assassination

[balmy condor]

I mean it's kinda rhetorical

mostly rhetorical

[static glacier]

3 apm isn't noticable

around 6-7 is when you'd start noticing

[balmy condor]

most musicians struggle with differences under 5 bpm

like it's possible if you're really paying attention

but if you're like playing music/playing the game

no shot

[static glacier]

I think it's a bit different to playing music, atleast in my mind the gaps between button presses and starting at energy recharging for some reason is v memorable

I blame outlaw tbh, turned my brain to mush

speaking of apm I wonder if sub has more apm than sin on st nowadays

[ebon notch]

Finally my autism will shine through

[balmy condor]

easily, yes

[ebon notch]

Mentions sub

Stealthi is typing...

[earnest remnant]

as one. this is pretty true

[tacit oracle]

You'll definitely notice the difference, particularly the lows of Asn apm pauses are a lot more often and the higher of Sub pressing a lot of oGCDs within a smaller window of time.

[static glacier]

fair fair, not gotten to play the pure st sub build with first dance yet, typically just play sin for st focused fights

[balmy condor]

I went to college for music and part of conducting is standing there on the podium, seeing 98, and then you get told after you actually gave 95

and you're like

oh

okay then

[earnest remnant]

yeh ive played music since ive could remebered and had music up until halfway through my uni

[pure skiff]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[static glacier]

any idea why 2nd zoldyck point would sim 0.8% higher than Suffocation on dtb no exsang

[balmy condor]

it's possible I made a mistake importing the build let me double check

[static glacier]

just for me I mean, not in general

not ran sims on bis setups

might be 4min puzzlebox + dm lining up with execute phase in 5min sim

[balmy condor]

yah could be

there's been a couple changes like that

which could impact things

good to double check anyways

[lament warren]

i only really notice at intervals of 10

[balmy condor]

yah bis profiles don't want any of it

idk

maybe it's a crit thing and it doesn't want the combo points or like a haste thing

idk

weird gear things are weird

[static glacier]

is that exsang though

I'm playing without

[balmy condor]

that is not

[static glacier]

hmm

[balmy condor]

yeah I start to feel something off at around 9-10 as well

if I really focus on it, I can tell like 5-7ish

but it's hard

[lament warren]

i’ve never tried below 10

but i played a lot of rhythm games like 10+ hours a day for about 6-8 yrs

and it’s for sure 10s for me

some intervals you can’t mentally tell the difference you can only just like

Feel it

like 220 to 222

[static glacier]

looking into the bis profiles now, is it intentional that the epic gem has haste on it

[lament warren]

but if you put them side by side you could not tell

[static glacier]

wouldn't that risk lariat proc'ing haste?

[balmy condor]

the primary stat one?

primary stat gems don't proc from lariat

[static glacier]

don't they have an associated element?

iirc they did

[balmy condor]

!neck

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.

[static glacier]

guess they don't, wierd considering they're capstones for the elemental JC prof trees

[balmy condor]

yeah they're not elemental gems though

is the thing

like this is a fire onyx

[static glacier]

yeah fair

[balmy condor]

this is a... nothing

[static glacier]

it's uh .. fierce?

[balmy condor]

yasssss

slay

[dark arrow]

what was the command to create a log review?

[balmy condor]

its !log

[dark arrow]

ty!

!log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/4AahNdKFGq738jXw#fight=16&type=damage-done&source=10

[swift moss]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[neon burrow]

hey all, doing council fight. Heard it was a good idea to just do DTB multi spec. anyone have a link to what that might look like?

[balmy condor]

you heard wrong

we play IC on council

[pine bloom]

I USUALLY SWITCH TO OUTLAW FOR COUNCIL LOL

oops

[neon burrow]

IC and KB?

[balmy condor]

no, just IC

if you take KB you can't take sbs

and that's no good

cause SBS is good

well, you take KB in dungeons

cause SBS is less good

but on council sbs is very good

so usually you would want to play something like this

[oak sky]

Is part of that dslice weighting st fairly high though

And zoldyck omega good

[balmy condor]

surprisingly no

[oak sky]

Huh

[balmy condor]

I mean part of it

yes

but it's a lot of things

[oak sky]

Doomblade being a 0 talent

[balmy condor]

part of it being just sbs eating too many gcds

doomblade being awful

it's tricky

[oak sky]

And you have to drop a zoldyck point to get sbs

[balmy condor]

yeh

[frozen iris]

Would someboy mind looking at my log for terros?

[oak sky]

Do we lose sbs on council next patch or is it better than arterial

[balmy condor]

no clue

[oak sky]

Its weird because

[balmy condor]

have bigger issues than optimizing for 4 target atm

[oak sky]

I think arterial fits well at the top of the left kinda

And dtb and kb capstone makes sense

But also the builds we had access too previously were pretty fun

And now we face dropping zoldyck for keys and kb being bad and all this other stuff

[indigo epoch]

man 400 ilvl feels like a wall. hard to believe these folks out here 415+

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[oak sky]

Its mostly about how much time you put/are able to put into heroic raid and m+

[indigo epoch]

yeah, truth, i dont get to play as much as I used to. this getting old shit is lame.

anyone been playin AP on PTR? how's it feel? (i read the pins/and numbers)

... but is it fun to play

[balmy condor]

it's fine

combo points are a little jank

[static glacier]

any theories on why eastern rogues tend to not take exsang as much

[gusty mirage]

what are eastern rogues

[eager vigil]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Crit >= Mastery > Haste > Versatility
Note: In high mythic+ keys, you may want more Versatility to survive. While you may see this on high end players gear, this is generally worse DPS. For pure DPS, Versatility is mostly avoided.

[strange python]

Prob Korea and china

[gusty mirage]

very interesting way of saying that ig

[zenith fox]

Is it worth to main assassination on high keys and raids ?
I just can't get my head around sub or outlaw

[gusty mirage]

if you can find a group that appreciates the utility assassination brings, absolutely

if you mostly pug

ngl you're better off playing sub or outlaw

[zenith fox]

I push m+ with friends

[gusty mirage]

then yea

play what you want

assassination is more than viable

@marble hemlock's cranking out high keys as assassination

it's very doable

[zenith fox]

Just to clarify,
We always run KB + IC in m+
And KB St build in raids except council right?

[gusty mirage]

assuming you have puzzle box, yea

otherwise dtb should outperform kb + exsang in ST

[zenith fox]

Yep i have

[gusty mirage]

but I would recommend the DtB M+ build on tyrannical weeks

until 10.0.5 where we'd pretty much just play DtB + IC

always

rip to my boy

[zenith fox]

For m+ currently farming trinkets

Very unlucky with those

[zenith fox]

Wait there is dtb + ic build?
It's not there in faq i guess

[gusty mirage]

there will be in 10.0.5

[zenith fox]

Ah okay

[gusty mirage]

yea they're cutting dashing down to a two pointer

which will let us grab IC

[zenith fox]

Got it, which trinkets do you run for m+ and st?

[gusty mirage]

I just run my mythic whispering icon + puzzle box

in all content, mostly because I'm lazy

but also cuz 567 crit is pretty nice to have

[strange python]

I’m new to Rogue but what should I be focusing on to get use to it?

[balmy condor]

I don't get the question

focus rotationally? focus gear wise? for m+? raid?

[strange python]

I guess rotationally. Anything specific or just keeping bleeds up and dumping with envinom?

[balmy condor]

yep

that's basically the spec

[gaunt meteor]

When Hekili has a red countdown number is that telling me to wait to cast?

oh i think that's the cooldown? it's just that it sometimes shwos it on envenom

[balmy condor]

Rotation helpers

[still steppe]

i think it’s time for u to include your rotation helper in hekili

[balmy condor]

The day I do something in hekili I want you to swat my house because I was probably murdered and someone is stealing my identity

[pastel onyx]

[still steppe]

you should give the people what they want i swear most beginners goes to hekili instead of looking at class disc

[balmy condor]

That’s fine

If they refuse to learn how to play the spec and want to blindly let a bot tell them what buttons to press

Then they’re not worth my time

[still steppe]

[royal lantern]

sooo.....sims?

[balmy condor]

I put out more than enough Assassination content through public pages like wowhead and method

This class discord has almost 120k people

If people refuse to learn themselves, there’s nothing I can do

[still steppe]

fucken oath ok now whispyr i need some major help

how do i practice my sim dps on a target dummy and not reset combat / details when i vanish

[feral rivet]

Dynamic damage

Just make sure to do /details clear before you start cause that won't reset on starting combat

[gaunt meteor]

Idk i'm trying to learn the spec I just was curious about the addon and wanted to see if I could learn anything from it that's all

[balmy condor]

Quick sim your character using target dummy as a fight type, then start a log

[still steppe]

oh true

[mystic tiger]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[still steppe]

never thought of that

sick i’ll do that later when i get on

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[still steppe]

ty ty

[balmy condor]

That’s like the only thing I do hitting a dummy in the last couple years

Can compare crit chances and average hits and stuff and buff uptimes

Very easy

[spark nymph]

whats pandemic window for rupture?.. like 5 sec?

[balmy condor]

!pd

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[jaunty hamlet]

Anyone know if Atrophic Poison affects Kellog's elemental stack dmg? Logs list it as Environmental so I would assume not, however wanted a confirmation

[balmy condor]

Yeah I don’t believe it does

[spark nymph]

thx Whispyr

[dreamy elk]

@balmy condor Are your current sim changes already on raidbots?

[balmy condor]

what sim changes exactly

[ebon thorn]

!pooling

[mystic zenith]

is there a way to sim on raidbots with extra grieftorch procs?

[dreamy elk]

The trinket fixes.

[royal lantern]

not a thing

[earnest imp]

Is there a talent calculator for 10.5 talents somewhere?

[strange python]

Also thanks for your help coming from a DH bit more to keep in mind with rogues

[grim jay]

10.5 is pretty far in the future

[earnest imp]

Lmao ye getting them mixed

Found it anyways

[grim jay]

Ye it should be easy to find on wowhead

[severe oyster]

Probably not best place to ask, but does anyone here play on a laptop? I'm looking for something when I'm on the road.

[strange python]

g15 zephyrus 3080. Also has a great screen

[severe oyster]

Thanks I'll check that out! Been a long time since I've owned a laptop.

[strange python]

Yeah just use off topic next time, I travel a lot for work so it’s my on the go fix for WoW

[royal lantern]

dude, offtopic is shity memes and the same 6people making dumb comments to eachother, not for stuff like that

[slow marsh]

Kinda true actually

[lament warren]

sin mains are the most wrinkly brains of all the rogue mains

it only makes sense you would ask that question here

[craggy glen]

!log

[royal lantern]

ew, thats gross

[oak sky]

[analog anchor]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[winter gale]

Kingsbane Exsang is best?

[earnest imp]

Do you guys think the 10.0.5 changes will make Assassination notably better in m+? (and raid)

[balmy condor]

right now yeah

[balmy condor]

no, it has essentially no effect at all

[grim jay]

Well

KB dead

Thats the effect

[subtle tundra]

zoldyck was carrying aoe in ic kb so we lose a lot by going dtb

[balmy condor]

that's just not true

[subtle tundra]

well it equals out tho

with dtb

[balmy condor]

how does one lose a lot

[subtle tundra]

if we could go zoldyck dtb it would be insane

[balmy condor]

and equal out

at the same time

[subtle tundra]

whats so hard to understand

we lost aoe

and gained it

throught dtb

but im pretty sure we lost aoe overall

cause our st will be bigger

and the sim is basically equal

in dslice

[balmy condor]

"we lose a lot by going dtb"
"well it equals out tho"

[subtle tundra]

yea

we lost aoe

didnt we?

[balmy condor]

can you

say one thing

and only one thing

decide on an opinion

[subtle tundra]

we lost aoe but its equal in dslice?

cause st is higher

[balmy condor]

our aoe is very similar

[subtle tundra]

isnt dtb simming in 10 0 5 like 10k higher

[grim jay]

It lost some execute tho

[balmy condor]

compared to what

[subtle tundra]

ic kb

[balmy condor]

yeah that's cause kb moved

who fucking cares about kb ic in 10.0.5

I'm comparing to now

[subtle tundra]

yes

im also doing that

-.-

[balmy condor]

kb ic is basically equal to dtb ic

in aoe and single target

I don't understand

what's the issue here

[pastel onyx]

[thorn crater]

i dont see how we lost aoe

if anything it would make more sense to say we lost more ST

since we dont have execute on bosses any more

but aoe should always be superior

[balmy condor]

[thorn crater]

am i wrong?

[balmy condor]

but dtb right now is more single target on bosses

[royal lantern]

[thorn crater]

did i do an oopsie?

[balmy condor]

how do we lose single target

going from a weaker single target

[thorn crater]

no zoldyck

[balmy condor]

to a stronger single target

okay?

[grim jay]

Whispyr about to implode

[zenith fox]

Dtb ic is better st than kb ic

[thorn crater]

i just read the messages above with varas btw

maybe im late to the party

[balmy condor]

does zoldyck magically create damage that doesn't exist and can't be simmed or something

why are people just saying "zoldyck"

[subtle tundra]

how does that make sense when you just said ic dtb is more st than current ic kb

[royal lantern]

zoldyck

[thorn crater]

ye its not my place

imma ge tmisunderstood

[subtle tundra]

ic dtb is more st but sims around the same in dslice so its less aoe, right???????????

[balmy condor]

okay varas

[subtle tundra]

surely that makes sense

[balmy condor]

I'm going to break this down to you

like a 5 year old

holy fucking shit

[subtle tundra]

show me sims

idc about your words

[balmy condor]

you're a dumbfuck

unreal

[subtle tundra]

we cant understand the same english

i live in romania you live in who-knows-where america

clearly cultural difference

[tacit oar]

[balmy condor]

KB/IC right now is more aoe than DTB. DTB is more single target. We can't go DTB/IC.

DTB/IC is possible in 10.0.5. Because you go IC, you lose single target, and gain aoe

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor the problem is imo, that many people think that KB is this giant ST dmg gain, IC AoE and DtB the weird mix of both

when in reality DtB is big in ST, and KB gets a bit hard carried by having 3x zoldyck skilled

[balmy condor]

I don't get

whats so difficult to understand

DTB right now is more single target, less aoe

DTB in 10.0.5 gains IC, which is less single target, more aoe

[subtle tundra]

i didnt mention current dtb a single time

[balmy condor]

these balance out

to roughly the same

[subtle tundra]

im not counting current dtb

[thorn crater]

i see the issue

[subtle tundra]

it was about ic

[tacit oar]

is aoe better in 10 0 5 ?

[thorn crater]

varas is talking about the future builds

not the current ones

[subtle tundra]

its current ic kb vs 10.0.5

[thorn crater]

while whispyr is taking into consideration and equating what the current builds are to the future ones

[zenith fox]

mixing future and present here that's the issue

[balmy condor]

varas read words please when I say "DTB right now is MORE"

More is a comparison to KB

[subtle tundra]

i wasnt even thinking about current dtb

[balmy condor]

okay

another try then

let's do something so braindead

even you would get it

lets do a tier list

[subtle tundra]

i dont care about current dtb

i wasnt comparing anything to it

[balmy condor]

varas shut the fuck up please

[subtle tundra]

it was ic kb in 10.0.2 vs ic dtb in 10.0.5

these pastas had 1 piece of chicken in them

im so sad

[balmy condor]

KB/IC right now:
B tier single target
A tier aoe

DTB right now:
A tier single target
B tier aoe

DTB/IC in 10.0.5:
B tier single target
A tier aoe

so when you say

that we're losing AoE from KB/IC

to DTB/IC

that doesn't make sense

do you see

do you understand

[royal lantern]

TIER LIST

[balmy condor]

do I need to make a visual aid

[subtle tundra]

but

[zenith fox]

That comparison actually does not make sense brother

[subtle tundra]

it does buddy cause its the best builds for both patches

but i saw ic dtb sim 90k in st on your spreadsheet
pretty sure ic kb NOW sims less, right?!?

[balmy condor]

you're fucking high

[subtle tundra]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

the BiS single target builds aren't even 90k

what are you on

[subtle tundra]

god damn its 80k

[balmy condor]

god damn holy shit

it's almost like I put those numbers there

[subtle tundra]

slightly off

[balmy condor]

specifically so you wouldn't try to run your mouth

over some feelcraft dumb shit

[subtle tundra]

youre wrong

[subtle tundra]

but im not feelcrafting anything?

[balmy condor]

varas I will lose my shit

[subtle tundra]

i dont feel things

[balmy condor]

you literally started this whole thing going "we lose damage wah

[subtle tundra]

YEA

[balmy condor]

off of nothing

[subtle tundra]

CAUSE I MISREAD

A NUMBER

[balmy condor]

but your own stupid brain

[subtle tundra]

WELL MISREMEMBER

thats why at some point i asked for sims(NUMBERS)

my brain needs NUMBERS

anyways

[grim jay]

1010101101

[subtle tundra]

sub still does way better dps

[echo cargo]

demean me daddy

[royal lantern]

then play sub, jesus

[subtle tundra]

I am playing sub

[floral glade]

yo folks, with the talent "dragon tempred blades" what poisons are better to use? (ST raid fights)

[balmy condor]

amp deadly

[floral glade]

ok tysm

[unreal kayak]

!log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pmtba2jYTJZ1dXAW#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=10

[obsidian parrot]

hi guys, we are starting mythic raiding tonight, but i have a question.

apparently tempered blade sim better for me

but i heard that kingsbane is better

ideas? for m raid

[balmy condor]

kingsbane is only really better on rasz

[royal lantern]

you think that this will still be the case when we get 10.0.5?

[balmy condor]

probably yeah

[royal lantern]

probs also depeens on how they change the fight

like, lets be honest, raz will see some nerfs anyway

[obsidian parrot]

but with the tempered blade i lose 1 zholdik and exanguinate

[balmy condor]

you don't lose exsanguinate

[obsidian parrot]

how can i make up for it?

[balmy condor]

you can run exsang

wdym how can you make up for it

didn't you just say it sims higher

[obsidian parrot]

yes like +800

[balmy condor]

so what do you need to make up

it's already better

[obsidian parrot]

but i was tryng to find where the better sim come from, the extra poison?

[royal lantern]

i mean, yeha???

thats what dtb does lol

[grim jay]

But you lose ST to gain it with DTB

[balmy condor]

need to find a 6th way to explain that taking more single target, and talenting into aoe, loses you single target

[grim jay]

Sometimes in life, you need to lose something first to gain something better.

[lament warren]

need to go to bed i think

sleepy time

5 am

[subtle tundra]

Please do

🤓

[balmy condor]

[lament warren]

practically speaking, answering class discord questions at 5 am is the original sin described in the bible

[polar gull]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[bronze pike]

Just passing through

[balmy condor]

yellow name

good

keep walking

#outlaw is the next channel down

[fleet imp]

Assa gamers, on M spider are you assigned to add or sending boss? Also KB seems the play due to soft enrage? 🙏

[bronze pike]

[balmy condor]

send boss

[bronze pike]

Your name color is a fruit

[fleet imp]

Any tip or trick?

SS is better than dying but a bit scuffed

[balmy condor]

I played KB and held everything for second spider for most of prog just so people could get used to getting to the end

it was cursed

like holding deathmark for 3:30

instead of using on 2

terrible stuff

but it killed the second spider, and that's the hard part

eventually when people got comfortable, I moved everything back onto boss and just cranked boss damage

[shell kraken]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[fleet imp]

Atm I am doing this, send boss on pull. Hold only kb for 2nd add. 3rd add exang puzzle and kb. And sending dm vanish on boss

[balmy condor]

yeah probably fine

but you will want to eventually move everything onto boss once your raid figures it out

I don't think assassination should be holding for adds at all

[subtle tundra]

Man I'm down bad for diurna

[balmy condor]

you sacrifice so much by holding and your damage to the add isn't even that impressive

[subtle tundra]

🤤

[balmy condor]

I was holding box, exsang, dm, kingsbane for second spider

and that put me in like

[fleet imp]

Our arcane not assigned to add so yea... someone has to carry that dps

[balmy condor]

barely the top 5

[fleet imp]

Bruh

This hurts

To read

[balmy condor]

yeah

[pure spoke]

I just read the whispyr varas clash, that was something

[balmy condor]

it hurt to play as well

but people eventually got their act together

and hit the spider

and I got the go ahead from raid lead to just full crank boss

[autumn valve]

do you recommend a more complete WA than the others?

[balmy condor]

all of those do the same thing, just visual mostly

[fleet imp]

Question... is it fine to send vanish dm even if not hitting boss?

[balmy condor]

uh

should be always hitting boss

[fleet imp]

The only cd that is important to keep attacking is kb right?

[balmy condor]

[fleet imp]

Cuz if you send dm vanish is during pull and than portal

You lose like 5-10 sec?

[balmy condor]

yeah, you have like 2 seconds of downtime on the stairs before kingsbane

but you should be hitting spider from the stairs before it comes up

and then you can hug rock for the pull in at the top

[untold mortar]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[fleet imp]

Yep i am a bit too safe i guess

But non attacking during dm is okish right? Like during kb is inting cuz you dont ramp dps

Or i got it wrong?

[balmy condor]

yeah it's okay-ish

it's not good

but it's okay

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1705693651?t=0h58m31s

here

that's a timestamped vod of our kill

[fleet imp]

Pog first rock is good

It has internal corner

Where you can get locked in

2nd and 3rd I am not sure

Will check it! 🙏

[balmy condor]

oh

it's actually the pull after that

was a quick wipe

whatever

you can figure it out

[fleet imp]

I think I can do it 😂

Nice nice

[royal lantern]

how hard is spooder boss in your opinion whisp

we start terros tonight, so spoder soon

[balmy condor]

like in general, or for rogue specifically

[royal lantern]

both

[winter gale]

Imo easy for rogue

[balmy condor]

in general I think if you can kill terros, spider isn't too much worse

[feral rivet]

Yeah rogue has it easy there

[balmy condor]

there's like 3 things on spider that sucks

[winter gale]

Only DH feels better there

Than rogue

But my guild is slow there, we are killing it in 7:30-8:00 mins

[balmy condor]

the big spiders on each platform will fuck you up, you gotta get everyone hard swapping until they can plan out their cds

the slippy ice will fuck people over

the stairs are rough until your warlock figures out where to put the gate every pull

once your raid figures that out

it's actually kinda easy

[winter gale]

Only thing I dont like is slippery floor when I need to clear

[balmy condor]

we had to tell people to stop trolling the webs

but yeh

not bad

for rogue you just abuse the fuck out of step

shadowstep actually ignores half the mechanics on the boss

it's crazy

[royal lantern]

where does step put you on the boss

[balmy condor]

in front of the boss

[royal lantern]

never tried lol

wait, does that mean you can get pulled down

and just step

[balmy condor]

yeh

[winter gale]

Yes

[balmy condor]

check the vod

[royal lantern]

what the fuck

[balmy condor]

I do it for every one

[royal lantern]

why do i run

[balmy condor]

also which one of you clowns

[royal lantern]

creating downtime by beeing a normal raider

[unreal kayak]

Only a legend would write that

[balmy condor]

I didn't even fully realize it at the time

but now I'm going back through the vod

and I'm like HUH

[drifting cloud]

light mode twitch demon

[balmy condor]

it keeps resetting on me

[unreal kayak]

discord lightmode bis

[balmy condor]

I read chat through obs anyways

that's dark mode

[subtle tundra]

How

Wtf

[fleet imp]

Big juicy long execute

[balmy condor]

wdym how

[subtle tundra]

How you get chat on obs

💀

[balmy condor]

it's a dock

it be right there

[subtle tundra]

Waaaaaat

Docking

[balmy condor]

teaching you things feels like I'm teaching a dog how to roll over

[subtle tundra]

That's cool

[shrewd night]

ye, why ar eyou running. You can abuse web/rock for every single one too

[subtle tundra]

Give me treats

[shrewd night]

https://tenor.com/view/why-are-you-running-why-are-you-running-away-pretty-liars1-nollywood-gif-16102856

[subtle tundra]

Or I won't learn

[balmy condor]

[royal lantern]

mate, didnt do mythic yet

and on heroic people drop the weebs on the raid entrance

[shrewd night]

[subtle tundra]

You step every one while you're falling

Impossible to die

[royal lantern]

yes varas, we had that 10min ago

[subtle tundra]

I step on you

You will like it

[balmy condor]

you'll have to forgive him, he seems especially slow today for some reason

[subtle tundra]

It's the tarkov man

Don't play tarkov

It fries even the friest of brains

[bronze pike]

Pog new tier list

[subtle tundra]

You're welcome

I made him do that

[bronze pike]

I’m very aware

[subtle tundra]

Stop with the pedo bears

[balmy condor]

[subtle tundra]

Speaking of bears

[bronze pike]

[subtle tundra]

Man puss in boots was so good

[bronze pike]

Yes

Shrek goated af

[subtle tundra]

No 😡 el Gato goes hard

[steel ridge]

DTB/IC is B Tier ST? 😮

[subtle tundra]

Yes

Cause you invest into ic

[bronze pike]

Let the kids enjoy puss and boots

The men will enjoy shrek 5

The shrekening

[royal lantern]

bruh, movie was legit good

[bronze pike]

Ya I agree

[winter gale]

Whispyr Varas is a love story, banter or real thing? 😂

[balmy condor]

love story/banter mostly

[dreamy gyro]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[burnt grotto]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[winter gale]

!varas

[subtle tundra]

Every relationship has its fights

I wouldn't know

[obsidian parrot]

should i get IC for Mythic Eranog?

[balmy condor]

nooooooooooooo

[obsidian parrot]

since he has a lot of adds

[trail tree]

No

[balmy condor]

definitely not

[trail tree]

Just tunnel boss

Adds dont exist, we play assa we sit boss😎

[obsidian parrot]

fan of knives to distribute all 4 poisons and than tunnel him?

[balmy condor]

the poisons won't do shit

just bone spike the big boy

and fok for cp

[trail tree]

Can do but i think just tunneling is better option

[balmy condor]

completely ignore the small adds

[obsidian parrot]

ok all clear

[trail tree]

In my group the adds insta died so fok wouldve been a waste of gcd for us

I think its a case of adapt and overcome

[steel ridge]

whispyr, how gimped am i on mythic kurog as sin?

[lament warren]

yeah

[oak sky]

Insert cope boss damage comment

[balmy condor]

not very

sin is fine

tisu played assa during the race

can't be that bad

[steel ridge]

🙂

[oak sky]

As long as the adds die before enrage your spec doesnt matter

Correct take alert

[steel ridge]

well outlaw does alot of useless aoe on the small stuff it seems

but i think my 2 target cleave is pretty much fine with sin

[lament warren]

it’s fine

[oak sky]

Outlaw has really good 2t for sure

But like

[steel ridge]

and ngl, ambush outlaw sucks ass

[oak sky]

If the add dies before enrage

It doesnt matter

[steel ridge]

we are only 14 pulls deep rn

[lament warren]

ya but it’s not like it’s a waste of damage

outlaw 2t allocation is almost zero

[oak sky]

Im playing outlaw

On kurog

[lament warren]

okay

[steel ridge]

but outlaw gets a 2T nerf next patch

and assa gets somewhat an execute buff for DTB 🙂

[lament warren]

sin is fine and sin 2t not even that bad

u have vanish dm for the adds 😎

that’s two empowered garrotes right there

[steel ridge]

yeah i think i will stick with sin for that fight, my gear is optimised for sin

my outlaw gear is shit

[oak sky]

I had to find a weapon and shit

Kind of a pain

[lament warren]

kurog is a boss dps check skill

[oak sky]

Its not that bad anymore

[lament warren]

the ad just dies to cleave

[oak sky]

It should mostly be outgeared at this point

[lament warren]

yeah if you’re good at the fight it’s not

but if you are progging it still is a bit

[oak sky]

Becoming good at the fight happens over progression

Thats kind of the point

[lament warren]

any guild still progging that fight rn will ofc want boss damage

cuz u want to kill before soft enrage

[royal lantern]

you mean, 99% of mythic guilds

[steel ridge]

yeah we started yesterday 😄

[lament warren]

dno i don’t look at the stats

[royal lantern]

like bruh, some of you guys really are in a bubble

[oak sky]

My guild hasnt really had to optimize for anything in particular and we're going to kill next time we fight the boss

So idk

[lament warren]

:d my bad then

[steel ridge]

it does feel like it sometimes

[royal lantern]

the normal CE Guild is like 3bosses in rn

or 2

[oak sky]

Like boss damage is good

[lament warren]

3-4

[oak sky]

Add damage is good

[lament warren]

i’m saying cleave damage is less important than boss damage

nothing matters but that point

[oak sky]

Nah late tier ce guilds can be like 2-3 in rn i think

[oak sky]

As long as you can push adds before enrage you have enough cleave

[lament warren]

sennarth kill is currently world 800

[oak sky]

But if you cant you should be getting more

[royal lantern]

starting terros tomorrow with 2day raiding

[oak sky]

Cleave still matters, we've had to swap to the add on a lot of pulls

[earnest imp]

We are right now stuck at Kurog with DPS issues

[steel ridge]

we are 2 day aswell with optional monday for gearing during first weeks

[subtle tundra]

Wait it has only been a month since raid release

[oak sky]

Yep

[earnest imp]

Running two Assa rogued not ideal either I guess

[subtle tundra]

Felt like 2 months

[oak sky]

2 months since xpac maybe

[lament warren]

that’s azure vaults draining your life force

[steel ridge]

i am the only child 😮

i have no competition and any i had in the past didnt last long

[lament warren]

yeesh

[steel ridge]

rogues are scarce

[lament warren]

i’m getting tired of being a melee dps player

i want to be a halondrus boomkin

[steel ridge]

melee is the only thing i can do

[lament warren]

silly little chicken player

[steel ridge]

positioning as range lmao, i would die every time

[subtle tundra]

I want to be free of this curse called world of warcraft

[lament warren]

same

[oak sky]

Quit

Touch grass

Go to the gym

[lament warren]

but nothing else to do

[oak sky]

Have fun and enjoy life

[lament warren]

haven’t attained my goals smoge

[subtle tundra]

Yea I would need something to occupy my time irl

[oak sky]

Theres a lot of other hobbies to pick up

[royal lantern]

ye, its a new guild that was made at DF launch, and i honestly cba going for wr anymore after my SL guild adventurer that made me quit the game, so im chilling and are happy with what the RL managed to do rn

[oak sky]

Reading and shit

[lament warren]

this mf said reading

[oak sky]

Reading is a good thing

[royal lantern]

reading is for NERDS

[subtle tundra]

Fr

[oak sky]

Everyone has something theyre interested in enough to read about

[subtle tundra]

When I won't have time for wow, I'll quit on the spot

[oak sky]

And if you cant find something to read about youre boring

[subtle tundra]

No remorse

[lament warren]

only wow

i like to read wow lore

[steel ridge]

yeah i am happy aswell, we have a little bit of mage situation sometimes, its hard to find mages

[royal lantern]

good mages, good dh and good hunters

the hardest players to find

[steel ridge]

we have 2 good hunters

[lament warren]

good rogues are hard to find as well

cuz nobody wants to play this class

[royal lantern]

not really, cus im a thing

topping dps

[turbid harbor]

Good enhance shams are rarest in my experience

[steel ridge]

we have some really good players that outperform our current worldrank, but we are held back by consistency of setup and time contraints

[oak sky]

I would think that rogue is pretty popular this tier since its basically the best class in the game

[lament warren]

you would think that wouldn’t you

[oak sky]

People love playing a fotm class

[royal lantern]

yes no

[oak sky]

Like of course rogue is generally not popular

[steel ridge]

yeah but not everyone has a rogue ready to roll and is able to pick it up on the spot

[royal lantern]

you get some shity fotm outlaws that do good dmg and nothing else

[normal mist]

Meanwhile me being the only rogue in my guild that raids for 3 expansions straight

[royal lantern]

thats rogue rn

[lament warren]

yet sin and sub combined have 10k parses

outlaw stands on its own as 18k

[steel ridge]

its funny cause so many were rerolling feral

but now feral sucks in ST

[royal lantern]

best thing about raid rogue is always: you can do w/e you want, nobody except you knows shit about the class anyway

[steel ridge]

sounds about right

everyone just screams about how op feint is

but no one knows its on gcd and costs energy

which makes it harder to time then most other personals

[spice surge]

it is pretty op though, since it actually works on most abilities now

[steel ridge]

yeah its very strong

[lament warren]

i spent 4 energy bars on feint on terros

[royal lantern]

the other classic is, most people thinking cloak works on everything

[steel ridge]

😄

[royal lantern]

or evasion actually beeing an ability that is worth binding

[steel ridge]

evasion is BiS

[royal lantern]

"dont you have evasion?" is something i hear atleast 3x a tier

[steel ridge]

it has saved countless pulls in m+ for me

[subtle tundra]

Evasion is so good

[steel ridge]

you can keep the pull rolling for 10 seconds, enough time for a brez and tricks to get everything in order

[subtle tundra]

You can stay in circles

[steel ridge]

you can evade so many physical aoe abilites aswell

melandrus f.e.

[royal lantern]

there is always that 2-3m+ mechanic you can use it on, and thats it

[steel ridge]

whirlwinds, spitefuls

[royal lantern]

raid? lmao

[steel ridge]

you could dodge the spears in pantheon

[subtle tundra]

Idc about raid

[hazy pendant]

!log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3xRB7XavPpMjyzhD#fight=133&type=damage-done&source=76

[acoustic sky]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[west gyro]

!neck

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.

[slim hamlet]

Just take elusiveness, now you have a 2 min 10% dr

[west gyro]

not taking evasion is like the worst ever take, like what? no shot

this aint real

[royal lantern]

[spice surge]

There certainly are cases in m+ where its useful, but broadly speaking its not very good

[royal lantern]

^

[west gyro]

🙂

[spice surge]

Id much rather have an actual wall than evasion except for those few cases (like fenryr or melandrus)

[balmy condor]

yah evasion is super niche

outside of spiteful or a tank dying you get close to 0 use out of it

[west gyro]

but thats the whole value, tanks die

a lot

be it prog, or high keys

[royal lantern]

like i said, it always has 2-3 uses in m+ and works for 1mechanic in a single fight every 2 raidtiers,and outside of that, the ability more or less does nothing

[balmy condor]

[royal lantern]

when tanks die

you wipe

lol

rogue is the LAST guy to get hit by the boss

[spice surge]

Do tanks really die though

[balmy condor]

his tanks seem to die

[dim mural]

Nice to have evasion when playing boon

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

what you dodging in boon?

[royal lantern]

like, you are litearlly #20 on threat as a rogue in all fights

[subtle tundra]

In no first pull area

The circle

Got you

[devout mirage]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[magic vine]

in the patch you can easily take evasiveness, thats a 10% dr on demand then 🙂

[balmy condor]

Aight sure, on that one pull yeah

[subtle tundra]

Uhh it's like 3 pulls

[balmy condor]

Over cheat?

[subtle tundra]

And you get 2 boon uses

Not elusiveness

Isn't evasiveness the new talent

[spice surge]

Need evasion for when my tank randomly turns around all the cleaving trash in halls of valor 🙂

[grim jay]

Actually had the occasional m+ run where evasion did save us as it gave us enough time to cr

[balmy condor]

Oh

That new thingy

[dim mural]

Whirlwind from trash before last boss AC and all the ground shit from trash before dragon boss nokhud for example

[balmy condor]

Idk what the fuck that does

I remember reading the new talent once and going “yeah whatever”

And then ignoring it

[magic vine]

cheat is a bit of a mixed bag for me honestly. sometimes its useful, but it can lead you to not figuring out mechanics as quickly

sort of depends on how dumb the fight is, and they also started making stuff go through death protection so you can't do real funky stuff with it these days

[subtle tundra]

Then it's a you problem

[grim jay]

Thats a bad habit and player issue then, since you should always try to figure out what hit you

[subtle tundra]

Cause you don't pay attention to your cheat

You should always notice you proc it

[spice surge]

"can i evasion/cloak this?" > proc cheat > nope

[magic vine]

on the other hand, extra dr is always helpful

[spice surge]

Assuming feint doesnt work on the thing youre trying to reduce ye

But from what ive seen feint actually works on most things now

In which case elusiveness does nothing, besides the measly 10% on evasion

[magic vine]

it gives evasion a flat 10% and anything feint doesn't work on a 20%

[royal lantern]

remember when it was 40%

and slowly got nerfed over and over down to 20% 🙂

[magic vine]

its just a question of which is more helpful to your group (which isn't the same for everyone): letting you recover from a mistake, or lowering healing burden by a small amount. if you're getting caught by stuff cheat death is way better for sure (or if like your tank in the m+ loves to turn frontals around or whatever)

[devout mirage]

ey guys, spirit fur set count with a embeleshment??

[royal lantern]

i know what you mean, but trust me, im constantly playing togheter with a healer friend, and it gives you insight that "lowering healer burden" is REALLY overrated cus they need to heal anyway

like, if aoe dmg happens and all people drop down to 40%, they will aoe heal, doesnt matter if 1guy is 60% instead

not saying "dont use deff stuff xdddd" but stuff like leech etc...is less important then it sounds unless it makes a situation where you dont need any healing at all

[balmy condor]

Imma be real, I don’t even know that the fuck that is

[grim jay]

Can blame for inefficient healing with the amount of overheal

[magic vine]

i play a lot with a friend who is a healer, and its something he actively likes that i do because it means when triaging the amount he has to worry about me is a lot lower. if the cooldown covers everyone anyways then yea its excessive, so i guess it can be a mixed bag there

[grim jay]

Thought I missed some verboten tech

[magic vine]

if your healers are blasting and not running into issues then no harm at all in swapping over to cd

[exotic robin]

Hello, I've just wanted to ask about my opener. Am I doing it right?

It feels a bit weak in my hands :<

[slim hamlet]

Wait

How the fuck did I miss that elusiveness makes feint a 15 sec 20%dr?

Does it actually just dr EVERYTHING 20%?

[royal lantern]

you dont read talents

[grim jay]

You sbs after the er rupture

[royal lantern]

yes

[slim hamlet]

I mean I rly do

[sturdy mesa]

[slim hamlet]

And I read that so many times, but for some reason I just didn't notice that

[royal lantern]

its the nerfed elusivness btw

was 40% once

[exotic robin]

So I should SBS after Rupture, right?

[slim hamlet]

Thought it was 10% dr on evasion and just made feint 60% aoe dr

[slim hamlet]

That sounds omega broken

Imagine if we could get both that and cheat

Actually a tank

[royal lantern]

still never picked a rogue over any other dps

[grim jay]

After the ER empowered rupture since you might not get one if you sbs before which is a dps loss for exs

[exotic robin]

Got it, thanks!

[balmy condor]

Yep looks good

The sbs stuff Obv an issue

But they handled that

Rest is good

[exotic robin]

Thx

[grim jay]

I identify as he/him

[balmy condor]

I won’t remember that

[grim jay]

[slim hamlet]

Is there any chance we spam envenom > CT for PB procs when playing AP

While shiv is spread

Wait

Do we even have PB when playing AP

[visual sequoia]

how much dps we gain if we delay vanish garrote in the opener (kb build)?

[royal lantern]

4

[balmy condor]

Like 1%

Maybe less

[balmy condor]

On like 3-4 targets sure yeah

[toxic sparrow]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[tiny ember]

Anyone know if feint works on the Dathea mythic platform dmg ?
or a way to checkc it

[craggy oak]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[thorn fjord]

Senarth fight is very much not fun

[stable pasture]

I feel like i'm doing something gigga wrong...

I never seem to his similar assas burst numbers to others

with similar ilvl like 410

But opener seems to follow what others do

pot should have been before dm though i suppose

[odd heath]

No exsang / no KB build is less bursty

[grim jay]

And you dont have/use puzzle

[stable pasture]

Yes true no puzzle

using grief

Puzzle is 392 so sims lower so yer makes sense

[cursive frost]

Sadge getting a good puzzle pushes you into exsang

[grim jay]

Just get it to 415 or farm a higher one before you upgrade

[stable pasture]

Really even on logs of peeps with 421 box they still running dtb

Just out of ease?

[thorn fjord]

DTB runs exsang now

with 4p

[stable pasture]

Gah Damn im running old build then with my 4 set

[cursive frost]

Yeah the box just pushes exsang because they line up

If you don’t have a box, you can still not run exsang and the sims should be pretty close. But with my 415 box dropping exsang is a 1k loss

And it also pushes KB ahead, though I just hate running it on anything but raz

[grim jay]

You dont line puzzle with exs

You line both with DM

[cursive frost]

Depends on fight length

[stable pasture]

Yer I still see a lot of the top 20 logs not using exsang

[royal lantern]

we call those people "based"

[grim jay]

Gotta accept the painful truth one day

[stable pasture]

Where do you use exsang in opener with dtt?

before deathmarkj

[royal lantern]

before DM yes

[cursive frost]

Yes, it’s shown in faq

Also shows where to use puzzle box

[royal lantern]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1037333062083678268/1052026886680760380/ST-KB-rota.png?width=810&height=284

just ignore KB

[stable pasture]

Ok box + kingsbane sims highest somehow, like 77.1k

[grim jay]

If you play DTB exs you might aswell play Kb exs

[stable pasture]

even with my 392 box

[cursive frost]

Kb just takes some practice getting used to if you have only used dtb so far

[royal lantern]

i mean, you slam KB on cd

[thorn fjord]

yeah

[cursive frost]

Like holding shiv and when to use cds

[thorn fjord]

every minute SMASH

make sure you got them shiv cd's up

[chilly viper]

smash - seeemash!

[royal lantern]

you use kb on cd, and dont use shiv outside of kb

[chilly viper]

https://tenor.com/view/suh-smash-smash-gif-15155688

[grim jay]

Its like literally KB smashing and saving shiv

[royal lantern]

thats all that changes

it all lines up

[thorn fjord]

At all? This ive been using it outside of KB window but been making sure i have 2 for KB when popped

[chilly viper]

that works too, you can sometimes time it

[cursive frost]

I don’t remember the timing on it when you can use shiv and it comes back up

Probably immediately when the first charge comes back up to be safe?

[royal lantern]

shiv is 25sec for a charge soooooo

[thorn fjord]

I dunno i spent the night doing senarth prog yesterday so my CD timing's were a little funky.. second DM was being sent at like 2:15-2:20 and other cds were a little funky because of the steps phase and me trying really hard not to die LOL

[thorn fjord]

yeah so maybe 1... 2 if you're really on top of it

But yeah i guess its better to play it safe

[cursive frost]

We start senarth this coming week and I’m dreading it

[thorn fjord]

Dude it sucks

I hate it

[royal lantern]

its a spider

ofc it sucks

[thorn fjord]

Weird thing is most of my guild loves the damn fight

[chilly viper]

Do yall just ignore the first add lol

[cursive frost]

Toxic

[thorn fjord]

I ignore the first add but focus the rest of them

[royal lantern]

there are people that like council fights

[thorn fjord]

GM wanted me on the first add but it was taking a huge chunk off of senarth dmg

[chilly viper]

sennarth is aight for me, council is cancer

[grim jay]

There were people that liked guldan M

[royal lantern]

sennarth as assa is a "i CAN help doing big spider, but it wont do much and we lose a good chunk boss dmg" situation

[thorn fjord]

First add tends to die alot faster than the rest so ive been able to just focus boss first floor

[cursive frost]

I’m considering running outlaw for senarth, just for QoL

[royal lantern]

🚪 👈

outlaw

go back into m+ with that warrior spec

[thorn fjord]

You can focus the rest of the adds and you wont really feel it

[cursive frost]

Lol

[thorn fjord]

but the first one.. fuck that Homie can vibe with the rest of the guild

[grim jay]

We are a rogue discord, no outlul allowed

Rogues use daggers

[thorn fjord]

OL uses a one dagger

[cursive frost]

Does the stairs generally come in our second DM window?

[thorn fjord]

How else are they supposed to butter their toast?

[grim jay]

DaggerSSSSS