I felt the best fights were 2nd boss on seat, the duo in windrunner
#outlaw
keen belfry
you just listed outlaws worst bosses
quiet root
yeah i was gonna say, those are the bosses i do worst on
glass shard
i would rather have 1 mob
keen belfry
ye same
keen belfry
NA
glass shard
:/
keen belfry
sorry billy
floral crown
strange, I'm always performing quite well on the cleave bosses
glass shard
do u hate me ?
floral crown
had 160k on sapish
glass shard
strange, I'm always performing quite well on the cleave bosses
its not that u dont do damage
keen belfry
you shuld see what big boy classes do on that fight
glass shard
its just that its very shit compared to A) other classes and B) relative to more targets
like
u gain 5000000000% more damage
from 5 -> 7 targets
than u do 1->3
or 1->4 even
floral crown
but is it really that bad proportionally to 1 target? I always felt really shit against 1 target
keen belfry
i do more dmg on 2nd boss skyreach on my alt arms warrior ive played for 3 days
glass shard
but is it really that bad proportionally to 1 target? I always felt really shit ...
ignore numbers cuz i made them up
keen belfry
but is it really that bad proportionally to 1 target? I always felt really shit ...
ye u gain like, 20% dmg on 2 target cleave while others gain 100% or close to it
floral crown
ye ye I get what you mean
glass shard
but 1 target -> 2 target = +20% dmg
whereas 5 target -> 6 target = +60% dmg
(fake numbers)
floral crown
so what is our ideal fight then?
sudden veldt
7
floral crown
keen belfry
ST or 5+ is basically ideal
floral crown
okay fair
keen belfry
TLDR 2-4 is bad
glass shard
ST or 5+ is basically ideal
5-8 
why is outlaw so bad
and why must i love it so much
keen belfry
we crank in like 12 target pulls
floral crown
5-8 because blade flurry cap?
keen belfry
and big pulls
glass shard
we crank in like 12 target pulls
nice kappa
keen belfry
i crank
keen belfry
sounds like inflation of numbas!
sudden veldt
3mil?
glass shard
sounds like inflation of numbas!
floral crown
wasn't there some mage that did 3m+ on that pull with PI / aug shenanigans
zinc briar
the bad rng in paladines with trickster means 0 energy afk with bf falling
floral crown
feel like it was weeks ago already
zinc briar
sometimes i fcking hate outlaw
valid hound
just saw the post on blizzard forum – are blizzard mods watching forum at all?
glass shard
feel like it was weeks ago already
had to ahve been before frost nerfs i imagine ?
valid hound
like participate in it and stuf
glass shard
just saw the post on blizzard forum – are blizzard mods watching forum at all?
what blizzard mods?
floral crown
must have been yea
glass shard
glass shard
did i forget to compost my farming guild patch......
im sick to my stomach
are we fucking forreal right now
3 herbs
floral crown
just saw the post on blizzard forum – are blizzard mods watching forum at all?
doubt it, you pretty much need a popular streamer to make enough waves that they backtrack
keen belfry
my arms warrior sims 50k (27%) higher in 3 target cleave and my arms id down 5 ilvl and piss trinkets
sudden veldt
who wins rn outlaw or subtely or assa?
keen belfry
than my outlaw
floral crown
assa surely
I will
glass shard
the diff is minimal
diff is prob lost on comfort mistakes alone
floral crown
probably doesnt really matter what you pick anyway
I also committed 6 bonus rolls to get the main hand from NPX
glass shard
e.g make mistake on sin cuz u play it less = advantage lost
floral crown
I am in the trenches
patent mirage
thorn plinth
!log
floral crown
whys this spec getting the bigget nerf tomorrow
plus giving frost 5% buff
which is just slightly behind
and the class offers a dps spec that's top 5
small mural
whys this spec getting the bigget nerf tomorrow
well it's pretty simple, rogue is not a ranged dps so they have to nerf it
sand berry
idk man I think they should just nerf fury warrior instead
floral crown
frost buff make no sense
Yeah I tried frost the other week, following the first set of buffs and it has amazing burst. It loses to unholy when fight goes on longer, but it really does have a quick burst
Frost might become a contender
quiet ore
Real q y'all: why are we getting borrowed power again in the 12.0.7 patch? I thought we agreed we hated that
static crescent
to make the season last longer
keen belfry
Real q y'all: why are we getting borrowed power again in the 12.0.7 patch? I tho...
player log in to gain power and chase strong thing
static crescent
maybe u wont be that bored again
floral crown
will the borrowed power be applied to m+ aswell?
dim parrot
Yeh just subscription farming
All they care about is creating addictive gameplay loop
quiet ore
player log in to gain power and chase strong thing
Gearscore already go up, why need numbers not included in gearscore
dim parrot
But it’s kind of annoying
floral crown
remember challenge mods in mop/wod would cap your item level
sudden veldt
All they care about is creating addictive gameplay loop
y we must resist their hypnosis
static crescent
idk why not just really let the season die for 1 month
dont really lose that much subs
and then s2
but i guess they will do that in addition to this sort of
keen belfry
so weird we are getting a nerf
lucid sparrow
so weird we are getting a nerf
yea im not playing the game until something happens, it bummed me out rly hard
cuz invites for me are dead after this patch
opal gazelle
Is it the stacking bonuses or the reduced duration of the smoke that is worse nerf?
vivid vessel
well the uptime is reduced by 2 almost
lavish wagon
radiant wyvern
i predict the time nerf will also nerf the refresh
6 sec buff if you dont walk back in the circle you placed 30yds away
opal gazelle
I thought there’s a bug where you dot even have to go back in
craggy barn
nah i was under the impressiojn they were just nerfing the buff, not the cloud duration
yes theres a "bug" where it auto refreshes at the end of the cloud duration
glass shard
6 sec buff if you dont walk back in the circle you placed 30yds away<:HOLY:12508...
it refreshes on its own
dont have to be in it
lmao no shot its a bug
whole junco
still outlaw on lura post nerf or what
craggy barn
lmao no shot its a bug
we dont know if it is or not
it works differently from other similar effects in the past
opal gazelle
The tooltip text heavily suggests you need to be in it.
craggy barn
yes
radiant wyvern
it refreshes on its own
yeah currently it does
frail veldt
Id wager its a bug
bright lodge
I think it did not refresh when it just came out and they added refresh a day or 2 later
frail veldt
the mechanic makes no sense to even mention staying in the cloud if this was their intention
frail veldt
I think it did not refresh when it just came out and they added refresh a day or...
wasnt it when they removed the energy cost?
bright lodge
wasnt it when they removed the energy cost?
Ye, you think it was unintentional too?
frail veldt
for sure
bright lodge
I just don’t understand how that would be tied unless they really gave up and started vibe coding
bright lodge
I just don’t understand how that would be tied unless they really gave up and st...
Or it was intentional but weird
radiant wyvern
i have a mind to believe that someone did it intentionally, whether or not blizzard wants it to stay that way or if it will i dont know,
the large complaints of it were having to stand in the circle, and it being too much visual noise to everyone, and then both of those were changed
frail veldt
I just don’t understand how that would be tied unless they really gave up and st...
ngl I hear this mentioned a lot
but if you have any experience using the good models for coding
it would NEVER make a mistake like that
thats a human error thing
frail veldt
and if it did make that mistake its because you didnt give it good enough unit tests/expected behavior descriptions
sudden veldt
still holding fellow outlaw players?
fathom stone
How do people feel if outlaw became a tank spec?
frail veldt
How do people feel if outlaw became a tank spec?
nah
id be fine with a 4th rogue spec tank
glass shard
How do people feel if outlaw became a tank spec?
if nothing changes gameplay wise i'd fuck with it
bright lodge
I guess i fell for stereotypes. I do sometimes use ai for code myself and it rarely does unrelated stuff. Either intentional, or outdated code
fathom stone
I would love that shit
radiant wyvern
id crash out if blizz made another tank before tank shaman
slim hare
id crash out if blizz made another tank before tank shaman
nah id crash out if they made a dps or healer before another tank doesnt really matter which one
steel shadow
i think this needed to happen like 5 days ago instead of 22 hours before the patch
frail veldt
i think this needed to happen like 5 days ago instead of 22 hours before the pat...
wdym last minute changes is blizzards preferred method of delivery
steel shadow
id be very happy to be wrong
vivid vessel
i think this needed to happen like 5 days ago instead of 22 hours before the pat...
my bad
!
bright lodge
Better late than never. Don’t blame him now
dim parrot
If we get changes or reverts it’ll be next week
It’s too late rn
If they do it now they do it wrong anyways
floral crown
Whats more likely is that we'll get a minor adjustment in 12.0.7 at best
2.3% or something
keen cedar
Next week is MDI, so no changes for a while mate
floral crown
MDI plays on tournament patch right?
Pretty sure their balance is already locked in
dim parrot
Next week is MDI, so no changes for a while mate
That doesn’t make sense since they’re doing tuning change tomorrow
bright lodge
Didn’t they pushed balance patches mid tournament last expansion?
keen cedar
That doesn’t make sense since they’re doing tuning change tomorrow
prolly last change before 12.0.7
dim parrot
Based on what
keen cedar
Didn’t they pushed balance patches mid tournament last expansion?
Havent played last xpac
floral crown
I think MDI patch is independent, e.g. you can have patches to the game
without affecting MDI
keen cedar
I think MDI patch is independent, e.g. you can have patches to the game
That is okey than
floral crown
Expecting nothing is worse because you wont be ready for the nerf we get in 2 weeks
floral crown
Honestly based on blizzards behavior last 2-3 patches, I would say it's more likely we get nerfed in 2 weeks than getting revert or additional buff
bright lodge
We are not getting nerfed after that, thats 100%
whole junco
what post are you guys referring to
bright lodge
Unless the overune
whole junco
nvm its pinned
floral crown
wouldnt be so sure, clearly someone inside blizzard has an agenda against outlaw
slim hare
what post are you guys referring to
check pin
lunar spade
Such a Low amount of people Play rogue, so the Chance that someone at Blizzard recognizes IT IS Low. But ret pallys Close Discord and get big buff. But they have at least 10 Times the playerbase
copper radish
I hope blizz reads this and gives us emergency tuning to revert these nerfs and give us some buffs while they are at it
elder sonnet
what are the chances?
vivid vessel
0
static crescent
0
keen cedar
0
slim hare
0
bright lodge
50
dull ginkgo
Help
floral crown
0.0001%
static crescent
Only thing im counting on is that they fuck up the aurabuff and it ends up being more
then we play FT and live happily ever after
FB*
floral crown
The chances for them to read it, alone, is slim to none
The chances of acting on it after that is near 0
dim parrot
Problem is FB is squishier than trick
copper radish
.00001 chance? Still a chance
dim parrot
I’d rather them just fix trickster gameplay
static crescent
whatever, i play with a mage, im a thanos compared
floral crown
.00001 chance? Still a chance
static crescent
just gief dam
elder sonnet
they'll probably pass it to the intern again he'll nerf blade flurry more
dim parrot
If trickster finish 5+ I be happy
slim hare
The chances for them to read it, alone, is slim to none
the fact that you are prob right and despite everyone aggreeing they still wouldnt act on it is depressing tbh
copper radish
Even the DH reply supporting us actually wild 😂
arctic merlin
If trickster finish 5+ I be happy
why is trickster finish 6+ anyways
bright lodge
Let’s do some math. They either see it or they don’t so 50/50. And if they see it 100% we would get buffed 1 way or another so I won’t count it in calculations
slim hare
trickster wwont be 5+ nothing give any reason to do so
slim hare
Let’s do some math. They either see it or they don’t so 50/50. And if they see i...
Let me correct your maths. They either see it or they don’t so 50/50. And if they see it 0% we would get buffed 1 way or another so it wont matter if they see it; its still 0
dim parrot
why is trickster finish 6+ anyways
It just works out that way
To do more damage
Based on talents
bright lodge
Let me correct your maths. They either see it or they don’t so 50/50. And if the...
You are not wrong but not right either
harsh forge
that’s it boys, delete the discord
slim hare
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1048716096217284653/1500988094114041916/M...
damn your washed
ross was right
buoyant cosmos
puggin chimmy rn
chimmmmyyyy
keen belfry
im still in here
slim hare
damn your famous
only reason your not kicked
is fame
thats not fair
any other outlaw would have been kicked
long bramble
any other outlaw would have been kicked
i can t even pug my last 17 for res
copper radish
puggin chimmy rn
Outlaw looks diff here 🧐
long bramble
nvm i just got invited after 2 hours
slim hare
nvm i just got invited after 2 hours
you know your problem
?
you stopped gambling
and your not famous
long bramble
you know your problem
my classe colour
keen belfry
outer meteor
static crescent
rerolls allready starting
copper radish
rerolls allready starting
Devourer been leveled and ready since day 1 👀
dim parrot
Bro if u guys thinj
Tuning mattered enough to roll me off outlaw
I’d be gone pre-nerf
Like no one is here due to good tuning l
Because it doesn’t exist
It’s mid
frail veldt
there were a decent number of new people here
who joined probably because there was some hype about the buff
copper radish
And now they gone lmao
frail veldt
yeup
frail veldt
I think they were still in the gearing/learning process
looking at the posts from wang and zac of doing 200k+ overall
static crescent
ima gona be honest im swapping around between assa and law all the time based on my hype levels
slim hare
lol
frail veldt
slim hare
ross abandon osrs
proven ocean
ross abandon osrs
Nope didnt
slim hare
abandon wow cause he dont have time
proven ocean
you doing the choron's pit abuse
slim hare
then post every shit in diablo maxed after a week
copper radish
then post every shit in diablo maxed after a week
Looks like he had the time
slim hare
you doing the choron's pit abuse
haaa
proven ocean
I just did 7000 pits and im only paragon 220…
slim hare
it explains it
lucid sparrow
its an exploit
proven ocean
I just did 7000 pits and im only paragon 220…
XDXD
lucid sparrow
might be bannable
lucid sparrow
u can infinitely level ur glyphs from 1 run
proven ocean
One of the seasons
lucid sparrow
anyway this is the OUTLAW CHANNEL !!!!!
proven ocean
Everyone anused it
lucid sparrow
OUTLAW !!!!!
proven ocean
No ban
lucid sparrow
THE LAW !!!!
proven ocean
Law!!!
lucid sparrow
speak of outlaw or dont speak at all !!!!!!!!!
burnt grail
Hey guys so I was thinking.. the tank never keeps the mobs in my smoke cloud anyway, so I guess it could be a buff still?
burnt grail
Yes I did add some copium to my smoke vial
copper radish
I’m still tryna comprehend blizzard. Buff trickster w a new hero talent update. Get everyone to play trickster. 2 weeks later throw some nerfs at the wall annnnnnd now no one’s gonna play trickster once again. Real genius moves
slim hare
you dont need to be in smoke to have the buff or reset it
slim hare
I’m still tryna comprehend blizzard. Buff trickster w a new hero talent update. ...
700 years design team
floral crown
I’m still tryna comprehend blizzard. Buff trickster w a new hero talent update. ...
I’m still tryna comprehend blizzard.
Here was your first mistake
bright lodge
An interesting thought came up in my mind. Do we have any outlaw looking themed tier set?
sweet zodiac
undermine tier was a dead pirate
slim hare
ha mb
frail veldt
Season 3 I think?
bright lodge
Was it? It called gambler something but did it represent any of gambler stuff?
arctic merlin
An interesting thought came up in my mind. Do we have any outlaw looking themed ...
outlaw has an identity crisis
it's either a pirate or a cowboy
slim hare
wth
slim hare
when are we cowboy
arctic merlin
desperado
proven ocean
L set
slim hare
always been pirate to me
floral crown
Its called "Spectral's gambler" so yeah clearly outlaws
lucid sparrow
only the head piece of that set is good
bright lodge
Ok. I see the gun. Counts as outlaw
arctic merlin
always been pirate to me
there's a tumbleweed rolling each time you reset bte
hiding bullets up your sleeve
gravedigger
frail veldt
only the head piece of that set is good
the chest and pants and boots are all quite sick
lucid sparrow
boots are horrible
frail veldt
bad take
lucid sparrow
chest an pants r ok
literally roblox boots
fym
foreskin leather boots is what those are
timid idol
why is there no new pin yet
arctic merlin
foreskin leather boots is what those are
tbh you can replace the boots and whatnot, but it's a great set
the coat looks good
frail veldt
foreskin leather boots is what those are
buddy you gotta go to the doctor
if your shit be lookin like that
keen cedar
What is the chance of seeing rogue in MDI ahahahhaa, tho it is fastest dng not highest key
bright lodge
Cuz I was searching out transmogs and stumbled upon shadowlands s1 belt from raid. Where on the right side is kunais and on the other is poison vials. I know t there was no tiers un sl s1
frail veldt
What is the chance of seeing rogue in MDI ahahahhaa, tho it is fastest dng not h...
sub and assa have made appearance
outlaw hasnt been in MDI since BFA I think
keen cedar
Oh really?
slim hare
What is the chance of seeing rogue in MDI ahahahhaa, tho it is fastest dng not h...
none rn
keen cedar
we go fatebound in mm + ?
Dont think so
slim hare
before or after patch ?
arctic merlin
looks like M+ is preference, it's only like 1% or so
gray summit
after
In M+, :fatebound: Fatebound is considerably closer, potentially within 1% overall.
slim hare
after patch both seem really close probably up to preference
arctic merlin
i'd prefer fb as the sustained fights feel better
slim hare
but thats assuming everything is modifed as written with no bugs
arctic merlin
trickster more burst in ar windows
slim hare
which is unlikely to happen
so will have to see after patch
good point also trickster might be better for raid cause of higher "burst" during ar window
floral crown
probably means trickster gonna be better in damage amp fights right
like NPX and Seat
fathom bramble
there is also the often unmentioned fact that a ton of these bosses are tanked in ways that promote getting parried for portions of the encounter
daring yoke
Can someone give zac the green name on this discord plz
fathom bramble
if trickster and fate are equal, then that plus the burst means trickster is just better
trickster also has a better defensive talent, but that's incredibly minor after the cloud nerf we are getting
slim hare
probably means trickster gonna be better in damage amp fights right
in theory yes but it might not matter much if they are close enough also zac prefer fatebound more so he will try to play that if its not that far behind
the parry thing is probably undervalued tbh
fathom bramble
well in theory parry is a 3% damage loss to any source that can be parried for the time you spend in front of the boss
some of these fights have you standing in a parry area for enough time to matter
slim hare
only 3%
id imagine it was more than that
i remember getting kingsbane parried and prob have ptsd
slim hare
3% of qll kingsbane in front of boss
fathom bramble
yeah
slim hare
which is 100 of kkingsbane in front of boss on kill pull
fathom bramble
true
slim hare
and you know its true
fathom bramble
for outlaw where we are mostly a ton of tiny hits it probably doesn't have that kind of variance though
slim hare
for sure
fathom bramble
it'd just be around an actual 3% loss most of the time
slim hare
yes i can see that
fathom bramble
and then you can't parry bullets so we get a slight reduction in that loss as well just in general
fair sparrow
you know what would be sick
if blizz explained the idea behind nerfing cloud cover 2 weeks after its release with the first week seeing it bugged on energy cost
fathom bramble
I suspect the reason is just something like "Outlaws performance was increased by more than intended so we are pulling back on the overall increase to their damage while moving a portion of the buff out of trickster to allow for potentially increased hero talent diversity"
it's a bad reason
strange kelp
Zac was actually starting to be okay with outlaw, so they had to adjust that
fathom bramble
but it's the only one that lines up with anything
slim hare
they are not paid enough to have the shoulder to explain that publicly
fathom bramble
it is also possible and a bit damning that they just straight up didn't do the math for law
and just saw law is above sub and we both get the trickster nerf
slim hare
it is also possible and a bit damning that they just straight up didn't do the m...
you are too kind
strange kelp
I suspect the reason is just something like "Outlaws performance was increased b...
This man's has read a few to many balancing patches to write blizzards response to the letter
slim hare
you expect them to have done the math for tthe other spec
when we all know they didnt do math for devourer or dk once this expansion
strange kelp
We all knew DDH was going to be OP all season
slim hare
but one so much more likely
its so obvious they dont do math
its vibe tuning
i swear
strange kelp
If there was a safe choice to pick for what will be broken it's the brand new class just released
slim hare
cant explain it otherwise
fair sparrow
i know we like to meme about how other specs are doing but seriously i have a problem with how blizzard has been handling rogue lately
fair sparrow
for a while now rogue has seen features floated around or introduced and quickly gutted later
it genuinely feels like they have no idea where to go with the class
lunar thorn
Outlaw is just an afterthought, I have not seen any reason to give them the benefit of the doubt
fair sparrow
assa is literally just bug abusing out the ass to do damage
vivid vessel
I suspect the reason is just something like "Outlaws performance was increased b...
btw imo the nerf is unintended
dim parrot
Thought TWW was bad? Check this out
fathom bramble
all 3 specs are in the gutter
yeah it would be accurate to say we were the worst class in the game this tier
(so far)
vivid vessel
they tried to actually compensate with the aura buff but didnt know how much of a damage decrease it would be
proof look at sub
its almost perfectly balanced albeit a small buff
fair sparrow
sub ended up with a 2% buff
vivid vessel
second proof look at when trikcster came out
fathom bramble
and then just gave law 1% less since we are above sub rn
vivid vessel
they had no idea how much damage it would be
fathom bramble
and assumed it was fine
slim hare
not knowing we profited more from cloud cover than sub
fathom bramble
it's the same nerf after all
fair sparrow
they definitely knew outlaw got more from cloud cover than sub
thats why cloud cover was nerfed harder on outlaw
but i dont know why the compensation buff was lower
slim hare
i did
verbal lily
Im getting annoyed with these constant changes that makes the current spec i completely switched to less fun due to the amount of nerfs we're getting , while the rogue is midtier at most in it's current state. It feels like a bipolar girlfriend, first week we get nerfs, second week buffs, third week nerfs..I keep switching talents, switching specs for my raid team, I just want to commit to 1
strange kelp
Because outlaw was performing higher then sub at time of their decision
fathom bramble
they intentionally made outlaw cap at 2 stacks
I actually completely missed that this whole time
I thought it was the same on both
fair sparrow
nope
i mean it wouldnt matter how much more they nerfed it on sub because you dont even play cloud cover on sub anymore
they killed it for sub
covers one dance only
tender wedge
I didn’t spot that either, crazy work
fair sparrow
what a dumbass change
fathom bramble
guess they must've known then
fair sparrow
yes so they're aware it was better on outlaw
fathom bramble
obviously
fair sparrow
and gave outlaw a lower compensation buff
slim hare
so nerf is intentionnal?
fair sparrow
meaning they wanted to nerf outlaw
dim parrot
Sure but
fair sparrow
yes thats what it seems like
dim parrot
Doesn’t make sense
dim parrot
5% is t even slight tbh
slim hare
"slightly"
dim parrot
That’s a lot
fair sparrow
yes
fathom bramble
nerfing outlaw by more than specs that beat it by a lot doesn't make sense
dim parrot
Aug 2% is
fathom bramble
but it does kind of point to the nerf being intentional being a reasonable conclusion
fair sparrow
but either way even a slight nerf would not have made sense
slim hare
exactly
slim hare
either way
fair sparrow
or not bad but just not good
slim hare
it makes no sense
verbal lily
can i ask, if this nerf goes through tomorrow, should we actually switch to sub / assa instead of playing outlaw? is the nerf that bad for us to change ?
fair sparrow
which is why i would really like to see what the logic behind cloud cover's nerf is
strange kelp
I mean I think they did want to bring outlaw closer to the other rogues so gave it less compensation but then had no idea how much value cloud actually have
fair sparrow
can i ask, if this nerf goes through tomorrow, should we actually switch to sub ...
for what content
dim parrot
can i ask, if this nerf goes through tomorrow, should we actually switch to sub ...
Yes if u care about numbers
verbal lily
for what content
m+ and raid
dim parrot
If u like gameplay do w.e
fair sparrow
for raid sub has been the go to spec anyways
verbal lily
i wanna do whats best for my progression raid
fair sparrow
outlaw has been pretty decent
dim parrot
Sub is fine in m+ if u not pushing highest keys
fair sparrow
but post cloud cover you prob just go sub anyways
verbal lily
but post cloud cover you prob just go sub anyways
even in m+?
fair sparrow
no
dim parrot
Assa m+
fair sparrow
honestly
strange kelp
All three are fine in keys until you are pushing high keys
vivid vessel
sub is not great in m+
ye but assa is prolly already better on live pre nerfs
in keys
fair sparrow
you shouldnt even play rogue for m+
floral crown
I refuse to play assa 
fair sparrow
ye but assa is prolly already better on live pre nerfs
yeah i mean it has been
vivid vessel
like i think the only reason to play outlaw over assa in keys
fair sparrow
because their aoe is infinite
vivid vessel
is if you have arms
fair sparrow
outlaw needs exodia
vivid vessel
cause arms funnel is so op
fair sparrow
assa needs nothing
verbal lily
ye but assa is prolly already better on live pre nerfs
ure talking about m+ right?
vivid vessel
you dont want to steal it
i am
i think assa on live is either the same or better than outalw
pre outlaw nerf
strange kelp
ye but assa is prolly already better on live pre nerfs
Don't worry they'll randomly remove the internal bleeding transfer from CT and suddenly it will plummet
dim parrot
Assa doesn’t need raid buff that bad either
fair sparrow
its same if outlaw has the comp
its def better than outlaw if outlaw no comp
lmao
arctic merlin
All three are fine in keys until you are pushing high keys
bro it feels so shit when you're target capped and the tank just does an insane algethar, magisters, pit pull
fair sparrow
i dont think outlaw even comes close without phys comp
fathom bramble
the best 5th spec for your phys comp is just an aug anyway
which is incredibly silly
vivid vessel
the best 5th spec for your phys comp is just an aug anyway
i find it funny that there is like
strange kelp
bro it feels so shit when you're target capped and the tank just does an insane ...
That's literally outlaws life, every key lol
vivid vessel
prolly 5 specs better than outlaw
floral crown
gotta make sure our best buddies shammies are there for us with the skyfury
fathom bramble
a 2nd arms warr...
vivid vessel
prolly
last sierra
feral mabey?
vivid vessel
even dh idk why not
frail veldt
to fit in the outlaw comp
every time I tell people this they just point at the top keys that are done with outlaw
vivid vessel
feral is alraedy in lil bro
floral crown
a 2nd arms warr...
this is the main issue, this situation should never arise in a 5 player dungeon
arctic merlin
dh on aldrachi is good in phys, no?
last sierra
oh 
verbal lily
its sad cause this was my first time ever playing outlaw and i was enjoying it so much and i was gonna help my raid team playiing this and also do m+ with them, i got all the gear specifcally for this spec
vivid vessel
dh on aldrachi is good in phys, no?
i mean idk warrior buff is the same for every melee no
so like
strange kelp
prolly 5 specs better than outlaw
Man it still blows my mind every time in other discs when they are like "phys comp has to have outlaw" and it's just because you make it work lol
frail veldt
the simple fact is this
last sierra
thought we just counting war brew
vivid vessel
its not like dh is trolling there
frail veldt
outlaw needs the physical comp more than the physical comp needs the outlaw
floral crown
its sad cause this was my first time ever playing outlaw and i was enjoying it s...
Same bro, I wasted 6 bonus rolls to get the main hand from NPX
dim parrot
Havoc is good
arctic merlin
i mean idk warrior buff is the same for every melee no
i mean the dh funnel is based mostly on phys dmg
fathom bramble
phys comp doesn't need outlaw
fathom bramble
outlaw needs phys comp
dim parrot
Better raid buff for phys than rogue
vivid vessel
outlaw needs the physical comp more than the physical comp needs the outlaw
i mean i dont bring anything to the comp lol
surv would bring another raid buff
frail veldt
thats what im sayin haha
strange kelp
i mean the dh funnel is based mostly on phys dmg
I don't think they run funnel hero tree atm
verbal lily
Same bro, I wasted 6 bonus rolls to get the main hand from NPX
sorry to hhear that ;/
vivid vessel
for example
frail veldt
outlaw needs the comp more than the comp needs the outlaw
vivid vessel
ret would bring externals
frail veldt
the outlaw brings nothing
vivid vessel
would go crazy to external the cat
arctic merlin
I don't think they run funnel hero tree atm
no, they don't, but it's not terrible, it's actually p nice in some dungeons
strange kelp
I personally really like bansherz comp
vivid vessel
dk would bring grip + ranged kick
strange kelp
For phys
vivid vessel
would go absolutely crazy in this comp
dim parrot
Bubble sac and freedom, bop are great
vivid vessel
we struggle a lot with adds casting afar
frail veldt
dk would bring grip + ranged kick
and all the mechanics you can cheat with ams
vivid vessel
a dk would legit solo carry this comp
- dk is so tanky
like dk rn
instead of rogue
in our comp
or instead of feral
would legit
make the comp so much better
radiant wyvern
ranged, infinite defensives, ignores all mechanics
vivid vessel
idk how people dont realize that you can make our comp better
by removing outlaw or feral
verbal lily
dk would bring grip + ranged kick
you know whats crazy, ive been top dps a lot in m+ keys, mainly around 15, and i was doing this one m+ with a unholy dk, 268 ilvl, im 281, and he outdps'd me during every aoe pull , and i was only topping him during ST boss fights
vivid vessel
for legit 5 other specs
vivid vessel
ye for sure
strange kelp
Does dk get much value from mystic touch? Idk if it buffs pets
vivid vessel
anythign is
vivid vessel
Does dk get much value from mystic touch? Idk if it buffs pets
idk but war and shaman is huge for dk
and dk tops every key rn without these buffs
strange kelp
True
buoyant stratus
or instead of feral
Ive been saying this
vivid vessel
omegalul
arctic merlin
Does dk get much value from mystic touch? Idk if it buffs pets
should, it counts as dk dmg dealt, no?
floral crown
ok zac hear me out
buoyant stratus
Dk brez, tanky, amz big ST
floral crown
what if you replace feral with devourer, outlaw with augment and arms with dk
strange kelp
should, it counts as dk dmg dealt, no?
Pets are always weird, like BM has similar issues
dim parrot
I been playing brew Rsham dk and ddh all keys lol
buoyant stratus
Benefits from skyfury and bshout
summer nimbus
would dk take funnel from arms
buoyant stratus
Seems no brainer
vivid vessel
like if i was to remake our comp rn
i would take a dk instead of a feral
just cause we need a grip + ranged kick so bad
we cant deal with all these adds that are far
glass mortar
feral has a ranged kick
buoyant stratus
And a ddh instead of outlaw..
buoyant stratus
And aug instead of warrior
glass mortar
xd
buoyant stratus
Wait a second!
glass mortar
its a bleed spec bro just leap away from the pack broooo
oblique flicker
I really don't understand what all the dooming is about, Im 100% sure solo will post a new HO cook which will make us comparable with dk any minute now 🤡
summer nimbus
yea outlaw also has ranged kick
fathom bramble
btw the trickster passive tankiness increase clearly did something meaningful for us in raid @vivid vessel . I know some people(not you) were skeptical and I just wanted to put it out there that it actually did make a massive shift in the stats
rough oriole
@summer nimbus 
fathom bramble
1st image is a snapshot from right before the patch
summer nimbus
hi drot, i invited you to a key but you were afk!
fathom bramble
2nd image is warcraftlogs right now
rough oriole
Wait shut really FUCK
vivid vessel
1st image is a snapshot from right before the patch
i feel like its weird to look at it tho cause
rough oriole
I didn’t realize
rough oriole
rough oriole
I’m on tonight if you wanna run keys corn dog :3
fathom bramble
it's mostly reelative to the other rogue specs that I think it shows
vivid vessel
raid you take 0 damage anwyay
fathom bramble
not our overeall standing
cerulean portal
guys, do i bonus roll in pit? bis right?
fathom bramble
raid you take 0 damage anwyay
try carrying a crystal on lura and say that again
we must kill lura tonight
summer nimbus
I’m on tonight if you wanna run keys corn dog :3
maybe, i am tired af tho lol
fathom bramble
before I am nerfed
deft mason
@vivid vessel look what is wrong with this pic
vivid vessel
try carrying a crystal on lura and say that again
does it even work on crystal damage
floral crown
zac are you gonna go assa?
fathom bramble
yeah
heavy shard
idk how i survive next week
floral crown
or are u committing
fathom bramble
crystal damage is sourced from the boss
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> look what is wrong with this pic
ye you cant cloak that aoe
or idk
if thats what you are showing
rough oriole
maybe, i am tired af tho lol
You’re good, I appreciate the invite regardless hopefully next time I’m not afk :3
buoyant stratus
idk how i survive next week
Dont get targetted by any mechanic
deft mason
even our defensives dont work
buoyant stratus
Problem solved
dim parrot
MT still the worst
buoyant stratus
!
nova sinew
last boss skyreach on outlaw lol
buoyant stratus
I love untelegraphwd damage!!!
peak dock
vivid vessel
i have legitimately been thinknig about pressing a macro on certain pull
for cds
on casts btw
dusty magnet
idk how i survive next week
elusiveness
vivid vessel
elusiveness
ok ty will think about it
buoyant stratus
Cloak for uptime real and true
dim parrot
Lolll
radiant wyvern
thats smart
buoyant stratus
Deadened nerves angle lil bro
vivid vessel
it was hard !
buoyant stratus
5% phys dr
dusty magnet
elusiveness too op
buoyant stratus
Insaneoooo
summer nimbus
have u considered combat stamina
fathom bramble
I don't understand why dots just randomly have "Cannot be dodged, parried or blocked"
long bramble
i actually went in an academy 21 with raid build yesterday
it happened to me in a seat 18 i was panicking
fathom bramble
it breaks cloak
buoyant stratus
Mayhaps thiefs versatility?
long bramble
impossible to survive
fathom bramble
and I don't understand why a spell would even neeed this
vivid vessel
it happened to me in a seat 18 i was panicking
i told my helaer to heal me
he did
i procced cheat only once !
buoyant stratus
Damn... low value talent
dusty magnet
in high keys without elusiveness ull just die to mechanics
frail veldt
i procced cheat only once !
you run cheat in m+?
buoyant stratus
If u dont proc once every 8 minutes youre losing value
frail veldt
how are you not perma dead
buoyant stratus
Cmon bro
vivid vessel
you run cheat in m+?
i was in raid build
frail veldt
ah
summer nimbus
honestly theres not that much dmg in algethar besides second boss and maybe the echo knights pull
fathom bramble
bring back 90 second cd cheat tbh
taken away because of tomb of sargeras soaks
and we never got it back
and almost every new soak mechanic has a minimum player limit anyway...
buoyant stratus
No no thats how u get value from ur 8 min cd
long bramble
is feint even doing anything here without elus
vivid vessel
is feint even doing anything here without elus
i dont think so
indigo token
to be fair
indigo token
+21
buoyant stratus
Imagine holding ur 8 minute
long bramble
just muscle memory
vivid vessel
my health went very low
long bramble
i guess ajhaha
slim hare
glad u are nerfed you were doing too much dmg there
fathom bramble
i dont think so
feint only reduces part of the final tick
vivid vessel
i actually cloaked the circle right after or i was dead again
fathom bramble
it has an aoe hit that coincides with the final tick at the end of the spell
it's honestly probably a bug that it even ticks on expire when it also explodes...
but you know
vivid vessel
it has an aoe hit that coincides with the final tick at the end of the spell
i mean does it
fathom bramble
been like that forever
fathom bramble
i'm pretty sure feint works on 1 of the 2 hits it does at the end
though not 100% since I haven't checked lately
like the ticks themselves are doing 20%
fathom bramble
and you drop from 50% to 0% on the expire
so maybe it's not reduced ig
unless the tick at the end would normally hit for like 70% of your life at that key level
vivid vessel
its prolly cause farogers
like
these keys level this season
its so stupid
everything you die from
long bramble
is there way to contact this guy i want my name
buoyant stratus
feint doesnt work on 90% of the dmg in these dungs
Just so youre aware, almost everyone in this channel knows this
vivid vessel
is just jumper mobs
without cds
that one shot you
every key has at least one of these mobs
taht ruin the dungeon
you will die
its jsut how it is
cant cd def
cant cc
you dont know when it happens
buoyant stratus
Route around them bri
vivid vessel
its blizzard new design
vivid vessel
we are the first to shroud the shredders lil bro !
dim parrot
elusiveness
Look up Tomelvis on raider io
buoyant stratus
Ye i stole ur route
vivid vessel
now explain to me
buoyant stratus
I like the windrunner tech
buoyant stratus
Pulling 6 probably illegal atp
summer nimbus
Have u ever heard of the 6 echo knight pull
buoyant stratus
Let a man cook
dusty magnet
pre feint/pre evasion the foragers
vivid vessel
pre feint/pre evasion the foragers
ye bro i have 100% uptime on evasion and feint
!
buoyant stratus
Still can randomly die tho
vivid vessel
so easy actually
fathom bramble
i swear the last hit one shotted me there
looking at this log the explosion of the bomb is definitely mitigated more than the ticks by feint
floral crown
didnt know we had feint
fathom bramble
this log has elusiveness so it's not quite as big of a difference though
dusty magnet
lmao i used to push world 1-2 keys
just came back tot he game
not trolling
but u can feint - evasion - feint - feint for like 20% dr for 30secs
and if u get circle insta cloak
dusty magnet
should be saving hpot pot of that as well
dusty magnet
what about next circle
cry and die
summer nimbus
Honestly shredders are less of an issue for rogues and more for the rest of the party who dont have low cds like feint
fathom bramble
to 1 bomb
fathom bramble
every pull has a few foragers
fathom bramble
there isn't really a forager pull
dusty magnet
so whats the specific pull pain point
daring yoke
If theoretically we get 10% aura buff instead of 5%, would fb be better in all content?
dusty magnet
foragers slap
buoyant stratus
Cybernetic enhancements
vivid vessel
so whats the specific pull pain point
i was mostly complaining about how dungeon design this tier
is just
every dungeon have a jumper mob
and it scales very badly
with key level
ther is no cd on plate
they will jump every x s
and do half your hp
any overlap you are dead
any double jump you are dead
every key is like that
there is that one mob
tough ocean
real
vivid vessel
that isnt designed for high keys
dusty magnet
true
vivid vessel
jumper mob
buoyant stratus
Windrunner abomination pull
tough ocean
make leaps bad again
fathom bramble
I just realized my first image is the boss one not the trash one @vivid vessel
but they are the same logic
except for some reason the mana void explosion is environment
so trickster doesn't reduce it
buoyant stratus
Mirror angle?!??!
floral crown
I'm prayin to whatever is holy that we will never see that Den of Nalorakk or whatever it's called in a season
buoyant stratus
floral crown
Has to be in the top 5 worst dungeons made
vivid vessel
Mirror angle?!??!
idk
i feel like
outlaw lacks passive dr
i feel fine when i can feint the damage
buoyant stratus
I'm prayin to whatever is holy that we will never see that Den of Nalorakk or wh...
Next season bud
vivid vessel
most of the times
like the pull we do 4 big aoe dudes
im legit chilling whole pull
i can tank the whole pack
vivid vessel
but anything else
im perma dying
these foragers pulls are so scary your hp just drop randomly to 10%
nothing happened
they just jumped
floral crown
Next season bud
Please dont do this to me :(
hallow spoke
does anything stop the attacks like statue in priory
vivid vessel
look at my feral hp here