assassination

[balmy condor]

generally never use instant

[weak horizon]

anyone use gral's discarded tooth? how is it?

not in simc yet, so i'm struggling to gauge its power

[gray hazel]

I assume you guys are doing Crit/Mast on your crafted item?

[balmy condor]

yep

[steel wind]

there we go

[gray hazel]

Thanks! Ill prob do neck, since wep will prob get replaced soon

[uneven magnet]

you can upgrade the weapon later

[gusty mirage]

damn we twinning

[steel wind]

just gonna wait a little with enchanting etc

since im not sure if the enchant will stick once I upgrade it next week

cus you know, blizzard and its ways

[gray hazel]

Oh shit really? Well no I’m lost again in what to do lmao

[steel wind]

yes

[simple ore]

either is fine, iirc the neck is the other embellished piece we use

neck embellishment is a tiny increase over weapon embellishment atm because the bis embellishment is dropped in the raid iirc

whispyr's sheet has all that info tho

[balmy condor]

yeah or you drop the diurna ring apparently

because like

flame cowl something something fire proc from ring procs the fire proc from the helm

super weird shit

running the numbers in a bit

[simple ore]

oh yeah I was gunna ask if flamecowl was worth using, because I really don't like using the channel or cast time trinkets

and if you don't go manic grieftorch then you have no fire damage afaik

[balmy condor]

grieftorch doesn't proc it from what I can tell

but the ring does

[simple ore]

no I mean grieftorch procs ring, so without grieftorch you don't proc the ring

so I was wondering if flamecowl proccing ring made it worth

but I guess the helm doesn't work how I thought?

read to me like it was just an aura

[balmy condor]

yeah

so the helmet procs when you do fire damage

[gray hazel]

When/how do you get the embellishments?

[balmy condor]

and grieftorch

doesn't work

but the special ring does

[uneven magnet]

Developer Notes: sin rogue op due to weird interaction with an helmet and a ring. Garrote damage reduced by 4% Rupture damage reduced by 4% Envenom damage reduced by 6%

[simple ore]

huh, if that's how the helm works then the tooltip is incredibly misleading lol

[balmy condor]

I mean

that whole interaction reeks of nonsense

but the spell data says it works

so I guess I gotta sim it now

[simple ore]

interesting

the helm just says it's an aura that ticks every 3 seconds, doesn't say you need to proc it

I'd have thought the helm procs the ring, not the other way around

[balmy condor]

yeah sorry

that's what I meant

[simple ore]

ooooh right I gotchu

[balmy condor]

too many items to keep track of in my head man

this crafting shit is a disaster

[simple ore]

ye there's a fuck ton of just trinkets, let alone all the new embellishments

[brazen zodiac]

gl whisp

[balmy condor]

looks like it's 1.4%

I hate it here

[brazen zodiac]

dont worry gamer

[simple ore]

wait so that puts it above wep/neck?

[balmy condor]

yeah

[brazen zodiac]

maybe they revert whole system

[balmy condor]

if you have the fire ring

then you go cowl

[simple ore]

so wep/head crafted if you have the ring

interesting

[balmy condor]

otherwise it's wep/neck

[simple ore]

I wonder if that also changes the bis trinkets

or is manic just that far ahead

[balmy condor]

oh no, that's just manic

we don't use the ring normally

[simple ore]

damn, I hate the channel/cast trinkets

[balmy condor]

we only use the ring with cowl

[simple ore]

I have puzzlebox and it feels awful to use lol

[balmy condor]

flame ring and flame cowl are a full combo

can't just use one

[simple ore]

makes sense

[gray hazel]

Are the embellishments just what the crafted stuff is called?

[balmy condor]

no

crafted stuff is crafted stuff

[simple ore]

it's the additional properties you add to crafted gear

[balmy condor]

embellished is procs on top of it

[simple ore]

can only be added to the spark crafts

[balmy condor]

yeh

[gray hazel]

Gotcha

That happens at time of craft? Same for every item?

[simple ore]

no you choose

[gray hazel]

Or something we add later?

[balmy condor]

you can wear nothing but crafted gear, but only 2 embellishments

[dark token]

anyone got a WA that can track improved garrotes (vs non improved ones), as well as exanged garrotes/ruptures? on a per target basis

[simple ore]

you can recraft the embellishment/add one at any point

[dark token]

there used to be this bleed DB i used in legion but i dont have it anymore

[simple ore]

this is an embellished weapon

[balmy condor]

nice flex

[simple ore]

tyty

[gray hazel]

And you picked that equip thjng at time of craft?

[simple ore]

don't tell anyone I can only do it with inspiration and insights

[weak horizon]

does vault of the incarnates release on monday or tuesday?

[balmy condor]

with weekly resets

like normal

[simple ore]

you can do it when you make the item or recraft one on

[weak horizon]

ah, okay got confused with the december 12th release date

[simple ore]

you can recraft to change the embellishment too

[tulip kernel]

bruv how tf u have a 392 dagger

[simple ore]

I made it

[balmy condor]

he rolled the RNG machine

[simple ore]

exactly

20% baby

[tulip kernel]

god damn

[simple ore]

there are people that have nolifed crafting so they can make 405 weapons already

[balmy condor]

see also: abused the fuck out of dirt and early rep farms to get crazy knowledge boosts

[gray hazel]

What is that dagger on the faq for assassination on the embellishments?

[simple ore]

yes

[hallow crystal]

Someone Rob this man of his luck

[tulip kernel]

how do u get that much knowledge tho

[simple ore]

err you don't need that much knowledge if you use insights and rng

[balmy condor]

you farm nothing but dirt for 3 days, last week

[simple ore]

I did all of this BSing today

[tulip kernel]

imma do this shit

[balmy condor]

I mean

you can

but it's already nerfed

[tulip kernel]

damn F

[simple ore]

you can get 392 without doing the dirt farm

[tulip kernel]

is there a guide for that somewhere?

[simple ore]

I just did all first time crafts except spark items, and then picked up the blacksmithing treasures

[balmy condor]

wowhead has blacksmithing guides

[tulip kernel]

cool ill look into it

[simple ore]

honestly I only did it to get the 382 crafted, but then saw 392 wasn't much more difficult

[cerulean nest]

are the bronze wrappings something that the crafter needs to obtain, like a recipe? or something we'll have to get to give as a reagent to them

[autumn bone]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[simple ore]

raid drop

for now fangs are best embellishment we can get

[cerulean nest]

right, but I mean does it need to drop for me (non crafter)

like a reagent for crafting

[simple ore]

err you know I have no idea

I'd assume it's something you can buy

like the other embellishments

[balmy condor]

yep

it's like the others

it's a recipe, they craft it, and then can sell it as a reagent

[cerulean nest]

gotcha

[simple ore]

whispyr I saw you got all the alchemy recipes discovered, did you go decayology too?

[balmy condor]

of course

[simple ore]

damn, you're talking my rng :(

[balmy condor]

can't get toxic phials without them

[simple ore]

I still have like 6 recipes to get

[balmy condor]

yeh

now it's potion time

for first crafts

real despair moment

[dark token]

doesnt crafting ur dagger now make it more difficult to recraft when u get mythic ilvl mat in raid

[simple ore]

no? not as far as I'm aware

recrafting is the same no matter when you do it

[dark token]

i mean dagger 1 was never crafted and created with mythic ilvl mat directly

dagger 2 was created 382 then recrafted with mythic ilvl mat

dagger 2 is harder to get good quality, no?

[simple ore]

it uses more mats overall but it's not more difficult

the difficulty to recraft is the same as crafting a brand new one

[dark token]

ok reddit lied to me

i swear i read that somewhere

[simple ore]

340 to craft, 340 to recraft, yeah it's the same

only thing I can think of is they compared no embellishment/missive to recrafting a new missive/embellishment onto it

which is wrong to compare

[tacit otter]

i assume in single target?

[balmy condor]

yeh

[smoky phoenix]

Got some noob questions, that should be easy to anser

[rain oyster]

2800 crit 2400 mastery going into raid as sin

https://tenor.com/view/nut-nut-nut-nutella-nut-button-nut-button-gif-23680452

[smoky phoenix]

Do poisons snapshot?(i.e. should i be prepull popping puzzle box?)
IS it possible with exsanguinate and deathmark to full bleed out the duration, and then get a second dopuble refresh?

[balmy condor]

only snapshot is exsang snapshotting haste

I'm not sure what the second question is

[smoky phoenix]

ACtually, disregard that question

[balmy condor]

also poison snapshotting would never work, you're just reapplying it over and over

[smoky phoenix]

new question

[balmy condor]

would overwrite constantly

[regal sable]

@balmy condor you have $10 and you buy two cokes for 10 minutes and burgers, now the first coke only last 2.5 minutes then you spend less to burgers and buy another coke, still $10. The difference transferred to burger difference not money wise

[smoky phoenix]

Why dont we use deathmark to doubleup the rupture/garrot? in the opener? Does it still catch the refresh after the initial opener?

[simple ore]

What

[balmy condor]

yep, the $10 and two cokes are transferred burger difference not money wise because the first coke only last 2.5 minutes and then burger to coke buy another is $10

that makes sense to me

[rain oyster]

this whole crafting things like learning linear algebra. i got the text book out

making my head spin

[misty holly]

Due to incessant whining on the forums during beta, Deathmark also applies to your current garrote and rupture when you press it - they get duplicated too. So you should put up bleeds first then cast deathmark.

[smoky phoenix]

Oh wait, you dont need deathmark FIRST to then duplicate?!

[simple ore]

Put knowledge in skill go up talents, use good mats, make good items

[smoky phoenix]

Wtf, TIL i guess lmao

[rain oyster]

make someone el;se use their mats to make ur items with mats better items

[misty holly]

That change during beta also supercharged Exanguinate, giving you duplicated 2x speed bleeds.

Which is why we are in the position we find ourselves this week with exang getting the nerf.

[bleak dove]

is it possible to sim with the exsang nerfs since it doesnt seem like they are updated on raidbots

[rain oyster]

work order this work order that 7 qualities, empheble, resource, taco bell, battlestar galactica

[balmy condor]

it's not that bad

we're 1 week into the expansion

takes time to learn anythiing

you'll be fine

[rain oyster]

i think learning this gives me 4 college credits

[balmy condor]

yeah sure

[rain oyster]

whole semesters worth of knowledge

[balmy condor]

it's really not that complicated

but sure dude

[smoky phoenix]

Also, when do we pop puzzlebox? prepull? Does the mastery affect the bleed/poisons only BEFORE they're applied or does it apply to already applied ones?

[rain oyster]

f that trinket tbh

it has a cast bar

[balmy condor]

for all situations, just delete the word snapshot out of your vocabulary

it's easier that way

[small meteor]

yeah that thing is so disruptive lmao

[smoky phoenix]

Ahh okay

[balmy condor]

pop puzzle box before deathmark

[simple ore]

can't really pop it prepull because it breaks stealth, or you end up wasting a good chunk of the buff

[smoky phoenix]

I came from ffxiv, so a lot of the damamge calculations revolved around that

[balmy condor]

yeah

you can just assume that everything updates dynamically

[smoky phoenix]

That's so much nicer

[simple ore]

things used to snapshot but that was changed a long time ago

[balmy condor]

I love all the puzzle box questions though

knowing full well no one's gonna be using it after this week

[simple ore]

wow also has pandemic which is nicer than ff14's debuffs imo

[balmy condor]

great stuff

[brazen zodiac]

haha

[simple ore]

tbf it's practice for manic's 2 second channel :^)

[rain oyster]

but ff14 has big anime boobs

hence better game overall

😉

[teal bloom]

What if I'm bad at puzzles and complete it after the boss has already been killed :(

[rain oyster]

🤔

[simple ore]

then blame blizzard for fucking you once again

or your tank for pulling too early, pick your poison

[teal bloom]

[brazen zodiac]

i pick crippling

[balmy condor]

crippling is my favorite

because it's a perma slow

so its weaker than like 75% of slows in game

which means any time something needs slowing

it's completely worthless

because someone else in your group is going to override it with a stronger slow

[drifting cloud]

well puzzle box is in m+

[gusty mirage]

go to sleep

[balmy condor]

yeah but it's also like the 8th best trinket

[smoky phoenix]

So for the opener it goes garrote > slice > garrote

[balmy condor]

and at that point you're just a masochist

[balmy condor]

if you're running kingsbane yeah

[smoky phoenix]

But my gcd is up before the second garrote can be cast

Should i just....wait for it?

[balmy condor]

what

rogue gcd is 1 second

[drifting cloud]

is there a somewhat accurate list somewhere

[balmy condor]

so you do garrote at 0, snd at 1, garrote at 2

[gusty mirage]

droptimizer

[balmy condor]

gonna make one tonight

[smoky phoenix]

Am i missing a talent or something? my garrote has a 6s cd

[balmy condor]

but yeh

[simple ore]

fuu's sheet has top four from his sims

[balmy condor]

improved garrote?

no cd from stealth for 3 seconds

[drifting cloud]

stop dunking on me

[smoky phoenix]

Oh but it shows vanish a few gcds later in that opener

[balmy condor]

yeah

[smoky phoenix]

So i assumed we dont stealth

[balmy condor]

what

why wouldn't you

[smoky phoenix]

Or do we pop stealth WAY WAYW AY before that so we have two uses

[balmy condor]

it's free damage

[simple ore]

rogue always starts in stealth

you don't need vanish to stealth

[smoky phoenix]

Right but, vanish is a 2min cd and the opener has it like 7 gcds in

[balmy condor]

yeah

[smoky phoenix]

what

[balmy condor]

so you start from stealth

[simple ore]

you just press stealth

[balmy condor]

do your thing

then vanish

[smoky phoenix]

What do you mean, rogue doesn't need vanish to stealth

[balmy condor]

there's a button

called stealth

[simple ore]

you can press stealth

outside of combat

[smoky phoenix]

.......

[simple ore]

and go into stealth

[smoky phoenix]

Holy fuck bro

Cringe tbh, sorry i even typed tbh

yikes x.x

Tyvm

[balmy condor]

we all start somewhere I guess

[simple ore]

tbf coming from ff14 I can see why you thought that

[gusty mirage]

[smoky phoenix]

ya i think im like

2 days into this lol

[balmy condor]

yeh

long way to go

[drifting cloud]

dont worry im over 5000 days into this and I still suck

[gusty mirage]

ryler's a gamer

[drifting cloud]

oxi how many times have you looted that trinket thats shared loot pol from alot of rares

the shell or whatever it is

[balmy condor]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[hallow sage]

wth whispyr, spreadsheet with no trinket sims? smh

alch bench cooking too much of your time

[simple ore]

turns out the sims say you can only run manic, puzzlebox, or storm eater

cast, channel or immobilize

[balmy condor]

not yet

[simple ore]

which do you want

[balmy condor]

tonight probably

[smoky phoenix]

So, save spark for next week

And wait on whisps sims to see what to craft?

[balmy condor]

pretty much

I think dagger is safe craft

but flame cowl + ring looks nice

if you can get the ring

and it's intended

and not bugged

[smoky phoenix]

i do need a ring

[balmy condor]

and doesn't get nerfed

[drifting cloud]

isnt that ring evoker prio

[balmy condor]

bro don't ask me

I have no fucking clue

[smoky phoenix]

But isn't crafting dagger a meme becuase we get m+ next week?

[drifting cloud]

upgrading a dagger costs multiple weeks of valor

[regal oxide]

how is Blazing Essence trinket from the tuskarr food boss for rogues (mini arcano crystal?)

[sour mango]

what would the dkb opener look like? no exang

[dense cedar]

That is maybe the funniest thing I've ever read in this channel

Stealth gaming

[thin gate]

guys, ive heard of some ppl brute forcing lvl 25 dragonscale

whats the fastest way for this?

[hallow sage]

dirt farming

[drifting cloud]

its alot slower it was nerfed

[thin gate]

all i grinded was like 10000 keys and got valdrakken 22 by repeating the 55 xp turn in quest

im already 15/18 at least for the 389 legs in dragonscale

[hallow sage]

actual degenerate energy dude

[misty holly]

It seems the embellishment proc on dagger makes it a good choice in the offhand even if you get a higher ilevel one later from M+ or raid.

[dense cedar]

People grinding to get the intended alt gear 😩

[thin gate]

i mean i got millions of gold by doing this

sold all mark of sarghas

like what else to do

[misty holly]

Plus you will be able to upgrade the dagger further with drops from raid and M+ to stay competitive in ilevel

[thin gate]

@misty holly i currently have a 392 dagger

[dense cedar]

People truly insane on expac launch

[thin gate]

i can recraft it and get weapon proc on it

right?

[misty holly]

a 392 crafted dagger?

[thin gate]

yep

the purple one

quality 5

Primal molten Shortblade

[gusty mirage]

I've gotten like 11 of them

[misty holly]

I think so, but I'm still trying to figure crafting out.

I haven't earned those 4 college credits yet.

[gusty mirage]

and 5 two handers

[thin gate]

what is the proc we want on weapon later? is it the 11k physical on hit?

[gusty mirage]

bronze wrappings

[drifting cloud]

hmm ok I should try looting one then

so I dont go into raid with shark trinket

[cursive igloo]

you can buy the turn ins if you are rich

[thin gate]

for dragonscale?

[cursive igloo]

oh no my bad wrong ones those are straight up people dirt farming

[violet jackal]

I think I ran out of dirt 😭

I went through 500 charges already

[idle coyote]

Durt

[earnest imp]

@balmy condor how much of a difference you guess that the "normal" crafted leather set piece is v crafted dagger for example? With mastery embelishment

[thin gate]

guys, can someone tell me if there is a guide to pvp gear?

[earnest imp]

I guess it's comparison of embelishments in the end

[thin gate]

like whats the best gear in pvp? is it conquest gear?

or is it the blood token one

[brazen zodiac]

#pvp can check there, theres some pins

[balmy condor]

most embellishments are between 0.7-1.4% above their un-crafted bis

[earnest imp]

So crafting the best slot (dagger and neck in spreadsheets) vs. crafting lets say life bound shoulders with mastery would have around 0.7% difference at corresponding ilvls

[balmy condor]

More than that

The % in the sheet that I list are compared to the bis items in that slot

Not to other crafting items

The only crafted slots you’ll have eventually are the 2 embellished

Everything else will be replaced with dungeon/raid gear

[grand trail]

Only neck looking promising or did I miss something?

[balmy condor]

Neck, dagger, and the flame cowl with the flame ring

It’s gonna be a combination of those 3

[earnest imp]

Well shit, just crafted the shoulders out of a whim yday and instantly regretting it now, shoulda done my research

[grand trail]

I went with dagger but propably will be replaced with raid / m+ soon

As neck not avaible

[balmy condor]

Well dagger will be recrafted into bis offhand

[grand trail]

AHH cool

I though there is some craft cap at level 5 or so

[idle coyote]

I got something for your offhand

[balmy condor]

[grand trail]

I thought crafting cap is around 390ish

[idle coyote]

It was these nuts

[balmy condor]

418

[grand trail]

That's lot, I don't really understand crafting much, my dagger is 389 as now as nobody cant do much higher

And I have fang ench as the bronzed wrapping is not avaible now ?

[cursive igloo]

wrapping i believe drops from raid

and you can recraft it for higher with mats

[grand trail]

But how the ilvl go so much higher ?

From 389 to 418 as it's already level 4

[balmy condor]

You give it better Titan matrix’s

[grand trail]

Best I saw was level 4?

[thorn crater]

isntthe highest possible craft right now like 402 or something?

[grand trail]

So it will drop higher later

[balmy condor]

Yeah 402 is highest atm

Which you can only get if you giga abused the dirt spawns

[idle coyote]

Durt

[earnest imp]

I really thought profession crafts wouldn't be this relevant

[balmy condor]

I mean at the end of the day

[idle coyote]

They will be replaced next week

[balmy condor]

It’s just min-maxing

[gusty mirage]

it's actually far more degen than that apparently

multi-character stuff

[balmy condor]

Yeah that too

[gusty mirage]

people are wild

[balmy condor]

You could avoid all crafting entirely

And only be -2% ish

[earnest imp]

I also wonder how common the recipe drops and matrixes are from raids

That will like 2 drop in a raid etc

Got 0 matrixes from first m0 tour ie.

[quasi osprey]

are the matrices fully BoP

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[quasi osprey]

💳

[balmy condor]

well depends how hard they went on group loot

Maybe they added it to group loot in raids

Dunno

Seems like a weird thing to do

[quasi osprey]

lowkey hope they didnt because im NOT on the short list for that

[earnest imp]

Will be funny to see when loot council is considering these lmao

[balmy condor]

I doubt they’re group looted

[celest drift]

@balmy condor heya, looking at your sheet it's seems crit/mastery gems are better than the epic one (main stat/crit)?

[marble sonnet]

What do you recommend to craft, it seems both outlaw and assa are relevant, so a dagger with proc in offhand to suit both?

[balmy condor]

Main stat crit is unique equip

[balmy condor]

Yep

[marble sonnet]

So wie go for daggooorz 😉

Thanks mate

[celest drift]

yeah i oversee that, but you don't use one in yout best gear sim

[balmy condor]

Which one are you looking at

There’s a couple sims on there with best gear

So

Kinda hard to know which one in particular

:P

[gloomy lake]

damn i fucked up i crafted a chest 😦 dagger, neck, and head piece you say?

for embellished gear?

@balmy condor

[gusty mirage]

you're fine

you'll get another spark next reset

and you'll just have to wait 2 more weeks for your next piece

[earnest imp]

Oxi do you know if we need to farm renown to continue campaign and get spark?

[gusty mirage]

it's really not as big of a deal as people make it out to be

no sparks are time gated

they're from that little counsel off to the edge of town

[earnest imp]

So no need to continue campaign for that

Good

Fuck renowns

[gusty mirage]

yea

[gloomy lake]

the two they recommend are OH and neck though right?

[gusty mirage]

yea

[gloomy lake]

you can only have two embellishments

[earnest imp]

And Traust I did the same, was tired and wanted loot

Whatever really

[gusty mirage]

so you're actually only two weeks behind technically

but like

it's 0.8% dps

who gives a shit

you'll be alright

[gloomy lake]

someone said something about firehelm and ring

from raid

[gusty mirage]

get dagger w/ the giga embellishment next reset

and you'll be aight

[strange python]

people are stressing too much about the craffting gear

[royal lantern]

0,8% dps IF you drop the emblishemnt/uograde material

[gusty mirage]

you'll have spark + primal infusion + someone on your server having r3 bronze wrappings

[royal lantern]

like bruh

[strange python]

reminding me of the sub channel at the start of slands

[gusty mirage]

and tbh it's probably a net gain overall

cause you'll run keys with guildies

[strange python]

IDK IF I SHUD MAK AKARI OR CAPE!!! HELP!!!

[gusty mirage]

and m0s

and you can trade them gear you wouldn't have been able to otherwise

[lone panther]

FAQ has DTB taking gouge over MP, compared to KB. I guess it's copy pasta mistake from M+?

[gusty mirage]

no, it's mostly because your only other options are nimble fingers or blackjack

cause you need to go down the middle of the tree

so it's just a preference thing at that point

MP won't get you there

[strange python]

gigantic poggers

[royal lantern]

gz

[lone panther]

Then why would KB and DTB pathing differ in this respect?

[balmy condor]

It’s just utility man take whatever the fuck you want

It isn’t some giga brain shit

[royal lantern]

MP is a bit more slow, gouge is cc

[gusty mirage]

woah woah woah

and 2% more leech

[royal lantern]

both dont matter when you hit a boss

[royal lantern]

ah yes, 2% meme stat

[gusty mirage]

don't tell hacha

he'll get upset with you

[royal lantern]

leech is big i swear

aoe happens, and when the healer is throwing in a aoe heal, im at 46% health instead of 40% like everyone else

BIG VALUE

[gusty mirage]

exactly

[quasi osprey]

play for the healing parse

[gusty mirage]

then you go to WCL, screenshot everything underneath the prompt to swap from damage to healing

[royal lantern]

leech gear+mp+ draenei/vulpera for healing racial

grab that 100parse

[gusty mirage]

just ignore the typo under "Highest HPS" it's supposed to be a D

[oak sky]

find mine

[misty holly]

what do bronze wrappings do?

[gusty mirage]

damage proc

[misty holly]

is it better than fang?

[gusty mirage]

yes

by a smidge

like .3%?

[royal lantern]

we are dps, if we grab something, its probs because it does dmg, or gives stats for dmg

[gusty mirage]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[gusty mirage]

[lone panther]

It's the only thing resembling a stickied info in a class discord (websites are even less maintained), so though it has at least some consistency thrown in. Because right now it kinda says Look, you have more poisons now, definitely get rid of MP. With that kind of discrepancy one starts to doubt the dps choices in the non-utility parts. But I will take whatever ofc.

[misty holly]

Oh glad I saw that. I was about to craft a fang dagger this week. So might be better to do a neck now, and then make the dagger with second spark once people have that recipe.

[balmy condor]

respectfully what are you talking about

[gusty mirage]

you can change embellishments

I crafted fang on my dagger, when the bronze wrappings are available, I'm swapping on the recraft

[balmy condor]

the entire top half of the class tree is nothing but utility

[misty holly]

Do you lose the spark?

[gusty mirage]

nope

[cursive igloo]

shhh logic is dngerous

[balmy condor]

if you need a sticky for taking utility

god bless you

if I make them all the same, you think this conversation is any different?

[gusty mirage]

you just need mettle & alloys & the new embellishment/stat missive/infusion

[balmy condor]

someone would just ping me "WHY NO GOUGE WHISPYR?"

it's the same shit

[lone panther]

Why so aggressive towards something that is not 0.5% simming difference discussion or shitposting though :/

[balmy condor]

I can put whatever I want into the top of the tree

I'm aggressive cause it's so giga irrelevant

[misty holly]

How big of a deal iks the rank 3 fang vs rank 2. The difference in price right now is a lot.

[balmy condor]

but for some reason it's a discussion, and then you said "It's the only thing resembling a stickied info in a class discord (websites are even less maintained)"

which by the way

is also my work

so you come in here

[celest drift]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/444adyWNFizavxWjWN6KXk this one

[balmy condor]

directly insult my work

[gusty mirage]

I wouldn't drop a ton of gold on it, I crafted my own so I saved a ton

[balmy condor]

and then tell me im aggressive

and you do that for what

cause you can't pick your own utility?

and need a talent import to tell you what to take?

[celest drift]

fuck i'm wasted

sorry boss 🙏

[balmy condor]

all good

[lone panther]

I thought it is mistake.y
You think it is irrelevant. How do these 2 lead to insults given or taken?

[balmy condor]

happens

[misty holly]

ty... I'm enchanting/herbalism so this is the first time Im engaging with the crafting order system.

[gusty mirage]

ye if you were gonna keep it I'd say go for it, but the idea is you'll replace it with the bronze wrappings eventually so it's not worth a huge investment ya know?

[misty holly]

Ya

Save some money so I can afford the wrap

Im sure it will cost a ton

[gusty mirage]

[cursive igloo]

its only worth it if you are min/maxing and can afford from teh get go

otherwise take it a small step

[gusty mirage]

oh yeah, the craft drops in raid

gonna be expensive af for a while

[balmy condor]

It's the only thing resembling a stickied info in a class discord (websites are even less maintained), so though it has at least some consistency thrown in.this is legit the most passive aggressive comment I have read in months. Do you not see how insulting it is to me when I maintain 3 guides for you to make some snide side-jab at the quality of them?

the builds have utility

they might take different utility

it's still utility

and makes no difference

that's all it is

pick what you want

leave me alone

[cursive igloo]

tbh i dont think alot of people realize the amount of work you put in to do this for everyone

[signal trellis]

welfare enchants for leveling and early dungeons/raids, burning writ?

[balmy condor]

everything needs to be instantly updated for every hotfix and every build needs to be indentical and simmed and

it's just ridiculous

anyway

I'm afk for a bit

have to update websites

(even less maintained)

[royal lantern]

wait, but then the dagger is low ilvl again

dont you need a high crafting skill to get it at max ilvl with a missive+procs?

[shrewd night]

Yes whispyr. Channel your inner Koffing.

[humble ginkgo]

!WHISPYR

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[humble ginkgo]

THANKS

[dense herald]

Did you just thank the discord bot

[shrewd night]

Moroes runs on positive feedback, just like the blades.

[humble ginkgo]

yes

[bleak sky]

listen here bud I give you a whole twitch prime sub every month to sim everything down to a T

if the website isn't updated in the first 30 seconds after the sim is done I'm revoking my sub

[fast pond]

always thank moroes

[balmy condor]

like your currency, you need to get real

[bleak sky]

twitch prime is bezos money it's good money please take it

[cursive igloo]

lol

it is better than a normal sub

[balmy condor]

you can keep your churizzo reals or cruzeiro or whatever

no hablo port of geese

[thorn crater]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[topaz bluff]

I think, in general people overestimate how important min/max builds are outside the "extreme endgame". Sure, they are very important if you're doing over +30 keys or Race to World first. You get a lot of leeway if you're doing +20-24 keys, or mythic raiding after you already get full mythic ilvl from M+. If people aren't a complete imbecile when it comes to talents the general public should be fine in most cases.

[balmy condor]

oh while I have you

ran those cowl things

I know you were interested

and uh

who was the other guy

@strange python I think

[shrewd night]

0.1%, but only if have ring

[balmy condor]

and you need the other tier slot

that you normally don't need

because you run the other 4

[shrewd night]

Hahaaa, fuck that

[topaz bluff]

I think that's right. Thanks a lot man.

[flint rivet]

On icy veins we are B Tier but I think we are a bit higher than B tier in MM+ since we have huge aoe cds with IC and spamming of crimson and our ST is pretty pretty fine, we may swap some talents for tyra weeks but imo we are kindra great what do you think about that?

[balmy condor]

and the ring is listed as "very rare"

whatever the fuck that means

[shrewd night]

Icy veins tier lists

[topaz bluff]

Tier is easy to get and maintain as the time gates come down. The ring idk how it will be O.o

[balmy condor]

I think I don't care what a tier list says because I've done like 25 of them at this point and I can assure you no one that makes a tier list actually cares where it is in a tier list

[oak sky]

well we would definitely get it loot counciled after any class that actually does fire damage im sure

[balmy condor]

I think every tier list I've made, be it for wowhead, or on max's stream

[shrewd night]

Making a reasonable tier list aka put 32 cats in a room to agree on one result while avoiding ww3 challenge

[balmy condor]

has legit just been "just rate it something, the idiots will eat it up because OOOOOO SHINY TIER LIST"

[oak sky]

demon hunter

warlock

[balmy condor]

there ain't even metrics for half of them

[shrewd night]

Nice color.

[oak sky]

purple classes cannot

[shrewd night]

Oh, I swear to christ almighty

[oak sky]

[balmy condor]

we transitioned to discord mute

[oak sky]

broooo

[shrewd night]

BRO

[balmy condor]

that role don't do nothing anymore

[shrewd night]

I WILL SLAP A MFer

[oak sky]

its always you two

[shrewd night]

WHY DOES IT NOT DO ANYTHING

[oak sky]

conspiring to mute me for nothing

[shrewd night]

ITS SO FUCKING STUPID

[balmy condor]

because we use discord integrated mutes

instead of role mutes

[oak sky]

wait

i cant see off topic

[shrewd night]

YES, BUT THE ROLE SHOULD STILL EXISTS AND DO ITS PURPOSE IF ITS THERE

[oak sky]

why cant i see off topic

[shrewd night]

Ye, get fucked idiot

[oak sky]

hold me im scared

[balmy condor]

because muted role is a little janky

[oak sky]

i miss my safe space

[shrewd night]

dw, Ill just slap
(even less maintained) in the roles descrpition

[dense cedar]

I'm glad tht Agreon person stopped talking

[balmy condor]

theoretically imo the muted role should just not be able to see any channels except rules and guides

[shrewd night]

Yes.

[balmy condor]

so uh

[shrewd night]

Let me go fix.

[balmy condor]

mr orange name

fix all the channel permissions

[oak sky]

[balmy condor]

we'll use agreon as a test dummy

[oak sky]

like you already did

[balmy condor]

let us know when you can't see anything anymore mr gre on

[oak sky]

i just want off topic back

[balmy condor]

oh, you're not getting it back

you're also losing the rest of them

:)

[shrewd night]

The channels arent synced

[oak sky]

nothings changing shiennar

chop chop

[balmy condor]

on a side note, isn't it weird how there's only 6 aarons

I feel like aaron is more common than that

[oak sky]

aaron earned an iron urn

[topaz bluff]

Apparently the "very rare" tag means the item has reduced drop rates, boosted ilvl, and possibly cosmetic effects. Blue post stated they wanted those to be the "chase items" every tier. I'll see if I can find where I read that earlier...

[crisp cipher]

There are a couple of packs in Nokhud Offensive that immune the first garrote

[pale plank]

can anybody tell me where are these timers from?

[crisp cipher]

Does anybody know if it's intended or a bug

[balmy condor]

well yeah we know that, but like how rare is "very rare"

[oak sky]

might be weird totem shit

[balmy condor]

looks like some weakaura pack probably

[royal lantern]

more rare then normal rare ofc

but extreme rare is still harder to drop

[crisp cipher]

Yeah that's what I'm assuming

[pale plank]

let me check, cuz man its getting in my way and i dont know where its from

[oak sky]

its definitely not intended for actual enemies to just not get garrote though

[balmy condor]

but is it like more rare than you having a good take, or more rare than hataro having a good take

[crisp cipher]

Yeah and it's annoying af

[royal lantern]

2nd

[balmy condor]

oof

that's rare

[crisp cipher]

There's also this thing in Brackenhide Hollow where I can stealth np, but something immediately gets me out of stealth even though I'd have no debuffs

Anybody else?

[pale plank]

its a bug

[crisp cipher]

Madge

[shrewd night]

@oak sky

[oak sky]

@shrewd night i think i lost spec channels for a sec

maybe you fixed it?

[shrewd night]

Discord is being jank, so had to overzealously fuck up the muted rank to make it do what I wanted

[oak sky]

lmao

i was gonna dm you to tell you it worked but then i could type again

[balmy condor]

moren din er så høylytt, selv den dempede rollen kunne ikke få henne til å stille

[shrewd night]

[balmy condor]

it was me

I was the reason she was so loud

my bad bro

[oak sky]

was that swedish

i see the funny letters

[shrewd night]

Hey uh

Agreon, can I trust you?

[balmy condor]

norweebgian

[oak sky]

A man of many talents

[oak sky]

Of course!

I am quite the trustworthy fella

[crude sinew]

!fuu

[shrewd night]

Cool, Im going to test in prod, because real men do that.

In about 20 seconds, Ill do a change, DM me if you cant type

[oak sky]

ok

[shrewd night]

Ok

so thats dumb

[oak sky]

is it working in a stupid way

[quasi osprey]

i wanna say quartz but not sure

[shrewd night]

I need to polish the system I think, because its omega jank

[oak sky]

good luck

feel free to test on me anytime

:3

[pale plank]

holy shit, its quartz, man you are a life saver

it was driving nuts

[quasi osprey]

np :)

[winter gale]

Is there some item that I should craft for raid/s1 release =

?

Im a bit lost in that subject, not really knowing what to craft and when

[steel sorrel]

OH dagger or Lariat Neck is recommended I think. Check faq

thou Lariat neck is a raid drop so I just made a dagger 🙂

@winter gale

There you go

[winter gale]

Thank you

Is there a similar list for Outlaw? I will most likely play both specs so I would like to check where this offhand stands for Outlaw. If its a good combination for both I will go for it by the raid time

[steel sorrel]

You need to ask an outlaw rogue or in their channel for that, this is assassin 4 ever home ❤

[oak sky]

I'm sure similar embellishments should be strong, but you can always double check in outlaw channel yeah

[winter gale]

Ty

Helpful as always ❤️

[steel sorrel]

sure thing bud!

[still horizon]

so assass gonna be the prog spec for rwf ? what are people expecting

[dawn elm]

do you hold deathmark for exsang now?

even with the dragontemp build (st)

nvm found it in the pins

sorry

[flint ridge]

is there a guide for simming?

[balmy condor]

!simguide

[prisma monolith]

Guide to Simming yourself: https://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-raidbots-sims-stat-weights

For more accurate results you should always sim yourself using Top Gear for gear you already have in your bags
or Droptimizer to see which content drops the biggest upgrade for you. Do not use Stat Weights sims to evaluate gear.

[flint gulch]

does anyone have weakauras for DtB? I know i know roation helpers bad but im gone need it im not 20 anymore

[dense cedar]

wdym

[flint gulch]

How much stuff can macro together ive my goal is to reduce buttons?

[balmy condor]

depends how close you want to be to optimal

the more you macro, the worse your damage

[brazen zodiac]

:o

[balmy condor]

you could in theory just cast sequence your entire rotation into one button

[flint gulch]

I have slight impairment my motor skills or well sligthly above average clumsyness

[balmy condor]

but you'd be doing dogshit dps

so it entirely depends on whats acceptable for you

[thorn crater]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[thorn crater]

oh

enchants change for m+?

[flint gulch]

My goal is to stay under 20 keys above that im just not gone be consistent

[balmy condor]

yeah, frozen pops off hard in anything more than single target

[brittle burrow]

Did you found it? quartz cast bar has some of these popping up

[pale plank]

Yea I was able to find it after someone said it was quarts

[thorn crater]

would it ever be worth it to run frozen on teh offhand in ST too since there is never just ST?

[balmy condor]

depending on that add uptime I guess

like a normal cleave add, which is 1 boss, and 1 add for about 60% of the fight

1 frozen dev is quite a bit behind

[thorn crater]

gotcha

4 weapons it is

[dawn elm]

is there a st opener with dtb now that it does not use exsang?

is it like the one in faq just -kingsbane?

[balmy condor]

it's similar yeah

there's a couple issues because no ss means the opener changes as well

working on getting an update for that

[dawn elm]

swett thx 🙂 started to play rogue now in df and this disc is insane compared to most

rly active i like it!

[thorn crater]

i hate trinkets that cause loss of control of your character

fuck taht boon

[dense cedar]

excited to see it nerfed then

[worldly sphinx]

Hey guys, I'm New to sin. And I Was wondering what build should I take to start learning the basic vs dummies ?

[dense cedar]

Kingsbane is fine to learn

no significant proc management

just gotta watch ur cds

[snow plinth]

So uh, is there a reason one of the bis daggers and the alternative dagger listed on the wowhead guide are intellect daggers?? lmfao

[obtuse ruin]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[obtuse ruin]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz

[shrewd night]

Probably a mistyped itemID

[dense cedar]

I blame Koffing for this

[balmy condor]

fun fact, I have changed this 5 times now

[hollow escarp]

I mean, if people use these daggers, they clearly need the int

[dense cedar]

Nah tbh Int/Agi dagger divide should be removed

[balmy condor]

@snow plinth refresh your page

I pushed the updates again

[dense cedar]

Whispyr

Do you think

Crippling poison should go up to 85% slow?

[balmy condor]

I think I don't care about crippling

[dense cedar]

alway so mean to my suggestions

i am the true rogue

[solid mica]

do we use glacial fury for all content?

[balmy condor]

god no

glacial fury is the worst phial

in single target

it's good in aoe

[solid mica]

ah

[balmy condor]

but in raids no way

use anything else

[solid mica]

oh, I haven't delved too deep into consumables yet

do we have ours posted anywhere?

[balmy condor]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

there's a comparison there

[burnt latch]

Hey rogues

I hope u all have a wonderful day

[oak sky]

Hey herbie

[burnt latch]

Hi cute boy

[oak sky]

:3

[balmy condor]

you too mr pogcieft

[winter gale]

Kingsbane build looks difficult, is it way way different compared to assa in previous expansions?

By difficult I mean alot more binds

[balmy condor]

no

it's basically the exact same playstyle

except now you sorta hit some buttons every now and then

[burnt latch]

Im not sure if i prefer kingsbane gameplay or dtb gameplay

Dtb is pretty afk which is cool

[shrewd night]

But kingsbane has the MEATY execute

[winter gale]

Kingsbane is also 1k better for my character

[burnt latch]

I might be wrong but execute dont seem too important in the upcoming raid

Unless they change the fights by a lot

Razsageth seems to not have % based phases apart from p1 either

Or atleast from dungeon journal

[oak sky]

still can be important to end fights early tbf

[worldly sphinx]

Wdym ? Boss get out of the fight at 35% hp ?

[oak sky]

last phase hard phase

[trim zinc]

no tier set prob

[burnt latch]

Yeah but execute doesnt really contribute to that

U just want as much dps as possible for the fight timer if u dont phase at certain %s

[thorn crater]

yall are acting like DTB doesnt take any points in zoldyck

[burnt latch]

Idk what u mean brother

[trim zinc]

ya lol

[thorn crater]

u still get execute phase u still get blindside

u just enter it 5% later

big woop

[trim zinc]

?

no?

[shrewd night]

Who?

[trim zinc]

isnt just the dmg

[thorn crater]

oh

its the dmg

welp even better then

[worldly sphinx]

No I dont understand why execute is not important

[thorn crater]

ye i always get the 2 things mixed up

[trim zinc]

it is but depends on the fight
dennny daddy for example was super important

[burnt latch]

Well theres been tiers where execute is massively valued due to a lot of fights having % based phase timers

This tier doesnt seem like thats the case

So execute loses value raid utility wise

[shrewd night]

Denny important. And then you get sylvanas as a curveball

[trim zinc]

ya lol

denny and sylv, one matter a lot and the other one doesnt even have execute

[burnt latch]

If boss has set timers it does things, ud rather just have a class that does most dps in the total fight timer. If boss phases at execute % and the last phase is difficult and u want to get out of there quick, u might want to play a less overall dps, but more execute dps class

Basic shtuff

[worldly sphinx]

Oh tyvm, didnt get it at all

[balmy condor]

execute in general is more important

but there's a difference in when execute is important

sometimes there's like boss enrages and shit

that's giga execute value

but if the boss just goes 100-0 in a phase 1, phase 2 loop

then it's kinda whatever

[burnt latch]

Yeah basically whenever boss phases at a low % and makes the fight difficult, execute gains value. If not its not something u considering when choosing your comp

Something like guardian from sanctum, execute has 0% value

Or halondrus

Well kinda not halondrus

There u actually got value from having execute

I miss crabby man

[cobalt hemlock]

i heard usually in mythic prog execute is big good

prolly not for like race but for norm prog

[burnt latch]

As a general statement, yeah

Its never bad

But u rarely play around it if the boss doesnt react to going into execute

Like ud never lust a boss in execute if it didnt hace % based transitions for example

[kind forge]

it is good for prog, if your people tend to get less concentrated at later stages of the fight
or if mana is still a problem

[burnt latch]

Purely because its in execute

[heady surge]

!pd

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[hidden crown]

so are we still using exang?

[cursive igloo]

see pins

[hidden crown]

I literally am

[vast shoal]

hey whats crit cap for sin ?

[flint tusk]

Do you have anything against modifier macros?

Where you use the same keybind twice but with either an alt / ctrl / shift hold down modifier.
So one ability is a normal press
second ability Alt and key press
etc

[royal lantern]

espacily during prog AND early epxansion, healers tend to fight with mana

[cursive igloo]

there really isnt you stack it high

[royal lantern]

34%

sorrynotsorry

[vast shoal]

ok thank you

[shrewd night]

For clarity this is a meme, the critcap is 100%, but there is no magical amount you are aiming for.

[flint gulch]

im to clumsy to use them effectivily

[vast shoal]

hmm how much haste should we be aiming for. feel like sim isnt quite right haha got like 2%

[cursive igloo]

dont neeed alot

if you can avoid it

crit => mastery > haste

[balmy condor]

haste ain't great

[vast shoal]

ok thank you.

[balmy condor]

@drifting cloud sheet has trinkets now

+whoever I wanted to ping earlier but forget their name and can't find

[shrewd night]

Just tag everyone bruther

[balmy condor]

no no

I'll find them

[balmy condor]

AHA, IT WAS YOU

[flat jasper]

! whispyr

[burnt latch]

what happens if i tag everyone

[balmy condor]

it gets deleted and nothing happens

[burnt latch]

oh

[flat jasper]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[burnt latch]

profanity

[shrewd night]

Banished to the shadow realm

[balmy condor]

your message did in fact get removed

[burnt latch]

it did indeed

[mellow dagger]

At least your message is the only thing that suffers here. In the dk disc, they prey on the opportunity to insta ban you

I'm thankful that everyone is much nicer here

[shrewd night]

[royal lantern]

[shrewd night]

We play the long con here

[hallow sage]

hi babe what can i do for u

[balmy condor]

I simmed trinkets and you flamed me for it so I'm informing you I did it so you can starege at yourself

[balmy condor]

yes.... much nicer......

I have never cyberbullied in my life

don't know the word

not part of my vocabulary

[hallow sage]

no flame i love u ur the best please dont be mad anymore ur having too much stress rn and i think you just need some love bb

[shrewd night]

Go update your fucking guides whispyr
(barely maintained)

[ebon notch]

guardian had an enrage

it wasnt very hard but it did have one

[balmy condor]

go update your dick (very tiny)

[shrewd night]

[balmy condor]

[burnt latch]

not a percentage based one

every boss has an enrage

[ebon notch]

yes true but it lined up with execute hp

well

that depends actually

idk ignore me

[burnt latch]

u drunk

[ebon notch]

no pillar boss boom

i wanted to contribute but i didnt have anything of value to say

[burnt latch]

its fine we are glad to just hear from u

even if it makes no sense

[ebon notch]

eventually ill come up with smth useful right

[shrewd night]

[burnt latch]

surely, right

[ebon notch]

wat

[burnt latch]

a broken clock is right twice a day

[balmy condor]

it's a tomato on its side, he's saying you're sweet

[burnt latch]

ull eventually hit a jackpot

[ebon notch]

why is there an emote with my name in it in a private server

[burnt latch]

LMAO

[balmy condor]

[burnt latch]

hahahahah

can i get server invite

[balmy condor]

no sorry

cool kids only

[shrewd night]

No

[burnt latch]

am i not cool

gotta go change my resume i wrote that as my main asset

[royal lantern]

[bitter turret]

hey a quick question, what are the bis embellishments for this spec on a weapon? 🙂

[balmy condor]

quick answer is either spreadsheet

or faq

whichever you prefer

[hallow sage]

u rang?

[chilly oasis]

i assume we hold exsang for next 4min deathmark, correct?

[balmy condor]

if you don't miss a cast because of it

[hallow sage]

kind of stacked m0 world tour for my trinket situation

[chilly oasis]

oh as if fight was gonna end at 3:30, gotcha

[bitter turret]

I'm asking because it's neither on the spread sheet or the gear section of the wowhead article

[balmy condor]

?

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

is this not good enough for you

oh

wait

wrong screenshot

is THIS not good enough for you