assassination

[subtle tundra]

it is vod

[bleak sky]

[magic vine]

time to take elusive 😄

[dim yacht]

it really does just hurt that much

[meager granite]

You would have survived with the 10% stamina talents of outlaw that they have for absolutely no reason

[dim yacht]

i did 21 nok this week and it was a similar story

shit hurts

[subtle tundra]

my healer literally told me to just take a talent like he has which gives him stamina

[magic vine]

get that 20% dr on feint

[dim yacht]

i didnt get one shot, but it hurt

[subtle tundra]

sure buddy

i dont have outlaw privelage

[teal bloom]

@flint tusk kb/ic higher aoe and likely slightly higher overall. However, dtb has higher st damage. Highest ranked assa m+ seem to play ic/kb everywhere but dtb can be good if you struggle more with bosses than trash

[subtle tundra]

i played dtb in 23 sbg

it was cool

big dmg on boss adds

[dim yacht]

yeah i think you can make a case for dtb in shadowmoon and court

[flint tusk]

awesome thank you.
i was wondering that as on Murlok.io there is a straight even split

[dim yacht]

so the reason for that is the whole dynamic changes at higher keys. ic loses value when youre on lower keys, often because the pulls are smaller, and tanks chain less effectively

in practice, once youre at the level where tanks start pulling bigger and chain pull properly (where you dont get fucked by not being able to restealth) IC will pull ahead by a very large margin

then theres some keys (in my opinion, court and shadowmoon) where you can justify taking dtb, because there arent really many big pulls to begin with, though there are a few, so you could go either way

[subtle tundra]

hov feels like a decent dtb dungeon

a lot of st

and the bosses are really hard

[magic vine]

court has those imp packs, dunno how tanky they are on upper keys but aoe silence on them is super good in my shitty level experience

[dim yacht]

i did think about that varas, but the issue i have there is the trash pulls are still pretty large and benefit from IC, and the aoe silence is huge

[dim yacht]

would depend on your groups comp. i think IC can be good on court on fort for sure though

just doesnt feel very impactful on tyrannical, because theres like....two big pulls in the entire dungeon, before the first boss

and thats it

[magic vine]

i'm waiting to see how bad/good ap + dtb (or kb i guess) is

[subtle tundra]

is ap implemented yet?

[magic vine]

if it'll just fall off super hard in high target counts or what

[dim yacht]

no

i think itll fall off at high target count, yes

just like dbt does now

i dont think thered be any place or week you wouldnt run IC with something, unless its court of stars or shadowmoon

talking about high keys mind you, lower keys it changes as i mentioned above

[magic vine]

the biggest issue seems like just not having the instant dots out, though shiv will juice them up nicely (and do a decent sized hit if you take tiny toxic?)

[dim yacht]

im not convinced ttb will be that big of a deal. i mean

shiv will do what. 13-15k damage?

thats barely more than the instant damage from CT

[magic vine]

1500% ap

[dim yacht]

is ap 1500 now?

wait nvm i misread

ignore that

[magic vine]

in total right?

[dim yacht]

13-15k damage per target

[magic vine]

my brain is snoozy let me think

[dim yacht]

so if 5 target scenario, your shiv will do slightly more damage than the instant damage from CT

im just not seeing that as a huge deal

i guess on fort weeks, you could justify it over blindside?

[magic vine]

60% ap, does 500% more, so 300% ap per target, 5 targets for 1500 total?

[dim yacht]

were talking about the actual damage itself from shiv, when using TTB

[magic vine]

yea

[dim yacht]

ap is irrelevant to TTB except for the fact that shiv is going to hit 5 targets. currently, my shiv does 2.8k damage

itll have 500% more from TTB

thats 16.8k damage

so what im saying is, TTB is going to do 16.8k damage to do 5 targets, which is a bit higher than i thought ill admit. so its 50% more than the instant damage from CT

i dont see that as a game changer. i think you can justify taking ttb over blindside on fort weeks, but on tyran weeks id rather have blindside for bosses

either way, i dont think its a massive deal overall

[magic vine]

yea then you're boosting bleed/poison by 20% each, which is going to be ct for sure, weap poisons for sure, some amount of garrote/rupture/poison bomb

[dim yacht]

yes i know what ap does. im strictly talking about blindside vs ttb

when going for ap

[magic vine]

oh blindside vs ttb, hrm

[dim yacht]

yeah

the shiv nature/bleed bonus isnt relevant to ttb

its still ttb vs blindside

[magic vine]

yea my mind was on ap - v - ic thoughts

[dim yacht]

i dont think ap will be better than IC

if youre thinking dtb/ap. i think thats fine if youre playing court of stars or shadowmoon

but otherwise i think dtb/ic everytime, or ic/ap on enraging weeks

[magic vine]

without numbers i'd hazard blindside being better most of the time?

[dim yacht]

i think so yes

but it might move ttb from f tier to like....d tier

[magic vine]

i think you'd need some extended "never ambush/mutilate" stuff

[dim yacht]

idk

well, bosses always exist

[magic vine]

yea

[dim yacht]

for the most part, youre comparing % ST increase from blindside on boss fights to % aoe increase from ttb

if there was an option to take ttb instead of systemic failure, then i think youd have a real case point to actually take ttb instead

or actually maybe not, idk

ttbs placement is just too awkward to take imo

[magic vine]

yea no matter how you're getting down there you're taking something to buff amb/mut

[dim yacht]

maybe if ttb did like....1000% increase instead

all in all, i dont think we will see ttb worthwhile, or if it is itll be like....mostly neutral

[magic vine]

at the very least it'd need an execute component like blindside

[dim yacht]

or what if ttb increased the shiv duration

then thered be a real case point to take one over the other

[magic vine]

blindsides better on energy as well

[dim yacht]

yeah its definitely nice

[magic vine]

since shiv is only 20 and you definitly get a blindside proc every 25 seconds

[midnight phoenix]

What do people prefer for M+? Dragon or KB? Ive just swapped to KB to try it out and boss fights is a huge increase for dps

[vestal wren]

KB + IC seem like a good combo

[subtle tundra]

Umm dtb is more st tho

[near magnet]

which trinkets comb are the best for st ?

[spice inlet]

anyone got the link for the Spiteful Storm macros?

[flint tusk]

Can someone explain this to me?
Is it purely because of how bad my current helm is?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/geGNDh3TxeNsaeaEA9mWjz

i've kept the enchants at their currently level just for comparisons sake i know the devotions are cheap as chips now

[bitter compass]

Anyone know if these changes are coming with 10.0.5? Or earlier?
https://youtu.be/soeJDoXOMj8

[balmy condor]

those are all 10.0.5

[balmy condor]

partly shit helm party flaring cowl being just good

[bitter compass]

Thinking the builds will change? Or only take new passive for raging weeks?

[flint tusk]

thank you for confirming 🙂

[balmy condor]

not really

but I'm gonna try

we're getting somewhere

it's slowly coming together

but uh

[flint tusk]

i have to say i'm looking forward to 10.0.5 more and more

[balmy condor]

it's pretty whack

also if you're going to ask about kingsbane

don't

it's bad

[grim jay]

cb for that insane aoe ttb shiv? make the dream work

[balmy condor]

nah

I resimmed

and just dropped it

and it was fine

[craggy nimbus]

So you would suggest I DTB a go instead?

[junior aurora]

dtb/ic prob the play

[craggy nimbus]

I give DTB*

[junior aurora]

obv cant do that until 10.0.5 tho

[balmy condor]

in 10.0.5? yeah

in 10.0.2? KBIC very good

10.0.5 KBIC is gigadogshit

swamp ass

[junior aurora]

losing execute is a bitch

[craggy nimbus]

Alright cool. I've been offline for 2-3 days now so I've missed the whole discussion over the weekend.

Are there new builds up for 10.0.6 already or we wait until it drops?

.5*

Dammit

[grim jay]

you literally saw whispyr simming combinations for 10.0.5

tho

[craggy nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/community-small-gif-5412400

But true, thanks.

[balmy condor]

spreadsheet is already updated for single target

dungeonslice is dumb and stupid and if anyone simplifies it down to "assassination sim low dungeonslice = bad" I will find where they live and kiss them goodnight on the forehead with an 8 inch chefs knife cause that's the dumbest shit I have ever read in my life and anyone who says that has less than no clue what they're talking about

[grim jay]

I think most people got onto the "no sin in m+ because more effort" train so far

😄

[subtle tundra]

I will touch you

[balmy condor]

you seem like the type of guy who enjoys having all his fingers

[subtle tundra]

Weirdly, yes

[grim jay]

really weird

[junior aurora]

why do sin in m+ when i can just pump the overall faster as sub 🤔

[craggy nimbus]

Thanks, I'll give it a look when I get back home.

[vestal wren]

10.0.5

[grim jay]

uh boy, watching certain youtubers about patchnotes

[meager granite]

Sin in pugs where tanks chain pulls badly makes you wanna altf4

[subtle tundra]

Did you sim cb used on shiv in aoe instead of ct?

[balmy condor]

haven't gotten that dank yet

[grim jay]

bro living the CB AoE TTB Shiv dream aswell

[subtle tundra]

Those huge ttb shivs go hard af

[junior aurora]

im ready to solo the first pack of nokhud and then do nothing to the boss 😎

[grim jay]

probably unironically the best usecase for CB in aoe

as sin

😄

[marble hemlock]

@balmy condor can't wait to have another 20% amp for exsanguinate

Hbu?

[grim jay]

make exsang great again

[subtle tundra]

Oh fuck oh shit on man why you have to use your brain

😭

[balmy condor]

yep it's already pulling ahead in sims master assassin dead again

[marble hemlock]

[balmy condor]

not kingsbane dead

but like

dead enough to probably not play

[marble hemlock]

Yeah idk

[grim jay]

blizzard listening to how much people like exsang

and giving them some more juice

[marble hemlock]

Was nice having kingsbane back for 2 months. Now is time to say goodbye again

[tawdry dust]

they should have deleted exang ans just change kb to just scale with 1 poison

[grim jay]

[subtle tundra]

Kb appreciators Unite

The 3 of us

[balmy condor]

the most annoying part of KB is how far down I have to scroll to find it in my sims

[junior aurora]

bring back prenerf exsang and just swap it w/ ap on the tree

[subtle tundra]

[meager granite]

Or you could..... Destroy exsang!

[junior aurora]

make exsang aoe fuck it

aoe shiv that applies exsang

[meager granite]

Budget vein ripper seli's dream is nearly there

[viscid spear]

Or play another class

[willow sundial]

!spreadsheet

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[solid mica]

Kb dead? Wtf i love that talent why

[weak kraken]

What actually is the AoE of fan of knives. Tooltip says 15yd, talent says increase to 12yd

[solid mica]

Acrobatic strikes

[marble hemlock]

im guessing you also have acrobatic strikes talented

[turbid canopy]

in the exsanguinate dtb build do you puzzle box with every exsanguinate or offset it for the next deathmark after first burst?

[flint gulch]

Does anyone have Rotation WA for DtB?

[unique laurel]

!logs

[flint gulch]

Which DtB build requires the least amount of keybinds?

[grim jay]

DH

[marble hemlock]

evoker dps

is like

5 buttons

[grim jay]

uh didnt know its that bad

tho dh gained some stuff to press so it probably sits at like 6

[flint gulch]

For ranged spec MM feels pretty neat

[marble hemlock]

evoker dmg distribution

and glacial fury is flask so

[balmy condor]

10.0.5 PTR
If you haven't read the notes for the PTR changes coming in the next couple of weeks, read the attached image.

AP - New Capstone stuff:
It's...... okay? It probably needs some more APL support since it drastically changes the value of shiv in all situations. Some ideas so far include syncing with Deathmark, using Cold Blood on it in aoe, there's a lot to work through logic wise with it, and it will take time. It's bubbling up in some dungeonslice sims, as well as specifically for kingsbane single target (more on that later). These might be random timings that are already good, or it's actually just good and the APL will show another 1% on top, right now still up in the air. It's exciting though, aoe de-enrage and some damage buff in cleave.

The Kingsbane Situation:
It's bad. Really bad. Kingsbane was semi-reliant on good pathing through zoldyck and blindside as a built-in part of its value. Now it shares all previous nodes with DTB, which is problematic because not only is DTB doubling the effects of dashing, it's also getting inherently more value from picking Amp poison. TTK is still really pathetic, but it shows up in kingsbane builds for m+ now, because Amp aoe is just not good. Even in single target, kingsbane is really suffering, and regardless of situation, you can expect kingsbane to be about 5-6% behind a comparable DTB build. With current tuning, kingsbane is essentially just dead on arrival for 10.0.5.

Where new builds?
For the most part, they don't actually change. Arterial is showing some signs of life in m+ builds and very specifically council in raids, but it doesn't shine until 3-5 target cleave. It's not that impressive on 2 target, and the single target value is struggling to compete with shrouded and bone spike.

Where Puzzle Box pin?
Moved to FaQ please stop asking about the channeled trinkets thank you

Where Sims?
As we work on the APL and continue to optimize the new trees, the latest knowledge we have is contained in my spreadsheet here on the second page: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
Or type !whispyr in chat
If you have any suggestions, please let me know, and I hope you're excited for the next patch!

[balmy condor]

little reshuffling

[grim jay]

well atleast only kingsbane itself is dead, not most of the path

so they might get it buffed for good

[royal lantern]

pinned the pins

[royal lantern]

the path has blindside and zoldyck

[grim jay]

yeah, meant it just like there are specs that have a good last talent

but the path is bad af

that would require multiple talents to be changed/buffed probably

and if now only KB lacks strength, you could potentially buff it easier from a blizzard point

[subtle tundra]

ttk is probably good on kb m+ bcs the apl doesnt change poisons, right?

[cinder moat]

Hi, when would you recommend not to take Indiscriminate Carnage in M+? I have seen some people do it on tyrannical weeks

But it feels really bad on trash tho 😄

[subtle tundra]

eh

it felt good in sbg

[cinder moat]

Would you still take crimson tempest then too?

Or rather go full st

[subtle tundra]

there's the dtb build in #assassination-faq

[frosty anchor]

!neck

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png

[toxic burrow]

IC should spread Deathmark to nearby targets as well. :<

[cunning surge]

That would be DISGUSTING

[royal lantern]

IC should spread my depression to nearby targets aswell

[dense jetty]

We don’t want to cripple them

[trail tree]

[balmy condor]

Yeah but are you seriously going to tell me that amp is better than ttk because you swap into it for 3 bosses that take maybe 3 minutes each

[royal lantern]

but man, i love how instead of working/reworking exsang, we just get a talent that boosts bleeds by 20%, making exsang even MORE mandatory 🙂

[toxic burrow]

OUR depression.

[vestal abyss]

Based on pins, it sounds like I might just start getting used to running dtb now

[subtle tundra]

yes

[balmy condor]

Yikes

[next edge]

DTB gamers arise

get fooked kingsbaners

[next edge]

Just don't take the capstone

no?

[dark token]

dtb is kingsbanebane

[rare jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/bane-cia-bane-posting-for-you-big-guy-gif-14052642

DTB rogues be like

[dark token]

move kingsbane to exang position

choice node

[thorn crater]

so from what i am readiung from pins

everything i got attacked on yday on my thoughts on the new tree is basically correct

lovely

nice to see how people overreact to someone actually thinking things out loud instead of sheeping.

so basically in order for AP to be competitive with the other 2 capstones it needs some kind of love, and KB definitely needs buffs to compete

[balmy condor]

AP is competitive with 0 APL support

[thorn crater]

in m+ vs DTB and IC?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[thorn crater]

guess we will see

[flint ridge]

how do you guys open with manic and puzzle for dtb bleed??? :p

i follow the new infographic but there's two fo em 😦

[thorn crater]

first world problems having both manic and puzzle

sigh

[flint ridge]

HAHA

[thorn crater]

i envy you 😛

[timber meadow]

love noit being able to gem correctly cause nobody on my server makes them...

[formal cliff]

Be the change you want to see

[storm onyx]

If i were a dev; I would have put an internal threshold to the puzzle box; where it becomes instant cast after, sinc you know; we all memorized the damn cube

[balmy condor]

New battle.net integration to speedrun.net, have to prove you can solve a rubix cube in under a minute in order to unlock instant cast puzzle box

[storm onyx]

Ahaha

[lusty surge]

Aw man kb being doa makes me sad

Really enjoyed the burst in m+

[ebon notch]

When you setting some trackmania records

[royal lantern]

cant have everything

[balmy condor]

Never, I’m too shit

[royal lantern]

2,5k reached, all my m+ goals done

[next edge]

as Sin?

[lusty surge]

Nicely done

[royal lantern]

weekly 20 and raidlogging now

[royal lantern]

ofc

[next edge]

I did 2,5k on wed I think,today we tried an AV 20 with guildies

overtime of 47 minutes

[royal lantern]

3rd boss av is a brutal boss dmg check

[next edge]

Tbh I might just push to 2,6k and stop for a bit

[next edge]

That and frozen bombs killing with 1 tick

[ebon notch]

I had to get a timer for it

I died twice to that mechanic on a 21

[next edge]

I think the "trick" is jump at 0,5

so you avoid 1 tick

still, it's super tight

[ebon notch]

It's premoving

[royal lantern]

premove or you die

[ebon notch]

One tick is unavoidable

[royal lantern]

ye

2nd tick kills

[ebon notch]

2nd tick is just premoving

[next edge]

that boss needs a nerf tbh

[ebon notch]

Or insta health pot

[royal lantern]

you need to spread good and just start moving at 1sec before it happens

and yes, the boss needs a nerf

many still do

idk how much higher you can go in AV in tyranical, doesnt the hp scaling make this boss borderline impossible then

[next edge]

I think max done is a 23

or a 22

[royal lantern]

cus like, you have 3 runes, 4th cast is a wipe

dunno

[next edge]

Top done is a 24 on tyra

only 3 23s

[royal lantern]

and i learned during my pug adventures

never take a warrior tank

never

avoid all of them

[next edge]

So basically only 38 groups timed it on 22+

[balmy condor]

Ice goes away and runes respawn

[next edge]

yep

[royal lantern]

wait really?

i thought its a hard enrage lol

[next edge]

DPS doesnt matter

its all survive

nah, runes respawn

[royal lantern]

still doesnt change my opinion: NEVER. TAKE. WARRIOR. TANKS

they all suck hard and get hard carried by how OP prot warrior is, every single one of them

[next edge]

I play with a Warr tank and he's a blessing kekw

[storm onyx]

Have you tried to see if runes reactivated if they were not covered by frost at all?

[polar cape]

True just take a bear

[royal lantern]

like

the amount of 2,7k warrior tanks

that charge into a pack and die in 3seconds

is mindblowing

and then instantly cry healer

[balmy condor]

What?

[next edge]

Dk's at least require more skill

but htey are insanelñy good too

The worst by miles are poor Brew

[balmy condor]

What does the ice have to do with the runes

[next edge]

they die within a blow of wind

[balmy condor]

[storm onyx]

All times I ran, we covered the runes with the patches; I was wondering if thats a mechanic to recharge them

[balmy condor]

No

That’s not a thing

[storm onyx]

Ah alright

[royal lantern]

@next edge get a paladin tank and you can sleep on interupts and have a CR tank

[next edge]

DOn't they do fucking mad dmg too?

[royal lantern]

paladin tank needs to decide bettwen good st or good aoe iirc

the bigger problem for them is more like, they can actually run out of bigger deffensive stuff

[toxic burrow]

Yogg-Saronn's Algeth'aran Puzzlebox: You attempt to solve the puzzlebox. Yogg laughs inside your skull. You begin to cry.

[royal lantern]

but thats all tanks tbh, only not prot warrior cus they just go LMAO SHIELD BLOCK IM IMMORTAL xDDDD

i like how tank/healer balance is such a shitshow rn and blizz just ignores it

[next edge]

4 first pages of Raider.io

are Evoker, Druid and Paladin healer

and 1 Priest

that's it

[upper crown]

Might be a stupid question but is there a big difference in wind fury value between KB/DtB?

[royal lantern]

@next edge well, turns out, when prot warrior is immortal by using its active mitigation only when all other tanks struggle while weaving CD's, and also has stupid aoe dmg+shout+rally cry, something is fucked

same with healers, druid is 1 of the 2 healers with a CR, the best healing pattern for dungeons, 0 movment punishment cus all they do is instant casts, and dont care about healing mechanics cus they just put 2hots on people and they are instantly full hp when the dmg happens 🙂

dont need to be stacked like for other healers when stuff happens, just put your 20year duration hots on people when a fight starts and you can go afk

healer balance ftw

[next edge]

yeap

also evokers heal for a fuck ton

and I think Paladins have really good burst healing

like 1 holy shock -> you're topped

plus CR, Devo aura, immunity...

[royal lantern]

atleast for evoker people need to be stacked

druids just dont care about healer mechanics

dont need stacking

dont care about movment

dont spend any mana

best DR on a low CD, tanky af by itself

[next edge]

And also really good utility

with the push, desenrage, personal DR, etc

[subtle tundra]

both druid and evoker have really short cd external

[toxic burrow]

This gets on my nerves with some groups on my evoker. Had a few with three ranged DPS and they decided to always stand apart from each other like they wanted to form a triangle around the tank.

[heavy elk]

Up to how many targets do we continue to maintain rupture on in AoE, when IC is on CD?

[pliant nest]

are the trinket changes already live/implemented in simcraft?

[dark token]

paladin actually fotm

[dark token]

legit have had 0 good holy pal healers

they feel wheelchair

[strange python]

maybe I'm stupid, or I'm bad at math, but isn't it 10 cp here? 3+2+2+3 it's 10, and the maximum is 6

why simc wasting cp?

[proper tapir]

Classic... sand bagging the sims

[limber lion]

Can you link the sim?

That looks very sus

[strange python]

ye https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nFE3eLRWy8R3nA4P3W8yFn

[royal lantern]

why is it using vanish so weird

[strange python]

I tried to do about 5 simulations, thinking it's just a mistake

but...

they are completely the same at the beginning

[limber lion]

Yeah looks like Koji's most recent change to Shrouded Suffocation broke it

It's only giving 1cp per garrote after the first one

[agile geode]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[limber lion]

Thanks for letting us know :)

[gusty mirage]

It’s in the pins

[royal lantern]

sandbagging smh my head

[nocturne current]

@gusty mirage You used to run quite a lot of DTB in M+ no?

[gusty mirage]

Ye on tyran weeks and smbg

[nocturne current]

In aoe packs when you're spamming crimson do you ever stop to rotate around the mobs to blow up the 10 stacks of amp or just keep crimsoning?

[gusty mirage]

Usually just CT unless there’s a problem mob that needs to die

[strange python]

no-no, it thank you for help

[gusty mirage]

Then I just sprinkle in envenoms into it when amp hits at least 10 stacks

[strange python]

I already thought I was doing the wrong thing

(sorry for the mistakes, English is not my native language)

[limber lion]

I thought the pin was in reference to the dslice changes that broke everything dslice-related

[nocturne current]

Yeah.. I started noticing if mobs start to get to 14-15 stacks actually just blowing the envenom seems to do slightly above damage if I already have the crimson dot in them, I wasn't doing that..

[gusty mirage]

Yeah it’s especially nice if you have unga bunga pugs who like kick the domination cast early for example

Cause 100% they’re not kicking it again

[gusty mirage]

Yeah I think there was something causing the pmultiplier to act all funky or something making it do weird vanish stuff

[subtle tundra]

i love sbg cause i have to beg in discord to let me silence

and if they get kicked by something else, i get blamed

[limber lion]

Yeh my bad.

[gusty mirage]

[gusty mirage]

No it’s MY bad

[viscid spear]

Can always rely on pugs to kick something they shouldn't and forget to kick when they should

[gusty mirage]

[viscid spear]

[gusty mirage]

Cev’s my favorite rogue to ever rogue btw

[gusty mirage]

“Forget”

[viscid spear]

Next tier set you be named after Cev

[gusty mirage]

I had a DK tank ask me to not silence the domination cast

And then he runs in

[nocturne current]

Haha.

[gusty mirage]

And just hits slappy hands

Like…. k

[viscid spear]

Grippy hands yep

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/galaxy-brain-meme-gif-25947987

[viscid spear]

Veng DH puts down silence rune

[limber lion]

Come here you sexy man

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/love-is-the-answer-to-everything-hug-friend-friendship-love-you-gif-18507424

[nocturne current]

Everytime Cev and Oxi talk there's a homo-erotic tension in the channel

[viscid spear]

Ugh, gonna get the diabeetus

[gusty mirage]

Cev’s my brother from another mother

He yelled at me to apply for higher WR guilds when I was swapping guild last time and told me to stop shitting on myself

[nocturne current]

It's poetic almost

[gusty mirage]

Now I’m a pretty decent rogue

He also answers all my silly questions

[mortal venture]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[marble hemlock]

oxi saying hes decent. what a day

[nocturne current]

Damn Seli already 3k, congrats man

[gusty mirage]

I finally got that fancy 100 parse in normal I can’t deny it any longer

[marble hemlock]

sick

gotta collect some more ilvl parses

those always make me feel better

[gusty mirage]

My guild noticed I was cranking in raid too it was kinda funny

[marble hemlock]

kill boss, 100* on ilvl, 1/1. im a living god.

[gusty mirage]

Apparently genuinely enjoying the game means you play better

[marble hemlock]

its crazy right

[gusty mirage]

Crazy concept

[marble hemlock]

now imagine

if you genuinely enjoyed life

[gusty mirage]

[marble hemlock]

youd parse better irl

[gusty mirage]

Working on that as well

[marble hemlock]

[gusty mirage]

Hoping my euro vacation later this year will help with that

[nocturne current]

Can you guys write me a written and signed justification so my RL doesn't put me again doing staff in brood please.

[gusty mirage]

I can get my RL to talk to your RL if you want

Because when I volunteered I was told no

[nocturne current]

You already know where you going?

[gusty mirage]

“You do too much boss damage, so you’re sitting on the boss”

[raw raft]

it's okay i'm doing staff guys

with my fellow rogue

and our tank

who doesn't know his lefts from his rights

[gusty mirage]

Right now looking like Germany into the Netherlands

[ebon notch]

@gusty mirage did you hear, cev has gone full cow

[gusty mirage]

I have

My RL actually brought it up last night

[ebon notch]

i will join him on reset

[gusty mirage]

I was like “k send me the gold”

I’m not paying for a race change to war stomp sparks

The fuck outta here with that

[ebon notch]

i mean

by the time you get there

it will be nerfed

also guild is paying

[gusty mirage]

That was also a point I made

[polar cape]

Isn’t AT same thing anyway

[gusty mirage]

Imma spend the race change on mechangome because how funny would it be, if my RL gave me 300k gold

And I show up as mechagnome a instead of a cow

[polar cape]

Show up as high mountain

[ebon notch]

sued for fraud smh

[polar cape]

Same cows diff purpose

[random fossil]

Very funny actually

[gusty mirage]

“Oh TAUREN? I thought you meant diaper baby”

Speaking of doing weird shit

@limber lion I need a reason to not swap outlaw for kurog

I was told I could use a spark on a 418 sword

[limber lion]

Boss damage very necessary, Assa does more boss damage

easy

[raw raft]

gotta do boss dam to kill the boss

[gusty mirage]

Kurog seems pretty damn good for assa tbh

[opal elm]

does this affect other specs

[gusty mirage]

And everyone cleaves so dunno

[limber lion]

Honestly not too bad

[raw raft]

I even tried to explain how my outlaw gear is shit and my rl didn't care

[gusty mirage]

I did that and the next 1hander that dropped they gave me

[dark token]

if ur group is struggling intermission its outlaw

if u struggle boss dam go sin

we had some frost dk and mm go unholy/bm

[gusty mirage]

We always struggle on boss damage lmao

[dark token]

then its a valid reason :)

[gusty mirage]

Killing adds is never our issue

[raw raft]

sorry the dh's in my guild cleave the wrong add first in intermission

[limber lion]

You can struggle in intermission?

[dark token]

no

[limber lion]

Exactly

[gusty mirage]

People will swap out a ST talent for 5% more cleave to pad

[limber lion]

We stop dps for like 20s entirely

[ebon notch]

only time i do any damage is intermission

padding on the smallies

[raw raft]

it's okay, i'll never forget when my rl made me swap outlaw for heroic dathea week 1 because of adds

[dark token]

same

[ebon notch]

and then viklund filters it out 😦

[dark token]

im outlaw pad build

go brr

[gusty mirage]

Based

[jaunty gulch]

if puzzle box is available but death mark is on cooldown BUT ALSO Kingsbane is available do I sent it + Kingsbane or hold until next deathmark

[raw raft]

depends on the fight length i think?

[jaunty gulch]

A) Kings Bane + Puzzle full send or
B) Hold Puzzle -> Kings Send no trinket

[limber lion]

You would have Kingsbane with the next Deathmark as well

So you would hold puzzle box and send everything together 1 minute later

[jaunty gulch]

I'm gonna use Kings off cd no matter what

only thing to hold is the puzzle

[limber lion]

Yes

[jaunty gulch]

kk ty

[foggy socket]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[jaunty gulch]

this is a bit niche but does anyone have a combo point WA that uses NUMBERS IE: just a normal red Number that says "6" when I have 6 as opposed to the super extravagant weakauras I keep seeing on Wago.io

[storm onyx]

there used to be one, also an addon was displayinh Cp count as it refreshes over your character head

forgot the name tho

was it Milk Scrolling?

MikScrollingbattleText afaik

its a bit loaded to get just for 1 function tho

[midnight atlas]

Does this apply to dtb? Hold puzzlebox for dm ?

[thorny pond]

If the fight timer lines up, yes

[oblique jackal]

is there a way to sim m+ upgrades for valor?

[raw raft]

basically, if fight is gonna allow for 3 uses of your 3 min, send 2nd on cd to get the last use with DM at the end, but if it's less than 6 min i would hold for DM

[storm onyx]

Top gear can do it if you click on the little + sign on the said item on the list

it gives you a list of upgrade selections

[weak isle]

!log

[storm onyx]

If you want to sim gear you dont have, you will need to use Gear Compare

[oblique jackal]

ty Cin!

im new to pv

[limber lion]

Yes

[raw raft]

i can't tell by looking at logs but i figure it's true but i'll ask anyways, you should hold dm for potion if the fight is gonna be over before your 4th use of dm?

[limber lion]

The "should I hold X for Y" logic applies to everything in the game and the answer is always "If you do not miss a cast, it is a good idea to hold and sync."

[raw raft]

[limber lion]

The same goes for "Should I hold cds for execute?" and "should I hold cds for lust?" and "should I hold potion for cds?" and "should I hold cds for a damage amp?" and so on :P

[weak isle]

anyone could look at my log?

[stiff ferry]

would that be viable once 10.0.5 comes out? for m+

[limber lion]

Not at all.

Kingsbane is really bad, Flying Daggers is not super great, EP is super good which you don't have

[nocturne current]

Shift those poison talents to the left

[limber lion]

You should just play IC + DTB instead

[stiff ferry]

Is not having blindside a big deal for m+ ? Has there been any build released for 10.0.5

[limber lion]

No, Blindside is not great in m+ because you don't use Mutilate/Ambush as often

Neither is Systemic Failure or VV

[subtle tundra]

builds wont be released until 10.0.5 is released

[winter gale]

Any tip for terros?

[limber lion]

Kill boss

[winter gale]

😂😂

[stiff ferry]

whats the point of the new talent if people arent going to play it in m+

[limber lion]

They might

You don't know that

[winter gale]

I meant any rogue tip/trick for the fight itself

But yeah, we will try to kill

[stiff ferry]

its a spank and tank, just live while doing you're best rotation

feint when the pillar are about to be blasted

[late veldt]

Do ur target dummy rotation and stay alive

[stiff ferry]

you can cloak 1-2 soak to help your healers i guess

[stiff ferry]

you cant reach the new talent, have tiny toxic blade and reach an other last row talent. i feel like just having big shivs every 30 second isnt going to do much. Without IC or kingsbane what is the 20% + bleed dmg gonna do

[limber lion]

What do you mean?

[stiff ferry]

new talent sucks

[limber lion]

You can get 2 capstones

[stiff ferry]

you gotta skip tiny toxic blade tho

[limber lion]

You literally can do that

No you don't

It's literally the kingsbane build with ttb

like this

[mortal venture]

[limber lion]

Second shiv instead of improved poisons with ap

[stiff ferry]

yo

[limber lion]

I guess I'm a magician

[stiff ferry]

my dumbass was taking blindside

[limber lion]

You literally asked about Blindside

...

[stiff ferry]

i know

xD

[limber lion]

My man's tripping

[stiff ferry]

no need to be toxic

[mortal venture]

I mean..

[timber meadow]

with kb, puzzle box is just lined up with every exsanguinate ya?

[limber lion]

What

[timber meadow]

or i guess depending on fight timings, I could hold for 3rd deathmark?

[limber lion]

You hold em all for deathmark

[timber meadow]

kk

hold exsanguinate for deathmark as well

thats what you meant by all?

[limber lion]

Yes

[timber meadow]

oh wow okay ive been massively fucking up, for some reason I thought i was supposed to just line up exsang with er

and then just when it nattty lines up with deathmark

[feral mason]

whats the optimal point to use grieftorch in raid fight

just before deathmark ?

[rancid bane]

With the kb single target build, should i be using vanish for any reason? And if so when?

[raw raft]

if you don't have puzzle box sure, but if you do, then you should use puzzle box first

[storm onyx]

Generally you use direct dmg trinkets when they will not affect your rotation. Like off your burst phase, while waiting on energy regen etc.

Thats if they have a cast of course

[rigid rain]

!log

[timber meadow]

@limber lion okay im not totally crazy - maybe adjust the faq? 'Exsanguinate + Echoing Reprimand: Sync with each other on cooldown. You should aim to ER -> Rupture -> Exsanguinate whenever possible. If the timing naturally syncs with Deathmark, make sure to do the combo first, then Deathmark. DO NOT EXSANGUINATE DURING DEATHMARK, IT IS A LOSS OF ~10%. This is due to Exsanguinate reducing the duration of Deathmark, thus cutting the duplication effect early."

or im just interpreting it wrong

[heavy elk]

It was written at a time when ER and Exang were both 45 sec

Though probably does need updated

[limber lion]

Yeah that bit is outdated. It's sometimes hard to catch every single little thing when we change stuff around.

[timber meadow]

yeah no worries, wasn't tryna call anyone out, was more just doing it for my own sanity check as to why i thought the way i did

[dusk dew]

can someon help me ?

for raid is better kings ou dragon ?

[subtle tundra]

[gusty mirage]

gonna have to sim it yourself big dude

because for some people kingsbane > DTB and for others DTB > Kingsbane

it's entirely gear dependent

[dreamy elk]

@limber lion Sorry, this is probably repetitive but wanted to make sure I understood the last few statements you had made.

Assuming DTB with exsan build + puzzle box, you do the following:

Opener: send everything (Puzzle box/exsan/vanish/deathmark)

Instead of sending exsan and puzzle box again at 3 minute mark, you wait to 4 minute mark (when vanish + deathmark come back up) to send everything together just like opener? Does this also mean delaying ER by 15 seconds or so to sync it at the 4 minute mark?

And does this only apply if fight won't last longer than 6 minutes, or would you always sync and send box + exsan with the 2 minute cooldowns (even if it means holding up to a minute)?

[potent rune]

is Raszagath's trinket, Spiteful Storm, that bad? I sim 20ilv lower trinkets over 1800 dps higher. Feelsbad for a end boss trinket, usually they are good or am i wrong?

[dusk dew]

ok, ty

[gusty mirage]

either way the difference is probably small enough for you to play whichever you like more

I think the dif for me is like 1k dps?

[limber lion]

That is correct. You sync everything at 4 minutes, including ER, Puzzle Box, Exsang - everything that you can.

[ebon notch]

[dreamy elk]

Ok. It's worth always syncing on those 4 minute marks even if it means fight duration would theoretically allow you to put in one more box + exsan cast (edit: my time duration example was bad, but the concept applies)? That's interesting, but good to know.

Also makes it a bit easier actually.

[limber lion]

Well, technically holding Puzzle Box there and using it at 3 minutes and 6 minutes is probably a small gain, but it's a massive headache and probs not worth

Messing it up is a bigger loss than just hard-syncing

Syncing is the safe bet everytime

[dreamy elk]

That's a fair point. Much easier to just replicate the opener every 4 minutes then.

[stiff garden]

I've got a problem in m+ when it comes to higher keys. Im playing (or would like to continue playing) DTB, but it feels like im just falling behind insanely far when it comes to trash. I usually just garrote 3 targets out of stealth, crimson tempest and then spam FoK with envenom hoping for Poison Bomb procs. Is this the wrong way to go about it?

[patent estuary]

!log

[storm onyx]

If you are disregarding ruptures, yea its quite a bit “sure” dmg lost while fishing for PB procs. Even more so below 35%hp threshold

[stiff garden]

Should I just apply low cp ruptures all around? Or should I actually try and use the first 3-4 full finishers after CT for ruptures?

[storm onyx]

Also, CT is spam at 6+ targets

[stiff garden]

Oh, did not know that, thank you

[radiant seal]

Amp and deadly as DTB in dungeons or wat poison u guys running?

[storm onyx]

I tend to put a couple ruptures and then swap to CT spam if a big pack or envenom if there is something to be focused

[stiff garden]

Will go for that now

[storm onyx]

Also refresh ruptures at execute range to benefit from Zolchyk+4set

Instead of straight PB fishing

[stiff garden]

Yeah, really gotta get that 4 set now. Thanks for taking the time!

[storm onyx]

Cheers

[dreamy elk]

For ER, should I always be trying to envenom on the animacharged CP or is the rupture refresh more DPS (when possible + pandemic range)?

[limber lion]

It does not matter.

[nocturne current]

The Raszegasth KB shield pop build still favors bleed over poison right?

[dreamy elk]

Ok.

[outer cairn]

Good to know. I was using box and Exsang again at 3 mins but guess I can hold them both an extra minute to sync with DM and vanish

[dreamy elk]

Yeah, I've been trying it on a dummy with holding box + exsan for the deathmark/vanish refresh, and it feels much nicer. The only weird part is having to also delay ER by like 15s or so to have them all line up on that 4 minute mark, but it's fine.

[limber lion]

I mean assuming you have all bleeds and poisons up, you would want to use Envenom during the shield for more upfront damage. A 42s Rupture ain't gonna do much if the shield gets popped in 8s

[nocturne current]

Oh I meant in the talent tree.

[limber lion]

Oh ya, we don't really play the poison talents ever

[left loom]

sry guys if that question already poped up but where is puzzle box place in opener on DTB builds ?

[limber lion]

Before Exsang

Or before DM

Or during DM

doesn't really matter

[left loom]

so after rupture

[limber lion]

I would use after ER

So gar slice gar sbs rup er puzzle rup exs vanish gar exsang dm

[left loom]

cheers

[fading rover]

is it true that combat is just significantly better for M+?

i mean outlawe

[limber lion]

Yes

[vestal wren]

bot sub and outlaw seem a bit better than assassination

but if you liek assassinaiton, as long as you don't go for 24+ keys, play what you prefere

[fading rover]

but Sin still wins the single target/raid

so since i dont have a sword/axe/mace/fist to spec into outlaw for M+ runs how am i supposed to do a run in M+ to even get one?

am i going to have to pay to craft one?

[vestal wren]

you can do keys on sin to get a sword

or craft one

[fading rover]

i only need 1 in main hand though right?

[vestal wren]

as mentioned, if you don't want to do super high keys, assassination is perfectly fine

you only need one yes

[fading rover]

i thought being in Sin kept them off the loot pool

[shut owl]

set your loot spec to outlaw and they should drop

[fading rover]

ahhh

[shut owl]

or craft a weapon with your titan spark in another couple days

[tawny geyser]

What flasks are you guys using for raids?

[vestal wren]

tepid of vers

[bitter turret]

hey just a quick question, when do you peeps use puzzle box in your opener? 🙂

[weak isle]

!log

[modest gale]

what phial should i use in raid?

[pure moth]

Was just answered a few lines up. But its tepid of vers

[brazen nimbus]

anything to think about when doing my 2nd exssanguinate?

do i need to garrote /rup right before?

[timber meadow]

2% terros whipe with 8 people not using a dps pot and 5 people not using a healthstone or health pot the entire fight

feelsfuckingbad

[rigid rain]

!log

[outer cairn]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[undone eagle]

Guys which 2nd trinket do you prefer with the torch in m+? controlled or windscar whetstone

[limber lion]

Puzzle Box

:)

[undone eagle]

Never mentioned it xD since i got those 3 only

[limber lion]

You should probably get it

[undone eagle]

trying, but in this case which one u prefer?

[limber lion]

I would just play current technique

[undone eagle]

controll right?

[limber lion]

yes

[undone eagle]

thnx

[prisma cypress]

should i blow all my valor on upgrading my level 1 puzzle box

[limber lion]

No

You can get a better one

[prisma cypress]

that’s what i had thought, but…

[timber meadow]

!log

[vestal wren]

!box

[prisma monolith]

"Algeth'ar Puzzle Box usage:
Use Puzzle Box with Deathmark.

[paper wraith]

when doing m+ and ur in a pure ST situation like bosses, is it worth to spend combo points on crimson tempest or just enevenom spam

[marble hemlock]

basically no difference, except when KB is active, then you definitely wanna envenom 😄

[timber meadow]

is there any min/maxy stuf yall giga parsers are doing with pooling? I play under the assumption that I can pool/not pool, so long as I'm not overcapping energy as a result of pooling and the result will be identical but im curious if there are small exceptions to this idea or if this idea is wrong/bad logic

I suppose purposely starving before shiv windows could be an example of why you may not want to pool in order to double dip the value of thistle tea as noted in the faq

[north frost]

you get bonus damage from mutilate right after u envenom, so I try to pull energy before I envenom so im not starved.

[hollow python]

I have lariat/Weapon crafted what do I craft for the third item?

Just pick a slot thats the biggest upgrade?

[limber lion]

!puzzle

!box

[prisma monolith]

Algeth'ar Puzzle Box usage:
Use Puzzle Box with Deathmark.

[limber lion]

!puzzle

[prisma monolith]

Algeth'ar Puzzle Box usage:
Use Puzzle Box with Deathmark.

[strange python]

I haven't seen any real Sims or discussion on it yet, so I'm not positive where the math comes down on pooling. My suspicion is that it's too hard to force full uptime on EP, but the question of maxing alacrity or envenom uptime I'm not sure of. It feels like you can max both with only minor pooling

But that's more of a Cev question

[brazen zodiac]

hehe

[oblique tangle]

Dude my tier luck has been beyond trash this entire expac

I have ONE tier piece so far.

And I got it from my vault.

I'm going to cry.

[thorny pond]

Catalyst soon bb

[lethal mortar]

is it normal to dslice sim like 30% lower on ass than outlaw

[viscid spear]

I had two tier pieces in my vault week 2, but also Heroic Icon.
I've been sitting on 2pc for weeks

[oblique tangle]

I actually just pugged a norm for shits and giggles and we were doing Diurna and the group was like 4 Rogues 3 Warriors 2 Monks

And the RL was a mage and there was one person to contest tier gear with him

and he goes

"I will kick you the moment anyone fucks up you are all just here so I can get gear"

[brazen zodiac]

based

actually

[oblique tangle]

One of the tier pieces for him dropped. The other guy got it.

And then the mage kicked everyone from the group

We THOUGHT we were gonna do rasz

Nah.

Man was salty as FUCK

[brazen zodiac]

just join a guild be number 1 dps with 2pc then get funneled to 4pc ez

who was the mage lmao

[oblique tangle]

Can't remember his name

[brazen zodiac]

sounds like a pug rl i saw a few days ago who said something similar but everyone just left the second he said that lol

[oblique tangle]

I swapped characters after

[viscid spear]

I honestly don't see many Mages

[viscid spear]

Which piece was it though?

[oblique tangle]

Well we were on Diurna so the boots, I think

[oak sky]

What a moron he shouldve had nobody else on his token

[limber lion]

@timber meadow So this is hard forcing no-pooling on Envenom, so if you have the combo points for it, you would press Envenom. The only thing that barely makes a difference is trying to maximize EP uptime by pressing Envenom just before EP drops. For DTB the no-pooling was even worse, but just looking at it the tea-apl for dtb isn't really making sense with that part so that's probably messing it up.

[strange python]

Interesting. I would've guessed EP is the hardest to keep up and therefore irrelevant. Maybe maximizing what you do get is the point

[viscid spear]

Hmm, that's shoulders. Crit/Haste
Do you know how many pieces he already had? Or even what spec?

[ashen rover]

Lmao, yesterday did diurna HC there was a fuck ton of monks evokers rogue and warriors and no tier piece managed to drop but all the others dropped multiple times

[oblique tangle]

I didn't bother to check his gear, no

[viscid spear]

If he was that upset about losing Crit/Haste gear one of two things is true

1. He's Fire
2. Would've been 4pc

[oblique tangle]

3. He's a whiny pissbaby

entitlement complex e t c

[limber lion]

So Alacrity is tied to heavy RNG nowadays, so maximizing it's upkeep is close to impossible. Envenom in itself can pandemic, so uptime on that is very high already. EP is the only thing that you can actually control and when playing Amp Poison, it makes sense to slam down an EP buffed Envenom even at lower Amp stacks.

[viscid spear]

We killed H Brood and the staff dropped. We have 4 Evokers (I think).
Nothing for Mage so I just went to bed since it was end of raid anyway

[mortal venture]

So there's a few different builds for M+, If I don't have 4P should I avoid IC/KB?

[limber lion]

But yeah just adding a small check for Shiv for DTB increases all of these values by another 0.2%.

[strange python]

EP will inevitably drop off when you're low on tea, no?

[viscid spear]

Giving us Magi a bad name

[ashen rover]

Raid drop makes me depressed I only have copium vault now 🙏

[viscid spear]

Same brother

[timber meadow]

interesting - thanks for simming this

[prisma cypress]

i haven’t gotten a single drop from heroic the last 2 weeks

[viscid spear]

I used all my luck in the first two weeks, got both my BiS trinkets

[ashen rover]

Same but with 4piece

[oblique tangle]

Pugs won't even let me in to heroic with my 395 ilvl so I guess I have to just farm mythics or make my own??

[viscid spear]

I need that 4pc
Pretty much constant 8% buff

[prisma cypress]

maybe i can get 4pc in norman tonight

here’s hoping

normal not norman

[viscid spear]

Mother's not well

[ashen rover]

Go lfr

[prisma cypress]

i actually got to kurog in LFR yesterday but both tanks left and i didn’t have all day to wait around

not worth it with the catalyst in 2 weeks (?)

[weak horizon]

So uh reading whispyrs pin makes it seem like the new patch does not help sin

Ceverions pin seemed to indicate the opposite

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[prisma cypress]

whispyr is a negative nancy

[brazen zodiac]

no

[gusty mirage]

he's not talking about that

he's talking about the one under it

this one

[weak horizon]

Yeah

[gusty mirage]

YOU CANT HIDE FROM ME ANDREW

[oak sky]

My bad friend

[gusty mirage]

[weak horizon]

Whispyr does not seem like a negative nancy to me. He seems pretty realistic

[gusty mirage]

yeah I mean

[brazen zodiac]

@subtle tundra hia

[gusty mirage]

KB is just dead now

[weak horizon]

He was calling for peace when everyone was losing their shit on earlier nerfs

[brazen zodiac]

any tips for 22 HoV? :o

(sin) c:

[midnight dock]

wait why is kb ded :c

[oak sky]

But yeah i think cevs pin was mostly talking about the idea of the changes and whispyr is talking about the current power level

[gusty mirage]

because it'll share a node with dragon tempered

[weak horizon]

Read pin

[gusty mirage]

without any of the benefits it had before

of having zold 3/3 and blindside

[midnight dock]

wait zold is keeping its usual place?

[gusty mirage]

KB will likely be what you take if you need on demand damage for anything

like raz shields

yes

all they're doing is putting the new talent in KB's place and putting KB/DTB as a choice node

[weak horizon]

Looking at whispyrs current numbers our dungeon slice sim went down?

Hopefully it'll get better with apl tweaks and balancing?

[midnight dock]

wonder how that will affect pvp

[gusty mirage]

KB?

KB apl is fine

it just loses the bonus of 3/3 zold & blindside

which is what you took on that side of the tree

the lead up was huge for it

[weak horizon]

I was thinking of the ap + IC build

[subtle tundra]

hai

[gusty mirage]

I mean IC + AP will be comparable to DtB/IC overall

but

it just gets demolished in ST dam

[brazen zodiac]

hia sir ill just dm u instead :D

[weak plover]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[weak horizon]

True

[gusty mirage]

early sims ain't looking good

but I can see it being worth on a raging/fort week if your group is hurting for soothes

[weak horizon]

Does ic+dtb have better st than our current dtb?

Feels like maybe not with no bs and zold

[strange python]

#assassination-faq message

with this opener KB+exsa how do i play it if i want to use vanish during DM not before?

[magic vine]

ap seems like it'd get some pretty insane value lining it up with bleed cooldowns, but definitely a lot worse outside of those

[weak horizon]

Probably exsang right after sbs or the ER rupture

[hidden plinth]

did someone already did m+ sims for the changes in 10.0.5? how much is the different between IC + DTB and our current version?

[weak horizon]

And then vanish garrote once exsang-ed garrote falls off

[magic vine]

guess maybe depends on additive/multiplicative bonus question, which i actually don't know which wow tends to do now that i think about it

[digital zodiac]

Are people spending their valor upgrading puzzle box?

[brazen zodiac]

maybe....

[gusty mirage]

honestly, I have no idea

[brazen zodiac]

sup oxi

[gusty mirage]

hi friend

[timber meadow]

oh no, didn't realize kb was dead post patch

[storm onyx]

Wonder how Sepsis will interract with IG, also it would enable non vanish IC garrote silences

Nm, not possible to get it

[timber meadow]

with kb not being viableo take post-patch, does that effectively amount to a decent sized nerf for a lot of characters, or does dtb gain dps?

[magic vine]

dtb gains a lot of aoe dps because you can pick up ic (they dropped dashing from 3 points to 2), i'm not sure how the single target maths out from moving the blindside/zold points over to the right though

[pulsar relic]

is the max dps rotation helper at all good to learn assa

[winter gale]

I have 7% haste with 408 ilvl

Is that a bit low?

I know the answer is sim yo self :D, I just wanted to see whats roughly a good haste %

[storm onyx]

Depends on gear, there is a point it catches up to mastery, so yea you need to sim

[limber lion]

there is no breakpoints or ideal stat percentages.

[gusty mirage]

the rotation addon helpers can be a good starting point to get comfortable with a spec but the issue with them is people become reliant on them

so as long as you go in with the idea that you're using it to hammer home muscle memory you should be okay

ideally you'd just look at the rotation in the faq and hit the dummies until you get it

but people learn in dif ways

[storm onyx]

You could make a static text WA with the opener thats always on until you are comfortable.

[brazen zodiac]

deez keys so hard >.<

[unkempt burrow]

Maybe I’m late why is KB not viable?

[limber lion]

Because it's directly competing against DTB which is just better in every way

Previously KB was surrounded by such good nodes that routing to it gave it more value than the route to DTB. But now that it's a choice node, Kingsbane loses everytime.

No more Zoldyck or Blindside or whatever

[unkempt burrow]

Gotcha

dtb build will remain largely unchanged for ST purposes?

[pulsar relic]

even for aoe we play dtb?

lik m+

[near cradle]

if i already have flaring cowl and lariat is my next best item to craft a mh wep with no embellishment?

my current daggers are both 398

[restive spire]

does mastery fall out of favor for vers if playing dtb with no exsang

[limber lion]

Probably not, sim yourself

[limber lion]

Your first item should have been the dagger

So yeah it's due time

[limber lion]

Yes, IC + DTB most likely

[near cradle]

dang yo. i got lariat cause it was so hyped

[formal cliff]

If I'm killing like 1-2 packs before boss and deathmark comes off cd, should I hold it till boss or use on pack?

[slim hamlet]

Depends how long those 2 packs take

[cloud moat]

Tyran week youre probably melting those adds anyway

but if the packs take a long while to kill and contain a big / focus add, and you supposedly also got KB out of cd, I'd just pop them tbh

[formal cliff]

Sure

Guess it will come with knowledge

[cloud moat]

for example that flying cunt before Hyrja

[formal cliff]

On how long each trash fight takes

[formal cliff]

lol

Also what're you guys preferred WA or WAs

[royal lantern]

im using afenars cus im a lazy fuck that wants a full pack

[tame slate]

I use afenar's as well. I like the styling and how things are typically structured

[formal cliff]

Afenar it is then

Last question I promise, what happened to Ryfie? Used to watch him shadowlands s1

[ebon notch]

retired for irl

[formal cliff]

Tragic

[magic vine]

i like using devlin's rogue wa, if you want a slightly different default format

[lavish isle]

is this correct build for raid ?

[unique laurel]

!logs

[pulsar relic]

do i just grab the builds from #assassination-faq

i dont see a IC + DTB for aoe

[magic vine]

there isn't one until the patch

because dashing is 3 points right now you can't get dtb and ic

[pulsar relic]

gotcha

what do we play till then?

[hidden dirge]

where can you see thosw upcoming changes? Nothing assa related on wowhead upcoming class tuning.

[magic vine]

use a build from faq that works for your gear and content

[oak sky]

Ptr patch notes

[hidden dirge]

thx alot kind sir

[pulsar relic]

whens patch if we know

[gusty mirage]

depends on how long the PTR cycle is

with 10.0.5 on ptr

prolly a month if I had to guess

[unreal kayak]

due to loss of kingsbane for m+ how much is our dungeon boss st gonna suffer

[gusty mirage]

you make up for it with dragon tempered

[strange python]

yes i know when to use it but I am asking if I should after DM->Mutilate to charged CP or double mutilate to 5+ -> envenom->KB->Shiv+Tea->...

[dense mirage]

could someone give me a hand please, for the M+ DTB opener, do i use those 3 garrotes on the same target or are they on 3 different targets?

[shut owl]

different targets ideally

you want as many garrotes out as you can have

[dense mirage]

thank you very much

[untold mortar]

quick question: is the two target sim in fuu's sheet up to date?

[pure moth]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[pure moth]

Yes the change log says update jan 8

[untold mortar]

wondering why take the fok talent, when the sim doesnt even use fok once. prolly the second shiv better i guess?

[hollow river]

iirc it gets you down the path by using 1 less point on something else

[winter gale]

Are we good PI target?

[untold mortar]

i dont think so, shiv is in same row

or what do you mean

[hollow river]

which build are you talking about exactly?

[untold mortar]

https://gyazo.com/c3818c98a1062ca737658b1cb9328453

would change "thrown precision" for "lightweight shiv"

[hollow river]

the dtb m+ build?

[untold mortar]

no the "top build two targets"

https://gyazo.com/398256b7398e91f0f63139f9f1d2c8df

[mortal venture]

Idk if I like dtb or kb M+ build tbh lol

[hollow river]

mmm not sure kinda outside my realm of knowledge atm

[untold mortar]

ah np, shiv just sims better for me like 400 dps or so. but i thought maybe there is a reason for the fok

[magic vine]

seems like a legit change as long as you know the fight will never reach 3 targets

[outer cairn]

KB/IC gets a lot of value with big pulls (Nok Offensive) or when tanks start getting better at chain pulling where packs aren't inherently to big so easier to pull some together (Court) but also people have to live and kick. DtB just requires a bit of set up no matter what, especially on those big packs where with IC you can just almost fire and forget with garrote and rupture

[untold mortar]

kurog progression, there are some more adds but yea i like to pump boss and only perma cleave second add

[empty ravine]

since im still gearing up fairly fast

when you thinkk is an understandable ilvl for my weaps that i should start putting enchants on them

[untold mortar]

400

[empty ravine]

oh okay then

:l

[shut owl]

you can slap some cheap enchants on stuff for sure though

[empty ravine]

also if my ilvl is like 366 should i just try grinding mythics

i missed 3 fucking vaults now

FFUCK

[shut owl]

daily rare mob farming should also get you some upgrades till 380ish

[empty ravine]

i bought a few conquest

items

my equipment priority is like weaps > trinkets > rings > everythingelse

[magic vine]

you can upgrade the storm dagger to 385

[empty ravine]

i did :l

you have to have mh and oh daggers for sin to work right?

[magic vine]

if you want to zone out for a bit you can get a 389 ring from cobalt assembly rep

[empty ravine]

sounds boring af

[shut owl]

most gear grinding is

[magic vine]

yea its pretty boring but i just threw on a podcast when i was sort of sleepy

[empty ravine]

but that sounds like annoyingly boring

[magic vine]

you can get two pvp rings with like a single weeks worth of weekly quests, like 366 and 382

[empty ravine]

honestly ive played wow long enough to know that you defeat the purpose of playing the game in general if you find yourself not having fun and are just doing chorse

although i understand the idea of like grinding something out to get what you want, but just dont go overboard

[magic vine]

its just an option to get something thats not random or tied to finding a group is all

[empty ravine]

trutru

[magic vine]

thats why i also mentioned the storm stuff, because while thats kind of boring too its (almost) no rng and you can just do it. either boosting your ilvl or filling gaps you're getting unlucky with

[empty ravine]

so which sin spec is best like in general for st spank and tank vs m+ dungeon slicce?

[magic vine]

if you prefer to just slam out mythics that works too, just a matter of what a given person finds more enjoyable

[empty ravine]

i already read up on the rogue guide but i just wanted to know what others seem to be working for them

[sand elm]

im running dtb in raid and tyrannical weeks and kb/ic in fortified

untill we get 10.0.5 at least

[topaz valley]

Is it live on Wednesday?

[sand elm]

i wish, probably end of jan/start of feb is my guess

[desert ether]

Just how important is Haste this expansion?? Cause when I am under 10% I feel energy starved like hell. but then again I may be playing rogie all wrong. Not sure. have looked at many guides to see and get rotation. I have thistle tea but still I feel I am energy starved if my haste is real low.

[sand elm]

u get it from time to time depending how lucky u are with energy back from dashing

[desert ether]

wait..explain

I don't even use that talent 😦

I just assume you mean dashing soundrel

[teal bloom]

I feel like assa isn't that energy starved now, in 9.0 you waited for energy so much

[desert ether]

Then again I may be using the wrong talents

[desert ether]

Then please tell me what I am doing wrong. I can use all advice that is given.