At its peak our apex will be almost as fun as crackshot lol
#outlaw
frail veldt
inland acorn
ape sex 
frail veldt
I still miss ER
keen belfry
At its peak our apex will be almost as fun as crackshot lol
with current ace proc chance if we get mroe ways to store bullets or ways to have them double stack or something (basically just give me more apex stacks) it will be banger
and will help with energy
frail veldt
Yeaah I don't like how little control we have over our rotation rn
It's even worse than before and it was never good
keen belfry
like imagine BTE stores bullets, u go into AR with 6-10 stacks, u can BTE BTE back up to 6 stacks and start anotehr chain
jolly geyser
I still miss ER
aye,was good hospital show
frail veldt
like imagine BTE stores bullets, u go into AR with 6-10 stacks, u can BTE BTE ba...
It would be good if they could find a way to make it so it's something we can play around
But not sure we will get there tbh
Prob just play the same as now which is don't bte if adr cd is coming up
keen belfry
i dont mind it
frail veldt
Yeah it's fine it's just not the most exciting
keen belfry
i do think i want a lil more depth in the spec tho i agree
frail veldt
Ace is more exciting than our apex talent lol
keen belfry
but fatebound was good enough for some depth
1cps rule was enough to keep me engaged
tricksters a bit rough lol
keen belfry
its very nice to go SS finisher SS finsiher ps finisher
keen belfry
tea is quite ass
frail veldt
It's exactly what we all said would happen
They balance around tea
Which is fine in raid fights
keen belfry
it would be infinitely better if it was literally just passive energy increase gain, we got told it was tho! (its not)
frail veldt
Then in m+ the spec goes to absolute shit when tea is out and you lowroll
cinder relic
Give tea an out of combat refund
frail veldt
That could help but then you end up with begging your tank not to chain
Which is problematic
keen belfry
i think it needs 0 charges
frail veldt
Or that
keen belfry
and should be vigor 2.0
lower your energy gets the higher your regen gets
or it reduces the cost of ss 🙂
keen belfry
it could be a talent that cuts the cost of ss by half and removes 30 energy cost from BF
anti deft maneuvers
frail veldt
Do the other specs take tea
cinder relic
That could help but then you end up with begging your tank not to chain
After a boss you'd get a stack and that would go a long way
frail veldt
After a boss you'd get a stack and that would go a long way
Yeah I just think there's better fixes
cinder relic
Do the other specs take tea
Sin does
keen belfry
yuh!
vivid vessel
idk anyone that was against that
jolly geyser
frail veldt
Yeah this idea of "energy gameplay" was just bs
cinder relic
Sl also had energy issues fwiw
frail veldt
There's no gameplay around it other than not proccing tea at the end of a pack
frail veldt
Sl was more consistent imo
frail veldt
This one is insanely feast or famine
vivid vessel
cause you had so much energy
like there is such a massive difference
between then and now
frail veldt
I wonder if they just full rework rogue
vivid vessel
s2 aswell
kyrian dust did this
then bb did it aswell
i dont remmeber what s1 was honestly
but ye idk
cinder relic
No it was only the s3 build with wm and the tier set after it was buffed
vivid vessel
im about tired with energy
vivid vessel
No it was only the s3 build with wm and the tier set after it was buffed
kyrian dust did it with gs
you would not press ps procs
keen belfry
im quite tired of energy and current rtb
vivid vessel
i rmemeber doing it on sylvanas before dust
keen belfry
its bad in game
frail veldt
i still cant believe i defended this new rtb
Loooooool
vivid vessel
it was kyrian without double leggo aswell doing that
keen belfry
i think its legit just the power shift
keen belfry
i have hit 1mil on a 10 target pull, i have hit 400k on a 12 target pull
vivid vessel
i cant believe the outlaw rework is so bad its the first time i want rtb gone, and energy gone
they really won
cinder relic
Just need a more consistent way to get into 3
vivid vessel
you say that but from 3 to 4 is the same as 2 to 3 in st
frail veldt
Is it?
keen belfry
i geuinely think this spec gets 100x if u get more palmed bullets and an easier way to 3+ buff, and just a small tweak on what tea/fatal flourish is
cinder relic
3 is just vibes
frail veldt
In aoe 2 to 3 has got to be the biggest
cinder relic
4 is just passive damage
frail veldt
3 plays so much better yeah
keen belfry
idk if u guys ever watch ur energy but i look at it when pack dying and my next builder/finisher would proc tea, the rng of fatal flourish is wild
cinder relic
Specs always have some variance it's fine. Having low 3 uptime just feels bad
frail veldt
More bf cps
keen belfry
our variance is higher in keys just due to the nature of certain pulls dictating alot of your dmg
frail veldt
Our AOE variance is like double our st
keen belfry
zac jackpotted bte 6 reset first AA your overall is going to be 20k higher
frail veldt
And in short pulls it's comically high
keen belfry
Our AOE variance is like double our st
and i think its even more in keys just due what pulls mean for your overall dmg
i have never felt my dmg this out of my control on any spec ive ever played in keys
in any xpac
paper grove
We BF on 2 targets right?
keen belfry
We BF on 2 targets right?
its hard to but yes
keen belfry
sometimes u dont
crackshot felt like a good rng helper cuz even if bad reset rng, u can play good in that 6 second window and get mor btes than bad player
cinder relic
i have never felt my dmg this out of my control on any spec ive ever played in k...
I'm wondering how much of this is like, already feeling shitty about the spec and noticing the swings more
I didn't really play the spec much in tww but in raid it feels supa swingy
paper grove
BTE resets so feel bad when you have to throw a spender in between them
outer meteor
idk i did a 21 back to back
same route same everything
and i did 30k higher overall
in one of them
xdd
keen belfry
for sure some of that, but idk if i go do a seat of triumverate i can leave the first boss area +100k dps
vivid vessel
I didn't really play the spec much in tww but in raid it feels supa swingy
Ye but In keys if you high roll certain important packs that count for overall
It's even more swingy than just a raid boss
radiant wyvern
I'm wondering how much of this is like, already feeling shitty about the spec an...
the whole spec slows way down on top of less dmg with bad rng, so its not really like your incidentally noticing it
keen belfry
for sure some of that, but idk if i go do a seat of triumverate i can leave the ...
and this wide of a swing doesnt get offset later on in the key
cinder relic
Ya probs. I wonder how swing other higher variance specs actually are
keen belfry
unless u play bad
and also shit like crawth
u can do 100k u can do 120k
but thats expected with a10s dmg amp window as outlaw
rocky stratus
I messed up my m+ fatebound build, someone have the talent loadout handy?
keen belfry
cinder relic
Ye but In keys if you high roll certain important packs that count for overall
I guess my question is how much this ends up affecting other specs
cinder relic
I know sub can, or did swing crazy hard some szns pull to pull
vivid vessel
Feels like
cinder relic
Idrk what arms fury variance is tbqh
keen belfry
if this is normal across all specs sure its fine then, its just not what outlaw was prio to midnight
cinder relic
I legit don't pay attention to shit in keys. I just do my rotation and hang out
vivid vessel
But like specs are so simple I guess blizzard have to add variance
Otherwise everyone would do the same damage :D
cinder relic
Idt midnight has anything to do with overall variance
gusty pagoda
It's crazy how even with all these issues, outlaw is still the most enjoyable spec in the game probably. Recently picked it up as an alt and it's way more involved than 99% of specs. Just goes to show how hard Blizzard dropped the ball on midnight pruning
vivid vessel
Idt midnight has anything to do with overall variance
our push on lura felt very swingy
keen belfry
It's crazy how even with all these issues, outlaw is still the most enjoyable sp...
outlaw is still outlaw, its just less now but ye its unique
vivid vessel
i dont think i noticed this in other expacs idk, where you have to meet a dps check but then you sometimes get it easely and someimes you dont
cinder relic
I remember playing sub in amirdrasil and saying "man this game feels so high variance rn" and I got told I was just washed up. Which may also be true but idk if it feels any different across the board
But more and more ppl seem to say similar things each expac atp
devout garden
Some specs have high variance for no reason
keen belfry
its just hard to know, like this feels like first xpac where i can beat someone better than me and lose to someone worse than me in a key
devout garden
Like stormbringer enh
gusty pagoda
outlaw is still outlaw, its just less now but ye its unique
I don't get why they would ever take away underhanded upper hand, crackshot and vanish cdr tho
devout garden
Its so swingy it makes spec play like shit
keen belfry
its just hard to know, like this feels like first xpac where i can beat someone ...
as outlaw*
cinder relic
I don't get why they would ever take away underhanded upper hand, crackshot and ...
A lot of ppl did not like vanish being a core part of the spec
It also was very punishing to downtime, misplays, rp based mechanics
gusty pagoda
But why not give current vanish the cdr so you can cheese more mechanics
They took away both crackshot and the vanish cdr which seems redundant
keen belfry
i just xd imagine if BTE was longer CD and started a crackshot window instead of vanish
would they like it then
and weve talked about this 10000 times in this discord but going into a new 2026 xpac and every class is back to pre 2016 is so funny and stupid to me
tight kernel
its just hard to know, like this feels like first xpac where i can beat someone ...
Yes. I feel this
cinder relic
i just xd imagine if BTE was longer CD and started a crackshot window instead of...
Even if the specs are very different in practice I think this just ends up being a shadow dance spec yk
keen belfry
and if thats what u dont like about it thats valid
limpid isle
i just xd imagine if BTE was longer CD and started a crackshot window instead of...
crackshot cool and all. but personally I want UHUH back frfr.
keen belfry
i just never understood wahhh ihate pressing vanish
i udnerstood hating having to stealh and shit like that
errant comet
Hey there, quick question:
The current 4-set bonus is supposed to give you a 5% dmg buff if you press blade rush. But i noticed i get that buff by pressing blade flurry (needs to damage enemys to get the buff).
Is it supposed to work like that and do we need to optimize it?
keen belfry
but man u just pressed vanish and stared shooting a gun on cd it wasnt like we were playing stealth rogue
keen belfry
Hey there, quick question:
The current 4-set bonus is supposed to give you a 5% ...
known bug but basically it just means u press BF on cd in aoe (you already did this)
errant comet
known bug but basically it just means u press BF on cd in aoe (you already did t...
Alrighty, thanks!
keen belfry
i want a season of this outlaw with high energy and better cps gen and more fun rtb
like current fatebound with better rtb and perma tricks and more energy might just be fun
before i say this rework is complete shit ass i need a season of energy and rtb good
mild vigil
tbh I just wish one of a kind effect just didn't exist, like it feels so bad whenever you have to roll w/o loaded and get that
just bake the extra proc chance into the kit
gusty pagoda
As someone who just picked outlaw up again, the thing that immediately bothered me is having to SS when I have 5CP after ace proc
paper grove
What if, and consider this, two guns
keen belfry
yeah just make ace refund 5 instead of 4 too
cerulean portal
GUYS GUYS
gusty pagoda
Or make it give full CP 
mild vigil
sorry but if they did that they'd need to make another BF nerf
cerulean portal
u know the streamer girl
unfortunate right
her hands dont hurt playing outlaw
BCZ SHE IS ITALIAN
keen belfry
Or make it give full CP <:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
either works, refunding 5 will always give 6 back cuz ruthelesness sometiems 7 but yes
cerulean portal
the hand thing
keen belfry
wait im italian too is taht why my hands dont hurt
gusty pagoda
My hands don't hurt either but I'm not Italian
paper grove
As someone who just picked outlaw up again, the thing that immediately bothered ...
My biggest gripe with outlaw atm, breaks the flow of everything
cerulean portal
wait im italian too is taht why my hands dont hurt
yes beatch
gusty pagoda
I was born in the city with the highest Italian population in my country tho
keen belfry
but yes give us more energy and cps and rtb and let me try outlaw the way it should be
paper grove
So whats the reasoning we spend at 6 rather than 5? Just more effective?
jolly geyser
wait im italian too is taht why my hands dont hurt
keen belfry
So whats the reasoning we spend at 6 rather than 5? Just more effective?
it sims higher
if u rlly want the answer this is how its always been
paper grove
Praise be to the raidbot
keen belfry
fatebound was just different
cuz coins
before you would build to 6+ naturally so like thinking about building at 5 wasnt really a thing
but they nerfed fth ps for fun
jolly geyser
I really dislike suddenly being out of energy sometimes,feels like I would have sharted in public
paper grove
Last time I played Outlaw prior to this was back in BFA
gusty pagoda
Am I the only one who thinks rogue has the worst hero talents class fantasy wise? Only deathstalker is cool imo. Trickster and fateblound could have been the same outlaw flavored hero talent
keen belfry
we have the worst trees in the game roberto
gusty pagoda
Then add some shadow ninja shit as sub themed
keen belfry
just in general
gusty pagoda
Rework when
paper grove
Should've doubled down on the pirate theme. Make a Captain hero tree where you proc like an cannon barrage
paper grove
Legion it was i think
gusty pagoda
Ye could be legion
paper grove
Did fuck all damage then if I recall sadly
keen belfry
like just imagine KS is fartcloud but drops cannons around your character for 3 seconds or whatever
radiant wyvern
ks could be banger button too
if it did damage and wasnt a channel it would be a good button, so basically if it was a completely different button it would be a good button
paper grove
Signal flare, calls in a cannon barrage at your location for X duration
keen belfry
thats kinda outlaw rn, i think its really bad spot rn but really close to not bad spot lol
just like KS
shell fossil
i don't mind killing spree but they should revert the damage model
so it just hits and cleaves off the thing you send it at
gusty pagoda
I actually liked old killing spree it felt cool to press and was a fun way to die due to unforeseen circumstances
craggy barn
does any other class have such a random targeting thing that also doesnt always hit ur current target
paper grove
I enjoy Outlaw a lot thematically, its cool pulling out a pistol but it definitely needs some love
radiant wyvern
like pala's shake the heavens
shell fossil
also 23% haste + heart of wind / crit flask feels pretty nice
paper grove
Your ace windows need to just refund a full amount, blade rush seems like an odd ability to be so important
shell fossil
gapped on an alt in a 15 and gave me a compliment 
cinder relic
does any other class have such a random targeting thing that also doesnt always ...
P sure templar hammers get thrown into random targets
cuz my paladin friend would alawyas complain about mugzee for that reason
"Why are my divine hammers going into the mugzee bombs"
A new hero has spawned in
gaunt phoenix
gusty pagoda
Ww is pretty fun as well but I personally dislike the downtimd
vivid vessel
A new hero has spawned in
almost as geared as your rogue
cinder relic
lITERALLY
paper grove
Ret is fun cause its always on, no downtime, just full send 24/7
vivid vessel
HAHA
cinder relic
I realized what fucks rouges so hard for gearing btw
Its being dual weild + crafting
worn patrol
yo does anyone know what I can use evasion on in M+ or is there any site that can tell me? Cause right now I am only using it effectively on krick
gusty pagoda
Arms actually has an insane amount of buttons
gaunt phoenix
hero wrists?
gusty pagoda
I lack keybinds for it
keen belfry
what do being careful with crests early on mean
vivid vessel
hero wrists?
waiting for reclear
i would rather upgrade the wrists from raid
than craft wrists
gaunt phoenix
i see
random stirrup
dont u have crests to do both
paper grove
+3 stam 
vivid vessel
i was wondering last time if engineer pieces would be cool
vivid vessel
dont u have crests to do both
yes
but
maybe i craft a head
or idk
ye idk honestly
thing is
its not worth it to craft a wrist
keen belfry
just go bonus roll mc helm
vivid vessel
without a gem
so like
if i craft now its legit just for fun
cosmetic
i have a socket from vault
but i would rather put it on the wrists from raid
jolly geyser
catalyzed wrists are aight
jolly geyser
crit haste
vivid vessel
its big haste
jolly geyser
ye
vivid vessel
i want the big crit from raid
im planning on getting lura head
i need high crit pieces
paper grove
I need to fix my gems, I don't feel like the non prim stat gem is worth it
jolly geyser
vora ring etc and shite
gaunt phoenix
wtf..
keen belfry
i want more haste
vivid vessel
and you cant do shit
keen belfry
u think my guild kills lura 3 times?
vapid sundial
zac
Did u change servers again
or do u still raid on that realm
or guilds w/e
i know you swapped like 3 times
cinder relic
U also killed bosses this raid other than Dragons and lura
random stirrup
my dk is about to eat crazy style
vivid vessel
U also killed bosses this raid other than Dragons and lura <:garf_sit:1334889429...
ye but tbf we started extending after belo
and i just did reclears with pugs
jolly geyser
surely I will lvl my ret this reset
cinder relic
ye but tbf we started extending after belo
So did we
random stirrup
6 vault at 282 with lura loot in but no paladins or alleria slop filling it 
paper grove
Haste soft cap is around 24 for Outlaw? After that just aim for crit?
keen belfry
yuh that works
olive talon
6 vault at 282 with lura loot in but no paladins or alleria slop filling it <:Ci...
I mean I want that alleria trinket
random stirrup
my dk dont tho
my rogue not gonna get lura in vault this tier i dont think
poor guy
keen belfry
binguscrappy
random stirrup
bingusdeady
cinder relic
my rogue not gonna get lura in vault this tier i dont think
bro they started sitting me on lura sales
Thankfully my alt is a warrior, so I'm unsittable
Mount still up for grabs
cinder relic
#notaraidbuff
cinder relic
I still get the gold either way idrc
jolly geyser
damn,how much is a lura sale?
vivid vessel
outlaw in 15s kinda goes crazy wtf
jolly geyser
What dungeons do you guys think are in s2?
keen belfry
brackenhide
paper grove
Plaguefall
jolly geyser
im leaning to some troll stuff
keen belfry
kings rest eh?
jolly geyser
ye
left briar
I'm doing 10k dps at 275 ilvl. amidoing it right
paper grove
Im not excited for Murder Row to be in rotation
jolly geyser
oh ye,murder.forgot
radiant wyvern
Im not excited for Murder Row to be in rotation
murder row, den of nalorakk, season is going to be piss
paper grove
Yeah those are gonna need some sort of tuning prior to keystones
Bricking a key cause your group cant do the restaurant mini game right
buoyant stratus
Gg we rolled too many steaks
paper grove
Cata Deadmines M+
jolly geyser
Can we get CoS in again
you get arcway instead
fluid meadow
other side
paper grove
Id like to see bwonsamdi again
jolly geyser
forgot what da other side had, hakkar and uuh
paper grove
The one where you get a bomb and have to go in the air
unkempt cypress
Or a season with every dung as m+ and boe keystones
paper grove
And millhouse/his wife
sly oasis
How does tricks work with the "so tricky" talent ?
jolly geyser
Or a season with every dung as m+ and boe keystones
that would be fucking nuts
sly oasis
Someone argues it lasts 6 seconds during the combat, but the talent says it lasts 1 hour
left briar
So I came back to WoW after skipping the last expac and wanted to get back to playing rogue. So I followed the wowhead guide, did i make a mistake or what
paper grove
Someone argues it lasts 6 seconds during the combat, but the talent says it last...
Normally its press button and then the next 6 seconds of you in combat all your threat goes to whoever you tricked
But with that, its active all the time
gaunt phoenix
Someone argues it lasts 6 seconds during the combat
they are wrong
a crime on the internet i fear...
sly oasis
Normally its press button and then the next 6 seconds of you in combat all your...
Thanks, can you explain how did i die to a melee during a fight then? I had tricks active and after 10s of combat I died, i have the talent. Does the tank need to do at least 1 damage to the mob for the redirect to work ?
gaunt phoenix
if the tank has "body pulled" the mob and has not hit it
then yes, you can still get slapped
with tricks active
sly oasis
as i thought, thanks
vivid vessel
with tricks active
not if its actually active
keen belfry
but its diff with being at ranged right? like u have to be in melee range for him to initially slap you? i dont udnerstand how tricks actually works
vivid vessel
cause tank is on the threat table
they wotn have ytou targeted
before you hit them
and you transfer threat iinstantl;y
keen belfry
zac if u go melee from stealth with tricks up, tank in combaty, will they melee u?
tank hasnt pulled the mobs
vivid vessel
no
if tank has initial threat
like
mobs looking at him
like i think a tank can run trough mobs on mount
keen belfry
what if they arent in combat
vivid vessel
and as long as tricks is already active
keen belfry
the mobs
gaunt phoenix
i didnt think that was true
vivid vessel
you wont get meleed
gaunt phoenix
if tank runs through mobs with mount but you are the first hit
you can still get merked
keen belfry
idk solo cuz u can pujll for your tank
vivid vessel
then they will melee you before you redirect
keen belfry
that are afk
and i think u have to be in melee range? i think?
vivid vessel
ye
buoyant stratus
Shrimply pull with evasion up, its a 30 second cd anyway!
Wait a second...
olive talon
like i think a tank can run trough mobs on mount
I thought if they're on mount tricks doesn't work?
vivid vessel
well you cant press tricks on a mounted guy
but if tricks is already active
its fine
olive talon
Oh, interesting. Yeah I was thinking notoriously AA some tanks start the pull mounted+bodypulling and get me killed by doing it
sly oasis
and as long as tricks is already active
so essentially, i need to press tricks once in the dung and thats it when I am playing the "so tricky" talent? Or do i need to press it before every time we go into combat?
sly oasis
thanks mate
rancid silo
Fastest way to get Voishards?
harsh forge
you only need to reup if you die, i re up if tank dies just out of paranoia
gaunt phoenix
Fastest way to get Voishards?
prob just delves
zenith egret
MH > Trinket > OH for voidcore upgrade ?
gaunt phoenix
yea
zenith egret
Ty solo !
formal knot
wtf i went mh oh trinket trinket because my sim told me to
guess it wont matter because its free to farm them
olive talon
you only need to reup if you die, i re up if tank dies just out of paranoia
Sometimes the beauty of it lasting through tank death is if they release right away you continue to transfer threat, meaning you stay at 0 while the mobs kill the other DPS and run back to the newly released tank off in Narnia (who probably is wondering why he can't remount)
cobalt drift
@vivid vessel how is journey to full BiS admin char?
cerulean portal
my aug just did 0 log in pit 18
dull geyser
i got a wierd quetion. If i have say a 3 buff with like 10 sec remaining and have AR up, but ALSO have a loaded dice, do i send the loaded dice to check if its a good roll, then pop AR and then reroll if 2 buff?
my only real hickup not sure if worth sending 10sec of 3buff in ar or whatever
gaunt phoenix
There's no way to know the answer here. It doesn't happen enough it sims to observe the result one way or the other.
dull geyser
cool just happens after i KIR a good roll usually
harsh forge
Sometimes the beauty of it lasting through tank death is if they release right a...
and then the group chain wipes 3 times
dull geyser
and am presing my buttons right
keen belfry
if its like 12seconds or above i keep it and if its like 8 or below i reroll it
anbything in between my choice is made on spot and completely dependent on other things
keen belfry
i like rerolling it if i have KIR approaching so i can have 2 rolls for next kir if needed
i swear thts how it works for me solo
im not rerolling 13 seconds of 3+ buff
but i am of 7
ya know?
gaunt phoenix
yep
tight kernel
its a vibe
runic gulch
i got a wierd quetion. If i have say a 3 buff with like 10 sec remaining and hav...
I think sims account for munching loaded dice procs so it will inevitably happen at times but yeah, I’ll decide on the fly based on vibes. If it’s a jackpot, I’m not rerolling it unless it’s at least under 7 secs or so
keen belfry
so many variables
runic gulch
Sometimes if I know an add phase or something is about to come out, it’ll be good excuse to hold ADR for a sec and just let the buff run out, use the loaded dice proc and then ADR
gaunt phoenix
No, the sim has no concept of rolling in the event you are about to munch loaded dice
but, it doesn't influence results to start tinkering with it
runic gulch
No, the sim has no concept of rolling in the event you are about to munch loaded...
Could’ve sworn it was you who told me in prepatch that sims did factor it in
Unless that’s changed
keen belfry
cuz even at my low arbitray number of 7 what if u AR BTE BTE BTE with 3+ buff thats so much value in like 4 seconds no cap and imagine instead u rerolled before that to keep LD and u now have 2 extra cdr on those 4 globals
long winded way, press whatever u want it kinda dont matter
gaunt phoenix
I've never added logic to do that
if you're saying I told you that I tested it and it didnt matter, that probably did happen
runic gulch
Oh it was someone telling me on your behalf lol
keen belfry
that guy likes delves
gaunt phoenix
I misinterpreted what you meant
I thought you were saying, does the sim try to avoid this
tight kernel
is there more value to upgrade trinket after mh before oh?
runic gulch
Yeah I just meant that sims show that you will sometimes organically ADR over an existing loaded dice proc with a triple threat/jackpot rolling and it’s correct play
keen belfry
is there more value to upgrade trinket after mh before oh?
off hand ilvl matters as much as wrists or something
so yes
maybe embelly scales with ilvl? but offhand ilvl dont mean much
brave quiver
!log
runic gulch
is there more value to upgrade trinket after mh before oh?
I found that either upgrading my OH or trinket was both 0.6% gain so didn’t really matter but sim yourself to be sure
vivid vessel
oh no dratnos is talking about rtb on stream
keen belfry
Yeah I just meant that sims show that you will sometimes organically ADR over an...
this is purely to be annoying and i understand your point, but the sim ddoes that because no rule exists for it as its neutral or whatever u wanna call it, not cause its "correct"
tight kernel
link stream
shell fossil
keen belfry
solo could add some rule we are making up rn about when youd munch vs not and the sim would be the same
shell fossil
blast while 3rd dps is afk
tribal cosmos
So ugh
tribal cosmos
What dungeon do we reroll on
gaunt phoenix
Pitty
tribal cosmos
Aight
keen belfry
i saw some guy do the math
u can hit 90 and 287 in the same week now
without myth achieve
these tokens are so good for alts but i think kinda piss for mains
keen belfry
my rogue has spent 8 tokens inside of chimareius and have no ugprades to show for it
while my warrior has gotten like 6 myth pieces just spamming pit
stuck sparrow
my rogue has spent 8 tokens inside of chimareius and have no ugprades to show fo...
i know a guy whos rolled everything but gaze
keen belfry
thats me
random stirrup
u can hit 90 and 287 in the same week now
my math said 285 barely as a 2H class
reef forge
same
random stirrup
maybe im cooked
its hard to spend that many bonus rolls and get unique slots anyway
unless you're just sending them all in seat and enjoying the garbage that comes with it
keen belfry
well its bis for fresh slots cause u just go to something like seat or like nexus point
keen belfry
if ihave to spend 10 tokens on chimaerius imma be mad
it better be in my vault or drop off boss
10!
keen belfry
first week bug
random stirrup
xd
random stirrup
that is tough
random stirrup
my dk has 3 ilvls on my rogue
shell fossil
pull npx mace > free 285 > ascend next week hopefully 
keen belfry
ur dk raids and isnt 2 weeks old tho
random stirrup
true..
i also am down like 160 myth crests on rogue
havent logged into it since last tuesday
random stirrup
ur dk raids and isnt 2 weeks old tho
ok but also its 4 weeks old and the only pieces it got from raid were from pugs
and lura pants but those dont count
rogue is just down bad
keen belfry
so next week i get gaze from vault, craft ring?, spend 2 rolls in MC and get shoulders and helm then im like 289
random stirrup
dual wield L
mighty pivot
someone donate some haste to awang
keen belfry
my flask fixes me
cerulean portal
19 haste
frail veldt
Yeah I'm still flask gang
vagrant saddle
not a single haste crit 1h in m+ is soo criminal
tough salmon
I got flamed in the comments of a kira video. I feel like yt commenters are just brutal man
tough salmon
Do we...?
tribal cosmos
That hater is me Kappa
mighty pivot
i have a outlaw hater watching my vids
reply to him and ask him what specs he plays
and then ask him to 1v1 you on vayne
vivid vessel
xdd
grim steppe
thebaussffs philosoply whoever wins in a 1v1 is right
wintry solar
and then ask him to 1v1 you on vayne
I had the biggest and I mean BIGGEST shit talker in Acherus once and he asked for a 1v1. Him on ret me on dk. Well I called his bluff and sent him my bnet and he never accepted it. He wanted to wait until after ret got reworked probably.
I even pinged him saying I could swap to frost since I'm not as good with frost but he hasn't sent a message in that server since.
mighty pivot
popo why is it that every time you bring up something that happened you're never on rogue?
wintry solar
I do, I put it in the pvp channel
If it's rogue related and also pvp related, it's in pvp channel. Otherwise I say it wherever
wintry solar
You're welcome Weran
mighty pivot
If it's rogue related and also pvp related, it's in pvp channel. Otherwise I say...
outlaw rogue and pvp player you must be critically endangered
wintry solar
Outlaw in PvP is the cherry on top
glass mortar
tfw almost 300 armor with 1 defensive item
wintry solar
We could all leave and blizz wouldn't notice
past fossil
Does blade flurry affect gun attacks?
mighty pivot
yes
wintry solar
Makes sense when you don't think about it
mighty pivot
it's blade and gun flurry
glass mortar
all ST attacks we do get BFd
past fossil
Yeah I was just wondering if guns counted since they're ranged.
glass mortar
as long as its ST
craggy barn
bullets are like round blades
vivid vessel
do you guys think zac plays lol in french
no
vivid vessel
wtf zac u only hit 298k on this vod
im learning how to bait clicks
are you proud of me zomb
mighty pivot
ask casual for some tips
stable crow
just drop a video when patches drop
with thumbnail like OUTLAW DEAD ZAMN OVER LIKE NEVER BEFORE
shit like that
btw mr. @vivid vessel do you happen to have your UI published somewhere?
vivid vessel
stable crow
Thanks man
I knew there was something I saw it during stream on chat
But shit happens and the txt I saved it into got to the same fate as my other txt files
"documents"
vivid vessel
idk its still fairly simple
jsut a lot of steps
sorry cant just export weak auras anymore
would be so simple
hardy thicket
tell me about it
I was a zac UI enjoyer
til addon nerf
but it is kinda awesome I wanna get back to it
hardy thicket
ye its funny isnt it
stable crow
Just more of a hassle to get anything
vivid vessel
we are legit so close also
like
just put back our own self buffs and cds as non secret
and people can go back to weak auras
instead of all these cringe ass cdm addons
i hate cdm addons
stable crow
"just figure it out gang" ahh design
hardy thicket
The game isnt even harder now just more annoying to get all the god damn crap to make it close to before
insane
or well its harder because you cant get it to 100%
Oh well. 
random stirrup
what the fuck were they expecting people to do at lura
tbh i dont think it would have been that bad
we didnt use the wa for the p3 stuff which is 3 symbols
the kicks thing was some shit though
hardy thicket
iuno just the combo of the kicks + symbols in p1
feels like not a very friendly fight where they nuked shit
(i havent gotten to the fight yet im a casual pleb now)
mighty pivot
them requiring 15 kicks on 3 identically looking mobs was definitely a decision
vivid vessel
ok but that mechanic does not require any weak aura
the minigame is a bit weird without weak aura
but
the kick thing
not at all
they made it so the mobs have a clear debuff
with a number on it
so you just have to know which mob you are kicking (boss frame focus) and whihc number you are kicking
like people use a weak aura for idk
makes it slightly easier
but you really dont need it
glass mortar
the kick thing feels like it shoulda just been another raz mechanic like
mighty pivot
it doesn't need a WA but you need a macro to set your focus on the appropriate boss unit, which is silly. they could've made the matrices different names and colours
glass mortar
w/e
and the whole raid just throws all their shit at it in the opener
but doing it this way while pretending it wouldnt need an addon to solve was wild
vivid vessel
it doesn't need a WA but you need a macro to set your focus on the appropriate b...
you dont need a macro
you can mouseover focus the boss frames
and having diff name or color wouldnt change anything
you would still take one on focus
either mouseovering a boss frame
or with a macro @ focus x mob
no one is mouseover kicking these casts lol
vivid vessel
but doing it this way while pretending it wouldnt need an addon to solve was wil...
it doesnt need an addon tho
like
im serious
im actually impressed at how well that mechanic is integrated
to not need an addon
the debuff being a stack which is basically a kick counter
was a good idea
you do need an ui that isnt garbage tho
for sure
mighty pivot
you can mouseover focus the boss frames
isn't that literally a macro
vivid vessel
how do people kick in wow lol
everything is a macro
you think if mobs had different name and color people would do it differently ?
im confusedd
waht do you want people to do
target them
the mobs dont take damage
stable crow
people who tab target and let jesus take the wheel
vivid vessel
you cant say that asking players to mouseover focus a boss frame
is too much lol
its asked of you in keys
no one cares
why not in raid
wintry solar
people who tab target and let jesus take the wheel
I refuse to do anything else
If I can't target them with tab, it wasn't meant to be
hardy thicket
Like I didnt even know u could count thru the debuffs so all fair reasoning to me kek
stable crow
real shit
vivid vessel
Like I didnt even know u could count thru the debuffs so all fair reasoning to m...
yes well
the issue is that
base ui is bad
and most people ui is bad
proven ocean
hardy thicket
The fuck
vivid vessel
can either look on the plate debuff (dont do that) or look at the boss frame debuff
but yes tbf
if you do that fight with natty ui
idk if you even see boss frame debuffs
random stirrup
it doesn't need a WA but you need a macro to set your focus on the appropriate b...
all the focus macros are noob
you just use an @boss macro
mighty pivot
that gets screwed if a boss dies
vivid vessel
when boss 1 dies boss 2 becomes boss 1
mighty pivot
^
vivid vessel
you can if you are one of the first kicks
neat torrent
hey, i got a question, is it okey to use my 6 stack Opportunity if im at 4 or 5 cp?
random stirrup
Boss 4 Macro (Matrix 3)
/use [@boss4, exists] Kick
/use [@boss3, exists] Kick
/use [@boss2, exists] Kick
mighty pivot
that works I guess
vivid vessel
ok sure
random stirrup
this is exact what we use for 3rd matrix
vivid vessel
i mean idk
random stirrup
its giga op no?
random stirrup
well yes but this way i dont need to think
mighty pivot
why 3 lines though you can do them in 1 line
random stirrup
giga gains
vivid vessel
also you guys mentionned razageth earlier
wintry solar
Click and kick
vivid vessel
people had macros for razageth
wintry solar
Otherwise ur bad
hardy thicket
hey, i got a question, is it okey to use my 6 stack Opportunity if im at 4 or 5 ...
Yeah
neat torrent
aight thanks, i read the guide but i wasnt sure
hardy thicket
You just press pistol shot as first priority if you need to build and you have 6 stacks of FtH
stone blaze
!prekey
ornate heathBOT
- Use
Adrenaline Rush to activate 
Loaded Dice. - As Trickster, use
KS to activate 
Disorienting Strikes. - Do NOT use
RTB before the key, you will lose it. - Use
SND during the bubble once the key starts.
maiden beacon
Guys, how is outlaw performing compared to our other specs
vivid vessel
in lower keys like 15 and under outlaw is obviously always kinda king cause no cds is too good
then for higher keys sub will prolly do a bit more overall but doesnt have prio for packs, st is similar
assa will do maybe slightly less overall but it has funnel so can be an arguement
also for outlaw to do more you prolly need to be an outlaw main, and not just reroll from assa to outlaw or sub to outlaw
slow granite
i am starting 17s..i know its not that high but still, my damage is a rollercoaster
i did a skyreach out of time by 3 seconds where i rolled only twice >3
in all the dng, how is that possible?
red pike
in lower keys like 15 and under outlaw is obviously always kinda king cause no c...
btw sub prio is not that bad 😄
red pike
not much far
red pike
i really dont know but i can show u smt
we wiped after we killed first pull of sky 19 i mean on secend pull repel went off and we wiped and just watching my dmg and most of it was to big birds
red pike
but the only thing i do for more prio dmg
its just i macro coupe with black powder
and stay close to prio target
and i really feel its prio dmg
vivid vessel
i mean ok thats just normal rotation wdym
sub still loses 16% of its st going in aoe
while outlaw gain 6%
ancient cobalt
guys i would like to report i did lura as sub last night..
and it was alot better in every regard im sorry to say
red pike
i mean ok thats just normal rotation wdym
u are right but the amount of burst dmg is the same ?
vivid vessel
what does this mean
red pike
16% of what number
vivid vessel
you do 16% less st than in single target
outlaw does 6% mroe st than in single target
red pike
u mean i do 16% less ST in AOE am i right ?
vivid vessel
yes
no
not 16% less st than outlaw
sub from st to aoe lose 16% on its prio target
red pike
yes
yea exactly but i can do 900 to 1 mil in AOE 16 % compare to outlaw dmg profile is kinda not far
red pike
i understand what u say but i dont know how to tell u what i mean
upper hawk
this is such a classic romcom. i'm rooting for you guys
vivid vessel
i understand what u say but i dont know how to tell u what i mean
i mean im telling you sub prio is lower than outlaw or assa prio
by a decent margin
doesnt matter that you are doing 1 mil burst
keen belfry
faint pendant
agility?
stable crow
M+ players got so much brainrot they start roleplaying
faint pendant
a dh that doesn't play devo?
tepid galleon
So is blizz gonna prune outlaw and bake everything together
upper hawk
mmm, baked prunes
tepid galleon
Or are we gonna have to keep looking at our bars to play the game
vivid vessel
if you are looking at your bars in 2026
idk
time to retire or smth
blizz even made a cooldown manager for people that refuses addons
stable crow
just feel it
tepid galleon
Ok I meant cdm
vivid vessel
ok so you want to play a spec where you dont hav e to ever look at your cds and shit ?
fluid meadow
and u can make sounds when things reset
vivid vessel
like just vibe it out
tepid galleon
I mean I haven’t played a spec that relied on watching cds refreshed
I don’t want random crutch sounds popping off in my game lol
red pike
i put timer on my phone every 1:30 for cds it will alarm
vivid vessel
I mean I haven’t played a spec that relied on watching cds refreshed
just have to know how much cdr finishers gives you
dont need to constantly be looking at your bars
mighty pivot
you can always use 1 button rotation to not have to look
tepid galleon
I meant cdm
vivid vessel
i just know that if my adr is under 10s and im pressing a finisher with triple buff
vagrant saddle
if u cant feel when cds are coming, u dont deserve outlaw smh
vivid vessel
im getting adr back
tepid galleon
So yall aren’t minmaxing bte damage
upper hawk
the whole game is vibe coded now. maybe vibe playing is the secret
tepid galleon
The bonus damage you get from bte
tepid galleon
Yeah am I not supposed to
vagrant saddle
what changes if u r tracking it or not?
tepid galleon
It’s fat damage Idk
vivid vessel
well it is
but
what are you doing to play around that fat damage
do you press your buttons harder during it
upper hawk
it has no impact on the buttons you press though, right? so why track it other than for funsies to see how high it gets sometimes?
mighty pivot
I have a vibrator that changes intensity depending on bte stacks
tepid galleon
Essentially but I have a hard time having fun when I’m just looking at what CDs are going to refresh before I spam it
upper hawk
no now watching bars is fun
vivid vessel
hm
tepid galleon
Like lining it up with ar or something when it comes up
I’m genuinely confused on how much you have to track and watch for this spec when every spec other than shadow priest is way more streamlined
vivid vessel
idk maybe outlaw isnt for you if you dont like having cdr on finishers ?
vivid vessel
I’m genuinely confused on how much you have to track and watch for this spec whe...
i mean you track things you dont need to track tho
show me your ui in combat
tepid galleon
Perhaps.. I always like the idea of outlaw but the execution isn’t what I enjoy
mighty pivot
restless blades has been part of the spec for over 15 years
tepid galleon
At work but basically I use wows cdm
vivid vessel
not much going on rn on outlaw
tepid galleon
It’s very shit I know
mighty pivot
it's not something recent, so I dunno why you'd expect it to change
vagrant saddle
default cdm is trash, it tracks even dispatch
vivid vessel
there is a bunch of things you dont need to track
tepid galleon
Maybe I can let go of a few things like I’m also tracking opportunity strikes
vivid vessel
Maybe I can let go of a few things like I’m also tracking opportunity strikes
well no you do need to track pistol shot
tepid galleon
FF is useless to track
tepid galleon
Ok cook
tepid galleon
Yeah I track dice
vivid vessel
and adr but honestly what is even the point of tracking adr
just vibes
track adr tho dont be a psychopath
but ye
mighty pivot
and adr but honestly what is even the point of tracking adr
for prep only
vivid vessel
so its like bf and ps that are the actual relevant buffs you have to pay attnetion to
tepid galleon
Do you press bte off cd
vivid vessel
yes
calm atlas
yo. As outlaw what weapon should I upgrage to 295ilvl first?
calm atlas
yea, ty
maiden beacon
its just i macro coupe with black powder
What does this mean? How do you do that?
ashen birch
Should be a pin in subtlety channel so the macro casts coupe over BP when it coupe procs
maiden beacon
Oh its a sub thing
ashen birch
Ye
maiden beacon
ok thank you.
I keep finding myself in a 5 cb situation. Unless i gor KS done, what is best prio? Just a quikck SS?
vivid vessel
y
lethal oak
formal thunder
do the bird riders in Windspire have a built in desync or is it a matter of when they are pulled?
glass mortar
I keep finding myself in a 5 cb situation. Unless i gor KS done, what is best pr...
w/e ur prio builder is
ancient cobalt
u never want ur strongest soldiers to join them
they all fall in line
he would betray us
maiden beacon
w/e ur prio builder is
is it not always SS tho at 5 cp?
another thing, dno where my combo points went here they wont show now with this UI :/
Anyone got a cool UI to recommend? To easier keep track of Blade Flurry, what roll u got and combo points?
cinder relic
Guys were ramping
radiant wyvern
this is rogue discord
cinder relic
I gotta make a 3rd alt
And no other melee is cool
we have too many paladins, and I already have a warrior
wintry solar
Nothing another rogue won't fix
cinder relic
I think if I had 5 rogues thered be 0 chance I'd kill lura ever again 
At least my warrior is shout, and none of our melee flex warrior rn
cinder relic
I mean if I didn't want to play monk, I wouldnt play monk
wintry solar
For you see, my way of fun is the only correct way
cinder relic
I have a paladin ready and I'd say "Yeah just suck it up for group 3 we're gonna have a lot of paladins"
wintry solar
I mean if I didn't want to play monk, I wouldnt play monk
Get well soon btw
cinder relic
intead I was like "Monk sounds fun lets get a monk ready, we also have no monks in guild"
wintry solar
See how Guy had to rationalize making a monk?
vivid vessel
intead I was like "Monk sounds fun lets get a monk ready, we also have no monks ...
such a nice guy
cinder relic
the rationale of "its fun" 🎭
wintry solar
Just ripped a hole in my uniform, maybe it's (Touch of) Karma
rancid silo
Whats considered the best spec for low keys liek the 10-12s
cinder relic
I think the entire channel would turn into a red mist if they had to press fist of fury
cinder relic
Whats considered the best spec for low keys liek the 10-12s
For rogue? probs outlaw
wintry solar
I think the entire channel would turn into a red mist if they had to press fist ...
Just say this in the pvp channel and you'll get exactly that