outlaw

[elder sonnet]

fatebound is smoother to play

[ashen void]

does fate drop SD for another point in ace?

[fair sparrow]

i think its 1 point in SD and 2 in ace

for fatebound

[digital gale]

i lke Fate just bc i love to hear my tank mate screaming at me "Stop droping the damm coins!"

[fair sparrow]

yeah idk maybe i just dont get whats smoother about it

or maybe my rolls were just ass idk

[arctic merlin]

checked faq, is it acceptable to remove just prep for sleight of hand tho?

[fair sparrow]

is this not fb for m+

[naive river]

I personally like trickster better

[thorny zinc]

you dont have to waste as much combo points as trickster does

[fair sparrow]

yeah i guess i got that

[digital gale]

in trickster u need to use Finishers at 6 CP so most of the time u wasting 2 or 3 CP

[fair sparrow]

yeah

[arctic merlin]

fb also allows for dispatch to be cast at 5 cps, avoiding you having to spend time to build that extra few and energy

[digital gale]

that plus bad rng hurt a lot in energy

[fair sparrow]

ye so you still need to finish 6+ for bte

[rough oriole]

FB def smoother gameplay

[arctic merlin]

ye bte still 6, but dispatch 5

[thorny zinc]

you also get more opp procs with fb I think

[fair sparrow]

unless i got giga unlucky with my rtbs but i wasnt paying attention to my luck that much

[thorny zinc]

could be making that up tho

[fair sparrow]

i did run out of energy as fb

[arctic merlin]

you do

it's supposed to be a lot more consistent which is why i'm asking if it's ok to swap out prep for sleight

[digital gale]

yeha bad rng on rolls and procs

[halcyon quiver]

Pin says 9% aura buff, linked patch notes say 5%- was there a second patch note link I missed? / How would I know about this without looking at discord lol

[fair sparrow]

they updated the blue post

thats how we know

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-tuning-incoming-may-5/2301220/500

[halcyon quiver]

Ah, I'm on the WoWHead link

[halcyon quiver]

Thanks!

[fair sparrow]

yeah maybe

[digital gale]

i mean in dmg terms no cuz u lost dmg but have a better rng so is up to u. I mean the dmg diff isnt that big so i think is ok

[fair sparrow]

think i just pref trickster anyways though guess im just too used to it

[rough oriole]

KS also just feels ass to press

[arctic merlin]

gamba time

[rough oriole]

does no dmg and is jsut an extra button for no reason

[digital gale]

true, thanks god we can cancel it without dmg loss

[fair sparrow]

well KS is just for unseen blade

[rough oriole]

yea im aware

[digital gale]

we are Outlaw, we gambling all the time xD

[rough oriole]

it still feels like ass to press

for a passive effect

[fair sparrow]

yeah im have to chalk this up to outlaw mains just feel diff than i do

[arctic merlin]

yes but mooore

[fair sparrow]

last time i touched this spec was goblin tier (before this tier)

[digital gale]

They should give more dmg to KS or make it a AOE 1 time hit without the channel.

[rough oriole]

or give us back t he prio damage on it

so it felt kinda useful to press

[digital gale]

^

or make it a Buff tipe like SnD

type*

[vapid agate]

is there any way to remove visual effect from cloud cover?

[buoyant cosmos]

turn down particle density

[vapid agate]

thanks

[bright plaza]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tepid galleon]

the spreadsheet not updated for the buffs

[vivid vessel]

@fathom bramble your trinket sims the same as my hc solar prism for me

weird no ?

like hc vs mythic

[fathom bramble]

Which trinket ?

[vivid vessel]

alleria

[true light]

any updated talents for FB M+ build?

[fathom bramble]

That seems odd

Alleria should be quite good

Maybe not for keys though

[vivid vessel]

no i do mean st

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vivid vessel]

i wonder if thats just since we went to trickster idk

and crit value went up a lot

i dont remmeber solarflmae being that good

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gAUCdaCCkKMrebpm4Eq6nu

[fathom bramble]

interesting

[glass mortar]

zac..... what week is it....

[fathom bramble]

a small part could also be that we just got buffed a ton

[vivid vessel]

true

[outer meteor]

guys

[fathom bramble]

so actual stats gained something while the flat damage of alleria didn't

[vivid vessel]

so stats are more value

[outer meteor]

i broke 1 mil on seat 1st pull

poggies

[glass mortar]

its week 90 and im using champion rep trinket and herioc alleria trinket...

crazy season...

we have not had 1 gaze drop from bird

cleared it since week 2

[vivid vessel]

ye

[glass mortar]

3 people have it from bonus rolls

[vivid vessel]

i need bird trinket aswell

[glass mortar]

another 2 from vault

[keen belfry]

surely i get myth gaze this week

[elder sonnet]

guys does ks overwrite fazed stacks to 1 after cloud expires?

[plush grove]

Big belt to arms warr lol

[tepid leaf]

For outlaw do we do crit potion or Haste potion? if we are under 25% haste

[teal lava]

wait

i was letting it full cast

[digital gale]

u can cancel it depending on ur procs, opportunity, BF, or a reset BtE

[dim parrot]

Just kill their funnel and they dead in the water

Ez clap

[plush grove]

haha cant kill it fast enough

[gaunt phoenix]

most ppl have like 23% raw hate and then crit pot

u dont need 25% exactly

you just kind of approach it

raw haste even

not hate usually

[restive mango]

people in here typing hate instead of haste has to be my favorite typo this season

yep olaw rogue runs on hate

[digital gale]

with 23% haste with Thalassian Phoenix Oil u can go with Crit Flask

[keen belfry]

dthis a rogue

[dim parrot]

Awang

[keen belfry]

awang

[dim parrot]

Does evasion dodge shredder jumps

[buoyant stratus]

They jump behind u

[dim parrot]

Fk

[keen belfry]

just perma rotate ur char

ez

[buoyant stratus]

Ez

[dim parrot]

What u do in hallway after second boss

[keen belfry]

blast

[buoyant stratus]

My highlight of the season was forrest chaining 4 shredders into 3 shredders

And i said "uhh this is 7 shredde-"

[dim parrot]

Hmm

Can you kidney one full duration and let them follow later

Maybe I try

[chrome bramble]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[torpid fiber]

every time I say on wow reddit that class discords are a good resource, I get a reply that makes me think that either outlaw chat is good, other specs are bad, or redditors don't trust theorycrafters

people are like "archon is a way better resource than class discords bc class discord players don't play the game" like surely you can just. Ask the good players in the spec chat why they run those talents???

[cerulean portal]

i miss the range attack talent :<

[torpid fiber]

We all do

[keen cedar]

Best talent ever

[wintry solar]

Broken record I know but I immediately felt like a weight off my shoulders when I got that talent in the legion private server

[cerulean portal]

is it ok now to play FB?

[long bramble]

to me it sims like 1.5% lower

so i guess it s fine if you want a smoother gameplay

[glass mortar]

its worswe

not by a huge amount tho

so its up to u to decide

[cerulean portal]

i just hate the cloud

i see nothing bcz of it

[strange kelp]

See nothing but your dmg going up

[cerulean portal]

i died twice in it

so no

[long bramble]

i died only once in clover and i wanted to kms

i hitted a fucking tornado on 2nd AA boss

grey on grey gl

[paper grove]

Might swap to FB cause it fits my undead pirate transmog better

[keen belfry]

still no gaze for ya boy

GG!

[gaunt phoenix]

noob ?

[keen belfry]

why me?

[glass mortar]

i want awaze.....

agang

[cerulean portal]

https://giphy.com/gifs/nathan-fielder-11mwI67GLeMvgA

[glass mortar]

whens my turn at the bird trinket....

[midnight granite]

loot it nooob

[cerulean portal]

if its only 1% so fk trickster

[old gull]

alleria neck proc good?

[unkempt iris]

i havent even seen it drop once across 4 characters since launch, both heroic and normal 😭

worst season of wow for my loot luck i hate this season's loot pool so much

[wide coral]

I got the goo from chimaerus on my bonus roll madge

[unkempt iris]

i did too...

this week im prob gonna get the belt

[wide coral]

2 more weeks until I can get gaze

got tier last week

atleast the belt has good stats

[strange kelp]

Its probably more in keys where you can just full send due to perma tricks

[cerulean portal]

i want to push 20s :>

yay servers up

[buoyant stratus]

HELP

ITS EVERY PULL

[solid citrus]

we back to fatebound now after the patch?

[radiant wyvern]

assassination role

the dice know your heart is impure

[gaunt phoenix]

trickster is a bit better, but fb is close enough if you like it

[proper crown]

its that easy lil gup

[deep sequoia]

TRUE

[wide coral]

assassination role with subtlety badge

the gods wont favor non believers

[proper crown]

you lose until you win it big

[buoyant stratus]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cerulean portal]

where can i find a very helpful macro for outlaw?

maybe melee class macros

i feel like losing apm when my tank is running a like headless chicken

[gaunt phoenix]

we dont really have macros

cursor grapple

focus kick or w.e

[long bramble]

Bro I play only outlaw I think my dice is broken

I have dungeon where I have only double trouble

Then 1 every 5 keys I have insane streak of jackpot for that key where I do 200k overall

Then my life is dogshit again

And I enter this loop where I reroll on cd cause I m a fucking addict and I have no tea 3 mins into the dung

[burnt sable]

yk sometimes i will get so many bad rolls back to back

when i finally get a good roll i'll just roll over it with 10 seconds left

cause i've already mental boomed

[long bramble]

Bro sometimes it happens that I m rolling that much in a dungeon where I just muscle memory the button in my rotation and I roll over a good roll

And I vote abandon instant

[burnt sable]

i told my group to report me after the dungeon for low rolling

earlier today

[long bramble]

Yesterday I rolled a jackpot into a tier 1

Imagine

Btw tier 1 roll is awful you are just afk for 20 sec

No energy no cps

No hope in humanity

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix

i could sim it but you already have

whats the diff between never kiring a 2

and kiring a 2 if i know i will drop

and how did you sim the kiring a 2 if i know you will drop

if you did sim it

[gaunt phoenix]

should be like 0.5%

[vivid vessel]

for never kiring a 2 right

[gaunt phoenix]

i did like if AR CD is greater than RTB duration * 2

yes

[vivid vessel]

eh

tbf

[gaunt phoenix]

it might have been * 3

[vivid vessel]

i think in pure st you would only really do that kir thing if you legit adr > rtb

and its a 2

otherwise any other scenario you have adr at half duration when you roll its easy to farm it back

but ye

ok

[long bramble]

I mean I m down to kir a 2 in st

[vivid vessel]

im not

idk

i cant decided what i want to do

both feels terrible

[long bramble]

I don’t do it

But I would never in aoe

Like I prefer reset the key

[vivid vessel]

if i only kir 3 or more some pulls i will litteraly get fucked in the asshole and never recover for straight up 5 min

but if you kir a 2 you waste a kir and on the next roll

if its a 3

you dont have time to farm kir back

so you dont extend it

so you also fuck yourself over

i fucking hate this iteration of outlaw

its so bad

[long bramble]

I get what you re saying but I have too much ego

Ngl

[vivid vessel]

also there is litteraly 0 skill expression it makes me mad

[long bramble]

I m not gonna kir a 2 and i will cuck my team for 5 mins

Cause I m braindead

[vivid vessel]

i do the same damage as any random outlaw reroller

this game is ruined no cap

[long bramble]

Idk about that

[vivid vessel]

its true

this season every single outalw player does the same damage x rng

[long bramble]

I play outlaw since df s3 and I can assure you that some people doesn’t have enough iq

[vivid vessel]

in tww i could gap everyone idk it had skill expression

it wasnt easy to play

[long bramble]

I mean it s for sure more flat but I think there is a lil bit of skill expression on fb

[vivid vessel]

ye well all play trickster gg

litteral 0

bm hunter rotation

[long bramble]

I can see it

But I feel this exp pretty much all specs are like this after pruning

The game is way more “flat” you have your stuff to do and you do it

Outlaw at least has this kir thing I m pretty sure some fotm reroller fucks up some kir windows cause they re not confident about cdr

And they roll with 10 sec on kir and 5 on roll

[vivid vessel]

my dps litteraly swing by 40ks on bosses idk

it feels so shit

all rng

0 skill

[long bramble]

I feel this so much

Same boss sometimes 70k sometimes 110k

[vivid vessel]

i do pulls im doing 90k and some im doing 140k

[fathom bramble]

all resting on a single 50/50

[vivid vessel]

like

idk man

its so shit this season

i hate it

[long bramble]

Closed 2nd SR boss today 113k

[fathom bramble]

and maybee ace saves you or makes you go giga

[long bramble]

Just cause I rolled good

[fathom bramble]

but sitting on a 2buff for an entire dungeon boss is just doomed

[vivid vessel]

not even just m+

idk

its the same shit in raid

[ancient cobalt]

whats the rtb wa

my shit is dissapearing man

so lame

[fathom bramble]

it's so evident on lura add damage

sometimees you do literally nothing to theem

other times top of the meter

[thin edge]

is anyone else doing more AoE with Fate build?

[vivid vessel]

^

[thin edge]

I feel like I am since the nerf on smoke

[ionic citrus]

why, are u?

[vivid vessel]

idk man

lok

[thin edge]

only doing it at 12's

[vivid vessel]

do you like this version of outlaw

im getting so bored of it

[thin edge]

so maybe mobs are dying too fast

[vivid vessel]

everything is bad

gameplay isnt engaging

i feel like there is 0 skill expression

[fathom bramble]

I mean you know I don't like KS

[vivid vessel]

energy is shit

and its so rng

[livid smelt]

https://tenor.com/view/girl-spinning-waiting-bored-chair-gif-4180990866247875997

[fathom bramble]

and so far I have basically the same opinion as when we got the rework

[long bramble]

It s the worst I played for sure but if you compare to the other specs i think it still has his thing

A bit tho

[fathom bramble]

it's mostly finee, but I can't have fun playing a stripped down version of outlaw forever

we need something more

[long bramble]

Like I can t play dk or dh I get so bored

[fathom bramble]

and after 1 tier of stripped down law I feel that even moreso than before

[vivid vessel]

ok but thats always been the case

these specs didnt change

they were shit before

still shit

gg

you enjoyed your shit boring gameplay

you still have it

[wintry solar]

I'd argue unholy is almost 1:1 in gameplay

From last expac to now

[fathom bramble]

I mean yeah outlaw is still considerably more fun to play than all other melee

but it could be more fun to play

like if I had to play only warr/pall/dk I would just quit the game instead

[vivid vessel]

same

but idk this season really what irks me the most is that

[gaunt phoenix]

i think the fatebound rule is the sole thing keeping it interesting

[long bramble]

Yeah but I still think we are a step ahead

[vivid vessel]

im not in control of my damage

[long bramble]

I think the whole game got more boring after pruning

Tbh

Skill ceiling is low af

[vivid vessel]

im playing gcd perfect every pull

[long bramble]

On like everything

[fathom bramble]

this version of RTB definitely has the least agency so far

[vivid vessel]

some pulls im doing 10% more damage than 2nd dps

some other pulls im mid

in metter

[long bramble]

If you have a good route you time keys even with monkeys in party

[vivid vessel]

and its driving me crazy

[fathom bramble]

and there is no making the buffs balanced and just riding 2 buff all the time like it could be before

the structure of RTB is designed to have a ton of variance in damage output

[vivid vessel]

i cant believe forums enjoyers complained so much about rtb being rng

that we actually got rtb redesigned

to be more rng

and the most fuck variance shit

we ever had

[long bramble]

1st pull nexus I rolls 2>2>1 and I did tank dmg basically

I prefer by far old system

[vivid vessel]

ye old system wasnt rng

you had bad luck protection with cto

[vivid vessel]

idk man

shit so ass

[long bramble]

Yeah

Df s3 tier set

[ionic citrus]

as someone who play almost all classes this is absolutely true

[long bramble]

Was goated too

You were basically always building up to 6

[ionic citrus]

zac, forever and solo.

the three knights of apocalipse

[fathom bramble]

trying to pick up a new class I swear you are better off just reading the apl

no one has info like the rogue discord

[wintry copper]

[frail veldt]

Bro I don't even trust the apls of some classes

[fathom bramble]

I like to remove random rules that seems annoying

[fathom bramble]

and then see that warr only gains 1.5% from all of their weird micromanaging of rage(at the time)

[vivid vessel]

how come pvp has it

but we dont

im confused

[long bramble]

PvP had it instantly

[vivid vessel]

thats crazy

[long bramble]

Like 1st day of rolls

[vivid vessel]

no wonder my pvp gear is so shit

i handt realized

they are all running 298 weapons

[fathom bramble]

are you trying to get the weapon thing before reset

[long bramble]

And trinkets

[fathom bramble]

because law after the patch is going to be horrible in pvp

[long bramble]

Tbh I played it today

It isn’t horrible

[fathom bramble]

well I guess maybe not horriblee

[long bramble]

It was way overturned now is fine

[fathom bramble]

but dramatically worse than it was last week

[long bramble]

It s not strong but it a not horrible

[fathom bramble]

fair

[vivid vessel]

i mean

[wintry solar]

It's decent, I have confirmed

[vivid vessel]

its getting like 20% nerf no ?

isnt it turbo garbage

[wintry solar]

No

[long bramble]

Bro

It was

[vivid vessel]

brother

[long bramble]

CRAZY Overtuned

[fathom bramble]

it was meta dominating before so

[vivid vessel]

the numbers are too big

[long bramble]

It was completely broken

[vivid vessel]

you cant nerf a spec by 20%

that doesnt exist

there is no way its not turbo garbage now

[twilit axle]

Snuck in a R2 parse on Salad Bar no one else kill the boss until tomorrow kthnx

[long bramble]

It’s 16%

[vivid vessel]

ye same shit

gg

[near rock]

its that easy boys

[long bramble]

And mage and outlaw were legit 1 exp ahead

[wintry solar]

Well it's was extremely OP before and it wasn't a 20 percent aura nerf

[vivid vessel]

ok ots give it to me now

[livid smelt]

it was S+ tier in pvp last week so it felt stupid strong i will admit

[near rock]

i accidentally killed it as sin loot spec too

1 in 4

[long barn]

How hard is it to get the 298 pvp wrap

Wrap

[livid smelt]

not hard

[long barn]

Weapon

[long bramble]

If you queue 3s it s super fast

[livid smelt]

maybe lioke 25-40 games?

[long barn]

Ok

[livid smelt]

probably less

[near rock]

289 plume and alnseer

[vivid vessel]

bro

i did max 10 games

i have almost 2

[long barn]

No shit

[vivid vessel]

i didnt realize

tho i dont have a pvp weapo nso

[long barn]

I didn’t either why the hell di they release it but not pve

[wintry solar]

That'll do it

[long bramble]

I think we have next reset

[long barn]

I don’t have pvp weapon either that’s also 20-30 games?

[burnt sable]

timegating pve is blizz #1 prio

[near rock]

lowrolled my ass off on the kill gg man

[vivid vessel]

i wait nvm i cant even buy a weapon

apparently

[long bramble]

You have to hit the 3rd weekly cap of conquest

[long barn]

Oh what the hell

[long bramble]

Which is 2100 conquest

[long barn]

Ok

[long bramble]

And you get them for free

[livid smelt]

2500 conquest

[long bramble]

They give you token

Tokens

[vivid vessel]

i see

thats a lot of conquest

[livid smelt]

why do you even want them? its not 298 in pve

[long bramble]

Yeah

[long barn]

Why is it not?

[vivid vessel]

so i can continue my pvp adventure

of course its not in pve

tf you mean

are you crazy

[long barn]

I thought it was big tech

[vivid vessel]

ye

never heard before

[long barn]

Hehe

[vivid vessel]

can have 298 weapons

no one said anything

tightly wrapped secret

[long barn]

I mean you can

[vivid vessel]

ye in 2 weeks

[long barn]

Just doesn’t work in pve

[vivid vessel]

guys

if im 274.75

and i increase a ring ilvl by 1 slot thingy

do i get 275

surely right

[random stirrup]

dont think 3 ilvls is .25 but not sure

[fathom bramble]

3 ilvls is 0.1875 average

[vivid vessel]

ok so i need 2 upgrades

crazy !

[fathom bramble]

or 1 upgrade on a two hander

[vivid vessel]

we are not cheating in here

[junior glacier]

is cd manager bugged? keeps removing my roll the bones buff at 20 seconds

[vivid vessel]

ye

^

[fathom bramble]

the buff isn't actually gone just the tracking breaks

[frail veldt]

Can do crate farm

[junior glacier]

ah thanks

[frail veldt]

It's pretty much afk

[vivid vessel]

ye im not a degenerate lil bro

[fathom bramble]

you can get a WA to help track it still if you look at what Zac mentioned

[frail veldt]

Not cut out for pvp eh

[dull ginkgo]

Zac was just watching your vods, you think we’re less bursty from this recent changes?

[vivid vessel]

i mean in theory we are burstier

are we

[dull ginkgo]

Love watching your vods btw 🫡

I actually just wanted to say that

[vivid vessel]

they reduced the uptime on cloud

but we also lost a lot of damage from cloud

[frail veldt]

Our adr is overall weaker though right?

[vivid vessel]

who tf knows !

are we burstier

[frail veldt]

I think it has to be less

[vivid vessel]

are we less bursty !

[fathom bramble]

surely less

[frail veldt]

We do less damage during cloud cover now

[fathom bramble]

we traded damage inside a cooldown for global damage

[frail veldt]

Than we did before

1000%

[dull ginkgo]

1 minus stack of fazed

[vivid vessel]

ok but inside of a cooldown while it was 60% uptime

[frail veldt]

If we did more damage during cloud cover and got a flat 9% we'd be doing more overall

[fathom bramble]

still

[frail veldt]

But we aren't

[vivid vessel]

but you are right they didnt make cloud better

so

[fathom bramble]

obviously we still don't have and never really had reeal burst

but what little we had is now worse

[abstract plover]

!ss

!fuu

[livid smelt]

I Cant tell which spec is better feels like trickster still is better? but hard to test with our rolls XD

[long bramble]

The margin is so low that probably fb could be ahead in some keys

Depends how you play

[nova sinew]

does anyone know how many public logs there need to be for a parse to lock in

[long bramble]

But numbers wise trickster is better

[elfin obsidian]

bruv, my dslice sims 2.9% worse as fb and pure cleave 8 targets even 5.5

[long bramble]

My fb sims like 1.3% lower

Cause on fb you flask crit on trickster you flask haste

Remember that

[elfin obsidian]

yeah i tried it all

[livid smelt]

Ive been flasking crit on trickster

uhohhs

[nova sinew]

i flask crit on the shorter raid fights

[fair charm]

I loaded the rtb m33kaura and raided this evening. It was shocking how many times a good buff would just appear to be gone.

[nova sinew]

and belly

[long bramble]

I mean it s not bad

But haste flask helps a lot with energy in m+

Since trickster struggle a bit

[tough lagoon]

If playing fatebound, dispatch at 5 and bte at 6+ ye?

[long bramble]

Yes

[tough lagoon]

ty ty

[true light]

fatebound feels so much better than trickster lol

[long bramble]

Yeah

But

Perma trick

Is insane too

Tmrw I will try fb too

[crystal granite]

In terms of rotation?

[vapid sundial]

trickster has always felt ass

so no surprise there

[frail veldt]

hmmm

[vivid vessel]

i mean good ring

[wide shore]

prismatic focusing iris is doing like no damage
are sims correct when saying this over void on crafted weapon?

[frail veldt]

yeah my current trinkets are just hella bad

[vivid vessel]

ok bro

[frail veldt]

ill prob take ring

cuz I have the other ring

the 2 set is p good right?

[vivid vessel]

dont take that trinket omegalul

i mean i guess

idk

[frail veldt]

I guess ill eventually get my bis trinkets so its whatever

no reason to not take bis

[hallow spoke]

ring set does like 0.5% for me

[turbid robin]

Eu server is up?

[vivid vessel]

eu server is always up

[frail veldt]

damn

[turbid robin]

🤣

[dull ginkgo]

Baguette

[nova sinew]

belly nerfs are good

[fair charm]

Yeah but part of it is because your likely at or near the haste break point. I would be happier with the set bonus personally.

[fair charm]

I have that trinket and for single target pure it’s okay but I still prefer using stat trinkets. I guess the animation of a dude chucking an axe is cool.

[craggy barn]

@keen belfry

bruh

i had jackpot full aa pull

this is ridic

[vivid vessel]

noob

[peak holly]

Its umbral plume biss on m+ or its better prism?

[vivid vessel]

yes its bis

[peak holly]

ty

[vivid vessel]

eh

is this a curse

or a blessing

we will never know

[indigo hornet]

what should I upgrade first, M crafted ring, M offhand or M solarprism (got 80 crest)

[surreal flower]

8:30 minutes alive btw

[gleaming reef]

Do we even do shadow dmg?

[surreal flower]

[vivid vessel]

nope !

we do if you play fatebound

but im not gonna shit in my food

289 neck is nice and free

[elfin obsidian]

is haste value of 803 sufficient on trickster? its 21.91%

else i gotta swap rings, i.g.

[vivid vessel]

thats a big one !

[unique fulcrum]

any fatebound enjoyers back?

[vagrant kettle]

this talent is always on that or we can switch for more versa? halp

[cerulean portal]

i think versa is good in high keys

like 19+

[vagrant kettle]

thanks u for answer me

[craggy barn]

bruh im so washed wtf

[final pagoda]

r u gonna stick with trickster?

[craggy barn]

im just green parsing constantly todcay

[hollow wind]

myth solar or hc alnseer bonks my self for not doing dream hc

[timid idol]

chill vault head

[frail veldt]

I kinda consider heroic trinkets as throwaway so id almost never tkae it from vault

p sure token is better than heroic trinket

[blissful zinc]

summoned it 😮

[bronze wadi]

I haven't touched outlaw since beta so I'm just now feeling this. Am I alone in hating the rng behind BTE giving you the 6% damage buff

[timid idol]

its fine ish

would be more fine if resets actually refunded points fully

[bronze wadi]

I get there's things you can do to make it more likely and the apex talent helps but getting hosed even then feels trash when in other cases you get like 9 in a row and then not different between getting a 12% buff and a 54% buff was nothing but luck

[timid idol]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

i rolled like 50 resets once on lura bonus damage phase

hit dispatch for like 300k

never checked the log again to see but im fairly sure my bte was 1mil lol

[bronze wadi]

I don't even hate the way it works I just hate the fact there's a straight dmg buff behind it proccing or not

If you had dry spells in crack shot yeah it felt bad but this is just so much worse

[unique fulcrum]

i think its cloak time

[cinder abyss]

is the cloud cover fazed stacks bugged only being a 5s duration instead of 10?

[lusty grove]

ig I’ll stick to outlaw

[wintry solar]

You damn right

10,000 years on the black pearl

[unkempt iris]

that is the change that happened today

[cinder abyss]

yeah i know about the changes to the amount of stacks and the stacking effect (like damage reduction from fazed) and the duration of the cloud cover itself. however the duration of fazed is halved

[heavy willow]

do we play same talents as yesterday for m+ or is there something that changed? wowhead isnt updated

[unkempt iris]

you can play either Fatebound or Trickster now, depends on your preference

Trickster is better by like 1% tho, but sucks when energy starved so pick what you prefer

[naive river]

i wish this granted 5 points

[unkempt iris]

i wish our hero talents got reworked

[fair charm]

hmm that would suck

[weary goblet]

so, any data from NA about Fate vs. Trick in M+?

if its actually only 1% diff, im going fatebound

[unkempt iris]

thats what im doing

just feels so much better

but dont forget that u dont have perma tricks anymore 😛

[weary goblet]

i solo-pugged to 3.4k as Assa, so im used to tricksing xD

[silk stirrup]

This is what it says in the pins but is it actually true?

Sims and real keys are different, not sure what people's experience has been

[unkempt iris]

id give moe time before we see

i did a 17 seat today on FB and it was fine

i can def say trickster will go further in the BIG pulls cuz of KS and fazed stacks

[silk stirrup]

Because you lose a lot of potential burst during big pulls

[unkempt iris]

but for everything else its whatever

i like FB more tho because of the perks for energy, and without talenting KS you get to go sleight of hand without sacrificing acro

[silk stirrup]

Are you playing Prep on FB? Because thinking about it it seems like it would have a lot less value than on trickster, and could perhaps benefit more from more sustain

[unkempt iris]

plus 4 grappling hooks is fun 😼

i dont run prep

has less value in FB as you said

[cinder abyss]

just a shame perma tricks in in trickster.... wish it was in the class tree 🙁

[unkempt iris]

plus it feels awkward to use in m+ anyways personally

thats what im saying

i wish rogue at the very least got the hero talents reworked

[cinder abyss]

that would be nice too tbf

[unkempt iris]

cuz they arent really fun, and they lock you out of great options that we need at abse

like our hero talents are all purely automated, and dont have much "impact" when playing them

its just more stuff to track and thats it

then look at something like rider in dk

[normal violet]

hey guys, are there any log enthusiasts here that can help me determine issue with my M Voracious fight?

[unkempt iris]

literally overhauls you completely

if i wasnt deep into elden ring rn i would ronny

[normal violet]

I'm desperate

[rough oriole]

Why would prep have less value on fb than trickster?

The only difference is that it resets KS

But you don’t care about that

Like at all

[unkempt iris]

prep = more adren rush, more adren rush means more cloud cover in trickster

whereas adren doesnt get buffed from Fb

so it technically does have less value

[rough oriole]

Um no

In FB you dispatch more

And you increase finishers by 20%

When in adr

[unkempt iris]

i mean thats true

[rough oriole]

So that argument can be made

[silk stirrup]

On trickster you get more value out of AR due to smoke bomb

[unkempt iris]

i just think cloud cover is more valuable with prep

the difference is prob so slight tho it doesnt even matter

i just dont run prep cuz its awkward in keys

personally

[rough oriole]

I don’t think you really get more value out of adr for either one honestly they both have their merits

[indigo hornet]

For between the eyes reset, do you just spam it or generate max combo points for each reset

[unkempt iris]

cloud cover def has more value in pulls past our target cap

[unkempt iris]

6-7 combo points always

[rough oriole]

Always finish 6+

[unkempt iris]

heh... six seven...

maybe rogues were doomed all along

[rough oriole]

If that means you have to BTE - SS - BTE

Then so be it

[indigo hornet]

Ahhhh ok ok

[naive river]

its really dumb

why i said i wish ace gave 5

i just want to go PEW PEW PEW

[unkempt iris]

me personally, i think opportunity proc chance needs to be higher

maybe im just unlucky tho (i havent seen a gaze drop once this season)

until today tho 😄

[indigo hornet]

Why we take killing spree, just for the debuff?

[unkempt iris]

fazed and cloud cover

[rough oriole]

It’s for disorienting strikes

Gives us procs of unseen blade

That’s literally it

[indigo hornet]

Ah

[rough oriole]

It’s like entirely useless other than that

[naive river]

i hate how outlaws capstones are all dumb

[unkempt iris]

only thing i like about trickster is that KS is useful, so whenever i press it i can breathe for 3 seconds

[silk stirrup]

I like KiR

[indigo hornet]

Between that and preparation sometime its so much, i seem to forget it exist

[naive river]

KiR is only good because you are useless with a 1 roll

[rough oriole]

It can be. Lot to juggle

You only press it when btw and blade rush are on cd

Bte*

[indigo hornet]

Also for ex prepulling in a dung, do you roll first or adrenaline rush then roll?

[rough oriole]

ADR then roll

You want the loaded dice price

Proc*

[silk stirrup]

You adr pre key

And then roll after bubble ends

[rough oriole]

Don’t roll until the bubble goes down tho

[indigo hornet]

Ohhh

[rough oriole]

!prekey

wtf is the command

There is one

[indigo hornet]

Playing surv to this is been alot lol, surv is like 4 buttons total

[rough oriole]

!prepull

wtf

[unkempt iris]

idr it either xd

i ususally just adren rush before the timer hits

and then you roll the bones after the gold circle dorps

drops*

oh yeah slice and dice before the key starts too

[indigo hornet]

And you guys run acrobatic or the dice talent for dung

[craggy barn]

bot might be dead

!fuu

[unkempt iris]

but thats not as useful

[craggy barn]

its dead

[rough oriole]

Oh yea it’s dead

[unkempt iris]

run FB and u can do both 😄

[rough oriole]

Thank god it’s not me

[unkempt iris]

someone killed moroes...

[rough oriole]

Dice talent for better ring

Rng*

[indigo hornet]

o7

[ancient cobalt]

guyss

outlaw ownss

57 pulls of lura we on top

oh thats boss dam

[unkempt iris]

run dice talent for better rng
double trouble 80+% anyways

[elfin obsidian]

getting perma declined for 10-12's

kekw

sitting in queue for like 30 min now

insanity!

[unkempt iris]

you guys ever hit SS 10+ times and never get an opportunity proc

playing outlaw will bald me i think

[naive river]

my 3400 blood dk gets declined to 10's all the time still. shits wild if you aren't meta

[unkempt iris]

this is the average rogue player's life btw

[craggy barn]

thats the average 12s queue

[unkempt iris]

but man this season has been AWFUL

[elfin obsidian]

0 clue meta slave scums

they rather deplete a key with a warlock who doesnt know what gate is

i see

[shell lark]

You all know the answer for this is doing your own key

[elfin obsidian]

yeah, but im grinding a bonus roll item

😄

[cinder abyss]

yeah then you get to wait 30 mins for a tank haha

[naive river]

rework outlaw to tank spec

#whatiwant

[elfin obsidian]

100%

[cinder abyss]

nty ^ XD

[unkempt iris]

doing your own key doesnt matter

not enough tanks

barely enough healers too imo

[harsh forge]

bros do keys with guardian, 19MC with like 4 dies timed with like 3 min left

[unkempt iris]

and what u get is someone that will brick your 10

[cinder abyss]

4th spec, ok i can get behind that, i just want outlaw to be fixed. not butchered again

[harsh forge]

guardian is a 4th dps rn its busted

[unkempt iris]

y'all hear me out

rogue gets a 4th spec

ok

[naive river]

i want outlaw to go to medium range dual pistol spec or a tank spec hahaha

[normal violet]

and it's a tank spec revolving around getting perma evasion

[unkempt iris]

and its an aug variant, where our poisons cripple enemies so our group does more damage, effectively ebon might

gives aug some room to be balanced too

and also give a buffadin spec similar to aug to pally, boom

[rough oriole]

They rook that from us

Float like a butterfly

[normal violet]

what about a healer who is all about brewing potions and tossing them at players

[fair charm]

Whoever said it above isn't wrong, the Fazed generated by Cloud Cover is only 6 seconds instead of 10 as well. The actual Fazed spell was nerfed too but only the ones generated by Cloud Cover.

[normal violet]

and the skill ceiling is all about making sure you land your potions

[cinder abyss]

then blizzard do the usual, introduce a crap ton of caster mobs 🙂

[manic quartz]

the one character from heroes of the storm

[normal violet]

oh didn't know that was a thing, nice

[manic quartz]

drops diablo potions that you can pick up for healing

[unkempt iris]

nah make a rogue that heals from doing damage, you steal blood and use it to cast healing magic with said blood

prob too late for that train tho since they are trying to gut healer damage

[manic quartz]

blood rogues?

[twilit axle]

I know we just got nerfed but Outlaw feeling nice right now.

[manic quartz]

nerfed by like 1%

[twilit axle]

2% in ST.

But still feeling good. omega fun

[manic quartz]

hey i wasnt expecting the 9% so not complaining

[queen pine]

Any1 noticed problem with bonusroll ? like same loot again?

[languid kestrel]

Yes, like irs ignoring what i got last week

[queen pine]

i got same item on 2 toons... had a 100% bonus roll on gaze and got boots again.
Now same boots on vael on mage.

[novel moth]

u got boots first day?

[weary goblet]

My idea was rogue that stabs and poisons allies.
Even IRL, different ammounts of poison is used as medicine

[swift moon]

!fuu

[queen pine]

Yes on DK yeah, so i understand that.
But i got boots on mage at Vale, and got the same last week lol

[manic quartz]

does fatebound not take 2 points into ace up your sleeve?

[unkempt iris]

the old build isnt updated

so yes u do want to take 2 points

[manic quartz]

do you take a point out of dispatch?

[valid hound]

hey guys, do u think its worth taking the weapon over the crafted one? when simmed and upgraded with crests, its 0.5%

[naive river]

Does your crafted an embellishment?

[valid hound]

yea

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jpm6Z8zcnWtydCG6FC7Qr6

[naive river]

Well you could move that into another piece and take the weapon

[valid hound]

oh sorry mb, i took it off and applied to ring + boots i think

[tulip quarry]

Not the hunt one 🙂

[valid hound]

if my crafted wep is 285lvl, how many crests will i need to upgrade this wep to 289?

[hardy wigeon]

GG shit vault let’s hope I get gaze from extra roll

[cobalt finch]

if you mean that mace from vault then 20

[valid hound]

yeah, thats what i mean

got it, ty :)

[cobalt finch]

But it depends whenever you have both weapons above 285

[river wing]

depends on whether you also have an offhand that's 285

[cobalt finch]

yeah

[valid hound]

offhand is 289 (krick's myth dagger)

[cobalt finch]

if your offhand is 272 then it will take full 100 crests

[river wing]

oh ok, then it's gonna be 20 crests yep

[valid hound]

i guess its a good upgrade then to take the wep from a GV

[ancient cobalt]

yoooi need this

[still matrix]

Idk if worth opening vault as sub or law now if i have 289 dagger

[unkempt iris]

law for sure

[ancient cobalt]

get that law weapon bro

[still matrix]

i have 289 law wep

[unkempt iris]

then it dont matter

[still matrix]

and 289 krycks dagger

[hardy thicket]

Then ???

[still matrix]

ye idek

maybe sub for 2nd dagger

[hardy thicket]

I mean it literally doesnt matter

Well ye ok

[ancient cobalt]

im only missin wrists and pants from pit of saron now i kinda wanna start rollin seat for the head piece try to luck out..

[still matrix]

ill sim if any other law weps are bigger increase from m+ maybe there is a crit/versa one mine is haste/versa from saladar

[hardy thicket]

Ye was about to say

[ancient cobalt]

prob whatever has less weapons if u need other big items tbh

[still matrix]

nah sim says no upgrades from wep

i have myth purloined, and pit cloak from rolling for dagger just havent upgraded yet aha

not enough crestos

[hardy thicket]

My Outlaw is at 279 and at 330 mythic crests this reset. If I get lucky I might just go past my main on ilvl

[still matrix]

hmmm vault think i take helm with leech on it, ori just take myth shoulders and catalyse

[hardy thicket]

Do you have HC shoulders

[still matrix]

ye

the shoulders at 289 are 0.3% upgrade, helm 0.4% realistically i will get shoulders from raid

[cedar bone]

never saw the reroll more

[hardy thicket]

Just pick another bonus roll then and empty pit

If neck is 0,6%

[still matrix]

i guess true

[pallid oyster]

is there a bis list for aoe m+ outlaw this tier?
im curious if a 289 mainhand weapon with bad secondaries is better than a 285 crafted mainhand long term

[craggy barn]

no such bis list

[hardy thicket]

Send an droptimizer in dslice and you'll get a general idea

[valid hound]

what is dslice?

[valid hound]

i also just got the 298 mainhand in vault

[pallid oyster]

mine's haste/mastery heavy but it might be worth the shot

[river wing]

time to finish cleaning out the pit...

wait no, time to go to work :|

[craggy barn]

dungeon slice fight style

[valid hound]

mine's a bit more preferable, crit+vers, but idk

[craggy barn]

LOL

i got kicked from a group so that they could grab a streamer

gdi

[manic quartz]

you used to be someone

[river wing]

hmm
ok I'll clear out the pit this reset
then it's just...Xenas I guess, like legit no point in doing anything else lmao

[normal hawk]

Need that mace

[river wing]

minor MH upgrade, possibly a ring, the other ring is ok for Sub to do world content with...

though there's lots of duds there too, but whatcha gonna do

anyway I've been unusually lucky this season ngl

myth MH second week, BiS helm with socket third week, ez hero Alnseer from weekly

[thorn pumice]

Trickster or fatebound now?!

[river wing]

they're close but technically trickster is ahead

[alpine bloom]

same talents than before?

[cinder abyss]

yea, although the talent tree pinned for fatebound hasnt been updated. you take 2/2 ace

difference between trickster and fatebound is small so its preference i guess

[short plover]

what do you take out for the 2nd point in ace?

[cinder abyss]

i think people were saying before its summarily dispatch

[short plover]

for trickster it is deadly pursuit that you take out

ill play around i guess

[slow granite]

Another week, another week without Gaze

Maybe i'll drop it in Midnight remix, in 5 years

[blissful idol]

Do you at least have heroic

[pine scaffold]

I do not have it either

in normal, hc or mythic

[icy hare]

@fathom bramble congrats on Lura mate! Did you kill before or after outlaw nerfs?

Looks promising for outlaw on that fight so I might get away with playing it over Sub thanks to you 🙏🏼

[fathom bramble]

Before

Law is genuinely good on the fight so you definitely can

[eternal hound]

Hey eu outlaws

Are the changes live

[slow granite]

I dont even have normal..

[blissful idol]

Yes

[blissful idol]

So sorry brother

[frozen basin]

After trickster nerfs is it still worth it or we going fatebound?

[slow granite]

Yea..im pretty unlucky on loots tbf, always had issues with raid raid pieces because i just cant drop em

[hardy wigeon]

Same

I don’t know if it makes it worse but I haven’t even seen it drop in raid lol

[slow granite]

Same dude haha

[hardy wigeon]

Like I didn’t even have a chance to roll for it

[daring yoke]

i saw in the logs, for FB raid cleave, people remove 1 ace for 1 sleight. is it really worth?

[river wing]

doubtful

like really doubtful

that just cripples ace

and sleight is good but not that good

[daring yoke]

true. i feel like theres a noticeable difference between 1 or 2 ace

[river wing]

(tbh if you wanted to do something like that for sleight, just drop summdispatch)

[daring yoke]

cool thanks. will experiment

[jolly geyser]

Coin vault for me, 1 time this expansion I believe

[tulip warren]

After the nerfs for Trickster what specc does perform the best in m+ now? Still trick?

[heavy shard]

check pin comment

its really close within 1% difference

[tulip warren]

ow lol ty! 🙂

[uneven terrace]

Do we play fb with 1 or 2 points in ace up your sleeve?

[inland acorn]

2

[uneven terrace]

And preparation ?

[inland acorn]

We play it in all builds

[uneven terrace]

Ok

[inland acorn]

Though you can drop it if you dislike it. It will be dps loss though

[novel slate]

i got a question since it feels like i'm doing something wrong. which builder do I use to get to 6+cp (trickster):

• at 5 CP with one opportunity proc
• at 5 CP without any opportunity proc
  maybe I am misunderstanding the faq/guide

[inland acorn]

Sinister strike for both situations

You would PS at 5cp only if you had 6 opp stacks

[unkempt dew]

I finally got the mythic track skyreach trinket in my vault today

Its weird but 285 crafted boots sims higher then a 289 solar trinket

[inland acorn]

Main stat gains probably

[unkempt dew]

Hmm

[lusty grove]

Also idk how it will work but you will be able to make it 298 next week

[unkempt dew]

I think ill go with the trinket max item level

[inland acorn]

Depends what boots and trinkets you have too

[unkempt dew]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qeBZcoGGzUjUL9JocBorhd

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/763rkegycXGbNosVtfsbcq

im at work so i use the droptimizer

[opal badger]

I managed to sneak into hc crown before reset

I parsed 48 but got 98 on ilvl

So I think i did good

[inland acorn]

I mean if you can craft then ye go with trinket

[silk latch]

What’s the build with fb for m+ then ?

[inland acorn]

Check #outlaw-faq builds section

[topaz bough]

wtf outlaw buff go from 5% to 9%?

[inland acorn]

Should be under trickster

[silk latch]

Just feels bad to lose sleigh of hand

[inland acorn]

You can drop 1 point from summairly dispatched if you want it, though I think it will be small dps loss

[topaz bough]

Zac is God?

I heard the news too late.

[blissful gate]

https://tenor.com/view/how-do-we-tell-him-mr-krabs-spongebob-meme-spongebob-meme-gif-24063814

[unkempt dew]

I only have enough for a max upgrade or max level crafted boots. I can’t do both sadly

[inland acorn]

then idk, don't think there's wrong answer here

Both upgrades are pretty much same, pick whichever you feel like

[polar niche]

guys better try to highroll on nexus point for the weapon

or better continue on pit?

[inland acorn]

How are you so low on myth crests though, your gear doesn't look like you spent that many so far in this season

[polar niche]

(already 3 pieces of pit)

[opal badger]

Pit also has dagger

You most likely still want crafted main hand

[inland acorn]

NP weapon is minor if you have crafted 285 MH

[polar niche]

i already have dagger legs and braces

from pit

[inland acorn]

Ring and neck are good still then

[opal badger]

I have ring and neck

Together we have everything

[polar niche]

outlaw hug

[inland acorn]

You don't have belt

bozos

[polar niche]

adamantine sharpening stone

is good on main hand>?

[opal badger]

I'll get while failing roll on gaze

[inland acorn]

[livid sand]

Outlaw still #1 for raid & m+? 😄

[opal badger]

Need to ask if I can join on alt on myth dreamrift

[polar niche]

i take the gaze myth this morning

[unkempt dew]

I havent done much mythic runs

[inland acorn]

Well, then you can technically get both upgrades no ? Just need to run some extra m+

[unkempt dew]

And crafted head piece and MH

[unkempt dew]

True true

[inland acorn]

Chop chop

Skyreach 12min runs

[opal badger]

Trinket is not real

I got puzzlebox from first AA tho

[hasty warren]

hi pirates

[rocky stratus]

hi, srry to bother, the "new" outlaw build should look like this?

[trim harbor]

for me fatebound sims lower still

[inland acorn]

yes

[upper roost]

what spec you think will be the best just deciding what spec to take out vault

[south crypt]

We still sim dungeon slice right?

[inland acorn]

yes