assassination

[bleak sun]

Oh you need to upgrade it

[gusty mirage]

Yes

[normal mist]

If there any place that says what items assa rogues should get from the coins? The 3 items? (Sorry for lack of knowledge, been away for this entire season)

[limber lion]

Well first thing you would look at

is the pins

[normal mist]

Nvm found it

XD

[limber lion]

and in the pins you can see that all the season 4 stuff is in the #assassination-faq

[normal mist]

I almost wrote down "nvm" in time but you beat me to it :c

[limber lion]

[normal mist]

Another question then, why we going double eon now?

[limber lion]

but yeh always check pins/faq first

[limber lion]

We always have

We did in SOD as well when it was relevant content.

[normal mist]

Really?
I got eon super late actually, maybe that's why I didn't even think much about it, and thought that one should be enough OH. My bad

(only ever got one really)

[chrome peak]

So how much of a hassle to use is Scars (trinket)?

[plain onyx]

Out of /10 ? how good is assa in m+ ? 😔 it's the only spec i like to play tbh

[vestal wren]

you stack it up and line the final rune up with your last cooldowns in the fight, so not that complicated

[fallow canopy]

Unless you are doing a sweaty key it doesn't really matter, specially if as you said its the only spec you like

[misty holly]

Damage-wise the spec is pretty bad. You still have a lot of control being a rogue, but less than outlaw or sub does. People will wonder why you aren't just playing Outlaw instead.

But it's totally possible to push into low 20's at least.

Just expect to get crushed by most classes on the dps meters.

I even was beat by a blood DK in lower kara once, that was pretty embarrassing 🤡

[subtle tundra]

lower kara

the nightmare of rogue

[pseudo hamlet]

Why?

[subtle tundra]

cause rogue in general has low aoe

and its biggest aoe dungeon

[pseudo hamlet]

My Lower Kara +20 yesterday:

Wasn't THAT bad tbh.

[subtle tundra]

it is bad

LOL

19.5k in lower is very low

GET IT??!?!?

[pseudo hamlet]

😦

[bleak sky]

do you need help varas?

are you alright in the head

how has wow been treating you

[subtle tundra]

yes!

i was holding cds on kt!

i be getting fat loot tho

all today

and im killing sylvanas soon

[timid cloud]

I wish I could say the same.

[gusty mirage]

fun boss

best boss ever made

I hope whoever designed that boss got fired

[subtle tundra]

i got this aswell

LOL

[ebon notch]

wait why you holding cds

@subtle tundra

should be able to send on pull and get back for downstairs no?

thats what i did at least

or are you guys not holding dps at all

[gusty mirage]

because he's not all 20 people in the raid

and sometimes people fuck up and you need to hold DPS because you're not skipping tank adds

why is this confusing

or you hold so people have CDs up for the next part of the fight

[ebon notch]

at no point did i say i was confused?

i was asking him for clarification

[gusty mirage]

You implied it by asking for clarification

[oak sky]

Its kt

But anyways even my guild was pushing p1 in like 30s

[subtle tundra]

bcs i'd rather not do any dps than have a chance of wiping cause we pushed too fast

it happened last time we did sod, now we have better gear

probably not getting it

[timid cloud]

I live for having to have the worst possible opener in the history of the game.

On KT. Just slow as a slug, doing nothing. It’s what leveling as a Rogue feels like.

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[misty holly]

19.5k is super good for sin rogue, imo. What I tend to see in a group though is the blood DK did 21k, the survival hunter did 29k, and the ele shaman did 24k.

So even a good performance like that feels meh

[subtle tundra]

maybe for last patch

for a heavy aoe dungeon its not super good

[brazen zodiac]

sup varas

nice loot

[subtle tundra]

Ty I'm a happy boy

Now sleep

[spice spire]

Nini varas

[pseudo hamlet]

depends on the pulls tbh

should've tried necro with haste stack

[normal mist]

I re-sub yesterday after a while and went straight to fated normal SOD and goddamn dps numbers are big right now

[limber lion]

I don't think they're that high, but that's coming from someone who started playing actively in Legion 7.3 where people were doing 2+ mil dps

[timid cloud]

Yeah, true. Glad they squished it, I’d hate to imagine the numbers we’d have to do now. Math wise, it’s a disaster for me personally….

[normal mist]

I meant high as in compared to what I was seeing on my HC jailer raid kills in the patch before.
I've seen all sorts of dps since wotlk when I started and right now I believe we are in a good spot numbers wise

[sick aspen]

is there a specific reason to go 3x potency for venth? like if dauntless sims higher in the gear we have is there a reason not to?

[subtle tundra]

the moment you hit a 2nd target for a bit, 3rd potency becomes better

so, unless you care about 50 dps on PURE st just stick to 3 potency and dont think about it

[sick aspen]

yup, that makes sense, wasn't considering having to swap

[full swallow]

Yo guys, new to assa rogue and wonder if there is any nice WA to keep track of bleeds and such on a target?

[spice spire]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[misty holly]

I use SliceCommander for that. But a weak aura to do the same thing would be nice. Having mods that you rely on break on patch day really sucks.

[spice spire]

There’s also some nice plater profiles for multi target

[gusty mirage]

[full swallow]

Thanks

[ebon notch]

is this your dog

[spice spire]

Yes

[floral shoal]

Dinars: raiding only heroic I still buy Edge of Night #1 -> Edge of Night #2 -> Scars of Fraternal Strife as the faq mentions? Is there an easy to put everything the vendors offer into simc?

[gusty mirage]

There’s an option in droptimizer on raidbots for the vendor

But you’ll probably still go double eon + a trinket

[ebon notch]

cute

[spice spire]

Just like u on god

[ebon notch]

[normal mist]

I have a question about scars that I didn't really see answered on FAQ so either I'm blind or stupid if this is there: how do we use scars? I have a normal HC one, that now sims better for me with pantheon trinket than 272 phial but I have no clue how to use it properly

"pop 5 and final buff when 30 secs remain to end the fight" yes but sometimes I notice the other 4 buffs disappearing during the fight.

[spice spire]

!scars

[prisma monolith]

Scars of Fraternal Strife usage:
Stack it up to rune 4. Activate the 5th rune close to the end of the fight, if you can line it up with the last use of your major cooldown.
Note: Runes have negative side effects that can also take you out of stealth.

[normal mist]

Thanks, but is it normal for buffs to disappear during a fight or are we supposed to keep activating the trinket up to 4 buffs during the fight? (Sorry for lack of knowledge, legit never used the trinket before)

[gusty mirage]

you'd ideally have 1 stack going into the fight

1 stack stays if you prepull use it

and then you'd stack it to 4

[normal mist]

And when 4stacks, do they tend to run out of time or they remain there until I pop the final buff?

(I was trying to use the trinket pulling with 4 buffs yesterday xD)

[gusty mirage]

they're there forever until you use it a 5th time

so you can stack it to 4 asap

and then just sit on it

only the final rune has a duration cause it kerplodes

[normal mist]

Thanks oxi.
Why did this trinket became relevant again btw?

[gusty mirage]

they giga buffed it by 25%

[normal mist]

The 5th rune or all the runes?

[gusty mirage]

all of them afaik

[normal mist]

Oh damn

[gusty mirage]

they did that for a lot of raid trinkets

https://www.wowhead.com/news/season-4-trinket-and-item-tuning-changes-gavel-unchanged-many-raid-trinkets-328071 it was this hotfix

Scars of Fraternal Strife secondary stats granted by each rune increased by 25%, and Final Rune's explosion damage increased by 25%.

[strange python]

How long does it last before dropping while out of combat

[gusty mirage]

the stack? the stack is perma

when you enter into boss combat it'll keep 1 stack

if you have more than 1 stack

it'll reset down to 1

[strange python]

Got it

[gusty mirage]

I wish the trinket was still bad

because I hate items with negative affects

but oh well

[thorn fjord]

Did you get beta access oxi?

[normal mist]

Another question oxi, but this might not be the right channel for it but, nontheless, what happened to outlaw to now dominate?

[vestal wren]

outlaw got buffed multiple times

this is why it became in late 9.2.5 dominant, it just extends to season 4

[gusty mirage]

ye but I haven't really bothered. I logged in saw all the cool stuff was still tagged with "NYI" and logged off

[vestal wren]

dragon flying is cool oxi, you should try it

[gusty mirage]

what fuu said, giga buffs that just stacked on top of each other kind of like what happened with assassination in 9.0.5

[vestal wren]

but also, you will have it for the entirety of df, so depends how much you want to spoil yourself

[gusty mirage]

I logged on and tried sorting my action bars

got frustrated and logged off

new UI is cool though

unfortunate I'd still have to use an action bar addon, 3 stacked on top of each other in the middle isn't exactly aesthetically pleasing to me

[vestal wren]

I think the new ui needs a lot of refinement

[gusty mirage]

yeah

[vestal wren]

the biggest qol change for me is the combined bag

[gusty mirage]

it's definitely a good step in the right direction

I'm a big fan of the new minimap and that we can p much hide/move anything we want now

[normal mist]

Can we see the changes anywhere so I can have a general idea of what actually changed, is it in any pins?

[gusty mirage]

idk if its in the pins over there, but it was spread out over the course of like 2 months of gradual buffs

the biggest one that set it over the top was the latest

Outlaw
Between the Eyes damage increased by 20%. This change does not apply to PvP.

Pistol Shot damage increased by 20%. This change does not apply to PvP.

Sinister Strike damage increased by 20%. This change does not apply to PvP.

Blade Flurry damage increased to 60% of single target damage (was 50%). This change 
does not apply to PvP.```

[vestal wren]

^ the important part of the change was that it was not a simple aura buff

what did mean it looked far less potent initially

but due to the nature of things, buffing individual spells means you can re-evaluate other things

and changing legendary items and small adjustments to gameplay did make outlaw come out ahead

so, in a sense the buff was a not logical

because why would you as a dev team want to impact balance to this degree, when you could just aura buff things and have complete control on the outcome

[subtle tundra]

so you can buff fan of knives by 30% and feel good that you did "tuning"

🙂

[normal mist]

I might give it a try soon, atleast to see how bad or better I am at it and how easily I can pull numbers in both specs.
And since all 3 specs want atleast 1 eon

[gusty mirage]

THINK OF THE IMPACT

[normal mist]

The first coin is certain to be one

[gusty mirage]

we use it on 3 TARGETS INSTEAD OF 4 AS A BUILDER

POG

[vestal wren]

or you can buff backstab (like for subtlety in sanctum)

i think the balancing approach often goes over my head, because it seems not logical

[spice spire]

Or you can give assassination a 51% aura buff

[subtle tundra]

oops

[spice spire]

Wait

[subtle tundra]

and you barely even fucking use fok when you play necro

[gusty mirage]

[normal mist]

You are indeed pretty

[subtle tundra]

wonderful buff!!

fok is poggggging

[gusty mirage]

where ping

[subtle tundra]

i said something bad and i deleted

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

Sbs machine gun gameplay

[gusty mirage]

is this one of those moments where you just overuse an emote over and over again?

[spice spire]

Yes

[gusty mirage]

gotcha

[spice spire]

It’s that or George

[gusty mirage]

at least use the superior giggle

[spice spire]

Sorry king

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

[vestal wren]

don't worry, fok does seem to do quite good damage on beta

[subtle tundra]

[vestal wren]

so your got heard

[subtle tundra]

thats cause they forgot they buffed it

[gusty mirage]

blizzard would never have an oversight

calculated

[viscid spear]

"Working as intended"

[misty holly]

This makes me wonder if Blizzard will ever make a rogue spec that loads more of its damage on the builders rather than finishing moves. Since Vanilla when Backstab and autoattack were your highest damage they have slowly shifted more and more damage to finishers.

how bad would it be for one of the specs to move back a bit more towards that.

[vestal wren]

I think new xpacs are typically the point bigger shakeups can appear

dragonflight in a sense allows them to go back to the drawing board for everything, and design in the direction they want

how successful this is rly depends on the dev team and how much time they can invest to do that

time is always the biggest issue in design, and limits how much can change

you see it with the subtlety DF tree, there is little to nothing on old concepts that return and only a small amount of new things

what to me just means that the design space was not used efficiently or explored enough

outlaw/assassination have more impactful changes compared

[misty holly]

It seems like maybe Outlaw Ambush build, and all the Sin talents that buff mutilate and poison.

Maybe there was an attempt

I havent looked at the sub tree much yet. Its been too long since I played it to make sense of the changes

[vestal wren]

there is little gameplay changing options in the sub tree

what isn't a bad thing, but subtlety might play very similar to how it played in early/mid sl

what is surprising given how big of a change talent trees are

but i think there are also a lot of not known variables for the trees, e.g. not everyone likes that shadow dance is a much more core aspect of gameplay on all 3 specs now

[storm onyx]

Original Mutilate was stronger and envenom weaker even, caused chronical complaints on 'How dare a generator be stronger than a finisher' etc...

[plain onyx]

referring to venth covenant, still theotar for m+ and nadjia for ST ?

[spice spire]

Yes

[oak sky]

2nd dagger haver

[pseudo hamlet]

gz!

[brazen zodiac]

congrats

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

Im still stuck with 291 trinkets and a 272 aa ring

You dont have to be too angy

[gusty mirage]

buddy

I have a 291 chest

and 291/298 trinkets

I took 2 sockets

but I socketed something spicy so I'm content

[oak sky]

Dw i took sockets 2w ago

[gusty mirage]

I also took 2 sockets 2 weeks ago

[oak sky]

Bruh you have double 304 rings

[gusty mirage]

and sockted my 298 mechagon rings

then I got back to back 304s

[spice spire]

Back to back weeks dog

Same with @ember mural

[oak sky]

I saw a 304 zap last week

[spice spire]

Like

[gusty mirage]

I was low key hoping for trash

so I could socket them

[oak sky]

I dont even have 298 for the rings

[spice spire]

You know the mental warfare these mfs placing on me?

[gusty mirage]

mfer

I told you

invite me

and I'll funnel

[spice spire]

I have 298 zap and 298 3 abilities

Ik papi.
Some keys are too cursed

[oak sky]

I would just have to spam 2s

But fuck that

[gusty mirage]

nah

[oak sky]

Its season 4 i am having fun!

[gusty mirage]

you speed run 15s

they're easy as fuck

workshop is free as fuck esp now that we can shroud last pack

[oak sky]

Yeah theyre easy

[gusty mirage]

you do 17s-18s

2-3 chest it

bonus loot

more chances

[spice spire]

Ye

[oak sky]

It takes a while to get invited

Im only 2.1

[gusty mirage]

dog

get the key

[spice spire]

I’m 52 mechagon deep

[gusty mirage]

and I'll find the group

[oak sky]

[spice spire]

It doesn’t for me.
And im 2152 too papi

I haven’t pushed at all

[oak sky]

I didnt check what my 20 is

[brazen zodiac]

operation get mecha rings for the boys

[oak sky]

I havent even done a tyran lower yet

[brazen zodiac]

is in GO

[spice spire]

I get invited to whatever - legit 0 issues ever

[gusty mirage]

also invite @brazen zodiac

[spice spire]

Brother

[gusty mirage]

if you need a ring

that's your go-to

100% success rate on ring acquisition

[spice spire]

I did a lower Kara 15 carry last night, and that was cursed

[oak sky]

My key was a 17 lower

But i just didnt do keys

[ember mural]

[brazen zodiac]

any pog vaults peeps?

agreon with that fat 311 pog

[cobalt hemlock]

your scars reset as you engage a boss?

[gusty mirage]

resets to 1 stack

[cobalt hemlock]

cool thank you

[fallow canopy]

Does a 304 EoC count?

[spice spire]

Pog enough

[brazen zodiac]

does it sim higher

[fallow canopy]

around a 500 dps gain

[brazen zodiac]

poh

pog

[runic moon]

hello everybody, im new to the spec and im really strugling to have a decent dps even with 4-set

and i really dont understand how openers work

can someone simplify please?

[vast loom]

study this and attmept it on target dummies

its as simple as you can get you just do the exact same buttons in the same order for the most part, if you are new to the spec, focus on maintaining your DoTs and SnD damn near 100% of the time and dont over cap energy or combo points.

for more help its better if you post a log so we can point out exact mistakes]

[runic moon]

marked for death goes after rupture?

[night delta]

yes, bottom row is things not on the GCD

at least on the first illustration

[runic moon]

which talents do i use?

i already have 4 set

[spice spire]

These seem like #assassination-faq questions

Not to cop out, But it has a lot of answers to basic questions there 🙂

[runic moon]

already read it

pretty much coping anything from there

already using nadja, and m+ talents

[spice spire]

Yeah it has talents and the whole nine there

[night delta]

then the talents are at the very top of the channel history in there

[subtle tundra]

in what content

[runic moon]

average 7k dps on M+ and raids

[subtle tundra]

you should log

[runic moon]

doing only 4kk damage

[subtle tundra]

FOUR MILLION DAMAGE??!?!??!?!?!

[runic moon]

on raid bosses etc

[subtle tundra]

saying how much damage you did means nothing

dps does

[runic moon]

yep, but when i compare with someone doing 15kk, it says a lot no?

[timid cloud]

No.

[subtle tundra]

if you do 4 million damage in 3 mins thats 22k dps, but in 4 min thats 16.6k

[timid cloud]

It’s like saying my car is fast & so is Vara’s but they’re two different types of fast.

[runic moon]

like i said, i average 7k dps

[subtle tundra]

also dont look at dps overall in a raid

[timid cloud]

We need to see more information.

[subtle tundra]

you probably are doing that

[timid cloud]

Telling us that gives us no information.

If you have a character link, or Warcraft logs, people can help you.

[runic moon]

how do i do that?

[subtle tundra]

learn to log your fights so people can actually see what youre doing

[timid cloud]

What is your characters name?

[subtle tundra]

maybe you already have public logs from randoms

[spice spire]

Logs show what you do and what exactly may be the issue.
So if you’ve logged raid, it does help quite a bit.
No judgement here

[runic moon]

Yeats

[timid cloud]

With your server.

[runic moon]

azralon

[runic moon]

dont worry ❤️

[spice spire]

I’m driving home rn, I can check while cooking dinner if it’s not already done

[timid cloud]

Unfortunately, he doesn't have any logs.

For any of the content.

We do have M+ logs. slight issue, they're just leaderboard ones, can't open them up to dive.

[night delta]

Yeats, do you get your information about your dps firsthand (your own dps meter add-on), or second-hand (someone told you about your dps) ?

[subtle tundra]

i didnt see any m+ logs

[timid cloud]

Yeah, they're just leaderboard ones.

The ones that say he did them, not actual log logs.

[runic moon]

i have a friend that plays for a long time and he told me it was low

[night delta]

okay so we can assume 7k dps is actual, encounter dps

we can work from here

[runic moon]

yes

[subtle tundra]

except we cant really work anything out cause he didnt say anything about the encounter

[limber lion]

Yeh, not really

[night delta]

I mean, he did say average

[limber lion]

There's different types of encounters with different affixes, doing 7k dps means literally nothing without context.

I can do 26k dps on Soulrender and then do Painsmith after and only do 15k

Doing "7k dps average in m+ and raid" says literally nothing.

[night delta]

most likely over several different encounters, including ones with "standard" damage profiles

[timid cloud]

Also kill times, & padding, it's all subjective

[runic moon]

ill make a +12 here and when it finishes i can send printscreens from the dps meter, if that helps

[timid cloud]

It won't.

You need to have logged runs, where they record the data & show everything that has happened in your key / raid per run.

https://articles.warcraftlogs.com/help/getting-started

[runic moon]

ok, thanks. ill come back when i have the logs

thanks everybody

[minor gate]

Hi guys
Just asking about info on trinkets, I know the faq says scars but what would be best to pair with it

Also is it worth having 2 edge of nights if they’re only heroic

[gusty mirage]

mythic ilvl dagger > double eon

[minor gate]

Heroic eon off hand?

[balmy condor]

EoN is always better than an equal level dagger, if the EoN is one difficulty worse, you would only equip EoN in offhand

[minor gate]

👍

[hexed narwhal]

morning, I have been playing Outlaw for the past month since returningn and really want to dip my toes into assanation as i miss it too much. My question is, should i use my second dinar on a second 285 Eon or would it be better to go for one of the trinkes and hope of r am+ dagger to drop (need to change loot spec, forgotten to do that). Also let it be said i will probably go between the spec rest of s4 to play around.
heres the current state of gear: https://raider.io/characters/eu/ravencrest/Mandelmælk
I will not do any raiding so only have dinar + m+ gear.

[balmy condor]

whats your second dagger looking like

[hexed narwhal]

have none so far, was thinkin gdoing double Eon

[balmy condor]

then you have to go double eon

can't use a fist weapon on sin my guy

[hexed narwhal]

yeah i know cant use fist. was more if it was worth getting second Eon or if i should go for a trinket with dinar and wait for dagger to drop by chaning loot spec

🙂

[balmy condor]

nah

m+ trinkets are really good

[hexed narwhal]

cool, thanks

[spiral pasture]

Assa fun in beta?

[balmy condor]

when the abilities work yeah

fun is subjective though

you might not find it fun

if you're an 8.3 hyper-speed assassination gamer

probably not fun

[oak sky]

from what i can tell the base is really fundamental sin stuff, slower outside cds, fast inside them, single target focused, multi dotting in aoe

very pog

[spiral pasture]

As long as st is pog im happy, think outlaw shold outshine sin on aoe with increased target cap etc. Ofc tuning will decide

[jovial spear]

Am I an idiot, or is a 304 MH Dagger + 298 EON in OH better than 2x 298 EON ?
Wont be able to get 311 EON this time around

I play as Sub in M+, worth getting a second 298 as they scale better with EON?

[oak sky]

yeah

[balmy condor]

for single target, 304 MH is pretty much equal to 298 EoN on average, obviously some people might be a little worse or a little better but shouldn't make a difference.

[jovial spear]

Okey, thanks 🙂 Lucked out in Vault, so can save a Dinar for something else then

[balmy condor]

sub m+ is a similar thing I think

let me check

yeah, for sub you def want double eon

so you're correct on both accounts

[jovial spear]

Greath, thanks a lot 🙂

[pastel tangle]

i'm the same boat, got a EON in vault at 285 and a 304 apex perforator.
not sure whether to take the 2nd EON or the 304.

[fleet imp]

Always EoN

And do at least hc for the upgrade

[sour citrus]

Is double 298 EoN still the best?

[balmy condor]

compared to what

"best" is always such a bait concept

like is 298 EoN "best" for a mythic raider with 311's?

no

is it best for a random heroic raider struggling in +15's?

probably

[sour citrus]

298 trixies backup and nathrian assassins backbiter, I have a dinar to spend, thats why I'm asking Sir.

Haven't had the chance to get 311s yet either.

@balmy condor do I spend my dinar on trinket instead? Since I have 298 daggers in my bags?

[subtle tundra]

get 1 eon

[balmy condor]

EoN main hand is equal to a dagger 6 ilvl higher, EoN offhand is more

idk

if you can get 311's

then get a 311

if you can't, then get 2 eon's

the "best" would be getting 2 eon's and upgrading them both to 311 using the mythic tokens

[sour citrus]

@balmy condor thank you!

[sour citrus]

Already have one EoN, was, trying to decide for the second.

[fleet imp]

I just love how none just assume you can kill Sylvanas M and drop em

[native belfry]

Is it okay that 304 chain sims as the best passive trinket for me?

Or should I assume that I won’t always be on full hp especially with Scars

[limber lion]

No, chains is just a really good trinket. Don't be afraid to use it if it sims well

[native belfry]

Thx
Was just thinking whether I should take 304 decanter from the vault

[pale knot]

does anyone have a sim with best gear poss?

[violet jackal]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[violet jackal]

^ that's what you are looking for

[pale knot]

cheerio

[pseudo hamlet]

Just checked GV and realized that there are literally zero possible upgrades for me in this game(not counting random M+ 304 ilvl items from the great vault, also my guild is not raiding mythic this season). Got all fated achievements I wanted. TOP20 Assa rogue in the world according to r.io(just did +20-22 because I wanted them done for the portals, lol). Time to take a break till DF I think...

[gusty mirage]

[vestal wren]

you could also go and play some classic

[pseudo hamlet]

I really liked Wotlk when it was current content. I am afraid that it's impossible to have the same experience as before. Just like it was with the classic vanilla... I'd rather let my memories of wotlk stay right where they currently are - in 2008

Will probably make some NF alts for the mission table "passive" income

[cerulean nest]

yo whisp how up to date is your talent calc google sheet?

for DF

[balmy condor]

Pin says 9/3

[cerulean nest]

really wish there was a way to avoid being forced to take blind and sap etc. at the very top of the class tree just to take away points from the bottom

for raid

seems like those could be baseline and give us a little more room to work with

[marble hemlock]

can we have a lengthy discussion on which date format to use?

[balmy condor]

No because I’m a dumb American and won’t remember

[marble hemlock]

technically it was my suggestion to have it, so i should get to decide the format, no?

[balmy condor]

[marble hemlock]

day/year/month please

[balmy condor]

Not really how that works

[ebon notch]

thats a bit out of date no?

[balmy condor]

4 days yeah

My bad

[ebon notch]

6 months

[gusty mirage]

me waiting for daps to get dunked on

[cerulean nest]

i expect at least one new theory a day

preferably a crafted one

[gusty mirage]

I like my theories based on feel

[ebon notch]

feelycrafties

[gusty mirage]

let's go back to discussing vigor

and how it "feels better"

[spice spire]

Vigor deez son

[gusty mirage]

maybe I will

[spice spire]

[viscid spear]

[plain onyx]

crit/haste for missives ?

[brazen zodiac]

time, date, location, price.

[spice spire]

[brazen zodiac]

[leaden hornet]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/shadowlands-dps-rankings-in-season-4-week-5-fated-mythic-sanctum-of-domination-328718

Those first two graphs are wiildddd

Overall next to dead last and boss dmg s tier

[oak sky]

its not that weird

we have 0 aoe so we dont get to pad on anything, and the affixes mean every boss can have aoe or at least cleave

[brazen zodiac]

no aoe yet

[cobalt hemlock]

only thing you can pad on is probably the balls on painsmith for a second while they are going hc (dont know the fight on mythic)

[oak sky]

only the first one counts for logs

[gusty mirage]

also lol @ 969 sin logs and 718 sub logs

where's my boy fuu at

"assassination tier"

[oak sky]

rofl

outlaw tier

[viscid spear]

More like bench tier

[grim tangle]

omg they buffed atrophic poison nobody saw that coming

[feral rivet]

Gave it to outlaw and sub

[white orchid]

so outlaw gets atrophic and restless?

[feral rivet]

Atrophic is in the general rogue tree now so yes

[white orchid]

Well that’s a little unfair

[minor gate]

Looks like its been replaced with 15% increase weapon poison dmg

Wow

Very wow

[grim tangle]

this is terrible I really don't want to have to pick deeper stratagem

[minor gate]

But what’s wrong with EXTRA bleed time

[misty holly]

Can we see what the new PTR/beta talent trees look like anywhere yet?

I just see the wowhead datamining post that says "has changed position" on a bunch of things.

[white orchid]

So now outlaw is def mandatory with both buffs

[misty holly]

I honestly wouldnt be surprised if this change means Outlaw is losing restless crew.

They just havent done the work to remove it from that tree yet.

[white orchid]

I would assume they would lose it too.

[misty holly]

so we're seeing a halfway done version right now.

[white orchid]

Right. Just would be busted if they had both buffs lol

[misty holly]

Not being able to stack Atrophic and Numbing poison anymore with DTB kind of sucks. What second non-lethal poison are we looking at for raiding now? Just crippling?

[white orchid]

Wouldn’t it still be a no lethal poison?

Non

[misty holly]

It's now a general tree choice node. You get one or the other.

Any spec can get one or the other.

But with DTB we just lost the utility of using both simultaneously

I guess with 2 rogues in a raid it doesn't matter anyways.

Since you can coordinate who takes which

Cold Blood and MFD are now mini-capstone talents rather than required to build deeper into the tree. I like that.

Less button bloat for people who want to avoid them.

The extra connecting paths that Realz was talking about adding a few weeks back made it into the Sin tree. Nice

Since wowheads talent tree doesn't look to be updated yet here is a screenshot for anyone not in beta.

All the assassination talents look to be in the same locations. Nothing moved here. Just general tree changes.

Oh, except for Atrophic Poison (which moved to general) has been replaced by a +15% weapon poison talent, to make up for the general tree poison talent being reduced to only 1 point.

[misty holly]

Whispyr is going to be happy!! You can now bypass Tiny Toxic Blade on the way to Kingsbane. 🥳

[oak sky]

class tree is still kinda bad but some of the bad is removed i guess

thats cool ish

[misty holly]

I like the class tree changes a lot. Thistle Tea still needs to do something else though...

Just giving energy is lame, and late expansion when we are energy flooded is going to be useless

bad look for a capstone

[grim tangle]

marked for death being behind 3 points alacrity is terrible. I guess we'll never get to play with that talent anymore

[misty holly]

Just had an idea while on the toilet.

Thistle Tea speeds up cooldown recovery for select abilities (Realz can decide which ones to balance it) rather than giving energy.

[oak sky]

not to mention that that package has leeching poison+ seal fate, where leeching is definitively worse than cheat and seal fate +thistle tea may not be better than dance+ find weakness

[misty holly]

Same idea, Tea gives you "energy" but in a different way than filling our energy bar.

[vital stump]

talents are better, but still bad overall, other classes feel renovated, assassination is still on shadowlands

[oak sky]

i mean no its not gonna be like shadowlands for sin

we actually got some really good new stuff

[grim tangle]

sometimes I get 5 combo points from mutilate is that normal

[oak sky]

no

[balmy condor]

Don’t mean to be that guy but we have #tww-assassination for a reason, and @grim tangle that’s a reported bug, you can see all known sin bugs in the spreadsheet in that channel

[timid cloud]

Gotta be SICK to be playing Sin right now.

https://tenor.com/view/im-feeling-sick-gif-22248733

[gusty mirage]

it is, I'm enjoying it thoroughly

[timid cloud]

Won’t catch me dead playing it in keys though.

I simply will never suffer like that.

[balmy condor]

How dare you enjoy something

[timid cloud]

HAPPINESS? IN MY RETAIL?

More likely than you’d expect. Doctors hate him for it!

[gusty mirage]

enjoying that as well

[timid cloud]

[gusty mirage]

had a blast

top damooj too

[oak sky]

its actually fun for your spec to do big st damage but not be fotm in raid

[spice spire]

Play NF then

Trust

[timid cloud]

More of a Kyrian kinda guy.

[spice spire]

Science has gone too far

[timid cloud]

[marble hemlock]

dunno if anybody else said it already, but crippling doesnt work on bosses. theyre immune to it

so unless that changes, you have to pick atrophic if you want a 2nd non-lethal poison for lethal dose purposes

[sleek sundial]

@balmy condor you said my tree was bonkers

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1002024171854901348/unknown.png

posted on 07/27

I almost got it

[balmy condor]

Yeah I still don’t like it but at least mfd is out of the way now

ER still looks really stupid only being accessible from the middle row and being a useless point

[oak sky]

rather go mfd than cold blood im ngl

but i am glad that theyre in a position thats less required

[marble hemlock]

3p alacrity

[thin portal]

how do assass rogues like raiding and M+? Outlaw rogue here.

I feel outlaw is getting boring, you just sit there with cleave activated.

Great for beginners

I'm wondering if that legendary at 30% hp = more dmg is really nice to see in m+ and raiding.

The run speed is really low though, I don't know If I like running slower.

Im also curious to see the wound poison stacks in pvp, after you get the rotation down.

outlaw and sub wound poison is almost useless.

[balmy condor]

Raiding you have to run Duskwalker, it’s the only viable legendary.

In m+ Assassination also runs Duskwalker, because well, our aoe is dogshit and nothing you can do will fix it, so you’re existence is solely based on coping for boss/prio damage

[thin portal]

do you find keeping track of bleeds more fun than cleave?

[balmy condor]

I’m the wrong person to ask, I’m a well known outlaw hater

[thin portal]

no your perfect than

[balmy condor]

So really anything is more fun

[thin portal]

why do you prefer assass

tell me

[balmy condor]

Aside from the thematics, I prefer shadowstep over grappling hook, I also prefer the bleed setup and slower rotation over the fast pace of outlaw, it just makes more sense to me to bleed and poison and weave the cooldowns in.
I also really dislike roll the bones and the rng behind it even if it isn’t impactful it just always sucks to roll 1 buff or even 2 buffs that don’t really do anything rotationally. On top of that, with the speed of outlaw, none of the buttons feel like they actually do anything. You strike, whatever, pistol shot proc, cool, dispatch doesn’t hit hard, bte doesn’t hit hard. And like envenom doesn’t hit hard either but idk, you’re just always pressing something with outlaw so it all just blurs together. Outlaw cooldowns also just… aren’t cooldowns because of restless blades, so you’re not even planning that, you’re just mongo smashing all your cooldowns and then pressing the shiny procs all the time

Feels like I’m playing whack a mole instead of some cunning rogue

It just ain’t it

[thin portal]

ty for the detailed response. im reading now.

[vestal wren]

i wonder how fast the DF rotation is, possible that its quite a bit faster given that energy income seems higher

[oak sky]

its definitely much faster during cds, might be about the same outside cds with vw down to 7 from 8

[thin portal]

maybe its my gear and not enough haste, but i find assass always energy starved.

[oak sky]

in cds right now with tier set it should be fast

and slow outside cds

[thin portal]

or I have to learn to pool, as Outlaw is just whack a mole like you said.

[oak sky]

not much pooling on current assassination but in dragonflight we might return to that

[thin portal]

is there a haste cap to stop being energy starved on assass?

[oak sky]

nah

its just how it is

[thin portal]

I feel like unless Vendetta is up, your low on energy.

[oak sky]

you need like huge amounts of haste to notice the energy regen difference

like 10-15% before you would even notice a real difference

[thin portal]

I was trying to stack haste gear for Assass

[oak sky]

definitely use sims to gear yourself

haste is a good stat for us, but typically we want a little more crit than haste right now

[thin portal]

my highest dps is outlaw so I am not sure how to make assass better

also in AOE do you just spam Fan of knives and apply poisons to all mobs?

that would be a real fun keeping 5+ mobs with bleeds

much more entertaining than sitting cleave as outlaw

[balmy condor]

You maintain CT first, then spread dots as you can

Envenom keeps up slice and dice but otherwise sees no use in aoe

That might change next expansion, poisons are going pretty ballistic

[thin portal]

unless single target priority

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[thin portal]

i see

[balmy condor]

But If you’re doing prio, you’re doing it with vendetta

And with the tier that means more bleeds

So even then envenom is just slice and dice uptime and a filler if literally nothing else is happening

[thin portal]

Vendetta is not helpful on AOE's since its single target though?

or the energy regen is what helps to apply more bleeds to the pack

I guess you could vendetta the main target in a pack of mobs.

yeah that would work

Do you notice your dps meter going sky high when bosses get to 30% and lower?

I'd imagine assass rogues getting happy when the legendary starts taking effect.

[oak sky]

we don't play zoldyck right now

[storm onyx]

Thats mainly what it is. We are there to focus the prio or high hp mobs in packs while others dps down everything. Dusk legendary is only we use because Vendetta is up in 50secs; its like every pull depending on tank

[whole mason]

Ha! Cunning may be not in the dictionary of outlaws. Wait! they dont have a dictionary or the time to ever use it.

[thin portal]

Yeah not sure where blizzard thought a pirate is part of rogue idea.

so dumb

[whole mason]

Edwin Vancleef, considered as a typical rogue in wow, owns a ship.

[thin portal]

OMG

I just found a nice rotation for sin

finally

been trying to make it work cuz Outlaw was getting boring

Mark of death is the gold winner for rotation

imo

[limber lion]

It sure is

[balmy condor]

[cursive summit]

is deathmark bugged on the ptr? Doesn't seem to duplicate

[limber lion]

Yes, a lot of things are NYI.

Go to #tww-assassination for more info and talk about DF

[surreal flower]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[sturdy merlin]

@limber lion Hey do you still raid atm ?

[limber lion]

Yeh

[sturdy merlin]

What’s your best parse on halondrus ? I’m curious

[limber lion]

You mean dps wise or

[sturdy merlin]

There is only a few sin parses this season, not to mention the pumpers logging in private

Yeah just dps

[limber lion]

nah like 21k only, did my first set of bombs ever last week so didn't want to int

No wait, only 20k rip

[sturdy merlin]

Rip, bombs post-nerf are easy tho

Im sure you got used to it already

[limber lion]

Yeh got 2 pulls in doing bombs now, it's not too bad

but yeah I never had to do a single pull ever with bombs

didn't prog Halondrus either

[sturdy merlin]

I was planning on playing subkyr during progress but my brain couldn’t handle the rotation+bombs so… I went back to the real spec

[limber lion]

LMAO

okay I like Scars now

[vestal wren]

anduin?

nvm

[limber lion]

No, Jailer

[vestal wren]

i saw it after sending^^

[limber lion]

Yeah, only used it once towards the end and it proc'd during the mote spawns

Pretty funny

[brazen zodiac]

Lol.

Good trinket!

[spice spire]

Phase 4 💀

[vestal wren]

nice damage

[limber lion]

One use of trinket for 1.8m damage

lmao

[spice spire]

Brother?

[limber lion]

LUL

my contribution to mote damage

a single press of a trinket

[spice spire]

I’m more concerned about the Spriest doing more

With no trinket

[dark token]

padder spec

same thing happeend on kelthuzad

[spice spire]

I mean yeah one cast of torment mind was 6 figures of damage

[woven locust]

heya, has a sample tree been posted in this channel?

[limber lion]

#tww-assassination

[woven locust]

thank you sir

[olive flame]

So I have Kihra's and Hateful chain. Should I run Kihra's and Amplifier? Or Weapon Cache? Is it worth having 2 on use trinkets? I sim higher with Kihra's and Amp but I'm not sure if my CD's will line up correctly with both on use trinkets. Does it ruin the synergy or should I use my last Dinar on the Amp?

I don't want my rotation to feel clunky af lol

[violet jackal]

2 on use typically feels clunky to the common player

[echo geyser]

scars with motes

[ashen scroll]

lmao fin

[celest ruin]

does the 5th scars buff explode on use or when it expires?

[balmy condor]

when it expires

[dark token]

Try 3 onuse trinkets it's awful

[thorn fjord]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[solid mica]

is there an input to sim the bounty affix?

[vestal wren]

yes

[limber dagger]

is there anyone pushing with assa?

[balmy condor]

no

[violet jackal]

yes

[gusty mirage]

There are people doing 27+ as assassination?

[violet jackal]

I am trying to

[gusty mirage]

You’re doing 27s?

[violet jackal]

I am trying to

[subtle tundra]

I finished a 27 as assa

[violet jackal]

Afto has a 29 timed as assassination and he mythic raids as necrolord

[subtle tundra]

Junkyard doesn't count

Zero also did a 31 jy

But you can play any comp there

[violet jackal]

he also has streets, gambit, and grimrail above 27

[subtle tundra]

but are those his highest keys?

[balmy condor]

Who?

[violet jackal]

He is an EU rogue, I see his name a lot since we in the same covenant bracket

[balmy condor]

Aha

[subtle tundra]

cool

[balmy condor]

Cause I have no fucking clue who that is

[subtle tundra]

but im also looking at his conduits

and he was playing fucking fok conduit

on necro

in a tyra week?

like

what

😐

[violet jackal]

I mean it clearly he is a self feel crafter what can you say

[subtle tundra]

it doesnt take a genious to realise its really bad when you see fok doing 3% of your overall

cause thats how much it does when you play necro

[violet jackal]

it clear he probably hasn't paid attention to that

[subtle tundra]

holy moly im looking at how much he has played and he has done so many keys

wtf

[thorn fjord]

How many is so many

[subtle tundra]

im not counting

you can do that if you want

[thorn fjord]

I'll just take your word for it lol

[violet jackal]

my seasonal valor is over 50k

[subtle tundra]

💀

[brazen zodiac]

[violet jackal]

I'm guessing that's a lot 😅

[pseudo hamlet]

I have 15k and I personally think that's a lot!

[dark token]

zero used to do a ton of high keys all as sin but i guess hes outlaw now

https://raider.io/characters/eu/silvermoon/Zerøcøol#season=season-sl-2

[violet jackal]

traitor

[viscid spear]

[subtle tundra]

i mean shit changed unfortunately

in s2 you could assa wasnt as behind as it is now

so you could play it and not feel like youre completely trolling

[marble hemlock]

yeah afto is a well known assa OTP and necro lover

[violet jackal]

@balmy condor see i'm not the only person who knows them

[marble hemlock]

always has been

[gusty mirage]

Ah yes, mr fan of knives in ST

Good choice

[dark token]

I wouldnt know didnt look at logs

[gusty mirage]

Neither did I

[viscid spear]

Just throw them all in front of you

[gusty mirage]

I watched him do it

[dark token]

well you know fan of knives shoots out 100 knives and mutilate only uses 2

100 knives must do more dmg right

[gusty mirage]

TRUE

Big brain play

[dark token]

thats the true sin OTP technique

[gusty mirage]

[viscid spear]

🗡️ 🔪

[thorn fjord]

bring back Wrath FoK 🤣

[fallow canopy]

Sheesh

[carmine dawn]

@gusty mirage a fan, of knives?
No. No I’m not.

[low quartz]

Hey guys - is there a guide you guys feel is the most accurate reflection of rotation etc?

[violet jackal]

#assassination-faq or wowhead

[low quartz]

ok cool - yeah a lot of misinformation out there, good to know wowhead is a reliable source

[violet jackal]

Rogue sections of WoWhead are written by the same Theorycrafters of this discord

[slow osprey]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[weak plover]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[dark token]

top sin rogue higher than top sub rogue in m+

[balmy condor]

both garbage

[oak sky]

Probably more sin one tricks tbh

[manic pebble]

can sin do better than outlaw in high keys?

[balmy condor]

no

that's probably why no one plays sin in high keys

[spice spire]

It can

If the outlaw is 30 ilvl lower

[manic pebble]

sad truth

[timid cloud]

I love doing more work for less DPS!

Yay!

[stray mural]

It depends on your definition of high keys

I timed all 20’s this season and to me that’s high-ish. It’s better than the average.

Maybe all 20’s both sides is a joke idk

[sinful cradle]

But he asked if sin can do better than outlaw

Not if sin is good for high keys

[stray mural]

Oh I misunderstood the question.

I’m sorry

[dark token]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[dark token]

where is the cev bleed WA

[pure moth]

https://wago.io/rk2kEs76d

^ that is the one

[dark token]

Ct not in it sadge

[pure moth]

nope. only rupture/garrote were the most important. if you can fit ct in there, then great. but wasnt priority

[fleet shale]

How to opener on Sin?

[oak sky]

#assassination-faq

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[gray hazel]

Is there a reason why the top Sin M+ rogues are using Kihar's over the Xymox one?

2min vs 3min cd?

[jovial spear]

Bought Cache with my second dinar because it’s fun. Gonna buy scars with my last if I don’t luck out on Jailer on Sunday, or in vault. - or should I buy veinripper for outlaw-fun at the end of expansion?

Any thoughts?

[balmy condor]

both top tier trinkets really not that much difference between them, probably just preference

[gray hazel]

Gotcha. Top ones guardian, xymox and Kiharas?

[balmy condor]

if you like outlaw, sure why not get a veinripper

[balmy condor]

yeah, eoc is decent as well

it's usually scars + kihra or scars + fusion amp

but really scars + kihra/amp/cache/eoc/decanter

all really close

[gray hazel]

kk thanks!

[sudden hound]

I don't consider myself a top player at all but for me it boils down to consistency. I find myself in situations where axe is not up during a big pull and by the time it comes around the packs mostly dead. Whereas kihras is up more often and I can just guarantee a big mastery buff during big pulls
I do think axe has some super niche really powerful situations like 2nd to last boss in docks and using axe into the wolves he spawns.

[gray hazel]

Thats fair, i was actually just looking at your raider.io profile!

I have noticed some frustrations with the timing of Xymox axe, even being able to pop it without a target would be a nice change for it.

I am hoping to not notice a big difference with using Kihras, since its easy to see with xymox trinket with it having a damage profile

[sudden hound]

Cache has a higher damage ceiling 100% and if you and your group can play/pull around its rotation then I reckon you could see more damage with that trinket. I pug more often than not and prefer the consistency of the mastery buff personally. I think both a sold trinkets though and you can't go wrong with one vs the other

Are solid*

[gray hazel]

Sweet, thanks for input Azmol!

[pseudo hamlet]

Sim yourself. I thought about buying Scars, but it shows me that the 298 version is worse than 298 Kihra.
I am left with 2 dinars and I have no idea on what should I spend them... probably on the t-mogs for daggers.

[balmy condor]

Might be equal in raid but uh, it’s saucy in m+

[pseudo hamlet]

Still shows me it's inferior in sims(dungeon slice)... on the other hand Chains of Domination trinket is +145 upgrade
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ji5Us96R6cckGuxULZFXWy

How are you even using Scars in M+?

[subtle tundra]

fyi eoc is bait in m+, in aoe youll never get it to stack

[low quartz]

So wait

we maintain crimson tempest

even on Single Target?

[vestal wren]

yes

crimson tempest is even a gain to use on single target

[pseudo hamlet]

Yeah, for pure AoE is meh. It's good for bosses and Flag+Ven on priority targets after spreading the bleeds though...
Was wondering if there's a good passive alternative. Decanter or The Eye trinket maybe?

[subtle tundra]

decanter if you dont go crit bounty

no mfd wtf

[pseudo hamlet]

Was always playing Subt+Vigor in M+, while MFD + MS in raids.

[subtle tundra]

you always play mfd for venth

its big dps increase

even if you dont reset

[pseudo hamlet]

Thinking about swapping to Necro

Mostly because of the PvP

[subtle tundra]

you dont have to think about it?

[oak sky]

You can be any covenant any time lol

[subtle tundra]

its literally a button press away

this aint 9.0

[pseudo hamlet]

Yeah, was playing NF in 9.2

[pseudo hamlet]

Like the "passive" gold from the mission table though 😛

[oak sky]

You just log off with your mission table running

[subtle tundra]

you can swap as many times as you want

[oak sky]

Hes right that swapping kills your mission table

[subtle tundra]

i never cared about it sorry

[pseudo hamlet]

don't worry

So you're saying that decanter + haste bounty should be better in M+?

Than EoC + Crit?

[subtle tundra]

no

crit bounty for venthyr

so decanter loses value

haste bounty for necro

so decanter is stronk

[limber lion]

I would just stick to EOC. It's honestly super strong and Vendetta forces you to focus one target anyways. It's not that big of a deal if you don't have 10 stacks in the beginning when you're spreading out the initial garrotes and ruptures.

In the end it honestly doesn't matter what trinket you use, the difference is a few hundred dps if that lol

[pseudo hamlet]

Yeah, did a lot of sims and it shown me that the difference isn't that high.

[balmy condor]

Give it a week

[subtle tundra]

uh oh

whispy you naughty boy

[balmy condor]

Pain in the ass trinket man

I’m pretty sure we can get 3% out of it though in dslice

Hopefully

[pseudo hamlet]

What about the second mechagon ring? The one with weird behaviour that I sent you logs? (DM'ed you before)

[woeful wigeon]

can anyone tell me how to transmog dagger into the daggers of wrathion Golad and Tiriosh

not working

[pseudo hamlet]

There's a pin in the #transmog about it! 😄

[woeful wigeon]

ty for info will check

[woeful wigeon]

tyvm

[pseudo hamlet]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/anyone-unable-to-transmog-tiriosh-nightmare-of-ageslegendary-cata-daggers/410289

[balmy condor]

yah just whack I guess idk

[limber lion]

Even if you could instaproc it with one gcd, it'll still be worse or as good as the backstab one most things considered.

So no worries there, just get your backystabby ring

[pseudo hamlet]

Was wondering if that would have any impact, but I guess it's just marginal thing

[dark token]

As an additional protip use mouse over garrotes and ruptures, stay autoattacking the same target

Sin rotation in m+ is just fok and bleeds mostly anyway, if you mouseover your bleeds you won't lose the stacks

[subtle tundra]

sure, if you do that and you do it perfectly its good

but you wont do it perfectly

nameplates move too much you will override bleeds often enough that it wont be worth the slight dps increase from eoc

[bleak sky]

Mouse over bleeds monkaW

[ebon notch]

how are you

feels like you went on hiatus for a bit

[bleak sky]

I did, things are going good now

[ebon notch]

good to hear broski

[gray hazel]

Theotar vs Nadia, is there that much of a difference between the 2 for M+?

Or does it really just come down to what tea buff you get?

[violet jackal]

Tea and shade uptime

[brazen zodiac]

hi minal !

[gray hazel]

Gotcha, thanks!

[magic torrent]

[dark token]

people use mouseover interrupts all the time its not any different, in fact easier since you dont need to hit a specific target but any target that doesnt have a bleed

i agree on a 10 pull nameplates move around all the time but its not that bad if you configured your plates addon correctly, and on lower pullcounts its super easy

[subtle tundra]

i have never seen someone play mouseover intrerrupt

its extremely unreliable

what if you kick and the tank kited for 1 sec

you missed

bam wipe

[night delta]

Yeah, I'm in Focus kick gang too

[ebon notch]

im pretty sure ram does?

ive seen him talk about it

[subtle tundra]

i think he does focus?

@echo geyser !!!

[limber lion]

Yeh he has focus kick setup

[ebon notch]

i remember he said something about having both focus and mouseover

in case he needed to kick something that wasnt his focus

he'll correct me either way

[spice spire]

[ebon notch]

[dark token]

get good aim

dont people with focus setups use mouseover focus and then focus kick?

dunno i got used to not using focus since focus was for tricks so mouseover interrupt or click on nameplate then interrupt works for me

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[violet jackal]

yea I just tab target with stacked nameplates

[grim tangle]

I just don't kick

[dark token]

or that

[ebon notch]

[violet jackal]

i'm sure someone could make a lawful, evil, neutral chart about this

[echo geyser]

Normal target and focus for kick gogue blind kidney cheapshot

[subtle tundra]

thats before the pull

[echo geyser]

Dont have mousover for important stuff

[echo geyser]

Only thing i have mouseover is for setting focus itself, fallover target if no mouseover

And separate mouseover tricks in case tank dies or w/e

[leaden hornet]

Blah like 289ilvl and did 12k in a 15 lower. Terrabad right

Was half day couple bosses tbh

Dead

[normal mist]

I went fotm this season, been doin keys as outlaw and goddamn it I am bad at it and it still pumps way higher than me on assa

[glass berry]

Ikr, dmg-wise sin feels like 20 ilvls behind outlaw

[normal mist]

I've been pulling 15/16k dps overalls in my 15's (started this season last week) and I'm not even sure I'm doing things properly, like, I've been choosing vers instead of CRIT this whole time xD (afix buff)

Learned 1h ago that I should have been getting CRIT... :))

[subtle tundra]

i can do within 1-2k dps difference between assa and outlaw in most dungeons

assa may not be the best and its harder to play but if the difference is not astronomical

[glass berry]

what key range?

[oak sky]

the really high ones

[subtle tundra]

above 20

wish i could go into more detail, just havent played that much this season

[normal mist]

I'm a pleb tho, did 20's for portals only

And I can almost brain afk and play outlaw xD

[subtle tundra]

as i said, its easier to play yes

[glass berry]

Maybe its mine skill issue then I haven't pushed more than some timed 21s on outlaw this season with finishing relatively stable 20-23k dps overall

Tried sin earlier this week (im eu btw) on 15-17 keys and man my overall was underwhelming

[subtle tundra]

well yea

if you dont know how to play you will have bad dps

[glass berry]

I guess my gear is not perfect (dont have offhand EoN yet, only main)

[subtle tundra]

outlaw in m+ is the same as outlaw in raid

and the venthyr build is very easy

[glass berry]

according to warcraftlogs bracked i still did 75% and it was literally 15k dps overall

so i dunno man

[subtle tundra]

1. m+ logs are memes

[oak sky]

arent m+ logs by key level

[subtle tundra]

2. nobody plays assa so logs arent accurate

the good players arent playing

[glass berry]

oh, and I wonder why is that

[oak sky]

just try to top the group you're playing in, do that enough times and you know what good damage is and even if people beat you you know if you're playing well

[subtle tundra]

cause, as i said

outlaw is better

[glass berry]

I hate to be that person - and I know my case is nothing near the actual statistics due to not having enough exp in sin - but I have very hard time believing that 1-2k difference between assa and outlaw

[subtle tundra]

idk i was r1 assa last season and r2 assa the season before

[oak sky]

this is like the go to ravenholdt active for sin m+ man

[glass berry]

I hope you will prove me wrong coz I really love sin class fantasy and playing outlaw doesnt feel like rogue imo, but still

[oak sky]

he knows his shit

[subtle tundra]

i dont play enough this season to go around testing

[oak sky]

i dont even like sin in m+ this season

tbh

[subtle tundra]

i love it this season

[oak sky]

tier set in aoe is not my thing

[subtle tundra]

necro is so fun

with haste bounty\

[oak sky]

so sbs ticks faster

?

[subtle tundra]

vendetta has like 45 sec cd

in st

[oak sky]

lmao

[subtle tundra]

you have almost 50% uptime

[balmy condor]

link logs

[oak sky]

have you been going kevin

[balmy condor]

I ain't doing this shit again

[subtle tundra]

i popped on pull on maiden and had it for first shield

ok its was 45% vendetta uptime mb 😦

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kFAPC6NcRphKYLXn/#fight=last

i was talking about maiden

i did 25k dps overall and it was a scuffed run

from 3 weeks ago