assassination

[balmy condor]

and it's like well

you should

but if you're in 27 target aoe for the next 35+ seconds and there's a boss coming up and you just dispelled an enrage and don't have shiv then hold it I guess idfk

and I can't teach that

cause it would require a fucking encyclopedias worth of situations and endless simming

and it's easier to just be like "here's a general idea, if you think your situation means you do it differently, be my guest"

teach people how swim

[subtle tundra]

Wdym you cant play for me

[balmy condor]

not jump off a 30 foot diving board with a triple frontflip

[subtle tundra]

Whispyr level check?

[balmy condor]

bro

my server wasn't stable until like 40 minutes ago

and then 5 minutes ago the server restarted

[subtle tundra]

So.. 60

[balmy condor]

61

[subtle tundra]

😠

[balmy condor]

but yeh

[subtle tundra]

Oh

[balmy condor]

basically

[subtle tundra]

You're huge

[balmy condor]

I got out of the first area

and then server restart

takes like 15 seconds to complete quests

and 10 seconds to loot

[subtle tundra]

I don't miss launch day

I'm an old man now

[fleet anchor]

Yeah I managed to hearth out of my crashing/chain DC realm about an hour ago, got into a loot/quest lag but not crashy shard for about the last hour, now the restart

good times 😄

[outer cairn]

getting all the dragon relics is pro

[balmy condor]

[dark token]

just hit 70 in time

[dark token]

really? i skipped em all

didnt need em while leveling

and i spammed vigor

[neat plank]

wait how long is the shutdown for

is it just a reset

[outer cairn]

Didn't take to long and just makes flying around easier

[balmy condor]

Welcome to Area52 OE we hope you enjoy your stay

[dark token]

actually yeah i think this is eu reset time

[outer cairn]

ZJ hasn't had any issues I'm aware of. Except for all of getting ported back to the gy in Durotar on the first zep at the beginning lol

[pale plank]

i am in zuljin and i have been able to play

just supper laggy tho

[outer cairn]

yeah its had a few spikes

but no issues really

[pale plank]

its playable, but i am getting lots of lag right now

[subtle tundra]

Who was world first 70?

[balmy condor]

Your old ass mom

[subtle tundra]

😴

She was sleeping

[balmy condor]

You can age in your sleep

[subtle tundra]

😠

[manic pebble]

Sin is finally better than outlaw

[outer cairn]

feels great

[pale plank]

is it? not 70 yet

i was planning to switch from outlaw to sin at 70

[ionic cave]

any guides for talents when leveling as sin?

[manic pebble]

idk but it feels great playing sin now

I was leveling as outlaw as well

[outer cairn]

can probably just go the ST KB build and be fine. What I'm doing and not have any problems

[fleet anchor]

Blizzard trying the "did you turn it on and off again" 😛

Didn't really help though lol

[outer cairn]

delete your inferface, cache and wtf folder

[neat plank]

great, 1 hour of maintenance, am i supposed to go to bed now

I guess I have to

[quaint sequoia]

1 hour maintenance on release night wtf

someone should get fired

[neat plank]

even on wotlk release in 2008 this wasnt the case 🙂

[pale plank]

finally the lag left for me

[dark token]

you mean when the servers shut off?

[balmy condor]

Lovely

Also ER combo points aren’t extending snd properly with CttC again

[subtle tundra]

🤯

[mortal scaffold]

!Vendetta

is vendetta GONE? am i dumb

aight im looking through the chat history. i guess its gone

[green harbor]

[balmy condor]

[dark token]

[pale plank]

bruh this lag!!!!

[little ginkgo]

someone said that assa feels nice to play can this be possible the dream

[balmy condor]

I mean

you're asking assa players if assa feels nice

[subtle tundra]

[royal lantern]

counterpoint: exsang

[vestal wren]

welcome to day zero Dragonfligth experience 😛

[midnight mist]

Wdym again? Did they fix that at some point

[balmy condor]

yes

[midnight mist]

They didn't for gm

[balmy condor]

unlucky

[royal lantern]

just Roll better

[tough swift]

Every time I level up, my poisons and wep stones fall off lol

[thin portal]

Looks like I came back just in time for DF release huh

[oblique jackal]

Can anyone care to explain how to add the anima combo points as a weakaura?

[neat plank]

why can we silence 3 mobs with garrote, seems like a bug

should be only the one hit from stealth

[gusty mirage]

it's not a bug

[next edge]

Leveling has been rly cool

and I lvoe all the new zones

[subtle tundra]

how long would it take a scrub to level

[slim hamlet]

Stuck in class doing midterm assignments

[subtle tundra]

without server issues

[slim hamlet]

Sadge

[subtle tundra]

(wednesday gamer)

[brazen zodiac]

haha

[gusty mirage]

like 5-6 hours

[subtle tundra]

huh

[gusty mirage]

assuming you don't try to finish all the side quests and shit

[subtle tundra]

actually chill

[slim hamlet]

That's for usual scrubs, so prob like 10 hours Varas

[subtle tundra]

yea cause i have to take mother-fucking breaks

interpret that as you will

[slim hamlet]

[gusty mirage]

I didn't get to play until like 4.5 hours ago

and went in a rabbit hole of side quests

and I'm a quest turn in away from 66

[subtle tundra]

i can play tomorrow 🙂

i remember in sl i leveled to 60, did my mythics both weeks and stopped playing

until m+ opened

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[subtle tundra]

i hope there's shit to do

oh maybe i also got very frustrated in torghast

almost started crying

[slim hamlet]

Imagine your mate just stealing your stacks

[brazen zodiac]

LOL

[cobalt hemlock]

glad they fixed it

[next edge]

I just went full campaign

then some side

but thereS A lot OF SIDES

like a LOT

[gusty mirage]

ye

they introduce you to profession stuff pretty well

some cool toys

start started third zone

[next edge]

Im really enjoying JC s ofar

and professions seem amazing tbh

[jade abyss]

Lvl 61 crafting gear is ilvl 304?

[dawn merlin]

Yea

[dark token]

seems good except for the zereth mortis puzzle

[subtle tundra]

How do you solve a puzzle

[hardy dagger]

2 sec cast iirc

Played around with it on beta got a kingsbane cast over 1mil

[limber lion]

Yeah it's kinda strong

[strange python]

yikes

guys

[subtle tundra]

Yes, guy?

[strange python]

is leveling a bit hard?

[subtle tundra]

Idk

[vestal wren]

most ppl i talked to did complain about ...

not being able to play

[subtle tundra]

Yea.. My day is full ill be home after midnight

I can't play

[vestal wren]

my guild is on the biggest eu server, so people didn't play a lot. servers seem to be okay now iirc

[hollow river]

assa leveling actually feels boss mang

[neat plank]

I'm enjoying questing, I never enjoyed that before, is it just me or are quests somehow more interesting?

[dark token]

Nah they are the same

It's just dragonriding making it less tedious

You can bunny hop around the map

[dawn merlin]

Dragonriding was definitely a great addition

[flint tusk]

I have to say i was leveling as sub and outlaw but i changed over to assassination as people wouldn't leave me along. and it is like twice as fast!

it's burst is blood nuts

[cobalt hemlock]

[flint tusk]

think is it's not even exsang xD
garrote mut envenom Mfd envenom and i can just walk away.
exsang is nutty on elites or boss mobs though

[slim hamlet]

Don't praise exsang

We still have hope of removal

[royal lantern]

if you say anything good about exsang, you need to get checked

[flint tusk]

whisp has infected me

exsang is god teir

[royal lantern]

whisp hates the ability lmao

[flint tusk]

but they proved it was higher dps

[royal lantern]

doesnt mean he likes it, thats just how TC works

he made a tweetlonger about how much exsang sucks, all guides have a exsang rant part

[flint tusk]

but i didn't say they did.

[fallen arch]

Exsang good for lvling

Still remove pls

[slim hamlet]

[noble onyx]

imho it should just be turned into something like: your next bleed dot ability deals its damage instantly.(or a portion of it)

Would be kinda cool

[neat plank]

7 bear asses!!!!!

[balmy condor]

[royal lantern]

pls infect me whisp

[slim hamlet]

[balmy condor]

[flint tusk]

yeh i can get behind this. i don't just why it's not something like increases the number of ticks rather than speeding existing ones up. but i probably don't know enough

[balmy condor]

trust me

we're just as confused

having it be passive could've reduced button bloat, made it less intrusive to the gameplay while still keeping the same concept

would've been easier to tune as well

could've even affected CT and promoted more CT's in AoE since the dot would be permanently compressed

there's many ways it could've been handled

[dim yacht]

has anyone found their poisons dropping off like...just all the time

ive had to reapply my poisons so many times its absurd

im talking 5+ times in an hour

[balmy condor]

yeah once an hour

[flint tusk]

i've had it a few times.
which is great fun when you have 4 to put back on xD

might need to make a sequence macro before i go insane

[balmy condor]

are you changing talents?

changing talents can reset dtb

[flint tusk]

nope. not touching them

probably the same old bug of when going between zones in "transport" or something

i'll keep an eye out for when it happens next and note what i was doing

[dim yacht]

wasnt changing talents either no

ill see if i can find whats causing

[slim hamlet]

CT on ST

[balmy condor]

not an issue with amp+pb

[ripe nova]

Your dragon resets the poisons, every time you have 10 stacks and burst down, you lose all poisons on the ground

[balmy condor]

interesting

[slim hamlet]

stacks?

[ripe nova]

Somehow the shockwave talent resets the poisons

[ripe nova]

The shockwave aoe dragon riding talent

[night delta]

Does the shield talent also reset poisons ?

[ripe nova]

Dunno, didn’t test it yet

[slim hamlet]

So ER envenom cttc bug, poison reset bug and DTB wound/deadly poison bug

[ripe nova]

But instant resetting poisons is driving me nutz

[slim hamlet]

Honestly not that bad amount of bugs for new release

[uneven summit]

Kingsbane or DTB whats looking best atm, sorry if i didnt see sims

[balmy condor]

faq

[slim hamlet]

exsang

[uneven summit]

ahh thanks

so Kingsbane is alittle better but its super duper close okay, thanks whispyr 🙂

[balmy condor]

np

[dim yacht]

i had the same issue with constant resetting poisons and i have the shield one, id say yes

[amber yoke]

gnasxe

[flint tusk]

yeh changing talents or picking a new one and when zoning through portals in the story delete poisons >.<

[rocky sluice]

amp + deadly or instant?

for DTB

[flint tusk]

amp deadly crip atrophic

[strange python]

Suggestions on macros to simply some actions? Like Vanish+Garrote in one button for improved garrote?

[balmy condor]

you could do that

but you'd need garrote on its own anyway

so not sure how useful that is

only thing I can kinda recommend is macroing trinkets/potion with deathmark

the rest is a bit sketch

[strange python]

Oh yeah I just meant being able to at least make one button I can mash & still get desired results. Even if I have to press it a few times

Garrote is still its own ability in the #1 spot on my action bar

[balmy condor]

maybe I don't understand what the point is then

[gleaming geyser]

Only mandatory macro is pickpocket + garrote with pickpocket glyph

[thorn fjord]

no its /moo to deathmark

[royal lantern]

its /moo to all abilitys

[thorn fjord]

i should totally macro it to SS and Mutilate

[storm rapids]

you’re evil

[pseudo hamlet]

DTB opener shows to use SBS while DTB talent build doesn't have it.

[jade abyss]

I have bound moo on W

[spice spire]

[strange python]

It’s for old people like me who absolutely adored old Combat’s low low button 112112 rotation and now every rogue spec feels like 12232323464636111111222334447573826 😦 so if I could just reduce even one or two abilities to use in a single button I’d be ecstatic

[balmy condor]

I mean you can

but you wouldn't be optimal

you just untalent a couple of buttons

but you can't have both :P

[strange python]

I think it’s also because I’m gonna admit that I used to be a clicker for a long time. Maybe it’s time to dust off my old Razor Naga and start binding abilities to that

[balmy condor]

best I can do for you is play dtb without sbs

that removes KB and sbs

that's 2 buttons

[strange python]

Will that be sufficient for Mythic+?

[balmy condor]

I mean it would be fine in raids, m+ is uh

probably going to be sketch

double capstone m+ is really really good

[strange python]

I’m totally okay not being the best rogue on the server anymore

[thorn fjord]

Enjoying your day off? @spice spire

[spice spire]

Not a day off

[thorn fjord]

rip

[balmy condor]

but DTB isn't like

the worst thing ever

in m+

it'll be fine for 20's probably

wouldn't suggest much higher personally

[strange python]

I think that’s totally fine for me. I just need to get comfortable mastering something right now so I can make little improvement iterations/really understand the drawbacks to not using X

But until I get to 70, every spec feels unfinished so questing is fine with whatever I have

[pale plank]

Now that I hit 70 I am switch from outlaw to sin and oh wow the spec is actually more complicated compared to previous expansion, not that it’s hard

I am impressed

[pseudo hamlet]

what's the around difference in % between KB and DTB in raids?

[balmy condor]

I mean overall dps is like within 1%

[pseudo hamlet]

~1% for 2 buttons is a fair trade I guess.

[balmy condor]

I honestly feel like dtb should be worse still

[pseudo hamlet]

Damn, I could even sacrifice 8 buttons for 4% difference!

[burnt star]

U forgot ability 8 9 10 11 and 12

[balmy condor]

for a majority of players, the esoteric "more control" "execute damage important" "higher burst" arguments just don't make sense

[burnt star]

Oh and blindside proc haha

[balmy condor]

they'll take their -3 buttons and just play

[pseudo hamlet]

yeah, understandable

[burnt star]

Whateve r build is stronger in said sitiuation is what ill play tbh

Will depend on kill time too

[pale plank]

The only talents that I wish it wasn’t a thing is ER, I didn’t like it back in shadowlands and I still don’t like it now

[burnt star]

Early on. The execute build will def be stronger

[stable relic]

How is assa in dungeons rn?

[balmy condor]

good

[burnt star]

Dungeon rn is. Whatever

Like u can play what u like

[royal lantern]

if i dont minmax my class/spec and secondarys, can i still do that 1 questing dungeon at lvl 64?

[burnt star]

Only if u use exsang

[royal lantern]

fuck

warlock it is

[burnt star]

Warlock is always meta

Can never go wrong

Also people will invite u even with shit gear just for the closet

[spice spire]

I accidentally topped damage on even aoe pulls with no capstone, no CT, and no bitches I believe in u king

[royal lantern]

yeha, but you have GREEN NAME magic

im just a generic red loser

[gusty mirage]

Need more emphasis on that last one

[spice spire]

(I pressed fok and rupture)

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

I’m gonna eat ur ass

[balmy condor]

val in shambles

[spice spire]

Yeah she ain’t a bitch tho

Checkmate buddy

[subtle tundra]

Assa is so bad

Can't believe it

[slim hamlet]

yeah spec sucks

buff please

Give us double charge exsang 🙂

[polar matrix]

Was exsang fun during Uldir BFA or am i misremembering it

[balmy condor]

depends who you ask

I have never liked exsang

some people liked 8.3 nyalotha exsang because assassination was energy capped, and exsang was a means to that

others liked exsang because sin was strong for those patches

some people actually just like the gameplay (lizard people)

[slim hamlet]

fake

[polar matrix]

i remember using it on bosses like fetid and vectis

and thinking it felt decent but i don't know if that view was widely shared

[subtle tundra]

I didn't play 8.3 with exsang but I like it now

[weak horizon]

8.3 exsang was fucking amazing

[solar rain]

am I the only one who feels like sin rogue is absolutely awesome rn?

[signal pivot]

I’d press exsang more if it was aoe

[slim hamlet]

Is it just me or does MfD not reset

[weak horizon]

I started wow in 8.3 and I loved the haste corruption exsang build. It felt very cool bleeding the fuck out of the boss and hard topping the DPS on the opener.

[subtle tundra]

I don't like gcd capped assa

So I probably wouldn't have liked it

[solar rain]

remove gcd

[subtle tundra]

🥰

[solar rain]

[weak horizon]

Oh, I guess that's fair

[solar rain]

I just remember going absolutely bonkers in ToT as a sin rogue

and I miss that so much

[weak horizon]

I remember finding out about the exsang build in 8.3 from infexious and then coming in here and asking questions and being told he was dumb and spreading misinformation

[balmy condor]

I mean

usually how that works

:)

[weak horizon]

Rip infexious

[polar matrix]

@balmy condor thank you for the opener images in the faq dude, easiest way for my brain to process stuff

[balmy condor]

np

[fluid dust]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz

[thorn fjord]

Servers are back up

[fallen arch]

I have the feeling I’m playing an entirely different spec as opposed to 9.1/9.2

Is that just me?

[spice spire]

Good bye every one

[spice spire]

You are - it’s changed a bit

[pale plank]

game is super laggy, how about u guys?

[neat plank]

yeah same

is there a pre-season BIS list?

[balmy condor]

wowhead gear page

[remote oak]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[neat plank]

nice, thx

hm strange, the dagger thats supposed to drop in Nokhud isnt showing up in my adventurer's journal loot page 🙂

[remote oak]

I'd better get used to using echoing reprimand huh

[neat plank]

as you wish, I'm not speccing into that crap

[pale plank]

bruh i feel the same way

[slim hamlet]

Yeah was thinking about that when i saw gear list on wowhead

[subtle tundra]

What else you gonna spec into

[remote oak]

Grey parse

[slim hamlet]

SD xd

[deft flicker]

Sippy + some utility stuff

[subtle tundra]

🦧

[solar rain]

hey @balmy condor I notice on the wowhead article it says sin rogues dont bring anything to raid

[balmy condor]

idk man wowhead say dagger drop from last boss I say dagger drop from last boss

[solar rain]

what about atrophic , cloak cheese?

[balmy condor]

okay

and the other specs can't do that?

[solar rain]

I believe rogues are the only boss DR

maybe I am wrong

[subtle tundra]

He meant assa

Not rogue

[solar rain]

fair

fair

[slim hamlet]

wowhead do be doing a bit of trolling

[solar rain]

my b

I misread spec as class lol

https://tenor.com/view/i-am-not-worthy-not-worthy-respect-bow-gif-14777001

thank you for all you do Whispyr, sorry dum dums like me make your life harder

[deft flicker]

Weird question, but does DTB make you have 2 Leeching Poisons??

[slim hamlet]

no

[deft flicker]

[solar rain]

just 2 different lethal/non

[hushed elbow]

Man i wish we could get DTB and kingbane

[solar rain]

im liking DTB play too much to run kingbane

[thorn crater]

normal mythics havent been opened yet right

so we dont know how craftable epics stand next to loot gear

[gusty mirage]

They open on reset, so they’re up now for NA

Tomorrow for EU

[jade abyss]

What ilvl we are able to craft on 70 atm?

[royal lantern]

man, dunno how people can like DtB when its literally just "you do %more dmg"

[balmy condor]

just vendetta aint it

[fallen arch]

I like it too but that’s because it’s one less thing extra to think about

[remote oak]

DtB isn't on top though right?

So you're getting more reward from KB build anyway

[restive sparrow]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[quaint sequoia]

So fucking many keybinds for sin now

It's insane

Ability pruning is needed again

[gusty mirage]

it's +1 or +2 compared to SL

[pseudo hamlet]

It's like 3-4 actually I think

[pale plank]

For real last time I played sin was SoD raid, and it was ez, now I gotta remember to ER, KB, DM, Exxang and I am pretty sure I am forgetting something

[peak bobcat]

Practice makes perfect

[pale plank]

Gotta fit in shiv in KB too

[pseudo hamlet]

[pale plank]

There u go I knew I was missing something

[pseudo hamlet]

And don't forget about Ambush!

But yeah, I think that assa has way too many abilites compared to previous expansions

[austere flame]

!FUU

[prisma monolith]

Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz

[gusty mirage]

it's not

unless you guys weren't using fleshcraft/soulshape/door of shadows or weren't playing MFD with venthyr

it's not

[pseudo hamlet]

I wasn't using door of shadows for the raids, I mean not always.

[balmy condor]

mfd -> thistle
venth -> kyrian
door -> sbs
KB
Tea
ambush
carnage
exang

I mean

I think it's reasonable

[gusty mirage]

dunno I've only had to add 1 more bind on beta with full talents

[balmy condor]

I've needed 2-3

[quaint sequoia]

never used mfd, cause of keybind bloat
door I clicked 🤷‍♂️

[gusty mirage]

only time I've needed to add more was when I played IC

[pseudo hamlet]

So it's still 3(4 if playing carnage)

[gusty mirage]

replacing CT in ST with KB

[balmy condor]

thats what you think bud

[quaint sequoia]

you have KB in m+ build aswell?

right?

[pseudo hamlet]

I am not changing my keybinds for ST/PvP/Raiding separately

I think that I actually may now

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-it-get-some-help-gif-15058124

[pseudo hamlet]

Though it's gonna be pain in the ass with PvP (bonus MFD + Gouge)

[quaint sequoia]

shiv should just be utility again since we got kingsbane talent

[spice spire]

CT + Exsang ST

[final briar]

guys

which wep vz we use?

[gusty mirage]

what

[balmy condor]

terrible take

[gusty mirage]

what is "vz"

[spice spire]

Next season they need to open shrine of the storm for the ultimate salt

[gusty mirage]

I liked shrine

[quaint sequoia]

I mean we had KB, and then they gave us shiv as replacement and now we got both

[balmy condor]

incorrect

[gusty mirage]

we had toxic blade

[spice spire]

GCB buddy

[balmy condor]

we had KB, we had toxic blade

[final briar]

enchant sry

[gusty mirage]

be kind to yourself

[final briar]

was on german haha

[balmy condor]

shiv is upgraded toxic blade

[quaint sequoia]

yea but they played the same role basicly

[balmy condor]

yes, toxic blade and shiv played the same role

[quaint sequoia]

KB -> TB -> shiv and now we got shiv and kb

[final briar]

which enchant we use??

[balmy condor]

what

[final briar]

on weps

[balmy condor]

it's not KB -> TB -> shiv

it's
KB
TB -> shiv

we had KB and TB at the same time in legion

[quaint sequoia]

we did?

[balmy condor]

lmao

yes

it replaced agonizing poison

[gray crest]

Sophic devotion

[quaint sequoia]

oh right, but we didn't play it right?

[final briar]

its 120k??XD

[balmy condor]

we did

[pseudo hamlet]

Wait, dont buy enchants now, no reason to

[balmy condor]

we actually played it for the rest of the expansion

[quaint sequoia]

I have no memory of having keybind for both KB and TB in legion

[final briar]

i jsut use Sl enchants

still work

[rich scaffold]

Should i always reprimand rupture? so like in the opener too?

[balmy condor]

im sorry to hear that

[final briar]

na sry dont work

[balmy condor]

ER -> rup -> exsang every 45 seconds

[quaint sequoia]

oh well, either way sin is ability bloated af rn imo

[balmy condor]

honestly, it's not that much more bloated than other specs

sin always had less buttons

now it has similar

[past belfry]

will IC replicate improved garrotes from stealth?

[balmy condor]

yes

[past belfry]

so is that the move? pop it in stealth ?

[balmy condor]

yes

[past belfry]

nice, thanks!

[marble hemlock]

tbf we didnt get TB until later into the expac

[balmy condor]

yes we talked about that

[strange python]

I already dread trying to convince tanks that we can kill packs faster than the .05 seconds they save by not letting me restealth

[marble hemlock]

why does my vanish or dance garrote sometimes give 5CP

[silk bane]

has anyone else tried a poison bomb build for AOE? I did some nasty aoe damage just spamming FoK envenoms and just dropping IC completely. My ST was also obv higher because of it. are there any simms to show that IC is actually better? idk maybe IC gets better with higher key levels? but right now PB just did way more cuz everything dies so fast

[marble hemlock]

well its not exactly rocket science that if the bleeds from your IC dont even run full duration, it wont be as good

[pale plank]

i think thats the main reason like you said, things right now dies too fast i am pretty sure on higher keys with mobs living longer IC will do may more dps

[silk bane]

yeah for sure, im just curious if saving 4 talent points and not taking IC might also be better for higher keys. so like you just dot up 3-4 targets and hope u get some nice PB procs.

cuz single target feels kinda bad man with IC even with KB idk maybe Im messing up my KB window somehow idk

[final briar]

what feels best for m+?

talents

[spice spire]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[hollow river]

Wait I thought I was just imagining that last night

[marble hemlock]

nah ive had it happen fairly regularly

[balmy condor]

during deathmark?

[marble hemlock]

yeah maybe

that might be it

guess the double application gives CP twice then

[final briar]

why wow head say echoing for m+? Tea feels way better

[marble hemlock]

cause youre full energy all teh time anyway

[dark token]

the cttc bug super annoying

[marble hemlock]

or well, should be

[dark token]

in m+

[final briar]

mkay later

may*

[balmy condor]

also the comparison isn't tea to ER

it's tea and 1/2 lethality to tea and 2/2 lethality

ER is way too strong to drop

[burnt star]

Whats the bug?

[balmy condor]

cttc isn't affected by animacharge cp

[final briar]

cttc?

[silk bane]

cut to the chase

[burnt star]

Talent

[final briar]

ahh thx

[topaz bluff]

planning on running DtB for M+; is Ex is still worth it over Tempest/Serrated Bone? Not sure which to pick from those 3 options with my last talent. The way I was looking at it is Ex= single target, Tempest is pure AoE, Serrated is middle ground for both. Is that wrong?

[balmy condor]

you should always be running CT and Exsang

in m+

sbs you can drop

but if you're going DTB then you probably should be taking that as well

idk where the rest of your points are going but probably worth reconsidering some of those choices

non-sbs would look something like this

probably something like this if you do go sbs

[dark token]

amp over ttk in aoe?

[balmy condor]

ttk dogshit talent homeboy

in pure like 6 target aoe, sure whatever

in dungeons? no shot

[topaz bluff]

yeah its close to the second one; I dropped Iron Wire mainly because I run with a pally and that seems redundant for the silence spamming on they keys we actually push. First season playing rogue since bfa though so kinda finding the groove again.

could be wrong though; might just need a billion and a half silences this expac, I havent been able to see much of the trash without it just blowing up until M+ actually comes out /shrug

[balmy condor]

yeh I mean at some point you'll go IC+KB anyway for the push

and then iron wire is huge

but until then with these low ass dungeons

you can probably get rid of it

[random fog]

sin rogue feel stronger than outlaw? new to rogue.

[balmy condor]

in single target yes

in m+, debatable

[topaz bluff]

ugh was afraid of that; brb need more hotkeys 🙃

[balmy condor]

yeh if you play sin in keys you play IC+KB and iron wire

otherwise like

don't play sin keys

at least not high end push keys

if you're just doing 20's or whatever garbo keys then run anything

but in the higher keys

double capstone or you play outlaw

[spice spire]

[dark token]

just doing dungeons rn im doing 26k~ as sin and 30k as outlaw, with similar sims

but i havent played with the KB/IC talent build much

can prob do better

[pulsar fog]

Well, trash prob isn't living long enough for your dots to get full value

[dark token]

ye thats a problem

i dont have a good kingsbane target half the time when its up

shit dies fast enough

i might try dtb build

[pulsar fog]

I'd probably still run the double capstone build just to get used to the playstyle

[dark token]

ye its fun

one thing im having trouble with decisionmaking wise is do i open with SS garrotes on 3 mobs and then when tank groups 8 mobs, i overwrite them with a regular garrote/rupture from IC

or do i chill in stealth until tank groups so i can SS garrote IC everything

[topaz bluff]

I been running with an arms/dh with the guild. I havent even got to see what a aoe rotation feels like currently. Junks dead before I can blink an eye.

[pulsar fog]

In higher content, I'd say probably this. For the next couple weeks, probably doesn't matter

[dark token]

the other thing is maybe i just rip an IC on the 3-5 targets right away

it helps group

[balmy condor]

entirely depends on how long it takes to group

I think in general though IC is such a big part of your aoe damage

if you're in a big pack

you rip the IC

get that shit on cooldown

[dark token]

i also havent been dropping IC if its 3 targets or less

[spice spire]

IC feels pretty good just yoking around

In dungeons I bet it’s

[dark token]

well if they are longlived targets i would probably in an actual key

anyway this build is fun to play, you can do your regular ST rotation on big targets and still have the carnage boom

[pulsar fog]

I think for like 3-4 targets you'll want to be thinking about the next pull. Will you have it back up again when you need it etc.

[balmy condor]

its 45 sec though

like in a normal key

it'll be up

[quaint sequoia]

so damn laggy

I just wanna lvl my dh

[dark token]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6Gow1KgCUPVdyA4zsGUhFe this build outsimming carnage/KB for me ill try it next

[balmy condor]

weird

wonder if that's a pre-tier thing

[dark token]

wouldnt tier make DTB better?

since it works on weapon poisons vs all poisons

[balmy condor]

and the 20% bleed damage does nothing or.....

[silk bane]

I think tier makes your bleeds stronger making IC more valuable vs now which im suspecting a lot of the damage is coming from PB

[dark token]

ok yeah fair

[slim hamlet]

What does KB even count as?

It's not a poison or bleed is it?

[dark token]

nothing

[slim hamlet]

yeah ok

[dark token]

except for mastery

[balmy condor]

it counts for zold

[dark token]

not dashing tho iirc?

[slim hamlet]

Because consistency

yep

[dark token]

lmao

[slim hamlet]

Works with 2 talents which is bleed and poison but isn't that

??

[balmy condor]

I mean in general mastery and zold are looser, dashing is weapon poisons

it doesn't make a difference in your gameplay

y'all actually just agitating yourself over something that doesn't really change anything

[slim hamlet]

i dont really care

[dark token]

ah right i forgot

[slim hamlet]

Just weird it isn't consistent

[dark token]

they changed dashing from poisons -> weapon poisons

when it stopped being lego

[balmy condor]

it isn't consistent for balance reasons

if you take away envenom from mastery, mastery is significantly worse

if you add it to zold, zold is bonkers crazy, but not in aoe

and that has then implications for amp and poison bomb and anything envenom related on top of that

it's a huge headache

it seems weird if you're looking at it purely from "it says X so it must be Y, anything else is dumb"

but if you think about it for a bit

it's not that dumb actually

[dark token]

ok this DTB build feels quite good

much better ST, easier to play

[slim hamlet]

I refuse to believe that

[dark token]

big dam overall

it plays like SL sin

[balmy condor]

yeh dtb is chilling

also helps cause it's instant damage ya know

[dark token]

yeah

[slim hamlet]

Havn't tried it yet, but just seems residentsleeper

[dark token]

in these low keys

still enough to do with exang/er to not be boring

quite a bit more chill tho

[quaint sequoia]

sounds good, now they just need to delete exsang and we be gucci

[abstract helm]

Is anyone considering raiding in assassination and doing m+ in outlaw?

Having to maintain different gear sets would be annoying

[slim hamlet]

Same gear

mostly

Or at least, it's not like you're fucking one for the other

[dark token]

probably most of us

[abstract helm]

Slightly different stat priority, and main weapon

[slim hamlet]

Weapon is the rough part

[thorn crater]

get one crafted

and try to get a second one

[abstract helm]

I wish I could play one for both activities, but both seem to take a hit in one or the other. The question is: is outlaw better in raid than assassination in mythic+?

Also getting groups in m+, at least in raid my guild has to take me haha

[quaint sequoia]

I wish they would bring old combat back

that was a good spec

or change outlul to tank

would love a tankspec on rogue

[dark token]

yeah ok playing DTB unless IC/KB is /significantly/ better in m+ its just too much effort for the dmg despite being fun

DTB lets me focus on dungeon mechanics a lot more

[slim hamlet]

How is it too much effort and fun at same time

🤔

[dark token]

its fun and engaging but you have to constantly focus on it

[quaint sequoia]

No build with exsang is fun tbh

[dark token]

and minmax like 3 seperate minmaxes

which you dont have in DTB

if a build is similar dps but far easier, thats definitely the play for m+

[spice spire]

Things can be fun and require too much effort.
Ie. Sin last tier in dungeons, doing less damage than outlaw despite being considerably more effort was more fun IMO

It’s subjective stuff

[spice spire]

It does less damage, therefore it’s not. But until low 20s, legitimately it’s fine build

[dark token]

its more dmg right now (at least for my char) 😄

[spice spire]

In the end, DTB won’t. It could be an infamous issue among many, myself included

Skill issue

I never ran mfd for that reason in keys

More dam; but at what cost

[dark token]

yeah if im doing keys i prefer a chill build since you spam a bunch of them and play for hours, and a huge variety of mechanics

raiding? highest dps minmax build sure

KIR/ER outlaw also quite chill

[strange python]

Is logging on any better today?

couldent get on at all yesterday

[slim hamlet]

no problem today

some random dc's

that's all

[strange python]

thats good

[dark token]

i was excited about my huge sin dmg in keys then sim outlaw and its 33% higher

[strange python]

thats an L

[fallen arch]

The lag is horrendous atm for me

EU

[strange python]

sim does not equal gameplay

[abstract helm]

33% prob does

Especially when outlaw is way easier in m+

[alpine latch]

I feel dumb asking this, but...

Is there a list of where it's best to focus renown for gear?

I know some of the areas sell up to like 389 gear but I don't remember where I saw it and I don't know if that's even obtainable pre-raid

[grand trail]

its not very relevant but with my gear assa doing 5k more dps on dummy than outlaw

[quaint burrow]

forgive me being new to assassination but is there a recommended youtuber you guys can throw at me so I can absorb, reading the FAQ is hurting my brain

[spice spire]

Unfortunately since information gets outdated so quickly, it’s hard to nail video content.
If you want it in more focused pieces; there are guides

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[dark token]

i hate a couple things about DF already

[vestal wren]

things also change to much atm

[cyan kestrel]

Has anyone done sims with EoN is it still something we hold onto in off hand or can we drop it

[vestal wren]

so guides are out of date often within a week

[dark token]

1. instant poison is far right, fucking with my muscle memory
2. quick decisions is gone and shadow step feels like shadow hop

i keep putting on instant poison and wonder why my VW doesnt work

[oak sky]

Literally

Deadly should be on the bottom

[slim hamlet]

what does that have to do with dragonflight

am i tripping?

[dark token]

cause instant poison was added to sin

[silk bane]

^^ dude i thought it was just me but the short step is giving me brain lag

[oak sky]

Qd was so nice

[dark token]

realz i would literally trade kingsbane for quick decisions

[oak sky]

I knew we would miss iy

It

[silk bane]

I legit had a mental breakdown when step wouldnt go off last night...

[spice spire]

[dark token]

or IC for quick decisions

[spice spire]

You outta pocket rn

[dark token]

my shadow step feels like i have broken ankles

i cant follow tank

fall behind

bout to talent out of tricks for nightrunner in m+ so my ass doesnt feel like a DK

[quaint burrow]

Okay cool ty

[neat plank]

outlaw with 15 ilvl lower than me had double my dungeon deeps, both on single and aoe 🙂

[slim hamlet]

Skill issue

[neat plank]

instant dmg luxury

well then I guess assa is just crazy hard to play ;>

[silk bane]

youre probably going ham on bleed damage, go for PB for now and youre gonna be doing mad deeeps

[spice spire]

Nah it’s not

Crazy hard to play that is

[neat plank]

then im bottom 1% of players

[spice spire]

Nah

It takes practice

I wouldn’t label it easy

[quaint burrow]

pb?

[spice spire]

But it’s not rocket science either

[spice spire]

Poison bomb? What about it?

Oh above

[quaint burrow]

just wanted to know what it stood for ty

[silk bane]

poison bomb. things die too fast for bleeds to do damage. just go poison bomb for more instnat damage

[spice spire]

Ignore my question

[bright elk]

Was looking at method guide and in single target it says kingsbane before shiv but aoe it says shiv before kingsbane. Can someone explain?

[spice spire]

You have two charges of shiv

[bright elk]

So kb shiv shiv?

[slim hamlet]

🤔

[spice spire]

No

[bright elk]

Sorry playing outlaw I lose a few braincells

[spice spire]

You’ll want to shiv, kb. Wait until duration is close and maintain it.

You’re good

How dare you ask questions in a spec channel

[bright elk]

Back to sin for drqginflight

[spice spire]

[silk bane]

i think its because you only have 1 gcd after u use death mark before you HAVE to use KB. in single target you envenom for that gcd for envenom buff then kb then shiv. for aoe its not worth it to envenom then, i think youre missing combo points to make it worth or something not sure. so you use the gcd to shiv first

[past belfry]

So if taking pb for lower content for now, where am I getting those points from?

[slim hamlet]

Exsang

(that was a joke)

[pulsar fog]

Maybe drop IC since you'll never get full value from it in low content anyway?

[cobalt hemlock]

if you do exsang and after that death mark does that lower its duration or no

[slim hamlet]

yep

its banned

[spice spire]

Deathmark after Exsang, no.
Exsang after deathmark, yes

On lower durations

You never want to Exsang while death mark is going

[cobalt hemlock]

so you want always first exsang then death mark

[spice spire]

Yes

If they line up

[cobalt hemlock]

ye

[river acorn]

Is it normal when I practice opener on dummies that I get energy starved super fast? After aoe opener for example I just sit there with 0 energy not pressing a button for 2+ seconds

[spice spire]

Which aoe opener are you using?

[river acorn]

The one in assassinatio faq

this one

[teal bloom]

do you have deadly poison applied?

[river acorn]

Yes I do

[spice spire]

You’re doing each of those garrotes to different targets, correct?

[river acorn]

Sometimes yes sometimes no

I try to always do it

[spice spire]

They should go to different targets

[river acorn]

Yeah I try to usually

[spice spire]

Though this does raise the: has our poison application bug been fixed

[river acorn]

I'll practice some more only been playing assa for 3 days now, haven't played it since mid legion

[spice spire]

@balmy condor I pray you’re not sleeping, was it ever fixed for garrote

[balmy condor]

I think it was

but cttc animacharge was also fixed at some point

[spice spire]

Everything feels smooth when I played last night.
Oh

I see

Realz and the team are good beans, they’re trying

[slim hamlet]

Valdrakken is a bit laggy

For whoever said it was laggy

[balmy condor]

a bit

[slim hamlet]

Seems to be only main city

[balmy condor]

also the dragonriding races are piss fucking easy btw

[vagrant bison]

Would you guys suggest me to play assasination over outlaw? I really like both, but i simply can't get over 65cmp on outlaw. How big is the difference between the dps of the two?

[slim hamlet]

Yep had no idea what I was doing got 5 sec under gold on my first

[grizzled jay]

the real game will be global time trials

[neat plank]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz

[grizzled jay]

the achievements are made for casuals to be able to get them

[spice spire]

St were GIGA ahead. But you’re coming to the assassination channel to ask if we’d prefer the spec

But okay what you enjoy, honestly

[balmy condor]

no shot that's a thing right

[spice spire]

If you enjoy sin? Play it, anything will be good at some point this expansion, surely.

[grizzled jay]

they talked about it in interviews

[slim hamlet]

Clueless

[spice spire]

[slim hamlet]

Is 2 target CT even worth it when using PB

[spice spire]

CT PB logic

[balmy condor]

yes

[slim hamlet]

Perfect

No thinking is good

Wait

Do we CT on 1 target with PB?

[pure moth]

You crimson on 2 plus if talented per faq

[slim hamlet]

huh

Just remember we talked about it before launch where it was 1 target

[slim hamlet]

Well there we go

[shadow sequoia]

Guys are there any assassination rogue streamers currently live?

[slim hamlet]

Sin rogue streamers don't exist

[shadow sequoia]

All I see is outlaw

[balmy condor]

seli is

[wary ice]

#rogue-streamers has a list of live streamers

[subtle tundra]

Hey I exist

I will stream leveling

Tomorrow

😭

[shadow sequoia]

@balmy condor can u add @marble hemlock to #rogue-streamers

[balmy condor]

he's on there dude

[subtle tundra]

[balmy condor]

imagine pinging 2 mods

cause can't read

[shadow sequoia]

Sorry I didn't see him

[subtle tundra]

Sorry I'm currently not home...

[teal bloom]

smh my head

[spice spire]

I’d never ping mods

[undone summit]

hey guys , i am leveling as assa rn but my energy reg feels like giga slow , does it change later ?

[spice spire]

Yeah

[shadow sequoia]

Seli just died to mobs xD

They need to buff assassination bro

[copper hazel]

Here's a ping for you cute 👑

[spice spire]

Ty papi

Skill issue

[undone summit]

so it is just super slow and wont improve later?

[subtle tundra]

Assa is so bad

👨‍🦽

[undone summit]

damn

[subtle tundra]

Don't trust me

I'm vulnerable rn

But assa is horrid

[undone summit]

ye but like i put every dot on 2-3 mobs

still no energy reg

[subtle tundra]

Seems like you have a skill problem

Like no venomous wounds or maybe bad poison choice

[spice spire]

@subtle tundra cut down on the sarcasm, man.

When people are learning, it’s better to give them actual advice instead of snide comments

But yeah, he is right on the build / poison choice

[subtle tundra]

Idk what to call it

[spice spire]

Are you following the guide @undone summit

[subtle tundra]

It's a wrong skill problem

The ability

Not sarcasm

[spice spire]

Oh I legit thought you were saying

Skill issue

[subtle tundra]

😔

[spice spire]

Fuck me im so sorry

[balmy condor]

it's the name

you just have to assume

[shadow sequoia]

Guys, is it hard to learn assassination?

[spice spire]

That’s fair, but still. Unwarranted in this case

It’s the same as learning any other spec imo

[undone summit]

i have ven wounds , and use instant poison , is it not right?

[subtle tundra]

Sorry I'm not thinking straight

[shadow sequoia]

I'm watching Seliathan, i have no idea what he's doing seems weird the rotation

[spice spire]

Deadly poison

Do not use instant

[subtle tundra]

I'm trying to be helpful

[spice spire]

Ur good

This one on me, homie

Mb

[short token]

ok that video/ will watch it in a sec

ty

[spice spire]

Generally it’s easier to learn on a hands on approach compared to watching, but everyone learns differently

[undone summit]

alright ty , is it always deadly or do you use the "new" poison too?

[spice spire]

If you’re talented on amplifying, you’ll use amplifying

But if not, deadly is the best

[undone summit]

nice tyvm

[spice spire]

Gl sir!

[shadow sequoia]

Umm, outlaw has a nicer community than the assassination community tho I feel like

[subtle tundra]

😦

Sorry

[shadow sequoia]

Which has fewer spells to click -> assassination or outlaw?

[spice spire]

They’re close.
Probably outlaw

[slim hamlet]

Outlaw

definitely

[pliant grail]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz

[oblique jackal]

Sin feels so good

[past belfry]

It really does, I just need to figure out what I’m missing to get it up to my outlaw dps

But I enjoy it so much more

[hollow river]

Is Envenom supposed to be double dipping amplifying during DM?

[limber lion]

Not quite double dipping, but yes it is supposed to consume both amp poison stacks.

[silk bane]

how does the double consume works? if you have 10 stacks on both does it do 2 x 35% or takes 5 of each ?

[hollow river]

Kk

Seems pretty juicy

[dark token]

outlaw if you dont play dtb. if you play dtb sin has less

[dark token]

spoiler u wont in a key

[thorn crater]

@balmy condor where is mapleleveling and mapledungeoneering

[spice spire]

[hollow river]

[pure spoke]

has anyone noticed the wowhead bis list has a caster dagger there for assa???

[dense herald]

Sin has about 1-2 too manny buttons imo

Still fun tho

[strange python]

guys

[zealous ridge]

So i'm still a tad confused. If we use Exsang before deathmark, how is it duplicating our exsang empowered bleeds? I thought deathmark only duplicates bleeds that we apply AFTER we cast deathmark

[spice spire]

After and before

[zealous ridge]

So we do our opener, cast exsang THEN deathmark, then envenom shiv and just cast another garrote/rupture right before deathmark falls off or the dot falls off?

[jade abyss]

You cast definitly exsang for deathmark not afterwards but that stand in the faq :)

[balmy condor]

after the exsang'd dots drop

[zealous ridge]

thanks i was just not understanding how deathmark worked

[fast pond]

does anyone have their leeching poison not apply when they login with poisons already applied?

maybe thats intended but it sure is annoying

[little ivy]

Do sylv daggers fall off at heroic dungo gear

[trim dirge]

do you avoid pandemic on your exsang dots

[balmy sage]

Hello, there is some macro that when the blindside proc jumps you could use it with the same key in which you have the mutilate??

[slim hamlet]

not auto

[limber lion]

Yes, you let them run out completely before reapplying.

[limber lion]

Nothing great, just use 2 different binds for Muti/Ambush.

[balmy sage]

Okay, thanks 😄

[upbeat mirage]

You can set one up that works for stealth (not dance) but requires multiple button presses. There is nothing that will check a proc for you. That would eliminate the point of the proc. So no on blindside.

[balmy sage]

I see, tyty

[frozen jasper]

Are we still using SND in multi target Situations? Isnt listed in the opener sequence

[elfin valley]

anyone else having slight issues with too many binds?

[quaint burrow]

what is, am i dumb

[spice spire]

Echoing reprimand

[quaint burrow]

ty

[deft vault]

i heard there was pvp lootboxe drop in the world every couple hours if you were in warmode can anyone confirm if this is true

[mortal crystal]

Yes, just like BFA. Drops from an aircraft and whatever faction "tags" it gets to loot it.

I've opened three, so far. No gear yet 😦

[slim hamlet]

[lavish wing]

should cut to the chase benefit from the animacharged cp?

[slim hamlet]

ye it's bug

[grand trail]

hello, whats our enchants? specially weapons

[slim hamlet]

99% chance its

in FAQ or wowhead

[limber lion]

Sophic Devotion is a good, safe bet.

[alpine latch]

Hmmm, which rep to focus..

[deft vault]

Do they appear on the map and do you know when they spawn?

[red tinsel]

Anyone tried Assa without ER at 70?

[strange python]

What else would you take

[subtle tundra]

There's really nothing else to take

Sd is bad

[red tinsel]

I don't know tbh, there's not a lot

[torn atlas]

Side note, I've never had so much fun with war mode than I am right now. Exsang and deathmark just absolutely dismantling enemies before they know what's going on.

[red tinsel]

I just don't really like it for Assa and it's one bind too much... So maybe another question is, anyone try Assa without SBS?

I love SBS but really want to try and find a bind for ER

[balmy condor]

assa without sbs is just dtb angle

[red tinsel]

So it also goes without Kingsbane right?

[balmy condor]

dtb is an exclusive capstone yes

[red tinsel]

Hmm Hard, I love Kingsbane, but I really feel like this build of yours has one bind too many, and I love everything else about it

I'll try and find a place for ER . The DTB build is far behind?

[balmy condor]

1-3% depending on situation

[torn atlas]

I've had an mmo mouse for two years and never really used the side buttons before.

[red tinsel]

Ok, not toooo bad

[torn atlas]

They're getting a solid workout now

[rapid tree]

is the Puzzle box trinket any good?

[red tinsel]

Hmmm you just gave me an idea. My mouse has a DPI button on the side, wonder if I can reconfigure it to a MB6 or something

[balmy condor]

wowhead gear page

[red tinsel]

Totally ignoring ER and going some utility talents is prob a huge loss, right?

[pale plank]

On my sim ER is only 1% of my damage

[red tinsel]

I mean, ER is, but the 7CP finishers are prob more

[pale plank]

You are right about this

[hollow river]

yes

[torn atlas]

Yeah I think the real strength would be from the 7cp rupture and envenoms.

[red tinsel]

oh well, such is the life. I'll see what I can work out with keybinds

[slim hamlet]

Also may I add, exsang becomes 20x more bearable with ER

The abilities alone omega sucks imo, but togethet they're not the worst

[red tinsel]

I need one or two more levels for exsang, I got SBS first

I'm surprisingly OK with Exsang, but ER is just uhh I always hated the theme

[torn atlas]

Took me a bit of tweaking, biggest issue I found was rebinding things that used to share a bind because they weren't used together in the past - Crimsom Temp and Blindside or SBS and ER for example

I have some absolutely disgusting binds though, so probably not a good example

[red tinsel]

I guess so do I

My issue is I try to have very specific spots for each type of skills