ye, no motivation to lvl them much yet
#outlaw
jolly geyser
I havent seen many shadows now that you say
valid hound
whats more fun, havoc or fury warrior?
light mountain
Sub has been dumbed down to the point its bm tier 💀
jovial dome
But I don’t know if it’s good or not
I mean...it's fun <_<
I'm not sure I'd call it "good" per se
unkempt dew
Hmm it looks cool
clever wasp
whats more fun, havoc or fury warrior?
Arms>>>>>
jovial dome
Yeah I've always loved the theme. A bunch of ghosts just smashing the target
jolly geyser
whats more fun, havoc or fury warrior?
played fury in remix,but havoc mobility is nice
jovial dome
Havoc is great if you love the Zoom Zoom playstyle
valid hound
and fury is more like stand and deal big damage?
jolly geyser
eeh
next thunder
I want to like arms but hate changing the hero talents to choose between AoE/ST in M+ T.T
valid hound
im thinking between these 2 for my alt
jovial dome
Yeah...you do move some but not like Havoc
The problem with those as Alts is you're going to be competing against the better specs of those classes. Arms and Devourer
valid hound
arms is better than fury rn?
jovial dome
Yeah in M+
valid hound
i mean visually i like arms as well
jovial dome
Yeah I don't know much about raid so couldn't say there
valid hound
is the gear different between arms and fury? (like its between outlaw and sub)
jovial dome
yeah
Fury plays Haste Mastery/ Arms plays Crit....as much crit as you can get
and some haste
next thunder
Fury and Arms gettin boofed
clever wasp
Fury and Arms gettin boofed
It was just to compensate for thier slayer nerfs last week
Its a whatever buff if u look past this week
jovial dome
It's basically just giving Slayer CPR after nearly killing it completely
next thunder
Fury was so peak in Legion T.T
clever wasp
sort of, arms still worst st in game on pure 1, and best st in game with cleave
frail veldt
I think that I will try my shadow priest
The new shadow crash is one of the worst abilities ever invented
Ruins the whole spec imo right now
jovial dome
I don't mind new SC but I definitely liked the old one better
unkempt dew
The new shadow crash is one of the worst abilities ever invented
Why? What does it do?
jovial dome
It's just a tentacle that comes out and slaps your target and stuff within a radius
jovial dome
Still does the same as the old one but yeah, it can miss
neon abyss
The Outllawq nerf was necessary?
jovial dome
I think it was like 2 expacs ago when it was super OP though and man.....so many void ghosts just blasting the target made it seem so enjoyable
jovial dome
The Outllawq nerf was necessary?
Not at all
opal gazelle
Do we still have to stay in the cloud cover smoke for the benefit ? I saw in a vid it’s completely unnecessary. Maybe they will let us keep that in exchange for nerfs.
jovial dome
I'd rather they buff the spec and stop living with gimmicks
timid portal
how crazy is that sub players swapped to outlaw just to go back in 2 weeks
livid pewter
Do we still have to stay in the cloud cover smoke for the benefit ? I saw in a v...
na u dont, buff resets to full duration when cloud disappears
timid portal
21% its the cap ?
21-23% haste needed from 25% onwards its dimnish
livid pewter
21% its the cap ?
25% is cap kinda, sim will tell you to aim for 21-23% but u can get 25% just dont get more
dim parrot
More than 25 is fine
slow granite
new rogue player here, just ended gearing my outlaw (love the spec, not gonna play sub..maybe assa, both for stats and for the flavour/buttons that i can enjoy playing tbh)..not doing >18 or such..not planning at least, will outlaw still be good? is the nerf like A LOT?
dim parrot
Just sim
lean shadow
new rogue player here, just ended gearing my outlaw (love the spec, not gonna pl...
play dk or pala blizz actually likes those melee
slow granite
play dk or pala blizz actually likes those melee
xD
i started evoker to play preservation ,it was dogshit, i went aug and even if it's op i couldnt care less
i can't force myself to play something only cuz it's good
thank god one of the friends i play with is a brewmaster..that way i can play anyway..usually
dim parrot
Just keep playing outlaw it’s the most fun
slow granite
yea that's the plan..now i only need the Gaze
slow granite
i have to rogues i gear one for a spec thats good and one for outlaw
true chad behaviour
slow granite
Just keep playing outlaw it’s the most fun
one of the few specs with more than 3 buttons left to press..
slender wadi
how much dps % will we lose?
slow granite
the pruning was a bit too much
slow granite
how much dps % will we lose?
new here BUT from the pinned messages it seems like 6% ST and 4% AOE based on target count
.
slender wadi
ah ty
slow granite
idk who he is (sorry again, new) but honestly ppl like him in these discords are heros, not even 1 day in and already did the math
slender wadi
its not that bad then
random stirrup
idk who he is (sorry again, new) but honestly ppl like him in these discords are...
goat outlaw theorycrafter
valid hound
doing math better than blizzard developers
random stirrup
the most trusted one
slow granite
goat outlaw theorycrafter
clearly goated.
are there different theorycrafters based on the spec?
snow totem
Because Claude wrote the notes for rogue
elfin grotto
Guys, is there a way to analyze my log in terms of whether I casted BTE with 5 instead of 6+ CP, can't seem to find that
hollow bloom
we dont even get developer notes to explain the thought process
Made some Ai notes if you want those
random stirrup
are there different theorycrafters based on the spec?
yes
slow granite
we dont even get developer notes to explain the thought process
"we noticed that rogue is not unholy dk or devourer, so we decided to nerf it instantly instead of buffing it 3 times and then nerfing it once"
random stirrup
mainly whispyr assa, solo outlaw, eleem/fuu sub
hollow bloom
“We noticed the rogue class in the corner asking for attention. What the hell is outlaw?”
slow granite
mainly whispyr assa, solo outlaw, eleem/fuu sub
gaunt palm
1 point away :(
Why are we so 
in draenor?
lean shadow
“We noticed the rogue class in the corner asking for attention. What the hell is...
"wait people still play rogue" we can fix that
inner meadow
Why are we so <:otl:433007796666236958> in draenor?
i played with ur healer
and ur warrior
in that key
jolly geyser
Big server
gaunt palm
we play again later, getting that 21 aa
gaunt palm
inner meadow
do you know the monk?
gaunt palm
nope not this guy
inner meadow
hmm
gaunt phoenix
Looks like outlaw should get nerfed and arms should get buffed to me
gaunt palm
reroll maybe?
jolly geyser
bonus rolls
gaunt palm
Probably wants to try phys comp
inner meadow
as he should
elfin grotto
!log
inner meadow
Looks like outlaw should get nerfed and arms should get buffed to me
agreed
but fuck me i had like the most insane opener
this key
lemme see if i can find it
gaunt palm
Yo is there a way to filter a WCL to count all trash damage, and on boss fights only count boss dmg? I think we might be on top tbf. Zac has been sandbagging with these details pics, but its not the real truth 
gaunt palm
go buy lottery rn
inner meadow
yeaa
jolly geyser
17?
inner meadow
hahahaha
crimson scarab
my record is 9-10 i think
slow granite
jolly geyser
crimson scarab
completely understandble tbh
jolly geyser
even better
slow granite
its always 50/50, u either get a proc or dont
true gambler mentality
crimson scarab
true gambler mentality
thats why im playing outlaw
slim hare
with 4 roll aswell btw
na thats crazy
still not gapping everyone
legit unethical luck*
slow granite
thats why im playing outlaw
yea buddy
jolly geyser
outlaw keeping me from irl gambling
gaunt palm
https://medal.tv/games/world-of-warcraft/clips/mD2VilYY3WOxkqkUB?invite=cr-MSx5T...
This is actually making me so happy
jolly geyser
big
coral wyvern
wasnt blizzard removing button bloat in midnight? Trickster feels SO BLOATED
my god
inner meadow
wasnt blizzard removing button bloat in midnight? Trickster feels SO BLOATED
fun
only reason outlaw is fun is cause it's still hard to play
:D
jolly geyser
Fabbe is swedish, 100%
crimson scarab
wasnt blizzard removing button bloat in midnight? Trickster feels SO BLOATED
u only have KS additionally no?
crimson scarab
compared to FB
jolly geyser
blind
coral wyvern
u only have KS additionally no?
preparation even in dungeons
crimson scarab
i was running prep with FB as well tbh
pure folio
only reason outlaw is fun is cause it's still hard to play
propaganda
crimson scarab
but still i get what u mean
inner meadow
propaganda
sub is sooooo boring now
last season sub was really fun
and assa is boring aswell
pure folio
I meant outlaw being fun or hard
coral wyvern
yeah like... I really liked where outlaw was in fatebound, I really dont have any more buttons to comfortably put KS and I kinda hate this ability now
lean shadow
!ui
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc:
Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent
inner meadow
@gaunt palm do you beat ur warrior in dps in keys?
shit feels impossible
he's too goat
ed
gaunt palm
Not in details overall, but like I cancelaura bladeflurry for him constantly, so it's pad diff
crimson scarab
why would u cancel blade flurry?
inner meadow
funnel i assume
latent oak
warrior needs 3 targets in st to pop off
jolly geyser
gaunt palm
if there are 3 adds: with 1m hp , 500k, 500k, and I bladeflurry , Im canceled
inner meadow
don't feel like there is too much of that in mt tho
most of it is kinda even
or really large packs
maybe on like 1st pyromancer pack after 2nd pull
gaunt palm
Well we also pull funnel on boss 1,2, beginning of 3
inner meadow
what do you pull on 2nd boss?
gaunt palm
ehWtf
lost pasture
is the nerf active now?
grim steppe
lost pasture
kk
plain heath
is dungeon slice sim reliable for outlaw or do we sim 5t 5 mins for m+?
narrow pasture
dslice is fine but results will vary based on dungeon/routes on live
pure folio
2 enforcers
this is bird boss?
crimson scarab
its 2nd boss in MT
pure folio
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok
interesting
thats actually pretty cool, i assume his spawn condition is just that 2 spellbraeker pack dying and not the whole hallway
tardy gust
How big of a dmg percentage loss is the nerf?
inner meadow
How big of a dmg percentage loss is the nerf?
6% st 4% aoe
crimson scarab
.
gaunt phoenix
like 4-6%
tardy gust
ahh ok cool
twin drift
does the energy starvation fixes with more haste?
gaunt phoenix
energy starving cannot be fixed entirely, as it is based on rng
if you approach 25% haste then you shouldn't starve all that often
it is still more likely to happen in low-target cleave like dragons and vanguard
and if you get unlucky and drain your thistle tea
playing well also influences energy though
ashen void
i find it also makes a difference when amber is the color of your energy
reef plinth
OOooh shit a 311 reference.
ashen void
twin drift
energy starving cannot be fixed entirely, as it is based on rng
ty for the info, im leveling and feels really bad
gaunt phoenix
oh for sure, leveling rogue is perhaps the worst leveling experience in the game
it is the class with the most disparity between created and max level characters
twin drift
tyty
twin drift
they got buff
verbal pulsar
So... locks just dodged all the nerfs
every class they play with just got nerfed
it's an indirect nerf
vivid vessel
it's an indirect nerf
Sounds like an indirect buff then lol
valid hound
solo, is it known by how much is trickster better now? or you're still testing
verbal pulsar
Sounds like an indirect buff then lol
well it's not like you're going to start stacking demo so it still hurts team timer
zealous plinth
I rlly don’t get this nerf….
vivid vessel
solo, is it known by how much is trickster better now? or you're still testing
Under 2% in dungeons most likely
It's more of a st diff than AOE diff also I believe
vivid vessel
Yes
torpid steeple
2% is acceptable, i'd switch to fb right away
Same lol. I like flippy coin.
valid hound
yeah, and i hate ks
torpid steeple
It looks so goofy
grim spear
the coin design is just as trash, if not worse
ks at least is a design
the coin has no design whatsoever
shadow trellis
i had to mute coin sounds
torpid steeple
In the rare case I'm at 5 CP with 6 opportunity and BtE available what do I do?
shadow trellis
coin sounds is such a slop
ancient hamlet
hello guys, which is better please - embelish on 2 weapons or 1 weapon and waist for example?
gaunt phoenix
In the rare case I'm at 5 CP with 6 opportunity and BtE available what do I do?
you ps > bte
gaunt phoenix
hello guys, which is better please - embelish on 2 weapons or 1 weapon and waist...
it should be the same result
torpid steeple
thank you 🙂
ancient hamlet
kk thank you
grim spear
I just enjoy watching the coin flips
even in terms of presentation, the coin is garbage
visually and the sound effect
ashen birch
!logs
fair charm
hello guys, which is better please - embelish on 2 weapons or 1 weapon and waist...
Darkmoon seems to be stronger than other embellishments but you gotta use a crafted weapon with 3 less ilevel so it balances.
ashen birch
!logs
anyone mind taking a look at this log? Not a great run, but I feel like my damage is pretty bad for ilvl and how I feel like I understand the spec
fair charm
even in terms of presentation, the coin is garbage
visually and the sound effect
Aww people always comment on my cool coins and tumbleweed. Everyone I group with loves the tumbleweed for some reason lol.
frail veldt
I barely even notice my own tumble weed
dusty blaze
i didn't even realise there was tumbleweed
hardy thicket
theres a tumbleweed?
fair charm
It’s become a dumb game to see how many weeds I can chain. I need an addon. I’m at 8 lol
fair charm
i didn't even realise there was tumbleweed
You’ll see it all the time now when you BTE.
frail veldt
its very small
ancient hamlet
Darkmoon seems to be stronger than other embellishments but you gotta use a craf...
Okok, but I was wondering which was better since i don't raid i most likely won't be able to get bis weap
thanks for the info:)
fair charm
its very small
I WAS IN THE POOL!!
grim spear
the main thing is the coin design is just catastrophically bad
intern-level game design
fair charm
Okok, but I was wondering which was better since i don't raid i most likely won'...
Yeah if crafted offhand for example is the best ya got, make a dagger and put darkmoon void on it. Otherwise, use two mythic weapons and cram arcanoweave and lens on items.
Personally I like arcanoweave more than lens because I hate rainbow sockets, especially since the primary gem that benefits from mismatched gems is less than stellar this time.
random stirrup
i dont think you do rainbow gem stuff
it legit buffs it by 1%
prismatic was a gain for me just running primary stat gem and normal full same color gems
sudden veldt
are you happy with how outlaw plays overall outside of tuning?
glass mortar
no
deep sequoia
how down bad are we @vivid vessel
fair charm
prismatic was a gain for me just running primary stat gem and normal full same c...
I thought you get 1% more for each color of gem you add, but perhaps I’m mistaken.
fair charm
Agreed it’s small
random stirrup
yeah its a ridiculously miniscule amount of damage that isnt remotely close to just playing better gems
glass mortar
its miniscule
probably under the margin of error that sims can even measure
thats how small
fair charm
So can’t blame the pool this time… :p
random stirrup
ryldd knows nothing about gems
i have done jc orders for u before bozo
i gemmog you
fair charm
Jem and the rockers?
keen belfry
id never take a ryldd gem
vivid vessel
how down bad are we <@352916297262301194>
we got nerfed by more than aug dev and dk
actually we are the spec that got nerfed the hardest this patch
deep sequoia
back to assasin
vivid vessel
can you believe it
sudden veldt
can you believe it
yes
lean shadow
mid tier spec gets massive nerf
frail veldt
actually we are the spec that got nerfed the hardest this patch
well
the thing is
blizzard doesnt know that
vivid vessel
outlaw was outpreforming alot of specs in raid so they nerf it
it wasnt tho
sudden veldt
its not the logic they're following, for example frost dk was not bottom and got 5%aura buff which is more than bm who is last
frail veldt
they dont know how to do the math on how much the cloud cover nerfs are
sudden veldt
the reason for that is they want bring frost to unholy level
unborn basin
they dont know how to do the math on how much the cloud cover nerfs are
Any chance of them rolling back the nerfs?
rugged nova
Is it really a big nerf? Seems like if anything it’s close to neutral? Or am I wrong?
vivid vessel
look how many specs outlaw is outperforming here
ye my bad
frail veldt
Any chance of them rolling back the nerfs?
0
glass mortar
very reasonable to nerf aspec thats just above middle of the pack by 7%
blizzard does good math
vivid vessel
deserverd to get nerfed by more than dk aug and dh
deep sequoia
it wasnt tho
i mean its in the top half lol
sudden veldt
blizzard said tuning shouldnt be disruptive
glass mortar
thats true
vivid vessel
i mean its in the top half lol
and all the specs above either didnt get nerfed at all, or got nerfed by less than outlaw
and this is just raid
im not even talking about m+
glass mortar
if you nerf the op guys everyone is playing then thats pretty disruptive
vivid vessel
which is even worse
sudden veldt
gaining 13% in a patch note was never intented in the first place
torpid steeple
it wasnt tho
Laughs in shadow priest getting carried by encounter design
sudden veldt
i would
vivid vessel
gaining 13% in a patch note was never intented in the first place
why not tho
the spec was garbage
blissful idol
just buff fatebound and everything is fixed
sudden veldt
garbage or not they've already decided about how powerfull each class should be
glass mortar
its very disruptive to buff a garbage spec by so much
deep sequoia
just buff fatebound and everything is fixed
real
sudden veldt
if you want a change need to wait for 12.1
vivid vessel
garbage or not they've already decided about how powerfull each class should be
thats not true
lean shadow
garbage or not they've already decided about how powerfull each class should be
thats a weird statement
glass mortar
that means it doesnt remain garbage for the whole season
vivid vessel
i truyly believe tuning is legit just rng
deep sequoia
i truyly believe tuning is legit just rng
they just rtb on tuning ggs
sudden veldt
why they buff frost dk then by 5%?
sand nova
its whatever they got from the prompt
lean shadow
the roll a dice with each spec and then another dice that says nerf or buff
sand nova
i work at blizzard i must PROMPTTT
torpid steeple
RNG and outlaw name a more iconic duo
plain portal
Waiting 6 months for tuning would be dogshit lmao
fresh acorn
I think they try to prefire tuning
Like oh if nerf the good specs we might wanna hit the ones we think are next in line
sudden veldt
you cant tell me 5% to frost dk is just rng
plain portal
Blizz needs to learn from riot and tune more often if anything
lean shadow
were gunna be giga op after 12.0.7 boys
sudden veldt
instead of a deliberate choice to bring it to unholy level
frail veldt
its whatever they got from the prompt
the prompt would be way better tbh
random stirrup
fdk is still shit compared to udk
glass mortar
no its a buff to a spec thats underperforming
smoky grotto
hello guys, im inda lost everytime on what do do during the oponer : Adrenaline Rush, Blade Rush, Blade furry, Killing spree, Roll the bones, BTE what is the oponer rotation for every pack please ?
glass mortar
which is generally what u expect to a spec thats underperforming
sudden veldt
fdk is still shit compared to udk
not according to logs
lean shadow
hello guys, im inda lost everytime on what do do during the oponer : Adrenaline ...
wowhead has an opener
lean shadow
camel holding alot of bs instead of water in those humps
sudden veldt
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1500188092727034037/im...
thats not garbage, feral for example is lower and didnt get buffed
glass mortar
yes?
im sorry do u think their tuning is always "the worst 3 specs get buffed"
because that is just not the case
sudden veldt
5% buff for a spec ranking there is ALOT
glass mortar
sometimes they do just let guys sit at the bottom while buffing specs that r slightly above them
why? 🤷
but its not a surprise when a spec thats in the bottom quarter of parses gets buffs
smoky grotto
wowhead has an opener
in the wowhead rotation, they place RtB first in the list but i thought we watnted to always to AR before to buff our dice, is it not mandatory ?
frail veldt
it IS surprise when a spec thats in the middle of the pack gets a massive nerf t...
not when its outlaw
sudden veldt
technically its above average but i agree
frail veldt
thats expected
long bramble
gaining 13% in a patch note was never intented in the first place
I think the nerf isn’t intended I genuinely believe it
frail veldt
technically its above average but i agree
thats what middle of the pack means
its anywhere in that first stdev from the mean
glass mortar
sure its good. outlaw damage was good
random stirrup
I don't think the buff or nerf via cloud cover was intended
glass mortar
it wasnt anything anyone was trying to stack or aiming to grab for keys or op really in any way
random stirrup
im not sure they actually know how strong it was
glass mortar
outlaw has been way stronger then this in seasons prior and it didnt get nerfed due to it (other people got buffed up to it)
random stirrup
math is hard!
glass mortar
so seeing this nerf is pretty absurd ngl
fluid meadow
but bugs balancing the game much better as the devs so sad
radiant wyvern
"i'd like to get an outlaw rogue in here for this boss" a sentence never before seen in the english language
glass mortar
the obvious answer to me is they do intend for outlaw to be shitty this season, which is a shitty answer, and they simply didnt do math on the new talent on ptr
lean shadow
"i'd like to get an outlaw rogue in here for this boss" a sentence never before ...
i say that all the time in my head
glass mortar
i mean the new talent barely functioned as intended design wise so thats no surprise
clearly didnt intend for the DR or crit to stack even tho i was told i was being negative and dumb for saying that day 1
gaunt phoenix
?
if you have nothing, then you adrenaline rush > roll the bones > slice and dice
but, RTB and SND are generally already active.
also, if you used adrenaline rush before the key started, you already have loaded dice going into the key, so you can roll the bones before AR.
then you must blade flurry > blade rush > finisher, and BTE is the priority finisher. then you Preparation as soon as BtE is not available, so you can BF > BR > BtE again
and dont forget to Keep it rolling if you hit stage 3+
vivid vessel
the obvious answer to me is they do intend for outlaw to be shitty this season, ...
weird that this happen every season tho !
gaunt phoenix
KS is not used until bte and prep bte are exhausted
unless you are holding prep for something
vivid vessel
how come the 2 times outlaw was good in recent history it was unintended guys
this cloud cover buff
(was it even good idk)
and s2 tww
glass mortar
i mean no
vivid vessel
when we forced them to fix bf
glass mortar
outlaw on live is fine
sudden veldt
you still have till tuesday, they can revert the nerf or buff more to compensate
glass mortar
decently strong id say
but like
we were way stronger in df s3
i felt stronger tww s2 even
🤷
fathom bramble
the obvious answer to me is they do intend for outlaw to be shitty this season, ...
yeah... they accidentally buffed it too much and whether it's a problem or not they are reverting it significantly
fathom bramble
I don't think it even matters if outlaw needs a nerf right now
lean shadow
how come the 2 times outlaw was good in recent history it was unintended guys
what about the bug in season 1 tww
glass mortar
funny stuff
lean shadow
good times
zealous plinth
you still have till tuesday, they can revert the nerf or buff more to compensate
They won’t 
fathom bramble
it's all based on the buff being an accident in the first place
vivid vessel
decently strong id say
i mean its still not even top 10 spec in the game, and you bring 0 utility 0 raid buff
so like
idk
glass mortar
yea
vivid vessel
and you are hard capped
glass mortar
its a joke
vivid vessel
no cooldowns
glass mortar
defending a nerf of this size to a spec in this position at all is a joke
blizzard is a joke for whatever math they are doing there to get this as the result
what do u want me to say zac
sudden veldt
They won’t <:kekW:1154380282720436307>
they ve done it multiple times but not to outlaw specifically
glass mortar
its bad
short briar
Smoke still btr I assume?
glass mortar
fathom bramble
defending a nerf of this size to a spec in this position at all is a joke
specs considerably above us are all seeing nerfs half the size so
there's basically no reasonable justification
glass mortar
yup
vivid vessel
idk these mfs are acting like they got tuning figured out
like yes
outlaw needs to be at this specific spot
glass mortar
ive never been so convinced of AI math at blizzard theory personally but thats w/e
vivid vessel
specific spot being bottom every tier
glass mortar
its hardly even an insult the entire industry is heading that direction
vivid vessel
for whatever reason
short briar
Repenting for bfa sins
sudden veldt
assa rogue didnt get any buff in this patch why shouldnt he complain?
i find it weird to complain about something that was given for free
aka the outlaw buff
lean shadow
?
vivid vessel
you are cooked
glass mortar
assa rogue didnt get any buff in this patch why shouldnt he complain?
they can feel free to complain
lean shadow
its okay to be wrong ya know
glass mortar
do u think anyone in here would say they couldnt?
smoky grotto
during oponer, if we have SnD already active, we AR -> RtB -> Blade furry even if we are already full cb ? is it worth to waste a full cp bar ?
deep sequoia
Sin also got like 4 buffs back to back
shadow trellis
i find it weird to complain about something that was given for free
it feels worse when you are given something and then it gets taken away
vivid vessel
also assa on live is prolly the exact same as outal
in term of damage
but its uncapped
unkempt dew
Outlaw is better
gaunt phoenix
during oponer, if we have SnD already active, we AR -> RtB -> Blade furry even...
yes it's fine, you need to AR and you need to BF if it's not active, so not much else you can do
sudden veldt
it feels worse when you are given something and then it gets taken away
they didnt take all of it did they?
unkempt dew
More aura
craggy barn
outlaw is an outlier so it must be adjusted
astral granite
Lmao they nerfed outlaw. Outlaw good just theoretically lol
smoky grotto
yes it's fine, you need to AR and you need to BF if it's not active, so not much...
okay thx
sudden veldt
its okay to be wrong ya know
100%
shadow trellis
they didnt take all of it did they?
stop moving the goal posts dude. nerf was not waranted at all
thick vigil
sudden veldt
only blizz can say that
glass mortar
of all the reasons to be angry at the devs
nerfing a spec that is not in anyway op or even a little unreasonable
glass mortar
is one of the best ones u can have
lean flax
Is there seriously someone in here who's trying to justify the outlaw nerfs
glass mortar
it just means they did math bad
lean flax
Are you okay bro
glass mortar
or alternatively, they want ur spec to be shit
astral granite
Is there seriously someone in here who's trying to justify the outlaw nerfs
They have to reduce BF target count to 3
sudden veldt
or alternatively, they want ur spec to be shit
thats my belief
shadow trellis
its a troll prolly doesnt even have a rogue leveled
lean shadow
its nice to have an excuse for bad dmg tho
craggy barn
they just needa pull a wod demo and tell us theyd rather no one play law
glass mortar
ok then thats shit, and u shouldnt be doing any defending of them fori t
this isnt league of legends where the goal should be to rotate specs out of existence seasonally
sudden veldt
when did i defend them?
plain portal
If any of the devs legit believe that outlaw should be shit they should be fired LMAO
glass mortar
ur asking us why we are upset about unjust nerfs
it comes off as u defending them
otherwise i dont know why you would even ask
what is confusing about people being upset about unjust nerfs
shadow trellis
hes enjoying the frustration
surreal panther
does anybody here use ayije that can help me ?
sudden veldt
you should get used to it
astral granite
Is sub getting buffed with the same changes but outlaw getting nerfed?
sudden veldt
is my point
craggy barn
does anybody here use ayije that can help me ?
what u need
fathom bramble
we are
glass mortar
what makes you think we arent used to it?
fluid meadow
i wanna play cloud with jumping ks ( give it back jk), i don't wanna see anything which killes me on the ground and just randomly leap into that with blade rush too, i think it's a fair thing. would be a big cook from blizz.
fathom bramble
have you seen how people talk about law in here
everyone is 100% expecting and use to it
Zac was complaining about this nerf a week ago
and we didn't even see it yet
glass mortar
its our fault guys remember what guy said when we were all imagining fake nerfs that blizzard hadnt even thought about yet
we made it real
surreal panther
what u need
you see the abilities above my CP i only want to them to show when they are active but i dont know how to do that
sudden veldt
unfortunately
shadow trellis
I thought it would be so silly to nerf us after we barelly broke the middle of the pack
but it happened
glass mortar
u r right it is silly
blizzard is just being a little silly
those are the nice words
🥰
sudden veldt
but something none of you is expecting tho is reverts on monday
i personnaly believe in it
glass mortar
well no, because the fact that they would even signal this nerf
random stirrup
but something none of you is expecting tho is reverts on monday
galactic level cope
glass mortar
when its clear for anyone with eyes how outlaw is performing
sudden veldt
youll see
glass mortar
shows theres a massive disconnect between them and us
or they just dont care
which again is the energy i get from it
opal valve
Yea I mean I just started playing outlaw cuz of how gutted sub was after changes. Been enjoying it, but i remember from never playing outlaw hearing about this sorta thing and seeing it consistently. Outlaw doesn’t get to shine
It’s hard not be doomer for this spec. It’s not our faults either.
brisk tusk
Oh yeah cause vlizzard has a greeeeeat track record of promptly reverting unjustified nerfs
opal valve
have you seen how people talk about law in here
It’s a shame lol.
glass mortar
vivid vessel
still waiting for a tier where the other specs players need to reroll outlaw
craggy barn
lol
vivid vessel
at this point i wasnt even born
we going back
back
is that 10 years ago or what
plain portal
Bros talking about like 8 years ago
fathom bramble
something like that
opal valve
the only rogues that play all 3 specs are outlaw mains
Yea, and what a reward to the few that do enjoy all the class’s specs.
fathom bramble
also that was keys only
craggy barn
you see the abilities above my CP i only want to them to show when they are acti...
hmm not sure, it works how u want for me but im not at my pc rn to check
fathom bramble
outlaw has never been the spec of choice like that in raid
shadow trellis
tell me Rogue was cool in Vanilla
cinder relic
galactic level cope
Idk about reverts but they might give a larger aura buff
sudden veldt
it was arguably very dtrong in df s3 too
vivid vessel
Idk about reverts but they might give a larger aura buff
you havent even tweeted yet guy
its too late
sudden veldt
this is where melee comp was born
glass mortar
it was extremely strong in df s3
vivid vessel
we aint getting nothing
shadow trellis
it was arguably very dtrong in df s3 too
as was Sub and Assa
cinder relic
I'm busy man leave me alone
glass mortar
kinda crazy how nobody was playing it but outlaw players tho
vivid vessel
perception isnt bad enough
tight kernel
plain portal
Outlaw hasn’t been the raid spec the entire time it’s been called outlaw pretty sure
glass mortar
i mean theres been individual bosses
a raid tier where u played outlaw on a majority or the important bosses tho?
shadow trellis
Outcast*
cinder relic
Outlaw hasn’t been the raid spec the entire time it’s been called outlaw pretty ...
It was correct in both vault and castle nathria
glass mortar
thats pretty rare
cinder relic
Which was a long time ago but it has happened
vivid vessel
also it got nerfed during vault before i even got to last boss
which is kinda crazy
shadow trellis
Vault was Assa tier tho
vivid vessel
only time outlaw was the prog spec
glass mortar
bro vault was so good
cinder relic
Vault was Assa tier tho
It wasn't
glass mortar
remember when we got a nerf week 2
sudden veldt
@vivid vessel you didnt play bfa?
plain portal
In vault you ended up up sub on raz
opal valve
It was correct in both vault and castle nathria
Oh I thought I remembered sin being king back then.
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> you didnt play bfa?
i started in sl
glass mortar
i guess its true they could never do math
cinder relic
In vault you ended up up sub on raz
You could play either. Sub was a smidge better for platform damage
Outlaw did more st overall thru the fight
fathom bramble
there are times where outlaw was arguably the best spec
glass mortar
i think thats kinda the point they were making tho
fathom bramble
which is just another way of saying just as good as x other spec
glass mortar
when was the last time there was a raid tier
where sin or sub players had to play outlaw
for a fight
for any fights really
craggy barn
i thought sub was also better shield damage
fathom bramble
but it has never been the spec of choice
glass mortar
because that is every single season that ever happens for u bozos playing outlaw at the top end
fathom bramble
not to an extent that can trigger rerolls
glass mortar
like all of them. every raid tier
cinder relic
i thought sub was also better shield damage
It was but u kinda didn't need to solve shield damage with most comps
sudden veldt
not to an extent that can trigger rerolls
how many specs had that anyway
fathom bramble
every spec on multi-dps classes has at one point had it in the last couple of expacs except maybe feral
sudden veldt
no one ever rerolled feral lol
fathom bramble
but feral has the melee vs. ranged problem
plain portal
where sin or sub players *had* to play outlaw
Exactly I can’t remember a tier where the other specs weren’t an option on some bosses.
craggy barn
isnt the biggest reroll gate just the mh issue
west ridge
blizz always hit its sights on outlaw for some reason imo
fathom bramble
that's cope
cinder relic
That's because a lot of ppl on the high end just don't view it as a serious specs
lone hedge
with the recent patch notes are we getting buffed?
west ridge
every time it excels they nerf it and quick
fathom bramble
if law was significantly better you would just eat the 1-2% loss from using a lower mh
west ridge
it was good on kurog
cinder relic
There are a lot of tiers or fights where outlaw is just correct but ppl don't bother
fathom bramble
and figure it out
craggy barn
remember s1 tww heroic week nerfs
cinder relic
I mean look at soul hunters for example
That was just an outlaw fight, but it didn't matter
vivid vessel
ye im very happy we got one fight in the last 8 year where outlaw was objectively correct
craggy barn
exile tried it in rwf. but on a scuffed char with 0 practice
vivid vessel
(they still just playued sub on it )
lone hedge
ye im very happy we got one fight in the last 8 year where outlaw was objectivel...
zac are we getting nerfed
limpid sky
ye im very happy we got one fight in the last 8 year where outlaw was objectivel...
soul hunters?
west ridge
ye cause no one bothered with outlaw cause it was too hard lol
vivid vessel
zac are we getting nerfed
we are getting nerfed by more than udk aug and devoureur, 6% st and 4% aoe
spread the word
west ridge
even rwf rogues didnt bother with it
vivid vessel
outlaw nerfed by more than the meta specs??
sudden veldt
dont go feral on me but i think no one ever rerolled arms and fury war
craggy barn
exile literally tried
vivid vessel
dont go feral on me but i think no one ever rerolled arms and fury war
people in here are talking about in between the same calss btw
west ridge
exile literally tried
for like a couple of pulls
craggy barn
we need a click bait article explaining this
plain portal
Casual needs to start sandbagging us with his vid titles man
vivid vessel
every tier outlaw one tirkcs have to reroll to sub or sin
for most figths
the opposite has never been true
glass mortar
i feel like every season one of those two warrior specs is good and i see that spec is 90% of the logs and the other one is as unplayed as outlaw or
i feel like warriors reroll between their specs every season
cinder relic
(they still just playued sub on it )
I mean that's my point
Ppl don't bother even when it's better
I mean unironically, it goes both ways
You can very easily on most fights, play outlaw and it doesn't matter
cinder relic
I mean most fights this tier for example could legit go either way
sudden veldt
lets pray for outlaw meta in 12.1
cinder relic
Like nexus king, voracious, dragons
craggy barn
i feel like warriors reroll between their specs every season
its also considerably easier to reroll between those two specs
cinder relic
If you played outlaw it didn't matter
glass mortar
for sure
cinder relic
The same way you could play sub on sh and it didn't matter
vivid vessel
you are right
sudden veldt
hot take but nothing matter
vivid vessel
idk why i even complain honestly
plain portal
lets pray for outlaw meta in 12.1
Why pray for 12.1 why pray for 4 months from now
west ridge
people just default to whats familiar
vivid vessel
i should just play outlaw
cinder relic
I'm not saying don't complain lol
cinder relic
I'm saying that the same way ppl "force sub" on the bad sub fights, you can very easily force outlaw on a lot of the "bad outlaw fights"
craggy barn
13.0 is gonna be our time guys, surely
cinder relic
Ofc, stuff like beloren and alleria and dimensius are diff
sudden veldt
zac is keeping the outlaw dream alive
sudden veldt
he is in the second best team in the world
vivid vessel
every content outlaw is the meme spec
sudden veldt
isnt that beautifull
plain portal
Bro bfa traumatized Blizz with outlaw so bad that they still refuse to uncap us
buoyant stratus
every content outlaw is the meme spec
Erm actually grappling hook is great for my world explorstion content ty
glass mortar
zac showcasing you can get backpacked even in the worlds highest keys
west ridge
Erm actually grappling hook is great for my world explorstion content ty
when it works lmao
glass mortar
it is definitly heartwarming to see his feral and arms giving the charity ❤️
random stirrup
Idk about reverts but they might give a larger aura buff
galactic level cope
vivid vessel
Erm actually grappling hook is great for my world explorstion content ty
even grapple got nerefed
kinda crazy
buoyant stratus
True actually
glass mortar
me when the two specs that are buffing zac by ~12% with their raid buffs are also gapping him by 10-20% overall
buoyant stratus
🥀
glass mortar
🥰
vivid vessel
why is outlaw the cuck spec
sudden veldt
if you can do same content as most overtuned class, why worry about not doing the most dps?
i tell myself that every day
west ridge
blizz aint reverting shit btw
inner meadow
why is outlaw the cuck spec
west ridge
we aint popular enough
glass mortar
because i like feeling like the carry
west ridge
no one is batting for us
glass mortar
not the carried
fathom bramble
why is outlaw the cuck spec
vivid vessel
ye my bad bros
west ridge
most wow content creators dont even remember rogue exists
glass mortar
that people can complete keys despite ur bad tuning is not something i see as a positive
thats like the lowest bar i could imagine in fact
random stirrup
if anything is getting reverted it will be udk or ddh nerfs
west ridge
we are all here in our bubble
sudden veldt
not the carried
alpha spirit i get it
sudden veldt
ya
glass mortar
we played outlaw last season when it was arguably the worst spec in the game
its just fun to make fun of blizzard for being dogshit, because thats what it is
when u decide to nerf a spec thats middle of the pack by more then ur nerfing the top specs
its dogshit
its a joke
restive cosmos
!ui
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
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- WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
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Misc: - Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
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sudden veldt
i wish blizz could take m+ seriously so that you feel like your decisions matter
instead of slapping a 10% modifier after each key level
opal valve
when u decide to nerf a spec thats middle of the pack by more then ur nerfing th...
I'm honestly curious if they even care about the class/spec. What would happen if rogue disappeared at all. To me it's clear that this class just doesn't matter anymore for the game.
sudden veldt
i want to be able to feel a 1% dps difference like in rwf raid
shadow trellis
i wish blizz could take m+ seriously so that you feel like your decisions matter
They take m+ seriously. they protect FOTM reroll and m+ boosters like a holy grail
random stirrup
I mean wtf else are we gonna do
i already asked to go dk for next week lura
glass mortar
what r u playin in d4
cinder relic
Rogue
young prism
Most people tend to not invite rogue at all, rogue players always have been committed to their class maybe for years. I really don't get why blizz insisting to put stones on the road for this class l mean it's not about dps or utilty when it comes to number of rogue players. It shouldn't be hard to leave rogue players alone instead of nerfing.
cinder relic
Pen shot
random stirrup
ofc we just think a 3rd is valuable because they look cool
random stirrup
fight was just weirdly a decent bit harder and requiring more coordination with only 2 of them
west ridge
amz
cinder relic
better sprint
Okay no
west ridge
okay yes
cinder relic
fight was just weirdly a decent bit harder and requiring more coordination with ...
Do u have a bdk?
random stirrup
yes
cinder relic
Ok good
west ridge
^
cinder relic
No way
west ridge
way better
cinder relic
I just refuse to believe that
glass mortar
for everyone who isnt outlaw i assume
sudden veldt
@zac you enjoy raiding as much as m+?
glass mortar
because it doesnt have a lower cd then outlaw sprint....
but for those sub and sin bozos......
vivid vessel
@zac you enjoy raiding as much as m+?
idk
west ridge
but dudes we get a 30% on our sprint as one our talents POGGIES
random stirrup
I just refuse to believe that
vivid vessel
if i could raid as outlaw maybe
frail veldt
because it doesnt have a lower cd then outlaw sprint....
yeah but our sprint doesnt do much
vivid vessel
but m+ i do it as a way higher level than raid most of the times
frail veldt
just makes go fast
cinder relic
LOL
vivid vessel
even like last tier i got rank 20 i think with guild but
glass mortar
thats better then paladin horse even???
random stirrup
yes
vivid vessel
i still feel like im doing harder content in keys
frail veldt
paladin horse sucks
random stirrup
dk immunes every root in keys this season
west ridge
better sprint, plate, more health better cloak, has an actual raid buff and amz
frail veldt
ye dk is op
random stirrup
you also have wraith walk if you need another root break
glass mortar
it doesnt replace wraith walk?????
random stirrup
no
glass mortar
oh right it replaces deaths advance
frail veldt
deaths charge replaces deaths advance right?
vivid vessel
they nerfed grapple speed btw
radiant wyvern
sprint used to break roots.....
vivid vessel
not a joke
frail veldt
grapple speed nerfed lol
glass mortar
sprint used to break roots.....
so did kspree
frail veldt
wow devs
west ridge
bro jsut delete roguyes bro
radiant wyvern
now u have 1 vanish every 2 minutes
random stirrup
you know the elemental wind guy on algethar miniboss platform right
west ridge
just add it as a dk spec
glass mortar
rogue toolkits power level is such a joke in the modern game
glass mortar
kinda crazy it got even weaker going into midnight ngl
random stirrup
because i have longer range than him
sudden veldt
i still feel like im doing harder content in keys
would it be harder than if you were trying to kill last boss within first month of the season?
valid tartan
Dk is hero class don’t forget
vivid vessel
would it be harder than if you were trying to kill last boss within first month ...
i mean we killed dimensuis within 1 month
vivid vessel
the keys i do ye for sure
you have way more personal responsibilities in keys
and damage is more relevant
sudden veldt
thats a way to see it y
glass mortar
the thing about keys is raid power level increases over time but keys r an infinite grind
so u have a key level u can reach in ur bis
vivid vessel
and also you are way more under pressure in term of damage input on yourself
drifting burrow
@vivid vessel any positive news boss?
glass mortar
then in a month when 12.0.7 gives the whole game another 10% player power or w/e
they have a new threshold of keys to push
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> any positive news boss?
outlaw get nerfed by more than dk, aug and dh
glass mortar
the grind never ends
drifting burrow
yea iknew from yesterday they changing nothing or wat
vivid vessel
no
drifting burrow
XD
long bramble
<@352916297262301194> any positive news boss?
We go back to fb
drifting burrow
im done bro
vivid vessel
We go back to fb
idk about that
glass mortar
its funny we almost had the positive news that fatebound was bis again but its still worse
weary goblet
outlaw get nerfed by more than dk, aug and dh
Us Rogues need to know our place, zac!
which is not at the table
glass mortar
legendary tuning pass
weary goblet
like can we agree please
🤝
drifting burrow
but what can we do?
weary goblet
but what can we do?
opens steam library
glass mortar
write strongly worded forum posts (dont break tos)
plain portal
Cant shut down the discord cause nobody plays this spec lmfao
drifting burrow
i swear we need to do it
random stirrup
<@96834520417828864> close the disc
not like this nairda...
west ridge
FUCK IT
drifting burrow
if we don't do it
sudden veldt
what i would like to see in m+ is a change in mechanic when you go higher, like when you move from heroic to mythic in raid
west ridge
IT WORKED FOR RET PALLIES
glass mortar
cant shut down the discord because that is cringe behavior and everyone should forever be cringing at rets for that
long bramble
that we need to do something
Bro it s not like we don’t agree I would let a dev rape me rn for some buffs ngl
glass mortar
they r the laughing stock of the game for that 1 ngl
drifting burrow
if we dont close the disc how are we gonna pull attention
plain portal
Idk Americans should go protest in person or something lmao
shadow trellis
IT WORKED FOR RET PALLIES
theres all 10 of us in here and theres 100k ret pallys
pliant orbit
At least Outlaw is meta in PvP atm
glass mortar
until tuesday probably
maybe it will survive tuesday, kinda doubt it tho
nerfed in pvp and pve nerfs hitting pvp
long bramble
At least Outlaw is meta in PvP atm
Bro this is the reason why clover got reworked btw
drifting burrow
like we atleast have to try to close it down
drifting burrow
atleast till reset
glass mortar
so double nerfed in pvp
drifting burrow
or they wont care at all
weary goblet
i swear we need to do it
What if we organize an event day, where no rogue is played
-# and then everyone realizes the game is much better without us and they delete us 
glass mortar
yea its massive
drifting burrow
or that
pliant orbit
Bro this is the reason why clover got reworked btw
They were also playing outlaw before this tho
drifting burrow
bro if u look alrdy our spec is played by 0.4% player base
and they gut it again
cus
claude = 
pliant orbit
I mean, you should probably look at how many of rogues play outlaw. Rogue is like the least played class in the game
west ridge
What if we organize an event day, where no rogue is played
-# and then everyone ...
so like...a normal day?
long bramble
They were also playing outlaw before this tho
Yeah but went out of control with clover
haughty moat
just ended my subcription
drifting burrow
yea exactly and its the least played spec rn
weary goblet
so like...a normal day?
-3% of the players 
pliant orbit
I think that Outlaw is also the least played rogue spec because a lot of people don't see it as a rogue spec
cinder relic
Idt modern design and balance has anything to do with rogue popularity
pliant orbit
I will still say I play both rogue specs and the other rogue class
cinder relic
It's been unpopular since wrath and cata
drifting burrow
like atleast if we close the chanel make forum on wow etc idunno there is no way we dont get attention
long bramble
I think that Outlaw is also the least played rogue spec because a lot of people ...
Bro it s cause it s an apm spec and it s not even tier s
west ridge
It's been unpopular since wrath and cata
we just dont have anything cool man
long bramble
Average player want to press 3 buttons
sudden veldt
revert outlaw ty
weary goblet
I think that Outlaw is also the least played rogue spec because a lot of people ...
i dont think its one single reason - its also the most bloated for what u need to track
long bramble
That s why when sub is good you see ppl playing it
frail veldt
yeah ngl people love easy fotm specs
glass mortar
eh i mean when sub is good u see more rogues playing it
u dont really see a larger portion of the playerbase playing it tho imo
long bramble
And when outlaw is good you still see ppl playing sub anyway
glass mortar
rogue itself is almost never fotm
craggy barn
like atleast if we close the chanel make forum on wow etc idunno there is no way...
maybe if we had another wowhead article like the bf post that fixed it for us wed get something hmm
frail veldt
no one gives a fuck about a "complex" high effort for the reward spec
drifting burrow
like do we have any moderator that can make a poll or something to close the chanel down until we get normal tuning?
glass mortar
low fantasy class, its had low player rep since vanilla
cinder relic
like do we have any moderator that can make a poll or something to close the cha...
It's not happening
glass mortar
hard to blame modern issues on that
frail veldt
its just not the kinda spec blizz cares about
sudden veldt
outlaw is fairly hard to play compared to other classes
cinder relic
Just shut up about closing the discord already
drifting burrow
cus i absolutley refuse to let this tuning go trough
weary goblet
rogue itself is almost never fotm
Zul 
pliant orbit
Bro it s cause it s an apm spec and it s not even tier s
I didn't want to play it because it wasn't really worth learning. If it wasn't for me full commiting to rogue in general, then I wouldn't have learned to play outlaw. But I still think outlaw doesn't fit the rogue archetype because gun spam is not stealthy or rogue esque imo
glass mortar
ok but that wasnt fotm
fluid meadow
At least Outlaw is meta in PvP atm
next step is nerfing kidney shot, our single target stun is too good for keys
drifting burrow
but @cinder relic what can we do then bro
cinder relic
We get asked literally every week to close the discord
random stirrup
Just shut up about closing the discord already
cinder relic
Just shut ip
glass mortar
that was have ur main raiders hop on their sub rogues in WORLD QUESTING BLUES and do more boss dps then the rest of ur raid
cinder relic
Please
glass mortar
then go back to their mains
cinder relic
Shut ip
frail veldt
like do we have any moderator that can make a poll or something to close the cha...
blizz could not give less of a fuck if our channel is closed
drifting burrow
like i got the rope rdy
glass mortar
but thats the closest we've ever been yea
frail veldt
you do nothing
vivid vessel
shut ip guys !
craggy barn
shut the wow ip down!
sudden veldt
We get asked literally every week to close the discord
i hope its doesnt happen, we dont negociate with terrorists
radiant wyvern
ip man
pure folio
@humble temple this?
random stirrup
like do we have any moderator that can make a poll or something to close the cha...
i dont understand why anyone thinks this would do literally anything at all
pliant orbit
Crazy that people got the rope ready because of a spec in a video game lol
long bramble
I didn't want to play it because it wasn't really worth learning. If it wasn't f...
I mean yeah I can understand it tbh I m the weird one that need apm for fake dopamine otherwise I can’t play
frail veldt
We get asked literally every week to close the discord
its crazy to me people still think the disc closing is why ret got buffed
inner meadow
random stirrup
same vibe as people making petitions
frail veldt
some delusional ass people
sudden veldt
Crazy that people got the rope ready because of a spec in a video game lol
y lol
closing discord is terrorism