assassination

[nocturne current]

But if you want to play passive bomb/ST, yeah swap Assassin for Rush.

[steel ridge]

venom rush gives you energy for blindside procs doesnt it?

which is free

[limber lion]

remove ttk and the poison talent and take MA + Iron Wire

No Iron Wire in m+ = trolling

Or if you'd prefer take Exsang + Iron Wire instead

:-)

[nocturne current]

Yeah I have two or three variants for diff dungeons.

[limber lion]

Every single one of those variants should have Iron Wire

regardless of dungeon

[nocturne current]

Nah..

[limber lion]

?

You were literally the person talking about threat and people dying

and now you're saying you don't take iron wire

LUL

[nocturne current]

Yeah, but not all dungeons need a silence the party can't handle at the cost of DPS loss.

[thorn fox]

15% damage reduction on 8 mobs every 45 seconds isn't nothing either

[strange python]

If you're losing a key timer by a difference of 100 DPS you could be playing better

Also your healer would offset that damage output by not having to heal

If ya wanna not take iron wire for memes and to do more dmg on meters go for it, but don't use bad logic xD

[nocturne current]

TTK isn't 100 DPS.

And like I said, not all dungeons need silence, nor the damage reduction, at all.

[gusty mirage]

your tanks must love you

[strange python]

Man just say "I wanna do more dmg and I don't care if it's not the ideal build" and no one would be arguing

[nocturne current]

There's no "ideal build".

There's a build to whatever you're going to do, in certain week and whatever certain comp you have in party.

[strange python]

Ahri alf account?

Alt*

[marble hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/alf-tux-gif-20040572

[subtle tundra]

the only time you will catch me not playing iron wire is if it actively fucks with something important in a dungeon. The only time i've had iron wire fuck something was in azure vault, the flowers at the start where you want to sync them up

[candid geyser]

This guy a bigger troll than I am

[limber dagger]

when not running PB and everything is doted up in AoE do i just CT for the instant dmg or envenom prio targets?

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/turtle-slap-verlox-gif-21248033

[marble hemlock]

why youre hitting me?

[gusty mirage]

waking you up so you can see how wonderful you are

[marble hemlock]

clearly im still asleep

[burnt latch]

bros tryna doctor strange the talent trees its not that deep

[oak sky]

In 1 future you dont go iron wire

Hes gonna find it

[burnt latch]

Lmfao

[subtle tundra]

hi weed

[burnt latch]

hi varas @subtle tundra varas

[nocturne current]

Take wire to Upper, with a proper comp and I'll laugh at the uselessness of it, what else you want me to tell you.

[kindred oriole]

...

[subtle tundra]

wat

[kindred oriole]

Really I do not understand your point.

About not taking Iron Wire.

[subtle tundra]

idk

you can play upper in dragonflight yourself

im sticking to the current dungeons

[gusty mirage]

DR is never useless

in any situation

ever

[kindred oriole]

I mean it's useless in a +8.

[nocturne current]

It is, in many situations.

[gusty mirage]

that's an objectively false statement

[kindred oriole]

But that's about all I can think off.

[subtle tundra]

and then you mutilate instead of fok on 3t for safety

[nocturne current]

Ok doctor.

[gusty mirage]

Ok.

[kindred oriole]

...

[gusty mirage]

you didn't have to mention me to reply

but you're wrong

[nocturne current]

I'm not, lol.

[gusty mirage]

no

[burnt latch]

Oh shit he played the uno reverse card on the drstrange statement

[gusty mirage]

that's the thing

you are

[burnt latch]

Doctor oxi

[gusty mirage]

less damage taken by tank, more your healer can do damage

[drifting cloud]

xd

[gusty mirage]

it's a simple fucking equation

[nocturne current]

Then, you keep your rhetoric and play wire all time, what else you want me to tell you.

[burnt latch]

I love u

[drifting cloud]

you can play whatever you want but spreading bad info as gospel is against the rules of the discord

[burnt latch]

WHO REMOVED MY HERB

????????

[subtle tundra]

me

get fked

[burnt latch]

Is back dw

[nocturne current]

It's not bad info, you're just too tunnel vision to understand the value is dependent on comp, affix and dungeon.

[subtle tundra]

waw

[kindred oriole]

err.

[subtle tundra]

cant imagine a single situation where i dont play it in a key where my choices matter

even if upper was still in df, i'd play it

[next edge]

You + me =happy

pretty simple indeed

[gusty mirage]

nah apparently DR is "useless"

[subtle tundra]

me + sleep = 😏

[gusty mirage]

and we're too tunnel visioned to see the light

[grim tangle]

So when you play FPS's you only use a shotgun if there's 2 enemies or more so the other pellets aren't wasted?

[subtle tundra]

yes i use shotguns cause they are unskilled

and im bad

[nocturne current]

If you can kite it, yes DR is pretty useless. This is hard to comprehend? Alright mate.

[subtle tundra]

the dr is at the start of the pull

[kindred oriole]

...

[next edge]

Sorry for the off-topic but a raider just gquited becasue we gave Sigil to a fresh dracthyr whos gonna main it on DF so he could level faster

and im still in shock

[burnt latch]

Isnt kiting a damage loss

[subtle tundra]

most of the time

[minor aurora]

how is assa ST looking in DF comparatively to outlaw?

[drifting cloud]

better

[earnest remnant]

lmfao

[next edge]

Stronger in ST

[gusty mirage]

Alright mate, let's apply this concept to you saying "it's useless in Upper"

[next edge]

weaker in low cleave

[gusty mirage]

where the fuck are you kiting in upper?

[burnt latch]

And if kiting is a dps loss and wire makes u not kite = value

[earnest remnant]

kiting back out the entry portal to do another dungeon

[next edge]

Kiting is not a dps loss as outlaw you can pistol shot

big braing

[minor aurora]

is there a percent like how much id be giving up if i stay outlaw in ST or how much id be losing in mythic plus? i cant seem to find a streamer for beta that plays assa so im curious as to how it looks in multiple contents or should i work on 2 sets given the content?

[nocturne current]

Except in certain pulls, you kite or die, and not even 15% DR would save you, so yes = value.

[next edge]

Depends a lot mate

by pure sims

seems ST is around 10% if im not mistaken

as Assa is ahead

but outlaw has a sick cleave thanks to BF

[drifting cloud]

@burnt latch bro save your mental

[next edge]

M+ is just so hard to say or predict

[subtle tundra]

Look harder

[burnt latch]

What key level have u done where this comes true? Cuz ive done some keys and never encountered this before just curious

[minor aurora]

oh man okay that is a large margin, so i think i should pick up two sets given content! thank you!

[burnt latch]

Nah this is prime content

Learning at its finest

[nocturne current]

24

[burnt latch]

Ohhh i see

[subtle tundra]

Quick someone tell this guy to check my stream

[burnt latch]

Makes sense

[next edge]

Doesnt sets just swap

when you swap talents?

[fleet imp]

Assa in keys is kinda bruh?! Everytime tanks goes brrrrrrr

[minor aurora]

im not very good with twitch lol but ill definitely keep checking to see i know a lot of outlaw streamers but not necessarily assa

[next edge]

I recommend you Varas

[minor aurora]

i think it is more so weapon wise and what to focus

[next edge]

he's a toxic cunt

but he does keys as assa

[burnt latch]

@subtle tundra streams only assa keys

[gusty mirage]

wow

[limber lion]

varas barely plays assa

he's a fraud

[minor aurora]

okay sorry @subtle tundra for the insult lol

[next edge]

you ignored my love message get rekt

[gusty mirage]

[next edge]

Don't be sorry

fuck varas

[subtle tundra]

You didn't insult me lol. Im not well known

[nocturne current]

Varas has more rating with Outlaw than Assa = fraud.

[minor aurora]

what is your stream so i can follow right now so i can watch whenever you're live?

[burnt latch]

TRUUUUE

[subtle tundra]

It's linked to my discord and there's vods up from this weekend

[gusty mirage]

I don't even bother typing in your chat anymore

you don't fucking respond

asshole

[subtle tundra]

I don't???

[gusty mirage]

you responded to minalba and left me on read

[subtle tundra]

😭

[gusty mirage]

it's okay, I still watched

support the homies

[subtle tundra]

Ask me what talents I play and I won't say anything and open my talent tree

🤓

[burnt latch]

I tried to tell him to make his weakaura look decent and he made it look good, and then reverted the fucking change

[nocturne current]

Last time I saw Varas, he was complaining about the pools damage in Vault, which I'm sure it's still not tuned.

[subtle tundra]

If there's one thing I hate, is pools that do dmg the instant you touch them and almost kill you

And outlaw

[nocturne current]

"wjat the fck is this shit bro, can't mvoe, cant shadowstep, cant sprint, cant do shit"

[minor aurora]

thanks for that ill watch some vods later when i get back home!

[gusty mirage]

I watch varas to hear him yell at his tank

A+ content

that cos

"THANKS FOR LETTING ME RESTEALTH"

lmfao

[burnt latch]

Varas’ tank dont remember me

We went to kindergarden together

[subtle tundra]

I swear dk tank mains are a template human

They are all the same

[nocturne current]

What happened to Afto, is he really gonna finish without doing a 30 as assa tho

[keen viper]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[onyx wind]

lets say exsang is coming off cd in 10 seconds and theres 10 seconds left of rupture

and ER is 10 seconds aswell

how do we play it

small rupture into ER refresh into exsang? or just ER exsang

[subtle tundra]

Uh by what I understand, smol rupture thing

[onyx wind]

thats NASTY

[subtle tundra]

Well a max pandemic is a max pandemic

[onyx wind]

that situation happens a LOT

[kindred heron]

Does anyone stream assa beta keys?

[minor aurora]

i know someone who does

😄

[nocturne current]

If you get me keys, sure.

[burnt latch]

u can craft keys on beta lol

[onyx wind]

only rupture we cast during opener is after ER right?

[torpid hinge]

think it goes rupture -> ER -> rupture in opener

[onyx wind]

so what does the opener look like

[balmy condor]

it's either rup -> er -> rup -> exsang
or it's rup -> mut to 6 -> rup -> exsang atm

opener would be something like
gar snd gar rup er rup exsang deathmark sbs shiv env kingsbane

or something like that

[onyx wind]

ah so u just spend the 1cp on a rup before ER

makes sense

[balmy condor]

would be 3 cp

because shrouded

[onyx wind]

ye with talents

not that it matters

[balmy condor]

should also mention it's for 70

[nocturne current]

lol wtf is this

[balmy condor]

I'm personally a fan of
gar snd gar sbs rup er rup vanish gar exsang deathmark shiv env kingsbane

err

sorry

that

[onyx wind]

syncing vanish is that important?

[balmy condor]

not atm

but I'd hope it is

[onyx wind]

opener looks good tho

[balmy condor]

a fairly stock standard opener

[onyx wind]

u replace a mut with garr refresh

prob worth

[nocturne current]

Just 12 keys.

[balmy condor]

right now the sim does
gar snd gar sbs rup mut mut rup exsang deathmark er env kingsbane shiv

[nocturne current]

We can find more.

[onyx wind]

is it worth skipping sbs at all during first ~10 globals?

[balmy condor]

I mean 9.2 opener was longer

sin has never had short openers

[balmy condor]

not sure yet but it sounds really bad to me

it's an idea though

[onyx wind]

assa opener was weird since shrouded was introduced

but having max pandemic rupture in the opener prob solves a lot of the clunkiness with refresh lineups i had

[nocturne current]

Guitar Hero: Assa Rogue Opener edition.

[onyx wind]

B) its fun

also am i bad or why does my alacrity keep falling off

[balmy condor]

that's just assassination man idk

[balmy condor]

because the proc rate got nerfed

it's like 80% uptime now

[onyx wind]

💀

'atleast' its only 5% haste

not life or death if u get RNG'd

[balmy condor]

I mean it's completely passive

why do you care

just stop tracking alacrity

[onyx wind]

cant

i need to feel like im in control

[balmy condor]

you can feel like you're in control

by deleting your alacrity weakaura

like you should've years ago

[static glacier]

I'm in control

[balmy condor]

stop tracking useless shit that you don't play around

[nocturne current]

I feel like you're going to love Blindside.

[balmy condor]

free yourself

[onyx wind]

i do play around it

[balmy condor]

then you're making a mistake

[onyx wind]

even tho i should prob not

[balmy condor]

stop doing that

[nocturne current]

https://tenor.com/view/smile-morpheus-laurence-fishburne-the-matrix-sure-gif-22197097

[onyx wind]

same with elaborate planning and envenom

its the FEELING

[subtle kiln]

me trying to understand when people have defensives on their WAs when they’re not on CD. stop wasting real estate

[balmy condor]

elaborate planning shouldn't be played around

pooling on envenom is fine

it's minor, but it's fine

[onyx wind]

elaborate planning still doesnt pandemic right

[balmy condor]

correct

[onyx wind]

those mf

[dense herald]

So it’s not worth trying to clip the last second of elaborate planning with envenoms?

[balmy condor]

[onyx wind]

noone can stop me idc

i will keep doing it till i die

[balmy condor]

assassination rogue stop overcomplicating their rotation for no reason impossible challenge bro

[subtle kiln]

those beautiful bastards made exsang bis. we love them.

[balmy condor]

on god

[onyx wind]

we had months of having almost no rotation

we had to invent it for ourselves

[balmy condor]

sin rogues will find any excuse they can to try and billion IQ their rotation

[onyx wind]

we love exsang

[oak sky]

"Despairge"

[balmy condor]

WELL ACKTYAULLYLY WHISPYR YOU ARE WRONG, DURING BOSS INTERMISSIONS I POOL CP TO MAINTAIN ALACRITY SO I CAN GET AN EXTRA 2% HASTE WHEN THE BOSS COMES BACK AND DO MORE DAMAGE FOR THOSE 3 SECONDS

[drifting cloud]

based

[oak sky]

Not anymore!

[balmy condor]

WDYM ITS NOT A GAIN TO ENVENOM AT 0.028385928929588349023487823864876 SECONDS LEFT ON ELABORATE PLANNING I DO THAT EVERY TIME

[nocturne current]

Only to get obliterated by the carrion swarm 2 seconds after.

[balmy condor]

just play your rotation idk man

like

they're passives

they're gonna do their thing

let them do their thing

[onyx wind]

hell no

B)

CLIPGANG

relearning exsang is so fun man

im just hitting dummies

[nocturne current]

This is the man who will trade Cheat Death for Nightstalker, I believe.

I knew someone would.

[balmy condor]

I'm not sure I would be the one throwing stones mr avoid shadowstep at all costs

[onyx wind]

a gain is a gain unko

but obv i can tell the difference between uptime and sim gain

[nocturne current]

What can I say, I'm a mobility god.

[oak sky]

[nocturne current]

What Whisp and scath said. Although, I respect your focus for passives bro. I can't.

[onyx wind]

last time i played exsang was in uldir

lot of cobwebs

[oak sky]

Yo whispyr whens the article drop

[balmy condor]

I was told "overnight" about 20 hours ago

[onyx wind]

is raidbots apl semi up to date?

or is there secret hidden sauce

[eager sorrel]

Trickle release by spec for the wowhead engagement though

[balmy condor]

it's up to date

[oak sky]

Sub to my patreon for the secret sauce

[balmy condor]

the hidden sauce is on my sims

but it's not sauce

cause it fucking sucks right now

[copper hazel]

is it more of a gloopy slop right now?

[balmy condor]

it's more of a spaghetti monster

[fallen charm]

I'm almost swapping cheat death for subterfuge

but seriously I miss being able to hearthstone/mount/eat/cannibalism in stealth

[marble hemlock]

I miss the old days where you could go on second screen and respond on irc or discord, tab back into wow and you'd still not be full energy and lost no DPS

[verbal knot]

i used to do that after the assasination buffs in CN

[nocturne current]

Go go dude. 4 garrotes OP.

[onyx wind]

rotation isnt super dynamic

u always have the same lineups, same refreshes etc

when u play enough 5-10 minute fights its back to alt tabbing

[burnt latch]

tbf stuff like this is what makes the game fun for a lot of people

[sonic spire]

(Me tryna come back to sin after not looking at it at all :3 ) is it always worth it to double bleed (for max pandemic) going into exsang, or just opener?

So like if exsang just came up and I have say 3sec on rupture would I hit full CP rupture > exsang or should I hit a like 3-4cp rupture then full cp to get the full pandemic addition going into exsang?
(Hopefully question made sense and there is an answer currently, idk how much min/max stuff y’all have looked into already)

[vast forum]

is it actually worth using vanish to slightly extend garrote for exsang?

[onyx wind]

u mean in opener yoppa?

[vast forum]

ye

[keen viper]

is there an opener guide?

[vast forum]

garrote is at 18 sec duration when you vanish

[onyx wind]

i just garrote->rupture->er->rupture->exsang

works 100% of the time

and always lines up

[burnt latch]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rbAaNyJg1Gf2Um2iYK5iRD check what the APL does here and learn it 🙂

[onyx wind]

if it was worth it, it would prob be because u can sync ur next vanish to deathmark easier

[sonic spire]

gotcha, ya that makes sense, and you jsut sac the pandemic time for garrote?

[onyx wind]

ye fuck garrote

[sonic spire]

be nice to garrote :3

[onyx wind]

idk if its good its just easy and always works

and it feels good B)

[sonic spire]

ya, it sounds like it should play well, hopefully whispyr can clarify if its actually worth doing but i dont know how in depth sim tests have gone yet :3

[oak sky]

Not positive where vanish ended up going but the first 3 globals are garrote snd garrote so that would give you the extra duration anyways

I know there was talk about using vanish right before exsang as well though

[gusty mirage]

[sonic spire]

that works in the opener, but not like mid rotation

[oak sky]

[onyx wind]

if u are using vanish in opener before exsang u dont wanna garr->snd->garr tho

its just wasted no?

a global i mean

[oak sky]

Last i heard we were refreshing before exsang mid rotation if it would make the bleeds longer than max

Not sure if all that sim work is fully finished though as you said

[balmy condor]

coming soon ™️

[balmy condor]

I mean, I don't care what people find fun to be fair. You can find whatever you want fun, I'm just informing you that it's worthless, and you can do with it what you like

[nocturne current]

Please tell me it opens with the 4 empowered garrotes.

[subtle kiln]

I just want to pump during execute phase.

[onyx wind]

oh ye we have execute

thats why i was so far off simdps

now i can sleep at night

[subtle kiln]

doubt

[balmy condor]

you always max pandemic gar and rup before exsang. The double gar stuff from opener is mostly shrouded

in your hypothetical you would full cp rupture -> gar -> exsang, but you would ideally not let rupture tick down that low. You completely ignore pandemic for exsang prep

[balmy condor]

no it's actually quite reasonable

sin out of execute is like 70k on juiced sims, and 100k in execute

[subtle kiln]

reason has no place here

[balmy condor]

the difference is quite large

[burnt latch]

Well thats just objectively wrong, but u do u

[oak sky]

Do we force 6 cp rupture by the way

For exsang

[balmy condor]

what's objectively wrong

[vast forum]

but wouldn't you just single garrote in opener then since you vanish so early and you get full pandemic anyway

[sonic spire]

oo okie so the idea is to always refresh bleeds at the start of the pandemic window instead of whenever is convenient during it?

[vast forum]

feels like 2nd garrote is a complete waste of energy, other than the CP it gives

[balmy condor]

that micro-optimizing passives that are worth barely 2% overall isn't worth the effort?

[onyx wind]

and cp in opener matters nothing

[burnt latch]

letting audacity drop when u could keep it up during an intermission

[balmy condor]

yeh

[subtle kiln]

I know. was blasting like danny devito on a low health training dummy. actually more satisfying than arms execute.

[balmy condor]

go for it

[onyx wind]

the audacity 😔

[balmy condor]

+25 dps bro

[burnt latch]

why are u deciding whats worth for people?

[balmy condor]

poggers

[gusty mirage]

because he's papa

[balmy condor]

because if a sim can't tell the difference why do you think you can

[subtle kiln]

feels

[gusty mirage]

assassination execute is

[oak sky]

[onyx wind]

its like vacuum cleaning and not doing the last little corner under ur bed

[subtle kiln]

we shall revisit the hipster spec in 10.1 maybe

[burnt latch]

can u show me a sim where u do a stopattack for extended period of time with mobs that dont count towards your damage but provide u resources

[ebon notch]

what

[balmy condor]

I did one in 9.1 for sylv intermissions cause I had a custom fightstyle set up for it

[burnt latch]

painsmith, first thing that came to mind

[onyx wind]

why is stopattack worth it?

[burnt latch]

huh

[onyx wind]

or, whats the idea behind it B)

[balmy condor]

and maintaining alacrity through every intermission ended up being 0.15%

[burnt latch]

stopattack as in intermission

[subtle kiln]

you can technically setup every fight in the game

[onyx wind]

oh

[subtle kiln]

have at it hoss

[balmy condor]

and that's with pre-nerf alacrity

which you can't even maintain consistently

alacrity is worth about a quarter of what it was before

[oak sky]

Yeah im never doing it now lol

I did it before because it was just something to do

[balmy condor]

so if you want to argue with me that 0.04% damage is worth playing around warcrieft, I guess you're correct

I can't stop you

you are the master of your own fate

[next edge]

Who the fuck even tracks alacrity

[ebon notch]

i can feel it on my cooldowns

[next edge]

lol

[oak sky]

With it not being 100% its just a luck thing

[sonic spire]

i know we love the track alacrity or not discussion but superfast if someone doesnt mind, do we save both shivs going into deathmark so we get damage amp for the whole CD duration?

[oak sky]

Feel this

[subtle kiln]

hear me out. what if that .04% saved you 200 wipes on anduin?!?

[balmy condor]

no, but you save both for kingsbane, which you save for deathmark

[next edge]

both shivs into KB

[balmy condor]

so kinda

[subtle kiln]

trick question. you didn’t bring rogues to anduin.

[gusty mirage]

if alacrity uptime is why you didn't kill andy

[sonic spire]

what if im a DTB enjoyer

[burnt latch]

oh yeah im not doing that with current alacrity either, but idk think its just weird that you're saying its worthless when people are fiending for a 0.2% dps upgrade item for months some people care about that = not worthless

[balmy condor]

then you just shiv on cooldown

[sonic spire]

just send on CD

pog we love that ^.^

tysm

[spare crow]

0.2% ~= 0.04%

[burnt latch]

worthless for you, would be better said

[burnt latch]

ended up being 0.15%

[next edge]

Wait what if you were Tauren on Anduin

that means -250 wipes

coz 0,002% dps

right

[oak sky]

Haha i get it

Invisibull

Because its a bull

And hes invisible

[spare crow]

ikr

[spice spire]

Ur gonna get banned I s2g

[next edge]

ban DN

[spice spire]

Omw my way!

[subtle kiln]

[balmy condor]

well there's a difference between a 0.2% item and a 0.04% gameplay shift that requires tracking a passive that you can't control consistently and can't be accurately simmed without cranking the iterations way higher than normal in order to get the error margin down low enough to where it can tell.

If a sim running 8k fights can't tell the difference, and you have to tell it to run 80k to even know which is better, no human will ever tell. You can do 1k jailer pulls and not even come close to the accuracy of a sim on 1k iterations just by human error alone. And then the sim on base settings does 8x the pulls on top of that. It's one thing to optimize for a damage gain, and another thing to optimize for something so minute that it's imperceptible to a computer

[subtle kiln]

pin pls.

[white lance]

if anyone here is using my wa pack: i added pandemic refresh window in the latest version

[burnt latch]

if keeping alac up in the intermission of painsmith for example was only a 0.04% dps gain then yeah I agree its not worth doing and youre right

my assumption was it would be higher than that

[oak sky]

Tbh

[dark token]

Yeah but it made a boring intermission more fun to minmax

[burnt latch]

so apologies for this then

[dark token]

While the mage terrorists made us take 200 pulls

[oak sky]

Its like 5 stacks up for the adds

[hollow river]

[oak sky]

Probably let you get your 2nd rupture out .5s faster or something inconsequential like that

[balmy condor]

well during shadowlands alacrity was closer to 0.15 from what little I saw, which like sure it holds more weight, there was SOME merit to doing it, even when it was so minor

but nowadays its just actually 0dps

[hollow river]

it was just something to do imo

like sylvanas runs

[burnt latch]

yeah as I said im not doing it with the current iteration

[balmy condor]

it went from like 50 dps

to 0

[dark token]

I dropped alacrity, now should I track both EP/envenom buff uptime

[hollow river]

keeping alacrity up saved my sanity, or caused further insanity

[subtle kiln]

kept you awake after you made your sandwich.

[burnt latch]

my initial point was that these small minmaxes were something that a lot of people cared about even if they were small

[next edge]

So alacrity are wasted points just to get Deeper

so sadge

[balmy condor]

and they can care about it all they want

[burnt latch]

not that specifically doing it with alac is worth it

[balmy condor]

that's their thing

they can do that

[vast loom]

could it actualyl be negative dps if you are in an intermission with 5cp and attempt to refresh alacrity and miss it?

[balmy condor]

you can play the game however you want

but to claim it gives a competitive advantage is a little silly

[burnt latch]

yeah ofcourse, thats why I got agitated when u called it worthless, if people care about something and theres a gain to its not worthless

[dark token]

What do you guys think the node with least use in class tree and spec tree will be

[subtle kiln]

they cared to try to overconplicate a simple spec that the rng would give more of a gain or loss then playing a mini game to stay awake on farm.

[balmy condor]

the gain is fun

if the gain is fun, do the fun thing

[burnt latch]

well in the current iteration yes, in the previous iteration it was a slight dps gain

so u could come out with 20-50 dps for your efforts

[subtle kiln]

variance isn’t considered a gain last i checked. could be mistaken.

[balmy condor]

you're not going to be higher on your meters or killing the boss sooner or timing the key faster because of it, and it would require literally thousands of pulls or perfect to prove that slight dps gain is actually a slight dps gain

but yes

on paper, it's a slight dps gain

and if that's exciting for you

go for it

[burnt latch]

that we can agree on

[balmy condor]

I'm not trying to stop people from doing stuff like that

[onyx wind]

small things add up, the difference between doing one of the things might be really small

[balmy condor]

but I'm also not going to sit here and tell everyone to do it because it's poggers sick nasty damage

[burnt latch]

its not going to make a difference on anything else than possibly the color of your parse, if that

[onyx wind]

but the difference between doing none and all will be significant

[balmy condor]

I doubt it would even change your rank honestly

[next edge]

This conversation is so pointless

lol

[burnt latch]

youre pointless

[balmy condor]

that feels very cope

[gusty mirage]

WOAH

[next edge]

As alacrity

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/water-spray-stop-sprinkle-water-gif-11895255

[balmy condor]

like of course if you play wrong it's going to matter

[burnt latch]

DONT SPRAY ME

[gusty mirage]

i'm just trying to help you grow

[onyx wind]

i get ur point tho, theres no reason to try to enforce these things onto new players

[subtle kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-my-god-disaster-desperate-ed-o-neill-headache-gif-22426090

[burnt latch]

i drank a litre of water earlier

[balmy condor]

but you can't sit there and tell me there's like 35 micro-optimizations on the spec that will end up being 1% in practice all together

like that's just not real

the gain from doing all those insane min-maxes is really low

and that's considering you actually do them properly

[onyx wind]

my chinese kingsbane opener will beat u all on logs dw

kingsbane mut mut mut mut mut

[balmy condor]

chinese kingsbane opener from legion servers cause dragonflight won't exist

gottem

[subtle kiln]

@gusty mirage how was your weekend?

[gusty mirage]

[nocturne current]

https://tenor.com/view/crossing-arms-folding-arms-hm-no-stern-gif-11583004

[oak sky]

when do we get to play with er man im ready for that tbh

[nocturne current]

Come on boys, who started it this time.

[gusty mirage]

twas okay

how was yours

[onyx wind]

ur already playing with ER

its called being kyrian

or are u a dirty SBS'er

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

why be kyrian in prepatch

[subtle kiln]

good. just got done teaching doggos

[oak sky]

why be necro in prepatch

why play in prepatch

[onyx wind]

practice

[burnt latch]

why play in prepatch

[balmy condor]

I'm playing with my balls, and combo points are like balls, and animacharged cp are blue like my balls

[oak sky]

necro is on my talent tree

[gusty mirage]

based

[dark token]

Why play

[burnt latch]

saying this i have to raid tonight

[subtle kiln]

just to troll whispyr

[onyx wind]

raiding in prepatch 💀

[oak sky]

my cum is blue

[onyx wind]

did u buy a new graphics card to play above 20fps?

[next edge]

A guy left on todays raid because we didnt gave him a trinket

Left = gquited

[onyx wind]

chad

i would have done the same

shame on u

[balmy condor]

whats your favorite flavour of crayon, I like green

[burnt latch]

ive not noticed fps issues from 9.3 to prepatch

[oak sky]

greens my favorite color

but flavor....

[balmy condor]

is that why your name is agreenon

[next edge]

Red is best crayon

[burnt latch]

sry lambda wrong ping

[oak sky]

yeah actually

[burnt latch]

slow fingers chat moving too fast

[oak sky]

a for andrew green for the color of my wall on for ion because i was doing chem homework before i installed wow

[balmy condor]

@next edge your face is dumb and your brain is stinky

[subtle kiln]

new assa chat apm

[balmy condor]

sorry wrong ping

it was meant for the rest of chat

[burnt latch]

i used to raid with a guy called andrew

it didnt end well for him

[oak sky]

unfortunate

[onyx wind]

i used to raid

[burnt latch]

gz

wish i could say that

[oak sky]

literally nobody in raid calls me agreon

[onyx wind]

it didnt end well

[next edge]

Thanks

[onyx wind]

that we can agree on

[next edge]

you're actually right

[oak sky]

my name is too accessible

[onyx wind]

get it?

agree on?

[burnt latch]

andrew got kicked from the guild and banned from the discord are u on the same progression arc?

[next edge]

easiest mom joke ever

[onyx wind]

i gquit after 5 slg pulls and never looked back

[oak sky]

just glad to get a joke thats not based on my last name for once 💀

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-soup-gif-22632572

[oak sky]

my guild cant kick me im too cute

[burnt latch]

based

def not the same path then

andrew sent his pp accidentally to the guild snapchat group

[oak sky]

bruh

sounds like this dh we had for a few weeks

[balmy condor]

wait pause

there's a guild snapchat group?

[burnt latch]

dont ask it was weird

[oak sky]

he sent irl photos of himself with his stepmom

[burnt latch]

LMAO

[oak sky]

and his sister

[balmy condor]

I thought the pp pic was the worst part of that sentence and then I got to the end

[onyx wind]

guild snapchat group

[gusty mirage]

now that I know the lore behind your name

[burnt latch]

im happy to announce that I was indeed not part of this snapchat group

[gusty mirage]

we can't be friends anymore

[onyx wind]

sounds like a lot of middle aged men sending pictures of their dogs

[balmy condor]

common Warcieft W

[oak sky]

teach me yours

[gusty mirage]

I thought oxide was cool, cut letters out, became oxi

that's the lore

[burnt latch]

which also means I missed the opportunity to ss the pp for max meme content

[oak sky]

im REALLY bad at original names

[balmy condor]

the lore behind his name is he's legally white so he got the white frat boy name

[oak sky]

most other games my name is just andrew

[gusty mirage]

WOW

[burnt latch]

he shoulda sent it to the discord server isntead

for ease of access

[gusty mirage]

I'm out here catching strays

tf

[balmy condor]

don't talk about your ex like that

[gusty mirage]

one of us is happily married right now, and one of us plays wow

who really won

[sonic spire]

outside of if you have like a 2:10 boss fight or whatever, is it ever worth exsanguinating the DM bleed? I assume its a loss in any other case because of the duplicated rupture/garrote but just wanna check

[oak sky]

its real bad

[burnt latch]

dw oxi my last name translated to english is literally "the low"

ive been down bad

[oak sky]

i could make a joke here

[drifting cloud]

nobody

[burnt latch]

chances are ive heard it

[oak sky]

no

not about your name

[burnt latch]

oh

lucko

[oak sky]

[burnt latch]

[onyx wind]

how does IC work with added melee range from acrobatic strikes?

im hitting every taget dummy put on this earth

[oak sky]

i think ic like has a range around you

but you can initiate it from further away

[gusty mirage]

true

[oak sky]

because you can garrote or rupture from further

[onyx wind]

ah

[oak sky]

shes broke ur up

[onyx wind]

makes sense

[burnt latch]

up in her dms begging for her to come home

[oak sky]

i should call her

[burnt latch]

go for it king, we stan a simp

[oak sky]

if you were a dating app they would call you ok cute pid

[balmy condor]

I would block you

[burnt latch]

get in line

[oak sky]

like you didnt already

[royal lantern]

thats why you are single whisp

[oak sky]

whispyr might be the least single guy i know

[royal lantern]

the voices dont count

[balmy condor]

@latent vale are you a voice in my head

[royal lantern]

you need to let go

its not healthy

[latent vale]

Sometimes I think I am

[balmy condor]

oh

[oak sky]

[balmy condor]

in like a..... cute I'm thinking about you way

right

[latent vale]

You tell me

[royal lantern]

time to get some sleep, my job is done

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

y..yes?

[latent vale]

Okay

[balmy condor]

okay

[balmy condor]

your 8 hour shift of tail wagging?

important job

[royal lantern]

i wish

[ebon notch]

whispyr's sanity is held together by dental floss

watching him unravel is honestly better than cinema

[twilit hollow]

that sounds a little too sturdy

[gusty mirage]

why are you awake at 1am

[ebon notch]

i went to bed at 9am

[balmy condor]

dental floss and a gf that sometimes thinks she's a voice in my head apparently

[gusty mirage]

wtf is wrong with you amman

[ebon notch]

..

[balmy condor]

yeah habibi

[gusty mirage]

answer my question

[balmy condor]

what's wrong with you

[ebon notch]

idk

[ebon notch]

whats wrong with YOU

[balmy condor]

where do I start

[ebon notch]

at the end

short and sweet

[balmy condor]

kermit sewer slide

[earnest remnant]

Being normal is boring

[ebon notch]

quiet rodent

[balmy condor]

I'm not sure a raccoon is considered a rodent

[subtle kiln]

it’s a trash panda

[balmy condor]

they just regular mammals right

I don't think they're even considered vermin

[earnest remnant]

No but I am

[ebon notch]

[royal lantern]

we all are vermin

[ebon notch]

says you

[balmy condor]

no, some people are british

[royal lantern]

the B Word

[ebon notch]

[earnest remnant]

Mingin

[royal lantern]

[ebon notch]

its just my passport i promise

[gusty mirage]

he's just jealous that I can call you a lawyer now

[earnest remnant]

[ebon notch]

imagine being jealous of lawyers

[royal lantern]

i am

job is not as shity

[ebon notch]

@gusty mirage how much do you like your job

[gusty mirage]

I fucking despise it

[ebon notch]

mhm

[royal lantern]

welding during winter sucks

[ebon notch]

at least your're warm

[oak sky]

what did oxi say to stealthi

we are both lawyers

[earnest remnant]

Love the work hate the people

[royal lantern]

hahahhahahahah, no, its negative most of the time 🙂

[gusty mirage]

imagine being jealous of someone who wakes up at midnight and sleeps at 9am and doesn't work midnight shift

[subtle kiln]

underwater weld

[ebon notch]

have you tried putting the welder inside your clothes

[ebon notch]

i woke up at 5pm

i even got to see a bit of sunlight

[gusty mirage]

nerd

[royal lantern]

bruh, that is such a weird job

its so extremely dangerous, very unhealthy and has the worst conditions possible

but you also earn a fortune because not many people can do it and you dont even work most time of the year

[ebon notch]

mad that i have nothing else to do but play wow?

[oak sky]

i woke up at 2 pm @ebon notch we are not the same

[subtle kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/sunlight-blind-gif-9818319

[gusty mirage]

not even remotely

[ebon notch]

and i hate it?

[royal lantern]

but i dont wanna die, its not an option

[earnest remnant]

It fckin snowed here today. Straight up not okay

[gusty mirage]

ayo twins?

[ebon notch]

imagine applying for jobs you're overqualified for and not getting responses

or even getting denied within a few hours

really good for motivation

[gusty mirage]

I don't have to imagine that, I just made my own job

[subtle kiln]

you also only do it for a few years because of the buoyancy issue i believe.

[royal lantern]

yep

[nocturne current]

Underwater welding became a meme of how good it is of payment.

[subtle kiln]

ngl if I was a welder I’d go out to the keys and do that

[ebon notch]

im jealous

[subtle kiln]

the inland shit hell no. too much sediment to work in.

[nocturne current]

Underwater IT.

[ebon notch]

the bends sounds fun af ngl

[subtle kiln]

did underwater scent work with the pup on saturday. was fun

[oak sky]

dont leave me hiiiiiiiiiiigh

[ebon notch]

what

[oak sky]

smdh

[ebon notch]

dont shake your dick at me

[keen sandal]

am i tripping or did they remove vendetta on the Df beta

[oak sky]

replaced by deathmark

[keen sandal]

ahh ok

[trim gust]

any of you guys have a good weakaura set-up for sin rogues going into DF?

[gusty mirage]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[carmine token]

You're a gigachad ❤️

[sonic spire]

what trinkets are people using in ST on beta?

[thorn crater]

from what i understand the trinket tinkering hasnt stopped

so you cant give a safe answer on that

[sonic spire]

thats why i didnt ask which ones are best, just curious what people have been feelin/liking/trying out

[thorn crater]

noone gives a straight answer on that XD

[celest ruin]

hopefully no double onuse trinkets

[sonic spire]

ya im jsut doing 3-3.5min dummy testing with all of them rn to kinda get a feel, i can post logs in here when i finish if anyone is interested

[balmy condor]

@thorn crater don't ever make me sim openers again this is so pain

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

legendary 6 muts in a row

also you should be scared, 6 muts in a row so far is like, the most reasonable opener according to the bot

[deft flicker]

Does the bot know why it does that??

[balmy condor]

yeah

because I told it to

except I'm a dumbass and it snagged on a line and just looped

over and over and over

that's why it says c over and over

[viscid spear]

So at least we know Skynet is still a ways off.

[deft flicker]

[balmy condor]

it's a very loyal bot

but it uh

can't really do anything on its own

[teal bloom]

If you mutilate someone 6 times they are surely dead, Skynet knows

[candid geyser]

Guys remember..
If sim is bad... bot is bad... == Whispyr is bad

[deft flicker]

be bot
get instructions
execute them
get blamed for doing the stupid

[balmy condor]

if you have any crazy opener ideas btw now would be the time

I wrote down a bunch and they're just tacking onto the list

[oak sky]

Are you forcing max cp rupture

[balmy condor]

I am

[bleak sky]

Shiv garrote shiv vanish garrote kingsbane rupture

[balmy condor]

denied

[bleak sky]

Thanks

[twilit hollow]

have you tried the opener without exsang

use the secret black magic to delete exsang

[deft flicker]

Triple garrote into IC garrote for 3+ targets

[balmy condor]

yep :)

[balmy condor]

[deft flicker]

Assuming the subterfuge thing still works

[oak sky]

Do the sepsis MA thing

[balmy condor]

also just single target atm with kingsbane+sbs+er preferably

[oak sky]

Again! Again!

[balmy condor]

it does but sims won't reflect it

[nocturne current]

Sin secret techniques.

[teal bloom]

Untalent exang -> garrote -> snd -> garrote

[balmy condor]

opener 1: gar snd gar rup er rup exsang deathmark sbs env kingsbane shiv

opener 2: gar snd gar sbs rup er rup exsang deathmark shiv env kingsbane

opener 3: gar snd gar sbs rup mut/ambush to 6 rup exsang deathmark er env kingsbane shiv

opener 4: gar snd gar rup sbs mut to 6 rup exsang deathmark er env kingsbane shiv

opener 5: gar snd gar sbs rup er rup vanish gar exsang deathmark shiv env kingsbane

these are the ones I'm testing atm

so

check those, see what you don't like

make a new one

and then I also need to check variants where SBS is in deathmark instead of before

but that's sorta opener 1 and it kinda sucks

so I'm not very excited about it

[halcyon tapir]

with exang on bleeds, does that mean you have to refresh them during shiv/kb window? could it be better to mut/env/mut after deathmark, wait for bleed refresh then shiv/kb?

[balmy condor]

you want to KB after deathmark?

you would be missing so many poison applications from the duplicated poisons during deathmark

[halcyon tapir]

ohhhh i didnt realise it duplicated poisons!

[balmy condor]

yeh

[nocturne current]

It even makes coffee!

[teal bloom]

Does kb get damage increase from both the ticks and the instant damage?

[balmy condor]

yes

[hushed elbow]

wouldnt you want to deathmark > kingsbane since deathmark lasts longer?

[balmy condor]

yes

[hushed elbow]

didnt know if this was a question or not

[balmy condor]

it was a question for the guy who suggested holding kingsbane till after deathmark was done

[oak sky]

The guy was talking about not lining up exsang and kingsbane

[hushed elbow]

👍

thanks for clarification

[balmy condor]

man all these openers kinda blow

[oak sky]

Exsang moment

Sbs snd gar

[hushed elbow]

do you open with garrote or ambush

[balmy condor]

garrote 100% of the time

:/

on 5 min

it's like

I guess?

[oak sky]

My honest reaction 😐

[balmy condor]

idk why those are particularly better

I'm gonna be honest

[celest ruin]

would gar snd ambush opener be good since gar would already be full duration after vanish gar?

[balmy condor]

zzz is the default btw that opener is gar snd gar sbs rup mut to 6 rup exsang dm er env kb shiv, which should in theory be the same as opener 3, but opener 3 is worse

and I can't tell why

[prisma cypress]

in opener 1 why do you shiv after envenom and kingsbane instead of before?

[balmy condor]

good question

but you would need to run subterfuge for that

so maybe ambush snd gar

[celest ruin]

oh right i forgot they separated that

[safe knot]

What makes sin rogue fun iyo?

[balmy condor]

because that's what the sim does right now and seems to think it's fine dunno

[balmy condor]

there's gonna be an article soon on wowhead about this similar to the other ones posted for fire mage and prot warrior

[dense herald]

I thought you wanted to shiv before kb whisp?

[balmy condor]

yep

that's what I think too

:)

[oak sky]

[balmy condor]

the sim keeps telling me to eat shit though

what can you do

[dense herald]

Haha wtf

[oak sky]

Is it something to do with total globals inside deathmark

[balmy condor]

shouldn't be

[dense herald]

Outside of opener does it tell us to shiv before kb?

[balmy condor]

uhhhh

no

[dense herald]

Well then

[balmy condor]

yeh idk

there's a lot of tiny stuff like that

it's doing some weird stuff

I don't really like it

[dense herald]

Well regardless, love your work, keep it up 👌

[halcyon tapir]

I might be getting a little crazy here... during KB if envenom is already up... press mutilate and overcap cp, for the extra poison applications?

[dense herald]

Will love your work even more if you find a shorter opener x

[oak sky]

Probably getting a little crazy

[deft flicker]

Tell the sim to eat shit instead. It won’t be able to disobey

[balmy condor]

definitely not

[balmy condor]

I can't get any smaller

sorry

just too many buttons

[oak sky]

Remove exsang

Opener shorter

[balmy condor]

gar snd gar sbs rup er rup vanish gar exsang deathmark shiv env kingsbanethis is about as small as you'll get it

[oak sky]

They said it was hard

[prisma cypress]

you probably already know this and/or don't care, but the pre-patch talent tree section still has the template text

[balmy condor]

what template text

[prisma cypress]

"Talk a bit about different talent build options available. Link talent calcs below, at least three tabs, few free to add more."

[balmy condor]

oh

that's cool

let me yoink that out real quick

[spice spire]

Ur huge pal

[balmy condor]

wait sorry where

[prisma cypress]

wowhead sorry

[balmy condor]

the talent page doesn't have that as far as I can tell

oh it's on the overview page

found it

and poof now it's gone

[balmy condor]

these openers aren't

[spice spire]

I’m waiting for the return of Navi

[balmy condor]

okay well that's not it

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

I hate it

[spice spire]

I’m sorry papi

I’ll be back to my regularly scheduled nonsense Tuesday at least

[balmy condor]

I refuse to believe the sim is playing correctly

and yet it keeps spitting out the same nonsense

and saying it's better

[spice spire]

[thorny pond]

The Sim is an average LFR player. Sorry, didn't change it back after April Fools

[spice spire]

Beachpatrol spotting

[balmy condor]

explain to me

the difference

between these two

[ebon notch]

Slice and dice instead of rupture

[spice spire]

^

[balmy condor]

brotherman the first screenshot starts at 0:02

it already gar -> snd before that

[ebon notch]

Rupture is delayed by a second

[balmy condor]

yeah, you delay rupture for 1 second to get sbs 1 second earlier

[spice spire]

Wait

Why is the rupture on an sbs the n er

[balmy condor]

the sim says that's a 200 dps difference on 5 min

TWO HUNDRED

for moving the rupture and sbs around 1 second

think about that

[oak sky]

No shot

[spice spire]

[ebon notch]

Maybe SBS cranks just that hard?

Gotta prio it

[spice spire]

Buddy I’ll show you a high crank

[balmy condor]

that's the funny part actually

the top screenshot

where sbs is 1 second later

is the one that's +200

[thorny pond]

Hidden tech obviously

[balmy condor]

but any opener where I delay sbs more than that is just terribad

so like

what the fuck does it want from me

[ebon notch]

Idk is there a buff that rupture triggers that SBS benefits from?

Can't really think of anything else

[balmy condor]

lethal dose

[thorny pond]

rupture procs EP

SBS tick snapshots it with that up?

[balmy condor]

PoV simulationcraft @ me right now

https://tenor.com/view/get-real-get-real-cat-amogus-gif-26005070

[balmy condor]

yeh I mean maybe just EP into the instant damage from sbs

is just better

[thorny pond]

Is SBS in the sim gaining the 5% indefinitely?

[balmy condor]

but you should still have it from the slice

at the start

so

[balmy condor]

nah

[thorny pond]

Wouldn't be the first time in sim history a buff was continuous

[balmy condor]

idk man

shits weird

back to the mines with me

[thorny pond]

half meme, why the heck doesn't DM duplicate Sepsis?

[balmy condor]

because it's not garrote, rupture, or a lethal weapon poison

[thorny pond]

Sounds pretty lethal to me

[gusty mirage]

you clearly haven't seen the damage it doesn't do

[indigo mulch]

[fleet whale]

So if I decide to run DTB for a Mythic plus dungeon, would I use instant poison for trash and then swap to amplifying for bosses?

[balmy condor]

no

you would always run deadly + amp

[fleet whale]

hmm ok, thank you for answering

and for giving me a serious answer for wanting to use DTB in M+ lol

[honest vessel]

very well written post whispyr c: i enjoyed it

[balmy condor]

C:

Ty

[spice spire]

@balmy condor this article was a miss, and my lawyer will be contacting you shortly for this exsanguinate slander!

[oak sky]

@gusty mirage do your thing

[spice spire]

In all seriousness good write, and a good read 🙂

[spice spire]

????)

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/my-honest-reaction-my-honest-reaction-meme-my-reaction-to-that-information-my-reaction-gif-26274528

[oak sky]

isnt he your lawyer

[spice spire]

https://tenor.com/view/my-honest-reaction-honest-reaction-my-reaction-to-that-information-my-reaction-to-that-information-meme-my-honest-reaction-meme-gif-25892310

[spice spire]

No man, I’d never ask oxi to go against whispyr

[balmy condor]

I've had to get legal advice from oxi

[oak sky]

[honest vessel]

[gusty mirage]

conflict of interest

sorry

[oak sky]

the prio cope in the article 💀

[gusty mirage]

call stealthi