Just play sub and do 160k with 2 button gameplay lul
#assassination
boreal cloud
nocturne herald
So like the Deathmark thing slightly confuses me vs Vendetta's usage. Do you like 100% need to recast a new Rupture+Garrote as soon as you can right after Deathmark for it to duplicate, or is it just doing basically double that stuff during the time it's applied
strange python
No
dark token
Just play sub and do 160k with 2 button gameplay lul
Ye I shit on all outlaws with 1/10th the effort on council
strange python
Uh, no to which?
Reapplying. It's automatic.
nocturne herald
Oh shit okay. The wording made me think I needed to apply a fresh thing
red drum
So the opener says no Exsang, so do we use it when deathmark falls or no?
can someone smarter than me explain?
flint tusk
Where are you seeing it say no exsang on opener?
nocturne herald
You might've seen the one with no Exsang build
tall atlas
!log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/q1NJp9gXTHzZydn7/ only terros
warm urchin
https://gyazo.com/3695ea8aa6fc5b234556857066db7aa5 if i wanted to say fuck utility for damage would this work?
for m+
devout remnant
Ye I shit on all outlaws with 1/10th the effort on council
do u use m+ build on that?
on can u send me the sub build for council
dark token
do u use m+ build on that?
M+ build but modified
I drop gloomblade, drop weaponmaster
Cause ur never using em 4t
Get the shadow blades reduction talent and shadow focus instead
Much better value
spice surge
Cause ur never using em 4t
Not reading the guides or FAQ smh my head
astral pasture
where does exsang fit in the opener?
dark token
thorn fjord
where does exsang fit in the opener?
New tech is during gcd
But before it would usually be after ER during pull
cyan wharf
I just had a guildie post his Sin sim, and complain he's simming low. Man's simmed the AOE build on a ST boss 
like my guy
warm urchin
I noticed that single target sims don't account for using CT in single target
cyan wharf
Gz
indigo pollen
gray hazel
!neck
prisma monolithBOT
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.
gray hazel
Is it best to put the pri stat gem in anything else aside from lariat? or does it not matter when it comes to the proc?
drifting cloud
doesnt matter
gray hazel
Awesome, ty!
ive seen some peeps have the pri stat gem in other spots so i wasnt sure if i was missing something
strange python
You ever do your full opener and realize you forgot to DM?
limpid quest
anyone know what best missive for neck? crit and mast or haste and mastery
gray hazel
Crit mas
limpid quest
ty
distant mesa
is the DTB bleed build feel really energy starved to people?
gray hazel
You ever do your full opener and realize you forgot to DM?
all the time, mainly being GCD locked since i am used to vendetta being off the GCD
dawn kelp
do u have 2 steps every time for m raz?
distant mesa
granted I use the Tea maybe way to agressive
cyan wharf
You ever do your full opener and realize you forgot to DM?
So very often
vale shore
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
barren hare
anyone else getting slapped in mage tower
true rapids
I hit near the enrage today got one of them down
but died to the valkyr line cus of perspective shenanigans
storm forum
are there any new rewards for it? or if i did them all in legion am i good?
obtuse vale
What is the art rotation. Specifically for the primal fight? Haven't played with yet
misty holly
I'm curious, any idea why Windscar Whetstone is considered one of the top single target trinkets for Outlaw (and also quite good for sub) but pretty meh on assassination?
It's not like the mastery on it is a premium stat for Outlaw, and the click effect is the exact same for everyone.
storm forum
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz
misty holly
does assassination actually SCALE better with stat based trinkets better than the other specs do or something, which makes flat damage trinkets better for them?
storm forum
it's probably our damage profile. deathmark/exsange is a lot of burst damage so we get a lot of value from having increased stats during their windows.
outlaw, from my understanding, has a much flatter profile, and due to their CDR they cant always line up trinkets with their CDs too
misty holly
Some things just don't make sense looking at the trinket chart the more I look Looking at bloodmallet Ruby Whelp put in single target fireball mode is significantly better than whetstone for sin but that's the opposite for outlaw (though they are very close there).
Those are both just flat damage trinkets why wouldnt it be the same for everyone.
true rapids
anyone else getting slapped in mage tower
3k dmg still not enough to beat it idk what else to try
misty holly
3k dmg still not enough to beat it idk what else to try
Does Ravaged Seed Pod still work?
That's what made the difference for me.
true rapids
Dunno not sure if what worked before works now
dark token
Some things just don't make sense looking at the trinket chart the more I look ...
Not true
Find weakness works on whetstone
And the whelpling is hasted
outer arrow
2 questions(bc i see comments and suggestions going both ways)
1-Do I sync/delay puzzle+exs for DM or do i simply send them on CD (if i dont miss casts)
2-How do people run 3x Zoldyck instead of Exs? i have to also drop eiuther SF or SbS unless i'm doing something wrong
misty holly
Find weakness works on whetstone
ooh thank you didn't realize any abilities modified trinkets
umbral rapids
Hi quick dumb question. Rupture twice in opener to get pandemic for exsang ?
storm forum
probably cause its an old trinket and it used to work that way
outer arrow
Hi quick dumb question. Rupture twice in opener to get pandemic for exsang ?
yes, this specific question is a picture in #assassination-faq
umbral rapids
Ok ty 
outer arrow
umbral rapids
Yes I know I meant to ask if the reason for it
Is pandemic
My bad i worded that poorly 😅
outer arrow
ah
outer arrow
embrace 3x Zold?
brazen zodiac
reject puzzle box
embrace kingsbane
brazen zodiac
:(
keen spruce
embrace 3x Zold?
3x zoldyk still simmin higher for me than tiny toxic
and i think i'm losin like 600 dps not running a 405 puzzle box and exang build
teal bloom
@keen spruce 3x zoldyck? 
what talents are you using? Or is that a padding build for eranog and not single target
distant mesa
!log
strange python
It's really weird that the top diurna sin log has no exsang
outer arrow
It's really weird that the top diurna sin log has no exsang
thank god
keen spruce
<@119274470241206273> 3x zoldyck? <:monkahmm:585734084571955211> what talents ar...
sims highest for no exang no puzzle build
slow marsh
Cuz they are finding examples to justify not playing exsang
teal bloom
I do have puzzle box but I'll have to run some sims with different builds that don't have exsang
drifting cloud
how do I sim with the boss starting on X% hp
balmy condor
moment
enemy=Ryler
enemy_initial_health_percentage=20
those two lines
would make a boss with 20% hp
teal bloom
Ryler monkaW
keen spruce
how is poison still alive
balmy condor
real
misty holly
how is poison still alive
I don't understand how the poison build works even without puzzlebox. Rupture and Garrote are such huge parts of damage how can you skip a 2 point talent that adds 30%
distant mesa
Would anyone be willing to help look through my log and see what I don't goofed with
keen spruce
drifting cloud
ironically on a scuffed 3:30 kill timer box exsang would obliterate 
balmy condor
check out my new no puzzle box no flaring cowl full vers build, it plays cold blood
slow marsh
check out my new no puzzle box no flaring cowl full vers build, it plays cold bl...
Where sim
teal bloom
Full vers to maximize grieftorch damage, I see potential
balmy condor
I don't understand how the poison build works even without puzzlebox. Rupture a...
double poisons means double value
old obsidian
I feel that I no longer hit the same as in shadowlands, not even getting close
i pass outlaw and fukign same
with this changes we can assume assa is dead?
slow marsh
Wut
old obsidian
Nah, I'm just speaking for myself, I'm depressed that I don't deal damage like Assa anymore.
winter raft
teal bloom
drifting cloud
slightly tos maybe
viscid spear
slightly tos maybe
sudden canyon
does any1 know what causes the combo point ui to bug out and flash all your combo points for a second
wasnt like this in shadowlands idk if its a known issue or a addon interference
outer arrow
base wow UI?
dark token
Don't use base wow ui
sudden canyon
yea using the base unit frames
sudden canyon
they never feel as fluid
sudden canyon
i could never recreate the gradient on the combopoints when i tried
it was always ugly flat red circles
outer arrow
i use a combination of toxiui+luxtos WAs
somber hill
!log
gusty mirage
wasnt like this in shadowlands idk if its a known issue or a addon interference
well my friend
I have a solution for you
radiant crown
quick question for M+, heres the scenario, you've IC'd garotte and rupture are on everyone, your chillin, everything is starting to fall off and youre pretty sure that that they will survive another full around of dots, do you tab target to each one individually and get your bleeds back up or just tempest / FoK stuff down?
radiant crown
at what point do y ou not spin
radiant crown
in like 3 seconds? 5 seconds? 10?
gusty mirage
you'll just kinda start to guesstimate based on group damage
radiant crown
im swapping over from outlaw because they borked the fucking flow of the spec
so just trying to figure out the aoe rotation, alot more involved than just hit blade flurry and roll face
outer arrow
my man
radiant crown
wdym
dusty zenith
Don’t reapply bleeds if all mobs are going to die within 5-7 seconds
dusty zenith
Drink that tea and spin
somber hill
is it just me my energy regen feels giga bad
since the patch at least
radiant crown
yea its fucked now, i hate it, i dont care about hte lower damage, it just feels fuckin aids
balmy condor
since the patch at least
energy is the same or higher
if you played KB before the patch, you have more energy now
if you played DTB, it's exactly the same
brazen zodiac
👎
radiant crown
is ther a break point for crit then dump into mastery?
balmy condor
no
radiant crown
im at 34% crit
outer arrow
#MakeKBGreatEventually
radiant crown
with 48% mastery
viscid spear
#MakeKBGreatEventually
||die kb die||
radiant crown
break point is the wrong word, efficiency wise, like every % over 50% is less valuable, does anything like that exist or is it just stack crit to the high moon and mastery is a good secondary
IE my gems should be crit / mast not mast / crit
or are they about even
outer arrow
i believe that kind of varies and for gems/enchants its better to sim yourself
balmy condor
break point is the wrong word, efficiency wise, like every % over 50% is less va...
just keep simming
outer arrow
but i dont see a scenario where it makes a big difference
balmy condor
I have no clue what stats I have
and I haven't all expansion
just sim and follow robot
maybe I have 5%
maybe I have 15%
dim slate
My envenom crit % is only 32% but other rogues im looking at have 48% even though i have more crit than them plz help lol
balmy condor
get RNG'd
static glacier
Be luckier
dim slate
lolol
barren hare
GOT MAGE TOWER BOYS LETS GOOO
balmy condor
gratz!
static glacier
Keep between the eyes on the enemy, drop combat swap spec then envenom
balmy condor
transmog
radiant crown
like good transmog? like t2 transmog?
balmy condor
radiant crown
ass, hate the helm
radiant crown
my current helm has a bugged graphic
barren hare
yea the box lmao
barren hare
saw it during the update
outer arrow
My envenom crit % is only 32% but other rogues im looking at have 48% even thoug...
reminds me when i rolled DH and a guildie with much less crit than me, critted more than twice
radiant crown
i like my box, i dont want them to fix it :<
why does the M+ DTB opener not include IC but the kingsbane one does, despite both of them taking IC?
balmy condor
ass, hate the helm
you get a mount when you do all of them
balmy condor
why does the M+ DTB opener not include IC but the kingsbane one does, despite bo...
visuals aren't updated quite yet
radiant crown
oh
magic eagle
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz
balmy condor
if you have carnage you just carnage
outer arrow
all of them for your class or all possible ones?
balmy condor
all of them for your class or all possible ones?
all possible
dreamy elk
Did sin get a bit more of a DPS upgrade than anticipated? I had been simming myself (with the same gear upgrades I got from catalyst + box) pre/post patch and the post patch numbers are a fair amount higher than the pre-patch.
Like a couple of % increase more.
outer arrow
i remember doing the tank ones in legion, but i never rolled a healer, they have a specific one right?
dreamy elk
Where did the DPS increase come from? The extra point in Zoldyck is worth that much more than dashing?
balmy condor
Where did the DPS increase come from? The extra point in Zoldyck is worth that m...
puzzle box keeps getting changed back and forth, there's the zold point
random other background stuff shuffling around
dreamy elk
I shee.
outer arrow
do you not take Shrouded?
fading fiber
This may be a really dumb question but im new to sin. Do I have attack mobs from behind?
static glacier
This may be a really dumb question but im new to sin. Do I have attack mobs from...
You don’t have to, but it’s advisable so you don’t get parried
outer arrow
not have, but mobs can't parry from behind
fading fiber
gotcha ty
crisp badger
we dont hold deathmark for exsang right?
radiant crown
i would hope holding deathmark for a minute is a dps loss
hallow sage
we dont hold deathmark for exsang right?
no, other way around tho, u hold the 2nd exsang for the 3rd dm
balmy condor
where do people get it from? im stuck here
that is the extra zold point
the builds before had 1
you have 2
hallow sage
yo whispyr your mates at skill issues were wildin in a pug earlier
brazen zodiac
outer arrow
that is the extra zold point
oh my b, got it mixed up with people talking bout 3x zold as the extra zold point
balmy condor
yo whispyr your mates at skill issues were wildin in a pug earlier
my mates at skill issues?
hallow sage
yeah apparently they're your good friends lmao
balmy condor
what
hallow sage
from what they were saying
hallow sage
your'e on their discord
balmy condor
OH
hallow sage
LOL
hallow sage
way too high energy lmao
balmy condor
I played some keys with them when I was sick
they provided good entertainment
while I was there
dying
coughing a lung
idle lava
how does ass do compared to outlaw in m+
hallow sage
guy in there legit had lung cancer
radiant crown
outlaw beats it
hallow sage
idle lava
outlaw beats it
ya but by how much am i inting trying ass or can it hold its own
radiant crown
im swapping from outlaw to sin aswell since the change
ebon notch
Before dtb had rly good single target and mediocre aoe
radiant crown
it just straight loses, it can hold its own against other classes outside of like DH
but outlaw vs ass doesnt exist
ebon notch
Now its aoe is better but it's single target is like slightly above average
It's very rarely going to beat outlaw
ebon notch
Maybe in academy if you do massive pulls back to back with stealth resets
ebon notch
its single target is the best in the game
Not in the m+ build unfortunately
ebon notch
He's asking about m+ tho
wild storm
@balmy condor quick thought on Arterial P?
A buddy just told me it's a "bait".
normal olive
wild storm
seeing in the FAQ it's a ST loss.
ebon notch
It's like only good in 4-5 target scenarios
magic vine
its better than dropping exsang out of your build
wild storm
i want to drop xsang.. i'm never REALLY enjoyed that ability.
balmy condor
<@167090536602140682> quick thought on Arterial P?
A buddy just told me it's a ...
your buddy must be a smart guy who reads pins
hallow sage
wild storm
interesting
drifting cloud
@balmy condor sorry for spam but where exactly are the 4% dtb gains from am I silly or is it not in pins
balmy condor
<@167090536602140682> sorry for spam but where exactly are the 4% dtb gains from...
compared to previous patch
sims are a lil higher
we went from like 89 and a bit to 91-92
slow marsh
Part of it is new sims are orc and old ones were tauren
outer arrow
Does Lethality affect Garrote's DoT crit dmg?
balmy condor
ye
carmine dawn
distant mesa
is the accident happening to all 3 specs or just outlaw?
radiant crown
what accident
lament warren
that's so ominous
hallow sage
maybe he means the crash when you pistol shot from stealth that happens for some people?
runic hinge
I haven’t been the same since the accident
hallow sage
i've seen people apparently having it with shadowstrike but haven't heard about any sin variants
ebon notch
Part of it is new sims are orc and old ones were tauren
Is orc better than tauren now or
rain mortar
Is orc better than tauren now or
They are virtually identical
broken ibex
Orc racial buffed.
broken ibex
I hate being dwarf.
ebon notch
Dwarf racial is nuts tho
broken ibex
But, deviate delights are my friend.
radiant crown
^
wind raft
why is kingsbane bad now
hallow sage
imagine not being nelf for smeld smh
broken ibex
And the occasional noggenfogger.
bronze pike
shares node with a better talent
normal olive
why is kingsbane bad now
because it competes directly with dtb now
wind raft
ty
radiant crown
i wish deviates werent like 80g a pop
i still gotta head to tanaris and buy like 300 noggenfoggers
normal olive
i still gotta head to tanaris and buy like 300 noggenfoggers
weak numbers
i have 33k on me
hallow sage
that's tanaris sir
broken ibex
My hero.
radiant crown
oh shit theyre in 200's now
broken ibex
Nice gold total. You’re ballin’
grizzled ruin
@balmy condor opinion on haste simming best?
distant mesa
what accident
it involves Cheat Death
radiant crown
whats the quickest way to tanaris from stormwind
gusty mirage
whats the quickest way to tanaris from stormwind
portal to cavern of times
distant mesa
I dont wanna post the SS in fear of ban
radiant crown
where is that portal? its not in the mage tower in stormwind
radiant crown
nevermind
hallow sage
where is that portal? its not in the mage tower in stormwind
its defs still in there
distant mesa
Oxi, you know about the Cheat Death Bug right?
gusty mirage
no
distant mesa
May I dm you...
gusty mirage
sure
radiant crown
i know the cheat death bug
hallow sage
pweaze sir may i dm u
radiant crown
atleast a cheat death bug
cos when i had my left hand side talented into cheat death but not gouge prior to 10.05 i still got the cheat death proc without been talented into it
i dunno if thats what theyre t alking about tho
balmy condor
<@167090536602140682> opinion on haste simming best?
happens
haste simming best
is a thing
balmy condor
out of all the thoughts to think, that is one of them, yeah
wind raft
so DTB for raid and M+ and arterial for neither?
also the DTB mythic + string does not work
regal bough
I mean, what is low for haste? what is high for the others lol 40% crit 40% mastery 6% haste sound alright?
balmy condor
I mean, what is low for haste? what is high for the others lol 40% crit 40% mast...
does that sim the best for you
balmy condor
so DTB for raid and M+ and arterial for neither?
DTB in raid, DTB IC in m+, AP on council and that's it
wind raft
ty
lament warren
mr ggs
when people in the outlaw channel told you to delete the screenshotof the bug you were experiencing
they were joking
you won't get banned for talking about it
there's multiple forms of elusiveness/cheat bugs rn
royal lantern
#1rule: dont expect anything good from the outlaw channel
regal bough
does that sim the best for you
im running my stat weights now, I just switched out of some haste on a dagger and even with thistle tea im feeling a bit energy starved. Its probably more player error than stat weights but i'm checking.
past bobcat
Is sin or sub rogue better for totem boss mythic?
spice spire
i feel like I fucked up on terros bac
You overcapped a bit but your CDs were well done
distant mesa
legit never played dtb before this patch outside of pvp
granite sentinel
how much % haste do we need now in bleed raid build? having 7% feels very bad 😦
spice spire
You also munched an ambush proc fwiw
spice spire
how much % haste do we need now in bleed raid build? having 7% feels very bad 😦
Greater than 0
spice spire
Go to you > resources > combo points
ebon notch
im running my stat weights now, I just switched out of some haste on a dagger an...
Don't run stat weights
Never ever
Only top gear
ebon notch
Old Man
distant mesa
I was just gonna ignore that
spice spire
I’ve already shown my elitism once today.
Tbf it wouldn’t be critical either way
ebon notch
Gotta help him before cev finds him irl
spice spire
But I’m on one today 
distant mesa
Go to you > resources > combo points
?
spice spire
Yeah you see the waste?
distant mesa
90% of it is Seal Fate
distant mesa
the waste on Mut is after 2 right?
spice spire
Yeah
If you crit over, it would be seal fate
But if you Mut on 5, it’ll give you one point of mut waste
distant mesa
the shouded suff buff how do you not cap that...
distant mesa
royal lantern
using mut at 4cp doesnt count as waste right?
royal lantern
if you have Deeper talented
when do you NOT have deeper talented lol
spice spire
using mut at 4cp doesnt count as waste right?
When you do not it’s waste
I was going on the deeper angle
distant mesa
just envenom at 4cp, I knew that. same with DP 5cp
spice spire
Sorry 
peak bobcat
Envenom at max-1
cloud pike
Stupid group world quest in azure span?
normal olive
have you tried pressing the right button?
royal lantern
Stupid group world quest in azure span?
yes
runic hinge
Same. Just there I couldn’t.
cloud pike
Think it’s bugged, I had to suffer through that last night
And it was not that way any other time in the past when that WQ came up
regal bough
oh fun, my puzzle box wasnt beating out whispering incarn icon last week and is today with 4pc and a new dagger
outer arrow
oh fun, my puzzle box wasnt beating out whispering incarn icon last week and is ...
Whats ur other trink, out of curiousity
regal bough
411 grieftorch
outer arrow
2 on-use should be a sin
radiant crown
whetstone and grieftorch master race
should sin run out of energy? im use to playing outlaw where its just like an unlimited pool
outer arrow
sometimes, if you spam mut/envenom
regal bough
whetstone and grieftorch master race
im trying, i got the ring first run this season and havent even been in a group where the trinket dropped a single time lol
spice spire
2 on-use should be a sin
crisp badger
no, other way around tho, u hold the 2nd exsang for the 3rd dm
ah tracks
radiant crown
sometimes, if you spam mut/envenom
i only get this on single target, multi target im fine cos duh, but even with thistle theres stil times im like twiddlin my dick waiting for energy
outer arrow
yeah on more than 1 target you get extra energy
but you can starve yourself out of energy on ST
peak mulch
!log
radiant crown
is t hat a bad thing though?
kind jacinth
any mage tower tips??
outer arrow
its very rare that it happens
runic hinge
any mage tower tips??
There’s a guide on wowhead with a video
kind jacinth
There’s a guide on wowhead with a video
Assasination exclusive ?
runic hinge
Assasination exclusive ?
regal bough
oh yeah, its time to go get that legion fel wearbear
radiant crown
plate spinning gives me anxiety
balmy condor
tried the new Shiv Talent, anything I can improve here
yeh you could play a better build
wth is going on here with the 2 mut points
also you're just missing a point in the class tree I guess?
where's ER?
I see 2 points in lethality
so that's one point
can't find the other
maybe master poisoner?
seems weird to just kneecap yourself like that
just playing with 30/31 in the class tree and 28/30 in the spec tree is pretty bold
grim tangle
doomblade without sbs on a fight you never mutilate?
grim tangle
sbs probably insane on that fight
balmy condor
I put builds up on wowhead
for each fight
and people just playing mut talents
on a fight where you don't mut
kind jacinth
guys guys... I was still topping dps though 😄
balmy condor
yah sure
but you asked how you could improve
I parsed a 99 in heroic yesterday on reclear at 150k
kind jacinth
@balmy condor now when Im looking at it, man it was horrible
balmy condor
so you gotta find another 40k :P
kind jacinth
i could have done so much more
balmy condor
there's movement up
radiant crown
150k on what fight?
balmy condor
council
kind jacinth
I parsed a 99 in heroic yesterday on reclear at 150k
Sensei
balmy condor
some of it probably a gear diff though
let me check
oh
yeah
398
you're boned
kind jacinth
I can get about 5-6k more I guess
peak mulch
and tell me what i can improve pls
balmy condor
you can but no guarantee I'll check it
peak mulch
kk i did if u find the time pls do
balmy condor
I can get about 5-6k more I guess
I think 120-125 is totally doable with you gear
kind jacinth
absolutely, Im I sorry I disappointed you Sensei
kind jacinth
I will do better(no kidding)
balmy condor
it's a 90 overall
radiant crown
wanna see my logs as a day 1 sin who cant even plate spin
balmy condor
that's banging
radiant crown
guaranteed to disappoint
kind jacinth
it's still a good log
😄
balmy condor
but you can do better
kind jacinth
i will
balmy condor
next week I wanna see an orange number yeh?
kind jacinth
for sure Sensei
kind jacinth
yes sensei
languid moth
We’re all out here just trying to make Whispyr proud of us.
royal lantern
i achieved that allreardy 
radiant crown
i wish there was a dude in the training area that refreshed your cd's
inland kernel
I checked wowhead build for m+ so still only AA takes carnage?
rapid gyro
So I’m changing from Outlaw to Assassination and I’m going to need some help. How does it stack up to other classes in M+ after the changes?
violet jackal
best boss dam, dogwater aoe
peak bobcat
Isn’t sub best in m+ now?
Probably
Definitely the best spec to fall asleep mid dungeon as
royal lantern
Isn’t sub best in m+ now?
storm->black powder, slamm that secret tech macro on cd and be top dps
grim jay
Phew so much unneeded hate
Still gotta keep rupture up on everything, keep snd up, do your dance order and not spam sectec on cd 
rapid gyro
Definitely the best spec to fall asleep mid dungeon as
Is Sub easy? I’ve heard Assassination is by far the easier spec.
late veldt
slow marsh
Hey guys does anyone know if you hold sepsis for kingsbane or kingsbane for sepsis? It seems like you would want to sepsis on cool down to get shrouded suffercation twice with all the garrett talents right?
grim jay
Thats some real +15 "i just need to live through this" stuff
next edge
storm->black powder, slamm that secret tech macro on cd and be top dps
If you're the only dps on that dungeon, then maybe
grim tangle
I did a +17 once
next edge
If you say sub is the easiest spec in the game in dungeons you probably never played more than 5 mins of it
balmy condor
Sin in m+ is struggles
next edge
Sub’s pretty easy this patch
It is, but also has deep improvements that are hard to manage
Rupture positioning, rupture reapplies, etc
grim jay
Sub’s pretty easy this patch
Its easy on a basic level, but not the easiest. Aside from that nearly every spec is easy on a basic level
misty holly
Sin in m+ is struggles
So up until now I just played DTB in my m+ runs... I know it was bad lol. Did my first dungeon today as DTB -and- IC together. omg so much damage on trash packs.
grim jay
Sin in m+ is struggles
That is true
next edge
But its easier to just say stupid takes (not you whispyr) and keep living
grim jay
I would triple ping you all day
next edge
What a take I must have had
Do you want to take something else? 🍆
balmy condor
Sub prolly isn’t the easiest spec in the game yeah
rapid gyro
What does Sin struggle so much with? It seems like it can do “fine” AoE? & it’s single target is dope. It’s not super strong AoE it doesn’t seem, but not the worst?
balmy condor
That’s pretty cope
There’s no rules to follow in aoe on finisher usage
You just gotta know
When to push what
And adapt to the situation
misty holly
What does Sin struggle so much with? It seems like it can do “fine” AoE? & it’s ...
I think it's the fact that you spec away from single target pretty heavily in order to get good aoe. The other rogue specs don't seem to have that need.
So it feels bad.
grim jay
Mucho effort for what it does
balmy condor
You’re constantly fighting a balance of aoe and single target damage and energy management
The entire time
steel ridge
sin feels more well rounded now imo
It even felt kinda good on council
Not sub numbers. But its coming in reasonable
balmy condor
Feels good on council cause you don’t have to single target anything 
devout gate
Quick question, how do you use a puzzle box on openers? Use it, quickly stealth and do opener rotation?
steel ridge
AP needs something more tho fr
balmy condor
Quick question, how do you use a puzzle box on openers? Use it, quickly stealth ...
Openers are in the faq
peak bobcat
What's the best key you have ever done?
All 20s and play All 3 specs and sure there are some minuscule things that can edge you some more dps, but acting like sub is some calculated spec is delusional
royal lantern
If you're the only dps on that dungeon, then maybe
man, i dont wanna copypaste the wiki article for "exegeration" every single time 
devout gate
Either I'm blind, but I don't see any mention the Puzzle Box, hence the question.
grim jay
All 20s and play All 3 specs and sure there are some minuscule things that can e...
Saying its the easiest is aswell
balmy condor
Either I'm blind, but I don't see any mention the Puzzle Box, hence the question...
“Use channeled trinkets here”
grim jay
man, i dont wanna copypaste the wiki article for "exegeration" every single time...
Rather elaborate about SnD 
royal lantern
snd bad
devout gate
Ah, thanks
peak bobcat
Saying its the easiest is aswell
Name an easier spec that outputs as much or more dps for the effort required
grim jay
Name an easier spec that outputs as much or more dps for the effort required
Both warrior specs now
Arent far behind and easier
DH
next edge
All 20s and play All 3 specs and sure there are some minuscule things that can e...
So you basically never played sub in ak ey
next edge
man, i dont wanna copypaste the wiki article for "exegeration" every single time...
shut up Tryan
next edge
What’s your criteria then
well, the fact that you have so many optimisations that boost your dps way more than "edging" it
and are not minuscule
saying sub is the easiest spec in the game in keys
is ltierally cope
or having no clue about how it works
misty holly
AP needs something more tho fr
TTB needs to be buffed more so that it hitting 5 targets is good.
steel ridge
Why i'm wrong
Cause its true, sub in keys is the easiest rogue spec
misty holly
Get rid of the no energy thing (who cares) and buff the talent to 1000%
grim jay
Cause its true, sub in keys is the easiest rogue spec
Outlaw is easier ngl
rapid gyro
I’m just confused maybe? I am BRAND NEW to Rogue. Literally 365 ilvl with 343 daggers. Hahah. I was holding 60k on dummies pressing 4 buttons. Of course it could be optimized, but base rotation seems very easy as Sin.
grim jay
next edge
Cause its true, sub in keys is the easiest rogue spec
He sais
it's the easiest spec in the game
grim jay
it's the easiest spec in the game
I mean, he prolly an OL boy, they mostly have weird opinions about the other specs
steel ridge
Not wow forums
peak bobcat
The average player can pilot sub rogue and find the most success in keys
grim jay
While its basically fury with extra
peak bobcat
It’s an opinion sure
strange python
Raz sucks so much plz make it stop
steel ridge
New outlaw players wil do horrendous dps while doing ok dps on sub aoe 😂
grim jay
Raz sucks so much plz make it stop
People hoping for nerfs left and right
strange python
It's just not a fun fight
peak bobcat
Raz is the only real boss in the whole raid
royal lantern
Raz sucks so much plz make it stop
what difficulty?
strange python
Obv mythic
strange python
Raz is the only real boss in the whole raid
This is...a bad take.
summer briar
“Use channeled trinkets here”
working on my opener so u can stop mocking me and maby i can do 99s instead of 97s, First garrot cast dosent show in timeline in details
royal lantern
suffering mythic raza rn means you are some 8days a week guy, and derserve to get pushed into a locker
grim jay
The average player can pilot sub rogue and find the most success in keys
Funny considering outlaw is easier and for many pug rogues on 2.4k+ that play sub have the reputation of dealing bad dmg
balmy condor
working on my opener so u can stop mocking me and maby i can do 99s instead of 9...
Oh we doing this again?
next edge
suffering mythic raza rn means you are some 8days a week guy, and derserve to ge...
Do you guys killed spider yet?
royal lantern
sorry, i dontt make the rules
late veldt
I’m just confused maybe? I am BRAND NEW to Rogue. Literally 365 ilvl with 343 da...
proof
royal lantern
Do you guys killed spider yet?
20%
strange python
There's a particular type of sweaty player who thinks any boss under 150 pulls isn't a real boss. But kurog into dathea is 160 pulls on the low end. Diurna is another 50-60. Sure. That's not historically difficult standards but it's not like it's guardian/kt
royal lantern
on the first day
peak bobcat
This is...a bad take.
The other bosses are like 50 pull bosses for a hof guild and Raz is like a 200
royal lantern
30something
oak tangle
I feel like i must be in a minority when I find both other specs harder
normal olive
working on my opener so u can stop mocking me and maby i can do 99s instead of 9...
wait how tf do you have combo points for snd
next edge
30something
We have been 4h there and its 9%, so it's a sunday kill 100%
summer briar
wait how tf do you have combo points for snd
open with garrot
balmy condor
wait how tf do you have combo points for snd
Doesn’t show the pull garrote
next edge
then we go Kurog
strange python
50-70 pulls is entirely reasonable and I'm tired of pretending that bosses should be 150+ with a 350+ end boss.
next edge
a friend of mine went spider->Dathea
normal olive
ah
next edge
ohnonono
royal lantern
I feel like i must be in a minority when I find both other specs harder
its all a personal thing in the end
grim jay
New outlaw players wil do horrendous dps while doing ok dps on sub aoe 😂
Seen the same for sub
normal olive
royal lantern
50-70 pulls is entirely reasonable and I'm tired of pretending that bosses shoul...
thank you 🙂
peak bobcat
Rogue is just the hardest class in the game played by the best players
balmy condor
ah
Sorry I meant to say he got a 40 second pull timer and pre-mfd and then talented out of it before the pull
oak tangle
but i did come from ESO which is essentially plate spinning
steel ridge
Rogue is just the hardest class in the game played by the best players
Its the best class in the game played by the hardest players
strange python
I don't know anyone who genuinely enjoys extending three weeks on a single boss. Shits not fun.
peak bobcat
It’s not our fault we are stronger, smarter, the most handsome it’s impossible for other classes to compete
normal olive
Sorry I meant to say he got a 40 second pull timer and pre-mfd and then talented...
that would be kinda funny
oak tangle
does anyone else spec out of bone spike and into 3 zoldyck for raz?
autumn valve
hello I had another question than the new mm+ build, isn't the energy generation slower and more complicated without the left part of the talent tree?
summer briar
Sorry I meant to say he got a 40 second pull timer and pre-mfd and then talented...
im i doing it better now tho , or anything u wanna correct on
autumn valve
hello I had another question than the new mm+ build, isn't the energy generation...
On this one build
strange python
I come here to shit post and bitch about raz sucking and y'all wanna shit post about builds and god complexes instead 😦
balmy condor
im i doing it better now tho , or anything u wanna correct on
Looks good yep
royal lantern
I come here to shit post and bitch about raz sucking and y'all wanna shit post a...
want us to be horny instead?
strange python
No that's mizerok and hataros job in OT
summer briar
Looks good yep
just need to farm a puzzle box ... yikes
quasi pine
I come here to shit post and bitch about raz sucking and y'all wanna shit post a...
There is no god complexes on rogues, only truth
balmy condor
hello I had another question than the new mm+ build, isn't the energy generation...
Why would it be slower?
We didn’t take venom rush before
And now you have dashing
So you gained energy
oak tangle
thistle tea is life
balmy condor
I guess you could argue no blindside
quasi pine
Energy generation is in the middle? Not in the left spot?
balmy condor
But seems like a weird hill to die on about energy regen
normal olive
Whispyr needs his energy downtime to tab into discord and help people
balmy condor
Nah that’s between pulls on stream
raven knoll
are we really taking the improved posions talent in m+?
grim jay
So you gained energy
Did we lose damage to gain it back tho ?
strange python
Whispyr spends his downtime in pill making sure I'm not out of line
summer briar
worth using my 372 puzzle over whetstone
lyric pecan
Just having a first chance to look at the new patch builds finally, is there a specific reason for Elusiveness over Cheat Death now, or is that just personal pref?
summer briar
grim jay
Just having a first chance to look at the new patch builds finally, is there a s...
Personal pref node
oak tangle
convice me otherwise cheat death is a crutch
lyric pecan
Thanks.
summer briar
playing without cheatdeath is not an option on prog
balmy condor
Just having a first chance to look at the new patch builds finally, is there a s...
The top 3 rows are completely whatever but I need to change that because people just blind imported the builds and complained no chest death :P
balmy condor
When running sims it just defaulted to option 1
lyric pecan
Makes sense.
balmy condor
So
That’s what it was forever
Didn’t think it would cause issues but yeh
Is what it is
lyric pecan
nod Well, thank you!
balmy condor
Np
lyric pecan
I appreciate the info.
grim jay
Most people pick Cheat tho
oak tangle
i feel like if you're at the point of needing cheat death on prog, someone else is probs already dead and ruined it anyway
lyric pecan
yeah it's what I'm used to for sure, so I was curious.
strange python
Taking elusiveness is a DPS loss
balmy condor
i feel like if you're at the point of needing cheat death on prog, someone else ...
Yeah I’ve never stood in anything
I always dodge mechanics
No mistakes gaming
strange python
It will encourage you to press feint more often, which is an energy dump.
lyric pecan
my secret is I stand in everything
grim jay
No mistakes gaming
And no mistakes in life
strange python
What if I am a mistake
balmy condor
I press my buttons perfectly and have never taken avoidable damage (aside from emotional)
lyric pecan
A true progue
oak tangle
not about not making mistakes, but on balance someone else without cheat death likely made it too
random fossil
never spaced out during mechanics before
drifting cloud
maybe if you played elusiveness on kurog whispyr ...
grim jay
What if I am a mistake
Cant say you are a mistake even if we argued a lot
balmy condor
maybe if you played elusiveness on kurog whispyr ...
Real shit
grim jay
balmy condor
Should’ve feinted the ticking damage to live
Instead of having cheat proc
From a lack of healing
That would’ve done it
oak tangle
shroud
eternal vortex
go through them with shroud
they just one shot u no matter what
u can get % later on
grim jay
Yeah but tank thought it was a bright idea to pull
eternal vortex
strange python
I wanna be sat on raz prog so I don't get raz loot in my vault loot table...
But my class is good at raz
Problems
grim jay
I wanna be sat on raz prog so I don't get raz loot in my vault loot table...
But you can get legs
strange python
3 ilvl on legs not worth 3 items diluting chance for dagger/torch
balmy condor
I wanna be sat on raz prog so I don't get raz loot in my vault loot table...
Every week my guild lead asks if anyone wants a spiteful storm
And every week it’s like
A half hearted “it’s okay” from a tank
strange python
Literally all I need now is diurna loot and eranog ring
eternal vortex
strange python
And I guess 421 box
violet moat
Wait vault loot only gives gear from bosses killed?
oak tangle
is that actually how the vault works? only loot from the bosses you kill?
strange python
@balmy condor hispyr what's the logic with exsang timing for 930 kill times. Logs seem...super split. Some synced some desynced
Yes
eternal vortex
Wait vault loot only gives gear from bosses killed?
yes, but u can get any tier piece even if u didnt killed any of the later bosses
strange python
Killing a boss unlocks it's loot for your fault
violet moat
M+ as well?
oak tangle
damn, i need to play an alt in raid now
violet moat
Makes sense why I got eranog ring
strange python
I tried both on diurna reclear and sync felt like it did much less but who knows
balmy condor
<@167090536602140682> hispyr what's the logic with exsang timing for 930 kill ti...
1 4 8
oak tangle
depsair do 4 eranog's in the week and nothing else for the ring
strange python
Not 0, 3, 6, 9?
strange python
But you're losing an exsang cast
royal lantern
We have been 4h there and its 9%, so it's a sunday kill 100%
we have to re-clear first today, so yeha, i dont think a kill cus that will be the 2nd time terros, i expect some wipes, maybe senarth kill on tuesday next week them for 2nd raid day
balmy condor
That’s cool
mossy python
I don't understand smthing about stuff, is the crafted head better than set head ? I already have 5 pieces of set
balmy condor
It’s a naked exsang
balmy condor
I don't understand smthing about stuff, is the crafted head better than set head...
Yes
strange python
Hmm
how good is the spiked counterweight trinket from BRH? picked it up from timewalking today...vendor it?
mossy python
thx
strange python
Also the top diurna log isn't even running exsang
balmy condor
Okay
strange python
Which is real odd
royal lantern
Also the top diurna log isn't even running exsang
how many pi
balmy condor
how good is the spiked counterweight trinket from BRH? picked it up from timewal...
No good
drifting cloud
wait so timewalking keys are actually up
strange python
how many pi
0
devout gate
anyone else get fps drops when destealthing?
drifting cloud
balmy condor
wait so timewalking keys are actually up
Yeh but it all sucks
oak tangle
but we could do timewalking CoS
drifting cloud
tw cos ring > df cos ring
strange python
Wait isn't manwi a rogue disc user?
balmy condor
That’s a guild?
strange python
Idiot? Yeah
They started in uhh sanctum? Went from low CE to HoF range in about one tier
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/vqzpjDwrm2hbtBaG#fight=28&type=casts&source=14
This log is interesting af
sudden sigil
Are there any keys where sin makes sence vs sub / outlaw?
I am cosnidering learning sin for m+, since i do enjoy it in raid
strange python
I mean true. But no exsang is interesting
strange python
Are there any keys where sin makes sence vs sub / outlaw?
I am cosnidering learn...
HoV has a pretty good pack size for sin.
sudden sigil
HoV has a pretty good pack size for sin.
Oooooh interresting
drifting cloud
its also a perfect kill timer for his cd usage
strange python
Fenrir change is big positive for sin over sub/outlaw too
drifting cloud
boss goes 35% at like 6:20 so he gets 2 dms in execute
strange python
Now that you don't need vanish every time
drifting cloud
and then boss dies a few seconds later
marble hemlock
also 424grief
sudden sigil
Now that you don't *need* vanish every time
Actually true
marble hemlock
how big is diffy even
balmy condor
2%
hollow helm
Based^
marble hemlock
and that point goes into zold instead?
hollow helm
improved poison
balmy condor
Imp poison yeh
marble hemlock
not based
sudden sigil
Oh wow the hate for exan is real
Im still impressed they didnt nerf the CD
down from 3 minutes tbh
marble hemlock
If you figure out how to put 11 points into the last gate
if theres a will, theres a way
balmy condor
Im still impressed they didnt nerf the CD
You’re impressed they didn’t buff an already strong talent after they nerfed it from being the strongest talent on the tree?
devout gate
Seriously, I'm the only one getting FPS drops when getting out of stealth?
grim jay
down from 3 minutes tbh
They would hate even more
balmy condor
You must be impressed by a lot of things
midnight phoenix
Does Whetstone work with our talents?
sudden sigil
I regret my statement
balmy condor
Does Whetstone work with our talents?
What
midnight phoenix
Bleed damage
sudden sigil
Forgive me supreme overlords
grim jay
The good old whetstone bleed
balmy condor
Whetstone doesn’t do bleed damage 
grim jay
Dont know what to say
balmy condor
What the fuck is happening in this chat
midnight phoenix
Ahh it says physical damage over 6 secs
balmy condor
It went downhill so fast
midnight phoenix
So sounds like a bleed
steel spire
we need chef back
oak tangle
bleed is a specific type
strange python
Can we go back to talking about how raz sucks? And i dont wanna do another week on it?
hollow helm
Raz is sick
balmy condor
Ahh it says physical damage over 6 secs
Yeah so physical damage is not bleed damage, or else it would say bleed damage. Also just as a baseline, trinkets have 0 interactions with specs
midnight phoenix
Np
strange python
Raz is heinous
grim jay
Yeah so physical damage is not bleed damage, or else it would say bleed damage. ...
DoS MA !
strange python
We probably get it next wed/Thu but I want out
oak tangle
i got a 100 parse on day one of lfr
hollow helm
EZ
jade abyss
I do more dmg when i hit my buttons harder?
balmy condor
Yeah that’s actually how you can make AP work
You just push the shiv button REAAAAAALLLLY hard
grim jay
I do more dmg when i hit my buttons harder?
10% Bonus for gaming naked aswell
And glue your hand to your mouse
jade abyss
10% Bonus for gaming naked aswell
Yeah i heard from that and thats what i do
strange python
10% Bonus for gaming naked aswell
I game naked and I slam meters
Fuck I wish we public logged
jade abyss
And glue your hand to your mouse
This is not a good idea for my mouse
oak tangle
boycott raidbots and tell yourself your build is best works too
hollow helm
How does one figure out what theyre doing wrong in their 90-95 parses to push them to bigger number
grim jay
How does one figure out what theyre doing wrong in their 90-95 parses to push th...
Analyze adapt overcome
jade abyss
Push harder buttons
oak tangle
i just blame kill timers and assume anyone higher has more ilvl
balmy condor
Ye pretty much
normal mist
I do more dmg when i hit my buttons harder?
Yes
balmy condor
“I only sim 85k”
burnt latch
How does one figure out what theyre doing wrong in their 90-95 parses to push th...
check what the people doing more damage than you are doing
replicate
profit
grim jay
You can check for things to improve on or let someone review logs. I'm mostly satisfied with 97%+, blaming rng, gear diff and sending DM -> Exs
Compare logs aswell ye
oak tangle
i just go off the higher number of ilvl parse or overall. if it gets you down just log lfr and froth over oranges
normal mist
“I only sim 85k”
I'm simming around 74/75k, if in a real fight like Terros or eranogg i do 70k dps, am i doing a good job?
balmy condor
I'm simming around 74/75k, if in a real fight like Terros or eranogg i do 70k dp...
Didn’t do 80k uninstall
strange python
How does one figure out what theyre doing wrong in their 90-95 parses to push th...
Open your log, check the max log (without externals) with a similar kill time. Compare casts of major moves (shiv, CDs) to see if you're missing any, compare cast sequence timeline to see if they're doing anything differently, compare buff uptimes to see if you're failing envenom uptime, etc.