outlaw

[glass mortar]

then over an expac they gave it to 5 other specs

[leaden sonnet]

I personally would love to see shiv being aoe (like it was for assa in tww)

The aoe slow is cool

[glass mortar]

then went "wait this is unfair, like half the melee have long arms and half dont"

"LETS REMOVE IT FROM ALL OF THEM"

[vivid vessel]

cant believe we got this talent

KEKW

[cedar kernel]

the 2 target shiv gone?

[glass mortar]

thanks guys

xd

[vivid vessel]

why doesnt this increase kick and cc range

why shiv

[normal hawk]

Cause

[vivid vessel]

imagine if we had gotten that for kick and kidney

[normal hawk]

Dagger

Idk

[glass mortar]

u wanted increased range on ur useful utility?

[vivid vessel]

that would have been a banger talent bro

[glass mortar]

where do u think we are

zac

we had to cry piss shit and scream

to get our singular aoe stop back

[vivid vessel]

im wondering if someone ever took this talent actually

is there anyway to check that

[leaden sonnet]

Technically deathstalker assa uses it

[vivid vessel]

actually 2 outlaw uses it

in the top 100

kidna crazy or

[leaden sonnet]

But yeah idk, delete the agility node, the 6% finisher damage and the 5% builder crit nodes and replace them with speed shroud, perma tricks and blackjack

change toxic stiletto to be aoe

[glass mortar]

???

[vivid vessel]

well well well

@buoyant stratus if this isnt my guy charrend

[normal hawk]

It’s kinda crazy there’s nodes with 0 use

[vivid vessel]

what you doing with taht shiv talent lil bro

you enjoying shiving

not playing featherfoot is degenerate

imo

just imo tho

[buoyant stratus]

K bro listennnn

NA pugs

Cannot handle skyreach enrages

[vivid vessel]

this was academy lil bro

[glass mortar]

NA pugs

cannot handle academy

[buoyant stratus]

Then i probably just forgot to swap ngl

[frail veldt]

Blackjack would be so cool

With aoe blind

That utility would be so fun

[glass mortar]

my god these guys want aoe shiv AND tricks of the trade AND blackjack (AND????) aoe blind all at once???

[vivid vessel]

ye

[glass mortar]

some of the greediest mf in this game

[leaden sonnet]

"oh the bleeds went out in seat, time to blind"

LOOK AT ME ACTUALLY HELPING MY TEAM

[glass mortar]

imagine having the tookit of basically any normal class in the game for dungeons

[leaden sonnet]

Unfathomable never seen before tech as a rogue

[glass mortar]

couldnt be us

[vivid vessel]

i want perma tricks as a talent, i want speed shroud as a talent (should be on the same as quick shroud), i want blackjack as a talent, and i want that shiv talent to be reworked to be for ccs and kick

and i want a talent that pvp people cant take

thtat makes kidney cost no cp

cause this is clearly only there cuase pvp exist

and it makes no sense for kidney to cost cps in pve

me when i need to spend 5 gcd to stun a target

ok bud

[leaden sonnet]

Or make kidney ignore DR in pve

[glass mortar]

9 second stun u have the STRONGEST st stun in the game zac

wanting it to be free is just so greedy

[vivid vessel]

single target dr should not be on the same dr as aoe dr

in pve

at least

idc about pvp

[vivid vessel]

8 i think

[glass mortar]

rounding error prob

[trim harbor]

Ye its 8

[leaden sonnet]

Ye for sure

[glass mortar]

mine is 9

[normal hawk]

Just reduce its time and make it free

[glass mortar]

💅

[vivid vessel]

dont think you need to reduce its time either lmao

[normal hawk]

Eh

[vivid vessel]

when is the last time you have seen people pogging about rogue utility in keys bro

[glass mortar]

i mean with rogues current toolkit u absolutely could justh ave kidney free in pve

[vivid vessel]

they barely know you have a kidney

[leaden sonnet]

Idk i like that it costs some stuff in exchange for being a longer stun

[glass mortar]

pretending rogue needs to pay any tax

[normal hawk]

I kinda want other utility not just kidney though

[glass mortar]

to have some utility added rn

[leaden sonnet]

I just hate that if somebody else stunned before

[glass mortar]

is a bit silly

[leaden sonnet]

Its wasted

[vivid vessel]

ye but you play sub

you dont get it eleem

its not the same for us

i can be low rolling then my kidney take 5 gcd to build up

you are always 1 gcd away from your kidney

[leaden sonnet]

Fair

[vivid vessel]

i enjoyu the niche

of being able to help a lot with st ccs

and kinda solo a mob

if your team lets you

(aka not spam aoe ccs)

[normal hawk]

Theyre just gonna aoe cc and spam grip

[vivid vessel]

oh ye

forgot about taht

outlaw should have a grip

why yopu ask >

[normal hawk]

Chain grab out be

Kinda sick

[glass mortar]

nah

[normal hawk]

Like scorpion

[glass mortar]

give us healthstones

[glass mortar]

we had this discussion the other day

[vivid vessel]

there is 2 grip mob in the game

and they both use outlaw hook

not dk grip !

[glass mortar]

theres like 100 grip mobs in the game actually

[leaden sonnet]

Just spec this pvp talent mr noob

[vivid vessel]

weird !

[glass mortar]

like half the abomination mobsd

[leaden sonnet]

Youll get all the energy back

[glass mortar]

have some kinda chain hook thingy

i dont think outlaw flavor is the same as undead monstrosity tho

[vivid vessel]

whatdehelly

[vivid vessel]

same icon lil bro

i will let you counter that one

[glass mortar]

woow ooo weee woooo wow

[normal hawk]

I wouldn’t mind if l like you pulled them halfway and you like moved into them

[glass mortar]

i forgot we played the CHAIN spec

[frail veldt]

When you lowroll last boss skyreach and can't kidney the add lol

[glass mortar]

anything with chains on it is our flavor

im so down

[vivid vessel]

xdd

[glass mortar]

nah let us hand out a stache of crimson vials

[vivid vessel]

me when im on a 1 buff with 0 energy

[glass mortar]

we should have healthstones

[vivid vessel]

and i have to kidney that add

[last cape]

“no kidney”

[vivid vessel]

(i just spent 5min building to 5 cp)

[last cape]

my tank says as we watch healer fall off map

[normal hawk]

Yea

Kidney shot the healer

[frail veldt]

And in pugs if you kidney late

Someone else stuns first

With a piss stun

[vivid vessel]

ye

[frail veldt]

Then kidney is like 1s long

[vivid vessel]

then its full dr insta btw

[frail veldt]

Idk why

[vivid vessel]

pvp mob

[frail veldt]

I think Dr is bugged

[vivid vessel]

:D

[frail veldt]

Isn't it supposed to be half duration

But instead

[vivid vessel]

yes

[frail veldt]

It's like 1s long

[keen belfry]

i feel so squishy in 22s zac

[vivid vessel]

its bugged on this mob

[frail veldt]

LOOOOL

I was gonna say

Why the fuck is it like that?

[vivid vessel]

you are

but also you arent

idk

its hard

genuily

to press defs good

[normal hawk]

Try mage

[vivid vessel]

as outlaw

[normal hawk]

Feel how squishy that shit is

[keen belfry]

i missed one feint on rift tear as died for it

[last cape]

when the randoms in solo shuffle stun kill targets

[vivid vessel]

you wanna know how i do warden now awang

[keen belfry]

legit 80 to 0 in 0.0

[vivid vessel]

cause i bet you dont know how it works

[keen belfry]

lets hear

[vivid vessel]

i learned it this week

so there is 5 aoe

the aoe instances happen right after the puddles fall from the sky

like you see the aoe on the ground disapear

you press feint

you will cover 2 aoe

so with that tech you cover 4 aoe out of 5 with 2 feints

[dim parrot]

How tf u have so much secondary stats

[normal hawk]

Sorry whos warden

[keen belfry]

i see ok

so u need both feint for rift tear

[vivid vessel]

im better

[vivid vessel]

yes

[last cape]

zac pays off devs for better rng

[vivid vessel]

im unsure what to do about the first thingy tho

its starting to hurt

[keen belfry]

so my tech before was i pressed feint after first tick of tear, but thats bad now that tear literally fucks me

[vivid vessel]

the channel

i think i managed to 3 feint something on 22

i need to figure out what i did

and cover every instance of damage

[keen belfry]

maybe u can press first feint as he begins to start the cast of his channel

or even a lil before

[outer meteor]

i honestly just cloak the channel

and feint twice during the aoe

so i cover 4 hits

and last one

i pray

xdd

[keen belfry]

i was healthy af during the channel

but i can try that too

[outer meteor]

idk i feel like the first 2-3 are the most scary ones

on that pull

[keen belfry]

yes i think my old tech of waiting for a tick was trol

[outer meteor]

because the brokens are dying + the aoe guy is alive

[keen belfry]

atleast troll now

[vivid vessel]

@keen belfry

look this one i did triple feint and i was able to cover everything

but i think the timing is not really doable

you like feint the last tick of channel

to cover first aoe

and then feint comes back for last aoes

[outer meteor]

holy

that looks sketch to replicate

[vivid vessel]

ye

[keen belfry]

im confused

when doe she start doing dmg

[outer meteor]

i think always getting 4

is fine

[keen belfry]

cuz in my vod

[outer meteor]

after the channel

[keen belfry]

he kills mebfore the balls land

[outer meteor]

theres like 3 sec delay

then she starts pulsing

[vivid vessel]

well this pack there is also a guy pusling aoe

[outer meteor]

every 2-3 secs

[vivid vessel]

void guy

thingy

[outer meteor]

the voidcaller ye

big aoe

[vivid vessel]

but i think what im gonna do

on this pack now

is an early feint via that cover voidcaller aoes + channel, then feint last 4 aoes from warden

and there will be one aoe that is taken natty

the first one after channel

[outer meteor]

thats what i do usually

[vivid vessel]

i think its the easiest thing to replicate

[outer meteor]

but instead of feint =vial

+*

is cloak

[vivid vessel]

i cannot use cloak and evasion

because we do warden + subj

pack after

[outer meteor]

oh true

yea ive done that route like twice only

[spring beacon]

any tips for button reduction on outlaw? new to it and there are a ton

[vivid vessel]

ye its hard

but its also both hard

and not

like i think if you figure out

your defs

[outer meteor]

but idk it didnt feel needed on 22

lots of time

[keen belfry]

this is the one i just died to bro

[outer meteor]

if we just w

[vivid vessel]

:D

ye but you can take it natty if you are full life tho !

idk !

its also the most dangerous prolly but

you cant know the timing of this one really

which we had weak aruas ..

[outer meteor]

i legit count to 2 in my head

and press feint

if i miss

gg

[dim parrot]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/character/us/area-52/spoogezilla/

Why my secondaries so low compared to Zac

Even w/ flask

[vivid vessel]

skill issue bro

its all there is

[dim parrot]

Hmm ok 👍 ty

[outer meteor]

i think plume gives u some weird crit

that fades in combat

[vivid vessel]

yes

[outer meteor]

or something like that

so its inflated

[vivid vessel]

plume gives like

[dim parrot]

Mmm I see

[vivid vessel]

a lot of stats

6% crit

[dim parrot]

At least I have 9% leech

[outer meteor]

those are my unbuffed stats

i get 26% haste with flask

still not as much as zacs

without flask

[dim parrot]

Juice

What second trink u running Fizz

[outer meteor]

gaze + prism

[dim parrot]

I think I get prism next week idk if it out sim guidon in current set up

[keen belfry]

maybe plume tomorrow

[soft musk]

@zac whats your key opener? is it just arush rtb snd than in pack ?

or do you killingspree before bubble goes down?

[dim parrot]

Idt I can get plume this season mythic

[vivid vessel]

i ks before key

[glass mortar]

killing spree before the key

[vivid vessel]

ks adr pre key

[dim parrot]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

• Use Adrenaline Rush to activate Loaded Dice.
• As Trickster, use KS to activate Disorienting Strikes.
• Do NOT use RTB before the key, you will lose it.
• Use SND during the bubble once the key starts.

[vivid vessel]

you can adr ks prep adr

to keep your superchargers

[soft musk]

ya i saw yours was different than the one posted here

wox does some different stuff too

[vivid vessel]

im also stacking 6 apex

when pack is close

but thats a bit more annoying

having to farm on dummy for like 30s

then you hjave to start key when you ladn on 6

[soft musk]

damn ya iwas watching your yt videos and iwas damn this dude cracked

[vivid vessel]

ah ye

youtube was a long time ago tbf

i wasnt doing the apex stacking

[soft musk]

i only get to lik 600-800k on opener idk how you got higher than that until i saw the pre key stuff.

[vivid vessel]

actually let me upload the keys we did today and yesterday

[soft musk]

❤️

[glass mortar]

...

[vivid vessel]

mad?

[glass mortar]

only for ur team

seek help

[vivid vessel]

meh

its not bad

have done worse thing

[dim parrot]

Is there time limit on apex stacks falling off

[vivid vessel]

ye 30s

once you hit 6

10s pull timer, 10s in bubble

10s to press bte

[frail veldt]

"brb gotta go turn on ER bug and farm perma 6 buff before we start the key"

[vivid vessel]

hm

i dont feel like this was that bad ..

[frail veldt]

It was annoying if you got unlucky and couldn't get a 5 roll

[vivid vessel]

skill issue imo

[frail veldt]

Or if your 5 roll didn't have the cdr lol

[dull geyser]

do we really only KIR on 3 or more buff?

these rollls are so fucking crap

[grim spear]

should I take this thing? Currently using a crafted head.

[dull geyser]

@vivid vessel should i put in a bug report for 45% uptime on 2 buff or what

[inland acorn]

#1276307559061524652 message

[dull geyser]

i know thats what guide says im just curious about real world situation etc

[keen belfry]

gpretty good helm yeah

[inland acorn]

the guide literally says... that it's fine to kir 2, if you're going to roll without loaded... ?

[vivid vessel]

ye hwen you spend 5min not pressing kir you are legally allowed to

[grim spear]

but the new raid head is coming in two weeks anyway.

[dim parrot]

Is loot table released for it yet

I hope in 6 weeks they give us even more power

[inland acorn]

I think it is

[ashen birch]

anyone else having issues with m33kauras/Sharedmedia not working after the server crashing last night? How do we update or fix this?

[inland acorn]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/sporefall-raid-gear-has-new-stats-in-patch-12-0-7-381697

[dim parrot]

Hmm idk my one I stole from Zac doesn’t work lately

For rtb bug

[inland acorn]

My worked fine tonight in raid

[vivid vessel]

works for me

skill issue imo

[vivid vessel]

we actually are kinda lucky

[pastel sierra]

Works on my machine

[vivid vessel]

cause head and belt are good stats

[keen belfry]

that helm is giga

[ashen birch]

went to 3k ping and had servers crashing then logged in and all addons were f'd. now its just m33kauras and shared media missing

[vivid vessel]

the jewelerry is a bit unfortunate tho

maybe the ring does a lot of damage idk

prolly not

[ashen birch]

I haven't updated m33kauras since they were installed a month or so, how do you do that lol?

[inland acorn]

with wowup

or manually download latest release and replace old ones in interface folder

[dim parrot]

That helm is nice

F I just got a good helm

Shoulda just took socket

I don’t like feeling done gearing then they do this weird shit tbh

[inland acorn]

gotta keep those numbers for investors yk

[dim parrot]

Yeah that’s the problem

It doesn’t feel good for game enjoyment

But there clear incentive for them to pull that shit

[ashen birch]

any other ideas? both shared media and m33kauras are showing this despite being updated

manually updated since WowUp wasnt working

[keen belfry]

i KIR'd on pull of seat, then i didnt KIR until 2nd pull after 1st boss @vivid vessel

[cinder relic]

@vivid vessel I got the double tert on the warrior

[keen belfry]

how

[cinder relic]

lura tert item

• rolled an extra tert

Then converted to tier

[keen belfry]

i see

[gaunt phoenix]

ur a tert

[keen belfry]

i lost the 50/50 15 times in a row

[earnest sphinx]

wtf the real double trouble bandit

[dull ginkgo]

What talents do we use for paladins fight?

Which one do you guys think for paladins

[plain portal]

yo what dungeon have you guys been bonus rolling after pit?

im thinking either seat for helm/gloves or skyreach for the trinket personally but theres so much garbo gear in both

[gaunt phoenix]

caverns is good

[mighty pivot]

@wintry solar fix this shit before they fire you as outlaw dev

[sturdy hamlet]

if a mythic gaze is out of the question, next best thing mythic prism?

[rancid silo]

[craggy barn]

prety sure hero gaze is still really good

[frail veldt]

Has your rtb wa been working consistently? I've been seeing moments where the buff disappears still

Was fine up until about two weeks ago

[grim spear]

locked to Lura rn, feels like it's gonna take another 1-2 weeks
no plume

[trim harbor]

Dont even trip he payed the devs

[frail veldt]

Do we have any wep consumes that compete with phoenix oil?

[tepid galleon]

@vivid vessel whats ur playlist

[grim spear]

heard some rumors about using df whetstones
though i dont buy it

[steel shadow]

theres exactly 1 void elf in the top 100 so i used this as justification for not picking nelf or dw*rf

[last scarab]

i have problems with input lag, i fell fat, is normal? or is problem with my pc?

[craggy barn]

whetstons prob cant compete with our current enjoyment of crit and haste

next season we might be using stones once we can comfortably hit our caps

[tepid galleon]

@steel shadow

nelf is juist bnetter

esp if you plan to go assa

more empowered garrote uptime

[steel shadow]

looks worse

the lion does not concern himself with assassination

[pastel oxide]

Go to bloodmallet

[vapid sundial]

Imposter

[sturdy hamlet]

super cool website never seen this before thanks!

[pastel oxide]

Sin is better than outlaw

[steel shadow]

mods, ban this guy

[frail veldt]

Whats rogue strat on 2nd boss MC?

do I just afk and hope my team takes care of it

or do I just stand out to force trolls to hit and lose half my uptime

[pastel oxide]

Yeah

You can always press feint and walk into your own, youll live it

[frail veldt]

LOL

good one

[pastel oxide]

Technically someone should be trapping one as soon as it comes out while tank soaks one on the first set

[steel shadow]

this is your tanks job

if the boss is positioned correctly you shouldnt lose any uptime

[frail veldt]

so I just have to afk and hope my team takes care of it

[pastel oxide]

Probably yeah

[frail veldt]

jesus take the wheel ig

[pastel oxide]

Watch some vods of higher level players to get ideas

Thats why you should play assassination, losing uptime isnt as big a deal

[frail veldt]

nah im not a quitter

[wintry solar]

Y'all deserve it

[sturdy hamlet]

Would anyone mind checking out a raid log? Very new to wow and outlaw but would like to get a gold parse someday lol

[gaunt phoenix]

type !log and i will see it in 8 hours

[sturdy hamlet]

!log

[hasty warren]

Hi pitates

[frail veldt]

hi elf

[hardy wigeon]

Hooooly decided to run fb for one key and it felt so much better

Trickster in the fucking bin

[unkempt iris]

A fucking men

Fatebound for life

[fair iron]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-escape-cute-kitten-kitty-gif-17418444

[gusty pagoda]

Does it only dmg you and not the entire group? I've always been scared to try it

[thin fiber]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[native olive]

yall think they'll ever give ambush build its time in the sun?

[frail veldt]

Hope not

[hardy thicket]

To each their own but I agree. I never disliked Outlaw as much as when HO was the meta

Especially DF S1 pre FtH changes when you literally just hurr durr sent every PS overcapped like crazy and finishers were just like meh

[cerulean portal]

prob yes

[hardy thicket]

This iteration is kinda cool I think. Some tweaks to make it more fun but definitely not bad

[gusty pagoda]

Crackshot shadow dance outlaw

[sturdy tartan]

Trickster feels so terrible for outlaw , I understand it sims higher but fatebound just feels so much better

[cerulean portal]

i wish we had a party buff

[hardy thicket]

If they would just make BtE refunds always land you on 6 CP and somehow balance out the RtB stages so the discrepancy wasnt that terrible it would be a favorite

[gusty pagoda]

I think current iteration would be fine if it was slightly more fast paced and if you would always have +6 CP after getting CP's refunded on between the eyes so you can just use it back to back instead of using SS

[hardy thicket]

^

[gusty pagoda]

I don't like having to use SS after pistol shot to do a finisher either

[hardy thicket]

Thats fine I think. Otherwise its back to what I was talking about in DF s1

You would just always press PS and instant max CP. Removes a lot of nuance in builder rules. I dont like that.

Removes all of the little nuance that is left* rather

They should tweak KS to actually do prio damage as well.

[native olive]

was running some quick sims earlier and just hitting training dummies for a while, and fatebound was only 1k behind in sims and doing better from just me playing it.
its probably cope but like its my excuse to paly FB from now on

[native olive]

#bringbackAtrophicShiv

[cerulean portal]

fb dispatch at 5 cps???

[native olive]

yee, just wanna be throwing out as many coins as you can

[cerulean portal]

😮

[gusty pagoda]

It should actually do dmg like blunderbuss on survival

Also I think it just targets a random enemy every second so it only does dmg to 1 target at a time unless I'm mistaken. They should just make it like a reaper ult that does dmg to everything around you. Could even make it uncapped for some spice

[surreal latch]

Do you always try to send BtE at 7cp or is 6 enough?

[formal crane]

If I can get vers and mastery to the same value, would Blood embellishment be better than Hunt embellishment? Raidbots doesn't seem to be able to simulate situations where multiple stats are equal

[worn temple]

Does anyone know the setting that makes cloud cover less visible so I can see the ground? Trying outlaw in keys and I can't see shit at times.

[quiet root]

particle density

[worn temple]

Thank you!

[frail veldt]

That would be nice

That was at the top of my list in tww s3

But now I just want energy to not feel so bad

And fix low rolling

And two target cleave

Just awful

[inland acorn]

I still don't understand why we got hit with deft tax, AFTER nerfing every energy talent

[gusty pagoda]

Because Blizzard is oversimplifying the game and believes that fast paced gameplay is too demanding for their playerbase

Didn't they screw up energy for every rogue spec?

[inland acorn]

Well, yes

Though sub doesn't really give a fuck, since they have infinite energy in cds anyways

Assa though, I think suffers a lot with energy

[soft abyss]

Assa and sub are practically the same as before

[gusty pagoda]

Yeah but I think it still feels bad to be out of energy when pressing shuriken storm - BP

[inland acorn]

Unless its aoe and it puts like 20 bleeds

[soft abyss]

Assa ST is faster than previously

[gusty pagoda]

Yeah they even nerfed energy gain from aoe

[soft abyss]

and aoe a bit slower

[gusty pagoda]

Didn't know about the ST tho

[inland acorn]

yeah but it doesn't matter for sub

they do negative dmg outside of cds

[soft abyss]

But in aoe you don't have any issue

you have a bit less energy but you are ok

[gusty pagoda]

But pressing buttons still keeps me busy

[soft abyss]

only like 2-3-4 targets is worse

[gusty pagoda]

I wish kidney shot didn't cost energy so you could just focus on cc while out of energy

Feint and vial shouldn't cost energy either

[inland acorn]

Wdym

You don't like pressing defensives to nuke your dps

[gusty pagoda]

Ignore defensives and use cheat death as dps cd

[tropic zephyr]

we don't use cheat death in keys

it's just death death

[cerulean portal]

and cheat is cheat

[native olive]

hitting feint with elusiveness and watching the partys health drop to 20% while im sittin pretty at like 60% feels great

[keen island]

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[south crypt]

Is there any way to disable the smoke cloud comming when pressing adrenaline rush? It's making it super hard to look at swirlies on the ground

[gusty pagoda]

No but you can decrease particle density in settings

Or go fatebound

[unkempt iris]

Play fatebound, the superior hero talent

[novel birch]

Think this is the highest overall damage I've reached by over a key

[cerulean whale]

I think its good as a outlaw

What key?

[novel birch]

How do you get logs to update. I've been tryna get the best runs I've had to log on this site, but idk how to get it to do ithttps://www.warcraftlogs.com

[novel birch]

Maisara. Most pulls I was doing over 200k dps

[cerulean whale]

Hmmm yes its fine gj

Why ret pala did 86k at the end its nerfed or

[novel birch]

The screenshot I sent is the overall adverage for the entire key

[cerulean whale]

I think you will do more than this if you invite 1 augmentation

[novel birch]

I think, considering there wasn't an aug, that's pretty damn good for an outlaw

[cerulean whale]

Surely it is

I think you should try once with a good aug

Youll hit 150k overall i guess

[novel birch]

This was still without an AUG, but it went even better

[south crypt]

What key level?

[cerulean whale]

still better

[novel birch]

10. I still need bis pieces, and I'm helping a friend get gear

[ebon dock]

!log

[tacit minnow]

!macro

[ornate heath]

Why don't we macro trinkets to abilities?

• You want to use trinkets while BtE is active, but you can't macro them to BtE, as breaking vanish with a trinket will cause Subterfuge to not activate, so Vanish > BtE macro could fail.
• Trinkets are your only on demand burst damage, you sometimes want to hold it for specific mobs or vulnerability windows.
• You usually don't want to send it on a dying mob.

[radiant panther]

for opener:
:adr: AR + RTB + SND
maybe unnecessary question but
Is it really important to use before ?

[vivid vessel]

Nice bro!

Still no double leech tho

I'm sure it exist

It's like the one piece

Gotta keep looking for it

[inland acorn]

Yes, because you're reducing cooldown of RTB

[vivid vessel]

How could my weak aura not work lil bro

I made it

[inland acorn]

The cog icon for rtb, when bug happens ?

[vivid vessel]

Check the vod of our cavern, we do it as triple meele without losing uptime

[inland acorn]

It worked fine for me yesterday, during raid, when bug happened on like half of my pulls

[vivid vessel]

Tank positioning important

[vivid vessel]

Ye idk

[inland acorn]

I swear I can sometimes go through 8 weekly skyreach with it bugging 0 times

And sometimes it just disappears half of the time

[vivid vessel]

I actually got a rare one recently

You know how I said I think the bug trigger when you get a buff

Any buff

I got the bug triggered when I gained rtb buff!

Insta disappear

[inland acorn]

Its fine Zac

It will be fixed in next expansion

I'm actually really curious from code side of things, how does this bug happen, and why it's specifically RTB

[vivid vessel]

It's not

Happens for buffs that are multiple buffs

Assa apex has it

Same thing

It's a buff that can change to another buff

And I think warrior or dk have one similar aswell

[inland acorn]

You mean a buff that says buff X, buff Y abilities or w/e

[vivid vessel]

No

A buff with multiple buff ids

Like it changes buffs

Did that even exist before midnight

[torn plover]

Probably been asked a hundred times over but looking at the recent M+ class engagement and Rogue appears to be the least played class and was also probably the least played in TWW as well, why is it such an unpopular class nowadays?

[gaunt phoenix]

I think rogue has been unpopular in modern wow for a decade+

[inland acorn]

I mean it's a lot of factors, from just class flavour, to gameplay, shaky raid buff etc.

[gaunt phoenix]

ever since dragonflight the rogue leveling experience has been rather miserable

[inland acorn]

It's hard to point to single thing, being at fault for rogue being unpopular

Ye leveling defo plays big role in it

Like it's actually painful to level as rogue

[torn plover]

Do people not enjoy playing it? I have generally always enjoyed the gameplay, I even didn't mind having to use Vanish as an offensive ability the only problem I had is it felt like you were doing a lot of work to get the same results other classes got doing a 2 button rotation

[gaunt phoenix]

but i think after mop/wod rogue popularity has tapered off

[gusty pagoda]

Makes me feel special when I play it

[inland acorn]

I mean, just because you enjoy the gameplay doesn't mean someone else will, right

[torn plover]

True

[inland acorn]

We all have our tastes

Different things will make your brain go WHOA

[vapid tapir]

Rolling jackpot hits a spot I didn't knew existed untill this expansion

[gusty pagoda]

Maybe people don't like energy

Feral and WW don't get played much either

[gaunt phoenix]

some ppl think rogue is a lot of work for little reward, that it is a pvp class, that outlaw is a meme spec

[vapid tapir]

Doesn't help that rogue lvling is a pain untill you got some skills and oneshot everything as sub

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[inland acorn]

Even then you can't just be like

Pulling 10 mobs and just one shotting shit

Like some other classes can

[gusty pagoda]

Sub can

[vapid tapir]

I mean with evasion you can wing it

[inland acorn]

Yeah, once in a while if you have cds and defensives

Meanwhile

[vapid tapir]

just have to make sure everything is dead

[torn plover]

I heard leveling is pretty rough as Rogue but I have played the game so long now I suppose there is a disconnect between me and how a class feels to new players

[inland acorn]

Guardian druid

Press 3 abilities

[vapid tapir]

tanks are memes

[gusty pagoda]

Blood dk pulls the whole zone

[vapid tapir]

all tank specs are now bm level of easyness solo

[torn plover]

I introduced my partner to WoW and she struggled grasping the game with a lot of specs, eventually found her flow with Ret

[inland acorn]

Frost mage can also just pull shit and dont care, because you're slowing everything

As long as its not 6 casters

[gusty pagoda]

I'm pretty sure ret is the most popular spec for women maybe alongside bm

[gaunt phoenix]

ret/hunter/druid/mage also just has very defined and approachable class fantasy

[torn plover]

Yeah thats true, a lot of people lament Combat Rogue being redesigned to Outlaw

[inland acorn]

I always thought it's druid

Like resto/bamkin

[cerulean whale]

it is

Resto

[gusty pagoda]

Resto are like more mature women from my experience

Or dad gamers

[torn plover]

Never really played healer, looking at bars doesn't do it for me :c

[cerulean whale]

this

[torn plover]

Recently gave tanking a go, kinda just feels like DPSing with more interupts you and you don't die (or do dmg)

[cerulean whale]

i dont think u need to look at bars as healer maybe for cds

[gusty pagoda]

Healers permanently look at party frames

Picked it up recently

[cerulean whale]

yes

[gusty pagoda]

The only exception is mw, they look at netflix while spinning

[cerulean whale]

maybe shamans too?

[gusty pagoda]

Haven't tried resto sham yet but supposedly it's very chill

[cerulean whale]

ye

[gusty pagoda]

But I do think they need to do some spot healing, mw can just perma spin whenever there are 3+ targets

[cerulean whale]

yep

but imo shaman is stronger than mw and resto druid

[gusty pagoda]

Still need to level mine, think he's lvl 85

[cerulean whale]

try it once ye

[light mountain]

does anyone use class bars other than sensei?

recently feel like its been insanely slow at keeping up with my actual combo pts

[glass mortar]

wangbar

!wang

!wa

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[slow granite]

Guys, should i throw my money down the sink and change race?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes

to goblin

[inland acorn]

[slow granite]

And as far as i know dwarf (?) Its the best for outlaw, but If I was to try to play whichever spec is best what should I change into?
Even toh outlaw is way too funny compared to the others

[slow granite]

Mhhhhhh

[gaunt phoenix]

dwarf is overall bis

crit damage and stoneform

panda/mechagnome/tauren are the same dps, but they dont get stoneform

[inland acorn]

But

Transmog is biggest dps gain

[slow granite]

Yea that's a thing too

[gaunt phoenix]

ye so tauren falls to last place

fugly ass giant ass model

[slow granite]

Nelf are bad? Or maybe "ok" for other specs but not for outlaw

[gaunt phoenix]

i mean, no race is "bad"

[slow granite]

Keeping in mind its what, at most 2% dps gaia?

[inland acorn]

are racials even 1% dps difference ?

[slow granite]

Gain

I just want to get off undead

[inland acorn]

like if we compare lowest to highest

[gaunt phoenix]

yes, at most it is 1.5-2%

[inland acorn]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gaunt phoenix]

which i mean, is like 2 item levels

[slow granite]

They are too weird to mog around cuz of their posture

[gaunt phoenix]

it is a lot more than it should be

[inland acorn]

hmm I swear fuu had racial sim somewhere

[slow granite]

Not for the sake of minmaxing...but while we're at it..

[gaunt phoenix]

bloodmallet is fine

[slow granite]

Couldn't find them. But there'a bloodmallet

[slow granite]

Ye

[pastel oxide]

Pressing feint was a joke, itll kill you

[inland acorn]

Mechagnome top

[glass mortar]

ye because u have certain racials that are nearly 2% then certain racials (vulpera) that are basically worthless

[inland acorn]

Tf does even mechagnome get as racial

[glass mortar]

so that should be the maximum gap

passive ramping primary stat

ramps up over combat

[inland acorn]

Too bad it's ugly

[glass mortar]

its always good early in an expac then falls off later

[inland acorn]

gg

[glass mortar]

since its a flat amount

[inland acorn]

Void elf 5th, i see I've made good choice

[gaunt phoenix]

ye so dward is 1.8% over undead here

dwarf even

[slow granite]

What does it do?

[inland acorn]

Some passive damage

[glass mortar]

every minute u get a proc that increases damage by 5% for like 10s

something like that

[inland acorn]

and you get ability to dodge some shit with rift

[slow granite]

Dayum, say less

[gaunt phoenix]

they should make this graph relative

[slow granite]

I saw some rogues on night elfi?

Could it be?

[gaunt phoenix]

night elf you used to be able to shadowmeld random mechanics

i dont think thats a thing anymore?

[glass mortar]

u still can

[inland acorn]

Still can some I think

[fervent garden]

2% just to change to dwarf? I'm doing this today.

[glass mortar]

more relevant in pvp tho

[inland acorn]

are u undead rogue ?

[glass mortar]

their dps racial aint bad anyway

[slow granite]

Damn i can't...phone auto corrector keep changing the words..luckily elfo and elf are pretty much the same

[inland acorn]

tbh i don't think racials matter unless you're pushing highest content

[gaunt phoenix]

elfi? @hasty warren?

[inland acorn]

You'll gain more dps, just by learning how to RNG better

[gusty pagoda]

Never tried is so no idea how much dmg it does

[slow granite]

Yea 4 sure, i asked bc i wanted to get off from undead..goofy ahh posture

[gusty pagoda]

Can cloak it tho

[fervent garden]

im running 12's ftm, ill take the dps

[gaunt phoenix]

eh

[inland acorn]

I mean

Dwarf is nice to cleanse shit

But not mega required if you're doing weekly shit

[gaunt phoenix]

undead to dwarf dmg increase is more than most rotation errors

[inland acorn]

Even if

I press ambush ?

[gusty pagoda]

I think it works on most things that vanish works on

[glass mortar]

most

[slow granite]

The forbidden word

[glass mortar]

not all

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe

[slow granite]

Tyvm toh guys, always kind

[inland acorn]

Solo when are u gonna cook us new build

With ambush

[slow granite]

Imma try the mog i had in mind on a dwarf b4 toh

[inland acorn]

[gusty pagoda]

I have used it on the construct beams in MT, sacrifice table in MC and gargoyle in pit so far on my dh and those worked

Pretty nice for a racial

[inland acorn]

wowhead has wardrobe room type shit, where you can try transmog and animations

[pastel oxide]

If you cloak one you need to run into a 2nd. Also im pretty sure when you run into one it does the aoe, so if you cloak run into 2, youre now triggering 3 aoes for the healer to deal with. Youre better off saving cloak for her shield burn phase to take away those orbs

[inland acorn]

Healer problem

[gusty pagoda]

Yeah I asked earlier if it did group dmg or not when soaked because that's the reason I haven't tried it yet

I figured it would pulse dmg to group when soaked

[fervent garden]

sweet, already seeing the extra. now need a mog. i look like one of the seven dwarves at the moment.

[formal knot]

can't wait for the tier set that will buff HO build damage by 200% next tier and we will never press sinister strike ever again

[inland acorn]

How are you pressing ambush without vanish tho

[formal knot]

just get lucky ?

[gaunt phoenix]

it needs to give us a free talent point or aoe HO build is gonna be extremely cursed

[formal knot]

ill contact the devs to see if outlaw could get a few welfare talent points

[gaunt phoenix]

thx

[inland acorn]

I know solo that you have cooked some HO op build and are just keeping it secret

[fallen knot]

ok i'm thinking about coming back to wow: 1. is it a bad idea? 2. how cursed is outlaw for pve since i cant/wont play assa or sub ever? 3. should i want to go ranged instead, which classes are good rn? (don't say mage i will never play mage)

[inland acorn]

mage is in ass tier rn

for once

[fallen knot]

love that

[inland acorn]

at least for m+, in raid they're still good

[vivid vessel]

hopefully they just delete ho i still dont know why it exist

[glass mortar]

didnt have time to replace it

remember when takem was still on the talent tree until like 1 month before end of beta

[dim parrot]

I wonder if they tie HO to FB somehow

Trick gets KS

[haughty moat]

we can grapple the skip in MT before last boss ya?

[dim parrot]

Is brew+rsham better ST than guardian+MW or no

[dim parrot]

Yes ez

[haughty moat]

sweet

[hardy wigeon]

Crawth FB :))))

[buoyant stratus]

Looking cursory at 2 phys comp logs squish and ort did 77k together and speedyos brew rsham did 63k to degenetrius

Monksea and xhanon 66k

Then you look at meta comp logs and theres a lot of between 70-86k logs for bear mw

Mw just cranks

[cerulean portal]

ok im gearing my rshama

if u need rshama for 20+ u know what to do :>

[random stirrup]

My disc did 26k to degentrius and brings pi

[dim parrot]

I just feel so much safer with MW tbh

[fallen knot]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[cerulean portal]

u do?

they r always in melee. just next to u

doing zero mechanics and trying to kill u :>

[sullen walrus]

vers is still important for us? i have 2,17% xD

[inland acorn]

no

[cerulean portal]

not rly. its just nice to have stat

[dim parrot]

Yeh maybe chains in seat is only spot that’s bad

But I run into more rshams that can’t keep us topped

[cerulean portal]

what about ws last boss?

[sullen walrus]

thanks guys!

[inland acorn]

can't they tiger lust, or is it spec specific ability ?

[cerulean portal]

AA 3rd boss? most of em just in melee. looks like they do their orbs but they force u to do em 😄

[dim parrot]

They can true. I feel phys comp someone always stacks at least once in the dungeon at bad time

[cerulean portal]

otherwise wipe

[inland acorn]

well phys comp is indeed, quite melee stacked

if you run MW

[dim parrot]

I like playing with ele sometimes if they g

[cerulean portal]

YES

and they do shit dmg

so u r always 2nd :>

love em

[faint pendant]

I mean 5.5% for each rogue spec

[cedar kernel]

still the best gain of skyfury based

[grim steppe]

i need help i dont have a second myth trinket and this delve trink is simming higher than the aleria one what do
single target - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ipz7k3RjLMNGBaFFCtXYdG
7 targets (idk why 7) - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mgib4sJ6c11Q4uWoUE5fQh

[glass mortar]

what do u need help with

[grim steppe]

is the delve trinket really better?

[glass mortar]

the sims say it is

[grim steppe]

everywhere else i look it says it's garbage

[inland acorn]

well, because it is

[glass mortar]

i mean its a trinket stuck on hero track

[inland acorn]

But your profile seems to want slightly more haste

[glass mortar]

how many sources are giving you any trinkets on hero track that are "strong"

[inland acorn]

and you have only 33% crit

trinket provides both

also alleria trinket is not that strong really

plume and skyflare both beat it

and you should have easy access to both of those tbf

[glass mortar]

i mean i dont think its even underbudgeted really

just comparing it to like solar prism

if haste is wanted trinket should be fine

its just a mid hero track trinket and ur profile wants the haste

[gusty pagoda]

Holy shit arms

[glass mortar]

looks like ~117 agi budget on it or something like that on average

its basically just a haste stick

kinda sorta

[gaunt phoenix]

without the trinket you have 18.8% haste

[glass mortar]

oh yea ur profile desperatly wants haste

[inland acorn]

ye thats cooked

[gaunt phoenix]

the delve trinket does lose with bis gear

like bloodmallet profile

[grim steppe]

i'll see i have the prism in the item restoration

i used bonus rolls for sub gear

and still dont have guidon

[gusty pagoda]

How much does warrior/monk/sham buff give us combined?

[inland acorn]

skyflare wont help you, since you're missing a lot of haste

[gaunt phoenix]

u need a haste ring

you are 290 but missing a haste piece

though until you get Plume trinket, the difference is probably not a whole lot

[faint pendant]

yeah that's how they generate rage

[gaunt phoenix]

5%, 5%, 6%

[gusty pagoda]

Pretty good for ret as well it seems

[gaunt phoenix]

so like 16% total

[gusty pagoda]

That's pretty big

[gaunt phoenix]

yes

[gusty pagoda]

Now where do i adopt a monk, warrior and shaman?

[quiet root]

you click them when they pop up as applicants to your group

that's how i do it at least

[gaunt phoenix]

@grim steppe u could also craft an engineering helm with full haste

[gusty pagoda]

Damn y'all get applicants?

[grim steppe]

i dont have pants to cata

[gaunt phoenix]

wdym u are wearing them

[grim steppe]

well im still proging lura

as sub

but i will once i get

extra pants

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe you get lucky with lura helm which is also full haste

[grim steppe]

prayge

[keen belfry]

do we kill belorrelen today?
does plume drop?
if no does plume drop do i reorll feather?

3 part question

[faint pendant]

no
yes
no

[keen belfry]

we need real answers nobel

you will get no peace prize

[faint pendant]

you didn't say for whom the plume has to drop

[gaunt phoenix]

for whume does the plume presume

[frail veldt]

Idk blizz changed shit lol I've just seen it disappear a couple times recently

I'll try to catch it happening

[vivid vessel]

You understand it doesn't stop it from happening right

[keen belfry]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1048716096217284653/1509302635906207754/ezgif.com-video-to-gif-converter.gif

where my bear go

[mighty pivot]

vored by the floor

that bridge is buggy but at least it's not dawnbreaker buggy

[vivid vessel]

hm

considering dawnbreaker was the entire dungeon

i think this bridge might be the most bugged thing we ever got

similar to the boats in dawn i would say

[gaunt phoenix]

Wtf

[copper radish]

Fun times when a KS on the boats would send u thru the map 😂

[mighty pivot]

dunno those airships could bug in several different ways and not all you could mitigate. afaik all bridge bugs have to do with movement abilities like charge etc

[stable flame]

guys, I want to start raiding as dps and being a prot war main for m+ I decided to try other than fury or arms specs, so I decided to try rogue, am I right, the outlaw is the most mobile and higher apm spec out of three? These perks I'd missing from the war and I want to keep it within the new class

[safe pasture]

def highest apm idk about mobile feel like grap so slow now

miss the faster retract

[mighty pivot]

it's still most mobile

[vivid vessel]

the bridge is up before the visual, but also sometimes not, there is los when you swap platform so the mobs on bridge will legit afk back and forth in the middle of the bridge, all charges type abilities can send you trough floor, if boss get pulled and mobs are on the bridge the mobs reset

[mighty pivot]

even with base cd grapple since we can no longer afford to take utility nodes

and sprint on restless blades is also very good

[stable flame]

thank you, then outlaw it is:)

[safe pasture]

if you havent tried unholy you might like that too ngl always something to press

[dim parrot]

One mob was on the bridge and reset the boss at 80% on my 21 I’m still salty

[rancid silo]

why is shaman buff good for rogue is there anything niche like it is for sub?

Or is it just good.

[burnt tangle]

Windfury is op

[last cape]

so you know how we melee things.

[burnt tangle]

Especially in midnight a lot of damage is autoattacks

[last cape]

imagine if we had a chance to double that

[rancid silo]

So no niche thing like sub

just good

[last cape]

sub likes the mastery

every melee class likes the chance to double melee

[rancid silo]

Thats not what I mean but yes

[last cape]

almost every melee class*

[gaunt phoenix]

for outlaw, melee is a lot of our damage, and it is more zero in procs, mastery procs, energy procs

[rancid silo]

Ok thats what I was looking for thank you

[radiant wyvern]

were very energy starved and we get energy procs from offhand autos

[trail sparrow]

what talents do you guys play for vael mythic ? just m+ for more cleave ?

[gaunt phoenix]

just full M+

[dire quiver]

Any good power bar addons ?

[frail veldt]

WANGBAR

I use default though

[keen belfry]

mewo i might go back to defautl cdm + wangbar

[frail veldt]

DEFAULT cdm

bro

why

can default CDM still not center?

[frail veldt]

can default cdm customize stack size

[keen belfry]

and wangcdmbar

[frail veldt]

and cooldown font

or swipe

or fucking anything

[keen belfry]

u do need to get the cdmcentered addon which is bit wild

[frail veldt]

smh my head

[keen belfry]

what are the cdm changes coming in .7

resources?

[frail veldt]

yeah your setup seems pretty easy with default

I have like multiple bar locations

so I literally cant

also wait @keen belfry

how do you track potion cds

or healthstone

[keen belfry]

u wont

itll be actionbars

[frail veldt]

you dont hide your action bars?

[keen belfry]

i do

u can disable certain ones

[frail veldt]

ye

is there some performance benefit for going back to cdm is that why you want to do it?

[keen belfry]

vibes

outlaw used to press one builder into a finisher

remember that

[buoyant stratus]

U still can just be built diff and proc 2cp off every finisher, opportunity, and aces

Simply hit bro

[keen belfry]

mmmmmm

remember ps at 1cps to 7

rememebr that?

[glass mortar]

dont believe that was real

[keen belfry]

or was it to 6

i dont remmeber

[glass mortar]

awang just making stuff up again

[random stirrup]

rememeber 1fth

[buoyant stratus]

U mean when fan procced 2cp per hit

When it first came out

[keen belfry]

1fth generated more combo points than current fth

imagine that

[random stirrup]

1fth my goat...

tww2 outlaw

[keen belfry]

explain this to me lil bro

[glass mortar]

?

clearly edited gif

look at those weird symbols over ur CP bar

[keen belfry]

look how many combo points, so beautiful

[glass mortar]

never seen symbols like that in my life

idk what fanmade outlaw varient on a private server this is

[inland acorn]

20s adr

[keen belfry]

you used to press pistol shot and gain 6 combo points

how u press it and gain 4

and then build again

[glass mortar]

but blizzard knows better then to let us generate full combo point bars with single builders

[keen belfry]

too braindead

[gaunt phoenix]

i miss

[keen belfry]

same, i even miss rtb supercharger

[glass mortar]

👑

[keen belfry]

somehow

i really enjoyed thinking about how u can justg reroll here and go into crackshot window with big supercharger

[cinder relic]

RTB sc was cool

[frail veldt]

saaaaaaaaaaame

ER combo point minigame was so fun

[keen belfry]

how did they rework 1fth or whatever and give us worse version than 1fth while having 2

[frail veldt]

it was the badluck protection we needed

its like peak solution to bad cp gen rng

10/10

[keen belfry]

i can save outlaw

who do i need to call

[glass mortar]

uh you think you have solutions to outlaw?

ok isnt there someone you forgot to ask tho?

🏄‍♂️ 🏄‍♀️

[glass mortar]

🥰

[craggy barn]

er cp game rn would be so weird

[frail veldt]

it woudl be great wdym

I mean

tbh it would prob get wasted a lot when you have 2 buff or higher

cuz the ss proc chance is so absurdly high