assassination

[royal lantern]

ew

druid

[sour elm]

come on now feral is just the furry version of sin

[spice spire]

You’d figure tryan would be a huge fan

[royal lantern]

no

i have enough dignity left to not touch druid

legit worst playerbase in this game

• i dont wanna be a cat, i wanna be a fox guy stabbing people

[sand elm]

i dno, have u been to the dk discord

[next edge]

Make Vulpera Druid

and then I main that shit

[limber lion]

Nah Ferals are chill

boomies are the problem

[sour elm]

undead druids when

[royal lantern]

tainted by balance

[next edge]

gotta said Feralcommunity is super nice

[sour elm]

kultiran stole undead druids forms

[next edge]

and really fun

[spice spire]

Picture of cat as pfp

[sour elm]

• they have Psybear and that dude is crazy chill

[spice spire]

I’m watching you mister lambda

[next edge]

Adopted him 2 weeks ago I just can't avoid having him as pfp

[royal lantern]

atleast no anime pfp

anime pfp=worst takes on this world will come

[sand elm]

very boopable snoot

[viscid spear]

[next edge]

Based

[spice spire]

Oh he’s adorable holy moly I thought it was a random kitty

[royal lantern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/355817874050383873/1037727841682472960/aa9q42bklrx91.jpg

[sour elm]

[next edge]

Hhahaa no! We found it abandoned in a gas station

and well, my GF and I just couldn't let him there

so we just adopted him

[sour elm]

im not convinced the pfp isn't you so idk

suspiciously well rehearsed story imo

[spice spire]

Depends, you can tell. The bad from the good

[viscid spear]

But my animu!

[spice spire]

[shy axle]

anyone got a link where i can read up how the speccs are in comparison to each other at 70 right now? Did not follow the discussion at all. I know they can/might change etc

[sand elm]

i dont think theres a comprehensive document or anything with comparisons

general idea is outlaw>>>>>>>>>>sin=sub

currently

[viscid spear]

First ask yourself these questions:

1. What spec do I enjoy?
2. Am I skilled at that spec?
3. Is there a reason I should play a different spec from #1, like my guild preferring it or because sims make it seem better?
4. Why do we park in driveways and drive on parkways?
5. Am I really playing this game to have fun?

[vestal wren]

6. ignore all questions and play what you want

[shy axle]

@sand elm that assa overviwe when opening the channel made me think it might be assa, thanks

@viscid spear that might read itself nice but cmon, maybe i should have worded it better, just interested in numbers. But its fine

[viscid spear]

So #1...

[royal lantern]

playing rimworld now, wtf it worked

[bright elk]

Sin for raid, outlaw for m+, and sub for questing. I love them equally.

[viscid spear]

Like fuu said, play what you want. Unless someone is telling you otherwise

[balmy condor]

Just number wise you spec outlaw and then wait until 10.1

[honest vessel]

wheeldecide your spec every day at reset

[royal lantern]

you mean outlaw for raiding, outlaw for m+ and outlaw for questing right?

[balmy condor]

Or we log in on Tuesday and outlaw got obliterated

Who knows

[vestal wren]

its just like

if there is still time between now and the first DF raid

and that things probably change during that time period

[balmy condor]

Oh they will for sure

People asking what spec is looking best before the second week of raid

Week 1 tuning gonna be crazy

[royal lantern]

oh yeha, sure

[spice spire]

What’s the best looking spec mister orange name??

[vestal wren]

or... maybe we all need to play ww given that it was the best 2 weeks ago by a large margin

[royal lantern]

take your meds grandpa

[vestal wren]

that is def. a good indication of DF balance

[royal lantern]

affliction

[viscid spear]

Outlaw has been reverted back to Combat

[balmy condor]

No no, I want it nerfed not buffed

[royal lantern]

whisp turned into the anti-endlesslad

[spice spire]

Longtimeboy

[royal lantern]

what was the "optimal" play for vanish now?

just slam on cd for the 2nd+ cast? or did whispr actually find a weird sync tech now?

[balmy condor]

[royal lantern]

now im smart and know the answer

[balmy condor]

You either slam it on cd, which lands each vanish about 8-10 seconds into Deathmark

ORRRRR

You sync them up by slamming the vanish with Deathmark in opener and overwriting the garrotes from pull

[royal lantern]

for that one, we use the first vanish to pandemic the pull garrote right

just wanna be 200%sure

[balmy condor]

You would do like gar snd gar sbs mut rup deathmark vanish gar

The only issue is, that doesn’t work for exsang builds

[royal lantern]

I LOVE EXSANG

[sour elm]

i choose to pretend exsang doesn't exist

[royal lantern]

realz, if you read this

just alt f4 exsang

dont even need to replace it

[spice spire]

Buddy

[sand elm]

get out

[royal lantern]

he allready deleted it from his thoughts

but not from the game

[honest vessel]

exsang ❤️

[sour elm]

[viscid spear]

My man literally spent 10g to respec his memories

[sand elm]

shame ignoring it doesnt make the problem go away

[royal lantern]

convince whispr to ignore exsang aswell

[oblique jackal]

RIP, even the dev hates exsang lol

[royal lantern]

so he doesnt put it into his sims

[spice spire]

Just wait until the PB CT dungeon slice sims

[viscid spear]

Just turn the radio up in your car of it keeps making funny noises
Apply this to WoW somehow idk

[sand elm]

no cos hes the highest person in the community that the devs will listen to

need him fighting our battles

[royal lantern]

i thought seli was the higest person?

he got outlaw KILLED afterall

[sand elm]

i just assuming whispyr is cos he writes the wowhead guides for sin

[hidden crown]

I see pin, what changed

[night delta]

I propose that, as a collective, we unanimously sandbag exsang logs and "prove" to everyone the ability isn't worth it

do what the devs can't

[sour elm]

is this the sin version of "become ungovernable"?

if so, i like it

[sand elm]

dusk message was moved to the top cos people kept asking about it

[royal lantern]

implying people read pins

[sand elm]

[hidden crown]

aaa I see....

[oblique jackal]

They should just get rid of exsang

[spice spire]

Mfers really be hating on Exsang, unreal

[viscid spear]

Not me

[royal lantern]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)

[oblique jackal]

It’s a clunky play style and the button doesn’t feel good to press

[cursive summit]

Exsang discussion rolls around at least 5 times a day kekw

[timid cloud]

Nobody reads the pins.

Don't be delusional.

People just write words there & others ignore them.

Btw, Duskwalker broken?

Ohh ohh, better one….SHIV broken?

(For legal purposes these are jokes.)

[fading wigeon]

The crazier part of the question is why would we expect blizzard to spend any resources this late into..checks notes...PREPATCH!!!.... fixing a legendary that's not going to impact most of the player base in a few weeks ...

[obsidian beacon]

Exsang makes it hard for me to manage my CP but when I see the bleed timer on my target going super fast it makes me

[royal lantern]

i do the SAME DMG BUT FASTER

[obsidian beacon]

You get it

[timid cloud]

Wow! I had to refresh Garret & Roopture** 4 times in 2 seconds. CRAZY!

[dark token]

Cause bruh it's like 0 resources

Tweak one spell id

And they fixed other broken stuff

[timid cloud]

Spaghetti code 15 years old.

[next edge]

Well

I assume that it's probably more than 0 resources

and right now those 0,001% resources are oriented into stuff that is way more meaningful

[timid cloud]

Probs.

[vestal wren]

with or without meatballs?

[timid cloud]

I’m not too pressed, just a little disheartened by it.

I got some meatballs right here for ya hotrod.

[royal lantern]

meatballs ofc included

[vestal wren]

nice

[royal lantern]

but yeha, im somewhat sure blizz has better stuff to do then "fixing" a meaningless legendary that can only be used for 3weeks when we dont even have a active raidtier

[next edge]

I just had meatballs today thanks for reminding me how good they were

[quasi steppe]

whats the bis leggos in m+ as assa now?

[indigo epoch]

Im still using zoldycks/unity because im too lazy to craft something else

Lol

[sand elm]

not even using legendaries

[balmy condor]

probably like dust or deathly or zold or something idk

[cerulean walrus]

hmmmmmm

Idk man

[balmy condor]

or tiny toxic

or dusk (bugged)

finality still works on sin rupture

cause it's the same rupture spell id

maybe that's good

(it isn't)

[cerulean walrus]

Assassination in shambles

[indigo epoch]

So tired of prepatch already

Bring on the main course!

[sand elm]

ngl im the same. i just wanna play the proper build already lol

[candid geyser]

You can.

It's called Outlaw.

[sand elm]

[candid geyser]

[obsidian beacon]

[proper tapir]

For real, I can't wait for some pog exsangs

[sand elm]

i dont have a 1h weapon so i cant even if i wanted to become a villain

[indigo epoch]

[subtle tundra]

what the fuck

[candid geyser]

buy a 226 sword

from ah

youll do more dmg

than sin

😄

[obsidian beacon]

Just spam pistol shot

[slow marsh]

There's just something about peeping the assa channel and seeing that it's in shambles. So nostalgic

[sand elm]

226 mainhand and 298 eon in offhand

[indigo epoch]

Just keep telling myself that every other spec will get tuned down first week. I almost believe me.

[sand elm]

its possible considering how boomkin, ww and enhancement have all been nerfed so heavily

[proper tapir]

I like high skill cap stuff. Idk man.

[sand elm]

but im not expecting any sin buffs or changes till 10.1 at this point

[viscid spear]

Quick, go to OT and roll a new main

[balmy condor]

yeah that's exsang for sure

[fallen arch]

Is it not deleted yet

[sand elm]

devs want us to play it so not yet no

[cerulean walrus]

[oak sky]

Next step in the cycle is shit tuning and dead chat

[slow marsh]

Yep then the copium begins shortly after

[iron orchid]

3 * 8% aura buff

then chat alive again

we scale

[slow marsh]

Then the true lords will start putting in work and all of a sudden hopium and a new wave of noobs who don't know how it works and say it's bad and then at the end of the patch everyone is playing it

[next edge]

They won't aura buff

At least they shouldn't

If they brought it back to 0 is to tune stuff properly

[kindred oriole]

Well they have 2 weeks left no?

Like we don't know, maybe some more balancing is coming.

[sand elm]

they brought it down to 0 to tune and then didnt tune anything lol

[next edge]

That's false

[kindred oriole]

That's not true though.

[next edge]

And would be amazing to not spread lies like that

[sand elm]

so ur saying we're in a perfectly fine position and dont need any tuning right now?

[next edge]

Uh, what?

[kindred oriole]

No we need more tuning.

[next edge]

More tuning is need

but that's not the same as "they didnt tune anything"

[kindred oriole]

He never said we didn't need more tuning...

[next edge]

which is absolutely false

[balmy condor]

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[kindred oriole]

Ha ha

[balmy condor]

literally one of the most insane statements I have read in the last week

[kindred oriole]

Owned. Point, game, and match to Whispyr.

[next edge]

If you ever cared to even check Pins for once

you can see that from the last 5, 2 at least are about tuning

[balmy condor]

but maybe they actually just don't know, let me compile a list really quick of the tuning

[kindred oriole]

No but you pinned a list of the latest changes. He can just read it up.

[next edge]

Such a statement is also quite disrespectful towards Realz and his team which has been AMAZING in terms of feedback and doing changes

[balmy condor]

Envenom increased by 37.5%
Fan of Knives increased by 20%
Garrote increased by 20%
Mutilate by 10%
Rupture by 10%
Amp poison by 18%
Bloody Mess from 10% per point to 15%
Crimson Tempest instant Damage by 125% (that's not a typo)
Deadly Poison by 10%
Kingsbane by 10%
Sepsis by 20%
Bone Spike by 10% for both instant and bleed
Venom Rush back from 5 to 7 (was 8, I promise that's not confusing)
Venomous wounds from 5 to 6 (was 7)
Poison Bomb nerfed by 20%
Ambush 20%
Garrote 5%
Rupture 5%
Mutilate 5%
Deathmark 15%
Amp poison 5%
Scent cap from 5 target to 8

DIDNT TUNE ANYTHING BTW

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[limber lion]

[subtle tundra]

he has gone

i love spreading misinformation

[kindred oriole]

But guys. They "brought it down to zero", them "didn't tune anything".

[subtle tundra]

btw assa in m+ on beta is extremely shit. does 0 dps. there's no way it competes with outlaw

[kindred oriole]

I don't know play outlaw then.

[next edge]

Stop flagelating yourself

[balmy condor]

imagine they bring the aura buff down by 34%

And then buff poisons by over 10%, and buff bleeds by 15%, and buff every generator by 15-20%, and envenom by almost 40%, and buff CT, and basically every cooldown sin has

and you're so delusional

to say they haven't tuned anything

[copper hazel]

yo i heard exang is decent, have you tried talenting that

[subtle tundra]

i dont want to speak about exsang.

[ember mural]

is duskwalkers fixed

[subtle tundra]

i shall not give any more information

[hot chasm]

So whats the prediction on spec balance in DF? Outlaw seems to be the M+ pick

[next edge]

[dawn merlin]

outlaw over the other two at this point

[cobalt hemlock]

when you go to massive pull and see your top dmg is xymox trinket and thats its like 25% of your dmg

[hot chasm]

Hopefully assa can still be the go to in raids

[subtle tundra]

well outlaw has always been the m+ pick cause cancer design

[ember mural]

gotta run before he sees

[subtle tundra]

sure i care about prepatch sure dude

[kindred oriole]

Ah la la

[balmy condor]

idk if you're a league player, but you just did the equivalent of asking who's winning worlds before play-ins were finished

and uh

that aged well

[cobalt hemlock]

well not everyone is so priviliged they can play beta like you are sir

[next edge]

So Assa is seed 4 LCK and ends winning worlds

pog

[dawn merlin]

that'll hopefully be the case in 1-2 target scenarios, a world where outlaw is also the best single target spec is not pretty

[hot chasm]

Like this dude?
https://twitter.com/atrioc/status/1588700372910354432?s=46&t=NXCqJ_uoX4EJ7tEgyalCEw

Atrioc (@Atrioc)

Getting a tattoo after your team wins shows pride.

But getting one the day before they play?

That shows confidence.

Likes

41010

Retweets

1900

Twitter · Nov 5, 2022, 1:11 AM

[balmy condor]

[kindred oriole]

...

[subtle tundra]

spoiler: the raid is full of add fights

[balmy condor]

if you care about what the best spec is

ask after the tuning pass that happens first week of raid

[next edge]

So just garrote and Rupture them?????????

[subtle tundra]

FUCK

HOW DID I NOT THINK OF THAT

FUCK

[hot chasm]

Its so obvious

[next edge]

Do you also know if you shiv thsoe adds you do 20% more nature dmg to them?

maybe that helps you kill adds better

[subtle tundra]

ok so i garrote rupture

EXSANG

[kindred oriole]

Just tunnel boss, let fire mages kill those adds. Everyone happy.

[next edge]

[subtle tundra]

and then i get half the bleed dmg off on them before they die

(on one of them)

[subtle tundra]

or play outlaw, tunnel boss, do more ST than assa and kill adds owo

[hot chasm]

Winning the boss dmg meters is also important.

[surreal mason]

Its always nice to see 1-2 ticks of bleed dmg before some burst class nukes the add

[subtle tundra]

the outlaw already does

[balmy condor]

CT will deliver us

(it won't)

[next edge]

Fuck CT.

[kindred oriole]

Depends if you care about kill the boss or parsing on adds. But sure just play outlaw man.

[subtle tundra]

LOL

[next edge]

You realise that right now outlaw does mroe ST and has BF which kills adds on demand

right

[subtle tundra]

outlaw doesnt sacrifice ST to do aoe

[kindred oriole]

You realize that you are talking about raid tunning 2 weeks before release right?

[subtle tundra]

i also gaslight myself from time to time

[next edge]

Thats why we talk about right now

We know the same that you about future

but what we can tak then?

[hot chasm]

Wasn't in BFA outlaw was the go to for everything?

[next edge]

about current data

[kindred oriole]

There is literally no way, NO-WAY, to know for sure which class will do more single dmg in the raid.

[next edge]

Nah

[next edge]

[subtle tundra]

i mean, assa outlaw and sub are all decently close in ST

rn

so they cant buff assa and sub too much, nor can they nerf outlaw ST too much

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

assa close in ST

[kindred oriole]

It's not now.

[hot chasm]

Sub good on add heavy dungeons I guess

[next edge]

Isnt it like 7-8% behind

in pure ST?

[subtle tundra]

i was going off of this from fuu

[dawn merlin]

[subtle tundra]

from when the buffs came in

ok sure outlaw does 5k more ST

ok its a lot

[balmy condor]

how is 10% behind close in single target hello

[dawn merlin]

haha

[next edge]

Its 10% more ST dmg

brufh

[subtle tundra]

59k....64k didnt seem a lot in my head when i did the math

[balmy condor]

and then outlaw got like 5 bugfixes that are all dps increases

[subtle tundra]

ok

fuck this

[kindred oriole]

I mean why are we like fighting over this, there could be 3 buffs/nerfs between now and the first week of raid...

[subtle tundra]

nerf outlaw

[cobalt hemlock]

like the in podcast lets not hate on each other and focus hate on the wizard men nerf moonkin and warlocks!

[hot chasm]

We're all gonna roll the bones

[cobalt hemlock]

and windwalker

[subtle tundra]

or they could say whatever and leave rogue

[kindred oriole]

True

[subtle tundra]

honestly i wouldnt care if sub was the best cause they dont just press bladeflurry and do omega aoe and omega st at the same time

this is all cause of my hatred towards outlaw

[kindred oriole]

If you can't beat them join them they say.

[subtle tundra]

no cause its not fun

[sour elm]

yo ho

a pirates

[hot chasm]

We all becomng yellow names

[sour elm]

life for me

[subtle tundra]

sub is fun, other classes are fun

outlaw aint it

[kindred oriole]

It's like playing DH, but in Yellow.

[next edge]

ur talking as outlaw is a super simple spec

which it isnt

[subtle tundra]

no cause DH doesnt bladeflurry to do omega aoe and omega st

[subtle tundra]

and????????

[next edge]

Well its not just press BF and then go brrr, its a cmplex spec to pull off properly

[subtle tundra]

its still cancer design

[balmy condor]

it's the cycle of spec channels if you haven't been around lately:

• someone says some absolutely vile shit or just spreads misinformation on the internet for free
• everyone responds "dude are you on crack what universe is this"
• we talk about what the actual reality is
• "doesn't matter anyway cause we're in beta"
• "yeah thats true, that's true, that's pretty true" -trainwrecks
• "man fuck I wish we were good"
• afk until next tuning pass
• tuning happens
• "GUYS ARE WE GOOD?"
• go back to step 1

[next edge]

i mean it is press BF and go brrr

but its not an easy spec

[subtle tundra]

bladeflurry is cancer design

i dont care

[next edge]

I agree

with yu

[next edge]

Pin this please

[kindred oriole]

I apologize, can't see the cycle when you're in your first cycle 😛

[spice spire]

He forgot one part

@balmy condor dusk fixed?!?!

[subtle tundra]

delete outlaw

[hot chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/alan-tudyk-garr-dodge-ball-pirate-gif-9492100

[balmy condor]

the only part I forgot is 4am whispyr meltdown over some sim bullshit that's taken up the whole day

those are sporadic

[spice spire]

Brother

Why

How many sims

Have you done on this one thing

[balmy condor]

how many SIMS or how many profiles

[subtle tundra]

you do that and then i proceed to play dtb with amp in m+

[balmy condor]

good, that's the best build right now

[subtle tundra]

i still dont know if i want amp or instant on aoe

[hot chasm]

You should get you access to some NASA supercomputer to do these sims faster.

[balmy condor]

what's wrong with that

[balmy condor]

brother what

[subtle tundra]

exactly

[balmy condor]

why is that a question

[subtle tundra]

I DONT KNOW????????

[spice spire]

Let’s start with sims

[subtle tundra]

they do the same instant dmg?

[balmy condor]

okay

[sour elm]

wound

[balmy condor]

so then why don't you know which you want

[subtle tundra]

cause huhughhuhm m i got confused at one point bcs of ttk

DONT ASK HOW

but yea dtb+amp in m+ cranks that ST so bad , i do no aoe but atleast i feel good on bosses

i finish ST boss with 45k dps but my overall is 50k cause holy shit where's my aoe

[hot chasm]

Is IC really that weak?

[balmy condor]

so I've been averaging a steady 15 iterations a day for about 10 days (it's been 2 weeks but there were some rest days), with each iteration being a set of sims in about 7 situations. So Id say total sims probably in the 500-600 range

[subtle tundra]

its extremely weak on ST so unless it fucking destroys in aoe(it doesnt) its never gonna get played

[spice spire]

Now how many different profiles

[balmy condor]

so each iteration I usually have the baseline, the current best, and then I look at changing 1 part, with various estimates for what would be good. sometimes I'll change 1 part in like 2-3 different ways, so we're looking at 8-12 profiles in each iteration, which balances out the situations number. So now it depends on how you're counting profiles. Technically it's also in that 500-600 range of just "attempted logic that has failed", but if you count the logic in dslice and that same logic in hectic add cleave as 2 separate items, it's probably closer to 5000

and because the whole thing crumbled under the weight of poison bomb the plan now is to ignore all that and start from scratch

[spice spire]

[brisk crystal]

it is possible that the legendary effect "duskwalker's loop" don't work with deathmark?

[balmy condor]

perhaps

it is a consideration

that you might consider reality

if your imagination is able to be transported into the tangible

[strange python]

[viscid spear]

That's a lot of words for "yes"

[balmy condor]

I can put it another way. Consider each sim as a top-gear for CT logic, where instead of picking items out, I changed how I cast CT

If you simmed yourself in top gear once a day, it would take you almost 2 years to sim the same amount as me in the last 2 weeks

[deft flicker]

@balmy condor your pinned builds guide says that one can go Flying Daggers + Blindside in AoE builds, but no hint on what talents to drop to get the points and I'm kinda confused. What do I drop in that case??

[limber lion]

do yourself a favor and don't.

[balmy condor]

venom rush, sbs+doomblade

but yeah

there's a reason I don't go into what to drop the points

and that's because no one will play that shit

[deft flicker]

Aight

Guess there's also a reason you mentioned that option at all

[balmy condor]

it's technically better according to the sim and if you top gear yourself it can pop out

so if I don't mention it

I'm gonna get pinged WHAT ABOUT THE FAFJFSDJFEOAGROIRFW#JOIFHEAOIJ_)P)!@UE@$#()$%T%UY^%RT^&)%E$YW#^%@*$U)(%$^%^U&R%Y$^#@($)#%$^%&^U%#^@%)(!$)UQWRE)T(SGDF

[livid bronze]

Probably a silly question but I see the images for the exsang builds but do you have an import for the beta m+ builds? I want to try them but not sure where the points go outside the obvious ones you mention in the pin.

[balmy condor]

the last 2 pictures are m+ trees

[livid bronze]

TY sir

[brisk crystal]

someone have my same problem? legendary effect don't reduce deathmark

[balmy condor]

dude

[kindred oriole]

...

[limber lion]

get it together man

[brisk crystal]

oh lol, didn't red it

[kindred oriole]

Did you try unequiping and reequiping it?

[balmy condor]

it works on outlaw

I know this to be true because it does more damage

[brisk crystal]

are you sure about the deathly shadows legendary? seems pretty weak

[balmy condor]

I am not

[drifting cloud]

[viscid spear]

It's prepatch, don't worry so much

Play Mage

[echo geyser]

@balmy condor stay safe, play mushroom game

[balmy condor]

we do a bit of crafting

[echo geyser]

[balmy condor]

I'm still a little depressed I didn't get the helm tier up

but what can you do

[echo geyser]

the only helm i know is zakum

[balmy condor]

my guildmate got me the BiS 3 piece set

basically this but thief version since it's an alt

and the thief really wants all skill cooldowns -2 sec in the potential line

1 line of it is huge, 2 lines is better

but it's a legendary only line

and I spent close to 2 bil and it didn't tier up past unique

so uh

rip

basically just means my thief isn't REALLY that playable right now

but because of winter update in a week and a half, I don't really have the resources to do anything about it

so it's gonna rot until maybe january

[echo geyser]

2bil

[balmy condor]

simulator said legendary in 600mil

[echo geyser]

[vapid sierra]

whats good st damage for smth around ilvl 300?

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/dragonball-vegeta-over9000-gif-3527622

[candid geyser]

Instead of simming just come to the dark side father and learn outlaw. With 0 minutes as outlaw I exceeded sin dps. With a few hours as outlaw I now laugh at sin dps.

[timid cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/ace-attorney-phoenix-wright-objection-capcom-gif-20965907

[candid geyser]

Just need to put on music with 250 beats per minute and sunglasses and smash keys while slamming monsters

[timid cloud]

Also be European, & it has to be hardstyle EDM.

[candid geyser]

Why sim when outlaw sims better.
🎣

[timid cloud]

[royal lantern]

why sim at all

dont listen to those machines

belive in the MAGIC of feels

[spice spire]

you have $10 and you buy two cokes for 10 minutes and burgers, now the first coke only last 2.5 minutes then you spend less to burgers and buy another coke, still $10. The difference transferred to burger difference not money wise

[abstract gulch]

do talents that say "weapon poison" refer ONLY to deadly poison/instant poison etc or to things like envenom and kings bane as well?

[oak sky]

deadly and instant

[abstract gulch]

like "increases weapon poison damage" etc

ty

[junior panther]

is sin worth playing rn for prepatch? sorry for redundant question

[next arch]

If you enjoy it then sure.

Im trying out feral right now, and feel like the payoff is better but idk

might just feel like it.

[balmy condor]

Depends on what worth means in this context

[junior panther]

well for raid mostly but im also trailing atm so i dont think i should lol but if the numbers arent bad compared to outlaw why not look into it

[next arch]

they are bad compared to outlaw afaik

prepatch specifically.

Tuning and what have you

[balmy condor]

Yeh so if you’re looking for dps

[junior panther]

okay thank you, i will look into it closer to xpac ty ty

[balmy condor]

#outlaw is that way

It’s like 50% ahead in prepatch

Or something stupid

[junior panther]

ok cool 8) ty!

[balmy condor]

Np

[timid cloud]

Less Sin players can only mean one thing...

Don't mind if I do.

[balmy condor]

Rank 2, purple

[timid cloud]

TRUE

[oak sky]

me af as fuck

[ebon notch]

rank 2 anduin

0 parse

[brazen zodiac]

[hollow river]

[slim path]

Am I right that the talent giving you big crit chance after leaving stealth is gone?

[thorn kindle]

proof that nobody cares about Assassination:
"While the Pre-Patch brings no new changes to the Outlaw Rogue itself, we instead get a full rework of the Talent System! This obviously has implications for the Class as a whole and Outlaw as a spec, and we will try to give a quick overview what this means for you before we take flight into the next WoW Expansion in November."

This is from the assassination page on Icy Veins 🙂

lol

[slim path]

If I only have 5 combo points, should I switch 2. and 3. steps?

[oak sky]

No master assassin is still there, its under improved garrote if you look on the right side of the assassination spec tree

[oak sky]

Wdym by that, like you have no marked for death to use slice early and also no deeper so its 5 total cp?

[balmy condor]

@marble hemlock typo check

[slim path]

I mean, if I use 1. Marked for Death , then 3. Slice and Dice and then 2. Garrote, I don't lose a CP.
But if I use 1. Marked for Death 2. Garrote => I lose a CP here, don't I?

[balmy condor]

1. Is marked for death -> slice before the pull

If you have it up from step 1 you don’t need to do step 3

[oak sky]

You wouldnt slice twice

Only need one slice for pretty much the whole fight

[balmy condor]

Game actually won’t let you either :P

Probably have to clean it up for 10.0 though

[slim path]

Oh I see, it confused me a little. Thanks!

And since Kingsbane cd is 60 sec, and 2 Shivs cd in 50 sec
Should I keep Shiv off cd for 10 sec so I could use both of them for Kingsbane?
Or do I just keep 1 for the last 8 seconds of Kingsbane, and use 2nd shiv on cd?

[balmy condor]

You keep both shivs for kingsbane

Kingsbane rotation is a very straight forward minute burst

Kingsbane every minute

Both shivs with it

Kingsbane in deathmark every other minute

[slim path]

Thank you Whispyr

[balmy condor]

Np

[brazen zodiac]

sup whisp u enjoying prepatch

[sullen axle]

Hey folks, I haven't played rogue since BfA (and even then, very casually). I seem to recall us not having Ambush as an ability back then, and using Garrote as the opener from stealth. But now I see that we have Ambush back.

1. Is my recollection correct, or am I just losing my mind?
2. If I am NOT losing my mind, and do we now use Ambush a our opener from stealth?

[green harbor]

i love how amplifying poison does a lot of damage by itself and then also buffs the shit out of envenom

[oak sky]

we do use garrote from stealth with improved garrote talented, but ambush is used when we get a proc from blindside

ambush would also be used if we talented subterfuge

but either way you want to garrote out of stealth with imp garrote because thats the whole point of the talent

[sullen axle]

Ah, I remember Subterfuge now. Was really confused by the "leveling rotation" in the wowhead guide having Ambush as the second step after using Garrote out of Stealth.

Makes sense. Thanks 🙂

[oak sky]

np

[balmy condor]

Leveling tree uses subterfuge which allows ambush after the first garrote

[green harbor]

pinned single target build feels very good

[balmy condor]

Pinned single target build is way too fast

:/

Unlucky

[green harbor]

yeah it did feel pretty fast for the spec

[balmy condor]

There’s a ton of energy talents on the tree

And like if you nerf them you have to take them all

But if they were original strength you would need to actively avoid some of them because you’re energy capped

It’s a yucky place to be in

Like you want them to be competitive, but you also don’t want to force them

[slim path]

That's the opener.
May I ask why we apply rupture before deathmark?
Is it just calculated that it's more effective to not reapply garrote & rupture on you first Deathmark?
Thus it means that we use first deathmark for lethal poisons only?

[balmy condor]

Deathmark duplicates bleeds on the target

If you would rupture after Deathmark

[north grove]

you wanna keep the empowered garrot on as long as possible

[balmy condor]

You would lose way too much time on kingsbane

And delay the empowered garrote

[slim path]

A-ha. I misunderstood the spell

[balmy condor]

Just super icky

[dense cedar]

Why did they even make Deathmark tho

[misty holly]

An outlaw rogue complained that their vanish didnt work in arena because of Vendetta.

Prompted an all hands on deck team meeting at blizzard to fix the problem in DF

[dense cedar]

My favourite part of Vendetta was making my raid group wait for me tho

[green harbor]

they got rid of most CDs that were just a simple damage increment

the only remaining one is avatar

[dense cedar]

oh? haven't checked too many other classes yet

warrior was the only one I had checked 💀

[green harbor]

yeah, i believe avatar wasn't changed because it technically wasn't either specs' main CD

[dense cedar]

Hated reading that terrible news in the pins, hope that doesn't make it to launch somehow

[balmy condor]

because vendetta is the most boring shit cd to ever exist

[dense cedar]

💢

[dense cedar]

The Amp Poison interaction with Deathmark is pretty nice tbh

[timid cloud]

Wdym

I loved my little point emote

Then when the daggers would come out of the sides & slap the target for me during it & give me energy, YUM!

[dense cedar]

Kinda weird that Exsang affects the duration of Deathmark but doesn't have DM whitelisted for its application requirement

I suppose its just idiot protection

[balmy condor]

Wdym doesn’t have DM whitelisted

[calm tangle]

The optimal opener on ST with the DTB build in pins?
Garrote-SnD-Garrote-Muti-Rupture-exsang-DM-SBS?
I haven't done much testing on Assa on beta yet

[scenic kelp]

Is assa in a good Place at 70 dmg wise? Or is Outlaw or sub much better at lvl 70? 😅

[cobalt hemlock]

outlaw better

[royal lantern]

lets just say, in the current state of tuning, there is no reason to ever play something that is NOT outlaw for rogue, its the best at everything we have avaible

ofc can change

[scenic kelp]

☹️

[honest vessel]

oh ya? well assassination has bleeds

[topaz gazelle]

if nothing changes its the feral life for me :/

[misty holly]

Dont worry about it too much. If we suck Realz will come through with the huge aura buffs.

[royal lantern]

if you actually think that the druid community can handle feral beeing better then balance for an raidtier without throwing a tantrum until its gets nerfed and balanced buffed

dunno man

[next edge]

true

[topaz gazelle]

better than having an RL breathing down my neck to play a 150 apm spec

[honest vessel]

are those the two most different dps specs on the same class

gotta be close

[oak sky]

i hope feral gets their tier man it actually looks pretty fun

[next edge]

If you dont mind what level are you playing on

I get that some people is too competitive but others need to realise that it doesnt matter what you play at certain levels of gameplay

like you could play assa without a single issue

[jade abyss]

Is sub even so "worse" o.O

[next edge]

It is not

[topaz gazelle]

Not high even that it should matter, high enough that perception matters

aka i expect a lower performing melee will simply be benched

[celest drift]

Open the pins, see exsangs builds, close the pins, cry

[honest vessel]

just outdamage that mediocre player taking ur spot

[hollow river]

don't think you'd really need to worry about that unless you have an outlaw player in your raid. rogue bringing a raid wide DR now should help with stuff like that a little

[subtle tundra]

hi

delete outlaw

[royal lantern]

he doesnt know

what meme athropic poison actually is

🙂

[hollow river]

[celest drift]

Be the RL, problem solved :4head:

[subtle tundra]

my raid leader only plays elemental shaman no matter what so he is the same as me

[royal lantern]

no

delete exsang

outlaw is ok in theory

[subtle tundra]

L take

[royal lantern]

legit take? i know man

[vernal adder]

Remove sub and sin

[plain onyx]

remove all specs and keep sin

[steel ridge]

remove exsang.

and give me DTB at 60

[sharp falcon]

feels bad hitting ignore on DMs, please understand I just can't

[strange python]

Assa state in mm +?🤡

[sharp falcon]

If you think there's a discussion that should happen about something, try to have it in some public space of your choosing, someone can get my attention about it

[snow hamlet]

agree

[subtle tundra]

Sorry some people can't respect other people's privacy and whatever else(I'm not good with words)

[hollow river]

[vernal adder]

People shouldnt dm you realz in the first place

[sharp falcon]

Been happening a lot lately and I can understand some nerves around overall tuning because prepatch is kind of all over the place and rogue specs are broadly in the bottom half... but there have been more Rogue DMs lately and I hate feeling like I'm being dismissive but it's not the right place

[subtle tundra]

If people want a conversation they can dm me so I can send them some words

[plain onyx]

Gimme a good name for an Undead sin that starts with " Ded " as in dead ❤️

[topaz gazelle]

Dedass

[sharp falcon]

lol

[hollow river]

i'm sure you know this and maybe don't want to resort to it, but might be a good idea to change settings so that random people can't message you from the communities

[vernal adder]

Dededd

[steel ridge]

Realz, do what you have to, to keep your sanity in this madhouse!

[sharp falcon]

If I must, but I'd rather not

[plain onyx]

Dedserious ;p

[subtle tundra]

Well if you want some good words, I'll admit I've been enjoying assa a lot in m+ on the beta, actually fun

[hollow river]

understandable, and i'd agree but there's just too many to leave it up to them to be respectful

[vernal adder]

Dedday

[hollow river]

it should 100% go through proper channels, like the forums, or even comment here

[steel ridge]

people are just so entitled man... imagine being so full of yourself that you need to DM your stupid opinion for prepatch

[hollow river]

you've been really great with feedback, i think most of us can tell you skim the channels often

[tacit oracle]

Id die irl if I saw a dedspec or dedxpac.

[vernal adder]

Skim off topic for real feedback /s

[plain onyx]

lmaoo in a good way or in a bad way 😂 ?

[raven knoll]

Tru. It feels really good.

[sharp falcon]

I kind of get it, I don't think it's really entitlement, just nerves around being in public view, a private conversation is 'safe'

[verbal tusk]

i really think the people who are super toxic about nerfs/buffs/my class is bad or else i'd be glad... are really the people who arent good enough for a 10 percent nerf to random obscure spell to matter

[tacit oracle]

Id actually just laugh a lot.

[verbal tusk]

seems like 90 percent of changes dont make a difference till you're pushing mythic 97.5 or rank 1 glad

[vernal adder]

Realz doing nightshift?

[sharp falcon]

no, sleeping soon and just doing some reading

[verbal tusk]

your 6k dps is still going to be 6k dps even after a 5 percent damage reduction to kings bane

[vernal adder]

[steel ridge]

are people actually scared that their class is going to be so far down the bottom that they need to engage you privately about buffing it?

[sharp falcon]

genuinely, I think yes

[steel ridge]

warcraft logs dps ranking really gets people scared it seems...

[deft flicker]

Someone’s always gonna be at the bottom

[subtle tundra]

Peole unfortunately care about prepatch

[deft flicker]

Just like someone’s gonna be at the top

[subtle tundra]

[raven knoll]

Someone is going to be at bottom ye but competing with tanks in DPS in M+ is not what ppl want

[sharp falcon]

I stopped short of pasting one of the most recent ones here, because although I think this is a better forum for a conversation to start around (and I don't want to be dismissive of their thoughts)... but if they messaged me directly because they were afraid people would talk down to them, I didn't want to put them in that position, even anonymously

[deft flicker]

But numbers aside the talent trees feel awesome

[sharp falcon]

Assassin spec and DH class trees are highest on my "want to iterate when we get the chance" list, but that's for later, not for today

[subtle tundra]

Glad you're professional cause I'd start the day with "this loser really did say this"

[sharp falcon]

it's functional for now, hopefully some fun to be had, etc

[steel ridge]

sin is pretty fun, numbers are just not there

[subtle tundra]

Depends who you compare to tbf

[sharp falcon]

well that's the thing I don't want to be dismissive, don't think there are any losers there, I just can't engage with the big DMs and it's been more frequent recently... not sure if it's nerves around tuning but I speculate that's at least part of it

[steel ridge]

i am playing kyrian sin for now to have a somewhat complete toolkit like in DF

and with a fixed amp poison and DTB its going to be alot better numerically while still being the same mechanically

[vernal adder]

Prepatch serious business

[steel ridge]

well prepatch is what people got right now, not everyone has played beta

not everyone sees the whole picture

[crisp cipher]

still dumb to look at prepatch numbers imo

just look at beta raid logs 4Head

[steel ridge]

actually i would love to look at some of those, but warcraftlogs has no easy way to access those right?

[raven knoll]

Thats actually a good idea. I didn't even think of that 😄 I play Venthyr but I got rid of covenant ability so I can get used to not having flagelation.

[steel ridge]

venthyr feels clunky to me and it does nothing to prepare you for DF

i looked at wcl and i am literally the only one playing kyrian xD

[verbal tusk]

i am too stupid to get into this min maxing stuff.. all I know is I'm enjoying playing a bleed em up.. run away and stealth, re apply bleeds and watch peoples health tick down. its almost trolly

[steel ridge]

just from that perspective alone you can see people care more about prepatch than they should

playing the best simming covenant even tho its probably a better idea to practice ER RC since alot of people never have.

[topaz gazelle]

well if you don't trust your ideas to withstand the scrutiny of a discord, you prolly shouldnt send em over eh

[vernal adder]

Never been venthyr here, idk what im doing

[oak sky]

all good ramlu

just freestyle

[steel ridge]

valid take

[oak sky]

these are the words I want to hear tbh, I fully agree with you that we have a functional tree but I think with a couple changes it could be actually omega god SSS tier

I'm sure DHs and to some extent sub feel the same way

[potent topaz]

Just brainstorming, maybe it could help IC a bit if it would also apply Deadly Poison to all affected targets like FoK

[marble hemlock]

Wait what

How

[solar tangle]

you just copy pasta ? 😦

[marble hemlock]

I hand wrote those intros

[solar tangle]

#realitycheck

[steel ridge]

mh not a big one, you would FoK alot anyway

[potent topaz]

Though, for a 10.1/10.2 re-evaluation of the spec tree I'd rather have IC not be a Capstone but more generally reachable talent and some completely new Capstone instead.

[potent topaz]

yep, just a little helper with initial DP dmg and poison ticking. not a biggie

[steel ridge]

IC doesnt have a damage problem, its more like "is the trade off worth it?"

since you sacrifice so much ST potential to gain that 8 Target massacre

[potent topaz]

It kind of does due to the nature of our aoe dmg profile

[oak sky]

I think it might feel a little better if we could get like

one st capstone or a few powerful st talents without losing any of our aoe talents

[marble hemlock]

That's kinda the same thing though

It's not like IC suddenly gives us insane AoE

[steel ridge]

yeah because our bleeds are noodles

[marble hemlock]

If the right-side would boost our AoE by a lot more, then the tradeoff would be worth considering. Right now it's just not

[steel ridge]

the scent buff was a step in that direction

but IC needs something like septic shock attached to it

[marble hemlock]

the capstones are fine

its the nodes leading up to it them are too weak

(and too few)

dont think theres another class with as few talents in t3, and even if they do, they dont have 3-pointers further limiting their choice

its been my #1 complaint for the assa tree since day1, and itll continue to be my main issue

[cobalt hemlock]

has there ever been a bigger true

[marble hemlock]

enhance only has 11 as well

but they can pick more of them

(ele has 16 t3 taletns, btw)

[oak sky]

we definitely have a few really cool and high value t3 things

but we dont have enough total talents

and the 3 pointers are effectively part of the capstone which makes it almost 4 point capstones

[marble hemlock]

but yeah, as it stands, i feel like the assa tree is trying too hard to be balanced in its own vacuum. so we're getting a bunch of changes that address individual talent rows or talents being much better than the rest.

but that leaves us in a spot once again where we're just 20-30% worse than other classes/specs

(ww got 18 t3 talents btw, with 16 of them being 1-pointers)

[deft flicker]

That can be solved by a 20% aura bonk, but whether that will happen or not is unknown

[royal lantern]

yep, the extreme "you fully commit into 1thing" tree assa has, also just means we are again 100%commited into 1specific thing, but are not even good at that thing

[marble hemlock]

the entire point of a new expansion is to reset aura values because it allows you to get a fresh start

if we start into it needing yet another 20% aura buff, how is that any different than SL start

[deft flicker]

Aura can be baked back into abilities

[marble hemlock]

you vs the guy she tells you not to worry about
http://puu.sh/JqWmO/e7d3f19b87.jpg
http://puu.sh/JqWmN/e4ef203cdb.jpg

[oak sky]

ww didnt get weapons of order and wdp is real low so i think they might not be taking it and they have a few feelsbad talents in the middle too

every tree has their kinks

hopefully they all get sorted out sooner rather than later

[royal lantern]

but 3pointers are the ONLY way you can not have kingsbane and DtB mixed man

no other solution possible

[oak sky]

i think its been recognized at this point that there are other solutions

(by realz)

[marble hemlock]

put a cap on KB. problem solved

or

let people have both

whats the big deal

[oak sky]

i can understand not wanting to force 2 talents to always be taken together

[royal lantern]

i mean, i was somewhat doomer mode since day1 with the rogue/assa tree so

[marble hemlock]

but youre not

[royal lantern]

im allready at the acceptance stage

[marble hemlock]

kingsbane is a pure ST ability

[sturdy merlin]

KB + DTB would be nasty

[royal lantern]

grief is over

[marble hemlock]

youd play dtb+kb for st

dtb+ic or kb+ic for aoe

probably dtb+ic

could even play a mix of the two with kb+ic

[oak sky]

that usually forces them to be tuned around having both and then they would be weaker on their own

[marble hemlock]

why

ravenous frenzy+incarn made boomkin insane. couldnt really play one without the other at that point. didnt stop them from letting it go live, and stay live like that, for half a year

and this is not ravenous frenzy levels of broken. not even close.

[royal lantern]

^i understand what realz means in theory with his "only 1capstone" choice, cus he doesnt want a "mandatory" one

but other classes/specs have SO MUCH STRONGER stuff they can mix

but for some reason DtB+KB would be gamebreaking?

[oak sky]

other specs have very different capstone models overall too actually

some of them focus on buffing capstone level talents and stuff instead

[marble hemlock]

theres other specs that only play 1 capstone, because the talents leading up to them arent crap

and worth picking multiple of them

[royal lantern]

dashing as a 3pointer is borderline insulting

[marble hemlock]

but we have so few talents in the first place, that limiting capstones via forcing high talent point investment is the only way to do so

[oak sky]

the other thing is the whole non mandatory capstone thing can also be solved by having more capstones/strong capstone talents

[royal lantern]

is there a talent with a lower "dmg gain per point" in the game lol?

[oak sky]

like i could see blindside being viewed as a pseudo capstone in the future if we get opened up a little more

or sbs/sepsis

like we trade those against both kingsbane and dtb or whatever we were to end up with

but tbh its still so shocking when i look at us getting zoldyck and dashing as 3 pointers (both are effects which i like and want to be around) and then moonkins get pulsar as a 1 pointer

[marble hemlock]

theres only 4 specs in the game that only have 3capstones and 3 t9 talents

theres also 2 other specs that have 13 talents in t9+t10

the problem is we have so few taletns in t3, that if we dont artificially limit choice by making them cost many talent points, we'd just pick them all. ofc thats not good

[oak sky]

ye

[marble hemlock]

(further exacerbated by being the only class with 4-row t2, meaning we cant even path to all 3 ends of the tree anyway)

[dense herald]

Seli are you team KB

[marble hemlock]

but yeah, that ship has sailed. i just fear that those "unique" design decisions will impact and limit our spec too much over the entire expac

[marble hemlock]

wdym?

[oak sky]

I think we'll get tree changes sometime during the expac

I'm optimistic

[dense herald]

As in do you enjoy the feel/playstyle of KB and hope it ends up being strong? In comparison to DTB anyways

[marble hemlock]

i doubt theyll be as comprehensive as what happened during beta with shifting around nodes or adding connections etc.

kb is boring

[oak sky]

I don't know I think we might be surprised

[dense herald]

Do you find DTB fun?

[marble hemlock]

no

the only interactive ability is IC

dtb/kb dont affect your rotation

not in meaningful ways anyway

"hold shiv for last 8 seconds" isnt exactly an exciting rotational change

beyond that, it just asks you to maintain a high envenom uptime. you already wanna do that.

[raven knoll]

Does mastery affect KB?

[marble hemlock]

im on team "assa no longer has a niche/damage profile that isnt being done better by either outlaw or sub, or both"

thats a tuning thing. im assuming we'll be fine. but at this point i dont see a path to get there that isnt a pretty significant aura buff. which makes me sad

[oak sky]

Im fine with kb i guess but i definitely think theres more we could get from the tree

Theres some room for more cool talents in the capstone level, and less exsang in the middle

[royal lantern]

imo, it also doesnt really help that outlaw is the only rogue spec that actually gets new/refined stuff

the only new thing assa has, is IC, everything else is just "eh, you do the same but with slightly more dmg"

[faint harness]

deathmark

i guess its not new

:))

[faint harness]

in what way is this different for outlaw now? apart from ambush

KiR just gives you more bones buffs, dreadblades already existed

fth is something they basically already play

GSW has been in the game for 5-6 years

[potent topaz]

Yep, if it were up to me, Exsang would be replaced with IC to have it in more builds available and find something other cool for our aoe capstone

[royal lantern]

thats why i said new/refined, because while outlaw didnt get new stuff, it got more interactions overall

assa is litearlly just "do excatly the same, but it does slightly more dmg now" on more or less all talents rn

[faint harness]

outlaw is an abomination of a spec imo, but i'm probably alone with that opinion. The complete removal of resource gameplay and just the continuation of spamming every shit you have on cd is just so uninteresting to me

[crisp cipher]

outlaw is fury 2.0 lmao

[royal lantern]

i mean, yeha

[faint harness]

fury probably has more interesting gameplay

[royal lantern]

restless blades is an mistake

[faint harness]

dreadblades is garbage longterm

just destroys any cp gameplay

[royal lantern]

and dreadblades beeing stronger then most capstones is also just plain stupid

[faint harness]

i mean that side of dreadblades and fth :))

quite strong

lmao

[royal lantern]

trust me push, i think the same, DF Outlaw is stupid af

[faint harness]

and that side just completely deletes CP gameplay

if ur not in finisher spam dreadblades mode, you have 2x opportunity lined up that fills ur cps and oh look my dreadblades is back

[royal lantern]

it goes WAY to hard into "lmao i reduce cd all the time without end xddd"

[faint harness]

and oh my AR on 30 sec cd fills my cps too

[faint harness]

yes it was fun for like

2 days of dummy gameplay

reminds me of akaari sub in SL beta, also garbage gameplay

[royal lantern]

and now imagine how peolple will react when outlaw will do low dmg with that gameplay 🙂

and that day will come

[faint harness]

ye i mean ppl only look at dmg sadly

and as usual its the actual outlaw mains that gets hit

fotm rerollers just leave for the next big thing

[royal lantern]

why do they even roll

get a Warlock/mage/balance druid to max lvl

and you always have a fotm spec avaible lol

[faint harness]

well ye

but some ppl are melee mains

[fallen arch]

As rogue as well

[faint harness]

and melee specs are typically volatile

[fallen arch]

There’s always a rogue spec viable

At least for m+

[faint harness]

viable sure

[royal lantern]

you can say WW monk

[fallen arch]

Just too many tools

[royal lantern]

ww monk legit only knows "broken af" or "borderline ussules"

no in-bettwen

[faint harness]

but i think outlaw players atm are like the fire mages that joined that spec in 8.3

and never left

[faint harness]

ye its a weird spec

[royal lantern]

outlaw allready had those people from 8.1 mate

[uncut echo]

Idm outlaw

But the rsi is just turboaids

[royal lantern]

joined during reaping, never left

[faint harness]

ye but you can tell that this beta cycle has added even more

and s4 strength

[uncut echo]

Fotm andies

[faint harness]

yuh

• the actually big rogue streamers all enjoy outlaw

so

funnels ppl into the spec

[royal lantern]

what RACE should i play for dps??????

[uncut echo]

Belf supremacy

Mog > dps

[faint harness]

my rogue is actually tauren now, beefgang represent

[uncut echo]

Beefnoir

[faint harness]

[uncut echo]

Rogue looks downbad fr

Sub is cheek city

Sin is dead

Outlaw is fucking maddening

[royal lantern]

again: how much of that is dmg?

[uncut echo]

If they wanted dam

They'd have gone demo lock

[faint harness]

prob a part of it

[uncut echo]

Rogue is the only class that offers as much util as it does

[royal lantern]

almost everyone falls into the "high dmg=fun" trap

[faint harness]

some just want to be part of the community

[uncut echo]

High dam makes classes tolerable

[crisp cipher]

you know what's fun

[royal lantern]

the INSANE rogue utility of "checks notes" shroud!

[crisp cipher]

being invited to pugs

[vernal adder]

Other classes bearly have stealth cant reroll

[uncut echo]

Kidney, gouge, cheap shot

It's stop city

Tf you mean

Blind

Sap

[faint harness]

meanwhile mages have 2 aoe stops on less than 1 min cd

[royal lantern]

stuns and incap(outlaw wont skill gouge in df btw)

[uncut echo]

Fake news

I will

:)

[royal lantern]

I N S A N E U T I L I T Y !!!!

[oak sky]

Imo shorter dreadblades would be way more fun

[vernal adder]

I wont talent any utility, fuck em

[oak sky]

Like if you got like 3 finishers instead of like 6

[faint harness]

shit spell, i'll die on that hill

[uncut echo]

It's a fucking far cry better than most classes

[faint harness]

only reason why ppl like it is cus dispatch actually does dmg

[uncut echo]

That is v good utility

[oak sky]

So like my thought process is

Outlaw is based entirely around cdr

[vernal adder]

Yes

[oak sky]

So the idea of dreadblades is decent, because it basically juices your cdr for a short period

[faint harness]

cdr gameplay is bad design, change my mind

[oak sky]

Except its not a short period

[royal lantern]

cant, youre right

[vernal adder]

Yes

[royal lantern]

making all cds meaningless because you are balanced around high uptime is PEAK DESING

[oak sky]

I think high uptime dradblades is like the most anti fun thing ever

Because it breaks everything

[faint harness]

ye its not very appealing

[uncut echo]

It's not gonna stay

[faint harness]

too late to change now

[oak sky]

But like if its like 3-4 finishers every 2mins or so then its like a cool little cdr boost

At least imo

[uncut echo]

That does fuck all

[royal lantern]

#outlaw doesnt understand that lmao, the ammount of "why did RTB get nerfed?????" questions a couple weeks ago was mindblowing

yes, when you have near constant 4-5 buffs, they are balanced WAY lower you dumbshit lmao

[faint harness]

math is hard

[uncut echo]

I prefer the buffs being worse

[faint harness]

ye its just less rng

[uncut echo]

Reroll was cringe as fuck

^

[oak sky]

I actually hate how many people thought 100% dreadblades was sick though

[uncut echo]

1 2 1 2 1 2

Uwu

[willow rapids]

I dunno, I actually like that to me they feel different enough in gameplay, don't get all the hate between specs

[oak sky]

Actual dopamine darryls

[faint harness]

cus we play a pure dps class

if outlaw is the best i have to play that garbage

and i dont want to

[uncut echo]

I mean it's big madge that outlaw is bis rn

[oak sky]

I agree with you for sure, I think each one brings different design spacr

[uncut echo]

Cuz sub and sin are unplayable

[faint harness]

i mean sub is not unplayable

sin has some design issues with its aoe talents and shit tho imo

[oak sky]

But some people don't understand what they're asking for and its super concerning

[uncut echo]

It wouldnt be a problem if people could go sub like demo locks could go destro

But sin's aoe is dead

[willow rapids]

I am talking gameplay options. I do agree with them needing to be closer together

[oak sky]

Sin is playing exsang, next

[faint harness]

ye i mean just looking at the potential best build for sin is as well

remove exsang

not a fun button

especially not when its just used for energy

[oak sky]

I dont mind dot reduction in principle

[vernal adder]

How is the dmg compared to rest though

[oak sky]

But exsang is so bad lol

[vernal adder]

Classes

[faint harness]

no clue

ppl are simming with different gear

in every class

highest mage sim i have seen is 58k

but i have no idea what gear that is

[vernal adder]

Dont wanna be top dmg in that case

Nerf bat

[uncut echo]

Im going back mage

[faint harness]

rogue is like 60k-64k

with current sims

but ye it doesnt say anything

[uncut echo]

Whuch is v respectable

[oak sky]

But yeah anyways i think it would be cool if we got a new and differently executed dot reduction thing if exsang goes away

[vernal adder]

I will happily hide in high middle

[faint harness]

yea

[oak sky]

Just like either a proc or some sort of passive

[faint harness]

idm if all 3 rogue specs are playable and we're mid

i dont really need to be top 3 class

[oak sky]

As long as we have exsang i would prefer sin being lower than the other 2 tbh

Because i cant justify avoiding it if its actually good

[faint harness]

if ur mid overall, chances are you can still be 1 on details if you play good in an avg guild

[oak sky]

Not easy being cracked

[uncut echo]

64k sims are on the higher end

[faint harness]

based on what tho

is there a sim gear meta?

[uncut echo]

AhriSims

[faint harness]

we use 408 gear

flat

[uncut echo]

And an overdose on copium

[faint harness]

crafted items

weapon enchants

[vernal adder]

Some gems

[faint harness]

ye our sims have quite good gear

so it might seem high

but ye sub/outlaw seems similar in ST atm