assassination

[slim hamlet]

cba doing PI shit

also we have 5uhdk 🙂

[agile geode]

ah lol

or just a simple, "all your bleeds are buffed by 50% for x seconds" and 2 min cd

[slim hamlet]

why are the sub rogues specificaly giga geared?

bonus luck in talent tree?

[keen spruce]

idk they wouldn't play sub on terros if they weren't

[grim jay]

So you mean deathmark basically

[lament warren]

sub and sin sim similarly

sub cares less about kill time

[keen spruce]

yeah i mean assa should have a little more ST love

[lament warren]

i’m not giga geared but id play sub on terros

[royal lantern]

yes, dont play the spec that does the same/more st dmg in a st fight

[slim hamlet]

i mean our stats are more or less the same

Besides haste at some point for sin and not for sub

[lament warren]

sub wants vers

more than mastery in st

or approximately similar

[keen spruce]

i'm not a geologist idk

[agile geode]

i hate the fact that the bleeds get sliced

[keen spruce]

we also get the benefit of being able to do mechanics and lose a lot less dmg

[grim jay]

More would be weird considering optimal profile

[agile geode]

you're right too

[grim jay]

Sin has the benefit of execute on progress if you have many people dying

Thats about it rn

[agile geode]

but you have to play exang

[grim jay]

Exsang is whatever if you are a chad sin player

[lament warren]

exsang is based

[keen spruce]

exsang still sims worse for me

[lament warren]

i love exsang

[agile geode]

good for you bro

[keen spruce]

i'm not makin another gif of link throwing exang in the sea

[grim jay]

Do you have 4p?

[keen spruce]

just imagine that the one I use for whispyr and puzzle box also has it

[lament warren]

i don’t even sim anymore i just free wheel it

[keen spruce]

ofc

[grim jay]

Puzzle ?

[keen spruce]

also sims worse

[grim jay]

Weird.

[keen spruce]

i mean it's a 405

[lament warren]

i believe you

[agile geode]

trinket with 3 sec cast and exang

[slim hamlet]

Exsang on 3 min cd is kinda based

[keen spruce]

it'd probably sime higher if it was better

[agile geode]

what a terrible gameplay lel

[lament warren]

you guys are just haters

[keen spruce]

I am a proud puzzle box hater

[slim hamlet]

99% sure its only 2 sec

[keen spruce]

2 second guzzler cast

[agile geode]

y 2

sorry

[lament warren]

it’s 3 reduced by haste

[keen spruce]

2 second puzzle box cast

[slim hamlet]

nah

[grim jay]

And off gcd

[slim hamlet]

no shot its 3 seconds

[lament warren]

or 2.5 really

sry

[agile geode]

• you have to press garrote 203 times

[slim hamlet]

I thought it was just 2 flat

[agile geode]

in '0.01 seconds

[keen spruce]

pretty sure it's just 2

[lament warren]

oh it is 2 lol

something else is over 2

i’m not sure what

[grim jay]

So its 1 bcs off gcd

[slim hamlet]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[grim jay]

Thats on every bleed build, no matter exs or puzzlebox

[agile geode]

it does btw

[grim jay]

You open the same with bleed dtb with and without exs

Except for exs obviously

[nocturne current]

xD

I bet someone will make a Sea Chart a couple of generations after to loot it

I looted a Boon yesterday and this was my soundtrack trying to use it on M20.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDK9QqIzhwk

[shrewd night]

You are amongst Brethren here

[nocturne current]

I'm a proud hater of any on-use trinket.. Puzzle I can manage, but all these within 2-min gimmick uses..

I could live with stat-sticks any day..

I'll live to the day Activision decides to put product placement on trinkets.. Here, solve this mini Candy Crush puzzle mid fight for free stats.

[shrewd night]

On use trinkets are fine, yaknow when you gain the effect of it instantly

None of this delayed 2-3 seconds bullshit

[slim hamlet]

sounds like a skill issue to hate on use trinkets

[shrewd night]

[shrewd night]

You sound like someone enjoying exsang

[steel ridge]

[slim hamlet]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[visual hemlock]

i hate exsang so much i convince someone doomblade is exsang couse they asked me why i dont play it 😄

[shrewd night]

Same icon, same effect

[visual hemlock]

They dont know how assa works so lie worked out haha

[steel ridge]

why didnt you just say that you dont like it?

[slim hamlet]

"But what about the 1% dmg gain"?

[visual hemlock]

its a 3min cd and it prevents me usually to swap talents as i have to wait for cooldown ;D

[slim hamlet]

huh

i hope u aint pulling with cds on cooldown anyway

[visual hemlock]

they had to hotfix it on week one or sth

in raid you had to wait for it to go off cd if you wipe on pull

[slim hamlet]

oh yea that sucked

tea and exsang

yea we didnt wait

u just suffered

[royal lantern]

oh god ,this shit is so annoying

[ashen rover]

trying to not press exsang when dm is on cd https://youtu.be/VM3uXu1Dq4c

[shrewd night]

Even better

Pushing exsang when dm is 2 seconds into its cd

[ashen rover]

What about

[nocturne current]

rip

[ashen rover]

Pushing puzzlebox

[slim hamlet]

Realising u forgot to press exsang

The first few weeks as sin rogue

was the worst

[ashen rover]

Worst feeling

[slim hamlet]

nah

that shit slams

I can feel the adrenaline

My blood flowing

[ashen rover]

[slim hamlet]

Rage boiling

Thats good btw

[nocturne current]

I always the play the game 20 seconds into the fight.

Let's see what button I forgot to press this time.

[slim hamlet]

I have glowing weakauras so I know what I forgot

big brain

Dont have to look for it

[nocturne current]

I always forget some shit, and worse of it is because I have keyboard buttons all over the place, so the initial rotation looks like I'm paying my taxes

[shut owl]

I don't understand how some folks have their keys setup lol

[keen spruce]

w,3,4,q,q,shift+w, mouse4, 1, 2, shift+1, shift+e, e

writing it out makes me not like my opener as much

[nocturne current]

I'm trying to figure out my most bizarre one, it's probably tea on F4

[slim hamlet]

It was bad for me the first few weeks

I never really forget anything now

[nocturne current]

Or FOK in F3 which means I always have to constantly be switching my hand from F4 keys to WASD

[slim hamlet]

a few times I forget to hold shiv when playing KB, however that wont be an issue next week 🙂

[nocturne current]

Imagine me in M+ doing FOK in F3 and then crimson in SHIFT+3

rip movement

[keen spruce]

i only use f keys for raid markers

[nocturne current]

I have to move in the time in-between the GCD

[slim hamlet]

Opener: c-2-c-ctrl+q-ctrl+c-q-v-5-c-z-shift+f-r-shift+2-shift+5-q-ctrl+v-ctrl+f

[nocturne current]

c-2-c-ctrl+q

also cursed

It's like playing a piano song but instead of notes, DPS comes out of it.

[keen spruce]

the real mother fuck is getting an ambush proc on dathea during cyclone

[nocturne current]

So DPS is just one well played melody. Poetic.

[keen spruce]

cuz I gotta hit shift with my pinky and R with my thumb

while holding d

[ripe lion]

I know everyone has different taste in bindings but hows this look to yall?

[slim hamlet]

mine is fine for that, alt+e is ambush and I use a to move out of cyclone

[keen spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/scarymovie-stronghand-take-my-gif-5462582

lookin like this guy

trynna do my rotation

[slim hamlet]

no shot u use F keys

My keyboard makes that illegal

Way too far away

[nocturne current]

I have to move with MOUSE1+MOUSE2

[ripe lion]

Esdf squad here

[slim hamlet]

wat

[keen spruce]

asd squad here

[shut owl]

new derogatory to replace keyboard turning: mouse moving

[keen spruce]

any S forward enjoyers?

[slim hamlet]

idk I never use 1-5 for anything importan in usual rotation

[ripe lion]

Thats why my sprint is bound to shift-e

[slim hamlet]

makes it too hard to move for me

[nocturne current]

I'm gonna get a pedal, one one foot for Exsanguinate, the other foot for Deathmark.

[ripe lion]

I’m using a naga so everything important is buttons 1-6 and shift 1-6

[keen spruce]

I've always used an FPS mouse and at this point i'm too stubborn to switch

[shut owl]

this is uh... M+ , stealth is on f2 lol

[ripe lion]

Even with the naga rouge us the most buttons i have ever used in wow

[slim hamlet]

MMO mouse wouldnt be useful for me

Cant click mouse buttons without making cursor fly 20 meters to the right

[keen spruce]

I don't use my mouse for anything rotational

[shut owl]

I tend to cycle the top left utility into and out of shiftq-r depending on the dungeon

[keen spruce]

just pots mounts and scroll wheel for shoud and tricks

[nocturne current]

TRINKET CLICK ALERT

[shut owl]

I've had too many bad times fat fingering that damn boon during sanguin this week :/

[ripe lion]

So I am brand new to rogue I started it last week, basic rotation is garrote, mut, rupture and refresh?

[keen spruce]

!faq

[shut owl]

can't trust the tank to not run cleave on top of me

oh you sweet sweet summer child

[ancient halo]

On use trinket = Shift+spacebar.

[nocturne current]

The most funny part is that I have to increase the mouse cursor to 64x64 to find the cursor mid-fight to click on the staff.

Legit raid settings.

[shut owl]

ooo, thats a good one; thanks jens

but wait, theres more

[ripe lion]

That is pretty good, shift-tab for me personally

[slim hamlet]

how

[slim hamlet]

do u have this small of an amount of buttons

[shut owl]

may I present round two: KB/exsang raid

pay no mind to my defensives being on COMPLETELY DIFFERENT KEYS

[keen spruce]

no feint keybind

[shut owl]

oh, its probably cuz I did a big rebind

it should be on a key

[nocturne current]

[shut owl]

hush, its usually on shift-R

I just moved all the keybind slots over by one visually and didnt update this profile since I was doing nothing but raz for the last 5 days =.=

raid-wise anyways

[keen spruce]

then no juice box keybind

[slim hamlet]

nah man

I got told my keybinds are horrific always

I swear everyone that sends theirs are more cursed

[keen spruce]

I accept that mine arecursed

[keen spruce]

but i'm the only S forward enjoyer i've met

[next edge]

Everyone's binding are personal

[shut owl]

I feel like mine are logical, just terrible for anyone without giant spiders for hands

[next edge]

Mine are a mess to but they work

[shut owl]

but I can play an 10th on a keyboard like a monster t-t

[slim hamlet]

how do so many

have like 10 less keybinds

[shut owl]

I dont know either lol

like, my sub bars are fucking barren cuz I lazy-macrod half of it together

[keen spruce]

I cover all of mine without ctrl or alt modifers and no mmo mouse

[slim hamlet]

Mine are giga optimized for some reason

[shut owl]

but my sin bars are a goddamn wall

[keen spruce]

[slim hamlet]

9 year old me didnt have big enough hands for 1-5 so I used my main abilities on q-e-f-c-x

big brain

[junior aurora]

i don’t even have a forward key anymore i just use my mouse

[shut owl]

mouse-mover alert

[visual hemlock]

i walk with mouse and strave left right using mouse keys

[slim hamlet]

that shit cursed

I only use alt for potion and ambush

But no ctrl is cursed

[junior aurora]

alt easier than ctrl for me to press tbh

[keen spruce]

[ornate topaz]

Did anybody see a picture how the new talent trees will look?

[shut owl]

ctrl modifiers are for discord commands for me, so I can't :/

[keen spruce]

i even have shift+V for my yes chef macro

plenty of room

[ornate topaz]

is there an updated talent calculator ?

[shut owl]

wowhead has them on the ptr tab

[slim hamlet]

yea its on wowhead ptr tab

[keen spruce]

okay i technically have ctrl+q for distract

[ornate topaz]

thank you both ❤️ @slim hamlet

[balmy condor]

the wowhead guide itself is actually updated to 10.0.5 as well

just btw

[ornate topaz]

I am pretty hyped about the new talent tree...when I was leveling up my rogue in Dragonflight I wanted to go 100% assa but was lil bit let down by the fact I cannot play DTB + IC

which changes now!

[steel ridge]

yeah its going to be great

[shut owl]

whispyr playing for the future

[distant fox]

is it me or do outlaws sucks? have barely seen one that does 50k+. the first sin ive seen did 75k in algethar.
chainpulls, no restealth opportunities and still did like 15-20k more then a normal outlaw in this key o.o

[balmy condor]

oh fuck the pvp talents

I forgor

[steel ridge]

i like AP aswell, but it doesnt seem to be up there number wise

maybe depending on dungeon

[shut owl]

M+ gonna feel so weird for me lol... I FINALLY got used to KB/IC to where its matching/beating sub in most cases

[junior aurora]

outlaw is the fotm spec rn

[slim hamlet]

[junior aurora]

so you’ll have the biggest delta of good to bad

[steel ridge]

outlaw is strong and those players probably sucked

[slim hamlet]

Best part of the wowhead guides

pvp

[shut owl]

sin is mega strong on AA

[keen spruce]

when a spec is strong

u get a lotta bad players

[junior aurora]

that is subs dungeon tho

[balmy condor]

look, I don't wanna do it either

[shut owl]

they were talking about beating outlaw

[balmy condor]

but they fired all the pvp writers

[distant fox]

i haven seen a single otlaw where i thought, fuck that guy is pumpong.
sometimes the where even worse in st like wtf.

[balmy condor]

cause it wasn't worth it

[shrewd night]

I look at IC KB and it looke liks the john fucking madden meme in my head, so I jsut go back into DTB sanctuary

[slim hamlet]

Yeah but sub is OP on AA

So

Unlucky

[steel ridge]

what kind of key/rio level are we talking here?

[shut owl]

dunno, having mongo bleed agi on tree boss is pretty nice

[distant fox]

14-16s atm i havent time to play gigher and without my tank friend pugging takes so long.
2k ish.

[steel ridge]

maybe thats why

[shrewd night]

PB is lowkey insane on treeboss lmao

[slim hamlet]

and now all they're left with...

[steel ridge]

the good outlaws are beyond 2.7k and higher

[shut owl]

can recoup a lot of damage from tree, IC coming up on birds, mages, and dragon packs

[distant fox]

you cant tell me that anri meta specs are performing the same as our lovely outlaws ans dh that i see. maybe 3 metaspec players rhis season suprised me.

[ornate topaz]

I also rly like the fact we can now go 3/3 Zoldyck with DTB ❤️

[balmy condor]

well now it's out problem

[steel ridge]

you wont find any decent outlaw at 2k rating

[shut owl]

if your tank is pulling aggressively anyways

[ornate topaz]

will it be decent to play ?

[balmy condor]

2/3 only

[ornate topaz]

thank you sir

[balmy condor]

you lose too much going 3/3

[ornate topaz]

oh okay I will check the Wowhead for the builds 🙂

[slim hamlet]

but big exe dam tho

I like exe dam 😦

Even if it doesnt matter

[distant fox]

if i play miy druid full aoe and beat evey meta spec that shoudl be great at cleave or st its kinda sad 😂
lf outlaw taht does 70k overalls /w me

[steel ridge]

execute dam does matter

but 2/3 is enough

[balmy condor]

on 1 fight

[steel ridge]

the only fight that really matters right?

[balmy condor]

kurog yep

[junior aurora]

the only fight that matters is the one you’re progging on

[shrewd night]

B A S E D

[junior aurora]

and terros

[steel ridge]

i am on kurog execute hopium for reset ngl

yesterday we wiped at 4% 😮

[ornate topaz]

Will the changes make Assa more compete with Outlaw and Subtletly in terms of AOE in M+? cuz it certainly looks like

[balmy condor]

no

[ornate topaz]

how does it sim in Dungeon Slice ?

[keen spruce]

we've still got people getting yoinked off spider platform on the first stair case

[balmy condor]

changes do nothing for sin viability or output in m+

[shrewd night]

Im mad chilling, was benched for Dathea, so I get to see the madness on stream

[balmy condor]

also changes nothing for raid

[keen spruce]

couple of pulls to p3, one day they'll figure itout

[balmy condor]

sin is at a perfect equality to now

[dense herald]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[distant fox]

my assa hit 70 with 340 or so gear im doing 20k overalls i think. not bad for ignoring rhis toon
maybe i get him up to show people that meta sucks 😄

[junior aurora]

well

[ornate topaz]

the fact I will have one less button to care aobut still counts 😄

especially when I play on Steam Deck xD

[slim hamlet]

wtb this

[ornate topaz]

I don't wanna be a pain but why do you think it wont change anything? Cuz with the original M+ build we had IC + Kingsbane and no Poison bomb...now we will have poison bomb which combined with the IC should be mumch more AOE?

[balmy condor]

poison bomb requires you envenom

which requires you don't CT

which means you lose CT damage

[shut owl]

pb in aoe is copium

[balmy condor]

which means less aoe

[steel ridge]

prio dmg

copium

[balmy condor]

the M+ build loses zoldyck and kingsbane, and instead gets poison bomb, dashing, and dtb

those balance out to being roughly equal in most situations

[junior aurora]

losing zoldyck hurts yea

[steel ridge]

inb4 this is going to be thing even tho it loses 10% ST

[balmy condor]

you get the aoe back from just raw poison damage and energy from dashing

[shut owl]

prio damage is prio damage. but prio damage is not aoe

[balmy condor]

currently no top sin m+ players are even considering it

[steel ridge]

yeah you said that

[junior aurora]

yeah i dont see why you would run turbo aoe build

[steel ridge]

might still be a thing in midrange gameplay 🙂

[junior aurora]

other classes can just do it better so might as well not lose your st

[royal lantern]

seli aaaaaand?

[balmy condor]

varas, zerocool, me, oxi, endwyr said it wasn't great either I think

[steel ridge]

inb4 raging week, dungeon browser full of "wtb assa rogue"

😄

[royal lantern]

wait, according to r.io im world #45 as assassination

[balmy condor]

yes

[junior aurora]

tanks would kite before that lmao

[royal lantern]

does that make me a top m+ player

[ornate topaz]

CT is 100% CP dump in AOE situation? you never ever do envenom?

[royal lantern]

[balmy condor]

no one plays assa in m+

[balmy condor]

you envenom to maintain cttc

[royal lantern]

ssshhhhhh

[balmy condor]

but aside from that, in heavy aoe?

nah

[ornate topaz]

I do play assa in M+...I am bored of Outlaw and at the same time I am not a tryhard 😄

[balmy condor]

on 4 target you CT if it's got less than 10 seconds remaining, and considering it's a 12 second bleed

[ornate topaz]

I do max +18 keys

[balmy condor]

pretty yikes

once you get to like 6-7-8 targets

[dense herald]

is 37% critical strike too much?

[balmy condor]

you just CT

[balmy condor]

does it sim as your highest setup?

[royal lantern]

meme or real answer

[steel ridge]

now i got a goal

[shut owl]

word, I'm realm 8 somehow. I'm assuming the population is 8

[balmy condor]

okay but do it sim good

[royal lantern]

realm #3 on fking kazzak EU

jesus christ

[ornate topaz]

meanwhile me with 32% crit 😄

[royal lantern]

thats grimm

[ornate topaz]

I need to get rid of Versa 😕

[shut owl]

I'm over on hyjal so theres very few players really... but paradoxically they are in very competitive groups >~>

[steel ridge]

yeah as grim as outlaw was in S3 SL

[shrewd night]

Sims? Ravenholdt? What are you on about? We just need for you to accept your summon so we can run Maraudon for blue weapons!

[steel ridge]

i actively avoid hyjal in keys

[shut owl]

that checks out, so do I

[timber basalt]

Hyjal are either gods or dogs

No inbetween

Sometimes both at the same time

[junior aurora]

both at same time means they arent either lol

[ripe lion]

I used to play on andorhal back bc-cata, now I'm on zuljin

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor this gave me a goal, gonna actually Push m+ beyond 20keys now, so i can reach the top10 assa and act like im some badass bigbrain guy

[steel ridge]

statweights

[dense herald]

its starting to decrease a lot due to DR

[steel ridge]

37% is not in DR tho

[junior aurora]

the dr that kicks in at 40%?

[timber basalt]

DR doesn't kick in until. 40%

[peak surge]

Top gear or bust

[dense herald]

oh, okay ty guys

didn't know

[junior aurora]

dont need to think about that tho, just always sim top gear

never statweights

[dense herald]

noted, thanks

i am currently running my best gear then, ty 🙂

[steel ridge]

DRs are just to scare kids, they are not a problem

they might become a problem in Season 4, when we have massive amounts of stats

[junior aurora]

and the dr is only like 5% at first

[royal lantern]

i thought DN is the scary thing?

[steel ridge]

not gonna fall for that tryan

[royal lantern]

[junior aurora]

it is the scary thing

didnt know they could look like that tryan

[steel ridge]

curious to see what our secondaries look like down the line, it feels like we already have a good amount of stats

[ornate topaz]

sim top gear based on the simcraft export righ?

[royal lantern]

yes

[timber basalt]

For 2nd boss in jade, if you use carnage, will it add stacks?

[balmy condor]

10.0.5 Info
Wowhead Guide is Updated for all the changes. Go read that.

OUR VIABILITY IS NOT CHANGING. THESE CHANGES HAVE NOT HAD ANY MAJOR IMPACT ON OUR DAMAGE.

Again, THE DAMAGE IS THE SAME. PLEASE STOP ASKING

Raid:
Arterial sucks for single target, Kingsbane is dead except for maybe raz shields. We play Bleed DTB everywhere except for council, where we play Arterial+IC.

Mythic+:
DTB+IC seems to be the go-to. Single target is pretty good, AoE is just like it was before. Big whatever. Carnage from stealth and spam CT in big AoE. Arterial could maybe perhaps be good sometimes in a situation where you don't need the single target or maybe DTB+AP for some cleave stuff where you don't have AoE? Idk. No one recommends playing Arterial right now. It might be good on raging weeks but it's hard to justify otherwise.

PvP:
#pvp. Don't ask here. Plenty of great people in #pvp

Hopes for the future:

1. Kingsbane is horrendously down bad. Needs a pretty big buff to come back to viability

2. Arterial does not provide enough of a gain in AoE to justify the crazy (10%+) loss of boss damage in keys. Push number up please. It's a capstone that barely competes with Shrouded Suffocation or Bone Spike. It's also weird that all of our other stuff is 8 target capped, but Arterial is 5? Making Arterial 8 target won't really have much of an effect outside of academy, it's a really weird decision. There's a lot of weird stuff with this talent that honestly needs to be looked at for future balance

3. Exsang rework/removal is still on the horizon. Zold and Scent are next to go down to 2 point nodes in future patches. I personally consider this patch more of a bridge between big changes.

Spreadsheet updates soon. Have faith, don't doom, use brain. (Also probably should expect a slow mode on Tuesday/Wednesday, patch days are rough.)

[timber basalt]

I've no idea what causes it to gain stacks

[royal lantern]

direct attacks

[shut owl]

should be direct attacks/spells. I usually only see it tip over to 10 if we've got a lazy hunter/lock

[timber basalt]

So ct shouldn't add stacks either?

[shrewd night]

Have faith, don't doom, use brain.

[shut owl]

I'd imagine it probably would, its an attack?

[royal lantern]

doom

[timber basalt]

It's not direct though, it's aoe

[balmy condor]

CT does instant damage, therefore it adds a stack

any ability that deals instant damage, adds a stack

[shrewd night]

I think we should start being more heavyhanded on dooming, starting with Tryan

[balmy condor]

garrote and rupture do not

therefore they don't add stacks

[royal lantern]

yes, pls doom me

[balmy condor]

poison dots do not do instant damage, therefore no stack

melee and poison applications are instant damage, therefore stack

capiche?

[timber basalt]

Capiche

[balmy condor]

bien

[timber basalt]

Grazie mille whispyr

[balmy condor]

ogni volta amore mio

[timber basalt]

[royal lantern]

si

[agile geode]

Sin tier a

Kek

[balmy condor]

Sin A Tier

As in, sin is in a tier

Out of all of them

It’s in one

That’s for sure

[slim hamlet]

Sin is truly a spec

One of the specs of wow

[royal lantern]

its A tier
sub is S tier
outlaw is O tier

i rank by the First letter

[dark token]

Sub is b tier

Sin is a tier

Outlaw a tier

According to wowhead

[slim hamlet]

Pretty sure outlaw is D tier

dead spec

[balmy condor]

Yeah they got a 5% stamina nerf

Imagine bro

[steel ridge]

😄

[shut owl]

sin's gonna be the new meta; afterall outlaw's primary purpose is spamming tricks with their cd reduction

[brazen nimbus]

are we getting buffed/nerfed/unchanged on patch day?

[keen spruce]

is the rework deleting it

[shut owl]

something unironically stated to me today

[balmy condor]

I swear to god

[keen spruce]

this fukin guy

[brazen nimbus]

KEKW 😄

[keen spruce]

[brazen nimbus]

[balmy condor]

I did not re-write a pin from 2 weeks ago and pin a new one 20 minutes ago

[steel ridge]

after all 10.1 is supposed to drop between spring and summer

[balmy condor]

For you to ask that

[steel ridge]

which is like may?

[balmy condor]

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor what about PvP

[brazen nimbus]

[balmy condor]

It’s actually supposed to drop between spring and winter

[keen spruce]

if zoldyk goes to 2 points, and exang just refreshes garrote and rupture on cast... I would have few complaints

[keen spruce]

except that we don't do enough ST to justify our AOE mediocrity

[balmy condor]

Okay did I lie though?

[keen spruce]

[steel ridge]

not sure i understand that correctly

[slim hamlet]

I thought you laid down the cope

@balmy condor

[steel ridge]

realz has been on silent mode lately, maybe he is cooking up something good

[balmy condor]

He’s a bussy guy

[shrewd night]

[steel ridge]

he never passed up the chance to get us moist tho

[slim hamlet]

He has been cooking for a while

We about to eat good

[jade abyss]

Would be nice to extend 7cp rupture and improved garrote :0

[grim jay]

@balmy condor so did sin lose ST but gained it aswell?

[dark token]

@balmy condor so did sin dmg change????1??

[grim jay]

Just make it work like DM, but its increasing tickrate instead. That would not lower the duration aswell

[slim hamlet]

@balmy condor I heard sin got like 1k dps, does this mean we are viable now?

[cunning locust]

how do you manage cooldowns on sennarth? add timers are like 00:00, 01:37 and 03:13, do you hold for add or just spike+gar+rupt it and keep tunelling boss?

[little light]

wdym adds

[cunning locust]

big spider with cleave

[slim hamlet]

adds?

We are sin

[little light]

I never heard of them

[slim hamlet]

adds doesnt exist

only boss

[cunning locust]

oof

[little light]

xD

[steel ridge]

throw a sbs on it and a rupture/garrote and be done with it

[slim hamlet]

too much

I might look at it

that's it

[languid basin]

anyone been simming the ruby whelp trinket? i have 6 points into ST proc but not sure if i should replace my incarnate icon or controlled technique trinkets (dont have grieftorch)

[cunning locust]

my rl forces me to play outlul on this boss because of adds

[steel ridge]

LOL

[slim hamlet]

my rl told me to play sin

get fuckd

[cunning locust]

your rl > mine

[shut owl]

I told my RL I was just gonna tunnel

[steel ridge]

sennarth is basically a patchwerk fight

the small adds dont exist and the big add is kinda whatever

doesnt cost you anything to switch to it while your dots are running on the boss

[slim hamlet]

yes

it dies before dots

[cunning locust]

ye i tried to DM it and it died even before DM expired

[shut owl]

dots still on add just mean you get SbS charge and energy back 😛

why would you DM it D:

[steel ridge]

you should not do that

[cunning locust]

because they asked to send everything on add, just testing things i dunno, but ty for help, gonna justify my boss tunneling

[slim hamlet]

I vanish, box, exsang, dm, kb and shiv it

[cunning locust]

what about grieftorching it

[steel ridge]

just dont speak about it and do what is best.

no one will understand it anyway

[slim hamlet]

i dont have

😦

yep I did this

[steel ridge]

you should never ever waste a deathmark on that spider add

[slim hamlet]

Until Dathea

Where I had to ask if I could just afk kill boss

[steel ridge]

if the plattform groups are fine without you, thats what you should be doing

if they struggle to kill stuff, its more important to kill stuff

[steep hamlet]

if the add lives long enough to last a full deathmark you have bigger problems

on spidré

[celest ruin]

what boss do people usually prog next after sennarth? kurog or dath?

[simple hornet]

we found kurog alot easier but we're carrying dps, so dath a bit harder

[dark token]

Kurog if ur raid blasts dps but are monkeys mechanically

[thorn crater]

question regarding blue silk lining. does rank 3 provide more mastery or is it just a recipe difficulty decrease?

[dark token]

Dathea if ur raid is good mechanically

Difficulty increase

[thorn crater]

i see

[celest ruin]

sounds like us then

except for the dps part

[tacit oracle]

Then probably still Kurog 😸

[vapid sierra]

Kurog

Dathea is typically last before brood

Kurog/brood we’re just dps checks but now that everyone’s geared dathea/raz are harder

Dathea should of been in broods spot

[short ravine]

when playing kingsbane with echoing reprimand after the opener do i save every echoing reprimand cast to line up with kinsbane or just send it on cd?

[fleet imp]

Afaik send on cd but align with exang

[short ravine]

ok bro ty, also i read soemwhere save both shiv charges for kingsbane window but wowhead priority sayss jsut send it

[fleet imp]

Stick with the full send on shiv

Since on reset we wont play Kb

[short ravine]

oh man

could u point me in the direction of the build im suppsoed to play after reset so i can get familiar with it

[fleet imp]

Wait 1day and copy paste highest m+ player or better parsing

Works in the 99% of case 😂

[magic eagle]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[royal lantern]

or you Just check if something got updated in the pins/faq cus they do it REALLY fast

[digital gyro]

hey, coming back to rogue from wrath. Just learned that Rupture isn't CP dependant like in classic. What about Envenom?

is it fine envenoming at 3 cp?

[rare jackal]

with deeper strategm you want to envenom at 5 cp +

minus one from your max combo points

is the rule

[royal lantern]

no

its not

[rare jackal]

its not?

[royal lantern]

who told you that

its max or -1

[rare jackal]

wait nvm

im dumb

yeah

its minus 1

[royal lantern]

so 4or5 normaly, 5or6 with deeper

[royal lantern]

and rupture is CP dependandt, just not the dmg

you always follow the normal finisher rule of "max or -1" with all finishers

the only exception is the 1rupture in the raid opener, but thats because we want a max pandemic ER rupture for exsang a couple seconds later

[spice spire]

Also ER shenanigans. But yeah

[late veldt]

well ill try to squezze in a shiv or garrote to get to max, when possible

[slim hamlet]

Surv hunters aint happy

[rare jackal]

hunter have no right to be fuming

[slim hamlet]

why not

they have kinda nothing besides dmg

which they dont actually have either

[rare jackal]

yeah and rogues up until dragonflight had even less lmao

in terms of utility

[slim hamlet]

True

I mean they can have atrophic poison for all I care

not like it actually does anything

[royal lantern]

most people ignore stuff like that when they are angry

or they say SHROUD as raidutility 🙂

[rare jackal]

im gonna be honest with you chief, i have totally biased and unjustified disdain for hunters

[royal lantern]

btw, Tell those hunter that "enemy that has hunter mark has a 2% higher chance to get a critical strike" fits hunter thematicaly WAY more 🙂

[slim hamlet]

I mean

u telling me a dr poison makes sence?

[thorn fjord]

Have faith, dont doom. 🤣

[granite widget]

the pin says "damage is same" but isn't there an extra point in zoldyck available now? or is dashing scoundrel weaker?

[magic vine]

its up slightly actually, but you'll be using a diff build

[gusty mirage]

dashing scoundrel is slightly weaker

it's like a net gain of a few hundred dps I think

so like

not really noticeable at all

[thorn fjord]

Hows the warlock gearing coming along? @gusty mirage 🤣

[kind talon]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[worthy moth]

assassination rank A tomorrow?

[gusty mirage]

at what

[worthy moth]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-infinity-war-everything-avengers-gif-14066494

[rigid rain]

!logs

[worthy moth]

wait

assassination had 0 buffs?

[gusty mirage]

same ol same ol

M+ will be less work now

you can play dtb + indiscriminate carnage

so that's kinda neat ig

[magic eagle]

Did puzzle box or the interactions with the tree changes cause it to be less valuable?

[teal bloom]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[main blaze]

A week or two ago there was a pin about it

[prisma cypress]

i'm in a gamer crisis and tempted to switch specs

someone talk me out of it

[main blaze]

Do it

[prisma cypress]

i mean switching from assassination

[main blaze]

Yeah you can do it. We believe in you.

[prisma cypress]

😭

[rain oyster]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[indigo epoch]

Yeah go ahead. Go play with the other 97% of rogues

[royal lantern]

flip a coin:)

its always the best thing

cus when you get the result you DONT want, you will think "oh fuck"

and thats your answer

[shrewd night]

You'll be back in a week. So do it dummy. Spread your wings.

[indigo epoch]

Im just so put off by the pirate theme shit i cant enjoy combat anymore

Yarrrrrrrrr me mateys

[royal lantern]

outlaw has litearlly 0 pirate theme left

except MAYBE RtB lol

[indigo epoch]

O.0

[royal lantern]

it was slightly during legion, and then went away

[indigo epoch]

Pistol shot?

Come on

[shrewd night]

The fuck does dice have to do with pirates

[royal lantern]

what has "draw a pistol in a swordfight" to do with pirates? that just sounds like a dirty fight trick, you know, the theme outlaw is based on

[indigo epoch]

Buried treasure. Skull and bones. Broadsides

[shrewd night]

Don't mind him epoxe, he is drunk

[teal bloom]

Pirates be dabbling in gambling

[indigo epoch]

Meh. Im an old fudd. I miss combat.

[royal lantern]

we all do, but for different reasons

atleast combat was not the #1 spec for most PvE content most of the time

[shrewd night]

[magic vine]

you should be able to give yourself a pegleg (-50% movespeed) for better rtb odds

[teal bloom]

[gusty mirage]

to outlaw?

they melted down over a 5% stamina nerf bro

[dreamy gull]

https://i.imgur.com/fpmW1FY.png

so uh

what do i do now

[royal lantern]

reroll DH

[gusty mirage]

raid and do dungeons for gear

realize that world of warcraft is a hamster wheel you can never escape

[dreamy gull]

it cant be as bad as diablo

[royal lantern]

serious answer: if you want gear, do a full heroic dungeon rotation, then mythic dungeons, then maybe slowly start m+ or normal raids and it works up

[gusty mirage]

I quit the game for like 7 years

and here I am

6 years later

[royal lantern]

he doesnt know

HE DOESNT KNOW

[magic vine]

you can get some easy gear out of elemental storms as well

[prisma cypress]

outlaw or sub, either one

i already play sub in keys

[gusty mirage]

true I forgot about that

[royal lantern]

sub fulltime then

outlaw is cringe

[gusty mirage]

if you ask any of the 11 year olds in outlaw their spec is DEAD UNPLAYABLE

[royal lantern]

atleast sub is a rogue

[gusty mirage]

come reset

[prisma cypress]

yikes

[gusty mirage]

[magic vine]

359 base and can upgrade a piece or two to 385 each week (you can also turn the 385 into tier after reset)

[terse orchid]

Agreed but for different reasons

[shrewd night]

[gusty mirage]

5% STAMINA NERF

[verbal mantle]

[dreamy gull]

did the uh

patch thing

happen

yet

[magic vine]

tomorrow

[royal lantern]

2days

smh my head

[indigo epoch]

I know the sim numbers dont change much. But i feel like AP on the keys that dont have mega pulls should be an improvement.

But im trash so idk

[royal lantern]

you wont play AP 99% of the time rn

and like, its 5targets, it wont really help with giga pulls lol

[indigo epoch]

What you mean to say is "you shouldnt play" haha.

[limber monolith]

Hi all, what are the best phials and weapon consumables to use as an Assa rogue in raid and M+? The FAQ does not give this info anymore

[indigo epoch]

Im bad. I do what i want

[royal lantern]

vers, crit rune

same as always

[indigo epoch]

Sim it

[magic vine]

well, its still simming better on 8-target than dtb

[limber monolith]

Awesome, ty

[gusty mirage]

we have to beta test it for you first

smh my head

[royal lantern]

thanks for that

didnt had to play RLP with whelps spawning explosive

NA doing its job

[gusty mirage]

neither did I

[indigo epoch]

Whats next week? Better i hope.

Explosive sucks.

[terse orchid]

fortified bolstering tho

[cursive frost]

So reading the pins it looks like we are hopeful of a rework in the near future, maybe for 10.1?

[royal lantern]

assa is in a weird spot rn

its tuned good, so its not a dead spec

[royal lantern]

but it still has many problems that the spec now had for a longer time, and people get frustrated with it

[terse orchid]

What problems?

[royal lantern]

+many people that only look at HC logs telling you that assa is op and needs nerfs

[cursive frost]

It’s debatable that our ST should be even higher to compensate for our aoe

[royal lantern]

can only do Single target OR AoE, you will always lock yourself into 1 specific thing and will then suck absolute balls at the other

when you go full ST, you are not even exceptional

and right now, not even better then sub, who also does aoe better

[celest drift]

DTB+IC in tyrannical and AP+IC in Fortified? can it be simple as that or nah?

[terse orchid]

Huh, I feel like IC+KB feels great for both aoe and st in tyrannical weeks

But I'm not high end 🤷

[royal lantern]

oh, and the fact that assa for m+ was the backburner for more or less forever now, wich is frustraiting cus quiet some people here enjoy the assa m+ playstyle

[celest drift]

just using it in raging week will be giga sadge

[royal lantern]

the problem is, outlaw and sub both do more aoe AND ST in keys

assa still works

like, i got my 2,7k as assa only, its not giga high, but its something

[cursive frost]

2.7 is solid

[royal lantern]

but it would be way more easy as outlaw or sub cus both just do aoe and cleave better in keys with less work

im not saying "omg assa dead" cus its a good spec rn, and actually 1 of the better specs for m+ if you measure it against the overall

but for raids, its weakness is still way to big when its strenght is not a real thing, and for m+ its just general frustration that playing assa more or less can be summed up with "but why not outlaw and do more for less effort?"

[cursive frost]

I have found a lot of use for it in raid, I love being put on boss for fights like dathea, diurna

And just pumping boss dam

[royal lantern]

ye, but the problem there is, you can be dps dummy assa and pull your 16m boss dmg, or you can be a DH and pull 14M boss dmg and also 11m dmg on adds

who did more for the raid?

[cursive frost]

I even get better use out of it on eran because our raid just destroys the adds as soon as they pop

[celest drift]

2,7k here too. The big wall is ahead of us tho. You need to chain pull like crazy on some keys (looking at you HoV). No stealth = no giga garote.

[royal lantern]

(made up numbers btw, but you understand the concept)

[celest drift]

so yeah, it's still enjoyable, but a big pain in the ass if you really want to crank the keys

[royal lantern]

and like, "stay boss and do dmg" only really works because rogue overall is tuned higher

[subtle tundra]

until like 23-24 you dont have to go risky

[royal lantern]

what will you do when assa is only mediocre again? still say "i will stay boss"?

[cursive frost]

It’s not rewarding enough on the meters for the execution needed to pull it off

In m+

Well that’s why I play outlaw too

I haven’t put the effort in to learn sub, assa is my favorite to play in raid

[heavy warren]

i want silence without lose dmg(

[slow marsh]

Dang bro same but 10 and then I quit a 2nd time and ...

[indigo epoch]

Hotel california up in this bitch.

Yall aint leavin

[jade abyss]

Most annoying things for me are tanks that doesnt let you reastealth in m+ not even before bosspull and grievious spiteful

[indigo epoch]

I hate when i get tanks that pull 2 adds. Wait until they are 50% then pull 3 more. Happens all the time. I dont get it. Why not just grab all 5 at once.

But im only 2k io so what do i know.

[normal mist]

Same experience at 2.3

[gusty mirage]

you'll see that at all levels

and it's because they're fucking dumb

[marble hemlock]

maybe cause their CDs arent ready

so they wnana hit smth

to build rage/lower CDs

before they pull bigger

[upper crown]

Is kingsbane dejj tomorrow?

[thorn fjord]

Unfortunately

[upper crown]

[spice spire]

Just like me on god

[thorn fjord]

We killed ice spider yesterday

Fuck that boss

[spice spire]

Huge

Ice spider seems both fun and hellacious all at once

[thorn fjord]

Nothing about it was fun for me tbh

[spice spire]

Now it’s on to outlaw.boss

[thorn fjord]

Im still playing Sin for Grimtotem as it stands

But we'll see

[fading adder]

on spider now, we've done prog with 3 different tanks in the last week. really set us back

[nocturne current]

Spider's fun.

[fading adder]

spider has not been enjoyable, but less cause of the fight, and more from our tank rage quitting like a child and making us swap people around

i really liked playing sin on it though. bit better than outlaw

[thorn fjord]

Im not a fan of being almost perma snared then having to ice skate and shimmy around the entire fight

its just not my cup of tea

[solemn marsh]

Been practicing sub a lot recently, but still love sin. Is DTB still good for raid/keys (tyran) after tomorrow? Just KB deed?

[thorn fjord]

im happy its over with

[nocturne current]

Ice skate how? I barely touch ice.

You can climb the stairs for free as Assa.

[thorn fjord]

Its not the stairs that annoy me

[fading adder]

i will say grapple is the goat for moving around on the fight

personally easier than step

[thorn fjord]

I wasnt going to play pirate on that fight

[nocturne current]

I just step to the boss when he's halfway to the stairs then step again to someone else already on top.

Problem solved.

[thorn fjord]

I was just taking gate to half way up then step to range

And chill behind rock for pull

[nocturne current]

There's a little edge on the right side of the stairs.

[fading adder]

rock gaming is giga sketch

[nocturne current]

I sit there for a really long time until boss is almost on top.

[thorn fjord]

You just can’t use the rock on the last pull… rest are ez

[nocturne current]

We made it to last phase without warlock but......

Wasn't pretty

[thorn fjord]

That sounds awful

[nocturne current]

It was

[thorn fjord]

The lock handling gates was getting so triggered

[nocturne current]

Someone had to reroll warlock, we didn't had one since expansion started

[thorn fjord]

Dude went off on one of his parents mid pull and forgot to mute and we were all like woah dude chill out lol

[fading adder]

what sucks is that warlock in general doesn't do well on that fight either and they all get pissy

[thorn fjord]

He’s like I fucking hate this boss I’m so sick of it blah blah lol

[slim hamlet]

So I made an "objective fun tier list as a sin main" tier list

What u guys think

[subtle tundra]

i have played 8 specs

[slim hamlet]

wack

[velvet haven]

I cannot find fun in sub

[subtle tundra]

maybe 9

[slim hamlet]

Thought u were gamer varas

not nooby varas

[subtle tundra]

yea i like to play well what i play

and i dont like playing a lot of wow

[slim hamlet]

its least fun rogue spec

Still a rogue spec tho

[velvet haven]

We can pretend it's not and I'd be ok with it

[thorn fjord]

You got Frost and Unholy DK mixed up @slim hamlet

[subtle tundra]

its more fun than assa for me rn

[slim hamlet]

nah

uhdk is sleeper

[thorn fjord]

riiiight

[velvet haven]

If i could play assa in all content i would

[subtle tundra]

you sure can

[velvet haven]

Unfortunately i need to play outlaw for keys

[thorn fjord]

I'm activating sub this week

[subtle tundra]

are you pushing 25?

[velvet haven]

Because it's tolerable

[slim hamlet]

If I could be top meta with sin in all content I would play it 100% of my game time

[velvet haven]

I'm pushing 21 atm but I'd like to.

Gotta find a steady group

[subtle tundra]

21 is not needing outlaw

lol

its barely above weekly

[slim hamlet]

still top 1% of gamers

more

[subtle tundra]

its not top 1%

doing 21s

[slim hamlet]

I mean

it is

[velvet haven]

Ur right its above 1% atm.

Lol

[slim hamlet]

u get much more than 2700 for doing 21's

[velvet haven]

But as i said, I'd like to push higher. So learning outlaw ahead of time for when it's most needed is more important

[slim hamlet]

xdd

meanwhile NA

[thorn fjord]

im only 2420

[slim hamlet]

outlaw gameplay will suck a lot 10.0.5

just warning u

[thorn fjord]

but i like them blazeit numbers

[slim hamlet]

Try on ptr real quick before u learn it

[thorn fjord]

It wont be THAT bad

[slim hamlet]

I mean it sucks

[gray crest]

Could play sub instead of outlaw. Won't have to get a whole new gear set cause sub is crit mastery

[slim hamlet]

giga

imo

[velvet haven]

The outlaw changes in .05 are survivability changes last i looked no?

[thorn fjord]

Already have my sub m+ stuff set up just incase

[prisma cypress]

i enjoy sub in keys

[velvet haven]

Maybe there was 1 damage nerf

[slim hamlet]

Yea i prob just play sub if sin doesnt feel good next reset

usually sin feels good on forti at least

[slim hamlet]

yea the dmg doesnt matter

its the gameplay

[velvet haven]

I just haven't been able to enjoy sub since like mop

[thorn fjord]

Rotation isnt changing though

You just get 1 less cp from fth

[slim hamlet]

which makes it even worse

[fading adder]

i'm confused as to what the difference in outlaw is next week

[slim hamlet]

clicking finisher on 5cp

[thorn fjord]

fth nerf

[radiant quail]

there is no difference to the gameplay

[slim hamlet]

Well no because u just act like nothing changed

[thorn fjord]

You'll still more times than not land at 6cp tho shouldnt be too crazy

[slim hamlet]

but that means u finish on -2cp

[gray crest]

I am a strong hater of sub's double dance and <1min dance CDs, but this iteration of sub is very fun

[thorn fjord]

think they were saying its like a 1.5% decrease

[fading adder]

so theres 1 or 2 more globals after FTH doesn't mean its bad or terrible lol

[slim hamlet]

Which feels just as weird as clicking dots early for exsang

[thorn fjord]

I dont think it'll be as bad for HO as it will be for KiR

[slim hamlet]

u get 4 from fth and 1 from the talent that gives 1cp after finisher

right?

[slim hamlet]

Kir will be sad

Think so too

[thorn fjord]

Yeah you'll prob just get an extra ambush at the 5

or you could prob just dispatch if 2pc is up

We'll see

I dont expect it to be AWFUL

But yeah Sub kit is ready to go

[fading adder]

i'm collecting more mastery gear

got the mast heavy ring out of hov yesterday finally

[prisma cypress]

anyone considering sub in raid or just keys?

[thorn fjord]

Your OL set should still suffice enough for you to be able to just play Sub

[fading adder]

just keys, i mostly play sin in raid

[thorn fjord]

Other rogue in my guild is convinced he cant play sub with his current mastery

I keep telling him to quit being a pussy and try it

[fading adder]

other rogue in my guild is outlaw on trick

doesn't play sin or sub cause "its too hard"

[thorn fjord]

hate to see it

[fading adder]

i don't know. i can't convince him to swap

if you can play outlaw you can play sub/sin

i think they all around the same difficulty

[wary ice]

Imagine having other rogues in your raid

I have like 45 daggers now

[thorn fjord]

Our other rogue usually rides the bench

He's a returning player who left for like 2 years so he's having a hard time

[spice spire]

Yeah rude

[thorn fjord]

They tried getting him in last night on spider prog

but dude was just having a really hard time... ive been helping him though

[arctic socket]

https://tenor.com/view/tag-gif-21133325

[urban mantle]

I can use same stats/items for Mythic Plus and Raids?

[thorn fjord]

Yeah

[scenic kelp]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[vagrant tapir]

Deciding to play around with sin a bit - with respect to Deathmark, does it duplicate the dots on the target at the time it's cast, or does it just apply a secondary ticking stack of each bleed for the duration that Deathmark is active, applying that second stack of whatever bleed is applied at any point during the deathmark duration?

aka; are you not concerned about refreshing your bleeds during deathmark, or is there a snapshotting component where overwriting the bleed on the target when deathmark was applied is something you are paying attention to

[teal bloom]

It doesn't matter when the rupture and garrote were applied. It's dynamic so no snapshotting.

Reapplying bleed during deathmark doesn't change anything, still 2x bleed

[vagrant tapir]

gotcha

[strange python]

Same rules with empowered Garrote still apply. If you refresh it during DM it will apply it with the duplicated normal garrote

[teal bloom]

Yeah always let improved garrote and exsanged garrote/rupture run out before using normal garrote/rupture

[slow marsh]

it's a 1.5% nerf but they found a 0.5-1% increase with apl changes so really it amounts to pretty much nothing

[vagrant tapir]

🤢

imagine not learning every spec for every class you play

[fading adder]

i'm sure he'd be fine...but just doesn't swap?

[spice surge]

Not learning outlaw is fine, because as we know its cringe

[slim hamlet]

most outlaw players dont want to swap

[strange python]

Outlaw OTPs are bizarrely common and it's shocking that higher end guilds dont have issues with it

[spice surge]

Why would they though, unless outlaw is particularly awful its just better to keep somebody playing what they enjoy rather than force them into something they dont

And theres usually more pressing issues of people playing poorly rather than somebody playing the "wrong" spec (unless its the one playing the "wrong" spec playing poorly ofc)

[slim hamlet]

I think there was a reason he clarified "higher end"

[lament warren]

they do

[spice surge]

Well whats higher end here

[thorn fjord]

My guild has issues with it currently

[lament warren]

us 50

and below

or even just hof

[strange python]

Because outlaw's bizarre ability to never be terrible is rare among pure DPS specs, rogues are in absolutely no short supply, and if a warlock was an aff OTP they'd have had a hard time between Nathria and dragonfligjt

[slim hamlet]

dont u mean rogues ARE in short supply

[fading adder]

there was also all the OTP from 8.3 from hunter.

[lament warren]

guilds do run into issues recruiting reliable good multispec rogue players

[strange python]

I mean we're HoF. We have an outlaw otp. There's...15? or so outlaw OTPs in the US HoF guilds

[fading adder]

i do find it weird that there aren't that many rogue

[spice surge]

Because what i said applies pretty much up until you get to like echo levels

[lament warren]

my guild is sometimes hof (kekw) and no outlaw otp and told me when recruiting that they have issues finding rogues who multispec

[strange python]

Maybe. I can see who apped to our guild (including some people from here that I had to immediately recommend against) that would be better than our outlaw otp

[slim hamlet]

I think it was a video from Preach "legacy of rogue" or something, where he explained how many came and went on rogue

Old af video by now

but pretty interesting

[strange python]

Rogues are, on average, just okay in raid content. And have been since legion. This patch is a huge outlier

[lament warren]

ye i’m only playing it bc it’s good

[slim hamlet]

I always choose a class I enjoy and then play what spec is best

[lament warren]

rogue is also usually harder than other specs for less reward

rogue relies heavily on thematics and niche

[slim hamlet]

Unless its really close then i play the most fun

[strange python]

Also the "rogue key god" thing is usually based on stuns rather than damage which isn't particularly fun, and isn't required outside the top end. This is also different this tier

[lament warren]

they killed sub niche in uldir

[slim hamlet]

sub still has funnel no?

[strange python]

No

[lament warren]

lmao

[slim hamlet]

compared to most classes

[fading adder]

not the same

[strange python]

Not even a little

[slim hamlet]

i mean idfk what they used to have

[lament warren]

they shifted all of sub’s damage into builders

[strange python]

Evis damage is too small

[lament warren]

instead of finishers

[slim hamlet]

but how can u tell be evis on every 2nd gcd isnt funnel?

[spice surge]

Very minor funnel ye, but nothing compared to funnel specs like frost mage

[lament warren]

because evis does no damage

[strange python]

Because evis isn't that big

[slim hamlet]

just because it aint as strong

doesnt make it not funnel?

[dreamy gull]

yeah

[strange python]

It's bad funnel

[lament warren]

destro warlock rof funnel is infinitely stronger

[dreamy gull]

eviscerate is quite disappointing

[slim hamlet]

well who the fuck has funnel

[spice surge]

Its only minor compared to actual ST

[fading adder]

its not the same as say frost mage funnel