assassination

[vestal wren]

if you play dtb you end up doing very similar dps to within execute

and the gap between execute/no execute closes

[earnest imp]

Yeah I play the DTB 2 pointer execute

And he plays dtb bleed variant with. 1point

Judging from your picture the builds are very close

[vestal wren]

for progress, i think it is more times than not important to play what you can perform on

dtb is easier to execute and can be build with less buttons

[rigid tartan]

Depends on your comp, I had to prio bossdps and only got to put bleeds on adds when I didn’t need to press stuff on boss. My progress cds were scuffed by me playing bad but:
1st cds on boss, 2nd cds on thundering add, 3rd cds boss, 4th cds on frozen destroyer, 5th cds boss. This still brought me to top dps spots for boss dps despite me delaying my cds resulting in an almost complete loss of cd uptime on frozen destroyer and only 6 seconds on execute boss phase

[earnest imp]

But I do way less still before execute, he does sim like 4k more

[vestal wren]

so even if KB would end up being the stronger choice, you might skip on it to have less room of failure

[winter gale]

Is this ok?

Wait

[earnest imp]

How do you pass the bleeds on the first add in opener Pugnaxa?

I've been winging it and I don't like it

[rigid tartan]

But you need to atleast pump thundering add with cds timing wise. Always pop cds asap on those targets so you don’t lose uptime like me. On progress you will maybe get full value on frozen add execute with cds rolling and on boss last phase complete execute with cds

[winter gale]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/abxwE9DkXtKP8ZborLEFVe

[earnest imp]

Think when I go into vanish garrote I set bleeds on the add, timing is ok with it

[rigid tartan]

Don’t worry much about first add and just put bleeds on it after opener or vanish garotte during opener is a moment you can spend that global on the add

[storm onyx]

Depends on raid dmg output too. If raid is having hard time meeting some timers, then it doesn't make sense to use a build that packs bulk of our dmg in last 1/3-1/4 of the fight

[rigid tartan]

Our comp had 2 fury warriors and in general lots of cleave

We were shorter on the bossdam

[earnest imp]

And when thundering and fire fella come, we have IC up, do you vanish garrote both or just the thundering?

Not IC lol

Dm

[rigid tartan]

Depends on positioning and mechanics if that is feasible for you

[earnest imp]

I've gotten aids fucking around with that

[rigid tartan]

But pop cds insta on thundering so you don’t cuck your timings for 4th and 5th cds like me

[earnest imp]

Maybe it's better to just ram the thundering

[rigid tartan]

That is always the right thing

As soon as thundering is dead the phase becomes more chill anyway

Same with frozen

[grim jay]

I mean aside from the extra keybind, I dont think KB is way more difficult than dtb

[rigid tartan]

If you instapop on thundering and then after again on boss as cds come up you should get the cds after up for the lower half of frozen destroyer add hp and get good value there as well

[vestal wren]

compared to this

[rigid tartan]

If you don’t get value on frozen though, consider delaying 4th cds for boss

[vestal wren]

vs.

[storm onyx]

Explain that to two tanks who just 'do their thing' and move as they please )

[grim jay]

Oh ye right, I assumed exs on both

[vestal wren]

you got to maanage exsang and kingsbane, both are more complex

both with exsang sim within low margin of each other

[grim jay]

Tbf I think Kb has more value on progress and some specific things than dtb, not just higher sims

[vestal wren]

still means you need to play around kingsbane, while dtb does not need a lot of thought

[strange python]

any sims on the little dragon trinket yet

[grim jay]

Yell at them

[strange python]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHmP9knm744

[vestal wren]

not yet, soon

what is that kama?

[rigid tartan]

Btw my raidlead thought it was still the wrong play to not go outlaw for kurog because we had an evoker funnel into earth add instead of boss so if I was higher on that add maybe more bossdam. But I was like well last phase needed to be over quick and thundering add I was top dps plus more bossdam even with my mistakes than outlaw could do

[strange python]

what is what? the ruby whelp trinket or what

gromnak clip?

[vestal wren]

the youtube video you linked

i didn't understant the context

[strange python]

oh well related to :)

[rigid tartan]

But gameplay wise I struggle to perform on outlaw on progress a lot

[strange python]

ill try to sneak in sin on our kurog reclear next week

[grim jay]

Dont ever let people bait you into smth you dont like or dont want

[strange python]

getting like a 20 parse on both kurog and broodkeeper on outlaw

20th percentile that is

[rigid tartan]

You might find that you won’t get full value on frozen destroyer add with your 4th cds. The rank 1 boss damage assa delayed 4th cds to boss after that second intermission adds were dead

[strange python]

yeah i mean intermission dps isnt that big of a deal

[grim jay]

Even tho outlaw might have the better overall, there are still reasons sub might be better, sin aswell probably

[rigid tartan]

Don’t look at my dathea outlaw

[minor valve]

~~Am I crazy or is Poison Bomb not showing up in Warcraft logs? ~~

I see, it's under envenom. Nothing to see here.
Example: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/L61Y3yc9hpazBrQX#fight=16&type=damage-done&translate=true&source=19
Example: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/H6m9yB7V1Z8G2rR4~~

[grim jay]

The issue sin has on kurog is timing

[strange python]

well i imagine you do cds on pull > then on first intermission to lightning add > then on earth altar > and then hold the whole intermission for last phase

dont really know what talent set i should run tho if just dt bleed variant with ct is fine or if i should go kingsbane

[rigid tartan]

I wouldn’t say earth and boss instead, that’s what my guild wanted atleast but earth was my initial thought as well and people were nagging about my bossdps up until last phase then

[strange python]

oh i mean not earth add

just when youre on the earth altar phase

obv on boss

[prime current]

it's under envenom

[minor valve]

Thanks!

[cold spoke]

anyone has filter expression to check casts during shiv?

or the whole data model to query on cant seem to find it anywhere

[balmy condor]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/d1ZhjX97ATyr8pk4/#fight=11&source=173&type=casts&pins=2%24Off%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%241%24157523353.0.0.Rogue|187967.0.0.Boss%24157523353.0.0.Rogue%24true%24187967.0.0.Boss%24true%24319504%24true%24false%2495

You set up a pin like that

But im not sure why you would want to do that

Not a lot of useful Info there

[cunning locust]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[grim jay]

bUt MaXiMiZiNg EnVeNoM cAsTs AnD bUfF uPtImE

[balmy condor]

Idk just hit shiv

[grim jay]

Kinda

[exotic robin]

Yo, what you preffer in m+ guys? Windscar whetsone or puzzlebox?

[marsh lodge]

Depends on the week

tyran = puzzlebox fort = whetstone

[exotic robin]

Great, I see the point

Thx

[marsh lodge]

Np

[strange python]

guys can you anyone please post or share WA for thundering? that one with highlighting party frames, ty

[quasi osprey]

wouldnt it be the other way around since whetstone is ST oriented?

[flint tusk]

hu?

[quasi osprey]

from monk discord

[scenic sky]

https://wago.io/7I9nLveu5
Dont use it myself as i can see it perfectly fine with Elvu, but saw someone post this.

[flint tusk]

Fuu disagrees

he wouldn't put a "singletarget on use trinket for dungeon slice" if it was true surely

[blissful forge]

Doot

[balmy condor]

rogue conversation
monk said thing
hmmmge

[quasi osprey]

trink works the same way no matter the class no?

[balmy condor]

Yeah but Assassination puzzle box is not great in aoe

And whetstone very much is

[quasi osprey]

there you go then, thank you for answer

[blissful forge]

Can you read how he meants it? Those are just the bis trinkets you can get from m+, not overall for m+ @flint tusk

[flint tusk]

Bis trinkets you can get from m+ = not overall for m+

what?

[blissful forge]

Dude

Those are not the bis trinkets overall

Only the best trinkets you can get out of m+

Maybe my language was kinda missunderstanding here

[flint tusk]

so a dungeon slice simulation is using a situational trinket for specific affixs

you can get puzzle box and whetstone from m+

[blissful forge]

Yes but those arent the best trinkets for m+

[flint tusk]

bro these are literally the bis trinkets FOR m+

[halcyon dagger]

any assiassin mains reccomned talnt build for 3v3 arena?

[lament warren]

you don’t play exsang in m+

[balmy condor]

#pvp

[lament warren]

so ofc whetstone is large

[blissful forge]

You a npc or so?

[flint tusk]

can you not read?

[blissful forge]

Those are NOT the BIS TRINKETS overall

[balmy condor]

[quasi osprey]

2 columns. one is BiS from all sources. one is BiS from m+. Whetstone is not on the all sources one

[little light]

[lament warren]

you are the exception

[lament warren]

you are allowed to play whatever you want whispyr

😊

[balmy condor]

Oh perfect, I’m not playing exsang then

[chrome peak]

Be honest, BigWigs vs. DBM, what's your go-to, guys?

[lament warren]

based

bigwigs

[balmy condor]

Bigwigs

[blissful forge]

Dude im not gonna answer to this, learn how to read the sheet pls @flint tusk

[marsh lodge]

What curse was trying to say is that its not telling you what is bis for M+, its telling you what items are bis out of m+ content

[lament warren]

maybe fuu is purposefully sandbagging 15k dps on sims from puzzle box

deep state sub rogue conspiracy

[blissful forge]

THANKS

[lament warren]

it’s telling you both actually

[turbid mulch]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[blissful forge]

Yes exactly, you only need to know how to read the sheet (:

[flint tusk]

but i don't understand this is the BIS setup for dungeon slice for m+ i'm not sure if i'm crossing wires or something

[blissful forge]

Boon+Icon are best dslice

Overall

[lament warren]

[marsh lodge]

Those trinkets on the BiS M+ are the best simming trinkets from m+

[blissful forge]

Whetstone+HotP only best that you can get out of m+

[lament warren]

just play whelp

[marsh lodge]

^

whelp op

[blissful forge]

This

[marsh lodge]

train it to give you crit and go nuts lol

[quasi osprey]

you say "dungeon slice for m+" as if theres a "dungeon slice for ST". dungeon slice is, generally, for m+.

[lament warren]

cons: you have to train it for a week

pros: little friend

+1 party member is op for raids and dungeons

[marsh lodge]

is there a way to sim the trinket trained into the different things?

[blissful forge]

I wish rogue wasnt meta so not all of the fotm rerollers come here and ask self explanatory questions

[lament warren]

i’m a fotm reroller

i love fotm

[balmy condor]

No

[lament warren]

and when another class is both fun and good i will spread my plague to their tcs as well

[marsh lodge]

sadge

[blissful forge]

Yeah but you got a brain apperantly and you can read the sheet correctly

[lament warren]

that’s true i am probably the smartest wow player to ever exist

[marsh lodge]

guess i'll never touch that trinket cuz once you level it you cant go back 😎

[lament warren]

maybe only #2 to swifty in his prime (2006)

have you seen his incredible warrior tricks?

pretty sick

[quasi osprey]

blizz cs boutta get some dps fiends in their tickets

[thorn crater]

I see too much teal

Need more red

[fluid sphinx]

hey guys im relativly new to wow and rogue in general, tried out outlaw (which i dont like to play) and sub (not sure about).. want to try sin; would you say assa is hard to play for m+ content rotation-wise?

[balmy condor]

? You just level something else for a week

[lament warren]

hardest of the 3

[marsh lodge]

Oh, then my guild mate was wrong lol

[balmy condor]

You can keep using the trinket

If you want to train something else

You just do

And then it take a point out of the thing before

And puts it into the new thing

[quasi osprey]

another convoluted blizzard system smh

[lament warren]

it’s just a silly trinket

that’s most likely not bis for anyone but maybe tanks

[thorn crater]

I dno about that

Manic levels of dmg on a non active

Sounds good

[marsh lodge]

^

[magic vine]

either (a) those reports aren't accurate (/or are insane high rolls), or (b) it'll get nerfed

[thorn crater]

Why

[flint tusk]

so we're agreeing what dungeon slice is xD

[thorn crater]

Why would it get nerfed

Your logic makes no sense

It takes a week to get it to that level and it has to be at similar ilvl to manic

Why would a different trinket not be as strong?

[lament warren]

grieftorch eating two globals is kind of not a real opportunity cost

[thorn crater]

ESP the single target ability has no reason to get nerfed

And this has a 1 minute internal

That can highly vary

And it still just comes ahead

?

[lament warren]

and i’ve seen absolutely zero evidence that the whelp is consistently that good

i’ve seen the one post by the vdh

with the claim that it’s as good as grieftorch or better

[thorn crater]

I’m replying to zypher saying it’s gonna get nerfed

By stating there is no reason for that

[magic vine]

i think we can agree that grieftorch is already a very strong trinket?

[thorn crater]

So? We can’t have strong trinkets?

The point is there is a variance from the procc chance

That post was most likely the highest of highs

[lament warren]

i’m replying to this

[magic vine]

so if you have a trinket that is outperforming something that is already strong but is an active use, its likely that it'd get tuned down, ie nerfed

[thorn crater]

Ye ye I get you but we just don’t know yet if it’s gonna be bis or not. And hence saying it will get nerfed if it is better than grieftorch is asinine

[lament warren]

i imagine the haste proc will be very good for tanks and healers but they already have competitive trinket options as well

so i can’t in good faith believe the trinket will be worth using

[thorn crater]

That’s valid ye

We need more evidence

[balmy condor]

The more I see the more skeptical I get tbh

[subtle tundra]

Stop seeing. Believe.

[lament warren]

god’s not dead he’s surely alive

[balmy condor]

The damage from the procs are super rng, sometimes you get like 10 hits in 4 minutes sometimes you get 1

The stat proc doesn’t scale apparently, or it scales weirdly, and it doesn’t reset the internal cd on wipes so you don’t get it on pull sometimes for no reason

[lament warren]

oh no

it’s not rppm

it’s flat rng scaling with exp

[balmy condor]

There’s so much random rng/buggy shit about the trinket

That just is hard to nail down

Cause people will always want to link “super poggers look at this whelpling dps”

But they won’t really link it if it’s mid af

So idk where the true value is on it at all

[lament warren]

mid ones will be buried in the feral discord for sure

where they link anything

[balmy condor]

But I’ve seen it logs where it does like 8.5% and beat grieftorch, and then the next pull it doesn’t proc for a 50 seconds, procs twice, and then doesn’t proc for the rest of the fight and it’s doing like 1% lmao

[lament warren]

it not resetting internal cd on wipes just really points to it being not rppm to me

[sour hinge]

Can anyone tell me why my envenom DPS is so lacking? Getting like 4 - 8k less DPS on envenom each fight. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

[balmy condor]

I mean the entire thing is a shitfest

[sour hinge]

!logs

[lament warren]

and if it’s not rppm it’s absolutely not worth using even

ever

[subtle tundra]

Sometimes I will piss and miss the toilet

Like the trinket

[viscid spear]

Just sit

[grim jay]

What did I just read

[subtle tundra]

I do a lot of the time

[chrome peak]

Hmm would getting an LFR grieftorch be worth it?

[timber basalt]

how do i remove embellishment in droptimiser?

[grim jay]

Sim sim sim sim sim

[balmy condor]

Depends what you’re comparing to

Is an LFR grieftorch worth for someone who’s 2400 and valor capped? Probably not

Is it worth for a 3/8 normal raider who pushes +6’s for their vault?

Yeah probably

[chrome peak]

Alright, ty, I'll sim it

[grim jay]

I mean. Im 2600 and valorcapped with no bracers to upgrade sitting on 382

[timber basalt]

surely use a spark

[balmy condor]

Farm bracers?

[chrome peak]

I have 396 and my chest is 376

[grim jay]

I do

Actually

[chrome peak]

The druids keep needing on the leather and winning

[grim jay]

1 x bracers dropped so far

[balmy condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4gU12T7tHJ9G7sQqJfwvAq

Just be better

Idk

[chrome peak]

Vulpera

[balmy condor]

What do I use valor on now

Do I just valor random shit?

[timber basalt]

farm sbg dagger obviously

[balmy condor]

For fun?

[balmy condor]

Stat side grades

[blissful crown]

I still only have puzzle 376, 1/13, dno if i should pump valor in to that shit

Or just farm more AA

😄

[zinc frost]

Daddy Whispyr with the absolute stacked gear and sim

[grim jay]

https://tenor.com/view/yttd-joe-tazuna-your-turn-to-die-gif-24096462

[balmy condor]

I got lucky

But now also idk what to do anymore

[brazen zodiac]

hi whisp

good morning

[balmy condor]

Just smash my face into kurog for another 400 pulls before my raid lead figures out that 4 healing kurog is braindead

[balmy condor]

Hello

[grim jay]

Sounds reasonable

[brazen zodiac]

lol

did u kill da boss

[balmy condor]

We kill spider yes

I parse good on spider

[subtle tundra]

Kurog is very tight dps and heal until everyone is comfy

[balmy condor]

Yeah I bet it’s really tight when we’re ticking to death on fire going into first intermission because we’re 4 healing

[brazen zodiac]

gotta say the two walls of painsmith coming in is kinda based

cool mechanic im sure they done it b4 tho lmao

[balmy condor]

Does this look like healing that could be sustained for 9 minutes straight?

I’m suspicious

[subtle tundra]

Bit sussy

[weak isle]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

Idk

4 healing is real dumb

And he’s gonna realize that

And then we’re gonna have to reprog the whole fight

Because the add damage needs to go up

Very cool thanks

[lament warren]

i wish my sim were 80k

i’m just a 74k andy

[grim jay]

Saw that

"Easy, lets go 4"

[lament warren]

i’m not sure kurog is a tight damage check anymore

my guild killed it really fast this week

can just throw another healer up for prog i think

[balmy condor]

There is one single kill of kurog 4 healing

[frail niche]

Is going double spark dagger the play? Got one for MH, but unsure what to spend 4th spark on.

[lament warren]

you can sim them

droptimizer

[grim jay]

Yeah RL sometimes come up with the weirdest stuff

[lament warren]

epic professions

[balmy condor]

Mainhand Dagger -> lariat -> cowl and then just off piece whatever

[lament warren]

i’ll never be tricked into crafting a cowl

[frail niche]

Sure. Ty.

[timber basalt]

how do i remove an embellishment in droptimiser

[lament warren]

i’m a boots andy

[little light]

I simmed epic professions and Lariat sims worse than my Torhc of Time with mastery embelishment on ST, that surely is cause it assumed 100% uptime on that?

[balmy condor]

Edit the bonus id’s out of the item

[balmy condor]

Ye

[timber basalt]

like all of them?

[lament warren]

gear compare -> do a quick sim with the item with your stats -> scroll down to raw input -> look for the copy with that name -> copy the weapon string

[balmy condor]

The embellishment ones

[timber basalt]

yes but how do I know which bonus ids are for the embellishment

[grim jay]

Same for me as we were at terros with a dd that played heal bcs the mainheal was sick. -> lets pop all the debuffs together at the same time. Worked well

[lament warren]

just do patchwerk 30 seconds 1 boss gear compare sim is the least technical method

[timber basalt]

i guess that should've been my question to start with tbh

[balmy condor]

Trial and error or look it up on GitHub

[vapid pawn]

Hey lads, anyone knows if KB debuff stacks can be tracked and the spell ID?

[lament warren]

think every guild pops all debuffs together

[balmy condor]

Not easily, needs custom code to count poison applications during KB by hand. Super useless information don’t bother

[grim jay]

Maybe, but not with basically 3,25 heals

[lament warren]

epic insane prog hack

world rank exploit

give healers gear

[balmy condor]

Anyone have bright ideas how to survive this?

[vestal wren]

easiest way is probably just to run gear compare without embellishment

[lament warren]

adapt

[grim jay]

The 0.25 was a DD on healspec. Performance issue

[lament warren]

cast frost submission

[vestal wren]

cloak

[spice surge]

https://media.tenor.com/mhTqHVRqafIAAAAC/diagnosis-skill-issue.gif

[lament warren]

skill issue is dead

[little light]

just dont die 5head

[balmy condor]

Composition issue

Raid leader said “do your homework” and I almost lost it

[lament warren]

u raid in doms with my friend aerys right

[balmy condor]

Yes

[lament warren]

godspeed

i’m rooting for u

[vapid pawn]

all off raid cds are good in this fight for last ticks, DKs Dhs

we even put barried disc for last ones

[balmy condor]

Yeah so that’s funny cause we have 4 healers

We just don’t have things

To stay alive

[vapid pawn]

oh lawd why

[lament warren]

why not mutiny your raid leader

he can’t kick you all

unionize

[brazen zodiac]

rip

[balmy condor]

Raid leader says we 4 heal I say how bout no he says “it’s doable”

Flawless logic

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[balmy condor]

1 guild has killed with 4 healers

Let’s make it 2

[vapid pawn]

i assume that cloak is assigned for first soak

[lament warren]

need a strong coalition of raiders to defeat the evil fatcat raid leader methinks

[grim jay]

Double up and give it to another

[lament warren]

i need a 4head emote but it’s 4heal

and it’s the spirit shell icon

[vapid pawn]

Well he deserves a chance to check it out, but yeah kurog 4heals needs some insane numbers for 2nd phase

maybe the other log is full of offheals or smthing?

[lament warren]

the other log is probably like top10 region

[vapid pawn]

darkenss & amz every second ticks seems juicy tho

[grim jay]

"Do your homework" deserves one aswell

[vapid pawn]

but imagine 200k tick on earth

[lament warren]

do your homework

yeah man i’ll be studying wowprogress real close

[ornate topaz]

how much Mastery do u have ?

[lament warren]

a lot

he’s very good at assassination

so his mastery is quite high

[balmy condor]

No clue

I don’t Look at my stats

[frigid pilot]

Why is it so hard to parse with bad kill time

[balmy condor]

Cause I don’t care

[grim jay]

But he still needs to do his homework, so there is room for improvement

[lament warren]

because sin likes haste and is a burst spec and the further away you get from lust and dmg spikes the worst your current dps is

[ornate topaz]

around 2300

[grim jay]

Is that the cap?

[frigid pilot]

So you’re saying I should go outlaw on st

[brazen zodiac]

no hes saying fuck da police

[lament warren]

if you want to be less dependent on kill time i recommend sub

[frigid pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/nwa-straightouttacompton-walk-strut-squad-gif-4502898

[lament warren]

sub is bursty but comparably flatter

[ebon notch]

Anvil gaming?

[lament warren]

and outlaw is not bad but definitely the flattest of the 3

[frigid pilot]

Interesting

[lament warren]

they tried to recruit me yday 😳

[ebon notch]

Do it for science

[lament warren]

no shot man

when someone opens with “we joined because we believe in the guild and its goals” i am turning the other way

what goals do you believe in at 3/8m

[grim jay]

Still possible to get CE

😂

[magic vine]

strong middle manager vibes

[lament warren]

i will not be gaslit into your cult

[mystic tiger]

Hey 👋 a new sin here. What s going on with the ruby whelp shell trink. I just saw a video saying if you train the whelp fully it almost does the same dmg as manic grieftorch and is it good for sin rogues?

[fading wigeon]

Check pin

[royal lantern]

maybe good, sims not out

[mystic tiger]

Cheers 👍

[ancient dock]

!logs

[oblique jackal]

!log

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/69182752

[lament warren]

paste that in the thread please so it doesn’t get lost

[oblique jackal]

ty! my apolozgies

im new to PVE haha

[lament warren]

no worries!

[oblique jackal]

did i do it right?

[lament warren]

yes!

[upper oak]

Should I be trying to align tea use with something? Like refreshing bleeds, deathmark, or shiv? Or just kind of as needed?

[flint tusk]

first use to get it off 3cap is with shiv. all other uses when you need energy only never for mastery buff.

[upper oak]

ok, that would probably explain why I end up running out of energy, too much playing around the mastery buff

[flint tusk]

or obviously if you're going to 3 cap it again

yeh once you have bleeds and poisons rolling when the mastery buff comes in it's a bit meh as mastery only affects bleeds and poisons.
so there is probably some cursed why of getting atiny bit more dps out stacking with otherstuff. but the energy is far far more dps than the mastery buff

[upper oak]

Sounds good, thanks

[weak crescent]

is this good progress ?

or should i start using it on smth more ideal

you can only spec into 1 right ?

[inland kernel]

guys, what build is better on fortified Carnage or Dragon?

[gusty mirage]

You can do more than one, but you only get 6 total

So if you start training the aoe for example, it’ll take a point out of fire shot

[gusty mirage]

For m+? For better overall esp on fort weeks you’d play kingsbane + IC. For tyran weeks I highly recommend the dragon tempered build for better ST damage

[inland kernel]

that was my same idea, just wanted to confirm

[gusty mirage]

Luckily in 2 weeks you’ll just play dtb & IC

Best of both worlds

[inland kernel]

haven't checkd new talent tree apart from shiv talent addition, so you will be able to use IC with dragon bane build now?

[grim jay]

Inb4 drastic changes inc

Good ol' dragonbane

[eternal quail]

kinda new here, why dtb over KB + Bone spike for single target?

[grim jay]

DTB has spike aswell

You sim for yourself whats better with your current setup

[gusty mirage]

Yeppers, they’re making dashing 2points which will allow us to take dtb + one other capstone

But kingsbane is prolly dead

Moving to a choice node with dtb

[inland kernel]

IC with dtb should feel amazing

[gusty mirage]

Oh yeah in m+ it’ll feel and perform really really well

[grim jay]

Should make it a choicenode with exs

[pale plank]

Have any of u guys tested this before? https://youtu.be/o1hz5_9wDvE

Apparently it could be better than greiftorch

[grim jay]

You could try reading the pins

[little light]

Arterial precision is not gonna be worth then I guess

for m+ that is

[pale plank]

God damn u guys are fast!!

[grim jay]

Whispyr said it looks decent without optimized apl already

[little light]

nice

[royal lantern]

golden rule: if there is a clickbait video

its probably not nearly as good as the video says

🙂

[dark token]

It's rng better than heroic grieftorch... At 421 ilvl... With no grieftorch resets

Grieftorch is far more consistent, this is a random proc that could be worse, could be better

[coarse bear]

What is the difference between bronzed grip wrappings and fang adornments?

In terms of output

[royal lantern]

bronze wrapping is rng but can be slightly higher

[weak crescent]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[royal lantern]

we talk about "its 0,8 instead of 0,7%"

[coarse bear]

Oh thank you

[eternal quail]

2set, simming 68.5k as KB. 2set DTB sims 68.7k. However when I get 4set, the + 20% bleed dmg bonus will probably let KB take over signicantly as with the KB build, Rupture+Garrote is 23.7% of my overall, however with DTB its only 14.4%.

[grim jay]

There is no significantly between the 2

Since there is a DTB bleed build for 4p

[eternal quail]

I guess dtb has less buttons with no exsang or kb

[grim jay]

Optimal DTB build is using exs

[kind walrus]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[eternal quail]

one less button then... ha

[eternal quail]

ty!

[brazen zodiac]

when cos ring drops on a 21

and you just upgraded it 411

[winter gale]

Sry, wrong channel

[normal mist]

I just wanted all my valor upgrading wrists from HoV crit/mast + socket. Idk if that was a good idea but I'm happy xD

[grim jay]

The mighty sucked

[normal mist]

LOOOOL

Phone trolling me

[grim jay]

It should be pretty fine tho

[normal mist]

411 for now

I barely have haste in my gear

[tardy jackal]

Hello, i have a question what is this ability?

[hollow river]

pvp trinket

[brazen zodiac]

trickz would know

[tardy jackal]

how can get this ability to my action bar? because i want to do burst rotation but i need this ability and i can't find it

[gusty mirage]

You would need to pvp to get the currency to buy it from a vendor

And if you don’t pvp there’s about 10 trinkets better than it from m+ and raid

[tardy jackal]

oh

thank you

[hollow river]

[unkempt burrow]

I don't see this build in faq, do you have a link?

[strange python]

!log

[sour hinge]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[tardy jackal]

and what ability is this and how can i get that in my action bar ;D?

[grim jay]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[thorny pond]

Anyone have a fire elvui profile?

[grim jay]

[verbal mantle]

this is Indiscriminate Carnage, I advise you to read the #assassination-faq and check all the talents, you can drag and drop the icon in your bars after you selected the talent

[brazen zodiac]

you talent into this ability btw

[tardy jackal]

ok

[lime gust]

Is there any good guide for Assa somewhere?

Sorry, a video one

[thorny pond]

Not really. Nobody here recommends any

Most of the content gets dated fairly quick and is time consuming to create

[lime gust]

damn

[weak crescent]

can always watch whispyr stream haha

[lime gust]

I just need a proper guide to learn this spec cause ima have to play it at razageth mythic "soon"

guess ill go the old way and just learn it by readin the guiudes

[dense jetty]

It’s ez if it makes you feel any better lol

[lime gust]

Kinda, still have to learn what to press XD

[surreal fractal]

I’m liking assassination a lot for raid. I went DTB no exsang and thought it was relatively chill. Still parsed terribly but uh yeah

[fleet imp]

Check the #assassination-faq and make sure to align it on every shield. Sin is giga there

Not a great comparison but execute dps on my recent hc kill was twice the avg dps we had

[lime gust]

oh yea hope it gets nerfed by when i get there 😛

[fleet imp]

Its just too strong

[lime gust]

Which of the suggested builds are you using for pure ST

[fleet imp]

I would call it pure execute build

Its the kb+exang

[weak crescent]

Do sims count execute phase ?

[fleet imp]

Yep afaik

[sick monolith]

are the whispyr or fuu spreadsheets updated to new patch changes?

[hexed garden]

Any one have some tips for doing dragonblades in m+?

[fleet imp]

Yes, swap your talent tree to IC

[hexed garden]

so its not a good idea atm.

[fleet imp]

Depending on what key level you play both are fine

I just said IC cuz I really like it and I've pushed with it

[teal bloom]

Dtb is fine atleast on tyrannical weeks and I play much better with it because it's similar playstyle to shadowlands

I need a lot more practice with IC/KB 😦

[hexed garden]

what is the AOE rotation with DTB? do you prio envenom more due to poison bomb?

or just spam Crimson Tempest

[fading mason]

Are we keeping the 2set buff up in aoe?

[subtle tundra]

the wat

tier set is completely passive

[limpid moth]

im a bit confused at the wording on deathmark, does it only duplicates the dots AFTER the deathmark is applied or will it duplicate already applied dots

[dense jetty]

Already applied

[limpid moth]

so what if u apply dots AFTER the deathmark

[dense jetty]

Still duplicated

Just refreshed

[thorny pond]

@gusty mirage It's dead, spider go bye-bye

100 pulls

[thorn fjord]

Start spider prog last night

started*

What a dumb fight i must say lol

[thorny pond]

Beach's Keys to Success: Shadowstep back on every time, fuck the haters. Tell everyone else where to stand

[thorn fjord]

lol

[thorny pond]

I coach raid skill for gold DM me

[thorn fjord]

I keep wanting to get up the steps asap then my dumb ass does it and im standing at the top by myself watching everyone else die LOL

[thorny pond]

better red than dead?

[thorn fjord]

I guess but im not hitting the boss while im up there either lol

we only got like 4 pulls in though... Real prog is Sunday

[thorny pond]

Big brain move is to follow it up with cloak and just do KB during it

was the only thing that made me feel alive

[thorn fjord]

Running DTB

[thorny pond]

We needed execute damage

[thorn fjord]

Ah gotcha... we may also but we'll see

[thorny pond]

40% going up was our kill, like held DM for 35% and still fit two in

[thorn fjord]

They want me cleaving off add at start which feels awkward... I'll prob drop bleeds on add then swap to boss and blow cd's

we'll see

[thorny pond]

Literally "diedslow"

F that noise. Garrote Big spider, SnD, garrote boss then go to town

[thorn fjord]

Im garroting boss snd then add dropping rupture then swapping back to boss to ER box etc

[thorny pond]

Those first ones just melt between everyone popping CDs and the space being clear

[modest crest]

So, should racials or races be taken into consideration at all? Or go purely for appearances. I wanna go Zandalari but they’re trash comparing to orc and Tauren

[thorn fjord]

My group is mad special though so dmg is weird and the add wasnt dying fast enough with us just cleaving off boss

[grim tangle]

are guilds really out there unironically taking 100 pulls on sennarth?

[thorn fjord]

Cows life breh

[thorny pond]

Usually people go for utility > DPS and then a ratio of fav appearance. Pick your fav, doesn't matter

[teal bloom]

Is execute valuable on sennarth? Aren't phases time based?

Or is it because it's easier to do damage when the boss reaches the top platform and want to maximize dps there

[subtle tundra]

the only reason it would be valuable is if people die so execute is very extended

[fleet imp]

Would always send dbt/dbt ex

Less stuff to care about and easier to min max

Unless you need that extra "burst" on the add spooder

[thorny pond]

KB just sims dummy high for me

[thorny pond]

and I don't mind playing it. Reminds me of Legion

[fleet imp]

Its pretty big on some bosses but dunno... progging on spooder with that is less forgiving

[covert schooner]

How far is assass off in m+ dungeons above like 18?

[fleet imp]

10k ish dps from OL in 20s

[subtle tundra]

lol

[fleet imp]

Overall tho. On some keys is closer on other far

[subtle tundra]

sure buddy

if you said sub i would've agreed

[fleet imp]

Thinking about CoS Sbg

Temple

While pretty strong on RLP No

[thorny pond]

I liked popping it then climbing stairs. Made me feel alive

CoS ring is big

YUGE

[covert schooner]

Man I want assass to be meta in m+ so bad 😦

Love the spec, also a meta slave though

[storm forum]

isn't seliathan doing like top 20 keys as assa?

[grim tangle]

yeah but unlike us he's actually good so it doesn't count

[storm forum]

yeah he probably has gouge bound

[rapid forum]

Shadowstep is the true mvp on the sennarth fight

[sand elm]

do u guys run with kb/ic or the dtb build for totjs?

curious what every1 else uses

[echo heath]

ic

[spice spire]

Totjs?

[echo heath]

jade serpent temple

[sand elm]

temple of the jade serpent

[spice spire]

Ahhhh

Ic gaming

[sand elm]

i had been running ic but i dno if the pulls are better for poison bomb cleave

depends on the tanks pulls i guess

i cant wait for 25th to run dtb/ic

[frigid pilot]

!log

[foggy tundra]

Which cooldowns are No gcds?

[brazen zodiac]

vende-

[sand elm]

vanish isnt on the gcd

but considering we only have 2 really

[thorn fjord]

SBS aint either right?

[sand elm]

that im not sure of

[thorn fjord]

Tea isnt either i THINK

[sand elm]

yeah tea isnt

i think deathmark is the only 1 that is

[foggy tundra]

SBS?

[sand elm]

serrated bone spike

[foggy tundra]

Thx

[strange python]

Sbs is definitely on the gcd

[foggy tundra]

Can dtb perform good in m+?

[teal bloom]

lower overall but higher single target damage that can be handy for bosses atleast in tyrannical

[red tinsel]

You only have 1 set piece? I guess it's good

[slim hamlet]

Did you just reply to a 2 day old message

[spice spire]

[thorn fjord]

Ash just trying to catch up dont be mean 😛

[thorn fjord]

SBS is indeed on the gcd

me dumb

[sand elm]

fair enough

[marble bane]

!log

[viscid spear]

My good twin

[vapid sierra]

!whyspir

!whyspir

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[sand elm]

u got there eventually 🙂

[vapid sierra]

yup

[alpine pagoda]

D:

[wind condor]

!log

[rustic elm]

For a DTB build, ive read a few conflicting things - is Exsanguinate good or bad? or is it situational and not that black and white?

[thorn fjord]

Good with 4p

[vital reef]

Should I use Box AFTER using DM? My Sims all show DM going out - then it starts the Box channel. I assume thats wrong, and I should Box, then DM as soon as Box channel finishes.

[oak sky]

Box before dm

[hidden crown]

Guys quick question

[agile geode]

This make me feels so bad

[hidden crown]

bruh m+

[vestal wren]

it is just a logical consequence

[vital reef]

What boss is that?

[agile geode]

This Is raid mythic

Overall

[vital reef]

Ahh - yea dont play Assn for overall. lol

[vestal wren]

some fights are aoe

and assassinaiton is in for single target

so it can not get to a higher overall output

if you switch to a diffrent metric

[vapid sierra]

typically the only time you have the highest output is on ST

[vestal wren]

boss damage

[vital reef]

I think every fight has AoE Padding involved. Its completely irrelevent to killing the boss, but SOMEONE in the raid has to kill the small adds. No point in it being you.

[vestal wren]

suddenly assassinaiton looks like it does perform rly good

[hidden crown]

it does but not every fight is gonna be focused on aoe

[vapid sierra]

im stopping to care about being top of the meeters, starting to care more about parse

[hidden crown]

If you aoe on Raz you're basically trolling

[vapid sierra]

assa isnt top of meters unlses st

[agile geode]

Yy

[vapid sierra]

but you bring some good ass st

loads of survivability

i mean all rogues do that

[hidden crown]

Like idk presonallly no outlaw has surpassed me in the dmg meters in bosses yet

[vapid sierra]

they should

apart on terros

[vital reef]

My question is - why is Enh Shaman so far below Assn ST and yet the Simulators all put Enh Shaman above Assn ST dps?

[vapid sierra]

might be mechanics?

[gusty mirage]

what simulators

[hidden crown]

mechanics? Number of players?

[vital reef]

https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T29_Raid.html

[vapid sierra]

sin gets their damage rolling and can stop dpsing for a bit and wont energy overcap

they dont resource waste

[vital reef]

And yet on what is nearly full patchwork, (Terros) for melee, we dominate Enh Shaman

[vapid sierra]

if they need to run out for mechanics or some shit

[vital reef]

Terros is full patchwork for melee

[vapid sierra]

but with sin your damage is still ticking if your out of boss range

[gusty mirage]

that profile is playing DTB and not playing with puzzle box

so

[vital reef]

WTF - really?

[vestal wren]

yes

[gusty mirage]

and it's playing blue silken lining?

[vital reef]

DTB is best tho, but no box?

[gusty mirage]

[vestal wren]

i created the profile a while back

and for whatever reason it did not show head as a gain back then

[vital reef]

CCT and Manic , seems reasonably close to BIS

[vestal wren]

but later when re-iterating over, it was a gain

not sure if there was some simc shananigan or if i made a mistake with input

puzzle box is similar

[gusty mirage]

slap in a puzzle box

[vestal wren]

the apl was optimized later after profile creation

[gusty mirage]

and you play KB + Exsang

[vital reef]

Wait - should I be playing KB with Box?

[vestal wren]

cev did give koji a profile

[gusty mirage]

yes

[vestal wren]

my profile might be even marginal better form the sheet

[gusty mirage]

there's a 99% chance if you're playing puzzle box, KB sims higher than dtb for you

it's why we emphasize simming often

[vestal wren]

but in general cowl, slight talent changes and puzzle box

[vital reef]

Ohh damn

[vestal wren]

and sin is on 91k

[gusty mirage]

one piece of gear can throw off everything you were originally going for

[vestal wren]

puzzle box is insnae

it did shake up stat distribution

[gusty mirage]

like if I craft another 418 piece

[vestal wren]

mastery was fairly heavy without it

[gusty mirage]

I'm supposed to craft it haste/mastery

[chilly canopy]

so if i have 4set, which point should i take off, from the normal st DtB build for exsang?

[vestal wren]

and with puzzle box, mastery and haste is basically identical

(in terms of how much profiles have)

(crit is still the best, and sims for all 3 will put crit as dominant stat)

[vestal wren]

you will dislike the answer

but best is to just sim it

[chilly canopy]

eh pain in the arse, but will do 😄

[shut owl]

Kb is still simming about 800 higher than DTB even without puzzle for me lol

[vestal wren]

exsang had some cleanup too recently (from koji)

think it might be rly good in general

(sry to whoever dislikes it)

[misty furnace]

anyone know a good ass I can watch high M+ key videos
so i can learn to not suck

[zinc frost]

Nothing great on YouTube but seliathan streams on twitch

[misty furnace]

[sand elm]

i dont suppose its looking like the rotation changes any with the new capstone on 25th

[royal lantern]

most likely you stop taking KB

but no rota changes

cus nothing that would change them happens

[sand elm]

not taking it anyway

well i was just wondering if something like pooling both charges of shiv with arterial precision for deathmark bleeds would be a thing or something

currently dtb doesnt use shiv for that

[gusty mirage]

you won't play AP

like ever

[toxic burrow]

We finally tried out M. Eranog since our raid leader was afraid to try H. Raz and we failed in the end. A guildmate told me I shouldn't be Sin and that Outlaw is clearly the better choice for killing the small adds. Wanted to tell him to mind his own business but I have to be nice. He can do his Demo aoe all day as he wishes; at least I'm doing my job and burning down priority targets.

[gusty mirage]

unless whispyr, cev and koji pull a rabbit out of their hats

[sand elm]

thats unfortunate

[gusty mirage]

AP is looking kinda terrible

[sand elm]

i like the idea of it

[royal lantern]

you can tell your RL that he doesnt need to be scared about mythic eranog and council

fights are WAY more easy then heroic raza

eranog is normal fight difficulty, council is a simple "can your dh/warrior not charge trought everyone with the circle?"

[sand elm]

can finally use 2 capstones and we dont even take one

[gusty mirage]

you can just tell them what I told one of my guildmates when he asked why I wasn't playing outlaw

"Why don't you play outlaw?"

"Why don't you mind your own fucking business?"

seemed to work out

[royal lantern]

my answer to that was "im playing rogue"

[gusty mirage]

I like mine better

[gusty mirage]

I do too, it has so much potential

[sand elm]

my answer is always assassination is more fun for me

[gusty mirage]

but I think most of it potential will be in pvp I think

esp if it causes you to throw up hemotoxin with the cleave

[royal lantern]

like i always say the same: i swap specs when my spec is tuned so bad that its legit trolling to play, otherwhise im always pulling my weight, so dont bother me"

[gusty mirage]

cuz uh that seems kinda busted for arena

[sand elm]

it feels like it has too much required synergy with IC

and isnt really good in st

[toxic burrow]

They are, but we're still doomed either way since we have folks in the group that should not be entering mythic. Makes it significantly harder on the rest.

[royal lantern]

dude

every mythic guild has like 12people in its raid that should not do mythic

[toxic burrow]

Yeah, that's a good option. 😄 My hidden toxic option is also swap-blasting him off of cliffs so folks wonder what's wrong with him.

[royal lantern]

i love those little fellas

always look so happy

[sand elm]

btw which stat buff do u guys take in academy?>

[toxic burrow]

It also doesn't help that the lock in question also got hardcore geared out since we had around 14 DK, lock, and DH tier tokens drop over three weeks. His ego is huge now. All three locks and our DK hit 4p extremely fast, while I'm over here tearing at the throats of the warriors and evoker to get mine. :<

[nocturne lagoon]

i feel attacked

[thorn fjord]

My RL wants me to play sin which is nice

[royal lantern]

crit

[sand elm]

cool. ive been taking crit but wasnt sure if 1 of the others was better

[royal lantern]

i mean

its probs either crit or vers

[sand elm]

vers really?

[royal lantern]

5%vers is 5%more dmg

lol

[topaz bluff]

Does AP increase the value of Ex? Idk if it's worth, and I'm not much of an assassination theorycrafter but can save that combo for execute phase in M+. Most bosses don't live long enough for two Ex rotations anyways. Might be a way to get some value out of an AP/IC build in single target?

[sand elm]

hm maybe. i guess just 20% bleed damage isnt enough to push it above the current build

iirc from the current testing sheet its like 2k dps behind

cos it competes with shrouded and sbs for u to get it

[topaz bluff]

In single target no, but AP/IC should be more trash damage than what we have currently. You can take AP+IC, but you have to pick between SS or SBS. Might check if x2 shiv charges is better than thrown precision?

[sand elm]

hm it might be more on less targets

fok doesnt really pop off till 5+ targets

[gusty mirage]

[sand elm]

AP loses value without IC as well. cos with only 8s duration ud end up not getting many bleeds on stuff before it runs out

unless u spent ages putting them on everything before using it, even then with the cd on garrote everything would likely be dead anyway

feels like IC will just win out on any other aoe talent that competes with it

[topaz bluff]

Yeah, that's why x2 shiv might be a little more flex for stacking with Ex on single target, and it depends if it is a "smart" debuff or not I'd guess in large pulls.

[sand elm]

i doubt it would

cos AP directly competes with both shrouded and sps

thats what we lose for it

[topaz bluff]

You get either sbs or shrouded

Just not both

With IC+AP

[sand elm]

in the build on the test sheet u dont get either

with dtb/ap

[topaz bluff]

Ahh was speaking of an AP+IC

[sand elm]

so for ap to be worth, itd need to be buffed to compensate for 2% from lethal dose with sbs and the excess bleed damage

ah gotcha

[oak sky]

Honestly i think for aoe it might end up being shiv on pull to get it on cooldown then hold it for execute range

But its sort of hard to sau

Say

[ebon notch]

i thought you said ass and was gonna compliment them

[topaz bluff]

I was meaning AP+IC should be good in trash, better than we have now, but it's going to fall a bit in single target.

That's why I wonder if saving the Ex for execute and x2 shiv stack could help it gain some ground in that department.

You can always spread Garrotes/rups when IC is down use shiv to buff them so AoE doesn't feel as bad when waiting on IC.

[sand elm]

oh absolutely, but i doubt they want ap + ic to be a potential st build

[topaz bluff]

If shiv is smart you can just fan+rup tab while keeping CT up and shivX2 to cover more than 5 mobs. After you get a few bleeds spread. If it's dumb and will apply to the same mobs twice that of course doesn't work lol

I was looking at it for maybe a M+ niche. I wouldn't run AP outside of M+ or pvp for toxin spread as someone mentioned earlier.

[thorny pond]

@gusty mirage my DPS sucks what gives

[spice spire]

Skill issue

[thorny pond]

frick

[lusty surge]

Does AP make shiv cast on all targets it hits and give you full CP

[thorny pond]

no secrit strats

[lusty surge]

Or just applies the debuff

[gusty mirage]

play unholy dk

play superhard during opener

then afk

you did your job

[thorny pond]

our UH DK beat me in execute last night

I double DM'd too

I suck

[sand elm]

know the feeling

[gusty mirage]

no

uhdk is just fucking broken

nerf rogue btw

3 times btw

based on heroic logs btw

[thorny pond]

2% nerfs coming in faster than I get my hairs cut

Outlul 2PS procs

not 3

I guess they want sub meta

[pliant cairn]

Question for you guys. Normal and Heroics I was top damage easily. Starting Mythics I’m struggling, is that a scaling thing or that the mobs die too fast, or more of a rotation issue?

[thorn fjord]

Dude our UH dk is destroying everything

[thorny pond]

You have logs @pliant cairn

?

[pliant cairn]

I do not sorry. I’ll get those and ask again later. Is that just through Details or another add on?

[thorny pond]

Warcraftlogs

[thorn fjord]

It’s them making up for shitting on the class from sanctum on in SL

[thorny pond]

Separate website entirely, someone in your raid may have logged

Go there and search your name-realm, you may have some

[gusty mirage]

okay

what about them shitting on rogue for the entirety of SL?

[thorn fjord]

We were saucy in sanctum atleast

[gusty mirage]

assassination needed 6000 buffs to be competitive in season 1

[thorny pond]

Assassin wasn't even a spec until CN was already HoF'd

[gusty mirage]

2 of those included reworks of covenant abilities

btw

[thorny pond]

Slaughter > Flag?

[gusty mirage]

sub was super hard carried by EoN

[thorny pond]

still is

[gusty mirage]

and outlaw and assassination would've been as dogshit as feral druid w/o frost shards hard carrying us

season 3 rolls around

sub still pretty good early cuz edge of night

then they get their tier set which does absolutely nothing for them

because lol shadowblades

outlaw's tier set never worked properly ever

and assassination's was like "AYO EXSANG GAMEPLAY? ALL THE TIME? ENJOY"

strong set

dogshit baseline

unlucky

[thorny pond]

Strong set now

[thorn fjord]

Well when you put it like that

[thorny pond]

Hotdog water baselines

We doing okay bud

[gusty mirage]

rogue is super strong for once

and we get nerfed

repeatedly

meanwhile arcane mage? untouched

unholy dk? GOT BUFFED

????????

[thorn fjord]

"Outlaw was performing better than we would have liked" NERF

[thorny pond]

"Max said we are unkillable, so our DPS should suck"

[gusty mirage]

max should go back to making tier lists with azor

talking about how complex BM hunter is for 20 minutes

[thorn fjord]

isnt BM a 3 button class?

[gusty mirage]

I'll never forget this mfer rolling into nathria

after the sin buffs

without poisons

and going "this spec sucks"

this is the lead content creator for wow?

really?

people take his word as gospel?

[thorn fjord]

I remember after the buffs playing sin on sludgefist... it was so nice

[gusty mirage]

yes and azor had a 30 minute thesis prepared for it

[thorn fjord]

But yeah with everything you mentioned you'e right

[gusty mirage]

assassination got hit the hardest with nerfs btw

don't let the outlaw rogues gaslight you

they got a 3% aura nerf just like we did

we also got a talent nerf

[thorn fjord]

and theres no way they roll back exsang to 45 sec eh?

[gusty mirage]

that "3% nerf" that outlaw was melting down about

was like 4.5ish% for assassination

[vestal wren]

funnily enough it would be terrible for the entirety of sl without

[gusty mirage]

yeah but they gave you guys black powder and hoped sub rogues would forget about everything else wrong with the spec

idk wtf they did all of SL

but bandaiding our class with items wasn't the play

then we go into DF strong, which btw sub was still largely neglected

and I see arcane mage existing as is

[vestal wren]

i do like sub in df so far

[gusty mirage]

and watching my class get nerfed??

like okay man

our destro locks are outsimming me in ST btw

[thorny pond]

Wtf

[vestal wren]

destro, hunter

[gusty mirage]

0 PIs

[raw raft]

It’s okay guys remember when we summed 96k and were way above the other specs

[vestal wren]

enh

[gusty mirage]

destro if it can plant and turret

[vestal wren]

all of them should outsim rogue

[gusty mirage]

absolutely wipes the floor with rogue

LOL

[vestal wren]

but you know

[gusty mirage]

BUT NERF US CUZ OF HEROIC LOGS BTW

[vestal wren]

they don't do aoe damage

according to our wls in the guild

[gusty mirage]

yeah I've heard the same

[gusty mirage]

the poor babies have to spec into aoe

I wonder what that's like

[vestal wren]

yes, its like

[thorn fjord]

One of our locks wanted to play destro on terro's yesterday but they had him change affi cause he kept eating mechanics lol

[spice spire]

[vestal wren]

if one rogue spec would exist

[raw raft]

The fact that tuning was done before raid was even out was the biggest red flag

[vestal wren]

that has no aoe finisher

and need to skill it

[gusty mirage]

yeah idk what that'd be like

absolute insanity

and then they killed all of assassination's build diversity in 10.0.5

[thorn fjord]

so what you're saying is make CT baseline?

[dark token]

Arcane mage really should have been 3% with the other specs

[marble hemlock]

its more like

[gusty mirage]

where you play DtB & whatever the fuck else you can shove in there

[dark token]

Over ww fucking for sure

[marble hemlock]

the SL pvp video

[raw raft]

Don’t worry guys atleast our aoe cd’s are super strong when we play outlaw and sub

[dark token]

I have no idea how they dodged that nerf

And now fire buffed week after week until it's pretty strong too

[vestal wren]

one thing i don't get

[gusty mirage]

and destro buffs

[vestal wren]

is why they killed this point

[gusty mirage]

btw

[earnest remnant]

im still weirded out by this tbh

[dark token]

Yeah destro and aff legit scary now

[gusty mirage]

we were doing more damage week 2 of heroic

had to be nerfed ig

[spice spire]

Arcane existing is an affront to god

[raw raft]

Affliction changes coming in .5 as well

[gusty mirage]

my fav was the sub "buff" that came

[dark token]

I think the rogue nerfs were fine but arcane should have been nerfed too

[gusty mirage]

on the side of the tree they avoid like the plague

what a wonderful buff

[dark token]

Ye that tree sucks so bad

[vestal wren]

tbh

sub buff was a pvp buff

oh wait

[gusty mirage]

[thorn fjord]

I think the dance capstone is a dogshit way to play the class

but thats just my opinion

[gusty mirage]

btw I laugh at their reasoning for the outlaw nerf

it's so funny to me

"outlaw is overperforming in m+"

so like

survival hunter and destro lock were what exactly for half of shadowlands?

[vestal wren]

i think outlaw is always good, what is mabye a reason people stick with it

[dark token]

And legitimately it wasnt

Sub was the same

[gusty mirage]

yeah it was fine