assassination

[vapid sierra]

if in a key

[balmy condor]

with KB yes with DTB no

[brazen zodiac]

oh

good to know 👍

[mystic fractal]

Can’t stop getting mastery drops, is assa the spec that favors it the most?

[balmy condor]

not really

but mastery is fine

[slow viper]

i'm like 12k behind my quick sim is that normal?

[vapid sierra]

depends

did you sim wtih optimal buffs

and are slapping a training dummy?

[balmy condor]

12k behind on what, compared to a quick sim of what

[slow viper]

Terros

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[balmy condor]

and how much do you sim for

[vapid sierra]

if you simmed st patchwerk and went into terros and are 12k behind your probably doing something rotationally wrong

[oak sky]

I swear windfury is an external

Man

[spice spire]

Monk is also an external for me man

[slow viper]

and i pulled 49k on terros

[oak sky]

Rip

[slow viper]

47 on spider

[coral willow]

47 on spider with that sim is actually pretty good lol

i hate that fight

[balmy condor]

I sim 82 and did 75

58 to 47 is a little low I think

[slow viper]

i mean i know im not perfect in KB window but i cant figure out if im doing something rotationally wrong or not

[balmy condor]

I think I'll have time in like 20 minutes I can take a peek

[slow viper]

that would be awesome thank you

[strange python]

Do you have full uptime on the boss?

Unless you're forcing her to phase early you should be basically 100%

[slow viper]

by uptime i'm assuming you mean this?

[strange python]

Yep. If you have full uptime and your damage is that far off sim something is going wrong rotationally or you're missing buffs. I'll look

[regal hamlet]

do we have any idea yet if our damage in m+ will be more competitive with outlaw/sub next patch? or should i just bite the bullet and start learning one of the other 2

[strange python]

Unless you're going to MDI sin is strong

It will get stronger next patch. Who knows if it will catch up to sub and outlaw

[vapid sierra]

wait do you hold dm for trinket?

since dm comes off cooldown 1 min before tirnket

(puzzle box_

)

[balmy condor]

if you won't miss a cast, yeah

usually other way around though

you hold puzzle for dm

[vapid sierra]

ah so you hold your trinket for the third dm

[balmy condor]

yep

4 min puzzle and 4 min exsang

[remote heath]

[formal cliff]

[vapid sierra]

is it bad to overrwrite a normal garrote with a imrpoved one if not in pandemic

since its technically a waste

of energy

[balmy condor]

no

you lose more trying to a force a timing where you don't overwrite out of pandemic

[ember relic]

why is it getting stronger next patch

[strange python]

5 target shiv

[balmy condor]

rn seems like mostly just a utility talent tbh

you lose so much single target damage going arterial

[vapid sierra]

how much better is sins aoe looking now that you can take dtb+IC

more viable?

[balmy condor]

basically equal to now

[vapid sierra]

rip

[brazen zodiac]

it sounds cool

[balmy condor]

for what it is, it's really good

but what it is, is a 3-5 target niche

[brazen zodiac]

yeah, i guess if it were like, 8 like ct or ic itd be insane

i feel like most packs are either 2-3 or 8+ tbh

[balmy condor]

if it were 8 target it would be played

[brazen zodiac]

i hope i get mythic whisp or ring in vault

im sure it would! haha

[slow marsh]

vault is still tuesdays?

right?

for na anyways i guess

[balmy condor]

at 5 it's..... questionable if it sees play outside of raging weeks

[balmy condor]

yes

[slow marsh]

ty good sir

[brazen zodiac]

hey whisp would it be 2/5 theoretically speaking getting whisp or ring from vault? :o

[balmy condor]

huh

you mean council trinket?

[remote heath]

think he means vault items from just killing eranog and council

[balmy condor]

I think she's killed terros before

[remote heath]

oh

yeah that adds 2 or 3 more sadly

[balmy condor]

@brazen zodiac spider check

[remote heath]

atleast spider got some good loot

[brazen zodiac]

oh no we didnt kill terros

lemme check

[balmy condor]

then should be 1/5 chance for an icon

you only have 1 slot vault

[brazen zodiac]

ooo okie right

ok.

EZ.

i think my rl is gonna give me ring so hopefully i get icon :D

[remote heath]

honestly if you already got 2 415 or higher daggers you dont miss out on terros loot in your vault at all

[nocturne bough]

Has anyone had experience with the Ruby whelp shell? Is this better than grieftorch potentially?

[balmy condor]

pins

[lusty surge]

lets go

[remote heath]

the belt is alright but theres much better belts in dungeons that you can upgrade

[nocturne bough]

Ah okay

[remote heath]

still dont have a grieftorch

surely next reset

[brazen zodiac]

surely.

[remote heath]

[lusty surge]

wait

now lets go

[remote heath]

[balmy condor]

[lusty surge]

next reset fo sho

[remote heath]

nearly everyone in my raid has got that ring now

surely its my time soon

[brazen zodiac]

[lusty surge]

i literally just need tier shoulders and im done

[lusty surge]

huge

[remote heath]

its not the worst but the eranog ring flaming cowl combo would be so much better

[balmy condor]

I wonder how much a heroic grieftorch is

[lusty surge]

25 united states pesos

[brazen zodiac]

like how much someone would pay for it?

i can...uh..tell u >.<

[balmy condor]

no

how much dps it is

you fucking degenerate

[remote heath]

ive seen threads where a guy who looted it got offered wow tokens for it

its like 800~ dps for me if i can replace hunger of the pack with it

thats what droptimizer says atleast

though i bet that doesnt take my fellow raid members tragically dying in an accident in account

[balmy condor]

I'm running a sim

we'll see

yah okay sounds good

[remote heath]

i assume you got a 421 whispering icon?

[balmy condor]

yeah

[remote heath]

is that with all buffs too or does one of your tanks/healers not have one

[balmy condor]

full

we funneled one to each role

[remote heath]

yeah i guess the 424 torch is just crazy

yeah fair makes sense

[balmy condor]

now that I think about ti

I might not have any upgrades left from heroic

if heroic torch is worse

it's probably like diurna offhand

and that's it

[remote heath]

ya i only got tier upgrades and trinkets left but thats about it

[slow marsh]

ok so even though i was messing around with the talent tree a ton way back when it was first being shown off.....this is super cool to me

[hollow river]

[balmy condor]

I don't need heroic anymore

[remote heath]

[oak sky]

i still need gloves from heroic

[hollow river]

PvE gear actually seems very interesting this tier compared to the recent past

[oak sky]

theres some really shit things

tbh

[hollow river]

like?

[oak sky]

whelp shell!

[balmy condor]

I actually think it's way more boring

[hollow river]

but you gotta admit it's intriguing

really?

[balmy condor]

basically every slot is accounted for

[oak sky]

clicking something once a day, not being able to swap is intriguing?

[slow marsh]

whats the difference

[hollow river]

no i just mean the idea of it

[oak sky]

i dont love crafted embellishes much either

its just legendaries again

[hollow river]

you mean like BiS?

[oak sky]

which is meh

[balmy condor]

like you go:
cowl - crafted
lariat - crafted
shoulder - tier
cloak - crafted
chest - tier
bracers - random off piece
hands - tier
belt - random off piece
legs - tier
boots - random off piece
ring 1 - cos ring farm
ring 2 - diurna ring or random off piece
trinket 1 - puzzle box
trinket 2 - variable to some extent

[drifting cloud]

time to gear up your healer

[balmy condor]

and that isn't even like "well lmao bis of course"

that's just what everyone can farm

you farm cos for ring, you farm academy for box

and then everything else is tier/crafted

and you end up with like 4-5 slots that are random shit you just put on

[drifting cloud]

is puzzlebox ripbozo in .0.5?

[balmy condor]

but you're locked into 75% of your gear at this point

[balmy condor]

no?

why would it be

[remote heath]

nothing changes in .0.5

that would make it worse

[chilly canopy]

Is puzzlebox even real?

[remote heath]

F

i feel you

[slow marsh]

the new phial?

[drifting cloud]

hmm guess I never properly simmed it compared to other stuff in dtb bleed build

was usually kb

[hollow river]

the diurna ring is the one you pair with the other cantrip item isn't it? that seems kinda cool, though i'm sure annoying if it's BiS for a lot of classes

[oak sky]

it is

you pair it with a crafted gear piece that procs fire

[balmy condor]

yeah but you also just run flaring cowl without the ring

[hollow river]

ye the cowl

oof

[oak sky]

i kind of like when we have different statted pieces and we chase stuff with our best stats

vs a bazillion special effects and crafted special pieces

but idk maybe things would get too stale

[hollow river]

a little bit i feel

[drifting cloud]

its just classic blizz stuff, put random effect on stuff and act surprised its giga bis

atleast its not a dagger

[oak sky]

sylvanas daggers were pretty fun, but they were also just the highest ilvl item and had a special transmog etc

[remote heath]

haha dont jinx it who knows

might be some dagger like the bow from raszagath in the next raid

[balmy condor]

but yeah idk if I like this gearing honestly

gearing is actually so omega free

it's unreal

[hollow river]

PvP gearing for example is very narrow and rigid (only going to touch on this in this comment)
and the last time i chased PvE bis was Sanctum which was atrocious imo

[oak sky]

and people are asking for uncapped valor

😐

[balmy condor]

pve gearing is also pretty rigid

[remote heath]

i mean at this point it mightve as well been uncapped like

catalyst and uncapped valor is like 2 weeks too late

[oak sky]

not really

capped valor exists to slow us down

[remote heath]

i dont mind the cap honestly but i feel like 750 as a number is just

ass

[oak sky]

uncapping it later is good but if its too soon everyone feels obligated to do like 100 keys in week 1

yeah a bigger cap would be reasonable

[drifting cloud]

"at this point" literally 5th week of the raid

yeah catalyst sucks, rest is fine

[remote heath]

like its pog if you can upgrade your 405 cos ring to 415

but like anything else

takes 400

or more

[oak sky]

i think 10.0.5 would be a reasonable time to uncap the valor

idk if they're planning on doing that tho

[remote heath]

yeah im unsure if it comes at the same time or later

[drifting cloud]

wouldnt be surprised if its in the patchnotes

[oak sky]

like every post raid patch would be a good timeframe for that

[remote heath]

im just saving my valor until we know for sure

[oak sky]

catalyst should be soon enough that you can catalyze 1 piece around the time people start getting 4p naturally

so like week 4 ish maybe

they could even delay the 2nd charge for 2 weeks after

just 1 helps out a lot

[remote heath]

i think 1 a week is fair just for the people who dont for whatever reason touch the raid

like i know some peeps that love running some m+ but cant commit to a raiding guild/schedule

[slow marsh]

like me

[drifting cloud]

yeah if only you could pug raid whenever you wanted

[remote heath]

i mean you can sure but

hf rolling against 20 randoms

for the piece of tier you need

[oak sky]

vault exists

[remote heath]

what if ur unlucky

[slow marsh]

it's almost like that's been a thing for like ever or something idk

[oak sky]

and its not like youre guaranteed the piece you need in a guild lol

[drifting cloud]

my dude I got 4set this week

[oak sky]

tier is really common in vault

[drifting cloud]

im 6/8M

and you think you should have it by now without stepping into the raid lol

[remote heath]

ive had 1 piece of tier show up in vault since it became available

[oak sky]

have you filled out your vault slots every week?

[remote heath]

aside pvp ive done everything

[oak sky]

have you killed the tier bosses on all difficulties possible for you every week?

[remote heath]

if hes 6/8 id assume he did

[oak sky]

not you

not ryler

ryler got unlucky

it happens

i was the last 4p in my guild in sepulcher

[drifting cloud]

you can stack the odds pretty easily aswell but yeah catalyst a week or two earlier would have helped

[oak sky]

like yeah i really think the 4th week is fair

gives you 4 weeks of vault and content where you can theoretically get it

[remote heath]

[hollow river]

people who don't raid should have a better way of obtaining it before catalyst imo

[drifting cloud]

but just math it out, lets say 20 people thats 10 tokens hc, 10 tokens normal a week and you need 80 total

[oak sky]

blizzard doesn't want that tho unfortunately

[hollow river]

but it's hard to make that happen

[drifting cloud]

the vault helps so much already

[hollow river]

yeah i mean it'd just "force" people into playing every game mode which is always a feelsbad

[drifting cloud]

people who dont raid literally have the best chance of obtaining tier EVER

they just always want more

but god forbid youd go into normal raid, the hardest content in the game, whenever you wanted to because you can just pug

[oak sky]

just catalyst being open sooner would help a lot

for m+ and pvpers

[drifting cloud]

but they will always say they cant commit to a raiding schedule

[oak sky]

like obviously pvp sorta needs an accelerated gearing schedule but

[drifting cloud]

which is understandable, but then understand youre just not supposed to get tier at the same pace lol

[oak sky]

at least tier makes it not instant

[hollow river]

can you elaborate on this?

[drifting cloud]

whats to elaborate? you have vault and catalyst, those 2 things didnt exist last time tier sets existed before sepulcher

[hollow river]

yeah even if the bonuses were only active in that respective content i think that'd help tbf

[drifting cloud]

if anything if you think about it tier dropping in m+ row of vault makes the least sense but I dont mind they took that approach

same as how in raid row you can get tier without actually killing the boss that drops the token

[plain jewel]

just a question about mutilated flesh passive effect. Details says it increases envenom damage for each bleed, but i'm not sure where the effect is coming from. is it from doomblade talent?

[balmy condor]

yeh that's the wrong tooltip

[drifting cloud]

yeah doomblade, its named after a legendary from SL

[balmy condor]

it doesn't increase envenom damage

it used to when it was the legendary

[plain jewel]

thats what I thought. ty

[drifting cloud]

tooltip will surely get fixed before 10.3

[brazen zodiac]

[balmy condor]

you're a rep enjoyer right, how much does each hunting trophy give? is it 15?

trying to figure out how many grand hunts I need to farm

[drifting cloud]

yeah think its 15 across the board for all of them

[oak sky]

tbh i like tier being active in all modes and i think most do

[drifting cloud]

except the raid one is like 30

[oak sky]

i think if i was a pvper i would take the cost

[drifting cloud]

the weakaura you got is pretty accurate

[balmy condor]

yeah I'm on my laptop though

afking hunts at work

[drifting cloud]

if youre in like a 15-20 man raid

its 1.5h per level

rounded up I guess

[balmy condor]

you think there's raids for hunts in mid january buddy?

I haven't found a grand hunt raid in days

[drifting cloud]

atleast on eu ive seen them up to like 20 people but maybe its more common start of resets

but yeah they disband fast

[hollow river]

yeah don't get me wrong, i agree

[drifting cloud]

acquisition can definetly be annoying especially when youre extra unlucky but I dont know I guess no-tier alternatives are equally as bad

just subjective

[balmy condor]

poggers

[drifting cloud]

hope you did the centaur quests!

[balmy condor]

I still need to do aylang and my wq's

but the work wifi is no gud

[oak sky]

wait why are you getting centaru rep

just cuz?

[balmy condor]

alchemy knowledge

[slow marsh]

How important are specific professions in this xpac

i keep hearing about crafted gear but what does that mean

[balmy condor]

it's not important

[drifting cloud]

not important at all, whispyr is just the guilds alchemist

[slow marsh]

cool thanks

[drifting cloud]

I have 25 alch for longer flasks and 25 enchanting to diss stuff for pocket change

because epic shards actually have same value compared to other xpacs where they tank to 100g by now

[slow marsh]

so it's still mostly just money moves as to what professions you want while leveling ?

[balmy condor]

I would suggest not swapping professions

[drifting cloud]

crafters made insane gold during the raid opening or well some probably still do

[balmy condor]

professions are an expansion-long system now

you want to invest time into them

swapping back and forth makes you good at nothing

[slow marsh]

oh okies well that's good to know then. i'm assuming i should take a minute and figure what i want to roll with before i start leveling then

[oak sky]

crafted gear is the new legendaries

[hollow river]

there's almost no crafted gear you can't get with the new crafting system

i think the only items left that require you have a specific prof are the engineering items (and maybe a tailoring item iirc)

[slow marsh]

I just used to do professions based on farming my own raid pots and flasks but now i'm kind of questioning what I want to go for

so many options

[oak sky]

you can get tinkers without engi engi just crafts it

afaik

but

[hollow river]

did they change the items that require 1 engi?

[oak sky]

im pretty sure

[hollow river]

i heard they changed the tailoring item but i wasn't sure

[oak sky]

any can use the tinkers

but engi can remove the negative effeccts and shit

[hollow river]

afaik they all have ways to profit especially if you spend the 'talent points' in good ways

[ionic fox]

Anyone else getting gapp'd by other classes in HOV? i pulled 73k overall in a 20 and still was significantly lower 😛

[oak sky]

depends on key level and pull sizes tbh

[ionic fox]

I guess spitefull kinda hurting the overall

probably the issue

[drifting cloud]

@balmy condor can you mute kieron for an hour the man is mental booming in sub

[fringe field]

I wonder if it's worth to go 3 into Zoldyk, skip arterial and trade it in for bone spike? I really like both the talents but not sure which one is actually more cost effective

[oak pulsar]

!whysper

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[gloomy lake]

is anyone training a ruby whelp shell and if so are you doing it for ST damage or the crit buff?

nvm just saw your pin 🙂

[slow marsh]

I'm just catching up on build changes since early pre-prepatch stuff and all I can say is rip KB. I was excited to finally try you out but alas

[hollow river]

iirc KB can sim better depending on your gear n stuff

[slow marsh]

Oh well that's good to know then.

[drifting cloud]

yeah but it dies in .5

[slow marsh]

That's what I thought lol. Granted I'm completely lost on patch timeline right now.

I googled

[oak sky]

kb is gonna be worse when 10.0.5 drops tho

[slow marsh]

.5 patch coming just over a month after the raid seems pretty quick no? Or am I just scarred from shadowlands

[oak sky]

theyre doing a better patch schedule

2 patches between raids

[drifting cloud]

it hasnt been that fast since legion I believe

[slow marsh]

So there's .5 and .75 lol

[oak sky]

.5 and .7 yeah

their early timelines were winter 2023 and i think spring 2023

with the next raid summer 2023?

[slow marsh]

Well that's encouraging

[drifting cloud]

its not really a big patch tho is it? like half of it is stuff that could have been in launch

[oak sky]

so ~3 months

[drifting cloud]

[oak sky]

i mean

idk

it has new questing

talent updates

maybe trading post couldve been rushed for launch

[drifting cloud]

the druid tree was a mess on beta they just didnt fix it before launch

[oak sky]

but why not just keep working on stuff and make it good then release it in a small content patch

sin tree changes too

and mw monk

talent trees are iterative

theyve said that since the start

[drifting cloud]

I mean its fine its just thats why I dont care that much about the timeline

[slow marsh]

I'm much more of a fan of the smaller but more frequent patches as opposed to the typical underwhelming .5 patches of SL

[drifting cloud]

for the small patches, we will see when 10.1 will be

[oak sky]

i think theres gonna be like a quest thing that leads us to the next raid?

something like that?

like narrative wise

[slow marsh]

That would make sense

[oak sky]

i would assume they plan on putting questing, smaller feature improvements and balancing/ talent changes in every midpatch

[slow marsh]

I just need to know how much time I have to learn how to play again

[oak sky]

like wdym

until the next raid?

i would expect a 6 month tier

total

maybe 5

[slow marsh]

Yeah I mean I'm not gonna be going hard by any means but I'd like to dip my toes in again on a fresh raid patch

[drifting cloud]

anyway it will be better than SL because 3rd raid is confirmed for 2023

[oak sky]

yeah

looks like 10.1 will be somewhere between spring and summer 2023

[drifting cloud]

sanctum was something like august?

[oak sky]

so at the soonest like april or may i think

[drifting cloud]

actually it was july

[oak sky]

sanctum was july

i remember

[drifting cloud]

this raid could be may

[oak sky]

yeah

i wouldnt really expect it sooner than may tho

[drifting cloud]

oh definetly not

[oak sky]

you think theyre going for 5 raids?

[drifting cloud]

lmaoo no shot

[slow marsh]

Is the current raid pretty cool? I mean coming off sofo I'm assuming it felt quick

[drifting cloud]

I hope theres not some meme filler raid

[oak sky]

its nice and short, most of the bosses are pretty good tbh

the only one that actively tries to fuck you over is sennarth but even that is manageable

[drifting cloud]

raid is harder than sanctum

[oak sky]

^

pacing of the raid is excellent

difficulty curve is really good

dont think it was great for rwf

but low key fuck em

[slow marsh]

High key

[oak sky]

like not actually fuck em, but like for our purposes its a good difficulty curve

but also dont design the game for them blah blah

[slow marsh]

Yeah

[oak sky]

i think what happened for them is a lot of bosses got nerfed during prog

which doesnt affect us but is bad for them

but anyways

the difficulty scaling is good

first 2 easy, 2nd 2 slight challenge

2 wally bosses

[shut owl]

its a very chill raid if you're in an AOTC aiming guild. haven't gotten to play around with mythic yet

[oak sky]

a decently hard 2nd to last and a seemingly complex and maybe even fun endboss

[burnt latch]

It wouldve been

[slow marsh]

I think that'll be the biggest adjustment for me tbh is trying to raid casually lmao

[burnt latch]

If it wasnt for this fucking chicken

[oak sky]

they hate nerfing endboss before hof

[drifting cloud]

they will nerf

[burnt latch]

And i hate them

[drifting cloud]

how many pulls do you have

[oak sky]

do you like chicken outside the difficulty

[burnt latch]

Fun going from 50 pull bosses to a 350 pull boss

We’re on like 300 ish

[shut owl]

let AOTC be a goal rather than a starting line for midcore non-20person raid squads imo 😛

[burnt latch]

Its okay

[drifting cloud]

fuck me 300 and you guys are blasters

[burnt latch]

P1 is shite

P2 intermission is shite

[drifting cloud]

I guess if they nerf her in like 2-3 weeks would be perfect for me

[burnt latch]

P1 intermission, P2 and P3 are fun imo

[slow marsh]

That's going to be the hardest part for me lol

[oak sky]

oh right p2 intermission is awful

[shut owl]

roster boss?

[oak sky]

that has to be the worst part of the fight right

[burnt latch]

Its absolutely awful

Nothing fun about it

[slow marsh]

Na aotc is just a joke to me

[burnt latch]

Too many balls

[shut owl]

my current boss is trialing while mythics are still locked to realms XD

[oak sky]

are you fully unable to be in a scheduled group these days

[slow marsh]

It....depends

Mid week is out so pretty much

[oak sky]

because im sure if you just have a lower amount of time you could find a nice 2 day

[shut owl]

I mean... you could pug it. just prolly not fun to do so XD

[oak sky]

nah you cant pug mythic

[shut owl]

I meant AOTC

[oak sky]

not all the way

[slow marsh]

And idk if I can guarantee Friday sat either. Sat is pretty much my only real open night

[oak sky]

oh yeah aotc for sure

aotc is very puggable

[drifting cloud]

wdym aotc first 2 are easier to pug than aotc

if youre on a average realm

[shut owl]

I was ahead of the guild on heroic prog cuz of holidays lol

[burnt latch]

council heroic is harder than mythic prove me wrong

[shut owl]

wat

[oak sky]

the problem with mythic is the coordination requirements usually, not so much actual mechanical difficulty

[drifting cloud]

my friend plays with a guild that has 2/8m and Im pretty sure the only way they get aotc

is like 13 people max raid

[oak sky]

less bodies less fire

😈

[slow marsh]

Classic

[burnt latch]

Its insane what happens on that boss on heroic

I cant explain it

All i know is i never want to see another ranged player play a melee alt as their split character

[drifting cloud]

[oak sky]

tbh

raz heroic isnt that different from normal

[shut owl]

oddly enough, checks out. somehow I spent 3 hours on h council "prog" this week, despite being 7/8h last week

[burnt latch]

The double stacked sparks are quite hard tbh

[subtle tundra]

Just play well

So easy

[burnt latch]

Id imagine they cause pugs a lot of issues

[oak sky]

yeah for pugs ig

ive only pugged one boss this expac so far

[burnt latch]

Its a lot of cordination

And then those cunts decided to double the stacks for mythic

Who thought that would be fun

[drifting cloud]

ok but imagine a casual guild that just happens to have exactly 20 to go meme 2/8m

[burnt latch]

3 fps and whole raid wipes if one goes through

[drifting cloud]

my friend plays tank and he beats multiple people on boss dmg

[burnt latch]

[oak sky]

💀

[slow marsh]

Are there any painsmith type fights or robocrab

Is that what we're talking about essentially?

[burnt latch]

Not really

[oak sky]

we're talking about the endboss

[burnt latch]

Theres just a chicken

[oak sky]

theres no true wall this raid

[drifting cloud]

dathea probably shits on mediocre guilds

[burnt latch]

A mean chicken

[oak sky]

but theres difficult middle bosses

[slow marsh]

Oh that's chill then

[oak sky]

grimtotem and dathea are both relatively hard i guess

but not like crab or painsmith

[burnt latch]

The end boss takes as many pulls as all the 7 bosses combined

[oak sky]

i think having a wall but a shorter endboss is better

[burnt latch]

Imperative is on like 500 pulls lmao

[oak sky]

like

no giga long bosses

but a nice 150-200 pull endboss maybe

[drifting cloud]

imperative also has meme pull counts on every other boss

xd

[oak sky]

and a solid 60-100 wall boss

[slow marsh]

I prefer wall and then slightly harder end boss as in like 2-300 pulls

[oak sky]

then everything else 50 or less

[burnt latch]

150-200 pull endboss sounds good

[slow marsh]

After 300 fk that

[burnt latch]

It just gets so boring doing over 300

[slow marsh]

Yeah it really just drains you

[oak sky]

i mean after a certain point people just arent catching up

[burnt latch]

The issue is they made P1 the hardest part AGAIN

[drifting cloud]

honestly below 200 depending when I fight it sounds almost too little for me

just yeah dont be above 300-350 and were good

[oak sky]

you just wait for your worst players to not fuck up mechanics

and not have rng good players have a fluke bad play

[shut owl]

if we're gonna do 10+ minute bosses that take 300 pulls and have multiple phases, give us ff14 phase-practice mode as a requirement for pugs

[slow marsh]

It's not even the pugs

[burnt latch]

Welö tbh dont think they intend mythic end bosses to be done by pugs

[oak sky]

they only intend for pugs to get the first couple fights tbh

its an intro to mythic

[burnt latch]

Yeah

[slow marsh]

Its just the ding dong raiders who never get benched cuz they're buds with the rl or some shit

[oak sky]

i was a noob in 9.0 and i got 2/10

nearly 4/10

all pugs

[slow marsh]

I don't remember what I got in 9.0 but that's when I started too

Lemme check

[burnt latch]

I started in 9.0 and managed to get CE last week before 9.1

[drifting cloud]

eranog having 150mil hp only is kinda funny

[burnt latch]

Was pog

[oak sky]

yeah i just didnt have a guild

[drifting cloud]

wait you started in 9.0??

wtf

god damn finns

[burnt latch]

Yeah im a SL baby

[drifting cloud]

nerf racials

[slow marsh]

I got aotc in 9.0 a month after I played lmao

[oak sky]

i pugged with randoms and nearly got hungering down but the group started trolling and got inerva to 4%

[burnt latch]

Started in the best expac

[oak sky]

tbh

[slow marsh]

7/10m in 9.0.5

[oak sky]

it was mostly systems hell

the raids themselves were flawed but

i wouldnt call them bad

[drifting cloud]

CN was too long

[shut owl]

SL opening kinda a banger after the opening shart that was BfA imo

[drifting cloud]

the patch duration that is

[burnt latch]

I thought the raids were excellent

Didnt have any issues tbh

[oak sky]

sanctum fumbled some stuff

but like

[slow marsh]

Ye

[oak sky]

again

mostly systems

[shut owl]

CN was incredible

VERY RED. but incredible

[burnt latch]

I still think sanctum was ait

[oak sky]

sepulcher was too long but it had so many good bosses lol

[burnt latch]

Some stinkers but painsmith made up for all of em

[slow marsh]

CN was a banger raid I almost came back for the remaster just for CN but it was still SL

[burnt latch]

God damn that boss was good

[oak sky]

painsmith was great

[slow marsh]

I loved painsmith. I hated doing it with the groups I did

[shut owl]

fated season was hilarious.

[oak sky]

sylvanas was pretty good imo

just long

[slow marsh]

Na fuck sylv tho

[burnt latch]

Sylvanas was good if it didnt have p2

P2 was a slug

[shut owl]

having affliction locks signing up for pugs "but only if you put all the mods on" so they could parse was great

[drifting cloud]

p2 was so bad and she was a little too easy

[slow marsh]

Too damn long and too many people falling off the edges in p2

[neon kindle]

whats the string that checks for GCD on a macro?
like if i want to make one that casts one thing on a GCD then another?

[slow marsh]

Uhhh ask hunter disc don't they do that on all their specs now? Just slam one button

[oak sky]

we progged it really fast so it didnt feel that bad to me

[burnt latch]

Fair

[neon kindle]

ironically this is for my hunter alt haha

[shut owl]

is... that a thing? I thought we couldn't do that with macros still

[neon kindle]

u got the link?

[oak sky]

but like yeah p2 was the worst phase of course

mostly because of all the running

[slow marsh]

LMAO na I don't actually I just remember seeing it lately

[oak sky]

much better on mythic compared to heroic

[neon kindle]

no worries, i googled haha

[burnt latch]

P2 with only the boss burns or only the adds wouldve been cool

[slow marsh]

I'm sure you can Google it rq it has to do with cast sequence or something

[oak sky]

p2 without running dodging, thrall being stupid, bridges

also p1 intermission was way too long

[burnt latch]

Holes in the bridge

Good times

[oak sky]

but outside that

[slow marsh]

I would say if sylv only had like 2 platforms in p2 it'd be 10x better

[oak sky]

p3 was great

p1 was solid

[drifting cloud]

p3 was so boring for rogue pov

immortal with frost set

[oak sky]

nah you got to do soaks

and if you get an arrow you do the lil hop

[drifting cloud]

yeah the immune ones

[oak sky]

optimize your damage

[drifting cloud]

;d

[slow marsh]

I never liked p3 cuz I had to fill a range spot and couldn't pump.

[oak sky]

skill issue

[slow marsh]

It felt good soaking missed soaks tho

[burnt latch]

Thats an address the RL and call him a dog angle

[slow marsh]

Yeah true

[neon kindle]

tried

[burnt latch]

We had like a holy paladin in melee and a melee in range at some point

That didnt go down well

[oak sky]

we probably did too

our RL is a holy paladin

💀

[burnt latch]

[oak sky]

need my healing resource 🤓

[burnt latch]

Thats a true end boss

[oak sky]

hes cool but

yeah

[shut owl]

this has been a surprisingly melee-friendly raid

[oak sky]

holy paladin

[slow marsh]

Did people just not play sin at all for sofo or what

[oak sky]

wdym surprisingly

the past 3 raids have been melee friendly

[burnt latch]

^

[oak sky]

lot of people hated the tier set

[slow marsh]

I mean true but like

[shut owl]

my last time in mythic content was uldir

[oak sky]

and in s4 outlaw was just better

[slow marsh]

I quit pretty early on and still finished 113?

Weird to me

[oak sky]

public perception from rwf and early on said stay sub

[winter gale]

Do we need that Ruby Shell trinket?

[oak sky]

maybe

[shut owl]

and the primary purpose of melee then was to get mc'd and die first to herald

[oak sky]

well

[winter gale]

If so, do we atleast know what are we train it for?

[oak sky]

sanctum, sepulcher, and this raid are all very melee friendly

[shut owl]

and then two of your melee slots were taken by the holy pallys

[slow marsh]

Pins

[oak sky]

its super normal to play around half melee right now

[slow marsh]

It's still being looked into

[oak sky]

and melee are numerically strong right now too

[winter gale]

For raiding content

So, atm moment we can only assume what is the best IF any for that trinket? I will do what you guys say, trust is unbelievable here 👊🏻

My question is next, are you all waiting for definitive best or you already trained ?

[oak sky]

hard to say

i think i heard the aoe one is about 70% of the st one

which isnt too bad but also does aoe

vs going single target and getting the most out of that

[winter gale]

Yes, in the pins as well

[oak sky]

idk if there will be a definitive best answer

you just have to look at your own needs and decide if you would rather have a more st focused one or an aoe focused one

[winter gale]

I think I will go ST as I purely raid with assa, and I play outlaw on AoE bosses

[slow marsh]

Well going by the article it seems that if you train it for st it could still potentially do the aoe breath if there are adds so if you really want to train it now and not wait that's what I'd go with

But also don't listen to me I'm level 61

[brazen zodiac]

do the cobalt level strat

70 in like 2 hours lul

[slow marsh]

I'll look it up then

Cuz I cba about these quest stories

[brazen zodiac]

its more of a service u buy tbh if u sit in trade for like 15 minutes you'll see some spams for it lol

[winter gale]

And then come back here and type me the same advice. It will be more legit as you will be level 70

[brazen zodiac]

usually just a bunch of dudes giga juiced from cobalt powers that farm 2304892049823 mobs in 2 seconds

[winter gale]

😂

[brazen zodiac]

u should do the quests tho once u unlock additional % increase rep gains

and when u get dirt cuz it gives u something to do when ur picking dirt

[winter gale]

With an alt, do we need to do ANY storyline/campaign?

[oak sky]

think you have to do the campaign first time

[slow marsh]

Oh yeah I just looked it up and I'll just do it questing since I have my alts I'll eventually work on

Ye

[oak sky]

nah

only the spark quests pretty much

[winter gale]

Good

Are they catch up?

[oak sky]

yep

[winter gale]

Lovely

[oak sky]

its for gear

pretty much the only thing you have to do on alts is gear them

[winter gale]

Only thing that pushes me off is how expensive gear is

[slow marsh]

How expensive are we talking these days

[oak sky]

its just leggos 2.0

[winter gale]

Crafting orders, tips, consumables and I sit on 400-500k

[oak sky]

crafted gear isnt really that expensive anymore since its a few weeks in now

[slow marsh]

Sheesh I'm broke as a joke then

[oak sky]

depends on the person though

enchants are omega expensive though

[winter gale]

I burned through few tokens due to my server being low etc

Now sophic devotion 3 is 38k

[slow marsh]

I picked up mining/jc cuz that's always been my preference, should I go enchanting instead or will the market flood you think ?

[winter gale]

Illimoted diamond material for the gem is 40k

[oak sky]

use rank 2s until you inspire into r3

[oak sky]

nah do whatever

mining is really profitable for having a 0 floor

look for titan touched nodes

[slow marsh]

Bro you should know you can't tell me do whatever cuz I will

[oak sky]

rousing order sells pretty well

[slow marsh]

Oh bet I already tapped a titan touched earlier

[oak sky]

and khazgorite sells well if you can start dropping rank 2 and rank 3

gonna take a few weeks to get the skill for that though

ur making me want to go do a mining run

[slow marsh]

Yeah that's fine I'm more wanting to make sure I'm good for the long haul

[oak sky]

make a quick 20k

[slow marsh]

I was thinking blacksmithing just so I can craft my own weaps and not have to deal with it but I figure JC is more in demand long term

[oak sky]

jc is pretty good

i dont think anything is like an AWFUL option though

[slow marsh]

Yeah seems like they did a good job with it

[stray mural]

Recrafted my lariat and JC ring to crit mast and changed my gems to big mast little crit but now I have 15% haste with alacrity stacked

Is that normal

It simmed as 2.4% better

[brazen zodiac]

how do u feel about going double gathering?

[slow marsh]

It has always been my typical leveling strat before switching to double crafting but it seems like that won't really work with this new system

[brazen zodiac]

why do you think that?

[slow marsh]

Cuz you have to restart over with all the skills and inspirations and stuff

[oak sky]

i mean kinda

you get mettle from the initial profession tho

which is good

[slow marsh]

Idk what that is

[brazen zodiac]

oh.

[brazen zodiac]

your skills that you learn and apply stay, even if you swap.

or your knowledge points, i should say, not "skills"

mettle lets u craft specific gear and is required to recraft, and is also used to craft a reagent

[slow marsh]

Oh I see

[brazen zodiac]

u get it from learning new shit and doing quests and stuff basically lol, and from shards of knowledge

[slow marsh]

I mean I guess I could go mining / enchanting just to de all the random quest items since I doubt JC will really matter until 70 anywaya

[brazen zodiac]

uhh i dont know much about jc but that sounds about right

[slow marsh]

I'm gonna be reading up on a bunch of stuff over the weekend so I'll figure it out one way or another

[brazen zodiac]

i went mining and dumped like, all my points into skill and increase chance of getting rare stuff/ore and i mostly get t2, sometimes t3

mining was really nice in the beginning lol i trolled taking skinning as a gathering profession

[oak sky]

yeah if you want to go mining prioritize the main tree and the elemental tree

i think the illimited diamond one is ok if you already built up some skill

but definitely prioritize skill

[brazen zodiac]

ima be real

i know so many people who maxd that stuff and havent found a single diamond lmaoo

[surreal fractal]

I’m jc and without the lariat I feel so useless

[brazen zodiac]

do the diamonds drop in tiers? and if so, is there like a refining to them? i cant actually remember if they have tiers to them or not

[surreal fractal]

Got a couple diamond recipes I can make but I can’t even sell them on the ah. It has to be through orders

[oak sky]

ive gotten 3

[surreal fractal]

I’ve gotten 3 as well

[oak sky]

2 were in one node

[brazen zodiac]

holy shit LOL

my bf been mining since the start of the xpac and hasnt found one

guy made like 1m in 2 days on week 2 but just hasnt found 1 lmaoo

[surreal fractal]

They’re time gated too I believe

[oak sky]

you just have to prio the rich nodes i guess

i think perception is good too

[brazen zodiac]

i forgot what perception was again for mining is it the same as herb

spot rare goodies

[oak sky]

higher chance of bonus shit yeah

[brazen zodiac]

man skinning tree so bad

[oak sky]

salt diamonds khazhgorite

[narrow inlet]

Is assa playable in higher m+ too?

[raw raft]

for the most part?

like you probably can't do a world first level key as assa but you can go pretty high

[balmy condor]

yes

there's an assassination rogue in the top 10 rogues right now

so

it's clearly viable up till at LEAST 3k rating

[steel ridge]

once sin gets DTB+IC its going to bring the hurt.

[thick briar]

How bad is Sepsis vs Bone spike? I really want Sepsis to be viable lol

[balmy condor]

sepsis sucks right now

in 10.0.5 it can be okay

but it probably won't be played

because it's super giga janky

and turbo fucks all our cooldowns into a mess

[steel ridge]

90 seconds is just horrible idk

i hate when pairs of cd dont work, like shuriken tornado and flag

[balmy condor]

90 seconds and it gives essentially 30 seconds of imp gar

so if you use in opener

you delay vanish?

and you probably delay sepsis because stealth garrote

[vestal wren]

sepsis stealth could make it relevant for outlaw

[balmy condor]

so you get 20 seconds of stealth garrote

maybe 15-ish cause exsang

then you get 30 seconds of sepsis

so you vanish 45 seconds in

[steel ridge]

as a means to trigger opp with ambush

[balmy condor]

and then deathmark at 2 min

but it doesn't line up with the next sepsis

[vestal wren]

yes

[balmy condor]

and also doesn't line up with vanish?

idk

[pseudo hamlet]

How are you guys using CoS trinket in M+? It seems really powerful.
I guess we don't sync it with deathmark or we do? (both 2 min CD)

[balmy condor]

sepsis is turbo ass playstyle for assassination

[thick briar]

Got it, thanks for the input!

[balmy condor]

you mean whetstone?

[pseudo hamlet]

Yeah

[balmy condor]

oh

I mean you just press it on cooldown every 2 min

for the most part

you might hold for a big pack or something

but it just is click button do damage

[lament warren]

i think what happens with sepsis is that sepsis replaces vanish and then vanish is used as if you don’t have exsang right?

[pseudo hamlet]

Thanks!

[balmy condor]

idk why you would sync with deathmark

no interaction there

[steel ridge]

with whetstone you just have to make sure you are in range of targets for 6 seconds

and its done its deed

[balmy condor]

yeah but you want to vanish with deathmark

how do you do that

[lament warren]

you don’t

you just desync probably for uptime

[balmy condor]

that sounds

really bad

[lament warren]

yeah

lol

[balmy condor]

assassination has never desynced vanish from its cooldowns

ever

[lament warren]

but sepsis lines up with exsang

[balmy condor]

so

I'm gonna say probably not

on the vanish thingy

seems like a surefire way to do negative damage

[lament warren]

if you desync you get empowered garrote for every exsang

if you don’t you get for every dm

probably just better on dm

sepsis sucks

[balmy condor]

but we exsang every 4 min

[lament warren]

isn’t exsang 3

[pastel onyx]

we hold exsang for dm

[balmy condor]

yeah

but we hold it

we hold exsang + puzzle box for 4 min deathmark

[lament warren]

do you always hold? i send on fights i know will be 6min

ah

i have no puzzle box

[balmy condor]

well even without puzzle box you hold

puzzle box is just also a 3 min

and you also hold that

[oak sky]

yeah if you know its 6 mins of course you would hold

it would just be wasting a cast for no reason

[balmy condor]

sims don't

[lament warren]

you mean send

[balmy condor]

[oak sky]

send

sorry

im tired aaaaf

[balmy condor]

sims hold it in that situation too

[lament warren]

unfortunately casts don’t exist in a vacuum

[supple snow]

Basically sync everything with DM

[lament warren]

like everything else they’re relative

so apparently my sending is just badge

[balmy condor]

deathmark doubles bleeds

so if you exsang -> deathmark

you get 2 exsangs

for that cast

[lament warren]

yeah but they line back up at 6min

[balmy condor]

so even on 6 min

[lament warren]

you get 2 exsanged dms either way

[balmy condor]

yeah sure, if it's 6:40 or whatever

[lament warren]

yeah

[balmy condor]

but 6 min? you don't get another cast

[lament warren]

that’s what my terros kill was that’s why i sent exsang

[balmy condor]

sims don't seem to mind much though

cause they hold for 6:40

[lament warren]

i miscommunicated myself

[balmy condor]

exsang on it's own

with nothin attached

lowkey sucks

[lament warren]

yeah it just adds some ticks

[balmy condor]

and right now you don't get a vanish for it

so it's actually just an exsang of random non-empowered garbage

so with puzzle box I think it's probably worth missing that cast

without I think harder to justify

[lament warren]

yeah

that was my logic as well

[balmy condor]

yeh

[lament warren]

that’s why i sent

[balmy condor]

makes sense

[lament warren]

pog

[balmy condor]

farm a box tho bozo what are you doing

[lament warren]

i’ve been in whiplash

no guild guild dead new guild

i have not entered that many keystones

the one puzzle box that dropped i didn’t get 😔

[vestal cliff]

Is the box a better trinket than the ones from the raid?

[lament warren]

yeah

[vestal cliff]

Damn

I need one

[lament warren]

what if we actually just do not press sepsis in opener

[supple snow]

I’ve seen horn of valor doing well too

What do we think about that?

[balmy condor]

yeah, see the issue?

all logic with sepsis

is just so omega cursed

[lament warren]

i think farming hov for a worse trinket sounds infinitely more miserable than farming academy

yeah

it’s just an outlaw analog with sdance

it’s a conduit for uptime

[supple snow]

That is true. I just giga hate on cast and channel trinkets as a melee 😅

Hey @balmy condor

[lament warren]

that’s fair

[balmy condor]

hii

[lament warren]

can’t wait to play exsang and kb on ras

big exsang stocks

[thorn crater]

hi @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

hi

[thorn crater]

why do i feel the dry tone behind those 2 letters

wtf

[balmy condor]

would you prefer another i

hii @thorn crater

[thorn crater]

no

now its fake

i know it, you know it

[balmy condor]

[thorn crater]

sfine

[lament warren]

hi whispyr ^-^

[balmy condor]

hello

[lament warren]

:) hi

[verbal mantle]

Hello @balmy condor

[tender kelp]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[balmy condor]

[lament warren]

wow i would also like a waving emoji

[balmy condor]

[lament warren]

omg

hi

[flint tusk]

Anyone got some quick tips for using kb/ic in m+
Just gave it a try last night compared to my sub build st is definitely higher. But not super confident with the trash still decent i think be felt bad.

Or should i not even be bothering to learn the playstyle due to 10.0.5?

[nocturne current]

What tips you want?

[subtle tundra]

Sub is better tho

[nocturne current]

True, unless you have a high amount of targets sub is probably going to come on top

[subtle tundra]

Wat

Sub also comes on top on super high amounts of targets

Only thing assa is better than sub is on 2t

And not by much

[nocturne current]

Hmmm, with full mastery from the box and the 8 bleeds ticking, I dont think so

[grim jay]

there is no need to think

[subtle tundra]

I do think so

I know so

[grim jay]

you can just sim it

and you will see it

[pastel onyx]

[nocturne current]

I play with Outlaw, Sub and Assa m+ several times and in AA and high trash none come close.

[subtle tundra]

It's not quantum physics

Sub is the best aoe spec

[nocturne current]

And we all have relatively the same iLvl

[subtle tundra]

Big aoe for assa

[pastel onyx]

ye varas u dont know shit

[grim jay]

AA is literally THE sub dungeon

wdym

😄

[oak sky]

I mean thats just anecdotal

[pastel onyx]

[subtle tundra]

Yea bro you played with some Lidl rogues and they did bad damage

Very suprising

Watch any good sub in aa

[nocturne current]

What.. We're all 2700+

[subtle tundra]

They do like 10% more overall

[oak sky]

I would bet money that sub aoe falls off less as you pass 8 targets compared to sin

[subtle tundra]

That's nothing to brag about tho

[grim jay]

actually maybe even more on AA 😄

[nocturne current]

Yeah but it's not Lidl either.

[subtle tundra]

It's like doing 20s

Buddy please don't say assa is better at big aoe than sub when it's so wrong

[nocturne current]

Like if sub has to move from AA spits and constant movement, nothing beats bleed ticks at high mastery

[subtle tundra]

[grim jay]

bro