assassination

[spice spire]

Shadow step necessary

Dragons are also trolls occasionally

[toxic burrow]

That's where the tears comes from. He is the type of guy that will Lifegrip you into a horrible situation if we're not being serious. Also, may you never encounter him in LFR, a place where he is an all-out devil.

[spice spire]

Yeah him and the other 23 people I que into on my bdk

[drifting cloud]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=109599/neural-silencer youre welcome

[spice spire]

I challenge my trolls. I don’t run away.

[stiff garden]

Pretty sure id get the boot if I were to ever wipe the raid cause I wasnt able to be gripped

[drifting cloud]

if you need to get gripped as a rogue you probably fucked up 3 times before that situation happened

[toxic burrow]

Here's the thing. If you fuck up, he presses that Lifegrip before you even get to process your mistake. It is worth not neutralizing it just because he's got those quick Lifegrip fingers.

[thorn fjord]

I get pi when the uh dk is late

[stiff garden]

The only thing Im worried about is being Pavloved here. Ill press Shadowstep every Grip without thinking about it

[thorn fjord]

😑

[spice spire]

Banned

I remove the buff to send a message

[toxic burrow]

The DK: damn it. Someone slashed my tires again?! I'll be on later.

[velvet haven]

guys I've officially taken a #1 parse

In healing

[stiff garden]

Congratz!

10.7k???

[velvet haven]

ty, I chugged hard.

[toxic burrow]

Lol.

[thorn fjord]

Spamming ohial on cd

[velvet haven]

for mythic

if the fight died like 8 seconds sooner i woulda 99'd (actual dps)

[toxic burrow]

Kind of scared. I actually placed second in my guild on H Council as sin. Not sure how since we have a lot of better aoers.

[velvet haven]

im doing that as well.

[spice spire]

Ct go brr ig

[velvet haven]

i forgot to aggressively cloak 1 mark in that fight

[toxic burrow]

The beauty of cloak.

[velvet haven]

I do less damage in aoe as Outlaw

in raid

I don't know what I do wrong tbh

ig sustaining bleeds is just second nature and zoldyk carries the rest

[true rapids]

is this the pref timing or do you hold pb for a min and lineup with 2nd dm/vanish in the cases where you dont have a 6 min fight?

[crisp badger]

whats better wound poison or instant?

[true rapids]

wound is strictly pvp

[velvet haven]

and we dont have instant as ass

[crisp badger]

word, wasnt sure if 4pc changed it

[spice spire]

That’s where brain power comes in.
It depends highly on fight timer

[velvet haven]

nah if DTB

[spice spire]

If you’re sub 6, it’s lineup at 4

Ideally you hit all your casts and lineup where possible

[velvet haven]

we using empower poison thing and deadly

[spice spire]

Amplifying

[velvet haven]

that one

yea

ty

[true rapids]

im bad at brain power

[spice spire]

He just like me on god

[velvet haven]

that's why we're exsan haters

not enough dopamine for brain function

[spice spire]

No man

[stiff garden]

We should have a bot game here. Bot tells you a random fight length, whoever gets all Box casts correct first wins

[spice spire]

We love Exsang (imma play it wrong tho because am ape)

[balmy condor]

[drifting cloud]

26 min fight go!

[balmy condor]

how do you react to seal fate

[velvet haven]

hello whispyr how r u

[balmy condor]

I'm feeling incredibly queer today thank you for asking

[spice spire]

[velvet haven]

Naisu

[stiff garden]

0, 4, 8, 12, 16, 19, 22, 25?

[velvet haven]

u like my #1 parse?

kinda pog tbh

having 10% leech OP

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-i-dont-even-know-who-you-are-marvel-gif-15769006

[velvet haven]

vibe

[drifting cloud]

quake did you go mythic yet

[velvet haven]

was just meming about my #1 ranked healing parse

[balmy condor]

oh

yeah

I don't got time to follow the leaderboards

[spice spire]

We literally killed eggnog tonight

[drifting cloud]

poggers in the chat

[spice spire]

Got the ring first try (because everyone else got it already)

[velvet haven]

thats ok i dont follow themnormally either it was just funny I had #1 council HPS parse for ass rogue

[spice spire]

I’m a rat for it too

[drifting cloud]

everyone else?? no shot

[crisp badger]

btw earlier i mispoke not wound poisont

instant vs deadly? in DTB

for ST w/ 4 pc

[velvet haven]

I couldn't see us ever using instant

[spice spire]

Evokers, dh, lock, other rogue

[teal bloom]

Deadly is just better instant

[velvet haven]

deadly is instant

with a dot

lol

[drifting cloud]

ret pala, enh shaman

hunter (minor)

[wind condor]

First night on sennarth and good lord it’s weird trying to Time all my shit

[spice spire]

Other rogue got it last night on the heroic reclear that I didn’t show up to because Val wanted to spend time together

So in reality, she got mexthe pogchampion drop

Always lucky ig

[drifting cloud]

corrupt lootcouncil smh

avoid raids to get better ilvl loot

[spice spire]

Real

[drifting cloud]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/935989994735169546/1023888917528854568/caption.gif

[teal bloom]

[velvet haven]

I just didn't roll for it until ppl here yelled at me for not

dub tho waited out and got speed on it too

[subtle tundra]

Buddy I am clearing hc with guild but I don't participate in any of the loot things so I get none. Now I have to be given mythic loot

[spice spire]

The longest con known to man

[subtle tundra]

Well I just hate masterlooter

[spice spire]

Tbh I hate master loot too

[drifting cloud]

are you a personal loot enjoyer

[spice spire]

I spend way too much time going over loot reasoning

[subtle tundra]

My guild also banks loot for after the raid

And it's an optional raid

[drifting cloud]

still?

[subtle tundra]

So after we clear I just leave

Cba

[wind condor]

Second ever raid vault I had it in my vault and took NORMAL tier gloves instead for 2p

Decision haunts me to this day

[fading rover]

random question. . . how do you get to antoran wastes?

[drifting cloud]

other than getting summoned it has a prequest

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/argus

[hollow helm]

!logs

[crisp badger]

is dtb viable in m+

compared to carnage?

[steel ridge]

sure

Next reset you can play both

[vestal abyss]

I wonder how many will switch to dtb+ic ..

[subtle tundra]

All

Cause kb is not good at all

[slow marsh]

Do people still use wowprog or did wcl take over for recruiting

[toxic burrow]

Er... Is it not good after the patch due to the odd path? Or does it feel lackluster even now?

[royal lantern]

kb got somewhat hard carried by its path

[slow marsh]

The pathing

Yeah

[toxic burrow]

Gotcha.

[royal lantern]

now it shares a path with DtB, and the new path heavy favors dtb by default

[slow marsh]

Also sharing a node with dtb is just silly cuz why

[royal lantern]

tbh, many people asked for that

better solition than " we give dtb so many skillpoints as a req. that you can never take dtb and kb togheter"

[slow marsh]

There's so many other ways to do it that make more sense in like 3 ways off the top of my head

[toxic burrow]

Because they needed proper justification for not letting folks do Kb+DTB, so they made it a choice. :<

[subtle tundra]

Zoldyck carried it

[royal lantern]

i mean, they can just buff KB dmg if it ends Up seeing no play

[subtle tundra]

And it also didn't compete with dtb by itself

[slow marsh]

They could

It still doesn't solve weird pathing we have now

[subtle tundra]

For st yes but for m+ it will never be good enough

[toxic burrow]

I used to love KB back in Legion, but I dunno. It just feels weak to me right now.

[slow marsh]

Left side is heavy single target nature damage stuff and then random 4t shiv that amps bleeds as the capstone

Makes no sense

[subtle tundra]

It has to be absurd to be good in m+

[royal lantern]

but kb rn does more dmg then legion kb?

like, legion assa dmg was "lol poison bomb"

[toxic burrow]

It just feels like it isn't as significant compared to just running dtb for me though.

[slow marsh]

Cuz it's not

[gusty mirage]

I mean dtb is also automatically better in any cleave situations too

And aoe

So even if they giga buff it’s damage

[toxic burrow]

Hence the meh feeling.

[slow marsh]

Yeah dtb is better at what KB wants to do than KB

[gusty mirage]

At most it’ll be competitive with dtb in ST unless we’re talking an omega insane buff (lol)

After they nerfed us repeatedly, I doubt we see any buffs to anything

[slow marsh]

We are destined to be mid

[gusty mirage]

Nah wait until 10.1

When they overcorrect even further and nerf sub and outlaw

For no reason

[toxic burrow]

So many folks begged for us to be nerfed in other classes. Now it is our time to have Blizz give others the nerf hammer.

[slow marsh]

And then we scale and back on top baby

[royal lantern]

as if outlaw is allowed to be bad for once lol

[slow marsh]

Outlaw has been bad

Recently

[gusty mirage]

“Overperforming in m+”

Kek

[oak sky]

overperforming in m+

[gusty mirage]

Meanwhile destro locks on those big pulls are doing like 900k dps

Fucking

KEK

[oak sky]

is that why im probably outlaw for 3 bosses in a row?

[slow marsh]

Good forbid they nerf destro

[royal lantern]

first they should fix tank/healer balance

[gusty mirage]

Nah they’ll just nerf healing again

And then aura buff resto Druid for no reason

[royal lantern]

but wait, thats a absolute shitshow aswell and gets full ignored

[subtle tundra]

Sub is fun (big numbers are cool)

[toxic burrow]

Haven't even seen a destro yet. Still running into demos all the time.

Waiting for the moment an Affliction lock joins the crew.

[slow marsh]

How big are our numbers now I still don't see them

[gusty mirage]

The rogue class tree needs to be reworked

Desperately

[slow marsh]

I mean

[oak sky]

always has

[royal lantern]

i said that since day 1

[slow marsh]

It's almost like it should've been on initial leak

[oak sky]

fw is a problem

[royal lantern]

remember doomer tryan on DF alpha

[oak sky]

no utility choice is a problem

[grim jay]

Someone said the S word

[gusty mirage]

FW is indeed a problem

Pathing is another problem

[royal lantern]

scaling?

[grim jay]

Righty

[toxic burrow]

Empower ER again!

[gusty mirage]

It’s just weird to see how quick other classes caught up to us lol

[slow marsh]

I just remember seeing other class trees and being immediately jelly of their options

I haven't looked since

[oak sky]

maybe paladin is worse

thats it tho

or monk

monk is pretty beans

[grim jay]

I mean, many got substantial buffs while we got nerfs, look at UH DK for example

[toxic burrow]

Wait... other classes get to move their base class tree points around? What in tarnation?

[strange python]

Eranog ring simming as 2.4k as sin, 2.9k as sub, 3.5k as outlaw. Jesus.

[gusty mirage]

Yeah that’s apparently a thing

[strange python]

Incoming loot council it to the monk

[oak sky]

wdym moving your point from master poisoner to blackjack is very meaningful oxi

[royal lantern]

they did fast changes in the first 2weeks, and then just stopped, then mages/dk/dh got tier set and turned out that they all stomp on rogue in all content and nothing happend since then

[oak sky]

well unholy like

got buffed

[royal lantern]

oh, warlock aswell

cus ofc its warlock

[gusty mirage]

Nerf assassination more than the other 2 btw

Very justified

[strange python]

Do we think rogues would get as many buffs as warriors do Tuesday if the situations were reversed?

[slow marsh]

How dare we hit the ground running knowing how to play our spec

[strange python]

Cause personally, I don't

[gusty mirage]

No

[late veldt]

We are the "beginner spec" according to everyone

[royal lantern]

spec can only do full st in raid situations, no raid cleave, no raid aoe, more nerfs then the others

[toxic burrow]

Beginner? . _.

[royal lantern]

thats sub rn

[oak sky]

i dont think anyone says that

[gusty mirage]

Outlaw was dogshit for all of season 3

[oak sky]

because nobody plays rogue

[slow marsh]

Yeah everyone who doesn't play rogue says that

[gusty mirage]

They knew it was under tuned

[strange python]

I also think the sin aura needs could be reverted and it wouldn't break anything

[gusty mirage]

And did nothing about it

[royal lantern]

sub litearlly plays itself rn

[gusty mirage]

For 4 months

[strange python]

A lot of outlaw OTPs (super prevalent in US hof guilds) say this too

[grim jay]

Thats just a relic torch getting passed between ol and sin

[late veldt]

Well i see it in god forbid tier-lists and other rogue guides on youtube

[strange python]

Or at least repeat the meme enough that people believe it

[gusty mirage]

Assassination was dogshit on SL release, legit borderline unplayable

[royal lantern]

dude, the general opinion of rogue is still that sub is some gigabrain 2000000IQ spec lol

[gusty mirage]

Took them 4 months to fix it

[oak sky]

there are no hard wow specs

ill never change my take

[slow marsh]

Outlaw say assassination is easy thinking they don't just sit there and press ambush pistol shot ambush pistol shot

[strange python]

I've played in...7 US HoF guilds since BFA? Every single one has thought that sin is easy and bad the entire time. They all think outlaw is hard and the only strong spec.

[gusty mirage]

And they fixed it by throwing 51% aura buffs at the spec, added a passive from ages ago, and reworked TWO covenant abilities

To make it good

[green juniper]

Hello folks, I’ve started this game 17 days ago.. this is my page and i really don’t know which talents to run or what to do to improve in any ways.. lf tutors 😦 https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cbXGr2MZKv5datckwiyfPN feel like doing less dps than my ilvl

[gusty mirage]

And then next tier? Got outshined easily until they giga juiced frost shards

[oak sky]

i wish they would give up on sepsis already

[slow marsh]

"good"

[strange python]

Start with the faq

[oak sky]

sort of a side point

but

[grim jay]

I have never heard anyone saying outlaw is hard ever tbf

[royal lantern]

yes

[slow marsh]

I wish they'd just make sepsis 1 min already

[oak sky]

its removable

[slow marsh]

It is

[oak sky]

ghostly is fine in that slot for outlaw

sbs is fine in that slot for sin

they can figure out sub

idc

[gusty mirage]

I can’t recall anyone playing night fae for sepsis ever

No one picked night fae and went WOW THIS IS SO COOL

[slow marsh]

For like 2 seconds in ptr

[late veldt]

[oak sky]

flag was sort of sick until we played it for a year and a half

[gusty mirage]

Bring back old flag

[oak sky]

cap

[toxic burrow]

I wish they'd give us a brez already.

[gusty mirage]

The one that was actually a dps loss to use

[novel arrow]

Dude it's time for Sepsis next week

[oak sky]

utility is the least of our problems

[slow marsh]

Don't do it

[strange python]

Sepsis was insane for season 4 sludgefist wtf

[oak sky]

also just go engineering

its really not complicated

[novel arrow]

Dude imagine. Sepsis. Free Garrote!

😮

[gusty mirage]

Yeah

Did it feel cool?

[strange python]

Yes

[gusty mirage]

Did it?

[oak sky]

stabs likes big numbers

[strange python]

Better than flag

[oak sky]

so it was cool

[gusty mirage]

You pressed it twice

[slow marsh]

Like they finally made sepsis do what it was supposed to (proc imp gar) and we still don't take it that's how bad it is

[strange python]

I fucking hate flag.

Flag is a cursed dogshit ability

[gusty mirage]

[toxic burrow]

I just want it to rub in a guild paladin's face. Also, stupid paladins getting brez as well...

[gusty mirage]

I mean sepsis is a choice mode so it’s a non issue

[steel ridge]

Ah i see we are at the rogue is bad stage

[slow marsh]

Tbh that tilted me that I cried about it all last tier that it should proc imp gar and then now it does and we don't care

[gusty mirage]

Just leave it for the 4 people who think it’s neat

[oak sky]

its what they might call bloat

maybe some pruning is in order

[strange python]

Tbh the spec tree is okay-ish, I just want poisons buffed back up after the unneeded nerf. The class tree though. That thing is a fucking catastrophe.

[gusty mirage]

I feel like I’ve been here before

[royal lantern]

"assa is so easy" and then the dmg spread for outlaw is "doesnt matter what you use, just Bf and spam abilitys, they all do same dmg lol"

[toxic burrow]

What? No, no. We're at the "sin is the beginner spe" phase.

[slow marsh]

I do wonder what it'd be if we got flag instead of sepsis in that choice node.

[oak sky]

the spec tree is indeed okay ish

[strange python]

Tea, dance, and ER are all incredibly feelbad capstones.

[slow marsh]

Probs still take sbs for lethal dose and cleave and cp efficiency

[gusty mirage]

We’d still take sbs for the fatal dose stack

Unlucky

[slow marsh]

But it'd be more interesting than stepsis

[oak sky]

well

flag is a 1.5min

lines up with exsang

[strange python]

I do not like any of the class tree capstones.

[oak sky]

so we play mfd to maximize flag stacks

[steel ridge]

Get lost

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

and then snapshot into our exsang

[royal lantern]

same

[gusty mirage]

I mean he’s not wrong

[oak sky]

wait ive seen this one before

[slow marsh]

Wait a second

Snapshot flag?

Never

[gusty mirage]

Wait

I have an idea for 10.1 tier set

[oak sky]

1.5min flag felt better than obedience flag

[gusty mirage]

They could make deathmark apply exsang

[slow marsh]

GOD NO PLEASE DONT

[royal lantern]

rogue having all 4 covenant abilitys is such a giant "idk what to put in those spots" thing

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

we ended up with 3 typically boring things and 1 thing thats only cool in cleave

[gusty mirage]

It exsangs the duplicated bleed

[strange python]

Spending energy reduces the cooldowj of exsang. Everyone loves dynamic cdr.

[gusty mirage]

Someone hire me

Right now

[subtle tundra]

Imagine if next tier set is low aoe and we don't get anything else for aoe

And we lose 4p

[oak sky]

no they would never do that

[subtle tundra]

Would be such a blizz move

[novel arrow]

So are we going DTB and Shiv spec? Or we still doing sbs ?

[gusty mirage]

Nah bro they fixed it with aoe shiv

[royal lantern]

and the 1thing is not even played for aoe situations now

[gusty mirage]

Legit something no one fucking asked for

[strange python]

I hope next tier set is "your mutilate does 600% more damage" just to make m+ players mad.

[oak sky]

yeah i kinda really dislike it tbh

[slow marsh]

Yeah

[oak sky]

like

low energy builder

when we already play tea

and blindside

wheeeee

[slow marsh]

La,y blizz design at its finest. Just recycle last tier's 2p they'll be fine

[gusty mirage]

Nah Sbs is sick

[royal lantern]

and its behind a node that makes mutilate stronger

[gusty mirage]

Not having deathspike is toxic

[oak sky]

i always say i only like sbs for cleave

and obviously i would rather have it than not

[slow marsh]

It's so awk to use without gemstones

[strange python]

Bro we recleared up to rasz yesterday. And our shaman drops the "I just realized I didn't have wft on tonight"

[royal lantern]

so you take a mut buff talent, and then a talent that causes you to use mut less often....?

[subtle tundra]

I dont like sbs

[strange python]

After raid

[slow marsh]

I never know when to dump sbs anymore

[oak sky]

execute

[toxic burrow]

Ugh... Relying on that trinket from Ellisande again.

[oak sky]

lmao

[gusty mirage]

Doomblade

Is the best talent ever

[subtle tundra]

Only thing sbs does is give assa even more apm

[gusty mirage]

Let’s take a decent legendary; remove the good part and nerf the bleed damage

Wahoo

[subtle tundra]

When it needs less

[royal lantern]

not saying doomblade is good, but the placement for sbs is so weird

[slow marsh]

Oxi on a roll rn fr

[royal lantern]

like, why is it behind a MUTILATE node

[oak sky]

it being off lethal dose makes sense, behind doomblade makes no sense

[slow marsh]

Cuz that's what it was in sl

[oak sky]

but like

[strange python]

I just want the sin nerfs reverted man

[oak sky]

its because that node was designed with having sepsis not sbs

[strange python]

And I want outlaw to be trash for at least two tiers

[gusty mirage]

You know what they could do?

[strange python]

Outlaw hasn't been trash in so long

[gusty mirage]

Throw doomblade is the garbage where it fucking belongs

[slow marsh]

Na it's cuz they just read doomblade and db was popular for Necro

[oak sky]

if we arent getting the envenom amp we dont want it

[gusty mirage]

Move up the choice node, replace its current spot with the legendary effect

[steel ridge]

It was trash in SL S3

[gusty mirage]

So you could justify sbs in cleave

[royal lantern]

rework class and spec tree allready, give assa some viable raid aoe?

[gusty mirage]

You wanna give me sepsis?

[strange python]

Until it got omega buffs and gsw made it go from a difficult bad spec to an easy OP spec

[gusty mirage]

Give me toxic onslaught

[slow marsh]

There's actually 4-5 different ways they could change our talent pathing to make it so much better all around

[gusty mirage]

Or the conduit

[oak sky]

conduit please

[gusty mirage]

Don’t give me baseline sepsis lmao

[oak sky]

if we're keeping sepsis

[agile geode]

arterial seems to fix a bit

[toxic burrow]

"I wish I could dispel more enraged in m+."

Bam.

[royal lantern]

LOL

no

aterial is shit

[steel ridge]

That was shortly before S4 launch tho, it was in the gutter the entire season

[slow marsh]

Arterial makes things worse

[strange python]

The entirety of s3 was "shortly before s4"

[slow marsh]

It enables a cold blood tiny toxic blade build

Possibly

[strange python]

Fucking 1 day patch basically

[slow marsh]

Which is God awful design

[steel ridge]

Ok

[strange python]

They ruined season 3 to shit out some half assed fated raid to cater to whiny casuals who didn't even play the fated raids

[royal lantern]

have to justify those 3talents somehow

[slow marsh]

Smh my head

[royal lantern]

instead of removing or reworking them

[subtle tundra]

Arterial is exactly what assa needs! Sacrifice even more st for aoe

[slow marsh]

What happened to that realz guy I thought he was our sin savior in early alpha/beta

[oak sky]

well, sub left side also still exists

💀

[subtle tundra]

Class tree right side still not even remotely close to usable for assa

[oak sky]

or sub

[strange python]

I would assume he talks directly to the TCs or left entirely at this point

[oak sky]

really

definitely didnt leave

[slow marsh]

Na he didn't leave he's still here

[oak sky]

probably reading this

[slow marsh]

But is he even still working with them or what

[gloomy lake]

can anyone explain why a 415 ruby whelp shell with ST training is simming barely higher than a 398 puzzle box?

[subtle tundra]

Hi the real Z

[strange python]

It's midnight here I doubt it

[oak sky]

yeah

[gusty mirage]

Because it’s not as omega amazing as everyone thought it was

[strange python]

Puzzle box is insane

[slow marsh]

Was he just contracted for the alpha / beta then dipped and now we are drowning with the interns again?

[gusty mirage]

It’s just a solid trinket, no more no less

[gloomy lake]

but according to bloodmallet is should be better for PW

[oak sky]

pretty sure the new sin stuff is his

[drifting cloud]

its not even beating puzzle box

its beating the other one

[oak sky]

not sure if thats confirmed tho

[gloomy lake]

https://bloodmallet.com/chart/rogue/assassination/trinkets/castingpatchwerk

[slow marsh]

I see

I thought we liked realz. Why is this happening

[oak sky]

he did the fan the hammer changes

for sure

[gusty mirage]

We do

[gloomy lake]

its also says whispering incarnate is also bis now

[balmy condor]

What training options did you put into the custom apl

[gusty mirage]

Why would we not like Realz?

[gloomy lake]

dragonflight.ruby_whelp_shell_training=fire_shot:6

[oak sky]

honestly im fine with the changes

better than not getting any

[balmy condor]

Yeh okay

[gusty mirage]

He’s done more for rogue than anyone else in blizzard history not named Sephuz lol

[balmy condor]

Looks fine then

[oak sky]

its not like 10.0.5 is the end of the expansion

[slow marsh]

Yeah true that's why I'm confused about the changes tho

[gloomy lake]

@balmy condor i even changed it to nightly and bloodmallet is saying it should be light years ahead of a 398 puzzle box

[gusty mirage]

I mean, he’s trying something out. It’s better than nothing

[slow marsh]

Fair enough

[oak sky]

kb on a choice node enables 2 point dashing for 2 capstones, which is something for sure

[balmy condor]

Bloodmallet uses a template character, your character is different

[toxic burrow]

And... Blizzard announces a new expansion in 10.0.5 to make DF shorter than SL.

[gusty mirage]

I’d rather have changes I’m not excited about vs no changes at all

[oak sky]

100%

[slow marsh]

I wouldn't tbh

[gloomy lake]

@balmy condor so hold onto it and maybe eventually with different gear itll be better? also what are your thoughts on whispering incarnate being 2nd bis according to bloodmallet?

[gusty mirage]

I mean the current state of assassination cleave and aoe is “meh”

You’d rather it stay like that?

[balmy condor]

Icon is a good trinket

[subtle tundra]

And st meh in m+

[oak sky]

these arent like fully awful objectively irredeemable changes, it just solves some problems and creates others

work in progress

[gusty mirage]

Yeah we sacrifice a shit ton of ST for any semblance of aoe/cleave

[slow marsh]

Of course not. But I'd also rather not have any changes than have changes that seem out of touch

[gusty mirage]

Now we can get dtb and IC

That helps a bit

[toxic burrow]

Spamming CT is kind of... Blech, yeah. But what other choice do we have? 😦

[magic vine]

its probably hard to get head balance change people to sign off on blanket improvements

[gusty mirage]

Aoe shiv maybe ends up being better than we thought? Who knows

[strange python]

Black powder

[oak sky]

they arent entirely out of touch, they have components that people were asking for during the beta cycle

[slow marsh]

It could for sure end up being better that's true

[gusty mirage]

Our old capstone on the left side was tiny toxic blade bro

[toxic burrow]

. _.

[gusty mirage]

Trust me

[magic vine]

like feint going baseline and the cd node going to first section is really nice for the class tree

[gusty mirage]

It could be worse lol

[slow marsh]

Ouch I didn't know that lmao

[oak sky]

yeah

that was funny

we're lucky we even ended up with kingsbane

[gusty mirage]

Realz is the mvp, nothing about our dissatisfaction is his fault

[oak sky]

venomous wounds was where shrouded is and shrouded wasnt on the tree

[subtle tundra]

FYI I will forever hate the people that made realz add sbs to our tree

[strange python]

Ultimately every class tree will have things that people think are silly. The big frustration, imo, is that the nerfs sin got were entirely unreasonable.

Especially in retrospect

[gloomy lake]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[gusty mirage]

I blame the community council or whatever they were called

Or just blame quake

[slow marsh]

I see so we dislike the people forcing realz to do the bad stuff

[gusty mirage]

He’s usually a good scapegoat

[grim jay]

[subtle tundra]

Blame skip?

[drifting cloud]

blame skip

[gusty mirage]

[slow marsh]

Blame skip for sure

He arrowed the raid

[oak sky]

you know what wouldve been cool

[strange python]

?? Why aren't we blaming zerocool?

[oak sky]

giving kingsbane a talent under it that makes the last tick blow up in aoe

[subtle tundra]

Who?

[vestal wren]

oh ye community council rly worked out great

[gusty mirage]

He’s too busy using fan of knives in ST

[strange python]

The best sin key player.

[subtle tundra]

Ahhh

Whispur

[slow marsh]

I'm choking

[subtle tundra]

Whispurrrrr

Like cat

[oak sky]

im so glad ramfam had me go to his stream man

[strange python]

so kingsbane dead next week?

[gusty mirage]

I’m not, I could’ve lived my life without ever knowing he did that

And then tried justifying it

[oak sky]

poisoned katar

[gusty mirage]

“I’m playing poisoned katar” like yeah okay buddy

[strange python]

He's just applying find weakness. With improved shuriken Storm.

[oak sky]

i still have the dms

[strange python]

Before dance.

[oak sky]

[slow marsh]

I mean he had people unironically playing night fae in mists

[oak sky]

nf korayn

so bad

lmao

[grim jay]

I saw my first DH this season actually dealing good dmg on his stream

[gusty mirage]

Yeah his DH doesn’t eat frontals so he can GOTTA KEEP MOMENTUM

Crazy

[grim jay]

That aswell

[gusty mirage]

DH is the class for people who have undiagnosed ADHD

[grim jay]

And doesnt asspull all day

[oak sky]

eye beam vengeful retreat essence break death sweep :wickedsteer:

[gusty mirage]

I mean DH is in the middle of that acronym

We should’ve seen it coming

[grim jay]

Meanwhile people arguing DH is difficult now

[gusty mirage]

I mean yeah

[grim jay]

[gusty mirage]

They have 6 buttons to press now instead of 3

That’s a 100% increase!

[slow marsh]

It's difficult to stay alive cuz they are full sending

[oak sky]

dh isnt necessarily difficult but it does have some depth now

its ok to be easy

its not really ok to be boring

[grim jay]

True. And its now 300% more than fury

[gusty mirage]

Tru

[oak sky]

raging blow raging blow raging blow rampage raging blow

[gusty mirage]

I can’t wait to get smoked by arms warriors on Tuesday

About to be sick

[oak sky]

rend colossus smash skullsplitter rend

[gusty mirage]

Nerf assassination rogue btw

[slow marsh]

But hey sin is ezpz too remember. We just garrote rupture mutilate mutilate mutilate

[gusty mirage]

Clearly overperforming on heroic terros

Needs a nerf

[grim jay]

Actually I feel like arms will be more engaging than ever

[oak sky]

spec with 1 minute burst performing on razageth shields?

wtf

[gusty mirage]

Whoever balances this game must have a stump leg or something because their idea of balance is whack

[slow marsh]

Maaaaan 1 min burst I wish we had a decent dance build

[gusty mirage]

No you don’t

Stop it

[oak sky]

dance doesnt really have burst tbh

[slow marsh]

Yeah I do man it sucks to come in when all the exploring is already pretty much done with but it's all new to me

[oak sky]

outlaw uses it for procs

[gusty mirage]

You gonna spam ambush?

[oak sky]

idk what we would use it for lol

1 singular garrote i guess

[slow marsh]

Just imp gar

[grim jay]

Wish we had a DTB kingsbane build

[gusty mirage]

MFers complain about needing to bind ambush because of blindside

[oak sky]

real ones had it bound for subterfuge in m+

[slow marsh]

I do like ambush tho ngl

[gusty mirage]

You want them to play dance???

[subtle tundra]

Wish dance was good

[oak sky]

crazy how using existing abilities is fun

[crisp badger]

Does anyone have a link to the sin changes next week?

i really enjoyed playing sin in raid, and was holding 70k dps, felt nice

[slow marsh]

It kind of is though when you don't normally get to

[oak sky]

im a big blindside fan tho

its always been one of my favorites

[slow marsh]

Same I always have been

[subtle tundra]

Make ma 100% 😡

[oak sky]

random procs every once in a while then twice as many in execute

[slow marsh]

I like when you bs into bs 🥜

[gusty mirage]

Yo true

What’s this 30% garbage

[subtle tundra]

Or 60%(i have 40% crit)

[oak sky]

i still wish MA was in the class tree as the 100% leggo

fuck the haters

[slow marsh]

They had to make it 30% so we couldn't abuse it with dance and sepsis and vanish duh

[agile geode]

wish we could be a well performing spec without playing with stupid exang snapshot or 3m cd headache

[subtle tundra]

Duh

[oak sky]

i bet we still wouldnt talent MA at 50%

[subtle tundra]

I don't play exsang and box and do well

[agile geode]

just like sub and Outlaw

[slow marsh]

What about the exsang vanish ma tech

[grim jay]

I'm an exsang enjoyer

Jk jk. Its whatever for me tbh

I would like a choice node there for either more frequent burst or more consistent damage

[slow marsh]

I mean not liking exsang is fine but there's comparable builds

[crisp badger]

idk this is my first mythic prog night as sin, and it felt really nice

[slow marsh]

You mean like a 1 minute CD that does burst damage or the ability to use 2 lethal poisons or something ?

[crisp badger]

i didnt do exsang either

[slow marsh]

I feel like exsang will be ezpz for me this tier after dealing with 4p last tier

[grim jay]

No they could just have a Talent after exs that alters exsang with a choice

[slow marsh]

Well evidently they mentioned reworking exsang so there's hope

[oak sky]

do you want me to find it man

[slow marsh]

Na I looked

And found it

[royal lantern]

yeha, fuck @spice spire

[slow marsh]

Woah chill my guy is probably making breakfast right now

[oak sky]

3am for him

[slow marsh]

Exactly

[subtle tundra]

Its actually 10 am

But you're excused

[grim jay]

I feel like DTB should be where it is then, a huge capstone thats taken on both aoe and ST, but you should get more options to alter damageprofile elsewhere like other classes. Exs without a talent that alters it is kinda not really relevant in that regard

And AP could have less targets and more impact on that lower target count

So it fills the Spot between ic and dtb

[slow marsh]

AP already has lower targets

[fading ocean]

anyone able to help out with logs :)

[grim jay]

5 is still too much to buff it to a point where it is worth it even on ST

[subtle tundra]

It's specifically made to prompt assa cleave

Which is what it does

But then again, for assa to do decent cleave it sacrifices st big time

Shit design

[slow marsh]

I think the two fan talents would be better to look at for AoE assistance imo. They kind of feel like they're just off in no man's land

[grim jay]

Yeah but the point is that many or most classes use 2 of the 3 capstones on both damagetypes and we are stuck with 1, making it less flexible while running a ST build aswell

[fading ocean]

!logs

[slow marsh]

IC shouldn't be a capstone without any kind of built in damage amp imo and scent shouldn't be 3 points going into it

[royal lantern]

it would be good, if the game would be balanced around that AND all specs had to do that desiciom

[slow marsh]

That would help a lot on it's own

[royal lantern]

but they dont

so we have specs like assa that go either full st with 0aoe, or full aoe with 0St

and specs like outlaw or dh that always do both great

🙂

[slow marsh]

If IC was at least usable in any manner for a single target it would help a lot

[subtle tundra]

Delete outlaw

[grim jay]

Like if the final cleave capstone wouldnt have an AoE damage cap, it could be tuned to be more impactful even on ST over some random talent points in the Tree, so you end up with 2 caps im ST and AoE, giving the ST some needed cleave aswell

Like arms is good ST and they have cleave for free

[slow marsh]

We're kind of getting that a little bit

[subtle tundra]

How much dps is putting 1 point into sob

For st

[slow marsh]

That's my point both talents do nothing at all in st and ic is just qol for AoE anyways

That's 4 points that do 0 in any ST situation. I don't want them to be 'good' in st but at least do something

[grim jay]

So its reasonable to give us a worthwhile AP on ST and cleave, while IC outshines it bcs higher targetcount.
5 target cap is no cleave either. Make it 3 and buff it to be worth to take on 1-3

[slow marsh]

I wouldn't say IC outshines AP. As much as I was bagging on AP being lazy, it's solid for sure

[grim jay]

But it should

[slow marsh]

Yeah that's a problem with IC

[subtle tundra]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[slow marsh]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[subtle tundra]

i wanna see whispyr do apl things with ap

[slow marsh]

I think it could surprise

[grim jay]

Tho I'd argue its fine compared to that weird place of a cleave talent thats more like the average fort aoe pack

[subtle tundra]

cant wait to stop having 4pc and then both ic/ap lose omega value

[slow marsh]

Yeah big true

But you know next tier we just get the same recycled poison bleed buffs in a different flavor

[grim jay]

2p envenom leaves a poisondot

4p bleeds tick faster and gain 5% crit while you have atleast 2 poisons up

[slow marsh]

Bleeds tick faster seems to be a thing they refuse to do

[grim jay]

Its prolly too strong with regards to energy reg

[subtle tundra]

wow

more apm

going from 58 to 59?

poggers?

almost gcd capped

[grim jay]

60!

[subtle tundra]

we're gonna become like outlaw and cry when we lose a gcd bcs of energy

[grim jay]

Couldve stopped that after cry

Tbf I dont think they will make any changes that would end up as a decent gain as long as there are enough rogues high up on most fights

[slow marsh]

AP/DTB is a weird path

We have to drop doomblade and sbs to get them both from what I can tell and idk about that

Seems like it would cancel out any gain

[subtle tundra]

me when blizz balances around raid and m+ just becomes a roulette of what didnt get adjusted

me when assa definetly deserved 3% aura nerf in m+

definetly

[grim jay]

Dont even think it was needed for raid

Looking at how things are now

It was fine for a moment until they buffed the others

[subtle tundra]

lol i opened wlogs to see where assa is and the opening statistics, all logs and mythic puts it so fucking low

and sub + outlaw dominating big time

ik its not a good way to look at it but its amusing

yea assa is basically equal to sub and outlaw on pure ST and then those two specs can also do aoe

[slow marsh]

Yeah it seems like it's a bit worse rn than usual

[subtle tundra]

fuck assa is so bad

[grim jay]

Yeah I mean its obviously lower considering its ST if you look at overall, but its not high enough on ST 95% and above to justify a nerf

[agile geode]

is full aoe this raid

[subtle tundra]

literally on terros all rogue specs are equal

[agile geode]

yy true

[grim jay]

Yeah but overall

[slow marsh]

Its just the ongoing issue that we can keep up in st to the other two specs but when any adds are tossed in we get blown out. And the few times where our st is necessary (bursting a shield or something ) sub generally does it better anyways

I don't really care about blasting in aoe on sin. I just want a reason to want to bring a sin rogue to something instead of being memed on

[grim jay]

Even on ST 95% and higher it severely gets beaten by uh dk for example

[royal lantern]

yep

[grim jay]

And 2 button master even

Eh I mean BM

[royal lantern]

assa is reduced to "full st only, you cant do anything except st" and then is not even the best st spec in its class

[slow marsh]

Exactly

[agile geode]

and for deal good st you have to get cancer with exanguinate and 3min stuff

[royal lantern]

meanwhile other classes/specs do st and aoe/cleave with 0problems

[agile geode]

with sub you send all cd without overthinkin

[slow marsh]

I want a talent that lets us actually funnel. That would help a lot

[royal lantern]

like, watching the dh do same/more dmg on pure st then me as assa, but also beeing #1for all aoe/cleave fights and still beeing #2boss dmg

🙂

[grim jay]

Its not like sin involves more thinking with CDs tho

[slow marsh]

Instead of scent of blood give an AOE old doomblade where it increases your envenom damage for each bleed on all enemies around you or something

[grim jay]

Wait for shadow omegastomping ST

[agile geode]

exang puzzlebox kingsbane with 2 shiv charge

[royal lantern]

"uh, you see, assa has value cus im doing 16m boss dmg and 200k on adds when the dh does 15m boss dmg and 9m adds 🙂 "

[agile geode]

you have to "think more" than other spec

[grim jay]

Puzzlebox is just trinket logic, KB is on CD and you just dont use shiv except for KB, no big thinking

[agile geode]

still more to plan than other

[slow marsh]

Na sin is def the big brain spec

[agile geode]

sin rn is more harder to me than other specs

[grim jay]

The only thing sin really has rn is execute for progress mostly

[slow marsh]

I mean zold is really nice I'm glad we have it

[agile geode]

y zold is nice

but next week kingsbane will share a window with dtb

so rip big execute burst

[slow marsh]

We still take zold pretty sure

Just no kb

[agile geode]

yy

but less burst and less utility dmg to rasz

or at least sub will do prolly better there

that's why i swapped to sub

[royal lantern]

DF in a nutshell

[grim jay]

Sub does overall better on rasz anyways depending on what you need

[royal lantern]

[agile geode]

yes. i know i was talking about rasz barrier dmg

with kingsbane it was cool to bring in a raid

now is just a sub fight, probably

[grim jay]

Considering you put the point into zoldyck, cant say you lose much on execute. It even makes it somewhat less dependant on killtime

[grim jay]

Likely

[next edge]

Sub is like top2 spec for Razs

because damage patterns

top2 spec in the game i mean

[next edge]

[royal lantern]

cant tell me its not true

[uneven summit]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[royal lantern]

"i could do X as assa, or just play sub and do it better with less effort" is the entire expansion for everything rn

[next edge]

It's not

[slow marsh]

It was pretty much all of SL and it's not looking good so far

[next edge]

if you say sub is less effort than DTB Sin (which is the most played widely)

youre full of copium

at least on raid-environment

btw @royal lantern I did exsang yesterday on Terros, didnt feel that bad, 70k dps

[grim jay]

For me sin feels less effort for performing on ST actually

No front, love both

[royal lantern]

your comfort spec always needs less effort

like, its wow

musclememory rules

[grim jay]

Sub is my comfort spec actually

[agile geode]

kek

[grim jay]

Thats the weird thing

[agile geode]

a lot weird

[next edge]

I played Sub way more hours than Sin

[agile geode]

but i feel that

[next edge]

like I only touch sin on certain bosses in raid

otherwise I spam sub on keys, which I do a lot

[grim jay]

Sub is my m+ spec mostly always and I use Sub and sin in raid

Aswell

[next edge]

and tbh Sin DTB is really easy to do okay

[agile geode]

i feel more easy sub rn, not sayin sin dbt is hard but sub to me is a bit easier

exang 3min hurt my brain

[next edge]

End of the day, its super subjective

but DTB Sin imo is way easier than the other specs, at least to do alright/get a good number

Sub feels way more punishing if you fuck up

[agile geode]

yy absolutely

[royal lantern]

based

[grim jay]

I think outlaw is the easiest tbf but

Some people cant handle spamy specs

[subtle tundra]

sub is fun

[next edge]

I can't play outlaw

i suck too hard

[subtle tundra]

i cant play outlaw

i will end my life

[royal lantern]

i cant play outlaw

i dont have a warrior at max lvl

[grim jay]

I cant play outlaw

I dont hate myself enough

Tho sometimes its close

I did play combat sometimes tho

[misty holly]

My raid lead just told me to learn outlaw. Says we don't need a rogue who can't aoe 😦

Think I might be done raiding already this exp

[next edge]

your RL is stupid

[grim jay]

Tell him to get good

[next edge]

Specially when rogue is top on ST Dmg this tier

[ionic fox]

Your RL doesn't look at boss damage taken

[grim jay]

Was

[ionic fox]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[next edge]

Is

[grim jay]

It literally isnt top anymore except you look at all the mediocre players aswell

No offense

[ionic fox]

Are we gaining or losing ST next week?

[grim jay]

90% + its literally unholy, bm ...

[grim jay]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[grim jay]

There is a ptr tab

Thats 10.0.5

[ionic fox]

okay so 1872 dps upgrade

[lament warren]

idk

i came into this expac having only ever played outlaw and sin

outlaw > sub > sin for effort

[dark token]

Was

[grim jay]

Hot take

[lament warren]

correct take

[next edge]

Thats actually a really correct take

tbh

[grim jay]

Debatable but its legit that some feel high apm is more effort

[lament warren]

outlaw has more responsibilities

generally

the class can just Do More so you have to think about more

at least HO

don't have to think about vanish for dmg vs vanish for utility or healing as sub or sin

same w sdance

you also

[tall atlas]

is dtb always better than KB or should i just trust the sims?

[lament warren]

CAN take gouge as sub or sin

but no one does

sim

the only persno i know that takes gouge as sin is whispyr

[hybrid portal]

wat? you do vanish for dmg as outlaw

[lament warren]

and seli

i didn't say you didn't

only saying there are plenty of situations where vanish is a defensive first and foremost

for outlaw

[royal lantern]

kb is dead in 1week sooo....

[dark token]

Yes you do

Lmfao??

[royal lantern]

what, i always take gouge

no gouge is int

[dark token]

I constantly have to think if I vanish during dm as sub or save it for a boss or save it for catching up long distance

[lament warren]

i think gouge is overrated

but it's whatever

vanishing during dm as sub

would be really impressive

[dark token]

I do it all the time

[lament warren]

yeah?

[dark token]

Yeah

[lament warren]

you vanish during deathmark as sub?

that's a thing that you do?

[dark token]

Vanishing during danse macrabr stacks

[hybrid portal]

dance macabre

[dark token]

Yeah

That's a thing I do

[lament warren]

LMAO

i am sorry

it was just silly

[grim jay]

You do for sub aswell

[lament warren]

i mean kinda

[kind forge]

also vanish strike for premed

[lament warren]

you don't have cdr on sub

you vanish strike for the damage more than the premed

but ya

also i don' tknow what "during dance macabre" means

does vanish strike count as a separate stack than regular strike

[grim jay]

And tbf I dont think having more tools to deal with situations others rather need to avoid makes the spec more difficult

[dark token]

It means ideally you vanish during 4-5 dm stacks

Not at low count or outside dance

[lament warren]

idk i dont have to think about that

just press the buttons correctly

it's not like

it doesn't change

you always have the ability to do that twice after you sent stech

almost always

but

you don't get soothing darkness on sub or sin

so there are times where vanish/sdance is just better for outlaw

[dark token]

It's pretty often I autopilot rotation then don't have 2 vanishes for fenryr cause I didn't plan 4 mins in advance

Outlaw thinks about it less since vanish up so often

[lament warren]

outlaw still has to play around true bearing for that specific scenario

if they can

if you dont' get tb there's a possibility you dont get enough cdr to vanish twice on fenryr

[grim jay]

Dealing damage is just more spamy and straightforward on outlul. Outlul has the Utility more often so you can just waste it if you really want to

[lament warren]

so you have to disregard roll priority for utility

it's spammy on every spec

every single melee dps is spammy

with the exception of sometimes arms warrior and sometimes sin

but in a lot of situations sin is spammy

that's just the way that be

i think dealing damage is the most straightforward on sub

this button does aoe this button does st this button does both

but that might be a cooked opinionated take tbh

[dark token]

Sub is the easiest ye

[royal lantern]

assa and sub litearlly have the same apm in df

[polar matrix]

harder than outlaw?

easier*

[lament warren]

ya

[polar matrix]

what makes outlaw harder

[lament warren]

outlaw has a lot of reactive gameplay

it's proactive in the sense that you know the options

but you have to balance reacting with also doing everything else a rogue has to do

[royal lantern]

but outlaw is no rogue

2swords, doesnt even use stealth, no rogue

[lament warren]

apm doesn't make a spec spammy or not

pressing gloomblade 900x doesnt become not spammy because you dont have energy

[grim jay]

Dunno, I dont think having more of the same Utility makes the spec more effort to play. Its the opposite for me.
Outlaw literally just bf, cant argue about straightforward play. Sub has adjustments for situations and planning on damagewindows.
But its ok to have different opinions as those are different styles of play

[lament warren]

i think it's probably

less effort and more rigidity

sin is the most rigid, sub is 2nd most and outlaw is least rigid

damage patterns etc

[grim jay]

Most people that ask for improvement and stuff dont manage to do specific things in specific Windows or badly adjust in bursts. Occasionally they seemingly cant manage and keep track of dots

Those are things many struggle with and you dont have that much on outlul

[lament warren]

ig thats fair

roll priority is really simple rn too

[grim jay]

Rolls are something I personally really dont like

[normal mist]

My guild finally downed razageth normal yesterday and I'm super unhappy about my performance and yet I parsed purple xD

(we got 6/8hc before killing raz normal)

[polar matrix]

!log

[grim jay]

Nhc parses are whatever

If you do NHC with higher ilvl you should be able to always parse atleast 90, even if you fuck some stuff up

Still worthwhile to analyze for improvements tho

[fleet imp]

Kb dead next week?

[normal mist]

I died at the beginning due to that debuff that drops the big area, wasn't immediately ressed and that kinda fucked me up but yeah I'll post log nonetheless for some tricks and tips

[fleet imp]

Haven't look too much into the new tree

Dtb gaming uhm

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[normal mist]

!logs

[fleet imp]

Losing execute next week

[turbid harbor]

You still put 2 points in execute when taking the DTB/KB node next week right?

Because dashing is a 2 point talent now

[royal lantern]

can you like, be happy for his achievment instead of going full parse nazi

[lament warren]

anythingn below 99 is pathetic

[shell cloud]

Hey i just finally came back to playing Assasination. Im curios, are we using exsanguinate in DTB build? There is no exan in opener but what about further rotation?

[misty holly]

99 is fine, I guess. But why not 100? You should be getting 100.

[lament warren]

i will never defeat yoda

[grim jay]

Its not parse nazi, its just not good for anything really, except for reviewing

[slim hamlet]

I mean

[grim jay]

I always am happy about parsing good aswell, no matter where, but in reality..😁

[slim hamlet]

It is an achievement for some

So you're telling me parsing 99 in normal with mythic ilvl gear is not because of my skill?

[buoyant quail]

Morning All! I absolutely adore the Assassin fantasy and I enjoy the more methodical approach to sin. However with this expansion ive been overwhelmed but button bloat. Im an old player so i know this will be a git gud issue. Im just struggling with as it AoE feels really clunky?
Am I alone in this? I've checked builds and i don't really see a DTB baked AoE build if there is such a thing.
However with the upcoming changes, hopefully giving us two capstones, mean we can go DTB and either the new cleave capstone or the AoE one? Will this play a bit smoother?

[royal lantern]

exsang is in the opener, check the faq again

[grim jay]

If you are logging against equal peops

[slim hamlet]

DTB and IC will prob be the main build for m+

Which should be a lot easier to use than our current DTB + KB build

[fading mason]

next week would u say kingsbane will still be played for razageth shields ?

[timber basalt]

The m+ dtb build in faq is what you're looking for

[slim hamlet]

Idk in terms of parses I only look at them compared to my guildies

[slim hamlet]

the current DTB build is unironically way harder to use well than KB+IC

[pure spoke]

how much should you be focusing on elaborate planning?

[slim hamlet]

Not at all

Just forget it exists

[timber basalt]

Is it? I find holding shivs unnatural and just send them on cd

[pure spoke]

surely refreshing as late as possible as long as you're not wasting procs/energy it's fine? or maybe keeping elaborate planning up through exsang?

[grim jay]

You mean like they parse 70 and you parse 99 or actually comparing more than just that spec-specific number ? 😁

[slim hamlet]

u could gain the smallest slither of dps by pooling at specific points to maintain it, but it is not at all worth the effort

[buoyant quail]

Ah perfect thankyou! 🙂

[slim hamlet]

The hard part about sin rogue is putting up and maintaining multiple dots

U have to do that the whole dung with DTB, with IC u just press 3 buttons and then just maintain

but it is less buttons

So whatever you find harder I suppose

[timber basalt]

But outside of that it's harder imho

[slim hamlet]

Yea

[timber basalt]

Which is kinda 90% of the dungeon

[grim jay]

And arguably getting the opener straight since many struggle on that

[slim hamlet]

Doesnt matter much since KB doesnt exist next week

[timber basalt]

I'm an ex feral main so for me putting up dots is natural tbh

So maybe ymmv

[unreal kayak]

Gonna miss zoldyck in big aoe when the dmg just spikes when in execute

[pure spoke]

what do you mean?

[slim hamlet]

it will be 6% worse than DTB 🙂

[pure spoke]

wait what

did i miss some nerfs

[slim hamlet]

nah

just moved position

which makes it infinitely worse

U can see sims in ptr tab of thiss

!whispyr