combined with 5% speed gem
#assassination
marble hemlock
balmy condor
sure, but I feel like you're arguing that in a niche case you maybe can get an extra gcd or something and therefore more dps. And I'm arguing "just take less damage"
marble hemlock
well yeah, its the lazy mans choice
fading wasp
Feels like the WoWHead guide is awfully centered around us having Shadow dance for m+ when it's saying not to take shadow dance...
marble hemlock
overall, just being faster is just good. whether its you reaching an add .2seconds faster to get a bit more damage in, or getting a debuff out a bit faster so if youre a bit slow to react, maybe the voidzone isnt entirely in the way etc.
you can obviously make an argument for all 3 tertiaries. its all opinions
balmy condor
Feels like the WoWHead guide is awfully centered around us having Shadow dance f...
yeah I'm gaslighting everyone that's actually the goal
marble hemlock
yeah I'm gaslighting everyone that's actually the goal
balmy condor
do any of the talent builds suggest dance? no
marble hemlock
i love avoidance in m+. i loved leeching and often played it over cheat on fights where there was no big burst damage
balmy condor
do I talk about dance and its potential usage? yes
marble hemlock
we now got leeching perma, and maybe getting >10% leech from gear would make us sustain really well without requiring any heals
but only few healers actually play around that, so its kinda not that useful regardless
unless your disc doesnt atone you on purpose or the druid knows you got big leech and wont reju you, it has no impact imo
teal iris
Is storm-eater's boon a 10s channel or how does it work? I see it sims really high in fuu's sheets on any target count but is it gonna be a sim trap trinket?
fading wasp
So I've been looking at wowhead to no real avail regarding what poisons to use, haven't played this spec since 8.2 but am I assuming right that it's Deadly and Numbing?
marble hemlock
nonlethal might depend on the fight
fading wasp
Just general m+ I was thinking
marble hemlock
then ye
balmy condor
yeah deadly numbing
marble hemlock
maybe theres some nasty boss with big aoe where youd wanna swap to atrophic for
i.e. smth like theater of pain
wouldve actually been good there
balmy condor
Is storm-eater's boon a 10s channel or how does it work? I see it sims really hi...
that's the idea yeah
hushed urchin
Does anyone know if Envenom's instant damage scales w/ Mastery? or is it just attack power and vers?
balmy condor
it scales with mastery
copper hazel
⚖️
hushed urchin
sweeet thanks
night delta
Already being a faster runner, stacking speed is also a fun way to flabberghast your raidmates
Like with MCs during jailer p2
"Dafuq Space, why are you so goddamn fast stop sprinting
- I didn't press sprint
"
somber fractal
a friend was asking my questions about playing sin rogue because he was thinking about leveling one as an alt. when i told him you cast rupture twice and garrote 3 times in the opener he thought i was trolling and got mad
fleet whale
well leveling sin from 60-70 will probably be fine
somber fractal
i think he meant to play it at 70. im gonna level sub as usual
fleet whale
but yeah it's quite bad to level prior to getting venomous wounds
marble hemlock
a lot better now tho
used to be a lv34 passive 
playing without VW for 30+ levels 
somber fractal
teleporting around with shadowstrike is so satisfying while leveling
gusty mirage
playing without VW for 30+ levels <a:despair:945597990037504040>
yeah I'd love to meet whoever made that decision
I have so many questions for them
like "how the fuck do you still have a job"
marble hemlock
yeah there was some weird shit
was lv50 talent before as well
err passive
not talent
gusty mirage
fleet whale
plus all that self healing
slim hamlet
Man sin will be soo much fun
marble hemlock
outlaw gonna be nice as well though
with riposte and RB reducing evasion CD
can just pull a shitton of mobs and pop evasion+breadblades every other pull
half moat
Thought DB was falling out of favor
balmy condor
yeh but it's fine for leveling
random fossil
with SBS+SS
What's ss I'm dumb
marble hemlock
shrouded
slim hamlet
Teamwork
uncut echo
I got u Seli
random fossil
Gonna level so fucking hard actually
uncut echo
heavy vessel
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz
gentle apex
I'm going to love step garrote echo rup deathmark vanishing people while they try to start bosses
spice spire
Don’t help seli, he’s a bully
gentle apex
We're rogues
I remember doing BfA progression and getting camped by an alliance multiboxer with 5 hunters
I had one global to get away from the aimed shot or die
slim hamlet
Skill issue
gentle apex
The alliance will pay for this crime for eternity
And I'll be listening to S3RL the entire time
Does the shiv pvp talent stack with wound or nah
deft vault
No
candid geyser
What’s the sin leveling build father whispyr
gentle apex
oak sky
It's my character arc
What if i change your character arc
spice spire
Ain’t no way
uncut echo
Good luck. I'd like to see you try.
regal dune
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
hushed urchin
a friend was asking my questions about playing sin rogue because he was thinking...
WAIT WHAT?
thin ingot
guys ive been unable to find any footage of sin rogue in M+ from the dragonflight beta
anyone tested it at all?
subtle tundra
Yes
thin ingot
is it going to be decent or dog? usually i play at a high lvl so keys are high enough for mobs not to be 1 shotted
subtle tundra
Good
thin ingot
pogchampionship as the kids say
subtle tundra
Me
sour oasis
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz
sour oasis
SIn seems to be the best spec for raiding :/
spice spire
There’s exactly one St fight in raid
oak sky
There’s exactly one St fight in raid
Ok but on how many does st matter 😈
spice spire
Ur moam cares about st
rose violet
There’s exactly one St fight in raid
how to spot a padder
raw raft
balmy condor
hey guys new rogue here is sin looking fun?
rose violet
no
balmy condor
oh ok
slim hamlet
hey guys new rogue here is sin looking fun?
sucks
rose violet
feral used to be budget assa rogue
dire lake
Don't listen to him Whispyr. Play whatever you want and have fun
bronze pike
hidden tech
slim hamlet
https://tenor.com/view/frog-frogs-adorable-animals-cute-gif-23044494
wtf is this
well i know it's a frog but why
balmy condor
well i know it's a frog but why
balmy condor
spice spire
rose violet
ok
oak sky
spice spire
So true bestie, George definitely needs a new collar 
balmy condor
rose violet
socks for christmas i suppose
balmy condor
rose violet
first item is a lamp shade or what
spice spire
Yeah man
spice spire
<:HUH:1011690113010511912>
Buddy gonna make me leak dms Smdh
ember mural
gusty mirage
Buddy gonna make me leak dms Smdh
spice spire
Say less
gusty mirage
lmfao
spice spire
(I sent him a picture of my cat)
slim hamlet
So are you just not gonna defend yourself after that Whispyr?
spice spire
I think he’s busy 
balmy condor
So are you just not gonna defend yourself after that Whispyr?
I'm proud of what I am
also this adds another 15 minutes to FaQ
L bozo
spice spire
balmy condor
gotta finish it at some point
or else the emote clowns gonna hit me with a W8TING in the FaQ channel
slim hamlet
This is a great one, don't have it as an emote tho
slim hamlet
Great we will get it in 2027
balmy condor
just in time for World of Warcraft Battle for Legion: Wrath of the Mists of Draenor
slim hamlet
just in time for World of Warcraft Battle for Legion: Wrath of the Mists of Drae...
- Classic
marble hemlock
The burning battle for legion
balmy condor
- Classic
we get to farm AP
but it doesn't stand for anything, it's just a word in the native language of the space aliens we're killing
slim hamlet
Oh
marble hemlock
The First Space Titan Lords
slim hamlet
Was about to say it was for both azerite and artifact 
balmy condor
nah azerite isn't real
because azeroth awoke and the planet exploded into a new titan
slim hamlet
fake expansion
balmy condor
and it wields sargeras's sword
balmy condor
spice spire
The one in silithus
balmy condor
The one in sideofthis
slim hamlet
marble hemlock
He who pulls out the sword shall be crowned king
timid cloud
spice spire
The one in sideofthis
Side of what 
balmy condor
Side of what <:starege:923197272064426075>
the one in side of that bunani
spice spire
Nice
balmy condor
spice spire
oak sky
How am i supposed to answer questions that are actually in the faq then
gusty mirage
you can do what a lot of people have been doing
and being an asshole about it so people are afraid to ask for help
green aurora
how much of a lose is it if i dont play thistle tea
balmy condor
in what situation
green aurora
like in just normal raiding or even pvp
frosty cedar
any reprimand haters 
green aurora
im trying to find which ability is the less amount of dps lose if i dont use it like if i dont play ER or Tea, bone spike, blind side. I know exsang is to much of a dps lose
gusty mirage
you can drop sbs in pvp
green aurora
what makes it not worth it?
gusty mirage
it's mostly the fact that you'd be trading off something a bit better to nab it, and you have to take doomblade without any of the parts that made it good for pvp in SL
balmy condor
PvE wise blindside and exsang are must takes, and the class tree is pretty much rigid
tea and er are about 6% a piece
and there are no alternatives
strange python
Plz mr whispyr don't get us nerfed
oak sky
And the dh guy called them A tier
strange python
Yeah
strange python
They said it earlier tho
solid mica
yeah classic DH
oak sky
Having trouble remembering
strange python
We need to learn the warlock ways. Call ourselves D tier
balmy condor
Or
I can have some moral integrity
and recognize that it's a game
and instead of just lying in front of thousands of people
I can make a choice to give accurate information
but yeah, the warlock thing works too
green aurora
thank you
broken ibex
Glad we’re all aligned, warlock things going forward.
oak sky
I can make a choice to give accurate information
I actually dont understand why people want anything else
Its like they dont realize that our transparency as a class is why we get such high quality tc
gusty mirage
Its like they dont realize that our transparency as a class is why we get such h...
because they all have this belief that blizzard doesn't have ANY internal data at all
oak sky
because they all have this belief that blizzard doesn't have ANY internal data a...
Yeah man, blizzard records nothing
They love listening to the community for everything
gusty mirage
as if blizzard's sitting there watching max's stream and goes "damn dude rogue is S tier we should nerf them"
balmy condor
I mean I think the bigger issue is people always bitch about "oh rogue TC's just ask for nerfs all the time", but don't realize that "oh rogue TC's just ask for buffs all the time" is literally the exact same fucking problem
oak sky
Moonkin:
balmy condor
like why go through the trouble to weave a narrative and lie to people who know better
when you could just be a fucking adult for 5 minutes
and say not dumb shit
it's the most braindead take you could possibly have as some random discord chatter
"whispyr wants to get us nerfed" nah dude I'm just being realistic
we're at like 97.5k in sims with the majority of the specs around 85k
super sick that we're up there
but we shouldn't be
and neither should any other spec
"oh but look at warlocks, they were up there"
shut the fuck up
when you get pulled over for running a red light, do you tell the cop "oh but officer it's okay, I saw some this guy run a red light last week and not get pulled over"
no
you don't
cause that's stupid
you're stupid
frosty cedar
I don't think warlock even has an APL writer right now which is tragic
oak sky
Classic warlock
dense hamlet
I don't think warlock even has an APL writer right now which is tragic
they are hiding him
oak sky
@balmy condor just make sure they cast impending catastrophe
balmy condor
warlocks are updating their APL
frosty cedar
I want to see where demo lands since I played it in S4 and giga enjoyed it
but yeah I agree 97k is kind of nuts
how much do we lose to go more cleave?
sinful flicker
i love a whispyr popoff
oak sky
Im glad i incited this
ebon notch
dont push his blood pressure agroaner
oak sky
dont push his blood pressure agroaner
Hes 23 bro i think hes ok
fading adder
marble hemlock
Antagonizing the people who volunteer hundreds of hours for this stuff is the easiest and fastest way to get worse TC/information.
grizzled jay
I don't think warlock even has an APL writer right now which is tragic
they just ask thd, xyro, or kalamazi what to do
green harbor
yeah warlock has always had the most unproductive class discord
green harbor
rogues are extremely blessed by what they have here
sinful flicker
im sure this has been asked a lot and i know that it doesnt matter but what would be the highest dps for races in both horde and alliance
sinful flicker
oo dark iron
grizzled jay
Tauren / Dwarf is best for ST for Sub. Tauren / Night Elf for AoE.
thorny pond
why they gotta make all the dragons sexy?
thorn crater
fuckin cow rogues
blizz trolling us
cows look so weird and big and clunky
aestbetic=dps increase
foggy socket
an invisi-bull
thorn crater
go human or belf
gentle apex
@thorn crater Right, but the highmountain tauren bull charge is a stun that isn't on the stun DR so
it's a "knockdown"
thorn crater
"whispyr wants to get us nerfed" nah dude I'm just being realistic
but we already got nerfed. remember that flying daggers nerf
stop
thorn crater
<@218040151006380042> Right, but the highmountain tauren bull charge is a stun t...
bruh 😛
foggy socket
they could nerf exsang
thorn crater
kul tirans have the haymkaer right
thorny pond
so?
thorn crater
i see
gentle apex
step charge is optimal pvp
bronze steppe
Hey, I'm trying to get used to the Sin ST rotation in case I have to play it next tier. I'm a bit confused by the new opener. Why do we Garrote three times, and mostly why are the first two builders Garrote instead of anything else 2nd?
prisma cypress
we gettin the hammer preraid most likely
why is this
thorny pond
Hey, I'm trying to get used to the Sin ST rotation in case I have to play it nex...
3 times? It comes up twice https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue/playstyle-and-rotation
foggy socket
throw some number nerfs on the abilities so i dont have to take 5 extra ones =]
gentle apex
we're ahead in the kingslayer exsang build that nobody is going to play
thorn crater
3 times? It comes up twice https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue/play...
hes right its 3 times, he means the one in vanish as well
oak sky
Hey, I'm trying to get used to the Sin ST rotation in case I have to play it nex...
Basically the 2 garrotes in opener are just really efficient cp generators, and the 3rd one is to make sure we have max pandemic for exsang
gentle apex
everyone and their cousin is going to be playing DTB
thorny pond
oh to max pandemic
thorn crater
we're ahead in the kingslayer exsang build that nobody is going to play
we are ahead in all builds
gentle apex
spriest was best single target for SL and we didn't get nerfed
oak sky
We're a bigger outlier with what it looks like rn than shadow ever was
gentle apex
is it bursty enough for pvp
bronze steppe
Basically the 2 garrotes in opener are just really efficient cp generators, and ...
I see, cuz the 2nd Garrote is still 3CP like when it's from stealth?
prisma cypress
someone needs to be #1, why not us? a melee class with no utility to speak of really should be at the top on sims
thorn crater
wym atrophic is yuuuuuuuuge (trump voice)
oak sky
@bronze steppe extra weird thing is technically you only need the 2 from opener to get the max pandemic for exsang, but the vanish one just makes vanish line up better with deathmark
thorn crater
theoretically you can open ambush snd garrote or garrote snd ambush
but its the same amount of dmg essentially
so tehre is no point
to get confused
oak sky
someone needs to be #1, why not us? a melee class with no utility to speak of r...
We cant die, cheat death+immune AND feint, we have a bunch of mob control which has niche use in raid, and also a raid dr poison that while not always strong will usually be strong
thorn crater
mgiht as well commit the muscle memory in case something changes in the future in the opener
oak sky
Its going to be hard to not take a rogue
gentle apex
I think they're going to tune based on median damage
or RWF comps
so if these WF guilds don't run 3 rogues we'll get a 5% nerf max
thorn crater
the thing is mythic releases on the same week as normal/hc
oak sky
I mean its sort of assumed that there might be nerfs even before world first
thorn crater
which means the nerf will come before that
bronze steppe
<@186548148762705920> extra weird thing is technically you only need the 2 from ...
Okay, makes sense. So if Garrote is so efficient, do we double Garrote after Vanish?
gentle apex
only M+ specs will shine before raid opens
oak sky
Okay, makes sense. So if Garrote is so efficient, do we double Garrote after Van...
No, the two in the opener are just mostly inconsequential you could do anything there and its about equal, also another garrote would overwrite your exsang
Like normally not doing garrote would be preferred in the first 3 globals barring exsang, but really mut or ambush for one of those globals should be about the same like sangreal said
balmy condor
FaQ almost ready
but you can have that one for free
also there's a typo, I know
I haven't proofread
thorny pond
thank you papa
gentle apex
woah amplifying poison doubles up with deathmark and are consumed the same way
bronze steppe
Alright, and the two Ruptures are to get the maximum amount of duration for Exsang I'd imagine?
balmy condor
ye
foggy socket
will there be a "i hate exsanguinate and will accept the 7% dps loss to not push it" section 😂
foggy socket
das fair
balmy condor
it's too powerful to avoid
oak sky
The spec goes hard af without exsang man
foggy socket
i know i hate it =[
dark token
It's not that bad lol especially with the smoother opener
oak sky
When i was doing pug raids it felt so good
dark token
I just did 5 mins of dummies it felt fine as is
Even with exang
U just exang on CD and ignore sync and it's ez
foggy socket
i get it, i am just in the camp that it feels clunky to me personally
foggy socket
i'll meme on it, but i'll do whatever works best ofc
thorn crater
ER is stupid easy to setup for exsang
dark token
Er makes it even easier to setup exang ye
Er garrote rupture exang and you can rupture any cp
foggy socket
who remembers agonizing poison. now that was a talent lol
thorn crater
that always leads to 3-4 which means that if u have an ambush proc waiting u can go into ambush envenom
which is always pretty sick ngl
balmy condor
who remembers agonizing poison. now that was a talent lol
worse than exsang
dark token
Agonizing poison was nice cause I could afk boss
thorn crater
the ambush procs make this shit even smoother
dark token
And my RL would let me
foggy socket
just use more mastery 4head
thorn crater
even if u would be energy starved at some point ure not because of the ambush proccs
gentle apex
@balmy condor when envenom double consumes the amp poison stacks does it double the effect or no
dark token
<@167090536602140682> when envenom double consumes the amp poison stacks does it...
Yes it does
balmy condor
<@167090536602140682> when envenom double consumes the amp poison stacks does it...
envenom x1.35 x1.35
dark token
Multiplicatively it's actually more than double
gentle apex
b.a.s.e.d
thorn crater
ok so i might be dumb but wouldnt that mean its not always optimal to spam envenoms if u dont have to renew rupture and shit?
foggy socket
at the time agonizing poison was stupid due to the simplicity of the rotation. with the changes now, it would be an interesting thing to have in the mix just to have it mess with stat weights
thorn crater
like, how fast is actualyly the poison application rate
how many seconds does it take to get to 20
without being talented into IP
thorn crater
isnt that what the guy asked?
dark token
You are consuming 10 stacks of 2 seperate poisons
thorn crater
for during the DM window?
dark token
Not 20 stacks of one poison
They stack and consume indepenantly
Aka nothing changes about rotation
thorn crater
he said double consume the amp
gentle apex
@thorn crater DM duplicates the spell stack of amplifying poison, e.g. two different icons with independent stack counts
gentle apex
that when envenom'd, take both spell icons down 10 stacks
dark token
You get 2 amp poisons
gentle apex
very
dark token
Enough to ignore it
gentle apex
without ER or thistle tea you can fall behind
balmy condor
amp stacks fast enough to where you don't need to pool
in some situations you can actually just straight up overcap on stacks
oak sky
Thats always lame
balmy condor
especially if you're running improved poison on dragon tempered for example
IP:2 is worse than IP:1 for that reason
balmy condor
3 point dashing untuneable
not even worth 1 point
just a path to dtb
unlucky
exsang capstone levels of power
unlucky
bronze steppe
Oh , one more thing. Do I still want to shiv at max/-1 CP and spam Envenoms only during it or do I slam it whenever?
balmy condor
class tree is hard locked into the same build in all situations because the entire dance column is the worst thing since toasters in a bathtub
unlucky
balmy condor
Oh , one more thing. Do I still want to shiv at max/-1 CP and spam Envenoms only...
slam whenever
thorn crater
class tree is hard locked into the same build in all situations because the enti...
what about hair dryer?
oak sky
3 point dashing untuneable
3 pointers arent a problem
Never were
Exsang how it is rn is fine
balmy condor
what about hair dryer?
sorry cant hear you over the FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
thorn crater
sorry cant hear you over the **FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF...
it's a good thing you have to read me then.
u streaming release?
balmy condor
I am
thorn crater
without maple i hope this time
prisma cypress
how much time do i want on my bleeds before casting exsanguinate? do i still refresh if only 5 seconds have ticked off? 10 seconds?
deft flicker
how much time do i want on my bleeds before casting exsanguinate? do i still re...
All of it. The less time passes between refreshing bleeds and exsang - the juicier exsang is
balmy condor
you have a 30 second rupture? too bad, you're pressing ER -> rupture -> exsang bucko
welcome to 2023
it's the future
prisma cypress
ok
foggy socket
i hate it here
balmy condor
we're slamming so hard
deft flicker
Imagine if Exsang was the spec’s entry node
dark token
class tree is hard locked into the same build in all situations because the enti...
For all specs lmao
balmy condor
Imagine if Exsang was the spec’s entry node
dude I already can't sleep at night man calm down
deft flicker
dude I already can't sleep at night man calm down
Neither can I
prisma cypress
then our entry node would be something we actually use
dark token
Tbh I'm ok with the class tree since I'd rather play ER than dance
With how exang works
thorny pond
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz
deft flicker
But forcing exsang in the tree could allow for more talents interacting with it, like it was with Fiery Brand in Vengeance’s tree
gusty mirage
what more talents would it work with?
it has interactions with venomous, deathmark, crimson tempest, zoldycks, imp garrote, bloody mess, shrouded suffocation, and indiscriminate carnage
thorny pond
Making it mandatory is still against the philosophical class design. It is an active and adds nuance, so it adds value. The alternatives slim the playstyle down and in turn lower the ceiling of the spec
Forcing it down our throats makes it such that either another active has to take its place, or we get a dumb passive there
remove DM and put exsang there? yea no
drifting cloud
alex trebek is dead agreon im sorry
oak sky
alex trebek is dead agreon im sorry
I couldve changed it to ken and you probably wouldve said something about that too
drifting cloud
balmy condor
Rc not rs whispyr
sorry where?
balmy condor
oh fuck
balmy condor
yeh sure
oak sky
Probably lethal dose = ld not lp?
torn atlas
it has interactions with venomous, deathmark, crimson tempest, zoldycks, imp gar...
Sounds very integral to our whole spec 
oak sky
And i think you messed up something in your 2nd paragraph about dtb vs kb
It reads weird
balmy condor
I'll reread it
oak sky
Only other thing i saw is an apostrophe for assassination's in the start of the rotation section
Good faq im sure we'll have more to add in like 3 days
balmy condor
yeh
the dtb isn't fully optimal
but we'll see
tuning etc
and if I need to fix I'll fix
oak pulsar
i like the tier set photos
oak sky
with cool graphics and great info
Thank you for the sneak preview 😘
balmy condor
1232
I feel like that got fixed
maybe I used wrong image
yap definitely me
fixed
aight pin cleaning time
gusty mirage
inner temple
Doin lords work gents
balmy condor
now just need to fix the unfixable
that'll be tonights problem
then wowhead will be done
and then sleep in
work
home
sleep
inner temple
now just need to fix the unfixable
Sorry I’m not available rn
inner temple
Always a good time:)
oak pulsar
same, hyped for release i still need to spend all day tomorrow farming the trinket... ugh
gusty mirage
same, hyped for release i still need to spend all day tomorrow farming the trink...
you got this 
brazen zodiac
same, hyped for release i still need to spend all day tomorrow farming the trink...
may luck be with you gamer
im 333+ kills into this farm, still no daggy. feelsbad
brazen zodiac
felstriker on classic
thorn crater
i legit thought they fixed the drop chances for the boa trinket
brazen zodiac
whats the trinket do?
thorn crater
after the first day i got them all as first time drops
main stats plus a procc thingy
brazen zodiac
gotcha
oak sky
Wait
balmy condor
waiting
oak sky
What trinket is homie farming
brazen zodiac
i too am waiting
pulsar fog
the heirloom?
balmy condor
brazen zodiac
hi whisp hows the waiting coming along
balmy condor
oh you know me
oak sky
Oh
brazen zodiac
oh shit.. you too? dude thats crazy im waiting too!
balmy condor
I decided to crank out the FaQ instead of fixing the togglers in the wowhead guide
brazen zodiac
who needs to be a productive member of society when u parse 99s
balmy condor
because fuuuuuuuuuuuck that
oak sky
I wonder if ill have time to do primal storms on 2 more guys tomorrow
brazen zodiac
not having transmogs in wotlk is goofy xd
sometimes i walk around with a sword just cuz it looks cool lul
oak sky
Oh is tmog cata
final star
I wonder if ill have time to do primal storms on 2 more guys tomorrow
I just did it on 1 and sent the items to each character lol
oak sky
Theres no reason to do it on my rogue really
Because i can also drop some pieces
On the character i want it for
balmy condor
<@167090536602140682> hey what r togglers
togglers are these things
where you hit the button
and the list updates
they are hell on earth
brazen zodiac
oh those r so cool lmfao
i stg in sod i never realized that was a thing until i clicked the boxes and i was like "OOOOO WHISP GOT THAT COOOL SHIT" lmao
brazen zodiac
i googled it and this came up What is toggle code? In software development, a feature toggle is a mechanism that allows code to be turned “on” or “off” remotely without the need for a deploy.
final star
it's like wa load conditions
brazen zodiac
close enough
brazen zodiac
hm maybe CN
balmy condor
the issue is that the list behind it has to be written as if everything is toggled on
so the full list is like 40 lines long
and then you turn stuff off
and only make it show for each click
but there are combination of talents that you have to have make sense
so like ER + Exsang for example
if I add ER and exsang toggles
the list needs to include neither, just ER, just exsang, and both
which then creates an absolute shit show
because I can't have "both"
I can only have "ER on" and "exsang on"
so I have to write the list in a way where it doesn't troll the openers or the rotation if you do some semi-weird stuff
and it's very not easy
and very brain hurt
also because it works off of a list, you have to specify which number you toggle on and off
like if you hit er, toggle on row 25, 27, 32 and 33
but now lets say I missed a step with kingsbane on row 15
so I insert another item between 15 and 16
ebon notch
ive always wondered the design behind them
balmy condor
now the old row 16 is 17
ebon notch
cause the combos you can make are extensive
balmy condor
the old 17 is 18
and so on and so forth
which means all the togglers depending on those row numbers
now need to change
to reflect the new rows
final star
ya cos er replaces a mut
so you hae to hide one and show the other
at the right place
final star
cos it's not just "well change the mut to an er"
ending up with 400 lines because there is so many combinations
balmy condor
and then I get DM's like "hey why don't the toggles support sepsis/cold blood/dance/mfd"
and I'm like
because my brain is exploding
final star
this is the whole reason I moved to one big dynamic group for my wa
balmy condor
final star
was a fucking headache mess
balmy condor
yeah it's the worst
probably a good quarter of the time I spend writing the wowhead guide
goes directly into the toggler logic
final star
tbh it may just be better to have clickable for build only
cos if you take mfd ur a bitch
brazen zodiac
and then I get DM's like "hey why don't the toggles support sepsis/cold blood/da...
tell them to toggle deez nuts
final star
balmy condor
tbh it may just be better to have clickable for build only
I think that fucks with the SEO
if I don't include any toggles for individual abilities
final star
brazen zodiac
hes a guide writer, and a toggle master! what cant this rogue do!
balmy condor
I am not a toggle master
ebon notch
mans not played cod
gusty mirage
you dont toggle?
toggle this 
ebon notch
not enough toggling
ebon notch
toggle this <a:hypergrab:965830301093888042>
yo check dms
gusty mirage
ok
keen mist
Is there a sheet with still existing bugs for rogue
balmy condor
Is there a sheet with still existing bugs for rogue
not fully, basically all of the major ones got fixed
terse otter
those images for openers are sick, u did great job
balmy condor
that's all @verbal mantle
final star
if u pin the first comment
ebon notch
dadsen a real one frfr
balmy condor
That’s a good idea
oak sky
We love dadsen :whenuseedadsen:
final star
guess that channel doesn't show the message
gusty mirage
We love dadsen :whenuseedadsen:
balmy condor
you clicky the pinny
balmy condor
yep
final star
how red faced are you right now LOL!!
oak sky
Dark iron dwarf is goated
balmy condor
yep
gusty mirage
can just add another message with a Top of FAQ - <linkhere>
oak sky
I want my monk to be dark iron
gusty mirage
and link to the first message
ebon notch
i want my dick to be dark iron
final star
balmy condor
can just add another message with a Top of FAQ - <linkhere>
isn't that just this
oak sky
i want my dick to be dark iron
You didnt answer me in off topic i asked how is gingka doing
ebon notch
You didnt answer me in off topic i asked how is gingka doing
who
ebon notch
im like 5 episodes in
ebon notch
let it right?
balmy condor
that's an autocorrect
ebon notch
i dindt hear anyone called gingka
is that from the japanese version or smth
cause im watching that shit dubbed
balmy condor
maybe he means singka?
ebon notch
brain melt
balmy condor
dunno
oak sky
Is metal fusion not the original beyblade?
ebon notch
subbed?
oak sky
Oooh
ebon notch
on CN?
ebon notch
ye
oak sky
I cant think
ebon notch
i just didnt get what you meant so i had ot search for answers
brazen zodiac
xd
oak sky
I thought it was just metal fusion
oak sky
Not really
oak sky
Why would i watch a shounen that i already watched half of
spice spire
oak sky
I watched pokemon and beyblade growing up
oak sky
Like that was just what i watched
ebon notch
as a kid
oak sky
Voltrez?
oak sky
Zapdos
ebon notch
the guy kidnapped a bunch of them
oak sky
I dont think i saw that one
ebon notch
wat
oak sky
Pokemon movies
ebon notch
nice
eventually ill be bored enough with enough free time to go on a nostalgia trip
watch all of dbz and pokemon and shit
oak sky
And i watched like half of pokemon diamond and pearl and all of pokemon black and white
And i watched beyblade for like 3 series or something
Metal fusion metal fury maybe metal masters i think
dark token
I saw jirachi wishmaker latios/latias
Same I watched these 2-3 pokemon movies and nothing else
Latios/latias is the shit
dark token
There was one with groundon?
dark token
Wait I watched one with uhhhhhh this fucking god deer pokemon or something
Can't remember
dark token
They are quite fun honestly
daring minnow
i've been watching some raid beta footage and is Sin rogue the best ST melee right now or is that DH
oak sky
Dh got nerfed so we might be
daring minnow
that's be awesome although I'm pretty sure DH is still best melee spec in m+ even after nerfs from what i've seen so far
magic fossil
guys, in the rwf its possible we see a sin?
oak sky
Sin is god sin has annoying bit of exsang that makes it play kind of suck
oak sky
So, problably high end guilds already know
And of course always remember tuning can change the story
strange python
I actually dont understand why people want anything else
Really? Seems straight forward to me. It is a little bit exhausting to have two classes permanently overly powerful because their theorycrafters are unethical, while being a spec that is, more often than not, middle of the pack.
I wasn't being serious that we should lie about our sims.
balmy condor
Really? Seems straight forward to me. It is a little bit exhausting to have two ...
you realize blizzard has numbers too right
strange python
But it can't be a shock that people are sick of warlocks bullshit
I do, but it's clear that blizzards numbers are not telling them the whole story.
Idk how you can explain aff 9.0 or destro 9.2 if they were
keen mist
blizzard numbers 
strange python
It seems reasonable to me that people have seen 15 years of uninterrupted warlock dominance (except EN) and think "that'd be nice to be for one tier"
balmy condor
blizzard can be smart when they want to be
KB/DTB are within margin of error on sims
manic sonnet
Sin is god sin has annoying bit of exsang that makes it play kind of suck
Exsang was removed
brazen zodiac
i like ur hat whisp
oak sky
Damn i needa hat
oak sky
Ill take this one 👑
subtle tundra
Hi guys has outlaw been deleted yet
spice spire
No
oak sky
Thanks
subtle tundra
What about exsang
spice spire
Nop
oak sky
Well Dime says its gone so it must be gone!
sonic schooner
Whisp you the boss 
balmy condor
Whisp you the boss <:cruell1UwU:943147436795375636>
neat plank
yeah just add exsang as the third ability to IC
kindred rapids
This df rotation is really something
static glacier
KB/DTB are within margin of error on sims
Inb4 realz hacked into the sims and bugged them so the result is close
balmy condor
Inb4 realz hacked into the sims and bugged them so the result is close
I mean does it count if he edits the spell data, which then ends up in sims?
technically he is kinda hacking the sims
static glacier
I’m not ready, give me the blue pill.
balmy condor
we'll circle back in a month
dark token
yeah just add exsang as the third ability to IC
Huge brain
static glacier
Ngl aoe exsang would go a long way to making the ability feel good
kindred rapids
I'm not sure that's what it needs
static glacier
If it’s to remain as it is having it give massive aoe burst would probably make people like it, for the power on aoe if not the playstyle
@balmy condor how long is it worth to hold exsang assuming DM is coming soon if at all?
kindred rapids
If it’s to remain as it is having it give massive aoe burst would probably make ...
Wouldn't that just make it even more broken?
balmy condor
yeah but people like when damage number high
kindred rapids
Exsanged bleeds doing AoE ticks does sound cool
Just make it a fourth capstone
Alternative to IC or something 😂
ancient rain
make exsanguinate a reward for finishing the game
kindred rapids
What does this mean
ancient rain
you get it when you finish wow
static glacier
I mean you could try and make it the same, bonus points if you uninstall details too
static glacier
Small number not bad if I can’t see it’s small
Bruh who tf is this guy, it’s not roll safe
balmy condor
Small number bad
we like when number go up, and we hate when number go down
carnage cooldown goes down
wait a minute
oak sky
We hide our tc from the community and our number stay up
static glacier
I still maintain that the classes with fully hidden tc isn’t a good angle to take
It’s like conducting research but refusing to publish in a peer reviewed journal, only getting critique from colleagues in your institute
kindred rapids
It's nothing like that but okay
static glacier
Ofc it’s not here
kindred rapids
Realz has made a point that they aren't balancing from sims
Whether they did in the past I could not tell you
static glacier
I’m not talking about balancing from sims or blizz
dark token
Blizz literally doing internal tc tho 
static glacier
Just talking about how players manage their theorycrafting
dark token
They do internal playtests and look at live data
kindred rapids
They may also intend for sin to do more st because it's lacking in AoE
static glacier
Is it tho
kindred rapids
Yes?
balmy condor
sub is the strongest rogue spec on 4+ but honestly sin is competitive
like sin is equal to outlaw on 8
and like 5-6% behind on 6
static glacier
I’m taking issue more with the idea that x spec should do more st because it doesn’t beat y on aoe
balmy condor
I’m taking issue more with the idea that x spec should do more st because it doe...
I think the premise is fine
specs have a niche is okay
static glacier
The reality of it can be really messed up
What about a case where a spec loses on both or wins on both
balmy condor
oh it's difficult to get right, for sure
static glacier
What if it wins on a sim but setup for aoe takes too long for that to be a reality in content
final star
They may also intend for sin to do more st because it's lacking in AoE
that is literally false?
realz even said that's not how they balance specs lol
uncut echo
They never design like that
static glacier
I think it just ends up looking like that since sim has been behind on aoe for a long time (since bfa iirc)
But I wouldn’t assume it
final star
it's because it doesn't gain much from putting rupture on that many more targets
shell niche
oh god am i the only one who loves assa but hates the buttonbloat atm?
shell niche
oh god am i the only one who loves assa but hates the buttonbloat atm?
it looks horrible rn
kindred rapids
If sin gets nerfed to where outlaw is on st I think it will be an outlaw (or sub) tier
Obviously they haven't tuned sin this way in the past but I think they should
static glacier
Sin still has the execute / burst profile, if it’s within error of the other specs it could be brought for that
final star
assa execute is off the goop
static glacier
The unfortunate thing is if they can’t tune sin to be close to the others like in sanctum where all three specs were close (before frost set buffs) then it just feels bad if your fave spec is offmeta
oak sky
assa execute is off the goop
Literally better than arms or unholy
final star
yep
oak sky
The primo executies
static glacier
Waaaaaait
static glacier
Literally better than arms or unholy
Is this actually real?
final star
yes
static glacier
I swear both specs have absolutely cracked execute
final star
and it's not even close
oak sky
From what ive heard yeah
static glacier
Need to look into uh and arms sims
oak sky
I think arms is close tho actually
Unholy has omega insane execute burst though
Especially with lust
static glacier
Are we looking at %dmg deviation from median / mean of their previous dmg or just number during execute (35% or 20%)
uncut echo
Zoldyck affects KB right
oak sky
Yes
oak sky
Are we looking at %dmg deviation from median / mean of their previous dmg or jus...
My info was based on like raw dps during execute
oak sky
Probably mostly
But its like 60-70% of our damage getting a 45% buff which is pretty significant
static glacier
You know, having an execute niche for assassination makes a lot of sense
oak sky
Yep
final star
not really
midnight atlas
Its good being only on one side, otherwise we would need to spread talents
oak sky
We dont really know what the future holds for either tuning or spec changes
For all we know zoldyck could go where deadly poison is
In like 11.0
And then they kneecap kb
dense cedar
the 2nd raid will have every boss start in execute range
oak sky
Pretty much everything depends on the circumstances
static glacier
not really
Like I guess we can take zold with dtb but it might be difficult to fit other key talents
oak sky
Its all about the circumstances