assassination

[peak bobcat]

And only had a week to do it

[subtle tundra]

Not every patch smh

[ashen rover]

I didn't really play last expansion

[peak bobcat]

Every patch except the one where rogue was pepeg

[ashen rover]

I actually want to off myself

Been farming cos on repeat

[keen spruce]

Season 1 SL was sad times

[subtle tundra]

People would do 100+ runs in a week

[keen spruce]

until doomblade got buffed

[ashen rover]

Yesterday I go in a 13 with my friend's alt and he drops the ring

It was his highest ilvl

[peak bobcat]

And 47% aura buff

[ashen rover]

[keen spruce]

yeah the enormo buff helped

[ashen rover]

Geez

[keen spruce]

i think we were alrady progging sludgefist

by the time assa way playable

and we were not a good guild lol

[subtle tundra]

I played pre 905 assa on denny

[keen spruce]

i'm sorry

I hated outlaw so much i just made myself 21st man the last half of the tier lol

[teal bloom]

I got AOTC in 9.0, not having CTTC was

[robust dune]

Excuse me wich is better Bronzed Grip Wrappings or Fang Adornments?

[bitter compass]

Is Kingsbane + IC still viable for M+ or or is it completely dead?

[rain mortar]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[wispy summit]

Jesus I miss Zoldyck

[pseudo hamlet]

DTB > KB in most of the scenarios

[limber lion]

all*

[brazen rampart]

we lost kingsbane bros

[winter raft]

rip bozo

[fossil frost]

is 54 percent at 5 minutes 10 seconds good for assa rogue mage tower?

[keen spruce]

if you throw away your puzzle box and play poison you can have it back

where my pink

give it back

[drifting cloud]

uhm, enrage is like 6:30 so I guess that would be a no

[fossil frost]

yea i guess so too

how can i do more daamge

damage

[drifting cloud]

tbh the fight does end with the big guy on around 20%

[wispy summit]

What you mean by that?

[fossil frost]

@drifting cloud i watched this video and around like 4 min mark hes 2 of the bosses are down to 20 percent already i think idk how to optimize more

[keen spruce]

this is the "don't tell whispyr, throw away your puzzle box" build

depending on your puzzle box ilvl it's like -500 to -1000 off the bleed build with box

but it's way more cozy

cuz you get to remove 2 buttons that no one likes

[pure moth]

what are you using instead of puzzle box ?

[zenith gale]

Hey folks! Any talent build recommendations for pvp Blindside + Serrated + Ensanguinate?

[ebon notch]

Check #pvp

[zenith gale]

Cool, should I ask there? Or can I find something pinned?

Thanks Fotmrouge 🙂

[ebon notch]

Just ask in the generally and someone should help you out

Otherwise tag @hollow river and see if he responds

[wispy summit]

Is Sepsis, just like absolute dogshite?

[keen spruce]

yes

[keen spruce]

kurog trinket and guzzler

[wispy summit]

But how's the aoe in like m+ without CT?

[hollow river]

Whichever you prefer, there is a build linked in the pins and I can suggest what you can swap for Exsang in the chat in #pvp

[keen spruce]

oh this is not for m+

pure ST

[wispy summit]

ooohh

[keen spruce]

I don't really do keys in assas

but i'd imagine you'd rock boon and whetstone

[wispy summit]

So back to DTB + IC m+

[keen spruce]

i think? the build are all updated in the guides and faq

[wispy summit]

current tech is insane in m+ tbf

Whetstone er also crazy

[keen spruce]

i just like that one for raid cuz you don't gotta worry about exang and puzzle

tech feels kinda meh in keys

but i'm using a heroic one

i'd rather have a boon

[wispy summit]

I also hate exang :^)

[burnt star]

What is guzzler. Not the first time hearing that. But i dont recon any trinket with that name

[keen spruce]

oh manic grieftorch

from broodkeeper

[velvet ridge]

I don't understand why its called that

[keen spruce]

liquid was calling it the guzzler during race to world first and it stuck

[burnt star]

Ya i dont.quite understand either

[lusty surge]

Got some questions about sepsis for anyone who knows

Does the stealth ability interact with MA/iron wire

And does the nature damage count as a poison now

I could've sworn none of those interactions worked in SL but idk about now

[storm onyx]

Haven’t tested yet but it used to grant IronWire in SL

[lusty surge]

Oh cool ty

[storm onyx]

#pvp would have more info on what/how it interacts with all talents I would guess, exta 2 stealth abilities is not something they would pass on without testing

[solid mica]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[outer cairn]

Because she’s manic and grieving Eranog

[lusty surge]

Thanks

I'm trying to play around with a sepsis carnage build but it just all looks really terrible

Like one point short of dtb

[brazen nimbus]

Do the Sims take gems / effect into consideration in top gear Sims? Sims want me to go full gren haste/mast and primary/ haste gems

[keen spruce]

what is your haste currently?

[storm onyx]

It means you have reached the bleed/mastery breakpoint; it happens if you are using Puzzlebox and Exsan depending on gear

[royal lantern]

you forgot the 3rd Part:its also a torch

[royal lantern]

stop saying stuff like that

there is no "mastery breakpoint"

[proven talon]

what the fuck is m+ sin right now

[hollow river]

pretty positive it doesn't

[proven talon]

is dtb better than the new talent in keys

[hollow river]

but iirc it interacts with imp garr

[royal lantern]

???

you play IC in keys togheter with DtB, wdym

[winged veldt]

He asking if DTB better than aoe shiv

[hollow river]

check the FAQ Xana, it has a couple m+ builds and recommendations

[proven talon]

the build is updated

but like is it even good

[winged veldt]

Short answer is play dtb and IC

[proven talon]

how much it ST going to suffer from not having kingsbane now

[lusty surge]

That's wack

[proven talon]

yeah thats what im thinking

[storm onyx]

ST is better now...

[royal lantern]

dmg is the same

[proven talon]

better?

i see

[royal lantern]

we do like, 100dps more in st

wuhu

[proven talon]

WOAH 100?!@#!!?

[royal lantern]

"better"

[keen spruce]

effectively unchanged

[winged veldt]

^

[proven talon]

zats grazy

[royal lantern]

and the new talent is Shit

you dont touch it

[winged veldt]

^ also true lol

[royal lantern]

like, pure, unfilitered shit

[proven talon]

just bring back echoing blades or

am i coping

[royal lantern]

you are coping

eb was bad

[proven talon]

what else is there though

for aoe or a viable m+ talent

[lusty surge]

Why are they so afraid of sepsis actually interacting with other abilities

I don't get it lol

[royal lantern]

make CT do more dmg against multiple Targets

give good aoe dot talents

not "lmao spam fan"

[keen spruce]

up poison bomb to 12% per cp and make it do damage

[royal lantern]

like, yeha, i kinda get why people liked Echoing blades

you liked doing dmg in aoe

but the thing itself was shit tbh

like, spamming FoK regardless of cp and everything is far far from good and meaningfull gameplay

i dont play rogue to stand still and press 1 ability for top aoe dps

then i would play outlaw, not rogue

[keen spruce]

add a passive to IC that will always apply rupture and garrote to 1 nearby target

that doesn't have a bleed on it

and keep the active hte same

[royal lantern]

i mean, yeha, i also want rep shadows mate

[keen spruce]

gib AoE kidney

[storm onyx]

Not sure how we didn't get a double rupture talent, being the bleed/dot spec tbf

[royal lantern]

some PvP "players" suddenly felt a chill running down their spine (all 3 of them)

[keen spruce]

give bone spike a choice node to have 1 charge but hit 3 targets

[royal lantern]

cus sub needed some help for cleave

[keen spruce]

hell replace sepsis with it

[royal lantern]

its less "omg unfair that sub has it" its more "feels kinda bad that sub has it, cus it would be cool for assa aswell"

+the fact that sub rupture does more dmg

20%more bleed dmg 4set on assa btw

[keen spruce]

also when tf are we gonna get a real talent in place of twist the knife

sleeper most dog shit talent on the tree

[royal lantern]

when exsang gets removed or reworked

[keen spruce]

imagine being twist the knife having to compete with amp poison

[storm onyx]

that talent looks like immortal... lol

[royal lantern]

i mean, it doesnt compete

no choice node

you just dont take it in general

[keen spruce]

it might as well be a choice node the way the tree is laid out

[teal ember]

should i use both puzzle and torch in st fights and if so whats the best order for it thanks ❤️

[keen spruce]

TTK would turn these green

[royal lantern]

when they sim higher, yes

[keen spruce]

if they sim higher, puzzle box right before deathmark

[teal ember]

i have a 395 box currently and a 411 torch

[keen spruce]

and then start rippin grieftorch on CD

what are your other trinket options?

[royal lantern]

box first, after you used ER

torch on cd after DM

never use them DURING DM

[teal ember]

i have also a windstone

415

[keen spruce]

whetstone most likely gonna be better than the puzzle

[teal ember]

got it

[keen spruce]

and you should check if the poison build sims higher until you have a bigger puzzle

[hollow river]

[keen spruce]

the more people i can convert away from puzzle exang the better

[royal lantern]

how are the other 2 doing?

[teal ember]

thank you dude

[royal lantern]

opener is in the FaQ, it has a mark for when you use the channel trinkets

but its always puzzlebox first

[keen spruce]

I'd bet money that whetstone + poison build sims higher for you than shitty puzzle + exang

[teal ember]

yeah just tried it now

[teal ember]

gona try it aswell since i am practicin

[royal lantern]

but yeha, its like

if you have torch and box, they will probably be BiS

a mythic council icon can outperform a heroic torch, but not a mythic one iirc

but tbf, get a mythic torch in the first place

[teal ember]

just get a mythic torch4head

[royal lantern]

i cant, stuck in ice spoder jail

maybe we get her next tuesday

[keen spruce]

spoody jail you say

2 of our last 3 pulls on thursday

[royal lantern]

its absolutely the same for me lol

like

always 3-4 people dead before first platform

[next edge]

We got best try 9%, we are at 40ish pulls

[royal lantern]

and we have 50pulls

[next edge]

Sunday should 100% die

no matter what

[royal lantern]

i think the same, next raid should be a kill

[next edge]

we also got our warrgoing arms

so spider adds will be deadge instant

[royal lantern]

i hope i can convince our warrior to do that aswell

[next edge]

fuckers get Colossus + Avatar for ever yadd

and they do insane ST

[keen spruce]

"don't worry about boss damage, just get up the stairs" suddenly everyone makes it up the stairs 70 pulls in

WTF WERE YOU DOIN BEFORE

THAT CALL OUT

[royal lantern]

arms does 10k more then fury now

[next edge]

Yep

[keen spruce]

SARMs warrior

sim almost done

for poison no box vs bleed + 402 box

[next edge]

probably 4% behind

bleed with box

or 2-3%

[keen spruce]

doubt

1% difference

<1% difference if i just regem

and I get to drop exang and box

600 dps and I have to click 2 stupid ass buttons

https://tenor.com/view/hell-naw-nah-gif-7332331

so my point is

that 395 box is probably not better

cuz my 402 box is barely better

raid ST sustained = poison build with triple zoldyks

current gear = bleed build

.75% gain to run rubix cube and bleed

and that's a 7 minute sim so you get 3 box uses 2 lined up with DM

[gusty mirage]

Link the sim

[brazen nimbus]

Like 13%

[brazen nimbus]

Okay, ty

[keen spruce]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6FNk9RAt537VGLZmT7sabj

I'm not smart enough to do custom sims

@gusty mirage

[gusty mirage]

damn puzzlebox do really be out here ruining lives

smh blizzard

[storm onyx]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fPdTaH2FA5WrRqDPsnRsQc

i really am not enjoying it either

[marble hemlock]

I don't understand, what's the problem with it?

It's like 1 lost gcd

[storm onyx]

Mainly the feeling of inconvinience of it lingering untill getting used to i guess

[gusty mirage]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/w42uESfWyQtcY8eE9HPvfY

[keen spruce]

what is this witchcraft

this is why i leave my puzzle box in the bank

[storm onyx]

Wrong order of cast in sim on yours

[gusty mirage]

puzzlebox has taken over our lives

https://tenor.com/view/rubiks-cube-feliks-zemdegs-amazing-gif-10516295

this is all of us now

[keen spruce]

imma be honest

1600 dps might not be enough

to get me to switch

[storm onyx]

It should be instant after 500 casts .sigh

[gusty mirage]

imma be honest, that's the best take I've heard all expac

[gusty mirage]

no reason to play something you hate

in the grand scheme of things 1600 dps isn't making or breaking a boss fight

[keen spruce]

if a 421 shows up in my vault

i'm gonna kermit

I prefer payphone rogue gameplay

[marble hemlock]

I mean it's a 402 box compared to 408 technique. At same Ilvl the difference would be even bigger

[keen spruce]

@gusty mirage how do you adjust the cast sequence?

like not a full tutorial just the cliff notes

[next edge]

Press a button every 3 mins

I can't handle it

leave me from this prision

then I have to press exsang every 3 minutes too

[gusty mirage]

like for trinkets?

[next edge]

blizzard ruining my experience

[gusty mirage]

cause sims always use slot1 first

[keen spruce]

whatever you did to make 600 turn into 1800 lol

[marble hemlock]

It's not even remotely as annoying as font of power ever was

[keen spruce]

ohhh

[gusty mirage]

so if you lock in grieftorch into slot1

it'll force that first

and then box after

[keen spruce]

so it wasn't any manual rotation changes in the opener or some riff raff

[gusty mirage]

not a 20s pull timer for fire mage enjoyer?

[keen spruce]

it's like the exact same as font

[gusty mirage]

or was it 24s

[keen spruce]

you stand there and channel

[marble hemlock]

Just the overall idea of 2 trinkets overlapping for a few seconds is... Not fun

[keen spruce]

instead of pushing buttons

and it's not a grieftorch

[marble hemlock]

Yeah and you lose a single GCD. Wow.

Grief is a lot worse

[keen spruce]

grief torch has fire

[marble hemlock]

Cuz you can't recast if you have to move

[keen spruce]

very pretty

[marble hemlock]

Pretty = fun?

[gusty mirage]

the best part of font

imagine font with storming

LOL

[royal lantern]

i remember 24 so all RL did 25sec

[gusty mirage]

spirit bomb channel

tornado interrupts it

unlucky

[keen spruce]

yes and getting to use it more cuz your friends are dying

[gusty mirage]

legit the worst of timelines

so much wasted time

[keen spruce]

I'm coming off of 60s pull timers for armor pots in classic

mage pulls from EP are a distant memory

[gusty mirage]

thank god I never got past level 17 in classic

I would actually lose my mind

[storm onyx]

haha

[keen spruce]

it was fun, then i realized you don't even use rupture

then it was not fun

[marble hemlock]

50sec pull timer for hunters in dragon soul

[gusty mirage]

thank you for reinforcing my decision to quit wow 1 week into cata

[royal lantern]

what was that again

[marble hemlock]

Switching through 6 different pets

[gusty mirage]

terrific

I want our vial buffs now

where they port us out to pick pocket a helpful buff

before every single pull

[marble hemlock]

Cause they had a buff that lasted a minute that didn't share CD and every buff had their duration

[royal lantern]

oh god

[marble hemlock]

So you cast buff, swap out pet which was 10 second cast, buff again, swap pet etc

And you'd start fight with 10 seconds of 40% AP, then 10 more seconds with 30 etc

[gusty mirage]

classic example of blizzard having 0 foresight

[marble hemlock]

tbf wasnt nearly as annoying as playing pvp as a hunter

having your pet die and having to rez it was 10second cast. but dismissing it forever meant you could summon a different pet instantly instead

[gusty mirage]

seli I rerolled my key to a +21 RLP 2 times in a row last night

AMA

[marble hemlock]

so you did cc chains

of your ape ccing someone for 4sec

then you dismissed it forever

summoned another one

[gusty mirage]

apparently you can reroll into the same key

[marble hemlock]

cc for 2sec

[gusty mirage]

as I found out

[marble hemlock]

and repeat

[next edge]

Grieftorch for raid boosting

[marble hemlock]

and then after each match

[next edge]

is so fkng crazy

[marble hemlock]

youd need to get more pets

[next edge]

did 6M for me yesterday

[marble hemlock]

so you had to tame 3-6pets after every game

that was fun

[gusty mirage]

I had to explain to our DH trial

that grieftorch skews his idea that "sims say one thing but actual performance is another"

[royal lantern]

just get some guildmates into arena, wdym

[magic vine]

skipping exsang/box seems insane to me tbqh

[gusty mirage]

because I got into it with him

• another guildie

that outlaw does not do more ST damage than assassination

so they pulled "1 day" stats from WCL on tuesday

before the tuesday logs were locked in

[marble hemlock]

sounds like a bug

[gusty mirage]

and they kept going for like 20 minutes

and I just stayed quiet

[marble hemlock]

that shouldnt be possible and ive never seen it happen

[gusty mirage]

the entire time

and they kept asking for my opinion

[next edge]

I mean

[gusty mirage]

and I was like "I mean that's cool"

[next edge]

I got told to play outlaw because in sims is so good

but then you check "dmg to boss"

[gusty mirage]

he was insistent on "OUTLAW BEING INSANE"

[next edge]

its 2nd worst class in game

[gusty mirage]

"ALL CONTENT"

I was like mmkay

[next edge]

I mean according to some guildies

[gusty mirage]

pls mr. dh

explain my class to me

[next edge]

Rogue is the most broken class in the game

ahead of anyone else

So I can't speak mutch

[gusty mirage]

yeah so I've heard

"LOOK HOW INSANE OUTLAW IS POST NERF"

[marble hemlock]

thatd be enhance

[bitter compass]

For Exang, you should strive to have every possible bleed up before using it, correct? Not just Rupture and Garrote?

[gusty mirage]

"that's not how wcl stats works"

"bro just look at the logs"

"k"

[marble hemlock]

nah, just those 2

you dont wanna waste time in your opener applying any others, they barely do damage and arent getting duplicated by DM

[bitter compass]

gotcha ty

[marble hemlock]

the value of exsang isnt exsang itself, its all the other CDs it interacts with

[gusty mirage]

do I waste valor upgrading my whetstone @marble hemlock

[marble hemlock]

no

[shrewd night]

Yes

Do it for me

[marble hemlock]

youll get torch on tuesday

dont listen to shien

[shrewd night]

Lets become whetstone brothers

[gusty mirage]

puzzlebox is kinda ass in keys man

[marble hemlock]

he can whet his stone by himself

[royal lantern]

i hate this part so much

you explain something ablut rogue and have 18people tell you "uh, idk stuff about rogue" and then they tell you what each spec can do good 2min later

[shrewd night]

Brothers before KB enjoyers

[gusty mirage]

like its super good for bosses

[next edge]

I did 12 CoS to avoid upgrading my 392 ring

[gusty mirage]

but my god

[next edge]

because for some reason

blizzard thinks

vcalor cap is fun

🙂

[next edge]

I'm wetstone when i see oxi face

[gusty mirage]

I just sucked it up and dumped all my valor into my signet

so I was running around with 402 boots

for like ever

[marble hemlock]

i still have 2 sparks to craft items with and i cba

[shrewd night]

Do it oxi

[gusty mirage]

I made cloak

[marble hemlock]

i upgraded cloak to 415

so its like

[gusty mirage]

and looted 421 belt and then 421 pants

[marble hemlock]

best upgrade would be engi bracers rn

7ilvl

[gusty mirage]

just loot 421 bracers from the vault idk

[marble hemlock]

and every other spark craft would be 3ilvl

424 you mean

[gusty mirage]

no

😦

[next edge]

I did 5 crafts

[bitter compass]

For M+, are we just skipping Bone Spike?

[gusty mirage]

my gear low key cracked

[next edge]

because they are giga cheap

[gusty mirage]

for boss fights in m+ ya

[bitter compass]

Figured, ty!

[gusty mirage]

I want 421 tier gloves from box

then my only upgrades are brood dagger + grieftorch

[next edge]

https://i.gyazo.com/a3652b16926f371bf0d3c9c8551e8495.png

thats me

[gusty mirage]

and I beat the game

[next edge]

with a 408 box for raid

[gusty mirage]

dude I hope we extend

I just want this tier over with

kill brood

then 200-300 pulls on raz

and I'm done

FINISH LINE

[next edge]

i might craft

engi bracers

or 418 dagger

[royal lantern]

the good thing about my slow prog this tier

when i reach dathea/raz, they are nerfed

[gusty mirage]

I wish we could catalyze crafted gear

:/

[royal lantern]

[gusty mirage]

I'd make 418 gloves and catalyze those

[next edge]

What about

remvoe valor fkng cap

[marble hemlock]

no

[gusty mirage]

no cuz then I'd be forced to run keys

"forced to"

[shrewd night]

[gusty mirage]

like I'd force myself

[gusty mirage]

zenith gloves dropped and went to our evoker

[marble hemlock]

and im not even joking. valor is incredibly powerful

[next edge]

ok make it wider

[gusty mirage]

[next edge]

750 a week is just ridicolous

[marble hemlock]

getting better gear than mythic raid on like half the items

[shrewd night]

Chilling

[next edge]

Edge of Night enjoyer on Timewalkings

i missed my babys

[gusty mirage]

@marble hemlock I decided to peep the logs of my old guild

that said "he wasn't even that good" when I left

took them 97 pulls on kurog

they're about to have a blast on dathea

[keen spruce]

I have smacked a target dummy

and have decided at 1600 dps is not enough

[royal lantern]

why would you say something like that

[gusty mirage]

I believe the co-GM's exact words were

[royal lantern]

except when you are petty assholes

[keen spruce]

maybe blizzard will force me to get new muscle memory with a big puzzle in vault

[gusty mirage]

"just like every tier we clear out the shitters and replace them with new shitters and get CE"

[marble hemlock]

why arent you upgrading it with valor?

[royal lantern]

lovely

[marble hemlock]

its like, by far the best item to upgrade

[gusty mirage]

their replacement rogue

[royal lantern]

i would just whisper everyone that joins them about it tbh

fight assholes by beeing an asshole

[next edge]

puzzle?

[gusty mirage]

I've had a few people in here message me about them

[keen spruce]

cuz I didn't get one until last week and didn't wanna use it

and i had to upgrade a court ring

and some other shit

[royal lantern]

like, what the fuck is that attidude "yeha, we cut our "worst" players each tier and get new ones, repeat endlessly"

what are you, top 3 going for wfr?

[gusty mirage]

the best part about it

is the guy who said it

[royal lantern]

ofc he sucks

[gusty mirage]

was possibly the worst tank I've ever played with

[royal lantern]

dude

my best raidguild was during BoD in bfa

the council fight with the curse dispell

the gm was a frostmage that did tank dmg

[keen spruce]

this is the mindset of basically every mid mythic / barely CE guild

[royal lantern]

and kicked a holy priest for "not doing the dispell mechanic"

its a CURSE

HE WAS A MAGE

THE GUY WAS A PRIEST HE KICKED

[gusty mirage]

LOL

[royal lantern]

and thats why im happy with my current guild

slow progress

but who cares

people are nice, i enjoy the game

fuck world ranks

nobody cares about that shit anyway

[gusty mirage]

yeah finding people you can just vibe with outside of raid

is super important imo

[keen spruce]

^

[next edge]

I just spend all day on guild discord

I never felt as I am right now

[royal lantern]

like, what the fuck does it even do

[next edge]

we are slower prog

but it is what it is

I just want to do all mythic content and enjoy the game

[keen spruce]

although I would have liked to have killed sennarth 2 weeks ago

[bitter compass]

In the ST opener, are we supposed to wait until Exang finished, re-apply bleeds then DM? Or DM literally 1 GCD after Exang?

[royal lantern]

OMG IM WR 300 INSTEAD OF 1K!!!!!!!!!!!

wow, and? you still are just a nobody in the ocean of raiders lol

[gusty mirage]

[royal lantern]

@gusty mirage btw, the same priest then got back in 1 day later, and did the ultimate chad move

i got internet problems halfway trought a raidday in jaina when we where close to a kill

and the RL benched me the next day, and it was almost a kill

the priest just "forgot" to use healing cd's

until i was back in

[gusty mirage]

I hate it when that happens

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/mujikcboro-seriymujik-gif-24361533

[gusty mirage]

[next edge]

And if you ever want to get into better guild (progress) if yo udo good as player who cares guild prog

[royal lantern]

its logs

like, i probs could get into higher wr with my logs rn tbh

[keen spruce]

my first mythic trial was on Jaina. I thought they were gonna trial me on team 2 through a reclear

[royal lantern]

but really cba anymore

[gusty mirage]

yea then you risk joining a cesspool

[royal lantern]

SL broke my desire to push world ranks

[keen spruce]

had the dungeon journal open, murdered the whole raid with avalanche first pull

[royal lantern]

just vibing and get CE somewhere in the tier

idc if it is world rank 400, 800 or 1600

[gusty mirage]

yeah I think just means we're old now man

[next edge]

me too

[gusty mirage]

everyone was super excited when we killed dathea cause we jumped a ton of WR

and I'm like "wahoo?"

[next edge]

im around 80ish on every myth boss

and it smy first tier ever as DPS

i have always healed

[royal lantern]

and 2 day raiding is great man

i can play other games

[next edge]

yeah I will never do more than that

ever again

[bitter compass]

@gusty mirage In the ST opener, are we supposed to wait until Exang finished, re-apply bleeds then DM? Or DM literally 1 GCD after Exang?

[gusty mirage]

I miss 2 day raiding

[next edge]

Thats why i dont care

getting later CE

2 day is just so chill

[royal lantern]

you DM and re-apply the bleeds when they run out

[gusty mirage]

you want to deathmark right after exsang

and then reapply during DM

[royal lantern]

and yes, you exsang->dm

[marble hemlock]

There are pretty pictures in the FAQ that explain all of that

[gusty mirage]

after the exsang'd bleeds fall off

[next edge]

Well

I think i learned to enjoy the game

i took it as a competition before

for me is now "my time of enjoyment"

[gusty mirage]

so you'd exsang -> dm -> wait for them to fall off completely -> then reapply

which should happen within the DM window

at least garrote will

[bitter compass]

I know it shows DM right after Exang, I just wasnt sure, Ty though!

ty ty everyone!

[next edge]

you wont believe

how many times

first days of exsang

I forgot to reapply garrot because exsang

[gusty mirage]

you won't believe

[next edge]

i was like "yeah all fine time to reapply"

[gusty mirage]

how many times

I clipped an exsanged bleed

and screamed fuck

[royal lantern]

ah yes, "first days"

i STILL always fuck up the 3min exsang

like

i set up a ER rupture and vanish garrote

and then just DM

and forgot exsang

every single time

[gusty mirage]

LOL

[next edge]

I forgot puzzle

KEKL

[gusty mirage]

I just exsang my DM at that point and hope we wipe

[royal lantern]

nah, i just wait until DM is over and then do a solo exsang and cry

[gusty mirage]

that's the other side of the coin flip

[uncut echo]

Solosangers

[next edge]

Wed on sennarath

[uncut echo]

Based

[next edge]

i was like

3 MIN TIME TO PUT ALL TOGETHER

[gusty mirage]

then I lie to myself

and justify it

[next edge]

ER Rupture vanish garrot exsnag DM

the ni see my puzzle off CD

[gusty mirage]

"it's because I'll for sure remember it next time"

[next edge]

[gusty mirage]

and then it happens again

and I'm like kek

idk how I do damage half the time tbh

I actually make so many mistakes

and no one notices

[royal lantern]

cus everyone does those

[gusty mirage]

exsang deathmark?

forget to apply atrophic and realize it's actually useless utility because no one notices it?

[next edge]

Atrophic

is a meme

tbh

[royal lantern]

it gives a raidspot

[gusty mirage]

dead ass forgot to apply any non-lethal

and no one noticed

at all

[keen spruce]

okay fine... it's not that bad

[royal lantern]

cus the RL has a spreadsheet with raid utility

and the rogue means he can set a mark

aka raidspot

[gusty mirage]

thanks blizzard max

[royal lantern]

[keen spruce]

except that I have to remember to vanish garrote before exang at 6 minutes

[next edge]

TRUE

[keen spruce]

now i gotta go regem everything

[next edge]

RL is like

"immunities and rait utility check, rogue spot"

[royal lantern]

its the worst raid utility in the game togheter with the evoker buff

[next edge]

but bro

our utility

CC control

movement

and immunity

[grim tangle]

time spiral is insane raid utility

[next edge]

Evoker buff

is rly good

wdym

[gusty mirage]

yeah

[royal lantern]

you forgot SHROUD and TRICKS

[gusty mirage]

shame our evoker forgets to cast in 90% of the time

[royal lantern]

not the mobility reset

the less cd

[gusty mirage]

thank god one of our healers swapped to pres evoker

so now we have it every pull

I can't imagine dathea without it tbh

[royal lantern]

ofc they did

[gusty mirage]

they made the mistake of enjoying disc priest

[royal lantern]

litearlly no reason to play any healer that is not druid or evoker rn lol

[gusty mirage]

[royal lantern]

like

[magic vine]

atrophic is just one of those little things that reduces the "how much gear do you need on tanks/healers to clear" checks. its not like the sole key factor, but definitely adds up. or it can help gives leeway on a fight overall.

like yea, its not some big thing like evokers or locks or shit, but i think people would shit a brick if they gave rogues something that directly impactful

[royal lantern]

those 2 just do everything all other healers do much better

[gusty mirage]

I would agree

if it was actually a flat DR

but most of the damage in the raid is environmental

and atrophic doesn't affect any of it

[magic vine]

yea true

[gusty mirage]

good idea

poorly executed

[thorny pond]

Just be a Chad and not run it

Fuck it

[next edge]

I think ahtropic will see changes tbh

[royal lantern]

that sums up many blizz changes

[gusty mirage]

how is that being a chad

legit no one would fucking notice

lol

[thorny pond]

Oh

[magic vine]

is there a list of raid stuff that numbing effects?

[thorny pond]

Have you not pugged with me

They check my poisons every run

[gusty mirage]

no you don't love me anymore

[royal lantern]

they should give each rogue spec a unique raid utility imo

maybe something like outlaw having group cd reduction with restless blades? would not be to strong imo

[thorny pond]

Never stopped bb

[gusty mirage]

they should just give all rogues restless crew

instead of this half assed "raid utility poison" bullshit

[thorny pond]

My god was I pumped for that

[gusty mirage]

everyone was worried that assassination would be "TOO STRONG" with atrophic

how we feeling now friends?

[royal lantern]

im sure my vulpera racial blocks more dmg then atrophic poison

[slim hamlet]

yea sin needs nerf 🙂

[gusty mirage]

that was a legit concern for a lot of people

[thorny pond]

Could you imagine trolling some warlocks with tyrant CD getting fucked by bad rolls

[slim hamlet]

make atrophic 1.5%

[gusty mirage]

"forced to play assassination for DR poison"

[magic vine]

i was thinking that they should swap ap with ttb, and turn ttb into something similar to the warrior's skullsplitter

[slim hamlet]

oh yea wasnt that just when shiv was increasing it

or some shit

[gusty mirage]

well when that was happening

we were also the only ones to have it

don't worry guys

[royal lantern]

you mean perpetualpal with "restless crew would just be like a weaker windfury"?

[slim hamlet]

oh

Wait

[gusty mirage]

sub retained their shroud movement speed buff talent

LMAO

[slim hamlet]

Was sin the only one who had atrophic?

[gusty mirage]

"utility"

yeppers

[slim hamlet]

I actually think I remember it now u said it

but it changed pretty quickly no?

[magic vine]

shroud movement speed is not only bad, its locked behind maybe the only worse talent in the tree

[gusty mirage]

sin had atrophic, outlaw had restless crew, and sub still has theirs

[slim hamlet]

theirs what?

[gusty mirage]

their shroud movement speed buff

that was their spec utility

lol

[slim hamlet]

xdddddd

[royal lantern]

ye, at the start it was

assa had athropic

sub had(and still has) a ultra ussules movmenspeed buff during shroud

outlaw had restless crew

outlaws cried that they will be FORCED to play assa

[gusty mirage]

you probably forgot about it

because its fucking awful

[thorny pond]

If you don’t love bitching about how much utility a rogue has then not elaborating then you are not American

[slim hamlet]

man restless crew would be so op

[gusty mirage]

don't forget the INSANE damage

so I've heard

[slim hamlet]

even if it was like 0.1sec of a single cd

[thorny pond]

Let’s go to a max stream and hear again how we aren’t melee because we are unkillable

[royal lantern]

it litearlly never worked and was removed before that cus of how broken it allready was in theory lol

[gusty mirage]

I mean no more OP than WFT or PI or blessing of whateverfuckingseasonitson

[slim hamlet]

thats actually giga brain

[gusty mirage]

go look how much dps WFT gives

its fucking absurd

[slim hamlet]

no ofc but wft is also just dumpest shit

PI only insane because there randomly IS A CLASS THAT GETS 11% INCREASED DMG???

[thorny pond]

WFT should just take the added damage and apply it to shaman

Fuck them and watch them get nerfed

[gusty mirage]

they still wouldn't run it in keys

[slim hamlet]

yea i know

[thorny pond]

“Least I got WFT”

[slim hamlet]

it is ran in keys

[gusty mirage]

if I had $5 for every enhancement shaman

[slim hamlet]

at least good players run it in keys

[gusty mirage]

who refuses to run it in keys "because mah damage"

when they have a prot warrior and 1 other melee

[slim hamlet]

:))))

[gusty mirage]

I'd be a rich fucking man

"BUT I LOSE 4K DPS"

like dog

[slim hamlet]

99% of groups is prot warrior, rogue, enhance and some other shit

[gusty mirage]

I get 5k dps from it

[slim hamlet]

wft bangs

[gusty mirage]

I'm a net gain by myself

[royal lantern]

"me losing 1,4%dmg is worth more than 2 people gaining 5% "

[gusty mirage]

LOL

[thorny pond]

“Even the healer is melee” broadly gestures at the monk or cat

[slim hamlet]

Yea but I see why civilians dont wanna go wft

That shit sucks to press every single time u move 2.5 meters

[thorny pond]

My favorite WFT moment is when he dies in raid and my dps goes to shit

[next edge]

skill isue

[slim hamlet]

but if u arent doing it in a good comp in like 21+ u trolling

[gusty mirage]

unlucky, don't play a class that brings any utility then

[slim hamlet]

5Head

[gusty mirage]

also

[thorny pond]

Ankh!
“On CD”
Of course it is

[gusty mirage]

for some reason

shaman

just don't kick anymore

literally the best kick in the game

and they don't use it

????????

I got pelted with 3 bat spits in a row

and I look at the interrupt meter

[thorny pond]

We have the Kleenex of kicks, literally called “kick”

[slim hamlet]

I have not met a single pug enhance that uses their DOUBLE AOE Stun???

[gusty mirage]

and the shaman just never bothered

not once

[slim hamlet]

Imagine being lucky enough to get double aoe stun on 45 sec and u dont use it

wtf is that

[vestal wren]

does dh still get ressources for using kick?

[next edge]

ye

[gusty mirage]

if they talent into it

[vestal wren]

[next edge]

i think they do no?

[gusty mirage]

idk

[slim hamlet]

is talent i believe too

like dk

[gusty mirage]

mfers be dropping cage in keys for 1% damage

you tell me

lol

[slim hamlet]

but apparently u dont take it

[gusty mirage]

yeah I think DH TCers realized that the 8 year olds that play DH don't know what Disrupt looks like

so

[slim hamlet]

🙂

DH is actually not that easy mode anymore

But the community is wack still

[gusty mirage]

yeah they gave their rotation to devastation evokers

[slim hamlet]

Yup

[vestal wren]

some ppl did say

[next edge]

Devastation is hard

wdym

[slim hamlet]

It's like the second a good player u know rerolls DH they insta begin fel rushing into holes

Its instinct

a way of living

[gusty mirage]

my RL leveled his DH

I watched him vengeful retreat

over 3 clones on melandrus

and felrush into the boss

[vestal wren]

dh has finally a decent rotation/talents with DF

[gusty mirage]

during the aoe pulse

LOL

and die

[slim hamlet]

Yea rotation looks interesting

But their mobility just gives them the instinct to not look at their screen

[gusty mirage]

he's finally accepted that playing melee isn't exactly easy

[slim hamlet]

and just press it

[vestal wren]

it is fiunny to me

*funny

[thorny pond]

3 expansions of accumulating borrowed power does that to a spec

[next edge]

the DH of my guild

[vestal wren]

how dh talents and rotation are not that far off rogue

[next edge]

Used vengeful retreat

second 1 of placing a keystone

and got yeeted away of it

I couldnt stop laughing

[gusty mirage]

3 expansions of not accumulating shit does that to a class

[vestal wren]

meh, the borrowed power discussion is fairly irrelevant

[gusty mirage]

[slim hamlet]

Tried popping meta with VR

[thorny pond]

It’s a meme

[vestal wren]

dh actually had not that much from xpacs

[gusty mirage]

never forget that hidden blades

[thorny pond]

But what do they have that is new

[gusty mirage]

was a capstone talent choice for assassination

[vestal wren]

the tree had quite a lot of new things

[gusty mirage]

for 2 expansions

[thorny pond]

The hunt

[next edge]

hunt is fkng cool

[gusty mirage]

shocked that didn't come back

[next edge]

but doesnt fit DH lorewise

[slim hamlet]

I mean its important, many other classes had LOTS of old abilities to take into talents, DH didnt have nearly as much to bring back

[next edge]

kek

[gusty mirage]

what a great ability hidden blades was

[thorny pond]

Demon kill with glaive

[solid mica]

Thats actually true wtf

[slim hamlet]

Only reason I CBA trying havoc is because Fodder to the flame

cba

[thorny pond]

Hidden blades, no damage

[royal lantern]

nooooooooooooo, you lazy MELEE BRAINS just hit the boss all day and never do mechanics xdddd "proceeds to drop a aoe in melee range, never does mechanics cus 1 hunter does them for all ranged, they just stand still and dps the boss for 6min"

[vestal wren]

dh was designed to be simple, to appeal to new players

[gusty mirage]

"here's your capstone assassination rogues: poison bomb, crimson tempest, hidden blades"

and you're like what

why is hidden blades here

[vestal wren]

also they had the big "illidan fantasy" to them

[gusty mirage]

"lol legion legendary"

[slim hamlet]

yea

[vestal wren]

i feel like this is missing with evoker

[slim hamlet]

I feel like fury is prob easiest rotational spec now

Execute-rampage-onslaught

[thorny pond]

Evoker can literally fly

[royal lantern]

BM

[slim hamlet]

and u never run out of rage

[vestal wren]

evoker is literally "you can play a dragon, but you look ugly asf"

[royal lantern]

always BM

[thorny pond]

And empowered spells

[next edge]

Evoker is the easiest

[royal lantern]

bm is litearlly 0 thought

use killcommand on cd

[dark token]

wdym

[royal lantern]

keep barbedshot up

the end

[gusty mirage]

woah woah woah

[dark token]

evoker human form

[slim hamlet]

I honestly think fury rotation is easier

[dark token]

is HOT AF

[royal lantern]

thats BM

[next edge]

BM has more stuff than usually had though

[slim hamlet]

Harder to play simply because melee

[solid mica]

Fuel my hatred more

[next edge]

not easy anymore

tbh

[gusty mirage]

did you not hear azor's thesis on BM hunter on max's stream?

[slim hamlet]

Yea

[vestal wren]

is the regular human form with some extras you can add

[slim hamlet]

Fury def easier than BM imo rotationwise

[dark token]

ye and its hot af

[thorny pond]

Had a hunter try arguing with me that BM isn’t easiest spec. I said Sin is but BM is still easy enough for children

[vestal wren]

i talk about the dragon form tho

[next edge]

I dont agree

Sin si the easiest

like yeah DTB is fairly easy though

thing is that I dont think there's a single complex class anymore

all of them are easy

[gusty mirage]

never forget guys

[thorny pond]

P much

[royal lantern]

we are the only spec in the game that can actually kill our major dmg cd

[next edge]

but being good at them, thats a different world

[solid mica]

LOL fucking ONE-HUNDRED

[next edge]

And stay for 3 sec looking at boss

[gusty mirage]

someone looked at that

[thorny pond]

Don’t take exsang
Problem solved

[next edge]

doing white AA dmg

[gusty mirage]

and decided it should be a capstone

[vestal wren]

it still looks offputting to me when you got the entire power range squad in your raid

[gusty mirage]

they even used the same icon as abilities that did damage

(echoing blades)

[neon kindle]

Tf is this

[keen spruce]

that shit was so fun in legion tho

[royal lantern]

?

[gusty mirage]

this was the third choice at max talent level choices

that no one asked for

and no one gave us a reason for existing

[royal lantern]

1 of our capstone talents for the last 6 years lol

[gusty mirage]

besides it was a legion legendary

[keen spruce]

world pvp

[gusty mirage]

that no one played

[neon kindle]

No i remember its presence in legion. U sayin its back?

[gusty mirage]

no

its gone

it died

forever

[neon kindle]

Oh thank god

[keen spruce]

with master assasin and hidden blades

[gusty mirage]

hopefully never to come back

and if it comes back I'm rerolling feral druid

SOMEONE SCREENSHOT THIS

[keen spruce]

it lives in spirit

as dagger inthe dark

[neon kindle]

It not comin back

[next edge]

Do you guys remember Kingsbane? Such a nice spell it as right

[neon kindle]

🤢

[gusty mirage]

yeah it was cool for 2 months

everyone wave bye bye to it

[slim hamlet]

Man I love KB

[gusty mirage]

[slim hamlet]

Favourite CD in the game

[gusty mirage]

ty @royal lantern

the gromnak pfp actually makes it better

[neon kindle]

My favorite cooldown is feint. All my homies love feint

[slim hamlet]

No

Feint sucks

[neon kindle]

[slim hamlet]

Its op but sucks

[gusty mirage]

feint's actually insanely good

[slim hamlet]

on gcd and uses energy

smh

[gusty mirage]

imagine it not on the GCD

[slim hamlet]

Yea its not good its OP

[vestal wren]

our evokers all have diffrent colors

and they run around in their dragon form

[gusty mirage]

I should play mage

and advocate for another buff

frost looks like its struggling guys

smh

[slim hamlet]

Joining u

Was between warrior and mage for alt

[gusty mirage]

no no

I want to play the hero class

[royal lantern]

@vestal wren and whats the problem there...?