zac
#outlaw
vagrant kettle
snow stratus
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hybrid pecan
I actually don't mind trickster being better in raid and fb in M+. It's always better and healthier when both hero talents have their uses and content each excels at rather than one of the two being completely dominant
warped spruce
Why is there hate from others in the post? Someone saying "buff them by 20%, im still not inviting them" and a few others.. I don't get why hate? We were not even meta?
wide shore
sorry I'm OOL, what is the crit-damage stacking effect that people have been mentioning? for cloud cover?
vivid vessel
top left trickster talent node
builder crit damage or whatever
this week its stacking with the fazed thing stacking
which is apparently not intended
cinder relic
Why is there hate from others in the post? Someone saying "buff them by 20%, i...
Idk probably just a meme
wide shore
thanks for the buffs @vivid vessel
smoky grotto
i’ll go fb, trickster gameplay is wierd sometime
barren slate
sup guys, i'm new with rogue, the 9% buff tomorrow can put us in the biggest meta?
river wing
sup guys, i'm new with rogue, the 9% buff tomorrow can put us in the biggest met...
no
it's not a buff
it's a very slight nerf actually
bc it's to offset the current hero tree being nerfed by like 10%
hot night
doesn't that mean it's just a straight buff for fatebound then
river wing
yes, but actually no
FB was behind 13%
which means it comes closer, but it's still not the better of the two
hot night
gotcha
shell fossil
do we get crest cap unlock this week?
river wing
doesn't look like it
river wing
IIRC the unlock is like
at week 10? maybe even 12 for previous seasons
likely in 2 weeks tho
limpid acorn
crest uncap isnt just gonna randomly appear, it might be in .7 patch
but that shit is like a month away
formal veldt
Where can I find useful macros for outlaw?
fathom bramble
!macro
ornate heathBOT
Why don't we macro trinkets to abilities?
- You want to use trinkets while BtE is active, but you can't macro them to BtE, as breaking vanish with a trinket will cause Subterfuge to not activate, so Vanish > BtE macro could fail.
- Trinkets are your only on demand burst damage, you sometimes want to hold it for specific mobs or vulnerability windows.
- You usually don't want to send it on a dying mob.
fathom bramble
guess we don't have any in that command
@ cursor grapple is really good and a borderline must have imo
not much else matters
dull ginkgo
lean flax
is it still a nerf if the crit stacking still works with faze stacks?
hybrid pecan
Where can I find useful macros for outlaw?
There aren't any
fathom bramble
@vivid vessel
hybrid pecan
Specific macros for outlaw
gaunt phoenix
fathom bramble
zac prob asleep or what
round stump
damn I was j7ust watrching that
river wing
<@352916297262301194>
whew
outlaw wf?
round stump
small world
fathom bramble
other laws def got it first I think
happens when law is actually good
since 2 day guild doesn't exactly kill it as fast as some others
zealous plinth
U think with newest tuning, trickster still gonna be ahead?
fathom bramble
yes
zealous plinth
We have any Numbers yet?^^
zealous plinth
We have any Numbers yet?^^
Nvm pin
frail veldt
U think with newest tuning, trickster still gonna be ahead?
it will still be close
the change from 5 to 9 doesnt really change the info in the pin
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194>
Huge !
Maybe I kill tomorrow (huge cope)
Otherwise I get it next raid day
Thursday
How long to kill once you got to P3 a few times
Feels like P3 isn't that hard but idk
We already did like 3/4 decent P3 so I'm thinking boss kinda dies if you manage to get everyone out of P3 alive
I wanna kill the boss so I can get my beloren trinket 
fathom bramble
p3 is the easiest phase by far
p4 is kind of free too, but you need people to actually be hyperfocused on the left-right-left
or you can randomly lose people to someone not paying enough attention...
vivid vessel
p3 is the easiest phase by far
Ye that's what I felt aswell
That + once you did all the soak + dodge constellation+ do minigame+pizza slice
It's the same thing again
So it's once and done kinda
fathom bramble
like I have crystal in the phase for the whole time so idk what people do with the soak
or how easy that feels
vivid vessel
p4 is kind of free too, but you need people to actually be hyperfocused on the l...
Ye I'm scared
fathom bramble
but crystal commander is just moving to soak and not standing in thing
vivid vessel
like I have crystal in the phase for the whole time so idk what people do with t...
Idk feels easy to me
Timer isn't tight
Kinda chill
- you skip the last one with DPS right
vivid vessel
Nice
covert harness
btw on trickster, if you're forced to move out of the fart circle, you basically lose damage right?
gaunt phoenix
No bc the cloud is bugged
the cloud cover buff will refresh on you whether you are in the cloud or not
covert harness
hm, so playing around it is not that much mandatory
idk, trickster as a hero tree confuses me
dusty magnet
@vivid vessel btw how do u get miniboss to glitch over platform in acad
vivid vessel
They fixed it insta i think
dusty magnet
f
red grove
How we looking with the new changes now instead of a 6-7% nerf
gaunt phoenix
small nerf st, the same aoe, trickster still slightly ahead, maybe pick fatebound if you prefer it
red grove
So still a nerf just slightly less
proven surge
So we just gotta accept that we'll get nerfed ig
tender breach
@solo or @zac for fatebound I kinda prefer the initial build without prep. And 2 points Ace 1 dispatcher. Is it ok?
gaunt phoenix
its fine
stone cradle
I have no idea what that is supposed to say
atomic bear
we ended up getting a 2% nerf against the 5% devourer but our nerf was supposed to be zero
keen belfry
we mid
livid pewter
and we still love to play the spec
cinder relic
Try again in english this time
topaz pulsar
Thanks good luck yall
covert harness
actually ur sentence made 0 sense
keen belfry
youve said bye 3 times
topaz pulsar
actually ur sentence made 0 sense
lol
livid pewter
is he gone now?
covert harness
i mean, don't get offended, read it outloud.
keen belfry
hes typing again MAN
cinder relic
Leave bro
livid pewter
keen belfry
he said bye 3 times
cinder relic
God damn
covert harness
livid pewter
anyone telling him this sentence is weird too?
keen belfry
Is outlaw now number one of the reason he midtier gsrbage rogue
livid pewter
he might be gone anyways nvm
random stirrup
Is outlaw now number one of the reason he midtier gsrbage rogue
long bramble
Is outlaw now number one of the reason he midtier gsrbage rogue
foggy needle
Is outlaw now number one of the reason he midtier gsrbage rogue
trim kettle
Is outlaw now number one of the reason he midtier gsrbage rogue
tender breach
do u know if raidbots have implemented the changes to run some sims? (and I think I pick nightly right?)
*has
covert harness
livid pewter
so since we gettin a 9% aura buff and trickster got kinda nerfed
i guess FB is almost even in dps? even tho its more comfy to play
cursive hamlet
check pinned, it's like pretty even in m+, but still behind in raid
long bramble
Is outlaw now number one of the reason he midtier gsrbage rogue
livid pewter
aight, ill see tomorrow anyways when we have final results of the impact
livid pewter
Is outlaw now number one of the reason he midtier gsrbage rogue
no but outlaw Is now number one of the reason he midtier gsrbage rogue
cursive hamlet
Is outlaw now number one of the reason he midtier gsrbage rogue
wintry copper
livid pewter
I think he s trying to wish me death
somehow, the cutest deathwish i have ever seen
long bramble
somehow, the cutest deathwish i have ever seen
Bro I blushed
covert harness
bro can't even deathwish properly
pliant orbit
But idk
I thought he was wishing you had multiple dice. So like you would never get rtb 1
pliant orbit
Why is it that you want others to die because they like playing a class that is currently bad?
wintry solar
People usually reserve that for when a class is OP
covert harness
bud, i aint accepting ur friend request. move on, take ur L @topaz pulsar
foggy needle
bud, i aint accepting ur friend request. move on, take ur L <@229078749323198464...
Is outlaw now number one of the reason he midtier gsrbage rogue
long bramble
funny thing
its 7 am for me
<@422204023593238530> so its 6 h diff to 7
u kno...
Is outlaw now number one of the reason he midtier gsrbage rogue
livid pewter
Is outlaw now number one of the reason he midtier gsrbage rogue
yes
wintry solar
dim parrot
radiant dock
all things considered, i think outlaw is now number one of the reason he midtier gsrbage rogue
frail veldt
wat
unkempt dew
Did we win?
worthy ice
I think 6 or 7 buff would be enough
clear tulip
build to 6 7
fair charm
I’m sorry but I prefer 6 or 9 combo points. I’m old.
random stirrup
galactic level cope
nah but i was on the warpath
i told our mage whos on outlaw for keys atm that we dont get the mage/dk style treatment it isnt getting monday night buffed
and now look at me
a fraud
frail veldt
anyone got an "in range" indicator weak aura?
cinder relic
galactic level cope
Cope works Noob
I will use this one instance to prove ti always be a truther
random stirrup
nah but i am getting mogged by guy in every way this tier
grave atlas
!sim
buoyant stratus
Well slow dowb
We'll see just how removed it is...
Imagine its just smoke
Outlaw to the moon
random stirrup
moob
buoyant stratus
Male kultiran
keen orbit
Still the same changes to outlaw or did we get some good news?
cinder relic
It could have been my tweet!
cinder relic
nah but i am getting mogged by guy in every way this tier
Except with gear
keen orbit
So now its only a 2% nerf or?
cinder relic
Yep
daring yoke
guys i think this is the first time im happy we getting a 2% nerf. blizz mind gamed us
tough trellis
so are we gonna go back to fatebound?
daring yoke
It's like a 1% diff now so
if we cant consistently getting smoke uptime in raid cleave, would that make it closer to FB?
clear tulip
smoke has been refreshing itself even if you leave cloud
cinder relic
Yeah
daring yoke
The smoke refreshes itself when it goes away
oh wwtf...
hardy thicket
I mean if it requires you to actually stand in it and refresh it manually
agile orchid
outlaw definitely deserves that 2% nerf 
clear tulip
perma tricks in keys felt good
gleaming reef
I hate smoke. So hard to see shit that are avoidable in it.
Eg mythic crown swirlies
fathom bramble
Fairness
main radish
did they rly listen to feedback?
fathom bramble
They didn’t state a reason of course
But we can assume they realized via feedback or otherwise that the nerf was not warranted
Probably feedback
craggy barn
enough feedback, and probably zac's post showing that their math wasnt correct
fair charm
I hate smoke. So hard to see shit that are avoidable in it.
If you turn particle effects to low, it ain’t too bad. Just remember to put it back up if you do other stuff like prey else you can’t see the red riposte shadow and stuff like that.
main radish
finally
wintry solar
Like in TWW Death and Decay cleave stuck around after it disappeared for its correct duration.
It could also be they just don't have the tech down just yet or they think it's fine
Prolly the second
night pendant
It’s really sad that every time they just balanced by changing auras.
Just by comparing the changes, every time rogue received just a little content.
I was wondering what makes them hate, or at least neglect the rogue that much.
craggy barn
when they ahve to give attention to 40 specs some will fall through the cracks
esp less popular ones
night pendant
I remember starting the game back in 8.0.
As a new player, with the whole pirate theme going on, Outlaw didn’t just feel strong — its roleplay and class identity were incredibly captivating.
But look at it now… what’s even left of that?
craggy barn
u can assume a bunch of other things
like less passion / desire to work on rogue as opposed to other specs
old shore
I can't find any reference to the 5% -> 9% buff, even on the linked article, where is the info confirmed ?
cedar bone
@vivid vessel i love you so fkin much
gusty dew
smoky grotto
hi, do u guys know the macro to setup a focus target with a specific symbol plz ?
cinder relic
I remember starting the game back in 8.0.
As a new player, with the whole pira...
Dice tumbleweed and guns
worthy spindle
4 more
Can this help us ??
craggy barn
give us a horse
cinder relic
Outlaw is just sort of an amalgamation of a lot of "spinoff rogue specs" from a lot of different RPGs
It's kind of its own thing
It doesn't need to be a coyboy, or a pirate
night pendant
An 8-yard cleave range — apparently reduced so all melee have to “stay close.”
Adding anti-stealth — supposedly to avoid “restricting class choice.”
Meanwhile, what exactly are all these Unholy DKs trading off for what they have now?
They’ve got absurd range, strong group defensives, and insane damage.
So what’s the downside, exactly?
Why does Blizzard seem so intent on pushing everyone toward a spec that feels this boring?
cinder relic
Is this ai
craggy barn
well, it plays off the rogue-ish characters that aren't all assassiny stealth folk
like the defias bandits/pirates
valid hound
hey guys, did we get a new tuning (new pin), we're good?
fresh acorn
--
night pendant
Is this ai
yeah… asking ai to fix the grammar
cinder relic
Just type
night pendant
Sometimes it just make players feel depressed
uneven terrace
You guys think that assa will be the best Specc after the patch ?
uneven terrace
I have a lot of fun with all 3 speccs XD
night pendant
Outlaw was quite fun though…
cinder relic
Still is!
fluid meadow
these comments are just hate lol
peeps just wanna play spec with less effort and do tons of dps, outlaw is hard to them and they are frustrated if they lose against us, so they hate us.
night pendant
True
I don’t mind if outlaw is not the best, but just want it to be more fun, and in the same time, not put my friend in a difficult position
craggy barn
how does playing outlaw put ur friend in a difficult position
patent mirage
oh well
tough trellis
how does playing outlaw put ur friend in a difficult position
my friends are in a difficult position when they are playing retpally uhdk and losing to an outlaw rogue
real or real
night pendant
These two specs are truly boring
tough trellis
im mainly just kidding im not the guy saying the dififcult position part, ive been hooked on nte for the last couple of days and havent touched wow
night pendant
And that’s not even reasonable, if you are not a wow player, does anyone straight forward think pally should be something , shining and turning around everyday
cinder relic
What
compact zealot
what
tough trellis
what
cinder relic
Lol ur good
night pendant
In China we called them, “light bulb Electric Fan”
night pendant
True
unkempt dew
Are we meta yet?
craggy barn
no
craggy barn
sure
cinder relic
Enough
keen orbit
What makes fatebound more appealing to people?
unkempt dew
No KS
cinder relic
What makes fatebound more appealing to people?
It has a bunch of passive energy regen, and no KS
inner yacht
What makes fatebound more appealing to people?
you make 5 cp with buttons and spend 5 cp with dispatch
so it just flows better
keen orbit
coins come out ur ass
Im sold
icy token
Yeah for me the 6 CP spending in Trickster is what is pulling me back to fate
cinder relic
I think the whole thing about Rogue identity, and general popularity is a bit of a hard one either way
I think while rogue is very unpopular, I've never been really bothered by this fact. I've enjoyed Rogue for years, and genuinely have enjoyed a lot of different versions of the entire class.
If rogue was truely degraded in design to "just have mass appeal" like BM/Ret I probably wouldn't have as much fun as I do playing my character in dungeons, even when the tuning could be better
craggy barn
100% agree with u there guy
vague tundra
one of the outlaw's spell alert graphics is in smack middle of the screen.. anyone know how to modify it? its directly on my main target most of time.
pliant orbit
I think the whole thing about Rogue identity, and general popularity is a bit of...
Based as always
craggy barn
one of the outlaw's spell alert graphics is in smack middle of the screen.. anyo...
the best u can do is reduce the opacity
vague tundra
sigh.. we need a addon where you can make your own graphics for buffs/debuffs, etc.. lets call it workauras..
daring turret
I loved and mained Rogue for many years, doing quite well in terms of logs in previous expansions.
But then i went to the dark side, and i find it really hard to go back to Rogue. TWW was in my mind very harsh, especially for Outlaw which i loved the most.
green star
M33kAuras is Weak auras but much more limited
Might be able to do what you want with it
cinder relic
I dont even mean like, "ret paladin bad"
I love ret paladin
but I'm glad ret is ret, and rogue is rogue
daring turret
I feel that so many things that were nice with Rogue earlier is no longer needed or wanted. Like posions, shroud, ST stuns, none of these unique things dont even matter anymore.
mellow dagger
8 sec stun good on sky reach last boss tho
tender breach
does anyone know if topgear - raidbots has implemented the changes to run a few sims? the EU reset is tommorow
sacred mirage
Is Outlaw back? 9% seems big.
inner yacht
Is Outlaw back? 9% seems big.
its a nerf
9% is compensation and doesnt fully cover it
sacred mirage
Will Fatebound be competitive now? Since it seems like all the nerf went to trickster talent, so huge buff for fate here.
mellow dagger
Pin says yes
silent edge
9% Will net you basically on par with what you have right now pre CC nerf, which is pretty strong
valid hound
so basically its a 1-2% nerf for us overall
craggy barn
yes
tender breach
hmm I dont know if changes are implemented but for me fatebound sims 10% lower in DS
bitter forge
so basically its a 1-2% nerf for us overall
and a 17% nerf in PvP
craggy barn
panic post AWC nerf
valid hound
and a 17% nerf in PvP <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
ouch
i saw some clips from awc
outlaw smashing
bitter forge
nerf was def needed but feel like its too much
but hopefully im wrong and we'll see on reset
craggy barn
i mean, the only reason to do such a heavy handed nerf is to force a meta shift
rather than try and find a mathematically appropriate balance solution, easier to slap it hard and see the shift directly
cinder relic
Outlaw is very good in pvp
light mountain
is the rtb tracker on cdm buggy on anyone else for pals?
it dissapears for like 10s at a time then reappears
rinse and repeat the entire fight
craggy barn
yea known bug
light mountain
tyty
craggy barn
i think making it a bar keeps it showing?
light mountain
thru cdm?
craggy barn
yea
idk i remember @cinder relic saying that at one point, but i could be completely mis remembering the context there
steel shadow
so basically its a 1-2% nerf for us overall
1-2% isnt anything to be upset about esp with ilvl increases coming i think zac saved outlaw
steel shadow
without closing the channel no less
valid hound
im considering switching to fb
maybe with ilvl increase we get to get it close to trickster
keen orbit
Is it viable to play fatebound without vigor and thistle tea?
light mountain
Is it viable to play fatebound without vigor and thistle tea?
💀
keen orbit
Haha ok
valid hound
do u guys gather anymore sparks of radience? i guess not really needed anymore
runic gulch
i think making it a bar keeps it showing?
Mine’s a bar and it disappears still
craggy barn
good to know
craggy barn
such a weird bug
runic gulch
Like had to rewatch stream to make sure I hadn’t just forgotten to RtB in opener
Can actually pinpoint the moment on my face where I wonder if I’ve gone insane
inland acorn
I feel like its bugging out a lot more in raid than m+, but might just be coincidence
hollow bloom
i actually got my dice disappear the other pit i was in the first time. i was so confused, but then it magically reappeared a couple secs later.
river wing
I feel like its bugging out a lot more in raid than m+, but might just be coinci...
I feel like there's some trigger that makes it start happening, bc at first dice would stay up normally
then a few pulls or a dungeon later they start bugging out
craggy barn
its gotta be spaghetti code from count the odds
mellow dagger
Can anyone link zacs post that changed blizzards mind
frail veldt
I think it's some other timer expiring and causing it to be hidden
Like when you adr over an LD buff or something
inland acorn
Can anyone link zacs post that changed blizzards mind
river wing
192 likes
that'd be 80% of outlaw population
hollow bloom
no blue post response. devs are cowards!
river wing
eh
let them sit on it for a bit
we might actually get one perhaps?
hollow bloom
i would appreciate anything at this point. even a reaction emote from them.
mellow dagger
Powerful. I was moved to tears
rough leaf
298 is next reset not tomorrow right?
river wing
yeah
tender wedge
192 likes
that'd be 80% of outlaw population
More like 180%, seems sus
wintry solar
no blue post response. devs are cowards!
They probably nerf us out of spite because of this 
zenith sparrow
when bte proc but u only get 5 combo do u send it or do u weave a strike in?
zenith sparrow
same for dispatch?
mellow dagger
i thought them giving us cloud cover as a new toy in the first place was a nice gesture
bonus points for other people being able to see it and be griefed by it for a bit
mighty pivot
Killing your entire melee stack so that you can top DPS was the best buff
wintry solar
All this showed me was people don't actually want smoke bomb back in pvp
Pve
Excuse me
river wing
I think the whole thing about Rogue identity, and general popularity is a bit of...
the thing is that it's less about huge mass appeal
and more about...idk, design not feeling like it has a dozen minor issues that all compound to a worse building/gameplay experience
i.e. for current outlaw there's a bunch of small design holes
- Cut to the Chase not applying to BtE as well as Dispatch
- Apex not stacking with non-Dispatch finishers, meaning Ace delays apex for no reason
- AR requiring 20% haste to grant its full effect
- general energy regen also requiring 20%+ haste AND all energy talents to not feel miserable
- Ace reset not always giving enough CP to optimally smash BtE again
- RtB not feeling fully functional even at 2 (because if you only roll 2s with LD, you're bound to roll non-LD and get 1oaK sometimes)
- capstones being kinda fucky with KiR feeling mandatory and the rest being highly optional at best
- an entire branch of the tree is dead (HO stuff)
mighty pivot
fast action 
wintry solar
I agree with 8, 7, 6, and 3. Capstones rn are really rough
mental venture
Bte refunding 6 cp would be amazing
mighty pivot
5 would be enough
mental venture
If we are wishing thinking might as well be a little greedy
spare dome
HO with ambush on different bind was peak outlaw
mighty pivot
Tell us about db popo. Go ahead you are itching
tall sundial
What will be the difference between Fb and Trickster after the patch?
mighty pivot
pins
tall sundial
in dps i mean
lost condor
So outlaw is buffed now ?
sturdy tartan
wintry solar
Tell us about db popo. Go ahead you are itching
Naw
Separate bind HO just wasnt peak outlaw
Das all
wintry solar
let me rephrase that, peak for me(when i played wow)
Ohhh yeah
That's valid then
It was pretty good then
silent edge
Solo’s pin post on tuning takes into account the assumption that crit stacking from Cc Will die too right? So in case it doesent, We Will be looking quite solid come tomorrow
agile orchid
does fatebound still play preparation in m+?
elfin obsidian
guys, with flask + oil i reach 24,98% haste. my sim still wants more... do i really want more haste than that?
for m+
i sim dungeon slice, latest
mighty pivot
Solo’s pin post on tuning takes into account the assumption that crit stacking f...
If that isn't gone it won't be intentional and it will be removed eventually
They make it clear in the explanation that they want to remove that behaviour
tired pasture
hello, new to outlaw, how are we supposed to use "preparation"? is it send it right after putting AR, BTE, BR, BF & KS? or do we wait until the previous AR has 1-2 sec left and then send preparation?
silent edge
I guess you are right
silent edge
hello, new to outlaw, how are we supposed to use "preparation"? is it send it ri...
After AR BR and BTE. KS doesent matter i Think
tired pasture
clear, thank you
arctic hollow
After AR BR and BTE. KS doesent matter i Think
Oh i'v been trolling then, and i wondered why it felt so bad to have two KS in my pull AR
glass quartz
the dps diff between prep / no prep will shrink a little bit after the upcoming chages right?
haughty wigeon
the thing is that it's less about huge mass appeal
and more about...idk, design ...
- killing spree should do prio damage
- ar haste % should be increased damage not reduced gcd to encourage haste stacking. which also makes ks channel lower
- vanbish back on restless blades
$) bte capstone, should make bte pierce armor - rmvoe the ho capstone for something else
- prep should be 2 charges on everything or atleast adr/br
shell fossil
y'know at 30 field acolades for a 15 minute event it'd take 16 clears to get enough for a random piece of hero gear
this seems really not cooked
river wing
y'know at 30 field acolades for a 15 minute event it'd take 16 clears to get eno...
can't you can get more than 30? p sure t5s with 8 challenges should give more
shell fossil
for the void incursion only
i guess with the tiered difficulty stuff it'll clear way faster than that
it's definitely good for people who can't solo t8s
halcyon chasm
Got 110 accolades today in t5 8 challenges. We didn't clear everything
zinc briar
wow
halcyon chasm
It was about 20 min
zinc briar
they reverted the nergf
shell fossil
yeah if you can't solo a t8 delve for whatever reason it's sturdy to get people caught up
halcyon chasm
Might've been faster solo
hollow bloom
i mean, its so easy to get myth gear now. herioc gear through assaults and ritual sites is a plus.
shell fossil
is it 1/6 hero gear? cause that's 6/6 champ innit
river wing
5/6 champ
grim steppe
they reverted the nergf
where did you see that
elfin obsidian
@vivid vessel dude, how are u running 830 haste... 😄 im at 933 and it literally says thats what i want dungeon slice wise. am i simming wrong?!
snow vessel
No someone gave me this picture and I loved it
shell fossil
haha nice
snow vessel
My dogs are in my banner
zinc briar
where did you see that
grim steppe
tyvm
bronze badge
Its 9% damage or 5% patch?
twilit topaz
elder sonnet
Proud of us for doing that
Was this the loudest we’ve ever reached in the outlaw community?
Blizzard probably saw the post and were like “fascinating, people play this spec?”
hollow bloom
feel like its just a bandaid for an overarching issue of the class all together. but baby steps i guess.
tropic zephyr
Rare blizzard W
smoky grotto
Blizzard probably saw the post and were like “fascinating, people play this spec...
which post ?
novel isle
Got bigger problem,how to find motivation to do m+ for vault
Aim higher, Im aiming for all +15s
find something that you want to acchive
hollow bloom
yaaaaa, dad guild is falling apart. they are having trouble with herioc difficulty now....
so doing M+ for vault is less appealing.
tropic zephyr
Blizzard probably saw the post and were like “fascinating, people play this spec...
What seems weird to me is that the second take with the 9% buff looks like they actually crunched the numbers to get the right value to offset the nerfs
So was the initial plan to nerf the spec, or they just slapped a random 5% ability buff, not looking the overall results?
livid pewter
ima telling you, if people realize that bringing up some facts in the forum helps their class, they gonna overload with complains now
jolly geyser
That just depends if blizz wanna listen
worthy spindle
So combine with this 9%dmg buff
Should we consider this class tuning is a buff or nerf ??
hollow bloom
That just depends if blizz wanna listen
"We heard you loud and clear, now here is a cinematic with a rogue for HOUSING"
unkempt dew
https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/eu-en/618142-class-tuning-incoming-6-may/
Is rogue the only spec that does not get any notes?
arctic hollow
So overall we're losing the stacking DR in the cloud, that's rough
arctic hollow
So combine with this 9%dmg buff
Should we consider this class tuning is a buff o...
Thechnicly a nerf to trickster but a buff to outlaw cause we can switch back to Fatebound
jaunty rose
trickster was a 13% increase over fatebound, so not entirely
agile orchid
Thechnicly a nerf to trickster but a buff to outlaw cause we can switch back to ...
Numbers wise a nerf
frozen basin
I need yall guys help. I kinda got into playing rogue in pve due to shindig. Fell in love with sub and how easy it is to play and tested a bit around with assa. Im probably gonna exchange my main (ret pally) in the raid with rogue. Now the question: I wanna play m+ and raid and from what ive seen outlaw performs really well in both i am geared for sub now though. Do you think its worth to just make the swap? As far as i can see sub has some bosses it outperforms all. Assa is good on aoe and dominates Vanguard. But outlaw is present on ALL bosses in the top dps and outperforms aoe on most bosses except vanguard-assa. I would need to farm a main hand or craft one and figure the spec out but do you think its worth making that investment change to be less worried about changing specs around and being able to push higher keys?
agile orchid
Mental wise a buff
livid pewter
"We heard you loud and clear, now here is a cinematic with a rogue for HOUSING"
if it catches me like the cinematics they created for earlier expansion, im totally fine with that lmao
but their quality just went downhill, i mean just check out League… they do such stuff to catch people even if they hate the game the have to love it
jaunty rose
I need yall guys help. I kinda got into playing rogue in pve due to shindig. Fel...
buddy, no one picks outlaw for this reason. It's a poor mental state that picks outlaw
frozen basin
i got one of those too
opal raptor
ima telling you, if people realize that bringing up some facts in the forum help...
Just need @vivid vessel to keep churning out well-written forum posts until we’re meta.
bronze badge
With 9% its buff finnaly no?
jolly geyser
Smol nerf
livid pewter
I need yall guys help. I kinda got into playing rogue in pve due to shindig. Fel...
pick outlaw if you love it, if u were a high end raider u wouldnt even ask for opinion i guess
so just play whatever u like to even if its not top tier for your content
plush hornet
No its aboout 2% dps nerd
plush hornet
I want to kiss <@352916297262301194> on his hot French mouth
Me too
livid pewter
With 9% its buff finnaly no?
na, but we can at least do more dps than meta tanks
if we have full phys comb
if tank is playing around us
if healer pumps and we dont drain energy in defensives
if every other dps is not minmaxing
limpid sky
I need yall guys help. I kinda got into playing rogue in pve due to shindig. Fel...
I would try outlaw and see if you like it!
wintry solar
I need yall guys help. I kinda got into playing rogue in pve due to shindig. Fel...
If regearing to outlaw isn't too rough on your part, go for it. No reason not to if you think it's fun.
plush hornet
I need yall guys help. I kinda got into playing rogue in pve due to shindig. Fel...
You need to know that is not easy spec like sub
frozen basin
do you have rough stat values i wanna shoot for?
static crescent
meta tanks? plural?
frozen basin
i am on the higher end of crit already due to 12.05 sub changes
wintry solar
Haste until a little over 20% then go crit
limpid sky
meta tanks? plural?
the brewmasters and the voices in their head
plush hornet
You need to know that is not easy spec like sub
Its not that boring like sub tho
wintry solar
A lot of people feely craft the haste
frozen basin
cause going after guides like wowhead can be deceiving just like on ret
lavish siren
cause going after guides like wowhead can be deceiving just like on ret
just dnt listen to guides on iceyveins
frozen basin
You need to know that is not easy spec like sub
yeah i mean if im getting invested in a spec i´ll figure it out
inland acorn
wowhead guide is written and maintained by community figure from this discord. It's well written and usually up to date
static crescent
Does anyone here have insight on how much other classes (such as casters) gain from raid buffs? Ive been confused by the topic that my rogues dmg seems to be weirdly dependant if we invite raid buffs to our m+ or not
frozen basin
cause for example it says crit=haste > vers > mastery so my guess is 1000 crit 1000 haste 400 vers and then someish mastery
inland acorn
And we also have holy Bible by Solo in #outlaw-faq
frozen basin
or is there some breakpoints on haste i wanna shoot for and then leave it at that
inland acorn
!stats
ornate heathBOT
Outlaw's stat prio is generally Crit > Haste* > Vers >= Mastery.
- You need ~21-23% haste for energy, this has priority over crit. That's the haste on your stat page after talents/buffs/flask.
- Crit is then your best stat until you approach ~40%, from there random vers or mastery pieces will be similar.
- You have to use
Raidbots Top Gear to determine the exact combination of pieces to use.
static crescent
our mage pumps pretty much no matter what, but i get gigafucked if we go with like only a druid buff
So if our number is 17%, is mages like less then 10% fro remaining raid buffs?
novel isle
So are we FB now? I got excited with these last notes
inland acorn
So are we FB now? I got excited with these last notes
Check pins
Trickster slightly ahead still, but not by that much anymore
granite quarry
is there any sims with the 9% buff yet compared to live?
novel isle
Wait so did FB also get the 9% aura?
inland acorn
Dont think its implemented in sims yet
novel isle
But sounds good too
inland acorn
Wait so did FB also get the 9% aura?
Aura buff means overall dmg buff
So it applies to both trickster and FB
novel isle
So it applies to both trickster and FB
sick bro 🔥🔥🔥
wintry solar
just dnt listen to guides on iceyveins <:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
Yeah that's why I specified Wowhead
And more specifically, desktop wowhead
Not mobile
novel isle
just dnt listen to guides on iceyveins <:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
most people say icy is better than wow head
heavy shard
I am still doing ass damage ... maybe skill issue but damn this spec is hard compared to some others that are just getting buffs and buffs every patch ... looking at you bm hunter
wintry solar
If I'm ever stranded in a snowstorm and I need warmth I'll use mobile wowhead
novel isle
maybe depends what class your looking at
inland acorn
It might be better for few selected specs, but overall icyveins is worse in comparison to wowhead guides
hardy wigeon
Ngl trickster is literally not even that bad, just hate the stupid cloud cause I can’t see shit
jolly geyser
Can move out of it anyway
inland acorn
Can move out of it anyway
I wouldn't get used to it
Never know when blizz decides to stealth hotfix this
jolly geyser
Ye
heavy shard
IcyVeins recommends PVP talents that no longer exist for example. So I am not sure they pay that much attention to rogue 😄
Their Hunter guides are top notch tho
jolly geyser
I just go fb if that happens with cloud
still matrix
When will Rogues be top of meta again huh
when is our turn
it's always DKs and warlocks and blah blah
jolly geyser
Wow 2
inland acorn
in 15.1 patch
inland acorn
outlaw is rarerly raid spec, due to how it works
static crescent
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
inland acorn
burst cds are just more valuable, unless you have 100% uptime boss with no amp phase
elder sonnet
What seems weird to me is that the second take with the 9% buff looks like they ...
I'm pretty sure the initial plan was an intended nerf, they're not that incompetent to not understand what is and isn't an overall net nerf
static crescent
I mean, the tank changes are a good tip from that too
with current state, giving 10% more armor to other tanks n shit
And we are here complaining we having a rough time, imagine playing a VDH this season
elder sonnet
Also I guess it's safe to say that we're not going to be on the receiving end of any buffs for the foreseeable future because of this? Not until 12.1 atleast
static crescent
I think they will keep doing this 5% jerk off thingie until forever
river wing
idk I'm already elated by the changes ending up a miniscule nerf
just gonna wait for 12.1 for anything substantial at this point
river wing
i mean design-wise...
inland acorn
i mean design-wise...
I hope they will do something with talent tree ngl
Specifically HO side
Like it's such glaring issue idk how it did not get addressed
limpid sky
he can't help it
it’s not his fault, he's locked up in some basement with 2 buttons, one for aura buff and one for bf nerf
inland acorn
That whole playstyle is just dead, because vanish was removed from restless, which made those talents just dead
radiant wyvern
surely ho will get replaced by a new and meaningful capstone 
inland acorn
Copy paste of fast action but instead of between the eyes
it's reducing blade rush cd by 5 seconds
novel slate
surely ho will get replaced by a new and meaningful capstone <:Clueless:14728750...
Killing Spree 2
now with even slower channel
inland acorn
river wing
ngl
it would be bad design, like actually bad in terms of talent design
but I would legit welcome a capstone that improves restless by, idk, 15%
inland acorn
Nah that's not happening
I think after TWW, where they saw our ADR uptime to be like 95%+, they will never let us get that much cdr back
river wing
ehhh it was because of UHUH and ADR being 2 mins
inland acorn
Yeah, but now we're like almost 40%
and while 15% extra on restless doesn't seem much
It might skew it actually pretty high
river wing
right now it'd like
make AR uptime go from 40 to 50
inland acorn
I think it would be higher
Because you also reduce KiR, so you can fish more for stage 3
which is even more cdr
atomic jasper
is wow analyzer up to date? even if its not is it decent to check it out?
snow vessel
I feel like if it was a capstone it should be just a general buff to all levels of RTB
inland acorn
It's not been updated in quite some time, so I wouldn't rely on it
snow vessel
wow analyzer has basically never been good for outlaw
inland acorn
It has been updated few times, where
It wasnt perfect, but it did help you spot a lot of minor mistakes
snow vessel
People have tried but there’s always been issues
river wing
Because you also reduce KiR, so you can fish more for stage 3
I just want proper play to be able to never roll 1oaK while always having RtB up
atomic jasper
im consistently doing 105k overall dmg on +12 keys at 276 ilvl
inland acorn
I just want proper play to be able to _never_ roll 1oaK while always having RtB ...
Ye I get that
atomic jasper
feels kinda low
river wing
yeah it's a fail state
inland acorn
Like it says it increases SS chances, but
I just don't feel it ever
when i roll stage 1
river wing
it works, it's just irrelevant
atomic jasper
im consistently doing 105k overall dmg on +12 keys at 276 ilvl
picked outlaw to push for 3.8k but ain't happining based on this
inland acorn
I mean if you want help, you can do post your log with this command !log
gloomy kelp
Hello hello, what would be your opinion on the best spec overall in M+ wednesday between sub and outlaw with the recent 9% buff (and maybe assa?) , I love all specs and plan to push for the 1% mount atleast in full PuG. Thank you guys
inland acorn
Just keep in mind, reading outlaw logs is masochistic
primal holly
feels low, probs lots of room to improve rotation @atomic jasper
inland acorn
So not a lot of people do it
For best help, I would recommend recording hitting dummy for like 1 min with GCD tracker on screen
That's easiest and fastest way to spot mistakes
atomic jasper
I mean if you want help, you can do post your log with this command !log
in this channel? !log warcratlogs>/asdfasgwewegse
inland acorn
Hello hello, what would be your opinion on the best spec overall in M+ wednesday...
For outlaw it's still a nerf
atomic jasper
lemme dig logs sec
snow vessel
I just want proper play to be able to _never_ roll 1oaK while always having RtB ...
I feel like that’s already the case tho no?
inland acorn
You can still get very unlucky and find yourself doing natty RTB
And if it lands on stage 1
Well
logout i guess ?
brisk spear
Wtf is an 1oaK
inland acorn
Wtf is an 1oaK
1 of a kind, he refers to stage 1 of rtb like this
brisk spear
Ah
river wing
I feel like that’s already the case tho no?
no, rtb lasts 30s, getting LD is more like every 40s unless you're cracked
of course if you roll 3+ it's way quicker
inland acorn
if you roll 3 it's a lot easier to chain ld, to secure yourself from nat roll
river wing
ye
snow vessel
Ye but you generally have an acceptable roll and LD
inland acorn
But if you keep rolling 2s
river wing
if you roll 3 you will get LD
inland acorn
you will eventually need to do natty roll
snow vessel
You have to get really unlucky
river wing
idk
snow vessel
It happened to me like
atomic jasper
!log
river wing
I routinely get pulls where I roll like three 2s in a row with LD each time
I have sleight also
snow vessel
Once every 4-5 pulls and it was normally only for a second
Like by the time I had my RTB again I already had LD
inland acorn
!log
just don't get your hopes up, like I said. Reading outlaw logs is just masochistic. Best way would be to record with GCD tracker on screen, hitting dummy
snow vessel
I guess thing is like
I’m talking about a raid fight more than m+ it might be more common in m+ to end up on one of a kind
river wing
in M+ it is worse due to downtime between packs yeah
atomic jasper
just don't get your hopes up, like I said. Reading outlaw logs is just masochist...
best way to record it?
inland acorn
uh
idk
Warcraft recorder app maybe
or any recording software like OBS
for gcd tracking, I think details still has streamer plugin that shows GCD history
inland acorn
in M+ it is worse due to downtime between packs yeah
it is both worse but also not that much, because you have technically slightly more finishers, due to just being able to press BF --> finisher no ?
river wing
it is both worse but also not that much, because you have *technically* slightly...
it is fine on packs but if you leave a pack with 1m CD left on AR, you're fucked sometimes if there's travel time
inland acorn
but ye, some dungeons have big downtime and it can be very big swing in rtb uptime
snow vessel
I just know that I played it on Lura and was almost never hitting one of a kind regularly
inland acorn
it is fine on packs but if you leave a pack with 1m CD left on AR, you're fucked...
Ye also rp sections, where you wait for doors 
cedar bone
So we stick to smoke bomb 420 blazeit style right ?
snow vessel
Like I never had it happen twice a pull
river wing
tbh just having 2 KiR-2-1-2 KiR-2 is already demoralizing as fuck
inland acorn
So we stick to smoke bomb 420 blazeit style right ?
You can go FB, its not that behind trickster
Pins for more info
cedar bone
FB is Not that smooth to Play someone Said Right ?
worldly compass
fb is way smoother
river wing
FB is much smoother
but loses like 2% dam?
inland acorn
Depending on encounter but ye
In m+ its closer to 1% depdnding on dungeon
st 2%
Heavy cleave like up to 4%
cedar bone
4% Heavy cleave loss is to much for highkeys imo
chrome bramble
thank you @vivid vessel
inland acorn
4% Heavy cleave loss is to much for highkeys imo
that's mostly for raid
from pin:
In M+, Fatebound is closer, potentially within 1% overall. I believe this is because of Fatebound's performance when Thistle Tea has run dry. Fatebound is way more comfortable with resources so it's perfectly acceptable to use it again. Overall aside, Trickster is still going to give you more of a boost during the early AR/Lusted pulls and has perma Tricks so you might swap between both to decide what you like.```
keen lantern
maybe im trash but in M+ there are usually 1-2 scuffed pulls where I don't have optimal cloud coverage because the mobs or tank move, I think FB would be more consistent
inland acorn
It's currently bugged and refreshes buff duration, when cloud expires
But i wouldn't really rely on it
It's a crutch, and blizzard might just stealth hotfix it
keen lantern
oh shiet ok well maybe trickster then unless it gets fixed
agile orchid
does fatebound play preparation in M+?
static crescent
I still hate using prep
river wing
I mean if you don't want to, you can just not use it
static crescent
Notice myself being annoyed when its up at the "wrong" time
river wing
put the point elsewhere
agile orchid
and lose even more dps?
river wing
I mean
are you using it optimally anyway?
like again, sims don't take travel time or downtime into account, it's a series of dummies
static crescent
Its also a lot shittier to use it optimally in pugs
But AA for example sucks without it
inland acorn
like again, sims don't take travel time or downtime into account, it's a series ...
there is downtime in dslice
not big, but i think it is implemented
patchwerks assume 100% uptime tho
radiant wyvern
if fatebound is slightly behind in keys, but has enough energy that I can run crit flask in a key, does that even it out more?
river wing
if fatebound is slightly behind in keys, but has enough energy that I can run cr...
what about vers flask
static crescent
Also thats like, difference between how tanks pull what the downtime ends up being is giga massive
tender wedge
how tanks pull will have more effect on your dps than pretty much any other factor
static crescent
I dont play in a phys comp so our pulls are very odd for an outlaw
radiant wyvern
what about vers flask
idk crit flask simmed quite a bit higher for me on trickster
probably because of the 150% crit dmg though
river wing
yeah that's likely why
snow vessel
if fatebound is slightly behind in keys, but has enough energy that I can run cr...
You can sim the different flasks it will take into account but probably not
glass quartz
where can i find new changes sim stuff?
arctic merlin
slim hare
crit sims higher for most people at around 23% haste
hollow bloom
crit if you got the haste. i run extra haste if i want to be comfy with energy
slim hare
but haste flsk can help with energy so its played by some in M+
atomic jasper
im consistently doing 105k overall dmg on +12 keys at 276 ilvl
so i've recorded a dummy session, can spot some mistakes but can't define their importance, i'd like to hear your suggestions
daring yoke
if we only prep once in a raid fight, is it still worth taking it?
near osprey
yea give us a way better opener/burst for sustain
inland acorn
so i've recorded a dummy session, can spot some mistakes but can't define their ...
-
you dispatched in opener, while it should be SND to preserve charged cps for BtE
-
You used AR, when you had full CPs. Should've just dispatch --> ar
-
You sent BtE, when your AR was like ~26s away (at least 2 times), which led to you not having BtE ready for your AR cast. In those cases you should hold BtE (to not risk it going on CD, so you can AR --> BtE asap)
-
I've also noticed, that sometimes you're not hitting buttons on gcd (it's common mistake on outlaw, due to our gcd being lower in AR). Like couple times it was visible, that it took you extra like 0.5s to process what to press. While not big if it happens like once or twice, it quickly adds up if it happens regularly
-
Minor: spotted like 1 dispatch which was sent at 5cp, but overall you sticked to finishing at 6+ so
hardy wigeon
so i've recorded a dummy session, can spot some mistakes but can't define their ...
Brother keep bashing your buttons at light speed there’s no time to wait
inland acorn
1) you dispatched in opener, while it should be SND to preserve charged cps for ...
In order of importance I would say its
4 >= 3 > 2 > 1
Not counting last point, since it was single instance
obtuse peak
Hey, I saw another buff for the Outlaw. Does that mean it's no longer nerfed?
inland acorn
Hey, I saw another buff for the Outlaw. Does that mean it's no longer nerfed?
Its still nerf to trickster, check pins for info
opal badger
If i do AR into BtE and don't reset, I use the 2nd supercharge on dispatch?
opal badger
Unless you have prep to reset BtE
Oh, never thought about that
I mean i just used 2nd supercharge then used prep for rest
bright lodge
Are we taking a break for AC:BF Resynced?
red tendon
Holy some people are weird. Got invited into a group, but was in a skyreach failed group before. Teleport 8 hours cd and Hearstone 20 mins cd. They are all already there and even have a lock so I ask for a summon and get kicked for attitude 😂
shrewd cobalt
naa it's because you outlaw
inland acorn
I mean
Someone was mad at me, when i kindly told them after run
To do a pull timer before starting key, so people can do their pre-key stuff
And got hit with cool story
pearl topaz
Unless Outlaw gets a big buff that changes perception "oh look X is op now" people will treat current nonshit outlaw like the shit outlaw it was before
inland acorn
There always be some random people who are always mad about something, or think they need full meta comp for weekly no leaver +10
Just ignore those and move on with your day
red tendon
naa it's because you outlaw
Might be, but then why invite me in the first place😂
Since I was the last one joining
red tendon
And then had to put their group up again for search
spare shard
I'm sorry if this has already been discussed a lot, but I'd like to know if Fatebound will be playable again tomorrow?
livid lake
inland acorn
I'm sorry if this has already been discussed a lot, but I'd like to know if Fate...
Yes, slightly behind trickster but not by much
livid lake
Idk if you have seen this already
inland acorn
I'm sorry if this has already been discussed a lot, but I'd like to know if Fate...
Pins have more info
spare shard
yes ty! 🙂
fervent garden
Just when I was getting used to Trickster again.
inland acorn
You can still play it, it's still slightly ahead of FB, especially in raid
atomic jasper
1) you dispatched in opener, while it should be SND to preserve charged cps for ...
thank you for your time mate
what i didn't understand is do i SND before AR?
SND > BF > AR > BtE
fervent garden
Hey so I can myth crest upgrade either my OH or my sneakers. OH is already at Hero level from original craft, snealers are original (Champ) level. What do YOU do?
inland acorn
SND > BF > AR > BtE
No, it's AR --> RTB --> SND
atomic jasper
AR RTB SND BF BtE
inland acorn
Hey so I can myth crest upgrade either my OH or my sneakers. OH is already at He...
Sim myself 🙂
inland acorn
AR RTB SND BF BtE
yes
atomic jasper
got it now thanks
ornate heathBOT
- Use
Adrenaline Rush to activate 
Loaded Dice. - As Trickster, use
KS to activate 
Disorienting Strikes. - Do NOT use
RTB before the key, you will lose it. - Use
SND during the bubble once the key starts.
young prism
Maybe it's just me but, from the post I also took it as they reverted the cloud thingy. I suppose it's my imagination right?
inland acorn
That removes SND part from equation, because you will have it before pull starts, and can RTB before AR, to use already active loaded dice
inland acorn
Maybe it's just me but, from the post I also took it as they reverted the cloud ...
They didn't, it's still nerfed. Just increased aura buff from 5% to 9%
young prism
I'll take it
atomic jasper
i feel like 82ms is too sluggish to play outlaw, as if what i press registers 0.3 sec later or so, you know the feeling when something isn't smooth in a wrong way
anyway to fix this?
only thing that i can think of decrease the input lag from 400ms to 200ms maybe?
inland acorn
you can try to experiment with spell queue window
robust vessel
has blizz said its a 9% buff? on mmo..and wowhead it still shows 5%
inland acorn
yes
atomic jasper
in a scenario where i have 5 cpts and bladeflurry off cd, do i BF or PS or dispatch?
BF duration still up
robust vessel
woahhhh lets gooo https://tenor.com/view/machine-gun-danny-mcbride-gif-21118588
inland acorn
in a scenario where i have 5 cpts and bladeflurry off cd, do i BF or PS or dispa...
BF
Although I doubt either moves dps needle
Maybe very slightly if you know you can BF for full cps, so you would rather PS/SS but doubt it's any big gain
inland acorn
In this scenario, if you don't have 6 opp stacks, then it's either SS or BF
Doubt there's wrong answer here
atomic jasper
SS = single shot?
inland acorn
Sinister strike
atomic jasper
ah
i wrote it completely wrong mb let me fix it
in a scenario where i have 5 cpts and bladeflurry off cd, do i BF or PS or SS?
BF duration still up
inland acorn
PS if at 6 opp > BF = SS
I doubt it's gonna make huge difference which one
Either way is better than sending 5cp dispatch though 🙂
novel moth
Am I dreaming, or are we still losing 2% and everyone's happy? Again, without any explanation.
inland acorn
Am I dreaming, or are we still losing 2% and everyone's happy? Again, without an...
Would you rather lose 6% ST and 4% aoe ?
novel moth
for what?
inland acorn
That was previous tuning, before they increased aura buff to 9%
atomic jasper
man i was happy when i saw that damnn outlaw is getting buffed
turns out to be nerf
novel moth
I understand, but why are we nerf?
atomic jasper
sub or assas ain't gonna beat outlaw at raid or m+ right?
inland acorn
Because Blizzard decided idk
We did expect nerf to cloud talent, because it had too much power baked in
inland acorn
sub or assas ain't gonna beat outlaw at raid or m+ right?
I think all 3 will be close somewhat
novel moth
inland acorn
Might be depending on fight in raid, like vanguards still kinda sucks as outlaw
atomic jasper
dayum i hope rogue doesn't drop from phys comp
inland acorn
As for m+, idk I'm not pushing keys so I don't have that much take on it
lapis meadow
Does hunters mark amplify blade flurry damage
Like hunter marks prio mob, i cleave off it
inland acorn
I dont think so, but I might be wrong on that
limpid sky
dayum i hope rogue doesn't drop from phys comp
it’s already not bis in phys comp tbh (not saying outlaw is bad atm)
marsh raft
thankfully im not pushing competitive so dont have to care 🙂
besides, my group is basically always pala/monk/hunter/rogue/warlock
prolly unoptimal as hell
graceful rover
We saved?
granite quarry
barely, not saved from trickster though
long bramble
in a scenario where i have 5 cpts and bladeflurry off cd, do i BF or PS or dispa...
Bf if it s going off ss if you have only 3 opp ps if you have 6 opp
graceful rover
Does it keep rogue in physical comps or is it brew resto warrior pally Druid?
long bramble
I mean I think ret is stronger than us even now pre nerf
So
It doesn’t really change anything we re barely losing a bit of st and our st was indeed good
timid idol
am i stupid is ret phis damage?
isnt it... holy radiant whatever the fuck damage?
which is not phisical?
novel moth
~60–75% Holy / 25–40% physique
long bramble
I think it s holy but don’t care still better than us
That was the point of the nerf complaints
There are like 3/4 classes doing more dmg no raid buffs than us in a tailor made phys comp
rocky vault
ret kept in check by ret players
rocky vault
yea bm is getting buffed too
long bramble
Bm numbers are very low idk if the 4% is enough
timid idol
survival is good tho
long bramble
I might be wrong but surv is not fully phys
timid idol
unless that one does magic damage and my whole life has been a lie?
long bramble
I think it does fire
novel moth
Nature
timid idol
fr bombs are nature and not phis?
cedar bone
if we get nerfed 2% ST and 0% AOE what is it in gerneral for M+ ? like 1%?
timid idol
bruhhhh
rocky vault
the bomb is fire rest is phys for surv
long bramble
Pre midnight yes idk now tbh
timid idol
ive been playing this game under the assumption that theres more phis options than there actually are lol
long bramble
Warr and feral are pretty much not replaceable I guess in a lfg you can replace the feral with ret or dk
long barn
Bm warr feral outlaw
Drood tank and WW??!
timid idol
tinker class in last titan with goblin shredder tank spec that buffs phis? 
long bramble
Drood tank and WW??!
I mean as of now ww isn’t a spec
long barn
I’m trolling
long bramble
Damage profile is horrible
long barn
Drood tank is good tho
timid idol
Drood tank and WW??!
technically yes practically bear has to be better than bm and ww has to be better than feral at the same time for this to be a real option
and idk if that has ever happened
long bramble
Drood tank is good tho
Yeah but you have to trade the sham buff that is insane
Cause you don’t wanna lose either monk or sham buff
long barn
Ok ok.
long bramble
And I think if you do drood you go mw
graceful rover
Enhance got fixed no buff so you still want resto shaman
long barn
MW, Drood, Outlaw, War, Ele
timid idol
ele?
graceful rover
Ele not physical. Would be prolly better to do enhance
timid idol
that shi is magic af
long bramble
MW, Drood, Outlaw, War, Ele
I do it in lfg is possible
long barn
I mean. They don’t do any dmg anyways
long bramble
But it s not optimal
timid idol
enhance is a shitton of magic too lol
long bramble
Tailor made for outlaw but the comp lose the meaning
timid idol
im pretty sure its more magic than ret
long bramble
I’m trolling you guys shit
I mean I don’t think it s unplayable
timid idol
half the game needs to be fixed lol
long bramble
Unfortunate plays often with elemental
timid idol
the prune threw everything into chaos
long barn
It’s to bad phys comp not good atm without Resto
long bramble
Cause she plays with a mw
long bramble
I mean you can play rdruid ele
long barn
I need to talk to her I haven’t talked to her in some time
frozen quest
as outlaw in m+ do we ever like end BTE combo with dispatch to not get BTE on cd and insta go new AR + BTE combo?
i had to do that choice like when i saw my AR is on like <10 sec and im still in BTE combo
timid idol
yea why not
long bramble
as outlaw in m+ do we ever like end BTE combo with dispatch to not get BTE on c...
You never press bte if AR has less than 25 sec of cd
Even in a reset streak
timid idol
yea
timid idol
if u get resets until ar falls below 30 just go dispatch its fine
fresh widget
I’m looking to switch into Outlaw, any recommendations on guides to mail my rotation?
frozen quest
u need to go to target dummy and press buttons feel it
long bramble
I’m looking to switch into Outlaw, any recommendations on guides to mail my rota...
Prob watch wowtoxic video
I didn’t see it but I m sure it s good
If you have doubts you can come ask here but explaining outlaw from scratch through text seems sketchy ahahhaha
You can check the faq too
marsh raft
Oh its on wowhead now. not that we dont already know the info https://www.wowhead.com/news/outlaw-rogue-buffed-again-in-weekly-tuning-381519
weary flume
with this new aura buff how much is outlaw ahead or behind of assa/sub? I need to know to decide what to play now
long bramble
with this new aura buff how much is outlaw ahead or behind of assa/sub? I need t...
Outlaw is never the best spec outside phys comp
Soo
It s up to you
marsh raft
we wont know solid numbers for at least 2hrs, cause we dont know if the crit dmg thing stacks or not (but prolly not)
long bramble
If you are going for numbers prob assa is better and a lot more flexible comp wise
weary flume
got it, thanks guys
floral crown
I think you can pretty much just play what u enjoy atm
the % difference between the specs is likely minimal
marsh raft
im prolly gonna run sub in raid this week. Assa is just boooring.
floral crown
assa is pretty much on same tier as mages in vanilla