outlaw

[glass mortar]

shut down outlaw channel!! (add a 1 minute slow mode timer)

thatll teach blizz

[sudden veldt]

do as i say and buff us or we close wtf

[inner meadow]

i counted 17 procs

[weary goblet]

Please don't close the discord, the #transmog channel carries, regardless of balance

[pliant orbit]

@long bramble And that's fully understandable. I can definitely see the appeal to outlaw and it's cool to see the die hard fans playing it

[silver venture]

ret paladin incident has done irreversible damage to wow community after balance changes

[drifting burrow]

me sadge me cry

[sudden veldt]

y what ret did is unforgivable

theyve become a meme forever

[haughty moat]

we should just stop playing this shitshow from tuesday

best u can do

[long bramble]

Btw I think decision making on tuning this season is the worst of all time

[pliant orbit]

Imagine this. Boomy was the laughing stock of all of WoW and then ret paladins closed the discord for buffs and basically people stopped bullying boomies

[haughty moat]

for your mental health

[long bramble]

They double buffed tier s specs for no reason

Into fake nerfs to them

[glass mortar]

if u arent having fun or enjoying the service the best thing u can always do is stop paying for it and give ur feedback when they ask why u stopped

🤷

always been the case

[long bramble]

And nerfed guardian Druid (?)

And outlaw

Like

[drifting burrow]

https://klipy.com/gifs/crumpet-sitting--k01KQMZ1V3CVBA6Q4YDMYC5DR90

us waiting for respectable balance changes for outlaw

[unkempt dew]

https://wago.io/ak3iS95aa

can I just copy and paste this plater profile or do i have to download some other addons?

[pliant orbit]

I think touching grass and doing things you enjoy instead of forcing yourself to play something that makes you so frustrated is a good choice

[haughty moat]

did that 5 mins ago tbh^^

[pliant orbit]

Just paste it into the Plater Import

[long bramble]

Bro I swear I m gonna commit suicide if someone else tell me to touch grass

I m here to yap about the game

[unkempt dew]

Aaight thanks

[craggy barn]

guardian druid nerf bc its still giga dam for a tank spec in burst. other tanks need attention still tho

[long bramble]

Lemme yap about my spec bro

I can t play it can I at least yap about it

[pliant orbit]

Well, you also haven't been wanting to hang yourself or closing the discord

I am all down for yapping about the spec

[long bramble]

I m down to step on a chair tbh

[drifting burrow]

immagine you used voidcores

for gear

and they do this

😄

[haughty moat]

yep

[long bramble]

Bro it’s my bad I crafted a sword

So I got sniped

[drifting burrow]

anlaki i used 4 voidcores

and almost crafted

[pliant orbit]

Why is that a problem?

[plain portal]

Well at least our stats aren’t too bad for sin right?

[sudden veldt]

sometimes something i enjoy more than getting what i want is hoping to get it

[pliant orbit]

Outlaw stats are pretty darn close to sin stats

[sudden veldt]

hope makes life better

[pliant orbit]

Sin likes mastery a bit more in AOE, but crit/haste is super good for assa

[sudden veldt]

if you have all you want already

youll be sad

[drifting burrow]

they didnt want us to swap specs and balance stuff out?

how is this nerf helping

[pliant orbit]

What did you get that can't be used on your rogue?

[long bramble]

Bro are you here to rage bait mentally unstable ppl or what?

Like genuinely

[drifting burrow]

fist weapon some other gear aswel

mythic

[long bramble]

I m gonna write your name on my last statement

[pliant orbit]

No I am just questioning things

[sudden veldt]

like i said im really hoping for monday change

im 80% convinced it will happen

[haughty moat]

bro u need to chill, this isnt funny

[drifting burrow]

@pliant orbit you know what the funny part is my guy

[pliant orbit]

Okay, I agree that the fist weapon can be a waste. But they haven't removed outlaw. It's still better than before the cloud cover change

[drifting burrow]

that sub got same tuning basicly

and they benefit from it

and we get omega punished

[pliant orbit]

6% is not the same as 16%

[drifting burrow]

it's still 6% dmg loss

and sub gains

top 100 keys all teams devo DH aug

[sudden veldt]

lets say you get reverted on monday, wouldnt you be 10× more happy than if the nerf never happened in the first place?

[drifting burrow]

meanwhile DK 1% st nerf

[glass mortar]

no

[drifting burrow]

kekw

[pliant orbit]

Okay, so the cloud cover change for sub was a 6% increase, which was then changed and is now like 7% compared to before cloud cover change
FOr Outlaw it was 16% up and now down 6% so you are still like 8-10% stronger than before the cloud cover change

[unique fulcrum]

thats not how it works

[haughty moat]

reverte to tww s2 outlaw? hell ya

[pliant orbit]

And still people are acting as if they have deleted the spec, despite still being better than 2 weeks ago

[plain portal]

Yea revert us to season 3 dragon flight

[sudden veldt]

y overall were still stronger than before even in worst case scenario

[cinder relic]

It's going to be the same fucking joke for the next 10 years

[long bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/yoru-plxto-xhouls-vinto-discord-gif-10159847829461245415

[drifting burrow]

oh mb bro didnt know outlaw had that much of a crazy impact in top 100 keys

kekw

[pliant orbit]

@drifting burrow And all the other items you used cores on to roll. Those items are as useful on outlaw as they are on both other rogue specs

[pliant orbit]

The cloud cover change didn't change that

[drifting burrow]

Explain

[pliant orbit]

Shaihuloot is my boy and the guy's a fucking god of warrior

[drifting burrow]

what is bro saying

ur legit trying to ragebait

[thin snow]

[drifting burrow]

kekw

[haughty moat]

and zac is noob?

[long bramble]

Bro I explain it to you in a very stupid way spec was legit garbage then we get a buff and we are actually playable for like 5 days we could actually pug keys then we get insta nerf and our nerf is BIGGER then dev dk and aug nerf and we can t complain about it?

[vivid vessel]

ye its prolly skill issue that he is doing 50k more overall every key

my bad guys

[drifting burrow]

HAHAHA

[vivid vessel]

i will improve

[haughty moat]

xDDDDD

[plain portal]

Bottom dps with comp fully tailored to it deserved 6% Nerf I guess

[drifting burrow]

bro is legit

ragebaiting

[vivid vessel]

also he brings 5% buff to the whole party btw

[fathom bramble]

I mean this happens everytime they touch outlaw

[vivid vessel]

in reality he is gapping everyone by 100k

[drifting burrow]

tell him zac tell him

[sudden veldt]

thats the spirit

[fathom bramble]

there's always someone in here that has never and would never play law trying to ragebait

and is usually talking nonsense the whole time

[haughty moat]

fr

[glass mortar]

i just dont understand why you guys are upset that u got turned from a bottom 5 spec to a top 10 spec and then nerfed more then all the specs in the top 5

[drifting burrow]

i still state that i refuse to believe that this nerf is deserved bro

[glass mortar]

the math works if you dont do any of it

[long bramble]

Oh yeah @pliant orbit forgot this part dmg is the o my thing we bring to the key

[sudden veldt]

you guys remember how hard arms discord was dooming at midnight release?

[drifting burrow]

it's beyond normal

bro went silent

real quick

[pliant orbit]

I mean, I do not disagree that outlaw and rogue in general could be buffed to match other specs. I do disagree with wanting to close discord and otherwise saying you want to hang yourself

[drifting burrow]

after maffia boss pulled up cuhh

@vivid vessel

[tawdry mason]

I mean it was justified on release they've just been getting what feels like 5% aura buffs every single patch note

[long bramble]

I mean it was fair arms wasn’t a spec

[thin snow]

[pliant orbit]

ARms was at the bottom and still kept getting nerfed, it was kinda wild

[drifting burrow]

arms is bottom

in

ST

[glass mortar]

and then they buffed it like 10 patches in a row

[pliant orbit]

Slam became like one of their better abilities

[drifting burrow]

?????

[glass mortar]

wish we could get that treatment

[drifting burrow]

bro please tell me

[thin snow]

vibe based tuning

[glass mortar]

outlaw can only get accidental buffs when they dont do the math on ptr tho

[drifting burrow]

what does arms do in phys comp

[glass mortar]

and then they gotta immediatly smash it back down

[sudden veldt]

now arms gaping our boy zac buy 100k

[thin snow]

Majority of players dont like rogue

The vibes are off

[drifting burrow]

it gives raidbuff and omega carrys AOE

what did outlaw do?

[vivid vessel]

carries bosses also cause funnel

[drifting burrow]

provides 0 raidbuffs had good ST and prio

[pliant orbit]

Don't forget the nastiest funnel of the world

[vivid vessel]

also cant die

[drifting burrow]

@vivid vessel exactly

[glass mortar]

zac dont you mean cleave

[vivid vessel]

im one shot by anything

[glass mortar]

[vivid vessel]

ye cleave not funnel

[long bramble]

I mean bro you re taking smth serious when it rly isn’t we re just stupid ppl venting about balancing in a video game

[drifting burrow]

so yea why does arms get buffed

[blissful idol]

he can die by the sword skip even exodia face tank everything

[drifting burrow]

gapping everyome alrdy with 100k

[blissful idol]

nice class

[drifting burrow]

and we as bottom dps

getting omega cucked

again

[vivid vessel]

people tell me feint is op

and this guy just tanks the miniboss bump in academy

natty

[pliant orbit]

I agree that arms probably didn't need the buff after the bugfix of Deep Wounds

[vivid vessel]

loses 10% hp

[tawdry mason]

bro elusiveness + feint immortal, yeah?!

[drifting burrow]

XD

[vivid vessel]

feint is op tho

[tawdry mason]

kekw

[blissful idol]

hahahah

[glass mortar]

i mean warrior is pretty tanky they got good tools now a day

[drifting burrow]

bro the reason we could tank AA miniboss

was feint with stacking fazed DR

now we also lose that btw

kekw

GL living it in 22 zac

[vivid vessel]

im just gonna ask for external

healer will link me lol

not capping btw

[drifting burrow]

xhanon goat

[blissful idol]

i think u die with evas feint on next reset

[vivid vessel]

I live one with evasion feint, i live one with cloak

and then i live one with link

pretty chill

[drifting burrow]

same

[tawdry mason]

and then u live with hopes prayers and vibes

[vivid vessel]

another one i just kill myself

[blissful idol]

well wait till next week

[vivid vessel]

whatever happens happens

[blissful idol]

maybe we dont live with 40% dr

who knows

[vivid vessel]

i gamble the rogue calss talent

[drifting burrow]

wont suprise me

[vivid vessel]

that let us 20% dr thing

[drifting burrow]

claude rolling the bones with tuning anyway

[sudden veldt]

i just want people to realise how goated outlaw and people who play it are

[vivid vessel]

i live at 0.68% idk

seems fine to me

[drifting burrow]

XD

[vivid vessel]

just need link

[sudden veldt]

but you cant do that without tuning

[drifting burrow]

HAHA

i cant bro

[vivid vessel]

we have rally also

i can live another

kinda goated

[drifting burrow]

trueeeeeeee

[vivid vessel]

nvm i need a little bit more vers

all good

[drifting burrow]

broo

where the rope at

where did it go wrong

from start s F tier

to playable

[drifting burrow]

into ?

[pliant orbit]

@drifting burrow I do agree that the nerfs to rogue are unwarranted though. You won't see me disagreeing with you on the tuning changes. I just disagree on the reaction

@vivid vessel Who is doing more damage? Faro or Shai?

[drifting burrow]

it's just i cant dude

faro goated

[pliant orbit]

And I can understand that

[drifting burrow]

like claude is not even putting note on it why they did it

[vivid vessel]

idk

[drifting burrow]

and if we sim numbers

[vivid vessel]

shai is playing with buffs

and better routes

[drifting burrow]

6% ST loss?

[vivid vessel]

so

[drifting burrow]

compared to DK 1% ST loss

[pliant orbit]

Aah, fair fair

[drifting burrow]

is absolute fkin crazy to me

then u go raiderio press top 100 keys

and dont laugh

[pliant orbit]

At least we got half the arena on outlaw

[tawdry mason]

ew pvp player spotted

ah nvm some random ah tourney

[pliant orbit]

I play all of it

[drifting burrow]

ahhh shit outlaw rogue detected time to nerf it

all i see is red purple green

[pliant orbit]

haven't the past several seasons been a ton of meta comp and then Zac's team with phat cocks still sitting in the top between the meta comps?

[sudden veldt]

dont cry because its over smile because its happened

[plain portal]

Smile because we were a bit above average with dogshit play style?

[sudden veldt]

im trying to bring positivity in a world of despair

[plain portal]

Why tf do they insist so much on making killing spree a thing btw I can’t legit remember a single time especially with old killing spree that anyone enjoyed it

[hazy siren]

Press KS > Die, are you winning son?

[livid pewter]

ngl old killingspree was fun to press

[tepid galleon]

Yo

What’s the new melee comp

[drifting burrow]

doesnt matter its about being lowest dps in cuckchair

and we get nerfed while being bottom dps in phys comp

[frail veldt]

16+

nerf outlaw

literally so broken

[carmine pine]

Why does blizz hate rogues?

[nova sinew]

20 yrs ago

stv

trauma

[carmine pine]

Why does blizz have such a hard on for devourer

Does Ian main DH?

[verbal vortex]

its the new toy

[tepid galleon]

He no longer works for the company

[verbal vortex]

ofc its gonna be op

[tepid galleon]

Need more doom speak

[keen cedar]

Dont have anything against op devo players, they are new class, I just want one rogue spec that will be invited in groups, dont care which one and dont care what it will have

[dense coral]

Run your own keys 😌

[glass mortar]

people will literally do anything but queue their own key (and sit in lfg for 45 minutes without anyone else applying)

😩

[cinder relic]

They are nerfing Devourer this patch tbf

[worldly zealot]

I think we should vocally cry & doom more so Blizzard still has time to issue an “update” to tuning pass

[vivid vessel]

lmao btw

[cinder relic]

Yeah it should be more!

[vivid vessel]

imagine outlaw gets nerfed by more

no wae !

[worldly zealot]

funny thing is also they don’t touch the tankiness of devo anyhow

and it is the most brainded dr in the game now alongside with DKs

[cinder relic]

Defensives are a weird thing to target Ina patch like this

[cinder relic]

Very silly!

[glass mortar]

they technically nerfed ours

[fathom bramble]

yeah very weird

[glass mortar]

[cinder relic]

Another 5% to arms warrior

[fathom bramble]

strange we lost ours

[floral crown]

But even post nerf Devourer clears pre nerd Outlaw by a good margin, no?

[dim parrot]

Devourer got buffed in .5 they’re just reverting it

[cinder relic]

Yes Devourer is op

[floral crown]

My phone autocorrected nerf to nerd, great.

[mortal scroll]

how much of a nerf does this workout to be for outlaw?

[frail veldt]

pins have that info

[thorn plinth]

do we close the dc or what?

[vivid vessel]

more than aug, more than dk, more than dev

[floral crown]

I just decided to gear up my outlaw alt recently and now it's unplayable again

[frail veldt]

what would that be for

[thorn plinth]

[thorn plinth]

i mean ret got buffed after they closed dc

[frail veldt]

you poor thing

I also took a shit the day ret got buffed

maybe thats what caused it

[hot night]

nobody plays this class why would they care about the 12 people in its discord

[ebon maple]

Gonna go theory craft and take a shit

[arctic hollow]

Every timewalking i played last week had an outlaw pexing in it. Poor souls couldn't know it would only be the flavor of the month for a single week

[floral crown]

Funneist part is that there were several specs that cleared Outlaw, idk what warranted this

Surely blizz is just using Gemini or whatever to balance these days

[arctic hollow]

Pexing as outlaw is also the worst experience i can imagine in world of warcraft so they got the worst of the spec

[thorn plinth]

okay i get it

no point talking to that specimen

[floral crown]

can we even call it flavor of the month if it wasnt even a top dog spec

to begin with

[pure folio]

semi flavor of the week

[ebon maple]

Is crafted gear vital for outlaw or can i reroll from sub with crafted wrists

[hot night]

it never touched the trinity of aug/devourer/unholy

[floral crown]

yeah I suppose, it finally breached into the viable territory, better nerf

[pure folio]

more about ilvl/stats than "crafted gear or not"

[ebon maple]

Cool! So if i just get high ilvl gear from m+ its fine. I dont wanna use 160 myth crests to recraft for outlaw

[pure folio]

Myth gear (bonus rolls, vault, raid) > Crafted gear> M+ gear

[floral crown]

Kind of mean with the timing as well, people probably spent all their bonus rolls chasing an item only good for outlaw

and now it's screwed

[pure folio]

I think sub uses the same stats as outlaw now so crafting wont hinder ur ability to play either unless ur crafting double daggers

[mighty pivot]

it won't be using the same stats after cloud cover gets nerfed next week. but there is some overlap at least

[pure folio]

is sub going back to mastery next week?

[cinder relic]

Sub has always been a spec that wants crit

[ebon maple]

I was just wondering cause i got crafted wrist/dagger for sub/ass, and i see the guide says ring/shoes i think for outlaw

[cinder relic]

All 3 specs want crit haste

[pure folio]

yea thats what i thought ^

[cinder relic]

Mastery is competitive with crit for sub

[floral crown]

Are we 100% sure that sub/assa will clear outlaw next week?

[pure folio]

if u multispec, i think crit/haste is just best

u dont even really lose anythign besides maybe sub in mass aoe

[cinder relic]

Sub is dungeons does want more mastery yeah but like, it's fine

Also sub in dungeons kinds poop

Pick up a sword/more poisons

[tawdry mason]

Sub in dungeons

[arctic merlin]

when do those changes go live

next week?

[ebon maple]

How fun is outlaw in general combat?

With ass in open world by the time you dot stuff you fall asleep, sub needs shadow dance, is outlaw more straight forward combat?

[arctic merlin]

i find it fun, you just don't have to save your adrenaline rush

so basically keep fighting like a madman

[ebon maple]

Yeah that sounds fun, sub hits hard but waiting for shadow dance at time feels rough

[arctic merlin]

no waiting for anything, just keep your buffs up and you do that by fighting

bte resets also feel nice

[floral crown]

In my opinion the most fun rogue spec by a mile

in fact it's the only reason I've played rogues, I absolutely detest assa and sub

Cant really chalk it up to more than more satisfying playstyle though

which is obviously subjective

[ebon maple]

Assa was ok for me but needing dots all the time and envenom spamming is lame, sub feels like a brick when you dont have shadow dance and its short window, outlaw just looks like have fun and play

[floral crown]

Yeah best thing about outlaw is that it doesnt matter what timing or pulls you do, your damage was decent and consistent

didnt rely heavily on anything really considering adrenaline rush is up so much

It's like when I play on my udk, I do omega damage and then hit like a wet noodle outside of my burst windows

Outlaw was a breath of fresh air in that regard, considering the midnight revamp has made most specs into cooldown slaves

[ebon maple]

as an outlaw gamer, do you think all i need is a 1h wep to be able to swap to outlaw or anything else required? damn that combat sounds fun on outlaw

[dim parrot]

Guys idk what to do next week fr

[floral crown]

I am not really sure if I can recommend you going outlaw dagger, but yeah if you do just switch to 1h wep on main hand

keep 1.8 speed dagger in offhand

[hollow portal]

dplay dh or warlock

[glass mortar]

you need about 7% more haste as well

i mean u can swap before that, its not gunna feel great tho

[ebon maple]

bro ive been farming nexus for the rings, that would give me a nice bit of haste

its rough

[floral crown]

cant wait for blizzards next chatgpt balancing

I am actually quite convinced at this point that the balance team is just one person that doesn't play the game and uses AI

[round stump]

🏄‍♂️ 🏄‍♀️

[dim parrot]

I have a geared ele at 3.6 io but it boring i think its not worth playing still

[floral crown]

ele is just way too dependent on burst windows to ever be fun

you do 700k dmg in one pull

70k in next

[dim parrot]

Yeah and it feels like ranged sub

Mash ur 3-4 buttons

[floral crown]

[dim parrot]

Never had an easier LFG experience than Sham tho

It’s so free getting io

[floral crown]

I guess what i'll do is just switch to frost on dk and play that

forget outlaw till they make it good again in 4 years

[fading forum]

I want to play rogue as dps alt for keys, plan on pushing big willy style. Trying to decide whether to craft dagger or sword and i see much dooming for outlaw here, should i be going assassination?

kinda wanna shoot shit but will be joining the resi 19s as soon as i have gear and pref to be as meta as poss

i see it's kidna neck and neck atm on raider.io with a few outlaws pulling ahead

[floral crown]

outlaw will still do ok dps, you just wont get invited into pugs after +13 or +14

I dont think assa or sub will get invited past that either anyways

if you play with friends, take your pick

[fading forum]

it is true, luckily i should be with a premade mostly (if they dont also not invite me)

[crimson scarab]

ive pugged by myself 16-17s

[fading forum]

play with a resto for melee cleave not sure if that has any impact

[crimson scarab]

its not impossible

but sometimes the waiting is a lot

[floral crown]

If you start your own groups, it can work

or if you have the patience of a saint

and time of a teenager

[fading forum]

yeah i usually push as windwalker

it is not a fun queue simulator

[floral crown]

Problem is now after the nerf, it will get even harder

[fading forum]

luckily this patch i can just go brew

but i do not like tanking

[hybrid widget]

how big are the outlaw nerfs, do we have the math

[crisp badge]

its pinned

[dim parrot]

Just check pins

[hybrid widget]

ty

[undone moth]

Is WoWAnalyzer up to date/useful for outlaw?

[glass mortar]

no

[dim parrot]

I think just keep playing outlaw next week F everything else

Wish FB was ahead tho

[crisp badge]

nah trickster is a lot cooler imo

passive dr and 1h trick of trade is so nice

fatebound didnt feel impactful at all just a hidden buff

[crimson scarab]

energy felt a bit smoother imo

[floral crown]

ToT is really nice

[glass mortar]

fatebound has better gameplay and better rules and no kspree

[waxen scarab]

does the tuning make fatebound stronger or equal?

[glass mortar]

it is squishier tho even then this nerfed trickster

[crisp badge]

fatebound will still be weaker

[glass mortar]

so far it looks like fatebound is gunna be a little behind

[dim parrot]

Stacking fazed was nice dr

[unique fulcrum]

anyone got a quick clip of outlaw rogue skyreach skip for the wind shit

[waxen scarab]

if little its playable tbh comparing to the strict rules of trickstar

smoother gameplay + better rng would blast

[crisp badge]

just sprint and gh twice youre gonna be faster than almost anyone anyway

[glass mortar]

yea im sure more people will play it despite being behind

[floral crown]

was there a comparison of how all the rogue specs will stack up against each other somewhere yet?

[unique fulcrum]

miss my 4 hooks

[crisp badge]

yeah that was bonkers

[glass mortar]

its in the very first corner as ur running straight into the wind path

that tornado that shoots at the corner on the inside ring

[floral crown]

"No path available" famous last words to see on your screen

[glass mortar]

occasionally clips through and knocks u back if ur running against the corner

once ur in the air u can grapple to the ramp

the tornados happen periodically and it doesnt always clip tho

[floral crown]

I assume it's more of a latency issue with the tornados

the jump needs to hit a pretty specific window

[glass mortar]

ive never needed to jump

or maybe ur talking about a different skip then me

[floral crown]

interesting, did not know you could do it without jumps

I am talkin about the corner once u go up the stairs

and a tornado from one of the birds in the arch

[glass mortar]

yea the one that comes through the wall from the inside ring to the outside

and knocks u up

[floral crown]

yea

[glass mortar]

i dont think u need to jump for it

maybe jumping makes it hit more often? idk ive never jumped it

[floral crown]

to be honest I never tried to not jump, so I believe you

[glass mortar]

sometimes u get the bad seed and the tornado takes like 10s to spawn then doesnt clip thru the wal ltho

and ur actual cheesers (dhs) are already up top channeling it

fatebound skip was better

[floral crown]

and evokers

[glass mortar]

just grapple 4 times to the top nonstop

[potent latch]

you can also jump back down the first stairs to have a path for grappling hook

[floral crown]

monks can also do a risky vault thing

[glass mortar]

ive meant to try that

[ebon maple]

woo i got a 1h weapon, i can swap to outlaw

[glass mortar]

gz

[unique fulcrum]

ty

[vivid vessel]

is this not dangerous

the way you do it

cant you fell off

when you jump

if grapple is no pathing

im doing it "safely" rn but

its qutie cringe

it takes me some time to get it

[haughty moat]

oh thats kinda ballsy

[gusty topaz]

Can’t even see the character model

wtf is that

Just a random hook appearing lol

[indigo token]

was outlaw really that fucking good to be nerfed this much

[haughty moat]

im placing myself on the edge, so you can hold run and not strafe in anyway and then grapple on 1 specific point

kinda annoying ye

[sacred rune]

skill issue

[still matrix]

No

Although some boonhead on YouTube said outlaw discord is reading it wrong and its not a nerf

[pliant orbit]

It looks like quite a safe skip. You jump from top of stairs towards bottom so if you fail you just land on the stairs again, right?

[cold tide]

is outlaw played crit haste now?

[pliant orbit]

Ye

[cold tide]

ok

thx

[pliant orbit]

Ultimately sim yourself though

[potent latch]

you can jump so that you land on the stairs if you miss and still have a path for grappling hook

[vivid vessel]

i see

this way seems better than what im doing rn i think

[uneven fog]

cant be bothered to record, but this is super consistent and feels very safe at all times, regardless of stair tornado timings. Fast too.

crawl on the edge if scared

[vivid vessel]

you mean you grapple from x to x and then from x to x ?

[ember rock]

my line usually goes more to the right and down hmm

[uneven fog]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

its what i do but

[runic gulch]

i just grapple between first two tornados

[vivid vessel]

i have to get on the ledge

and then spam jump

[runic gulch]

never had an issue

[vivid vessel]

and angle is weird

[uneven fog]

no jump needed?

huh

[olive bramble]

I just sprint around and grapple twice, I was just as fast as somebody that did the skip with 0 risk

[vivid vessel]

really

idk maybe im like

i have the wrong angle prolly

[uneven fog]

imma head there and record

[timid idol]

will this put us back into fire mage tier?

[olive bramble]

Probably lower lol

[floral crown]

Thats the weapon I spent 6 bonus rolls to get in myth level

and now outlaw

[floral crown]

I assume we will be next to WW monks

[opal badger]

hello! i just leveled alt (outlaw) which dungeon should i spent bonus roll on?

[floral crown]

NPX is great value

[thorny hull]

my rogue is 250 dont have any myth track have 4 bonus rerolls i roll pit and craft a main hand weapon( thats not dagger) or ?

[floral crown]

You have occlusion and 1h wep from there

[uneven fog]

Worst end of the spectrum in terms of tornado timing and setup. Still safe. Yeah, you have to kinda tread lightly on the ledge, but it's really consistent after a couple initial practice reps

[olive bramble]

Pit is good value too

[floral crown]

Ye pit is great as well

[opal badger]

i thought about pit aswell, should i roll like different spec to get dagger for offhand?

[olive bramble]

Basically all items van be used from there

[floral crown]

Just whatever you do, commit to 1 dungeon to leverage the exhaustive loot pool

[opal badger]

try to get*

[olive bramble]

Yes

[opal badger]

i was confused why outlaw use dagger but then i found the knowledge

[olive bramble]

Cat legs everything else is basically slot in items

[opal badger]

is outlaw also secondary stat heavy like dev or agility>secondary?

[olive bramble]

You need a certain % haste and then it's just crit till cap and then vers where you can

[thorny hull]

when u craft items for example i will use my bonus rolls and gonna craft like cloak boots main hand weapon - when u craft 3 items do u put double arcanoweave and no wep embelishment or u go wep embelish + 1 arcanoweave

[opal badger]

i cant just fatstack 2 stats

alright i see, i want to target 23% haste then crit/vers

[olive bramble]

Crit >>> vers tho

[floral crown]

I'm at 21% haste and 29% crit, getting there

[olive bramble]

I am at 25% haste and 40% crit

[opal badger]

its feels so weird to jump from 282 ilvl to new char

[floral crown]

I'm at 274 on my rogue alt atm, but idk if I'm gonna work on it any longer

[opal badger]

i decided to play alt, i need some more apm action

[floral crown]

this nerf out of nowhere kinda leaves a bad taste

[olive bramble]

Well you chose the right spec for that 😂

Ai was 100% involved into making these changes

[opal badger]

which trinket are bis? (gaze and solarprism?)

[ebon maple]

damn unoptimized in terms of gear outlaw sims higher than my sub

[floral crown]

Yeah like I said earlier, I am confident at this point that the balancing team has long been fired and currently there's one middle manager that never played computer games using ChatGPT or Gemini

nothing else can really explain this patch

[olive bramble]

I currently run gaze and plume

[dim parrot]

Simming spec comparisons is not accurate

[ebon maple]

oh

[dim parrot]

Outlaw relies on uptime

[floral crown]

Havent seen any comparison yet but I assume Outlaw will at least not be the best rogue spec anymore

[dim parrot]

Was it ever

[olive bramble]

It never was

[floral crown]

I mean it was briefly in legion

[crisp badge]

in m+ it was

[dim parrot]

Not better than assa

Maybe neutral

[floral crown]

And ye for this past 1 week, outlaw was better in M+ at least

record time

[frail veldt]

I think assa was considered competitive to it

[cinder abyss]

Mmm those 400% blunderbuss crits...

[olive bramble]

That was just a fever dream

[crisp badge]

best rogues were both outlaw this season

wox and zac i think

[olive bramble]

Wox started with sub or ass this season I don't remember which

[crisp badge]

ass

[frail veldt]

Top player isnt a good metric

Zacs always one of the highest rogues

Even when outlaw sucks

[lone hedge]

Zac is the reason why we are getting nerfed

too much of a pumper

[potent latch]

looks pretty sketchy to me 😄

different camera angle to show its 100% safe 🙂

[uneven fog]

To an extent. No mid-air or dynamic aiming needed though. And as you can see, you can hold w and never fall off.

[uneven fog]

REALLY like that camera direction though

That changes things in my mind. Less aiming to do. Still, tornado timings, I'd imagine, can be an annoying variable, landing in the middle of them

[frail veldt]

Yeah I like your way

[potent latch]

you can just use 2nd grapple so tornado timings dont matter

[frail veldt]

Seems reliable

[uneven fog]

The pathing on your aim never has you clip it ever upon landing? I always felt the pathing available to the middle of the stairs was unreliable.

[vivid vessel]

ye im just skill issued by getting on ledge and shit

[vivid vessel]

this kinda looks better to me

more consistent

[unique fulcrum]

so we still gonna play trickster next week :/? getting nerfed and having to play trick..

[uneven fog]

Ah, I see now. Even if hit, you're fine.. as long as you're spamming. Yeah, it's techy

Camera angle changed it for me

big up

[potent latch]

yeah even if you get hit youre fine

[uneven fog]

yeah, rad

other angle rocks

[floral crown]

more like playing another class?

[buoyant ridge]

guys, I have what might be a stupid question (status quo for me lol)
Is Krick's Beetle Stabber in our Bonus Roll rotation in Pit of Saron ? I don't see it in the game's loot table
also, is there someplace to see what's in the bonus roll rotation?
TIA

[vivid vessel]

ye im not worried about getting hit

its not about that

its just my skip is too slow rn

im legit on the ledge

jumping in place

trying to find the angle

[next shuttle]

@buoyant ridge Set your loot spec to one that is not Outlaw

[buoyant ridge]

that's precisely what I was wondering, thank you !

[unique fulcrum]

god bless my alt is arms warrior

[floral crown]

You're lucky, all of my geared classes got hit

UHDK, Brew, Outlaw rogue... and hunter (which got hit 12.0.5)

Not upset about brew anyway

[unique fulcrum]

i am too employed to play more than 2 classes

[floral crown]

hey I work full time

(but dont have much life outside of that )

[true dust]

didnt play for couple of days, logging in to see we get nerfed again? did i miss something, were we so op?

[frail veldt]

Nope

We were like 80th percentile prob in terms of performance

Maybe 85th in m+

Worse than like uhdk devourer war ret Aug demo

While bringing no group buffs

Aka we def needed to be nerfed

[true dust]

wonder what lead to this decision

just let us do some dmg

[trail sparrow]

can you hook back to platform in skyreach at endboss ?

[livid pewter]

na u cant

[true dust]

but if cloud cover gets nerfed maybe fatebound will get better again at some point

[gaunt phoenix]

Fatebound 5% better

[dusty blaze]

Wah...

[trail sparrow]

tyvm

[frail veldt]

Rip perma tricks

[cinder relic]

WE ARE BACK

[dim parrot]

Idt he means that does he

[frail veldt]

Well still nerfed right

[livid pewter]

depending on which key lvl u do, u can just use slow posion and always kidney the add so its 8 sec stunned - should be enough to kill b4 it moves

[cinder relic]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/HEypHeNWEAAK76S.webp

[dusty blaze]

Oh my..

[frail veldt]

5% better than 7% nerf?

[cinder relic]

WE ARE BACK

[dim parrot]

Idk

[livid pewter]

please noo... i just got used to trickster again

[gaunt phoenix]

it's a joke cuz outlaw was buffed by 5%...

[dim parrot]

Yeh see

[frail veldt]

Careful if we start getting too excited they might up the nerf

[cinder relic]

WE ARE BACK

[dim parrot]

He was just replying to that guy

[devout garden]

https://tenor.com/view/buh-gif-14465458220549268962

[dim parrot]

Solo we rdy now

[gaunt phoenix]

Fatebound is "literally" 5% better than it used to be

[dim parrot]

Drop the secret build

We must be hiding a build that we can swap to post-tuning

Plz

I got it

It’s HO

[indigo token]

do we have a secret israeli outlaw build

[gaunt phoenix]

Fatebound will prolly sim like 1.5% behind trickster in keys

Which is enough to play it cuz it feels. Significantly better when thistle tea is out

[weary goblet]

https://giphy.com/gifs/GeneralMotors-Ym8rByqD34yTwoajGu

[indigo token]

thats so funny

[weary goblet]

by how clunky trickster plays atm, going fatebound will prob be 10% dps boost for me

[true dust]

i dont think i'll play trickster for 1.5% more so that's good news i guess. Still we got nerfed for no reason 😄

[frail veldt]

Oh I thought you were saying fatebound is 5% better than trickster

Rip

Got me excited

[smoky galleon]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

• Use Adrenaline Rush to activate Loaded Dice.
• As Trickster, use KS to activate Disorienting Strikes.
• Do NOT use RTB before the key, you will lose it.
• Use SND during the bubble once the key starts.

[livid pewter]

even if trickster is 1-2% worse, ill stick to it just for the perma trix

[gaunt phoenix]

Duality of man

[unique fulcrum]

perma tricks is really nice tbh

[sonic pawn]

So is not farting all over the place though 😂

[livid pewter]

well since u dont need to stand in the cloud, its not that annoying anymore and i just feel trickster much more in its playstyle than flipping coins

[river wing]

the real question is
would FB be better if you keep forgetting to KS in trickster

[zealous plinth]

But u still gotta reenter it no?

[river wing]

nope

[hardy thicket]

no

[river wing]

it reapplies even out of cloud when cloud expires

[livid pewter]

no, whenever the cloud is running out - it resets your buff so u dont care about it at all

just press adr and do dmg, dont care about the stinky cloud wherever its placed

[zealous plinth]

So we don’t need to wait anymore till mobs are packed?

[livid pewter]

nope

[thorn plinth]

sad day to be alive ngl

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-smoking-sadge-pepe-smoking-pepe-sadge-gif-16948267171533269841

[gaunt phoenix]

If they sneakily fix the cloud bug I will happily denounce trickster no matter how it sims

[livid pewter]

which i would assume is kinda cringe cuz the interaction is nonsense, just make us smoky instead of dropping a nonsense cloud lol

[zealous plinth]

Already now or just with Next tuning?

[craggy barn]

solo

[sonic pawn]

Just create a pin in discord talking about it and trickster goes in the bin @gaunt phoenix

[frank hamlet]

next tuning is next reset?

[craggy barn]

maybe the reduction to 6 seconds is how it will break the bugged interaction

[livid pewter]

already live

[craggy barn]

because its technically not up when the cloud expires

maybe its refreshing because the cloud ends while the buff is still up

!

[zealous plinth]

Omg why I was holding then till mobs are packed

[livid pewter]

see... at least you got some positive news today haha

[timid gust]

can someone help me track roll the bones buff as bar option at the same time? ( Like Feint)
using AyijeCDM

[timid idol]

and what is overall dps loss compared to now with fb

oh

i read what u said next

dont bait us this hard

[midnight granite]

What bug

The refresh?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yd

Yw

Ye

[midnight granite]

Yd

Yw

Ye

[sullen wyvern]

Guys

Did we deserve the upcoming nerf?

[indigo token]

yd

yw

[sullen wyvern]

Haven't played in like 3 weeks

[indigo token]

ye

[sullen wyvern]

Like outlaw was that strong?

[pure folio]

it was above average for once

[sullen wyvern]

Can't have that

[frank hamlet]

above average with no raid buff: unacceptable

[lilac crescent]

Just drag it from your default cdm to the buff bar category should use the ayije skin

[timid gust]

wouldn't that remove the option to appear top of the Combo bar though?

[lilac crescent]

ah maybe, i just track it from the bar

[timid gust]

ok then thanks a lot

[main radish]

What is the Situation now - i read buff and nerf 🤣

Is it an o nerf or buff I we Go back to the old spec

[tender breach]

Now I use the trickster variation without prep. So after reset fatebound will be almost the same?

[old gull]

Chat gpt cloud cover talent was too much

[dull ginkgo]

Check pin msg

[timid idol]

dont bother checking pin, come back next season

or even better maybe next xpac

insane that we're not even allowed to be middle of the pack

it's clear the vendetta is intentional at this point

some dumb fucks at blizzard have very specific biases

unholy and devourer getting smaller nerfs than otl says it all

unholy keeps it's title of the best melee dps spec in the game for 90% of the game's existance

[dull ginkgo]

Is this trueeee?

[grim spear]

honestly i originally thought cloud cover was a good design
trading mobility for damage, but the limitation was flexible enough, you just needed to step in it once, and you could even use your mobility to improve the uptime

[glass mortar]

yes they aura buffed us, that made fatebound 5% better

notice he did not say better then trickster

[grim spear]

that one single talent was more interesting than the entire hero talent tree.

turns out it was just a misunderstanding. the designer didn't realize they'd given it that much dps. and the funniest part is they immediately took it back.

so yeah, turns out the designer's mistake is still better than the designer

[ebon maple]

going from assa > sub > to outlaw feels so different, the other specs have so much down time but outlaw always has something going on

[cinder relic]

Yeh it's fun

[ebon maple]

still gotta adjust it feels a lil overwhelming but def fun!

[cinder relic]

No....

[grim spear]

honestly don't think current outlaw is more fun than the 11.0 version, and 11.0 wasn't as good as 10.2

which was still Realz's work.

the fun parts about outlaw right now are still the same old cd resetting, rolling dice, and shooting

[dull ginkgo]

It’s acoustically fun

[grim spear]

that's all 7.0 stuff

10 years man

everything except Realz's crackshot has been trash.

[tepid galleon]

Is fate bound better than trickster now after tuning

[glass mortar]

no

[clear tulip]

goood timing on the outlaw nerfs. didnt want any gun users progging bird or windchime

[tepid galleon]

What’s the fucking point then

[formal knot]

gun could do like +50% dps and still be inting on bird

[glass mortar]

to make us do less damage

we were too good

[tepid galleon]

So outlaw is just cooked

[cinder relic]

Ok then move on already

If you hate every version except crackshot why are you here

[clear tulip]

fatebound quadruple speed hook cloak eat all the balls?

[formal knot]

[clear tulip]

[tepid galleon]

Tell me what to play guys

wtf is the hold up

[grim spear]

i didn't like crackshot either tbh. it's just that everything else was even more garbage

especially the hero talents

[cinder relic]

..?

[tepid galleon]

I need someone to tell me what to play

[grim spear]

the fun stuff is still there
it's all 10-year-old legacy mechanics. what are the current designers even doing? no shame at all?

[timid idol]

the most important part that outlaw has always going on is mediocrity

[cinder relic]

You don't like any version of the spec..?

[timid idol]

highest uptime on being mid in the entire game

maybe on par with ww

[cinder relic]

Outlaw still idk

[clear tulip]

arms war or sub rogue

[timid idol]

just roll ret

idk if im playing this season anymore

but next season i prob give up and go ret

whenever ret cries they instantly get gargantuan buffs

theres no point

[cinder relic]

That doesn't happen though

This is like the first time ret has been good in legit like 4 years lol

Ret has been mid to shit for a very long time

[timid idol]

sounds a bit like outlaw

guess who got the nerfs

[stuck sparrow]

i mean outlaw has had more good seasons

[cinder relic]

I'm saying if you are expecting to always be good by going ret you are dumb

[stuck sparrow]

than ret has

[timid idol]

except im pretty sure outlaw is below ret most of the time even when both are mid

[cinder relic]

Ret is very rarely raid viable

It's also rarely good in keys

No amount of complaining changes this fact

[stuck sparrow]

outlaw most of the time is fine in raid just

can have times sin or sub are better

and its the same class

[fossil lintel]

Ret was good on tww S1 no?

[stuck sparrow]

not really

[fossil lintel]

It was definitely above average

[stuck sparrow]

[ebon maple]

whats ur guys ui set up look like?

[stuck sparrow]

Who are we setting as “average”

[jolly geyser]

good for me

[cinder relic]

Tww s1 was fury and fdk

[stuck sparrow]

you forgot enhance

[cinder relic]

Ret was unplayble in raid Becuase melee spots are limited and they are worse than rogue, dk and fury

Their raid buff is replaced by an hpal

[indigo hornet]

How big was the outlaw nerf

[cinder relic]

Like 5%

[fossil lintel]

Pins

[jolly geyser]

when was that ret rework so to speak?

[cinder relic]

DF s1 mid season patch

[lavish timber]

outlaw still strong?

[cinder relic]

Maybe....

[lavish timber]

or suty is better now?

[grim spear]

it's just rwf though. ret has been fine in raids since the 10.0 rework, at least for most ce guilds

[cinder relic]

I think the good fights for each spec remain the same

[loud moat]

Worse off with numbers, but depending on how things pan out with the buff and FB, we might atleast get back a more fluid playstyle.

[cinder relic]

If that's your benchmark then rogue has been fine for literal decades

But I also wouldn't call the rogue situation this tier "fine"

[jolly geyser]

he was thinking pvp

[cinder relic]

I'd say rogue struggled this tier

The same way that ret struggles most tiers

[thorny hull]

and rogue is pure dps class

xd

[jolly geyser]

and ret got players

[fossil lintel]

The biggest problem Ret had last season was that their damage profile was a joke

[cinder relic]

Idt most "ret players" flex holy or prot

[fossil lintel]

Negative prio damage

[cinder relic]

The biggest problem ret has is it's a melee dps that doesn't do anything

So it exists only to be overtuned, or not good enough

Its raid buff has a healer alternative that is usually fine enough

[fossil lintel]

Isn't that the exact same for every rogue?

[cinder relic]

And melee spots are usually tight

No because rogue raid buff doesn't exist elsewhere

[fossil lintel]

Yeah and doesn't work half the time

[cinder relic]

And for the past 6+ years, it's been good enough to bring

[cinder relic]

This isn't true

Please stop saying this

It works most of the time

[jolly geyser]

buff is a nothing burger ngl

[cinder relic]

Atro works more times than it doesn't but for some people think it's the inverse idk why

[loud moat]

The problem with the rogue "raid buff" is that the 3,6% DR is nearly irrelevant outside of RWF/HoF level raiding, before more gear becomes available and nerfs start rolling in.

[fossil lintel]

They should seriously give rogue bloodlust already

[cinder relic]

Then so is paladin buff

[harsh forge]

atro is extremely good at all levels of prog

the worse your guild is the better it becomes

[cinder relic]

Atro is good it's just rogue this tier was exceptionally bad on the hard fights

[grim spear]

for real? though comparing it this way doesn't tell the full story either, Ret has outperformed Rogue in at least the majority of raid tiers from 10.0

[cinder relic]

Should atro also be better? I'd say yes

I don't think ur understanding what I'm saying

Ret raid buff is replaceable

Rogue raid buff isn't

You can say it doesn't matter, or it's not good

But ret raid buff is usually just on an hpal

[fossil lintel]

That is pre patch vault numbers

At least select the right partition

[stuck sparrow]

so has outlaw

[cinder relic]

Didn't even see that part lol

[loud moat]

The rogue buff is more of a quality of life thing with no strict necessity to have it and often times can easily be substituted with the use of smaller CDs on the problematic parts of the fight where the damage drop might even be noticeable and yeah, the paladin buff is in the same boat.

[stuck sparrow]

rogue has 2 bad bosses this tier and people lose their minds

[random stirrup]

all 3 of the df raids are prepatch data

[stuck sparrow]

its kinda funny

[random stirrup]

in that message

[loud moat]

The difference is, paladins also have support CDs.

Which we don't.

[cinder relic]

Can we stop the alrp

Like actually

[stuck sparrow]

support cds

lmfao

what????

bop ok

[fossil lintel]

Alrp?

[glass mortar]

paladin utility blows us out of the water but rogue is the lowest bar in the game for utility

[cinder relic]

Rogue is weak in raid rn this tier. Atro should be buffed. Can we not pretend that ret is usually a good melee dps?

[glass mortar]

ret is competing with tank and healer role

[loud moat]

Ansurek and Freedom on priests f.ex.?

[glass mortar]

that provides identical utility

[loud moat]

Just one example.

[glass mortar]

so its still rough for them

[fossil lintel]

What's an alrp?

[cinder relic]

This matters but like, nobody is playing ret on these fights for this

[cinder relic]

Larp

Pretending

Make believe

[stuck sparrow]

yeah who tf played ret on ansurek

[fossil lintel]

Oh

[stuck sparrow]

at a high level

[grim spear]

ret is usually a good melee in raid, since 10.0

[cinder relic]

I mean a lot of guilds play non optimal comps it's very normal

[cinder relic]

This isn't true

[stuck sparrow]

yeah but lets not pretend ret was super relevant

for ansurek

[cinder relic]

This is the first Tier where I'd say ret is a good melee to bring

And it's really only on lura where it's exceptionally good

[stuck sparrow]

you just had your priests play gnome

[loud moat]

Nope, but the example was about having a support CD, that can be used as a ret.

[stuck sparrow]

or got freedom from hpal

[loud moat]

Similar stuff applies to almost all other classes.

[floral crown]

retri was kinda insane in DF no?

[loud moat]

Our problem is the lack of utility.

[fossil lintel]

When was the last tier that outlaw was good to bring on raid?

[cinder relic]

Vault

[stuck sparrow]

how often do you need more than 1 freedom

[loud moat]

After the removal of OG smoke bomb.

[stuck sparrow]

in raid

[craggy barn]

the problem with rogue "raid buff" is that its on the target and only affects things that come from the debuffed target, so it gets fucked when things arent attributed to the target

[grim spear]

by rwf or hof standards, you mean?

[cinder relic]

Either?

You can kill bosses with suboptimal comps

[fossil lintel]

We were okay on vault, but raz was sub all the way

[cinder relic]

Ret hasn't been exceptionally good for a very long time. This is the first in a long time

[silver venture]

imagine if instead rogue just had a 1 hour 2% haste buff

[craggy barn]

gross

[stuck sparrow]

nah raz was either if you werent raiding top end

[craggy barn]

i dont want a haste buff

[river wing]

3%

[craggy barn]

i dont want to exist to make other specs op

[cinder relic]

The entire start to this discussion was somebody saying "I'm gonna reroll ret because ret is always good"

The only point I'm making is that you are stupid if you think this is a good idea

[stuck sparrow]

idk why people pretend sub was mandatory on raz at like wr 200

[silver venture]

wheres the monkey paw catch

[craggy barn]

i posit, rog buff should be the skyfury auto attack buff

[river wing]

that's it
that's your utility for the next decade

[random stirrup]

picking ret is funny

[loud moat]

Smoke B. was amazing as a tool, since it allowed you to counter a fair bit of mechanics or just be used as a flat raid defensive.

[fossil lintel]

I agree, if you want to be generally good play mage instead of ret

[random stirrup]

should pick something that's actually always good

like dk or hunter

[craggy barn]

skyfury should NOT be doing 2 buffs

[loud moat]

I mean fine, positioning it and the raid had its issues...

[craggy barn]

fucking gross

[silver venture]

still better what we currently have

[stuck sparrow]

smokebomb hasnt been a thing on rogue

in modern wow

[floral crown]

Safest bet is just going DH, clearly someone in blizz team is a huge DH fanboy

[cinder relic]

If your bar for "being good" is just world rank 200 guilds (which isn't flame when I say this) literally rogue fits this bill the exact same way

[stuck sparrow]

that was literally a lifetime ago

[silver venture]

only reason i get invites into nexus point is bcs i can disable ethereal gate for first pull lmao

[nova sinew]

Druid quietly gets to be in the meta comp in some form every single season

[burnt sable]

i mean but skyfury has the buff cause of windfury being such a big thing for shaman

[nova sinew]

For years and years

[random stirrup]

dh has not been strong in ages

[ancient cobalt]

bro should i go otl or sub for lura

[random stirrup]

havoc was perma mid

[random stirrup]

yep

[ancient cobalt]

i did 20 pulls as otl it was sick nasty

[floral crown]

Ya but now with devourer they are the developers favorite child

[random stirrup]

maybe with dev they keep it op

[grim spear]

rwf and hof play a completely different game from what the majority of people play

[nova sinew]

@random stirrup messing around with dk, it’s kinda insane

[random stirrup]

ive been saying

[river wing]

tbh playing MoP really brought back some stuff I really forgot
the game lost so much silly little interactions somewhere between WoD and BfA, it's kinda insane

[nova sinew]

Just literally better in every possible way

[silver venture]

wasnt vengence like top tier tank for 2 past xpacs

[loud moat]

My point was, when has rogue had anything really tangible to offer to a group since the removal of it?

[stuck sparrow]

no

[cinder relic]

I AGREE BUT ROGUE IS FINE IN HOF RAIDING THE SAME WAY RET IS

[grim spear]

by that standard, windwalker is also a 'good melee'
it stands out in extreme dps check fights

[stuck sparrow]

vdh was good for 1 tier

[river wing]

for M+ mostly

[cinder relic]

Listen to my words please

[stuck sparrow]

lmfao

[random stirrup]

dh had a couple good tiers in keys

[cinder relic]

Holy fuck

[random stirrup]

as tank

[nova sinew]

Even movement dk is arguably better than those in some ways

[cinder relic]

If you think ret is good in HOF raiding then so is rogue

[nova sinew]

Two charges of spring with a 45s cd

[random stirrup]

udk has 0 weaknesses

[nova sinew]

Go read the wowhead guide weaknesses bro

[teal mortar]

is outlaw getting overall buff or overall nerf through new class tuning

[nova sinew]

I can’t

[random stirrup]

ya i posted them here before

[nova sinew]

Its so funny

[cinder relic]

If u wanna play something always broken unironically go dk

Not fucking ret paladin

[stuck sparrow]

or mage

[random stirrup]

like fdk you can at least argue gets boned sometimes

[nova sinew]

Dk is so far above everything else man like

[clear tulip]

can't transmog baguette daggers

[river wing]

overall nerf, but it's possible Trickster and FB are now almost equal and you can pick whatever if we're lucky

[burnt sable]

dk is literally the safest dps to play of all time i stg

[random stirrup]

they dont get the giga op death charge and they are actually a melee

[floral crown]

DK was kinda ass in Nerub'ar

[stuck sparrow]

what

????

[random stirrup]

udk is just neither

[random stirrup]

insane statement

[ancient cobalt]

guys are u otl or sub on lura now

[teal mortar]

thx mate

[nova sinew]

LOL

[stuck sparrow]

i want whatever drugs this guy is on

[nova sinew]

Sub for prog

[ebon maple]

noob question but at what combo point do you do finishers, 5+,6+,7?

[ancient cobalt]

how many pulls u do already

[river wing]

6+ atm

[ancient cobalt]

im at the beginning so i can pick

[ebon maple]

ty

[nova sinew]

Killed after >400

Mostly sub but I went outlaw late

[stuck sparrow]

dk was like best melee in nerubar

if you forget enhance existed