outlaw

[proven ocean]

Are WAs back

[frail veldt]

cuz it is WAs

[kindred nacelle]

meekauras picked up as weak auras left, so in a way it never left but it did get a rename

[proven ocean]

Its not WAs if its from a different addon

[frail veldt]

its the same addon

[kindred nacelle]

and a labotomy on functionality

[frail veldt]

but its functionality is super limited

[proven ocean]

What is it called then

[frail veldt]

WAs

[proven ocean]

Show

[kindred nacelle]

m33kauras

[proven ocean]

Ingame name

[frail veldt]

literally in game

you type

/wa

[proven ocean]

Ye thats not weakauras

[frail veldt]

like before

[proven ocean]

Noob

[frail veldt]

and it says

weak aura

[proven ocean]

Thats just a command

[random stirrup]

mewo we cannot be falling for this ragebait

[frail veldt]

its also the name of the addon

[proven ocean]

[glass mortar]

mewo....

[kindred nacelle]

I can also type /wa to bring up meekauras

[proven ocean]

If it has a different name

[frail veldt]

its okay he'll just block me

[kindred nacelle]

it's a fork

[proven ocean]

Then it aint wa’s

Its meekauras

[glass mortar]

? im pretty sure its an addon

nice try tho bozo

ragebaiting as hard as ross

💅

anyway

[proven ocean]

If u didnt know why they were called wa’s thats on you

[frail veldt]

anyways @vivid vessel make a unit frame control extension to WAs and submit a PR to the m33kaura people if they have them open

would be sick

[kindred nacelle]

https://klipy.com/gifs/give-me-forky-food-fork--k01KS5T0XWW577E9GRYB29G8SHD

[proven ocean]

Bro’s calling every tracker in the game weakauras

[frail veldt]

unit frame control that integrates with WAs dynamic group stuff would be sick

do it

[maiden beacon]

M33K

[proven ocean]

Aintnoway u got ragebaited without me ragebaiting and then calling it a ragebait

[frail veldt]

never forget

I wont let the memory of WA die

[random stirrup]

i am one with the ragebait, it is how i recognize it

[vivid vessel]

you dont understand

[random stirrup]

it is just another way of life for me..

[proven ocean]

Midgame player typing alert alert

[vivid vessel]

im not worried about wa performance

to make debuffs tracking with weak aura or any addon

i have to code it all myself

and auras tracking

is a touchy thing

[proven ocean]

Anyways

Zac send me ur WAs

[vivid vessel]

its easy to make something thjat is bad for performance

[proven ocean]

Nvm dont i wont use them anyway

[frail veldt]

I just want better visual customization of the unit frames

[proven ocean]

[frail veldt]

integrated with WA grouping and anchoring

[proven ocean]

Guys im lvl 90!

Back in mists of pandaria!

How am i lvl 80 now..

[timber knoll]

am i tripping or did the recommended outlaw build for 12.0.5 trickster not have sleight of hand before

[proven ocean]

We’re leveling backwards or what

[frail veldt]

it didnt used to yeah

[maiden beacon]

gonna check in dungeon now

[timber knoll]

ok gotcha

[vivid vessel]

i have no clue what this means

[maiden beacon]

WORKS

[cerulean portal]

what is happening

[kindred nacelle]

last thing to check is M+ then, when you have time

[frail veldt]

wait what are you testing the BF target count?

or the PS stacks count

also send vid

[cerulean portal]

who said wa's back?

send vid

why force ppl to do all that

[storm spade]

would just be the bf target count as thats what he was after i believe

[frail veldt]

okay that makes sense

yeah that works in m+

[twilit axle]

What if we unionized and petitioned blizzard to bring back WAs?

[frail veldt]

@kindred nacelle hes not testing the PS stacks thing I dont think

[storm spade]

that wa also checks every frame im pre sure so probably runs like shite

[kindred nacelle]

I'll get it tonight and post here @ you

now if I can just get something to tell me when I can use stoneform to clear mechanics instead of having to guess I'll be happy

[cerulean portal]

wut

[frail veldt]

I would just like the unit frame position/color/bar behavior/anchoring/etc to be controllable through the WA interface

and allow for some triggers to be made to control some of those things dynamically

[cinder relic]

Bro playing ww is so funny

Imagine KS, where you can't use utility or anything, except instead of doing none of your damage, it's literally all of your damage

And you also do it twice as often

And also the duration is longer

[rugged wigeon]

you've actually made me wanna try ww

[cinder relic]

And then imagine thinking rogue is squishy and bad self healing

[rugged wigeon]

easy rotation?

[normal violet]

are we talking about fists of fury

[cinder relic]

And then you press vivify

[cinder relic]

Yer

[cinder relic]

Eh

[keen belfry]

i did a 21 WS with a WW, he got the magic debuff 3 times and died 3 times

[cinder relic]

Kinda?

[normal violet]

I never played ww, I just assumed fists of fury is channeled like ks based on your explanation

[cinder relic]

Fof is KS except it's the entire centralizing force of the spec

[frail veldt]

ye channeled and can move but slowly but you cant press defensives like rogue can

[cinder relic]

Like the entire spec revolves around fof

It does like 50% of ur damage

[normal violet]

oof...

[frail veldt]

yeah ww is honestly jsut as neglected as rogue

[cinder relic]

It's super fun tho

[frail veldt]

I think blizz just doesnt like energy/cp specs

[glass mortar]

am i missing something or the average cast time of fists on vor logs is 2.5 seconds

for WW

isnt that like 30% faster then kspree

[keen belfry]

im pretty sure WW blasts too

unsure if its ethical dmg or not tho

[cinder relic]

It does

I'm going crazy in these 12s

[glass mortar]

they do cast it waaaaaay more often tho

[cinder relic]

Nobody stands a chance against my 273 ww

[glass mortar]

WW mobility is also goated almost as good as outlaws

roll jump air dash is just so good

any class with an air dash honestly

air dashes are so fun in this game

[frail veldt]

bro

I HATE

roll

[glass mortar]

nah its gr8

[frail veldt]

the fact that its distance is affected

[glass mortar]

just dont take the increased range

[frail veldt]

BY SLOWS

[glass mortar]

[frail veldt]

IS SO DUMB

[cinder relic]

Roll is whatever, fsk is fun

[frail veldt]

roll is so poorly designed I swear

fsk is cool yeah

[glass mortar]

i dont think thats been a thing for a long time

[cinder relic]

I miss the pvp talent that let you rotate with fsk

[frail veldt]

it is

[glass mortar]

i played WW for all of TWW and the satrt of this expac

[cinder relic]

Need that shit expeditiously

[glass mortar]

i dont remember my roll distance ever being reduced

even in pvp

[frail veldt]

in pvp its hilarious

in fact

[glass mortar]

while 70% snared'

[frail veldt]

in pvp

with flag debuff

that reduces move speed cap

roll doesnt take you as far

lol

its so goofy

[glass mortar]

oh ok thats probably a little different then a snare... but i could see that

[frail veldt]

it doesnt do anything

you just roll

in place

well roll is literally a speed boost

its a sprint

which is why if you roll off a hill

you keep moving

but if you are affected by something that caps your move speed

or slows you

then the distance roll takes you

is affected

its insanely jank

I dont know of any other dash in the game that behaves this way

[glass mortar]

it is very jank the way its momentum carries with terrain ye its super fun tho idk

especially with the air dash

[frail veldt]

air dash is cool

[cinder relic]

Its not blizzard, its the playerbase

[cursive gyro]

Speed boosts in raids and dungeons are affected by fall speed. If you slow fall people they run slower.

[cinder relic]

Energy and combo points is gneerally the reason I hear most ppl bounce off of rogue

[frail veldt]

sure lil of both though

[cinder relic]

Rogue has been unpopular for over a decade at this point

WW has always been very unpopular

Feral is feral

It's just a very difference resource that a majority of specs in wow dont have to engage with

[cursive gyro]

Waiting and counting are my two favorite things.

[vivid vessel]

wish they deleted energy

[glass mortar]

i just wish theyd made it so outlaw can only run out of energy when ur fuking up

not just in normal gameplay with meh rng

[vivid vessel]

ye but we kept asking for that

and the response

[glass mortar]

its a weird resource to use for a spec you aim to be gcd locked for sure

[vivid vessel]

was to nerf energy more

every tier

true story btw

cant believe we started complaining about energy in like

s3 df

and its gotten worse

every season

as if they were listening !

and chosing to do the opposite

of what everyone is asking for

but who am I to know what is fun and not

they know better obviously

[glass mortar]

ur gameplay wouldnt feel as fun at its peaks if you didnt just randomly run out of energy and turn into classic combat rogue occasionally

🥰

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

Its time

[vivid vessel]

fuck you

[cinder relic]

Yeah I mean that is energy/cp at the end of the day lmfao

[proven ocean]

See you in a year or so

[cinder relic]

most of the time when I play other shit I'm like "bro why do I have 5 different buttons I can press rn" and i don't fw it

[cursive gyro]

Yeah but outlaw is kind of supposed to be flat profile, no? I don't want peaks. I want to be a lawnmower.

[cinder relic]

Like even arms rn feels so busy

[random stirrup]

this is such an unbelievably foreign take to me

[fresh acorn]

Dude so true

I feel overwhelmed a lot of the time

It’s fun

I get a proc on another class and I’m like wtf that mean

[cinder relic]

Bro I press a button on arms

HEROIC STRIKE IS FLASHING

EXECUTE IS FLASHING

OVERPOWER IS FLASHING

COLOSSUS SMASH IS TICKING DOWN

Meanwhile on rogue its just check CP check energy check CDs

and just play

it's so easy

[fresh acorn]

It’s funny bc I say this

[random stirrup]

decisions are cool though

[fresh acorn]

And then slam that ace proc in the 0.8s gcd like it’s nothing

[timid portal]

make smokebomb into crackshot

[random stirrup]

isnt the game too easy and boring if you only have 2 things to check and your next button press is mega obvious

[glass mortar]

they gotta do something to keep the specs that operate at 1.5s gcd speed interesting after all

😩

[cursive gyro]

Not when you play at 80+ cpm. Most classes are like 40s.

And you -can- press other buttons. You're just punished if you didn't make the right decision.

[random stirrup]

outlaw is not 80 cpm anymore

closer to 60

[hollow kite]

this is why i used to play Frost DK, it felt like whack a mole

[cursive gyro]

I feel like moving toward CD gated dmg has been a play to homogenize skill levels. Less of a gap if 85% of your dmg is gated behind one button.

[cinder relic]

Nah

I will forver say that I think sub in MFO wasn't hard to begin with

So I don't even find this version that much easier

genuinely, to me, the like

[cursive gyro]

Maybe?

[cinder relic]

Weird GCD sequencing you have to do sometimes at the end of dance for your 2nd sectec based on shadow technique procs about as hard as anything else in MFO

[glass mortar]

wcl apm is not accurate

it counts PS as 3 actions

[random stirrup]

logs are counting pistol shot 3 times

[glass mortar]

and SS procs as 2

[cursive gyro]

Ah. Gotcha.

[glass mortar]

usually theres similar padding in other specs

im pretty sure DH logs still read consuming/picking up souls as actions

its funny

[cerulean portal]

gg nerfs inc

[glass mortar]

that seems low, thought outlaw apm was closer to 70 still

like 67 as fatebound or something

[random stirrup]

fatebound is 69

[glass mortar]

oh but trickster will be a bit slower

ye

trickster

[random stirrup]

killing spree moment

[cursive gyro]

I uh .. I might play fatebound bc it feels better.

Don't tell anyone.

[glass mortar]

63 is wildly low for any outlaw variant

classic wow lookin ass

smh

[random stirrup]

easily the hardest part of new sub yes, the problem is that it is the only hard part of new sub and the old versions had like 7 other things to think about that were mildly hard

[cinder relic]

I just disagree with the primiss

premise

ik new sub is easier

But I also thought sub in all of TWW was easy

[languid kestrel]

I always thought it was super weird people referred to sub as if it was crazy hard to play in tww

[random stirrup]

off the top of my head

flag ramp timings ahead of required burst
symbols second cast timing, watching cdr/cp to see when to press ahead of sectec
(in lou) - dancing ahead of time to fit cold blood in exactly when it came up between blades
(in mfo) - reacting to offgcd mega late sht procs since coup delay xd
shuriken storm in st to preserve unseen blade when coup ready
on any relevant multitarget/spread cleave style fight - rupture timings and maintaining on multiple targets (oab, soul hunters)
(in mfo) - energy pooling to coup storm coup outside dance after raw sectec before the 5s timer ran out
(in lou) - rupture spam to not lose tier stacks near blades
general calculations regarding dance cdr and when to start pooling sht for blades

all nuance lost in midnight

[languid kestrel]

To be fair like half of those points are tier set based. Tier sets are always more complex as the tiers go on in an expansion

[random stirrup]

the first mfo one was just amplified by double coup

it still happened in other tiers

idk what people did with cb before lou i wasnt playing at the time

[languid kestrel]

I started playing rogue in lou so idk

[random stirrup]

it stopped being an optimization in mfo, except when you were holding blades for other reasons

and then its back

[languid kestrel]

I think there’s still room for them to add a ton of nuance back through tier sets, we just have to see if they actually do it or not

[random stirrup]

this is with the nuance from tier sets

next season sub loses 4s on blades

and prob the 90s haste trinket

[buoyant stratus]

Maybe its a blessing in disguise

45 sec mastery trinket and tirr set that goes brazy

[tight kernel]

Where my proff people at

am I just giga unlucky on alts with multi craft of am i doing something wrong?

[buoyant stratus]

Just rng

Git lucky

[tight kernel]

dam rip

[buoyant stratus]

Max thr multicraft knowledge node for alch

Helps

I assune ur doing flasks n shi

[tight kernel]

yea

i proc'd 9 on rogue

but 4 on two alts

rip

[buoyant stratus]

Unlack

[random stirrup]

dk only had stuff added in midnight btw 🙂

[buoyant stratus]

Next tier set becomes every X cp you spend while dance is active empowers your secret technique to summon X clones

Then node 4 could be something like: your secret technique clones function with apex talent SMILE

[random stirrup]

will outlaw even press blade rush once tier is gone

or is that button deadge too

[buoyant stratus]

Who can say

Maybe they press ghostly strike and echoing reprimand

[random stirrup]

i am pretty sure ghostly strike is dead and gone

[gaunt palm]

shame we private log l'ura 🙁

[maiden beacon]

at what key lvl do u start looting mythic gear?

[gaunt phoenix]

u dont

at +10 you can bonus roll mythic gear

but the regular loot is not mythic

[cursive gyro]

Don't want guilds learning your strat and taking your world first Lura?

[viscid scaffold]

how long is it till next season do u know by chance?

surely its not september

[glass mortar]

we did before tier no?

it wasnt just press on cd asap under all circumstances level

button hits hard

especially in aoe

[random stirrup]

think the leak is mid august or so

[vale girder]

What's the raid buff at

[gaunt palm]

I think my guild dont want ppl to play for good logs

[mighty pivot]

when did they fix TWW's perma augrune to give 6 agi as specified instead of 2?

[vale girder]

6%?

[random stirrup]

at least 2 weeks ago

[cursive gyro]

My guild doesn't have that problem. No one has good logs to begin with.

[gaunt palm]

[viscid scaffold]

damn

[frail veldt]

Unless at max energy lol

But yeah br is insane

Damage energy uncapped aoe

[buoyant cosmos]

They pushed the turbulant timeways stuff on the PTR and left a bunch of dates in which led to the august guesses

[timid portal]

i think you still press it for energy no?

[glass mortar]

im pretty sure the only rules we had to not press it before tier were if you will cap energy during the gcd or if you still have the previous BR buff or something like that

so yea we will definitly still be pressing it post tier set

[random stirrup]

idk i didnt play outlaw early on

[cinder relic]

Yeah that's fair. To me like, most of the shit didn't matter

[random stirrup]

i was just curious

[glass mortar]

its a good button

just needs 2 charges

😠

[frail veldt]

Id put it like 3rd on the list of 2 charges

behind adr and bte

[glass mortar]

2 charges on all of it

[viscid scaffold]

well then i hope for a quick lura kill and chill

[buoyant cosmos]

progstats kinda bleak

[gusty pagoda]

so apparently discordant beam on final boss seat does physical dmg

[buoyant cosmos]

Are you done with Belo?

[gusty pagoda]

how does a beam even do physical dmg

[viscid scaffold]

what

[craggy barn]

raw force

[languid kestrel]

It’s a sound based ability in theory I guess, but it should be sonic damage

[gusty pagoda]

I died because I used cloak as a defensive

[buoyant cosmos]

https://progstats.io/tier/46-voidspire-dreamrift-mqd#Midnight-Falls

[gusty pagoda]

I guess evasion works?

[viscid scaffold]

should die next raid - saw almost 2 egg in what ? 20pulls

[craggy barn]

try eva next time i gues

lol

[glass mortar]

i mean isnt sonic damage physical?

[timid shoal]

they ever fix the bte bug?

[languid kestrel]

You won’t dodge it with evasion

[random stirrup]

physical that ignores armor!

[languid kestrel]

Yeah that’s what I’m saying, it should be sonic and not physical

[buoyant cosmos]

Should be fine then

[craggy barn]

what bug

[timid shoal]

in the pins

[viscid scaffold]

yeah idk they nerfed the shit out of these bosses - crown died in 44 pulls

[craggy barn]

afaik they havent

[viscid scaffold]

didnt they

get crown, belo and lura

well also much more geared now

[buoyant cosmos]

he was talking about the bte bug

[viscid scaffold]

my fault g

[kindred nacelle]

It works in M+

[buoyant cosmos]

just keeping you sane

[kindred nacelle]

that gives me a bar that's orange when at 3 count and red at 6 count, which is all I wanted

well, I wanted a WA but I settle for this

also tested the bladeflurry range mob count and melee range WA and they both worked great in M+

[frail veldt]

Oh wow I wonder what he's checking

Gotta look into the updates lol that's op

[vivid vessel]

thats just the cdm no ?

[kindred nacelle]

that's the bliz opp tracker and then loading that into ellesmereui

[kindred nacelle]

yessir

and then ellesmere over the top

I didnt even test without ellesmere though to see what 3 vs 6 looks like. I assume no recolors

[hallow spoke]

Did any1 do crystal on lura and happen to have a pov?

[formal thunder]

are more people running prism than plume for the sole reason that even hc plume is difficult to get? or is simming skewed towards plume for one reason or another?

[frail veldt]

Yeah but the cdm doesn't do the coloring based on 3 vs max stacks though does it?

[warped spruce]

are there any dungeons addons that will say "aoe inc"

i used to have one before the purge. wondering if something like it is back now

[keen belfry]

You can do literally scanning of the bar for elements and render stuff based on that

Like you could make a PS addon based on your action button glowing or not

I’m curious what he uses to differentiate between 3 and 6 tho

[strange kelp]

WangUI when?

[keen belfry]

WangWang

[frail veldt]

yeah this is what im curious about

[keen belfry]

Open the addon in vscode I bet ai can find it

[frail veldt]

I will probably be doing that later tonight

just pull up ellesui and see what theyre checking

for now im stuck in the office

[keen belfry]

Gym rn nbd

It’s nbd

[frail veldt]

what are you hittin today

[split swallow]

guys can i ask, swap on outlaw for learning, cant understand when i should use KS

[frail veldt]

KS is 2nd highest prio finisher behind bte

you can cancel it early at 6cp

[split swallow]

so i should use it when my bte on cd?

[frail veldt]

yep

unless you are in the situation where you are supposed to hold bte

which you do when adr is <30s cd

so in that situation you can send KS even with bte off cd cuz you are holding bte

[keen belfry]

Just skwat

[frail veldt]

noice noice

I was off for a week

and squatted on tuesday

[split swallow]

adr its what sry

[frail veldt]

and im still sorre af

[frail veldt]

adrenaline rush

[split swallow]

ah

im holding bte when adr <30 sec always?

[frail veldt]

yeah

cuz you want bte ready for the supercharged cps that adr gives you

[split swallow]

hm just reading wowhead and adr on cd

i was always pressing)

[frail veldt]

correct adr on cd

[pure folio]

U hold bte not adr

[frail veldt]

^

[split swallow]

ah

[timid portal]

you hold adr if bte is 1 gcd away

if more

just send adr

[frail veldt]

is that a real rule?

[timid portal]

i think solo was mentioning it

[split swallow]

im so tilted i was goind in 15 key when i swap from sin, and doing aug dps, ppls blame me so hard "how u can be 3700"

[timid portal]

or awang

but 1 gcd vs possibly 2x bte sc

[frail veldt]

well it should never happen if you hold bte properly right?

I think the only hold adr rule

is holding adr

after your opener

since you prep

you can hold adr for bte to come back up

after the first adr

[timid portal]

i mean when you go with prep

on opener

[frail veldt]

yeah you can hold it until your bte ready

[timid portal]

you just bte on cd

[frail veldt]

cuz it also extends cloud coverage

[split swallow]

which yt guide guys u can reccomend ?

i saw only woxtoxic

[timid portal]

i dont think there is more than wox

[frail veldt]

I dont know if theres a good up to date yt guide

[timid portal]

that is worth mentioning

[slim hare]

wowtoxic is the best one

[frail veldt]

I think shindig might have made one

[slim hare]

and its up to dqte

[frail veldt]

#outlaw-faq is where all the info is

if you study that hard enough you can play outlaw perfectly

[timid portal]

you can also just watch zac pov

on his twitch

[split swallow]

ye im study and my problem is i forgot rolling and idk how hold buttons correctly also adr and bte correctly way to use

[frail veldt]

yeah outlaw takes practice

lot of small rules

[split swallow]

but i rly enjoy compare to sin and sub

its dopamine playstyle

[timid portal]

i think someone created addon for reminder

[timid portal]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/rogueflow

[frail veldt]

I think most cdms can do it

I have mine set to glow red when rtb is missing

[modern shoal]

Hey chat, is there an faq on how to sim outlaw? Just dungeon slice? I’m no where near the amount of dps my character sims to

[frail veldt]

dslice is accurate for making gearing/talent decisions

but not going to necessarily be accurate to your overall

you can try using droute, I think zac shared one lil while ago might be closer

[modern shoal]

Doing 12s at 279 and hardstuck to about 92k overall. My gear is ass but I should def be doing wayy more

[frail veldt]

sim your st

and compare that to what you do on st bosses

or just hit dummies and see how close you can get

[modern shoal]

Just 1 boss 5min for st ?

[frail veldt]

ye

adjust the raid buffs if you want to compare to yourself doing it in a group

like you might not always have monk, sham, war, hunt, druid buff etc

[modern shoal]

Wow it’s saying 101k

I max out at 62 on st

Even with jackpot

[frail veldt]

yeah probably rotational issues

101k seems high for 279 ilvl though

[north nexus]

make sure you're not simming with perfect buffs cos thats not gonna happen in m+

[frail veldt]

make sure you adjust the raid buffs

I would expect unbuffed to be closer to like 85k

[modern shoal]

It had perfect buffs . Running one right now with just a food buff sky fury and monk buff

My average group

82k

[frail veldt]

yeah that sounds about right

[pure folio]

def a rotation thing, log a run

[modern shoal]

I have some logs. Not home rn but I can post if yall don’t mind taking a look

[pure folio]

ya send one u did good in

tyt tho, ill look at it when i get home from library

[split swallow]

well guys after u saying me ks its second finisher prio his dps on my meter like 2.9%

thats also like my dungeon slice

also can i ask about slice and dice, should i use him only on first pull or everytime when he drop like first finisher?

because i saw my dispatch pop him

[frail veldt]

Dispatch grants slice and dice yeah

So you only need to put it up at the start of the dungeon

!prekey

[ornate heath]

• Use Adrenaline Rush to activate Loaded Dice.
• As Trickster, use KS to activate Disorienting Strikes.
• Do NOT use RTB before the key, you will lose it.
• Use SND during the bubble once the key starts.

[modern shoal]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Aa9X7vRK1fGkxy2w?fight=29&type=damage-done&options=65536

Here is one of my better keys ig

Had an Aug but still better than my average key recently

I’m also an Aug player so could just be melee pains

[gusty pagoda]

Just found out I've been running keys for 2 days without using dancing steel & grand melee....

was wondering why my dmg was feeling so shit , never swapped out of raid build

[split swallow]

guys after preperation should i hold next adr because first still give me buff?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

[keen belfry]

imagine if u could stack ar

W

[gaunt palm]

If you could chose, would you have AR stacking duration or effect?

[keen belfry]

wym

oh like

double ar power

or 30 seond ar?

30 second ar i think

[gaunt palm]

But 0.6GCD and 150% energy regen??

[teal garnet]

How do I sim for a fight like Beloren without a completely unique to Beloren sim script? I see Zac is using Guidon ( I assume because its the best he has/you cant really use a 3m trinket because of holding for egg phase )
Do I just send a certain amount of time, or just eliminate 3m trinkets and use the best 2m or 1.30 I have?

[keen belfry]

im just thinking stuff like, youd probably end up holding ar at times more than youd want to

to make sure u have

[gaunt palm]

ye true

[keen belfry]

while with 30 second ar u slam it and it covers everthing

but i would like a big outlaw burst window

[soft abyss]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

• Use Adrenaline Rush to activate Loaded Dice.
• As Trickster, use KS to activate Disorienting Strikes.
• Do NOT use RTB before the key, you will lose it.
• Use SND during the bubble once the key starts.

[frail veldt]

I would like a burst window that could be moved around without losing overall dps very much

[keen belfry]

yeah sitting on ar is ass always

[gaunt palm]

Maybe its what they tried to do with Prep? Being a CDR spec makes it difficult to introduce burst window spells, but since prep is off our cdr, its not as punishing to hold

it just still feels shit idk

[keen belfry]

i still think my least fav thing about losing UHUH is actively having to think about not pressing AR at end of a pull

i really dislike that

but yes i know thats what cd specs always do

but wer are cdr spec not cd spec!

[frail veldt]

or BF

and yeah same

or just how much value we lose when theres bad chain timing

like getting your ace procs/a jackpot at the end of a pack

[keen belfry]

bf was less annoying than i thought it owuld be, but i still have to think about it sometimes

[frail veldt]

then having some RP

its insanely awful

[keen belfry]

but thats usually with bad tanks

[frail veldt]

yeah it doesnt happen too often

I feel like adr is more often

adr is kinda long

as far as a cd goes

so you have to think about it

[keen belfry]

we should be able to stealth and ar not fall off

and delete subterfuge

[radiant wyvern]

uhuh without subterfuge would be nice

[gaunt palm]

Im fully socketet + lura ring rn, but I still cannot make my sim prefer that crit effect gem. Why do they even make it if its useless

[frail veldt]

how much crit do you have

[frail veldt]

weird

dont you need different gems

can you link sim?

[gaunt palm]

ye im simming all combinations

[frail veldt]

v surprising

also nice gear fam

[gaunt palm]

ye I think im good

just a new mainhand

wait do I need to press the "only max colors"

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xpWCc3xwc75XbhwDf4Rfjw

[glass mortar]

u used to need to press the thingy to force multicolor gems for the crit gem last expac

idk if its improved since then tho

[gaunt palm]

Look at the 194.664 one, it uses the crit gem but only orange gems

something is wrong

[frail veldt]

yeah

it doesnt have any combos

of gems for the crit damage

[pastel oxide]

Does that auto kick macro work with kidney too?

[frail veldt]

the tab? should technically

it just uses the tab logic which prioritizes casting mobs

so if you replaced kick with kidney it would kidney a nearby casting mob

[gaunt palm]

Ye ok so I forced it max colors and its not better
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3GhfzUUZDobTAxv5VNUiTo

[buoyant stratus]

34dps better

Respec EVERYTHING

[gaunt palm]

not worth the gold im poor

[buoyant stratus]

🥀

[slow granite]

do u guys know any cheat codes to get out of queue simulator?

some key combination or whatever

[vapid sundial]

Friends

[slow granite]

[slim hare]

you asked for cheat code tho

its the only one

[frail veldt]

wild ngl

[long barn]

Anyone offer some advice on gameplay

This is scenario.

Stage 3: 8 seconds left
Loaded dice: 6 seconds left
ADR is ready
KiR is down, a ways off from coming up

Do you reroll the Stage 3 early?

Or do you send ADR and then reroll once Stage 3 expires?

[frail veldt]

I would just adr there and waste an LD so you get 8 seconds of stage 3 while in adr

[gaunt palm]

I kinda vibe it. If prep is on long cd. I know the next LD might be the last before I have to raw roll again, so I might chose to lose stage 3 for double LD.

Probably not if 8 seconds left tho

[split swallow]

guys why we should recast BF at 4 or fewer combo? not on 1-2, in big pulls we cant?

[golden stump]

Having 79 myth crests feels...racist somehow

I can't put my finger on it but I hate it here

[vapid sundial]

god i love league

people are saying it in this chat now too

[keen belfry]

this is a commone question here the basic answer is vibe it out

im not rerolling a jackpot or 3 buff with like 13 secodns left but i am if it has like 6-7

6 7

but its all vibe

[kind otter]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bzEKd2ip6BP9fpx3QTLZr7 do i follow this? is there anyway to check what haste i'll be with this gear?

[signal rampart]

I hit ITL 285 today.

[gaunt phoenix]

thats 25% haste which is normal

awkward but you have to rerun it in quick sim to see

[near osprey]

how r yall getting above 130k single target in sims? i cant find better then what i got on at 128k dps

[tight egret]

Is there an addon that lets you make additional ability progress bars? Like if I wanted AR above my character, but evasion off to the side?

[vivid vessel]

https://giphy.com/gifs/meme-gifzbox-six-seven-RVCJ3vwebUGDpoy7Tm

[kind otter]

128k in single target build?

[kind otter]

Ty ❤️

[near osprey]

ye on sims patch 5 min

[kind otter]

Lemme see what I sim in my Lura build

I get 124k st in dungeon spec

With raid buffs tho

Probably just a gear issue tho no?

I just got 131k in st

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kgZCgG8oiU5rKyeZABCCkS

Could probably get more if I swap flickering steel aswell

[near osprey]

i have the exact gear as you

a few of my pieces are like 279

like 3

[kind otter]

I’m 290.75

[near osprey]

im 287

[kind otter]

Fully myth track upgraded

Well theres ur answer then

[near osprey]

no shot it makes up that much damage

4k dps?

from 3 ilvl

[gaunt phoenix]

it does

1 ilvl is 1% dmg

128k -> 131k is 3%

[kind otter]

That’s a lot of ilvl my guy

[near osprey]

i guess yall right cuz i do way more damage now then i was like 282

[gray summit]

ok so we need to aim 939 haste

[gaunt phoenix]

doesnt need to be exactly that

[meager sphinx]

guys should i swap out my gaze champion to solarflare 285 combined with guidon? i guess i have to sim it right?

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

sim sim

[meager sphinx]

ty ! ^^

even when its 600dps increase?

[gaunt phoenix]

wdym

[meager sphinx]

maybe im wrong with it i simmed it today solar vs my gaze 263 and it was like 660 dps increase on 5 target 1 minute

[gaunt phoenix]

seems normal

[normal hawk]

Whatever one’s doing more damage use that one

[meager sphinx]

alright appreciate it guys ❤️

oh shit with flask and prepot 11k more

so its 1k difference

nice

[strange kelp]

Do you usually run haste flask or are you able to get enough haste just from gear to hit 25%?

I've gotten most of what I can get from gear (still need to upgrade to max myth) but I think I'm still like 22%

[near osprey]

whats the dps gain on saving bte for ar?

[fresh acorn]

a man of free will some would say

[jovial dock]

are we using Blade rush on cd or do we sometimes try to hold for before BTE ?

[frail veldt]

A masochist of sorts

[glass mortar]

basically on cd ye ur not holding it for anything except if aoe is about to happen very shortly

[glass mortar]

think it was in the 0.5-1% area

it might be in the FaQ tho

check the advanced section

[frail veldt]

Yeah I think it was higher when we didn't know about the sc bug with our apex

That makes bte waste two sc

[glass mortar]

can make, not guarenteed right

but ye stinky bug

[rancid silo]

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[frail veldt]

Yeah I think it brought the value down to like 0.3

Once the bug was put in the sim

[stable lantern]

is there a way to fix rtb buff dissapearing from cdm? doesn't happen in m+ but it happens on raid pretty often

[glass mortar]

nope

[stable lantern]

nice chungus game

[glass mortar]

also

it does happen in m+

just less often

so be careful

if u think it doesnt it means its happened and u just didnt catch it

very cool bug

its crazy how often it happens in raid tho

[stable lantern]

im assuming it happens often in raid because you have more buffs there and cdm has problems tracking it then?

[glass mortar]

ye if what zac said about it proccing off gaining/losing buffs is true

which sounds like it could def be the reason

u have way more buffs popping up and falling off in raid

[stable lantern]

yea

annoying

i wonder if using duration bars instead of icons fixes it

probably not

[glass mortar]

zac made a WA that can warn u the bug is procced

but it still cant fix it or show u ur buff

[stable lantern]

damn 😔

[glass mortar]

just let u know that ur buff is currently vanished and u need to look at ur buff bar to see it

[stable lantern]

it just makes me panicked seeing a 56 second jackpot vanish 😄

[glass mortar]

mhhhm

on vor the last time i raided i had a single kir'd 3 buff dissapear and reapear 3 times over its duration

[stable lantern]

HAHA

[timid idol]

both new items from sporefall are giga bis right?

head is turbo and waist is pretty good stats

[glass mortar]

i mean if ur 290 ilvl rn u probably have all the haste u need and most of the crit

meaning vers and mastery arent really bad anymore

so idk about giga bis

but they have good stats sure

[timid idol]

i doubt the ring is good on outlaw no?

just the poisons is not good enough to proc it

[glass mortar]

oh a pure vers/mast item i doubt

oh idk if u mean effect i havent checked it

[glass mortar]

assuming its rppm then poisons would be more then enough to proc it

poisons hit fast as fuk

because we auto super fast

doesnt matter how hard they hit

[timid idol]

and this is trinket which i heavily doubt will replace gaze or box/solarflare/beloren feather for anyone

weird ass raid

at least the items can be catalysted

but its super weird how especially the trinket is kinda lame

[timid idol]

[vivid vessel]

ye i mean its just a random stat trinket

[glass mortar]

i mean the stats on the ring r kinda dog

like i said u probably dont need ahste anymore

[timid idol]

the best trinket of the tier is from the first raidboss

💀

[glass mortar]

but if the effect is good u can gear around it

[frail veldt]

Think mastery overtakes crit?

[glass mortar]

both should

they are similar value

mastery maybe a bit ahead in aoe

[frail veldt]

Wild

[glass mortar]

but its moreso crit is just like as good as vers and mast once u get a bit of either of them crit will get a bit better again and yada yada

[timid idol]

has anyone seen any footage or played ptr of this raid

how hard is it

surely they wouldn't make a 1 boss raid that's dropped this late into the patch too difficult

especially since the patch technically ended with luura

[vivid vessel]

nah

its gonna be piss difficulty

i think kinda like chaemerus but easier kind of vibe

[summer nimbus]

They said they wanted to bridge gap between heroic and mythic i think

So yea prob easier than chim even

[vivid vessel]

ye

[summer nimbus]

Esp with the massive weekly %dmg increases u get in raid

[thorny zinc]

also they r testing flex raids so prob another reason to make it easier

[vivid vessel]

makes me wonder if there is ever a world where they are able to tune flex raid

so that every guild kinda just raid with the number of people they have

from 15 to 20+

[thorny zinc]

I just wonder how they would make it not always better for the lower amount

[vivid vessel]

but idk i would assume its always gonna be better with 15 guys cause its easier to have 15 good playuers than 25

[glass mortar]

ye

[frail veldt]

Bro easier???

[glass mortar]

main issue is u always need to scale number of mechanics raid receives for shit like soaks and whatnot with raid size

[frail veldt]

Chim is already free

[stone cradle]

I think they eventually do like flex raid opens after hof closes or something

[glass mortar]

but ur noi very likely to be adding many players to ur roster equal in skill to ur best mechanic doers

going from 15-25

[vivid vessel]

Yes

[thorny zinc]

only thing I can think of to even it would be make the 15 man raids have an extra mechanic or something but there is no way thats viable

[vivid vessel]

Like liquid one pull this boss

For sure

[frail veldt]

Yeah tru

[vivid vessel]

And then top 50 guild one pull it

That's the vibe I get

[glass mortar]

experimental end of season 1 boss raid with flex difficulty def reads like this will be mega easy to me

[thorny zinc]

max said in a vid that he think its gna be harder than first easier then vorasius I think

[frail veldt]

That's pretty damn easy

[glass mortar]

who knows though maybe they throw an uwunat at us

its been awhile

[thorny zinc]

2 races in one season

[stone cradle]

It has like no mechanics

[glass mortar]

make it a super tight dps check where everyone needs to do 120k ST or u enrage

welcome back patchwerk

[summer nimbus]

Race to log in

[hollow bloom]

Flex raids are so messy man. Just tune it to 10 peeps and then let people bring more if they need to.

[frail veldt]

That's a flex raid

Isn't it?

[hollow bloom]

You don’t change health pools or stats on the raid boss.

[frail veldt]

Or you're saying just leave all things static like HP and mechanics and just let people bring 25 players and completely trivialize the entire encounter?

[hollow bloom]

Ya ya

[frail veldt]

That's kinda dumb no?

Might as well make it a world boss

[hollow bloom]

You get the same amount of loot so i mean, a casual guild can just bring more people and say they killed the raid boss.

Its not like mythic gear is hard to get anymore too so i mean rewards/loot is whatever now.

[frail veldt]

Yeah the entire purpose of the boss is for the challenge

If you aren't gonna make it flex or static raid size then it's just a world boss

I'm down for them to try making flex mythic work

Cuz locked mythic size sucks ass

Having to keep people on bench

Or not being able to raid cuz you're down a person

Is so aids

[hollow bloom]

Ya the roster boss is always the issue right

[frail veldt]

Dumbest shit ever

[craggy barn]

i mean, locked raid size helps with performance issues

[frail veldt]

Eh

[craggy barn]

heroic raiding 30 man is fucking annoying

[frail veldt]

Sure I'm not saying 30

But if mythic

[craggy barn]

25 is also still annoying

[frail veldt]

Was flex like 18-22

Would be sick

[hollow bloom]

Just depends what philosophy they want to do anyway. Make a challenging raid or make a fun raid that many people can experience.

[craggy barn]

u can do both

fun doesnt mean easy

[hollow bloom]

Well thats what i mean, fun means easy to people too so. Its where they want to set the bar at.

[frail veldt]

That's what weekly aura buffs are for

Mythic raid participation is so low

It's like worse than pvp

Prob better this season now that they split up the lock out

So hope they do more to make it less restrictive

[radiant wyvern]

the split lockouts is definitely way better

[pastel oxide]

i was watching casualaddict and he had this sprint timer here on his screen, anyone know what it is?

[rancid silo]

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[vapid sundial]

probably...

his sprint ability..?

[pastel oxide]

in the center, with the message lmao

[vapid sundial]

yes

im pretty sure thats literally his sprint

[pastel oxide]

he has something to put text there

[vapid sundial]

Oh, you want to know whats doing it

no idea

[civic void]

either a weakaura or some variation of that https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/shimmertracker (for sprint obviously)

[random stirrup]

It’s wa magic but not as simple as making a nice and easy trigger

[quaint mauve]

naowhqol

[pastel sierra]

I wish they made voidspire also a split, just first 3 and last 3

Feels like dragons is the first boss where things actually get rough on responsibilities for mechanics, the ones before you can just kinda get through

[pastel oxide]

i dont see the option in it

[quaint mauve]

it’s def there

idk where bc im not at computer

i have it tho

[spare vessel]

I think I’m doing something wrong with this spec. I got my spec (sub) to 290ilvl and wanted to try out some outlaw. 288 ilvl, 1000 crit, 700 haste, 300 mastery, 200 vers. I just did a +15aa and did 108k overall. I was keeping blade flurry of cd in aoe. It felt horrible. I’m definitely missing something. It can’t be the comp not have a monk.

I might have log some stuff tomorrow

[pure folio]

cant really help without a log

Did you read #outlaw-faq @spare vessel

[keen belfry]

solo

i got crown trinket

should i try i tout

[frail veldt]

Nah delete it

Don't try it

[keen belfry]

solo!!!

[dim parrot]

Is it on myth Awang

How does it sim for dslice

I wonder if it would slappy for bosses

[keen belfry]

yes

.7% increase over aguidopn

[frail veldt]

anyone else have a bug where the auto log out doesnt work?

my character literally has been logged in since last night

like 24 hours

[modern shoal]

Anyone mind taking a look at one of my logs

Im ass and unforrtunatly dont know the class well enough to know why Im ass

[fair iron]

do people have viserio/northern tools alerts for m+

[dim parrot]

Have u read the faq

[fair iron]

haven’t really looked into it, but adding the alert customization and visuals for dungeon bosses seems like a thing to do

[dim parrot]

And practice on dummies

[modern shoal]

I have read everything, watched videos and dummies

[fair iron]

i currently only use big/littlewiggs

[bronze robin]

Anyone know why surv hunters are using the burning crusade whetstones and we aren't? lol

[snow hill]

Been wondering this myself

[craggy barn]

which stone are they using

[dim parrot]

Why you wondering why we use phoenix oil

When were crit haste?

[normal hawk]

Adamantine sharpening stone probs

[dim parrot]

I haven’t wondered this

[craggy barn]

i mean the answer is sims say so

like always

the only chance i could see us using something different is if we are at our theoretical haste and crit caps where things like vers and raw atk power become more valuable

[random stirrup]

its good for sub

i dont think its possible to sim

you have to do the calculations by hand iirc

[keen belfry]

ty fizz

@outer meteor

ty

[gaunt phoenix]

I have 24% raw haste and would flask for vanguard/dragons

You can still flask for keys lately some ppl just like excess haste

[frail veldt]

@keen belfry is there any way to not do shit damage on last boss WR

[gaunt phoenix]

Pray

[frail veldt]

it just has so many fucking stand out mechanics

[unkempt iris]

Cloak is an offensive cd

[frail veldt]

cloak doesnt do shit there

[unkempt iris]

In final boss of windrunner?

You can cloak the ring big dog

[frail veldt]

brother

one of 10

theres big ring

rain of arrows

and circles you have to clear

[dim parrot]

Use grappling hook

[frail veldt]

its every 10 seconds

you have a mechanic

[dim parrot]

And greed with big circle

[frail veldt]

its so aids

[unkempt iris]

Position better idk

Grapple back when u knock up

[frail veldt]

theres just one position lol

yes I always grapple back down

but like

if there are pools to clear

and tank isnt holding boss near me

there isnt any "position better"

[dim parrot]

If grp is good can stack on tank for rain if arrows and go clockwise

I think seems to help for uptime

[frail veldt]

yeah my groups def not doing that unfort

maybe when I push more itll feel better im just pugging up my crests rn

[unkempt iris]

I mean yeah if you’re not pushing dont expect good tanks

[dim parrot]

I stay in boss if I have big circle to clear ground stuff

[unkempt iris]

And when youre pushing, still dont expect good tanks

[dim parrot]

Just leave some stuff on floor no big deal

[unkempt iris]

^

[frail veldt]

kk ill just ignore tbh

does clear circle actually do something to allies

[unkempt iris]

Only do it if you need to

[dim parrot]

Tank can get hit by your circle and it’s fine

[frail veldt]

like if tank is in it

kk

thats what I wasnt sure

if it was like a dumb one that stuns

[unkempt iris]

Also since u can feint often, dont knock up unless you HAVE to

[frail veldt]

or something

I knock up to clear bleed

[dim parrot]

Always clear I think

[frail veldt]

yeah

p sure always

im floor pov if I dont clear bleed

[dim parrot]

Just after rain

[frail veldt]

yeah exactly

[unkempt iris]

I dont clear for awhile because u can feint until the ring, cloak the ring and it clears for you

[frail veldt]

but why

[dim parrot]

Feint is worse than clearing cuz energy

[frail veldt]

why not just pop up and clear bleed for free

yeah feint is so expensive

[unkempt iris]

Because u can sit on the boss for more uptime

[frail veldt]

it doesnt cost uptime

[dim parrot]

Miss 1 global kinda

[frail veldt]

to pop up right next to boss

hardly even miss 1 gcd

its worth it for the energy

of not feinting

1000%

[unkempt iris]

I never have energy issues so idk

[frail veldt]

mr magic feint on cd no energy issues

not playing the same game as me ngl

[unkempt iris]

I didn’t say i do it on cd

Also u said ur not pushing yet and ive done it on a 19 man so im just tryna give advice

[frail veldt]

yeah imma keep clearing bleed lol

[dim parrot]

On 19 should def clear dot

[frail veldt]

thats insane

your poor fucking healer

[unkempt iris]

My healer would tell me if it was an issue

Which will probably be an issue next key level or 3

[dim parrot]

It’s just unnecessary

[unkempt iris]

2*

[summer nimbus]

on that fight i just greed taking close arrows to clear debuff and i just stay on boss with big circle lol

big circle does like 0 dmg even if u stack like 4 of them i think

[keen belfry]

cloak every other line set

and greed uptime

[trim harbor]

how grim is 900 haste on outlaw its either 24%haste 36%crit or 27%haste 32%crit

[craggy barn]

finally

[cerulean portal]

gz

[outer meteor]

did u win

because i lost a bunch on my resil key

[keen belfry]

no but fizz

i did 120k st to first boss

no pot

no lust

[outer meteor]

[keen belfry]

maybe the trinket good?

[outer meteor]

jackpot whole fight or what

[keen belfry]

"only" like half

had 2 buff for a lil

[outer meteor]

thats crazy

maybe trickster doesnt oversim after all

[keen belfry]

idk why i did so much dmg

did just crit every single thing

[jolly geyser]

Game wanted you to do more dmg

[flat stratus]

What sim rules should I put for M+ as outlaw

does 5 target for 1 min always just give jackpot with KIR?

oh @craggy barn

you just played with my brother for that resil

he was the ele sham

[gaunt phoenix]

Dslice is fine, though you can consider it undervaluing haste a little bit, as it is 6 minutes and starts with full thistle tea

[flat stratus]

What are you simming at damage wise with that

I'm severly underperforming, I dont understand how people are doing 600k on the first lust pulls

[pure folio]

u should not be doing that

LOL

[gaunt phoenix]

The slice number is not important it's just for gear comparison

[pure folio]

droute/patchwork for damage, dslice for gear

[gaunt phoenix]

And 5 target 1 minute does not assume jackpot

It's an average of like 100,000 pulls

Each pull has normal rng

[pure folio]

log a run

[gaunt phoenix]

So of course some pulls are way ahead or way below the average

[summer nimbus]

honestly i feel like there is a decent amount of rng in first lust pulls