why do they get to be so much tankier for free
#assassination
cedar mist
cause pirate
vestal wren
design decision
i can get behind it, if they play 
but it is in general one discussion might be worth having
having "forced" utility nodes does not mean you do less dps, but that you get something for free
cedar mist
True
vestal wren
because the balance team usually just tunes based on numeric output
e.g. to showcase this
assassination atm is around 91k dps
this while having the option to easy pick up all utility talents
vestal wren
both subtelty and outlaw are lower, while not having the same problem
you can make it even more
if you play tauren
to bad orc is better for assassination
(tbh the diffrence is low and tauren seems to be top performing on outlaw/sub so the best choice)
subtle tundra
yea but that doesnt change the fact
cedar mist
I was min-maxin without even realizing it, I was a Tauren when I was still playing Outlaw but when I switched to Assassination I just so happened to have switched to Orc
cedar mist
Sure
vestal wren
yes ofc
cdr also works rly well for defensive value
so there is a lot of reason to like outlaw in keys
cedar mist
But between health pots, crimson vial, cloak and even Evasion in dire situations, I would argue that a 10% in stamina shouldn’t have a massive influence in keys. Maybe I’m missin’ somethin, I dunno.
grim jay
Horde people
cedar mist
subtle tundra
But between health pots, crimson vial, cloak and even Evasion in dire situations...
buddy i was getting 1 shotted on 3rd boss in NO in a 22. only a 22
and no its not feintable
just cloak
grim jay
10% stam can be the diff between oneshot and not
cedar mist
Shiet well you’re punchin a lot higher then I ever felt the need to. I stop pushin when the ilvl stops increasin. 
grim jay
Esp since you can die through cheat death and it should be even more meaningful in that case
If you ever get there
royal lantern
Esp since you can die through cheat death and it should be even more meaningful ...
tbf, dmg that kills trought cheat death is dmg that doesnt care about 10%stamina
grim jay
Isnt the cheat death cap based on HP?
royal lantern
yes
but dmg that kills trought cd stuff is dmg that is so high, 10% wont really make or break it lol
willow sundial
Puzzlebox before or after Exsang?
vestal wren
if the damage is higher than 2x your hp, you just die
willow sundial
and do I refresh my exsang bleeds at the end of my deathmark or let them timeout?
prisma monolithBOT
Algeth'ar Puzzle Box usage:
When playing Exsanguinate, use Puzzle Box just before pressing Exsanguinate. Otherwise always sync Puzzle Box with Deathmark.
Holding Puzzle Box and Exsanguinate for a minute to sync with the 4 minute Deathmark is generally beneficial. Using Puzzle Box on cooldown can be beneficial with very specific fight lengths.
fading wigeon
and do I refresh my exsang bleeds at the end of my deathmark or let them timeout...
Always let them fall out but immediately refresh
grim jay
if the damage is higher than 2x your hp, you just die
Yeah considering that, the 10% stam would be double that amount for cheat death and it might have impact in rare cases that just deal insane damage through scaling, but I dont know if that would ever apply
grim jay
Aside from that 10% are decent enough to prevent you from procing at all
vestal wren
ironically, when i initially discussed the tauren hp, people seemed fairly dismissive of the defensive value
it still is more niche
you rarely hit the point it would be "just enough"
grim jay
Yeah, more often than not its rather relevant to prevent you from procing at all
hallow sonnet
Tauren is quite obnoxious to play in melee imo. I played a Tauren Surv hunter as an alt last season and it's a lot of things to get used to due to their size
hallow sonnet
Pick it up
scarlet wing
always before deathmark?
weak isle
!puzzle
prisma monolithBOT
Algeth'ar Puzzle Box usage:
When playing Exsanguinate, use Puzzle Box just before pressing Exsanguinate. Otherwise always sync Puzzle Box with Deathmark.
Holding Puzzle Box and Exsanguinate for a minute to sync with the 4 minute Deathmark is generally beneficial. Using Puzzle Box on cooldown can be beneficial with very specific fight lengths.
scarlet wing
ah thanks ❤️
flint gulch
Im playing DtB without Exsang. How does my rotation look like and is there a WA that displays my rotation?
shut owl
follow the dtb w/out exsang opener, upkeep your bleeds and dump cp into envenom for st
flint gulch
My lack of focus hampers me building skill before 2021 rogue was pretty much my main focus. Now im Playing: BDK,FDK, Assa rogue, Prot warri, arms warri and MMhunter
i should really give outlaw a try at some point i havent played since combat was revamped
AMP wise which spec is the most taxing?
storm onyx
Outlaw induces carpal tunnel syndrome
shut owl
sin is very chill, sub is chill outside of dance, and only slightly less-chill inside dance until you figure out danse
outlaw is whack-a-mole if you play HO, and is one of the mario party button-mashing minigames if you dont
flint gulch
My AMP is very low my fine motor skills are somewhat hampered which limits the spec i can play. Also more than 20 buttons will just make as effective as a stone
grim jay
Outlaw is like fury on crack
shut owl
play dtb sin, or play sub. you can macro a lot of the cd's to stuff for sub and be okay
flint gulch
Assa i played the most Sub i ra<rely played
shut owl
HO is definitely like RB fury. I feel like KiR is less manic feeling, but wayyyy more spammy
timber basalt
Outlaw has lower gcd, right?
flint gulch
The spammiest spec i played was Dualwield FDK after i tried it i swiched to 2h Obliteration
royal lantern
sin is very chill, sub is chill outside of dance, and only slightly less-chill i...
i mean, assa and sub have litearlly the same APM at this point
"assa is so slow xd" is dead
shut owl
chill =/= slow
flint gulch
with a age of 34 i feel old when playing games
royal lantern
im 25 and feel old cus CTS fucked me 
hidden crown
Got kicked from a Silvermoon player for being assassination
flint gulch
My impaired motor skill are more noticeable when im playing games way less when i do my Strength Training at the gym
hidden crown
kek
grim jay
Got kicked from a Silvermoon player for being assassination
Nothing new
thorn fjord
Yeah if i join a key still specced as sin i usually get booted lolol
flint gulch
Isnt assa performing really well?
shut owl
randos are shitters
thorn fjord
It is but people dont know any better
hidden crown
meta nerds
thorn fjord
All the 2k io scrub lord gate keepers
shut owl
I hit my 2k last night, got my blue spikey boi
flint gulch
Meta slaves are sad human beings, when i want get sweaty i go to the gym
hidden crown
I love the blue spikey boy 300 more to go
shut owl
I really need to get an actual crew for keys t-t
hidden crown
Meta slaves are sad human beings, when i want get sweaty i go to the gym
whats funny is that I out dps a 4 set outlaw
shut owl
the best is beating folks in single target while playing kb/ic
shut owl
I get lazy with dtb in dungeons and it shows on the meters XD
hidden crown
I still prefer Kingsbane cuz its fun, but too many buttons for me
shut owl
meanwhile I'm always trying to finangle a new stealth IC combo
thorn fjord
I get lazy and play OL in keys 
flint gulch
The best spec is : Your hands
hidden crown
I get lazy and play OL in keys <:2ez:587982296066424843>
Die
shut owl
I have to play sub with the only folks who can do higher than a 13 from my guild -.-
thorn fjord
I did run some keys as sub on Sat... Didnt like it one bit
shut owl
absolutely miserable
thorn fjord
Your name is red now @shut owl 
spice spire
I did run some keys as sub on Sat... Didnt like it one bit
I’m noticing a lack of a certain spec here 
thorn fjord
Ive done some sin... I hate having to reaaply ruptures on packs
shut owl
yes. watching seli made me double down in my sinful beliefs
just miss me with your triple monk stacks
y'know, cuz its so much fun playing with mass ToDeath
hidden crown
Ive done some sin... I hate having to reaaply ruptures on packs
take IC
balmy condor
Ive done some sin... I hate having to reaaply ruptures on packs
take me out to dinner
shut owl
nope. dieslow owes me a dinner first
flint gulch
For Ranged class MM hunter is growing on me
thorn fjord
take me out to dinner
There a Sizzler near you? 
balmy condor
nope. dieslow owes me a dinner first
You tryna steal my mans?
shut owl
someone wanted sophic devos crafted, and never followed up
balmy condor
There a Sizzler near you? <:feelsloveman:587982296519278593>
Uhhhhhh
thorn fjord
🤣
thorn fjord
I'm starting to burn out on keys... ran so many this week
balmy condor
HOT DAMN THERE IS
shut owl
pretty sure I've got a discord message saying I was gonna get 30k... that's legally binding as far as I'm concerned
thorny pond
wtf you want at sizzlers
grim jay
HOT DAMN THERE IS
balmy condor
wtf you want at sizzlers
A bush lite and a case of domestic violence
thorny pond
A bush lite and a case of domestic violence
Here we just go home for that
spice spire
A bush lite and a case of domestic violence
Bro?
thorny pond
yea that's applebees then
thorn fjord
A bush lite and a case of domestic violence
With a side salad
balmy condor
It’s important you know your order
That way you don’t look at the menu for 25 minutes like a bozo who’s seeing food for the first time
thorny pond
adding "moon guard" to realms I won't do keys with
shut owl
isn't that an rp realm?
thorn fjord
Yeah make sure you check the Brill inn while you're there @shut owl
balmy condor
isn't that an rp realm?
thorn fjord
My GM and I used to get drunk and hit up MoonGuard to troll people in Brill
royal lantern
isn't that an rp realm?
doesnt matter, cus people dont join random groups and start doing rp lol
thorny pond
he did some weird AV strat, then just said "bye" when I called him out for running away from me with Affix during last boss
balmy condor
doesnt matter, cus people dont join random groups and start doing rp lol
Wait I do
thorn fjord
For some reason, i cant understand it, people seem to REALLY like NE toons with no armor
royal lantern
the only difference is that the guy will not be named XxXshadowkillerMagexXx on his mage alt
shut owl
just gonna go delete my old ICC vids of me rping while raid leading then
thorny pond
For some reason, i cant understand it, people seem to REALLY like NE toons with ...
reminds them of their uncle
shut owl
best gold hustle I ever hatched. RP a bloodthirsty main tank if someone pays me 50 gold. But its 5k for me to stop
I was never short on repairs in ICC
spice spire
Whispyr is definitely a fan of ERP
thorny pond
that's harassment
balmy condor
you RP a cutie <:feelsloveman:587982296519278593>
I had 7 different punchlines and none of them are good to post here
spice spire
shut owl
every time I start typing here, my wife just goes "dammit, who are you harrassing now?"
I don't bully anyone here D:
balmy condor
Oh, I came up with a family friendly one
grim jay
I had 7 different punchlines and none of them are good to post here
Couldve prolly left out the last 3 words
royal lantern
every time I start typing here, my wife just goes "dammit, who are you harrassin...
show her the chat for 5min and she will understand
teal bloom
shut owl
I told her that Ravenholdt is just unhinged. she doesn't believe
brazen zodiac
eh
brazen zodiac
compared to other class disc we're straight vibing tbh
balmy condor
you RP a cutie <:feelsloveman:587982296519278593>
No, I RP as your dad so you know what it feels like to have someone love you
No, I RP as a dick cause your mom can’t get enough
royal lantern
post again, didnt saw it
royal lantern
No, I RP as your dad so you know what it feels like to have someone love you
No...
the first one hits to close man 
thorny pond
wtf man
balmy condor
I said they were family friendly
shut owl
I didn't say bad unhinged. but there is an exs_uwu emoji
brazen zodiac
grim jay
Friendly in a different way
slim hamlet
strange python
Maybe I' m very-very-very-very-very dumb.. But what should I do with shiv in KB build?
Everyone uses it differently, and I don't understand at all how I should use it
If I press it only in KB, then it will remain unused for about 10 seconds until the next KB, and I don't know, it must be? (sorry for my english mistakes and I apologize for the damage to your eyes)
thorny pond
Save shiv for KB
strange python
always?
thorny pond
hit either immediately before or right after you kb but yea
strange python
Okay, thanks you
normal mist
every time I start typing here, my wife just goes "dammit, who are you harrassin...
"here"
strange python
And one more question, is it normal that I get confused about the order of using buttons in the opener? I've been trying to play this for a week now, but I'm still disgusting at it, the dps on the dummy is no more than 45k :<
shut owl
what is your target dummy sim?
shut owl
for target dummy, not patchwork right?
strange python
oh, patchwerk
shut owl
yeah that tends to be a bit different
normal mist
Did you remove external buffs?
Aka bl/pot/flask/rest?
If not, you're doing pretty good dps without those things
strange python
Did you remove external buffs?
target dummy fight style already remove this
normal mist
I mean 45k while simming 50 it's okay
Don't forget you can't really vanish combo in a dummy
Since it resets details
Or atleast that's what happens with me
strange python
this is ...(the?) reason why I don't use vanish on a dummy, maybe in vain
sorry for my english mistakes
normal mist
All good i can understand
thorny pond
doing great mate.
normal mist
And yes "this is the reason"
ebon notch
Don't forget you can't really vanish combo in a dummy
what you do is use the option "Dynamic Overall Damage"
reset your meter before starting your dummy session
normal mist
Oh thanks man, really appreciate the input!
raven vapor
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
strange python
reset your meter before starting your dummy session
it works a little wrong because of the ability of necro :sad:
normal mist
Although it has been a while since I tested my own dps in a target dummy
normal mist
it works a little wrong because of the ability of necro :sad:
Once you stop dpsing you just check the numbers :p
ebon notch
it works a little wrong because of the ability of necro :sad:
yeah you gotta like outrange the dummy or smth
normal mist
Logout might work
thorny pond
log out and back in drops it too
normal mist
^
thorny pond
I wouldn't lie to ya =p
vapid stone
annyone know what nameplates whispyr is using look so smooth
strange python
Fly further
I flew to the azure vault and then came back, but it didn't help. Maybe it's a bug. I don't know
normal mist
I tried to fly away from the dummies, but it didn't help
"didn't help" was correct
Logout is the fastest way
strange python
"didn't help" was correct
Someday I'll understand the difference between them 😅 . Thanks
normal mist
It's the past tense if my English skills are correct. "Didn't help" means you did it on the past. "Don't help" or in this case it should be "it does not help" means it's a present affirmation. Like you know that at this moment it doesn't help
strange python
im already scared :D
normal mist
I'm no teacher whatsoever but i can kinda try and explain some "basic" stuff
strange python
It's the past tense if my English skills are correct. "Didn't help" means you di...
Oh, it's a little clearer now, thank you
Learning English at the rogue discord :D
normal mist
Man we learn a lot in this discord, sometimes about rogue aswell xD
strange python
sounds good
grim jay
annyone know what nameplates whispyr is using look so smooth
Its plater. Wago.io/whispyr has his profile
tacit oracle
Oh, it's a little clearer now, thank you
Learning English at the rogue discord :...
Americans from the South will blow your mind with their english.
normal mist
Why did i immediately think of Brazilians
versed rapids
Its plater. Wago.io/whispyr has his profile
do you have a link? can't seem to find it with just that
normal mist
I believe he told you the link in the message
Maybe google it
Sometimes it's faster xD
wind portal
the opener as seen in raidbots quicksim seems to use shiv after ER rather than holding it til after deathmark like the opener in the faq suggests. does this make any difference? it also uses sbs a few gcds earlier
chrome holly
!logs
chilly viper
Is it me or channeling trinkets on Mythic terros are pretty annoying lol, they're always annoying but particularly on this opening
thorny pond
cloak
slow needle
Ngl. On my DH I hold my opening sequence of cds till after the first soak goes out.
Nothing worse than having to abandon it halfway because I have to position a pillar and the only reasonable spot left is nearer the back.
chilly viper
I was playing Kingsbane on this fight, but I think I'll just play DTB no exsang for this one
strange python
And one more question, is it normal that I get confused about the order of using...
Well, I understood why, with all my mistakes in the opener, my dps is not much lower than that of Simc. This talent is "Zoldiek". I just now understand that assa has execute.. These dummies are with 1% hp, gods
In short, everything is bad for me
wary ice
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
normal mist
Why did someone correct my English 1o1 classes and then deleted? 😦 I am okay with learning man xD
lusty surge
!neck
prisma monolithBOT
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.
strange python
It's the past tense if my English skills are correct. "Didn't help" means you di...
but...it's in place
normal mist
I might have said a mistake or two but it got deleted
slow needle
Why did someone correct my English 1o1 classes and then deleted? 😦 I am okay wi...
Oh that was me. Its because the correction was incorrect. I just missed your last sentence.
normal mist
Ohhh okey bro :p
slow needle
Didn't want to confuse things further xD
normal mist
All good men thanks for trying to help further tho!
solemn marsh
in M+, do I maintain rupture on all targets during trash pulls or just on prio?
hardy dagger
Yesnt
strange python
Anyone knows where you can find actual dummies, but in a place where there are few players? Because in the capital they are all at 1% hp, and I can't understand the real dps because of the zoldiek talent
timber basalt
Can you not set your sim to be execute only?
icy fox
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
thorny pond
There is a patchwerk execute
fathom arrow
what rogue spec do scale the best in both raid and m+ in 10.0.5 patch ?
icy fox
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz
slim hamlet
what rogue spec do scale the best in both raid and m+ in 10.0.5 patch ?
Sub is prob best overall
outlaw too
All are good tbh
fathom arrow
what about assa ?
fathom arrow
what spec would be the easyest for me for both raid and m+ for a noob rogue like me ?
thorny pond
sin is straightforward and a little slower
slim hamlet
For me it was sub
strange python
Silvermoon has some.
how can I get there? only with the help of a friend-mage?
thorny pond
take the portals
teal bloom
Orgrimmar has silvermoon portal in the portal room
slow needle
I just assumed you were Horde xD. Exodar also has some for alliance.
thorny pond
Go old fashioned way UC to SM
slow needle
Go old fashioned way UC to SM
Nah, run north from WPL.
strange python
Orgrimmar has silvermoon portal in the portal room
I tried to find it there, but I didn't find it
oh, sorry for the ping
slow needle
Its downstairs
weak horizon
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
timber basalt
Next week is spiteful week in m+, right? At what key level do the ghosts start oneshotting you?
slim hamlet
+2
normal mist
XD
fading wigeon
wow KB exang is still ahead for me over DTB exang
plain basin
Is it ever correct to crimson tempest in a purely single target fight for the extra bleed?
north frost
Pikaboo put up a video for assassination using dance. Check it out.
vestal wren
oh fair, but thats pvp
prisma cypress
KB + exsang sims like 1% ahead of DTB without exsang and i'm not sure which one to play, considering how likely i am to fuck things up with exsanguinate
cedar mist
So just run DTB if you don’t wanna deal with EX or KB. I usually do that for more consistency overall with less input.
sudden hound
No need to be afraid of exsang. It's a 3m cd you press like 2 times a fight
ionic matrix
I seemed to have picked up one extra point in my basic dtf no exsang build on ptr. Should I drop that extra point into the 3rd zoldyck
and just to stir the pot
can we agree that terros is the best indicator of pure ST damage? I think the answer is yes.
looking at the top 15 parses from assassination, 2 are using exsang DTF and 2 are using exsang kingsbane.
So this idea that exsang is just easy and more damage simply isn't showing up in real world results.
The very best parses are using simple DTF builds.
upper spear
in the PTR build we can now run KB and DTB. Is there a projected overall dps % this is going to have? seems like a pretty big straight buff.
prisma cypress
arent they a choice node?
timber meadow
the builds are effectively identical in sim dps - they will be a choice node once the patch goes live
ionic matrix
to my point I made above, if Kingsbane is only identical in sim dps, you should pretty much never choose it. It adds another mechanic to fuck up for no gain.
limber lion
in the PTR build we can now run KB and DTB. Is there a projected overall dps % t...
No you cannot.
It's a choice node, it's either or.
wicked valve
It'd be way too strong if KB and DTB could be taken together, it'd ruin build diversity and really force us to chose that combo exclusively.
limber lion
I seemed to have picked up one extra point in my basic dtf no exsang build on pt...
Probably yeah. SS/SBS are kinda strong one-pointers, even rivaling the new capstone on single target.
Here's to hoping AP gets buffed before 10.0.5
empty hinge
playing KB with exsa hurts my brain a lil bit
limber lion
can we agree that terros is the best indicator of pure ST damage? I think the an...
Terros is a bit of a weird boss and the results are a bit all over the place on that boss. But currently PI and Sophic Devotion are so strong that if you land Sophic Devo with your cds and/or have PI, you'll be topping everyone easily.
Comparing logs is a bit difficult when one dude does 10k more dps just because he got Sophic Devotion procs during cds and you didn't
ionic matrix
is there a way to look at raidbots for the ptr yet?
thorny pond
sim without it and see
timber meadow
iono how to sim high-rolling procs at specific times
limber lion
is there a way to look at raidbots for the ptr yet?
You can sim ptr stuff by slapping ptr=1 at the top of your string, but don't think there's any way to sim the new talent trees yet, unless you have access to theorycrafter raidbots.
timber meadow
would prob be some advanced script or somethin iono
limber lion
sophic devotion procs account for 10k dps on a 6 minute fight?
Probs not, just throwing random numbers
But it's kinda nuts
thorny pond
just sim no enchants vs sophic
timber meadow
yeah but that's not even close to the discussion
limber lion
just sim no enchants vs sophic
That's not really what he's after
thorny pond
Oh I misread the OG discuss
limber lion
Just because you sim Sophic on Top Gear, it doesn't assure you that you get it during cds
limber lion
All gucci
timber meadow
but yeah to your point even if its 4-5k or somethin with real good high roll, that could be the diff between having a basic top 100 log that nobody sees and a rank 1 or top 5 log
that all of a sudden people are using as evidence of xyz
thorny pond
Like 1PPM is the ICD on that yea? 25% uptime
limber lion
Like 1PPM is the ICD on that yea? 25% uptime
Yeh
The stats stack, proc rate stays the same
limber lion
Just normal bleed DTB
thorny pond
What's the hypothetical, hold DM, Sang (if applic) & Vanish for Sophic proc?
timber meadow
whats a good 2t build
outlaw
dark token
What's the hypothetical, hold DM, Sang (if applic) & Vanish for Sophic proc?
God this sounds aids
timber meadow
alll g, that's the best 2t rogues have access to is all
limber lion
What's the hypothetical, hold DM, Sang (if applic) & Vanish for Sophic proc?
If you know you won't lose casts, then yeh
juice
But then there's other stuff like execute, lust, potion
So best case scenario all cds, during execute, with lust, potion and sophic proc
drowsy parcel
Just normal bleed DTB
kb ct sims like 1k over anything else
thorny pond
Yea the execute one would be juiced. Could see a case to hold if TTD is >20sec and Sophic has been on CD for >40CD and not up.
green apex
Did my first ass key for fun last night. Man IC slaps.
If IC let you apply Garrote as if you were stealthed, how busted would that be? Would make begging for a combat break non-mandatory and be a boost to ST DPS on an otherwise wasted talent.
limber lion
Did my first ass key for fun last night. Man IC slaps.
If IC let you apply Gar...
That's literally what it does. IC lets you apply stealthed garrotes
shut owl
damn, if only IC was sepsis
limber lion
@drowsy parcel I guess Exsang DTB sims the same as DTB + CT for you:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dGC1vsn7vWWNUYypPPPQLA
Pick your poison.
green apex
That's literally what it does. IC lets you apply stealthed garrotes
If you cast it without stealth it doesn't get the stealth buff
limber lion
If you cast it without stealth it doesn't get the stealth buff
Lol
Duh
That's why you always stealth between packs
and use vanish as an offensive cooldown
green apex
... did you read what I wrote?
strange python
and another question, do I understand correctly that we use vanish only for exsang with ST?
subtle tundra
yea cev do you not know how stealth works
limber lion
and another question, do I understand correctly that we use vanish only for exsa...
Once between Exsang uses.
So vanish + Exsang, vanish, vanish + exsang and so on
oblique jackal
<@189423623839285249> I guess Exsang DTB sims the same as DTB + CT for you:
http...
@limber lion is your plater updated for DF?
limber lion
<@165215952479322112> is your plater updated for DF?
It is, yeah
Just updated it a few days ago
strange python
Once between Exsang uses.
oh, okay, thanks
drowsy parcel
<@189423623839285249> I guess Exsang DTB sims the same as DTB + CT for you:
http...
man i really dont like the new talents that much
so annoying to sim
thanks for the perspective tho
limber lion
so annoying to sim
Yeh, once you get used to it and know what to look for and what to exclude, it gets easier.
But yeah, I'd probably run CT DTB in your case. It's also better for intermissions, not that those matter too too much
Or Exsang for slightly bit more boss dps in every phase.
upper spear
But yeah, I'd probably run CT DTB in your case. It's also better for intermissio...
KB isnt better due to intermission? When thinking of Raz or Kurog the shorter damage windows seems like KB would add more value?
strange python
whats a good 2t build
Exsang Dtb worked well for me on 2t because you aren't just going for pure 2t build. Presumably you're playing sin for the boss damage and execute damage on prog because the damage check is actually quite tight
raven vapor
does this opener look correct for the bleed+KB build? trying to replicate the opener images it makes practicing them easier for me.
strange python
It depends I guess. If you're playing sin for the 2t/intermission AoE you probably are better off just playing outlaw.
oblique jackal
@limber lion does plater use a lot of cpu memory compared to elvui
teal bloom
@raven vapor If you aren't playing exsang you wouldn't double rupture in the opener
limber lion
KB isnt better due to intermission? When thinking of Raz or Kurog the shorter da...
It honestly doesn't matter because the boss phases every 2 minutes and the intermissions last around 2 minutes as well
So you're gonna be using cds on boss, then add, then boss, then add, then boss again. Same with KB except you use KB twice on each.
limber lion
I would use sbs before the first rupture, otherwise looks fine.
You should be using Kingsbane after Envenom as well for maximum gain
So you would do Deathmark - Shiv - Envenom - Kingsbane or Deathmark - Envenom - KB - Shiv
raven vapor
I would use sbs before the first rupture, otherwise looks fine.
so Gar > SnD > Gar > SBS > Rup > Puzzle > Vanish > Garrote > Deathmark > Shiv > Envenom > Kingsbane > ER > standard rotation?
limber lion
so Gar > SnD > Gar > SBS > Rup > Puzzle > Vanish > Garrote > Deathmark > Shiv > ...
Right I just noticed, but if you don't play Exsanguinate**** you want to use Rupture at max cp and not double apply it like in the picture.
But yeah what you did there is fine
chilly viper
How do you put dynamic damage overall in details
raven vapor
i'm playing ER just trying to figure out where to place it without over capping combo points
ah exsang
limber lion
How do you put dynamic damage overall in details
chilly viper
Nice thanks
humble kayak
Just came back for DF and trying to get organized, can anyone confirm that the rotation/build is updated for current patch in faq?
limber lion
Yes, FAQ is updated.
turbid harbor
Do we use a tea charge during 4min death mark exsang with puzzle box for the mastery, or is it better to save it for shivs between CD phases for the energy?
raven vapor
But yeah what you did there is fine
Does that look good or am I delaying ER too long now?
limber lion
Nah looks good
raven vapor
awesome cheers
chilly viper
The double rup with exsang is to get the biggest rupture possible I'm guessing ?
7cp rupture + pandemic
limber lion
Yes
jade abyss
@limber lion your platerprofile is on wago?
limber lion
<@165215952479322112> your platerprofile is on wago?
Yes
jade abyss
Ty :)
spiral spindle
can anyone give me a good pvp build and a rotation for assassin?
slate scarab
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
empty hinge
!neck
prisma monolithBOT
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.
willow shell
What is your guys opinion on the rogue changes coming to Assassination? KB is put in the same spot DTB? As I have seen KB does more dmg then going with DTB?
timber meadow
prob stupid question but on m terros ~6 min kill - would it be best to delay my 4 min dm + exsanguinate burst to 5 min so I can combine with pot or is it better to send it without pot and then use pot on a potentially short naked dm at ~6 min
eternal vortex
What is your guys opinion on the rogue changes coming to Assassination? KB is pu...
DTB gonna be better than kb
north frost
DTB gonna be better than kb
Where does DTB go then?
chilly viper
prob stupid question but on m terros ~6 min kill - would it be best to delay my ...
If you think it'll last 6:30 ish
eternal vortex
DTB and KB gonna be a choice node
chilly viper
dont sit on anything and pot with your last exs
willow shell
Where does DTB go then?
DTB stays but gonna share with KB
eternal vortex
u choose DTB or KB only one of them
timber meadow
yeah it'll be close, not sure we'll get to 6:30
willow shell
DTB gonna be better than kb
Could you explain this statement? 😄
timber meadow
okay so if i think 6 min sit and wait if its gonna be 6:30 and i can get a full dm then dont wait and send pot with the dm at 6
eternal vortex
Could you explain this statement? 😄
the smart ppl explained it in the pins
chilly viper
@ 6minute+ you have the giga combo exs/dm/vanish/pot
willow shell
the smart ppl explained it in the pins
Okay will read 😄
timber meadow
ah true so if its 6:30 then i can just send everything on cd as normal and just hold pot for 6 min full burst
burnt star
prob stupid question but on m terros ~6 min kill - would it be best to delay my ...
Not a stupid question
As a rogue u can easely live and cheese longer even when theres no more safe zone. Defenitivly dont hold because u will have an extra cast with everything at 6 min that could potentially help u get the kill if u guy are at enrage
Remember u can also feint every earth dust mechanic
timber meadow
yeah i just wouldn't wanna do that if were killing at like 6:05 or 6:10 or somethin ya know
chilly viper
its hard to know when you haven't kill it yet
burnt star
Imagine u dont kill because u hold
burnt star
That fight enrage is pretty tight
trim zinc
prob stupid question but on m terros ~6 min kill - would it be best to delay my ...
never hold if ur gonna lose a cast
chilly viper
at this timing he's not sure if he's losing a cast or no
that's what hes considering
I had the same dilemma
timber meadow
we had 2% whipe with our arcane mage and dk who normally are top 3 with me both floor pov and bottom dmg cause of that so i can see where we were at on that 2% whipe and shorten it a bit assuming the other top dps wont be dead on kill pull
chilly viper
alright well don't hold then
timber meadow
ye
chilly viper
you gonna pump hard at the end
trim zinc
and if ur gonna hold something, hold exsng to dm not dm
burnt star
The 6 min exsang fit with puzzle tho
And everything
Def worth to not hold on this. Unless u start getting sub 6 min
timber meadow
okay so im sending everything on cd (including exsng) the entire fight so that I can have a huge burst at 6 min
as opposed to holding exsng to 4 min to sync with 4 min deathmark
timber meadow
yeah good call
muted ridge
On opener with DTB exsang build. After I finish my opener and have Exsang garrote running, do I vanish Garrote on pandemic or do I let the Exsang garrote fully run out?
timber basalt
question: why do people take gouge instead of nimble fingers on pure st fights
or fights where you have ~0% chance to use gouge
(terros, eranog, diurna)
chilly viper
@limber lion You probably know this, how big is the dps difference between vanish-> garrote before dm and during
muted ridge
I remember long ago, could be back in BFA when I played Assa there was a thing to not hit garrote pandemic when it was Exsanged
wonder if its still a thing
cursive frost
I think you override the exsang’d garrote if you refresh
Let it run out, same with rupture after exsang
neon burrow
Anyone have some advice for doing well as assn on the Council fight? I was running a KB IC build for raiding but still hitting pretty low.
Any suggestions?
cursive frost
Click talents, then change to outlaw? Lol sorry couldn’t resist
thorny pond
KB + IC or just run AoE DTB and keep bleeds up
limpid ermine
Anyone have some advice for doing well as assn on the Council fight? I was runni...
tab through them all and keep bleeds up, spam envenom and fan of knives (envenom helps a lot if you have tier)
neon burrow
Click talents, then change to outlaw? Lol sorry couldn’t resist
I would if I had the weapons. It would be infinitely easier
cursive frost
Outlaw on council is brain dead
neon burrow
Facts
cursive frost
My brain is not big enough to pull assa off on council, only fight I don’t even give assa a shot on
thorny pond
Boss is pretty straightforward and "easy" so just play what you want and don't be a debuff spreading donkey
neon burrow
Is Exang largely a single target talent? It doesn't spread, right?
zinc frost
ST
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue
limpid ermine
Boss is pretty straightforward and "easy" so just play what you want and don't b...
what? you mean sprint at the pillars and run over everyone in your way???
burnt star
I would if I had the weapons. It would be infinitely easier
Then ez. Play sub lol
brittle burrow
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
obtuse latch
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz
fading adder
anyone else having cowl and ring not sim higher? it keeps telling me its a DPS lostt
vestal wren
yes
trail tree
is it cause you're losing 4set?
vestal wren
you break your 4p
trail tree
vestal wren
4p is rly high impact
fading adder
yea i have the pants in there as well.
vestal wren
depending on your setup
trail tree
it says item not found when i hover over it
vestal wren
*talent setup
can be as much as 5-6% dps
cowl even with ring likely can't make up for that
vestal wren
it says item not found when i hover over it
same, i assume thats the issue
fading adder
at least in how it was reporting the swap in gear
fading adder
try to run again, and make sure to have the correct pants
fun fact, theres two options in the drop down
vestal wren
probably one is the problem
proven saddle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/a7ttK8XN6dbtKnMLLeAGFc
Also keep in mind that the difference might be a little less than what your latest sim shows. It looks like you’re running 3 embellishments with that gear compare setup.
fading adder
right, i took that into account. i'd remove the fang from that and have it recrafted as the food one on dagger
fading adder
i dunno about remove, but you can shift it to a different thing.
thorn fjord
Trying to remove off my dagger in order to use coal
fading adder
if its the food it doesn't count. so in my eyes its like removing lol
trail tree
you sue the griftahs all purpose embelishment powder to remove the embelishment on the dagger, if you're already running lariat and you want cowl too
loud light
yes either overwrite with the food one or use griftahs powder to remove it
when recrafting
thorn fjord
Do I need to recraft or just use that item on the dagger?
trail tree
yeah you have to recraft it
fading adder
always
thorn fjord
cries in poor
trail tree
its why i took BS so i can recraft it myself lol
no one on my realm likes crafting daggers so i gotta do it myself
fading adder
theres like 1 person doing most of the agi daggers and stuff and he charges an arm and a leg
even for recrafts
itsssss kind of annoying
peak basin
Is anyone spending their valor yet? I have an avoidance+socketed Jeweled Signet of Melandrus and have been farming for Fenryr's dagger -- planning to spend all valor on these soon unless that's dumb.
red tinsel
I've been spending it every week tbh
thorn fjord
Wouldnt spend on weapon as its pretty spensive @peak basin
spice hill
Hey guys, is there a weakaura that displays envenom buff duration?
red tinsel
Got my skyrondel and melandrus to 402
red tinsel
Wouldnt spend on weapon as its pretty spensive <@284200559651586048>
Guess I'm a man of often mistakes
thorn fjord
Focusing trinkets and rings atm
red tinsel
But yeah 500 valor a pop hurts
thorn fjord
Got my Temple ring to 411 and Cos Ring... Working on puzzlebox
peak basin
Thx @red tinsel and @thorn fjord. Really appreciate the tips! Trinkets/rings -- how about M+ tier pieces?
spice spire
Moving the whetstone up to 415 
spice spire
I’ve gotten two buddy
keen spruce
I've got a socketed ring and belt so i've just been valoring htose
thorn fjord
MUST BE NICE
keen spruce
figured they won't be getting replaced ay time soon
thorn fjord
I still havent seen it drop
spice spire
And I got the melandrus signet in the vault with a socket
thorn fjord
after like 15-16 runs
keen spruce
I have 3 whetsones and 3 puzzle boxes 
spice spire
thorn fjord
I got 3 puzzle boxes this weekend too
spice spire
0 puzzle box gaming tho
thorn fjord
and 2 Signets
keen spruce
but i'm like 0-50 CoS rings
thorn fjord
my guild likes me
keen spruce
I might valor my whetstone up next to run guzzler + stone for outlaw. might outsim the H kurog zappy trinket when it's fully upgraded
thorn fjord
After i cap PB and rings i'll prob start dumping in to the tier pieces i have... but thats going to suck till valor cap is removed
keen spruce
fortunately all of my tier is from raid
for 421 CoS ring from vault tomorrow or tier shoulders so i can get a flaring cowl
hexed root
!lariat
prisma monolithBOT
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.
dull cloak
is there a reason cos ring is so much better for sin than sub/outlaw, is it the stats?
thorn fjord
Crit Haste
hexed root
dumb question, does the fire gems from lariat synergize w/ ring and cowl or is the elemental naming for lariat just flavor?
subtle tundra
whats the average pull counter on broodkeeper
red tinsel
I might valor my whetstone up next to run guzzler + stone for outlaw. might outs...
CCT doesn't exist
Every week I fail at acquiring it
peak basin
!bis
red tinsel
Same for Eranog ring
trail tree
Took us 27 pulls to get AOTC -_-
took my guild 24 and we're braindead
red tinsel
is there a reason cos ring is so much better for sin than sub/outlaw, is it the ...
Does Assa have the fastest auto attack?
trail tree
we had people die on p1 intermission to air
we're now 17 pulls into terros and our best is like 43%, apparently its hard for melee to walk right, then left then stand still to walk slightly left again 
peak basin
!neck
prisma monolithBOT
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.
thorn fjord
we're now 17 pulls into terros and our best is like 43%, apparently its hard for...
Half of our group has really good dmg uptime while the other half is really struggling =/
39% at 12 pulls for Terros atm @trail tree
shut owl
mood
tidal lily
Is sin the best single target raid spec?
shut owl
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz
red tinsel
Is sin the best single target raid spec?
Prob not
strange python
Is sin the best single target raid spec?
Arcane, enhance, unholy dk (with PI juice), and sub are all close.
red tinsel
Unholy beats it according to WarcraftLogs
thorn fjord
UH DK is a straight BEAST right now
strange python
WL is tough for that kind of thing too. If you go by boss damage it ignores that your sin rogue is likely tunneling boss on sennarth, while unholy or arcane are sending moves into things like the spider
Arcane/unholy likely could be higher on boss dam if they wanted
red tinsel
WL is tough for that kind of thing too. If you go by boss damage it ignores that...
Yeah but even then Unholy is beating Assa
strange python
Pure ST bosses are a better judge, like terros
red tinsel
Which means Assa is probably even further behind than first thought as the Unh wouldn't be tunneling
strange python
I mean I think sin could use it's nerfs being reverted because it's not even the strongest spec within it's niche. But that would make the wow community lose their fucking minds.
Sin is fine/strong this tier. Other specs are just better.
red tinsel
Yeah on Terros Unholy, Survival and Outlaw beats Assa
tidal lily
Sub seems to be competitive with outlaw on AoE in that spread sheet. Seems like a good choice
red tinsel
Assa is by no means bad though
strange python
Sub is incredibly strong and incredibly slept on.
thorn fjord
on ST dmg im only really getting beat out by our UH DK
thorn fjord
Sub is incredibly strong and incredibly slept on.
That rotation is aids fuck sub lol
strange python
Assa is by no means bad though
No but it 100000% feels like the nerfs were unnecessary
tidal lily
That rotation is aids fuck sub lol
Feels pretty bad then? Lol
sturdy light
the new talent tree looks interesting??
red tinsel
No but it 100000% feels like the nerfs were unnecessary
I definitely agree with that. Nerfs were handed out before we had 4 piece, and now that classes are getting 4p we see Assa wasn't as overturned
shut owl
sub rotation feels less jank than HO XD
red tinsel
Enhancement however....
strange python
Sub feels pretty easy to me tbh
thorn fjord
Its not that its hard
prisma carbon
hello can someone tell me what spec to play on kurog
thorn fjord
I just dont like the interactions between the CD's
strange python
That's fair
red tinsel
I love Outlaw HO right now I just feel like it could be slightly slower paced
thorn fjord
I liked how it played late SL much better tbh
strange python
Maybe next patch you'll be playing 0 CD sub with shadowdust
thorn fjord
But w/e people hated flag apparently
strange python
🙂
oblique jackal
@limber lion can you link the DTB/IC build again
strange python
I fucking hate flag. It should be off GCD
red tinsel
I loved Outlaw on season 4 having ER and Dreadblades back and forth
gloomy scroll
Sub is incredibly strong and incredibly slept on.
Sub has been my go-to outside of pure ST and even then, it's just because Assassination's feels good to stack up. I could go either way. But yeah, Sub is solid right now. Ras is one of my favorite fights as Sub.
strange python
I'm a firm believer that if sin is going to be mediocre on AoE and cleave, it should be the king of ST and it's upsetting that it got nerfed and now it isn't.
shut owl
welcome to the arms dilemma lol
gloomy scroll
It does feel like they're trying to reduce the gap on sin's inability to do AoE/Cleave for crap.
IMO sin should be super strong in ST/2 target. Used to be having Rupture/Garotte and unlimited energy with VW was so stinking strong. It just feels bad now.
2-target doesn't feel as strong for sin as it should
hexed root
2% haste hype?
strange python
So much vers
wise lantern
You guys all play Sin for M+? I love sin but considering going Sub as I’m hearing it’s better. I’m 1900io now and been doing fine Sin. Just curious
strange python
All specs are good in m+. Sub is definitely better but you won't be held back by being sin
violet jackal
2500 assassin one trick
timber basalt
is there anything we can do on hc raszageth in the 1st intermission
violet jackal
do what you enjoy your spec isn't the reason you aren't timing a key below 25
timber basalt
im like bottom dps in that phase and my platform seems very slow in clearing the adds
thorn fjord
is there anything we can do on hc raszageth in the 1st intermission
dont be afraid to use CD's
you should have all CD
CD's up when you go to first platform
timber basalt
it's not, i'm using 2nd deathmark in p1
strange python
Oh sure
timber basalt
yea obv er on cd
thorn fjord
and it'll be up by the time you got back to attack raz
strange python
But you will still do bad damage there
thick sable
You don't use CDs during add platform. You hold them for the shield when you come back
strange python
It's just not a good phase for sins DPS profile
Your job is to murder shields and p3
violet jackal
if you deathmark first add on itermision it will be up for some of shield 1 and defeintly up for shield 2
timber basalt
i have everything up for p3 shield
thorn fjord
also you have to verbally scream "RNG LORD" for PB procs
wind totem
What are our go to stats when going for crafted items? I'm trying to make a dagger for both outlaw and Sin and want a good medium
thorn fjord
yeah ER SHIV KB big add too... id hold on the fourth just to make sure you have cd's for shield
timber basalt
strange python
Lol pins doesn't answer his question
thorn fjord
What are our go to stats when going for crafted items? I'm trying to make a dagg...
Crit/Mastery if you're playing both OL and SIN
wind totem
Crit/Mastery if you're playing both OL and SIN
Thank you.
timber basalt
but he can check both faqs
strange python
Still not a great answer. Outlaw will tell him crit/vers which isn't accurate
thorn fjord
Its been answered we can move on 😛
peak basin
When is the best time to use puzzling box on boss pulls besides right before pull? Keep getting unexpected earlier pulls that doesn't let me restealth so I'd like to use it after the opener garrotte.
thorn fjord
Before DM
You shouldnt be using PB before pull unless playing OL
so you squeeze it in right after exsang and before DM
if not playing exsang just use before DM
balmy condor
!box
prisma monolithBOT
Algeth'ar Puzzle Box usage:
When playing Exsanguinate, use Puzzle Box just before pressing Exsanguinate. Otherwise always sync Puzzle Box with Deathmark.
Holding Puzzle Box and Exsanguinate for a minute to sync with the 4 minute Deathmark is generally beneficial. Using Puzzle Box on cooldown can be beneficial with very specific fight lengths.
balmy condor
We’ve always sent before exsang
spice spire
Why wouldn’t you?
thorn fjord
I thought it was before DM
peak basin
@thorn fjord appreciate the effort in the response still, lol. 🙂
spice spire
When not running Exsang yeah
thorn fjord
DERP FUCKING DERP
peak basin
Tangential question, how do I see all the !commands? Not super familiar with discord.
thorn fjord
@balmy condor would it make sense to cast PB before you vanish garrote exsang to get the full duration of garrote with the exsang or is that way too minor to make a diff
strange python
Drops off too early
balmy condor
Tangential question, how do I see all the !commands? Not super familiar with dis...
There’s a !help command for most of them, need to update it with some of the newer ones
limber lion
<@167090536602140682> would it make sense to cast PB before you vanish garrote e...
You would use Puzzle Box before you press the second Rupture
So gar slice gar sbs rup er PUZZLE rup vanish gar exs deathmark shiv env kb
thorn fjord
Nice i actually like this better
thorn fjord
you dont env before KB shiv?
thorn fjord
my opener was looking like this gar snd gar rupture er rupture sbs vanish gar exsang PB DM env KB Shiv+tea
limber lion
Yeh not sure great
thorn fjord
just going by what was in the faq honestly
brazen zodiac
2 hours in que trying to find people for a 21 RLPs
looks like its a gg and a half my friends 
thorn fjord
cedar mist
Anyone care to share their thoughts on the Sin talent tree changes coming in 10.0.5?
thorn fjord
Based
cedar mist
I see
desert orchid
Did they post a preview of them?
limpid ermine
Did they post a preview of them?
check pins, theres a good writeup in this channel
cedar mist
check pins, theres a good writeup in this channel
Hadn't caught that, thanks for pointing that out.
limpid ermine
Hadn't caught that, thanks for pointing that out.
np, should be fun hopefully to use
cedar mist
Ah having read through that I have a better grasp on the situation. Sucks for KB.
desert orchid
I hadn’t messed with kb yet myself. Was mainly going sub bc of mythic+ and no outlaw mh drops. Really wish sin would be viable in m+
balmy condor
It is
tall wharf
^
balmy condor
Wish granted
tall wharf
tho because of changes it feels sad you will lose execute under 45%
balmy condor
35%
But we do more overall damage
It’s fine
We lose sub 35%, and gain above that
cedar mist
Certainly, just one of those feelsbad moments.
Course it could just be me, but I noticed the difference sub 35%.
Granted on the M+ side of things, I should really put effort into learning Sub.
desert orchid
But did the difference above 35 make up for it?
cedar mist
At least as a backup on trash weeks.
balmy condor
But did the difference above 35 make up for it?
Yes
We’re looking at neutral or slight gains right now
And if there’s AP gains then we’re be ahead about 1%
tough gorge
How many rogues actually go ass for mythic+ right now? Would be surprised if it was more than 5%
grim tangle
at least 3
thorny pond
Sin keys are fun
balmy condor
Depends how you count
thorny pond
Just be stoned
thorn fjord
thorny pond
I have been top DPS by margins, getting harassed the entire key by fotms
so that's the worst part of sin keys
fathom hound
Hey Team! Does anyone know if Hekili is updated for Assassination? It seems a little bit off from the rotation guide in FAQ
And it never suggests using echoing or deathmark
raw raft
im like bottom dps in that phase and my platform seems very slow in clearing the...
tell the more cleave favorited classes to do more damage 
fathom hound
I know its not a perfect addon, but im using it to learn
thorny pond
Don't think it has been
@fathom hound I would just pull up the opener in #assassination-faq on second monitor
thorn fjord
And it never suggests using echoing or deathmark
might have to tinker settings to get it to show ER and DM
thorny pond
leave the image up, then the rest of the rotation is pretty straightforward after. Few rules
fathom hound
Well Ive got the opner down pat, but Im not sure what to do outside of cds
thorny pond
If you are playing DTB it's just basically keep bleeds up, shiv windows
limpid ermine
I mean hekili should help then to help you keep up your bleeds
and then just envenom spam
outside of cds
fathom hound
Ah okay, so jsut dot management and envenom spam
Only have 2 pc so Im not playing DTB yet
thorny pond
Prolly sim yourself. It's close
misty holly
dtb is best with 2 piece...
dire ivy
!logs
steep gust
in regards to pooling energy, is about 50% energy a good target to aim for before using envenom?
balmy condor
in regards to pooling energy, is about 50% energy a good target to aim for befor...
If you’re trying to squeeze out like 0.4%, sure
steep gust
If you’re trying to squeeze out like 0.4%, sure
ah so its a min/max thing - so should i just simplify my life and just press at 4+ CPs?
weak horizon
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
steep gust
roger that - thank you
balmy condor
ah so its a min/max thing - so should i just simplify my life and just press at ...
The difference between no pooling whatsoever and sim perfect pooling is about 0.8%
It’s uh
Not impressive
steep gust
i was reading your wowhead write up about poor energy pooling so got me thinking about it lol
balmy condor
Yeah
I don’t really think it’s applicable for most people
Since it’s such a min-max thing and you would end up just fucking yourself over when mechanics are involved
Like raszageth you’re basically never pooling
But on the other hand, I have to mention it
Because it’s such an iconic thing people think about when they think Assassination
So not addressing it isn’t an option
misty holly
Our damage profile has changed enough since then that the benefit doesnt beat the risk.
Pooling was good when the envenom buff was important and energy regen was slow.
balmy condor
It’s a constant battle of “do I suggest they do it even though they’ll most likely mess it up?” Or “do I tell them it’s a waste of time and then have angry boomers in my DM’s telling me that pooling is a required Assassination mechanic and I’m a dumbfuck idiot for even suggesting the notion that sin wouldn’t pool”
spice spire
We play with deeper strat
MfD when tho 
balmy condor
MfD when tho <:monkaScheme:586578756127424568>
You can play mfd in m+, sims about equal
It’s uh
Painful though
spice spire
I hate mfd
balmy condor
Idk where you’re getting another keybind
spice spire
Big meme
balmy condor
spice spire
Who needs an extra action button man
2 shift binds and we’re out here in the grustle
balmy condor
One of the highest simming m+ profiles I was testing was cold blood mfd thistle tea kb ic exsang
And I threw up a little
misty holly
Idk where you’re getting another keybind
dance pad under the desk. That's 9 more keybinds for your feet.
steep gust
It’s a constant battle of “do I suggest they do it even though they’ll most like...
lol i get it man - appreciate the work you guys do tho
balmy condor
lol i get it man - appreciate the work you guys do tho
We try our best :P
Community perception is a hell of a thing
spice spire
One of the highest simming m+ profiles I was testing was cold blood mfd thistle ...
That one should stay in the vault, king
shut owl
our windwalker monk got a steering wheel/gas pedal apparatus for holidays; I suggested he keybind his kicks to the clutch, brake, and gas pedal. just do the same with the extra sin buttons 😛
spice spire
our windwalker monk got a steering wheel/gas pedal apparatus for holidays; I sug...
I’d rather keep myself safe tbh
timber meadow
would you all actually track your sophic dev procs during prog? feel like this is something that on reclear is a nice idea for parsing but on prog could just fuck with you since fight timings are a lil more in flux during prog
balmy condor
What would you do when you see a sophic dev proc
How would that influence your gameplay
timber meadow
if you wont lose a cast, for example, holding burst until you have a sophic proc
with pot
would def be a dps increase
balmy condor
Uh huh….
misty holly
What would you do when you see a sophic dev proc
Pool energy for the proc
balmy condor
I don’t disagree that it’s a dps increase
teal bloom
I won't cast any spells until both sophic and lariat proc at the same time
balmy condor
But I think you’re pulling it way out of proportions
shut owl
I feel like I just did a review where holding something for 10 seconds made it delay 10 seconds again later, and later, until they missed a DM
subtle tundra
It’s a constant battle of “do I suggest they do it even though they’ll most like...
what is "pooling"
timber meadow
you don't think, for example, getting a sophic proc in execute with all cd's + pot is a significant dps increase relative to no proc?
subtle tundra
my fat ass doesnt like going to the pool cause im fat
spice spire
what is "pooling"
What you’re doing with loot
balmy condor
you don't think, for example, getting a sophic proc in execute with all cd's + p...
Depends on your definition of “significant”
shut owl
... yeah, geting a proc is better than not getting a proc. but playing around procs feels dodgy at best
balmy condor
If significant is like 3%, fuck no lmao
timber meadow
cev was saying 10k which was an exaggeration but he thought it was a fuckton
if you highrolled sophic procs during cds
balmy condor
10k overall?
timber meadow
he was exaggerating with that number but the gist was he thought it wasd a lot of dps
balmy condor
Nah man
grim tangle
he thought being lucky was a lot of dps, not delaying cd for it
shut owl
you'd need to proc it for every cd window for it to be significant I feel like?
balmy condor
That’s cope as fuck
timber meadow
i fyou dont lose a cast
there's no diff between getting lucky
and holyding
holding*
spice spire
Everyday I’m coping
balmy condor
In 8.3 we had vita trinket which was arguably even stronger
shut owl
okay, but how are you gonna predict your proc vs your raid's kill timer?
balmy condor
And we didn’t play around that shit ever
And that was actually an insane boost to your opener damage
timber meadow
well you would hold as long as you can until you think you'd lose a cast
shut owl
playing around the proc for the first dm would fuck your opener if you low rolled
timber meadow
same way you'd adjust cd timings anytime you believ eyou have an idea of kill time
balmy condor
There’s a gigantic difference between holding the last set of CDs you have control over, and a random rng proc
distant fog
the problem is quantity vs quality
balmy condor
We’ve had plenty of crazy ass procs in the game
shut owl
its also way different on your opening cd's vs your last cd's
balmy condor
And we haven’t played around any of them
distant fog
if your bosses have a garunteed timer that your guild is doing you have to play to squeeze the quantity of cooldowns into the time
parsing always simple like dayt
if you miss one cooldown because of holding comparitive to timing you will most likely lose out on it
based on simple logic
shut owl
sophic looks like a 50% uptime ballpark from what I'm seeing of high parses on terros?
Thats a lot of time to hold cds if you tried to play around it
distant fog
50% wtf
shut owl
#19 has a minute and a half window on the 3min timer where they didn't get a proc
distant fog
with all parsing everything is luck after a certain threshold
timber meadow
I guess one question i would have is that if I know no matter what I only have one mre use of cd's but I have like 90 seconds to play around, why wouldn't i hold for a bit to see if i happen to get a proc and if I don't just send cd's - im losing nothing by doing this ya?
distant fog
i say after 99 you dont need to worry about more dps
everyone above you just got luckier 
balmy condor
sophic looks like a 50% uptime ballpark from what I'm seeing of high parses on t...
it's closer to 24% on average, dude got god rng
shut owl
if the boss is dead and you aren't your damage was probably enough
fading wigeon
In the history of wow , we have never played around a weapon enchant. Thats some gamblers anonymous mentality haha
timber meadow
we've never had weapon enchants this strong that i can remember
balmy condor
I guess one question i would have is that if I know no matter what I only have o...
sure, if you know that it's the last cast and you aren't getting fucked by mechanics when you get a proc and you can react instantly to the proc, then you can claim some marginal dps gain
balmy condor
we've never had weapon enchants this strong that i can remember
we've had plenty of trinkets stronger than this that we completely ignored
timber meadow
for sure, was just a thought - i def wasn't tryna suggest anything - more just discuss a lil more a topic that was brought up earlier today
magic vine
dunno i think that there are probably other things you can focus on improving before trying to play around a weapon proc that will always result in better dps instead of "maybe" improving
timber meadow
i got most the basics down tbh
balmy condor
for sure, was just a thought - i def wasn't tryna suggest anything - more just d...
yeah I mean you have a point, but it's basically the last thing I would ever think about
is it a gain? sure
can't argue that
shut owl
it's closer to 24% on average, dude got god rng
really? huh. thats kinda wild. I mean, I'm cheap as hell still so I'm rolling one sophic one frozen for m+ flexibility
balmy condor
but the amount of effort for the amount of gain seems really skewed
magic vine
yea but do you have them down to the point of never messing them up while also maximizing uptime on the boss and not messing up encounter mechanics? every time?
balmy condor
really? huh. thats kinda wild. I mean, I'm cheap as hell still so I'm rolling o...
that would also be 24% uptime :P
shut owl
does double sophic not increase your uptime?
timber meadow
@balmy condor totally agree
shut owl
ah
timber meadow
the only time it doens't feel like much effort is if/when I know i got one more opportunity to press cd's and that's it - in htat case, seems easy enough to wait a bit
@magic vine for the most part yeah, i only really play assa on one or two figbhts
shut owl
I've been rolling DK and lock for so long that I've forgotten what weapon enchants are like 😛
magic vine
yea, just saying that in my experience when someone is trying to parse out those situations, even when assisted with some ui stuff, they're likely to make small mistakes that pretty much zero out potential gains
timber meadow
yeah i agree - whenever I try somethign new i usually fail the first couple times
magic vine
its a lot more boring and more difficult to analyze your play and tighten up your rotation or other things for sure, but its better results unless you're perfectly playing already
timber meadow
I wouldn't say its perfect but the things that aren't perfect im aware of and they're fairly minor
maybe like one finisher worth of overcapping, some energy overflow, not being aggressive enough with sbs - that sorta thing
magic vine
thats the salient point though: trying to play around the weapon proc is also fairly minor, but is only applicable to one specific situation, while those other things apply everywhere (and may add up to more than someone might think offhand)
timber meadow
that said, I've posted a few logs for review, posted one yesterday but dont think anyones gotten around to it - so always lookin to improve
i think you read wayyy too deep into me bringing it up - was just curious how worthwhile it'd be
and relative to the amount of time i spend on the core rotation the amount of time ive spent thinking about that is prob 0.01% of my time
brazen zodiac
lots of logs to review lol
timber meadow
oh yeah idc lol wouldn't have brought it up but was just relevant to the convo
magic vine
its just a general approach discussion, not trying to read into your play personally. it can be hard to figure out whats worth trying to optimize, because its a balance of difficulty/reward/potential loss.
timber meadow
yeah I guess the way I think about this discord is like im not gonna bring up all the basic rotational stuff that I am always working on but already know theoretically what's right and is just about practice
more interested in bringing up random niche things here
that probably i wont spend much time on but are more intersteing to talk about than "why do I keep fucking up my opener"
balmy condor
yeah I guess the way I think about this discord is like im not gonna bring up al...
that died a while ago sadly
the discords original intent was to have deep conversations like that and optimize and min-max with a bunch of really good rogues
but as it and the community grew
class discords are more of a help desk these days
balmy condor
I'm not saying you should, it's great that you think that way honestly
but like 95% of our traffic is "guys new sin rogue when puzzle box?"
magic vine
i see a decent amount of in-depth talk stuff, but it can be hard to parse a legit "hrmm i wonder if we can squeeze out another 0.5% dps doing X" from someone just wilding out
teal bloom
No idea how single shiv can even sim higher than 2 in dungeonslice when it misses half of the casts
balmy condor
No idea how single shiv can even sim higher than 2 in dungeonslice when it misse...
built diffy
stiff vale
IMO it's something that happens often with Discord. This is why I miss message boards 
you could always go back and reference old threads which were more easily searchable
magic vine
discords a lot messier for that for sure
balmy condor
IMO it's something that happens often with Discord. This is why I miss message b...
I've been thinking about ways to figure out something practical for that but it's rough with how shit discords thread and forum implementations are
somber hill
I know puzzle box is before Deathmark, but should we sync subsequent puzzle box casts to do the same? Or does it follow the syncing logic of if you will get X casts of it through fight and wont miss a cast then sync it?
balmy condor
!box
prisma monolithBOT
Algeth'ar Puzzle Box usage:
When playing Exsanguinate, use Puzzle Box just before pressing Exsanguinate. Otherwise always sync Puzzle Box with Deathmark.
Holding Puzzle Box and Exsanguinate for a minute to sync with the 4 minute Deathmark is generally beneficial. Using Puzzle Box on cooldown can be beneficial with very specific fight lengths.
somber hill
ty
stiff vale
I mean you can search on discord, it's just not nearly as intuitive. I just miss being able to find a thread where it's set specifically to that topic, rather than random topics scattered in between.
coral elk
!fuu