assassination

[solid mica]

Do all our bleeds proc zap in junkyard?

[limber lion]

All damage does

it has a some sort of an icd though so it can't high roll to the moon

it is hasted though, so you want the haste buff from the affix

[pearl mauve]

everything is top notch

[limber lion]

No clue, I've done multiple docks and everything was fine.

[strange python]

Does sepsis ending give MA? I seem to remember subter was the play for that extra garrote

[limber lion]

No and it never has

And it does not proc subterfuge either

and never has

You only use it for Ambush

[limber lion]

Or well, technically it did vanish you in the ptr giving you all stealth benefits, but that was soon reworked

never made it into the live game

[pearl mauve]

could not do 4 garrots in a row from stealth, energy starved after first

[balmy condor]

so you weren't running subterfuge or lagging

[pearl mauve]

with subterfuge

25ms

[balmy condor]

do you have logs, vods, anything?

[pearl mauve]

ill fix, 2sec

[spice spire]

It was in keys for the extra silence that garrote provided, but it was never subterfuged. Otherwise it’s an ambush angle

[pearl mauve]

can i link log here?

[vestal wren]

you can do that

[pearl mauve]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/arLTbWzpQZ2NnDd7/#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=5

[balmy condor]

no poisons

[pearl mauve]

wth, stupid mistake.

[fleet whale]

I did the first boss of Mechagon workshop without poisons lol

was wondering why the hell my damage was so low lol

[night delta]

you did not wonder why you needed 5 seconds for energy to go up again ?

[limber lion]

lol.

[fleet whale]

I was paying too much attention to dodging stuff

[balmy condor]

36 minutes with no poisons is quite impressive tbh

[night delta]

good point

[fleet whale]

after the boss died though i put on the poisons

[distant mesa]

I have a weak aura that I made if Poisons are <15m Apply them

[night delta]

I'm so accustomed to my tempo that I instantly feel something's no right if I have no poisons

[pearl mauve]

changed my poison alert on jailer for numbing/crip. didnt want to fudge cc guys. Fixing it now ❤️ ty peeps

[viscid spear]

Had a fellow dps complain that the tank wasn't dragging the Gnomercy to the hammers

[night delta]

also my first run this season lol

[fleet whale]

i mean it has been a while lol

[night delta]

except it was the tank actually not dragging the bot to the hammers

[viscid spear]

Were you in my group, lol

[limber lion]

Also for all the Sludge homies

[spice spire]

[limber lion]

If you're lucky enough to have 2 stat trinkets, it could very well be worth it to send one on pull, second on first pillar with sepsis/vend, and then the other one on with sepsis again on 3rd or 4th pillar

So for example Kihra's on pull, First Sigil on 1st pillar and Kihra's on 3rd pillar with Sepsis

probs just depends a lot on how fast your guild kills it

our guild killed it around 5 minutes

right after 4th

[night delta]

Is there a strong 1-min CD trinket to pair up with each vendetta/flag ?

[limber lion]

Not really.

Kihra's Adrenaline Injector is a good one, but that's 2 minutes.

[fleet whale]

if shrine of the storm was chosen galecaller's boon would've been one lol

[limber lion]

Thank god it wasn't, not sure if anyone liked that dungeon

getting flashbacks to all the tentacles

[night delta]

good old days

[subtle tundra]

"yes rogue stop all those mobs 1 by 1 cast by cast"

[fleet whale]

I mean the players did vote for grimrail depot

so it wouldn't have surprised me if they voted for shrine too

[subtle tundra]

freehold

[night delta]

mah, the real meme dungeons were Tol'Dagor and Waycrest Manor

with the bugged out walls and ceilings

[distant mesa]

naw

its this place

fuck this boss

[night delta]

the real shame is that the GARROTE TRINKET is bad for assassination

(and overall)

[solid mica]

I played depot for the first time yesterday, such a troll dungeon lol

[night delta]

can't wait for storming week on grimrail lol

[solid mica]

Spiteful sanguine

Get ready

[night delta]

all melees dipping out as week starts

[solid mica]

"We now venture from sanguine depths, where the camera is in your mouth, all the way down to your stomach...welcome to grimrail depot"

[fleet whale]

The one thing i don't miss about BFA was all the non-rogues thinking that rogues unironically had the best utility due to shroud

[ebon notch]

this isnt that bad tbh

trap the bad mobs

murder the others

then lust and shit

[night delta]

1 or 2 more combat potions per run tough

definitely pog

[distant mesa]

we had been on that boss since hte timer was at 27m

[ebon notch]

which bosses did you trap

[fleet whale]

don't worry moroes was a pug breaker back in TBC too

[distant mesa]

or soory 35m

and all but main, pulling them 1 at a time

[ebon notch]

we pulled the 2 chicks and just melted them

[night delta]

watch out for Shadowfang Keep M+ in Dragonflight season 2

[distant mesa]

wanna go that route? Old Scholo M+

[subtle tundra]

bro this is lfr kill timer

LOL

[night delta]

Well, it's LFR

I got a 1'20 kill timer on NM Hungering Destroyer due to some kind of scaling bug yesterday

[subtle tundra]

yea, cause it was bugged

this was correct hp

[night delta]

weirdly Shriekwing and Altimor were completely fine, with perfectly normal kill timers

and mostly all bosses

[distant mesa]

AE feels sad as venthyr here

cant do anything compared to NcL

[vast loom]

yeah necro is def the choice for aoe

i just play outlaw in dungeons tho

[distant mesa]

can't figure it out in M+

[vast loom]

yeah sin is actually hard to do well with in dungeons

requires Cev robot brain

[distant mesa]

i get 8-11k as NcL

6-7k as Venthyr

overalls

[vast loom]

varas is one of the few sin rogues who pushed atleast a little bit as venthyr

i mean

as sin

idk what build he went

[distant mesa]

would there be a way to go look that up?

[zinc frost]

MFD as venth in keys is good if you make use of resets etc

[strange python]

Can you upgrade lfr gear with these cyphers too?

[night delta]

I think so yeah

[echo geyser]

Subterfuge mfd CT, theres nothing else rly to pick lmao

I think venthyr raid is same as m+ setup

maybe im wrong about mfd not sure

Cev is sin gamer

[vast loom]

https://raider.io/characters/eu/draenor/Váras#season=season-sl-3

this is vara'

you can click on his sin stuff

[echo geyser]

These are not always reliable

[subtle tundra]

bro! i bursted 50k on huntsman

felt nice

[vast loom]

true

[balmy condor]

they are with the checkmark though right

if it's verified

[vast loom]

Varas has like 10 differnt ones to choose from for each key

so you can prob draw some conclusions

[subtle tundra]

hi

[echo geyser]

He played necro sin in gambit?

[distant mesa]

he's using same Necro setup I have, except the Covenant's Soulbind is different

[subtle tundra]

needed for r1 assa

[distant mesa]

Hermir feels more bursty to me

[echo geyser]

Marileth is da wae for m+

[spice spire]

He’s incredibly based for it too

[echo geyser]

[spice spire]

Necro sim

[distant mesa]

why, Kevin ooze for 6% damage or heirmir crit amp for 15k SBS's

[echo geyser]

Dont know what this checkmark is from, is it some premium users?

[limber lion]

I did 120k :)

get fucked

kid

just kidding you did well

[subtle tundra]

waaat

[limber lion]

love to see some pumpage

[subtle tundra]

i bursted like 45k just now on hungering

poggers

[limber lion]

Let's goooo

big numbers for a big dick man

[echo geyser]

In m+ environment u can outpeform sims easily due to kevin uptime and depending on dungeon, also fleshcraft buffs

In gambit u can get giant buff too, which is physical dmg

[subtle tundra]

i was not playing kevin cause he ninja pulls in gambit

he a baddie

[echo geyser]

No wo anymore yikes

Cant stealth kevin big oof

[echo geyser]

Do u have my omega kevin macro?

[subtle tundra]

no

i only click him

[echo geyser]

Sec

[subtle tundra]

cause he deserves to be touched!

[echo geyser]

#showtooltip
/cast Fleshcraft
/tar Kevin's Oozeling
/run if GetRaidTargetIndex("target") == nil then SetRaidTarget("target", 4) end
/targetlasttarget
Casts Fleshcraft and Marks Kevin with Green so u can see his location (can body pull etc)

Enjoy

[spice spire]

Mf really rping as the deep rn

[echo geyser]

I macro'd it to my fleshcraft since i use on cd anyways can just click the bind to mark him

You can change the number if u dont want green marker

I got a lot of experience with kevin ninja pulling so decided to get a macro to mark him

[loud light]

the verified check is from running the raider.io client and having live tracking on

[balmy condor]

from using the app I think

[loud light]

so it's uploading straight to them instead of using armory APIs afterward

[echo geyser]

Ah i ran with someone using that last time i played keys, noticed the runs were uploaded insta

need io injection straight into the veins quick

[distant mesa]

do you Venthyr or Necro in Raid?

[subtle tundra]

venthyr on every fight maybe slg necro

probably, actually

actually, for sure

[echo geyser]

Emeni juice up maybe

Flashback

Maybe back then marileth was worse

[limber lion]

Necro sks, council, slg

Fae sludge

Venth others

[distant mesa]

if only there was a covenant changer at the start of the boss'es

[limber lion]

If only you could change your covenant just from the spell book

[echo geyser]

What u think about the soulbind for necro? Always marileth or nah

maybe they all good

[spice spire]

Emeni is hopium OD

[limber lion]

Heirmir gang

[spice spire]

Bless up

Gemstone enjoyers

[distant mesa]

same

[echo geyser]

thought marileth could be good for the add spawn bosses

My sin game is not strong

[spice spire]

Marileth probably is

Legends say that if you message whispyr with a potential LBE gain, he’ll kill you irl

[gloomy ridge]

bruh.. wtf is this shit?

1 stat?!

[warm parcel]

yea man

[night delta]

well, it's for the trashmaster

[warm parcel]

insane ol cloak

[echo geyser]

Still has appropriate amount of stats right?

Or less than normal

[steel ridge]

Its pretty nice, got it aswell

[warm parcel]

seems normal to me

mine has 106

[echo geyser]

Nice

[misty holly]

BIS for pvp with all that vers?

[gloomy ridge]

i suppose

[distant mesa]

replace the battery is my guess?

[gusty mirage]

sim it, but probably yea

[distant mesa]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8k9nFGieZiuYuoWZMdtK9N

damn

double on use

[grizzled jay]

good for vers stackers

[grizzled jay]

remote guidance is worse than something 30 ilvls below it? damn it really has been neutered cause of pvp lol

[distant mesa]

awe

bots aren't broke though

[strange python]

What cov for council...

Part of me wonders if waiters are sbs bait

[toxic verge]

Guys, do you feel a diference in energy regen during vendetta inside Fated Raids?

[kindred rapids]

Feels great

[oak sky]

Some of the affixrs can make it faster

Otherwise its the same

[ebon lichen]

i know secondary stats are different for everyone, but just curious what crit/haste % yall are at?

[bleak eagle]

This might be a dumb question but shouldi wait a bit for my opener on mythic council

attendant seems to come up right when i get vendetta off

[limber lion]

No just send it

[bleak eagle]

Thank you

[upper portal]

Does vendetta affect SBS dot ticks?

[limber lion]

Yes

[upper portal]

Thanks mate

[strange python]

Council can suck my nuts

[strange python]

304 hateful lesgo

[limber lion]

Sheesh

Grats

[oak sky]

I got no loot on mythic

(Despairge)

I also got no good logs

[strange python]

Chain ain't bis tho

[strange python]

How many bosses? I got the fucking luck, 304 chest (rip Lego...unless sub), shitty artificer ring (unless sub), chain

Incoming no dagger next week to balance it out

[oak sky]

5

I got 2 heroic pieces tho so not giga doomed

[steel ridge]

The outlaw dreamloot

[empty hinge]

Is necro the best covenant in m+ or is ventyr better

[balmy condor]

Venth typically

Necro does more aoe

But going from like 10k to 15k aoe when the hunter and the lock are doing 7 million

Not really impressive

[torn atlas]

I think the only people you can impress while playing sin in keys, is other sin players.

Masochists every one of us

[blazing totem]

@balmy condor what is the consensus on dragonflight assa talent tree after the changes? are we still pathing the exact same?

I checked pins but found only pictures of the pre-changed talent trees

[celest holly]

best stat to pick for m+? 🙂 mastery?

[subtle tundra]

Sim. All stats are good. You need quite a bit of crit.

[violet jackal]

I impress people all the time playing assassintion in keys

[subtle tundra]

Participation awards don't count

[balmy condor]

yeh pretty much the same thing, you either full left for single target or full right for aoe

I've been incredibly busy with season 4 updates and vacation things

so no time to update yet

[violet jackal]

I don't think it's participation award, most likely boss and prioty mob damage, wouldn't know don't use meters

[blazing totem]

of course, that is completely reasonable, I didn't mean to push you or anything. I was just curious, thank you!

[subtle tundra]

Ah, I respect a person who doesn't want the truth

[balmy condor]

yeah I gotchu just wanted to explain :P

[strange python]

I thought outlaw wanted cache and amp

[gusty mirage]

Crit. Mastery is arguably the worst because it gives rating and not percentage. Which means the buff is affected by DR

[steel ridge]

chain slaps aswell tho

[grizzled jay]

Whispyr is forgetting the ER full send juiced Env build I created

[viscid spear]

Forcefully, perhaps

[marble hemlock]

No, we just all wanted to do you the favor of not mentioning it, as its the equivalent of being kind enough to not mention that time you peed your pants.

[grizzled jay]

Seli mad we'll have to play ER once Amp gets buffed

[marble hemlock]

"we"

just cause you and i were born on the same day, doesnt make your ideas any less worth ridiculing

[grizzled jay]

It makes them worth celebrating

[viscid spear]

Twins separated at birth

[grizzled jay]

No coincidence we both play Sin Rogue

[marble hemlock]

There's literally been 3y between us

[vast loom]

3 yards is pretty close i think

[viscid spear]

Sometimes you need to bake for a bit longer

[marble hemlock]

Some people are too baked

[dense herald]

Seli/oxi/whisp - what are your current takes on the amount of freedom in DF assa talents?
I feel like too much freedom can just lead to ‘neither here nor there’ builds of just picking random talents that sim the best
I quite like the idea of 3 seperate paths with 3 different builds and I like that you can only choose one capstone because it means it can be more meaningful and powerful
I’ve seen some feedback from people that they want more feedback and possibly want to be able to pick between dtb and kingsbane

[gusty mirage]

I’m a fan of the idea of 3 paths, each with a strong capstone. I just hope that they’re tuned properly so that there some variety in what we can play. Because as an example, going deep into the left side for kingsbane and having it just be significantly worse than DTB would be kinda lame

[balmy condor]

the capstone choice is fine

you're just locked into a whole chain of talents to get there

if you're like "oh I want kingsbane"

that auto-picks about 20 points for you on the spot

[gusty mirage]

I’d be okay with transforming the last row into a choice node if it means buffing the paths to it

Eliminates the worry of taking 2 capstones

And it would give us more room to play with the trees

[balmy condor]

I'm okay with that too, I just want there to be a choice at all points in the tree

and not just at the bottom

and right now you're locked into a path very early

[gusty mirage]

Yeah feeling stuck to one path does feel kinda bad

[dense herald]

Yeah but kingsbane aside, the chain of talents that get there are centred around that ‘execute’ ‘builder damage’ type playstyle
I wouldn’t wanna cross over too much into the middle tree as then you kinda have this half poison half builder build that kinda just doesn’t feel like it’d play nice and double down on strengths

[twilit hollow]

Auto picking entire linear paths to play a capstone would feel awful

[balmy condor]

well that's basically where we are atm

[twilit hollow]

Ik 🙂

It feels bad

But I enjoy pain

[gusty mirage]

Maybe that could be alleviated with some connectors like outlaw has? Their tree seems a lot more forgiving

[twilit hollow]

I click outlaw channel after all

[balmy condor]

the chain of talents that get to kingsbane might be cenetered around a playstyle but at the end of the day that's not a choice you're making

you go lethal dose, then you go down left side until you hit kingsbane

and you have maybe 3 points left after that

[gusty mirage]

Yeah it’s a very linear approach

[balmy condor]

the idea is to make the trees more of a choice than before

and right now there's probably even less choice than before

[dense herald]

I suppose trees can either just go full freedom mode, or they can have two or 3 distinct and more linear pathways. All subjective but I’d personally prefer to go all left side or all middle depending on if I needed an execute centric build vs a consistent damage build. That way they can make those builds enjoyable and different

[balmy condor]

in raids you will pick one of 2 capstones, travel to them, pick up stuff on the right side, then place 3-4 points

that's 5, maybe 6 choices your making

rather than the 7 you have now

[dense herald]

Hasn’t assa just been the exact same talents all season tho?

[balmy condor]

yeah, and?

[gusty mirage]

I like areas of the tree having niches, but I also wish there was some freedom of movement between the three paths. Idk how that would be accomplished without leaving the tree susceptible to some 5head way of getting to 2 capstones

[dense herald]

Well 3 builds better than what we currently have

[balmy condor]

you have 3 builds right now

necro, fae, venthyr

technically kyrian but it's so awful I'm not gonna count it

venthyr is "the exact same talents all season"

but what's to stop kingsbane from being that next expansion

or dragon tempered

[violet jackal]

#KyrianLivesDon'tMatter

[balmy condor]

necro exists and is a choice and is worse than the other option

[dense herald]

Different damage patterns ideally but yeah that’s a fair point

[balmy condor]

the same way any other build on the 10.0 tree is a choice and is worse

you can play subterfuge right now

NS+CT is technically still okay as well

you have plenty of choice in how to play

the 10.0 tree doesn't have that

[hollow river]

Definitely think there should be more horizontal pathing

[balmy condor]

it locks you into 2 playstyles, similar to venthyr/necro

and then you drop some adjacent points into passives

[hollow river]

And maybe just a lockout where you can’t pick both DTB and kingsbane

[balmy condor]

on the current talent tree those would be things like EP or Alacrity

functionally they accomplish the same thing

except one forces you to make a choice 7 times

and the other forces you to make a single choice, and then allocate a couple of extra points on top

[hollow river]

Could you not just make a line from Zoldycks diagonally to DTB and vice versa

While adding a rule that you can’t spec into both capstones

[dense herald]

I think a capstone should solidify a build and really hammer home why you pathed a certain way. Making them more easily lockable just doesn’t sit well with me idk

[balmy condor]

And no one is disagreeing with that

I’m just pointing out that currently a capstone does not “solidify” a build, it is the build

You have no choice in the nodes that come before the capstone

The capstone picks that for you

I want there to be choices BEFORE the capstone

Not 20 points of just taking whatever is along the path regardless of If I want it or not

Do I want venom rush? Vicious venom? Tiny toxic? Zoldyck?

Maybe I don’t

But I have to take them

There is no choice not to

[dense herald]

So more choice of situational talents, but keeping those talents relevant to the 3 builds that they currently have going

[balmy condor]

Maybe execute is trash, but the burst from kingsbane is still good, like sludgefist with pillars

Why should I be forced into zold for that

The design philosophy is being able to build a tree specific to how you want to play and what you’re playing

And right now you have “execute and kingsbane” or “sustain and dtb” or “mythic+”

Those are the choices you have

Whatever is above those capstones is pretty irrelevant right now

They’re a means to an end

[dense herald]

Yeah makes sense

[vast loom]

weekly reminder of my sick idea of a 3x choice node for our capstones 🙂

(ic inside the choice node)

[balmy condor]

I don’t actually think that fixes much

It allows you to path down other sides, which is better

But you still are just auto-pathing

You just added more paths to auto-path down

If you added like 2 connectors to cross from left to right somewhere above amp poison

Then we’d be getting somewhere

But just connecting the choice nodes like that and calling it a day is a bandaid fix

[vast loom]

so like from death mark to LD/VV?

[gusty mirage]

I think that'd be a good start

at giving us the freedom of swapping sides

[vast loom]

yeah i think we need more nodes to really make that feel good

cuz right now inorder to spend 20 points

we stil dont have much real choice

i tried to spend my 20 points as "differntly" as possible

[balmy condor]

Yeah

It’s definitely better though

The capstones are good

Love them

I just want everything above them to be good choices as well

And not just “yeah that’s a thing, that’s a thing too, whatever kingsbane”

[vast loom]

the thing i like about the bottom portion in this version is it lets you skip out on zold or dashing for ST, and lets you get zold pretty cheaply for AOE

like the last 10 points feel good

something like this almost every point i chose feels good i think

[balmy condor]

yeah I agree

[vast loom]

this program lets you auto "solve" trees

like i know thats not really a good way to look at it necessarily, because certain points are considered "required"

like we would never not take a capstone or deathmark

but i think it shows the difference in choice between trees

[grizzled jay]

Simple spec gets simple tree

[vestal wren]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lxTbkil8mgAhnBB7TLWK7gdcmhd-xJ5UR9obWys3MKQ/edit#gid=144779002

[grizzled jay]

Hi fuu

[vestal wren]

hey, serialos and some others made this list,
so we can be angry that rogue is one of the specs with the lowest possible talent combinations 😛

[vast loom]

oh big pog

this thing also lets you set some talents as excluded and required

to narrow down the choice

[vestal wren]

its not even close to perfect

but its a nice thing to look at

[vast loom]

yeah

[balmy condor]

resto 130 million assassination 3 mil

[vestal wren]

e.g. shaman

[gusty mirage]

[vestal wren]

one of the best recived specs so far has 23B class and 10M spec combinations

[vast loom]

ye ah

now we need a graph of how often max compares your tree to how bad original surv tree was

[vestal wren]

compared to assassination:

51M and 3.4M spec

so, to give a rough idea, the factor between 23B and 51M is 450

basically means shamans have 450 times more combinations

👍

[vestal wren]

I don't think number of combinations is all that relevant of a metric

you would probably need to eliminate dead options before you could draw any conclusion

e.g. just looking at the sub tree quickly you have 6 talents you probably never pick

[gusty mirage]

I think it's a fine balance between "look at all the combinations you can have" and what's actually relevant

[vast loom]

yeah

[gusty mirage]

it'll be interesting to see how they balance it out

[manic pebble]

how's sin doing in ss4?

I wanna change from sub to sin

[gusty mirage]

because if you've never played shaman before, 23 billion combinations is actually scary

[vestal wren]

good so far

[gusty mirage]

lmao

[vestal wren]

i don't think that people are afraid of complexity, if thats what you try to get at

[gusty mirage]

in keys or in raid?

[manic pebble]

both

[gusty mirage]

I think it's overwhelming for someone who's new to the game

[manic pebble]

cuz I play both

[vestal wren]

thats true

[gusty mirage]

keys I can't speak on, but I feel like with the crit bounty it shores up a lot of the concerns people have about CP generation in aoe

[vestal wren]

but from what i spoke with shamans, they have interessting options in most of their talent points

[vast loom]

sin is just really hard in keys imo

[gusty mirage]

so I'm sure it's more than fine, esp with the new dungeons there's a lot of problematic must die mobs that assassination's prio could be giga for

but your aoe is trash tier

so there's that

in raid it's more than fine

[vast loom]

like outlaw or sub have pretty easy options to aoe

outlaw you just press your ST buttons but with BF up

[spice spire]

The crit buff is very nice

[vast loom]

and sub is just a 2 button spec in aoe

[manic pebble]

guess I'll have to farm for sin gears and sub gears

[spice spire]

Ending a dungeon with 65+% crit

Is helpful

[gusty mirage]

If you don't mind outlaw, assassination and outlaw's gearing is very similar

could play outlaw in keys and sin in raid

[vestal wren]

while on rogue you often just take fairly predictable path with minor diffrences in 1-2 nodes

[gusty mirage]

yeah our choices don't feel like choices

[vestal wren]

and maybe we as a community don't want a dynamic tree with a lot of choice

[spice spire]

I will say, not knowing the dungeon definitely hurts your damage though 😛

[gusty mirage]

I was helping a pvp buddy of mine come up with builds for DF and there's a lot of question marks for them

[gusty mirage]

I'll coach you through it dw

I've had to do on the spot coaching for upper and lower kara

"shaman do you know how to do the dispel?"

[spice spire]

Got one shot by grim rail final boss twice

[gusty mirage]

"yes"

[spice spire]

Had no idea about the spear

[gusty mirage]

proceed to wipe 3 times ot the dispel on Attuman

[vestal wren]

"DH, do you know how to not move around"

[spice spire]

Yeah we wiped once to the dispel

[gusty mirage]

I had a ret pally walk out of flame wreath

and go "I didn't get heals"

like bro

what

[vestal wren]

haha ^^

[spice spire]

Wiped 3 times to moroes? Kept breaking people out of traps

[vestal wren]

we played upper with guild

[spice spire]

Serrated bonespike is fun

[gusty mirage]

"anything we need to know about this boss?"

"Don't move when you get flame wreath"

[vestal wren]

had 2 people in the key who never saw it

[gusty mirage]

first thing he does

is move

[vestal wren]

one did run into the fire cycle, "oh, this is what you mean"

[gusty mirage]

LMAO

[spice spire]

Was running with a 256 healer

[gusty mirage]

we timed a 16 upper and 16 lower with one of our healer's tank alts

[spice spire]

And started at a 10 lower Kara, hardest key we did all night

[gusty mirage]

he was a 255 prot warrior

[vestal wren]

didn't do lower yet

[gusty mirage]

idk how the fuck he lived sometimes

[spice spire]

Rest were legitimately free

Prot warrior moment

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

Absolute chad

[vestal wren]

that icon does not say assassination

[spice spire]

Last night was rat keys to learn them

Oxi is a traitor

[gusty mirage]

scarizard ruined assassination in keys for me

blame him

[spice spire]

I’m the only faithful here

[gusty mirage]

buddy

sorry to break it to you

[spice spire]

I 10000000% regret being faithful

[gusty mirage]

but uh until they buffed sin

[vestal wren]

fun fact, subtlety is the least played rogue spec in raids

[gusty mirage]

S1

[vast loom]

when was sin aoe good and what did our aoe?

[spice spire]

Oh I knew

[manic pebble]

😢

[gusty mirage]

bfa and echoing blades trait

[spice spire]

You were an outlaw main

[vestal wren]

the tier set is focused on single target damage

so, while sin did not get worse in aoe, it also didn't get better

[gusty mirage]

yeah 4pc does nothing but make the plate spinning of sin aoe even more annoying

[vast loom]

so when we did good aoe

[gusty mirage]

and if I'm going to do keys I want to at least enjoy it

[vast loom]

it was just FoK

going ham

[gusty mirage]

yep

[vast loom]

so it wasnt fun i assume? or was it fun

[gusty mirage]

shrouded suffocation made sure we could 3x garrote into a max cp finisher

garrote also did a ton of damage because of shrouded

[vestal wren]

tbh i think outlaw will be mostly "the play"

[vast loom]

yeah i knew about sgrouded

[vestal wren]

this season

[vast loom]

but that wasnt really "aoe"

[gusty mirage]

lucid memories made energy not as problematic

blood of the enemy/meme beam essences gave us some more aoe

[vestal wren]

echoing blades

[vast loom]

i see i see, were we trash aoe in legion? or did we have echoing blades

[gusty mirage]

idk I played sub in legion

[vestal wren]

sin was used in single target dungeon in legion

like upper kara

because the key has the bosses as difficult part

[vast loom]

yeah makes sense, but was it competetive in aoe at all? or was it similar position as now

[gusty mirage]

similar position as now

your aoe wasn't actually aoe

and if you had aoe classes

[spice spire]

I mean on bosses I was doing pretty well - but on larger packs it was infinitely worse

[gusty mirage]

you were there getting participation IO

[vestal wren]

sin was to a degree competitive in bfa

but even then, outlaw was just better

[vast loom]

i see

[spice spire]

@ember mural was blasting me on outlaw with less gear (also dying less, and more handsome)

[vast loom]

carnage seems to be a juiced talent then for sure

possibly competetive aoe class

do we know how IC + CB will interact?

[vestal wren]

what means you need more practice ^^

[gusty mirage]

no, what that means is he needs to suck it up and play sub or outlaw

[spice spire]

Yeah - lack of knowledge on dungeons definitely hurts

[vast loom]

nah that just means you didnt greif him enough with your quakings

[spice spire]

We actually were consistently griefing each other

[gusty mirage]

then just play the class that sends its CDs on CD

and then they pretend they're some big brain gamers

[vast loom]

if your squad works together you can keep him dead and take all the dmg 🙂

[gusty mirage]

pirates pretend playing outlaw is like metaphysics

[spice spire]

I made an offhand comment about only doing sim keys once here

This expansion and I’m sticking to it

[gusty mirage]

yeah

[vestal wren]

man of dedication

[gusty mirage]

you enjoy that man

[spice spire]

No other rogue spec touches the io

[gusty mirage]

sounds like a great time

[spice spire]

Tbh, I love sin in keys

[gusty mirage]

no shot you love the current iteration in keys

[spice spire]

It just takes a lot of work

[gusty mirage]

lol

[vestal wren]

lucky you

[vast loom]

if CB + IC makes all the spread dots auto crit

[spice spire]

It’s a bit wonky, but I do love it

[vast loom]

it might be too strong

[vestal wren]

subtlety likely will multidot in aoe in DF

[vast loom]

lol

[gusty mirage]

[vestal wren]

so you can enjoy "sin gameplay" on subtlety

[spice spire]

NOW THAT is cursed

[vestal wren]

is it, people always complain about BP

[spice spire]

QuakeitMake Is already gearing subtelty rn (once he hits 60)

I’ll probably play some sub keys on that toon later this tier

[vestal wren]

lower kara sounds nice

[spice spire]

And then TRULY regret my decisions in life

[gusty mirage]

people complain about everything

[spice spire]

Lower Kara is a bit overtuned but I had a blast

[vestal wren]

we would multi dot in legion

yet nobody did

[spice spire]

Seems like a fun dungeon unironically

[gusty mirage]

sub's niche got destroyed in BFA, their only AoE was hot ass garbage, people wanted real aoe if the funnel niche wasn't coming back, they got it, now they complain about it because it's "mindless"

like there's any spec in the game that's super engaging in aoe lol

[spice spire]

Assassination

[vestal wren]

idk, i think sub aoe is unique

[gusty mirage]

I think BP is fine

[spice spire]

But AoE KEKW

[vestal wren]

you basically doing like 50% less than any other class on prio target in aoe

[gusty mirage]

is it a particularly interesting spell?

not really

but like

it's fine

[vestal wren]

while doing medicre sustained aoe

👍

[spice spire]

Yeah, I legit think Sub AoE is fine - if I want to complain about something on sub

It’s the lotto 4p

[gusty mirage]

the one thing to complain about on sub

is how dance windows aren't as powerful as they once were

that was the fun part about sub

maximizing dance windows

now you get obnoxious uptime on dance

so it's like okay

[vestal wren]

ye, hard to predict how it changes in DF

[vast loom]

i think if dances were more like combusts Sub would feel great

[vestal wren]

you still have 35-40% uptime

[vast loom]

but i just play sin

and get my own 1 min giga winows

[vestal wren]

flag probably will be quite good

[gusty mirage]

they used to be similar, your dance window would make or break your damage

[vast loom]

yeah

[vestal wren]

so 1.5 min purst in DF

but in DF it looks like all specs get some burst talent

outlaw with and dance too

[vast loom]

yeah all rogues are gonna be bursty with CB/dance

outlaw

might have perma dread

which probably needs changed

[vestal wren]

i wouldn't draw to many conclusions yet

because the trees are still early

[vast loom]

yeah

[vestal wren]

i rly like the sin tree nodes

[vast loom]

i think if perma dreadblades is a thing in alpha at all it would need to be fixed to not be perma cuz then everything else needs to be balanced around perma dread

[vestal wren]

some rly good returning options and new stuff like deathmark

[vast loom]

yeah i think the new gameplay of sin

will be great

the ideas are greeat

[vestal wren]

hard to say how it will play, will need to test

but talents sound like they add some new components to gameplay

[vast loom]

honestly just CB + Dance add a lot of cool stuff to the spec

[misty holly]

Thistle Tea needs to be buffed... Dance seems like it will blow it away for both pve and pvp.

And Im not sure who echoing reprimand is supposed to be for.

Pretty sure Sub is going to prefer the dance

And with all the outlaw talents that buff ambush it might too

So general tree needs some work still.

[grizzled jay]

j u i c e d e n v s

an Amp'd animacharged CB envenon

[bleak sky]

That's at least 2k damage

[gusty mirage]

my brothers in sin

we're ramping

[bleak sky]

Gz gz

[drifting cloud]

dont trust him, he played outlaw on slg

[gusty mirage]

I played outlaw on council too

and I played outlaw while it was broken on huntsman

[drifting cloud]

smh padder (I will forgive if you didnt have 2 boomies)

[gusty mirage]

you assume our boomies were doing anything

[drifting cloud]

could have padded as necro assa there aswell!

[gusty mirage]

yeah but then I'd have to trust people during dance

and I'm scarred from my time in nathria

[drifting cloud]

thats what cheat and cloak are for

[carmine dawn]

Offensive cheat death

[thorny pond]

Yea, my healers get offended when I proc it

[night delta]

Too bad some effects seem to chew right through it, leaving us cheatless

[grizzled jay]

2k more than you've ever done

[grizzled jay]

Did a pug norm nathria and some people were furious a sin rogue was beating them on huntsman

[kindred rapids]

I have trouble imagining someone actually furious that someone else did damage

[grizzled jay]

Norms are a different breed of people

[kindred rapids]

I'll take your word for it lol

[brazen zodiac]

tell me how i run the stupid workshop key twice, get 2 daggers with avoidance, twice, then the ring drops for someone who doesnt even want in nor can trade it

oxi my brother in sin im gonna kermit

[jaunty lotus]

How does sin looks like for dragonflight m+? Do we expect it to still be worse than the others?

[vestal wren]

you are aware that the talent trees are still in early stages of developement

[brazen zodiac]

feels too early to say anything given everything can be changed at any point

ye what fuu said

[vestal wren]

that there was literally no tuning done

[jaunty lotus]

Yes, but from the early draft?

[vestal wren]

and mythic plus is basically... well not explored

[vestal wren]

so, how would you test it?

most of the spells don't even work in alpha

[balmy condor]

It’s looking like you should ask in 4 months

[vestal wren]

^

[jaunty lotus]

Just asking if sin got cool stuff, not for a sim

[kindred rapids]

Don't listen to them, sin will be bonkers

[balmy condor]

Sure

[jaunty lotus]

For m+ specifically

[balmy condor]

Do you like carnage?

[vestal wren]

ye see

[balmy condor]

And shrouded?

[brazen zodiac]

sin getting removed next xpac

srry

[balmy condor]

That’s cool

[jaunty lotus]

I just saw the one that mass dota

[vestal wren]

you asked a very specific question about tuning

in a xpac that is in more or less active development phase

how strong a spec is ultimately depends on tuning

the spec gets some new tools for aoe/m+ so thats good

[kindred rapids]

yeah the sin tree definitely has cool looking options for dungeons if that's what you're asking. Impossible to know what it's relative performance will be obviously.

But you can go read the tree and know basically as much as anyone else lol

[jaunty lotus]

Is sin behind right now purely for tuning? What would you tune differently to make sin better at m+ without making it oppressively on other content?

[violet jackal]

fan of knives gets combo points per target instead of crit

[kindred rapids]

sin just has no aoe spender

[violet jackal]

crimson tempest is a spender 🤔

[brazen zodiac]

loll....

hi panda

[violet jackal]

who you?

[brazen zodiac]

vita

badbttch

[violet jackal]

oh what it do, I saw your name on leaderboards

[brazen zodiac]

yeah i dont entirely suck

[violet jackal]

[brazen zodiac]

for CN?

[violet jackal]

yea

[brazen zodiac]

that was my first raid ever in cn!!

had no idea what i was doing LOL

nobody told me any mechanics and i kinda just winged cds

probably could've done a lot better, lol

cant seem to figure out shriekwing timings rip

[jaunty lotus]

Doesn't it give you one per crit?

[brazen zodiac]

u get any of them rings yet?

[violet jackal]

yea that's the issue

no rings, no bitches

[brazen zodiac]

fok in 9 targets -> 1 cp -> uninstall

💍

[vestal wren]

-> reinstall -> open talent book -> select "subtlety" -> change spec -> be happy

[brazen zodiac]

-> block fuu ->continue resisting normalcy

never. surrender.

[violet jackal]

congrats JPC on week 1 KSM unfortunately he played outlaw

he is juiced

[balmy condor]

Fok -> get 1 cp -> fok -> get 1 cp - fok -> get 1 cp -> realize you’re playing 8.3 -> fok spam regardless of cp -> monkey brain sees damage -> monkey brain happy

[grizzled jay]

We're top

[ebon moon]

computer died on me and lost all my weak auras. There was a weak aura that had two buttons for garrote and rupture that tracked bleed refresh time during vendetta windows, but I for the life of me can't remember what it was. It's separate than the big rogue packs (afenar's etc.). I searched wago but nothing is ringing a bell

does anyone recall which WA this might be?

[balmy condor]

Sounds like cev’s

https://wago.io/rk2kEs76d

These?

[ebon moon]

That is it

Thank you so much!

I really, really appreciate the help

Have a great weekend

[balmy condor]

You too

[languid plinth]

@balmy condor you told me about how bleeds snapshot with vendetta tier/exsanguinate but i just wanted to know how necro bone spike bleed works with it?

[strange python]

Slammed a key so hard the priest PId me over a lock and mage loooool

[violet jackal]

dynamic, it updates and speeds up in ticks then it slows down

[balmy condor]

Yep

It’s only for the duration

[grizzled jay]

Pretty epic dps during Ven tho

Sudden Fractures gets big deeps

[balmy condor]

Not really what I would call it

But is strong

Powerful drug

[violet jackal]

Bone spike is secretly a raid buff that people didn't know existed If i Throw it and jump off it will still do about 100k overall damage over 5minutes

[vast loom]

hmmm dk solo strat? 10 sin rogues SBS and suicide

[gaunt finch]

If u enough ass rogues you can just ignore some adds in p2 sire.

[pulsar apex]

ello

bad form to macro ven into sepsis? is there ever a scenario where i want to sepsis without ven, if ven is avilable?

[balmy condor]

Nope should be okay

[pulsar apex]

same with shiv/

?

[balmy condor]

Well you can’t macro shiv into that

Sepsis and shiv are gcds

But you want to sync them yes

[pulsar apex]

sorry i mean shiv + ven

[balmy condor]

I mean I guess sure

As long as it’s fae only

[pulsar apex]

yes

and i have ven seperate also

ty ty

[balmy condor]

You would want to vend sepsis shiv

But vend shiv isn’t too bad

[pulsar apex]

yeah i have that for the 3 min combo

[balmy condor]

I personally never understood why people macro everything together and then also apart

But if it works

[pulsar apex]

im pressing some combo of ven sep shiv every 30 seconds. one less press for some of those combos is nice

[balmy condor]

Sure

[pulsar apex]

ty vm

[peak bobcat]

any week 1 sylv daggers in chat

[spice spire]

Had my Sylv dagger for almost a year 🧐

[timid cloud]

Maybe a few of us, would be Whispyr but he’s not playing.

M’uh daggers!

[brazen zodiac]

pog

32 weeks and never got one

[spice spire]

[timid cloud]

Still missing mine too.

[brazen zodiac]

no dagger gang

[pulsar apex]

first two dinars on daggers right?

[balmy condor]

yes

[nimble tartan]

mfs thinkin about dinars meanwhile she takin me to dinner, we are not the same

[peak bobcat]

If you started the dinar quest on day one

you can get all 3 quests done this week

[oak sky]

wait what

[keen tree]

You need 30 bosses per dinar right? You can only have done 10 in one week no?

[keen tree]

He’s not playing?

[timid cloud]

That's what the mans said like a week or two ago.

He said FUCK S4.

[echo geyser]

Sin cant scale the moroes bleed trinket right?

Handkerchief

[peak bobcat]

bug

can keep spamming it over and over and getting dinars

[keen tree]

Omg

I’m gonna redo lfr

[pulsar apex]

i was locked at 10

after that no more

heroic/lfr combo

[peak bobcat]

IF you can go above 10 you can spam any difficulty repeatedly

[frosty bridge]

yo @balmy condor

[peak bobcat]

and keep getting them

[frosty bridge]

do you know if the garrote trinket works with assa stuff?

[night delta]

that dinar strat sounds a lot like exploit

if there's a surefire way to trigger it I wouldn't risk it

[pulsar apex]

that sounds like a blue post in the making

[peak bobcat]

Sure

Ban me over a season of fake content

for playing the game

[ebon notch]

?

dont be disingenuous

you knew it was exploiting

lmao

[balmy condor]

no, there is no trinket that interacts

[ebon notch]

or at the very least using the system in a way it was not designed to

[frosty bridge]

roger o7

[night delta]

it's a shame really, it's a quite thematic trinket

and also a second SBS

(it's also possibly one of the most afk brain trinket, even beyond stat proc ones - fire at pull, then fuggetaboutit)

[oak sky]

the free dinar thing could definitely be bannable

way more impactful than the 10 leggos thing that one guy did in prog last tier

and he got banned iirc

[echo geyser]

2nd use on st doesnt do anything right

[night delta]

yeah, blizz banned people for finding and using a quick azerite farming scheme last expansion

something about getting rewards from a WQ but being able to repeat it infinitely iirc ?

[faint harness]

anything where you notice that something that isnt supposed to work but is workingg

and giving you some kind of benefit

is a red flag

[peak bobcat]

So you are only supposed to get 10 a week

[faint harness]

yes

[peak bobcat]

not 1 per each boss on each difficulty

[faint harness]

no

[oak sky]

says something like

[nimble tartan]

i am simply doing all my lfr and normal i havent cleared for mog and chance at loot

[oak sky]

unique fated raid bosses

[nimble tartan]

i had no idea i was exploiting

[faint harness]

"Tylerr — Today at 01:19
IF you can go above 10 you can spam any difficulty repeatedly"

i mean he's also saying "any difficulty"

as in

[oak sky]

just dont buy any items i think

[faint harness]

idk

[oak sky]

i mean

[nimble tartan]

well idk if its intended or not thwy are very lackluster in their comms on how things work

[oak sky]

ive done mythic and heroic

and i only have 10/30

like 5 on mythic

all heroic

[nimble tartan]

could be newly bugged

try to kill 1 thing and see

[peak bobcat]

We did sepulcher on reset for mount

and the first 2 bosses gave us points toward it as well

but they said they already hotfixed that

[oak sky]

should be fated only and all difficulties combined

or its unfair no?

[faint harness]

i mean long term you can only get 3 items anyway

[peak bobcat]

can only get them normal ilevel anyways no?

cant upgrade them until next week if you full clear

[faint harness]

well

us mere mortals wont have them until 2 weeks from now

[peak bobcat]

same

[faint harness]

?

you literally already have them

[peak bobcat]

oh

[faint harness]

ur meant to get ur first vendor item

after each raid

has been seen once

aka 3 weeks

[oak sky]

i thought we were buying at mythic ilvl

[faint harness]

nah

[nimble tartan]

u get upgrade mythic tokens tho

[faint harness]

you have to use the upgrade item

[oak sky]

now im kinda

annoyed

that i was out on so many bosses

[faint harness]

i mean its whatever

surely you have 20 bosses done on mythic

by the time sepulcher is out again

or well

[oak sky]

well

if we follow the trend

ill have

[faint harness]

after sepulcher

[oak sky]

15 bosses done

[nimble tartan]

find new guild bro aint no way they sittin a rogue

also if u find urself sat on like kore than 5 fights 4 a night thats bad roster movement tbh..

i make sure all my mfs sittin max 2-3 bosses depending on roster size

[oak sky]

we also only did thru council

[echo geyser]

Are these tokens based on raid difficulty

If u do full hc then 5 mythic

[soft shale]

the upgrade ones are for each diff

[oak sky]

yeah the upgrade ones are

[soft shale]

the dinars are per kill total cumulative

first one at 30 then 20

[echo geyser]

Theres 2 diff tokens?

[tiny root]

Hey all! Had a quick question - is. Does the bleed trinket from lower get buffed by our 4 piece?

[soft shale]

they are different things

[peak bobcat]

Dinars go 30-15 then not sure

[echo geyser]

[oak sky]

definitely not

[tiny root]

Apologies if this has been asked! I haven’t seen anyone with it yet

Ahh damn

[oak sky]

i mean it shouldnt

most stuff is whitelisted

[tiny root]

I looked at it and thought it could be dope

[oak sky]

nothing cool works because its too restrictive

[tiny root]

Ahh makes sense

[thorny pond]

Legion was last fun interactive trinket xpac

[faint harness]

arcanocrystal was very interactive

[soft shale]

not for rogue

specter of betrayal was bae glaives too i guess people remember those

meanwhile the zoom tornado trink was kinda boring

[balmy condor]

Glaives, draught, elisande trinket

Pretty gud

[viral aurora]

Mirror of the blademaster, now that was a trinket. Good ol' days

[thorny pond]

Frond!

[soft shale]

man draught was so good with sprint vanish and MA

sad it got nuked

frond was cursed

we had one guy that got a super titanforged it and used all the way until expansion ended

[fleet whale]

that sprint that made you vanish trait was kind of cancer though

[soft shale]

skill issue

that is why it got deleted too

[fleet whale]

eh, i don't like burning movement abilities for dps

it's borderline acceptable with vanish

[arctic venture]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[fading wind]

The pin says to move unity to wrists and leggo to chest, but is there a particular reason belt doesn't get unity? my apologize if this is one of those million times asked questions the BiS list wasn't very helpful

[arctic venture]

I dont get it either, because chest tier have good stats

[toxic ocean]

wrists has less stats than belt, and legendaries are gonna be lower ilvl than mythic pieces this patch

[toxic ocean]

you wanna be able to use mechagon rings, and duskwalker is unfortunately only on ring and chest

[ebon lichen]

any tip to getting the overclocking bit band from mechagon other than spamming? I finally got a ring and its the shorting one

[vast loom]

you can spam lower levels

[brazen zodiac]

just do 2s tbh

10-13 minutes

[ebon lichen]

ok. have seen the healer one like 4 times and now this one, frustrating lol

[brazen zodiac]

yeah its a lil frustrating

gotten about 5 daggers now from the place lol

the nature one dropped for me before, that was ruff

[spice spire]

Insight into my weekend Upcoming

[strange python]

I got 304 chest and Mecha rings

What do

Fugg

Also sin kinda feels nice rn, dropped 18k in a WS

[brazen zodiac]

epic

[strange python]

Idk what to do about duskwalkers

[toxic ocean]

ye necro sin feels nice in keys

[balmy condor]

Bro said “frond” as if anyone missed that shit 💀

[inner temple]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[solid mica]

is sin still the only spec that isn't bugged in raid? or did they fix anything yet

[balmy condor]

They fix

[solid mica]

oh nice, they fixed all the thangs?

[balmy condor]

I believe so

[empty hinge]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[tardy basin]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[balmy condor]

!fuu?

[vestal wren]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[burnt latch]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[timber socket]

Yo my dudes what do we do with mechagon rings and Duskwalker? do we make it on chest or do we say fuck the mechagon rings?

[vestal wren]

yes

we put it on chest

[timber socket]

just looked at your spreadsheet and found it on chest aswell, just seems like a lot of main stat to loose

[vestal wren]

the mechagon set is worth enough to make up for that

but you don't need to trust me, just put that below your /simc in top gear and sim it for yourself:

(geat list with all season 4 items)

[timber socket]

nah i have trust mate

[vestal wren]

it is still better to check for your gear in a sim 😉

[violet jackal]

Why is this trying to open indeed on my phone?

[limber lion]

Wut

[balmy condor]

[vestal wren]

its a text file

[gusty mirage]

why is your phone set to open .txt's in indeed?

[vestal wren]

^ asking the real question

[violet jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/i-dont-know-you-tell-me-david-rose-david-dan-levy-gif-20767172

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/thierry-henry-clueless-thierry-henry-as-a-pundit-pundit-gif-25167832

[ebon lichen]

Swapped to MFD instead of vigor. Is it normal to have to pool energy more? Seems like im constantly energy starved.

[balmy condor]

Slightly more sure

But vigor energy regen is pretty small

The 10% energy regen boost you get is 10% on the baseline 10 a second you have

Which basically means you’re getting 1 mutilate a minute more than you would with mfd

It’s not a noticeable difference

The reason why it feels slower is mainly your opener because of the 50 max energy less