assassination

[balmy condor]

DTB can't be taken with another capstone

or trust me, we would

[barren lintel]

When was the last time that sin was the go to spec? Like by miles?

Talking about rogue specs. Not in general

[spice spire]

8.3

[barren lintel]

Oh really? That ain’t that long

[royal lantern]

isnt it almost 3 years?

[steel ridge]

isnt that beautiful

[balmy condor]

dropping cttc

perfect

[steel ridge]

[plain jewel]

So if I exsanguinate and then deathmark, do the doubled bleeds also benefit?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[urban minnow]

Are y’all playing sin in m+? Or only on tyrannical weeks ?

[steel ridge]

nobody is playing m+ rn

[urban minnow]

I meant when it launches

[trim zinc]

Im ;-;

[balmy condor]

I’m playing sin m+

[gaunt tree]

i've been trying it a fair amount, looks pretty decent tbh

[trim zinc]

Ic is cool and feels good
Big dmg

[gaunt tree]

carnage every 2 or 3 packs depending on speed, very consistent

[urban minnow]

Wonder how dtb would be doin m+

[grizzled ruin]

whispyr any tip on what gear to craft with the spark?

[steel ridge]

i am probably only going sin for raid and stick with outlaw for m+

[balmy condor]

Probably a dagger

[balmy condor]

Seems okay to me

Basically margin

[urban minnow]

That’s so wild without IC

[slate crane]

2 questions: is ttb not good? and should i prefer sepsis over sbs?

(single target)

[steel ridge]

wtf is embellished

[royal lantern]

ttk is really bad

lmao sepsis

[balmy condor]

ttb would be good if we had like 2-3 more points, but atm it’s just barely not good enough

Sepsis is dogshit

[balmy condor]

The crafted gear

[steel ridge]

ttb is like a pvp angle where you dont have time to wait for ambush to proc

[urban trench]

I just picked up Alchemy, what specializations do u guys think are good/fun?

[trim zinc]

I went phial one first

[urban minnow]

With dtb in m+ what would you be doing to keep up with the other build on packs?

I’m so shocked they are close like that

[uncut garnet]

has any discussion happened regarding darkmoon card inferno? price is almost reasonable on my server

[plain onyx]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[balmy condor]

Weaving envenoms with PB

Also means it’s back to the sim mines with me

Cause there’s something there with CT and PB me thinks

[royal lantern]

👋

[balmy condor]

But I didn’t find it the last time

[urban minnow]

Ah yes pb

Something there like what?

[subtle tundra]

thats so cool

will you stream?

[balmy condor]

Logic wise to improve the sim

[balmy condor]

Ye

[subtle tundra]

🫡

[urban minnow]

Just curious whispyr what race do you play in game

[balmy condor]

Belf

[trim zinc]

I'm a nightborn
Elfs>>>>>>>>>>>>

[trim zinc]

Female ofc

[balmy condor]

Yeh I was thinking of changing to orc for the aesthetic but idk

Can’t do it

[royal lantern]

elf players are more generix then humans

stop typing whisp

[balmy condor]

Nightborne is sick though

Respect

[royal lantern]

into the sim mines

[trim zinc]

❤️

[balmy condor]

It’s 5:30

I’m heading to the bedge mines

[subtle tundra]

no way

[acoustic sky]

gotta grab some sleep man

[trim zinc]

Noway

[subtle tundra]

aint not fucking way

you have the option to sleep??

[royal lantern]

he said bed, not sleep

[subtle tundra]

time to prospect more ore

LETS GOOOOOOOOOO

[spice spire]

Silence vulpera main

[royal lantern]

"going to bed" translates into "2hours phone"

[balmy condor]

Yeah it’s like GTA, have to get into bed and make the screen black for a second to start new day

[royal lantern]

silence exsang enjoyer

[spice spire]

[subtle tundra]

now that realz doesnt come here as often how do i make it known i want to do more dmg in M+

forum posting?

[spice spire]

Skill issue

Yeah

Post forums

That’ll teach him!

[balmy condor]

Become a forum screamer

You’re a natural already

So much innate talent

[subtle tundra]

i have strong opinions

thats all

i present the facts. influenced my my opinion

[spice spire]

Strong is one word

[subtle tundra]

CAN THIS STOP HITTING THE AIR AT THE LEATHERWORKING STATION AND MAKING WEIRD SOUNDS

[royal lantern]

nothing is better then visit the forum for the first time in 6years

and the same 5people comment on EVERYTHING still

[whole bay]

do we still use exsanguinate now?

[gusty mirage]

Yes

[whole bay]

oh my so the nerf really isnt that bad?

[royal lantern]

i mean

yes and no

[lapis mirage]

This is the play right

[royal lantern]

some builds use it, some dont

[royal lantern]

mindnumbing/atrohpic.....?

[spice spire]

No deadly

[royal lantern]

oh yes, and deadly

[spice spire]

You want deadly not instant

[gusty mirage]

Nerf was chunky, but it’s still that good despite a huge nerf

[lapis mirage]

ait. nice thanks

[royal lantern]

instant poison is Something you never touch as assa

[gusty mirage]

I want you to stop ignoring my DMs

[spice spire]

Brother?

I responded last

Wdym

[gusty mirage]

The other DMs

[spice spire]

[spice spire]

Looks good

[lapis mirage]

we out here now

[gusty mirage]

Much better

[lapis mirage]

poisoning people

it's that time of year

[royal lantern]

dick picks?

[gusty mirage]

@spice spire KB/IC in keys

I can’t wait

[spice spire]

Buddy

It’s so good

[gusty mirage]

One more week

[spice spire]

I ran it as a ratge and almost did relevant damage

[gusty mirage]

Wouldn’t you like to know

[spice spire]

Did it as non ratge and it’s

[gusty mirage]

I haven’t had that much fun in dungeons in forever

Just cranks man

It’s nuts

[spice spire]

Amen buddy

You’re telling me minimal effort and we’re cranking?

[whole bay]

is there a reason we dont use dragon blades and kingsbane together?

[spice spire]

Back in my day, we abused the tab button

[gusty mirage]

we can’t

[whole bay]

oh

[spice spire]

Yeah you numerically cannot

[whole bay]

i thought you could

cuz that would be insane

[gusty mirage]

Poison bomb being 2pts kinda prevents us from taking another capstone

[whole bay]

okok

[gusty mirage]

We end up one point short

[whole bay]

i bet blizz didnt even do it on purpose

[gusty mirage]

Realz did do it on purpose

[lapis mirage]

question about rotation for ST: serrated bone spike is used whenever I suddenly remember it?

[night delta]

exactly why we can't

[feral mason]

Is feeling energy starved normal on assa with current builds? Im following the rotation / openers to a tee (even pressing buttons slightly slower since im still learning) but i never have enough energy to chain casts together like on outlaw

[lapis mirage]

also what are some useful tools for practicing rotation on the dummy? yall just spitball that or? I try to follow the faq opener and then just keep bleeds up and just kinda get accustomed to it all

[hollow escarp]

That sounds about right

[spice spire]

It’s in the faq. Don’t overcap, use when it makes sense otherwise

Ie. “I need to hit 1cp here for rc” or “I have to run away, but don’t want to overcap energy and need some cp”

[silent lagoon]

are we guys going DTB now?

[normal mist]

It's in the faq, a good raiding build is DTB oriented

[whole bay]

Assassination isnt supposed to be as spammy as outlaw

[silent lagoon]

oh, haven't checked faq for a day, must be updated

[spice spire]

Updated often

[barren lintel]

So now assassination doesn’t have any execute if we got for DTB

[normal mist]

Sustained DMG all the way

[night delta]

you mean in ST or AoE ?

[subtle tundra]

i love it when the pure st ability is outperformed by the cleave one

[night delta]

Cuz the DTB raid build in faq still has BS and zold 1

[normal mist]

Plus blindside procs more often

[normal mist]

This

[night delta]

Burstiness of KB might still be privileged over DTB in certain situations

even if it sims for a little less

[subtle tundra]

my point still stands

sorry but im back to the dooming

[barren lintel]

But only zold2 and not zold3. Where is my execute at

[night delta]

I mean, see it the other way around. Would you ever pick DTB in ST if it didn't have burst AND performed worse overall than KB

[subtle tundra]

in pure ST?

no

but many fights arent pure ST

most fights arent pure ST

[night delta]

a lot of those fights the cleave can be clearly handled by classes way better at it and/or aoe

[gusty mirage]

Varas would you like a hug

[night delta]

going cleave for those would be just padding

[barren lintel]

We need execute that is harder than arms execute or Legion fury

[subtle tundra]

i can get hugs

i cant get assa good with hugs though

[night delta]

oof no

[barren lintel]

The amount of dooming is bigger than the whole enhancement community after a flat 25% nerf. Holy

[subtle tundra]

its just me

[night delta]

if we had that and blizz got hold of this, we would just become noodles outside of exec

[subtle tundra]

cause i only care about m+ balancing

and rn outlaw and sub are both much better

[barren lintel]

Well then those are there for you

[subtle tundra]

if i didnt care about assa i wouldnt be dooming

if i wanted to play something else, i wouldnt think about assa

[halcyon arch]

Anyone seen this Scav rare(with 3 stat belt drop) on eu today? Been camping him for 2 hours.

[royal lantern]

and thats why nobody takes you seriously 😄

m+ players think their opinion matters

[barren lintel]

It’s good in pvp, good in raid and not bad in m+. That’s more than most classes could ask for

[night delta]

low blow

[gusty mirage]

[royal lantern]

still love him

somewhat

[subtle tundra]

well considering that unless youre top 20 raiding your spec barely matters cause youre overgearing the encounter why care about raids

you cant outgear m+

[dawn jolt]

So true I’m here because my main affliction is struggling

[subtle tundra]

its balance gated

[neat plank]

outlaw = bad ST
sin = bad AoE
sub = bad 2-target
I quit rogue!!!

[night delta]

I mean you can if you don't push :p

[gusty mirage]

Outlaw isn’t even bad ST

[royal lantern]

^

outlaw has decent st

[gusty mirage]

Outlaw rogues are just crybabies

[royal lantern]

outlaw turned into the rogue version of balance druid over the course of this beta, ngl

[gusty mirage]

I WANT TOP ST TOP CLEAVE TOP M+

[dawn jolt]

Also sorry if this was asked but is there an opener for dtb without ss

[royal lantern]

NeRf OuTlAw

ReStLeS CrEw Is NoT BiG!

[subtle tundra]

the only thing assa does better than sub/outlaw in m+ is being better at 2t than sub which doesnt mean much considering sub

[royal lantern]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[shrewd night]

I WANT 100K SPEC TOO

[royal lantern]

remember how guy first said assa is a troll spec, it only does ST in a aoe/cleave raid

and then startet complaining that assa does higher st, aoe/cleave doesnt matter?

[gusty mirage]

I do

[subtle tundra]

i just want assa do be good at something 😦

[gusty mirage]

I also remember how the ST number kept increasing with each meltdown

[royal lantern]

wait, you can just update weakauras when you import a new version?

[night delta]

??? Outside of m+ it definitely is

mixed signals much

[gusty mirage]

Yea

[subtle tundra]

its slightly better on ST than sub

[slim hamlet]

I just thought about it a little extra, imagine exsang can be nerfed THAT HARD, and it's still the best in many situations

[royal lantern]

i always deleted them and imported a new one

[slim hamlet]

Imagine how fucking op it was before

[night delta]

and that doesn't qualify as "good" ?

[slim hamlet]

god damn

[subtle tundra]

and once again, i dont care about raid balancing

[gusty mirage]

Don’t need to imagine, we were 10% ahead of every other spec in the game in ST

[subtle tundra]

if outlaw is much much better for a boss than assa/sub i can play it for the couple of nights it takes us to prog it

[slim hamlet]

Yeah but thinking about the nerf just makes it infinitely more obvious

[hollow escarp]

Sounds fine to me

[slim hamlet]

Also THE 7TH TIME IN A ROW I BOOM IN EXPERIMENT

reeeeeeeeeeeee

[gusty mirage]

Naw you’re supposed to meltdown about every time you might have to play outlaw

[night delta]

then ftfy

[royal lantern]

i mean, i understand what you mean varas, but blizz stated multiple times allready that they balance the game around mythic raiding and +15 (and probs +20 now in df) keys max

[gusty mirage]

Like the pirate rogues do

[subtle tundra]

at something in m+

[royal lantern]

like, sucks, but blizz doesnt care what happens over the max reward key lvl

[subtle tundra]

ok i fixed it

[gusty mirage]

I’d imagine it’s close to a nightmare to keep the majority of the game balanced if you’re balancing around high m+

[night delta]

also honestly, we should cut a bit of slack

[subtle tundra]

yet outlaw keeps getting away with it

https://tenor.com/view/he-cant-keep-getting-away-with-it-gif-19335672

[night delta]

balancing so many specs over so many different damage profiles

is just not possible

having ok-ish balance overall is already an achievement

[uncut echo]

It's hard too, right? Because at least with pvp you can have separate balancing. Not the case for different pvm content

[uncut echo]

[gusty mirage]

Yeah their pvp balancing is top notch

[uncut echo]

Not saying it's an excuse

Buy it's entirely separate at least

[royal lantern]

wow pvp lmao

[uncut echo]

With raid and m+ the balancing is always tied together

[royal lantern]

pet battles are more serious then wow pvp

[uncut echo]

Muh 1800 sets

Muh fomo mog

[gusty breach]

M+ is easy to balance, make all classes and specs the same. Boom solved

[uncut echo]

Is this not peak rogue armor

?????

[royal lantern]

glowing shoulders+rogue never fits

always looks so bad

[gusty breach]

U look like a poe character

[uncut echo]

Nah fam that shit goes so hard

[slim hamlet]

Sepulcher rogue gear is BIS

[abstract helm]

I take off the helm and shoulders on that set, looks better

[slim hamlet]

Normal that is

[uncut echo]

I have every color

[slim hamlet]

Heroic is uggers

[uncut echo]

Norm, lfr, heroic, mythic, gladiator and elite glad

[gusty breach]

Silvanas had amazing set for plate wearers

[uncut echo]

Like, every color

Lmao

[spice spire]

My sister in Christ this is what you wear to thanksgiving 🤨

Venthyr set is peak rogue gaming minus helm, that was weak

[uncut echo]

Omfg

Imagine, I'd wear that shit everywhere

[neat plank]

I hare the pointy boots

[spice spire]

[neat plank]

Hate

[spice spire]

I can agree to that

[royal lantern]

i thought rogues have no boots

[spice spire]

My brother

[uncut echo]

Let me live out my aristocratic vampire fantasies

[spice spire]

You’re just giving out that for free?

[royal lantern]

cus its either a degenerate belf that is going barefoot, a degenerate like me that plays a uwu race, or wannabe tryhard that went troll

[gusty mirage]

Kano Eye Tmog best mog don’t at me

[spice spire]

@gusty mirage

[uncut echo]

Morality police inc

[spice spire]

Ur lit

[gusty mirage]

Bro the Kano eye is ELITE

[royal lantern]

NO.FUN.ALLOWED

[spice spire]

[whole bay]

Is blindside that important?

[spice spire]

Blindside really good

[whole bay]

Fuck haha

[neat plank]

Try simming some other talent, maybe its not

[whole bay]

Its just that it adds a buttons on my very long action bar

[dawn jolt]

I believe there is an addon to make mut and ambush same button

[neat plank]

Then try to just put it into imp poisons instead, probably wont make you much worse

[whole bay]

Okipoki thanks !

[strange python]

It's so clunky

[royal lantern]

just make 2 keybinds

and make the keybind the same position you have ambush for outlaw and shadowstrike for sub

[fluid dust]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz

[whole bay]

Shadowstrike replaces backstab in shadowdance

[royal lantern]

you still want seperate keybinds for it

[subtle tundra]

exsang as a 3 minute isnt as hated

though i really liked it

[strange python]

Also realized FAQ build differs from fuus build

[subtle tundra]

as 45 seconds

[royal lantern]

3min exsang is fine

and i say that as the most annoying exsang hater in this channel

[subtle tundra]

it was the only reason our st was good in m+ 🙂

on its the worst of the 3 rogue specs

with the kb build

[royal lantern]

who

[alpine latch]

I did enjoy hitting 60k+ in m0s as Sin on trash. When I had CDs I was beating the outlaw rogue in my group

But now I'm torn on what to play - do I stay Sin?

[royal lantern]

i mean, that didnt change

lol

[trim zinc]

Fuu doesnt have cttc

[alpine latch]

No, but my ST on bosses and prio definitely changed

[gusty mirage]

[royal lantern]

it even sims lower that way

fuu spreading missinformation

coding problem

[whole bay]

I mean, i still hit 100k on big trash pull, i dont mind playing the underdog. If you play better you can outdps anything

[strange python]

Weirdly. I'm with varas for once

[subtle tundra]

🫃

[onyx wind]

does nightstalker still snapshot with rupture?

[subtle tundra]

No

[onyx wind]

since when

[strange python]

I just don't like Blizzards refusal to really shake up metas all that much. It's tiring having outlaw always be the m+ spec, warlock always be raid god, etc

[subtle tundra]

Since df

[onyx wind]

:(

[fair ingot]

any infos out there on what the best crafted gear is for our sparks?

[subtle tundra]

Why can survival get nerfed and buffed as compensation but other specs cant

[strange python]

It's in the faqs but couldn't hurt to wait till raid week

[outer widget]

Sub’s been the prominent spec for m+ most of SL?

[strange python]

Fire mage can't go 1 day as weak without getting buffs but sin went half of 9.0 as unplayable

[fair ingot]

@strange python oh thanks didnt see it there under tips 😄

[royal lantern]

imagine wanting to play arcane or frost for once

just for blizzard to go "wait what? fire is not the best mage spec for everything? 10%buff on all abilitys" again

[oblique jackal]

Anyone have an ELV UI profile they recommend?

[tame slate]

I've accepted that the balancing will always be crazy. I just play what I want since I'm not a world first raider

[strange python]

I mean I guess. But I get why it's frustrating for a lot of people too

You look at warlock raid performance and think "man that'd be fun for a tier" and it's always just warlocks again

[slate scarab]

Usually when there is a nerf this big to a critical talent they compensate by adding damage elsewhere in the spec. It's a shame they didn't do that.

[dense cedar]

No mention of the perma de-stealth (unless it was already fixed)

[royal lantern]

its not even de-stealth, healers cant drink at all

[dense cedar]

wha

[royal lantern]

it also perma cancles that

[dense cedar]

weird

odd thing to not address asap lol

[royal lantern]

i mean, they probs know it and work on a fix

that stuff takes time

[dense cedar]

I wonder waht the issue is

Fake combat lock

[tame slate]

Part of the problem is that the encounter itself plays into what damage profile is going to do the best. Locks seem to be able to perform in many encounters without taking a hit to their output

[misty holly]

After using it all week I was just started to get used to Exanguinate.

[alpine latch]

You can run this on droptimizer right now

[royal lantern]

because they are a ranged dps(in a game that heavy favors ranged by default) with 3 specs that all have very different dmg patterns

and always atleast 2 of them are also tuned very high

[alpine latch]

@subtle tundra do you think you'll be staying Sin for keys? Or will you go for Outlaw/Sub?

[dense cedar]

afflock and destro are fun

[dense cedar]

Varas is playing Feral

[alpine latch]

wut

[tame slate]

Yeah I was gonna say melee in general has been shafted for some time

[royal lantern]

varas will probs take a toaster bath bevor he plays outlaw mate

[subtle tundra]

I'm training sub this week. Will start out as assa but if it looks like we can't get 20 with me as assa I will swap

[red tinsel]

I hate, but learned to love both exsang and thistle

I will miss 45s exsang

[dense cedar]

I will never love Thistle Tea

[candid token]

Do we know which spec will be good on each boss? Or will we need to wait till release to really know

[alpine latch]

Fair - I really liked Sub back in SoFO. It was stupid easy in keys too - I should look up the difference

[outer cairn]

I need that. I'm sure its expensive

[red tinsel]

I currently like Thistle as our best Capstone, and hate ER the most

[royal lantern]

i hate tea simply because of how stupid it is as a talent, it feels like pure Classic nostalgia bait that should have not left the alpha

[dense cedar]

DM on sub feels kinda wack tbh

[red tinsel]

Just because of theming, if they'd have a reskin for ER for each spec, instead of Kyrian thingy... just make the slash red/green instead of blue

[outer cairn]

Cev's profile still works and keeps your bleeds in order

[red tinsel]

The mastery buff helped me get over it, but yeah, I'd rather we had different capstones

[dense cedar]

odd reason to dislike it

With RC it plays very well with Sin

[subtle tundra]

Sub just has much better dmg than assa and can freely soothe as it's raging first week.

[red tinsel]

I like the class fantasy, most Covenant abilities feel off for Rogue, even though the effects are great

[dense cedar]

Shiv gaming punished again

[subtle tundra]

The unloved m+ spec

[red tinsel]

Why wouldn't Assa be able to shiv like Sub for raging?

[subtle tundra]

Kb coming up? Oops have to hold shiv

For raging

[misty holly]

tbh if it were more mastery buff, less energy I would be thrilled lol

[red tinsel]

Oh got it

[neat plank]

You know what I like about assa.. that our default m+ spec has very good single target dmg cause of kingsbane + zoldyck + blindside. I hate it when you have to cripple your single target to be good at clearing trash

[misty holly]

Like 60 energy over 6 seconds, and gain a pile of mastery.

That sounds good

[dense cedar]

even without raging there are plenty of enemies in DF that u wanna soothe

[subtle tundra]

It had good st cause of exsang. No longer the case

[dense cedar]

Time for them to boost Rupture damage by 8%

[royal lantern]

reminder that varas LOVES to overreact btw

[neat plank]

you think so? still looks good to me ;O

[quiet forge]

Sorry for generic question but is assa going to be the way to go for raids even after nerf?

[dense cedar]

Ret paladin

[subtle tundra]

It's the worst of the 3 rogue specs(if you play kb build)

[misty holly]

We're not even at the first raid tier right now - if future past expansions are anything to go by we will be flooded with energy from haste by 10.3 patch and thistle tea energy will be useless. Maybe even by 10.2.

As it is, DTB spec feels pretty flooded already

[hollow escarp]

Still good spec, yes.

[dense cedar]

if future expansions are anything to go by

psychic powers

[misty holly]

haha

[royal lantern]

we litearlly try to avoid haste as much as possible mate

lol

[misty holly]

I meant past

[outer cairn]

Trying to catch up. Think I saw craft the Primal Molten Shortblade with the Bronze Wraplings as an OH weapon?

[little forge]

The only real cost tbh is the primal chaos / spark, the rest of the mats are sub 100k generally 😛

[outer cairn]

Good to know. So does that Bronze wrappling thing make the weapon an off hand only weapon?

[little forge]

Don't believe they should, but they say "your spells have a chance to"

Do we know if they actually proc for us?

The reason a profile might be using it in off hand is crafted weps only go to 418 while you can get a 424 main hand

[gusty mirage]

^

[frank ocean]

They do

[outer cairn]

That makes sense to me. I was look at the FAQ and didn't see anything about what to craft and saw talks about it. Makes sense to use my spark for that, hopefully as high as it can go or upgrade it down the road.

[frank ocean]

I wouldn't spend a spark til I got my first vault at the earliest tbh

[little forge]

I need more primal chaos - is there a good way to farm it ? As far as im aware the best way is just to do rares

[outer cairn]

So Primal Molten Shortblade, with Crit/Mastery, and Bronze Wrapplings seems to be the best crafted item for us?

[royal lantern]

you get more sparks mate

and dont need them for re-crafting

there is really no reason to go paranoid with them

[frank ocean]

Keys drop mountains of them

[little forge]

Thats good news

I plan to do a lot of keys 🙂

[strange python]

Do we know what level key is needed for infusions?

[outer cairn]

Yeah Primal Chaos is supposed to drop everywhere from what I read. It's the other two to increase ilvl that are harder

[strange python]

Afaik you fuse primal chaos with primal something to get a primal infusion

I forgot the name of the second thing. Suspected to be raid mythic drop. Don't know what key level they drop at

[frank ocean]

16s were dropping the highest one

[outer cairn]

right. there is the primal infusion and this the super one or w/e its called

[little forge]

I have no idea how hard 16's will be early on, but seems like a good source of some good gear early

[strange python]

Theoretically getting a 418 neck and OH by week 2 could be pretty big

[thorn crater]

sigh why are darkmoon decks so bad im sad

[strange python]

They're always bad

[little forge]

Do we know if the storms for the neck pattern are comming out with the raid?

[strange python]

I don't think they've confirmed anything but it seems likely

Classic blizzard responsiveness

[royal lantern]

in bfa, the anchor deck was really good for uldir

[strange python]

I played boomie in uldir :/

Needed the taloc trinket and uhhh I forget what else

[royal lantern]

👉 🚪

druid players

actually disgusting

[strange python]

Boomie was too strong for ghuun

[outer cairn]

Gonna check on getting that weapon crafted today. Be good for MH for Sin or OH for Outlaw for the time being. Game has given me 2x 379 maces, but no daggers.

[royal lantern]

you where weak

[thin gate]

guys does some1 know the timer for "Penumbrus" the rare @ the obsidian hyber spawn

i camped there a whole lifetime only saw this guy 1 time yet and a mate got a 385 ring from him

[pale plank]

Lmao are you me? Bcz I got 2x 379 maces too. And which weapon are u talking about

[outer cairn]

The Primal Molten Shortblade

[pale plank]

🔥

[outer cairn]

I mean, I have a spark, no use in not using it. I get that can save it, but shit can be upgraded later anyways and don't want to craft into a tier slot.

[gusty mirage]

you can also change embellishments when recrafting btw

in case anyone is worried about that

[royal lantern]

^

you can change everything

just need a crafter that can do it

or be a gigachad that can do it himself

[gusty mirage]

threw some fangs on the daggie

until the bronze wrappings are available

[royal lantern]

i didnt threw anything on them

cus i cant make t5 yet

[gusty mirage]

I had shit luck with weapons

[royal lantern]

so just using t4 for now

[gusty mirage]

wasn't about to roll into raid week with my lowest ilvl being my weapon

so I just crafted the dagger

it's only 3 qual so its 386

but whatevs

can always recraft to higher

[royal lantern]

ye, my dagger is 389

and 376 for offhand

could re-craft it, but w/e

[gusty mirage]

369 oh

[normal mist]

What's the biggest ilvl dagger any of us was able to create?

[gusty mirage]

if you get max lvl dagger blacksmith

you can get 392 I think?

i forget what seli crafted for himself

[thorn crater]

isnt raid week next week?

[neat plank]

even resto?

[royal lantern]

392 is max yes

[gusty mirage]

yea

but not like I'm rolling with any other rogues

[royal lantern]

you can get it by going full into the ABSOLUTLY NOT BROKEN inspiration tree for blacksmith

[gusty mirage]

lol

if I didn't have old unobtainable recipes

I would've dropped engi

and LWing

tbh

[royal lantern]

i just dropped engi lmao

and put my jeeves/reaves into the bank

[proper tapir]

In favor of what?

[sour wraith]

Saving engi in hopes the brez will sell once m+ opens

[royal lantern]

bs

was always mining+engi, just changed into mining+bs

[worldly furnace]

primal molten shortblade i think

[gusty mirage]

well yes

because that's the purple craftable dagger

[onyx wind]

can u use raid matrix on spark gear when recrafting?

[royal lantern]

yes

[gusty mirage]

p sure spark gear requires the drop from raid to raise ilvl

but yeah

[onyx wind]

so theres no point in waiting with crafting dagger ye?

just go boom boom

[gusty mirage]

unless you're tight on gold, absolutely not

• we get another spark next week

[royal lantern]

^

[onyx wind]

ye

[royal lantern]

you only need the spark once

after that? you can let somone re-craft it

if they have enough skill for high ilvl ofc

[thin gate]

i cry with blue daggers too

381 ilvl

[gusty mirage]

yea and recrafting will start to guarantee higher qual as the season goes on

[onyx wind]

is the bs embellishment unlocked?

[thin gate]

with 356 daggers

[gusty mirage]

the bronze wrappings drop from raid

[onyx wind]

buy pvp ones

[gusty mirage]

but you can embellish with the LWing one

that adds phys dam to auto attacks

and then add the bronze wrappings when you recraft

[thin gate]

@onyx wind what ilvl are they?

[onyx wind]

366

u can swap embellishments as u please right?

[gusty mirage]

yeppers

its actually a really cool system

[onyx wind]

unless its the item itself

[thin gate]

im thinking about getting a crafted dagger

[onyx wind]

ye i like it a lot

[thin gate]

382+

[onyx wind]

im gonna get matrix tomorrow and get 382 trust

[gusty mirage]

I would tbh, by the time you need to craft something to fill a spot you didn't get from raid you'll have another spark anyway

and weapon is always our biggest upgrade

[royal lantern]

^

[onyx wind]

ye i think the embellishments make certain crafts bis regardless of what pieces u are 'missing'

[royal lantern]

+like, small weapon bs means you can make weapons for MANY people in your raid

[onyx wind]

they are relatively safe

[gusty mirage]

yea

[subtle tundra]

It's gonna take a while until my lw gets good enough for the wrists

[gusty mirage]

leveling LWing

has been the most infuriating fucking thing ever

[subtle tundra]

Yea idk what to do about it

[gusty mirage]

• that dude

next to the bench

[subtle tundra]

😐

[gusty mirage]

who won't shut the fuck up

[onyx wind]

ive been outsourcing everything

[subtle tundra]

FUCK HIM

I fucking fuck fuck him

[subtle tundra]

Guild had everyone do something

[onyx wind]

rough

i made like 12 mil off jc early so i can sit back and relax

[royal lantern]

the only thing that sucks

stuck at bs lvl63

and can only get higher with orders

[gusty mirage]

you can get some skill ups from renown recipes

but some of them require like

20 fucking renown

[royal lantern]

OR wasting 5points

and spend like 2million on hammers

[subtle tundra]

Wtf can you even do with jc

I swear I can't do shit

[gusty mirage]

giga neck

[royal lantern]

rings necks and gems

like always

[subtle tundra]

Yea from the raid

[onyx wind]

get pvp ring drop day 1

[gusty mirage]

and the fancy primary stat gems

[onyx wind]

sell them for 30k each

[subtle tundra]

Raid isn't out

[onyx wind]

sell 500 a day

[subtle tundra]

Ah

[gusty mirage]

just fish for recipes

and make 250k in 1 day

like I did

[subtle tundra]

I just wasted gold on jc

[gusty mirage]

I got recipe drops I already "inspired" to myself

and sold them for 100k

crit food and mastery food recipes

ez money

[subtle tundra]

Well I should have gone full into prospecting

To get r3s

But I wanted to level jc not knowing the only way to do so is through some jewels nobody wants yet

[royal lantern]

i made 0 money with BS

all gold comes from mining

and thats like, dunno, 300k?

but thats actually rich for me

[subtle tundra]

Skinning sucks for me

[vestal wren]

def. worth it

[thin gate]

exactly what i thought, but what ilvl is currently "good" for a crafted weapon

is it 382? or are there ppl who can make 385+ already

[royal lantern]

392is cap

only get that if you know 100%what to skill+rng proc

most crafters that put all into 1 tree can make a 389 item rn

[thin gate]

i c, so i go for someone who has a Quality 4 100%

[bitter sphinx]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange python]

Y'all making money?! Only way I have ever made money is sales

[royal lantern]

selling gathering stuff

profession itself?

no

[strange python]

I'm shoving it in gbank for crafters who aren't even crafting 🙂

[royal lantern]

i could craft everything with 0 costs, thats my only gain

so like, pushing bs cost me nothing

[strange python]

I'm legit sad our B's is going swords

I don't actually think crafted swords are good for anyone compared to drops

[royal lantern]

i mean

thats just ~25 points away from maxing out small blades

[azure bronze]

What nodes did you specialize in 👀 ?

[strange python]

I guess but he hasn't even started and missed the weekly so he could level alts

[thorn crater]

ive spent like 4hours fishing and this shit doesnt go higher than 35

am i doing something wrong? ive never fished before but im forced now because of the fuckin tuskar rep

[strange python]

Lol skinning knowledge is a myth

[gusty mirage]

just sold the cooking recipes I fished up

tbh

the crit one was going for 100k

[boreal stirrup]

is mystic touch or chaos brand better for assa?

[dusty zenith]

RIP exsanguinate 2022

can I get an F for respects

[strange python]

No

[spice spire]

I beg

[strange python]

Time to change channel name back

[royal lantern]

chaos brand

almost no spec deals only physical dmg

[strange python]

Warriors

[royal lantern]

iirc its only outlaw/fury/arms

[strange python]

Cringe class

[royal lantern]

everyone else does either full magical, or physical/magical mixed

[viscid spear]

Check deez
But honestly why do people come here to be doomers without taking a step back and researching first?

[dusty zenith]

Why do you assume we dont research first

and start labeling?

[spice spire]

Because you didn’t click the shiny button to check the faq or the pins

But reactions are fine

[royal lantern]

@strange python red is small weapons(aka daggers/fist weapons) blue is long blades(swords/axe/glaives) you can litearlly finish 1 and take the next one without big problems

[spice spire]

It’s just I thought they’d end by now

[strange python]

He hasn't even started leveling it yet and missed the weekly last week

[spice spire]

It’s a large nerf, but like. Shows you how busted it truly was

[strange python]

Also he might be going 2hand swords he didn't reply when I asked

[royal lantern]

easy fix

be EU

and its still current week

[strange python]

I'm just salty that half of us focused on doing our mains and the other half did alts

[alpine latch]

I've made about 400k selling profession tools

[viscid spear]

[strange python]

The blue ones or green ones

[alpine latch]

green

I can't make blues

[dark token]

With what, eng?

[alpine latch]

I transferred for a CE trial and I only brought over 50k. I'm sitting at 850k now

Leatherworking

[strange python]

Hey with whispyr's new Dtb build in faqs maybe it is read

Dead

[spice spire]

I mean

It’s still not dead

Either way

Dead is like

[royal lantern]

why would you copy a build from a sub main?

[spice spire]

Sepsis

[royal lantern]

and yeha, exsang is not dead

[strange python]

[royal lantern]

its just not "take it everywhere, all the time, no matter the situatiuon, and more value then capstones" anymore

[spice spire]

DTb build good. We like variety

[strange python]

10.1 tier set bonus: exsanginuate cooldowns now reduced based on how many ticks take place during its application.

[royal lantern]

i mean, was somewhat stupid when exsang, a pure ST talent had so much value for m+

when m+ is 90%aoe

[alpine latch]

Yes and no

It gave us prio damage

Now we don't have nearly as much

[subtle tundra]

It's OK sub is still good

[royal lantern]

varas

[gusty mirage]

hello @spice spire which embellishments will help me to get bitches?

[royal lantern]

🙂

[alpine latch]

Lambo?

[royal lantern]

embellish DN

[subtle tundra]

Deez nuts

[strange python]

Mullah

[gusty mirage]

damn the assassination CFs are slackin

maybe time to demote

[subtle tundra]

Make me a cf

I will stop dooming

[spice spire]

Cock

[subtle tundra]

I will say the facts unbiased

[spice spire]

[strange python]

Make me a cf and I promise to only moderately abuse it

[gusty mirage]

[viscid spear]

🔬

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/no-let-me-think-nope-no-way-hmm-no-gif-22904160

[royal lantern]

if you become CF, you need to stop playing wow

thats the rules

[gusty mirage]

no

that's orange

[royal lantern]

no w8, that was shadowblades

my bad

[gusty mirage]

just wait until @rigid mango gets me into league

[rigid mango]

Go disc free coaching?

[gusty mirage]

I haven't touched league since beta

it's gonna be ROUGH

[subtle tundra]

I told myself I wouldn't play df If I got a gf. Look at me go

[royal lantern]

zine be like

be active for 1 1/2 patches
get promoted to mod
stop playing wow and never says a word again

[rigid mango]

Listen to me u get dia within 4 months mbe?

[subtle tundra]

Maybe I shouldve tried cause of df

[royal lantern]

[rigid mango]

Was active for like entirity of bfa but ok

[royal lantern]

time is washed up man

corona fucked my time perception

[rigid mango]

Fucked everyones

[gusty mirage]

time to bring back the iron fist of zine

[subtle tundra]

Buddy even I managed to get diamond it's piss rank

[strange python]

i microdosed the entire time. im chillin

[gusty mirage]

these shadowlands babies don't even know

[rigid mango]

Ye no shit I’d be able to make anyone dia within a couple of months of starting

[rigid mango]

[gusty mirage]

once upon a time, zine bullied me out of here

because I was saying dumb shit

[rigid mango]

[subtle tundra]

I wouldn't be able to get it again. Can't play more than 2 games a day

[rigid mango]

I am wholesome now

[subtle tundra]

Shit game

[gusty mirage]

you were wholesome back then too

you fixed my opener

and I became a lil pumper

[rigid mango]

[royal lantern]

lil because your dmg was so low?

[strange python]

shoot my opener at 157bw is 200kg assaaa

[gusty mirage]

lil because that's what your dad calls me after I'm done blowing out his back

[rigid mango]

Game is so fun tho? Can’t play often either but can still piss chill high elo

[celest helm]

I see more than 1 m+ build for keys, do we have numbers on which one performs higher?

[dusty zenith]

yikes cringe

[royal lantern]

not sure if thats an insult or self-owning man

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-por-que-no-los-dos-yey-gif-15089379

[royal lantern]

i dont speak french

[subtle tundra]

Meh this is what happens to me when I have played the game for a long time, just gets boring

[gusty mirage]

sorry english is my 2nd language

[royal lantern]

oui

[subtle tundra]

Also league made me toxic to my friends so I didn't want to play

I'd rather not play than be mean

[rigid mango]

Ye being toxic to friends bec of league is hella cringe

I’m only toxic to randoms

[spice spire]

You could also not be toxic

Gamer Challenge level: impossible

[rigid mango]

I’m barely toxic anymore ok

[heady merlin]

I am a top laner so I became toxic

Poppy main

[rigid mango]

Euw decent elo is just rope ping spam nowadays

[heady merlin]

They have such a restrict chat now you really can't say anything anymore

[royal lantern]

didnt play league for over 5 years now, but some thing never change huh?

died once in lane cus they do a stupid engage-> spam ff15 cus THEY are the protagonist that need to carry

[shrewd night]

Bruh, must be real hard to not say dumb shit in chat man. I have sympathy, or sorry that happened. Whatever works.

[prisma cypress]

is fuu's spreadsheet updated to reflect the nerf to exsanguinate?

[spice spire]

Something something #league-of-legends watch hataro mald. Something something don’t get koffing mad

[spice spire]

Yes

[prisma cypress]

ok

i thought so but it still says last updated 26 Nov

@vestal wren if you care lol

[strange python]

pretty much outing yourself as a bigger piece of shit thant league players

[royal lantern]

are you really insulting a mod rn when he makes a dumb comment?

[strange python]

and? isnt that how its supposed to work?

[vestal wren]

the spreadsheet is updated for the nerf

[strange python]

oh yeah rogue discord

[vestal wren]

i forgot to change the date

[royal lantern]

fuu, quick question

is there a reason why the spreadsheet apparently doesnt use CttC...?

[vestal wren]

it uses the best simming combination

[neat plank]

probably because thats what simmed the highest

[vestal wren]

but iirc there is a cttc option that sims within low margin

[gusty mirage]

talent that direct impacts damage sims higher than a QoL talent?

[royal lantern]

i mean, you are "wasting" cp on SnD without it

dunno how big the CttC gain actually is

[gusty mirage]

are you though

[shrewd night]

Orange man toxic

[gusty mirage]

which orange man?

[vestal wren]

again

[gusty mirage]

[vestal wren]

i think there is a combination within low margin

i can add a cttc option too

like for outlaw and KS

[gusty mirage]

if any of you drop cttc in m+ I'm shaming you

[neat plank]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz

[gusty mirage]

and if its tryan

I'm flaming you

[earnest remnant]

shame me

[spice spire]

What if it’s me

[gusty mirage]

@earnest remnant I cant ily

[neat plank]

fuu, thx for maintaining this, it's so helpful 🙂

[gusty mirage]

you already get flamed, idk what to tell you brother

[royal lantern]

oxi can flame me whenever he wants

[spice spire]

Bless up

[royal lantern]

[rigid mango]

Yeah I’m toxic to people and that’s a flaw of mine, what’s your point?

[shrewd night]

Waiting for rares. Waiting for tv delivery. I can stay here all night at this rate

[onyx wind]

I think that was his point

[rigid mango]

Coolio good we settled that

Productive comment

[strange python]

just in general youd want to be nicer to new people in your life as you never know what relationships you might start. as a discord mod the first thing I see when I join is one of the top dudes being a cunt then saying shit likke "im toxic to new people" really makes me wanna stick around

@rigid mango you too bub

[thorn fjord]

Yikes

[oblique jackal]

!Fuu

[prisma monolith]

Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz

[rigid mango]

I never said I’m toxic to new people, you wont see me be toxic here. We were joking between friends. I am regretably toxic in a comp environment sometimes in an entirely diff videogame tho for sure 🙂

Either way, feel free to call me out if you think I get toxic in here, goes for anyone

[shrewd night]

CAN THIS TURBO RARE SPAWN ALREADY?

[rigid mango]

Hope you enjoy your stays to all that read 🙂

[onyx wind]

scav?

that mf doesnt exist i think

[shrewd night]

Who?

[royal lantern]

i asked

[spice spire]

I asked

[shrewd night]

Thats nice. Maybe whoever this scav person is inherited that trait from my dad.

[spice spire]

Damn

[dusty zenith]

noob question... What does dungeon slice mean vs four,eight targets on the sim sheet

[royal lantern]

dungeon slice simulates an entire dungeon run

[shrewd night]

Its a mixture of all target amounts like as if it was a dungeon. Including one boss battle.

[royal lantern]

aka boss fights, downtimes bettwen packs, bigger pulls etc....

[dusty zenith]

got ya thank you

[royal lantern]

4-8 targets is just "you hit 4-8 targets all the time"

[dusty zenith]

so for M+ would it be better to judge the dungeon slice build vs that 4-8 targets

[shrewd night]

Youd only deviate from dungeon slice if you are checking very specific scenarios

[gusty mirage]

^

[misty holly]

I've watched enough MDI to know that you should be pulling at least 4-8 targets onto the boss with you.

[spice spire]

Real

[marble hemlock]

You're toxic.

L

[spice spire]

So are you, L bozo

[gusty mirage]

smh

elitism in assassination

the old guard bullying young zine

[marble hemlock]

"young zine" is a pleonasm

[gusty mirage]

is that a real word

or did nova step on your keyboard

neat I learned a new word

ty seli

[daring imp]

[With weekly restarts] Exsanguinate cooldown increased to 3 minutes (was 45 seconds) and bleed effect magnitude reduced to 80% (was 100%).

was it uber good and i was just missing out when not picking it or what? o_o'

[spice spire]

Yes

It was capstone level

And even post nerf, it’s fairly competitive

[subtle tundra]

Youd think the lawyer knows basic words

[echo yoke]

combined with deathmark was BUSTED...but 3 min is still excessive

[spice spire]

Considering it still competes

It’s very much not excessive

[gusty mirage]

you'd think a stinky person would shower more

but here we are varas

[echo yoke]

3 min with no CD reduce perks...i think its a little rough 🙂

[subtle tundra]

I shower daily

[gusty mirage]

it's still 1.5% better than other talents at 3 minutes

[subtle tundra]

Pissy boy

[gusty mirage]

how is it a little rough

people underestimate how good it was

[echo yoke]

i pvp...i knew EXACTLY how good lol

[gusty mirage]

whatever you say stinks

[fallen charm]

it says 3 minutes, but everyone know it's really 4 minutes if the fight doesn't take longer than 7 minutes

[royal lantern]

inc:a raid full of sylvanas lenght fights

[gusty mirage]

I'll ban you

I swear to God

[subtle tundra]

More movie time

[gusty mirage]

unthink that RIGHT NOW

[royal lantern]

[fallen charm]

[gray crest]

It's oxis favorite fight

[gusty mirage]

Roujin quit his rogue to play a mage

[viscid spear]

Ya mutha buys you Mega Blox instead of Legos

[gray crest]

Right up there with anduin

[royal lantern]

its everyones favourite fights

[gusty mirage]

he's a traitor

[gusty mirage]

the fuck did you say to me

[royal lantern]

WIPING IN P3 CUS SOMONE CANT WALK WITH THE ARROW

so much FUN

[gusty mirage]

you raided with skip?

[echo yoke]

you guys going with ur own M+ builds or icy/wowheads version?

[viscid spear]

Tuxedos instead of Oreos

[wicked vector]

I'd prefer them knocking it down to 60% and making it a 2 minute to sync up tbh

[spice spire]

Ash also forsook us for mage

[viscid spear]

[gusty mirage]

wtf are tuxedos

[gray crest]

Thats a top tier insult

[royal lantern]

icyveins/wowhead is litearlly writen by whispyr, who is the most active mod here

[gusty mirage]

is this something I'm too middle class to understand?

[viscid spear]

The "oreos" ya mutha buys you

[gusty mirage]

don't you live in Jersey?

[echo yoke]

@royal lantern ...k so ya'll using that or ur own teaked versions? lol

[viscid spear]

Yeah, wutaboutit

[spice spire]

IV is written by Seli

[spice spire]

#assassination-faq

[royal lantern]

sometimes maybe 1-2 talents different if the raidfight/dungeon has some specific requirments?

[spice spire]

Because whispyr looks into more shit than I’ll ever think about

[stiff galleon]

Wished they had nerfed exsanguinate into irrelevance we have enough cds already

[echo yoke]

@spice spire not following

[royal lantern]

like dunno, "oh zhis fight doesnt need CD, lets take it out and take something else instead"

[spice spire]

That mf looked into LBE in SL for like 20 hours

[fallen charm]

only 7 bruv

[spice spire]

It’s a solid guide with a little more up to date info than the written guides because written guides take coding/more time to edit

[echo yoke]

@royal lantern yea i'm bout the same. i figured my own one out and its very sim to wowhead

[spice spire]

So it’s always a great place to start

[echo yoke]

@spice spire good to kno 🙂

[stiff galleon]

Meanwhile Evoker has like 7 total buttons lol

[spice spire]

They have almost as much buttons as we have CDs 🙂

[echo yoke]

also feel like voker is more meh after prepatch. anyone else get that vibe at all?

[fallen charm]

I was pissed cause we can't take Tricks of the trade without losing dps/mobility, but now I'm glad, cause I don't have more keybinds for it

[echo yoke]

i havent wished for tricks once yet. least this far in

[candid quarry]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz

[fallen charm]

I had to erase the muscle memory from pressing it every pull

[oblique jackal]

in the DTB build you dont use SBS

[subtle tundra]

You do?

I rember you do

Oh in m+ you dont

Wtf

[vestal wren]

that's a lot of emotes

[thorn fjord]

ded

[rigid mango]

No u noob

[whole grotto]

leveling rogue now....how close in performance are the 2 M+ builds in the FAQ? I only saw the KB+Carnage build on the wowhead guide, so not sure when DTB would be better or worse

[vale shore]

so is exanguinate dead now that is 20% less powerful and over 3 times as long a CD?

[vestal wren]

it is still good

[vale shore]

just 20% less good and far less often?

[vestal wren]

it possibly gets skipped in non single target

but depends

!fuu has sims

[prisma monolith]

Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz

[alpine latch]

It was a 6% nerf and Sin is still more than likely the highest ST spec

Albeit much closer now than before

[vestal wren]

sin/sub are close

with crafted gear

[alpine latch]

yeah

[vestal wren]

outlaw quite a bit ahead

*behind

[alpine latch]

I was going to say...

[vale shore]

I prefer the dagger specs anyway, I almost never have played outlaw

[alpine latch]

Outlaw is fine. It's just not as good as Combat was

[vale shore]

blue post said they might actually replace exsanguinate in a future patch

[alpine latch]

Sure, but a blue post also said we were getting daily WQs back

And that lasted all of 19 minutes

Don't worry about what might happen

[vestal wren]

outlaw seems good for multi target

[subtle tundra]

As long as they have bf they can't do the best st

[alpine latch]

Yeah, which is understandable

[vale shore]

yeah, outlaw is the cleave specialist

[alpine latch]

I think they have the best 2-3T cleave but I haven't looked in a day or three

Now, what really confused me (because I haven't researched it) is why Sub does less ST damage with 2 dance charges than it does with 1

[dusty zenith]

cause its Sub

[vale shore]

what are you giving up to get the second charge?

[alpine latch]

Shit if I know - I just said I didn't research it

[vale shore]

but that would be the answer

[alpine latch]

I just thought it was funny looking at the spreadsheet

Because you'd think a second charge would be better

[granite widget]

you lose cold blood / lethality

[vale shore]

not if the talent you are getting instead reads "do a lot more damage"

[alpine latch]

Ahh, that explains it

[vale shore]

but I prefer sub with two charges