Same dude
#assassination
burnt latch
I feel like an old man
Covid trucked me
I think ill become a guardian druid wotlk tank / gm / raid leader
And move to the countryside
Possibly adapt some extreme political views
Just vibe out u know
spice spire
Respect
cerulean junco
I always thought carnage was rupture or garrote not both
slow marsh
yeah it's both
drowsy crescent
So are we all assuming that Kingsbane > Dragon-Tempered Blades?
bleak sky
No
subtle kiln
we assume nothing
slow marsh
bleak sky
Tuning
Second alpha build
Patch is 4 months away or something like that
There's nothing to assume
slow marsh
KB is the new shiny so it's the primary focus rn
subtle kiln
just know dance exsang build will be best
slow marsh
just know dance exsang build will be best
show me how you're fitting exsang
subtle kiln
show me how you’re not
slow marsh
blindside too gud
subtle kiln
and?
slow marsh
and exsang not
subtle kiln
good luck with that one
winter hill
XD
bleak spoke
just know dance exsang build will be best
all u need to do is garret 1 garret 2 garret 3
spice spire
timid cloud
It's FUCKING OVER
buoyant falcon
hi, anyone can help me with shadowmeld stealth macro?
balmy condor
Season 4 Mini-post
Moved to #assassination-faq, read the posts there first.
spice spire
New pin 
chilly marsh
you cant both DTB and carnage anymore right?
balmy condor
correct
balmy condor
New pin <:yejoice:930481318767239209>
I have deadlines for season 4 and 10.0 articles by the end of the week and it's almost midnight on wednesday and I have no time tomorrow lord help me
slow marsh
Will night fae be good for season 4?
balmy condor
no
spice spire
I have deadlines for season 4 and 10.0 articles by the end of the week and it's ...
Good luck sir
oak sky
no TO 
slow marsh
i saw that once
spice spire
Lil Subaru?
timid cloud
Will night fae be good for season 4?
Stop...
balmy condor
Lil Subaru?
that's my rap name
slow marsh
grate cheese
oak sky
im playing kyrian
timid cloud
Ban him now.
oak sky
(no seal fate)
timid cloud
Get him outta here.
spice spire
(no seal fate)
Ur done kid
oak sky
agreonmoon (necro feral)
balmy condor
Might commit to sewer slide...
bro kermit sewer slide
my favorite sesame street episode
chilly marsh
we should get 4 tokens to buy items not fair peopel can buy 2h with only one @_@
timid cloud
I'm about to, Necrolord Sin, Necrolord Feral, Kyrian Sin...
chilly marsh
i wnat to buy 2 trinkets too @_@
timid cloud
I'm actually getting physically ill.
balmy condor
i wnat to buy 2 trinkets too @_@
actually fairly little reason to buy a second trinket tbh
would probably want to buy like shoulders or something and catalyst them
or hands
timid cloud
I'm just getting Discounted Phial, m'uh hateful chain.
balmy condor
probably ryg hands
chilly marsh
hum
coarse schooner
Will Assa get a Buff for S4?
balmy condor
Will Assa get a Buff for S4?
who knows
timid cloud
Are all of the stat pieces amped?
spice spire
🔮
chilly marsh
its alarming the total lack of any patchnote for s4
its like they really dont care for the dead SL xpack xD
balmy condor
scarizard had post on twitter for people to send questions in though
||(he didn't answer most of them)||
timid cloud
LOL
coarse schooner
If Assa get buffed, i could be strong with haste Bounty
chilly marsh
we dont even know if we will use 291 legos
misty holly
Assas won't need a buff since we scale so well with gear
balmy condor
Assas won't need a buff since we scale so well with gear
I hate you
bleak sky
||(he didn't answer most of them)||
I will not apologize for the amount I'll talk about season 4
visual rampart
Who needs scaling when you have edge of night
bleak sky
I will not be silenced
main solar
Comments from Max on stream seemed to suggest the entirety of Season 4 was the brain child of scarizard and a couple others, and they practically had to beg and convince them to let them do it.
coarse schooner
Maybe a Crimson Tempest buff for aoe
balmy condor
going to have to re-ban the word scale
coarse schooner
That would be nice
main solar
so all the info and such was probably just dumped on them to handle on their own
balmy condor
the only scale I want from you clowns in chat is the one you stand on after the gym to make sure you have a healthy weight
you're looking cute out there
keep it up
timid cloud
Sorry, I'm thicker than a snicker, not changing any time soon.
We eatin' GOOD out here.
balmy condor
we like dad bods too cydone
balmy condor
you promise?
yes
ebon notch
sick
balmy condor
balmy condor
waifus don't count mr bread
echo cargo
Petition for new rank for Rogue dads?
timid cloud
Yes please.
echo cargo
Dadsassination
timid cloud
Marked for Dad
upbeat tinsel
whispyr is this ""Duplicates" Adds another instance of each garrote/rupture/lethal, meaning the target will have 2 garrotes for example" based on something that realz said? I don't see this on alpha
balmy condor
whispyr is this ""Duplicates" Adds another instance of each garrote/rupture/leth...
yes
balmy condor
as far as I know deathmark still broken on alpha
upbeat tinsel
it ticks double but there's no indication of a second debuff atm
buoyant falcon
hi, anyone can help me with shadowmeld stealth macro?
soft shale
dont worry my lads i know someone somewhere is cooking an exsang build with sigil and injector for maximum cringe
gusty mirage
hi, anyone can help me with shadowmeld stealth macro?
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/rogue-shadowmeld-macro/1184836 give that a shot, if that doesn't work I'll check my nelf rogue from bfa to see if my macro still works
slow forge
dont worry my lads i know someone somewhere is cooking an exsang build with sigi...
Yes I’m ready
sleek sundial
Man can we convince realz to delete exsang
harsh anchor
Change exsang to make dots tick 100% slower but do double damage xd
vast loom
can you change any piece in season4 with creation catalyst or only SFO
or is that still in the air
obtuse robin
testing something is different then knowing what got changed
man doesnt know 80 % of the updates
luckly we have our dev in here
lyric crater
saw the updated rogue talent kingbane back i like that dont like i have to take mark for death to get seal fate talent
main solar
Pretty sure Realz has stated he doesn't like Cold Blood and MFD being forced picks, but don't think he's said what would change or if he's even committed to anything in that regard. We know most of the rogue stuff should come next week, so we'll see if there's something there.
lyric crater
ok
just happy kingbane and sbs in the mixs not a fan of sepsis over all i like the changes but it stlll earlyer
frank nest
obtuse robin
he did say
possible swap with a passive that has gameplay vibes rather then a heavey active
lyric crater
the dragon tempered blade looks fun can run 2 lethal poison but u have to pick that or king bane the way set up
main solar
they would synergize way too well together
lyric crater
yea
obtuse robin
youll have them both in 11.0
obtuse robin
we can get 2
main solar
you can get kingsbane and Carnage together
obtuse robin
if u want
main solar
but if you get dragon tempered, you cant get the others
main solar
you cant
oak sky
i think he was thinking about changing the layout a bit or something
i dont remember exactly
main solar
you're 1 point short of IC if you get to DTB
lyric crater
there still going to be lasts min changes so we have to see what shakes out
oak sky
yeah you cant really do a viable aoe build with 2 capstones
main solar
I can see maybe easing that combo up, maybe make scent of blood 2 points. but definitely need to keep KB and DTB seperated
main solar
just bake in snd again already and drop cttc
obtuse robin
what is that build m+ ?
obtuse robin
yea that looks akward
lyric crater
yea that was great auto refresh snd i remember when it was a talent called cut to chase came out in LK
main solar
kingsbane seems weird for M+ unless you're taking it specifically for bosses anyways
strange python
A lot of other specs have cap stones that synergize together really well and you can take both. I guess for assa to be able to do that they'd have to redesign the capstones or remove dtp
Rn the tree feels super rigid in that respect
obtuse robin
yea others r just not as strong
strange python
Yeah feels like they put too much power in the capstones
lyric crater
sin mostly single target maybe give us better aoe abitiy
sub aoe was crap untill they added black power if done right there aoe petty strong
main solar
Also that the capstones have some clear differences in content type that kind of drive you towards those capstones rather than preference. Like Carnage is clearly AoE and never ST.
strange python
You could solve that pretty easily for that path by scaling the agi buff granted by rupture depending on the amount of targets affected, i.e. a large amount for one to three targets then scaling down afterwards
main solar
I'm noticing a lot of other trees are more spread out single pointers that allow some choice between nodes, while most of assassination atleast is just grabbing points on the way down to the capstone because you have to.
not that the talents on the way are bad, just isn't really a choice.
of the couple points we do get leeway with, it pretty much comes down to a number tuning thing that decides our choice too.
With the general class tree that's pretty true as well. Basically all of our utility choices are made at the top of the tree to break the 8 point gate, and any utility choice lower down the tree is basically determined by which capstone or branch you decide to go down.
vast loom
When whispyr says that cold blood works with bleeds
does that mean the whole thing crits?
or just the initial hit
winter hill
whole thing
vast loom
yeah
im excited
to be a burst spec
idk tho garrote has a lot of %dmg stuff on it
maybe its better but i doubt it
wait
lethality will buff KB dmg too
thats so huge
winter hill
and shiv
dense herald
Bro idk the idea of kingsbane and death mark syncing every second use is gonna feel so good
winter hill
cb kb, shiv with zoldyck. prolly insane execute
vast loom
Cold blood + dance + shiv + KB
winter hill
i personally am not fully convinced on dance for assa
vast loom
it gives us a dmg amp and lets us maintain shrouded/stealthed garrotes
vast loom
doubtful
winter hill
yee i know what it does for us. just not convinced find weakness is worth the points for dance.
vast loom
i can see it
vast loom
we dont really want the cdr
bleak spoke
i mean
winter hill
and nightstalker did just get nerfed as well. making dance weaker for assa as well
bleak spoke
i can't see a world where
you wouldn't want the cdr
if you're playing a shrouded setup
given you could double your uptime on the shrouded dot if you could get the cdr
harsh anchor
Pray dance is garbage and exsang is bis all DF 
hollow river
you definitely want the CDR, the thing is if you need the CDR or not
bleak spoke
i don't even think you'd need dance
hollow river
we could have enough interactions that we don't need it
bleak spoke
i think it'd just be better to get other stuff
like tbh 3 points in alacrity probably better than 2 of fw and dance 
vast loom
idk we would get what vigor and shitty DS?
winter hill
i think it'd just be better to get other stuff
yeah that's what i'm thinking as well
winter hill
like this. if tea is good then 2 point alacrity instead
oak sky
like tbh 3 points in alacrity probably better than 2 of fw and dance <:NotLikeAq...
thats just false, alacrity points only add chance to give you a stack
bleak spoke
oh you don't get more haste?
vast loom
yeah we only need 2 points for easy 100% uptime
lethality point is good
since it buffs KB
bleak spoke
idk like take vigor or something then
oak sky
dance is really good
oak sky
you get full nightstalker and MA during the entire dance
and you can do stronger garrotes
during it
bleak spoke
yeh
bleak spoke
also you get the free subterfuge from going down the shrouded side as well
its probably good to have dance
winter hill
no we do some phys damage. we also do alot of nature
vast loom
it wasnt a great parse or anything
bleak spoke
yeah but like we're getting a giga stacked shrouded
do you not see the billion scalers in other talents
like the one i just linked is casual 50% bonus dmg
lethal dose, lethality
zoldycks possibly, bloody mess, nightstalker
etc etc
bleak spoke
probably an uldir log then
we played exsang then too
https://i.imgur.com/6WSKlzY.png honestly don't see a breakdown like this being too unreasonable, looks like a log from before corruptiion vendor i just clicked a random one off my wcl from 8.3
vast loom
i just dunno if our version of shrouded will do this kind of dmg
sleek sundial
like this. if tea is good then 2 point alacrity instead
posted this morning, this is what we need
vast loom
we cant stack 3 shrouded's
bleak spoke
yeah but keep in mind this doesn't split shrouded/nonshrouded garrotes
so like most of that dmg was done in the shrouded window but we'll end up having more
windows i mean
like that was 2:25 sin
cuz you played on exsang timer and held vendetta and vanish for the exsang cast etc
i don't think this variation would be as bursty
but if you wanted it to be, shadow dance is probably less the play than like stats or dmg scalers of some sort
winter hill
posted this morning, this is what we need
idk bout forced deeper for dance tho
bleak spoke
i think though the bursty damage profile would probably be something that you'd see from a coldblood kingsbane or coldblood sepsis setup more than a shrouded setup
vast loom
i just dunno if our garrote dmg will look this big like the big windows are doing like 15x dmg
bleak spoke
i kinda miss 8.3
bleak spoke
i do
spice spire
Rose tinted glasses
vast loom
i just dunno what kind of dmg increase shrouded was
spice spire
I s2g
vast loom
compared to the 15% we have in DF
gusty mirage
i just dunno what kind of dmg increase shrouded was
it was flat damage
vast loom
like 15% is big but like
bleak spoke
it's not just going to be 15%
gusty mirage
but it stacked
bleak spoke
like you have to count the scaling elements
and compare them
elaborate planning, subterfuge, the haste scaling too - raden trinket, overwhelming power, etc etc
i don't think it'll be as aggressive
vast loom
i just dont see a world where a 15% buff'd garrote becomes the giga 8.3 version, compared to something like a KB
bleak spoke
but keep in mind you can have both nightstalker and subterfuge buff yeah?
and other things
gusty mirage
the trait wasn't what made it "giga"
it was obscene amounts of haste
the trait made it good, being able to have a bajillion haste made it giga
vast loom
ah i see what % was this lol
bleak spoke
idk like
bleak spoke
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654174493413081089/691081470504337458/Wow_2020-03-19_20-36-01.jpg it was pretty okay even before the vendor
vast loom
gusty mirage
lmao god 8.3 was so degen
gusty mirage
mine's from before, i'm mind flay andy
THIS IS WHY WE'RE BEST FRIENDS
DOOM NOODLERS UNITE
bleak spoke
carapace dagger havers 
bleak spoke
god it was so degen
gusty mirage
when it did proc
gusty mirage
you'd just do stupid amounts of damage
bleak spoke
gusty mirage
someone from my guild sprang 5m gold on an echoing void piece
bruh some dude gave me 5mil for gushing wounds the same week they announced the vendor
homeboy tried getting some of his gold back after
bleak spoke
gushing was actually so insane in pvp
gusty mirage
I just mounted on my brutosaur to show him that it wasn't happening
bleak spoke
you literally could kidney someone to death
they'd die in the IB window
but just in case you brought along drest trinket, motorbike, nature dot bracers, major essence breath
holy fk that was degen
main solar
Reason we don't know much about season 4 is they're secretly giving us corruption gear back 🙃
bleak spoke
but unironically any mechagon bracers
wonder if it'll have the same cdr interaction with fire 4p as it did with lucid
also what was the icd on the nature dmg ring, shouldn't we perma proc the healing conditional with snd now
bleak spoke
shrrouded, kingsbane and bone spike
gray flower
so awesome
vast loom
bonespike is so cool tbh
sand sigil
why does sin do zdps in season 4
is it just cp gen + daggers and the others just ascend or what
ebon notch
outlaw + sub do better with the daggers
and outlaw has veinripper
before assa benefited a fuckload from frost set
the only thing keeping us close is our tier set
sand sigil
gg see u in dragonflight
proper cloak
which could be the dps meta for season 4?
whole mason
Does anyone know whether IC has a duration or just next gar and rup?
fleet anchor
is it just cp gen + daggers and the others just ascend or what
Yeah basically little degen equipment gains
Outlaw/Sub get more from daggers and trinkets
Veinripper
fleet whale
I wonder how good those stat stick trinkets from wod will be
and I think M+ Shadowoon burial grounds could be a pug killer
fleet anchor
Well 9.0.5's changes really devalued stat trinkets compared to damage trinkets
I dunno if stat sticks would be very competitive anymore
Hunger of the Pack from BfA at M+ ilevel is about 1% behind Eye of Command. The WoD on-use ones seem really poor, Shadowgem 1.5% behind that.
cerulean nest
this shit takes so long and is hilarious but seems to pump nicely
upbeat needle
30 second opener
upbeat needle
this shit takes so long and is hilarious but seems to pump nicely
a true fuckin ramp
hollow river
i just want to know if deathmark is off GCD
same for kingsbane and cold blood - i've never played with them before
limber lion
Kingsbane isn't, Cold Blood is
hollow river
gotcha
strange python
Wonder what inevitable change is coming to EoN
sick edge
They did, yes, but we will know values when the patch notes come out.
balmy condor
I see
vestal wren
this basically
vestal wren
this is also interesting
i assume the trinkets/weapons are the unique items. But it would be nice to know what items we see outside of that
likely some agi ring/neck that potentially changes the sims
balmy condor
Probably just a neck for Assassination
I doubt main stars rings would replace mechagons
vestal wren
i am not entirely sure about the transition to non main stat items
so it is possible that main stat neck/rings have a lower budget for secondary stats
balmy condor
Oh they do
That was part of the change
To make jewelry more “interesting”
They removed the main stat and then buffed the secondaries to compensate
But the budget stayed roughly the same I think
balmy condor
Yeah true
vestal wren
so potentially does not change item choice, just annoying that we don't know the full item pool
livid thicket
Hey, when workload is decreasing I would like to test assa rogue- what makes assa fun for you? How does does it perform in m+, does the 2set help?
vestal wren
Sub/Outlaw peform slightly better in mythic plus at this point but if you want to play it, sure go for it
cursive orchid
Hey, when workload is decreasing I would like to test assa rogue- what makes as...
it does like all other classes, getting carried by hunt and lock. your aoe is really interesting in terms of what you wanna do who you wanna dot, but sadly does bad damage if you don't have axe from cache. u gonna have vendetta and flag up for nearly every pack, so in my opinion your role is to help the team with prio
gray warren
i hope cold blood works on Kingsbane dot, so shadowdance isn't mandatory for the build
steel ridge
you would just macro those and be done with it 😄
balmy condor
Wait but that makes shadow dance even stronger
gray warren
No because you need to optimize everything else, as all aug buff : Lethal dose, elaborate planning, envenom and optimise bleeds from deathmark at the same time
steel ridge
macro dance+kingsbane+coldblood into a button and do big dam
balmy condor
You wouldn’t want to do that
steel ridge
watch me
balmy condor
Kingsbane lasts longer than dance
gray warren
yea ShD the last 9 sec
steel ridge
i will macro it to sepsis and press it 5 seconds later
KEKW
and spam ambush for 10 seconds
lmao
gray warren
And does "Virulant poison : Increase your weapon poison" works with "kingsbane : release a letal poison from your weapon" ?
balmy condor
yep
steel ridge
kingsbane is a lethal weapon poison?
marble hemlock
weapon poisons are usually just deadly/instant/wound
gray warren
and does deathmark works with kingsbane ?
marble hemlock
and i guess amplifying
balmy condor
you sure about that
was like that in legion
steel ridge
mother of synergy
marble hemlock
in legion it worked differently tho
marble hemlock
even PB was affected by MP
but they redid the terminology for bfa and made MP from poison damage to weapon poisons, and changed the whitelist to only be ip/wound/dp
marble hemlock
might be even without
it seems that realz is really pushing for specific terminology to make it a bit more clear what modifier affects what
gray warren
I know it will change later but atm it's viable
marble hemlock
so it seems to be nature damage, nature damage over time and weapon poisons so far
gray warren
that's nice
balmy condor
yeh
gray warren
the spell need that so we can play around
steel ridge
on thing remains, when is thistle getting culled?
marble hemlock
thistle isnt that bad
balmy condor
realistically it doesn't super matter how things interact because if it's too strong, it just won't interact
that's tuning
marble hemlock
ye
gray warren
so cold blood works with Kingsbane ?
balmy condor
sure
gray warren
for the entire dot ?
balmy condor
it's intended to work with everything right now
balmy condor
realistically it doesn't super matter how things interact because if it's too st...
^ but read
gray warren
yea i know :p
marble hemlock
The intention is for everything to interact with everything. The reality will most likely look very different once we move from the conceptual design stage to the actual tuning
gray warren
But in term of gameplay if nothing works with kingsbane we just won't play it cause it's undertuned without all agm
augm*
balmy condor
that's not how that works
marble hemlock
Kingsbane could very well be very good even without any modifiers affecting it
Whether it gains 100% more damage from a variety of modifiers or just does 100% more damage baseline and isnt affected by any modifiers, the damage would be the same
balmy condor
you can tune abilities to not interact with things and still be good
gray warren
DTB would be better in that case
gray warren
The good thing with kingsbane is that your gameplay is entirely optimise for this spell. If it's a press and forget spell, i feel like it would be bad
I pref to reduce Kingsbane dmg and let it synergize with everything
balmy condor
that would make it harder to make kingsbane viable
marble hemlock
The good thing with kingsbane is that your gameplay is entirely optimise for thi...
That's exactly what Kingsbane is - a press and forget spell. There is nothing we change rotationally to optimize Kingsbane damage. We already clip and extend and maintain Envenom as much as we can. Which is exactly waht you wanna do for Kingsbane
gray warren
That's exactly what Kingsbane is - a press and forget spell. There is nothing we...
i don't agree, envenom isn't enough. You need to optimise lethal dose, elaborate planning, ShD
it's a lot of things
oak sky
lol what
balmy condor
i don't agree, envenom isn't enough. You need to optimise lethal dose, elaborate...
those all handle themselves dude
oak sky
you dont optimize ep or lethal dose at all
gray warren
You need to prepare your burst
balmy condor
lethal dose is completely passive, as is elaborate planning
whole mason
About zoldyck's tooltip, is it supposed to affect env?
balmy condor
shadow dance you just press 3 seconds into it
balmy condor
About zoldyck's tooltip, is it supposed to affect env?
no
gray warren
loool
marble hemlock
All of those are passive effects. How do you "handle" them, beyond allocating the skillpoints into those talents?
marble hemlock
The only "choice" you have is whether you sync the cast of Dance and KB, or if you use Dance so the final tick of KB is in it. That's a basic numbers thing, where we'll basically figure out a threshold of the amount of KB stacks where getting the initial hit boosted is more value than the final few ticks.
balmy condor
The only "choice" you have is whether you sync the cast of Dance and KB, or if y...
that's way too complicated, kingsbane does more damage at the end, so you make dance hit the final tick of kingsbane
done
balmy condor
Okay, not a dot but instant natural dmg?
amp poison is a dot
marble hemlock
And since we dont know how many KB stacks we get beforehand, it'll likely just be the same gameplay at all times.
KB isn't a new spell. We had KB in Legion. I had a weakaura tracking the stacks, but there was no way for me to interact with the ability while it was running. You maintained Envenom with 100% uptime, which isn't particularly hard, and that's it. And then you sometimes get a lot of stacks, cause your 70% procchance per poison happened a lot. Sometimes it didn't. But there's not much to do once you press the button, and it doesnt change your rotation.
marble hemlock
that's way too complicated, kingsbane does more damage at the end, so you make d...
yeah thats pretty likely
and we'll pool shiv charges for it
gray warren
it change the way you sync abilities
balmy condor
It doesn't say over time?
whole mason
Or I'm reading an outdated version?
balmy condor
I think I might be reading an outdated version
marble hemlock
It doesn't "change" the way you sync abilities
marble hemlock
There's no change to current gameplay, because the current game doesn't have dance or KB.
balmy condor
I think the most interesting thing about kingsbane is that we might press dance for the damage boost and then not use ambush because it applies less poisons than mutilate
marble hemlock
There's no change during DF gameplay, you will still use all your CDs pretty much on cooldown. Since both Dance and KB are 1min CDs, there's no change in sync either depending on whether you have one or the other talented. You just use them on CD (with the caveat that you wanna make sure to use dance so the last second of it overlaps with the last second of KB).
oak sky
I think the most interesting thing about kingsbane is that we might press dance ...
not using ambush again 
also dance is a crit window
gray warren
man if you don't sync death mark with kingsbane you loose 6% dmg
balmy condor
man if you don't sync death mark with kingsbane you loose 6% dmg
6.19318595032% actually
I ran the numbers
gray warren
8% + an entire KB if Kingsbane works with deathmark
balmy condor
gray warren
KB is 1 min CD and deathmark 1,5
whole mason
I'm thinking that you were saying amp poison is stronger for us to choose in KB build. I was thinking if zoldyck's not affecting amp poison's amp part would it be that kind of worth.
marble hemlock
man if you don't sync death mark with kingsbane you loose 6% dmg
They line up naturally. There is no "i need to make sure to sync these" thought process. Syncing in the context of rotational gameplay means delaying abilities to make sure they line up wiht other damage amps. Deathmark is 2min. Kingsbane is 1min. It lines up by default by just pressing both on CD.
gray warren
my bad
balmy condor
I'm thinking that you were saying amp poison is stronger for us to choose in KB ...
oh, yeah zoldyck would only affect the damage portion, not the envenom amp
balmy condor
man now you need to redo your %'s again
marble hemlock
It's muich better this way though
Like, we had 2min vanish, ~1min vendetta, 35sec KB and 25sec TB back in Legion. And it sucked ass.
balmy condor
pulling numbers out of your ass is easy regardless of the cooldown
gray warren
yea it's better
marble hemlock
Obviously you might be forced out of melee for a bit, be unable to use KB for ~5-10seconds, and then you use it when you get back, and then your CDs might be desynced, so you delay Deathmark until KB is back up
bleak spoke
I think the most interesting thing about kingsbane is that we might press dance ...
Will probably feel pretty good with master assassin to muti in dance tbh
gray warren
it's not from my ass, it's literaly the deathmark and lethal dose tooltip
balmy condor
Will probably feel pretty good with master assassin to muti in dance tbh
yeh we'll see what happens, but the ambush single hit thingy is just not great
balmy condor
it's not from my ass, it's literaly the deathmark and lethal dose tooltip
oh you meant 6% specifically to kingsbane?
gray warren
yea
balmy condor
cause the way you wrote it, it sounded like you were saying not syncing is just -6% dps
gray warren
no no
balmy condor
then yeah okay
sick edge
also dance is a crit window
How is dance a crit window?
balmy condor
How is dance a crit window?
ma works with dance
sick edge
ma works with dance
confirmed?
gray warren
works with master assassin
balmy condor
yes
whole mason
I think the most interesting thing about kingsbane is that we might press dance ...
On a high stacks situation, would further stacks lose value?
sick edge
well that's huge
balmy condor
it got nerfed specifically to enable that
balmy condor
On a high stacks situation, would further stacks lose value?
wdym by that? higher stacks just ramp the damage more, it's 15% additive, so apply 10 poisons, it's 150%, apply 20 its 300%
ambush only hitting once means less chances for poison applications
mutilate hits twice
gray warren
but if cold blood works with KB, you don't need ShD on this particular build. Same if you wanna augm Garrot
forgot about that, ty :p
sick edge
Surely CB just makes the initial dmg crit and not the whole thing?
balmy condor
yeah that's a big reason why ambush sucks right now
we don't even know if cold blood will end up working with any damage over time effect
pointless talking about it
gray warren
yea
balmy condor
if it's too strong, it won't work
if it's not strong, good chance it'll work and you just cold blood crit the whole thign
bleak spoke
if it does it'll be quite insane
balmy condor
idk bout that
bleak spoke
if not i guess we'll use it for prio in m+ with amp poison
i guess
it'll feel like those ttk azerite builds agane probably
marble hemlock
How good or bad anything is, is pretty subjective and relative to whatever crazy shit every other spec gets.
bleak spoke
i kinda miss that playstyle alot
balmy condor
it's 100% crit but you already have like 60% from the rest of tree and your gear
bleak spoke
shrouded ttk echoing setups
balmy condor
so it's not REALLY 100% crit
and unlike MA, it's not all your damage, it's just one ability
whole mason
I mean maybe at the beginning of dance muts could be better but to the end extra one or two stacks from mut would only affect one or two ticks that are already on high stacks, which may leads to ambush better?
balmy condor
I think there's a good chance that even if cold blood interacts with dots, it still won't be great
bleak spoke
yeh we get a shocking amount of crit from the tree as is
balmy condor
I mean maybe at the beginning of dance muts could be better but to the end extra...
yeh maybe
sin just shouldn't have ambush
tbh
gleaming fable
I feel like CB needs to work with Dots to even compare to MfD which is the "mirror" talent for the same row
balmy condor
like make it enabled from blindside obviously
but baseline there's no reason for ambush to exist
bleak spoke
like deadly precision just exists, lethality gives stray crit despite mostly giving crit damage, ma is just there, etc
balmy condor
it's fun to speculate and stuff but in the end it's just gonna be "oh it works" or "oh it doesn't work"
whole mason
sin just shouldn't have ambush
An extra level of ambush: when you perform ambush, you try to use your offhand weapon to mut.
balmy condor
An extra level of ambush: when you perform ambush, you try to use your offhand w...
yeh maybe, but then that's too close to just being a regular mut
bleak spoke
would be thematic if ambush became garrote like how it becomes shadowstrike imo
balmy condor
mut is 2 hits with the offhand hit being 50%
bleak spoke
just makes sense to me kinda
whole mason
yeh maybe, but then that's too close to just being a regular mut
Dmg and CP say no
marble hemlock
I think there's a good chance that even if cold blood interacts with dots, it st...
Agreed.
whole mason
Similar but not close
marble hemlock
Unless we have a DoT that massively exceeds the DPE of any other ability
bleak spoke
@marble hemlock i was thinking that if it worked with the carnage garrote or the carnage rupture
then that would be the actual truly nuts usecase
sick edge
Do we know if SS works with dance? Applying the logic of MA works with dance, then I assume yes?
marble hemlock
We don't know yet how carnage will interact with damage boosts that are typically only designed to work on individual casts
balmy condor
Do we know if SS works with dance? Applying the logic of MA works with dance, th...
yes
bleak spoke
yeh its likely it'll just buff the target you cast it on
marble hemlock
I.e. will shrouded work with it? Will one cast of garrote from stealth with carnage generate 24 combo points?
bleak spoke
that would be pretty funny
marble hemlock
Etc.
balmy condor
Do we know if SS works with dance? Applying the logic of MA works with dance, th...
just gonna put this here
bleak spoke
wonder if they'll code subterfuge to work for sin like it works for sub on live
where having it extends dance by a second or whatever
it wouldn't be good
but i think that's why they disjointed it from the garrote dmg buff
on the class tree
its okay if we don't take subterfuge because it's pvp utility yeah, like it's fairly compensated all over the tree
at least that's the way i see it
balmy condor
subterfuge is a dead talent on the side of the tree in pve atm
idk what the intent of it is
bleak spoke
like what we know as subterfuge, in terms of the dmg bonus to garrotes from stealth have kind of been spread through the tree
balmy condor
since the garrote stuff is already in the sin tree
bleak spoke
https://i.imgur.com/09MLmJK.png like this literally reads basically the same as subterfuge garrote, evne if it's 50% and not 90%
marble hemlock
pvp one
balmy condor
taking improved garrote and subterfuge actually doesn't do anything
marble hemlock
multiple cheapshots
balmy condor
which is whack
bleak spoke
well yeah that's what i mean by disjointed whispyr like they took out the dmg component
marble hemlock
or being able to sap from dance etc.
bleak spoke
yeah sapping from subterfuge is so good
marble hemlock
thats why its so far up among all the other non-dps talents
balmy condor
yeah I'm saying it's even worse than disjointed
marble hemlock
cause its only a stun/cc utility talent one now
balmy condor
it's just not useful
bleak spoke
nah by disjointed i'm just really saying they split it up
i think it's okay for the tree to have pvp only talents
i mean like that's what wound poison is yeah?
balmy condor
yeh
bleak spoke
only thing i think i'm vaguely miffed about is the position of cheat on the class tree tbh
because it feels like whether it feels like a liability will hinge on whether cold blood is good
and if it's not then it'll feel bad to take cheat
marble hemlock
call me crazy, but if picking deeper strata twice gives 7 max CP, picking subter+imp garrote should give 6 seconds of stealth benefits not 3
bleak spoke
if it works like that it'd be pretty cool
i imagine it won't though
seli what do you think of amp poison
marble hemlock
but again, subterfuge is put in a spot where it compete with other utility-only talents, so it makes sense to no have any dps benefits at all
balmy condor
by that logic should also extend dance :P
bleak spoke
i'm of the opinion that like an envenom prio in an m+ pack will make amp poison feel so good even if it's not numerically great
marble hemlock
but its useful for pvp (same as the wound talent on the opposite side) or for some niche cc uses in m+ or potentially bosses
so i think its in a "good" spot
bleak spoke
yeh like if this variation of subterfuge was competing with MA then it would be annoying
marble hemlock
its out of the way and not bothering anybody, really. and pvp players might pick it up.
bleak spoke
but as it is, it's not necessarily a dps gain and also shadowrunner despite having the same icon as ns is only the fast af boi part of it
marble hemlock
yeah, they uncoupled utility from damage benefits and put utility above the 8point line so you "pick your poison", quite literally in some cases
bleak spoke
i do think i would prefer it if they swapped shadowrunner's slot with improved sap
i feel safer when i have more movespeed
btw does anyone know hwo thistle tea is gonna work
balmy condor
you press it and it gives energy
bleak spoke
it looks about as good as the torghast version of it
marble hemlock
im just glad gouge isnt 45energy anymore, would be fucking pain without dirty tricks
marble hemlock
tea might be more useful than people make it out to be. dance without tea will feel awful, for example
bleak spoke
in single probably
marble hemlock
for assa in particular
our builders cost so much energy
youre gonna starve energy before youre halfway through your dance
bleak spoke
the way i clicked my tree, could take it over vigor pretty easily
balmy condor
seli on the copium
bleak spoke
this is what i imagine i'll end up playing in m+
tbh i don't really really believe in dance per se until we see more technical details
dense herald
man i really am not sold on SBS
balmy condor
sbs is strong
bleak spoke
sbs is just so great for energy
marble hemlock
seli on the copium
would the tight spender enjoyers please go back to the corner where they belong?
bleak spoke
i'm also kind of biased i think it's the best covenant ability they made for us out of the four
dense herald
yeah its more the theme and feel of it, i dont want to be reminded of covenants. and its ranged which feels weird
balmy condor
would the tight spender enjoyers please go back to the corner where they belong?
if you want thistle tea so bad go back to classic and leave me alone
bleak spoke
tight spender on sin
torn atlas
because it feels like whether it feels like a liability will hinge on whether co...
I feel like it should have at least one other enabling talent to unlock it, rather than being forced into a certain final wing of the tree. Like it shouldn't be a auto pick, but it shouldn't be pigeon holed either imo, specially when it seems each spec is going to 100% run that side for SD.
bleak spoke
yeh basically the position of cheat is kind of like how i feel about the position of seal fate
i can't imagine playing the game without it so both of them being so deep is a little bit awkward
i wonder if one of the bigger problems of taking dance will actually end up being FW
like 2 points to do nothing at the bottom of the tree seems bad to me
and while one minute is in truth a relatively short cd, this isn't exactly shadow dance with cdr like sub has
balmy condor
you can easily play without either
bleak spoke
you can but i don't want to
balmy condor
then the tree is doing its job
bleak spoke
yeh
i think it's easier for me to drop cheat, i did it a bit this tier without really getting rekt but
seal fate also feels very iconic to me as like part and parcel of the sin experience
idk
celest ruin
remember when we had to spend 3 points for 100% cheat death
balmy condor
no because I'm less than 35 years old
bleak spoke
i thought he was talking about a build of the talent tree that i didn't see for a moment
marble hemlock
if you want thistle tea so bad go back to classic and leave me alone
Kinda out of nowhere but okay
spice spire
no because I'm less than 35 years old
Bro?
marble hemlock
You wouldnt survive a week without me
spice spire
I wouldn’t survive a week without nova*
spice spire
No - unironically
marble hemlock
yeah but that was the good cheat
balmy condor
and how old are you?
marble hemlock
not the garbage one
balmy condor
my point stands
oak sky
i remember when sire puddles were red
balmy condor
happy birthday you old fuck
marble hemlock
current cheat sucks
bleak spoke
i remember when blindside was an execute for- WHY CAN'T THEY JUST LET BLINDSIDE DIE MADGE
why dont you like current cheat
marble hemlock
sec
bleak spoke
the huge wall after it procs feels pretty decent to me
we have an execute
it's zoldycks
marble hemlock
need to kill a bird
oak sky
it's zoldycks
yeah people want to kill that too
bleak spoke
but why
spice spire
i remember when blindside was an execute for- WHY CAN'T THEY JUST LET BLINDSIDE ...
IT WAS DISPATCH BLINDSIDE WORKED THE SAME WAY JUST WITH DISPATCH OVER AMBUSH WHICH MADE IT BETTER 
bleak spoke
i can see why someone might want to kill, say, tiny toxic blade
oak sky
ttb is kinda fine as a non capstone
bleak spoke
which is honestly such a fucking milquetoast effect i'm surprised it continues to exist constantly
like why isn't that just double dose or something
balmy condor
IT WAS DISPATCH BLINDSIDE WORKED THE SAME WAY JUST WITH DISPATCH OVER AMBUSH WHI...
so true bestie
oak sky
is ttk not boring too?
bleak spoke
it feels more meshed with our actual kit imo
oak sky
theyre both boring
but ttb is fine now that its not a capstone
i dont really care anymore
bleak spoke
yeh
like i feel like even if it gave you the exact amount of dps it currently does
if it read "shiv now gives your next cast of envenom x more dmg"
would make me like it infinitely more
marble hemlock
why dont you like current cheat
cause its just awful
bleak spoke
even if it was fucking tiny amounts
is it really actually awful
it feels pretty strong to me 
marble hemlock
basically
it used to work differnetly
what it does now:
you take damage, you proc cheat, you absorb any overkill and get set to 10% hp with a 85% mitigation
what it used to do:
you take damage, you proc cheat, you completely avoid the entire damage that put you there. if you were below 10% before the hit, you would get healed back to 10%. the mitigation was higher. and if you had 100% hp and got oneshot, you would proc cheat and still have 100% hp.
bleak spoke
wtf
that sounds busted
to be fair it's like already busted right now as is like 85% is the thiccest wall in the game now that dispersion's been nerfed yeah?
marble hemlock
basically the issue with cheat now is that its nice for big one-taps
but if youre at 1% hp
and get killed
bleak spoke
but worse for rot dmg
marble hemlock
you still die to the next attack
which is why cheat is pretty trash nowadays for pvp
and has been for a long time
bleak spoke
yeh
for pve content though i think in most cases if you take a life ending hit you're usually actually decently safe immediately after
marble hemlock
its mostly the fact that youre not being healed back to 10% hp that matters, tho
burnt latch
Pvp 
oak sky
warcieft 
bleak spoke
the healing component would be nice yeh
marble hemlock
with a 90% mitigation, being healed to 10% meant your EHP would be the same as if you were at 100% hp
burnt latch
warcieft <:peepo:585741987798581268>
Hi 
bleak spoke
yeh caut is so nuts
marble hemlock
and its why i hate cheat, cause its really onyl good for big onetaps, and you have plenty of mitigation for those in the form of feint/elusiveness anyway (and you usually have big raid CDs up as well)
bleak spoke
elusiveness feint is probably the craziest wall like % mitigated to cd length
burnt latch
Crimson vial 
bleak spoke
i can't think of much that's even close
spice spire
its mostly the fact that youre not being healed back to 10% hp that matters, tho
DIY it with condensed anima sphere 
marble hemlock
elusiveness feint is probably the craziest wall like % mitigated to cd length
dark pact exists.
bleak spoke
yeh
is it 4 times more ehp than elu feint tho?
like its a minute cd
in a way they're kind of the same right
250% of your current hp as an overshield
marble hemlock
theres really no boss in existence where you actually got benefit out of using feint on CD
bleak spoke
or not the same just kind of close in a way
yeh
skycaptain kragg if you have to bait the spit actually
man 8.1 was wild
marble hemlock
thats the healer job
bleak spoke
truege
burnt latch
balmy condor
theres really no boss in existence where you actually got benefit out of using f...
Pre-nerf jailer p1 for 11 minutes straight
Perfect boss
marble hemlock
tru
raven vapor
ignore my previous message, didn't play mech patch didn't realise they were a set 
night delta
theres really no boss in existence where you actually got benefit out of using f...
quick, I need to find a boss that does raid-wide damage precisely every 15 seconds
marble hemlock
jailer
perfectly alternates between bombs and torments
often overlapping so you can have it up for both
its kind of the perfect fight for it
think that was the only fight i played elusiveness instead of leeching
balmy condor
It does not double dip, the bomb debuff is not aoe
hollow river
good thing elusiveness is getting a nerf going into DF right 
marble hemlock
both bombs and torment have aoe and normal damage components
bombs deal ticking damage on each player which elusiveness works on, then explode which feint works on. same for torments
thin ingot
its kinda fucked we cant take kingsbane and dragon tempered blades at the same time
night delta
its kinda fucked we cant take kingsbane and dragon tempered blades at the same t...
it's be kinda fucked if we could though. If the combo is too strong (which it probably is), both have to be nerfed so much that individually they are worthless
or else picking both will be "mandatory" and we'll be left with almost no spare talent points to customize our build even a little
copper hazel
yeh itll literally be mandatory and leave no other space to make choices
meaningful choice be meaningful in situations that change
balmy condor
Kingsbane wasn’t coming back if it could be taken with dragon tempered at the same time
balmy condor
I had it written and then realz reworked the tree what do you want from me man
copper hazel
i knowwwwww
balmy condor
copper hazel
copper hazel
niceee. Did wowhead set the deadline? You could always try to get an extension due to the massive changes
but then at what point does extending a deadline just bleed into the next set of changes 
balmy condor
niceee. Did wowhead set the deadline? You could always try to get an extension d...
Wowhead deadlines for articles like the impressions are usually “here’s an assignment, we want it back in about a week”
For guide updates like for season 4 it’s “changes go live on the 30th have them done by then”
copper hazel
that not too bad then, it just throw spanners in the works when big changes happen
balmy condor
And I was like hey I need more time and they go “yeah just whenever, just get it done sooner pls”
copper hazel
at least they understand, not forcing you to put out an article you would be unhappy about
balmy condor
Yeah they’re good about that
The wishlist stuff was more rigid because they put all 3 specs into one post
So they’re like “have this done by Sunday”
Because they need to put them all together and don’t want to lag behind on 2 specs because the third is slow
But we have a good amount of freedom
Even template/format wise
I’ve colored out of the lines a couple times formatting wise but they read it over and were like “yeah this is really nicely organized I don’t have an issue with this”
My wishlist for example followed a way different structure than what they gave as an example
I did the same thing with the tier set analysis earlier in 9.2
copper hazel
thats cool they allow some freedom to create your work, nothing worse than having to conform to a structure that doesnt work for the content at hand
balmy condor
Yeah the one-off pieces have a lot of creative freedom
The hard written guides not so much, we have to conform to the templates a lot more on those so all the guides look the same
copper hazel
yeh thats understandable
if there were far fewer classes, you could probably get away with different guide styles, but not for this game
balmy condor
Yeh
pulsar apex
ello. crappy new assassin here. Someone said to record and post logs. so im doing it here. its only from LFR. i know thats a zero mechanics lol zone but thats all the data i have. returning player/I've only been 60 for a week and I'm learning the ropes. I'm joining a heroic clear type friends group, and want to be an asset not a liability.
im also in the wrong spec. i joined in "outdoor zerith mortis mode"
thin ingot
anyone knows if damage reduction is additive or multiplicative?
like if i stoneform over feint am i getting full benefit or its getting dr?
balmy condor
If you have 2 effects reducing the same damage sources, they apply sequentially
100 damage with a 50% reduction is 50, and then a 10% reduction on top of that would be 45
night delta
so basically yeah, multiplicative
marble bear
So like I've looked at all the trees and read some of the forum posts and things but how is assasin looking for dragonflight so far? I know it's way to early for a definitive answer but is it going in a good direction or is it more like more of the same?
balmy condor
Depends what “More of the same” means to you I guess
But the feedback atm is overwhelmingly positive
night delta
<a:bussin:857118197614116866>
new things I discovered I hate : this gif/emote
marble bear
I actually do like the gameplay style of assasination I just feel like my spec gets outperformed by so many others
and I know that shouldn't matter but
night delta
And yeah, the assassin rogue tree is really satisfying, with both greatest hits from before and new exciting ideas
balmy condor
I actually do like the gameplay style of assasination I just feel like my spec g...
We’re top of single target fights right now
balmy condor
Well then carnage is good
But we’re still gonna be single target whores
Always have been
bleak spoke
i think for high keys sin prio will actually be gigacracked
marble bear
Sub rogue is too complicated for my tiny brain
balmy condor
Wait
bleak spoke
in m+ sub is like infinitely less complicated than sin
lmao
you have like 2 buttons
balmy condor
Sin in m+ is like 9000000x more complicated
bleak sky
Sub two button
marble bear
I guess it's because I've been doing it for a while ><;;;
bleak sky
Sin 
balmy condor
marble bear
I tried sub for the first time in years like literally a month ago once and felt like I wasn't doing anything useful
bleak spoke
limber lion
It's literally 2 buttons, you should definitely be able to output more dps
Except maybe 1-2 targets
bleak spoke
yeh it does take a bit of getting used to but like compared to sin it should feel significantly easier
with just a bit of practice i think
balmy condor
HEY ITS THREE OKAY SOMETIMES YOU HIT BP AND OTHER TIMES YOU HIT EVISC AND THE CHOICE IS VERY COMPLICATED AND SUPER CONFUSING ITS ALOT OF SKLLL EXPRESSION YOU DONT GET IT
bleak spoke
i don't think that's a bad thing though, like when a spec isn't super complex imo there's more room to focus on the encounter
limber lion
bleak spoke
its definitely easier to hit ss/bp over and over while trying to not fall over to something stupid in a pull
limber lion
i don't think that's a bad thing though, like when a spec isn't super complex im...
Yeh that's why a bunch of people like Sin for raiding
Lower apm, more maintenance, less reactionary
bleak spoke
yeh, i really liked slow sin
limber lion
Except now when we go zoomzoom
bleak spoke
like the 8.1/8.2 like 34 apm one
bleak spoke
i usually sat there watching my ranged dps do some utterly 4head shit
limber lion
I'm not an Envenom/Mutilate gamer myself
marble bear
I do notice in M+ I would do a ton of boss damage
spice spire
bleak sky
Yeah sin boss damage is very good in m+
bleak spoke
i liked the font/coral era
gusty mirage
8.2 was the worst imo, but that's just me
Lucid made it feel less shit
But god sin in raid was 
bleak spoke
but really i think i just really really loved coral
marble bear
I love the dots and I love love love cut to the chase XD the other two specs I have to keep applying snd but sin's like
I got you
bleak spoke
coral is the greatest trinket of all time
gusty mirage
but really i think i just really really loved coral
Everyone did man
balmy condor
Lucid made it feel less shit
I’ve been playing too much maplestory I read lucid and got excited
gusty mirage
Except Cev
limber lion
Never understood the hype for it
bleak spoke
the agency of the trinket vs the impact it had
limber lion
It's like another 2min stat trinket except you press it once in the beginning as well
gusty mirage
Chunky crit good damage
balmy condor
https://tenor.com/view/stop-it-get-some-help-gif-15058124
Bro lucid prog next month probably gonna be GIGA sick
gusty mirage
Bro lucid prog next month probably gonna be GIGA sick
You’re not going to scammaz me into playing 
bleak spoke
I’m a big fan of anything that makes you feel like when you press it you can make a difference
limber lion
So stat trinkets?
balmy condor
You’re not going to scammaz me into playing <:yepthink:1000441839733719083>
Don’t need to, @eager river will do it with me
bleak spoke
Even if it’s just an illusion
vast loom
big fan of sigil
bleak sky
5 min trinket
bleak sky
Cache sucks
bleak spoke
Yeh cache sucks
bleak sky
Hate cache
bleak spoke
For the reasons coral owns
gusty mirage
Don’t need to, <@115253743993356288> will do it with me
Don’t blame you, he’s cuter than me
bleak sky
Give DFV and hateful chain
vast loom
i just hate cache cuz i havnt updated my WA for it and it rarely works right on pull so its a gamble if its showing the right cache 🙂
bleak spoke
You feel like you have less control over it