outlaw

[vivid vessel]

its not THAT bad

its right on my line i would say

[glass shard]

same shit different gate

[mighty pivot]

@wintry solar ||made you look||

[pure folio]

the death box makes it where like no one else can do it tho

[vivid vessel]

ye i mean

its not really about

who can do it or not

its about how exploity it is

vs just

cool tech

you know what i mean

this one pretty borderline now tho

[glass shard]

requires nothing but spacebar

[vivid vessel]

it would fall under exploit for me kinda

[glass shard]

seems chill to me

[pure folio]

i guess, the way i see it is like if only one class can do it its kinda shitty imo

[vivid vessel]

ye i mean sure

[drifting burrow]

[wintry solar]

[pure folio]

ur monk can pull it still

i just tried it

[vivid vessel]

wdym

maybe we arent talking about the same thing

[glass shard]

fatebound stonks

[vivid vessel]

are you talking about the dh clip

[glass shard]

grapple all the jumps

[vivid vessel]

that goes out of bound

doing all the jump shit

[radiant wyvern]

popo !

[pure folio]

i havent seen the clip but i assume we are t alking about the same thing

[drifting burrow]

think he mean magisters zac

[pure folio]

no

[vivid vessel]

https://x.com/arch_wow/status/2051225132736135237?s=46&t=YKaisWqFkCTf8y-DfuEaHw @pure folio

Arch (@Arch_WoW)

Cooked up a new way of pulling birds onto 2nd boss skyreach tech requires DH+Aug. I have not tested this yet in an active key but should still work. Pretty massive time save in most meta comps. See important notes below.

▶ Play video

X · May 4, 2026, 8:59 AM

[pure folio]

yes

that

[vivid vessel]

my monk can do that ?

[pure folio]

yes

i just did it

[vivid vessel]

i mean no way its wortth the time tho but

crazy

[pure folio]

no it is

[wintry solar]

Hi!

[radiant wyvern]

[pure folio]

U dont even have to leave the boss room

[vivid vessel]

uh

show me

send clip

[pure folio]

fawjk ok ill clip it

give me like 10 secs

10 mins*

[azure kettle]

"I hope they rework the Rogue's Energy system this time."

[radiant wyvern]

couldnt monk pull the birds with this https://www.youtube.com/shorts/G18xS6K-k1s

[pure folio]

^

yes

u use that

but u need a mob to do it off of

[vivid vessel]

no i said this is exploit to me

[cinder relic]

mods ban this guy

[vivid vessel]

this was used in sl also

was funny

monks would pull last boss sanguine depth

[radiant wyvern]

whats wrong with using a little blizzard vibe coding

[vivid vessel]

on first pack

or smth

[pure folio]

well, its not like ur snapping the mobs off last platform

and the dh can do it.. so..

[vivid vessel]

meh

i told you

i draw my line

[slow lichen]

Mister Zac, with the 9% buff we back to Fatebound?

[keen belfry]

@vivid vessel u right about shredders

[vivid vessel]

idk how to explain my line

[pure folio]

ur very squiggly line 😭

[vivid vessel]

but i have a line

and this cross it

[vivid vessel]

an aura buff buff both hero talent the same

[vivid vessel]

i know i am lil bro

[keen belfry]

big bro*

[slow lichen]

Ty ❤️

[vivid vessel]

every dungeon has a jumper ruining the dungeon kekw

[prisma jacinth]

on outlaw, do you guys insta roll 1 buff and 2 buff too or just 1 buff ?

[pure folio]

oh i meant to ask u zac, does ur monk pull all 3 lashers in AA even with no aug?

[vivid vessel]

ye

look i show you

[pure folio]

that shit is so hard in 20+

[halcyon garden]

are you happy zac

[misty socket]

Can someone TLDR for me the "phys comp" for Outlaw, which specs help and the % dps diffference? I've basically just been joing keys and inviting people without thinking about it, but is it actually a very large dps gain to get buffs from specific other specs?

[quasi verge]

brew war feral rsham

[pure folio]

war druid shaman monk

[vivid vessel]

@pure folio

this is how we do it

[pure folio]

LMAO

[vivid vessel]

no but ye

[errant fractal]

nahhh

did

[vivid vessel]

we have done that pull in 22 2/3 times

[errant fractal]

the frenchman

[vivid vessel]

its hard on tank but

[errant fractal]

actually bully blizzard

[vivid vessel]

tank is goated

[errant fractal]

into buffing

[vivid vessel]

ye all me guys

ty for credit

[errant fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/kids-in-the-hall-dave-foley-smoking-smoke-french-gif-12594369867670974500

[ashen void]

https://tenor.com/view/lesmis-people-sing-les-mis-gif-21625479

[fathom bramble]

warrior monk and shaman buffs are all stronger for melee phys specs than the equivalent buffs are for casters so you get this weirdness where caster comp is just whatever is good and phys/melee comp wants all 3 of these buffs

druid buff from a feral is also nice since they enjoy the phys buffs

and bring an extra buff that is equally good for all specs

warr/monk are 5% while mage/DH are 3% and then shaman has AA 2nd hits that only effect melee

[keen belfry]

casters dont care about raid buffs, melee do. kinda cringe!

[vivid vessel]

casters do the same damage without raid buffs that melees do with raid buffs !

kinda cringe

and then there is dk

playing in caster comp

topping metter

how weird !

[strange kelp]

Dk just doing dk things

[vivid vessel]

infiltrated phys guy

[strange kelp]

Being immortal, doing stupid dam

[vivid vessel]

imagine you take that dk and put it in phys comp

bro would be thanos

[brisk tusk]

how does the spec look now that they ammended the compensation buff

still mid?

[strange kelp]

I mean he is kinda already buffed in caster, gets MT and DH buff

[slim hare]

he is already thanos

[vivid vessel]

its a 2% nerf or so from this week

[strange kelp]

Oh and druid buff

[vivid vessel]

so its ok

[slim hare]

never dying and stuff

[vivid vessel]

sham and warrior would be legit 10% more damage btw

[strange kelp]

True but no aug

[river wing]

holy shit it actually worked????

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-tuning-incoming-may-5/2301220/500

[slim hare]

yes

[last sierra]

wow no way

[slim hare]

goated zac

[real relic]

zac the goat

[river wing]

good job everyone but esp zac

[slim hare]

we need a design post now i beg

[fathom bramble]

I like it how everyone was complaining with no expectation that it would make a difference

[timber knoll]

Tbh nerfing at all makes no sense

[river wing]

looking forward to hearing where that does put us

[fathom bramble]

Just doing their part and hoping for the best

[keen belfry]

this nerf is now something i will not notice in keys so idc about it, its probablky like what a 1-2% aoe nerf

[normal hawk]

We’re also not the only ones catching the nerf

[deep sequoia]

WAIT

[winged lagoon]

zac welker and his men

[deep sequoia]

THE NERF ISNT THAT MUCH OF A NERF

[naive river]

Is this a buff now?

[fathom bramble]

No

[river wing]

it's most likely neutral now

or almost neutral

[keen belfry]

its close enough to neutral it dont matter

[river wing]

like maybe a 1% loss in ST?

[fathom bramble]

1.5-2% or something st estimation and basically neutral aoe

[naive river]

Can we stay trickster?

[timber knoll]

Buff outlaw give rogue a lil raid buff like poison increases damage taken

[river wing]

whatever, it's actually good enough compensation

[river wing]

p sure FB/trickster will end up being close enough you can choose now

[naive river]

Cool

[sand berry]

maybe they randomly buff fatebound coin again

[naive river]

I prefer trickster I think

[errant fractal]

wait so

when do we find out what the numbers actually mean

[river wing]

on reset

[errant fractal]

someone wake up the big brains

[timid wadi]

1 hour tricks hmm

[river wing]

we won't know until they're actually implemented

[naive river]

Main reason I like trickster hahaha

[river wing]

bc the implementation is likely to be uneven

at least in some respect

[errant fractal]

I'm asking the theoreticals

[fathom bramble]

This could also be different depending on how blizz buffs us by 9%

[unkempt verge]

need Solo to wakeup

[errant fractal]

I'm aware blizz will prob brick some random effect

[fathom bramble]

I am assuming right now that all damage includes auto attacks

[strange kelp]

Usually all dmg includes melee and all ability is no melee

[errant fractal]

can we never play trickster? thanks

[fathom bramble]

And it definitely should if previous aura buffs are anything to go by

[fathom bramble]

Yeah

That

[vivid vessel]

But Aug isn't a damage increase tho

It's fake

[strange kelp]

Yeah fair

[fathom bramble]

Aug is damage theft

[strange kelp]

But it does all the cc so I can be a monkey and push buttons

[slim hare]

aug isnt fake

if your not goated and play with a goated dps

[fathom bramble]

I love it when aug sends the mob to space and I can’t hit it anymore

[slim hare]

aug is god

[radiant wyvern]

aug is more boring to play than subtlety

[strange kelp]

Aug attracts a specific type of person for sure

[dim parrot]

Yooo

Can’t wait to playFB again tomo

[floral crown]

I think aug is either love or hate

I know people who will live and die as augs

[rough leaf]

whats the playstyle diff between trickster and fatebound? i only just came back to this expac

[dim parrot]

Aug are cucks irl

[velvet blade]

outlaw got 9% compensation buff now?

[grim spear]

no much difference,

[floral crown]

or girls, my mates gf loves augs

[dim parrot]

Yeah fair

[unkempt verge]

yeah Zac bitched them out

[slim hare]

tricks bad but utility better fate good but care youll die from aggro

[hybrid pecan]

Basically with fb you're dispatching at 5cp vs trickster which does at 6cp. Fb gives 1 more cp when you proc opportunity and has more energy. Trickster plays with killing spree. Overall fb feels much better and smoother.

[river wing]

nah they're healer players who have been forced to DPS, usually

there are players who just can't get into a DPS mindset

[rough leaf]

i dont like the new killing spree

if i dont risk dying while doing it theres no point

[pure schooner]

9% aura inc

[slim hare]

tis doesnt tell you that it doesnt matter which spec you play you end up at 5 cp a lot so one spec generate and lose cp at 5 while the oter can spend and feels way better

[rough leaf]

ye ngl i been finishing with 5cp in trickster so i might just swap fb

[graceful goblet]

zac post was based well played

[lost folio]

after tomorrow's "buff" is trickster still going to be the recommended build?

[vivid vessel]

yes

its still ahead

[copper radish]

Zac can we get another post for another buff pls ty

[slim hare]

nono

[rocky canopy]

we're not greedy

[slim hare]

design issue pliz

[fathom bramble]

now we just need to somehow get 2 charges of ar

[vivid vessel]

maybe i do a post about design issues next

cuase current outalw is legit dog ass

[slim hare]

remove prep ar 2 charge

ace cp

[vivid vessel]

i have grown to liking prep

[slim hare]

target cap

[fathom bramble]

I would be happy to help if you want my thoughts

though in many cases they seem to just mirror yours so

[vivid vessel]

it makes outalw good on first pack of a dungeon

[radiant wyvern]

imagine how much youd like a 2nd charge

[vivid vessel]

where outlaw has always been extra dogshit

without teh momentum from packs before

going into first pack

[slim hare]

thats true

[fathom bramble]

ironically prep is just another reason to have a 2nd charge lol

we curreently waste like 30-50% of the refund anyway...

[vivid vessel]

ye

i like the gameplay of prep

[slim hare]

but maybe get it to be ogcd

idk

[vivid vessel]

but i dont like wasting all that cdr

i dont like thats its on the gcd

and i dont like that i feel like i cant hold prep

[rough fox]

bro am i gonna have to stop playing sub/assa and play outlaw now?! ffs

[fathom bramble]

no

[vivid vessel]

were you playing outlaw this week ?

[last sierra]

gunna have to swap after the nerf

bold move cotten

[rough fox]

nope

[vivid vessel]

so waht changes

[rough fox]

not an outlasw enjoyer

[slim hare]

that whispyr tittle is so troll

[normal hawk]

Then why jump in now lol

[radiant wyvern]

its worse than it is now tomorrow

[fathom bramble]

outlaw is getting 1.5-2% weaker so

you can safely continue to ignore it

[vivid vessel]

i feel like its on blizzard

[rough fox]

oh ok my bad

[vivid vessel]

why do they not have a note

saying what the buffs/nerfs do

[dim parrot]

Ya true

[vivid vessel]

you have to be a mathematician to understand ?

like idk

[fathom bramble]

yeah like no explanation idk

[dim parrot]

I mean

[vivid vessel]

if you aint in the rogue discord you dontk now if its a buff or nerf

xd

its silly

[slim hare]

they would get it wrong

[fathom bramble]

they should have an explanation because a ton of players read it as a law buff

[dim parrot]

They don’t know the resulting % either obviously

[slim hare]

all the time

[vivid vessel]

i mean even if they dont

[limpid acorn]

they should not release 15% dmg talent nodes instead

[dim parrot]

If they put their intention

and the numbers don’t work out

[slim hare]

i swear it would destroy theyr reputation even more

[dim parrot]

They’re not outed

Or opposite I me a

[normal hawk]

Jumping specs cause of like perceive slight damage increase to a struggling class is weird to me

[vivid vessel]

"we intend this to be a nerf to cloud cover that was too strong, to offset this nerf we also aura buff the spec, this should bring the overall to a neutral change "

or whtever

[thorny reef]

so we going back to fatebound then?

or is trickster still ok

[slim hare]

i,agine this was written along the first version where we had the biggest nerf

imagine your reaction

i cant

[vivid vessel]

ok but

at least we would iknow

they made a mistake

would have sent a message to ion directly

[inner yacht]

it would still be better that the perception is they didnt want to actually nerf it

[vivid vessel]

i have his phone number

[fathom bramble]

"the Cloud cover rework has improved outlaws damage by more than intended so we are going to shift some of that power back to the baseline damage. These changes should work out to being a slight damage reduction for trickster players, while moving fatebound closer to outlaws intended damage"

[slim hare]

now imagine that every patch

cant do it

legit cant

[vivid vessel]

surely they have an idea behind these changes lol

tell me what it is

[slim hare]

for real ?

[short briar]

wait

[vivid vessel]

yuuih

i cant leak it obviously

[short briar]

aura buff is 9 now?

is it net neutral now or

even a bff

[fathom bramble]

slight neref

[floral crown]

Probably used AI and it hallucinated some false data and thought outlaw was the top dog spec

[vivid vessel]

slight nerf

[short briar]

buff*

[fathom bramble]

1.5%-2% or something st

near neutral aoe

numbers might shift a bit when we have the actual aura changes on our hands instead of educated gueeses

[short briar]

o does fatebound and bomb in pins still hold?

[runic gulch]

I asked him in person to give outlaw some love. He laughed and then we got S3 of TWW 🥀

[warped spruce]

So is Zac = Tomelvis?... tyring to figure out who to thank?

[fathom bramble]

you will still play trickster

[vagrant kettle]

@vivid vessel ty for u post on blizzard

[slim hare]

just told u, i think they legit cant do that without outing themself incapable of understanding how classes work with theyr damage

[short briar]

ngl

[floral crown]

zac goat

[short briar]

im confused whats the point of outlaw changes

[vivid vessel]

yes im both guys

[short briar]

if its gonna be near neutral lol

[vivid vessel]

i have split personallity

it is what it is

[warped spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-michael-scott-thank-you-bow-steve-carell-gif-5009516783019270794

@vivid vessel

[slim hare]

obviously but i think with little osint you can find it easely

[vagrant kettle]

https://klipy.com/gifs/thanks-man-1--k01KQTX3WMVSFGPW4TET56ZR1B5

[fathom bramble]

I mean cloud cover was an absurdly powerful talent to just randomly have in the middle of your hero talents

and it made fatebound functionally trash

I don't think changing it mid patch is the right call, but that seems to be what the reasoning probably could be

[short briar]

thats a next patch change, not now

[vivid vessel]

tbf fb is still like 6% behind in st

ok mayube less

was it like 4

[short briar]

much less a spec with little represenation

[vivid vessel]

idk

[broken umbra]

ok so are we still dooming with changes? what're the numbers looking like?

[vivid vessel]

im just throwing random numbers now

2%

not that bad

my bad

[slow lichen]

What about aoe

[covert harness]

are we saved/

[blissful gate]

im a man of coin not smoking

[vivid vessel]

its the aoe

that was big

[vague cape]

The question at hand is: does them tuning outlaw badly actually change anything?

[vivid vessel]

5% diff

[slow lichen]

Ughhh

[vivid vessel]

between trick and fb

[fathom bramble]

yeah like 2% is within the margin that we have seen outlaw players play for preference in talents in the past

[vivid vessel]

wdym

changes something for me

[covert harness]

trick is still ahead?

[vague cape]

Go on

[hallow spoke]

Are we assuming any of the trickster passives stack to 2 now or just none of them

[slim hare]

except now tricks is only for trickster its so bad

[vivid vessel]

if outlaw is bad im sad

[slim hare]

make it general

i beg

[vivid vessel]

customer sad = bad business no ?

[fathom bramble]

none

so you lose the extra damage reduction and crit damage bonus from a 2nd stack

[vague cape]

I see, the thing is - will your key being timed or out of time outcome change?

[vivid vessel]

i mean

[fathom bramble]

you just get the fazed damage taken increase as inteended

[vivid vessel]

we timed 22 pit

7s left

or smth

[vague cape]

It’s a maybe - right?

[hallow spoke]

cool ty

[vague cape]

Are any of your co-dps getting buffs or nerfs?

[vivid vessel]

arms is gettingf buffed i think

but only in certain scenarios

like i think its if he plays slayer

[hallow spoke]

slayer arms is getting buffed a decent bit

[vivid vessel]

which currently he does not in any key

but it could be better in some keys

[slim hare]

da,n thats actually a 1% dps angle

[vivid vessel]

where we cant get funnel on bosses

like academy for example maybe

[vague cape]

I guess for me I’d consider how storing the entire comp is, since I’m assuming you probably care more about getting biggest keys down

[vivid vessel]

i mean

[vague cape]

Then again if you feel like a passenger sadge

[vivid vessel]

i care about myself aswell

[vague cape]

Ye

[vivid vessel]

its not fun feeling like im getting carried

i did that in s3 tww

i can tell you

feels like shit

[vague cape]

Idk why they insist on keeping this spec down

[covert harness]

all specs should have their big dam moment, topping meters

[slim hare]

no fun allowed

[covert harness]

big dps dopamine=happy customer

[slim hare]

legit fire outlaw giga fun cant be good

[river wing]

ngl if slayer arms is now gonna be close enough to colossus, I'll play slayer simply because it's so much more fun

[vague cape]

It seems to be a consistent trend, the blade flurry nerf to offset aura, this cloud cover nerf

[river wing]

I fucking hate demolish

[slim hare]

cause otherwise everybody plays it

[fathom bramble]

the current state of outlaw is I think the strongest we have ever been on a final boss of the tier

and we aren't even actually op

[vague cape]

They are very intent on keeping outlaw from rising - the question is why?

[fathom bramble]

we will get our moment soon™

[hallow spoke]

We still have borrowed power to come too tho right

[vivid vessel]

tbf its also very lucky we have an end boss without any of the usual things

[hallow spoke]

I assume that's before end of seeason

[vivid vessel]

long downtime

burst phase

[fathom bramble]

very true

[vivid vessel]

burst requirements

adds bursting or whatever

etc

[fathom bramble]

we are lucky the adds hardly matteer

because I do 0 damage to them

[vivid vessel]

ye

[covert harness]

i dont know, to me raids dont matter at all, im a m+ only player. Which i hope one day we get separate tuning, so we dont fight over who's nr.1 in raid and who is in m+'

[slim hare]

last boss is a design issue not a tuning one tho

[vivid vessel]

im currently playing the 8% bf talent lok

to help on adds

xd

[river wing]

IDK if they're even doing this intentionally
outlaw simply does not interact with the game in a positive way when your boss is anything more than a dummy

[vivid vessel]

but prolly dropping it soon

[fathom bramble]

that's not always the case

[river wing]

like every possible design is bad or neutral for outlaw, but never good

[random stirrup]

Zac!

[vivid vessel]

look at s2 tww tho

it was a 100% uptime boss

we didnt play outlaw on it

was it s2

[fathom bramble]

there was minimal design disruption on quite a few other past bosses

[vivid vessel]

the boss that was like 10 pull

[random stirrup]

What will you do with your newfound power and cultural influence my glorious king

[deep sequoia]

wait are we playing FB next week @vivid vessel ??

[vivid vessel]

no

[fathom bramble]

gally, ansurak, fyrakk

[vivid vessel]

gallywix

[unborn turtle]

Yeh

[deep sequoia]

or is trickster still too stronk

[vivid vessel]

100% uptime boss

[tulip jewel]

does gally even count as a final boss?

[deep sequoia]

i see

[vivid vessel]

add damage didnt matter much

[fathom bramble]

sark maybe

[vivid vessel]

and yet

outlaw wasnt good

[fathom bramble]

I don't remember sark that well idk

[wide coral]

I rerolled a jackpot on our chimaerus kill because of the fucking cdm bug when will they fix it

[vivid vessel]

def tuning issue

oh

killing spree !

i memeber

we got hit by the double that tier

[fathom bramble]

random nerf on a friday right before my raid 👌

[unborn turtle]

Was it the kspree with the stagger

[smoky grotto]

hello, sorry to bother uyou, quick question : is it bad to PS at 5cp ? or should i press SS instead ?

[river wing]

yes, you press SS at 5cp at any point you don't have 6 opp stacks

[tulip jewel]

you mean the stagger that you could still die before or after the spree anyways with

[river wing]

you never PS at all if you don't have opp stacks

[fathom bramble]

the last teleport of KS being a phantom TP that could kill you was wild

[vivid vessel]

ye

[fathom bramble]

remember investigating that @vivid vessel ?

[vivid vessel]

on last boss you would tp on balls and get stunned

was funny

[vague cape]

I’ll say this, restless blades could feel so great, but they need to actually put some power in the cds; and let outlaw have some moments of weaker dmg when said cds are on cd

[fathom bramble]

you just die to something you were never in

[smoky grotto]

of course, but is it a big loss to ps at 5 by mistake ?

[vivid vessel]

i would get stunned once every 2 pulls

xdd

[tulip jewel]

still risked it during gally beams

[vivid vessel]

:D

[quiet ore]

I did the same on my best beloren, monkey brain went "no rtb buff, must roll" even though I had less than 10s ago.

[vivid vessel]

i disagree

[covert harness]

@vivid vessel did ur post on blizz forum actually work, and they did that re-buff ?

[vivid vessel]

i hate outlaw the most when you feel weak at some points

[fathom bramble]

you guys need the weakaura @quiet ore @wide coral

[vivid vessel]

i loved crackshot outlaw cause you legit had 0 downtime ever

[river wing]

wow like every other spec in the game????

[vivid vessel]

current outlaw you have moments of downtime and it sucks cause you cant control it

and then you end up not doing damage when it matters

[vivid vessel]

still a nerf tho

but its a small one

so its fine

[tulip jewel]

if you never leave 2 buff it's pretty sad once tea runs out

[river wing]

frankly I think outlaw needs some niche that isn't gonna sync with amps

[covert harness]

ur a G

[quiet ore]

I must suffer for my artwork

[river wing]

the easiest would be execute I think

[fathom bramble]

execute

[river wing]

like just ramp up crit damage in execute lmao

[vivid vessel]

i mean having 2 charges of adr on current outlaw tho

[covert harness]

zac must be promoted to outlaw overlord

[river wing]

let's see them x6 btes

[vivid vessel]

would help a lot on damage amps and shit

[radiant wyvern]

jackpot rolling, haven't misplayed at all, 0 energy to do anything and it's a 12 mob pack

[hallow spoke]

I mean DK+Ret can dps from 20+ yards but the melee with a gun can't

[vivid vessel]

outlaw damage isnt that bad rn on damage amps i feel like

its been worse

[fathom bramble]

reverse execute could also be funny, but considerably worse in practice

[vivid vessel]

:D

[vague cape]

The thing is you’re talking from a position of “if I’m not strong at any point I’m below the tank” right? For the record I’m talking purely dmg output, the gameplay downtime is disgustingly to me, let outlaw be gcd capped smh.

Like blade rush, bte just don’t feel that powerful, idk. Outlaw’s high point is jackpot I guess? But even that feels watered down compared to 5 buffs before

[river wing]

naw it doesn't really work all that well, unless tuned much higher than actual execute

[random stirrup]

To those I said galactic level cope to, my bad

I repent my dooming

[fathom bramble]

yeah

[slim hare]

everyone doomed

[next shuttle]

So, how is the nerf looking after the latest changes?

[slim hare]

but we did our part upvoting zac and without any hope it worked

[river wing]

but like real, just have outlaw increase crit damage the lower the target's HP
or, here's a stupid thing
how about we get higher opp/ace chance on lower HP targets lmao

[vivid vessel]

im talking damage aslo yes, i prefer when we do damage all the time, feels better because when this isnt true we have moments hwen we happen to do no damage, like rn when i drop adr and get a bit unlucky with energy or procs or whatever, and then you do 0 damage when it matters, says totem spawn, add spawn, damage amp etc
this wasnt the case with df iteration for example, you always had damage running, could hold vanish a lil bit since it was on charges etc

[slim hare]

almost neutral

[fathom bramble]

Thrill of the Fight: autoattack speed and finisher damage are increased by up to 75% based on the lowest life nearby enemy. Max benefit gained at 25% life.

[next shuttle]

Ok, I don't mind that then

[quiet ore]

What if: No charges on adr, but now it's a toggle ability you spend down a tertiary resource bar/buff that's granted by time/restless (imp. adr removed cp, naturally) instead

[tulip jewel]

tww s2 was nice except for spree

[vivid vessel]

idk what this means im gonna be hoenst

[random stirrup]

Then you want to degenerate target swap to low hp targets in packs which ints prio damage even more

[river wing]

very potent design
does anything do this "based on lowest life nearby enemy"?

[vivid vessel]

ah i see

hm

[slim hare]

so devourer?

[quiet ore]

...yes

[next shuttle]

But with the big aura damage buff we should be less reliant on cloud cover right? A non optimal cloud cover is not that much of a detriment?

[radiant wyvern]

chain pulling the entire dungeon to always have a mob in the pack at 25%

[vivid vessel]

really is dev like that

[plain portal]

yo hear me out on some changes for outlaw, get rid of the stratagem in the spec tree and replace with a talent that just buffs finisher damage and gives extra .5 sec cdr per point through restless

[slim hare]

it is

[vivid vessel]

i mean as long as there is no gain holding it till max

the idea is fine

[unborn wedge]

with this new change will fatebound be better?

[fathom bramble]

this is why mine is based on low life nearby enemies

could reesult in degen stuff

[vivid vessel]

issue is i feel like there would be a gain holding it to max

:D

[fathom bramble]

but much leess likely to be frustrating

[slim hare]

i think the idea behind devourer is fine and looks good on outlaw

until you realize they are ranged ; not us and it will be the same as rn

[vivid vessel]

i love niches like these in keys btw

always so fun playing around stuffs like that

arms funnel

outlaw 2 target in tww s2

[vague cape]

From a gameplay perspective I agree - I like my gameplay to always reflect in my dps (some specs you legit can play like a donkey outside of cds and it doesn’t matter).

From a damage perspective I think having some more power to cds changes how outlaw can approach a situation, as it stands you’re always full steam ahead - restless blades forces that. But what if you had cds that actually just straight up did heavy upfront damage? Think beacon or grieftorch, on a somewhat lengthy cd - we could actually not be giga zzzzz on any dmg amp ever

[vivid vessel]

etc

[tulip jewel]

so you want to pick up souls as outlaw?

[long barn]

Like Link stamina in BOTW? On use and recharges?

[slim hare]

no the tertiary ressource generated by spending cp no need to pick up

[normal hawk]

Devourer feels really tank dependant too idk

[vivid vessel]

yes but the issue is we cant hold our cds cause of cdr, so then you just feel bad because you arent in control of it, you cant hold it for a damage amp, or add spawns etc, if its on charges idm it allow you control

[tulip jewel]

i'm just bein silly

[plain portal]

did they ever say their reasoning for getting rid of crackshot? was it just the stealth based gameplay cause they could've just tied crackshot windows to AR no?

[fathom bramble]

2 charges is just the solution

[quiet ore]

Sure. Why not. And restless blades is like eating a raw ingredient that gives you a small sliver of the bar back

[fathom bramble]

and always has been

[tulip jewel]

need the prep mobs to pull as you walk to the actual pull

[slim hare]

i think we need a charge systems

or a complete rework

[glass quartz]

guys is this enough? are we saved?

[fathom bramble]

what Levy said about AR a second ago could also work

[slim hare]

there is no way to have agency over our dps without a charge system

[fathom bramble]

AR is an amount of banked Adrenaline and you can activate it to gain thee effect

and then deactive it to save some for later

[unkempt verge]

Zac lost a leg for this buff

[runic gulch]

Tons of people hated vanishing offensively and the whole UHUH/crackshot gameplay loop was giving people carpal tunnel

[unkempt verge]

hes walking is circles

[lone hedge]

lol Zac please don’t play this week

[long barn]

It’s so sad. TWW S3 so close

[lone hedge]

He’s gonna get us nerfed again

[wintry solar]

Lowkey wouldn't you just leave this on all the time though?

[river wing]

idk if resource management is the right way forward for 'law

[glass quartz]

zac the goat thenk ❤️

[wintry solar]

It is, I don't think restless blades is tbh

[slim hare]

i mean its a more explicit CDR at this point

[fathom bramble]

in my imagination you can only consumee adrenaline to activate AR if you have at least 5 seconds available

[quiet ore]

Bonus points if it automatically activated for Xs if you would overcap on it

[fathom bramble]

and then cannot deeactive it until 5 seconds have passed

[glass quartz]

is it still a net negative for us or is it basically the same now?

[slim hare]

thats cooking ngl

[river wing]

restless is the fun part about outlaw tho?

[wintry solar]

It is

But in 2026 idk if it has a place

It's a 16 year old mechanic

[fiery pendant]

That’d be sick

[river wing]

I think DP just needs a huge buff and then it'd be fine

like once it turns on, it lasts until you hit anything again

[slim hare]

its still good imo it just need a charge system to bank some of that dps for moment that matter (agency)

[sonic flint]

Bake KS into Adrenaline and make it so when AR is up your spenders hit a second time for x amount of the original damage while still counting restless, AR finna go brr

[river wing]

instead of this paltry 4s bs

[wintry solar]

Ohhh okay I get it

[slim hare]

either charge or adrenaline ressources

is a good fix

[wintry solar]

A CD off restless could work

[long barn]

@vivid vessel - you fucking did it bro.

Gentleman of the year

[river wing]

ngl that'd just be Ghostly off restless

[fathom bramble]

another thought I had just for downtime is if AR wasn't 15 seconds and was instead the next x eligible casts

but that's like a completely different problem

[river wing]

like sweeping?

[fathom bramble]

yeah ig

[river wing]

but what about energy gen and stuff

[fathom bramble]

and you change the energy regen to x% reeduced cost

[river wing]

hmmmm

IG

[wintry solar]

Yeah but not a ST debuff obv

That'd be bad

[desert tendon]

zac

that's cool you posted into forums and all

but where the surfers?

🏄‍♂️ 🏄‍♀️

[silver venture]

i dont see a new pin is solo asleep

[river wing]

ngl they could just make KS into that

1. not a finisher
2. flat 1 min CD
3. works like monk spinning kick, hits everything in the area
4. applies +damage debuff to all targets hit

[slim hare]

yes

[silver venture]

and does that mean we stay the same or we actully getting buffed

[long bramble]

ppl playing a lot of specs this szn ngl

[desert tendon]

tbf

[slim hare]

small nerf almost neutral depend on situation

[desert tendon]

you cant say that this season

it's been 2.5 expac we havent seen than many diversity

and i m not even kidding

[coarse kraken]

Thanks man, got the opener down, fixed the addon issue for the double pistol shots, and I think I was thinking you couldn't cast ks while moving so I'll work on that

[random stirrup]

Tww3 was pretty diverse as I remember it

[silver venture]

crazy we still getting nerfed despite being ass outside phys comp

[random stirrup]

There were 5 specs near god comp instead of 3

[slim hare]

yeeah tank diversity goes crazy x)

[vivid vessel]

am i cooked if i say that this wasnt done by blizzard?

but by players

[desert tendon]

tww was correct

tanks are always weird

[vivid vessel]

phys comp started actually emerging in tww

[long bramble]

idk bro i hitted 17 resi and i have only dk ret dh monk

some hunter occasionaly

[wintry solar]

Yeah I like that a lot because
A.) we get what we need
B.) KS is gets a much needed rework

So it's like 2 birds one stone

[vivid vessel]

and its been growing in popularity since then

but its not like

[desert tendon]

like look at tanks in tww 1 and 2

lmao

[vivid vessel]

it has always been good in theory

nothing changed

[normal hawk]

What am I looking at here

[desert tendon]

you re not cooked

[quiet ore]

Well, presuming it deactivates when empty, you'd at least have to reactivate it when you got a stack back. But it'd have to be up to you if 30s of initial adr followed by tiny 1s adr every few seconds was better than banking it for a much bigger adr window later. Certainly there's an aspect of "don't waste it when you don't need the energy"

[jovial dock]

havent been following up much, are we still looking to be chalked tomorrow?

[vivid vessel]

it just was created by players

ye i dont think im cooked

[random stirrup]

Well it’s literally just u guys when u say players

[desert tendon]

Like meta is a thing and will always be a thing. But people are 1.3 iq and play what streamers play without thinking and want the same comp as the streamers

[vivid vessel]

no, people copy, it trickles down

[random stirrup]

Anyone ive talked to when we talk phys comp talks about your eu team or squish

[vivid vessel]

yes

[desert tendon]

if tomorrow the biggest streamer time 21's 22's with triple mages

[vivid vessel]

thats my point tho

i didnt wanted to say that we did it

[desert tendon]

lfg will be full of triple mages for no reasons

[vivid vessel]

cause im humble and all

but

you know what i mean

like player perception just changed

[desert tendon]

blizzard is at fault for some balance, but players are also a big part of the issue. That's a fact i m telling for years now

[normal hawk]

Can we blame Mafic?

[vivid vessel]

now they know they can also play phys comps

because some players do it

so why not them

[desert tendon]

Specially since the exodia incident

for multiple reasons

[vivid vessel]

and i think this will continue to grow every season

look at this season

tehre is like

4 eu phys comp

4 na phys comp

it was stronger in s2 tww

yet no one played it

[desert tendon]

This season was 2 things : Wrong tuning AND giving a way easier access to rerolling

guess what people did

[vivid vessel]

im right anywya

you cant convince me otherwise

[nocturne shuttle]

are the numbers out yet

[desert tendon]

People are playing what streamers play

and since jpc and ramfam arent streaming anymore

and noone can play rogue in the top ladder

[river wing]

no
let Solo sleep

[desert tendon]

there you go

[quiet ore]

stares at zac

[fiery pendant]

Somehow Mafic will spin this rebuff was because of him 💯

[long bramble]

bro i would love to play phys comp every key but it s either i m happy with what i find in lfg or i dont play

[normal hawk]

It was them, based Mafic did it

🏄‍♂️ 🏄‍♂️

[long bramble]

it s the 2nd season i m looking for ppl to play phys comp with

[jovial dock]

they update our changes ? or is it still 5% dmg

[silver venture]

its 9% now

[desert tendon]

Does zac has 2k+ viewers? He s doing great but not enough compared to the 2 i mentionned. In term of rio nor stream

[vivid vessel]

you are looking for it tho

[desert tendon]

it is what it is

[vivid vessel]

i dont think jpc ever had 2 k viewer lol thats wild

[desert tendon]

is blizzard tuning dogshit? Yes. Are people dumb? Yes

[vivid vessel]

he was still niche

he was rogue guy

[fiery pendant]

👍
🏄‍♂️🏄‍♀️

[light ingot]

so did anyone made a sim with the new numbers? now are we getting %3 nerf but not %6?

[vivid vessel]

i think you are wrong censi tho :D

[desert tendon]

wrong about what

[normal hawk]

Should hot tub stream Zac

[vivid vessel]

i think there is a reason people started slowly playing phys comp

[normal hawk]

Really the only way

[vivid vessel]

and its not tuning

[whole junco]

jpc definitely did

[desert tendon]

jpc was one of the most watched m+ player btw, but whatever not the point

[whole junco]

but only during race

m+ probably like 1.5k

[keen belfry]

I’ve been doing my best to spread the word you started

[desert tendon]

tell me zac

because i m sure we agree on most part

[quiet ore]

Oh, another thing: one of the reasons haste still feels mid after cap is because while adr gives hasted GCDs up to a limit (undocumented still, somehow), none of our core short CDs are hasted. If btte CD was also hasted during adr, we'd be talking about haste breakpoints for how many we could fit in a window

[vivid vessel]

i think phys comp was not weaker in s1 tww or in df

i think it started emerging because of wox team and us

timing r1 keys

with our comps

[desert tendon]

Yes i agree with that

[vivid vessel]

and i think it trickles down

[desert tendon]

until there

[vivid vessel]

now there is like

4 phys comp per region

doing good

and thats not tuning

[west ridge]

phys comp precedes both of you

[vivid vessel]

taht did that

yes

but no one played them

[desert tendon]

oh yea no

[west ridge]

but both of you definitely pushed it higher than ever

[desert tendon]

it's because people dont enjoy playing rogue i think

like

[west ridge]

s3 df there were phys comps grps

[vivid vessel]

im not talking about rogue tho

[desert tendon]

isnt rogue still the least played class in the entiere game?

[vivid vessel]

im talking about phys specs

[desert tendon]

Yes but i am because rogue is part of phys comp

isnt it?

[vivid vessel]

im talking about that particular comp style

[random stirrup]

squish was def playing phys comp then, and that was the season that triple law got played no?

[normal hawk]

Tied with envoker

3.3%

[vivid vessel]

ye

[desert tendon]

i m pretty sure evoker is played more

[vivid vessel]

we did r1 tott 30 triple rogue !

[desert tendon]

lemme find accurate source

i did r2 tott30 triple rogue

[vivid vessel]

but that was just meme

[desert tendon]

😔

[vivid vessel]

but like

[random stirrup]

i was there

[desert tendon]

when i was a gamer back then

[vivid vessel]

i mean i know im right anywya

[desert tendon]

😔

[vivid vessel]

jsut watch next seasons censi

i think phys comp popularity will continue to grow

and more people will play it

every season

[desert tendon]

Zac remember what i said when i left the game in s2 tww

[river wing]

#outlaw message

[vivid vessel]

even if its tuned worse

[light ingot]

i begged my guild to make a phys team m+ push for seasons but cannot convience them but this season especially tomi your group made my guild to rethink to make a phys team and next season we will finally have a phys team all thanks to you

[desert tendon]

rogue will be

godlike next expansion, not midnight the one after

[river wing]

there are more aug evoker parses alone in raid and M+ than there are rogue parses

[vivid vessel]

:D

[quiet ore]

Especially if brewmaster and mistweaver keep being overtly/sleeper op

[vivid vessel]

ye

i mean the truth is that tuning matter less than people think

its just easier to play the best specs and copy the r1 team

[coarse kraken]

I didn't realize how bad it was until I got the 12th ranked parse on dragons and it was a 96 lmao

[vivid vessel]

but you can also copy the other r1 team playing the bad spec at least

[desert tendon]

that's crazy tho

[covert harness]

devastation tho, sadge

[whole junco]

thats just how its gonna be when aug is good

cringe!!!

[desert tendon]

having an absolute zero participation is rare

cant blame it on aug

as much as i hate aug

[hollow temple]

@vivid vessel

[desert tendon]

it's not what it used to be

[hollow temple]

[covert harness]

caster meta will prob always have an aug in it

[fossil lintel]

time to resub

[fathom bramble]

is this like a 17% pvp nerf

[light ingot]

tuning matters for people that is already only plays the biggest sim numbers i play only rogue and %90-95 outlaw since i first played rogue in bfa i played in its best season and worst so tunning cannot beat a person like me

[fathom bramble]

or what

[fossil lintel]

i'll do that tomorrow

[hollow temple]

yes its ridiculous maaaaaaaaaan

[fathom bramble]

largest mid patch pvp nerf in years ?

or no

[desert tendon]

btw this is current data

idr with who i was talking about it

[vivid vessel]

is it dead in pvp btw

cause like

i did some pvp this week trickz

[covert harness]

paladins somehow still up there

[river wing]

yeah but I think this is like
very strange

[hollow temple]

they recently panic nerfed MM hunter by like 30% after its mini rework because it was extremely OP

[desert tendon]

pala will still be

It's a strong class fantasy

[river wing]

because for both keys and raid, there are way more evokers than rogues

[normal hawk]

Me, so evoker is even less popular

[hollow temple]

law is very strong rn, but after this nerf it is DEAD dead

[desert tendon]

yea this is showing everyone

[light ingot]

@desert tendon i have an idea do you have player character base for bfa and shadowlands

[desert tendon]

not only raiders or m+ers

[vivid vessel]

oof

i need to finish before then

[river wing]

which means that a lot of rogues don't do M+ or raid, apparently

[whole junco]

need a 2nd post

[vivid vessel]

maybe tmorrow

[gaunt phoenix]

good morning

[vivid vessel]

have a very good morning solo

[craggy barn]

hello solo

[vivid vessel]

[craggy barn]

zac forced blizzard to change the tuning

[gaunt phoenix]

i see complaining works

[desert tendon]

Outlaw not last

[gaunt phoenix]

ty zac

[river wing]

fire is legit unplayable IIRC, no niche, no content

[slim hare]

i told u all

[covert harness]

zac the legend

[vivid vessel]

@hollow temple how much do i need for the weapon enchant

[frail veldt]

It will be lol

[desert tendon]

Hello solo, you re as beautiful as everyday today

[slim hare]

everyoone told me it didnt

[desert tendon]

[vivid vessel]

i heard that was what i wanted

cause its pretty or smth

[slim hare]

but we have proof now

[plain whale]

Complain more now. For the whole class please as a whole

[wintry solar]

1950

Dang too slow

[vivid vessel]

is that a lot of games

[hollow temple]

1950 where can i complain

[random stirrup]

bro it is SO glowy

[normal hawk]

lol poor fire mage

[light ingot]

is this current

[random stirrup]

you are a sparkly guy

[snow stratus]

We getting 9% buff instead of 5% now?

[vivid vessel]

i did this in like idk 10 games or so i feel like it was not that long

[hollow temple]

not rly

[covert harness]

what's the name of the weap enchant?

[vivid vessel]

ok i can do it tomrorow maybe

[normal hawk]

The icy veins one is similar

[vivid vessel]

lil pvp session

[desert tendon]

it should be as of the last reset

[gaunt phoenix]

Acuity

[hollow temple]

galaxy

[gaunt phoenix]

oop

[desert tendon]

intresting numbers

[covert harness]

not the actual weap ench, the pvp one

[desert tendon]

yes it's written small

[hollow temple]

galaxy

[random stirrup]

like on dh i am just a very sparkly guy

[vivid vessel]

lol

idk if i will like it but

i wanna have it

to see

if it like it or not

[hollow temple]

thats a piss pic

ngl

sry

[random stirrup]

wtf?

[desert tendon]

this one will always make me laugh

as much as pal fantasy, elves get a strong one

[wintry solar]

This osrs?

[desert tendon]

[normal hawk]

People play mechagnome

[covert harness]

a it looks like 2 balls

[normal hawk]

Wtf

[covert harness]

lol

[random stirrup]

i was tryna zoom it in bro..

[desert tendon]

that one is unexpected

[river wing]

ngl elves just look better than 80% of other stuff in the game

[desert tendon]

people still levelling

[quiet ore]

I still don't get why blizz thinks they can get away with aura tuning exclusively when we have completely reasonable talent builds that are 30%+ DPS behind, other than "too lazy to bring underperforming talents in line with good ones"

[river wing]

more like people still at 80

[desert tendon]

❓

[wintry solar]

!!!

[desert tendon]

hey wow is still getting a load of new players actually

i m genuinly impressed by these numbers

[frail veldt]

Bro on 10p

[random stirrup]

2.7% new accounts for rwf multiboxing

[random stirrup]

its literally 1440p

[fathom bramble]

a possible though equally dissapointing explanation is that they intend those talents to serve as inactive placeholders

[desert tendon]

WHO HAS MORE THAN 20 CHARACTERS WTH

[fathom bramble]

because theey could not reework them in time

[desert tendon]

Anyways, that was my data spread for tonight

it's almost 5am

[wintry solar]

I believe it's this purely because HO still exists

[wintry solar]

.

[gaunt phoenix]

@vivid vessel new override if you wanted

override.player.spell_data=effect.191056.base_value=70
override.player.spell_data=effect.191057.base_value=70
override.player.spell_data=effect.191058.base_value=70
override.player.spell_data=effect.191059.base_value=371
override.player.spell_data=effect.1135886.base_value=6000
override.player.spell_data=effect.1313710.base_value=6000
override.player.spell_data=effect.1136236.base_value=6000
override.player.spell_data=spell.441587.duration=6000
override.player.spell_data=effect.1313616.base_value=1
override.player.spell_data=effect.1135822.base_value=12
trickster_cloud_cover_secondary=0```

[quiet ore]

I have one of each class - only 3 at 90 rn though

[desert tendon]

that's not 20+ if i m not mistaken

[grim spear]

what's this?

[quiet ore]

Now imagine you're me but you also need 5 rogues for splits

[desert tendon]

number of character per accounts

[normal hawk]

To be fair I’ve probably got like 20 unleveled rabdoms

[desert tendon]

if you guys intrested, here you go https://www.dataforazeroth.com/leaderboards/completion-score

Nightnnight

[river wing]

weeeell
I have 8 for professions
then 12 I levelled in Lemix
then a few trading alts on other servers bc my main server is very low-pop
(started this account back in Sep 2024 btw lmao)

[desert tendon]

love you solo, hate you zeross

[vivid vessel]

I dont want it !

stop spamming me !!

[gaunt phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-25833762

[desert tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-25833762

[quiet ore]

Oh, true, you make a lot of characters just to buy things on servers where they're cheap. I'm not as thrifty anymore, but I made and deleted many characters for that purpose

[gaunt phoenix]

@wintry solar ?

[wintry solar]

What

I've learned nothing and will keep doing my thing

[radiant wyvern]

popo = ban

[wintry solar]

They HATE me

[azure jackal]

so they did more aura for tomorrow?

[wintry solar]

Yeah

[azure jackal]

back of the napkin math 9% would still be under. i wonder if cloud cover would still be needed

@vivid vessel saw your post, thanks for getting it out there

[radiant wyvern]

Did Zachary Tomelvis SAVE Outlaw Rogue ?!

[desert tendon]

no

he made it worse

[frail veldt]

Zac saved outlaw

[haughty moat]

💀

[frail veldt]

Give him green name back

[desert tendon]

NO

[vapid sundial]

green name zac has legendary crashouts

give it back

[frail veldt]

Nothing could go wrong

He's ready

It's been long enough

[desert tendon]

Mewo i would be ok to give him back green name

but you see

he made a post in the forums

but he didnt surf

🏄‍♂️ 🏄‍♀️

[wintry solar]

We already last acro, can't top that

[frail veldt]

Truuuu

[wintry solar]

It quite literally can't get that bad again

[dusty magnet]

considering the buff is it gonna change any of the oversights? is poopcloud still gonna be better or will trickster take the reigns again

[gaunt phoenix]

5% -> 9% shouldn't change anything that I posted earlier

[floral crown]

iirc liquid and echo had a requirement of 20+ characters for splits right?

[dusty magnet]

Figured just wanted to ask

[strange kelp]

Iirc Max said it wasn't a requirement, the players went beyond what was asked because they wanted to win and there was heroic week + mythic gating

They originally asked for like 16 or something

[floral crown]

I see

[long bramble]

20 min to form phys comp ready to deplete 1st pull

[glass mortar]

solo...

[floral crown]

That shit cant be sustainable, but I guess it's better when it's not 1st tier of an expansion

[glass mortar]

what if 4 more % is bigger for fatebound somehow

what if tails triple dips.....

solo please.......

[random stirrup]

the monkeys paw of fatebound being better and losing perma tricks

[wide coral]

honestly, thats a good monkey paw

I'd take that

anything to not be energy starved

[quiet ore]

You gain double grapple. Worth.

[floral crown]

anything you say? 👀

[random stirrup]

playing the game without perma tricks is genuine suffering

[floral crown]

how long is the cd when u dont have perma trick again

[cold geyser]

Eh, I only like it in M+

[glass mortar]

30s

[quiet ore]

30s after it triggers

[floral crown]

eh, manageable

[wide coral]

even in m+

[fossil lintel]

30s after you use it

[wide coral]

if you're used to it, you press it before any pull

even with trickster I use it

[strange kelp]

Max has talked about this as well and he agrees it's getting ridiculous

[fossil lintel]

It doesn't show but it does count the cd while it's up

[quiet ore]

Using tricks on pulls/on CD ain't too bad - just doesn't do the fun thing where if the tank dies in a pull you pull the whole pack back to the released tank insta

[strange kelp]

But they want to win so

[gaunt phoenix]

May 5th Tuning Info part 3

(click for notes)

Cloud Cover is being handily nerfed and we are given a 9% aura buff to compensate (thanks zac ).

1. 9% is largely enough to offset the nerf, we will lose ~2% ST but AoE stays about the same/can be slightly ahead at low cleave.

2. <t:1777999179:R> The crit-damage talent (Surprising Strikes) does not stack anymore, this is expected.

3. Trickster is still using Cloud Cover as opposed to No Scruples.

4. You can start to make a call on Trickster vs Fatebound as Trickster is no longer lightyears ahead.

   • In raid, Trickster is still expected to be ahead of Fatebound by about 2% ST and 4% sustain cleave. Not a crazy difference but hard to give up even if you can't stand Trickster. Can depend on gear a bit
   • In M+, Fatebound is closer, potentially within 1% overall. I believe this is because of Fatebound's performance when Thistle Tea has run dry. Fatebound is way more comfortable with resources so it's perfectly acceptable to use it again. Overall aside, Trickster is still going to give you more of a boost during the early AR/Lusted pulls and has perma Tricks so you might swap between both to decide what you like.
     ^(this is the same as I posted earlier today, 5% -> 9% shouldn't affect the difference)

[cold geyser]

Lol, I do that a lot unintentionally

[wide coral]

"9% is largely enough to offset the nerf" this is taking the stacking fix right?

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[wide coral]

cool

[near osprey]

so yall switching back to fb or staying trickster?

[versed crystal]

so trickster is better overall then

[floral crown]

I'll try both and see what I prefer

[cold geyser]

If trickster is still better, no. FB definitely feels better to play though

[vagrant kettle]

@vivid vessel thanks

[shut lichen]

i got like 60

[ionic citrus]

https://tenor.com/view/you-did-it-you-crazy-son-of-a-bitch-you-did-it-jurassic-park-jeff-goldblum-malcolm-you-did-it-gif-11956726012689064050

@vivid vessel

[vagrant kettle]

https://klipy.com/gifs/jesus-jesus-christ-44--k01KQV21E42EE4F0QHN903FA21Z