assassination

[terse otter]

u dont use pistol shot just when it glows 😄

ill sit today and will try to work on assa

[thorn crater]

oh shit i didnt evne know that lmao

[terse otter]

i rly like idea of bleds

[next edge]

assa raid and m+ is such a diff world

[terse otter]

and hate BF machanic

thats all

[next edge]

in terms of how hard it is

[subtle tundra]

You did for most of the last 2 expansions

[oak sky]

any time you play qd you use it when it glows

[next edge]

Dpeends on your CP

[thorn crater]

i wanna cry 😦 i got the beta access email 2 weeks ago and i didnt notice

[oak sky]

Well yeah you dont overcap obviously

Well

Nevermind

You do because its not a loss of cp because ruthlessness

Iirc

But like now its fan the hammer

Which is even more different

[thorn crater]

is there a way to import settings binds and ui from live to beta?

[slim hamlet]

ui has a copy code, and keybinds are real fast to change

[next edge]

And way better

tbh

[oak sky]

Qd is still around

[meager granite]

i know a famous rwf rogue player who claims that outlaw is most skilled spec in the game tho...

[thorn crater]

ty

[slim hamlet]

who could that be

[oak sky]

Idk every spec takes a different skillset

And every spec is 100% learnable

[slim hamlet]

Surerly havoc is the highest skill floor spec

[oak sky]

Havoc is a lot different in df

[nocturne current]

I played Outlaw for a long long time and I had to switch because it was just braindead to play... and was either Outlaw or Sub.

[terse otter]

well, outlaw is just high apm, im familiar with it cuz im comming from enhancement, maybe thats why its easy for me to get it working

[slim hamlet]

Outlaw is highest dps apm right?

[oak sky]

Outlaw or fury

[nocturne current]

Yeah but half of the APMs is just spamming Dispatch

[oak sky]

Thats exactly the point right

What makes a spec difficult for some people doesnt make it difficult for everyone

[slim hamlet]

Imo feral is prob the hardest

but also one of the specs I've played the least

[oak sky]

Imo it doesnt matter at all

[nocturne current]

Then 1/4 for checking the bones and 1/4 for a combo point check or two and that’s it.

[oak sky]

Read the wowhead guide/discord or learn from someone who knows their shit, play something for a while and anyone can master it

Applies to all specs equally

The real skill in this game is less in the dps rotation than all the other stuff

[slim hamlet]

what do you mean

[oak sky]

Movement, defensives, intangibles

Thats what makes you a really sick player

[slim hamlet]

dps is all that matters

I have my dps meter full screen with see through

[oak sky]

Yeah same

[nocturne current]

The only time Outlaw was meaningly challenging mentally, was during that time they had the Keep Your Wits About You thing stacking to 33 and changed the gameplay based on stacks

[oak sky]

If i'm not at the top i turn off my monitor

[nocturne current]

Other than that...

[oak sky]

No point in looking

[slim hamlet]

True and real

I log LFR

[terse otter]

haha that was a good one 😄

[slim hamlet]

unironically

Still hitting grey parses is a bitch

[oak sky]

Undergeared?

[slim hamlet]

Well

It was ironic

But I thought adding the "unironically" would make it more fun

[oak sky]

Sorry its like 5 am im not totally lucid

[slim hamlet]

Fair

[oak sky]

No, its not fair

I'm a moron

Call it like it is

[slim hamlet]

Fair

[next edge]

It is not my man

but sure

It is not "just high apm" at all

[oblique wasp]

hibois question - when is the last tick of garrote please?

[next edge]

It is a widely statement

[slim hamlet]

So is there a better way to find a raiding guild, than on wowprogress because it's hard to find actual still active guilds, that also raids around the level I'm looking for

[next edge]

Raider.io released a recruitment sistem

[slim hamlet]

I'll check it out

[next edge]

It has a lot of customisable stuff

to take an "approach"

to your objectives or goals

[slim hamlet]

I remember doing it for a m+ team, where I thought it sucked

lol

[thorn crater]

hm where do i add the addons on the game? i see only wow classic wow classic era and wow retail. shouldnt there be a folder for wow beta? or does it take it from somewhere else?

[balmy condor]

should be there

[balmy condor]

wdym by that

[thorn crater]

playing from an internet cafe makes things hard to locate since you have restricted access to hard drives... ty gonna figure it out

[oblique wasp]

my question is - each garrote tick at a rate influenced by haste and so on, and I9 would need to know when is the last one so taht I know I can refresh new garrote without missing hte last tick - the point I need to figure out is if I have empowered garrote and it is running out - do I hit new normal garrote after it defo fallen of, or like 0,5 seconds before it drops?

sry I wrote like shit, I in Wow situation kinda right now 😄

[balmy condor]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[balmy condor]

you refresh at any point in that last 30%

[oblique wasp]

I understand pandemic

[balmy condor]

okay

so then just refresh during that

[oblique wasp]

but my question is - if I refresh empowered garrote with normal one, I am losing the increased ticks that were overrriden no?

[balmy condor]

yeah

empowered garrotes you just let tick out

[oblique wasp]

ok so I wait until empowered falls of then

a reapply from scratch

[solar tangle]

does empowred garrotes have different spellid? i need a WA for this shit, i know myself xD

[balmy condor]

yes

[balmy condor]

no

the last tick of any dot is actually literally at 0 seconds remaining, and it's called "the partial" because it's a fraction of a tick, since with haste it doesn't add up evenly

so

now you know some dot trivia

[next edge]

When they run out you re-apply, yeah

[balmy condor]

partials can get really yucky

I wouldn't worry about it

just let empowered always run out

[oblique wasp]

alright

[next edge]

End of the day

[oblique wasp]

ok thanks very much

[next edge]

a 1 second tick

won't change anything

on a 5-6-7 minutes fight

[balmy condor]

yeh

[oblique wasp]

I understand but I am using other WAs and addons which are set up so that if I make mistake in rotation, it honks like factory siren sooo 😄

[next edge]

uh.

Honestly I would never use such addons or WAs

because it is very unlikely that they will tell you the rotation more than the basics

because what you do can change a lot depending on the situation

[oblique wasp]

its more like another layer of motivation

[swift oak]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[oblique wasp]

anyways thank you very much for your advices 🙂

[thorn crater]

question about the opener. apologize in advance if someone already asked and answered. can we just garrote SND garrote rup ER rup Exsa DM? and then SBS muti shiv KB envenom. at that point garrote should be running out and vanish garrote again?

ure only missing 2 seconds of a maxed out stealth garrote

also iu dont know to which point i need to add the ptr=1 so raidbots accepts my sim 😛

[balmy condor]

yeh opener sounds good

[balmy condor]

into the custom apl box is fine

that's actually almost what the apl does atm as well

opener wise

except it goes gar snd gar sbs rup

[winter gale]

Guys, I returned to the game after almost two tiers...can I do some dmg as assa tonight in CN prepatch with 290 gear ? 😄

[balmy condor]

and then it's doing a stupid and going mut mut rup and not er rup like it should

which is something I'm hoping to fix

[slim hamlet]

yep

[winter gale]

With Whispyr's Kingsbane build?

[thorn crater]

i jsut thought this would be better cause u have max duration on rupture for ur exsa at that point and it lasts thorugh the entire DM

[slim hamlet]

I'm doing great dmg with that build as 292 atleast

[balmy condor]

but the yucky thing is that if you rup er rup, you don't have it for er env kingsbane

so then you gotta go and figure out how to get the cp for the env without delaying the kingsbane

[thorn crater]

it says invalid command. i tried to do quick sim should i go on top gear?

[balmy condor]

it's a little messy

[balmy condor]

uh, flick on expert mode and slap it into the header

[thorn crater]

uhm blindside proccs a lot.

[winter gale]

If I may ask ur leggos? I'm geared as for SoFO: Venthyr, Unity/Duskwalker

[balmy condor]

yah okay but when do you mut

[thorn crater]

SimC input is invalid, details above

Invalid SimC Input (check for copy/paste errors):

Player Caleybeta unable to download item id=201808 information from Blizzard, reason: The document is empty.
Player Caleybeta unable to download item id=201809 information from Blizzard, reason: The document is empty.
Player Caleybeta unable to download item id=201973 information from Blizzard, reason: The document is empty.
Player Caleybeta unable to download item id=201973 information from Blizzard, reason: The document is empty.
Player Caleybeta has no weapon equipped at the Main-Hand slot.
Player Caleybeta attempting to use action garrote_deathmark without the required main-hand weapon (requires One-handed Axe, One-handed Mace, One-handed Sword, Fist Weapon, Dagger, wielded Unknown).
Player Caleybeta attempting to use action rupture_deathmark without the required main-hand weapon (requires One-handed Axe, Two-handed Axe, One-handed Mace, Two-handed Mace, Polearm, One-handed Sword, Two-handed Sword, Staff, Fist Weapon, Dagger, Spear, wielded Unknown).
Error: No active players in sim!

[balmy condor]

fun

that means the ptr thing didn't pull the beta items

and you did this?

[balmy condor]

that's what you should be using yes

[winter gale]

Is Duskwalkers now affecting Deathmark?

[balmy condor]

yes

[winter gale]

Ty @balmy condor ❤️

[balmy condor]

np

[thorn crater]

υεσ

yes

[balmy condor]

hmmm

[thorn crater]

lemme dm u the simc from the addon

[balmy condor]

I just did the same thing with my beta char and it worked fine

[thorn crater]

do ineed to download a simc for beta?>

is it a different one?

[balmy condor]

no, raidbots doesn't care

it knows

[slim hamlet]

Just making sure, we def wait like the 10-15 secs for vanish before using Deathmark and kingsbane on the 2nd go right?

If that made sence

[balmy condor]

no but this actually I think answered where we get the cp from

[grim breach]

How does Find Weakness work exactly? I don't see it add a debuff, does it trigger off a stealthed garrotte? And does it affect all abilities or just auto-attacks, the tool-tip just mentions "All your attacks"

[balmy condor]

it triggers from ambush, and affects all non-item sources of damage

[slim hamlet]

Really, i've done it all wrong then

But which cp?

[balmy condor]

the opener one I was mumbling about earlier

[slim hamlet]

oh

[grim breach]

Just on ambush? That's.. disappointing. Thanks for clarifying!

[balmy condor]

cause the whole issue is that if you go rup er rup exsang deathmark, now you don't have er to go deathmark er env kb shiv

BUTTTTTTTT

if we pull the vanish forward

and go rup er rup vanish gar exsang deathmark

now we have the 3cp from the gar

so then we can shiv env kb

which sounds pretty good to me

[royal lantern]

you just use DM, and use vanish garrote when its ready if i remember right

whisp can scold me if im wrong

[thorn crater]

ngl it feels smoother

and u dont have neither CP nor energy issues

due to tea

and honestly 9/10 times

[balmy condor]

so then the full thing would be

gar snd gar sbs rup er rup vanish gar exsang deathmark shiv env kingsbane

and then you're just chillin?

[thorn crater]

you will land in one of the other empowered CPs to use an enevenom pre KB

[balmy condor]

is there a glaring mistake in that sequence

[thorn crater]

i held SBS into DM dunno if wrong

[balmy condor]

that sounds wrong

not like conceptually

but just damage wise

early sbs is typically very good

[thorn crater]

btw u dont vanish

[balmy condor]

wdym

[thorn crater]

so if u dont SBS

[slim hamlet]

we really doing vanish that early?

[balmy condor]

it's an idea

[thorn crater]

the emp garrote only ticks 3 seconds before u use exsa

[balmy condor]

it was a gain without exsang

didn't show gains with exsang

[strange python]

whenever I see Whispyr or Guy say something like "wdym" I duck for the inc truth bomb

[balmy condor]

okay I'm with you so far

[thorn crater]

u do gar SND gar rup (SBS) ER rup exsa DM shiv env KB

vanish gar muti gar

would t hat work?

[balmy condor]

no

because that shiv is 1cp into the envenom

you can't maintain the envenom debuff at the start of the kingsbane

[thorn crater]

hold on i might be missing something

lemme try it

[balmy condor]

if anything, you would gar snd gar rup er rup THEN SBS, exsang dm shiv env kb

but I'm not sure sbs + shiv makes enough cp for that envenom

[thorn crater]

ok so

[balmy condor]

that's why I want to squeeze the vanish in because that's a guaranteed 3cp gar

[strange python]

man, I've been playing OL so long I forgot about the intense opener discussions in sin

[balmy condor]

also auto-syncs

so that's fun

sbs earlier

[thorn crater]

ure right about cps

[balmy condor]

that's good

[thorn crater]

u exsa DM muti shiv

and either ure on an empowered one

or u can use a second SBS t oget there

so u envenom kb

and at that point garrote expires

so u vanish garrote muti garrote second shiv envenom

ngl i think sbs makes it easy to manipulate landing on an empowered CP

[balmy condor]

Yeah but you can’t guarantee it is the issue

Like if ER doesn’t crit, you land on 2

Then you sbs

It crits

[thorn crater]

if u dont u just muti again to get it to 5 CPs and envenom then

[balmy condor]

Now you’re on 2 again

[thorn crater]

ure one GCD behind but its the same thing no?

[balmy condor]

Yeah I guess but why do that when you can guarantee it right

[thorn crater]

to extend empowered garrote

u still vanish like 3-4 seconds after DM

so u can still sync them for the second use

[balmy condor]

Cause if you vanish before the exsang and sync everything up, you will always land on 3, then shiv to 4, and get that animacharge, so it doesn’t matter if the er crit or not earlier since that’s 2 or 3

[thorn crater]

ok here is a questino about the ER

is there a a CP that is always empowered?

or are they randomized between 2 and 5?

[balmy condor]

Yeah but it’s been shown that it’s better to vanish before the Deathmark and sync it that way versus delaying in opener and syncing afterwards

[balmy condor]

Without resounding it’s random, with it’s always 2-3-4-5

[thorn crater]

wait then im confused what is the issue

can ER crit?

[balmy condor]

Of course

[thorn crater]

and give an extra CP?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[thorn crater]

ah i see

so u land on 3 instead of 2

for the empowered rupture

[balmy condor]

But your issue is actually if ER doesn’t crit

[thorn crater]

no its not

u always get to 2

and have 3-4-5 available after

no?

u use ER at zero CPs

[balmy condor]

Cause the problem you run into is ER not critting, going to 2, and then sbs critting into 2 cp so then you have to mut after

Which is a variance you need to account for

Where as pulling the vanish earlier means the ER can be 2 or 3

Cause the gar shiv will always be 4 or 5

[thorn crater]

i see where we have the incongruence

its the SBS pre exsa

[balmy condor]

Also I really want the shit to sync up and vanishing during Deathmark doesn’t accomplish that

So I’m trying to fucking force it

[thorn crater]

tahts why what im saying makes sense for me but not for u. i had in mind u dont use it pre DM

if u dont SBS pre DM

what im saying makes sense right

[balmy condor]

Yeah I instantly reject that

[thorn crater]

u always land on 2

[balmy condor]

If you don’t, it makes sense

[thorn crater]

i mean is a 5 second delay that important?

on SBS?

[balmy condor]

But I’m throwing that out instantly because no shot you delay sbs that long

[balmy condor]

We changed the APL in shadowlands to sbs basically as early as possible cause the sim loved it

There was ideas to make it open with sbs and then snd gar

That’s how good it was

[thorn crater]

i see

[balmy condor]

I mean obviously I’ll still test sbs during dm

But I’m very skeptical

[thorn crater]

what about swapping doomblade and SBS to TTB and a point in dashing?

and change the opener to what i said

wit hKB always obvi

i dont see this shit even being worth discussing without KB

[balmy condor]

Just changing the talents like that is already refuted by sims

Like the opener would make sense without sbs how you proposed

But it’s also instantly -2% or something and lost cleave potential

As you take more things out it gets less confusing though which could help make a baseline

[thorn crater]

im so mad i cant sim what i want right now

i dont get why shit isnt recognized

hm

if u run the tests on delaying SBS till DM can u let me know howl it goes?

cause NGL i dont see how 5 seconds of SBS ar ebetter than a longer duration on garrote after it has been repeatedly buffed

but i could just be stubborn and dumb lol

[balmy condor]

It’s a reasonable assumption

My gut just rejects holding onto it for so long

It just feel icky

Also fuck the mid DM vanish bullshit

[thorn crater]

i mean

technically

its earlier than before

[balmy condor]

Really don’t like that one

[thorn crater]

because u exsa with non max duration garrote

its like 3 seconds less so it comes off cd like 3 seconds into DM

which makes it fine?

[balmy condor]

Yeh I get that, but the sync still isn’t happening yet

[thorn crater]

ngl i wish i could test taht shit myself

but i dont know how

[balmy condor]

It wants to slam everything on cooldown so bad that vanish will never land together again

[thorn crater]

at least i can see the feel of it now that im in beta

[balmy condor]

Yeh

That’s actually more helpful a lot of the time

[thorn crater]

though i do assume

even if the sim does not like it

[earnest imp]

Whats the target limit to start using fok?

[thorn crater]

in MOST situations

[balmy condor]

3

[thorn crater]

holding DM for 3 seconds is not only fine

its prolly happening anyway

cause, mechanics

moves

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[thorn crater]

etc

thats why i think what im saying works

and it technically lines up

[balmy condor]

Yeah like in reality probably fine

But the sim either needs to take an L and just absorb the dps loss and claim it’s more human

Or I gotta find some way to get rid of the edge cases and find a gain

[thorn crater]

if we are talking about a 0,8 dps loss

fuck that shit im doing it

even 1,something would be fine

cause ure not sitting there hitting dolls

2% is a lot though ngl

[balmy condor]

Yeah sure, everyone sets their limit differently

I think my best sync logic was like -0.7

But we’re not gonna just hit the sim with -0.7% because it “feels better” for a human

[thorn crater]

no i get that

[balmy condor]

It’s rough out here

:(

[thorn crater]

i still think im onto something though ngl

cause it gives better flow to the opener

[balmy condor]

Yeh I mean it sounds reasonable

[thorn crater]

SBS feels awkward that early, same with that vanish

u waste a lot of dmg with that

[balmy condor]

The other issue is like, getting the sim to do that

Without destroying the rest of the logic

Cause openers aren’t a thing we specifically optimize for

[thorn crater]

when you create a custom apl, cant you change just hte first lines of it?

[balmy condor]

Unless it’s major

[thorn crater]

like, take into consideration the second u DM

and say allow SBS cast only after X seconds

[balmy condor]

Sure you can, but you’d have to either make new lines that have a time constraint

Yeah

Exactly

[thorn crater]

btw i have NO idea if what im saying is doable 😛

[balmy condor]

But time constraints like that are a big no no

You’d basically be hard coding an opener into the sim

And that’s super illegal

[thorn crater]

is it?

why?

isnt that hte only way to test various openers though?

[balmy condor]

Because that’s not how APL’s function

It’s too rigid

[thorn crater]

can u run 30 second sims?

[balmy condor]

Yeh

That would be to test it

[thorn crater]

that way u can look at it vs diff openers rihgt?

and then move on from there

[balmy condor]

But you can’t just leave it as “sbs if Deathmark and time <20”

You gotta put it into the actual logic

And that’s usually very difficult for an opener specific situation

[thorn crater]

so what you're saying is that you can't hard code opener APLs with giving the bot instruction on the sequence of spells?

and test them against each other

[balmy condor]

You can hard code them to test

[thorn crater]

i mean thats all that matters then right?

[balmy condor]

But it’s not gonna fly past testing

[thorn crater]

oooh so u cant basically use it forever is what ure saying

and if u use a different opener from the apl the sim will always be off

[balmy condor]

Yeah like just to test, that’s exactly what you’d do

But then you find the opener

And then what

You gotta break it apart and integrate it into the original logic

And that’s really hard

So at some point usually what happens is you just go “fuck it close enough” because shuffling a gcd back and forth 3 seconds doesn’t change anything

And the sim just kinda does it’s opener and calls it a day

[cold spoke]

machine learning simc is the future

[thorn crater]

ι μεαν

i mean

if the only problem with that htough is just a simple delay on SBS

thats easy to just as a delay in the apl

if there isnt anything more to it

no?

cause like you said u decided at the start that for the APL it makes sense to open with SBS

[balmy condor]

Machine learning simc has been tried before but it’s not really that great either for a whole host of reasons and we still make sure the sim is reasonably human, like we limit it from doing inhumanly fast proc reactions and stuff

[thorn crater]

but the buffs have changed the dmg spread since then

[bold drum]

that would be insane, only issue is it would need to be "human" it might get a .2% gain but you would need to be a superhuman to pull it off

[thorn crater]

or did i understand that wrong

[bold drum]

but in theory sth fun to play with

[balmy condor]

I mean in theory yeah just delay sbs don’t delay er 5head wipe your hands job done

If coding were always that easy bugs wouldn’t exist :P

[thorn crater]

thats why ure the expert

[balmy condor]

I’m sure something will go horribly wrong in the process

[thorn crater]

and im just spitballing here

[cold spoke]

you can probably set some human thresholds

[thorn crater]

or it wont and ill be a prophet and a messiah

[balmy condor]

Yeah either one

[thorn crater]

figuring out a new opener 10 seconds into the beta

ure welcome

XD

[balmy condor]

0.2% gained from opener

Banger

[cold spoke]

open with garrote

go wild after

whatever your heart tells you to

[balmy condor]

Gets bleeds up, press the other cooldowns after, cast a couple envenoms

Opener complete

[thorn crater]

just let me enjoy this

it feels good

[balmy condor]

I’ve been lowkey dreading this opener stuff

[cold spoke]

make a castsequence and pretend youre playing fury

[thorn crater]

and i came to uncrowned to test shit cause this place feelsgood

[balmy condor]

But it’s on my docket for today

[thorn crater]

so ur suggested opener is gar SND gar rup SBS vanish gar exsa DM?

[bold drum]

simming stream

[crude topaz]

doesn't that give you a 1 point rupture?

[steel ridge]

3p

[thorn crater]

oph ure right

i forgot the reapp of rupture in there somehwere

[crude topaz]

3p but don't we want pandemic bleeds pre exsa dm?

[cold spoke]

why vanish so early

[thorn crater]

that is teh whole discussion i am having with whispyr all this time 😛

the sim loves it

cause it also lines up DM with vanish

[cold spoke]

not that stupid

[thorn crater]

i prolly missed a muti rupture somehwere in tehre

[cold spoke]

yeah else you'd be exanging baseline 3cp rupture

-2s

[thorn crater]

not hte point of the convo

[cold spoke]

i like 3cp rupture into er rupture for big exsang

no clue if thats any good tho

[balmy condor]

Yeh my idea atm is

Gar snd gar sbs rup er rup vanish gar exsang dm shiv env kb

[thorn crater]

but

didnt u say u keep ER for shiv env?

wasnt that the argument before?

[balmy condor]

Or

Gar snd gar rup er rup vanish gar exsang dm shiv env kb and you fucking sbs wherever I guess

[balmy condor]

that’s what the sims do now

[cold spoke]

thats what im doing rn

[thorn crater]

ye tahts what im saying what are the sims using now? could u let me know? sorry for spam 😛

[balmy condor]

Right now the sim goes gar snd gar sbs rup mut mut rup exsang dm er env kb shiv

[thorn crater]

ye that feels both wrong

[cold spoke]

demon opener

[thorn crater]

and also forcing at least one charge of tea

in case u dont crit

[cold spoke]

2x mutilate sounds dire

[balmy condor]

It actually doesn’t tea even with triple mut

[thorn crater]

HOW DOES IT HAVE ENERGY?

bruh

what are u feeding the simbot

unless it has BL on opener

[balmy condor]

It does

[thorn crater]

😛

ok i get it then

kinda

can u test both versions of my thing?

[balmy condor]

Yeah sim opener is a little silly

[thorn crater]

both with using sbs early and with delaying?

[balmy condor]

Yeh for sure

[thorn crater]

cause i get there is a variance

but i actually think its controllable

either with shiv or a second SBS

[balmy condor]

Oh it definitely is controllable

I’d just want to avoid the variance if possible

[thorn crater]

ngl i hated SBS as a spell since the moment i saw it on the tree cause i didnt play SL

but now that i can fuck around with it in game with everything

i just see it as a CP manipulator

[crude topaz]

so that opener doesn't care about pandemic, just aims to bleed -> refresh bleed -> exang dmg and then env part

[thorn crater]

doesnt have to be more

[crude topaz]

exang dm*

[balmy condor]

Yeah but that’s just normal exsang things

That’s not anything special

[crude topaz]

ah I see I see, thanks

[subtle kiln]

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/tree/dragonflight/engine/class_modules/apl/rogue

look for the _DF

[balmy condor]

Not sure that’s helpful to him unless you want him to follow the logic tree for 15 gcds

[subtle kiln]

welcome to the assa opener.

[thorn crater]

bruh u think i dont have it

it doesnt let me copy the character i dno why

ive tried

[balmy condor]

Aight quick nap me think

And then idk

[cold spoke]

why is your exsang smiling

[subtle kiln]

[terse otter]

ok i finaly got the rotation mostly

[thorn crater]

can u stream in the evening?

[balmy condor]

I cannot

I work 2-10 today

Very cursed

[thorn crater]

welp

[balmy condor]

Maybe tomorrow

[thorn crater]

too bad i would have liked to see u run those sims

and be in chat

to furhter discuss

[cold spoke]

pro tip, sbs boss before combat so you dont have to use it during opener

[balmy condor]

Yeh I doubt I figure it all out today

[thorn crater]

jsuts tried ur opener. feels equally curse to vanish there its too soon lmao

and u waste the 3 second window of imp garrote

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[cold spoke]

i dont mind that vanish

[balmy condor]

The vanish there is definitely whack

But it’s the only thing the sims even remotely considered when testing exsang sync stuff

[cold spoke]

lines up with dm just nice on 2m

[balmy condor]

It was either be forever cursed vanishing halfway into dm

[uncut echo]

What other classes is realz working on?

[balmy condor]

Or vanish before and fuck the opener

[cold spoke]

dh i think

[thorn crater]

bruh it still lines up with what im saying. if u SBS as well before DM it lines up even earlier

u literally delay DM for 2 seconds to have both

[uncut echo]

Nice, ty

[balmy condor]

Yeah it didn’t like any of that

Any logic where dm was held for vanish just dumpstered

But idk

Maybe delaying stuff and delaying the dm can change that

[thorn crater]

is the dps loss noticeable if u take TTK over amp? with KB always

[subtle tundra]

🤨

[thorn crater]

ok ive done 10 opens with each recount averages about 7k stronger opener with the vanish inside DM. no buffs no food no nothing. thought thats not representative i fear.

maybe it is because it feels smoother

[subtle tundra]

youre really looking at just the opener

?

also if its like 2% difference you wont see it in details

by testing like this

[thorn crater]

the whole convo is about openers

[subtle kiln]

at some point we’re going to realize it’s CN UH and the opener min maxing won’t mater as much as just getting everything going and lining up later.

[subtle tundra]

bruh why does your opener matter?

[thorn crater]

cause its interesting to me ?

[iron orchid]

But the whole point of vanishing earlier is to make your next DM line up better right ?

[subtle kiln]

they iir forced the opener and then just had the apl lineup during the fight

[subtle tundra]

like you only care about comparing 2 details in opener only?

the fuck?

[thorn crater]

is there a reason ure being aggro?

small pp?

[subtle tundra]

my pp size is completely confidential

there's 1 person who knows

[thorn crater]

still dont get why upset

was just a convo about openers with whisp for hte past half hour

[subtle tundra]

cause you started comparing details numbers

[thorn crater]

my point was on 9it feeling smoother

and not awkward

[subtle tundra]

with a small sample size

[thorn crater]

exactly i stated that myself

[subtle tundra]

and testing really weird things

and with the difference between the things youre testing not noticeable unless very high sample size

[thorn crater]

thank you captain obvious for repeating what i said

well done

again, dont get why ure aggro

[subtle tundra]

so yea thats why i was "aggro"

feelcrafting does that

[thorn crater]

there is literally zero reason for u to be upset over something random regarding the spec that someone says in here.

ignore it move on

[subtle tundra]

im not upset

wtf?

[thorn crater]

welp it was a thought about something i was doing i didnt mean it to become a topic or an issue

if it did my bad

everything u said i included in my own statement

[thorn crater]

My reasoning is you waste an entire pandemic garrote duration (without taking into consideration DM) for a 3 second DM delay for those 2 lineups in a 5 min pull

And whether that is really worth it or not

Like do those 6 seconds do as much

[terse otter]

Varas can i find some VoD from beta on ur twitch ? can u link me ur twitch ?

i know i saw u pumpiung yesterday

[subtle tundra]

twitch.tv/varras

its linked on my profile

[terse otter]

thx

❤️

[iron orchid]

Yeah i tried to go read back evrything you said, but couldn't find your example opener

[thorn crater]

So it’s either gar snd gar sbs er rup exsa DM shiv env KB vanish garr muti garr envenom

Or u don’t SBS before DM

To make sure u have the empowered CPs for the envenom

[limber lion]

huh

[thorn crater]

If u do SBS before, u use second SBS to manipulate landing on either an emp CP or to get 6 and envenom

If necessary

Like, if everything goes wrong

Whisp said he’s gonna try to test is later

It

It essentially puts a 3 sec diff between DM and vanish

Which in my mind does not equate a dps loss over 5 mins, even 6. Cause you gain a whole extra emp garr in DM

For 15 seconds

That should cover those 6-9 seconds difference/delay

[limber lion]

I just don't really get the holding SBS part

[terse otter]

during AoE after i spread bleeds with IC, how many of them are u trying to maintain manualy? like 3-4 ?

[thorn crater]

Eliminate variance

Supposedly

[limber lion]

Previously you would always press SBS as your first ability because you want the dot up asap

And now in Dragonflight we have Lethal Dose

[thorn crater]

It’s what whisp will test

[limber lion]

which gives SBS even more value

[subtle tundra]

supposedly, garrote on cd, maintain CT and snd uptime, rupture everything

[thorn crater]

If those 5 seconds of delay are a dos loss

Dps

[limber lion]

5 seconds?

Where do you get 5 seconds

[thorn crater]

Whisps issue with the opener was the potential for variance of not landing on an empowered CP after shiv

For the first envenom

[terse otter]

so CT just to mantain bleeds

[thorn crater]

5 GCDs delay

Use before civ

[subtle tundra]

CT to maintain the bleed it applies. if everything is ruptured from IC you can press it more

[thorn crater]

Same opener move SBS before shiv

[terse otter]

kk got it

[thorn crater]

To eliminate variance

[limber lion]

But if you do gar sbs rup, followed by ER rup vanish gar, you'll be at 3cp when you deathmark

and then you shiv and you'll be at 4-5 which is guaranteed ER

[terse otter]

u guys start using fok instead of mutilate on 2+ targets ?

[subtle tundra]

3

[terse otter]

ty !

[limber lion]

huh?

What 5 abilities

[terse otter]

everything starting to work as it should

[thorn crater]

The whole point is to not vanish pre DM

[terse otter]

feels good

[limber lion]

Sure, so you mutilate instead and now you're at 3-5cp which is a guaranteed ER

[thorn crater]

ER, rup, exsa DM. It’s 4 actually nvm

[limber lion]

Huh?

what

[thorn crater]

Garr SND garr rup

You ER at 0

U use the 2 CP emp for the rup

Into exsa DM

[limber lion]

Just slam one mutilate before Exsang

or the sbs

[drowsy parcel]

i havent followed dragonflight at all, do we play ER in all content?

[limber lion]

yes we do

[drowsy parcel]

please help

[limber lion]

Just explain this logic to me, it makes no sense to me

[subtle tundra]

so, do we shiv -> kb or kb-> shiv with 2 charges?
and do i keep 2 charges of shiv for like 10 seconds to get both in kb?

[drowsy parcel]

i dont wanna

[limber lion]

You're not holding anything for 4 gcds

[gusty mirage]

wait until I tell you we play Exsang and take a fan of knives talent in St

[limber lion]

Shiv - Env - KB

[subtle tundra]

in dm too?

coolios

[limber lion]

And yes you do, always double Shiv with KB

Yes

[subtle tundra]

i was looking at a quick sim with kb and it was doing kb shiv

[royal lantern]

i press buttons until stuff is done

[gusty mirage]

Gamer

[limber lion]

Yeah some opener stuff is a bit whack currently

[drowsy parcel]

what the fuck is going on

[limber lion]

But doing shiv env kb is a safe bet everytime

[drowsy parcel]

i guess i have some catching up to do

[gusty mirage]

Literally the most cursed of timelines has come true

[royal lantern]

noooo

oxi is supressing me

[gusty mirage]

That wasn’t even me

[gleaming geyser]

[royal lantern]

ofc you say that

[gusty mirage]

That was me

[royal lantern]

green name tyranny

[gusty mirage]

Welp. Phones at 6% y’all have a wonderful morning

[subtle tundra]

its 6pm buck

[gusty mirage]

Or evening or whatever time it is there

[subtle tundra]

im almost going to bed

[nocturne current]

Although I use it only at 3+ because in a 3 situation I want to execute one of the mobs as fast as possible to drop pressure from the pack. Because either..

1 - If if it's a 3 pack, one of the mobs is probably a high threat/mini-boss one.
2 - If it's the rest of a pack I want to drop 1 mob down to a 2 pack as soon as possible to alleviate stress from the encounter.

[thorn crater]

I’ve erased 3 times what i was writing. Essentially looking for a way to not use vanish before DM. The holding the SBS is a tinfoil. The main point is that whisp was saying you hold ER for the KB envenom shit and I asked if instead u use it pre DM to not have to vanish

I dno im on the phone and walking it’s harder to explain that entire conversation

[subtle tundra]

if its 3 mobs you dont want to kill one quicker than the rest, you want all 3 dead at the same time

[limber lion]

I understand the vanish logic, but not your logic of "holding for 4-5 gcds"

[subtle tundra]

cause m+ timers are a thing

[limber lion]

Also of course you'd want to ER Rupture to get a full exsanguinated rupture for the entire Deathmark window, surely you're not holding ER and skipping that part.

[nocturne current]

Yeah but most of the situations there's rarely any instance where having the 3 alive and shit is going smooth.

[subtle tundra]

huh

99% of the situations you want all the mobs dead at the same time

[nocturne current]

On paper.

[subtle tundra]

from beta experience

[nocturne current]

Not in reality.

But that's a choice. I rather not gamble a high threat mob alive for a minimal optimized overall.

[limber lion]

If you have 3 random mobs

and there's no prio mobs

[subtle tundra]

its not about an optimezed overall

[limber lion]

you kill them at the same time

because it's more damage

and faster

[subtle tundra]

its about killing the pack as fast as possible for the timer

[limber lion]

and the thing about m+ is killing stuff as fast as possible

[subtle tundra]

because m+ has a timer

[nocturne current]

Yeah except of those 3 mobs alive, it's very likely that 1 of them is the very high HP one that's dishing out whirlwinds or AoE in your entire group. Or it's the last remaining 3 of a pack that already has put so much pressure in your group you're gambling for DPS.

[limber lion]

What

what does that second part even mean

If you're killing a pack with 8 mobs and you've killed the first 5 mobs

[subtle tundra]

those are very specific situations which dont happen often

[keen mist]

Hey cev ur cute

[limber lion]

and there's 3 useless mobs remaining

[limber lion]

hey hottie

[nocturne current]

Yeah but in very high end those mobs aren't "useless".

[subtle tundra]

buddy they are

[limber lion]

oh okay

[normal mist]

I think they know what they are talking about xD

[subtle tundra]

if you pulled 8 mobs and 3 are left those mobs definetly dont do much

compared to all 8

[nocturne current]

Yeah but you already invested the resources into the first five that don't you don't have access now should shit go wrong. I mean, if you want to optimize it, go for it, I rather secure the pack and drop down from 3 -> 2 and just maintain the last two at the same time.

The edge of AoE to Single target for me it's just gambling gray area.

[subtle tundra]

im almost, if not all situations, of high end content where this would be relevant, you would know if the tank is in danger or not

from the mobs that are left and what they do

[nocturne current]

Yeah ofcourse.

[subtle tundra]

and again. in most situations the tank isnt in danger at the end of the pack

finishing a pack 2 seconds faster is more important to me

there have been plenty of dungeons where 10-20 seconds gained over the course of a dungeon would've timed it

[nocturne current]

Yeah in this extreme situations is the only way to go is perfect gaming.

But most often than not I've lost keys because the DPS got greedy in keeping a high threat alive to serve as a dot dummy than executing it, ending up in someone dead from a random-ass charge/stomp/whirlwind.

[limber lion]

Again

you're talking about prio targets

we're not talking about prio targets

[subtle tundra]

the high threat target dies before everything else in a good group though

[limber lion]

that's completely different

[subtle tundra]

and if youre an assa rogue you should make sure of that

you deathmark kb exsang it and destroy it

[thorn crater]

Ok so apparently (whisps conclusion) if you sbs at start and use the RC rup there is a potential that after shiv on that opener you land on the same CP you used earlier so you don’t have a maxed out envenom. Like I said that’s the smallest problem

@limber lion sorry for the delay im on the road.

[limber lion]

Right like I said, I get it. But where is this 4-5 gcds that you were talking about? Still confused.

Also does it matter if it's not a maxed out Envenom?

You still have enough time to build for a second Envenom right after that

[nocturne current]

Sure, may be, but that's just my play style. I rather de-escalate the threat gradually making the transition from AoE to single target even if it at the cost of DPS. If I still fail the dungeon for lack of damage then that's another story...

[limber lion]

There's literally no threat in 3 mobs that do nothing

But if it works for you, keep at it

[nocturne current]

But it's probably because I just see it the other way around where higher DPS would be the last fix solution over survivability/etc.

[limber lion]

It's just pointless single targeting a crab that does nothing but stare at you instead of doing AoE to clear the 3 crabs faster

in an environment

[nocturne current]

I mean, it's pointless in the end because at one point everything needs to be like Varas said pixel-perfect gameplay in DPS so, mobs will have to survive yeah.

[limber lion]

built around speed

[subtle tundra]

the worst feeling is when you play the dungeon perfectly and you dont time cause of dps.

0 death run and dont time

[nocturne current]

Ahh.. Not for me man, I rage more when people die.

[subtle tundra]

and yes it has happened to me

[trim dirge]

maybe you’d prefer outlaw damage profile

[subtle kiln]

if you want priority go sub

[subtle tundra]

choosing fok over mutilate in 3 targets doesnt have anything to do with pixel perfect gameplay

[nocturne current]

Muti exectues faster the single target one tho.

Even if Fok's generating more combo points.

[subtle tundra]

fok also does damage. fok spreads poisons to all targets

[nocturne current]

Yeah but that's what I was saying. I rather sacrifice that and de-escalate the threat. Not all situations sure, but I do it quite reguarly.

[subtle tundra]

yea couldnt do that myself

[nocturne current]

And yes, I'm losing Overall, but, choice.

[static glacier]

ngl I'd rather kidney or blind or gouge w/e its scary cast / ability is rather than mut

since if the whole argument about griefing your overall to kill a mob faster is that it's a threat cc effectively counts as removing the threat

[meager granite]

Sub is the spec for you then in order to perform very well at that no?

[teal bloom]

Fok becomes better than mut in 3 target now? Wasn't it 4 in shadowlands

[limber lion]

But again you're talking about "threat"

but there is no threat

[subtle tundra]

and by going from 3t->2t faster means the other people in the dungeon change what they do, probably swapping from aoe to ST meaning losing even more time.
keeping it at 3 targets is way way better

[subtle kiln]

force a square peg in a round hole or play the spec designed to do the desired behavior

[limber lion]

You're literally constantly and only talking about prio damage and "de-escalating threat"

but there's no threat in 3 trash mobs that don't do anything

Your tank can literally tank them without pressing a single button

Yeah and like Varas said, Affli warlock for one loses a shit ton if the third target dies because they generate much fewer soul shards with just 2 agonies compared to 3.

and many many other specs have similar features where more targets means more overall or more prio dps.

[static glacier]

imagine denying the afflock the third seed target

[subtle kiln]

we hate locks. duh

[static glacier]

[limber lion]

That's a good reason to kill one target asap

but "de-escalating threat" against 3 swamp crabs is not

[thorn crater]

Whispyr said it@might. And needs to test. That was it. I said it shouldn’t even matter because u can just use a second sbs to get there

[static glacier]

normally the whole trying to focus a mob down in a 3 pack is if there's one mob with a ton more hp, we just use our st CDs on it

[limber lion]

And that comes down to prio again

[thorn crater]

But you can’t use a second envenom right after cause u have to vanish garrote first so it will fall off if it’s at 3 or 4 cps

[limber lion]

one target is more valuable than the other 2 targets

but when there's 3 targets of similar (low) value, you just aoe them all down at the same time.

[static glacier]

cev explained it multiple times clearly. Idk why you're coping yourself into focusing meaningless trash with mut in aoe

[nocturne current]

Yes, that was my point.

[limber lion]

WHAT

@subtle tundra

come

look

[subtle tundra]

👨‍🦯 studying, cant see

better to abstain

[nocturne current]

Nah, but I said Varas was right since start. It's just a choice I do more often than the standard

I don't have good experiences with mobs running around after phat pulls.

[static glacier]

you're free to play how you want. as long as you understand it's not generally optimal

[subtle kiln]

nearly a hour to go full circle. never change or share the drugs.

[nocturne current]

It's not a circle.. Optimal is dynamic.

There isn't a 1 fit's all solution for everything. What's optimal in a pack isn't necessarily true for the next one.

[subtle kiln]

3 useless trash mobs will always be 3 useless trash mobs. nothing dynamic about that.

[nocturne current]

Yes, but since I'm not talking about 3 sewer rats.

[subtle kiln]

cucking your warlock will always cuck your warlock

nothing dynamic about that

[nocturne current]

Hell, for all you know those 3 mobs just came from a 3 pack pull and your healer is getting OoM or some other random shit. It's very variable...

[subtle kiln]

you know where that comes into play? pugs lol

healer oom is a tank issue

shouldn’t have pulled

[nocturne current]

Yeah, but pugs, is a reality.

If you don't want to take it in account, your choice.

[subtle kiln]

and optimizing for pugs ain’t gonna happen chief.

welcome to DKs looking for mdi pulls

optimal within the group setup is what’s best for the entire group. you state your case and get overruled by the warlock.

this ain’t sub rogues looking to have 5+ targets trying to melt a priority.

[nocturne current]

Optimal is also not getting hit by pennies in lower and even in Mdi you have CC.

Optimal is too variable to make a generalization.

[royal lantern]

my only priority is trying to survive until DF launch

[subtle kiln]

mine is trying to not die of laughter from some of the half baked mental gymnastics that goes on in spec channels.

back to posting dog pics

[nocturne current]

Fair. I also say paper DPS theory is also half baked mental gymnastics because it isn't the gameplay reality.

[royal lantern]

thats why you dont care about wow until launch happend and the bigbrains did all the sim stuff, and instead play other games

[subtle kiln]

pug reality. no tank is going to wait for you to restealth. fucking over your lock is generally bad. if you are only pugging, outlaw is likely a better spec to play as it’s setup is the same no matter what.

[subtle tundra]

i do a bit of tank flaming over restealths

[subtle kiln]

✌🏼

[subtle tundra]

uwu

just some words

make him feel my suffering

add the 6 second aoe silence + dr on pull

make him feel it

but only subtle hints

[fallen arch]

Just play night elf

[nocturne current]

"Bro next time you pull I dispell my non-lethal."

[royal lantern]

if you dont do that, tanks will get a god complex again

sometimes gotta spray them with water

[nocturne current]

"Woaps, sorry dude, I kicked on top of yours."

[earnest imp]

What sin weak auras you guys found to be excellent?

general cooldown ones

or do you tinker your owns

[spice spire]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[spice spire]

I like afenar’s personally

[kindred heron]

& luxthos' is prob easiest to customize

[steel ridge]

afenars is brilliant from a technical perspective but has some rotational problems

[earnest imp]

Referring to what?

Im just checking it out

[trim dirge]

im trying out devlins its pretty good

[steel ridge]

sin pandemic timers are wrong iirc, they glow too soon

and for outlaw the opportunity icon glows when you have GSW buff without having opportunity up

which may lead you to believe you have to use pistol shot, while you dont.

[earnest imp]

ye this devlins looks very good

[meager granite]

usually taking a base of WA pack like afenar's, then making tweeks and changes to my likings

[thorn crater]

im having trouble customizing luxthos

it odesnt let me resize them

and if i try to move the core ones out of horizontal into vertical i need to do it via the little arrows and they still end up all over africa instead of one beneath the other

was wondering if there are some customizations that are locked

[next edge]

I think he changed

Hw has put GSW to buffs and opp to diff one

[steel ridge]

i fixed it myself yesterday

and i think i loaded the newest version before that

[prisma cypress]

what's good about afenars?

[next edge]

It tracks everything

The disposition is cool

[prisma cypress]

things that luxthos doesnt?

[next edge]

And the icons are also quite cool

No, both are great

[steel ridge]

thats actually not good, but you can disable alot of the useless information ones

[next edge]

But the style of luxos doesn't fit me

[meager granite]

It's good to have a pack that tracks everything, then you delete what you don't judge needed

[next edge]

Such as Alacrity

[steel ridge]

use what you enjoy most

[next edge]

Also the disposition of buffs is not good imo

But that's easy to change

[steel ridge]

or cannibalize it and use your own

[next edge]

Same as utility

This "vanished" style of utility not used

Doesn't seem good imo

[prisma cypress]

i like it

saves space

[next edge]

End of that is take a pack and customise it

To your own style

I also thing that packs made by rogue players are better than generic ones by default

[grave scroll]

[meager granite]

i used the base of Afenar, and remove/added things i used you years on a previous WA pack (Ezo's i think) cuz i liked it better

[dark token]

That looks awful to me but it's ur opinion I guess

[meager granite]

WA are based on tastes, and what works best for you, not rly about opinion tbh. it was just to illustrate to whoever was asking that you can deconstruct a WA pack and do w/e you like with it to fit what you want/need

[thorn crater]

i like it.

i assume u cna do a 60-70 levelup on beta right?

[crude topaz]

is it worth running KB build now before the extra talent points for ST raid ?

[prisma cypress]

what’s the alternative

IC is useless on single target and we don’t have enough talent points for DTB

[next edge]

Basically this

[austere flame]

Is there any sims for sub

I mean sin*

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[limber lion]

what are you looking for

anything in particular?

[austere flame]

ST And dungeon slice

[vestal wren]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz

[austere flame]

Ty

[limber lion]

He was asking for sin sims

[vestal wren]

oh sry, did not see that he corrected himself

[tawny maple]

just logged onto my rogue since pre patch is vendetta gone or am i having major brain fart?

[bold drum]

vendetta is

replaced with deathmark

[tawny maple]

ah

[stray star]

Does the vendetta leggo affect deathmark?

[sinful cradle]

yes

[white lance]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[red tinsel]

Anyone is playing with Deeper instead of MfD or has tried both? Wondering if Deeper was viable or at least a minimal loss

[next edge]

Deeper is in fact the most common pick

coming to DF

I think almsot no one is taking MFD

[red tinsel]

Oh, what's the reason for it?

I was thinking with Thistle our energy gen, and by consequence Combo gen would be overflowing a bit

[white lance]

anyone got the math formula for rupture pandemic?

[vestal wren]

pandemic is just 30% of the duration of the dot/buff

rupture

if you want to use it for a weakaura it might be better to use the 4 or 5 cp duration value

if you want to add a pandemic indicator

[subtle tundra]

Mfd in prepatch for flag

Otherwise ds

[vestal wren]

it would be:
6 sec for 4 cp
7.2 for 5 cp

[white lance]

allright will look into it. i keep coming back to this topic every time i make wa 😄

[vestal wren]

pandemic is for most specs in the game

so it is more a general concept than a specific thing

[white lance]

aye but not all use cp to change duration

[vestal wren]

haha true

[white lance]

i keep thinking its 30% of the old to the new, but its up to 30% of the new FROM the old

math was never my strong side

ive played rogue since vanilla and always keep forgetting

[solid mica]

Havent played sin in keys for awhile, is tricks still as effective as the other 2 specs or do u need to throe ur bleeds uo before you hit it

Like maybe ic garrote rup tricks fok?

[limber lion]

4 + 4^n + 0.3% of existing diarrhea

very sick indeed.

But yeh pandemic is just 30% of the new instance.

[white lance]

aye

[limber lion]

so you can do a 2cp rupture followed by a 7cp rupture to get a full pandemic on the 7cp rupture.

[torn atlas]

Ahhh, I've been thinking of it backwards for all this time

[white lance]

oh right, its not limited by the current total duration

[torn atlas]

Like you could only transfer 30% of the existing bleed into the new one.

[white lance]

it looks for if up to 30% of the one you are going to apply is currently active, then it takes those (up to) 30% and adds to the new one. so its basically 1.3 x the new

[limber lion]

Right the duration on the existing rupture or the pandemic effect of it is not dependent on the combo points used for it.

Exactly

As long as you have 30% of the new bleed existing on the target already, it'll apply the full 1.3 time bleed.

[white lance]

time to work on conditions since im no programmer

would love to be able to write code but cant

[limber lion]

I pretty much have it set up to glow at 7.2s with Deeper Stratagem enabled, and at 6s without Deeper Stratagem

[white lance]

im doing conditions based on all cps, 1, 2, 3 etc, so it wont matter what talents you have

[limber lion]

Simple enough and does everything that's needed.

[white lance]

but many conditions -.-

[limber lion]

Yeh

[oblique jackal]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[white lance]

and ER

[limber dagger]

anybody else feels pretty energy starved in keys?

[nocturne current]

Not at all buddy.

[limber dagger]

not even in ST?

[nocturne current]

Pre-patch or beta?

[limber dagger]

prepatch

[nocturne current]

Hm, you can get a slight bit once in a while but I guess that's because we don't have access to the rest of the tree tho.

But the again I assume you probably have low haste tho, no?

[limber dagger]

yea

19%

[nocturne current]

Yeah I have the same number. Yeah I guess a bit of haste would fix it, but I kinda neglected ST in keys a bit.

I usually pick Haste bounty for ones I know I'll probably starve, Workshop/Upper and such. So maybe that's your energy hunger.

[limber dagger]

hmm okay

idk it feels really bad for me in st because i sometimes cant even fit any envenoms in my shiv windows

[nocturne current]

Are you pooling energy?

[limber dagger]

not really 👀

[nocturne current]

https://tenor.com/view/so-good-wink-smile-oh-yeah-its-true-gif-24163876

[limber dagger]

but even with pooling CT runs out before i start my shiv window

it feels weird idk

probably a me problem

[nocturne current]

I usually fit around 2-3 envenoms.

[limber dagger]

with that?

and deausing atrophic and deadly but that doesnt make a difference right?

[nocturne current]

Hm.

On the left tree I use Nimble and Iron though.

Nimble saves a bit, not much but, it's a bit.

[limber dagger]

so weird

[nocturne current]

But don't worry too much about it because in shot time we'll have access to Tea n stuff.

[limber dagger]

i guess yea

[nocturne current]

And just out of curiosity.

Isn't it better you drop Master Assassin for for Venom Rush tho?

It's quite a boost.

[limber dagger]

no idea

[nocturne current]

Yeah man, do that. It gives a ton of energy.

[limber dagger]

will try ty

[subtle tundra]

is this pvp build?

[limber dagger]

no m+

[subtle tundra]

[limber dagger]

yes?

[subtle tundra]

get ic

[limber dagger]

ic and get rid of master assasin?

[nocturne current]

This is the one I am using now.

[subtle tundra]

MA is extremely bad

[limber dagger]

for venom

[subtle tundra]

venom is bad too

[limber dagger]

will try ic stuff, thanks!

[nocturne current]

It won't fix your energy problems in ST but.. You should do a bit more damage overall.