory

it just has exceptional variance

1ppm and then a chance to just not proc what you trained

[storm forum]

You gotta take the triple fire balls on pull with the random heal ur friends when they're at full hp

[lament warren]

lmfao

ride or die with the whelp

[storm forum]

BiS trinket for RPing too

[lament warren]

kinda true

[fading mason]

lf spark

[turbid heath]

if you're gemming Haste - do you take Howling or Buzzing runes then?

I'm confused when should we start taking some haste lol

[robust spear]

Would you say ruby whelp is better than windswept pages? 🤔 Simming it it shows that I get higher DPS with ruby but I dont know... Basically cant find shit about it online lol

[lament warren]

both of those trinkets are kinda dog

[lament warren]

you can sim that too

[robust spear]

Aye, that's why I'm considering just picking ruby whelp, higher ilvl and I currently have windswept lol... Shit ton more Agi as well from Ruby. Everything else in the vault was crap xD

[lament warren]

re: the previous discussion, it’s also worth noting that haste gets a bit of value from exsang

dunno how much but pog

i love haste

[lament warren]

slam the whelp

you gotta

[robust spear]

Eh, let it get mature before I slam it :^)

[modest gale]

can i use same daggers from terros?

[sacred wolf]

Would you guys pick 418 tier piece and catalyst a random piece, or a 421 piece and catalyst it?

[thorny pond]

Are you a mythic raider?

and what random piece?

[thorny pond]

mhmn

[sacred wolf]

Just cleared heroic, so mythic probably soon soon.. random piece would be 411 legs.

[thorny pond]

You get 6 so use with caution. Also what tier pieces?

[sacred wolf]

The tier piece would be chest. Just worried I'll regret not getting the 421 piece and use the catalyst on it and "only" getting the 418 for 4set asap

[thorny pond]

What slot though? Like is it legs, helm etc?

[terse orchid]

feels good to be somewhat back

[limber lion]

top 8%

somewhat back

easy for you

[royal lantern]

humble braging is not cool btw

[scenic tulip]

Hey guys how do you feel to play assa in m+? i want to get KSM and would love to do it as assa if possible 🙂

[thorny pond]

KSM as sin is possible yea

There are some M+ builds here:

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[scenic tulip]

oh my thats alot

[terse orchid]

Only because good people dont do heroic sennarth anymore right

[scenic tulip]

I feel so weak outside CD's as assa is that a thing

[keen spruce]

There's a good cookie cutter M+ build on the wowhead guide

[scenic tulip]

cookie cutter? whats that

[keen spruce]

like default

[scenic tulip]

sorry i started rogue like -1 week ago

oh nice

[keen spruce]

cookie cutter is just an expression

[scenic tulip]

if you can do you mind sending me that? does it involve a rotation also?

[terse orchid]

The wowhead guide has everything

[keen spruce]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/talent-builds-pve-dps

why did I have to send it, it's on wowhead

[terse orchid]

Because he might've been a DH main before this

[scenic tulip]

no aoe garrote in tree 😮

[limber lion]

Sure they do

[scenic tulip]

no i hate DH

[terse orchid]

Indiscriminate Carnage talent

[limber lion]

You're blasting, dw

[scenic tulip]

yeah its not there in

[terse orchid]

Then you're looking at the wrong talent build

Probably the raid one

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/mythic-plus-dungeon-tips

[scenic tulip]

oh yes ty

[next edge]

https://i.gyazo.com/83a4234c27294ca35a89f7cd3b61d123.png

@gusty mirage

I love you

thanks for helping me so much

[terse orchid]

casual 96%

[sacred wolf]

The 421 piece are shoulders

[thorny pond]

not bad to catalyst them

[terse orchid]

Think heroic razs is doable with 2/2/6 for a progression group?

I wanna help my friends but my pc can't handle more people on that fight lol

[thorny pond]

Yea it can be done

[spare owl]

Hello everyone! I have been looking for a complete description of how the damage of certain abilities in our rotation is calculated, but the resources i have found give me a damage value that doesn't match in-game tooltip. Does anyone know a complete description of, for example, the Fan of Knives damage calculation?

wowdb comes close, but still doesn't match

[thorny pond]

In-game tooltips are known to be ass

WoW-Head and WoWDB is where I would check

[proper tapir]

What'd you do differently?

[thorn crater]

guild FINALLY killed raz heroic

jesus

[mild canyon]

Guys maybe a dumb question but I've been struggling with this: do we precast puzzle box before pull on Terros?

I keep messing it up if I cast it just before deathmark in normal opener

[proper tapir]

The circle stack thing / movement is messing you up?

[mild canyon]

Yes, every. damn. time.

Like 1/8 pulls I get it right

[proper tapir]

Yeah so don't stack in the first one

[mild canyon]

Won't you take damage on Mythic though if you don't stack?

Or do I just cloak it?

[proper tapir]

Oh if you get targeted you should stack or cloak it. Just gotta get used to holding while the dance happens

[mild canyon]

The difference between getting puzzle woven in correctly and not is night and day

I'll try to play around it

Thanks

[proper tapir]

Yeah, sometimes I have to delay exsang/box for 1 GCD because I am moving. I just cast the envenom early in those times. But most of the time you shouldn't have to go in the big circle and you can stand out of it for opener

[royal lantern]

tbf, with hero you should be able to cast it

cus then the box channel is 1sec

[indigo mulch]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[ornate valley]

assa rogue on hero rasz progression, should I use DM/exsang on adds off cd or only on boss?

[sudden sigil]

very scared now but can someone look at this log and yell at me for whatw im doing wrong?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WFM6RTxaNnBb3DKj#fight=36&type=damage-done&source=2

[trail anvil]

Does shiv AMP Atrophic's DR? or did blizzard take that out?

[proud salmon]

that's gone i believe

[kindred oriole]

!whyspir

[wary ice]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[wary ice]

i got u

[kindred oriole]

Can never get these 'i' and 'y'

[pseudo hamlet]

When we were doing Rasza on progress I was keeping DM/Exang for the first and third shield(we had little problems with breaking it on our first tries).

[glass root]

is there a log manuplation on raszageth heroic or am i just not performing as i should

im giving everything i got and my log is still 50

[dark token]

yes

i manipulate my log

to 97%

so ur 50

everyone above u is manipulating

everyone below u suck

[glass root]

i mean im asking seriously

[oak sky]

Remember that one feral druid

[royal lantern]

was never a thing at all

[loud light]

in order for log manipulation to cause you parse 50s, literally half of all logs would need to be 'manipulated'

[glass root]

i didnt say half of them were manipulated

im just asking if there is anything that i might been missing on that boss

[dark token]

im answerin gseriously

i manipulate my log

by pressing cds and buttons correctly

it results in higher log

[slow marsh]

it was early beta

[drifting cosmos]

didnt turn in my catalyst quest last week, does that mean I only get 1 for this week?

[steel sorrel]

Turn it in and see if you can pick up another q?

What choice do you have? wait until next week? xD

[drifting cosmos]

doesnt seem like the quest popped up again lol

I mean thought it's catch up so it shouldnt be time gated but oh well

[severe sparrow]

i feel like my box usually ends up getting channeled as im standing in the first soak circle on terros

[steel sorrel]

Hmm, I always finish the cast when I need to step out

[severe sparrow]

yeah that's about when

like cast and immediately dip

[steel sorrel]

So I usually get: Finish channel - start moving out - vanish while moving out - garrote - excang etc

[severe sparrow]

not that im an expert, my mythic parses are trash

[limpid ermine]

yeah thats where mine was lining up too

if I didn't get pillars, I would be able to cast and move before the eruption went off

if I got pillars, I would wait until they dropped to the use box

kind of annoying

[rugged jewel]

Is Val'ky Ascension Signet with socket, better than Jeweled Signet of Melandrus? 🤔

[sick marsh]

!log

[prisma monolith]

Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage

Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/

[sudden canyon]

does the deathmark extra bleed proc our energy regen?

similar to having garrote/rupture up on 2 targets?

[sullen silo]

Guys Quick question, I dont rly like carnage, do i handicap myself much for taking shiv capstone and dtb instead in m+?

[steel ridge]

Yes

[balmy condor]

Yes

[balmy condor]

Sim, but probably not

[rugged jewel]

Jeweled Signet sims -39 compared to Val'kyr 🤷‍♂️

[sullen silo]

IV heard that shiv capstone is not Far away in terms of dmg in dslice compared to carnage

[balmy condor]

Compared to dtb

Not carnage

[steel ridge]

You heard?

[balmy condor]

That’s within margin

[rugged jewel]

Within margin? What does that mean exactly? That they're equally good or..?

Thank you for the help btw

[balmy condor]

Yeah, sims have margins of error, they aren’t accurate to the exact dps

-39 is usually within margin

[sudden canyon]

is it not worth prepping for a shiv window before deathmark, and DM should just be sent on CD every 2 mins and refresh whatever needs to be refreshed in the deathmark window. (im currently refreshing everything before deathmark and just worrying about the shiv window)

[balmy condor]

Margin for most people it’s between like 40 and 50

[balmy condor]

You just slam shiv on cooldown

[rugged jewel]

Ah alright - but would it be fair to assume that the auto attack bonus would likely perform better in reality?

[balmy condor]

What

Why would it

[sudden canyon]

ah

[rugged jewel]

yeah no

[balmy condor]

It’s just extra damage

Extra damage is extra damage

[rugged jewel]

yeah

[sullen silo]

So thats like 6% loss playing perfectly, So in my hands like half of that. Im not pve player So i dont know if its huge diffirence

[balmy condor]

6% is unplayable in pve

Unless there’s some hyper-niche situation where you can justify it

[sudden canyon]

i hate that i always theorycraft myself some ideas about how spells should interact to get the most out of them and it always ends up being "send on cooldown"

[balmy condor]

But usually like anything that’s 3-5% worse is just dead

[stable pasture]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[balmy condor]

People love overcomplicating Assassination

[sullen silo]

Is there any possible scenario where i need arterial more than carnage then?

[balmy condor]

You’re not alone

[balmy condor]

The only place where like it might be better is jade temple

[sudden canyon]

im playing double shiv, i prefer this playstyle. ill hold the dps L for a little fun.

[balmy condor]

But it’s still questionable as all hell

[sudden canyon]

idk blizz kinda baits you with all the synergistic talents that sound good on paper. i wouldnt blame people for overcomplicating it, i get the feeling if simming wasnt a thing it would be overcomplicated way more.

[sullen silo]

Its kinda weird for me that 5%talent diffirence is dead but a lot more class diffirence is just ,,play what u want'' 😄

Nontheless thank you all

[grim breach]

Did sepsis not activate improved garrote?

[balmy condor]

Because optimizing a spec is a lil bit different than playing the best spec on a fight. Assassination looks like the absolute worst rogue spec right now, but it does the most damage. There’s difference in damage profiles that justify their existence way more than a random graph on Warcraftlogs saying it’s bad

[balmy condor]

It was bugged forever, it should now though

[sullen silo]

So how hard is assa compared to other rog specs in m+? Like for newbies in pve

[magic vine]

i don't think any of the rogue specs are hard, but they're complicated in different ways. so its pretty dependant on each person

[thorn crater]

Sorry looks like an English barrier for me. By looks like you mean just appearances cause of Warcraft logs? Or actually should be worst based on sims?

[balmy condor]

Warcraftlogs

[elder juniper]

hey guys, what is that +1 Sparkle?

[balmy condor]

That’s what you get when you remove an embellishment

[elder juniper]

ohhhhhhh

thanks!

[thorn crater]

Got myself a sweet 95 parse on Hc raz. Prolly cause guild is kinda bad so we held lust until first shield

[grim breach]

Thanks, I kind of see it working on single, but not seeing it work to activate IC/Iron Wire silence, is that also a bug or intended somehow?

[balmy condor]

Honestly no idea

You’re the first person to ever play sepsis

A pioneer ahead of your time

[grim breach]

Just exploring lol

[balmy condor]

God speed

That shit is the biggest garbage

[slow marsh]

true I tried

We get nothing out of sepsis that we can't already get

[balmy condor]

It works great in making me want to throw up

[grim breach]

My issue is somehow, none cares for the rogue going into stealth to cast big IC garrotes, so I was exploring options, especially for shade weeks. It's gotten so bad I considered Shadow Dance lol.

[slow marsh]

shadow dance is better than sepsis

[balmy condor]

Ah but “no one cares for the rogue going into stealth to cast big IC garrotes”, are also the rogues

[slim drift]

No one even knows wtf IC is

Ouside of rogues

[grim breach]

But I kind of am keen on always doing that

[slim drift]

Or even assasination rogues

[balmy condor]

You lose more damage playing sepsis than you lose from not getting restealths

[slow marsh]

You could do worse than taking dance over ER tbh. Like pick KB

[slim drift]

I blow people's minds by linking iron wire it's great

[slow marsh]

dance is 4% behind in ST with like 3 useless talents above it

[balmy condor]

Restealths Just kinda…. Arent important

[grim breach]

I feel I need them to be competitive somehow

[balmy condor]

Yeah, I assure you that you don’t

[slow marsh]

IC garrote is already competitive

[balmy condor]

I did 104k in a pug nokhud the other day and the tank legit pulled with spitefuls up every single pull

It’s fine

Might feel bad to not get to stealth

But it doesn’t hinder your damage as much as you think

[gusty mirage]

that may be the goldfish + milk

[grim breach]

Yeah it does feel bad somehow, like i'm missing out, but I hear you.

[balmy condor]

You’re mad cause I discovered a new cereal

[gusty mirage]

ngl I was thinking about it

if someone was eating goldfish and drinking a glass of milk

I wouldn't think twice about it

[slow marsh]

If you're actually getting that screwed out of stealth and feel you want to change it up to try something new then just go dance

[gusty mirage]

just that they're weird for drinking a glass of milk

so like

maybe it's not as crazy as it first seemed

[balmy condor]

The cheese dust in the milk afterwards is real bad though

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

Don’t recommend drinking the leftover milk

But like

[slow marsh]

yeah but cheese and milk are buds as it is so it's not as bad

[balmy condor]

Actually just eating it like cereal

Big fine

[dark bridge]

!pb

uhh, whats the puzzle box command?

[gusty mirage]

great question

!box

[prisma monolith]

Algeth'ar Puzzle Box usage:
When playing Exsanguinate, use Puzzle Box just before pressing Exsanguinate. Otherwise always sync Puzzle Box with Deathmark.
Holding Puzzle Box and Exsanguinate for a minute to sync with the 4 minute Deathmark is generally beneficial. Using Puzzle Box on cooldown can be beneficial with very specific fight lengths.

[balmy condor]

!puzzle

[prisma monolith]

Algeth'ar Puzzle Box usage:
When playing Exsanguinate, use Puzzle Box just before pressing Exsanguinate. Otherwise always sync Puzzle Box with Deathmark.
Holding Puzzle Box and Exsanguinate for a minute to sync with the 4 minute Deathmark is generally beneficial. Using Puzzle Box on cooldown can be beneficial with very specific fight lengths.

[balmy condor]

Oh

[gusty mirage]

both of them work

[slow marsh]

!puzzlebox

[gusty mirage]

[slow marsh]

[dark bridge]

ty!

[gusty mirage]

I couldve sworn !puzzlebox worked once upon a time

[balmy condor]

You could add it

You have the power

[gusty mirage]

yeah

[strange python]

Jfc who’s dick do i have to suck to get a dagger to drop. I’ve ran all 4 dun’s that drop daggers like 10x each and still nothing

[gusty mirage]

but that would require me to actually do something

idk but if you find out

lmk

[strange python]

😂💀

[slim drift]

Blacksmith

[polar cape]

make sure you actually dagger loot spec <.<

[strange python]

Yeah i was assa and sub

[gusty mirage]

a weapon's never dropped for me on my rogue from end of the dungeon loot

so I just made mine

and then lucked into the shittiest possible dungeon dagger (haste vers) for a 421

wahoo

[slow marsh]

I should be trying to run m+ right now

but instead i'm sitting here trying to make apl work

[strange python]

Yeah i need to find where to see prof daggers and see if i can afford one lol

[gusty mirage]

primal molten alloys have fallen in price

you can probably just settle for t2 mats

save a shit ton of gold

[strange python]

Not sure what any of that is lol.

Just got back like 2 weeks ago from a 14 year break 😅

[gusty mirage]

oh man

you have a fun time ahead of you

lemme log in to my lock

I'll send a screenshot of the materials needed

[strange python]

Thanks lmao.

DM them to me this way i don’t miss it and forget about it because of the kids 😂

[winter vapor]

yeah im only back from SL and it makes no sense to me either buddy so dw

[gusty mirage]

the infuse with power section lets you upgrade it to 418 eventually

its pretty nice

[winter vapor]

what is the default level craft oxi?

[strange python]

Perfect thanks.

[eternal vortex]

392

[strange python]

Ballpark in gold?

[gusty mirage]

for the dagger w/o infusions

depends on the crafter, but pretty much everyone should be able to guarantee a 392 at this point

as for the alloys

[eternal vortex]

i mean its kinda worth to pick up BS even for yourself

[gusty mirage]

for NA prices

not stupid expensive

yeah picking up blacksmithing yourself or on an alt

will save you the headache of finding people to recraft

[eternal vortex]

also u can make money with it

[gusty mirage]

that's what I ended up doing

[eternal vortex]

same

[gusty mirage]

getting bsmithing on an alt

and just making my own dagger

[minor valve]

Also, generally speaking, you should be able to find someone who can inspire into Rank 5 with only a Rank 2 Primal Molten Alloy. Save yourself some money!

[eternal vortex]

i take it on my rogue and after i made my dagger i basicly made money

[gusty mirage]

yea get the r2s

[eternal vortex]

and got bored of it after 2 days kek

[slow marsh]

Do tinkers take up an embellishment slot?

[balmy condor]

No

[high mist]

I don't think you're allowed to complain about not getting a dagger to drop if you didn't go almost the entirety of SL without ever seeing a Syl dagger (except in every other rogue's hand) 😄

[strange python]

😂 yeah not familiar with SL but i had plenty of that in MC and BWL back in vanilla

[high mist]

a long legacy of pain lol

[nimble tartan]

if u wanted it u wouldve had it

[spice spire]

True

This man had a rogue arrow the raid for it

[thorny pond]

Hey @spice spire

[outer cairn]

Lol got my second one finally near the end of S2.

[spice spire]

Hi

[high mist]

I got my first when you could finally buy them at the very end. Dozens of kills between LFR, Normal, and Heroic - never even saw a single one drop. Of course most of those involved me being the only rogue in the raid so that didn't help!

[royal lantern]

dropped my first and only edge of night 2weeks before DF launched

[opal elm]

if you pull a guy with garrote and tricks up do you get hit or does he go for the tricks target immediately?

[sand elm]

tricks doesnt apply instantly so ull get slapped still

i kept getting hit on my guilds mythic terros prog cos of it

[opal elm]

hm i dont recall having this issue in old expansions

[silk bane]

the healers in our raid started betting on which rogues cheat would proc on pull because of this. our MW made bank from it

[sand elm]

haha

[balmy condor]

it was still there, but less prominent because we didn't open with garrote

[brazen zodiac]

🕺

[opal elm]

well i opened with garrote in 2011 lol

[balmy condor]

sure :P

bit of a different game now

[opal elm]

yeah but am imagining it or have they actually changed how tricks work

[balmy condor]

in 12 years? no clue

I just know it was an issue in 8.3 too

[opal elm]

do you open with garrote in wotlk
does anyone play classic or something lmao

[dark token]

It's been like this permanently

Just don't open till the boss moves

It's not hard lol

Oh no 0.1s of dps

Often if needs to reposition anyway so it's fine to so so

Don't be the first hit

[opal elm]

or pop evasion before stealth and soak a melee for the tank
be a hero

[vital arrow]

Where should I put torch in rotaion?

[balmy condor]

whenever it's up

you puzzle box with your opener and deathmark, so it never interferes

[vital arrow]

Even if I could cap on energy?

[balmy condor]

yeah, not a big issue

I mean ideally you wouldn't, right

but trying to force that seems rough

[magic vine]

i find i have to do this on stuff with adds a lot, especially kurog. a lot of tanks don't seem to know that the swirly is where the add will pop up

[vital arrow]

Thank you

[dark violet]

how much haste do u need on assa

[balmy condor]

0

[dark violet]

ok im a sub main and have no idea how to play the class. why am i always out of energy lol

[thorny pond]

do you have poisons on? garrote & rupture applied?

[balmy condor]

because that's how the spec works

[dark violet]

hmm ok i think i just need to learn the roto better

[balmy condor]

put poison on, apply gar/rup

[thorny pond]

drink tea

[balmy condor]

that's your energy

[dark violet]

does hvaing poisons on help energy

[thorny pond]

2nd row of sin talents

read them

that's the energy

[delicate berry]

Ok, it's nothing fancy but I'm digging the rosy cape and hood from the traders

[lament warren]

yes

[balmy condor]

Not only are they a third of your damage, you need it for venomous wounds

[dark violet]

yeahhh i just got it on ST

def an interesing spec

[lament warren]

poisons give me energy is probably the least interesting thing about it

u just think about unsubbing

when you forget

[dark token]

Someone link their top gear sim pls

[ebon notch]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gbuofek1nBv6txBv4ZrtQS

[balmy condor]

[ebon notch]

why you crying

[balmy condor]

that would be me if I had the 424's

[ebon notch]

you'll get there bud

[balmy condor]

we even have the same belt

[ebon notch]

omg :3

[balmy condor]

:3

did it drop raw with a socket for you too?

[ebon notch]

yessir

only took one socket so far

put it in eranog ring

[balmy condor]

I took my second socket this week

for cowl

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9EH6Gu8BixLRYShorHGQKj

it's legit just dagger and tier man

[desert sigil]

Looking to understand this PI spreadsheet a little better with respect to rogue: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1exJeu5eVe4bTmyg3WFx5PTxIWvDLi0j-WW-XWpGoG88/edit#gid=1711510822

On this sheet assa rogue looks really good for PI, however in the majority of logs on mythic boss kills PI is going to other classes that (according to this sheet) have lower value

Do you think just with the amount of movement involved in this raid PI has lower value on assa? Is this class stigma from how PI was distributed in previous tiers? Something else?

[dreamy gull]

what do i like do in elemental storms

i have done some and killed soem enemies

but i havent really had gear drop

also: does shiv apply both nonlethal posions with dtb?

[balmy condor]

idk, sin is like 4th on that list

you gotta be missing quite a few specs

or have a lot of PI's

to make it worth

[quaint sequoia]

I hate that blizz did not put PL in pugs. Pugged 8/8 hc 3 weeks now without winning anything. With PL I never went through a full clear without a drop

[keen spruce]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6zkkFCXLszAHCneJnDeojQ

daily frustrate whispyr sim

[dark token]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wzF3xV4vDhc6LuoomdPDkb

[gusty mirage]

why would your sim frustrate him

[dark token]

I'm down bad for eranog ring

Man

[quaint sequoia]

Does that even exist?

[keen spruce]

cuz i'm not playing exang or puzzle box

[gusty mirage]

hey man

its your damage

idk why it'd frustrate him

[dreamy gull]

i feel like i would do better if i could practice at like half speed lol
too bad thats not possible

[keen spruce]

[gusty mirage]

live your best life

[tacit otter]

just set monitor to half fps big brain

[keen spruce]

I was gonna switch, but then our RL quit and is soft electing me to do it now.

so less buttons and less brain

will probably net more damage for me now

[balmy condor]

Happy for you

[keen spruce]

i'm not happy

raid leading from rogue is butts

i'm just gonna be a glorified big wigs announcer

[royal lantern]

seli did it for years, and he is like, 80y at this point

[vapid sierra]

whats mastery cut off point

im at 33

[distant mesa]

https://www.wowanalyzer.com/report/KC3QHZ6PzxwrF7qD/6-Mythic+Terros+-+Kill+(6:17)/Annadorsa/standard this says I didn't have a food buff, but I have the Crit/Mastery food on?

granted my envenom usage was total ass but

[gaunt moat]

Our RL is an outlaw rogue.
how can you RL and play outlaw at the same time, i have no idea.

i tried outlaw, it OC'd my brain

[tacit otter]

it maybe wants you to use mainstat food i assume

[worthy timber]

so since kingsbane and DTB are the same capstone now and DTB is the go to talent, are we doing Amp poison, Deadly poison, cripling, atrophic for pve?

[dreamy gull]

https://i.imgur.com/lJ3MA9b.png

oo

isnt that one of the items i want

[vapid sierra]

what does proper shiv usage look like on st?

is it wrong to use it in the last 7 seconds of dtb instead of the first 7

[tacit otter]

afaik shiv on cd and hold 1 for dm

[oak sky]

Anytime during

[dreamy gull]

academy is fun

good dungeon

[vapid sierra]

what about not during dm

do i hold it for bursts

when im at 6/7 cp

[tacit otter]

slam it

on cd

[oak sky]

Yeah on cd

Can try to dump energy before to get a little more value from tea

[gaunt moat]

Personally i use Shiv at 4-5 CP

before an envenom

[oak sky]

Yeah thats good too

[strange python]

Going to try and get the blacksmith daggers, how do i get spark of integrity?

[gaunt moat]

i got one from completing m+
i know someone got it from digging dirt

(also, AKTUCUALYYY it's called spark of ingenuity 🤓 )

[tacit otter]

as long as you dont delay thats fine, but how often does that happen right

[dreamy gull]

https://i.imgur.com/8CGhLPa.png

does this look normal

[balmy condor]

In what Situation

[frigid pilot]

GG

[dreamy gull]

crawth boss in the uhh academy dungeon

[frigid pilot]

[oak sky]

Sorta

[balmy condor]

Yeah looks fine for single target

[oak sky]

Envenom a little low do you have amp?

[dreamy gull]

yeah

[tacit otter]

havent seen one in normal or heroic sadge

[oak sky]

Oh wait fuck i lagged

Sorry

[frigid pilot]

first one ive seen all expansion

[balmy condor]

Dungeon boss though

[oak sky]

Oh true

I lagged

[balmy condor]

Just in time to replace it with a mythic icon

[gaunt moat]

i might miss a few shiv usages that way. but nothing major.

[balmy condor]

Missing shivs

[tacit otter]

isnt losing shiv casts a major thing?

[dreamy gull]

for groups of enemies i typically end up with ct > garrote > rupture > everything else

[gaunt moat]

i dunno, is it?

[balmy condor]

I mean idk bout major

Depends on what major means

It’s definitely not good

[gaunt moat]

like 3-5 casts during an enocunter that has downtimes

[balmy condor]

You’re missing 3-5 casts?

That’s

Kind of a big problem

[gaunt moat]

i checked one fight in analyzer and that's wha it said, didn't really look too much into it

[tacit otter]

major maybe the wrong word, but still not great

[misty holly]

I just macro shiv into all my abilities so I never miss casts.

[dreamy gull]

my first mythic felt eaiser than heroic

[balmy condor]

Missing 3 shivs is getting to the point of like

Serious rotational mistake

[gaunt moat]

i figured that using it to get 2 envenoms during it makes up for it.
let me check more fight in analyzer

[balmy condor]

It definitely doesn’t

[tacit otter]

getting x amount of envenoms in shiv is not a gain anyways

[tacit otter]

so why bother, just do the good old slam it on cd

[misty holly]

Make sure you are holding that shiv for 20 stacks amp poison so both those envenoms are empowered too.

[strange python]

Whispy

[gaunt moat]

i don't force an envenom, i just use shiv as a CP filler at the end

[strange python]

Think exsang gains value on kurog reclear with nerf to add health?

[frigid pilot]

[gaunt moat]

There are points i could use it and held a bit
https://wowanalyzer.com/report/TmqJ8MhNfcL2X1C4/1-Normal+Terros+-+Kill+(3:24)/Notter/standard

[balmy condor]

Yeah

That’s no good

[balmy condor]

If you held shiv to do that, you’re forcing it :P

[gaunt moat]

so you're using it even at 0-3 CP?

[crisp badger]

haste just keeps simming well, but im so low haste and dont want to put on lower ilvl haste gear. rip

[strange python]

Whispyr ignoring me 😦

[gaunt moat]

i meant i don't force a 2nd envenom during it heh
but usually its easier to do two the way i do it right now

[balmy condor]

I mean sure

I played full single target on kurog yesterday

Add damage was fine

[strange python]

Our adds fall over so fast :/

[misty holly]

Mastery/Crit/Haste all about equal for me in single target. In Dslice haste is bad, though.

[gaunt moat]

I'll take your silence as a yes.
I'll try being more liberal with it.

today was raid they though. and i didn't have internet whole day. still don't have.
unlucky.

[balmy condor]

I use it on cooldown

If it’s available

I use it

0 cp, 6cp

I’d rather overcap the combo points it generates

Than have it sitting there

[gaunt moat]

maybe i need to read again what shiv does

[balmy condor]

It increases all nature damage done to the target

Rotationally it’s basically just another debuff to keep up

[gaunt moat]

but like, it's a debuff that specifically enhances nature damage. which most of it is envenom.
so if you're not envenoming, it's not doing as much.

(i'm not saying you're wrong, just how it reads to casual)

[balmy condor]

Poisons do more than envenom though

[gaunt moat]

i mean, when i look at my damage breakdown

[crisp badger]

yeah i noticed, im at about 10% haste in my raid gear and 5% in my m+ gear

[gaunt moat]

envenom deals a whole lot more

[balmy condor]

Yeh with poison bomb I guess

Point still stands though

[gaunt moat]

no, i mean just the envenom, that's why i opened it

[balmy condor]

9.8 + 6.8 is about 17%

Your envenom is 14.6%

Seems more to me

[gaunt moat]

ah, i didn't consider amplifying.

I see

[brazen zodiac]

:o

[loud silo]

Combine all your poison damage together and it ends up more than envenom

Oh whispyr already got to it

[gaunt moat]

Now you're just bullying me

[dreamy gull]

oh ever mind it wasnt actually a mythic i played
didnt realize you have to do the group finder and not just queue for a dungeon

[balmy condor]

Missing a third of your shiv casts deserves some bullying

[dreamy gull]

i tried an actual mythic and my entire group wiped 3 times to the first trash

then i left

[loud silo]

I mean I CAN bully you if you want

Bully you into a godlike player

[gaunt moat]

Hey that's why I'm here, to learn all the new stuff they've added
shiv didn't exist 6 years ago

[dreamy gull]

is 350 not high enough ilevel
cause i was taking WAY more damage than im used to

[balmy condor]

Yeh gone are the days of vanishing envenoms into a master assassin toxic blade window

THE FUTURE IS NOW OLD MAN

[gaunt moat]

We had the OG kingsbane though

[magic vine]

heroics are 359 gear, so going into m0 at 350 is a bit low. generally though if you felt you were taking a ton of damage you were probably eating attacks you can avoid

[loud silo]

Honestly just give us TB back instead of shiv

[gaunt moat]

lol, my WAs comp is still up on the website.
nice page. totally not full of broken images or anything.
https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/notters-rogue-weak-auras-compilation/

[dreamy gull]

idk a damage thing appeared underneath me and INSTANTLY triggered feign death

from full health

and this is just trash

not a boss

[balmy condor]

Yeah webpage got revamped but no one wants to put anything on it cause why would we

[gaunt moat]

You know how hard i worked on the exsang/empowered garrote WA tracking

[balmy condor]

The webpage just kind of a relic at this point

[gaunt moat]

i had to use a lua database in script to hold all your targets, and track which one you've empowered
so when you switch targets, it would still show you which one is empowered/exsanged

[magic vine]

what dungeon? but generally if stuff hits like a truck you can get out of it

[loud silo]

That seems kinda suss

[dreamy gull]

azure vaults

some tree thing

[gaunt moat]

current WA i use doesn't show empowered garrotes when using IC. I wish it did.

[loud silo]

Do you really need a WA for empowered garrotes tho?

[strange python]

Can anyone give me a good assa pve build

[balmy condor]

#assassination-faq, wowhead, method, icyveins

[split grail]

Does shiv increase nature damage of non-class abilities? Like vulpera bag of tricks or trinkets?

[gaunt moat]

when dealing with many targets, maybe some of them were out of range of carnage? yeah, it would be nice to have

[balmy condor]

No

[split grail]

ty

[loud silo]

Whatever floats your boat i guess

[strange python]

Would i just follow the raid one for questing and dung’s? Will be ready to move to heroics within a day or so

[magic vine]

probably wild eruption, those are fully avoidable but can hit decently hard.

[gaunt moat]

it would be nightmare to script though

[balmy condor]

Would probably use the dtb m+

Since that’s for dungeons

[gaunt moat]

Unfortunately Garrote and empowered Garrote use the same Spell ID, it's just a modifier.
same with exsang, it's just a modifier for existing Spell IDs

[dreamy gull]

maybe ill just stick to heroic

[gaunt moat]

so tracking them is tricky

[magic vine]

like i said, heroics drop 359 gear, you can do storms for 359 gear that you can upgrade to 385. the new storm events got some uh, 389? rings/trinket as well

look into getting a primal molten shortblade forged with one of your sparks, it can get up to 389 and shouldn't be very expensive

[jaunty gulch]

hey I have a question

why is my ILVL % so trash here? The Warcraft analyzer says everything is allll green and hunky dorey

[strange python]

Thanks

[jaunty gulch]

https://www.wowanalyzer.com/report/zYhBw7t4Q3F8KGgr/21-Heroic+Kurog+Grimtotem+-+Kill+(4:24)/Hüda/standard

[storm forum]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

Cause ilvl% is a terrible metric

It’s just wildly inaccurate

Is what it is

[gaunt moat]

@jaunty gulchyou had no flask, you didn't use power potions for starters.
you don't have weapon and pants enchants
then you need to consider raid buffs.

[balmy condor]

Probably could’ve just as easily been green or low blue

But you’re comparing to a tiny sample size

From a very niche group

[gaunt moat]

also

[balmy condor]

Yeh

That’s not good

[gaunt moat]

there are many many things you can do to improve your dps right now

[jaunty gulch]

I actually have sophic writ 3 star on both weps unsure why it says I have nothing

but yeah lets talk about Shiv/Vanish

[balmy condor]

It’s just complaining cause you don’t have devotion

You have the worse enchant

[jaunty gulch]

I think I save vanish for deathmarks right?

whats the rule on shivs

[balmy condor]

On cooldown

[jaunty gulch]

just off CD?

I see kk

[gaunt moat]

scroll up 20 minutes ago, we had a conversation about shiv

[jaunty gulch]

Also I dont have any gold for consumables so of course if I spent money on it it would be better but I'm moreso checking for rotational errors

I'll Ctrl+F the shiv thing

[balmy condor]

Vanish with Deathmark is correct though yeah

[jaunty gulch]

I think they desynced somehow

[teal iris]

it's saying you didnt use sharpening stone not that you didnt have an enchant

[jaunty gulch]

oh I see

I actually dunno what that is LOL I'm gonna have to check it

[gaunt moat]

leg enchants are big too. they give agility.

[jaunty gulch]

I just turned my pants into teir I didnt notice it cleaned the enchant off

I'll go fix that one quick

whats the sharpening rune

is that the same as the buzzing rune stuff

[balmy condor]

Yeh, same but worse

[gaunt moat]

sharpening gives attack power

[teal iris]

ye

so you're missing like almost 500 crit

[jaunty gulch]

ok oko okok

[teal iris]

or is it 600

[jaunty gulch]

Besides the "Pay gold to do dps"

angle of this video game

I was mainly checking rotational errors

I will definitley want to check the Shiv thing though

[balmy condor]

Yes, just vanish and shiv

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[teal iris]

i mean they are dirt cheap and if you're looking at logs you should use them

since everyone else will be

[jaunty gulch]

sure sure

[brazen zodiac]

eh they were kinda expensive before the titan orb change

[jaunty gulch]

its more like a frame of reference rather than objective numbers

[brazen zodiac]

sophias was like 100k

[teal iris]

buzzing runes?

[brazen zodiac]

waking stats was like 8k lul

nah enchants

[gaunt moat]

You've asked why your ilvl% ranking is low, we answered that 🙂

[jaunty gulch]

yes yes

I wasn't aware the consumables was going to be this large

[gaunt moat]

it's really big.

Did you just forget to vanish at the start of the fight, or thought you did, or what?

[flint ridge]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[jaunty gulch]

I started in stealth and dont think I pressed Vanish until 14 seconds after

[gaunt moat]

your first vanish was 2 minutes into the fight

[jaunty gulch]

I think the 2nd Vanish comes up after the boss dies or right as he's coming