outlaw

[random stirrup]

im sad i liked my idea of gripawang

grip a wang

haha funny

[glass mortar]

what about awangripper

ahaha woops fruedian slip

mb

[real yew]

Guys, on Crown, when the adds on p2 have 0 life, do we still use BF for the CP or it's not worth it?

[cinder relic]

I'm kinda sad that this haste helmet isn't as good as I thought it would end up being

At least the double socket ring is huge

Kinda rude for seat to havel ike, 10 items in it

[vivid vessel]

i mean its basically bis if you can gear around it tho

maybe better in m+ cause more haste needed but like idk

[cinder relic]

I was trying to configure some shit last night to make it look ideal

[vivid vessel]

are you way over haste or what

[cinder relic]

The seat helmet always inched ahead

[dim parrot]

What if u use vorasius ring

[cinder relic]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gWeq7whbMWQiTK9marLVpu

[fickle urchin]

if im 34 crit 22 haste unbuffed i use haste flask?

[cinder relic]

This is like a half scuffed sim

But like, Just checking haste helmet vs seat helmet, some rings, some recrafts, etc

My gear is so ass though so

[sullen sequoia]

!macro

[ornate heath]

Why don't we macro trinkets to abilities?

• You want to use trinkets while BtE is active, but you can't macro them to BtE, as breaking vanish with a trinket will cause Subterfuge to not activate, so Vanish > BtE macro could fail.
• Trinkets are your only on demand burst damage, you sometimes want to hold it for specific mobs or vulnerability windows.
• You usually don't want to send it on a dying mob.

[bronze badge]

Y

[formal knot]

just sim it tbh tbh

[kind onyx]

is it possible to macro BtE and dispatch together? to only cast dispatch if BtE is not castable? is that a thing or stupid to do?

[vivid vessel]

this is defnitly unexpected

[cinder relic]

nop

[gaunt phoenix]

not possible

[kind onyx]

ahh kk ty

[cinder relic]

I'm sure it would change if I got a different cloak, a different belt etc but

seems hard to manage with just raid loot

[vivid vessel]

i would think with both voracius ring + saladar neck

you would have low enough haste

[cinder relic]

yer

thats what im sayin

Statweights are bad but

That topgear has this statweights fex

[short briar]

does 1 hr tricks works such that it it is basically perma in combat and disappears after combat ends?

[gaunt phoenix]

no

its perma until you die

[cinder relic]

Its only at 23% haste as well

[short briar]

bro

i cant get a single pit key wtf LOL

[gaunt phoenix]

pitless

[tight kernel]

Hows the war arc

[real yew]

Guys, on Crown, when the adds on p2 have 0 life, do we still use BF for the CP or it's not worth it?

[short briar]

been running own key so much and ONLY pit is a 2 and that was a pug, never got it as my own key

[keen belfry]

im cooking

200k in a pit

[sonic flint]

Yo do we roll off 3+ RtB when it has 10/15 sec remaining, Sleight of Hand is up and AR is coming up off cd, or do we just pop AR and waste the Sleight ?

[vivid vessel]

@cinder relic you get to 25% haste with both helm + ring

its not even that crazy

surprising it doesnt want it

but i mean the helm is still way easier to get than seat helm

you are never getting seat helm

there is like 20 loots in that dungeon

i think if you manage to replace your belt and maybe cloak it might end up neutral in the end

[rough oriole]

dis one

[glass mortar]

you waste loaded

(loaded dice is what i believe u mean not sleight)

[sonic flint]

ah tru sorry was just reading something related to sleight but ye

[cinder relic]

yeah probs

[sonic flint]

brain fart

[glass mortar]

ye sims waste some loaded dice

it just happens

[sonic flint]

yea, happens quite often too

when I get lucky

feelsbadman

[glass mortar]

if u had 2 buffs there id roll early to fish for a better buff but not on 3

people have done feelcrafty stuff around this but nothing solid in sims

🤷

[sonic flint]

ye ye I also roll on 2

but sometimes I have like 25+ seconds on 3+ and I get my AR off

[formal knot]

the sim doesn't want me to go past 22% haste 25% is a lie made up by Big Haste

[sonic flint]

and loaded is there as well

mosty when I pop Preparation after garbo reset on BtE on the first pull

[prisma gazelle]

is there a window where you should delay spending supercharged combo points if BtE is on CD?

[gaunt phoenix]

not officially. maybe if AR is ahead of BtE by 1 finisher. and that certainly does not matter until the pinned bug is fixed

[dim parrot]

3 roll is very good for AR window and CDR. Rerolling to a 2 before AR is lame

[prisma gazelle]

thanks, i guess i'll just send it. honestly didn't even notice the bug

[tight kernel]

Chat whats the quickest way to get hero crest

[keen belfry]

ritual sites

[fervent garden]

trade in champion crests works too

[timid portal]

I have crafted engi helm with haste and with oils on weapon im on 25% haste

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/burning-legion/sheefto/

[bronze badge]

@vivid vessel salut mec dit moi ton collier tu le garde pour les proc ?

[dull ginkgo]

Baguette

[mighty pivot]

oui oui

[vivid vessel]

i didnt have anything else till now

• its hard to get the haste depending on gear

it doesnt proc

as trikcster

proc as fatbeound tho

[keen belfry]

plz translate zac

i think the rare neck?

collier sounds like collar

[mighty pivot]

translate to australian zac

[keen belfry]

outback steakhouse

[fervent garden]

i chat gpt'ed it cause i was curious

Mes chaussettes sont tombées dans les toilettes, et ma femme a oublié de nourrir la tortue

[mighty pivot]

I got "collier" (necklace) and proc realised it was about the proc neck. That was enough info to tune off

[bronze badge]

Zac is french no?

[worldly shale]

different stats for fatebound or no?

[craggy barn]

ye

[worldly shale]

forgor

[craggy barn]

ye to french

not really for stats

trickster wants a bit more haste

[worldly shale]

ye thats what i thought

[craggy barn]

but can do either with same stats

[short briar]

is the gem embellish only when u have near max gems?

[random stirrup]

he aura farm you by replying in english (wrong reply)

[craggy barn]

mplus ud use haste flask for trick tho

[random stirrup]

brazy

[mighty pivot]

HORS-LA-LOI!!!

[bronze badge]

Trik > 25% more, fate 22 23 is okay

[craggy barn]

u can have same haste for both, ud just use haste flask as trick

[worldly shale]

yeye

thats what im gonna do

just raiding rn

im at 24

and we can dispatch on 5 as fb right?

[timid portal]

yes

[still smelt]

Hello, do you know where i can find other ayijecdm profiles, i mean outside of rogue and the one shared by Zac's ui ?

[timid portal]

maybe on wago?

[brittle lake]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[worldly shale]

thats gonna be hard to get out of my muscle memory XD

[timid portal]

https://wago.io/browse/ayije-cdm

[timid portal]

i tried fb on keys once and died to agro bcs i forgot no perma tricks

and then switched back to trickster

[still smelt]

Ty mate 🙂 i did my research wrong before asking

[timid portal]

also kinda forgot i can finish dispatch on 5 XD

[pastel cloud]

what can be the worst thing outlaw can do in single target cuz for some reason i do 0 single target

[glass mortar]

not pressing buttons fast enough/properly casting ar and major cds close to on cd an be factors but outlaw always tends to be death by a million little rules u are getting wrong fairly often when damage is suffering

[gaunt rover]

you forgot to use roll the bones

[mighty pivot]

you have a dagger as mh

[pastel cloud]

i don't

[gaunt rover]

low haste? idk

[pastel cloud]

preaty sure i do everything correctly imma pay more attention ig

[twilit axle]

Classic

[mighty pivot]

everything correctly but doing 0 damage doesn't add up

log your runs

[vivid vessel]

[spare dome]

are you hyped zac for poe2 reveal?

[vivid vessel]

wtf is poe bro

[elder sonnet]

Janalai’s precision OH?

[spare dome]

Path of exile wtf!!!!!

[vivid vessel]

ye why not

sims better

[elder sonnet]

Hmmm interesting

[random stirrup]

noob ilvl

[vivid vessel]

wdym noob ilvl bro

[elder sonnet]

Fat ilvl chief 🫡

[vivid vessel]

i just lack one item

fuck you no

[random stirrup]

ye noob ilvl

[vivid vessel]

??

you have more ?

[random stirrup]

yep

full 289

[timid portal]

[vivid vessel]

thats not true

[random stirrup]

didnt update armory obv

[vivid vessel]

there is only 2 rogues above me

and i think one of them doesnt hvae

.75 is like

i think he would be missing an item still

ok send raiderio ryldder

[random stirrup]

i do not have it was ragebait

[vivid vessel]

yes

fuck you

i own your ass rylder

[random stirrup]

my outlaw guy would be 287 though

[vivid vessel]

noob ilvl

[random stirrup]

i am red now zac

me press funny grip button

[craggy barn]

zac

[random stirrup]

make boss easy

[craggy barn]

actually nvm

[vivid vessel]

no

you dont do that zomb

tell me !

[craggy barn]

ok ill hold ar for bte if i fuck up

[mighty pivot]

nice sub helm and trinket nub

[vivid vessel]

dont care

i have 10 times your gear ninja

thus

im better

[mighty pivot]

true I am 28 ilvl

[random stirrup]

show your plume

[vivid vessel]

No

I should've used coin on hc beloren

I honest to God didn't think about it

Imma have too many coins

Don't know what to do with them

[young mango]

guys i have a question, why my tricks is not 1 hour dura ?

[random stirrup]

my outlaw guy is just missing 160 crests to upgrade my 2 crafts

[mighty pivot]

it is, you have to attack something first

[random stirrup]

otherwise he is full bis

well my boots suck a bit

and head

secondaries no matter right

[young mango]

so i should use it in combat ?

[mighty pivot]

you can use it before combat and once you attack something it will last for 1h

[glass mortar]

u cast it and u get a 30 second tricks buff (this is how it always works)

once u actually consume that buff to trigger tricks redirect

it becomes 1 hour

u need to hit something

[young mango]

ah okay thanks ❤️

[blissful idol]

a bit op

[vivid vessel]

you at 39% base crit ?

thats crazy actually

im at 36%

and i have pretty much bis gear

ok i guess my head

is wasted stats

[blissful idol]

i should re gem

wtf am i doing

lol

[silk gale]

!rtb

[ornate heath]

How to use RTB
(Assuming season 3 tier and Supercharger)

• Roll if you have 0 or 1 buffs.
• Roll if you have 2 buffs and Loaded Dice is active.
• Roll once asap after pressing KIR, as your buffs don't get rolled away. Use this weakaura to see when your buffs don't get rolled away (yellow border).
• After the KIR roll, continue to watch the weakaura as buffs tick down. As your buffs expire you may hit a point where your remaining buffs are yellow and you can roll again.

[valid hound]

hey guys, if someone can help with GV decision

would you take weap (currently have crafted) or take vest (catalyst + myth crests)?

i think better to take weap because it drops less often

when simmed, vest 0.7%, weap 0.4%

[drowsy shore]

hey guys, new to rogue (after 10 years of tanking only.) any specific channel to get some guidance my rotation? i just have on log in vors myth

[valid hound]

faq channels

[buoyant cosmos]

You can use the !log command to start a thread as well

[drowsy shore]

thank you

[vivid vessel]

@fathom bramble i progged beloren

and lura

without the raid buff

the 4% thingy

[hardy thicket]

had to play with a handicap

to make it fair

[vivid vessel]

i swear this thing is so stupid

why is it a random quest mob

you dont see

hidden in a corner

doesnt show on map

just ot get a buff

?

give buff ?

idk ?

[glass mortar]

zac when he needs to talk to an npc

😠

zac when rpg

[wintry solar]

[random stirrup]

nah

this cant be real

[solid citrus]

I’m seeing something about a last minute change to outlaw, was it an aura buff or was the trickster nerf changed?

[random stirrup]

this is the real ragebait

[solid citrus]

Following patch notes this season has been a part time job and I can’t keep up

[wintry solar]

It went from a 5 to 9 percent aura buff

[solid citrus]

Ok so trickster is still slightly better?

[wintry solar]

Yes

[fathom bramble]

Gg

[lavish halo]

At 2 CP and i got 3 stacks of opportunity i still use Blade furry even if its allready up ? Always when im under 4 cp ?

[glass mortar]

assuming you have deft talented and you are in an aoe situation where its going to generate a bunch of CP, yes

BF under those conditions is your highest prio generator

[lavish halo]

Yea just needed to check, even at 2 targets right?

[glass mortar]

no not at 2 targets

[lavish halo]

4 targets

ok ! ty

I missread, thx

[glass mortar]

ye

2 targets is just for maintaining the buff

[vivid vessel]

i gapped you without raid buff lil buddy

[lavish halo]

yea, that what was my head was thinking , but i missread and got confused

ty

[glass mortar]

this is the rule for using as a builder with the buff already up

[random stirrup]

time to retire

[slim hare]

congratz zac big e-penis

[summer nimbus]

do we roll away triplethreat/jackpot when it has like 10 secs left if we are gonna ar already having loaded dice

[glass mortar]

no

[summer nimbus]

but it could be anything in the box it could even be a jackpot!

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-mystery-box-boat-could-be-anything-gif-22471323

[tough lagoon]

https://klipy.com/gifs/cat-gambling--k01KR1W8SD6TWWSADEJ7PHB357S

[glass mortar]

its probably not a huge deal if u do fwiw

but sims wont

they just munch some LD

[slim hare]

you want to munch some imo

[midnight granite]

You could hold ar depending how long you have ld for over the current roll, if your roll has more time than ld you munch for sure

[glass mortar]

plz dont hold AR for 10s with 3buff/jackpot

the amount of cdr u miss out on if u dont roll another 3/4 buff in thats 10s

🥹

probably missed out on a third of an AR cdr doing that

actually even if u do roll them

u still stalled AR 10s of 3 buff cdr

[midnight granite]

Yeah more talking like <5 seconds

[glass mortar]

yea i mean sims have not found gains in ever rerolling a 3/4 afaik

but its not a big loss or anything in those niche situations

might depend on what ur about to do fight wise as well

[random stirrup]

#outlaw message

[frail veldt]

has anyone tested that the bonus crit damage actually got fixed

cuz lowkey

I dont feel like I lost 2% damage

I kinda feel like my overall went up

[timid portal]

okay any gamer tips

for mythic crown?

[gaunt phoenix]

it did

[gaunt phoenix]

you lost -2% st, not key overall

[frail veldt]

tru tru

im just wondering why we moved up in the ranks from logs

oh I guess our dps is the same other people just went down

[keen belfry]

and i started logging so we went up way

np @frail veldt

[frail veldt]

tru

[glass mortar]

we also scale now so like

scaling up mewo

opposite of basically all of outlaw history

[frail veldt]

do we really

I feel like as soon as vers starts being good weve stopped scaling

which we kinda already hit at 40/25 for crit/haste

[glass mortar]

sure but 40/25 haste is like

282 ilvl idk

endgame s1 gear

wont scale as hard next season thats tru

still better then before tho

[frail veldt]

ye tru

[red tendon]

This looks like better and better phys comp

[wintry leaf]

Sub is that far down,m

?

[frail veldt]

its doing 6k less overlal on average

its not that far

[random stirrup]

the data is usually not great early in the reset

[wintry leaf]

Tankier though

[nova sinew]

bad prio i think

on sub

[random stirrup]

can see that average key level its using this week so far is only 18.4

[nova sinew]

is sub less funnel than outlaw

it prob is

[frail veldt]

outlaw has no funnel

[random stirrup]

while last week was 20.3

[frail veldt]

outlaw has negative funnel in aoe

due to KS

[quaint mauve]

sin has the best prio

[nova sinew]

what about deft

and 4pc

[frail veldt]

I dont think it outweighs KS

zac has done sims on it

[random stirrup]

damage to prio target goes down in aoe

[frail veldt]

^

[nova sinew]

o_O

that doesnt seem right

but idk

[random stirrup]

#1065730004920586350 message we talked about it a bit

idk

doesnt really make sense to me much but

[frail veldt]

KS does like 6% of our damage

so in aoe

you lose a good chunk of that

[vivid vessel]

last i checked we still gained prio

[frail veldt]

the cp from BF does not outweigh how much you lose

or its very close

[nova sinew]

can we just cancel ks at high energy or something

[frail veldt]

yeah it depends on tuning at any given moment tbh

[frail veldt]

that would lose all of KS lol

[nova sinew]

well like

[real yew]

Zac, do you have a Crown outlaw PoV?

[frail veldt]

also we already do

[nova sinew]

yeah

[frail veldt]

we cancel KS at high energy

[nova sinew]

i mean more like

[frail veldt]

and optimally we now KS at 5cp

so its shorter

which prob helped the prio

[vivid vessel]

no i killed it as sub and never rekilled it

[random stirrup]

alleria reprog gonna go hard after lura dies

[nova sinew]

low key forgot what i meant to say but it wasnt this

[quaint wharf]

i just ks at 5 most of the time

full duration gives u 6 cp

[nova sinew]

its kinda piss now

got nerfed really hard

we had like 3 people go full pepega and run off the edge

[wintry solar]

You do anyway

[nova sinew]

and still killed at the start of platform 3

[wintry solar]

Can, rather

[random stirrup]

we are gonna miss 18 arrows

certainly

[nova sinew]

yeah ive been doing that idek why i said that

[random stirrup]

i was always curious what excess energy meant here

[glass mortar]

capping

[random stirrup]

ok but are you gonna tell me that it's possible to hit energy cap

[glass mortar]

iirc back when solo was first talking about this the only metric he gave us for cancelling KS was literally capping on energy

during kspre? ye

[random stirrup]

no wei

[glass mortar]

normally during kspree outside ar? no

[frail veldt]

correct ye

thas whats in the faq at least

[random stirrup]

i stayed cancelling it but i am quite certain i never capped on energy

maybe blind pov

[frail veldt]

I let it fully channel most of the time

[glass mortar]

then ur probably not cancelling it correctly

[nova sinew]

also idk if this is good but

[glass mortar]

me when i int

[frail veldt]

cuz the only time youre at full energy is like start of pull

[glass mortar]

probably losing 0.069% dps

[nova sinew]

ive been rerolling at 2 roll / loaded dice with like <40s on kir

[glass mortar]

using the rule suboptimally

[nova sinew]

just feels right

[random stirrup]

cancelling it is always correct because the spell is boring

and sucks!

[frail veldt]

I think thats also in the faq

[glass mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-true-soyjak-wojak-gif-14828627546768133163

[nova sinew]

well i think rerolling with kir is

[frail veldt]

its a decent gain to roll over 2 buff

if you have KIR up/soon

[nova sinew]

but i didnt think doing it before its up was

[frail veldt]

*with LD ofc

[frail veldt]

its probably too small a differecne

between doing it before or after

cuz technically

[nova sinew]

i like to press ranger captain inside of killing spree :-)

[frail veldt]

no need to do it before

its the same

if you thin kabout it

as long as you wont lose the LD buff by the time KiR comes up

actually its prob worse cuz if you do roll 2 again

you just shortened your 2 for no reason

only time to roll over a 2 buff with LD is when youre wasting potential cdr on KiR

[verbal lily]

all my friends went from outlaw back to sub, is it really ythat bad? 🙁

[frail veldt]

no

outlaws just about unchanged from before

which means were still decently strong

not S tier but def good

[verbal lily]

if u wanna get the max dps out of the class, would u go for sub or outlaw?

[frail veldt]

people often roll off when they realize they arent doing as much damage as they hoped so that might be why

or your friends just didnt like the playstyle

[frail veldt]

for which content?

m+?

[verbal lily]

for M+ and mythic raiding

[frail veldt]

m+ outlaw does more

mythic raiding isnt about max dps

its about killing bosses

sub is good at some bosses outlaw is good at others

[verbal lily]

the council is what outlaw shines at i guess

[strange kelp]

Uhm excuse me sir, Yoda clearly said he thought outlaw could be S++

[frail veldt]

0% chance its S++

[nova sinew]

i think outlaw gets better at paladins on shorter kills maybe

[strange kelp]

I know it just cracked me up

[frail veldt]

yeah outlaw is currently riding coat tails

if arms/monk werent good

outlaw would be a lot worse off

[strange kelp]

And dru shm both being good

[frail veldt]

yeah I mean druid is good for everyone

but war/monk/sham is like 17% damage

[strange kelp]

It's crazy how much impact raid buffs have

[verbal lily]

thing is, i went through warcraftlogs, and i looked at the top 50 ranking from may 6th on, and for each boss, its 90% sub rogues

[frail veldt]

in raid?

[nova sinew]

sub is much easier to play than outlaw

[frail veldt]

on which boss

[verbal lily]

yeah

[frail veldt]

like I said

[verbal lily]

all bosses on average

[frail veldt]

it depends on the boss lol

[strange kelp]

Sub also did get buffed

[nova sinew]

a lot of people are more comfortable playing sub

even last week

[strange kelp]

And it's super easy

[frail veldt]

yeah subs a lot easier too

[verbal lily]

i feel sub is more forgiving too

[nova sinew]

and somewhat less rng

[verbal lily]

if u mess up ur rotation during one dance, just do it perfect again next dance and everything will balance out again

[frail veldt]

top 50 ranking logs isnt a very useful metric tbh

[strange kelp]

Survival goated

[frail veldt]

apparently lol

but yeah overalls in raid also arent like the end all be all of what spec you should play

[verbal lily]

its insane how well demon hunters do

[nova sinew]

very easy to pad on that class

(surv)

[strange kelp]

It pads for free

[verbal lily]

if i wanted to play a spec that i enjoy playing, it would be outlaw for sure, its the most fun one for me

[frail veldt]

should be talking with your team about what damage profile it needs the most for that fight

[nova sinew]

lura on surv is really funny

[strange kelp]

Some ethical some unethical

[frail veldt]

then do it I dare you

[verbal lily]

but i also wanna do whats best for my guild progerssion wise

[frail veldt]

tbh the answer there is both prob then

[verbal lily]

progression*

[frail veldt]

thats what most outlaw mains do

they play sub

when its needed

cuz its very easy to pick up

[verbal lily]

yeah good point

thank u for helping btw

ill just stick to outlaw then and go sub when needed

[strange kelp]

I want to say outlaw and sub stats aren't that far off

Maybe some mastery for sub

But it should be close enough

[verbal lily]

i heard mastery = more valueable in m+

and in raids, mastery =/= crit

[tight kernel]

Are we leeching or avoidance kind of gamers

[verbal lily]

you seem very knowledgable, do u log everything u do? m+ , raids etc

[wooden escarp]

what make bte procs, and is worth to farm 6 cp to use the proc or just send it

[tight kernel]

Also where my m+ gamers, do yall like to BF > BR > KS to get stacks of flawless form before going into AR BTE spam?

[glass mortar]

i dont press KS until BtE and prep are on cd

[frail veldt]

I don't raid much at the moment just echo info from the other more knowledgeable people here lol

I pug my mythic chim for trinket chance and that's all

[frail veldt]

Yeah I think guy was saying you can get away with haste crit on sub

But that was before they nerfed the crit damage bonus from cloud cover

So maybe they're back to haste mastery

[paper rivet]

BR>BF>KS>AR to get more Blade rush casts is what i do, seems worth it

[craggy barn]

its not that u can get away with haste crit on sub

sub wants haste crit

it just has harder haste breakpoints for damage

[frail veldt]

Yeah I know crit and mastery were close before though

So I figure the cloud cover changes might shake that up

[craggy barn]

like 600 vs 800 haste depending on if u have guidon or not

theyre back to more crit than mastery bc no more cloud

[frail veldt]

Oh what

[craggy barn]

but crit was still really good before the change

[frail veldt]

I figured it would be opposite

Interesting

[craggy barn]

they were crit haste before cloud

[paper rivet]

i think that's what he meant

no it was mastery before cloud

[frail veldt]

That's what I remember

I remember it was close before cloud, then crit was better with giga cloud

[paper rivet]

yes

[inner yacht]

wasnt mastery only better in aoe and in st it was basically same

[craggy barn]

yes that

[inner yacht]

before cloud

[paper rivet]

more targets the more mastery gains yes

[dim parrot]

KS pre key. Get BF+slice up last seconds of bubble. Open with RTB>BR>SS>SS>KS>Dispatch>AR

Usually prep after second BR

and if first RTB is only a 2, roll right after AR

[vivid vessel]

@fathom bramble thgouhts on this p3

i had jackpot

[harsh forge]

jackpot is so busted

“we’re trying to decrease the rng in outlaws performance”

25% crit sometimes

[tight kernel]

ye sometime i do this sometimes i just roll straight into ar after bubble

idk

[wooden escarp]

worth to maintence bf on single target?

[frail veldt]

bf does nothing in ST

[wooden escarp]

so we not press it?

[frail veldt]

correct

[wooden escarp]

ty

[hearty edge]

Quick question on agility, when I check some of the top guys logs for comparisons I'm short like 600-800 agi? Some of the top players are sitting at 2600-2800 on their logs, and on my log and in character pane in-game have me at 1900 (280 ilvl). I'm performing pretty well for the content I do, but always looking to get better where I can (my log for ref: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7t1mJAVL2nwgfNdC?fight=1)

[mighty pivot]

prepot

[frail veldt]

so when did they say they nerfed the fazed duration to 6s also

the aoe fazed is a shorter duration than the normal fazed

[long barn]

Did you upgrade pieces that give the most agi per ilvl? Like chest etc?

Vantus rune?

Not sure how prepot is calculated in the log

Gaze procs?

[long barn]

Wait. Is this a bug?

I don’t remember that

[frail veldt]

idk it wasnt in the patch notes afaik

they said they were shortening cloud duration and cloud buff duration

[long barn]

Yea I never noticed but that’s fucked

[frail veldt]

not making a shorter fazed duration

[long barn]

That’s not in the nerf calculator

[fathom bramble]

yeah sometimes we can just go absolutely nuclear

[frail veldt]

@vivid vessel did you know this?

[fathom bramble]

really feels like the most rng we have had in years

especially over very short timeframes

[true dust]

is there some info already on fb vs trickster? If fb, do we use the old build?

[long barn]

2x ace

Same old build

I forget what you drop for ace

[frail veldt]

SD p sure

[vivid vessel]

i didnt

idk if that matters much tho

[true dust]

thanks

[vivid vessel]

i did 120k the pull after

went to 1 buff so

[long barn]

Just make sure you get 2x ace

[fathom bramble]

I think there's too much power in ace resets thanks to the BTE damage buff

[frail veldt]

4s less fazed bonus damage time I guess

pretty decent

unfort

[light mountain]

progging pals rn and if i dont roll 3/jackpot im barely above tank dps feels so ass

[long barn]

That’s pretty significant

[fathom bramble]

yeah and rtb rank 3/4 could afford to be a little weaker

[light mountain]

when u dont have the ar guarenteed roll

and u roll a 1

like might as well js afk till next rtb

[frail veldt]

its a big combination

of LD uptime being so high

[long barn]

Last night in raid I made a macro to ask for PI when I run out of tea.. bahaha

[frail veldt]

which means you rarely have to deal with 1 roll

so when you do

it feels extra awful

and 1 roll sucks ass

[long barn]

No one listens

[frail veldt]

thats a big waste of PI

im glad they didnt

[long barn]

lol

I mean. I have really bad raiders so might have been a wash

[long barn]

Hey we aren’t last

[frail veldt]

true

[long barn]

And do you even trust that

Does PI give energy regen?

[craggy barn]

yes

[frail veldt]

barely

but yeah

the thing is

[craggy barn]

haste gives tiny regen

[frail veldt]

PIing a rogue when they have 1 roll

is giving them haste

when theyre gona do piss damage

anyway

[fathom bramble]

1% haste is approx 1% regen

[long barn]

1% blahhh

I thought it was better than that

[fathom bramble]

but giving pi to a spec where 20% haste is 20% or more damage for the window

during their cds

[fathom bramble]

is just insane

[long barn]

Yea

[frail veldt]

im not sure its 1:1

our "regen" is less than 75% of where we get haste from so

[fathom bramble]

everything on this list except thistle tea is effected directly or indirectly by haste though

[frail veldt]

oh FF increases?

BR?

[fathom bramble]

haste increases auto attacks

[frail veldt]

flickering?

[long barn]

BR is a big energy giver

[fathom bramble]

oh right BR too isn't effected

[frail veldt]

yeah does haste increase BR energy regen?

wasnt sure cuz its like a "hot" for energy haha

would be wild

[fathom bramble]

but flickering is based on energy spent and is therefor indirectly effected by everything else

[frail veldt]

yeaaaah I guess kinda

its based on procs

[fathom bramble]

it's the same thing as reduced cost

since it it just randomly reduces the cost of SS functionally

[long barn]

When I sim cleave fights my haste “value” at like 25% is like 80 or something and crit is 50

[frail veldt]

yeah its a function of how much energy you spend

[fathom bramble]

and then fatal flourish gets almost double the value from haste as simple regen does

[frail veldt]

is that because of the talent that increases our autos extra by haste

[fathom bramble]

yeah

so you get scaling on autos twice

[frail veldt]

I think the other issue with why PI is bad is that energy is feast or famine

so having more

doesnt make you do more damage

unless you dont have enough

and we only rarely dont have enough

esp as fatebound

[strange kelp]

Is it worth going past 25% haste?

[fathom bramble]

yeah pretty much

[long barn]

Right maybe only when we don’t have tea?!

[fathom bramble]

like 20% more energy doesn't equal 20% more damage

and eeven if it doees in the situation you are in it's not going to come anywhere near a burst spec getting 20% more damage during their stuff

[vivid vessel]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KFYZqPQ3JtdHG8LB?fight=25&type=damage-done&phase=4&source=2 @fathom bramble

swear its bugged no

i was perma 2 buff

like

[fathom bramble]

very marginally so and only in keys

[long barn]

Yeah, but if you’re at 42% crit and 25% haste, does versatility or mastery even come close to beating haste?

[frail veldt]

I think it was still like 24.5% ish as the optimal

at least in my sim my character prefers vers over haste even at 24.5 ish

for dslice

[craggy barn]

idk zac i had perma jackpot on first pull windrunner a few times

the sorta shit u love to see

[fathom bramble]

it was longer dungeonroutes that do it thanks to running dry on tea compared to the relatively short slice of a dungeeon that dslice does

[long barn]

I wish you could make dungeon slice like 20 minutes

[fathom bramble]

mastery cannot beat any other stat in realistic situations, and you won't realistically need to care about vers until next tiere when our budgeet is higher

[jovial hinge]

I swear I only get jackpots as the pull is ending and then inevitably there’s a pat that the tank stops for or healer is drinking just waiting for my jackpot to run out

[fathom bramble]

like as trickster hitting 40% crit and 25-28% haste is quite difficult

now interestingly because AA is simply % you actually do probably go vers there since what is keeping vers down for us rn is just that you get less % per rating compared to other stats

so looking at the values of rating on gear is different from looking at the values of % from another source

[vivid vessel]

here is something wrong on lura i swear

its not normally

[fathom bramble]

what do you mean exactly?

[craggy barn]

zac is getting skill diffed by the boss

[wooden escarp]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fathom bramble]

this is why we run trickster

just to help the tank out a little bit

[frail veldt]

I love perma tricks

more than I dislike trickster rotation + KS

[vivid vessel]

im doing way too much damage ?

[frail veldt]

perma tricks is the best QoL thing outlaw has gained in years

[ancient cobalt]

i have question how come in the apl it say reroll at 2 if loaded dice and bte is available whatsup with the bte part

[fathom bramble]

that looks normal to me

[ancient cobalt]

i will do it i just dont know why ty

[frail veldt]

its not supposed to be bte

its supposed to be KiR

I thought solo fixed that

[fathom bramble]

like this is my kill clipped to the same timeframe

I think it's just us not holding for lust

[frail veldt]

someone else noticed that bug a lil while back

[fathom bramble]

whilee everyone else is

[vivid vessel]

do you gap people by that much in p1 tho

[frail veldt]

are you looking at the most up to date apl?

or do you have a local copy

[vivid vessel]

but they arent holding anything

[ancient cobalt]

hmm not sure i got it from the simulationcraft website

[vivid vessel]

idk

[fathom bramble]

do you gap them all of p3?

[frail veldt]

how recently

[fathom bramble]

I just gap them at start idk

[ancient cobalt]

2 weeks

[vivid vessel]

havent done full one yet

hm

[frail veldt]

id go check again

[vivid vessel]

maybe you are right

[frail veldt]

see if its fixed

[ancient cobalt]

ok ok if its supposed to be kir i unnastand now

[vivid vessel]

idk seems like im gapping people by way more than i should

[frail veldt]

outlaw op

[fathom bramble]

meanwhile if I clip to only during lust lol

are you holding prep and doing double AR at the start of p3?

it's a lot of upfront damage

and I think we expect these kinds of numbers out of it when other people are using stuff at 6 minutes with lust

[vivid vessel]

ok you are right

you do hold for a long time till bl

[fathom bramble]

ideally people just make their cds line up with the 6minute lust I assume

but I'm not a cd spec

wonder if we should hold prep all the way to lust 🤔

[vivid vessel]

why

lust does nothing no

[fathom bramble]

I mean it does something

more aas more aa crits more bte crits

[random stirrup]

your cds natty line up with lust at 6:10

you dont really hold

both 90s and 2mins will get it back there if they cast on cd

its just u spend 30s at start of p3 doing nothing

[fathom bramble]

yeah that's what I kind of assumed

I wonder why lura even has a random damage amp

it's not in the dungeon journal and I can't even figure out which buff/debuff is granting it

maybe standing in the light ?

[random stirrup]

when she splits the damage is replicated on both no?

[fathom bramble]

that's a different thing

your actual spells hit 100% harder

and then the boss replicates their damage taken to the other copy as well

[random stirrup]

ya i am pretty sure she has a debuff

[fathom bramble]

the debuff on her is just the damage transfer

[random stirrup]

[vivid vessel]

yopu dont get another use anyway rigth

[fathom bramble]

I was looking for a list of every debuff/buff that appears in the fight but it seems no one else is asking this question and some of them don't appear in logs

[fathom bramble]

right

only way you get 3 uses is if you cast in p2 and p4

instead of 1 and 3

and p4 is kind of just if 18-20 raiders are alive and you are not doing 0 dps the boss dies

so trying to hold dps cooldowns for it is very silly

most of the discussion around the amp just erroneously credits the damage split for being the damage amp

but that does not appear to be what is going on and the split itself provides no increase in effective damage dealt

[vivid vessel]

wdym

in p3?

[fathom bramble]

yeah

p4 has another damage amp that is just for standing in the light

[vivid vessel]

no ye p4 sure

but p3

[fathom bramble]

p3 just has a mysterious damage amp that's not even in the journal

or maybe whoever designed the boss wanted the split to be a damage amp and didn't fully understand why it's not one

so they added a real damage amp to compensate

[surreal flower]

You deal damage to both Lura’s while only hitting one

I think

[fathom bramble]

yes

but that's not the damage amp

if you look at the logs the luras deal that damage to eachother

whilst our actual spells are also hitting twice as hard

[surreal flower]

Fights wack

Send on cd and hope you get 50% uptime on 3 buff

[fathom bramble]

and the split isn't a 'real' damage amp since she functionally doubles her damage taken, but also doubles her life

[surreal flower]

🤝

[fathom bramble]

goes from 1 950m lifebar that you get 1 damage per damage dealt to 2 950m lifebars that you deal 2 damage per damage dealt

[fathom bramble]

I think you still hold prep for p3 but yeah everything else is on cd

[surreal flower]

I think that’s the right thing to do

[vivid vessel]

i thought the damage was also

uh

[surreal flower]

But if you want to ooga booga parse I think you send on cd

[vivid vessel]

linked

[fathom bramble]

yeah that's what I was describing with the 2 healthbars

the link is just doubling her total life and doubling her damage taken

[vivid vessel]

ok but you wouldnt see that in log no /

[fathom bramble]

since the copies have the same life as the original boss

yeah you don't

[vivid vessel]

there is also a damage amp

[fathom bramble]

the split is not the damage amp

there is the damage copy from them splitting and a second actually real damage amp

[vivid vessel]

this boss is so weird anyway

i dont have a monk in p3 lok

do you think im getting fucked

or

[fathom bramble]

are you left side?

[vivid vessel]

hm

[fathom bramble]

does the monk debuff get cleared when she splits

[vivid vessel]

i spawn opposite of boss and i run to my left

[fathom bramble]

left side is the 'real' boss

rogues should always be on it for atrophic to work

[slim hare]

hey zac

progging beloren atm

[wooden escarp]

btw i think i cannot get 25% hast, what u guys recomend?

[inland acorn]

to get 24%

[surreal flower]

I didn’t either, giga cursed

[slim hare]

guild having problem with dps can you give me a tldr of the min max we can do for egg phase ?

[fathom bramble]

I think it gets cleared anyway

so no monk on your side means no mystic touch

gg

[wooden escarp]

u think worth to craft feet with only hast to get the 25 cap?

[surreal flower]

Are you holding the p1 push until right before the next color change cast?

[inland acorn]

you don't really need 25%

even 23% is fine

[wooden escarp]

ok

[inland acorn]

going higher, might help tiny bit, but it's not really necessary

[wooden escarp]

sure, thanks

[inland acorn]

also idk if you're using haste flask + phoenix oil

haste gems etc

[slim hare]

yeah

but people dont press button hard enough during burst (no aug ddoesnt help)

but i know zac did some min max for it

[inland acorn]

Best min max would be to tell people

To press buttons harder

How low did you get egg ?

[vivid vessel]

wtf

thats crazy shit

[wooden escarp]

not on gems

u recomend i try to get 25 with that all so?

[slim hare]

39

[inland acorn]

I recommend simming this

[wooden escarp]

sure

[inland acorn]

thats after 1st egg ?

or 2nd ?

[slim hare]

do you have log of your best burst for egg phase?

[slim hare]

yeah first

[vivid vessel]

300k

i didnt have the 3% tho

[inland acorn]

So boss dies in 2nd egg no ?

[vivid vessel]

and like 4 weeks ago

[random stirrup]

are you certain it isnt just the game representing the damage you're doing to the other lura as double damage on the one you're hitting for clarity

[nova sinew]

i heard a rumor that atrophic only works in p3 if you are left side

[fathom bramble]

yes

[random stirrup]

its not a rumour

[fathom bramble]

you can see in logs that it is doing both

[inland acorn]

that's not a rumor, that's a fact

[fathom bramble]

the split and the amp both exist sepperately

and the boss loses hp way too fast for it to only be the split

all the numbers stop making sense if only the split exists and the amp was just fudging the logs somehow

[fathom bramble]

the ticking damage on the raid and the damage taken from holding crystals is sourced from the leftside lura

[nova sinew]

😭

rogue relegated to easy side lfg

[slim hare]

good tell me what do i need to do to reach that

[nova sinew]

didnt exile go right side?

[arctic merlin]

we take shiv because utility or because we've got a point with nowhere better to go

it just seems like a worse dispell than what a lot of classes have

[inland acorn]

i mean

you either take shiv or

Movement speed in stealth ?

Or shroud cd

[frail veldt]

Yeah it's both

[inland acorn]

[frail veldt]

Shroud lol

[arctic merlin]

i don't mind it, i just barely eveer use it

[inland acorn]

Nothing really useful with this 1 talent point

[inland acorn]

Shroud was nice, when m+ wasn't out

So you could skip a lot of shit in m0s

[arctic merlin]

wait if idon't use the bonus loot, it still counts as used??

[inland acorn]

wdym ?

[arctic merlin]

i did an SR earlier today and declined the bonus loot because i didn't want to use it just for the trinket

but my nilhammer quest is 1/3

that's the only dungeon i've done

[inland acorn]

thats

[stone cradle]

those have nothing to do with each other

[vivid vessel]

what is left side

[inland acorn]

ye

[arctic merlin]

are we deadass

damn man im dumb af

i thought it's related

[vivid vessel]

like boss spawn, left is left and right is right

or

then im right side

wtf !

im useless !

[inland acorn]

it's for the forge item upgrade next week iirc

[random stirrup]

ye

u need to be left side on the final spread

or else atro does nothing

[nova sinew]

wait are you putting 3 monks on one side without the warrior

o_O

[random stirrup]

its an old image

we made like 5 swaps since

but yes i did notice the same thing

our officer was on crack when he cooked this up

[nova sinew]

also wtf is clavicular doing in that top spread

thought we wouldnt notice

https://tenor.com/view/giga-gigacat-cat-mewing-mogging-gif-12429734670640119345

[random stirrup]

both hunters and all monks on same side

at one point we didnt have a lust on left

[slim hare]

what was your build / trinket to reach those numbers ? puzzle box ? did you use it on the opener?

[vivid vessel]

i was stacking full superchargert

all sht

coup

[stone cradle]

yeah you're applying atrophic to the "new" lura (target=138): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KFYZqPQ3JtdHG8LB?fight=25&type=auras&phase=4&source=2&spells=debuffs&by=target&ability=392388

but all the shattered sky damage is from the original one (target=72):
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KFYZqPQ3JtdHG8LB?fight=25&type=damage-taken&phase=4&source=2&ability=1249797

[vivid vessel]

and then

i was doing gate very early > puzzle

instead of puzzle gate

i found that more consistent

you can legit go in early and feint

nothing happens

does 0 dam

and then its just sub lole

[slim hare]

so no puzzle for the opener?

[vivid vessel]

pre pull

its useless

[red zinc]

what are the roll odds with sleight again

[random stirrup]

fk that i ignore that

helps me get that 0 parse

[slim hare]

ok so no pre pull box

and stack everything i guess

[random stirrup]

i mean you can freely prebox

i was just lazy

hold dps anyway

[slim hare]

when i prebox

i lost like 4sec on egg phase

[river wing]

#1065730004920586350 message

[random stirrup]

your guild is pushing way too early

[compact olive]

gonna start gearing my rog, which dungeon is worth to spam bonus rolls in?

[nova sinew]

pit

[compact olive]

tyytyy

[edgy owl]

!bugs

[ornate heath]

[Outlaw bug Thread](#1276315296159760467 message)

[vivid vessel]

i mena its cosmetic

useless

[inland acorn]

This is old, check #outlaw-faq it has bugs section

[ancient cobalt]

if in 284.94 will one upgrade get me to 285

where are the math heads

[soft abyss]

yes

[fathom bramble]

you might get 295 from 1 single ilvl

but yes 3 ilvl will do it 100%

[soft abyss]

3ilvl is like 0.2

[fathom bramble]

3 ilvl is 0.1875 avg

[ancient cobalt]

okay tyvm

[wooden escarp]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fathom bramble]

two handed weapons that are not dual wielded count as twice as many ilvls

for reference

in case you ever play a 2h class

[slim hare]

okay ty vm next raid day im gonna be first

ill make you proud

[ancient cobalt]

omg shoutout to my alt i inted it and used 6 bonus rolls to amp my main

next week when i get the achieve

i didnt even int it i just am not rolling gaze mythic for 1 week got hella bis on my mage

[vivid vessel]

same

my poor alt

[ancient cobalt]

i collected the entirety of nexus point next week

[vivid vessel]

i rolled some random shit just to upgrade on main

haha

[ancient cobalt]

luckily it was bis for my mage too that dungeon

[vivid vessel]

but my main is juiced now !

[ancient cobalt]

i could spend gold to get 3 ilevel mythic pants…. save 10 crests next week..

naw naw naw

i bought some boots already

550k for crit haste boots not bad

[long bramble]

deserved nerf ngl

[harsh forge]

skill issue if the bear can’t keep up with you

[long bramble]

real

[wintry solar]

Take that DK out back and shoot him in the leg

What's it feel like being the only good player in a key?

[long bramble]

heavy bro

my resi 17 was HARD

this druid died like after 2nd boss we had to kite for like 2 mins

pinged this dk like 20 times before we got a grip on the caster

[wintry solar]

[keen cedar]

does any1 have problem to shoot BTE immideatly ( Have no idea how to spell this ) after AR and RTB?

[glass mortar]

going to need a bit more details im not sure what you are asking

you arent able to cast BtE immediatly after casting AR and RtB? are you just asking if this is the correct order?

[keen cedar]

Like entering fight, on Chimerius, going with AR and RTB, I want to shoot him right after that with BTE but like I cant click it, its like a bug, I can do Dispatch but cant do BTE

Its like command or click or whatever you wanna call it, is not responding

[glass mortar]

uh

[keen cedar]

Can do other finishers but not BTE

[glass mortar]

replace the bte on ur bar with bte from ur spellbook again incase theres some weird macro?

but no i have never heard of that issue

[neon rapids]

wierd

[keen cedar]

It is macro xD

[glass mortar]

....

[keen cedar]

Hahahahah

[glass mortar]

well sounds like ur macro might have an issue maybe

[keen cedar]

Fuck me

[neon rapids]

what macro do you have for bte lol

[glass mortar]

u could link it in here we can check the syntax

[keen cedar]

#showtooltip
/startattack
/cast Between the Eyes

[glass mortar]

hmm that should work

let me check my bte macro

sec

[keen cedar]

Ye I will try to replace it with one from spellbook just to check it

[glass mortar]

#showtooltip Between The Eyes
/startattack
/cast [@mouseover, harm, exists][]Between The Eyes

lets see here

i mean ur spelling all looks good

syntax looks good

hmm

wait

[keen cedar]

Ohhh, will try it, thx mate a lot

[glass mortar]

you need a target

[keen cedar]

hahaha