#outlaw

1 messages · Page 802 of 1

vivid vessel
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no i just did tank damage first pull

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vast mauve
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@vivid vessel is outlaw + aug in keys just giga bad

vivid vessel
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idk its prolly alright now

buoyant stratus
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Aug players just suck

vast mauve
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ty chads

glass mortar
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aug is fine with every1

daring venture
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yo guys, is the patch coming up an upgrade or a downgrade ?

glass mortar
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as long as u scale with primary

vivid vessel
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btw this is 5min30

glass mortar
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which is every1 right now

vivid vessel
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period

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so thats just a full sim without winning the 50 50

glass mortar
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its so funny zac

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im getting dogged on paladin prog most pulls

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lower middle of the pack

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any pull where i just spam roll 2 buff

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im barely a player

vivid vessel
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:D

glass mortar
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had 2 pulls where i was 90% jackpot and 3 buff

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and i was in the top 4 dps

vivid vessel
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cant believe we went from a rtb that wasnt rng

glass mortar
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same gameplay

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same mistakes (just a couple)

vivid vessel
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to a rng that is the most rng its ever been

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cause noobs complained

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about rtb

glass mortar
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i know we meme rng spec

vivid vessel
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being rng

glass mortar
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parsing has never felt this rng to me tho

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how much ur rtb swings ur damage is crazzzzzy

livid kindle
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ye bring back old rtb

glass mortar
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nah just

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idk

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accept we should normally be 90% 3 buff + uptime

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make it so kir grants +1 buff level

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be done with it

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the low rolls are too low

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the variance is too high again

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y did they do this

livid kindle
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i mean simplyfied rtb is just worse for me also worse with kir

carmine mountain
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Wait, we never ambush like ever so I can remove it from my bar completely?

glass mortar
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yes

dim parrot
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Getting 6th roll last second and hitting kir was def more peak

summer nimbus
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i can understand why they wanted to simplify rtb with the weak aura purge tho

fathom bramble
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ironic that I still need a WA for new rtb

glass mortar
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ok also let me talk about that

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i feel like i understated

merry harness
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old rtb was really nice with zac weakaura ngl

glass mortar
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how unplayable the RtB bug was in raid friday night

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i had bosses where every other roll was vanishing

livid kindle
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i mean outlaw is just spec when you need wa and zacs cdm is about the same as it was

glass mortar
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i had a boss where a single kir extended jackpot vanished, came back, vanished again, then came back again

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all over a 40s window

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what the fuk is happening

carmine mountain
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i kept losing my rtb during bosses how stupid is that

glass mortar
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it is remarkably worse then it was a few weeks ago

dim parrot
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That happpened to me too last night

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First time I ever noticed

fathom bramble
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I had it straight up flickering on lura last night

dim parrot
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Just on paladins HC b

fathom bramble
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like on and off several times in 5 seconds

dim parrot
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But it happened a bunch

glass mortar
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like this is a rediculious level of bugged to be for a very important mechanic in basic ui

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i dont have a single addon for it

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and i was doing ok because i notice when it happens now and it was only happening like 1-2 times a night for me last patch

remote pecan
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try setting it as a bar

glass mortar
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now its literally happening 5+ times a fight

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??????????????

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crazy

hazy siren
carmine mountain
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yeah same besides my cdm just to see my freaking rtb but like instead of nerfing our dmg maybe fix the freaking existing bugs yeah?

glass mortar
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yes u have the buff

merry harness
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Guys what season was outlaw rota the best it ever was?

glass mortar
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its very annoying to track it using the actual buff since its u know up in the corner and u r constantly gaining and losing buffs

hazy siren
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Yeah i thought my BCDM was buggin, it was vanishing aswell

glass mortar
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but u still can which is why i dont have the WA yet

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but now im considering getting it

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because holy fuk raid prog was almost unplayable

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trying to track my RtB and my bugged RtB and do the fight

cinder relic
dim parrot
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I have the WA idk why it wasn’t working on paladins last night

livid kindle
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for me most fun gameplay was venthyr outlaw s4 or 3 SL

cinder relic
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(which ppl also didn't like at the time)

carmine mountain
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winds of winter kyrian rogue i had an amazing time xD

trail cape
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I liked BFA

livid kindle
summer nimbus
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people will always find something to complain about

fathom bramble
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shadowlands dust Kyrian or shadowlands Necrolord probably

trail cape
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shadowlands was also pretty good times

fathom bramble
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I'm alsotempted to say legion Season2 but it was so long ago it might not be real

dim parrot
glass mortar
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mace stun combat rogue pvp was the best outlaw rogue

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😎

carmine mountain
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man i forgot about that

vivid vessel
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kyrian dust

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or sbs in keys

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with lego

carmine mountain
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sbs keys

keen belfry
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what was kyrian dust or sbs

fathom bramble
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guys Zac is copying my opinion

keen belfry
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someone xplain to me

carmine mountain
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so many combo points

vivid vessel
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tww outlaw could have peaked

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but

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no acro

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so

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and killing spree

glass mortar
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s2 outlaw rogue without kspree woulda been peak

vivid vessel
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ruined it all

glass mortar
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yea i was gunna say

vivid vessel
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ye

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s2 is best

glass mortar
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id give that as my peak but kspree ruins it

vivid vessel
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if you ignore ks

carmine mountain
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yeah no more range on acrobatic strikes is so garbage

keen belfry
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s3 was banger too

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s3 was so fun

livid kindle
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yeah kyr was good too

keen belfry
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ignore tuning

glass mortar
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new kspree bleah

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and boring fatebound on ST

livid kindle
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i mean SL was just good for outlaw

glass mortar
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i mean all of crackshot was peak for me

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crackshot itself was peak

keen belfry
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ye just crackshot

glass mortar
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its unfortunate they never finished its design

keen belfry
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all u need

glass mortar
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and it always had some form of annoying hang on like kspree to spoil a season

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crackshot > kyrian dust > rest for me

fathom bramble
glass mortar
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if i had to give true answer counting in the fact that every crackshot season had some stinky design spoiling it would be kyrian > crackshot by a little bit

trail cape
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necro outlaw was sick

fathom bramble
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SBS had a legendary that made it hit 2 extra nearby enemies

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which is when it really took off

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took off in keys at least since that legendary unfortunately was basically useless in raid

buoyant stratus
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Yall think the s2/s3 tier set is gonna be based around apex talents

vivid vessel
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hopefully they remove our apex

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and we get a real one

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instead of copy pasted ace

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like xd

buoyant stratus
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And that it becomes (2) Between the eyes also hits with a Scoundrel Strike and (4) Between the eyes has no cooldown in stealth, also renamed crackshot

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Smile

merry harness
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it feels like we are just always 2 season behind in design quality

elfin grotto
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Bruh I've done 50 Skyreaches and still no trinket

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Tweaking atp 😄

merry harness
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They ship some patched up version of the new stuff and then fix us up at some latter point

ebon maple
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would you change anything with this ui

Screenshot_2026-05-03_124011.png
merry harness
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Yeah

ebon maple
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im curious to see how others have their ui set up

cinder relic
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I'm sure Ive mentioned it before but I remember how much ire there was towards the sl covenant abilities for being all fairly low impact numerically compared to shit like convoke, ravenous frenzy

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I remember the old wowhead writer hating the er mini game too on reveal

vivid vessel
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i always loved it

trail cape
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i thought ER was fun

vivid vessel
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covenant system was just dogshit in general

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not nececesseray the abilities

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tho the night fae one ..

fathom bramble
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thee fact that we went night fae early while it had the weakest and worst cov skill was quite disappointing

keen belfry
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cov was so bad

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ill never forget not having a covent for 2 weks cuz i wanted to play venthyr on launch

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as spriest

worthy scaffold
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it was kinda funny in PVP tho

livid kindle
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ER was fun flag miniburst window was fun sbs was fine too i never hated on sl gameplay

vivid vessel
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sbs in st tho was kinda lame

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it was just super cool in keys

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thats why it would have been cool to just be able to swap cov freely :D

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whta an idea

livid kindle
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yeah

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what is not fine though is unjustyfied nerfs fu blizzard

valid hound
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did we get any hope news

cursive hamlet
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Someone did the maths for the nerf ? and will you still play trickster ?

valid hound
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its in pinned

cursive hamlet
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thanks

novel isle
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enlarge

elfin obsidian
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lads, sorry for asking u've heard this alot probs: on trickster bte procc, do we send at 5 cp or build to 6+?

frail veldt
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there was so much to farm

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and there was so much power in that system

runic stream
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does anyone else have the problem that cdm doesn't consistently track roll the bones?

novel isle
frail veldt
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I think im gona do the thing others do and just move all my cc out to its own area though

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ive played this one block thing for so long and got so used to it but im feeling the need for change lol

inland acorn
frail veldt
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but yeah this center thing is pretty standard as far as UIs go so I'd prob rearrange yours to be more symmetric and remove info that doesnt need to be in the middle

pastel cloud
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am i doing something wrong or does outlaw deal 0 dmg in dreamrift

frail veldt
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something wrong prob

soft abyss
frail veldt
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at least with the icon

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pins have a note for it if you want to get a weak aura to fix it

fathom bramble
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wonder if you could 'fix' the icon by using the arcui bar with an icon at the end of it and set the bar color and background to 0% opacity 🤔

soft abyss
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For me as a new outlaw the icon was a bit hard to understand 100% of the time so I was like ok just go bar and easier to read words

compact wigeon
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!prekey

ornate heathBOT
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  • Use adr Adrenaline Rush to activate loaded_dice Loaded Dice.
  • As Trickster, use ks KS to activate talent_disorientingstrikes Disorienting Strikes.
  • Do NOT use rtb RTB before the key, you will lose it.
  • Use snd SND during the bubble once the key starts.
fair charm
# frail veldt

Personally I don’t wanna track something like tricks in the middle of the screen but if it works for you, enjoy.

frail veldt
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its nice as fatebound

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you kinda need to know when its up/down

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or you just die lol

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as trickster I could remove it

earnest plover
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hello, im a returning player to outlaw since TWW. is there a good way to track RTB buffs? it seems hellish with base UI, any help would be great :)

frail veldt
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just base UI and watching the icon

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no special tricks or anything

vivid vessel
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cooldown manager

frail veldt
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theres only 4 stages now so its pretty simple

compact wigeon
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there's only one buff to track on rtb

gaunt phoenix
earnest plover
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i have both BF and RTB added to my tracker bars but not showing?

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nvm i fix

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i cannot believe WA died for this

copper radish
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From 6 bones to 4… next rework gonna be just one mega bones buff 😂

long bramble
fathom bramble
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I mean the current buff is kind of just 1 buff with 4 stacks

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just implemented in a way that changees the icon

frail veldt
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yeah were at 1 buff lol

fathom bramble
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and breaks my cdm...

earnest plover
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also adrenaline rush uptime seems a lot lower, is this the case?

quaint sable
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Lower compared to TWW definitely.

frail veldt
quaint sable
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With how the reroll system works if I dont get a piece that has good stats is it just better to take tokens?

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Just havent had much time to play yet and still learning this new system

gaunt phoenix
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Yes

earnest plover
quaint sable
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Cause I got both a crit/verse cloak and crit/verse ring so probs just taken tokens.

manic quartz
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from the talent tree what talent point can i take off to get slight of hand?

compact wigeon
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in m+?

manic quartz
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yea

compact wigeon
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acrobatic

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strikes

cursive hamlet
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acrobatic strikes if you still got it

compact wigeon
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probably

manic quartz
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do you guys perfer slight of hand?

glass mortar
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yes

compact wigeon
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its better for sure

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for better rolls

glass mortar
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reduces variance

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barely sims lower

compact wigeon
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acrobatic is not that great in aoe anyway

glass shard
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thank you blizzard

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surely this is puggable

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:clueless:

low venture
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Do we just wrap up for this spec for the season? Or are we overreacting?

cinder relic
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Think ur overreacting a bit

shy meteor
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I mean dmg wise outlaw or rogue in general is okay it’s not that bad

low venture
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I mean the issue is why would you bring a rogue this season when you can bring a ret or a warrior for more utility. That’s the issue right?

final pagoda
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it has been the issue forever

shy meteor
final pagoda
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atrophic was supposed to sligthly improve it

cinder relic
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If Ur talking about raid, it's about as useful as either warrior or ret

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If Ur talking about dungeons, yeah idk

final pagoda
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it definitely doesnt help that atrophic doesnt work properly many times

low venture
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M+

shy meteor
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I was talking about m+

cinder relic
low venture
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Blizz Minigame 😂

final pagoda
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they should remove invi pot so shroud becomes more valuable

final pagoda
shy meteor
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Doesnt change much tbh because every bigger mob hat true sight

low venture
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They have a lot of critical mobs that can see stealth

fathom bramble
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atrophic works properly 95% of the timee

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and is 20% stronger than devotion aura

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you do the math

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almost everything is sourced from the boss in any given encounter even if it looks like it is not

shy meteor
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And my personal hot take is that utility is bait

low venture
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Ret brings heal, sac, loh, freedom, mass stun in pit. You can’t compare lol

fathom bramble
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like on lura even the ticking damage from holding a crystal is sourced from the boss

cinder relic
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For some reason atrophic doesn't work on 1 Boss every other tier, and people just say "well it barley works"

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I don't really know why

fathom bramble
low venture
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Rogue should be like other games where the class that doesn’t bring utility goes crazy in damage

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But it’s sad

shy meteor
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All ur utilities don’t matter if u don’t do dmg

fathom bramble
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but in the context of raidbuffs and blaming atrophics alleged downfalls it is relevant how strong atro actually is compared to other raidbuffs

cinder relic
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Ppl also seem to miss the entire context of why rogue was sat this tier in raid

fathom bramble
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I mean yeah we can split hairs over utility all day, but at the end of the day a damaging raidbuff or higher tuning is just better lol

shy meteor
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Remember bfa corruption fire mage that shit was dying just by existing and u needed to bring dps that could live so ur healer just focused on the mage

cinder relic
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It wasn't atro not working it was, rogue was unplayable on 2 of the hard bosses

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Followed by damage needing to be so tight to 2 phase beloren being slightly worse mattered

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And then it was played on lura so

mighty pivot
cinder relic
fathom bramble
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it also works better than devo does on lura btw

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since you spend so much time spread out or in opposite phases

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as long as you put rogue on left side in p3 since that's where the real copy of the boss goes

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and all the damage is sourced from that onee

cinder relic
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Yer

shy meteor
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I just think that the rogue has the problem that our buttons have been power crept and the player base shrunk to this extent so it doesn’t even matter if we would shut down this server like paladins

cinder relic
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The paladin shutdown didn't do anything

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I feel like ppl didn't actually follow the timeline of that entire thing

fathom bramble
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paladin shutdown and paladin buff were both caused by paladin needing buffs

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if you shutdown the discord while your spec is in dire straits right before a tuning patch odds are you were getting buffed anyway

shy meteor
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No it didn’t but it caused attraction

fathom bramble
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at least on a 1 dps spec class

cinder relic
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It didn't really though

mighty pivot
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attracting attention doesn't mean they buff the spec faster or more

shy meteor
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But everybody knows about it

cinder relic
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I just hate that they did this because I'm literally going to have to hear about this for the next 6+ years

fathom bramble
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try 10+

cinder relic
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Ppl are asking us to "host a vote to see if the community wants a shutdown"

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Like just explode instead actually

shy meteor
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That’s nuts

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Rogue gate 2026

cinder relic
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The bigger issue with rogue utility is that dungeons don't ask for single target cc spam. Back when rogue was op in dungeons, it was because rogue could kidney, into gouge, into vanish cheapshot and it mattered

gaunt phoenix
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true

fathom bramble
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just let BF copy kidneyshot

cinder relic
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I mean bro literally every single week it's fucking

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"guys we aren't s tier we need to shutdown the discord"

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Like shut up omggg

cinder relic
fathom bramble
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sounds fine to me

cinder relic
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We need it

shy meteor
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I mean I’m not running 20+ or so I’m doing my 16-17 and I like how Ourlaw plays

jolly geyser
cinder relic
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Spec is fun!

fathom bramble
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ourlaw

shy meteor
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The only thing which bothers me is the ss after ps to get +6cp

shy meteor
fathom bramble
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I would actually really like our raidbuff to be a class passive instead of costing a utility poison slot and talent point

lean flax
fathom bramble
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other than like

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tuning

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that's our most annoying utility thing

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to me

mighty pivot
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even with dr no longer becoming an immunity it still feels bad to send a kidney for a millisecond stun

cinder relic
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I mean it didn't exist back in bfa

fathom bramble
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Kidney shot is no longer effected by diminishing returns(pve only), costs no combo points, but the cooldown is increased by 125%

cinder relic
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You usually WOULDN'T aoe cc on a lot of packs because the rogue could solo control it

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Cuz like the worms in underrot would do a frontal that you would full kidney, into gouge, into vanish cheap, into dead

fathom bramble
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I swear you were better off just dodging the worm instead of wasting 36 gcds controlling it

desert tendon
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back then when rogue was king of crowd control because only 1 mob would cast in a pack

fathom bramble
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and that's a hill I will die on

lapis meadow
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are we pretty much dead in M+ outside of phys comp in higher keys?

desert tendon
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not playing right now but it seems they get away from the 10 casters per pack shit we got for the last 3 expac

floral crown
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so based on the pinned comment, ~6% ST and ~4% nerf overall, does that mean we'll see about 5% less dps than we'd usually do?

craggy barn
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did we have this much aoe cc back in bfa

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not us as rogues

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but in general

floral crown
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e.g. 150k overall becomes 142k

fathom bramble
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most of the aoe stuns in the game were still present in bfa

shy meteor
fathom bramble
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some random non-stun aoe cc wasn't here yet I think

cinder relic
fathom bramble
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but a lot of packs just had 1 dangerous mob that you would rather single cc

shy meteor
desert tendon
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most of them were already here yea, but they were less relevant. Maybe i m just nostalgiatalking

cinder relic
craggy barn
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cant wait for BFA classic

cinder relic
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The game was just asking u to do different things back then

fathom bramble
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there is also still very real uses for a single cc in these dungeons

craggy barn
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ye zac does it

floral crown
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seat single cc is quite nice

craggy barn
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gouge lord

cinder relic
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Having a 2 second aoe stun wasn't very useful in bfa

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Just cuz how the dungeons were designed

craggy barn
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aoe blind is a huge crutch because nameplates suck

desert tendon
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in DF s2 my only purpose when i was invited was to spam cheapshot as sub. And i enjoyed it

floral crown
desert tendon
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coming from rbg, it's pretty similar

cinder relic
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But they've moved away from that which leaves rogues niche less useful

floral crown
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It is a really bad design if theres no special use case for a class

cinder relic
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But also like, rogues niche has gotten way better lol

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Kidney is 8 and cheap is 6

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It just, isn't as useful as it used to be

craggy barn
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yea but cheap is a cd now too

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sadge

cinder relic
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Just because a niche isn't useful right now doesn't mean one doesn't exist

craggy barn
#

cheap is so rough to use in some dungeons bc u needa save vanish for some packs

fathom bramble
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"kidneyshot prison" is definitely a niche that is sometimes useful

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no one else has a stun this long

cinder relic
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Like balance druid still has the niche that balance always has, it just isn't useful in this raid

floral crown
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or let me rephrase, it's a bad design if you're better off doing duplicates of one class rather than bringing others with

fathom bramble
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and we can follow it up with a very respectable cheapshot too

cinder relic
floral crown
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yes

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classic was notoriously badly designed

cinder relic
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I'm saying literally every expac is poorly designed then

floral crown
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eh

craggy barn
#

badly balanced by today's standard of hyper competitive balance nonsense

cinder relic
#

There hasn't been a single expansion in the games history where class stacking isn't useful

floral crown
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You're always going to class stack in raids, I mean more in terms of M+

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Theres just so many spots in a raid that duplicates will always happen

vivid vessel
cinder relic
#

How often are classes stacked in keys rn

cinder relic
craggy barn
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i think u rite zac

cinder relic
#

I do noob keys and it feels useful

craggy barn
#

cheap does suck to use in some spots bc vanish is so useful defensively

floral crown
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Point is, in a phys comp you can replace rogues with any class because we dont bring anything to the table

cinder relic
#

That's an entirely different poijt

floral crown
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No, the point is that classes should have better use cases and the environment around us should accommodate to that

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both of the previous arguments tie to that

lapis meadow
#

hey theres like one route ive done this tier that uses shroud

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thats something

cinder relic
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This was your original claim

Screenshot_20260503_170713_Discord.jpg
mighty pivot
#

bring back locked doors and traps in dungeons frfr

craggy barn
#

we have "traps"

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in dungeons

floral crown
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yes?

craggy barn
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dungeon

cinder relic
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Idt any meta comps rn class stack

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Arent they all diffy now

craggy barn
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meta is 1 + 1 + aug

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take your pick of dk ddh or demo

floral crown
#

That's meta though, not everything has to revolve around meta - otherwise we could simply delete every class and spec that isnt in meta each season

shadow trellis
floral crown
#

rogue isnt part of meta, but that still doesnt mean we couldnt have our uses

cinder relic
#

I mean we do, it's st cc

floral crown
#

which... many others can

cinder relic
#

What spec has better st cc than rogue rn

fathom bramble
#

I'm not sure what your vision is for "uses" in this context

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almost every spec is just brought to keys for their damage

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except specific buff classes that actually have a good buff for the comp

floral crown
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not just their damage, but contribution to damage

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but also cc and stuff to handle difficult pulls

dim parrot
#

Damaging raid buff or lust is only thing that would increase rogue value

vivid vessel
#

tbf

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warrior has kidney basically

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doesnt cost cps

lapis meadow
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thematically hunter's mark damage% should have been mark for death

craggy barn
#

bro i hate using kidney

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people dont let u kidney fist

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first

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its annoyingaf

keen belfry
#

vallz arguing kinda goated cuz he keeps changing his point to counter guy

craggy barn
#

max cp kidney for full duration into a DR

keen belfry
#

literally goated

craggy barn
#

giga cucked

cinder relic
vivid vessel
#

no its longer

cinder relic
#

Is it 5

vivid vessel
#

i think its 2s less than kindye

cinder relic
#

No way stormbolt is 6

vivid vessel
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but its ranged

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and it doesnt cost cps

shadow trellis
floral crown
vivid vessel
#

kidney is annoying to actually do a full cp kidney

#

i feel like its kinda fake

fathom bramble
#

idk I swear it's 4

keen belfry
vivid vessel
#

cause you need to have full cp when you press it

cinder relic
lapis meadow
#

how is that twisting words

cinder relic
#

Unless there's a thane talent that makes it 6

craggy barn
fathom bramble
floral crown
fathom bramble
#

but yeeah it's 4 on the retail version too anyway 😛

cinder relic
craggy barn
floral crown
#

dunno, the problem is likely just there's too many specs, hard to give unique characteristics to each one, much less making them all valuable

polar niche
#

adamntine sharpening stone is good?

cinder relic
#

How the game works is that u take an op spec damage wise and then u realize "Woah look at all this crazy utility they have"

floral crown
#

Didn't that game try to solve exactly that problem with M+? fuck what was it called

#

it came out on Steam

#

never actually tried it, should maybe try it

craggy barn
#

remember venge dh meta

#

really strong tank survivability

dim parrot
#

I have ele sham alt and its op as fk for m+ not including the damage it brings

craggy barn
#

plus giga cc

#

still has giga cc, not strong as a tank rn, not meta

dim parrot
#

Lust and skyfury together is broken

cinder relic
#

When/if rogue is op, people will talk about how insane kidney is

craggy barn
#

like in pvp

shadow trellis
craggy barn
#

outlaw in pvp is op af, and people are complaining

#

once rogue is out no one says a thing

floral crown
dim parrot
#

It’s like boomie beam s2 tww everyone says is so OP

#

Haven’t heard of it aince

cinder relic
dim parrot
#

Yeah

floral crown
#

Yeah you have to keep "selling" the game with new stuff -> powercreep

#

classic

dim parrot
#

Yeah they just did that we got cool new talent and damage buff in .5

#

Sike

vivid vessel
#

we play rogue

#

i think there is like 2 instances in dungeons rn

#

where its cool to have long cc

#

when i said st cc are cool i more meant that its nice to have a lot of st stops

#

but like

cinder relic
#

I agree but you have to see what I'm saying right

vivid vessel
#

no i dont

dim parrot
#

Stunning riftstalkwrs feels good in seat

cinder relic
#

When a spec is overtuned, people always hype up its utility

vivid vessel
#

because this is true for most specs

#

and then rogue has nothing

cinder relic
#

That's my point

dim parrot
#

Hmm

slim hare
#

so your point is they do more dmg AND have huge utility ?

floral crown
#

So foreverguy, do you think the outlaw nerfs were warranted this patch?

dim parrot
#

Welol gouge and blind are ass so we just talking about kidney and cheap shot really

cinder relic
slim hare
#

BTW guy have you seen the hunter bad post ? when is ours coming ?

shadow trellis
#

I dont feel like Guy is debating against Rogue guys

fluid iron
floral crown
dim parrot
#

Yeah we need publicity about the nerf tbh

fathom bramble
#

we didn't even get put in the headline for the wowhead post

dim parrot
#

I cancelled my subscription as a bluff but I’ll renew w.e they do

fathom bramble
#

when we got the largest nerf on the list

craggy barn
#

guy has been publicly in the camp of blizzard shilling and saying that we got what we deserved

#

(real)

mighty pivot
#

guy personally emailed the rogue dev to get outlaw nerfed

dim parrot
#

Hahahaha

craggy barn
#

guy has poisoned the water supply

#

!

cinder relic
#

Or even equivalent

floral crown
#

True

#

it's kinda nuts that post nerf devourer will still be far far better than us pre nerf

vivid vessel
#

and i see that their utility is better than me

dim parrot
vivid vessel
#

even when they arent op

#

:D

dim parrot
#

Same as dk

vivid vessel
#

most specs in this game just have more than rogue

dim parrot
#

Yes rogue is underdeveloped

#

Bro I telling u my alt ele sham

#

Is broken

slim hare
dim parrot
#

Lust sky fury

slim hare
#

which is insane lol

dim parrot
#

Then decurses and stops

floral crown
dim parrot
#

12 sec range kick

dim parrot
shadow trellis
#

i havent seen ele do well yet tbh

jolly geyser
#

aoe kidney here we come

dim parrot
#

Doesn’t need to

floral crown
#

had an ele go 700-800k burst on corewarden

dim parrot
#

Will always get inv to m+

shadow trellis
#

You can play dk and not get invited

floral crown
#

but they're very bursty, they go into wet noodle mode afterward

shadow trellis
#

all depends on your rating and what you are trying to do

#

if you want to push keys you have to run your own

#

or get a group

dim parrot
#

Not as ele lol

#

Perma invites

floral crown
#

I mean syx is kinda right after 16-17 i would say

dim parrot
#

Trust

shadow trellis
#

thats just not true

dim parrot
#

I’m telling u it’s true

floral crown
#

I get pretty much auto invites on my udk in 10-15

#

but it's far harder above

dim parrot
#

Didn’t even have any 18’s timed couple weeks ago still got invited to 18’z

floral crown
#

maybe you're just goated and they know it

dim parrot
#

But lust and skyfury are op

shadow trellis
#

you wanna run your own until you need 3-1 for resi then you can hope for an invite

#

at least how it is so far for me

#

on outlaw

pastel oxide
#

please tell me slice and dice activates automatically for outlaw

shadow trellis
#

and im doing 19s

dim parrot
#

Yeah rogue has harder time due to lack of kit is what I’m saying

#

and I gap every ele I play with on outlaw

marble dock
#

is outlaw still the way to go on wednesday?

dim parrot
#

All 3 specs are mid play w.e

marble dock
#

k

floral crown
#

outlaw is more fun so I'll stick to it

marble dock
#

yeah it is the most fun was just wondering in terms of strengh

floral crown
#

assa probably gonna be a bit stronger, but we will have to see

marble dock
pastel oxide
#

can i macro coup and dispatch freely?

outer meteor
#

@keen belfry

image.png
hardy thicket
#

dispatch turns into coup dw about it

craggy barn
#

L wang

fluid iron
#

@cinder relic very random but i can you send me a picture of your UI we are having UI talks and i need it for content people dont believe me that i know someone with CDM top left

craggy barn
#

oh god

vivid vessel
#

one of the worse ui i have ever seen

craggy barn
#

i needa see this

cinder relic
#

I'm out rn but I'll link it when I get home

#

Everybody says my ui is terrible yet I'm better than them

#

Curious

#

Really makes you think

craggy barn
#

built different

outer meteor
keen belfry
#

Kinda cooked me for what

#

I did say he’s inter

frail veldt
#

You could be leaving performance on the table with your shit ui

fathom bramble
#

the most important thing is that everything you need to look at is somewhat close

red pike
#

!UI

ornate heathBOT
fathom bramble
#

and you don't have a bunch of extraneous stuff displayed blocking your view

long barn
#

Zac you got that link to your Ui setup?

craggy barn
#

i love extraneous shit

cinder relic
#

Pretending that ui position plays a role is like people who overindex on shit like dpi and 4:3 monitors

#

Ive played like this for years, it's never really hurt me, I'm used to it. No sense in changing it

#

It is odd I agree but this is just how I used to play smite back in the day

torpid fiber
#

have u ever considered that playing with a bad ui is like the guy in naruto who trains with weights on

As soon as guy minmaxes his ui they'll have to nerf outlaw again from how much dps he does

long barn
#

Is there any chance we don’t see all the nerfs? Like maybe they do a take back

cinder relic
craggy barn
#

if guy fixes his ui, rogue will get nerfed

random stirrup
#

i have been watching pikaboo make his foray into pve recently and its hilarious watching his facecam and seeing him look top left for his combo points 24/7

glass mortar
#

i mean I know two players who raided in HoF guilds years ago and performed well and they were both clickers

random stirrup
#

crazy work

craggy barn
#

hes sandbagging with that UI

cinder relic
glass mortar
#

now both of them played paladin

fathom bramble
glass mortar
#

not sure if thats a coincidence or not

fathom bramble
#

now the training weights are going back on

craggy barn
#

blizzard wont stand for it to see another op rogue with a clean ui

placid ocean
vivid vessel
#

this your ui lil bro

frail veldt
long barn
cinder relic
#

LMFAO ITS NOT THAT BAD

craggy barn
#

i get the logic

#

i understand u guy

vivid vessel
craggy barn
#

old school health bar shit

frail veldt
torpid fiber
# vivid vessel

ok this is horrible at first glance but I kinda get the idea

fathom bramble
#

think of all the glaives you can see if your ui is in the corner

frail veldt
#

Just turn off ui

craggy barn
#

ye

frail veldt
#

Never get hit

fathom bramble
#

tru

craggy barn
#

ive done a key like that once

fathom bramble
#

alt-z

craggy barn
#

was kinda fun

frail veldt
#

Alt z gameplay

#

Never miss anything

#

Infinite awareness

craggy barn
#

i wish weak auras still existed

#

my text only wa was goated

frail veldt
#

When raid lead says "just live and we win"

#

I alt z

#

Enter flow state

torpid fiber
#

this is why u gotta bind obr

craggy barn
#

bro

#

my text only ui would go hard with midnight

vivid vessel
#

cant even see them anymore

#

idk why i even have raid frames honestly

craggy barn
#

i should do that

fathom bramble
#

mine are kind of small and still default position

craggy barn
#

been meaning to

fathom bramble
#

but like they rarely have actionable information so

#

you could just hide them

craggy barn
#

i use it to see if people are dead

#

but thats it

shadow trellis
#

I hide mine

craggy barn
#

also to double check my groups

fathom bramble
#

I use to to check groups and that's pretty much it

craggy barn
#

i have a number on my unitframe for my own group

#

i wonder if i could make a text only ui

#

with acdm

#

just 100% obscure information and just rely on positional memory

outer meteor
keen belfry
outer meteor
#

i dont think so...

#

timed his 20 seat

#

with 2 min left

vivid vessel
#

i mean these are my frames

image.png
#

they are basically not here anyore

#

details take more space

#

:D

smoky galleon
# vivid vessel :D

Having enemy dmg taken to show lura dmg just so u dont feel like ur doing nothing kekW

frail veldt
gaunt palm
#

Why do you still track your weapons Zac? No more War Within swap tech Surebud

keen belfry
outer meteor
#

werent u

#

in a resil 20 seat

#

did u give up again

stuck mountain
#

is there ever a situation where I should be sitting on BtE, or do I send it whenever it's off cooldown?

vivid vessel
#

too far left

vivid vessel
#

but

#

it was useful before midnight

#

you could check boss damage mid key and shit

#

now its useless

#

idk why i even have it still

#

hoping blzizard fix the damage metter

#

so i can see the info in combat

#

:D

sly hearth
#

phys comp - unholygarf_sit

Screenshot_2026-05-04_at_01.02.01.png
outer meteor
#

love when my tank dies on 20 aa first pull

#

and rips a

#

"idk no aug"

keen belfry
proven ocean
outer meteor
frail veldt
#

Oof

#

Careful

#

Zeross doesn't like evidence

#

Makes him crash out

proven ocean
#

7:02

#

Thats now

outer meteor
#

??????????????????????

#

thats

#

2 min ago

#

before i typed

#

are we deadass

proven ocean
outer meteor
#

rank 1 ragebaiter

#

almost got me

hazy siren
#

@outer meteor you are getting fewguyd

proven ocean
#

Whats even a few guy

hazy siren
#

You and the other guy

#

Is few guy

proven ocean
marsh raft
#

has anyone made jokes about shutting down the discord in reaction to the nerfs yet? Just want to see if I missed any good ones

outer meteor
#

u got me for a couple seconds

#

then i realized

#

who i was talking to

sly hearth
# outer meteor

was in MC where war died on second pull with bears with comment - "strange, I died on simpler pull"

proven ocean
#

Couple of seconds

#

Like

sly hearth
#

indeed strange

proven ocean
#

Does the guy have to get u for hours to get u

#

Or what

outer meteor
#

yep

#

2 hours min

#

for it to count

glass mortar
#

i mean aug still gives armor which is pretty strong on brm

#

but isnt that like the only survivability boost it gives

#

its not that big

haughty moat
#

cant aug despell the bleed?

glass mortar
#

any evoker can but yea aug can dispel bleeds on a 1m cd

frail veldt
haughty moat
#

thats huge on aa

limpid swallow
#

Anyone have a msuf profile to copy?

proven ocean
frail veldt
#

I remember when I first started rage baiting

proven ocean
#

Bro will bring up about half ravenholdt blocking you cuz u were acting like a child

#

Good brag

frail veldt
#

Maybe one day

#

Young one

#

If you work hard enough

drifting burrow
#

dk shit himself

#

or?

torpid lodge
#

Yall didnt let him ramp

fresh acorn
#

Fotm players amiright

winter forge
#

nowadays with the changes in putrefy is impossible to get just 176k on a m+, probably he didn't know that he has to use the double dnd to refresh quickly putrefy

#

or something like that

sly hearth
lethal relic
#

When you gys sim your characters, do you just do Patchwerk 1 target 5min?

#

The fights this patch are weird

haughty sparrow
#

!fuu

ornate heathBOT
candid moon
#

relearning outlaw atm, why do you finish at 6CP now and not 5?

pure folio
#

More dam better efficiency higher ace chance

#

Only reason u dispatched at 5 with fb was cuz the coins would somewhat make up for it iirc

candid moon
#

ty, was looking through talents just didnt see anything other than ace procs it really mattered for

pure folio
#

I wish it was better or equivalent to finish at 5 tho

#

Literally everything puts us at 5

river wing
#

I wish everything just put us at 6 xD

#

like Ace legit has no reason not to

candid moon
#

yea its weird w/ Ace procs playing on a dummy

river wing
#

(also it's sometimes funny to do a 7p trickster coup and end up with 3 CP from ruth)

candid moon
#

do you just smack ace procs or are ppl actualyl BtE > SS > BtE?

dim parrot
#

BTE is 6+

river wing
#

bte-ss if at 5-bte is superior but sometimes I get lost in the sauce and just smash

uncut ginkgo
#

always 6+

candid moon
#

can i go back to TWW BTE which i just smack BTE for 3 years

marsh raft
#

How long does it take a new player to get used to the convoluted if->then->else sequence of this spec whilst doing stuff like t5 rituals or other content where you also need to be on top of everything I wonder.

tender wedge
#

It’s all just reps

#

Outlaw probably takes more than, say, sub 😅

marsh raft
#

I actually just died in a ritual cause I was tracking CP too closely and got clipped by a spell I SHOULD have interrupted lol so its on my mind

uncut ginkgo
#

go practice in delves

river wing
#

legit just practice

marsh raft
#

those are too easy tbh

river wing
#

I was much worse 2 months ago

marsh raft
#

I can sleepwalk thru t11s but yeh be good for rotation practise I guess

uncut ginkgo
#

tricks valeera, lets ya work on muscle memory

marsh raft
#

makes me sad that sba is so bad for outlaw that I actually have to play my spec. as assassination they're pretty close so I can just sba if I need to st zug zug a boss 🤣

marsh raft
vapid salmon
#

not too hard, you'll improve fast

marsh raft
#

im getting better

pastel sierra
#

Tbh the best thing you can do is the most boring one, target dummies

marsh raft
#

yeah I spent like... 2 hrs this morning on dummies testing each spec to see what I actually did the most dps as. Outlaw won.

pastel sierra
#

Thats... a way to choose

tender wedge
#

Annoyingly assass is tough on the dummies because they fall into execute range and you fucking blast

#

Gives a false sense of superiority

marsh raft
#

I dont know how long it'd take to get the raid dummy to that point 😲

#

(which was the dummy I was smacking around)

river wing
#

SBA on 'law is probably borderline unplayable in terms of performance

marsh raft
tender wedge
#

I’ve been maintaining about 200k at 275 ilvl on the five dummies, when I started out I was around 160k so the practice definitely helps

river wing
#

damn

marsh raft
#

assa is very close to on par either way

river wing
#

I already feel too slow whenever I don't have RtB 3+

marsh raft
#

if you're doing st

marsh raft
lethal relic
tender wedge
#

I got really really lucky on my bonus rolls, didn’t get any of the big ticket items but every one of the 4 things I did get was an upgrade

vapid salmon
#

Honestly today I did my assa day for test, beating a couple my dps records as outlaw with half the effort. It was a bit sad

lethal relic
#

Someone else mentioned Ace Up Your Sleeve, but finishing at 6+ combo points also means you have a little more time to stack Zero In

image.png
marsh raft
marsh raft
tender wedge
#

I really just need the pit neck, that’s a huge upgrade for me, then it’s onto gaze 👀

lethal relic
#

I finally reached the point where I can get no upgrades from raid or M+ so I'm bing chilling for vault and voidcore upgrades

river wing
#

I lucked out big on rolls+vault this week - shoulders+chest, got another Pit cloak but cata'd it for Sub in case I feel like turning my brain off
legit just gonna blow two on Pit again for legs+wrists, OR if I get legs in vault - try my luck in Nexus for another ring most likely

#

at this point I'm like...two weeks away from being fully loaded lmao

lethal relic
#

I'm gonna use my voidcores today on Pit and pray. I've already rolled the legs (which I catalyzed) and the ring so I'm hoping for the dagger and neck

marsh raft
#

I need legs / boots / neck / shoulders

#

I keep getting rings, cloaks, and wrists

#

for SOME GODDAMN REASON

tender wedge
#

I got the mastery heavy neck from Lura from the dungeon cache a few weeks back so that’s as easy one to replace at least

#

I got the nice headpiece from seat but that does lock me into using the bad tier legs for now since they’re also myth track and ilvl beats secondary preference for me there

#

Anyway I think this bonus roll system is WAY more fun than dinars

pastel sierra
#

Its a bit annoying if you're hunting something specific from m+ tbh

#

But it is better than dinars for sure

dim parrot
#

Why outlaw nerf tho guys

sonic pawn
#

Easy answer is blizzard put too much damage in one talent

dim parrot
#

What if outlaw was supposed to get 7% and sub supposed to be 5%

marsh raft
dim parrot
#

So compensation buffs are closer to neutral

marsh raft
#

so its strong 2x

sonic pawn
#

Would of been nice if they buffed Fatebound more aswell 😄

opal badger
#

what dps you guys pull on ST in m+ run?

marsh raft
#

too little! (but im newb to outlaw lol)

#

75k-ish st w/o bloodlust

#

im sure lots of people here are way better, im also only 270 ilvl

opal badger
#

yee im doing something insanely wrong then

#

im doing avg 50k on 263

dim parrot
#

Outlaw is good ST

#

263 hard to tell

#

Just get more gear

marsh raft
#

I do 50k with SBA so yeh id say youre doing something wrong or dont have 4pc or have bad trinkets / stats

#

could be anything there

dim parrot
#

263 is low ilvl

opal badger
#

this alt got lvl 90 yesterday okay

dim parrot
#

Then why you comparing your ST to people

frank walrus
#

What was SBA again

opal badger
#

i would expect to do dps at this ilvl

marsh raft
#

thats like my devourer dh. I got it to 90,got it geared to 265, decided i didnt care for it.

marsh raft
#

just manually hit AR

frank walrus
#

Oh ok

marsh raft
#

lose 30k-ish dps

#

😄

river wing
#

when analyzing a system, you always have to consider the worst outcome possible

marsh raft
river wing
#

yes, it's stupid engagement farming

#

dinars were a step in the right direction, this is a step backwards towards idiotic shit that was the norm during Legion and BfA

pastel sierra
marsh raft
#

I mean I like that I can get mythic geared doing next to no mythic raiding, that's cool

#

but

pastel sierra
#

And im cleaning that out

river wing
marsh raft
#

weeks where I waste my rolls on useless crap feel bad

river wing
#

and as soon as Pit runs out, everything else is a terrible gamblefest

pastel sierra
river wing
pastel sierra
#

Oh

#

I mean you could pug chimmy

#

And AA is not horrible to roll on imo

river wing
#

AA is terrible bro

#

like what's even there

pastel sierra
#

Wrists, back, ring, trinket

#

Something else

#

I think

river wing
#

pit gives you wrists/back/ring, trinket is garbo for 'law

pastel sierra
#

Oh wait law yeah

#

Trinket could go skyreach but its A LOT in there

river wing
#

legit after you're done with pit, next best options are like
seat (very gamba, depends on your present myth slots, there's like 4 terrible things there anyway)

#

and xenas

#

which is pretty good aside from chances to get cloak or mastery ring, IF you don't have a chest

pastel sierra
#

I think it hard depends on what u alr got

opal badger
#

i got pit neck, ring and in nexus point 2nd ring

#

so i got very lucky unlike my main

river wing
#

it does, but generally AA is terrible anyway

pastel sierra
#

Its not as easy as 'oh yeah pit is just the best'

pastel sierra
river wing
#

it is actually
unless you legit have like 4+ of pit drops already AND want to dodge cloak (which isn't even bad, it's like second best M+ cloak anyway)

#

then pit is best

#

every pit item aside from cloak is bis or can be cata'd to bis

#

so unless you've gotten lucky early in the season and have most pit items, it does actually just go "yeah that's the best place" with very few alternatives

#

after pit, there's more to think about for sure

pastel sierra
#

I got belt and legs from pit in the first 2 myth vaults garf

river wing
#

but it usually boils down to "where do you want to gamba at 50/50 rather than 25/75"

dim parrot
#

Compared to having no deterministic gearing system it’s much better lol

#

Than just vault

river wing
dim parrot
#

Huh

river wing
#

like sure that's true
but the system is still shit and devtime devoted to it should've gone to developing a better loot system to begin with

dim parrot
#

What do you propose

pastel sierra
#

Tbh all thats missing is something like spending 4 rerolls to just buy an item

river wing
#

everything drops tokens, up to a weekly cap
X tokens can be exchanged for a specific item from corresponding difficulty of the same content

pastel sierra
#

Or whatever a good number would be

dim parrot
#

Like dinars then

river wing
#

mostly, yeah

dim parrot
#

Boring tho

#

Like tournament realm

#

Guessing that’s why they did it

#

Dopamine

pastel sierra
#

In 2 weeks i can raid log unless i want to gamble for myth track rings

river wing
#

idk what's all this "boring" talk is
I don't find gambling interesting

dim parrot
#

When u see a piece of loot drop from a raid boss that you need

#

That makes the game addict ng

river wing
#

like I legit like FFXIV's gearing system, the stats themselves are fucky and could be done better, but the system itself is just honest and straightforward

soft abyss
#

Dinars are so stupid

dim parrot
#

Dinars are stupid fs

soft abyss
#

you shouldn't be able to get exactly the item you want

river wing
#

like srsly

dim parrot
#

If you don’t like gambling then u don’t like vault

soft abyss
#

you should be able to have a bad luck protection

river wing
dim parrot
#

U don’t like killing a raid boss hoping gaze drops then rolling for it

#

Kek

river wing
pastel sierra
#

Nah i think it's fair to want a fully deterministic gearing system

dim parrot
#

Go swimming and say you don’t like water

pastel sierra
#

But this one is deterministic

river wing
#

and probably only because they're so old I'm accustomed to that

sand berry
#

grok is this ragebait

pastel sierra
#

You will get what u need after exhausting all rolls

river wing
#

that's not deterministic at all

soft abyss
#

it's deterministic in a good way for me

dim parrot
#

That’s literally deterministic

river wing
#

one person could spend 1 week and get lucky

soft abyss
#

bad luck

dim parrot
#

But gg

pastel sierra
#

Yeah this one guarantees success

#

Just takes x amount of rolls

#

Where before you could go the whole season without having a specific item drop from a boss

dim parrot
#

“I want this piece of loot now I don’t want to grind for it”

#

Lolllll

river wing
pastel sierra
#

Now you need like 4 weeks of bonus rolls on that boss and youll have it

dim parrot
#

Yeh ^

#

Take is cooked idk if I can keep going

pastel sierra
#

Its basically dinars just that you could get lucky like me and first roll the items every try in raid

river wing
#

again
I like how FFXIV does things
you kill a boss 4 weeks in a row
if you don't get the drop, you have accrued enough tokens to just go and buy a thing
there is no luck but the boss drop, and I can agree that it's weird I'm fine with boss drops but not bonus rolls

soft abyss
#

but it's the same now no?

river wing
#

but frankly I could also be fine with no random drops at all

#

and only tokens

soft abyss
#

after 4 weeks your have the item

dim parrot
#

It is

#

Yes

soft abyss
#

and maybe sooner

river wing
dim parrot
#

LOL

#

Brother

#

Give this one up

river wing
#

anyway
I don't see how dinars are worse ASIDE from the fact that they are just slower

soft abyss
#

but you get items too

dim parrot
#

Legs I don’t need? Fk

lethal relic
#

They're only worse because you only get three items

dim parrot
#

Guess I just cataly.e them

soft abyss
#

ok you didn't get the bis cloak

#

but still is an item

river wing
pastel sierra
# river wing again I like how FFXIV does things you kill a boss 4 weeks in a row if you don't...

Thats literally what happens now
Most bosses dont have more than 4 items in their pool
You kill it every week and get a chance to get your item
Every week you bonus roll you remove one item from your bonus roll table
At most you will need to kill the boss x amount of times with x being the number of items in its loot pool
So in the end, you can guarantee an item from a boss by committing bonus rolls on it for x weeks

#

Literally the same thing as doing the dinar weekly 3 weeks in a row to buy the item

#

Just that this one has a chance to not need 3 weeks

dim parrot
#

If u take tokens from
Vault

river wing
#

dinars are equal for everyone

dim parrot
#

U get 12 in a month

river wing
#

like the dinar system itself

pastel sierra
dim parrot
#

I mean m+ but ya true

pastel sierra
dim parrot
#

Why does it need to be perfectly equal

soft abyss
#

it is equal

dim parrot
#

Kek

pastel sierra
#

How are you arguing fairness on a literal random number generator that is thw same for every player

dim parrot
#

Gg

fathom bramble
river wing
soft abyss
#

it is equal