assassination

[dark token]

Bruh fan of knives popoff in m+ trust

Echoing blades 2.0

[balmy condor]

you guys can drool into your cheerios alone

[subtle tundra]

and take deez 2

[bleak sky]

no

[dark token]

No

[balmy condor]

really good

[subtle tundra]

i see yoou baddddddddddddddddddddddddddd

[slow marsh]

Vicious venom pog talent

[dark token]

I have 2 points to spend with nothin better than that fan of knives node for overall m+ dmg

[subtle tundra]

i am smart

LISTEN TO ME

[balmy condor]

you're just going to play whatever we end up saying is highest damage anyways varas

what's the point

[slow marsh]

I like new vv a lot better than the old one

[dark token]

What's better iron wire or atrophic poison

[subtle tundra]

no i dont

[dark token]

[subtle tundra]

pretty sure if i did i would be playing more necrolord in m+

i play for fun, not for overall

[whole mason]

Not sure about 1/3 alacrity and CT, but most of them are there.

[vast loom]

yeah new one is better for sure than old one. it just seems pretty low impact, i never think to buff the dmg of mutilate, same with TTB 300% dmg on something that barely competes with offhand mutilate hits

[slow marsh]

1/3 alac is maybe fine

Unlikely you go 3 anyways

[dark token]

All I know is the garrote build is back bitches I love this dev

[slow marsh]

But it's free

[limber lion]

You need EP my guy

[whole mason]

If not fine, I can sacrifice one lethality to alacrity

[slow marsh]

I'm sad they nerfed ep

[dark token]

Ep op

[whole mason]

Ep and cttc will be determined later maybe. I'm open to ep.

[brave gyro]

i wonder if they'll make CT worth on Single target

[ebon notch]

and an adblocker

[dark token]

I wish

That way I can tell my RL I'm not padding it's max single target

[vast loom]

it might be with lethal dose

[dark token]

Also keeping up the additional bleed makes sin more interesting than just slamming CP into envonom brainlessly

[whole mason]

CT will be some percentage itself and 2%for lethal dose. Maybe worth it?

[slow marsh]

Ideally with proper tuning CT wouldn't be optimal for ST

even with lethal dose

[dark token]

Ideally it is

What's wrong with having a single target spell that's good in aoe

[slow marsh]

As much as I pushed CT in ST in the past

[whole mason]

Anyway, if tuned that way, I can switch it to MM

[dark token]

Other classes have that too

[whole mason]

Or something else

[dark token]

Like dh eyebeam

[slow marsh]

Because it's not good design

[dark token]

Or dh everything

[slow marsh]

Which is why I say ideally

imo CT should be competitive on 2t if not slightly better, and strictly better on 3t. If CT is more ST damage alone, it's bad tuning

[dark token]

That's why I always liked stuff like xuen or monk clones better as a 2mins than vendetta

[whole mason]

Maybe not a good situational design? But goes with some adds contribution.

[dark token]

It's good ST and not useless aoe

[brave gyro]

On one hand, it can feel awkward to use CT on ST. But on the other hand I love slapping bosses with 15 different debuffs

[vast loom]

Deathmark isnt gonna buff CT so it might be a lot less value than it currently is with vend

[dark token]

We have other talents we can take for aoe now, CT baseline adding another bleed makes the spec more interactive than let's face it pretty boring gameplay just envonom

[slow marsh]

I agree having another maintenance bleed / debuff is fun, but having it also be our primary aoe damage while being better in ST than other options is bad

[night delta]

exactly my opinion

[dark token]

Ask for hemo back

[night delta]

it's completely counter-intuitive

[dark token]

Yes and no, our aoe damage is not significant enough for it to be a problem and otherwise the spec suffers being silod into pure aoe or St

[slow marsh]

I'm not necessarily for just envenom spamming, just so that's clear. Just talking from design stand-point

[dark token]

And other classes don't have that issue

[slow marsh]

Yes but you're missing the point

[dark token]

Makes it much better on these st raid fights with small add spawns

Anyway I hope that it breaks even

So anyone can play how they want

[brave gyro]

tbf if we have to go the DR poison, it wouldn't surprise me if its not worth going CT, even if its competitive

[vast loom]

i think we have enough points to get a good build with DR poison

[brave gyro]

Now the question is, would it be better to have CT, or Shrouded suffocation, since its usually a bottom point

[limber lion]

It's not a fair comparison though because you're currently choosing between PB and CT, but in the new tree you'll likely be choosing between CTTC and CT if anything

[dark token]

Max Dr build iron wire Dr poison reduce boss dmg by 18% !!!!!1!1!!1!

[vast loom]

ah true, CTTC feels so bad to not be baseline imo lol

[balmy condor]

I'm okay with casting slice 6 times in a fight

[vast loom]

is that

[dark token]

^

[vast loom]

[brave gyro]

How? its 3.6% with master poisoner and 7.2% during shiv windows, or am i missing something?

[balmy condor]

no

[slow marsh]

I'm the kind that would take 1/2 cttc and be ok with recasting slice

[balmy condor]

that's actually just you basically never press slice

it's not relevant to me

[dark token]

👍

[balmy condor]

just set it and then wait 15 minutes for it to expire

[dark token]

I would always take 1/2 cttc

And try to drop a point anywhere else in the tree

[balmy condor]

technically we don't know if it even interacts like that, chances are it probably won't

[slow marsh]

I hope it wont

[balmy condor]

and he's talkin about iron wire on top

[brave gyro]

ah i see, ty for clarification

[fleet anchor]

I talked about it a little bit last night, but looking at the grand scheme of the points layouts it's actually hard to make a strong argument for CttC being an optimal choice

[dark token]

shiv Dr poison gives rogue ice block for 1 sec

[fleet anchor]

It's basically QoL with a small DPS increase

But competing with a lot stronger options given its placement

[slow marsh]

I think it's just about as perfect of a talent choice as you can get

[dark token]

Everything outside of pure patchwerk the CT talent is way worth over cttc

[brave gyro]

If CT is viable, maybe something like this

[dark token]

Bonespike? St?

[limber lion]

Why not?

[slow marsh]

I feel like if CT is viable then you'd probably also want carnage?

[balmy condor]

bonespike st is fine

[brave gyro]

perma bleed for lethal

[dark token]

Only in m+ lol

[brave gyro]

cheap cp

[fleet anchor]

I'm talking about ST also

[gusty mirage]

cheap CP & free damage

[limber lion]

You're not choosing between Flag and Sbs here brudda

[gusty mirage]

oh the humanity

[dark token]

Unless you are going giga pad carnage build, in which case say more I'm interested

[balmy condor]

we've come full circle

[slow marsh]

I mean CT is pad anyways right

lol

[dark token]

Ideally no

[balmy condor]

the tree is so good, we're actually complaining about the best parts of shadowlands being dogshit

[dark token]

Hahaha

[fleet anchor]

I mean I don't personally think CttC is that good ever.

[slow marsh]

this makes me hot

[fleet anchor]

It's just people being lazy

😛

[dark token]

My only complaint is that monk talent tree will be the last to release in about 3 months right before dragonlands drops

[copper hazel]

have you recovered from your mental breakdown last night @balmy condor after you wrote the whole reaction post

[gusty mirage]

cttc was just a feel thing

[dark token]

I guarantee it

[slow marsh]

And sometimes a little laziness is fine

[gusty mirage]

but ngl

[brave gyro]

kinda reminds me of legion, where most of the complaints were about minor things

[gusty mirage]

with the 4pc sometimes it feels like shit envenoming to keep up SnD

[fleet anchor]

But let's put this into perspective

[balmy condor]

it's halfway rewritten already

[gusty mirage]

I'd rather hard cast it

[copper hazel]

nice dood

[slow marsh]

I mean just look at all the people that refused to talent mfd

[vast loom]

with 1 point in CTTC how often would we need to refresh Snd? would 1 point even save that many casts especially when you want to go into a CD window with a good snd timeing

[fleet anchor]

In many builds 2 points of CttC is gonna compete with Maim, Mangle + Blindslide

Blindside alone right now is likely a 7-8% talent

2 points of CttC is about 3%

[balmy condor]

but having to update guides and write articles while being on a laptop with sketchy internet on vacation

is not the move

I'm not having a good time

[fleet anchor]

It's not going to be taken other by severely lazy people

😛

[dark token]

Cttc 👎

[slow marsh]

I'm happy to see this

[gusty mirage]

stop calling me out like this

[vast loom]

i just worry we might have too many plates to spin if we dont have CTTC

[slow marsh]

I thought it seemed quite good with the new switch ups

[dark token]

Blindside felt a little strange actually

[fleet anchor]

Maim, Mangle+Blindside will probably be like triple or more the DPS from 2 points as CttC so people are likely just gonna have to suck it up and cast SnD 5 times a fight. The humanity. 😄

[slow marsh]

That's what people said about CT in ST

[balmy condor]

you mean exactly as many as we do now?

[gusty mirage]

that's the cool thing about trees vs what we have now

[dark token]

Taking it felt bad unless low energy build, but a low energy build felt bad in general

[gusty mirage]

you can make that decision if you want to

sacrifice 4% damage for a QoL thing

[marble hemlock]

people suddenly realizing cttc fucking sucks

nice

[dark token]

So I never liked blindside despite it making the spec more interestive

[marble hemlock]

took us long enough

[fleet anchor]

lol I mean I've never liked it 😛

[rich wren]

Good ol cttc

[gusty mirage]

I like cttc

[dark token]

Cttc is grand melee for sin aka dumpster

[marble hemlock]

psure im the onyl oen who built his DF trees with EP instead of cttc

[balmy condor]

I said Cttc sucked and got absolutely clowned on for a patch and a half

[gusty mirage]

what

how

[rich wren]

Lmao

[slow marsh]

I seem to remember when they re-added cttc we were saying it's not as good as it seems

but no

[fleet anchor]

CttC is funny because frankly Assassination has the most chill time keeping up SnD because Assassination has fuck all to do half the time once DoTs are up. 😄

[whole mason]

I cast SnD in early 9.0and it feels so normal and good actually.

[gusty mirage]

there's an opportunity cost for keeping GM vs something that's passively caked into envenom

????

[dark token]

And it makes you cast envenom in m+ aoe which is also dumpster

[gusty mirage]

nothing makes you cast envenom

you can hard cast snd if you choose

[vast loom]

yeah i guess without vend 4p we dont have 20 secs where we dont want to hit snd

[fleet anchor]

Well tbf we had an opportunity cost for CttC

[dark token]

Don't think that's optimal except pre pack

[fleet anchor]

Because it was packaged with removing the energy regen component from SnD

[balmy condor]

read name who you're responding to
recognize no point
do not respond

[dark token]

Hyperbole is fun

[vast loom]

well we would want full time envemon during KB right? but i guess that just means refresh snd before kb

[gusty mirage]

I mean pre-4pc you'd want to envenom as a filler eventually anyway otherwise you'd sit on CP twiddling your dick

seeing as we're discussing a m+ setting

[balmy condor]

slice is like 50 seconds long

it's not as if you have to sit there and refresh it every other global

[rich wren]

Seems like there's a bunch of cp flowing too

[night delta]

Agreed, cttc is only really impactful on a QoL standpoint

[balmy condor]

if you're terrified about having to maintain a 50 second buff, wait until I tell you about garrote and rupture

[night delta]

Especially rank 2 if you already have rank 1

[rigid tartan]

honestly guys, what is your estimation which spec would be the best for castle nathria encounters next week? I am kind of leaning towards outlaw even before getting the proc effect weapons, with current max out mythic gear

[fleet anchor]

CttC feels like it would be ok as a 1-pointer but 2 points is quite expensive given the tree structure

[balmy condor]

yep

[vast loom]

okay you guys convinced me CTTC bad, after thinking about how often i press SND on sub its really not that bad

especially without 4p

[violet jackal]

You won't catch me casting slice n dice more than 3 times per encounter

[fleet anchor]

2 points on a so-so talent seems expected high in the tree if it's a required path node but if it's optional it's not really an efficient choice

Elaborate Planning is obviously very very significantly better than CttC

[spice surge]

Even more expensive if you intended to get the fok talent locked behind it, since its almost purely a ST option

[slow marsh]

yeah i dont see any path that you actually can afford cttc now that i look at it

[fleet anchor]

And nobody will take Poisoned Katar ever so it's not gating anything important

[night delta]

I mean, unless you really slacked on farming the currency, you shouldn't even lose 4p at any point during re-gearing anyway

[vast loom]

okay diffent question, how much value is TTB? it seems hella weak based on the avg hit ive seen on live, it would hit for like maybe 4k i think

wat

[slow marsh]

TTB gets you KB who cares

also saves you 20 energy

[whole mason]

cttc isnot that kind of optional

[fleet anchor]

Higher than you might think

[slow marsh]

is more important

[whole mason]

EP or cttc, pathing nodes

[vast loom]

double shiv does give it a lot more value

well

not realyl

i guess

[slow marsh]

Like this seems pretty good for now idk

[vast loom]

its 1 extra in a fight right? unless you hold

[whole mason]

And has to spend 2for next level, what a pain.

[slow marsh]

I think PB will contend directly with blindside

depending on tunign

[vast loom]

shrouded > sbs?

[slow marsh]

yeah shrouded cuz dance

[fleet anchor]

SBS is probably better

[vast loom]

i was thinking no blindside to have sbs and shourded

[night delta]

double shiv value is when you can hold to have them back to back during KB methinks

[balmy condor]

I just want to point out 2 charges of shiv does not mean double the shivs

It means 1 extra shiv on a fight

[night delta]

TTB is just a (small) cherry on top

[brave gyro]

i love sbs - free dam, cheap cp, perma 2% for lethal

[vast loom]

yeah i said that i thinnk

[fleet anchor]

I feel like people atm are undervaluing almost all the Covenant abilities because we're used to it being a zero-sum comparison between Covenant abilities

Going from nothing to SBS is like

A lot of damage

lol

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[vast loom]

sbs is just perma 2% dmg too

[rich wren]

Low cost, high fun

[slow marsh]

fair

[fleet anchor]

Sepsis too

[slow marsh]

what about sepsis in the dance build tho

i was thinking about that

[rich wren]

Sepsis actually is attractive in it's new place

[sleek sundial]

with the change to PB did Dragon tempered lose favor?

[night delta]

sepsis CD not align

big sad

[slow marsh]

sure it does

every other sepsis is in dance

[rich wren]

Every other

[sleek sundial]

i love dragon tempered but also never played with KB

[muted ivy]

it does make using shiv more of a decision rather than just pressing it on CD tho which is nice

[night delta]

every other is sadder than every 1 though

[alpine latch]

!cev

damn, there's not a command for his nameplates?

Now I gotta search it like a pleb

[spice surge]

Also isnt shrouded kinda meh, 15% is kinda low compared to the massive amount it used to increase in bfa

[vast loom]

Double shiv just lets us get full shiv uptime during KB and Deathmark

[night delta]

also lets us shiv on CD and have a charge left for disenrage in m+

[vestal wren]

i did sims on it for sub, and they seem fairly impactful

[fleet anchor]

Also you can make a build that gets both tbh

[vestal wren]

does not change that echoing with 3(4) points seems not that appealing

[vast loom]

yeah thats what my current idea is

[meager granite]

Im with you on that hill

[slow marsh]

shrouded seems real good with sepsis

as long as the sepsis stealth thing works this go around

[fleet anchor]

Yeah we'll have to see about that

[vast loom]

i just dunno if its worth losing 2% dmg uptime

ontop of SBS dmg

[muted ivy]

would be very annoying if it didn't :(

[night delta]

if your raid team isn't salty you don't pick Atrophic, you can drop it and shrouded for 2/2 PB

which I think is a dps increase

[rich wren]

Yeah. The odds of that for a lot of us are low though

[vast loom]

ethical atrophic pick every time unless we have 2 sins lol

another devo

[night delta]

just wait until atrophic moves to the class tree

[vast loom]

is just good

now restless crew on the other hand thats just scary

[main solar]

It isn't exactly another devo though, because its only from damage coming directly from the boss, not any environmental damage

[vast loom]

true

there might be cases where its bad

but then its pog

when we can unspec it

[rich wren]

Yeah, but you also won't ever skip it probably. Why would you ever in a raiding scenario want the boss to do more dmg

[night delta]

when healers parse <10% and nobody ever dies ?

I agree on prog it's not ideal

[spice surge]

Not in a raid, but in m+ you might want crippling instead

[vast loom]

yeah M+ atro doesnt seem nearly as good

maybe tryan you might NEED atro tho

[rich wren]

Sure, farm you can not take it I guess, kind of a moot point to me though

[manic matrix]

isn't exsanguinate + deathmark combo insane?

with master assassin

[main solar]

Not saying its bad, but we should probably set some expectations that its not as godly as it looks at first glance.

[vast loom]

maybe if we need some sort of burst

but i could see it being cool

[marble hemlock]

what if blindside would give access to either ambush or stealth garrote?

[vast loom]

that could be neat

how long does blindside last?

[spice surge]

Deathmark, kingsbane, shadow dance and exsang with a cold blooded stealth garrote

[meager granite]

Stealth garotte ?

Oh i see

[gusty mirage]

what if you weren't so cute that you had hundreds of simps?

[vast loom]

was exsang bad or was it just bad compared to alacrity?

[slow marsh]

kind of same tho

[manic matrix]

but would garrote actually be the strongest dot to use cold blood on

[main solar]

exsang kinda bad, long discussion though

[vast loom]

it would let us fit a 2nd rupture/garrote inside deathmark

but idk how applying a rupture at the end of death mark works

[manic matrix]

I don't think it works like the current 4P tbh

[marble hemlock]

i dont

[manic matrix]

because it clearly says while marked

in the tooltip

[gusty mirage]

what if I count for 100?

I simp you

[vast loom]

yeah but the wording could mean that when it applies it applies 2 ruptures instead

[marble hemlock]

you count for as many as your highest parse

[main solar]

One of our community figures could do a much better job explaining exsang than I could. But if the only thing going for it is that it works with deathmark, it seems kinda shitty for a 45s cooldown to only be useful every 2mins

[balmy condor]

I mean obviously you would use it between still

It’s pretty extra ticks

But the big value is Deathmark

[vast loom]

it not competeing with alacrity is a big deal i assume

but it also competes now with like every thing elseLOL

[marble hemlock]

If you have a buffed bleed like a Stealth Garrote or Nightstalker Rupture, Exsang doesnt change the damage that specific application does. So if you have 15 ticks worth of big rupture, exsang will not change that number. All it does is make those 15 ticks go by faster, and the actual DPS gain is from being able to refresh it sooner, which would be an unbuffed rupture. So Exsang only grants a bunch of non-buffed dot-ticks.

The only value of Exsang is if it allows you to get more ticks into a certain window, i.e. if You could previously only got 8 ticks into a 100% crit window, Exsang would allow all 15 ticks to benefit from it.

Thats the gist of it

[fleet anchor]

I mean right now Exsang with our current snapshotting/4pc approach is actually a DPS loss

Exsang is garbage tier lol

It's like some poster child for "sounds cool but really isn't"

[marble hemlock]

Thats why Exsang is potentially good in Combination with Deathmark/Shadowdance/Master Assassin and a bunch of other stuff

But Exsang by itself has and always will be garbage

Because it only gives extra unbuffed ticks

[subtle tundra]

shrouded suffocated garrotes in exsang

🤨

[manic matrix]

Shiv won't buff bleeds anymore so yeah you won't gain much from it off of other cds

[main solar]

Its also just unintuitive

[marble hemlock]

Unironically, DF might be incredibly good for Exsang

Since both Deathmark and Dance would be incredibly potent with it

[fleet anchor]

Double Shiv charge actually further devalues Exsang because we will be able to bank a charge to have double Shiv during Deathmark for full coverage anyway

[main solar]

most people will read it the first time and think "ticks twice as fast? double damage!"

[marble hemlock]

Without 2pc shiv doesnt do anything for bleeds anyway

[gusty mirage]

people read it the 100th time and still think that

[main solar]

true

[vast loom]

but it does buff KB

kb big

[fleet anchor]

Deathmark also basically generates infinite energy without Exsang on its own

[marble hemlock]

KB has no relation to Exsang

[fleet anchor]

By doubling VW

[slow marsh]

What are the chances of exsang getting reworked now that the tree is just about spot on

[sleek sundial]

is death mark considered as a bleed? like does it gives 2% on its own for lethal dose?

[fleet anchor]

Realistically Deathmark does what people think Exsang does. Only Deathmark is actually good. 🤣

[vast loom]

oh if Exsang makes deathmark go faster thats big cringe

[balmy condor]

Yeah definitely agree there, it’s not like 60%+ of our damage is nature

[sleek sundial]

thats what im thinking

[slow marsh]

just like current vend with 4p is how exsang maybe should've been all along

[slow marsh]

Hi how is your vacation

[fleet anchor]

Vendetta window allowing reapplication is definitely preferred to the one-shot approach of Exsang right now

But both are somewhat annoying in different ways

[slow marsh]

I agree

I much prefer mechanics like carnage or deathmark to just 'succ 2x faster'

[balmy condor]

Terrible thanks for asking

[marble hemlock]

Got any sims to back that number up?

else im calling

[slow marsh]

same for this ^^

[balmy condor]

Yeah right here

[manic matrix]

@balmy condor I meant that exsanguinate won't give us much off of bursts since shiv won't buff bleeds anymore

[marble hemlock]

batchest

[fleet anchor]

Also, funny observation with the charges. Shiv actually still buffs the damage of Shiv so with TTB we probably will often bank the extra charge so we can overlap Shivs. 😛

[sleek sundial]

that would feel so bad to play

[slow marsh]

cap

[balmy condor]

I mean poisons are getting buffed quite a lot, kingsbane is back on the menu, it’s obviously not 60% but we have a bleed tier set atm and it’s still around 30%

[fleet anchor]

Remember VV too

Bleeds = Poison also

[slow marsh]

VV stonkers

[manic matrix]

yeah but shiv buffing bleeds still would make exsanguinate much better in my opinion

for those uses when you don't have cds

in between

[fleet anchor]

Well

I guess depends on how Doomblade works

😄

[slow marsh]

or just like idk, get rid of exsang

[balmy condor]

There’s a lot of nature damage

[fleet anchor]

Doomblade I'm expecting to be wonky with VV I guess

[balmy condor]

Poison bomb back as well and buffed

[fleet anchor]

Probably won't interact

[slow marsh]

This what i'm wondering

[manic matrix]

yeah exsanguinate doesn't do anything to poison right?

[balmy condor]

Man fuck exsang

Who cares about exsang

[manic matrix]

[slow marsh]

like will the VV damage count for doomblade total or will we be able to drop doomblade for PB etc

[fleet anchor]

I assume they are distinct procs with a similar logic

[slow marsh]

nuke it

[balmy condor]

It surely won’t

[slow marsh]

I figure yeah it's an added effect and doesn't count

[balmy condor]

It’s “extra damage”

[manic matrix]

tbh I like when my dots tic fast and my energy fully blasts up but with all the stuff there is for free giving energy and CP you probably don't need it

[strange python]

how would you make exsang good tho

[slow marsh]

you delete it

[strange python]

they cant just remove it, theyd have to make an entire new node to replace it with

[slow marsh]

instantly better

not having exsang as an option instantly makes exsang good

It's good for like pvp to some degree but that's about it imo

[marble hemlock]

and then you can have all that extra energy and cast like 2 more mutilates and use another finisher for an envenom and then the meter explodes cause its infinite damage you gain from all those resources

[strange python]

Exsang is a cool concept, maybe it just needs a rework as to its functionality and it could be a beloved talent

[whole mason]

I think the key would be more ticks not faster ticks.

[strange python]

You could have exsang extend your bleeds on the target by like 10s yeah

[marble hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/throw-out-rage-parks-and-rec-nick-offerman-ron-swanson-gif-17688925

exsang needs this rework

[balmy condor]

that's probably worse actually

[strange python]

probably something more interesting but just throwing out ideas

[main solar]

Is the tuning to Lethal Dose just mostly clarification that its just our actual bleeds and poisons that affect it and not things like trinkets or am I missing something?

[whole mason]

Extend is also not more ticks.....

[balmy condor]

exsang just extending bleeds would be 0 dps

[slow marsh]

making exsang tick faster within the same period of time would maybe make it better. but then you get back into haste snapshotting and it's just a headache

[balmy condor]

yes

it used to be all damage, including autos and stuff

[strange python]

What if it extended them and gave them a faster tickrate based ont he duration remaining?

[marble hemlock]

replace exsang with vein ripper. keep the name.

and remove the vanish conditrion ofc

itd just be the button itself that does it

[slow marsh]

Honestly I'd be ok with trading scent of blood for vein ripper

[marble hemlock]

no

[slow marsh]

seems more interesting

[marble hemlock]

scent is gonna be massive

even if its only 40 or 50% extra agi at like 8 ruptures, thats 50% more damage.

[gusty mirage]

sure they can

they can take it

[whole mason]

Just increase ticks like every tick has X chance tick twice would be enough. No need to extend

[gusty mirage]

and throw it in the garbage where it belongs

[slow marsh]

I'm not saying scent is bad

[balmy condor]

FOURTY PERCENT

holy cope

[marble hemlock]

exsanguinating smth and ripping their veins open is pretty much synonymous anyway. thats how you exsanguinate people. so it makes perfect sense.

[strange python]

yeah atleast 100%

[upbeat needle]

It just needs number increase

[sleek sundial]

o.o

[marble hemlock]

yeah a permanent 30-50% damage gain on aoe for 3points, how terrible

[upbeat needle]

we love big number

[slow marsh]

no exsang is bad design regardless of tuning

[strange python]

Its a 1.5 minute cooldown, how is it permanent?

[marble hemlock]

carnage is a cooldown

scent is permanent

[balmy condor]

seli that would require scent to be 40 agi per point, per rupture

[upbeat needle]

I know 😦

[marble hemlock]

yeah

[sleek sundial]

with that much agi, you could aa and the dmg woud be dece

[strange python]

it will likely be tuned so that the talent is useless under like 5 targets

for aoe purposes

[marble hemlock]

i mean im assuming the current number is just placeholder ye

[gusty mirage]

rn it's looking like what? 10.5 agi per rupture for 3pts? assuming the "agi by 3.5" goes up in a linear way?

[balmy condor]

understandable

[slow marsh]

Also is it flat agi or %

Do we know for sure?

[gusty mirage]

it's flat

[marble hemlock]

like, im basically looking at the bfa scent

[manic matrix]

could it at least be good in pvp ?

[marble hemlock]

and how much it did

[lucid birch]

I think it’s 69 agi per rupture but my math is old

[marble hemlock]

bfa scent was incredibly strong in sustained aoe

[slow marsh]

Ye I see that for now, just wondering if there's a possibility to make it %

[strange python]

how good the talent is without IC will depend on the CP generation you have on multi target

[marble hemlock]

i mean, you can sustain 8 ruptures on aoe

with a 2fok>finisher rotation

considering rupture lasts 24sec

[slow marsh]

I like the idea of scent either way, it's that aoe payoff we've been asking about for awhile

[gusty mirage]

buffs our cleave too

it's nice

[balmy condor]

% agi effects don't really exist

same way % mastery effects don't exist

[marble hemlock]

scent is echoing blades. only more thematic and not as braindead

[lilac haven]

Scent +ic is gonna feel nice

[marble hemlock]

i played scent in bfa s1 with great success. people were just hard coping on SS but scent was even better (except for st obviously)

[sleek sundial]

Thats what i was telling push! never seen % mastery

[slow marsh]

okie yeah i figured % would be quite a bit stronger

[balmy condor]

I mean yeah that's cause of how mastery is calculated

[marble hemlock]

the only issue with scent being flat agi, is that itd fall off in future tiers unless the talent scales with it

[gusty mirage]

[sleek sundial]

yeah we were talking bout new flag

[balmy condor]

this is sus

[sleek sundial]

but thats sus

[slow marsh]

ye that's why i was thinking there could be possibility for % but makes sense it's flat

[sleek sundial]

yeah

[gusty mirage]

also arms 4pc gives stacking % to strength (granted it's dogshit at 2% per stack)

[marble hemlock]

but yeah you could theoretically push exsang to be our flourish

[balmy condor]

I assume that's just a tooltip thing

[slow marsh]

Although don't other classes have % stat increases somewhere or am I trippin?

[marble hemlock]

but that'd make it another aoe "cd" and it wouldnt do that much

[balmy condor]

% mastery does not exist

anywhere

[gusty mirage]

mage has it on their current tree for that talent no one takes cause it's shit

fire mage*

[balmy condor]

[fleet anchor]

It's only due to tooltip issues though

[royal lantern]

isnt there a point in the mage tree where you get crit chance when using combust?

[fleet anchor]

Technically they can increase Mastery the same way as every other stat

[slow marsh]

I just want to know if scent could ever be worth taking as a one-of filler point to create even more diversity

[balmy condor]

well yeah they could

they usually don't

[fleet anchor]

It's just confusing because specs have different tooltip coefficients

[gusty mirage]

which no one takes cause it's bad

[pulsar apex]

did the dragonflight talent tree get recenly updated?

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/JdgrP/3097a6b98c.png

[balmy condor]

seli shut the fuck up

[marble hemlock]

ill take every win i can

[gusty mirage]

whispyr's right though

[gusty mirage]

it's an odd fucking thing to see

the mastery buff from the new season 4 affix

gives flat mastery

rather than %

[marble hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/dab-dabbing-kid-dab-kid-dabbing-cool-dab-gif-20792759

[balmy condor]

well yeah

that's normal

pelagos is flat mastery too

[fleet anchor]

For a single spec it's easy enough they just will code the coefficient into the tooltip

[balmy condor]

kyrian bond on boomkins is flat mastery

[gusty mirage]

yea

having it be % is extremely rare

[fleet anchor]

It also exists on Weapons of Order

And Seraphim

[slow marsh]

% mastery could get scary because of DRs right?

[balmy condor]

weapons of horderves

[fleet anchor]

%mastery is the same as any other stat there's nothing fancy about it

The problem is just that base Mastery in the UI gets multiplied by spec-specific coefficients to the "effect" of it

[gusty mirage]

yeah the only special thing about mastery is rating correlates to a dif % based on spec

[fleet anchor]

So it's messy to deal with

For tooltips

[slow marsh]

But if it's isolated to one specific spec maybe possible?

[gusty mirage]

yeah any "Mastery %" increase now is either found in a specific spec talent

[fleet anchor]

If you see how they do it for Seraphim

[gusty mirage]

or as with WoO

changes depending on spec

[main solar]

Not that I'd want to see echoing blades back in the same form, but you could at least argue there was some "feel" to it. As in, you can see and feel the damage when you hit the button, as where with scent, it just passively buffs stats. Bigger dps is always cool, but should also be and feel fun.

[fleet anchor]

#4 (id=843938)   : Apply Aura (6) | Modify Mastery% (318)
                   Base Value: 8 | Scaled Value: 8 | PvP Coefficient: 1.00000 | Target: Self (1)

and Mastery increased by $?c1[${$s4*$183997bc1}]?c2[${$s4*$76671bc1}][${$s4*$267316bc1}]%

[slow marsh]

Ye that's gross

[fleet anchor]

So they just hard-code in the different Mastery spell references

For the 3 Paladin specs

[gusty mirage]

kek

[fleet anchor]

e.g. 267316bc1

[balmy condor]

I too have a cat that walks over my keyboard

[fleet anchor]

Refers to the base coefficient on spell

Name             : Mastery: Hand of Light (id=267316) [Spell Family (10), Passive] 
#1 (id=713921)   : Apply Aura (6) | Add Percent Modifier (108): Spell Direct Amount (0)
                   Base Value: 0 | Scaled Value: 0 | SP Coefficient: 1.60000 | PvP Coefficient: 1.00000 | Target: Self (1)
                   Affected Spells: Judgment (20271), Hammer of Wrath (24275), Divine Storm (53385), Shield of the Righteous (53600), Consecration (81297), Judgment (197277), Divine Hammer (198137), Justicar's Vengeance (215661), Templar's Verdict (224266), Wake of Ashes (255937), Zeal (269937), Expurgation (273481), Judgment (275773), Judgment (275779), Light's Decree (286232), Sanctified Wrath (326731), Final Verdict (336872), Final Reckoning (343721), Reckoning (343724)
                   Family Flags: 27

So basically * 1.6

[copper hazel]

[fleet anchor]

For Sub it's 2.45000

On Mastery: Executioner (id=76808)

It's not difficult to do, just annoying for them 😛

You wouldn't want to make a generic spell like the Azeroth buff in P4 with like 40 $? conditionals 😛

(The real question is why they haven't just had some programmer whip up a $masteryCoeff command for them...)

[gusty mirage]

too busy making more horse mounts for the alliance

[fleet anchor]

Like obviously it's cached for the purposes of the UI

Seems like it would actually be trivial for a coder to implement

And they've been hacking around it for like a decade 😄

[gusty mirage]

probably don't want to have to sort through all that ancient code

if I had to guess

[fleet anchor]

Probably one of those things that's never high priority but at some point I'd get fed up and walk over to a buddy and be like "dude. Plz."

[gusty mirage]

it seems every time they change something it breaks like 10 old things

and then the casuals flood the forums "LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE THIS COREHOUND HAS A LARGE NECKLACE"

[fleet anchor]

I'd only really be needed in the tooltip variable code though so probably not super dangerous 😛

Actually funny enough

Looking at the tooltip in the SL spell data

Wonder if they finally did get this added.

$mas isn't defined in this tooltip as a custom variable. Just kinda there.

Description      : Lash the target for $s1 Shadow damage, causing each combo point spent within $d to lash for an additional $345316s1. Dealing damage with Flagellation increases your Mastery by ${$s2*$mas}.1%, persisting $345569d after their torment fades.
Tooltip          : $?$W2>0[Nearby Rogue is tormenting the target, dealing $345316s1 Shadow damage for each combo point spent.][Combo points spent deal $345316s1 Shadow damage to the Rogue's tormented target. Haste increased by $s3%.]

[royal lantern]

remember when they increased the amount of bag slots

and kealthas was bald?

[gusty mirage]

worthy sacrifice

[sleek sundial]

Guys I'm sorry I ask about % mastery

[gusty mirage]

[fleet anchor]

Some designer finally got fed up 😄

Maybe

[gusty mirage]

nah don't be sorry

convos like this are fun

I get to learn some stuff from Koji

we get to meme about blizzard's spaghetti code

it's a win-win all around

[fleet anchor]

Maybe this means we actually do see more Mastery% things instead of hacky Mastery rating on universal effects

[royal lantern]

better then talking about exsang

[fleet anchor]

Feels like none of the Mastery rating conversions in universal buffs in SL were correct

They were all pretty largely underbudget

[royal lantern]

btw heres my way to fix exsang, page1:............

[fleet anchor]

Compared to Crit%/Vers% etc.

[gusty mirage]

yep

other secondary buffs just seemed better, even for specs that love mastery

[sleek sundial]

U know no one gonna pick the mastery buff in S3 right

Is so low compared to the others

S4*

[fleet anchor]

I think they buffed a number of them in 9.2 or 9.2.5?

But they are still a bit under

Before then some of the Mastery effects were almost half the value of the others

In a ratings sense

[night delta]

I remember when SoD was on testing in PTR, at some point, in N'yalotha, somehow the Wrathion lava patches were replaced by Kel'Thuzad frost patches

Such spaghetti code

[fleet anchor]

When a designer goes to clone a ground effect but ends up modifying the original instead 😛

[night delta]

At least this one had an easy explaination

[burnt latch]

@echo geyser

this man cannot be stopped

absolute madness

[ebon notch]

my warrior outsims my rogue now

[oak sky]

Wait warrior is actually good?

[ebon notch]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7iYJHVQnWRdTmmQgEdMQEP

[ebon notch]

you tell me

[oak sky]

Oh with windfury

[ebon notch]

i mean

yeah

[gusty mirage]

is this skyhold?

[ebon notch]

no sir sorry sir

[gusty mirage]

don't bring that garbage into here

[ebon notch]

yes sir

[oak sky]

Oxi

[scarlet sequoia]

np

[echo geyser]

mans so hot

285 gavel

[burnt latch]

3x 285 weapons on rogue

gets bored

mythic gavel

[spice spire]

[oak sky]

I will never see a 285 weapon

[cerulean nest]

any new alpha builds since yesterday? interested in trying em out when im home today

[copper hazel]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Hj7LGf46WhqxA1zZ/#type=damage-done&fight=5 naowh is doing some alpha dungeons on ret and theres a rogue in the group...im not sure what hes doing but its not dmg

[ancient rain]

Is there a proper way to offer feedback on talents that will maybe reach the devs here guys?

[cerulean nest]

i was trying out a few yesterday and found myself super energy starved

[copper hazel]

yeh makes sense, i guess lack of talent points is a big problem in the dungeon settings

[cerulean nest]

yeah having to drop vigor for other stuff is kinda mandatory at level 62 it seems

which doesnt help

the big indiscriminate carnages are a lot of fun though

still not totally sure of its interaction with deathmark, when exactly to press each in a big pack

[main solar]

I mean, the logs show he never even used garrote. Whether thats a bug from things not being hooked up still or just the player not using it, who knows.

[cerulean nest]

i dont see how thats possible lol

also wondering what the best use of cold blooded would be. before a deathmarked garrote? first envenom in a shiv?

[vast loom]

stealth deathmarked garrotes prob

[copper hazel]

yeh i dunno, it looks kinda fucked, a lot of the mutis are just placeholder icons. He does use garrote though, its in a couple of the fights

[main solar]

Probably thinks its still just a from stealth only thing. Someone who doesn't actually play assassination rogue and only know how they played from classic.

[cerulean nest]

oh i thought you meant this was like some known experienced rogue

if not then yeah hes just not pressing a critical button lol

[copper hazel]

no clue who it is, just figured it was looking weird

[main solar]

I doubt it. Its alpha and most people are just playing around with all the classes like blizzard wants them to, even though they've never played most of them before.

[cerulean nest]

also what are the best ways to optimize kingsbane? is it literally just full uptime during the dot

or should it be pressed during shiv

[balmy condor]

You press it, then press shiv a couple seconds later to catch the end

[cerulean nest]

or shiv on the 6th second maybe to maximise the end of the stacking dot

riight right

[balmy condor]

And maintain envenom during it

[cerulean nest]

testing all this stuff out without my weakauras makes it tougher for that stuff to stick

[spice spire]

No poison damage or garrote casts

[cerulean nest]

which poisons should we be using also? all of the new ones/talented ones are confusing

[copper hazel]

he does use garrote on other bosses in the log

but it looks like literally 1 cast, from stealth

[spice spire]

Second boss is 1 cast in 90 seconds

[copper hazel]

yeh theres just no way this is a legit rogue player

[balmy condor]

I mean you use deadly over instant, and amp over deadly

There’s only 2 new poisons, one lethal and one non-lethal

And they’re both talented

[subtle kiln]

that’s actually @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

Yeah true

[copper hazel]

makes sense

gaming laptop on one side of him, big G&T in his left hand, sun setting during his vacay

[subtle kiln]

if it looks bad on alpha and beta. we get buffs.

[balmy condor]

I’m limit testing how little damage a rogue can do

[copper hazel]

casually hitting 12121212 just doing mutis and ruptures

[spice spire]

Just like me fr

(But on live servers)

[oak sky]

Alpha sounds lit

[limber lion]

https://wago.io/p/Ceverion

:D

Sorry the bot is a bit slow today

[alpine latch]

Yeah I found it 🙂

Naw you're fine man

I talked @rustic sonnet

into playing rogue

Your plater base is super solid, so I wanted to find it to send it to him

I thought there was a command for it in this channel, but I guess there isn't

[limber lion]

Yeah don't think there is.

But nice, good to have another rogue in the crew

[alpine latch]

For whatever reason I thought there was but it only worked in here. Clearly, I was mistaken

[limber lion]

My wago might have been linked in the pins at some point

[alpine latch]

probably last tier or something, yeah

[cerulean nest]

any basic idea for ST opener with kingsbane + shadowdance?

(idk if you can squeeze sepsis into the same tree)

[balmy condor]

Gar snd mut to 4 Deathmark rupture mut kingsbane envenom vanish gar mut shiv dance envenom ambush ambush envenom

Something like that

[cerulean nest]

i'll give it a shot

cold blooded after vanish I guess?

[balmy condor]

I’d cold blood the kingsbane

[oak sky]

why is cheat in such a bad spot when its mandatory

😢

[slow marsh]

Cuz they want to make it not mandatory

And technically it's in a decent spot

[oak sky]

""

[slow marsh]

It could be in the middle above ER

[gusty mirage]

why is that a bad spot

for all intents and purposes we want dance

[oak sky]

yeah thats true its an obtainable spot

[slow marsh]

I would say desirable not obtainable

Every spec wants dance

[balmy condor]

Also just don’t use cheat idk

[oak sky]

i only say bad spot because its pretty deep and theoretically hardlocks us to that spot

[balmy condor]

Seli’s been avoiding cheat for years

[oak sky]

[gusty mirage]

use thistle tea bro idk

[grim canopy]

lol

uhh i can't fit feint in my thing

[gusty mirage]

besides seal fate name something there that's a must have

[slow marsh]

We can get dance + seal fate. Zero reason to complain imo

[gusty mirage]

vigor?

deeper?

[grim canopy]

i lose alacrity and feint

[balmy condor]

You can’t fit FEINT?

[oak sky]

who says seal fate is mandatory

[balmy condor]

Bro feint is like 1 point at the top with no competing dps talents

How can you not take feint

[slow marsh]

If anything I'd like to see imp ambush placed in a different spot but then the middle would be an actually useless path

[oak sky]

just dont take feint

[gusty mirage]

my mom told me it when I was 4

so it must be true

[urban spire]

play find weakness

[grim canopy]

im bad at Dragon lands

or whatever its called

[gusty mirage]

I unironically called it dragonforce yesterday

so there's that

[balmy condor]

I’m afraid to tell you that there are like 8 more rows you need to work through

[winter hill]

potential execute tree?

raid

[gusty mirage]

tight spenders over nightstalker?

[oak sky]

bongcloud says improved ambush dance

[slow marsh]

Tight spender

[balmy condor]

Looks like a standard tree with blindside yeah

[oak sky]

he doesnt have dance so isnt tight spender just better

[grim canopy]

i want 3 more yards

[balmy condor]

Tight spender is fine

[grim canopy]

wanted

[balmy condor]

Nightstalker got nerfed

He’s not using dance

[slow marsh]

But yeah move cttc to ep and that's pretty much standard now

[winter hill]

don't have dance so tight spender after nightstalker nerf

[balmy condor]

No need

[gusty mirage]

fair enough

[slow marsh]

Oh no dance

[gusty mirage]

vigor tho

[vestal wren]

maybe he wasn't born as a dancer

[slow marsh]

Vigor over dance is kinda weird tho

Like why not just dance

[winter hill]

yeah i'm just human. no dancer

[oak sky]

3 points in alacrity

[burnt latch]

Hey America, big fan

[gusty mirage]

I appreciate this so much

[slow marsh]

💃 🕺

[balmy condor]

I mean all of these trees boil down to:

• dance?
• kingsbane?
• dragon tempered?

And that’s it

Like you didn’t take dance, and then took kingsbane

[slow marsh]

And I'm kind of really ok with that

[balmy condor]

Gg

[grim canopy]

my dream of long ass daggers is dashed

[balmy condor]

Full build

[slow marsh]

I wonder if they buff er / rc or if they leave middle path kind of dead

[balmy condor]

I challenge you to make a build that is profoundly different from going 75% of the way down the right side, and then picking up a left/middle capstone

There isn’t anything there

It’s the same points

The choice is like are you taking a covenant ability/blindside/exsang

Other than that, it’s the same tree

No matter where you go

[grim canopy]

dang

[slow marsh]

I mean class

[grim canopy]

ele shaman one gets a lot of cool options

[balmy condor]

Class tree is just left side then right side ice

[slow marsh]

Spec tree is pretty close to perfect

[balmy condor]

Where are you going

[slow marsh]

That's my point

[balmy condor]

Spec tree is the same thing

[gusty mirage]

the issue with the middle isn't just ER

[slow marsh]

Tru

[winter hill]

the other rogue specs take the middle i guess

[balmy condor]

Pick your talent on the bottom, run to it, pick up some stuff on the opposite side of the tree, gg sin build

[slow marsh]

The other rogue specs shouldn't take middle tho

Why would you when all the best DPS talents are left/right

[gusty mirage]

trading coldblood for melee range, you're trading off crit chance on generators & poison dam or nightstalker/tight spender with versatility & improved ambush lol

[balmy condor]

What

Ambush +1 cp and 4% vers is huge

[winter hill]

4% vers seems rly insane to me tho

[slow marsh]

[balmy condor]

Why wouldn’t they go down the middle

[gusty mirage]

peeps just looking at it from an "assassination" stand point

[slow marsh]

Idk maybe they're allergic to damage

[winter hill]

and outlaw is prolly gonna go dance. so lots of ambushes. there's no doubt in my mind that outlaw is going middle

[gusty mirage]

• outlaw tree has a lot of good synergy with ambush

[grim canopy]

every1 dances

[gusty mirage]

• ER is giga for outlaw's CDR

[balmy condor]

Outlaw really boutta be like nah don’t give me the ambush cp, I want 2 points into weapon poison damage and then leeching poison bro

[oak sky]

this is it

[balmy condor]

That’s not even that cursed

[oak sky]

er no seal fate

👍

[winter hill]

yeah exaclty my thoughts

[grim canopy]

oh god echoing repreimand

kill it with fire

[slow marsh]

I mean imp ambush is the best talent in middle for outlaw imo

[gusty mirage]

somewhere in the world varas just got a quarter chub

[grim canopy]

Shadowdance ftw

[slow marsh]

And it's only halfway

[oak sky]

i did it for him

[gusty mirage]

4% vers is massive dude

not affected by DR

its actually insane

[oak sky]

this seems like a number question

[slow marsh]

Same thing it's middle of the tree still

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/okay-and-and-okay-gif-20619947

[gusty mirage]

I'm just glad that the spec tree has 3 viable capstones now

[winter hill]

doubt that it's better than 4% vers

[oak sky]

yes

[slow marsh]

ye i agree

[gusty mirage]

we get like ~8 presets iirc?

like

go wild boys

want something for out door random shit?

old content?

giga movement speed

[balmy condor]

SHADOWRUNNER

[grim canopy]

Vigor, seal fate, shadow dance

[oak sky]

https://tenor.com/view/chatting-bean-twitch-gif-22634143

[cerulean nest]

having to commit so many points to get to atrophic is kinda butt

[slow marsh]

🧢

[gusty mirage]

improved poisons and venomous is so good though

[balmy condor]

????????

[gusty mirage]

what

[grim canopy]

skip it

[slow marsh]

lol

[ebon notch]

atrophic poison is bad discuss

[limber lion]

@balmy condor see I told you

[gusty mirage]

restless crew is getting nerfed, discuss

[balmy condor]

You’re right actually, I hate taking the best nodes on the tree as well

[oak sky]

make the other rogue thats worse than you go it

[slow marsh]

Even if you have another sin rogue in group with atrophic, you still go down middle

[ebon notch]

is it really??

[balmy condor]

What am I reading

[cerulean nest]

lmao i'll go back to the drawing board

[gusty mirage]

you think that 0.2s per CP spent is going to stay?

[verbal mantle]

[ebon notch]

i mean

theyll just make it non stackable

[spice spire]

[ebon notch]

once people learn how inconsistent outlaw cp gen is they wont want it

[grim canopy]

change to .02

[gusty mirage]

so... it'll get nerfed?

[balmy condor]

How did this chat

Go to hell

[cerulean nest]

having to commit 1 point to atrophic is kinda butt *

[balmy condor]

So fast

[cerulean nest]

fixed it

[winter hill]

this is the outlaw chat now @balmy condor

hahahaha

[slow marsh]

It's always been this way wym

[ebon notch]

idk i just derail any chat im in

im sry

[gusty mirage]

ez fix, just don't take it

[cerulean nest]

tell that to the guild

[gusty mirage]

[grim canopy]

did anyone sim dragon tempered blade vs kingsbane?

[slow marsh]

Daps truly embodying the yellow name persona

[gusty mirage]

then play outlaw bro or recruit another sin rogue to take atrophic

idk

[balmy condor]

What a shit show this is

[verbal mantle]

[balmy condor]

Feels like two minutes ago we were laughing about troll trees

[gusty mirage]

every single alpha/beta/ptr cycle

[oak sky]

i can do another one

[winter hill]

shit escalates quickly

[gusty mirage]

take zold without kingsbane

make it happen

hit us with the most cursed shit ever

[oak sky]

im making a no capstone build

[limber lion]

@balmy condor how's alpha, did you get to play any yet?

[balmy condor]

[cerulean nest]

ruby pools is literally a mini dungeon

[limber lion]

:D

[slow marsh]

rate my tree

[balmy condor]

I wish I had time for anything

[gusty mirage]

huge deeper stratagem

[grim canopy]

low dps

[gusty mirage]

that extra time on rupture gonna be WILD

[copper hazel]

aight when are you making ratemytree.com website @balmy condor

[oak sky]

iron wire ❤️

[balmy condor]

Honestly the class tree isn’t even that bad

[verbal mantle]

26 856

this is your sim

[gusty mirage]

what's mine

[balmy condor]

Can you rerun the number for dragon tempered

[grim canopy]

someone do a m+ tree

[verbal mantle]

handsome+sexy+infinite dps

[verbal mantle]

oh sure

[gusty mirage]

rate my tree

[balmy condor]

Yeah I gotchu, all the points on the right, then everything on the left + Deathmark

[verbal mantle]

you will beat every dps in the raid

[balmy condor]

You may omegalul me but you can’t tell me anything different can you

[verbal mantle]

kingsbane

[gusty mirage]

huge no deathmark

[spice spire]

No CD gameplay

Flat as the earth god bless

[gusty mirage]

someone teach my mans how to take a screenshot

pls

[oak sky]

im in an aram

sue me

[balmy condor]

More like haram

[gusty mirage]

see you in court buddy

[winter hill]

just use snipping tool

[oak sky]

im in an aram

not taking time to do

[limber lion]

Man can make talent trees in an aram

[oak sky]

anything

[limber lion]

But cant take a screenshot

[spice spire]

Man’s a savant

[balmy condor]

Last time someone told me that, my dick got 10 grams lighter

[spice spire]

Talent tree extraordinaire

[winter hill]

nice

[gusty mirage]

hot

[balmy condor]

Not falling for that shit again

[oak sky]

there you go

m+

[gusty mirage]

remove venom rush and toss it in atrophic boo

[oak sky]

yeah

[winter hill]

hmh iron wire

[oak sky]

probably

[grim canopy]

why no vigor?

[oak sky]

not needed

[grim canopy]

oh ok

[gusty mirage]

tons of bleeds = no need for vigor

[balmy condor]

How to make viable m+ tree:

1. Go to class tree,
2. go down right
3. then go down left
4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 for spec tree
5. You’re still shit at the game enjoy doing no damage bozo

[oak sky]

type 5 again

[ebon notch]

whispyr mean

[gusty mirage]

don't shit on my sin m+ dream

the devs will do that without your help

[grim canopy]

a lot of aoe dmg maybe every 1.5 min

[oak sky]

i do kinda wish there was something i could take besides venom rush

or atrophic

i guess atrophic works

[gusty mirage]

DR is just giga man

[ebon notch]

put in ur guild app that you're not an atrophic gamer

[gusty mirage]

think how much people spend on avoidance boes

[oak sky]

yeah i know its giga

and it does fit

[strange python]

What’s the question mark under atrophic again

[gusty mirage]

deathmark

the replacement for vendetta

[strange python]

Ah ok thanks

I just forgot

[gusty mirage]

ye it had an icon on the last tree iirc

[limber lion]

They have the icons ingame just not on wowhead

A sad day indeed.

[gusty mirage]

the saddest part of my day is when you're asleep

because I can't appreciate your presence

[burnt latch]

@limber lion ur new realm sucks

input lag very non pog

[spice spire]

His new realm?

[limber lion]

Good shout, gonna have to dip

[limber lion]

Hmmm

Guess its time to go back to the reaver

[burnt latch]

Reaver bis

[ebon notch]

uh

[burnt latch]

im somehow stuck on draenor

[ebon notch]

its filled with finns

did you guys forget or what

[burnt latch]

idk how to get back to reaver

[oak sky]

what happened

shard?

[burnt latch]

yes

😦

i want my finnish friends back

[oak sky]

i want my warcieft back