assassination

[spice spire]

Just disable them and see if that fixes it rq on a dummy

And go through there. 99.9% of my issues have been a wa tho

[vernal adder]

I just deleted all mine when prepatch hit

No problems here

[spice spire]

Same, redownloaded what was needed

[plain cipher]

yeah i was gonna do that anyway i have a lot that i wont need

[vernal adder]

Smol clean is always good

[plain cipher]

i usually do it every xpac

[torn atlas]

Is it on the character portrait or on the secondary class/power bar you can get under your character?
I find the default character portrait is usually correct but the other one almost never is.
(Using completely default ui btw)

[cerulean nest]

some quick qs for the kb build:

1. we rip ER on cooldown?
2. hold exsang for KB or just send with full pandemic bleeds?
3. any best time to spam sbs or just keep refreshing?
4. hold all shivs for KB windows?

[spice spire]

1. Yes
2. Second one
3. Start dot, don’t overcap.
4. Hold both charges when close

[cerulean nest]

does that usually mean you can squeeze one shiv in between?

havent put in the time to feel it out yet

[balmy condor]

you hold every charge for KB

if you play KB

you only shiv with KB

[spice spire]

I thought you could squeeze one in

Listen to smarter qt

[cerulean nest]

thanks boys

[bitter badger]

sorry if this is a dumb question, do we exang before or after deathmark?

[spice spire]

Before

It is not a dumb question

[bitter badger]

oke thankyou

[balmy condor]

the only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask

and also the ones clearly answered in the pins

and prepatch optimizations

and scaling

and anything that I choose to deem stupid after a bad day at work

that last one is a complete minefield

[obtuse robin]

[torn atlas]

Scaling is for dracthyr

[dense yoke]

im stupid af but is there a pdf explaining how exsang works

[balmy condor]

there isn't, but I promise you exsang is stupider than you

[dense yoke]

in my head its like, if the ability makes the dots tick twice as fast but the duration is half, then how is that a dps gain

[balmy condor]

that should provide some solace

[dense yoke]

im literally stupid excuse me

[balmy condor]

the gain is you get extra ticks

cause like

think about this

30 second rupture, 30 ticks for example

you compress it to 15 seconds, but it's still 30 ticks

so now you have 15 seconds of free ticks on the new rupture

[dense yoke]

oh ok that makes sense just saying that

yea i can see it now thanks

[balmy condor]

no problemo

#DeleteExsang

[dense yoke]

but is that really that much better than other options? 😭

[honest vessel]

yup

[balmy condor]

it's almost capstone levels of good

[dense yoke]

jesus

[balmy condor]

8% talent

[honest vessel]

more energy from those extra ticks on top of the dam

[balmy condor]

stronger than every legendary we had in shadowlands (minus 9.2 duskwalker cause tier set is dummy thick)

bleeds got kinda giga buffed

so getting extra bleed ticks

is really good

[dense yoke]

that's kinda hype thoo ill get used to exsang fuggit

[gusty mirage]

You’re not, exsang is the stupid one here

It’s such a cursed fucking ability

But it’s kinda whatever

[spice spire]

🤨

[gusty mirage]

I’ve developed Stockholm syndrome from 9.2

Leave me alone

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

The face in pfp is the one I make every time I look at my action bars and see exsang

[earnest remnant]

same with mine

[oak sky]

tbh 9.2 was different because it was like a contained window

and like since it kept goingyou only had to refresh early at the very end

[gusty mirage]

Thanks I had no idea

[oak sky]

💀

nah but like

[gusty mirage]

I actually miss the tier set more

[oak sky]

i dont hate the exsang effect personally

[gusty mirage]

Unlucky

[oak sky]

its like

[gusty mirage]

This is the reality I live in

[oak sky]

the shit we do to play around it

that sucks

reducing dot is pog

[misty comet]

/sigh. Time to find another keybind

[gusty mirage]

Well luckily you have an entire expac of that

[oak sky]

monkeys paw curls

[gusty mirage]

Every time an assassination rogue presses exsang, someone clubs a baby seal

Hope you like your condensed dots now Andrew

[earnest remnant]

who doesent like a bit of baby seal clubbin

[misty comet]

[Northern Canada wants to know your location]

[gusty mirage]

@oak sky hates baby seals confirmed

[oak sky]

im rapidly pressing x

(x for exsang)

[gusty mirage]

I put exsang where I’ve had poisoned knife for 4 years

You know how awkward it’s been for me?

[oak sky]

oxi im on my 5th character for sha

[gusty mirage]

@drifting cloud his descent into madness has started

[oak sky]

im gonna have so many alts sitting there

[teal bloom]

My exang will be binded to F because fuck exsang

[gusty mirage]

Next farm invincible

[drifting cloud]

eh seems decently buffed, should be chill 😛

[oak sky]

why would i farm a mount i dont care about

[gusty mirage]

Cause invincible is sick wdym

[oak sky]

yeah but

i dont want it

[gusty mirage]

Yet

[oak sky]

im not a mount farmer i just like the cloud serpent

[drifting cloud]

was reading a discord 2 clowns with opposite opinion about the buff insulting each other

pretty funny

[gusty mirage]

Neither was I, now I have 423 mounts and I’m grinding for the otter

[oak sky]

i have 90something

[honest vessel]

we need otter

😤

[gusty mirage]

YES

otter bis mount

Anyone saying otherwise is lying

[honest vessel]

literal only mount outside of yak after this

[drifting cloud]

isnt there alot of otter mounts in df?

[gusty mirage]

Yeah but they’re not blue and a ghost

[honest vessel]

this one is special >.>

[gusty mirage]

But we like those otters too

[drifting cloud]

I dont think ive mounted it for more than 10s

[gusty mirage]

Because otters are wonderful

[drifting cloud]

lets see

[honest vessel]

otters are sick

[drifting cloud]

oh it flies

[gusty mirage]

Of course it does

It’s great man

[vernal adder]

faster swimming too

[drifting cloud]

you say ofc but blizz usually puts terrible mounts in the achiev

[oak sky]

i usually only use like

yak and vengeance

[gusty mirage]

I’ll tell Ion to give you the yeti instead dw

[drifting cloud]

I mean wouldnt change much for me

[oak sky]

i would use a cloud serpent tho

[teal bloom]

Where do you get the otter?

[gusty mirage]

500 mount achieve

[teal bloom]

Oh

:(

[gusty mirage]

Until DF where they’re adding like 4-6 regular ones

Which are also great

[drifting cloud]

I got a little backlog

[balmy condor]

you have to mount me 500 times? I mean if you insist

[gusty mirage]

[drifting cloud]

what are these evoker quests in org

am I wasting time

[gusty mirage]

Yes

Go kill shit at the assaults

[oak sky]

nvm i know pain now

[gusty mirage]

There’s one in the barrens

[drifting cloud]

it just tells you theres assaults right

lmao ok

[oak sky]

i just got to sha

as it died

[honest vessel]

10 min timer

no biggi

[gusty mirage]

It’s started

His descent into deviancy of mount farming

[oak sky]

yeah ik

ive farmed it before

over lockdown when i was newer to the game i farmed it during my online classes

[gusty mirage]

Go farm the blue proto drake too

[honest vessel]

literally farming while working on homework lol

[oak sky]

nah i dont want that oxi

[gusty mirage]

Smh

Fun hack for the one flying in 8.3 vale

If you have the lasso

Go to when it swaps to mogu assault

[oak sky]

whats the mount armory website

[gusty mirage]

Afk there right before it swaps over

[oak sky]

lets see how good i am at shadowlands mounts

[gusty mirage]

When it swaps slam the macro for the lasso

Get free mount

Never go back

[vernal adder]

should do that actually

[gusty mirage]

Except to the farm the other rare for the other serpent

[drifting cloud]

gamer strat

[oak sky]

oh is that one of those black empire things

[gusty mirage]

Yes

2 of them come from the vale assaults

[drifting cloud]

https://simplearmory.com agreon

[gusty mirage]

Good stuff

Relive my pain from 8.3

@drifting cloud 15 more visions for the bug mount

[drifting cloud]

think ill lvl some dhs to farm kings rest if its easy to get the gear

[gusty mirage]

Yeah everyone’s said it’s super easy to farm the catch-up gear

Which makes sense

[silk linden]

could any of you share a KB build sim (DF not prepatch) with regular gear and nothing crazy in it? would like to check the html report

or is there any where you have this stored?

[gusty mirage]

@balmy condor might have one laying around

[drifting cloud]

I was just gonna ping him but im scared

same time

[balmy condor]

hm?

KB build sim for DF

uhhhhhhhh

let me check my history

[balmy condor]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2cagVUXFLsYBrAg7eRu9Pb

this is scaled to 408 ilvl

gear isn't too crazy, stats are for sure not optimized

what we looking for

[silk linden]

damage profile mostly, how bursty the spec is, how long it takes for the spec to send the damage

[balmy condor]

oh

yeh

typical sin stuff

takes like 20 seconds

[silk linden]

also variance, I like my specs with no big rng swings but procs are nice

[strange python]

That seems high relative to what other classes are showing

[balmy condor]

comparing to other classes atm is really dumb

don't do that

even comparing between rogue specs is pretty much pointless

we're all working off random gear sets

[strange python]

I'm not doing any real comparisons. I'm trying to get high on hopium

[balmy condor]

most aren't using dragonflight consumables

which is like

a lot of damage

[oak sky]

isnt the weapon enchant like omega big main stat

[strange python]

Whispyr just let me huff the hope

😦

[balmy condor]

yeah weapon enchant is giga too

[balmy condor]

oh we're for sure good

like

no doubt we're good

but comparing sim numbers just doesn't make sense :P

[strange python]

I just don't wanna play outlaw anymore

[balmy condor]

then don't

[strange python]

While also not feeling like I could be doing more

[silk linden]

thanks btw, I've seen some sims being thrown around in the channel but they were too experimental or with crazy gear... didn't know where to reach for some sims

[balmy condor]

:P they're still kinda experimental

[silk linden]

solid enough if you are willing to share haha

I was kinda expecting third use of deathmark (with boss on execute range) to give a higher dps peak than the first one, guessing it's because of exsang being cast on cd and not lining up

[balmy condor]

yeah

we don't sync cds a lot

so anything outside of opener is just weak

and apparently that's just a-o-k

sim gives its blessing to vanish halfway through deathmark

[silk linden]

even if garrote isn't on pandemic yet?

[balmy condor]

well when you vanish to override a garrote

it doesn't matter what the duration on the garrote is

you're playing shrouded

so you will always vanish gar x gar

it'll max pandemic regardless

[silk linden]

yeah makes sense

there's a lot of not-so-intuitive kinda obscure things going on with the spec if you want to min max damage

which is kinda fitting for the spec

[keen remnant]

improved garrote overrides current one at target ?

[balmy condor]

I don't understand the question

[keen remnant]

I should vanish > garrote even if target already has garrote debuff?

snapshot is still a thing?

I need some place to get up-to-date

[balmy condor]

yeah of course

vanish garrotes big

improved garrote buffs your garrote by a ton

you should always apply stealth garrotes

[silk linden]

do you know what would be grand whispyr? some kind of guide-line about burst windows... what skills you stop using and how you would speed up your burst if necessary depending on time to kill

for fights where prio adds are the most important thing or for very big vulnerability windows

as in... if you only have 15 seconds to do most of your damage don't bother applying SBS or don't cast double rupture

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s something I might explore in the #assassination-faq or the wowhead guide

Those are being worked on atm

Method guide is getting updated soon, wowhead is next priority, and then the faq

All will be ready for launch day dragonflight

[silk linden]

awesome

[brazen zodiac]

thanks!

[balmy condor]

if there's any other more out-there requests for info let me know

and I will try to add it to my to-do list

can't promise everything but I'll try to get the important ones

[warm olive]

For reference: it was the open all bags and character window macro that caused the issue, it wasnt even in the bar, but it existed and that seemed to be enough.

[hearty junco]

whispyr, for a 2 target fight do we take CT?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[hearty junco]

damn

[echo cargo]

@balmy condor why you so cute

FAQ that

[balmy condor]

Damn idk built diffy I guess

[noble umbra]

is there any guide with anything on exsanguinate in the rotation

can't find anything

[sturdy merlin]

There is not much to know about it, the oldest pin in this channel will get you covered

Max your dots pandemic before using, do not press it during deathmark or it will shorten its duration

[balmy condor]

yeh

pins explain a lot

FaQ soon

[silk linden]

is it me or are sims getting back to back blindside procs? I thought that was impossible

[hearty junco]

funny thing, i got it back to back like 10 mins ago on a doll

[honest vessel]

ambush and mut

[rich vine]

My best proc strike 4

[silk linden]

yeah I guess I haven't played that much assa since the bug got corrected, haven't gotten a chain of procs still, I assumed the bug still was there

of ambush not proccing BS

may I did get one and didn't notice, anyway good to hear it's corrected

[green harbor]

the new ambush sound is funny splat

[torpid hinge]

For 10.0 is it looking like we send CDs desynced outside of the opener? (depends on fight length a bit I assume)

[honest vessel]

definitely yes for exsang

save both shivs for kb

unless somethings changed

dont lose a cast by waiting if the boss is gonna die before kb ofc

[torpid hinge]

Yeah for sure, and if I’m not losing a cast then sending exsang + er at 0 -> 45 -> 90 -> 135 (hold deathmark for 15 seconds to sync). Assuming I don’t lose a cast of dm by holding

[sullen cloak]

are there damage sims for all the classses yet? ive been having a hard time playing rogue in pre patch, it feels like alota work for sub good dps, just feels bad to try hard and loose to my own undergeared face roll ret pally

hoping it is better in DF

[obsidian sail]

Hey guys, what do you think the state of assassination in high m+ will be in dragonflight?

[little light]

42 is my answer

[obsidian sail]

thanks

so, just as shit as in shadowlands

[iron orchid]

it probably will never be as good as outlaw for high end M+

firstly because outlaw stacks vers, which is highly valuable in a high M+ situation

even if we may compete in terms of damage output, outlaw will probably be literally more versatile

(still depends on tuning tho)

But we are definitely not "shit" after the buffs we've received

[little light]

the problem now (in prepatch) I think is you can do ST or aoe not much in between, but at 70 with more talent points there will be more options?

still for m+ sin will always have to work harder to get results, outlaw just blade flurry gigaclap

[honest vessel]

is the dps worth doing if it took no brain doing it? c:

to answer you no, sims across classes are in very different stages of done-ness

we rogues are blessed with some very hard workers

it's important for there to be specs for people who wanna feel like they're trying hard and for people that wanna hit glowing button

[quaint sequoia]

only shit rotationwise with shit exsang 🤷‍♂️

[honest vessel]

[dense herald]

What’s the main reason exang has now become viable?

Compared with prev expansions

[misty holly]

Higher percentage of damage coming from rupture/garrote. Only competing with 1 talent point out of 30, rather than being on a row with something better.

Alacrity was SO good. It was our strongest talent in 9.0 by far - that's what Exsanguinate was competing with.

If you look now, Alacrity is giga nerfed, and cost 2 talent points in 10.0

Exang is exactly the same as before and for only 1 point

[oak sky]

exsang also doesnt compete with alacrity at all because they arent on the same tree

[misty holly]

yeah, just showing how overtuned 9.0 alacrity was

They had to nerf it, drop it deep in the tree and make it 2 points

Exang they just carried over no change

[oak sky]

also, theres a good amount of talents buffing garrote and rupture

and then you consider that it has some interactions with deathmark

[small kiln]

Hey guys new to rogue here playing outlaw for prepatch,I wanna ask for DF raid progress if sin gonna be better from outlaw just for the raid

[oak sky]

gotta see final tuning compared to other specs and how the fights actually end up playing out on live

even though a lot of the fights are cleave heavy ive been hearing a lot of the cleave is less important so its hard to say for sure

[vestal wren]

Donts do more damage = exsag is good

[small kiln]

Never played sin so I wanna know if I have to start playing around with it to get used

[oak sky]

cant hurt

[cobalt hemlock]

you wont get used to it until df is released

since you cant get all the talents

[vestal wren]

^ it probably is good to try out all 3 specs

[small kiln]

Oh okay

[vestal wren]

and learn the basics

[silk junco]

Most likely outlaw, but sin is very close to viable in raid. Gotta see the bosses and gets through some final tuning before WF race

[vestal wren]

because they all can become the "best" in DF

[small kiln]

Well I know sub/outlaw but never touched sin

[vestal wren]

Assassination is atm numerical the best on single target

outlaw probably best in cleave

and the raid has a lot of cleave

subtlety is not bad, but does not beat either

it potentially would beat them in very high target aoe

but sustained high target aoe is not a very common thing

[small kiln]

Thanks for the answers,I will try out sin too

[silk junco]

Sin is fun, a lot of work, but rewarding

[next edge]

That's my "concern"

Not concern but what's bugging me

[oak sky]

its definitely possible sin is just better

if the cleave doesnt matter

[next edge]

Indeed

Also depends a lot in the comp

My guild has a lot of AoE specs so if we lack a bit more of ST I'll go for that

I really love both specs so prolly will play both

I'm just worried of the "master of none" thing since I come back to raid after a huge hiatus

[oak sky]

i wouldnt worry about it

[next edge]

Gotta say HO outlaw looks super interesting

[oak sky]

if you arent feeling great about performance just stick with what you know

idk exactly what level you raid at but

generally speaking

[next edge]

Im chilling in a 2 day guild, we get CE but not pushing us per hard for it

[oak sky]

yeah man

just do what you feel comfortable doing 100%

if you feel like playing outlaw go outlaw, if you feel like sin go sin

[next edge]

Yeah.

[oak sky]

its never gonna be your spec choice causing wipes

99%+ of the time

[next edge]

Probably I just need to adapt to Sin since long time no play it

Same time I feel Sin is a better spec to prog

Because outlaw can feel really overwhelming

[oak sky]

i mean

[crude topaz]

I'm in the same situation as you Lambda, tried rogue for the first time in ages after a long time off and I absolutely love sin, although outlaw is net superior at the moment, my god if you love the bleeds and poison aspect of the class it doesn't matter

[oak sky]

if a player whos comfortable on outlaw hops on sin having barely played it

theyll probably struggle

[next edge]

Yeah but same time looks the perfect moment to change

Fresh xp, new gameplay

[crude topaz]

Just play what you enjoy man, it's not a WF guild as you said.

[oak sky]

even if you feel like optimizing somewhat don't forget you can always just swap back if you aren't feeling it

[next edge]

Yeah indeed

Probably will just go Sin and eventually learn it properly

[crude topaz]

Apply bleeds and poisons - deathmark + exang ( macro trinket uses here too ) and pump envenoms in between

That's the general gist haha

[oak sky]

exsang goes before deathmark

but yeah

[next edge]

Nah I get the basics

Are pretty straightforward honestly

[oak sky]

its gonna be mostly practice

when you know your fight timings by garrote casts thats when you're mastering

[crude topaz]

Sorry huh? U just rocked my world now

[next edge]

Just i was yesterday learning the opener and I was oof. But I'm just an overthinker, in 1 week or so should be super fine

[crude topaz]

Why ? Don't you amplify the timing on all 4 bleeds compared to 2 if you do it before DM?

[next edge]

Yeah mate

Exsang lowers DM

Do you don't want that

[oak sky]

the dm doubles your bleeds on press

so you exsang before so it doesnt also reduce deathmark

so its like garrote+ rupture then garrote + rupture again to get max duration, then exsang and you have fast garrote + rupture, then dm makes it double fast garrote + rupture

[next edge]

Opener is weird tbh

[oak sky]

its garbage

[next edge]

Really hope it gets changed

Gameplay wise I hate it a lot

[oak sky]

exsang would need to be reworked or removed

so

~6 months of this minimum

[next edge]

Without exsang opener would be way better

[crude topaz]

Learned a massive change today, thanks for that

[next edge]

Your welcome

Also don't pandemic your exsang

[oak sky]

ye always happy to help out

[next edge]

Let bleeds run out before reapply

[vernal adder]

I should hit a dummy abit, havent played sin really since legion

[oak sky]

like im imagining without exsang it would be something like ambush snd garrote er rupture mut envenom deathmark shiv kingsbane

ish

sbs for a mut probably if we play that

[subtle tundra]

I like exsang 🤓

[oak sky]

🤓 i enjoy my opener being 4 globals longer so i can extend my dot to the maximum + pandemic

[crystal nymph]

where should i use thistle tea for image 1 scenario ?

[next edge]

Always low energy

If you are low energy= use

[crystal nymph]

hmm

in opener ?

[oak sky]

anywhere when you have low energy

[next edge]

You don't need energy on opener I think

[crystal nymph]

i mean it's mastery is not important ?

[next edge]

Nope

[oak sky]

not important enough that you waste energy

[next edge]

I mean it is but not worth using gornit

[crystal nymph]

using it just for energy recover

ok thx

[limber lion]

Gar snd ambush sbs rup er dm shiv env kb

[next edge]

Most likely

[next edge]

It's way more intuitive than current one tbh

[oak sky]

not that we ever do that 🙃

[limber lion]

What's wrong with
Gar snd gar sbs rup er rup vanish gar exsang dm shiv env kb

:D

Oops almost forgot the spice

[next edge]

I just don't like it tbh

Buf it's just muscle memory I gueds

[oak sky]

double garrote double rupture

so fun

[fallen arch]

Its dumb

[oak sky]

i love my big damage

[limber lion]

What's wrong with it

[crystal nymph]

is there any build for now ? i mean prepatch

[limber lion]

KB + anything else you can fit

[next edge]

It sucks to reaply bleeds in such short time

[next edge]

Have you raided these days? How did you felt

[limber lion]

So you're saying you want to be a bleed apec but you don't wanna reapply bleeds

Hehe

[oak sky]

i mean like

[limber lion]

Not very recently no.

[oak sky]

to me it feels like

very unintuitive to apply a damage over time

then immediately clip it

[next edge]

I think it has nothing to do

With being a very unintuitive

Tbh

[oak sky]

to get the increased duration from pandemic

like

[limber lion]

I don't understand

[oak sky]

you rupture

then

you rupture again

wack as hell

[next edge]

End of thr day it's just get used and muscle memory

[limber lion]

Right

[next edge]

I just think feels wack

Honestly

[limber lion]

But then again

You also slam Envenom and lose a bunch of seconds of that buff every time you do it twice

[calm tangle]

Dont vanish that early

[limber lion]

Which is often

[oak sky]

envenom does do instant damage

i guess rupture does some

but it fulfills the filler role more naturally

[limber lion]

Rupture as a finisher does heaps more damage

Sure not instant

[oak sky]

over time

yes

[limber lion]

But as a button ptess

[oak sky]

of course

[calm tangle]

Lots more dmg per execution

[oak sky]

not even considering the energy it generates

but

the whole point is that its spread over its window right

like i dont mind exsang in concept

where you dot more

its this thing where you have to guarantee that you get max duration+ pandemic first

[uncut echo]

I mean you could just play bad and not exsang pandemic dots

[oak sky]

yeah

i could also play bad and not talent exsang

i could also never apply my dots

[limber lion]

Yeah and abuse the game mechanics to get more value out of talents, especially a talent infamously ad bad as Exsanguinate, which is a good thing.

[uncut echo]

Mhm

[limber lion]

You also only do that on the opener right

[oak sky]

why talk about below peak play, when peak play is what we should strive for and look to for design

[limber lion]

We're talking first 10s of a 300+ second fight

[oak sky]

like the strongest build is effectively the only build in a sense

because its representative of what the class is for usually most of its players

[oak sky]

you also refresh right before every exsang

[limber lion]

You do yeah

But you don't do the double gar double rup thing

If the bleed is in pandemic, you reapply like you normally would once

[oak sky]

yeah thats true

but its the same in concept yeah

applying early just to get like a supermax duration, potentially overwriting bleed you already applied even like 5-10 seconds ago

idk the exact durations which is why i said a range

[limber lion]

There's obviously some number that you want to aim for before exsang, might have to look into it

[oak sky]

i know whispyr's first thought was anything higher than natural full duration

but like yeah those are my main problems with exsang

i think 9.2 tier set did it better

since it was like a defined window where you play refreshing early

[next edge]

I agree that the idea of the spell feels ba

like you just reapplied on a pandemic window 5 secs ago both bleeds

you gotta do again for exsang

is weird

[limber lion]

You probs dont wanna do that

[oak sky]

i think like, circle of life and death for feral is also better than exsang in a way because it doubles down

[limber lion]

But yeh

Circle is great, it's just boring

[next edge]

Talking without a solid data behind, probably the sims tell us a timing further into DF

[oak sky]

if you're always refreshing early then you always play around refreshing early and theres less weird behavior

[limber lion]

It doesn't change gameplay much at all

[oak sky]

dont you rip more and bite less

[limber lion]

Of course

But that's just what normally happens with timera and pandemic

[oak sky]

i guess thats one way of looking at it

[limber lion]

Just because you press rip instead of bite every 18s doesn't change the gamrplay much at all

The rule and rotstion is still 100% the same

[oak sky]

its like a busier maintainence rotation than normal is sort of how i thought of it

[limber lion]

The priority is always rip if in pandelic > bite

Yeh fair enough

[oak sky]

like its the same base principle as exsang

dot reduction = more dotting

which i think is the good part of exsang

[limber lion]

Yeah Exsang is an active element in the rotation, you can never play Exsang and just slam it

You always have to change your rotation around it

Which personally I enjoy. Tracking Exsang bleeds and not overwriting them is also dope

Feral is a bit different because everything snapshots

[oak sky]

yeah i really think my main gripe is that it feels like damage disappears when you overwrite your bleeds

[limber lion]

So Exsang in an environment like that wouldn't really work supet great

[next edge]

You mean let exsang bleeds run out?

[oak sky]

feels weird for dots at least to me

[next edge]

i dont feel it that exciting

[limber lion]

It changes your rotation and forces you to track things you didn'y track before

[crude topaz]

What is the dps loss if you re-apply exang bleeds for pandemic purpose?

[oak sky]

like i do think that theres a way for exsang or a similar mechanic to exist in the game and for me to like it, but i just don't love the way it works right now

[oak sky]

you just lose the ticks from the halved duration

[next edge]

I guess. I see it as a "oh I just exsanginate so I will let these bleeds run out instead of pandemic"

[oak sky]

and like if you snapshotted the bleeds in any way you would lose that as well

any imp garrote/ haste shenanigans

[crude topaz]

Sorry is snapshotting re-applying?

[oak sky]

uh its like when the bleed does damage based on your stats or procs and things at the moment you applied it

[limber lion]

More often than not you'll see people reapplying Rupture too early after the Exsang because you press it and then 5s later you notice Rupture is at low duration so you mindlessly reapply it

[oak sky]

so like normally if your haste changes like from lust

then your bleeds dynamically adapt to that

and they get the hate

haste

[crude topaz]

Ah right so bleeds with trinketd lust pot etc

[limber lion]

An Exsang 7cp full pandemic rupture is LONG

[oak sky]

yeah but pretty much what happens is once you press exsang your bleed is locked into the haste from when you pressed exsang

normally bleeds dont snapshot, but they do with exsang

[iron orchid]

long enough to not care much about it during DM

[limber lion]

Exactly

You'll have it up for the entire DM window

[crude topaz]

Also, do I refresh bleeds right before DM expires?

[limber lion]

Doesn't matter

There is no overhang

[oak sky]

only if theyre in pandemic/ exsang bleeds or imp garrotes are running out

so just normal rules

[crude topaz]

Don't they reset the duration and maintain double?

[limber lion]

No

[crude topaz]

Ooooh. Damn

[limber lion]

The second bleed gets removed when dm drops

[crude topaz]

This is such great input. Thanks a lot. I spent so much time on dummy's but didn't notice this

Attention to detail close to fuck all on my part

Also, if you exang after DM you're basically cutting your DM short right? As opposed to pre DM

[next edge]

ye

[limber lion]

Yes, which is a massive dps loss

[next edge]

you dont want to exsang after DM

[crude topaz]

Yeah yeah I got that I just wanted to clarify why

[limber lion]

If you forget to press Exsang, it's better to just hold it until after dm

But just press it

Qe believe in you

[crude topaz]

Much appreciated fellas!

[next edge]

You'll get used to in sooner than you think

its just muscle memory

[oak sky]

The opener muscle memory should come quick

Easiest part

[next edge]

For me the opener is the worst tbh

hahaha

[crude topaz]

So I've been practicing a lot because I absolutely love it, but yeah, muscle memory indeed

It's combining that with having to dodge so much shit in m+/ raids that's my biggest hindrance

Also, by what you said earlier I take it there's big added value to use trinkets before exang, ideally macro bound

[oak sky]

Once you get it down the only thing that ruins it is a stupid fucking parry

[oak sky]

Uh only if its a haste trinket

Otherwise it usually won't interact

[crude topaz]

Ah I sse

[oak sky]

Yeah its like specifically because haste increases bleed tickrate

[crude topaz]

Yup yup

[oak sky]

And exsang doubles your bleed tickrate so

Something about that

Probably easier to code (maybe even impossible to do another way idk) the bleed not updating but getting double the ticks from whatever bleed was on the target when exsang was pressed

[limber lion]

It's definitely possible because that's what happened with SBS with the tier set

Double the tick rate and all that jazz during Vendetta and reset to normal tick rate after

Could just have the same effect from the proc

But yeh, no need to worry about haste snapshots for now

We'll see what kind of trinkets 10.1 brings along heh

[oak sky]

Yeah i kinda dug myself a hole by mentioning snapshotting earlier

Had to at least try to explain it

[undone lodge]

hi guys, maybe this is a stupid question, but according to the talent tree how do i know which one i'm using it?

am really sorry for this

[copper hazel]

click the words

[uncut echo]

Clixk the x

[copper hazel]

it turns them on and off basically

[undone lodge]

no no, that's not what i am asking...hmmm, geez translating is quite hard from my language LOL

[copper hazel]

uhhh, i guess you need to look at the tree you are planning and then cross check it with the list?

and then click the cross

so you look at the example ST tree

[undone lodge]

yes, something like this, now im logging ingame and try to screes shot it

[copper hazel]

then activate the talents in that list in the tree you are looking at

there should be an example on wowhead itself, in that section

that shows like 3 trees

[uncut echo]

And import codes

[copper hazel]

yeh thats a big one

use the codes to import the tree so its easier

(still read the talents so you know what it is)

[limber lion]

Nah its a super relevant topic around exsang, you're chilling

[undone lodge]

this means i am using Kingbane , right?

[uncut echo]

Sure does!

[next edge]

You also want exsang i think

[undone lodge]

and what it means "Individual Talent Changes" in wowhead means? is it mean the ones that i picked in my talent tree?

[oak sky]

That just means you pick the ones you have

[uncut echo]

Correct, to get the rotation, you need to select the talents in the talent changes tab from your first question.

So you'd select kingsbane, cut to the chase and that's it for now

[undone lodge]

ahhhh i get it now, thank you soooo much

[uncut echo]

🥳

Glad to help!!

[undone lodge]

pardon my english btw

[uncut echo]

We got there buddy. You did great

[undone lodge]

thank you

[short hearth]

Anyone have videos/streams of beta m+ gameplay for sin rogue?

[uncut echo]

I know @subtle tundra streams m+ sin gameplay from time to time!

[gusty mirage]

Spread bleeds, maintain slice and side, and maintain bleeds

[candid crypt]

guys i cant find vendetta on my assasination rogue, is it removed ?

[gusty mirage]

Yes

[uncut echo]

Turned into deathmark!

[gusty mirage]

It was removed for deathmark

[candid crypt]

ok ty

[uncut echo]

Way more fun and impactful imo!

[uncut echo]

Gm oxi

[gusty mirage]

Guten tag

[candid crypt]

so duskwalker patch legendary works with this new skill or no ?

[uncut echo]

Correct

It has been fixed

[gusty mirage]

No one reads the pins ever

[uncut echo]

Is ok bb

[candid crypt]

letme check 😂

[next edge]

I read you every time you post

youre my babe

[undone lodge]

so it will look like this right? @uncut echo

[uncut echo]

Sure does!!!

[copper hazel]

yeh problem you have there though, is its assuming you are using the lvl 70 build

so it includes ER

turn off the top kingsbane choice, then reclick the lower kingsbane

and itll be the lvl 60 version

[undone lodge]

@uncut echo @copper hazel ah okay thanks thanks

[copper hazel]

either way, itll tell you the same thing without the ER bit

[uncut echo]

Just a silly bug

Yeah

[copper hazel]

ye

[undone lodge]

so this one right?

[copper hazel]

yeh thats fine

[undone lodge]

thank you!!!

[oak sky]

You awake when i go asleep

We are not the same

[spice spire]

You sleep when I wake

[spare crow]

you sleep when I sleep

[spice spire]

No one wants my demonic schedule

[weak plover]

Where is exsang on that guide

[light spear]

[copper hazel]

[light spear]

that’s what i was trying to figure out before

[proper gulch]

How's Assa now?

[spice spire]

This looks like the 60 guide

[spice spire]

It’s good

[proper gulch]

Even in M+ 👀

[spice spire]

I’m barely awake so forgive.

[spice spire]

Step below havoc/outlaw tier, but it’s good enough raw ST helps carry it and makes it just slightly worse

It looks to be more than playable

For 99% of the people that do m+

[proper gulch]

Alright, awesome

Thanks

[wooden sable]

So in the "fine for weekly 20s" category at least? #yay

[spice spire]

Definitely more than fine for weekly 18s in current state

[brisk forge]

All specs is good for 18 keys 😉

[wooden sable]

Even MM hunter?

[cobalt hemlock]

so you only need to do a +18 in df for the best vault loot i thought it was 20 for some reason

[wooden sable]

I thought it was 20, now I'm reading 18 ... my old tired brain is so confused

Yeah, it's still 20

[heavy vessel]

in the opener it's deathmark then vanish once the empowered garrote is in pandemic correct?

[next edge]

You want to vanish garrote inside DM

If I'm not mistaken ye

Not sure if you wanted to wait until pandemic though

[heavy vessel]

important to keep DM and Van cds lined up, not 8ish seconds off?

[spice spire]

Yeah sure

We could find a random gain tomorrow that changes that though

But for now, looks that way

[next edge]

That's why i dont go to deep into learning more than basics

[valid leaf]

Hello boys does anyone have some prepatch assa footage

[next edge]

Because suddenly all can change

[valid leaf]

And how does assa even feel on prepatch

[spice spire]

It’s fine.
Looking good in df, prepatch is wonky but good still

[valid leaf]

M+ content its carnage all the way ?

And how does your opener look like with carnage ?

Carnage garrote rupture into fok tempest?

And also swifty oneshoot macro with deathmark and consumables etc

[night delta]

carnage pre-pull, then pretty much that yeah

[valid leaf]

Thanks

[night delta]

If you specced into exsang, you might want to exsang the prio target also

[valid leaf]

Outlaw got boring to me want to back to the roots

I dont know i didnt spec anything yet im researching atm on work so when i get back home im informed

And while i wait for DF wanted to start getting that finger memory with assa

[next edge]

FOK CT spam

That's what I live for

[crude topaz]

Feels good with the fok dmg increase and the conduit +7% dmg and 5% crit haha

[potent stone]

will these buffs bring assa closer to outlaw to compete or is it still meh

[next edge]

It is closer

[cobalt hemlock]

is good

[next edge]

But behind

On m+

Which is fine

Assa does more ST

[thorn fjord]

Its been more than 24hrs and i still havent received the Dragon Kite pet thingy

😦

[teal bloom]

did you claim it from your twitch inventory?

[thorn fjord]

Yep

And its connected to my bnet account

[teal bloom]

hmm 😦

[normal mist]

Got mine yesterday, like ... 20h ago

[loud zinc]

I've heard that the caster dagger, Antumbra, is going to be disabled at level 61 in DF. Has anyone heard if the same thing will happen to Edge of Night?

[uncut echo]

You'll probably get a quest green to replace that thing instantly

[honest vessel]

heavily expected it to get nerfed

or disabled

[thorn fjord]

And here I am thinking we’ll be using it tier 1 🤣

[violet jackal]

0 chance you were walking into raid with one as assassination

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1AALKJEGU_PJmurTubS8JbFrV8CRN5H7XCKgYeQ2lFhM/htmlview

[thorn fjord]

Oh yeah for sure that aint gonna be a thing

[uncut echo]

I got 2 of em just in case :)

[plain elk]

Does Deathmark duplicate bleeds/poisons already on the target? Or only those applied after?

[split cipher]

Already applied are duped

This was not true with the original iteration

[strange python]

Question tho : do dots already applied get increased damage when you activate an agi trinket let’s say

[plain elk]

Thanks

[limber lion]

Yes.

[oblique tangle]

Took me a week to get that kiriko skin but dragon kite showed up literally instantly while I was in game lmfao

[strange python]

Like If I Carnage, then garrote and Rupture, do my garrote will benefice from the +24% Agility my 8 Ruptures did give me ?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[strange python]

Okey thanks

[balmy condor]

The only snapshot that still exists is a haste snapshot on exsanguinated bleeds

And it’s janky and probably not worth thinking about

[uncut echo]

Rip snapshot

[spice spire]

No man

[subtle tundra]

h-haste snapshot?

[balmy condor]

No not rip

God bless

Good riddance

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

Rest in piss

Wont be missed

[spice spire]

Have you slept Whispyr

[subtle tundra]

yea we did

;3

[balmy condor]

It’s 8:30, I just ended a 7 hour maplestory stream, and I got home at 12:30 last night

Do the math

[subtle tundra]

🖕

you do the math

not me

[spice spire]

Mf I just slept in chill!

[balmy condor]

:)

It was great

[spice spire]

Ur great

[gusty mirage]

[vernal adder]

[red atlas]

we got buffs?

[spice spire]

Yeah on reset

[grizzled jay]

Bring back Expedient snapshots

[uncut echo]

Whispyr why are your emotes so cute

Jesus

I looooove them

[grizzled jay]

[spice spire]

No man

[gusty mirage]

what a terrible take

holy

[uncut echo]

HAHAHAHA

[spice spire]

I love all of vhispyrs emotes

[gusty mirage]

I made the face in my pfp when I read that

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

I hope you're happy

[spice spire]

I’m always happy

[gusty mirage]

not you

not everything revolves around you

OKAY BUDDY?

[spice spire]

Buddy I’m random white guy #4672224738 - nothing revolves around me

[gusty mirage]

go investigate the haunted house

[spice spire]

No man

I’ll investigate living

Ty

But also our response to expedient really shows how boomer we are

Bless up

[green harbor]

why are quake and oxi randomly really funny recently

[sour elm]

Kidnapped most likely

[spice spire]

I’m always this way. Oxi’s been frisky lately though, he’s a pretty funny lad though

[subtle tundra]

🧢

[uncut echo]

Uncap

Oxi is based

Varas toxic

[gusty mirage]

varas just jealous I haven't acted on the sexual tension between us yet

[uncut echo]

It's only a little spicy

[spice spire]

That’s true oxì

I know I get jealous when it’s been a while

[gusty mirage]

what is this auto correct nonsense

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

why the weird i

[spice spire]

Bro idk man

Old name of yours?

[gusty mirage]

unlikely

[spice spire]

On Zuljin or some shit?

I mean I only say oxi when related to you do

[subtle tundra]

[gusty mirage]

oh

yeah

when I was on zuljin

I completely blocked that part of SL from my brain

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

my fav part of SL

[spice spire]

Ozwild moment

[gusty mirage]

not like our boomkins were any better

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

7 dps under our prot pally on dps

no wonder why I looked that way in my pfp

[grizzled jay]

Genuises are often misunderstood

[thorn fjord]

Bro i JUST got the sloth in game

Wasnt that months ago?

[spice spire]

It’s a good thing that ain’t happening here

[sour elm]

What’s expedient snapshots?

[subtle kiln]

good afternoon speedy bleedy rogues

[cerulean nest]

how do you coordinate getting max pandemic bleeds when exsang randomly comes up?

like what if I just refreshed them a few seconds beforehand and neither are in pandemic yet, or one is, but the other was just refreshed earlier

[gusty mirage]

some degenerate shit that was a 8.3 thing where we could stack expedient (haste % from all source) corruptions

slap down a trinket that gave giga haste

and then exsang

[sour elm]

Oooh corruptions

[gusty mirage]

and people keep remembering it fondly for some ungodly reason

[grizzled jay]

That was better than this current monstrosity

[sour elm]

Wait corruptions we’re dope

Bring back expedient snapshotting

[vast loom]

big numbers mean its obviously fun 🙂

[gusty mirage]

how

[spice spire]

???????

[gusty mirage]

in what way is playing around a dogshit trinket

better than sending exsang on CD with full pandemic bleeds?

[spice spire]

If oxi and I agree on something it’s bad news

[gusty mirage]

people just have a case of the zoomies

[grizzled jay]

By "this monstrosity" I mean the entire package that is current Sin

[gusty mirage]

current sin is fine

what's the issue with it

if you don't like kingsbane you take dtb

literally the only change from all of SL is that we take exsang as a talent

and play ER

[grizzled jay]

Hotbar bloat bad, 4 buttons good.

[subtle tundra]

wtf u mean

assa plays so good ;3

[gusty mirage]

idk I'm having a blast with kingsbane

despite the button bloat

it's just a few more binds

it's whatever

[subtle kiln]

any galecallers fans?

[grizzled jay]

Never did get the Boon

And I was forced to give the only ra den trinket that dropped for me to a Warrior

[gusty mirage]

so you don't like the expedient exsang snapshots

because you never played around it

[grizzled jay]

I had Heroic version

[subtle kiln]

please leave logic out of this argument.

[red tinsel]

I think so too, but we don't have Thistle Tea yet... I think I'll have one too many buttons and may want to drop MfD for Deeper

I wonder how much of a DPS loss would be to avoid Thistle, but I don't think there's another capstone I'd want for Assa

[strange python]

does subterfuge works for 3 sec after Shadow dance fades too ? So a 9 sec window to improved garrot everyone ?

[red tinsel]

I think so

[strange python]

a second Carnage

1 min Cd

Thank u

[red tinsel]

I say that because I clearly remember in Shadowlands using it to apply multiple garrotes

[strange python]

well, you didn"t have shadow dance in shadow lands

why my question

[red tinsel]

As a new capstone? It'd be nice wouldn't it? A class capstone that makes the next Evis/Envenom/Dispatch hit AoE

[red tinsel]

Oh I'm sorry I misread you question

I don't know, it'd make sense to me

[strange python]

Does Shadowdance work EXACTLY the same as stealth regarding subterfuge

Y it would make sense

But if y, I'm definitely going down this road with further talents

[red tinsel]

Let me ask you instead, did Master Assassin work on Shadowdance? I don't think it did, so it may be treated differently than Stealth

[gusty mirage]

shadowdance should interact the same way all stealth interactions work

that was one thing realz made sure of

[honest vessel]

i believe the impression is that it will

[balmy condor]

Shadow dance gives the effects of stealth, it is not stealth. Any “in stealth” type effects will work with dance, while things like “for 3 seconds after stealth” do not work, since dance is not a stealth

[balmy condor]

It didn’t use to, but it does now

[honest vessel]

coincidence?

[subtle kiln]

why do we hate vowels?

[honest vessel]

must be something primal, something deep down

[subtle kiln]

hate less.

[honest vessel]

tru

[subtle kiln]

find more positives

[honest vessel]

now i get to rupture twice in a row! i love rupture! it does dam and gives me energy 😄

[subtle kiln]

it could always be worse. could be sub

even worse padlaw

[honest vessel]

love other specs too c:

all the love

roll the bones is a sick ability and deserves our love

i will die on this hill

[subtle kiln]

i enjoy all 3 for different reasons.

[honest vessel]

fuck yeah

need name color for appreciating all of our differences and what makes each spec special

[viscid spear]

[spice spire]

You spelled hate wrong king

[gusty mirage]

may I refer you to the copypasta someone made in OT

@nimble tartan

[honest vessel]

hahahahahaha

i love it

thats a chad fucking move

[nimble tartan]

heh

[subtle kiln]

I can enjoy being hateful buddy

[spice spire]

Respect

[uncut echo]

That's fucking amazing

I'd snake eyes my way up to a sweet cream coldbrew

[spice spire]

Sweet cream

[digital kite]

With the buffs for Sin is it better than Outlaw now or not yet?

[uncut echo]

Jokes on you I hate coffee it'd be a vanilla bean frap

But I gotta high roll that shit

[gusty mirage]

better in ST worse on cleave

[honest vessel]

hard to know suite, but we are looking very good

[spice spire]

Better st, everywhere else less so

[spice spire]

You’re the worst

[uncut echo]

Cleave is a big portion of the raid

[spice spire]

according to Val

[uncut echo]

🥰

[spice spire]

She hates frap enjoyers

[gusty mirage]

frappucino enjoyers are the bane of every bux barista

[spice spire]

Yes man

[gusty mirage]

it's so much more effort

[spice spire]

She will bitch about every single one a day

Which I can respect that amount of hatred

[gusty mirage]

tell her frappucino happy hour when it comes up in the spring

from me

happy frappucino happy hour*

[uncut echo]

I just like a milkshake

[honest vessel]

hmm what do i want....

🎲

[spice spire]

I’m bulling they’re fine

[spice spire]

She said to keep yourself safe

In less words

[gusty mirage]

might have to hit up the greater nashville area for some frappucinos during frappy hour

[spice spire]

Order 20 of them

[gusty mirage]

of course

[uncut echo]

Based

[spice spire]

So I get to hear about it

[gusty mirage]

idk what the fuck these people do with 20 of them

[spice spire]

I’ll even give you the store number

[uncut echo]

Redcup tho?

[gusty mirage]

AYO?

[uncut echo]

Over 100 buckers on strike today :)

[spice spire]

Idk how the fuck these dudes transport them

[gusty mirage]

does her store have a drive thru

[spice spire]

Yes sir

[gusty mirage]

lmfao

hahahahahahaha

handing in 6 drink carries

[spice spire]

Order in drive thru always

[gusty mirage]

of fraps

[spice spire]

Never call ahead

[gusty mirage]

of course not

[uncut echo]

I NEED THEM NAAAAOOOO

[gusty mirage]

we never had the call ahead for anything except the coffee travelers

cause they took a fucking full batch