assassination

[night delta]

though no seal fate in aoe

[balmy condor]

I just felt

[night delta]

is actually very cursed

[balmy condor]

a great disturbance

[magic vine]

fill that upper tree in

[slim hamlet]

smh

[thorn crater]

@slim hamlet i think you have a missed opportunity on the class tree

here you go

[slim hamlet]

wdym just spam your aoe generater 6 times and you can use a single finisher

[slim hamlet]

good design

[balmy condor]

new rogues that haven't played long enough to know double dance

[thorn crater]

gotta get that acrobatic @slim hamlet

[shut owl]

sorry

[night delta]

you're right

[shut owl]

current double dance?

[slim hamlet]

Well I tried making mine cursed but not troll

smh

[oak sky]

Wait what

[night delta]

it's a bleed build anyway

[next edge]

one dance feels so good

[night delta]

poison damage is nothing

[balmy condor]

what if I told you that we used to play with 3 dance charges

[slim hamlet]

HUH

3 DANCES

[shut owl]

stop it I'm already dead

[slim hamlet]

but why

[mystic gate]

[teal bloom]

pepeD

[night delta]

Dance, dance 'till you're dead

[slim hamlet]

You're in dance 50% of the time with just 1

[oak sky]

But 2 lets you do the symbols thing

[slim hamlet]

wtf do you need 3 for

[night delta]

is actually a sub meme ?

[thorn crater]

wym you had no acrobatic thats troll af

[balmy condor]

because it used to be 2 charges baseline, with dark shadow increasing the damage, and enveloping giving an extra charge

and then they took away 1 charge baseline

[slim hamlet]

Had to sacrifice for cold blood

[balmy condor]

and dark shadow was instantly a dead talent

[slim hamlet]

Started with AS

[next edge]

Acrobatic is REALLY good

[thorn crater]

thats why i fixed it for you

[next edge]

but also you can play without it

[mystic gate]

more damage better life

[slim hamlet]

Lambda

Its a meme

[mystic gate]

[slim hamlet]

We are not actually dumb

Trust

[next edge]

?

you are

[slim hamlet]

wtf

[shut owl]

how can I reach over my mark-spreading allies without AS though?

[slim hamlet]

How do I report a chatter in this discord?

[night delta]

I was surprised at the number of occasions where I could just stay off and keep dps-ing like nothing else mattered

[balmy condor]

how can I learn to trust again

[night delta]

while other melee suffered downtime

[slim hamlet]

You don't

you just slip away from reality

Forever

Everything is a lie

[thorn crater]

just take the L on trust

its ok

[slim hamlet]

The world is a big dark place

[balmy condor]

AYO POPEYES I SAID NO PICKLES

[next edge]

People will be even madger now

to pick Kb or DTB

monkaW

[slim hamlet]

But

you already did that

huh

[shut owl]

convince your raid lead that the DH is the ideal person for second egg on diurna, then cackle as you get full uptime

[balmy condor]

aight I got 50 minutes until work, what do you guys want me to sim and it can't be the new capstone cause that's not in sims yet

[next edge]

So its basically more bindings

ot already bloated class

Sasdge

[next edge]

Sim these nutz

[mystic gate]

[balmy condor]

need a supercomputer for that, don't have one

[slim hamlet]

This build but 1 point in IP instead of AP

[balmy condor]

any better ideas

[slim hamlet]

Why you do this

[balmy condor]

new rule, your build must have seal fate

[slim hamlet]

alright

give me 1 minute

[next edge]

gota learn 132494 new bindings for 10.0.5 thanks blizzard

[storm forum]

How about that, but you get seal fate instead of cold blood?

[balmy condor]

that I'll sim

[shut owl]

I just wanted to say I love y'all. my wife keeps hearing me giggling and every time she asks wtf is wrong with me I can only respond "Its just the rogue discord"

[tawdry flare]

is it safe in here

[storm forum]

It's not safe anywhere

[teal bloom]

Imagine if no seal of fate and you had no cct

[night delta]

hahem, Rogue discord

[thorn crater]

lmfao

[shut owl]

please dont

[tawdry flare]

shit

[teal bloom]

cttc

[slim hamlet]

Didnt specify how many points in seal fate

[balmy condor]

aight good loophole, dslice yes?

[night delta]

that's... that's me, leaving shit half done

[slim hamlet]

Yep

And patchwerk why not

[thorn crater]

just run the DTB/ KB IC build if u have it stored

[shut owl]

where is your IB though? gotta keep that kidney shot in rotation

[thorn crater]

with KB replacing DTB on its slot

[slim hamlet]

Was thinking about it

But I dont think its that good in pve

🙂

[shut owl]

its an extra bleed, therefore it cant be bad

[balmy condor]

you have a point available on the class tree

[slim hamlet]

Smart

[balmy condor]

[slim hamlet]

And then u can exsang and dm it

[balmy condor]

oh

nvm

[shut owl]

I'm gonna keep telling myself as I take CT into single target when 10.0.5 hits

[slim hamlet]

lol

[balmy condor]

missed the sprint

[slim hamlet]

noob

[night delta]

I thought you didn't take deathmark

Objection !

[slim hamlet]

oh shit

ehm

just exsang

[shut owl]

exsang a 6 second bleed. pog

[slim hamlet]

I am hyped to see if this sims over 40k dungeon slice

[noble light]

which of the two m+ builds is recommended? want to give assa a try in m+ 🙂

[thorn crater]

depending on gear

it will be

prolly around 48ish

[storm forum]

I personally recommend the IC/Kingsbane build cause I like it

[thorn crater]

the real interesting part would be what the apl is gonna look like

[slim hamlet]

Both builds are great, I prefer IC+KB when playing sin, you should give both a couple of tries

[flint pond]

I'm assuming an improved garrote in pandemic will get extended when you vanish garrote again?

[winter hawk]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[slim hamlet]

Wonder if it does ambushes or imp garrote spam in sd+subter

[royal lantern]

plottwist" she thinks its real criminals and reported you to the police allready

[thorn crater]

ambush

100%

10000%

[noble light]

thanks for the answers 🙂

[thorn crater]

apl loves ambush

[slim hamlet]

I meant the other way around, imp garr or ambush spam

oh well

Oh shit I even put sepsis on there

this is gonna be wild

[thorn crater]

HO sin build

[royal lantern]

bepsis

[mystic gate]

i want tiny toxic

[thorn crater]

spam ambush

[shut owl]

and its this kinda content that keeps me coming back. That and watching whispyr dealing with dinks like myself ofc

[thorn crater]

2am and waiting for the sim results before i go to bed

[tawdry flare]

I've always wanted to play Sin in M+ and these changes look super fun

[slim hamlet]

"dink"

[thorn crater]

cant wait

[royal lantern]

watching whisp dancing betteen the thin line of pure insanity, depression, lack of sleep, horny and beeing helpfull is the best thing

[slim hamlet]

1:20 here can't wait

Hyped for this sim release

Hope they put it in pins

[thorn crater]

my guy thats not a line, thats half a kilo

[tawdry flare]

Whispyr is a

[slim hamlet]

I like to imagine the reason it is taking a bit for Whispyr is because it somehow sims higher than ic+kb and I cracked the code 🙂

Trying to find out wtf is going on

[thorn crater]

suuuurely

[slim hamlet]

Yep

Actually 100%

[thorn crater]

lets not forget that on the current existign sim KB is under zoldyck

[slim hamlet]

yea?

[shut owl]

new whispyr spreadsheet gonna have an asterisk for your build

[thorn crater]

the whole SD class has been done before though not as well as you did it to be sure

[slim hamlet]

What would this build be called

SDCBICSepsis

[thorn crater]

asylum build

[slim hamlet]

oh

ok

[balmy condor]

unplayable as always queen

[slim hamlet]

WTF

THATS HUGE

HOLY

[shut owl]

grats

[slim hamlet]

Thought it would be at least 30k lower

[thorn crater]

bro

it CANT be

[slim hamlet]

my god

[thorn crater]

lower than 30k

[slim hamlet]

I am insane

[thorn crater]

what u on about

u can press mutilate envenom and get more

lmfao

[balmy condor]

I mean it is 30k lower, compared to the top profile

[shut owl]

oh I bet we could make a sub-30 build

[slim hamlet]

😦

U are all such fucking bullies man

Shattering my tc dreams

[slim hamlet]

Yeah this is my next goal

Give me a couple minutes

[shut owl]

take every single utility node, take nothing that synergizes, no capstones from class tree

TTB but no second shiv

[thorn crater]

nono

[shut owl]

skip CT ofc

[thorn crater]

he has to take shadow dance

[balmy condor]

crisp 40% loss in single target

[shut owl]

nonono. take everything up to it, but skip SD

[thorn crater]

48k

I WAS RIGHT

AHAHAHAA

48k i mean

[slim hamlet]

Still more dps than I do on terros

🙂

[slim hamlet]

Let me cook

Already did that

[shut owl]

dammit

[slim hamlet]

youre years behind in training

[teal bloom]

worth to take the single target loss for huge 68k dungeonslice

[shut owl]

min-minning is hard

[slim hamlet]

[thorn crater]

have you ran a dungoen slice DTB IC/KB IC profile?

new KB though

[shut owl]

68k is better than I do in dungeons most of the time; its gotta be good

[balmy condor]

no I can probably get that rolling though

[thorn crater]

dont forget that manic is part of that most likely and on its own it should be like a couple of mill

if u wanna see cursed

run sims with my trinkets

spiteful normal and horn 392

[night delta]

I'd be curious about this, Council fight (patchwerk 4 targets, 5 minutes)

[teal bloom]

tea is bad on council because you are max energy all the time

[junior aurora]

who let him cook

[slim hamlet]

min-minning is actually harder than expected

[junior aurora]

get that person out of the kitchen

[slim hamlet]

Had to take dm

[thorn crater]

has to have seal fate

[slim hamlet]

there was no other choice

[slim hamlet]

Can you confirm @balmy condor is seal fate required in min-minning?

[balmy condor]

at this point you can do what you want

[slim hamlet]

alright

u gonna sim it or am I?

dont know how to with bis items tho

[thorn crater]

im actually crying

of laughter

the longer i look at this build

lmfao

[teal bloom]

Chad all utility taker build

[night delta]

utility god

[slim hamlet]

So can I get orange name yet or what?

[thorn crater]

i havent laughed that much in a good while

god bless you man

[slim hamlet]

You think this is all a joke?

HUH PUNK

[thorn crater]

btw i have fonud your true calling

ure a warlock main through and through

[slim hamlet]

Tell me about it

[thorn crater]

pick anything and deal dmg

[slim hamlet]

I mained warlock in sofo 🙂

[thorn crater]

i think they need another TC crying aobut how bad their spec and dmg is

[slim hamlet]

So where do I sign up as wowhead writer?

[thorn crater]

also u cant take wound poison talent

baseline deadly

gotta put it elsewhere

[slim hamlet]

what

[bitter compass]

If you already have Improved Garrote + Rupture active on the tgt and you Deathmark, it is duplicating those bleeds. If you Garrote again, is it replacing it with a regular Garrote??

[night delta]

correct

[slim hamlet]

It does indeed

[night delta]

replaces both even

[slim hamlet]

It updates dynamically afaik

[bitter compass]

Ok, so I have been royally messing up by deathmarking and then re-applying garrote and rupture? What if neither were empowered before?

[thorn crater]

@slim hamlet wh u think of this?

[slim hamlet]

If none of them is empowered before you can just slam new dots

There would be no difference

[slim hamlet]

Pretty good

Was thinking about marked for death

[thorn crater]

this is ST btw

[slim hamlet]

Decided not to take it, it might be too op

[thorn crater]

obvi

[slim hamlet]

We gotta sandbag you know

[thorn crater]

exaaaactly

[slim hamlet]

What really makes me act up is the no cheat death

That shit is cracked

well done

[thorn crater]

i know right

thanks

[balmy condor]

baseline is current council build

[slim hamlet]

Crisp

[night delta]

ayoo nice

[slim hamlet]

Meanwhile SS+BP+SS+BP = 180k+

[night delta]

now the one with AP could be a bit higher, but that'll wait for its API

[green harbor]

bruh this spec is almost as fast an enhancement now

[slim hamlet]

I am actually suprised we arent getting nerfed next reset

That shit is wild to me

for raids that is

[night delta]

I mean if we were, then one for arcane mage for example would also be warranted

[balmy condor]

grammar nazi stickler time, API is for code interfacing, you're looking for "implementation" in sims, or the thing you were trying to say was APL, which is action priority list, which is the actual thing that says "cast this when this". The APL part is fairly straight forward, but the spell data isn't implemented, so nothing to be done

[brazen nimbus]

is it mastery or crit proc we want from lariat?

[night delta]

alright gotcha

learning is fun

[balmy condor]

both are fine and depend on your current gear

the difference doesn't really matter, just pick a gem you think looks cool

as long as it doesn't have vers, you're good to go

[night delta]

still sad we can't fish for main stat proc with a diamond

[tawny barn]

Can you run that for dungeon slice ?

[dire flame]

Sorry the sims said vers gems! Robots not wrong!

[night delta]

whenever I look at my vers I am shocked (shocked I say !) at how much I have, then I remember the flask and druid buff

[keen dove]

Could anyone help me get my rogue playing more efficiently? Itlvl 393 and I feel like I've exhausted all the resources to read. My logs are terrible

[balmy condor]

sure

[slim hamlet]

U did this yet whispyr?

[night delta]

Are you a cake ?

because you sound very baked

[balmy condor]

are you trying to minimize damage?

[sand elm]

[night delta]

max-minning yes

[vapid sierra]

how do you guys effectively gear both sin and outlaw? just dagger craft for sin mainahnd and outlaw offhand and then hoard any trinkets that works with either or?

[balmy condor]

and if yes, why are you running blindside, deathmark, and zold

[balmy condor]

(should be noted that our best dungeonslice atm is 97k, so these builds are real bad)

[oblique wasp]

Send us logs and we will investigate them

[vapid sierra]

wait our best dslice sims are 80k?

[keen dove]

I used Simcraft/raidbots to get weights and I'm at 40% mastery 29% crit

[dire flame]

[balmy condor]

I hate you

[slim hamlet]

new thing called min-minning

we just made it up

[vapid sierra]

ROFL

[slim hamlet]

its pretty good

[vapid sierra]

what did i do

[balmy condor]

you did the outlaw rogue thing

and didn't fucking read shit

[slim hamlet]

Actually just decided to completely ignore the message

KEKW

[vapid sierra]

oopsies

[night delta]

TL;DR, too busy gambling

[oblique wasp]

I would start with looking at your crit, 29% seems low to me

[vapid sierra]

outlaw i can buttonmash and do respectable dps

sin i actually gotta pay attention

[keen dove]

What is a good balance to have?

[dire flame]

Just press shiv and ur already ahead of the pack

[balmy condor]

@thorn crater I'm working on your thing I messed up an import I think

[plain flax]

what we think of the changes guys ?

[oblique wasp]

hard to say without data, can you send me log that you feel troubled about? I can compare to my logs and the knowledge passed on here and on guides

[thorn crater]

no need to even do it if u dont have time we will find out soon enough

[slim hamlet]

So Whispyr?

It's calling for you

[balmy condor]

I got the talents figured out but I think I’m messing up something or another cause it’s under simming by quite a bit

Trying to figure out why the baseline cratered

[thorn crater]

or it could be the lack of zoldyck?

i assume ure tlaking aobut kb not DTB

[keen dove]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BFrL8x3wRdQaK6kh#fight=32&type=damage-done&source=163

[balmy condor]

No I mean like current kb/ic in top gear is 97, but then I advanced sim it in a talent stack and it’s saying 72

[night delta]

sounds like something broke

[thorn crater]

does that mean it runs current kb/ic vs future kb/ic?

sorry i dont understand 😛

also 3am here and i normally sleep at 12

[keen dove]

This is really one of the better ones. This log was taken with 35%ish crit

[night delta]

it means ptr sims are somehow fucky

same talents, very much lower dps for no reason

[royal lantern]

you put 2 points in find weakness, and ignored deadend nerves

are you even min-mining bro????

[night delta]

can't not dps if you're not dead

https://tenor.com/view/smart-thinking-thoughts-think-ponder-gif-7713620

[slim hamlet]

wtf is deadend nerves

SO CLOSE MAN

[royal lantern]

the "you take 3% or shit like that less physical dmg" talent

[slim hamlet]

How can I get the last 900dps down

[slim hamlet]

I did

[slim hamlet]

Any ideas?

[cloud moat]

Show tree

[limber lion]

Is that for st or

[slim hamlet]

dungeonslice

[oblique wasp]

First tip for the time being switch daggers - you have main hand below off hand, I did that too before I got equal ILVL on the other one compared to the crafter molten knife

[slim hamlet]

Wish I could get rid of improved garr

Think that is one of the better ones

[oak sky]

No pk???

[keen dove]

I just got the Primal Molten Shortblade at 399

[cloud moat]

Probably switch some points from execute passive into reaching the agi talent above IC

[slim hamlet]

wtf is pk

[oak sky]

The crit fok talent

It got renamed

[keen dove]

switched it to mainhand

[slim hamlet]

its dungeon slice tho

[oak sky]

Oh

[cloud moat]

Try it out, you'll never know

[oak sky]

Zold is pretty good in dslice tbh

Dashing is probably worse

But pb with no ct is pretty good

[night delta]

I think dumping points into agi from rupture is alright, because with such low energy and cp you won't be putting up many ruptures to begin with

[slim hamlet]

Yeah dont wanna get pb

So how many points u want in scent of blood

and from where

[oak sky]

Oh you went vw yeah this build is gonna do like 20k

[cloud moat]

All from execute into it

[oblique wasp]

Second thing | see - try to have bigger uptime on garrote and rupture, even more so that you took Kingsbane ST where there is bigger focus on garrote

[oak sky]

The 1 dot you can get up

[cloud moat]

It's 3 point talent ain't it

[slim hamlet]

y

alright lets see

old was 31k with my gear

410 ilvl

Lets see

[junior aurora]

i see you've found the build of every rogue in my keys

[slim hamlet]

OH MY LORD

We did it

[cloud moat]

[slim hamlet]

Huge

Now for ST

[night delta]

well, keep just that

[slim hamlet]

but

Its got exsang and dm

surely thats gotta go

[night delta]

dump into aoe yeah

[oblique wasp]

third item - I am wondering if we could do something about Shiv uptime, you casted 6 times and I see potential for at least 10 shivs - even more so with Kingsbane build where you can use both charges to lubricate the kingsbane into more DMG, one right after KB and one for the last 7 seconds of KB

to give you example - my log lasted 30 seconds more, and I managed 12 shivs total

[slim hamlet]

Something like this?

dont know what to do about dm

[balmy condor]

Put it into ct

[slim hamlet]

Think we gotta keep it

Yeah but then I have 2 extra points

[balmy condor]

Exsang lethal

[night delta]

amp poison into ct

[vapid sierra]

could you take a look at my log?

[slim hamlet]

aight lets see

[vapid sierra]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bzkX7mWQdjyTZLRK#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=2

[short token]

Are there any good recommended videos detailing the spec/rotation for raids? I saw one by dalaran but it wasn’t too in depth

[slim hamlet]

Oh my god

It's beautiful

[short token]

I know thr rotation can be extremely punishing

[balmy condor]

There are not

[short token]

Damn

[balmy condor]

Maintain all your bleeds, dump cp with envenom, Hit cooldowns on cooldown

Gg you played sin

[slim hamlet]

This disc is rly good at explaining and helping tho 🙂

[vapid sierra]

cooldown order is whats fucking me up

[short token]

Yeah but what if I hit exsang after dearhmark?

[balmy condor]

Don’t play exsang

Problem solved

[short token]

Exsang is out?

[balmy condor]

It is a talent you can choose to not take

[slim hamlet]

if u have it and fuck up its worse than not having it

By quite a lot

[short token]

Yeah 10% right

[balmy condor]

If you’re shit at the game, play easier talents and take a 1.5% loss

Now you can be shit at the game and play an easy version

[short token]

Ok is shiv on CD but hold,for deathmark?

[balmy condor]

While still doing giga damage

[keen dove]

in a 4 minute 5 i have 3 KB, i use 2 of them directly after KB equating to 6. when is a good time to use the others shiv to make sure i have them ready for KB?

[vapid sierra]

so its always (for when cds lineup) er>rupture>exsan>deathmark>vanish>garrote?

[royal lantern]

yes, thats it more or less, you use it on cd, but watch out that you have 1 charge for DM

[balmy condor]

No because that would overwrite the exsang’d garrote

[royal lantern]

if you have the double shiv talent, it just means "leave 1 stack alone, and use the 2nd charge to prevent capping"

[balmy condor]

You hold both charges for KB always

[slim hamlet]

Facts, I finally reached 50% parse in lfr after taking easy talents 🙂

[vapid sierra]

what would the order be then?

[balmy condor]

Just vanish gar before the exsang

Idk

[hollow river]

are we actually simming the worst possible talent builds right now?

[balmy condor]

I’m a big fan of “if you don’t know how it works, don’t play it”

[slim hamlet]

🙂

[balmy condor]

Exsang is confusing

[violet jackal]

how does one learn if that do that

[balmy condor]

If you don’t understand why exsang->gar is bad

Maybe just don’t play it

[cloud moat]

How was it

[hollow river]

[slim hamlet]

Pretty good

[night delta]

min mining

deserves an honorable mention in the next class guides imo

[slim hamlet]

Think I deserve the orange color now

Thank you very much

[oblique wasp]

I go by following rule - opener is set more or less in stone as set by Whispyr - that consumes one shiv

Then rotationally is following - if I have 2 shivs, I use one ASAP
The second shiv - I look at my CDs - it has 25 sec recharge and so if I have KB cooldown at less than 23 seconds (because you have 1 sec global), I hold the second shiv for KB, if over, I use it ASAP

[queen spade]

Came here to compare channels to outlaw, its on fire and youre simming worst builds

[oblique wasp]

yeah sure but tomorrow I will be going to bed soon

[keen dove]

I read your guide and that's been the plan. I just tried to re-weight my stats. wound up with 40% mastery and 29% crit on Itlvl 393. see any issue with that?

[vapid sierra]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bzkX7mWQdjyTZLRK#fight=last&source=2&type=damage-done

all good

[tawny barn]

Finally outlaw aoe getting nerfed

[vapid sierra]

its like 1/2%

its nothing]

[keen dove]

Understand that then

[slim hamlet]

Depends fully on dung right?

[balmy condor]

Reading a guide that explains it? Hitting a dummy and finding it out for themselves? There’s a billion resources out there that tell you what abilities do and how to use them. Having issues is fine, but if you’re overwriting exang’d bleeds that’s just a foundational lack of understand about the spec

[vapid sierra]

yeah and proc chain

[slim hamlet]

I prefer just doing it in raid and sucking ass until it finally works and I do big dam

[balmy condor]

Stats don’t matter, stop running stat weights they’re inaccurate. Just top gear yourself every time you get an upgrade, run a droptimizer at the start of the week to check before raid

[slim hamlet]

34% crit

[hot chasm]

I love the upcoming assa changes

[shut owl]

we've done it! woot!

[slim hamlet]

Actually balling

[shut owl]

they said it couldnt be done

so when are you turning orange

[slim hamlet]

They didn't know our names at that time

Times has changed

[slim hamlet]

Pretty sure it should be done before next reset

Not sure when tho

[outer cairn]

Eh?

[slim hamlet]

Bruh

Not shot you're late again

[hot chasm]

[outer cairn]

Clearly. What did I miss?

[hot chasm]

sticky/pins

[slim hamlet]

gigantic changes

U gonna be hype

[outer cairn]

Oh holy fuck. When I read KB moved I was like DtB and KB 🤞🏻

[slim hamlet]

if u enjoy m+ that is

[slim hamlet]

Feel like that would be giga broken

[outer cairn]

So?

[slim hamlet]

xd

[outer cairn]

Fuck em

[slim hamlet]

true and also real

[rocky ruin]

sub or sin for raz? depends on add dps?

[slim hamlet]

sin for pure boss dmg prob

sub to survive intermission

Is what I could gather

well

Intermission isnt a problem until mythic I suppose

[balmy condor]

Yeh

Sub on heroic is just pad honestly

[outer cairn]

To bad I will be gone on this stupid trip and won’t be able to play the changes till I get back

[balmy condor]

Neither one of the intermissions mattered at all

[slim hamlet]

changes is first in 10.0.5

[outer cairn]

Whenever that is

[slim hamlet]

Just means we can be 100% sin rogue enjoyers in 10.1

[rocky ruin]

fair, idc about my parse/dps meters rn, just want this boss dead, we are in a race for realm first H raz kill rn

[slim hamlet]

Without feeling like we are gimping by not playing sub/outlul in m+

[outer cairn]

Can’t wait to see how our talent builds change. Again.

[slim hamlet]

And we surely lose exsang in 10.1

hehe

[balmy condor]

Good luck

[undone glen]

[rocky ruin]

<3

[slim hamlet]

My mans name is "Gamble" but isnt an outlaw player

smh

[outer cairn]

But buffed 20% bleed dmg on top of what shiv already does probably make up for a 3min CD

[patent harbor]

I am here to snoop on your patchnotes

[undone glen]

Look I've had the name a long time

Can't change it now

[slim hamlet]

Had mine for a long time too

Now im sin one trick apparently

no excuses

[trim zinc]

and now ur a sin one trick with sub color and kir icon hmmmm

[slim hamlet]

so?

Don't see an issue

[hot chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/world-cup-change-teams-change-jerseys-change-shirts-sell-out-gif-12045088

[slim hamlet]

I can never look like a noob when asking questions in any channels

Part of them all

[patent harbor]

Potentially picking up a second spec, how hard is the debuff management?

[outer cairn]

I’m excited to see how the new double capstones play. Also need@to double check builds. DtB showing as highest sim, but think kb still higher for me

[cloud moat]

ST very easy

[weak plover]

DTB Very easy. Boring actually.

[patent harbor]

for 3/4 target I guess you're heavily reliant on good nameplates

[oblique jackal]

Interesting to see the sepsis buff

[royal lantern]

become a tab target god

[patent harbor]

So stressful though lol

at least it was on affliction

[hot chasm]

SS+BP+ST is easier sure

[outer cairn]

@balmy condor just noticed when I clicked the KB Bleed + Exsang build, the link took me to the top DtB build

[balmy condor]

When you clicked which link?

[outer cairn]

he's secretly just trying to get us all to play dtb

[outer cairn]

si

[balmy condor]

No hablo

[outer cairn]

yes

oui

hai

ja

[balmy condor]

That’s not an answer to my question

[outer cairn]

oh you said which link

When I clicked the KB Bleed + Exsang link it took me to the DtB Bleed + Exsang link

under top gear

[balmy condor]

Okay

You realize all the top gear links are the same

Because they’re comparing

[outer cairn]

now that i've scrolled down.....yes

[balmy condor]

Nice okay

[rocky ruin]

in full ST situation, do i save Shiv charges for Echoing reprimand, assuming i am not gonna cap charges, running DTB

2 set

[outer cairn]

no. you shiv after DM, then shiv again after the first expires then you shiv on CD. Save a shiv for your next DM

[rocky ruin]

save the shiv for the double poison from DM right?

[outer cairn]

yeah. and when ap comes out, your bleed dmg will get buffed by 20% as well

[rocky ruin]

ap?

[balmy condor]

New capstone

[rocky ruin]

ooh is it listed somehwere to say what it does

[balmy condor]

The pins

Front page of wowhead

[rocky ruin]

ty

[balmy condor]

Probably mmo champ and icyveins as well if you prefer those

[rocky ruin]

so im reading these buffs, they see really really OP

so we can take DTB and kingsbane soon?

10.0.5*

[grizzled jay]

[spice spire]

They’ll be on the same choice node so no

(Think sbs and sepsis)

[rocky ruin]

ah

[novel arrow]

When is 10.5 ?

Anyone know

[loud brook]

I pray one day we get echoing blades back

also that exsang gets old yellered

[lament warren]

?

say it to my face

[bitter compass]

Are we taking Exanguinate for KB/IC build for M+?

[rocky ruin]

i dont really get why u wouldnt wanna save it for echoing as well, 20% more damage on a 7 combo point envenoms and normal damage seems better than 20% on ur normal damage

[nocturne current]

Nah, Master Assassin I would say, mostly

[static glacier]

It’s not exclusive, you can line up shiv with reprimand if you want. I doubt the gain is noticeable but technically it is a gain

[raven light]

is it a tooltip error that ingame my dashing scoundrel says it only restores 1 energy?

[loud brook]

[young flicker]

anyone around to checkout some a raid log to see what I could do to improve? read all the sticky's but seems like there are still some minor things that I could tweak to improve

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NtaqgcWm8QXjFR4M#fight=7&type=damage-done&source=1

[thorny pond]

use !log

post it there

[young flicker]

!log

ty

[balmy condor]

@thorn crater

[flint pond]

does feint work on the flame soak in kurog?

[prime current]

What do you do if your guild is telling you that outlaw is better but you love assa?

[balmy condor]

you tell them to medicate themselves with their opinion

and then they say "what?"

and then you tell them its a suppository

[balmy condor]

yeah it should

[flint pond]

ty

[vapid sequoia]

I'm a little confused on the opener guide with exsang... is it best to use deathmark AFTER vanish garrote or prior to?

[brazen zodiac]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

if you don't miss a cast, it's better to hold vanish until after your initial exsang'd garrote drops

but we suggest vanishing before exsanguinate in order to sync vanish and deathmark up better

[vapid sequoia]

understood, but if I'm looking at the graphic right it is saying to vanish garrote and then deathmark - that is the part that is really confusing me as I thought we wanted to duplicate the empowered garrote

[balmy condor]

we do

[vapid sequoia]

I've been doing deathmark -> KB -> vanish -> garrote

[brazen zodiac]

:o

[balmy condor]

deathmark duplicates on cast

that's why we exsang->deathmark

[vapid sequoia]

oh shit, well im a moron, thank you

[balmy condor]

because it copies the exsang'd bleeds

[vapid sequoia]

I completely misunderstood the way that works

thanks for the clarification

[fringe bridge]

Is the current DS tooltip broken? It says it restores 1 energy per crit

[balmy condor]

that's what it does

[fringe bridge]

Patch notes say it restores 10 energy, that's a pretty big buff

[balmy condor]

yeh patch notes are stupid

that's not happening

it keeps pulling the data from the tier set for some reason and then scaling it out of control

[fringe bridge]

Gotcha, I was wondering why more people weren't talking about it, seemed huge.

[outer cairn]

because you're shivving on cd since you aren't saving for kb

[rocky ruin]

yea but isnt 7 envenom good with shiv

[robust spear]

Is there a reason that you run Iron Wire instead of Doomblade? Running m+ with a group that has tons of CC so it feels like the extra bleed damage from Doomblade might be a good option instead?

[balmy condor]

iron wire is crazy utility that defines assassination in dungeons

and doomblade is pretty much just a little bit of boss damage

[rocky ruin]

because here what im seeing, if we use shiv on cooldown, we get the 20% damge on our normal rotation, but if we save for reprimand, avoiding capping on it, u get 20% more on a larger damage ability which means it does more damage on our highest and biggest hitter

[balmy condor]

the damage you get from doomblade is realllllllllly pathetic

[proper tapir]

Bro, you can sync them. Do it, as long as you don't lose a cast of shiv it's all good

[rocky ruin]

im talking to them rn

[robust spear]

Ah, hm, yeah I'm running Master Assassin instead of Exsanguinate so I guess I could just go ahead and pick Exsanguinate instead to boost the singe target on bosses some

[balmy condor]

I don't think it makes that much of a difference honestly

I played 18 cos back to back with the same group one with exsang one with ma this week

and I legit could not tell the difference

[robust spear]

That's what I thought as well, my guild said they nerfed the crap out of exsang some patches ago so I figured that ma was a better pick just to get less buttons to press lol

[slow viper]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[balmy condor]

also for the record it ends up lining up pretty much automatically, you get 2 shivs every 50 seconds to echoing reprimand being every 45, and once they drift far enough apart you get the procs in the next shiv. 8 seconds every 25 seconds is almost 1/3rd uptime, you would almost have to make a conscious effort not to hit empowered envenoms inside of those windows

forcing a hold specifically with that combo of 2 charges and dtb and er + rc has shown pretty marginal differences

you can play around it and try and hold shiv for er if you'd like, there's nothing wrong with it

but given how the timings work out on their own without much thought, it's not going to net you anything impressive

[robust spear]

So with the M+ build for assassin at the moment I guess you lack quite a bit of single target dps? I pump as hell on AoE pulls but for single target I pretty much get rekt by any other class lol

[balmy condor]

it's not horrible

but playing IC you do lose a bit

DTB is pretty good single target though

depending on how long a boss lives for KB actually catches up and can win over dtb in some situations as well

like 2:30ish boss kills are very very good for KB

[robust spear]

I'm at 388 ilvl right now, single target on dummy is about 20.5K (no pots, glyphs etc), running the KB / IC build

[balmy condor]

how much are you simming for on a dummy with that build?

[robust spear]

Gonna have a look

[nocturne current]

Not timing shadowmoon 20 for 5 seconds is sacriligous..

They went 13 mins in advance to last boss and managed to wipe twice

[ebon notch]

Post meters

[nocturne current]

Ahahah

[robust spear]

Hm, 26k on dummy for sim, guess 21k ish is not too bad but I'll have to look over my rotation / timings

[placid rock]

when i use the puzzle box in the burst?

[balmy condor]

yeah looks like you're just undergeared honestly

[small meteor]

Can't believe the dream of taking dtb and IC will actually happen

[balmy condor]

before or right after dm

[small meteor]

Although seems like there might be better options? With the new changes

[placid rock]

@balmy condor ty so much!

[balmy condor]

for what situation

[small meteor]

If you're wanting more aoe or st focus

Dtb IC would be a good middle ground though?

[balmy condor]

for dungeons you probably don't have a better option than dtb ic

ap is very specifically a cleave talent or a little something extra for double capstone single target

dtb/ap for example sounds pretty good in cleave

kingsbane is probably just full dead

so my guess when I get to sim things this weekend is just dtb/ic or dtb/ap, or dtb single capstone

and the rest is mediocre

[worn path]

Would you use grieftorch just before DM? Then follow it with DM shiv/envenom/tea ER vanish shiv pandemic

[balmy condor]

you would want to puzzle box before dm to buff your burst and then grieftorch whenever

[worn path]

Ye, I don’t have puzzle box rn, I have the crit proc electric one I can’t recall the name atm.

[balmy condor]

back to al'gethar with your ass buddy

[worn path]

I timed a 22 last night and our monk got it

I might have one at 392 or something, I’d have to check my trinket surplus

[slow needle]

Isn't it giga-shit for monks?

[balmy condor]

I haven't seen a box in 25 keys

[magic vine]

between ap boosting bleeds and zold (and maybe tiny toxic?) that side is just looking real nice compared to ic. like unless you need aoe iron wire

[slow needle]

I keep getting m0 versions of it on characters I don't want it on.

[drifting cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-adorable-duckling-haha-classic-gif-17283485

[balmy condor]

yeh except it's also looking weaker than IC because spreading dots is ridiculous

ap doesn't do anything if you don't got dots to buff :P

[rocky ruin]

is box bis? cause i got one a bit ago and simmed it and it was like -1k dps even at high lvl

[balmy condor]

yes

[magic vine]

yea ic ramps that out faster for sure, and if your tank is pulling good its huge

[rocky ruin]

huh, i wonder why it simmed bad

[balmy condor]

were you simming single target?

[nocturne current]

Lol I just read the pin, what the fuck.

[worn path]

Well what do you have as an alternative?

[rocky ruin]

yea

[balmy condor]

no clue then, a 415 puzzle box should be crushing pretty much everything

[proud hollow]

So with all these changes what is projected to be the best ST build ?

[balmy condor]

ask again in like a week

[magic vine]

is your sim length a multiple of three minutes?

[balmy condor]

that shouldn't affect it

[rocky ruin]

so currently i have homeland raid horn, iridius fragment, controlled current tech

havent gotten any trinkets dropping, so raid horn and fragment are m0, but box was aparently worse than both of those even though it was a bit higher

[rocky ruin]

if this is referencing me than it was 5 mins

[balmy condor]

yeh idk real weird

puzzle box + cct should be a slam dunk

[proud hollow]

What is your first impression of changes with respect to ST? Are these buffs or nerfs?

[magic vine]

i was having box sim low on dslice i think? thought it was something with sim length

[slow needle]

Link the sim?

[rocky ruin]

yea i didnt have CCT at that time, but it was still worse than any of my trinkets, ill go farm some AA and try it again

[rocky ruin]

was like 2 weeks ago

i just remeber it because it was noticably lower than my other trinkets

[slow needle]

Should still be accessible if you have a raidbots account.

[rocky ruin]

so much so that I gave it up even when I won the roll

[rocky ruin]

dont

[drifting cloud]

did you sim with 2 on use

and puzzle box in 2nd slot

[rocky ruin]

possibly, i simmed all the trinkets i had so unlikely, i did it with either slot open

[balmy condor]

they're buffs, but doesn't seem to change much at all

if there's a build with the new capstone, it's gonna be better

but all the same builds we're used to from now are the same builds we're getting in 10.0.5

so we just have the same stuff as now, with the possibility of some niche situations where the new talent is better

at worst we just play the same builds

[outer cairn]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

would suggest running a droptimizer or a gear compare before you spam academies

[rocky ruin]

yea im going to, omw to an academy for io anyway

[granite widget]

how do you guys decide between kb/ic and dtb

first time playing sin in keys

[strange python]

so what is this dt exsang shit, do you open exsang and after garrote runs out deathmark?

or do you just straight up deathmark exsang

in opener

[pulsar fog]

you wanna press dm directly after exsang if you are playing it

[pure moth]

You would pop exsang before deathmark

[pulsar fog]

literally the next global

[sonic schooner]

it s exactly as the bk with exsang opener sequence, but without kb

[strange python]

this is without kingsbane

is it really that way even without

[robust spear]

Tweaked my rotation, doing about 25-28k now single target... I was just fat fingering I guess 😛

[pulsar fog]

yes

[sonic schooner]

#assassination-faq

[pulsar fog]

you wanna duplicate your exsang'd bleeds asap

[strange python]

that doesnt make sense in my brain

[sonic schooner]

Does exsang makes sense to anyone

[pulsar fog]

in what way?

[strange python]

in you dont get like double bleeds

[pulsar fog]

dm duplicates current and new bleeds for its duration

[strange python]

you just have deathmark running with dt poisons

current? i thought it was newly applied susge

[sonic schooner]

nope

[pulsar fog]

any bleed or poison on the target is duplicated while dm is on it, regardless of the order of application

[sonic schooner]

as he said 👌

[strange python]

ok well this changes everything

[sonic schooner]

but since DM is a bleed, never ever exsang after DM, or u will also cut your DM by half

[strange python]

yea i thought someone was arguing for that tho

cev maybe?

[balmy condor]

KB/ic on every fort key and also nokhud and also academy and also rlp and probably also halls and dtb for everything else where you don't pull big

[strange python]

no ones playing dt exsang from what im seeing in logs mostly at least

[sonic schooner]

In pvp it s debatable, but in pve it s like 10% nerf to exsang your DM

[balmy condor]

yeh dm->exsang is a wipe the raid and go next pull type of situation

[sonic schooner]

Whispyr u cute

[balmy condor]

you aren't recovering from that

[true lark]

do most folks take sepsis or bone spike? for some rason using bone spike anoys me its a spamy thing i think lol

[balmy condor]

no u

[sonic schooner]

😳

[balmy condor]

I have never seen someone take sepsis this expansion

[strange python]

sepsis is such an ass ability to use

[pulsar fog]

every time I make that mistake I just hang my head in shame and afk the rest of the fight

[balmy condor]

only way someone takes sepsis is to make a troll tree

[strange python]

not ass as in assassin

[sonic schooner]

i tried sepsis on outlaw single target because HO with ghostly strike is so baaad feeling, but heck sepsis is not great as well

[slow needle]

Imagine if Perfecto had done that xD

[balmy condor]

yeah

[lament warren]

yeah

you lose so much boss damage on that it’s unreal

in lust too

[true lark]

is garrote always used from stealth? never out of stealth

[balmy condor]

it's used from stealth to empower it

and then maintained at 100% uptime out of stealth

[true lark]

does it lose potency if u renew it out of steatlh if u keep 100% uptime

[balmy condor]

if you overwrite an empowered garrote with a normal garrote you lose the empowered effect yes

[true lark]

hey whispr do u ever play outlaw? just curious how u compare it to ass

[scarlet sable]

Outlaw is way different

So there just gonna take exsange out ?

[hollow river]

wdym?

[balmy condor]

I would rather remove my eyeballs from their sockets using only my own fingernails

[raven egret]

no need to play outlaw anymore

they are making us top tier m+ spec too now

[balmy condor]

you mean sub

that's 2 channels down

[raven egret]

who

[pulsar fog]

sub bangs in m+

[scarlet sable]

Outlaw is fine

No spec was really down bad

[brazen zodiac]

no balls u wont

[hollow river]

correct me if i'm wrong, but the new talent is roughly ~31% uptime on 20% extra bleed dmg ye?

[balmy condor]

yeh, and it spreads the poison thing in aoe too

so you get same uptime of poison debuff on shiv -> also on bleed

and on top of that, it hits like everything

[hollow river]

poison thing?

[nocturne current]

Does anyone already know where in the table is the arterial shiv?

[hollow river]

the non-lethals?

[hollow river]

it's where KB used to be

[balmy condor]

that and the 20% poison bonus

[vapid sierra]

does reapplying a non buffed garrote inside of pandemic over a buffed garrote remove the buffed garrote?

[hollow river]

you can look at what the talent tree will look like on wowhead PTR->tools->talent trees

[balmy condor]

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr/talent-calc/rogue/assassination

[balmy condor]

yes

pandemic only applies to duration, not damage

[vapid sierra]

so i basically just wanna min max that shit

[balmy condor]

the damage is entirely the new dot

[vapid sierra]

gotcha, ty

[balmy condor]

so empowered garrote -> empowered garrote = good
normal garrote -> empowered garrote = good
empowered garrote -> normal garrote = bad

[vapid sierra]

is simming 38k on a training dummy bad?

[balmy condor]

depends on your gear I gues

[vapid sierra]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ie2mV8tVoXj1zvupQCxmhn

geared for outlaw right now, heavily considering the swap to sin

i wanna try and gear for it tho for sure, im already gonna dump my next lariat on a better dagger, and get the puzzlebox trinket

[hollow river]

i'm fried tired atm, which 20% poison bonus? or is that baked into the talent itself along with the bleed dmg

[balmy condor]

improved shiv

[hollow river]

ah ok ye

[balmy condor]

yeh this is no good, 38k is pretty reasonable

[copper pine]

how big is the 4set in m+ ? When i sim it, it isnt that big but idk if i sim it right 😄

[vapid sierra]

im hitting like 43/45k in raid on terros, still trying to min max my shit, same thing with kurog, around 40k

[balmy condor]

10% roughly

[nocturne current]

DTB/IC. What a world to live in. This is the future.

[balmy condor]

yeh dtb lookin like the anker of assassination atm

I don't really think there's a build that doesn't take dtb now

[nocturne current]

I already changed my icon.

[balmy condor]

yeh that also sounds kinda reasonable

god bless amen

the church of dtb

[vapid sierra]

dtb + ic for aoe after the talent changes?

[balmy condor]

yeh

[raven egret]

aww sad no more kingsbane

[balmy condor]

maybe ap/ic for council

and uh

that's probably it

I doubt it though

[nocturne current]

Iron Wire Dathea

[balmy condor]

it's probably gonna be dtb solo for single target, dtb/ic for big aoe dungeons like academy, dtb/ap for small aoe dungeons like sbg

and then you run ap/ic on........... nothing

ap is super niche honestly

[raven egret]

this just seems like dtb propaganda

[balmy condor]

I mean dtb point for point is better than kb

and that's the only comparison that matters now

since they share a node

so KB is pretty much dead

[raven egret]

sadge

[vapid sierra]

do we take exang in the dtb+ic build after the talent changes?

[balmy condor]

AP is only good in cleave

yeah

[nocturne current]

You can still use KB for burstybursty

[vapid sierra]

fuck, that shit hurts my head

[balmy condor]

then don't play it

[gusty mirage]

we've come back full circle to our concerns about dtb on alpha/beta

[raven egret]

yea I guess kb for specific damage profile

but embrace dtb now smile

[balmy condor]

it's almost like we knew this would happen

[vapid sierra]

how much of a loss is it in kb+ic?

[nocturne current]

Next expansion, you can put all 6 poisons.

[vapid sierra]

to drop exang

[balmy condor]

probably around 1% like it is now

[raven egret]

you mean all 7

wound poison meta

[gusty mirage]

oh god

is this sub last week?

[vapid sierra]

oh shit im dropping that thing than

[gusty mirage]

mfers talking about using wound poison unironically

[balmy condor]

void-tempered blades for 11.0

[vapid sierra]

what do i throw the node into?

[balmy condor]

master assassin

cause you still want iron wire

[gusty mirage]

choice between 30% crit that you won't even notice, and a button you press every 3 minutes that you'll probably forget about

what a time to be alive

[balmy condor]

you mean is this assassination last week

[nocturne current]

But it's cool they invented a new poison. Hopefully they keep adding one once in a while.

[gusty mirage]

bro

sub rogues were unironically taking wound poison

and arguing that it was worth

[balmy condor]

assassination rogues were as well

[gusty mirage]

I hate it here

[balmy condor]

I had plenty of dm's about twist the knife instead of amp

because deadly + wound for sanguine

[nocturne current]

pvp spec confirmed

[gusty mirage]

they're doing it to themselves this time

[raven egret]

how much heal reduction is wound

base

[earnest remnant]

[gusty mirage]

this is your fault

for not yelling at them

and making them feel stupid

[earnest remnant]

not my job

i can just watch and laugh

[lament warren]

it is worth it on high sanguine

[gusty mirage]

[lament warren]

[balmy condor]

no it's not

[gusty mirage]

WHY IS MY WICKED LOW QUALITY

@earnest remnant stop hackermanning me

[lament warren]

it is

[raven egret]

damn the mobs will instaheal to 99% instead of 100%

[balmy condor]

according to what

[lament warren]

pick a log

[balmy condor]

uh huh

[lament warren]

compare instant vs amount of healing reduced from sanguine

i picked a random 22 vaults and without swapping wound was 900k ahead

[earnest remnant]

your subscription expired take the L

[raven egret]

how much was sanguine healing

[whole mason]

So basically the great solution for sin's cleave and aoe is BF. can we have that in general rogue tree now?

[raven egret]

200mil?

[lament warren]

there’s just so many lieutenant mobs that fuck around and heal 10 mil

almost unavoidable

can’t displace can’t kick

[gusty mirage]

[lament warren]

and then you can also just go back instant on bosses it’s giga

[balmy condor]

yeh I mean if you wanna swap for specific packs I can see it

[pulsar fog]

for me, no exsang sims higher xD

[lament warren]

idk

hate sanguine

hate every affix actually

can’t say i’ve ever zoned into a mythic keystone excited to interact with the weekly affixes

[hollow river]

[lament warren]

it’s good, just not in the weekly 15s most people arguing for it are doing

[hollow river]

what on earth has been going on while i've been away

[bronze pike]

probably saw the local dh take deadly dance for sang pulls

[balmy condor]

[bronze pike]

tricks green name now

congrats trickz, deserved

[lament warren]

sin rogue wound poison is definitely giga fake though kekw

[nocturne current]

Just sadge we probably won't have Blindside in DTB/IC

That was my favorite part of DTB.

[balmy condor]

also no zol

[worn path]

Other specs naturally offer mw like ww and warriors

[lament warren]

ww is single target

warriors are not real

[hollow river]

thanks

[worn path]

Should be kiting mobs around when they get low and prioritizing ones that can’t move first to avoid that.

[lament warren]

thanks

[worn path]

Just tell your tank it’s sanguin week and to smarten up

Rogues already solve enough problems in pugs

[lament warren]

okay i will tell him

no i won’t i’m scared

0 sanguine healing is fake

i swear to god any time i mention mitigating sanguine healing there’s always someone there to tell me XD have you tried kiting

[worn path]

It’s so true tho. The amount of time the mob spends in sanguine should be minimal, if not it’s a mistake

[lament warren]

shit kinda just happens

i mean yes

nobody plays perfectly

or io would be capped

you could have a group run the same exact key twice with wildly varying results

the one exception to this is in competitive events where they train like 12h a day to be consistent

[worn path]

The problem is if you run wound and then no mobs end up in sanguine it’s a loss. It’s not a mistake you should plan for imo

If there’s a problem mob kill it first and focus kick spells hazard spells in the mean time

It’s a better solution

[lament warren]

you should absolutely plan for it

because if it happens even one time on a high key it’s worth

wound poison value scales with key level

a lot of things about some weekly affixes are a larger dps loss than instant to wound

[patent estuary]

!logs

[lament warren]

when you run a class with a strict range requirement (spriest) and they get fucked because of tank kiting necrotic

that was common in sl

way bigger loss in damage than playing wound poison over instant

[worn path]

In a classic dark souls manner, just get gud imo.

Also, they would be more fucked if the tank didn’t kite out necrotic and died and the party wiped.

[lament warren]

well