assassination

[ebon notch]

why

[balmy condor]

because you get 2 casts of it

the exsang timings are horrid

you use exsang first shield

irrelevant damage

pog

[carmine dawn]

sorry was in pull

[balmy condor]

now you're playing without a talent for the rest of p2

[ebon notch]

thats not really irrelevant tho

[balmy condor]

GIGA value

[ebon notch]

cause first shield going down faster means more time to do actual boss damage

[balmy condor]

sure

[carmine dawn]

but are you bringing it down that much faster

with exsang

1s vs .5s?

[ebon notch]

uhh i can check how much i did idk if we have any other logs to compare without exsang

[balmy condor]

so your claim is that exsanguinate is better than ip, because you do slightly more shield damage

and that means you get slightly more uptime

on the boss health

which is better

seems really cope

[ebon notch]

i didnt claim that?

i said id play w.e did more damage

[balmy condor]

okay

[ebon notch]

i didnt know that a 2nd point in ip was better

so i played exsang

[balmy condor]

but you said this

[balmy condor]

[ebon notch]

yeah but thats a fact

regardless of the state of taking exsang or not

[carmine dawn]

just play this week with IP

please

[ebon notch]

sure

[carmine dawn]

so i know

:)

[balmy condor]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/31#boss=2607&class=Rogue&spec=Assassination&metric=bossdps

[ebon notch]

this was my first shield dam

[balmy condor]

you can sort by boss damage

there's people playing without exsang

doing just fine

passassin the fucking clown played with boon

and he's 3rd in boss dam

he also is playing some venom rush shit

but ya know

se la vide

idk

I don't think exsanguinate is all that impressive for raz

[ebon notch]

boon is fine on that boss tho

its not necessary by any means

[carmine dawn]

oh lemme take back that kekl

[ebon notch]

but immuning one of the winds and then also being useful for a pack in first intermission is not a bad trade off

[balmy condor]

yeh but that's sorted by boss dam

idk

[ebon notch]

no ik

but the way you worded it

made it sound like boon was a bad choice

[balmy condor]

like 2-3 weeks ago I was helping a bunch of people on mythic raz

one of them sent this

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/uJuoA4SAb2iJXeL2Z4anogmiDwFlbAxSqvfhihsd2nY/https/i.gyazo.com/a7a302d1378426ca9e63e18e681c19ca.png?width=810&height=165

and I'm like

lmao

even if you completely ignore first phase and intermission

you get for first shield

then you get with cds on deathmark

and that's it

is it trolling? no of course not

but I think it's super unnecessary

[ebon notch]

yeah fair

[balmy condor]

I was talking about this with speed as well when method was on the boss

[ebon notch]

ill try with ip instead

[balmy condor]

he would've ran IP over exsang

but then swapped sub

I gotta look into why people are playing venom rush though

cause I can't get it to sim well

[ebon notch]

i mean

they probably took a point out

and just tried to find somewhere to dump it

[balmy condor]

yeah but you can't reach venom rush without going double shiv

you would have to take 2 points out

[ebon notch]

ew

wtf else did they lose?

[balmy condor]

ah well this was one before the patch kingsbane

maybe the fact that there's no split in wcl means it's just polluted with kingsbane builds

[ebon notch]

why didnt you tell me about ip when i was progging??

i couldve tested

[balmy condor]

you didn't ask

[ebon notch]

what was i supposed to ask smh

"hey any chance my talents are wrong?"

when i was progging there was like one public log

[balmy condor]

I don't go around talking to everyone about dropping exsang

just came up in convo with people during rwf

[ebon notch]

ill check in with you next tier

xoxo

[oak sky]

Does passassin have puzzle boz

Box

[balmy condor]

idk

you'll have to ask him

[ebon notch]

id be like 6th on boss dam if log was public

[oak sky]

Did he run it on raz

[balmy condor]

he did not

[oak sky]

Because venom rush/2nd shiv simmed pretty close for me last time i checked

And i dont have puzzle box

Could have something to do with that maybe

Idk

[carmine dawn]

bro sorry but how

dont you run a full key vault every week

[ebon notch]

agreon didnt you say 2nd shiv or smth was good for you

[oak sky]

Its venom rush

[ebon notch]

and it was like a 2k dps loss

[oak sky]

2nd shiv is an enabler

[oak sky]

It was 400 for me

[carmine dawn]

bro dont bring this up again agreon was in shambles

[oak sky]

Last time i simmed

[oak sky]

Yes

I dont run 8 algethars every week

[carmine dawn]

i need valor

blowing it rn

who can afford a puzzle box in this economy anyway

[oak sky]

Yeah man like

I have to upgrade shoulders or legs on reset basically

[carmine dawn]

tell me why heroic shoulders and mythic legs are the same ilvl

so cringe

[oak sky]

They arent

411 vs 415

[carmine dawn]

looks the same to me

[toxic burrow]

Man. I don't know whats going on, but I just feel weaker overall in dungeons this week for aoe. >_<

[viscid mantle]

Would you all say assassination is the best spec for Erranog on mythic?

[carmine dawn]

theyre all fine

i like playing assa on ST bosses tho

[viscid mantle]

Ah, do most people consider Err aoe since adds?

[balmy condor]

not really

most people consider eranog a heroic boss

[spark scaffold]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[spice spire]

???

[carmine dawn]

(Whispyr, not Jesus)

(im down with the J man)

[spice spire]

Whispyr'

s just a homie

and an all around fantastic lad that does amazing work. I don't worship him, I just simp for him SMDH

[jaunty lotus]

Eranog is the mythic loot piñata

[wind condor]

They really need to remove valor cap at this point

We have catalyst, valor cap needs to be here as well

[jaunty lotus]

Good news, Valor cap is already here?

[toxic burrow]

[lost horizon]

yeah down with whispyr!

jk i need him for if i ever have to play sin again ❤️

[balmy condor]

[lost horizon]

i could never hate you after you remembered me

i will start up stream again and spread misinformation as a show of appreciation

[ebon notch]

[teal bloom]

[grim tangle]

please focus on raid squawkk.

[carmine dawn]

my bad was just shitposting

[spice spire]

I’m gonna shit post in your house next

(Off topic)

[carmine dawn]

yeah nice then what

[toxic burrow]

"Alright, so remember rogues, we want to get all of our bleeds on the target, Deathmark, then use exsang." Sow the seeds of chaos.

[lost horizon]

you know you love me

[lost horizon]

no i'm play no-bleed build it's way better

[toxic burrow]

D:

[spice spire]

Then we rate t shirts that go hard

[carmine dawn]

hell yeah we would

[gusty mirage]

I don't recommend tagging people about something like this in a public forum

if you know he's in here, you can DM him

[ebon thorn]

usually public shaming and peer pressure helps towards making someone stop exploiting

[balmy condor]

Write a twitlonger or something then

Don’t bring your garbage to us

[ebon thorn]

my garbage?

[balmy condor]

I mean, it ain’t mine

[ebon thorn]

i dont think its my garbage that someones doing sonething against game rules...?

[balmy condor]

You’re the guy tagging him

[gusty mirage]

then report him to blizzard

don't tag him in here in an attempt to publicly shame him

[ebon thorn]

[gusty mirage]

that's just creating more work for us to sort through the bullshit

[ebon thorn]

ok :)

[balmy condor]

Thank you :)

[thorny pond]

more crappy AAs

why do PUGs suck there?

[balmy condor]

Big aoe mean brain off

Pad time

[thorny pond]

had a tank insist that we pull all the stuff before 4th boss but nobody used the bombs. either interrupted or took them out of the adds

[gusty mirage]

I interrupt them when they're not on me, what's your toxic trait?

[thorny pond]

leaving keys before last little bit if group pissed me off in first 5 minutes

[waxen pulsar]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[next edge]

Kinda big nerf to Kurog and Dathea tbh

Don't think Kurog needed it

[trim dirge]

surprised kurog got nerfed

[lament warren]

theyre just staging nerfs

this is for wr 100 to 500

and then they will nerf again for 500 to 1k

either that's the big nerf or the next one is

that opens the floodgates for every really end-tier ce guild to get ce

[next edge]

Usually

guilds around 1,6k-1,7k get CE, no?

[lament warren]

idk

lmfao

[next edge]

I mean

from Kurog to no kuro

there's almost 1k guilds in between

LOL

top 480 are 5/8 M

[sweet tiger]

Silly question, has the Assassination talent page on wowhead been updated since, what, tuesday? whenever they screwed with talents and reset them on me

[teal bloom]

yes it's updated for patch 10.05

[balmy condor]

not sure what the issue is with the wowhead talents

they work fine for me

[sweet tiger]

No, sorry, I mean my talents reset in-game on tuesday and I"m just now getting around to replacing my loadouts

and i just wanted to make sure the wowhead pages had gotten updated, because i couldn't find a date on them

I'm not real bright, so it's entirely possible i just missed it

[balmy condor]

oh

yeah

all guides have been updated

since the patch

we have deadlines for that kinda stuff :P

[sweet tiger]

lol i suppose you would. didn't occur to me that might be a thing

deadlines, i mean

[balmy condor]

yeah

the guides for a patch update actually go live like the night before

pro tip

sometimes during the maint on tuesday if it's fucky

can get some early reading in

[sweet tiger]

Ah. Talents are more complicated than I'm capable of understanding on my own now, so this is the first time I'm using a guide for the pasting.
It makes sense that you'd get them up before the patch, though, i guess this was a very silly question

[balmy condor]

I've seen much sillier don't worry

[sweet tiger]

i still don't understand how rogues work, tbh, but at least i do better dps on my rogue than on my dh

i'm just glad i don't have to figure out talents on my own

[balmy condor]

wowanalyzer is pretty good if you have logs

can help point out mistakes

[royal lantern]

a sub main wrote them

[sweet tiger]

noted. Only my monk has logs, atm, but maybe i'll do something with my rogue that gets logged eventually and i'll get myself straightened out

nobody logs timewalkers DX

[balmy condor]

yeah dungeon logs are uh

sketch

[sweet tiger]

additional silly question, there are three talent loadouts for assassination on wowhead. what am i looking for as a solo player whose primary goal is surviving asspulls in the open world?

[balmy condor]

erm....

[sweet tiger]

mostly a joke, but i do wonder which is best for soloing mobs in reasonable groups

[balmy condor]

honestly dtb m+ is fine

[sweet tiger]

about three at a time

[balmy condor]

would probably suggest that

but I would make some changes

give me a second I'll whip something up

[sweet tiger]

oh, that would be lovely

[keen raven]

Nelf gives garrote from stealth bonus I presume right?

tryna figure out if i go nelf or dark iron rn

[balmy condor]

https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/assassination/DAPFVFARURQKFFYhRQCQANVWoQRFAkQCQsUBA

[balmy condor]

if you get the stealth off of it, yeah

doesn't work on bosses cause you can't stealth

[keen raven]

ah really fuk

[balmy condor]

you need to use meld to drop combat

and then stealth

[keen raven]

sadge

Just finished raz so no longer ugly tauren boi

[sweet tiger]

Thanks, Whispyr

[balmy condor]

np

[sweet tiger]

Is there any value to Subterfuge as a talent? I know it used to be helpful to me, back in, you know, Legion, but I skipped BFA and Shadowlands and I have noticed that none of the builds seem to take it.

[royal lantern]

would be broken otherwhise, what do you excpect lol

[balmy condor]

it got replaced by improved garrote on the spec tree

[sweet tiger]

Ah, so Garrote did change

[balmy condor]

now it's basically some niche pvp talent for extra cheap shots

[sweet tiger]

I thought I was going crazy

[keen raven]

that was my thought process XD

would be sick for bosses/keys

[sweet tiger]

my rotation addon kept telling me to use it and i was confused because i wasn't in stealth! and then i found out it can be used out of stealth now.

[balmy condor]

oh

you're that old

[sweet tiger]

yes

[keen raven]

guess its dark iron or orc then

[balmy condor]

garrote in stealth got removed with prepatch for legion

it went rotational for assassination in legion

[sweet tiger]

The last time I played on this toon was Legion, but I cannot stress enough how awful I have always been at rogue.

[royal lantern]

or you just dont care about race cus it doesnt matter

[sweet tiger]

The only toon I've ever been useful on is monk. I'm hoping that eventually the rogue becomes useful, but i'd have to become unstupid first

[balmy condor]

a common sentiment

[sweet tiger]

Amplifying Poison says that Envenom "can consume 10 stacks of Amplifying Poison", max 20 stacks. Does that mean that it can only consume 10 stacks, no more and no less, and that AP will stack to 20, which gives a bit of leeway between Envenoms?

[balmy condor]

yes

[sweet tiger]

Just wanted to verify that I understood, thanks

[balmy condor]

np

[sweet tiger]

How many Lethal and Nonlethal poisons can I have? Or, where do I find that information?

[balmy condor]

1 of each, unless you play dragon tempered blades

then it's 2 of each

[sweet tiger]

Ah.
Last question for the moment, why does Envenom insist on two specific poisons, despite there not being any indication of needing Deadly or Wound poisons in the tooltip?

[balmy condor]

not entirely sure what you're referring to

[sweet tiger]

When I click Envenom without either Deadly or Wound poison, it gives me an error message saying "You do not have Deadly or Wound Poison equipped."

I can't figure out why

[balmy condor]

oh

probably an old warning

when we only had deadly or wound

[royal lantern]

probably because you CLICK envenom

[sweet tiger]

i told you i was terrible at this game, i don't know why you're surprised

lol

Should I be using Wound+Deadly and...Amplifying+Crippling poisons?

or is Instant/Numbing better

[balmy condor]

deadly/amp

never instant, never wound (in pve)

[winter moss]

sanguine? D:

[balmy condor]

no

[sweet tiger]

For my second lethal, though, it sounds (from that sentence) i should use wound?

[winter moss]

ok

[balmy condor]

deadly and amp are two lethals

[sweet tiger]

oh, i thought it was non letha

l

[balmy condor]

damage = lethal

[sweet tiger]

i see. That makes sense

I think I understand now

Is Poisoned Knife part of my combo-building rotation? I only see Mutilate and Shiv as my other two builders

[balmy condor]

i dont even have it on my bars

[sweet tiger]

I figured I was doing something wrong.

[sonic spindle]

I’ve been playing sin for years and I’ve never stopped feeling that way tbh

[sweet tiger]

So I should be waiting for energy for Mutilate, then? Rather than going for the single point from Knife?

[balmy condor]

yes

knife does negative dps

might as well pop a bandage and heal the mob

[topaz bluff]

I have knife on my bars to spam when the vault boss flies to the center of the room; other than that I never push it lol

its not on a hotkey and just poked away in an corner

[sweet tiger]

Thanks

[kind forge]

you need it to tag targets in open world

[balmy condor]

bone spike does that

much better

[sonic spindle]

I use knife for that world quest to knock berries out of trees

[raven vapor]

any chance I can get a quick log review on a partial mythic brood ST log? WoWAnalyzer isn't giving me what I need due to switching to adds and dropping dots on the boss during the phase change.

[topaz bluff]

finally 4pc after reset tomorrow lets goooooo

[sweet tiger]

Before, I had a talent that procced Ambush. What was that talent called? I can't seem to find it now, was it removed?

[topaz bluff]

blineside?

blindside*

[sweet tiger]

ah, yes

figures it's the one i didn't mouse over before

[timber basalt]

you can use knife to kill random explosives your ranged are too pepeg to do

[vestal wren]

whispyr helps even enemies in battle

such a nice guy

[knotty schooner]

Is it efficient to switch from outlaw in AoE to assassination in ST and raiding?
like if my gear is minmaxing outlaw stats

[knotty schooner]

Does stat weights matter more or the spec?

[vestal wren]

no

stat weights are irrelevant

if you want a general direction

critical strike you usually want the most

mastery and haste are good as 2nd stat

[knotty schooner]

Already have 4K crit

[vestal wren]

vers you usually avoid if possible

[knotty schooner]

Rest is dumped in verse

[vestal wren]

but for gear, just throw it in the sim

[knotty schooner]

Thats kinda my problem, I think I only have 700 in haste and 1.6k in mastery

[royal lantern]

just sim

and you can see the ST difference

[knotty schooner]

any ST builds for assassination that scales better with outlaw gear? or is it all the same

[grim jay]

Vers isnt that bad just because its worse. Someone in my guild plays outlaw and just recently started on his sin gear, being at 26% mastery with a lot of vers, but doesnt sim that much lower than me with mostly optimized gear

[knotty schooner]

im sitting at around 26-29% vers depending on buffs and phials

[grim jay]

Just sim it and dont be afraid just because its not the most desired setup. You could even do a gearcompare sim with your setup vs optimal pieces with the ilvl of your stuff to see the difference

[regal cloud]

Hey someone know if assa Mastery Dr start at 30% or higher?

[topaz bluff]

all stats start DRing at that point but its not really relevant

Im at 36 crit 43~mastery crit/mastery are still my prefered stat weights for example

[grim jay]

Stat weights 🤢

[regal cloud]

Just wanna get the less stat loose to minmax for pvp ^^

[grim jay]

Copy pvpers or look at #pvp

[topaz bluff]

pvp is different beast; just go verse/+

[regal cloud]

If there's a 2nd Dr on Mastery past 40 I'll just go hast for quicker global but idk where are the Dr's so

[regal cloud]

Past 40% vers meh

[regal cloud]

I ask here cuz pvp channel is about gameplay almost none does stat minmax ^^"

[topaz bluff]

iirc haste in general is good for pvp and usually the number 2 stat anyways over much else; might have changed over the past month though

cause aslong as you stacking verse gameplay is more critical in rogue comps usuall

usually

[balmy condor]

DR's

[grim jay]

There is no statminmax in pve either, except for taking what sims higher.

DR is bs

[regal cloud]

Aight

All in Mastery then

[grim jay]

Just look at whaz or some other people, they usually know their stuff

[topaz bluff]

haste is/was good in pvp for the tick rates opposed to instantly getting everything dispelled; or was more towards the start of the season

[regal cloud]

Already copied ^^

[topaz bluff]

usually setup is more key than stats even in pvp for that reason

[regal cloud]

Not on this season but yeah

Pvp related talk ig ^^

[topaz bluff]

If you dont have setups a lot of the meta classes will instant clear all your dots+cds with a single button press. That's why pvp (channel) is more focused on gameplay that stats more or less

[lament warren]

evoker caut so pog

[topaz bluff]

I just hope the PvP nerf we're likely to get doesn't spill into PvE

[royal lantern]

they litearlly allready did a pvp nerf

blizz is smart enough to put "against players" in front of minigame related stuff

play destiny, and you will know true pain of a game dev that doesnt want to seperate pve and minigame balance

[topaz bluff]

Some of those pvp changes tinkered over into pve for ferals :3

Will for sure get a few more changes than the shiv. RMP/RPP/RPS pretty much carrying the AWC right now; with a sprinkle of evoker healers in there.

[royal lantern]

i dont even know what a single of those names except rmp means

who plays PvP

and wtf is the AWC

[topaz bluff]

:p, pvp isn't my cup of tea either don't fault you there.

10.1 seems to highlight ret changes, but no word on the rework of Ex 😦

[grim jay]

They wont, haters pissed and then we get a halfassed rework thats worse

[royal lantern]

tbf, paladin class tree is somehow a bigger mess than the rogue tree

[topaz bluff]

my poor guardian alt feels the same way about his rework 😦

[vestal wren]

the early trees all seem to have problems with tree design

so for what its worth rogue got fucked by getting a tree early

[topaz bluff]

I thought they were more concerned with re-working pally damage as a whole rather than a big class tree re-focus

maybe I misunderstood

[grim jay]

I dont think its that bad tho. Some talents are trash, but we got good builds running

I dont hate exs either

It is what it is

[vestal wren]

i mean, personally i don't mind it much

[grim jay]

The only thing that annoys me is that for sin only one final capstone is worth on st

[vestal wren]

the rogue tree has at least one decent option for all 3

but the amount of choice is fairly low

[topaz bluff]

thats still better than druids imo lol

[vestal wren]

and it is from a objective standpoint a rly bad designed tree

[grim jay]

When is there REALLY ever much of a choice?

[royal lantern]

we litearlly waste half our class tree points to unlock seal fate, aka "you can actually play assa now"

[grim jay]

If you wanna be optimal you wont have much of a choice

[royal lantern]

find weakness gating shadowdance, and then balancing stealth talents arlund shadowdance when find weakness is really bad for sub and does actually nothing for assa

[vestal wren]

the problem is, you are forced to pick so much talents

[royal lantern]

^

[topaz bluff]

1 capstone for regrowth you can even use, hotw for 30% autoattack damage if you go raze build, and I guess NV is the weird option you can take, but if you go raze you cut your ST damage to crap so NV doesnt really do much anyways lol.

I at least get tea and ER on my rogue lol

[vestal wren]

when traversing down the tree

so you can't rly skip anything and have no choice

even if talents would end up in a "pick this" manner

[royal lantern]

left side sub tree is ussuless

[vestal wren]

you still would have situational choice or alternatives

[royal lantern]

left side assa is a mess

[topaz bluff]

sub still likes tea

[royal lantern]

spec tree, not class

[topaz bluff]

ahh; yeah thats crap; i think its used in pvp though?

[royal lantern]

way more stuff needs to be baseline

[grim jay]

Im a simple guy, as long as I have overall competitive builds I dont care for choice

[royal lantern]

like sorry, but shadowdance in the class tree is a bad idea cus it takes so much away from sub

[vestal wren]

i mean sure, but you have options to pick from on the sub tree

[royal lantern]

make 1dance charge baseline for sub and remove class dance

[vestal wren]

this is not what you have on the rogue tree

[royal lantern]

make seal fate baseline for assa and remove from tree

[vestal wren]

only outlaw plays it

[topaz bluff]

a lot of classes have this stuff though

[grim jay]

Thats kinda true, personally not a fan of that one aswell since it literally defines sub somewhat

[vestal wren]

basically the fun thing is

outlaw is the only spec that talents into shadow dance

[royal lantern]

yes

ik

cus find weakness lol

[vestal wren]

i also don't mind it on the rogue tree

[topaz bluff]

guardian has to PICK survival instinct (shield wall) AND Ironfur both (as an example of other classes)

in theory you can play bear without even having ironfur (but thats class tree things lol) O.o

Just listed that example as us not being the only ones who have to talent into "mandatory" things. That's just a weird design thing with some classes. Considering druid just got their re-work I doubt that design aspect will ever change this expac.

did they ever fix nightstalker?

[bold drum]

no still does nothing

[vestal wren]

not yet

[topaz bluff]

would that be a big or small buff to 2d sub at this point?

[drifting cloud]

they wont fix it because they like rogues current spot and dont see a point giving them 1.5% buff or whatever it was

[grim jay]

They already said there might be a nerf if they fix NS

[kind forge]

i dont mind a nerf - just fix NS

[topaz bluff]

or just delete it so some builds dont have to waste the 2 points with the pathing over there lol

[kind forge]

whole right side is

[wild storm]

Not home rn so I can't look, but is there a way we could still run DTB /IC and pick up SBS in m+ at least ?
I loved sbs a lot in shadowlands as sin rogue. It was such a fun playtime and a badass looking ability.

[grim jay]

What does it matter rn if you take it for pathing or take it bcs you need to bcs of the nerf

[topaz bluff]

its just silly to be wasting 2 talents that could be used for SOMETHING useful lol

[kind forge]

just the fact you are not putting 2 points in something that doesnt even work

[grim jay]

Pathing is something useful tho

[gusty mirage]

Yeah wouldn’t want rogue turning into arms warriors, shadow priests, or frost mage now would they

[grim jay]

Or UH DK

[gusty mirage]

I refuse to acknowledge uhdk out of anger

[grim jay]

BM aswell

[kind forge]

im glad for those arms guys tho

[grim jay]

Tho

[gusty mirage]

Especially if they sign up for azor’s patreon

[grim jay]

Anger about getting nerfed while UH gets buffed just for them to be further ahead than the impact of nerf + buff combined?

[topaz bluff]

yeah, at least something like -10 energy off feint, iron stomach or even shadow runner could at least have a use somewhere lol

[gusty mirage]

None of the reasons for rogue nerfs have any credibility anymore, and the reasons for not fixing NS also have lost all credibility

Esp when we’re watching warriors press ignore pain as a dps ability and shitting out damage

[grim jay]

My warriorguy is shitting out

But its not damage

[gusty mirage]

They literally reworked arms after buffing it

[grim jay]

[gusty mirage]

Arms woke up doing 8% more damage

[grim jay]

13

They said

[gusty mirage]

Meanwhile an NS fix is TOO strong

[topaz bluff]

the times I dont take imp feint and I need a defensive feels real bad lol

[gusty mirage]

Yeah imagine us pressing feint and it gives us cdr on an important dps ability

[grim jay]

@gusty mirage looks fine

[gusty mirage]

Yeah wouldn’t want rogue too strong

God forbid

[grim jay]

Variance on enh

[kind forge]

isnt it 50% dr on a 1 sec cd aswell ?

[gusty mirage]

Kinda, it’s just a fat absorb they get

[topaz bluff]

Maybe they'll un-nerf Ex 🙃

[gusty mirage]

Idr if it also has dr

[topaz bluff]

its just an absorb

[grim jay]

Count me in. Would love to see it and all the crying exs haters

[gusty mirage]

If they won’t fix NS because outlaw and sub would have to get nerfed from that ENORMOUS 1.8%(?) dps jump

Exsang ain’t coming back

[topaz bluff]

Old Ex wasnt as big of a pain imo. It was easy to learn/use. 3min cd Ex feels clunky as shit

[gusty mirage]

Maybe we see a buff to tiny toxic blade

Seems to be their game plan, buffing things we don’t use anyway

Look at that “buff” sub got in 10.0.5

To that talent you don’t take outside of pvp

[topaz bluff]

[gusty mirage]

[grim jay]

To make us use it since people like choices

[topaz bluff]

then they made it have no affect in PvP

[gusty mirage]

Oh yeah, huge choice between kb and dtb right now

Lmao

I love all these choices we have as rogues

[topaz bluff]

AP arrived DoA :3

[gusty mirage]

[topaz bluff]

at least I got to play with KB some haha. AP I havent even tried in M+ 😦

[gusty mirage]

idk I can’t wrap my head around the repeat nerfs, the specs that had choices got them heavily dumpstered

And then I see shadowpriest and arms warrior and frost mage

And I’m like okay?

Frost got what? 3 big buffs in a row?

[grim jay]

Its funny that they keep buffing frost instead of making it actually playable in a non-stationary situation without having it sim 50k higher

[gusty mirage]

Meanwhile we suffered from having a dev who cared about us having a strong baseline and top notch theorycrafters

Unlucky ig

[topaz bluff]

Fire seems "ok" in M+, now. If they get another big buff I think they might overtake frost there.

[gusty mirage]

I’m rerolling mage

What the fuck

[grim jay]

Fire needs a flamestrike/aoe rework, no numbers buff

[grim jay]

Have my arcane alt anyways

[royal lantern]

should buff all dmg on frost for 5% so that this doesnt happen tbh

[topaz bluff]

lmao

[grim jay]

Did someone say 105k sims?

Gotcha

[gusty mirage]

It’s okay some people around here will say it oversims

[royal lantern]

reddit told me frost is bad, you entilted rogue mains just always want to be op

[gusty mirage]

Terros is actually dogshit for frost mage and go look at the top performers at max percentile

[topaz bluff]

they still a ways behind frost, but I havent seen a firemage since expac lauch. Did a Nok with one and he really surprised me lol

[gusty mirage]

[grim jay]

Its just not applicable 100%, but you see them pop up often now

[gusty mirage]

Our arms warrior smokes my sims

And I have better gear than him

[balmy condor]

Arcane loses more in downtime than frost according to movement sims

[grim jay]

Our arms smokes something different

[balmy condor]

Just BTW

No one has a problem playing arcane

[gusty mirage]

Yeah a lot of them aren’t the smartest cookie in the pot

[topaz bluff]

our arms>fury re-rollers are now spamming AA for Pbox and complaining about that huehue

[grim jay]

And according to actual mage players it doesnt in most cases

[gusty mirage]

Actual mage players will tell you frost is a meme too

[balmy condor]

According to actual mage players they would also tell you mage isn’t good right now

[grim jay]

I actually asked bcs I thought the same

[grim jay]

True

[balmy condor]

I don’t believe mage players if they told me grass is green

[gaunt moat]

Slice and Dice removed from rogue when?
use 1 time and dead button
I don't see what's the point other than button bloat

[balmy condor]

They’re single handedly the biggest dumbfucks to ever walk this earth

[grim jay]

Well it aint right now

[topaz bluff]

warlocks/boomies?

[gusty mirage]

Just mage players cosplaying

[balmy condor]

They have a ton of attention because they’re prolific in their dumb-assery. Mages are quieter, stupid in silence

[grim jay]

What about DHs?

[balmy condor]

The people playing DH in 2023 aren’t actually bad

[gusty mirage]

Never forget fire mage in SL discovering (in their words) a “small optimization” of 3000 dps during nathria

[topaz bluff]

warlock SL APL for sims; forever in my brain

[balmy condor]

Fuck mages though

They’ll tell you their spec sucks

[crude sinew]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[balmy condor]

And then play it

[gaunt moat]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/can-we-get-rid-of-slice-and-dice/1278636
most insane comment in wow's history:

[gusty mirage]

I mean slide and dice is fine

Idk why people hate pressing it so much

[gaunt moat]

how is it fine

[gusty mirage]

How is it not fine?

[gaunt moat]

it's a pointless button that doesn't do anything cool

[gusty mirage]

It’s literally the freest dps in the game

[royal lantern]

how is it fine

answer this question first oxi

[gaunt moat]

pressing a button one time at the start of fight, is not "fine"

[grim jay]

Oh no, triggered

[royal lantern]

YES

[gusty mirage]

If you want to hard cast it drop cut to the chase and put the point somewhere else

[royal lantern]

dont bring up shit&ability when im arlund

[gusty mirage]

I’ve had this insane debate with tryan before

People complain that it’s a press once and forget it ability

[topaz bluff]

SnD is fine; you dont manage it much on bosses, but like M+ you can ahve some management with it

[gaunt moat]

I don't think you understand what i'ms aying

[grim jay]

@balmy condor stop him before someone ends up dead

[gusty mirage]

No I do

But it’s an insane thing to complain about

[balmy condor]

That’s what he said, yes

[gaunt moat]

no it's not.
having a button to press once, is not good design

[gusty mirage]

Again

Talent out of cut to the chase and manually refresh it

If you hate that it’s a set it once and forget it ability

[gaunt moat]

https://tenor.com/view/mugatu-crazy-pills-gif-13247253

[wild storm]

^

[topaz bluff]

well if you only press it once and the duration you never keep track of you'll drop it often in M+ and have to re-apply

[balmy condor]

I’m with oxi on this one

[gusty mirage]

Out of all the things rogues complain about, complaining about snd is so far down the list lmao

[wild storm]

^^^

[grim jay]

Design aside, I couldnt care less about something like SnD

[royal lantern]

its ok, you are also allowed to be wrong for once whisp

[balmy condor]

I press the button, it gives me damage

[wild storm]

I think s&d is fine. Please God don't make me have to press it multiple times again in a fight..

[balmy condor]

If it were passive, would that be better?

[gaunt moat]

Oxi
they gave us that talent, because they felt this ability should not be maintained. it should be baseline.
it's a "soft removal"
and at this point, there's no point to gimp yourself and not take the talent
this offers little choice and the use of SnD is boring and adds to button bloat.
button bloat = not good.
removing and making baseline = good

[gaunt moat]

yes, that's what i'm advocating

[grim jay]

I think they should make weaponpoisons more interactive. You only press the button once every 60min

[topaz bluff]

It feels good when I have to envenom to keep uptime in AoE, AND get a Pbomb proc during CT spam

[gusty mirage]

No, they gave us cut to the chase because assassination was fucking awful in 9.0 and they threw anything they could to make it good

[topaz bluff]

without SnD I'd never envenom for a Pbomb xD

[wild storm]

Button bloat = bad but why make it Baseline. That's such a poor design

[gusty mirage]

Snd wasn’t an issue for outlaw or sub in 9.0, but it was for assassination

[balmy condor]

Perfect, that’s achieved! You do your opener, and it’s a passive

[gaunt moat]

it's already baseline, just with a talent and 1 press of a button.
so cut the middleman

[gaunt moat]

bruh.

that's what i'm saying is bad

[shrewd night]

No way

Notter!

[gaunt moat]

hey 😄

[wild storm]

So remove the ability s&d and just give rogues the buff.

[balmy condor]

Okay, but you push your potion in your opener too right? That’s one button that you press once in a fight and then ignore, should we remove potions?

[wild storm]

With 100% uptime

[gaunt moat]

i come back and the insanes have taken over the asylum!

(joking <3)

[gusty mirage]

@royal lantern how much have you paid this person

[shrewd night]

wtf bunman is the CEO of the asylum

We just took over this mess

[wild storm]

If all buttons that were pressed once In a fight then forgotten about were removed, we might be complaining that the game is simple and boring

[gusty mirage]

I get into this with tryan once a month at least

[lethal forge]

guys how much haste % do u need with assa?

[gaunt moat]

potions are consumables, that's comparing oranges to apples.
plus they can be used at specific timing... and shared between all classes.
they are fun to use.
SnD is boring.

[balmy condor]

You press poisons once an hour, those should be baseline too, why do we need to press it

[gusty mirage]

More than 0%

[wild storm]

Thinking about it, I quiet enjoy s&d playstyle now

[gusty mirage]

Legit no minimum

[shrewd night]

I agree, make poisons auras.

[gaunt moat]

okay that's just a bad faith argument now

[topaz bluff]

If you advocate for removing SnD can we at least re-work pbomb interactions lol. It be kinda dumb for a puddle on mainly just bosses, might as well be a single target dot lol

[royal lantern]

dude, hes an oldschool rh guy lol

[gusty mirage]

Don’t avoid my question

[grim jay]

We have a poisonous aura here aswell

[shrewd night]

Oxi too fresh for notters history

[royal lantern]

3hugs and a coffe

[gaunt moat]

oxi doesn't know me 👀

[royal lantern]

[balmy condor]

No, because I’d much rather support poisons being passive than snd being passive

[gusty mirage]

I do like your pfp tho

[balmy condor]

Not that like

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

Any of this conversation matters

When we half an entire half of the class tree completely unusable for 2/3 specs

Feel like that’s a bit of a bigger issue

But pressing one button in my opener is a problem too sure

[shrewd night]

[royal lantern]

oxi is a zoomer confirmed?

outlaw main in disguise

[topaz bluff]

or spec tree too, both left sides are poo for sub/assassination 😦

[balmy condor]

Left side assa isn’t entirely poo, but yeah

[gaunt moat]

@gusty mirage i wrote an introduction yesterday 🙂
but hi!
I used to be the assassination moderator 5-6 years ago. most people have gone by now or are new.
But I like the new guides and FAQs, they are really great, and i used them myself to relearn the game 🙂

[wild storm]

Who's idea was it to not make tricks of the trade baseline?

[balmy condor]

The devs and it was a good decision

[gusty mirage]

Welcome back to the madhouse

[gaunt moat]

man.. it was a full time job.

[balmy condor]

Are we really gonna argue for tricks of the trade baseline when we just complained about button bloat

[gusty mirage]

(Put me out of my misery)

[balmy condor]

[shrewd night]

Whispyr, share with notter how much you sleep

[drifting cloud]

whispyr 4healing kurog on farm today?

[gusty mirage]

Considering I just woke up for work and he’s 3hrs behind me

[balmy condor]

About 3-4 hours a day every day for the last 7 months

:)

[topaz bluff]

is there a time to take AP+IC over DTB+IC generally curious? I haven't found it if so, enrage weeks maybe?

[gusty mirage]

Council

That’s about it

[topaz bluff]

ok I could see council style fights

[grim jay]

Magetower

[gusty mirage]

Ig you could make an argument on raging weeks if you desperately need a soothe

[shrewd night]

Enrage weeks is dumb too because its only good if every mob is enraged at the same time.

[gaunt moat]

I have no issue with tricks.
But SnD
It's not a cool button. you barely feel anything happen when you press it.
it's a relic buff from vanilla.
We keep getting new cools abilities, this means we don't need boring old ones.
It's okay to be modern.

[gusty mirage]

But evoker soothe is so much better and less of a loss for them

[balmy condor]

Sure, but at no point have you suggested we get a cool new ability, you’ve just stated that pressing it is dumb and it shouldn’t be there

[topaz bluff]

I did MT back in legion I have no idea what new MT is like lol

[balmy condor]

If you want to replace it with something cool, by all means

[gusty mirage]

Maybe if we get some buffs to AP it could be worth playing in m+

[gusty mirage]

Tightly tuned solo content, assa one is the hardest of the 3 rogue ones. Super rewarding if you do it though

[topaz bluff]

remove SnD all bleeds now tick 80% faster 😮

[kind forge]

just bake SnD into AP - now i fixed 2 conversations

[gusty mirage]

Like it’s pretty tightly tuned

[gusty mirage]

[grim jay]

Add some damage on cast and people will be like "OH YEAH GREAT SND, LEMME SMASH IT ALL DAY - FEELS GREAT"

[balmy condor]

I like playing around cttc in aoe and dungeons

If I have to press snd in my opener to make that happen, I’m okay with that

[topaz bluff]

100% for me on this lol

[gusty mirage]

Also you get a neat tmog of the tomb of sargeras set

And a book mount if you do all the scenarios

[shrewd night]

What if we give snd the alacrity treatment.

Finisher has 60% chance to refresh snd instead of 100

[gusty mirage]

What’s an alacrity?

[gaunt moat]

I don't know what new ability we need to get.
but something that would be very similar, just passive.
it's already 90% passive.

My design philosophy is that action bar should be reserved for things that are cool.

[topaz bluff]

it feels nice to play around in aoe/m+ keeping track of SnD timer to toss out envenoms when you would normally CT

[shrewd night]

[balmy condor]

Applying slice and dice now casts a 20cp envenom

[topaz bluff]

and get that sweet pbomb proc too

[shrewd night]

My design philosophy is that action bar should be reserved for things that are cool.
Time to remove Quake from my action bar

[gaunt moat]

if SnD did something else other than just "you attack faster". sure.
add some animation too.
make it also drop a totem that makes you attack twice and in AoE.

[balmy condor]

If the action bar should be reserved for things that are cool, i wish you luck in reworking every rogue spec from the ground up

[next edge]

I swear to god if this is not our last reclear week I'm losing my mental

[balmy condor]

Every single target generator rogue has is legit just “ambush, or ambush but worse”

We can start there

In terms of buttons that suck

[gusty mirage]

Poor lambda slowly descending into madness

[next edge]

They nerfed dathea after our talk yesterday

We cursed it

[gusty mirage]

Lmao enjoy a now harder boss thanks to those nerfs

[royal lantern]

what

[next edge]

Imagine bringing 4 trials to Sennarath which only we killed once

Full reprog wed

[gusty mirage]

Infuser hp nerfs actually make it harder

[next edge]

1 day of not fighting proper prog boss

[royal lantern]

spoder time tonight

[gusty mirage]

Need people to open their eyes and make sure the little dudes on the platforms die

[gaunt moat]

Just because it's not a simple matter, doesn't mean it has no merit.
A lot of specs have useless buttons, i agree.

But let's compare RtB to SnD
they are very similar in affect.
RtB - cool animation + change gamestyle = fun button
SnD - none of that, just maintain. sin never has to press more than once.

why does outlaw even have to maintain both SnD and RtB?

it's just button bloat.

[gusty mirage]

vs before where they’d die to passive cleave off big dude

[drifting light]

i mean, just bring more single target

We always had infuser guys survive with like 20% hp when the small ones died

[gusty mirage]

[topaz bluff]

SnD+CTTC does change up your rotation and rewards management in heavy aoe/dungeon content

[gusty mirage]

Y’all wanna borrow our arcane mage?

Idk what that man does

[subtle tundra]

what boss

[drifting light]

we have 2 arcanes /:

[subtle tundra]

you talking about

[gusty mirage]

But that big add would just get deleted from 30%

[subtle tundra]

whats an infuser

[gaunt moat]

not in a meaningfull way. so i disagree on that.

[gusty mirage]

Dathea varas

[drifting cloud]

noob

[subtle tundra]

lol

i have like 4 pulls on dathea

[topaz bluff]

its def meaningful

[shrewd night]

dw, theres probably a macro that lets you ignore adds on dathea

[gusty mirage]

I wish I had 0

[gaunt moat]

not having to press the button is not "meaningfull".
like i said, it's "soft removal"

[subtle tundra]

💀

hopefully

[topaz bluff]

the rotational changes are meaningful; in the sense that if you drop it during aoe thats still a noticeable loss on your main target. Getting a PBomb proc from proper management also "feels" nice. Otherwise we'd just spam FoK+CT 90% of the time lol

[balmy condor]

I would personally disagree. RTB is in my opinion the most dogshit, vile rng filled ability they have ever added to the game, on any spec. It being any amount of rotationally altering is a disgrace to class design as a whole and should never have survived past legion alpha to begin with.

Slice and dice might be boring but I least I don’t want to stab myself with a kitchen knife when I press it

[gaunt moat]

ok, you're mixing two things

effectiveness and "fun".

RtB implementation could be better.
but it's fun to use (i'm talking from casual perspective)

[balmy condor]

And most people would agree

I personally have so much fun with RTB that it makes me change specs

I can’t handle all the fun I have pressing it

[gaunt moat]

It's hard to optimize, yes.

SnD is easy to optimize.
so easy, that you press it once and can remove from action bar

so what i'm saying is.. it's already a passive.
just make it a passive.

[balmy condor]

Rtb isn’t even hard to optimize

It’s just a piece of shit

That’s all it is

[royal lantern]

you press rtb

if wa saya good, its good

if wa says bad, you press again when its off cd

thats how 99% play around rtb lol

[gaunt moat]

that's players ingenuity to help optimize.

[balmy condor]

The most rtb has ever done is allow outlaw rogues to argue endlessly over which 0.01% better reroll logic is better

When in a weeks time they’re both wrong

[steel ridge]

😄

thats kinda the truth

[gaunt moat]

i'm starting to regret mentioning RtB in comparison
you guys gets sidetracked easily 😂

[unreal kayak]

Should never had replaced bandits guile with rtb

[balmy condor]

GIVE THIS MAN A RAISE

HOLY

WHAT A GOOD OPINION

[spice spire]

Nah

[royal lantern]

i never saw whisp say that to somone ever

[spice spire]

Rng fun

[royal lantern]

wtf

[balmy condor]

IT EXACTLY AGREES WITH MINE AND THEREFORE IS PERFECT IN EVERY WAY

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

While on the topic of keeping bandits guile

[kind forge]

i miss bandits guile so much

[balmy condor]

I think we should just revert the entire spec back to 6.0

[drifting cloud]

isnt that offtopic by definition

[kind forge]

that was a based take

[subtle tundra]

just delete outlaw man

its honestly healthier for the game

[balmy condor]

Outlaw was a good spec in 6.0

[steel ridge]

whispyr decides what is topic and what not.

deal with it

[royal lantern]

outlaw is a good spec

all the DH fotm players go away

yeha, its a win/win

[balmy condor]

I’ll be the first to say it

I loved outlaw, before legion

[earnest remnant]

Combat was pog

[steel ridge]

outlaw is in a sorry state right now feeling wise, imo

its just terrible to play

[balmy condor]

It has been for 7 fucking years now

[steel ridge]

i liked in in SL

[gaunt moat]

Alright, let's put this another way.
imagine this scenario:

You're rogue dev.
Your boss comes into your your office and says: "Today we must remove a button from assassination (or general rogue) rotation"

Which button would you remove

[balmy condor]

Distract

Checkmate

[flint tusk]

haha

[topaz bluff]

pickpocket

[gaunt moat]

it's not rotational ability

[flint tusk]

perfect answer but will miss my swirly ball

[gaunt moat]

i said rotation!

[steel ridge]

assassination has the best rotation flow of all 3 specs rn, hands down

[topaz bluff]

I use distract some still to stop pats in slow pugs :3

[royal lantern]

envenom

[gaunt moat]

WHY DO I BOTHER.

[royal lantern]

make assa a pure dot spec, no more dmg abilitys

only dots

[topaz bluff]

Ex

[steel ridge]

wdym, blindside is glorious

[earnest remnant]

Welcome back to RH notter

[gaunt moat]

@topaz bluff that's already getting removed

[royal lantern]

but yeha, serious answer, exsang ofc rn

[gaunt moat]

Thank you! ❤️

[royal lantern]

outside of that? i gues i personaly would say SbS?

[balmy condor]

The serious answer is of course you remove slice and dice. But not because it should be removed. You gave the ultimatum of something has to be removed, knowing full well that removing slice and dice is the least intrusive and disruptive button to remove

[topaz bluff]

When is Ex getting removed?

[gaunt moat]

yes, it would be the first on the chopping block.

[balmy condor]

Exsanguinate is a very close second thought

[flint tusk]

i'd love to know that also

clearly got some inside info or making stuff up

[spice spire]

2/29

[unreal kayak]

Detection since it was a rotation filler in bfa for echoingj void

[misty holly]

Thistle Tea is gone!

[royal lantern]

imo its like exsang(but we allreadx know that something is happening there)->snd->sbs

[balmy condor]

Xontic is 2/2 on banger statements so far

Holy

What a man

[gaunt moat]

what's sbs?

[balmy condor]

Bone spike

[royal lantern]

bonspike

idk, its not bad

but feels forced in for no reason

[gaunt moat]

i actually like bone spike

[flint tusk]

bonespike is pretty good imo

[royal lantern]

like, personaly opinion and stuff

[topaz bluff]

can we remove sepsis if thats the case? 😮

[balmy condor]

The thing that’s supposed to do aoe/cleave but doesn’t compete in aoe/cleave but it’s way too good to not take in single target

[flint tusk]

ranged dps when downtime

[shrewd night]

To make this statement when you were the one trying to herd cats six years ago. YOU KNEW THIS ALREADY.

[flint tusk]

WTB shiv spreads bleeds with artirial precision!

[balmy condor]

With the direction they’re taking on sepsis giving random extra stealth procs? Yes, get rid of it

[royal lantern]

i dont say its bad, but it just feels REALLY forced into the assa toolkit rn(oh, and necromancy bone spears dont fit rogue blizzard, make it a throwing knive)

[misty holly]

SBS should be in the Echoing Reprimand spot, and the legendary effect in the next spot down.

[steel ridge]

thats something cool and ridiculously op

[gaunt moat]

I have short memory.

[misty holly]

Then it would be ok for cleave

[balmy condor]

Good opinion

[royal lantern]

can i be your kitten

[flint tusk]

i mean can make it balanced against IC but actually playable. they have got to find a way to avoid multidoting as they themselves have said is bad game design

[balmy condor]

So does this channel, that’s how we’re able to move onto new conversations so quickly

[misty holly]

I am a SBS stan, though. I want it to always be somewhere we can take it.

Where it is now gets tough with many builds.

[balmy condor]

Wait a minute that’s not your fursona

[royal lantern]

i never showed it

[spice spire]

[gaunt moat]

alright i'm gonna go do groceries 🐰

[balmy condor]

I just imagine it’s not a cat

[royal lantern]

i litearlly only have this fox as pfp cus its cute

[steel ridge]

well, the tedious application of dots is the problem, which IC solves kinda

[balmy condor]

I mean I know that much

I just don’t see you being a cat fursona

Are you a cat

[royal lantern]

no

(we got sidetracked again btw)

[balmy condor]

Okay so then i was right fuck you

[spice spire]

Demonic whispyr hours

[flint tusk]

yeh but it's CD is too big for it to be useful in cleave

that's what i'm thinking with cleave of shiv. i mean even if they toned down the bleeds so 50% effective or something there are way to make it work. just not in isolation obviously

they've spun a ball of cheese gotta unpick it now

[shrewd night]

[topaz bluff]

AP needs something the gives a little more meat to single target imo

[balmy condor]

I know with god as my witness you did not take 2 full minutes to find an emote of any animal other than a cat

You’re getting boomer reaction times shiennar

[normal olive]

thats some dedication

[balmy condor]

You’re getting weak

Brittle

Fragile in your age

[spice spire]

Getting?

[hollow river]

[flint tusk]

i mean not sure i agree with this.

AP for cleave
DTB/KB for ST
IC for aoe.

least that is the way my brain sees it

[balmy condor]

Have getted* sorry

[spice spire]

You right

[grim jay]

While nearly every other spec has 2 final capstones on most builds

[shrewd night]

Am working

[misty holly]

AP probably isn't even BAD for single target. It just has to compete with SBS right now which is strong.

[balmy condor]

Ain’t nobody in here ever heard of the perfect past continuous

[royal lantern]

the number doesnt matter tbh

[balmy condor]

No attention payers in here

[normal olive]

bro what

what does that even mean

[drifting cloud]

you germans and your grammatical rules

[topaz bluff]

idk; AP+IC sims lower than my DtB+IC (with no sbs) in a dslice

[misty holly]

I mean, imagine SBS didn't exist. The talent was gone. We would be taking AP and DTB for single target.

[balmy condor]

Shiennar will have been slowly losing his reaction time

[topaz bluff]

its losing pretty big either in aoe or st somewhere without sbs

[grim jay]

It feels awkward tho. Considering final talents at the end of the tree should be worthwhile

[misty holly]

It's the second best choice. It just doesnt beat SBS.

[flint tusk]

i mean that's not really a reason to have 2 for ST for sin. that's a token reason

i still stand by the exsang being a capstone after rework and AP swapping places with where exsang is now

[grim jay]

It is designwise. You work your way down the tree to place your points elsewhere while others dont. Final talents should be strong enough to take

[topaz bluff]

could be guardian druid and have tons a talents down at the capstone just to look at and not enough points to combo them well xD

[grim jay]

Guardian is ass anyways

[topaz bluff]

guardian feels ass because of the talents rip

[flint tusk]

it's only ass because of bugs currently

[topaz bluff]

raze=nightstalker good luck getting that one fixed

[flint tusk]

i honestly don't even know how they bloody broke it

[topaz bluff]

guardian aoe will be absurd if they do and sucks for UF without it

it doesnt have the spec aura

[flint tusk]

but they can't even fix dragons DCing you to razi so i doubt they'll manage to fix nightstalker

[topaz bluff]

so it doesnt do the 40% increased damage and apply from class/talents like it should...because its not a guardian ability

[royal lantern]

nobody follows them anyway, dont worry lol

[topaz bluff]

so anything that increase damage like killer instinct etc have no affect on that ability. so it baseline does such low damage it's never going to be worth it

[balmy condor]

Genetiv ins Wasser, denn es ist Dativ

[royal lantern]

klappe du sterber

[grim jay]

Brudi das kannst du so nicht sagen, wir halten uns an den Regeln

[gusty mirage]

[jade abyss]

Haha

[gusty mirage]

I leave to talk 40k with zeph and come back to Berlin?

[flint tusk]

Damn. All your spelling is terrible.

learn english jeez

[royal lantern]

wanna talk about SnD? its almost a new month

[balmy condor]

Das heist eigentlich “Streber” und nicht “sterber”
sterber bist nämlich du im raid

[gusty mirage]

Nah notter stole your thunder

[jade abyss]

Uff

[grim jay]

Come to cologne or munich, fuck berlin

[gusty mirage]

See ya in March brother

[royal lantern]

bin am handy, ich schiebe die schuld auf Autokorrektur

[gusty mirage]

I’d check out Frankfurt

[topaz bluff]

I prefer the stat weight conversations

[balmy condor]

Autokorrektur kennt dich gut

[royal lantern]

und die tatsache das ich mit halb gefrorenen finger am tippen bin, weil kack Werkstatt so -40000grad hat

[gusty mirage]

Man flying through Germany is such a nicer experience than any other European country I’ve been stuck in

People are nice

The airports are clean

I got free cell data when I had t-mobile

[little light]

go on

[flint tusk]

why not exsang as a main filler ability xD

[topaz bluff]

come to NA. We have Atlanta and Dallas >.>

[royal lantern]

just dont ask them for opinions about imigrants and climate change

[gusty mirage]

Fuck Paris and Charles degaulle

[balmy condor]

That’s only cause you ever have been to Berlin, Frankfurt, or Munich

[gusty mirage]

Just Frankfurt

[royal lantern]

stuttgart aswell

[balmy condor]

Every other airport is just as much a shitshow

Stuttgarts a shithole brother

[gusty mirage]

Ngl I got sketched out in airport security

[grim jay]

Die klauen uns die Jobs!

[gusty mirage]

Idk who hired one of my cousins but they need to reassess

[balmy condor]

Stuttgart 21 turning into Stuttgart 45

[topaz bluff]

Are they as bad as our Dallas/Atlanta? 😮

[balmy condor]

They’re never finishing that shit

[royal lantern]

yes

🙂

[grim jay]

How about we make it Stuttgart 69?

[balmy condor]

Baustelle Deutschland

[gusty mirage]

These are all words

[balmy condor]

Nah, Dallas and Atlanta are a circle of hell deeper

[gusty mirage]

Atlanta airport is the devil

No one can convince me otherwise

[royal lantern]

its not america, thats allready a +4 by default

[topaz bluff]

I truly thought I was going to die there going for a smoke, Atlanta.

[gusty mirage]

Washington Dulles is also awful

[gray crest]

Why you talking shit about my airport

[gusty mirage]

Fuck you fed

[gray crest]

We've been under construction since the dawn of time

[gusty mirage]

Roujin want my spot for broodkeeper and raz?

[gray crest]

Lmao

[gusty mirage]

I’m a maple story gamer now

No time for wow

[drifting cloud]

rasz NERFED

[balmy condor]

The tldr is there was a giant project to redo the main train station connected to the airport, and they wanted it done by 2019, but it was over budget, and then delayed to 2025, and the budget readjusted, and then over budget again

[gusty mirage]

How very American of them

[topaz bluff]

Ahh so they are American

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-we-one-gif-18212100

[balmy condor]

It’s basically a giga headache that has put the main train station of an Atlanta/Detroit/Miami level of city into a big shitshow since 2007

[marble hemlock]

Sounds like something that happens everytime there's a big project anywhere on the planet

[gusty mirage]

You’re welcome planet

Murica

[marble hemlock]

Takes 5 years longer and 3x the money than planned

[royal lantern]

berlin Flughafen?