assassination

[spice spire]

My luck this season has been pretty 💩

[thorn fjord]

But win ST sims are about 1k less 😦

No weap?

[spice spire]

I even have doz trying to funneling me weapons

No weapons, no rings, no bitches

[thorn fjord]

You didn’t get your heroic eon at least?

[spice spire]

Rocking the 278s, finally get the eon this week

Started week one as warrior

[thorn fjord]

Ahhh

[spice spire]

Realized that we needed the rogues damage for the first bit

So I’m missing 4-5

[thorn fjord]

This week is the week

🙏

[ebon notch]

@spice spire how r u

[spice spire]

Unbelievably tired how about you, papi?

[ebon notch]

chilling

why have you not been sleeping

[slow marsh]

You guys ever get a full 8 hours of sleep and still feel like you should sleep a couple extra?

[ebon notch]

yes

its called sleep debt

[thorn fjord]

I feel that way getting any amount of sleep

4-12 hours

Wake up feeling dead

Have a kid they said… it’ll be fun they said

[spice spire]

Brother I don’t sleep that’s why

[ebon notch]

yeah cause sleep debt takes time to get over

[spice spire]

I run on 3-5 hours a night

[ebon notch]

its not like you can sleep 4 hours 4 days then 24 hours 1 day and be vibin

[spice spire]

[ebon notch]

not good

[slow marsh]

He's a machien

[thorn fjord]

I average about 6 and a half hours a day

[spice spire]

Yo that’s actually not bad for a kid

Unironically but you lose a lot of deep sleep probably

[thorn fjord]

Yeah

[slow marsh]

6 and a half is well above quake's avg

[thorn fjord]

I nap with him when I can

[spice spire]

It’s true.
6.5 hours is well above my average

[thorn fjord]

Life hack is to learn how to nap at work without it affecting your performance or getting caught

[spice spire]

I wasn’t able to get my 14 hour in this weekend because I had stuff to do

That’s usually how I cope

[slow marsh]

weirdo

[spice spire]

Nah, the logic is sound.
I’m pretty schedule, pass out at 10 on Friday, wake up at about 11-12 Saturday, start cooking, then chill the rest of the weekend after I’m done cooking for the weeek

[viscid spear]

Buddy we're all weirdos here

[slow marsh]

of course we are that's the point

[viscid spear]

Self-deprecation, hmm

[brazen zodiac]

imagine being a weirdo

[slow marsh]

Im not even playing the game and i'm still checking this channel more than any other

[brazen zodiac]

can actually be me

and ice

and everyone else in this discord

[thorn fjord]

Imagine NOT being a weirdo

I gotta start running keys with some of y’all

Current state of affairs https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/58zxAyybWE3Km1PodhR6S4

[brazen zodiac]

if u wanna run i can trade anything so

[thorn fjord]

I just need valor farm

[brazen zodiac]

im oxis certified ring donator

[thorn fjord]

Nice.. got my yard ring yesterday from a random hunter

[spice spire]

I’m maintenance gaming on the rings

[brazen zodiac]

pepehands

[gusty mirage]

unlucky

[spice spire]

I’ve only done like 25 mechas tho

[gusty mirage]

could always message me

and be like "yo come funnel"

[spice spire]

Buddy

You’re always busy when I’m doing keys

[gusty mirage]

"busy"

[spice spire]

I don’t want to bother you papi

Plus I have to do the GM thing and help my guild

[gusty mirage]

I literally logged off poe to help someone with keys sunday night lol

[spice spire]

League that bad, huh?

[gusty mirage]

it's def not good

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

whispyr and jez quit

[spice spire]

Hate to see it - wasn’t last league like GIGA?

[gusty mirage]

ye sentinel was fun af

[spice spire]

I know jez said that last night

She ranked some keys

[gusty mirage]

the league mechanic doesn't drop dick

I ran 2 of them this morning

[spice spire]

Ahhh yes I love my crawlers with 0 loot

I’m in it for the experience, not the progression

[gusty mirage]

fuck chris wilson

[slow marsh]

fuck that guy

[brazen zodiac]

wym path league no good

u got a whole ass exalt bro

thats like a whole ass 12 chaos rn bro come on bro its so good rn bro.

[distant mesa]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oX5XZ4xYZaDM82t6Ge125B any particular reason Mastery enchants are taking over for me now? lol https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/p5jQBeZ7Gk5gsrC1tCf7yg

I made the switch to the darkside of Venthyr....

[thorn fjord]

Mastery has a lot more value now from what I gather… been doing it with my sin sims also

[distant mesa]

hmmm... interesting

wonder if its due to the interation of 4p + all the S4 items

[violet jackal]

Both your trinkets are giving you tons of crit that’s why

[brazen zodiac]

4pc

sup pandaman

[violet jackal]

Aloha

[distant mesa]

I'm overcapping crit due to that?

[balmy condor]

Welcome to Assassination

[distant mesa]

that makes a ton of sense.... wow

and thats not sarcastic I like graphs

[violet jackal]

Over capping is a strong word more like the balance is disturbed

[balmy condor]

Sin just loves all stats equally

[fallow canopy]

more like diminishing returns no?

[balmy condor]

Like a tired mother of 5

[brazen zodiac]

more like 12

[distant mesa]

thanks I was wondering why even with everything above that 25% stat with the dimishing crap it was still wanting certain things

[burnt latch]

boys

another 311 item from raid

ez 311 loot every week + one vaulted

[distant mesa]

gratz

[violet jackal]

What a great life I wish I lived that life 🙂

Nvm you have a stun grenade I don’t want your life anymore

[distant mesa]

I got lucky with Decanter/Eye of Command

[violet jackal]

Bruh I haven’t even seen an eye of command yet. It’s the last piece I need

[brazen zodiac]

first EoN acquired

we big boys n gals

[brazen zodiac]

HUGE

[burnt latch]

yeah i usually dont play assa so my gear is very suboptimal

[spice spire]

Ur still cute as fuck tho

(And geared)

[brazen zodiac]

yeah

[burnt latch]

SO ARE YOU BB

ilysm

[brazen zodiac]

u dont gotta be 301 to be as hot as u are warcieft

cmmon

share some of that hotness ffs

[burnt latch]

[spice spire]

Ilym

[ebon notch]

which piece

also the KT trinket doesnt count

cause its fucking trash

[burnt latch]

not true

and got a cloak

[ebon notch]

you literally posted a screenshot being like "am i using it right its doing no damage"

[burnt latch]

it has a lot of agi

sims good

[ebon notch]

waw

stat stick pog

it simmed good in SOD also

[burnt latch]

are u saying u cant trust sims

@balmy condor tell this pagan

[ebon notch]

was about as useful as a water soluble umbrella

[balmy condor]

KT trinket is fine

[burnt latch]

there we go

[violet jackal]

It's better than what it originally was

[ebon notch]

ur fine

[spice spire]

Yeah he is

[burnt latch]

thanks bros (in a bro way ofc)

[royal lantern]

👬

[thorn fjord]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xho4VSZKJy19Ue5AZBJu1C not awful

Just need an offhand

Do we just use Skulkers on CD

[spice spire]

Yeah

[thorn fjord]

not sure why but this made me ugly laugh irl

[spice spire]

Because you are that tired mother of five?

[abstract juniper]

so uh, i got my first Puzzling Cartel Dinar (off LFR if that matters), and don't see any Edge of Night at the vendor??

nevermind wrong vendor lol

i'm a dumb dumb

[viscid spear]

[violet jackal]

what's that website that looks at the top logs and places them vertically in timeline format

[loud light]

https://www.lorrgs.io/

[kindred crescent]

how is loop of division vs loop of recursion?

[violet jackal]

.6% difference for me

[kindred crescent]

hmm okay

[violet jackal]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4UQshyvm4FR4YYUYN1JaZw

[kindred crescent]

I got a 304 and was wondering if worth replacing

[violet jackal]

sim it

[balmy condor]

!unityfix

[prisma monolith]

If you have issues with UNITY not working try the following:

• Log out and in again
• Close down World of Warcraft and clear the wow cache (delete Cache folder in WoW/retail)
• Unequip the Legendary and equip it again
• Change Soulbinds/Covenant

To prevent this issue in the future:

• Make sure to avoid putting two different unity legendaries on different gear sets. If you swap saved gear sets with different unities, it will break.

[thorn fjord]

bring back the WA imo

Damn you blizzard

[ebon notch]

there is still a weakaura that works

https://wago.io/bMIfX1ISl/1

[thorn fjord]

Oh damn nice

[main solar]

So Improved Garrote just doesn't work on the Alpha so I can't test it, but did Shrouded Suffocation's 3 combo points only come from the first garrote out of stealth, or all garrotes in the subterfuge window? Actually curious if the way Improved Garrote is worded would mean it would only work on the initial garrote if used first from stealth, giving it another slight difference from subterfuge.

[limber lion]

SS worked on all 3 gcd's used during Subterfuge

[main solar]

Also SS' wording seems to imply its a flat 15% damage buff to garrote at all times and not just when used from stealth, which im pretty sure is how the old version worked.

[limber lion]

So you got 5cp from just 2 garrotes.

[main solar]

not that it couldnt change, but not sure if its just an oversight

[limber lion]

But yeh, previously SS only buffed the garrotes used from stealth/during subterfuge.

[main solar]

if they want it to only give the combo points once, they could maybe have it be "The first garrote used after breaking stealth" or something to make it work with improved garrote and not require subterfuge as well, since that seems to be the point of improved garrote in the first place.

Although I just realized improved garrote already has a 50% damage increase when used from stealth like original SS had. Kinda makes the 2 very similar.

Also to add on to the shadowstep bug, I can't get it to work on any aggressive mobs either, gives the same "Invalid Target" error. Haven't run across a friendly player in the waking shores to test it on them, but so far I haven't been able to get it to work at all.

[sick aspen]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[thorn fjord]

So behind on Alpha builds and such... Theyre bringing back Shrouded Suffocation?

[vestal wren]

yes

[main solar]

Can now confirm shadowstep doesn't work on friendly players either.

[vestal wren]

it sometimes works

its super weird

[distant plinth]

You running necro sin in keys?

[violet jackal]

since day 1

[distant plinth]

How is it? Tried to find some vids on YouTube cant find a thing🤣

[distant plinth]

Become a sin tuber plz!

[violet jackal]

I like it, it pretty simple bonespike ever new target don't overcap I don't have personality to be a content creator

[distant plinth]

Hmmm, ill go one trick assa when i Get my hands on the daggers!

[brazen zodiac]

but pandaman

ur so cool

id watch

[dull yew]

If I wanted to previous the stats I got from gear I don't have, how would I go about it?

[violet jackal]

If your question is how do you sim different gear than what you own, you need the id of the item

[dull yew]

Didn't plan on simming it, just checking the stat values I'd end up with. So I'm set if I just get the item IDs and manually put them into the SimC copy pasta?

[violet jackal]

yea

[dull yew]

thanks mate

Oh and how would I go about doing that with legendaries

[violet jackal]

raidbot lets you add all legendaries

also the line you are looking to type looks something like this

[dull yew]

And here I was hoping for a simple drag and drop tool

[violet jackal]

Raidbot gets kinda nutty once you start to learn the nuances I been going ham doing sims for my guild

[dull yew]

Ah no option to toggle pvp bonus, there goes this idea

thanks anyway mate

[weak hearth]

Hey guys, I missed the first couple of weeks of the new season. Is sin really as bad as it looks on subcreation and warcraftlogs?

[violet jackal]

no?

[main solar]

@balmy condor Seal Fate seems to be behaving pretty oddly and inconsistent on Alpha. Cold Blood Mutilate (confirmed in combat log that both hits crit) onto a target and only got 2 combo points. Then sometimes I mutilate once and get FIVE combo points. Perhaps its something from the vicious venoms extra poison damage being a crit and triggering seal fate? I can't seem to reliably replicate a specific case though. Feels like it just randomly gives or doesn't give combo points whenever it feels like it. Dunno if you or anyone else wants to take a crack at it.

[obsidian aurora]

mechagon ring worth getting for raids?

[loud light]

have you considered simming them to find out?

[obsidian aurora]

sure did

[balmy condor]

I had this happen too and couldn’t replicate easily, can you send me the log

[main solar]

Was just using the ingame combat log chat window, which in itself is kind hard to figure out timings of combo point generations and such since it all happens at the same time and prints in a random order. Gotta figure out how to set up warcraftlogs for alpha and can probably try some different scenarios later.

[balmy condor]

It’s the same as retail

Just a different logs folder

[vast loom]

!bos

[prisma monolith]

Please Contribute by filling out the form on the title card with any info you have tested
This sheet is community-driven and may have some inaccuracies or be slightly out of date. You can help fix this by contributing!
Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[distant mesa]

thoughts on Venthyr M+ Talents Vigor vs MfD?

[vast loom]

id assume MFD all day as Venthyr

[distant mesa]

energy feels so slow

dont know why 😦

[limber walrus]

what is your haste at?

[distant mesa]

base? 838 stat

in a key atm I'll get teh % after

[gusty mirage]

vigor doesn't do anything for your energy regen, it just feels like it does something because it increases your max energy. If you play venthyr you should play mfd

the increased energy regen isn't even noticeable

[distant mesa]

the 50 energy is 😢

[gusty mirage]

I would just play necro in keys if you want to play sin tbh

[zinc frost]

Necro with haste bounty is not bad at alll

[distant mesa]

thats base

[limber walrus]

Soulbind?

[distant mesa]

people are swapping back to Theo?

guessing because the Mastery unbrella

[limber walrus]

and party favors

[distant mesa]

i'll try that for a key

thank you

[limber walrus]

unless your Venomous Wounds is bugged or something you shouldn't be having regen problems.

[distant mesa]

yeah it literally just felt sluggish

I'ma unequip unity and swap telents reload and swap back

[spice spire]

I was a certified hater of this

But statistics are showing a positive sign

@subtle tundra the prophet

[iron vigil]

Where is everyone putting their Unity leggo? I just got my mech rings, so now I need my helm for 4 set bonus.

[spice spire]

Ends up being chest wrists for me

[iron vigil]

Thanks I thought it was wrists

[brazen zodiac]

waist for me rip

[distant plinth]

Got Edge from vault. Not sure which item i should buy today

[pulsar apex]

is leeching poison ever a good idea with scars?

[balmy condor]

A second edge

[balmy condor]

I mean that whole row is just a personal choice, you can play leeching poison whenever you’d like

Makes no difference

People already played leeching poison all the time

[subtle tundra]

I am an influence

[vestal wren]

you didn't say if you are a good or bad influence

[distant plinth]

damn, assa one trick in keys and raids!?

[balmy condor]

sub wants two as well

[distant plinth]

hmmm ill get 30 bosses today so i can buy one more. not sure if i want to play outlaw og assa in keys tbh.. was planing to buy cache since its so broken

[balmy condor]

That works too

[bleak sun]

3 chest piece in Vault zzzz

[plush delta]

is the probability of obtaining a vault weapon significantly worse this season? The 2 legion dungeons have no daggers nor do the2 WOD ones as far as I'm aware

[burnt latch]

Id imagine so

The wod dungeons also have a fuck ton of items in the loottable iirc

So that waters the chance of a good drop down even more

[subtle tundra]

@burnt latch I don't like mythos beer

[burnt latch]

what???

its so nice

[subtle tundra]

There is another beer that is in a red can that I like

Idk what's called

[burnt latch]

idk man mythos kinda goated

are u drinking it warm or what

[subtle tundra]

Nah

It's cold

But I'm sunburned so maybe

[burnt latch]

mythos is so nice

actually ill buy some for next weekend

[ebon notch]

???

[subtle tundra]

I'm very white so I get sunburned

[ebon notch]

no i knew that im just wondering why it affects your drink

[prisma berry]

i haven't seen my vault yet but what are pior? Tier set > ilvl > sylvana dagger?

i don't have 4 piece yet

[pseudo hamlet]

There's no strict "prio" for the vault.

It depends on many factors, for example - will you get(are you raiding mythic) 304-311ilvl gear soon? Then don't choose tier. It'd be waste.

The easiest, but not the perfect, answer would be: choose which sims highest.

[prisma berry]

nope im like newbie to sl i will be opening my first vault today 250 ilvl atm so you know

[balmy condor]

Then you basically just pick the highest item level

[prisma berry]

okk

[half skiff]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[pseudo hamlet]

Why people are like that... It's just +17

[spice spire]

Why is that frost mage pulling 6.5k overall

And survival at 12.7

[pseudo hamlet]

No idea, they were ~285-288 but still ...

Kinda rude

[hollow escarp]

was the key timed?

ohh, who was the player commenting on assa rogue?

[spice spire]

Sus on the damage total. But 15.7 is more than enough to time it

The rest are a little

[pseudo hamlet]

Nah, but to be honest it was almost done

[pseudo hamlet]

the hunter

[hollow escarp]

nice

dunk on them

[spice spire]

Who invited the survival hunter that lost to the sin rogue in gambit

Infinitely larger dunk

[violet jackal]

I get those comments all the time mid dungeon or end of dungeon, but it usually in a postive manner "huh assassination rogue didn't know they were actually good" kinda comments

[pseudo hamlet]

Expected +17 to be faster than +15(people usually expects higher r.io, ilvl etc. for something higher than 15) and then I was greeted with "assa lol"

[spice spire]

They’re much better this season (sin)

[hollow escarp]

yeah, had those good ones as well "playing assa for fun or maining it?"

[pseudo hamlet]

tbh I noticed that most of players that are playing "non-meta" specs are doing better(considering the same ilvl~290-299 and r.io~2-2,2k)

[vestal wren]

was the frost mage afk?

[violet jackal]

performing well on something you know vs flavor of the month wild concept i know

[pseudo hamlet]

He was constantly dying on random mechanics

[hollow escarp]

yeah, it's more likely to find a bad player on a meta class than it is to find a one tricker

[vestal wren]

oh god ^^

[spice spire]

Jokes on you I’m a bad one tricker

[hollow escarp]

one trick implies being good

[spice spire]

0 trick

[hollow escarp]

I'm sort of a some trick myself

[violet jackal]

speaking of where is NoTrickz

[spice spire]

@hollow river

[hollow escarp]

in #outlaw probably

[spice spire]

[pseudo hamlet]

people expecting that spec could do whole job

[spice spire]

I mean survival hunter rn is just la boomba

It kind of does do the whole job

[gusty mirage]

imagine thinking that it matters in a +17

their DPS matches their brain power

I had a survival hunter be like "lol why are you playing sin"

like bro

its a junkyard

who cares

[brazen zodiac]

rip be safe plz

i got nasty sun poisoning and the inflammation ended up pinching a nerve causing me to almost need surgery

get ur sun screen today u epic m+ pusher u!

[brazen zodiac]

he has joined the dark side

[violet jackal]

oof

[wooden aurora]

do fan and ct count with the mechagon ring that triggers with 3 diff spell casts on same target?

[hollow river]

@spice spire

[spice spire]

[hollow river]

Been taking a break

How’s everyone doing

[spice spire]

Doing well, glad you’re taking a break, king.

Deserved

Hope all has been well

[violet jackal]

In game doing well

[brazen zodiac]

doin good hi hi

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/sips-tea-stephen-a-smith-gif-13112895

[fallow canopy]

I must be a minus one trick

[violet jackal]

I think so

[timber socket]

any of the timewalking trinkets that are worth farming?

[strange python]

Isn't the one from vault of the wardens pretty good?

[violet jackal]

for assassination no

We were blessed this time around

[timber socket]

thank god, just reaised its wednesday aswell

[gusty mirage]

depends on your definition of pretty good

and which vault trinket you're talking about

faulty is okay, not worth farming. tirathon's is a top 5 trinket, whether it's worth the sanity of farming or not is a judgment call on your end. I didn't bother farming anything from legion TW because my mental can't handle that

better off just farming Kihra's from Iron Docks at that point

which also isn't time restricted so you don't end up running 10 vaults in one night hoping to get the better trinket

[strange python]

I meant the orb thing

[gusty mirage]

faulty is eh

don't bother

[strange python]

Maybe if he plays multiple rogue specs

Idk wasn't it good for some rogue specs?

[thorn fjord]

Just got an injector

its gonna be nice just sitting in my bag

[gusty mirage]

nah

faulty was really really good because it was salvaged fusion amp with crit during a time where we had frost shards

that got super juiced with more crit

[strange python]

Ah I didn't mean faulty

What's the shadow orb called?

That heals you

Orb of torment

[gusty mirage]

I'm not even sure if that's on our loot table

[brazen zodiac]

it isnt

[strange python]

Wth someone in my guild said it's a bis rogue trinket

[brazen zodiac]

why would they think that

did they even read it lmao

[viscid spear]

They are misinformed

[strange python]

It would seem so

[upbeat mirage]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[pure moth]

Whats the proper play on mythic council? Looking at logs i saw people using fok during 3 being up at the start. Others rupture/garrote all targets. Is there a more optimal way of playing this encounter?

[violet jackal]

focus the one your raid lead says to kill
rupturing a 2nd target is an energy gain but the damage done to a target that heals to full is not validated on logs

[balmy condor]

(still a gain)

[uneven hamlet]

it had to be done

[violet jackal]

oh no T_T

[balmy condor]

you want to gar/rupture two bosses

[pure moth]

Ok. Thanks. Meters arent impressive. Im assuming its just showing people padding vs the physical log of what it tracks.

[pulsar apex]

theotar simming higher than nadia but does that take into account the two dudes with the umbrella?

i cant see myself standing in that during many fights

[limber lion]

Yes, it assumes 100% uptime on the umbrella.

which you will not have

just play Nadja everywhere

[pulsar apex]

ok thats a no from me then dawg

ty ty

[hollow river]

same to you buddy

[vestal wren]

50k is fairly cheap

[kindred rapids]

yeah that's not much, paid more for some legendaries

[violet jackal]

If only it was division

[sly spruce]

My sim is always asking for more crit and i'm at 45% before choosing a vault ring with more crit

[burnt latch]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2FGnwtHDPgJMqfNV/#fight=2&type=summary&source=12

parsing is cool and all but have u ever parsed orange with one lego

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2FGnwtHDPgJMqfNV/#fight=5&type=summary&source=12 also decided to try some Celerity action on hungering pogchamp

[violet jackal]

link

[sly spruce]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/v324BABjf2zkf8epdULYY1

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/doomhammer/Slashemquick

[spice spire]

It’s asking for haste tho

[viscid spear]

Shh, don't mess up his narrative.

[violet jackal]

that's also a 3 boss sim aka multi target

[sly spruce]

I have no narrative anymore ^^

Yes I mostly just do M+

https://www.wowhead.com/item=142172/terestians-signet-ring?bonus=7359:8284:8765:6652:7578:3177:6646&ilvl=298&spec=259

it also offered this

[violet jackal]

how does 3 boss sim = M+ sim o.O?

[burnt latch]

This sounds like some back-alley youtuber tech

[spice spire]

I was also going to say, running a 3 target sim will be a strange tech

[sly spruce]

I'm a noob I guess

[violet jackal]

there an option for dungeonslice use that

[sly spruce]

What should I do instead?

ok

[burnt latch]

"3 things the Ravenholdt mods won't tell you about sims (YOU WONT BELIEVE WHATS #2)

[spice spire]

Yeah dungeonslice is pretty well optimized for us

If you want specific sims ie. Blowing up large pulls, you can specifically go for that

In different means

But this is your ST

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qq6scypP3ftnDXEZMnRbpZ

[sly spruce]

Ah I see! thank you

[main solar]

Another couple small alpha bugs, but probably worth waiting to see if today's build fixes them first: Logging out removes your leeching poison buff, even if deadly poison is still applied. Just need to reapply deadly to get leeching back up. Also, Deadly poison isn't added to the Poisons expandable spell button.

[brazen zodiac]

LO

[balmy condor]

#2 is that you can sim your character to find upgrades

very unknown tech

#1 is that bis lists are stupid and if you follow them you're equally stupid

by transitive property

[brazen zodiac]

oh boy

whats number 3?!?!

[balmy condor]

bis list = stupid
you = bis list
you = stupid

number 3 is that dungeonslice actually reflects a dungeon pretty well for simulations

[brazen zodiac]

hm

[balmy condor]

and 95% of people don't understand how models work in statistics

[brazen zodiac]

i thought number 3 would be to check trinket order

but dslice pog

[oak sky]

models

[balmy condor]

gotta get the basics out of the way

number 57 is trinkets are used top slot first then bottom

[brazen zodiac]

xd

and dont forget about number 6662 whisp

super important

[tough latch]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[grizzled jay]

93% of stats are made up

[limber lion]

Yeah kids, stay away from Theotar.

[outer lodge]

44 Workshop runs so far the ring... still haven't seen it. Had a dream last night I got it, woke up and realized it was just a dream

[nimble thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/sim-simyoself-gif-20048910

[nimble thicket]

Should just be a permanent pin

[pseudo hamlet]

Just got mine. Warrior decided to give me that ring because he already had the healing one for the stats and legendary on the other

[strange python]

Whispyr you're supposed to be the nice one

[grizzled jay]

But tea is so comfy

[limber lion]

Getting a single umbrella in an encounter is not

[brazen zodiac]

yeah thats not very comfy

thats the opposite of comfy, dare i say, not comfy

[grizzled jay]

But tea....

[brazen zodiac]

go make some iced tea

[balmy condor]

You thought

[strange python]

Oxi bad influence

Or maybe Germany

[brazen zodiac]

always blaming oxi

[kindred crescent]

is there anyway to go back on grimrail

we are stuck on train with 2%

[pseudo hamlet]

Pretty sure can talk with the orc at the beginning

Not sure if it teleports you back to the entrace tough

[grizzled jay]

How do you even skip 2% did you shroud an entire car

[ebon notch]

go to the beginning of the train

theres a chain next to the vendor

[ebon notch]

skip one of the affix mobs under the stairs

[dense herald]

Whisp you got alpha?

[spice spire]

he does

[brazen zodiac]

He is the alpha

[worn badger]

cant seem to find it under any of the pins. are we still running sharpening stones over oils ? sorry if this is one of the more anoying questions

[drifting cloud]

we are

[balmy condor]

I'm more of a sigma myself

[viscid spear]

I'ma sigma cats on you

[cerulean nest]

DHs absolutely flipping a lid at their tree

in a good way

[vast loom]

yeah it looks pog

[balmy condor]

realz

we stan

[vast loom]

[balmy condor]

(in a non-creepy way)

(just in an appreciative platonic way)

[whole mason]

@balmy condor is signet bugged and increasing all damage?

[balmy condor]

what

you mean signet of melandrus?

[whole mason]

heard a rumour

yes

[balmy condor]

it's doing legacy 10% auto damage to pets

but it doesn't affect rogues in any way

just doing dumb shit for like unholy

because the 10% auto damage is affecting ghouls and stuff

[whole mason]

It goes that it currently bugged and directly add to weapon dph which increases all damage done.

[balmy condor]

I haven't heard anything about that

would be very weird

because that's something it's never remotely done

[brazen zodiac]

hm

[balmy condor]

the bug with the pets is at least like the legacy effect from legion is active

but applying directly to weapon damage would be a departure from the entire effect of the ring

that seems a little extreme to me

[wooden aurora]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[grizzled jay]

https://puu.sh/JhU31/326dbd9358.png

all these connector lines are nice

realz did well

[oak sky]

as opposed to rogue trees which have no connections and a lot of linearity

[grizzled jay]

well he stopped on Rogue to work on DH, no? So when he goes back to Rogue again maybe he will learn lessons from DH for us

That's the hope at least.

[whole mason]

I've just tested, naked SS deals averagely 71 less damage than with signet on raid boss dummy

[oak sky]

yeah thats exactly what I'm hoping

[balmy condor]

I don't understand what this means

do you have logs of that

also an early @fleet anchor ping in case this is an issue

[whole mason]

I have some details screenshots

[fleet anchor]

I'm not totally sure I follow and I'm mid-raid so can't scroll super well

Although iirc the pet thing got disproven recently

[whole mason]

averagely 71 damage increased for one ring with only 16 vers no agi.

[fleet anchor]

Quite a few tests were done by SimC devs about pets the other day and there were no changes found

[whole mason]

same weapon no other equipment

I mean if you really want the log, maybe i can get one.

but it is quite clear

[fleet anchor]

Was like a 1 damage weapon used for testing or?

[balmy condor]

current theory is signet is affecting weapon damage directly

[fleet anchor]

Cause otherwise there's 5% variance on all attacks atm so it would be really hard to see without a really massive sample size

[whole mason]

could be

i can run again

[whole mason]

1dmg weapon, the difference is quite straightforward, and not in 5% variance range.

@balmy condor A log would be better?

[balmy condor]

yeah log would be better

[whole mason]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Y8G9cZph7aBPRf6t/

[halcyon raptor]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[main solar]

Very quick testing on the new alpha build, doesn't look like there's been any undocumented fixes to the bugs on the list. Shadowstep still gives invalid target, seal fate still being funky. Improved garrote doesn't give the subterfuge like cooldown effect. Small bugs but not on the list, leeching poison being removed on log out regardless of having deadly poison applied and deadly poison is not in the Poisons menu spell.

Gotta do some target dummy tests to confirm, but I feel like Envenom is hitting for some pretty low damage. Tooltip says 4,537 damage for 5 combo points, but a MFD 5 point envenom just hit this mob for 3,286.

[balmy condor]

I wouldn't trust tooltips for shit

tooltips are notoriously garbage

[main solar]

true, but in general, and this is probably mostly a tuning thing, envenom just doesn't feel like it hits for much. Like you get more out of a single mutilate, which makes sense considering all the talents that buff builders and not much at all that impacts envenom

[grizzled jay]

has Envenom ever hit for much

[strange python]

Hit dn

[winter hill]

i think envenom hit pretty hard in emerald nightmare legion? with the poison that increased damage, don't remember the name of it tho

[strange python]

I do remember envenom minmaxing to matter in mop, but so long ago I could be wrong

[winter hill]

agonizing poison

[strange python]

That whole xpac was about snapshotting giga dots anyways

[main solar]

"ever"? Sure, maybe not so much recently. Guess it depends on your preference of damage profile. But as a finisher, I feel like its pretty weak atm. Like its barely worth using at all for damage

[grizzled jay]

WoD too lol

everyone pops ring and you just giga snapshot dots hell yeah

[strange python]

I miss snapshotting a lot. Game was less laggy than dynamic too.

[grizzled jay]

issue with snapshotting is it also restricts trinket design

or else we get naked aff locks topping meters again

[strange python]

Honestly feels like parsing then was about skill and now it's just about lining up the right pull/strat

[main solar]

Probably more of personal feedback than anything. But for something that's quite literally considered a "Finisher", it should atleast feel like it does some upfront damage. More than Rupture? definitely not. But I could definitely see a world where single target crimson tempest ends up being more worthwhile than envenom again with current tuning.

[winter hill]

what was the MoP trinket that was insane with snapshotting again?

[strange python]

Yeah. I just miss there being clear ways to tell who was good or bad

Which raid mutou?

[grizzled jay]

you mean the stat trinket

[winter hill]

pretty sure it was throne of thunder

[grizzled jay]

?

[strange python]

There was one in tot and one in soo

Yeah umm

Every time I think of mop the only trinket I can name is bad juju because it was so funny

I know what you're talking about but forget the name

[grizzled jay]

oh it was Unerring Vision of Lei Shen

[hollow river]

practically nothing on alpha is tuned yet

[grizzled jay]

you'd snapshot with 100% crit

[strange python]

That tier was back when junkrat was a shitter in my guild 😉

[hollow river]

i wouldn't be worrying about the damage that things are doing just yet

[grizzled jay]

it was so good they had to make it proc specifically 40% less for Warlocks lol

[winter hill]

ah ye

[grizzled jay]

cause you would snapshot doom on it

so since doom always crit with it, it would spawn a shitload of Wild Imps

[main solar]

Im well aware, but feedback is feedback, and it very well could be something to consider for the talent trees since there's basically only a single talent that's aimed at directly buffing envenom. Like right now im just trying to get a feel of how our mob to mob gameplay feels. Kinda hard to get a good sense when improved garrote doesn't even work and there's no quick multi target bleed setup, but when I get to the point of hitting an envenom, I can't even tell if the target's hp even moves. Then some poison procs or bleed ticks happen and it chunks like 30% of their hp. Just doesn't match your key presses and intentions I guess. Maybe a better question is what is the design intent behind envenom. Is it meant to be a damage dump for combo points when your other upkeep finishers don't need to be refreshed like eviscerate is? Or does it purely exist to buff poison procs and just give a small amount of damage to make it worth being spamable outside of pandemic windows?

[grizzled jay]

The design of Envenom is as a finisher that increases your Poison damage.

The fact it does upfront damage is more a plus than a design choice.

Twist the Knife is, therefore, also a dps boost to Envenom. It isn't just Amp. Poison.

You don't even spam it outside pandemic windows, you generally want to refresh the buff within its own pandemic and pool energy otherwise.

[balmy condor]

especially with kingsbane and dtb promoting poisons the power of envenom is shifting towards the buff more than the damage

[hollow river]

well the philosophy behind envenom could be as it is now, just "a filler finisher" for when you have nothing else to do. it could become more of a buff maintenance type of thing depending on tuning though i think

yeah that's what i was thinking as well @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

it's already basically a filler finisher

[main solar]

to be fair, just because that's how it plays out right now doesn't mean thats the actual design intent, which only blizzard can really tell us.

[balmy condor]

has been for years now

if anything, the poison changes make it less of a filler finisher

and more impactful

[hollow river]

ye

[balmy condor]

but we're moving towards uptimes more than instant damage

which is the design intention

[hollow river]

if the buff uptime matters more, it becomes more important

but less about the instant dmg it provides

[balmy condor]

assassination is going to dots and buffing those dots

[hollow river]

as it should

[main solar]

while our kit is mostly dots and that SHOULD be the focus, having zero methods for more bursty upfront damage is kinda shit

[hollow river]

i love critting 25-30k envenoms don't get me wrong

but it's boring gameplay

[main solar]

Isn't that what happened with shadow priests and them getting devouring plague? they had no burst option?

[hollow river]

bursty upfront dmg just isn't the typical type of profile of a dot focused class/spec in any game

[grizzled jay]

the burst option is Exsang as a talent choice.

but no one really likes that talent

or the classic garrote garrote garrote rupture exsang vanish garrote garrote garrote ct aoe opener

based bfa

[whole mason]

not really thinking exsang is a burst tmh

[hollow river]

i feel like if they added a % dmg modifier to exsang it'd be more conderable

[whole mason]

for dots and env uptime, one question could be they are all up and then what do we do?

[main solar]

too much set up for exsang imo. But consider a random trash mob that doesn't really have enough hp to warrant full bleeds. Could be worth a quick envenom to kill it off.

[hollow river]

in my experience, if envenom buff matters, you will never have nothing to reapply

[whole mason]

it is like sin's aoe, we apply dots with IC and then what? huge energy generation and we can do quite little.

[flat ocean]

you dump energy with mut and keep EP up

[whole mason]

exactly, we dump energy with mut and do env but these are not aoe]

[hollow river]

in aoe you prob FoK

[whole mason]

FoK is fine, but also not stable for cp. sure, we still use it and we love it.

[hollow river]

cp won't matter

FoK dmg and poisons matter

[grizzled jay]

it's uncapped aoe so if we have giga energy regen you would just spam it i figure

you would press env just for EP and SnD

but just spam fok

[hollow river]

rn you FoK on 3 or more regardless of cp gen

and you actually need the cp gen rn to spread dots in aoe

[whole mason]

and what finisher? i mean that we know there are many things waiting, but also to an extreme point, we're also bound.

[main solar]

I don't think envenom should ever be worth more than a rupture, but it does feel shit if all it does is buff poisons. Makes it about as fun as pressing slice and dice, which already feels dumb lol

[oak sky]

you finish with envenom or refresh ct early @whole mason

[whole mason]

then we get to a point to refresh early, which is what wait for us at that extreme point.

[main solar]

and I hate the idea of CT ever being used in ST

[grizzled jay]

i don't mind it anymore. most other DPS have aoe somewhere in their ST rotation.

[hollow river]

refreshing early is already ok at high target counts

[main solar]

Just because classes have aoe in their ST rotation doesnt make it good design

[grizzled jay]

i don't think it's good or bad design, it's just design.

[hollow river]

imo there's no reason complaining about having IC for some packs that you will obliterate

[grizzled jay]

very neutral on it.

[whole mason]

it is ok not because that's optimal to do, from some perspective, that's what we best can do. it is different.

[hollow river]

all other packs outside of IC will be normal rotation

[main solar]

and generally they try to tune abilities out of that

[grizzled jay]

do they? DH is like 80% AoE abilities in their ST rotation

[main solar]

they were very quick to nerf FoK when we started using that over Mutilate

[grizzled jay]

Sigil, Immo, BD, EB, CN

Fel Rush/Glaive Throw

[hollow river]

almost every class uses their AoE abilties in ST

warr, dh, monk

[grizzled jay]

There's a difference between having an AoE finisher be good in ST and having an AoE builder replace your ST builder.

[hollow river]

very big difference

[grizzled jay]

Blizzard would quickly nerf Blizzard if it replaced Frostbolt

[whole mason]

using CT in ST is fine. however, i'd like to see individual CT dots for each cast from some talent.

so taht we can have some ultimate goal with energy to dump

[flat ocean]

That sounds awful

[hollow river]

o.O

[main solar]

There's also a difference between classes having cleave and using clearly AoE designed abilties take over when you have specifically designed ST abilities for those occassions

[hollow river]

horrific

[oak sky]

i would just rather envenom be better when we already have full dots tbh

that would be perfectly fine

like in aoe specifically

maybe we get a talent that modifies envenom

[main solar]

alot of those other classes with aoe in rotations you mentioned have CDs on their abilities, which drives them into needing other buttons to press

[grizzled jay]

just make a talent have Envenom "pulse" damage on any target affected by our poison as a replacement for CT imo.

the pulse damage makes it not good enough in ST (theoretically) but strong enough in AoE.

[main solar]

so a better poison bomb lol

[grizzled jay]

ye

although

DF Poison Bomb is juiced

[flat ocean]

I think this is the least of our class's problems going into dflight

[whole mason]

for this point, i was thinking about a trigger from shiv where we can pulse some ST damage into aoe

[main solar]

Personally, and I doubt they'd bother redesigning the spell at this point to do it, I think poison bomb should apply a poison dot on the target of anything that walks into the puddle, instead of just applying damage to anything in the puddle itself

that way it can synergize with things like lethal dose and you lose the whole "target moved out of the puddle" problem

[grizzled jay]

well new DF if you are 2/2 in it will proc all the time

[flat ocean]

Lethal dose is already going to be incredibly strong

[grizzled jay]

so you will have a lot more puddles in DF

like... a lot more puddles.

[whole mason]

from 4% to 10% per cp?

[main solar]

currently running around with 2 points in poison bomb on alpha this second. Its not very noticable

[grizzled jay]

correct

50% chance every Env

[whole mason]

not so much

[main solar]

they removed rupture from it

[grizzled jay]

because of IC

But we will have more energy than before

likely more Envs than before, so much more puddles

[main solar]

yes, but that also makes it not as huge of a proc rate increase as you'd think

[grizzled jay]

2.5x is a huge proc rate increase

[flat ocean]

That whole line of talents seems incredibly dead to me

pb-dtb i mean

[grizzled jay]

DTB and KB just depends on a per-fight fairly sure

[main solar]

also depends on if we actually go for seal fate with how deep it is in the tree

and our general energy regen

[grizzled jay]

KB is a burst talent, DTB line is more consistent damage

[flat ocean]

DTB means you take 2 sub par talents to get to it

unless PB does some insane dmg

[main solar]

but with higher proc rates, poison bomb also has to do less damage, which makes it not really feel as impactful. Just like how the old Legion version which was super rng low proc chance but felt amazing when it proced at the right time

[flat ocean]

dont see how its good ever

[whole mason]

KB line is complicated.

[main solar]

KB is undertuned atm

[strange python]

I like it. Gives sub something to have

[grizzled jay]

Took the 22nd ranked Altimor parse. 16 casts of Rupture, 11 casts of Envenom. If they had PB that'd be 5-6 procs. With new PB that is 5-6 procs. So the same.

But that kill took 2:30. On a slightly longer parse (3:18) it was 19-18. Current: 7-8 procs. New: 9 procs.

As a fight goes on, that gap will increase.

Especially because Rup casts are being inflated by 4pc

[winter hill]

poison bomb proc legion m+

big damage

[oak sky]

incorrect that we will have more energy than before in aoe we already overcapped at like 3 targets

[main solar]

I loved those legion M+ poison procs lol. But it definitely was a bit too rare. It was similiar to outlaw getting a full dice roll

[winter hill]

kinda true. whole time i played i just prayed for pb proc

[whole mason]

with all due respect, I think PB needs to be not a pool but player centred aoe effect. in df we have more pb but not that simple for us to spread it

[grizzled jay]

If you go back to SoD, the 22nd ranked parse on KT had 32 ruptures, 37 Envs. Current: 13-14 procs. New: 18-19.

[whole mason]

how is it calculated..?

[grizzled jay]

(Rup + Env) * 0.2
Env * 0.5

[main solar]

My point wasn't that you weren't going to get more procs. Of course you will. But its not as many more as you'd think at first glance just because rupture was also removed.

[grizzled jay]

5~ more over a typical fight is a lot imo

[whole mason]

this is not a lot more

[flat ocean]

Is thistle tea ever a real talent?

[grizzled jay]

we don't know

[flat ocean]

Also seems very bad for raid/M+

[main solar]

the way thistle tea is now, not really

[grizzled jay]

probably not

but no one has done any real anything

to know how it feels

[main solar]

we'll have to wait to see if and what they do with it

[balmy condor]

I brought this up and the answer was “ty for feedback, maybe 10.1 if it makes sense, definitely not 10.0”

[whole mason]

oh, so, it is it, right?

[main solar]

Yeah, I think I was referring to that response when thinking they wouldn't be doing any big spell redesigns

[whole mason]

design phase is done?

[grizzled jay]

design phase isn't done. still think Realz is gonna do choice nodes on CB and MfD.

[balmy condor]

Talents design phase is not done

[main solar]

Realz is the one that specifically said they wouldn't redesign poison bomb for 10.0 though

[balmy condor]

But poison bomb will not be getting redesigned for 10.0

[whole mason]

I really hope modification can be done in the mid-line of general tree.

[grizzled jay]

Link Vigor -> Tea and Deeper -> Dance ty

[main solar]

too much to focus on just 1 spell when the whole tree needs some work

[flat ocean]

WTB acrobatic strikes and imp sprint swap pls

[main solar]

especially the new NYI ones

[balmy condor]

Tree just needs some connectors

Talents themselves are great

[flat ocean]

The talents alone are cool

[main solar]

well, mostly. There's a couple here and there that could use being looked at

[balmy condor]

Like?

[flat ocean]

But yeah trees need work and i still dont like that we can take redundant talents

[grizzled jay]

like deleting Exsang

[main solar]

like Thistle tea lol

[flat ocean]

True

[balmy condor]

That’s on the radar

[flat ocean]

TT seems like a pvp talent

[balmy condor]

Balancing has not happened

[flat ocean]

but its so deep in a pve line

[balmy condor]

So if it’s week, it will get changed

[whole mason]

Replace deadened nerves with recuperator, put acrobatic at recuperator's position, lift ER to acrobatic's place, lift RC one row up, gives a weapon mastery as capstone.

[main solar]

Yeah, I'm mostly agreeing. like 90% of the individual talents are great, but there could be a few here and there that need adjusting or replacing if they don't work out well.

[grizzled jay]

Tea just seems bad because it's on the Assassination "line" when Assassination isn't going to have Energy issues (assumed) in ST. And because Envenom isn't some big booming finisher it feels weak.

Compare that to Outlaw that, with Dispatcher, gets huge value out of Tea being able to quickly burn through them all to get these massive Dispatches.

[winter hill]

would thistle be decent if it refilled all your energy, that way it synergises with vigor more? idk just spitballing

[balmy condor]

The problem with thistle is that it’s jank garbage

Not that it refreshes X energy

[winter hill]

wait is thistle on the gcd?

[whole mason]

why?

[balmy condor]

It reads like a burst cd but all your cooldowns flood you with energy

[main solar]

I had the thought that ER feels really out of place. Sure, it doesn't need to be as great for assassination and could just be an outlaw and sub option. BUT, outlaw and sub both have their own "empowered CP" talent in their spec trees already

[balmy condor]

What’s the fucking point of that

[flat ocean]

@winter hill probably not

[main solar]

so seems redundant?

[oak sky]

inherently useless in aoe, also only useless inside cds

theres no reason to go anything but dance ever

er sucks for us

[balmy condor]

You would currently use thistle tea between cooldowns on like a shiv window

[main solar]

Shadow dance just seems too strong imo, and personal preference, but not sure it should even be outside of sub's spec tree. Atleast not while it also gives the 10% flat damage amp

I could maybe see it working more as a pure psuedo vanish to give subterfuge/nightstalker effects

[whole mason]

this is not tea's fault, but what we discussed for a while before. what to do with energy

[oak sky]

i wish our class tree had way more mobility than it does

[main solar]

but right now it just feels like its a pure damage amp buff (which honestly, nightstalker on its own already does)

[oak sky]

it just feels so bad to be forced to path deep into different parts of the tree with no flexibility

[main solar]

cheat death's position there is also annoying. Feel likes it atleast needs connectors to be reached from any of the 3 paths and not be a forced right path

[flat ocean]

How does CB work with garrote/rupture? 100% crit for duration or just 1st tick?

[whole mason]

if we take blindside, we're going to have a lot of free stuff and more energy waiting for dumping.

[main solar]

whole duration

that is if tunning doesnt require it to be nerfed

[flat ocean]

Dance line is just way to strong compared to others atm

[oak sky]

i kinda wish our tree was fully restructured with cheat as a "middle capstone" type of node

[grizzled jay]

does Nightstalker still snapshot in DF

[flat ocean]

It should

Mostly because I can't see them bothering to change it unless it causes balance problems

[balmy condor]

I mean it is tea’s fault though. It gives energy when none is needed

[balmy condor]

Yes

[grizzled jay]

hmm interesting

vanish rupture garr garr gaming

[flat ocean]

We gunna have some broken openers

[main solar]

openers? try every time we use shadow dance 😛

[grizzled jay]

wait that means you can IC vanish rupture

and snapshot spread a Nightstalker rupture.

hell yeah

[balmy condor]

You would want to snapshot a cold blood vanish garrote

But similar idea yes

[whole mason]

IC vanish CB rup?

[balmy condor]

Garrote

[main solar]

Just seems too bustedly good imo

[flat ocean]

Garrote will be much stronger based off talents atm

[whole mason]

if CB goes all crit with rup, how about KB?

[balmy condor]

KB is bugged to shit atm but it should

[grizzled jay]

i thought CB critting bloods was still like up in the air and slightly leaning no?

[balmy condor]

CB works on all bleeds atm

[flat ocean]

If you could CB KB with DTB then KB would be the hardest hitting ability in game probably

[whole mason]

too many buttons

[balmy condor]

You can’t take KB and DtB at the same time

[grizzled jay]

that's why Realz has talked about adding choice passive options to MfD and CB

cause of incoming hotbar bloat

[balmy condor]

Physically impossible, the tree makes sure of it

[flat ocean]

I know im just saying if you could that would be insane

[main solar]

From my understanding it was leaning towards yes, but with the caveat that it wasn't 100% decided on and realz's hand could be forced on that decision based on tuning and such.

[balmy condor]

Try coming up with an opener that uses kingsbane sepsis exsang mfd and cold blood, make it fight with Deathmark

I dare you

Your brain will melt

[flat ocean]

Ill do it for you whispyr

Why sepsis though

[balmy condor]

You want burst or nah

[misty holly]

Having strong synergy between 2 of the 3 end nodes seems bad, as it would it too required to grab them both and limit any choice to almost none.

[flat ocean]

just to make it more complex?

[main solar]

Im not convinced MFD/CB needs a choice node, just need to be moved. Maybe swapped with Vigor/Deeper Strat

[flat ocean]

or is it actually better than SBS

[balmy condor]

It’s more burst

Who knows what’s better dps

[oak sky]

cb could be removed and nothing of value would be lost

[flat ocean]

kk

[main solar]

That way its a choice to go down and pick them, rather than a forced choice

[flat ocean]

I'll give it my best shot soon

[grizzled jay]

pretty sure like every other spec in the game has synergy between their capstones lol

[oak sky]

design difference, we're forced into only taking one so it doesnt matter

[main solar]

Honestly true. There's some nostalgia to it, but it doesn't feel impactful enough to justify another button

[grizzled jay]

well he was speaking generally so i was too.

[oak sky]

fuck your nostalgia this isnt classic

[grizzled jay]

don't think the problem is "having capstones synergize is bad". it's more "DTB and KB would break Sin"

[oak sky]

i still think we should have MA in the class tree instead of cold blood

[oak sky]

tbf theres an easy fix of just making the capstones not interact but yeah

im sure theres a way they could force it to not be op but from what realz says he likes clarity based on abilities so i doubt that would happen

so like if something seems like it would interact it will

[balmy condor]

Best I could come up with is gar snd gar/mut rup kingsbane sepsis envenom shiv Deathmark vanish cb gar rupture exsang mfd envenom

Then just mut envenom spam, refresh shiv when it falls off, snapshot bleeds at the end of Deathmark

But it’s a mess and I have no clue where to cold blood

Vanish cb gar probably

[main solar]

KB + DTB was TOO strong. Maybe there's an argument for a choice node so that it doesn't end up impacting and forcing changes to other nodes/paths in the tree though.

[whole mason]

1cp snd?

[oak sky]

3cp

if shrouded suff

[whole mason]

we take ss for ST?

[oak sky]

maybe

[misty holly]

Dude, DTB/Kingsbane choice node in the middle and 500% Tiny Toxic Blade back to capstone status?

[grizzled jay]

SS competes with Blindside, so just depends which one is better.

DTB and KB are different. Don't want them as a choice node.

[flat ocean]

@balmy condor pretty reasonable and im seeing why it makes the brain melt xD

[oak sky]

you can have both ss and blindside

if you dont go ttk or amp

[balmy condor]

It assume ss yes

[oak sky]

its kinda a 4 man competition

[balmy condor]

Oh I forgot exsang, would obviously do that after the vanish cb gar rupture then exsang mfd envenom

[grizzled jay]

Depends on PB but yeah

[balmy condor]

Let me add those two

[grizzled jay]

My going spec is KB with PB + SS.

or DTB + TTB

[oak sky]

1 point pb or what

[grizzled jay]

2

[oak sky]

do you not have sepsis then

[main solar]

Maybe something other than TTB, but something like that sure.

[oak sky]

oh you skipped atrophic didnt you

[grizzled jay]

of course

[oak sky]

so we arent doing practical builds now are we

[grizzled jay]

what do you mean?

i just make the other rogue go atro

[misty holly]

Just recruit a second sin rogue and make them go atrophic.

[whole mason]

for me, blindside

[winter hill]

i mean we don't know what fights are like. so on certain fights execute might be too insane not to go blindside

guess we will see

[grizzled jay]

but also 1pt PB might just be good too. we'll have to wait for le sims ™️

[main solar]

Im fully convinced Atrophic Poison is still NYI because they're not even sure they're going to be keeping it, and a bunch of other new raid buffs, so they're holding off on even spending time coding it.

[oak sky]

yeah they literally said that

[grizzled jay]

its a weird talent to me cause it's clearly just for raid. in M+, numbing is still more DR since most of the threats in M+ to the tank are melee attacks and in PvP it's still Crippling.

[main solar]

You could split Dashing Scoundrel into 2 different talents. One that givesthe poison crits generating energy, and the other making envenom increasing poison crit chance

that way you dont have the weird first point being worth so much more

[grizzled jay]

should i show Typh my juiced env build

[oak sky]

i would be a fan of it getting tossed in the class tree so we don't give up throughput for it and then also making it not stack with devo aura or something

[grizzled jay]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1003163204098199552/unknown.png

[oak sky]

i would rather have overlap design wise

[main solar]

gross

[balmy condor]

delete this instantly

[grizzled jay]

juiced envs are the future

[balmy condor]

what kind of fucking abomination is that

[main solar]

I 2nd whispyr

[whole mason]

So versatile!

[grizzled jay]

you press ER and spend it with maxed Amp Poisons

[oak sky]

i'm still probably expecting amp to be good in pure st

[grizzled jay]

and in execute you just get turbo ambushes from blindside + dance and then you just keep sending juiced envs

good build

[oak sky]

if only envenom got buffed by zoldyck

[whole mason]

please look at it carefully; zoldyck is not even selected.

[oak sky]

true

[whole mason]

I think you should at least select DS so that every minute you do not waste cp in dance?

[flat ocean]

Does the second garrote from deathmark recieve pandemic if you cast garrote again?

[main solar]

currently its bugged and not even applying a 2nd garrote, so can't test it.

[flat ocean]

Ok I'll just assume it doesnt for now

Does Sepsis buff garrote with stealth stuff or no?

@balmy condor something like this maybe

[sweet sphinx]

hey, question. At what point do the ilvl outweigh the legendary Powers?

[main solar]

Probably never, but you can always just sim it.

[sweet sphinx]

thanks

[flat ocean]

There are too many things to try optimize in opener

Kind of insane

In a cool way

[main solar]

well maybe not "never", but not in any ilvl range you can obtain for the remainder of SL

[sweet sphinx]

heard someone say that 304 is better than 291 unity because ilvl is better

didnt sound right

[flat ocean]

I should also note I'm using SS instead of atrophic for this

[balmy condor]

Seems reasonable

[balmy condor]

They’re high on crack rocks

Maybe 604

I’m actually interested now

Let’s find oht

[sweet sphinx]

also, im new to raiding and dont really have that much "game knowledge", any general advice on how to do more consistent damage in raid content? or can you recommend a good source for stuff like that

[flat ocean]

Warcraft logs

[balmy condor]

okay I severely underestimated how hard ilvl scales

that's 1500 agi

[vestal wren]

600 ilevel, the man of the future

[balmy condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iFrGmuiCdKwTcAfKtsg2LX

anyways

if you manage to get ilvl 400 wrists

feel free to drop unity

[sweet sphinx]

kek

[balmy condor]

this might be hella too much at once but you want to be able to compare yourself on https://www.warcraftlogs.com/. This is essentially your raiding "resume" if you want to eventually get into mythic guilds and stuff. You can poke around but there's guides all over the place on the basics of it. Since I'm a wowhead writer and a complete sellout shill cuck of a human, I'm going to direct you to wowhead to get some sick ad revenue out of your unwilling soul https://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-warcraft-logs-to-improve-character-performance. That guide should get you the basics.

If you're looking to do m+, you need to know https://raider.io/. The scores are all in-game nowadays, but you can still look people up on this and see some information about keys ran with setups etc, good stuff. (you can also use logs for m+)

Throwing it back to raiding, there's a lot of other really nice tools that I recommend. https://lorrgs.io/ will tell you when the best parses on a fight are using their cooldowns in a neat vertical stack, helps for planning out on complex fights.

A must for anyone doing any pve is a basic understanding of raidbots and it's many features. This optimizes your gear but also your soulbinds, talents, conduits, legendaries, etc etc etc. It's a very powerful tool that gives almost endless information but you don't really need to go that deep. There's another guide for that here to extract more AdSense: https://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-raidbots-sims-stat-weights

On the left of that there's a navigation for some other things. I want to point out that wowanalyzer for rogues is dogshit and not supported. It'll tell you some bare basics but I wouldn't even trust it to shit on the carpet like a dog past that.

Addon wise you want to have at least the bare minimum of a boss mod (deadlybossmods and bigwigs are both fine, I personally prefer bigwigs), details as a combat meter, can give you some instant feedback on what you died to, who did the most damage to a target, your top damage sources and to what targets, etc. And the last being a solid set of weakauras to both track your rotation, as well as give you heads up info on some more complicated boss mechanics. There are weakauras for basically every fight, and pretty much everyone uses them.

From that point on, I'm going to self shill, the wowhead guides for all the rogue specs are well written, such as this beautiful guide https://www.wowhead.com/guides/assassination-rogue-shadowlands-season-4-guide. They're written by the top theorycrafters and brightest minds in here, solid picks. If you're trying to get another extra gain, the FaQ channels we have are well maintained and have basically everything anyone would ever need. If there's something bleeding edge that needs instant addressing, usually that ends up in the pins so it's worth popping your head in to see if pins got updated every now and then.

Aside from that, just get comfortable with your specs rotation, know the mechanics before you enter the fight, and don't stand in the fire, gg you're now a fully competent raider

[subtle tundra]

Wall

Didn't read

[balmy condor]

Not meant for you, you’re already a chad

[gusty mirage]

he's acting like we didn't see that

[balmy condor]

Proof?

[gusty mirage]

that varas is shitting?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[gusty mirage]

check the audit logs

oh wait, no I get what you mean

@subtle tundra proof?

[subtle tundra]

Yes!!

[sweet sphinx]

wow thanks! im 292 ilvl now and have been able to do heroic raids but i seem to do less dmg than i should. and im currently not using any weakaura for tracking rotations, i just track all that in my head. I will check out the links

[subtle tundra]

The smell.

[balmy condor]

I cant smell 10,000 km sorry

[balmy condor]

Kinda psychotic that you track it in your head but I respect it

[sweet sphinx]

i always respect a good sellout shill cuck of a human

[balmy condor]

[gusty mirage]

you're already more dedicated than 90% of mythic raiders

[sweet sphinx]

i have add/adhd and i get super distracted by a bunch of things in the middle of my screen

and ill probably end up just looking at the rotation thingy and "stand in the fire"

[balmy condor]

Make a weakaura that makes your entire screen black when you stand in bad

You’ll know when you’re in bad

[sweet sphinx]

lmao

need to clip this sound to a weakaura https://youtu.be/dTtzfGKldUk?t=93

"derek! Derek quick man, the fire is right under you! its gonna burn you man!"

[balmy condor]

[sweet sphinx]

i may or may not relate to derek on a sppiritual level

[distant plinth]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[umbral rapids]

MVP Whispyr

[sweet sphinx]

trying to re learn my rotations, didnt know about snapshotting

gigachad whispyr

makin me improve myself n shiz

[pseudo hamlet]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/49rBXLpBipJtxJjGeqoFt6
EoC(304) + Kihra(298) > Scars(298) + EoC(304)/Kihra(298)/Chain(291)

OK FALSE ALARM(forgot to use the second sylvanas dagger)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aSinyzhpibd3oanmw9KU5q

[limber lion]

nut.

[sweet sphinx]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/u95BEufZ9TpdBncMi8uDqB

😮

[limber lion]

You should have your highest item level weapon in your main hand.

Might wanna swap them around.

Also why are you simming without any buffs/consumables?

Kinda defeats the purpose. If you want to sim for a target dummy encounter, just sim Target Dummy instead of Patchwork.

Dauntless Duelist is generally the better choice as well, but that's kinda minimal.

[sweet sphinx]

oh

[limber lion]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bLRbZw5mfMj27LSdTy5YY6

[sweet sphinx]

thanks

[plush delta]

can someone please help explain how warcraft logs calculates DPS for mythic+ keys in the 'logs' leaderboard? I'm assuming it's not a direct comparison to what details shows as overall damage looks a lot lower for the top keys

[spice spire]

It takes dps total.
So like, you did 17 million in 35 minutes, it legitimately just divides 17000000 by 21000 (number of seconds in 35 minutes)

If you go to your damage tab, you can see active %, hover it and you should see a number closer to what details listed