@fathom bramble
#outlaw
vivid vessel
the dk chose to not move bc nice guy idk
he doesnt care
but i would have moved
and not hit anyone
random stirrup
ye
fathom bramble
yeah your dk is what I was doing to lose all my damage
except the boss is also gone insta
and it's what I was instructed to do so idk
boss is dead doesn't matter
vivid vessel
idk, we specifically had melee go left side for that reason
so he could walk behind boss
quiet ore
Like, you saw this in belo'ren tank strats early, too. By every metric, it's easier for the whole raid if the boss is near the edge of the arena and you drops soaks in melee range of the boss, then move the boss forward around the room - the soaks will even knock the raid forward to their next positions, but early strats all had tanks planting and range running around like chicken to go plant soaks in corners of the map
vivid vessel
set before is same shit
once again its on a nice guy that doesnt care to move
paladin kekw i guess
but could have moved
quiet ore
Like, you saw this in belo'ren tank strats early, too. By every metric, it's eas...
And this is only even viable with dk grips because of the adds
Like it's insane
There's like a mind virus that locks in bad tank strats early on in a tier that takes forever to unwind
fathom bramble
also I'm sick of positioning strats that force melee to get parried...
that aren't necessary
random stirrup
trickster is a blessing
fathom bramble
yeah they really should
quiet ore
also I'm sick of positioning strats that force melee to get parried...
Not a problem for us after tomorrow
vivid vessel
fucking dragon boss man
quiet ore
😎
vivid vessel
Not a problem for us after tomorrow
i opened adr > dispatch
and got parried
on first boss
trickster wouldnt even fix that !
fathom bramble
I like it how it refunds combo points as intended
but eats the supercharged one anyway
random stirrup
trickster wouldnt even fix that !
ye it would
vivid vessel
wdym
random stirrup
ar insta drop the smoke cloud and first auto procs fazed
random stirrup
saved!
random stirrup
go next pull
fathom bramble
put startattack on AR 🤔
vivid vessel
feels like there is a 50/50 chance its not fazed
quiet ore
dispatch would prolly fire before the auto
Press "auto attack" manually before dispatch, ez
vivid vessel
real
fathom bramble
do you still get SND if the dispatch is parried?
random stirrup
like i know a lot of melee had a bad time but our tanks did a good job for us and i genuinely thought it was fun skill expression to properly bait and do everything to get good uptime
if ur getting griefed by tanks its cringe obv
and some puddle drops are also real bad, like the one near end of p2 right when she jumps over
vivid vessel
do you still get SND if the dispatch is parried?
yes
fathom bramble
I wouldn't even say anyone is trolling/griefing it's just the strat/kill we were copying is made for ret/unholy
or ret/unholy were positioning in a certain way because they can
and so all melee on the fight for us (rogue, warr, DK) were told to play that way
very unlucky
at least the boss is free as long as you don't fuck up any mechanic
damage checkwise anyway
vivid vessel
like i know a lot of melee had a bad time but our tanks did a good job for us an...
i feel like tanks
are also just bad
at wow
noah fence
fathom bramble
our tanks were doing what they were told extremely well imo
vivid vessel
or like bad at letting their melees keep uptime
fathom bramble
I like our tanks
it's just bad luck on the strat/vod copy I think
but it also got us a timely kill so it's fine
vivid vessel
when we were progging p2 at start, everytime we drop an obelisk, tank would just move away from it, letting the melee behind
quiet ore
our tanks were doing what they were told extremely well imo
Buck passed to raid lead
mossy herald
and so all melee on the fight for us (rogue, warr, DK) were told to play that wa...
Doing tactyks one or
vivid vessel
i had to adapt to this by betting obelisk in front of tank path
so he cant get away
because he doesnt need to move away
in the end every melee adapted to do this
random stirrup
i feel like tanks
yeah our main tank is very very good and helps with strat making
vivid vessel
but i find it crazy that its not just tank that naturally would have tried to accomodate its meele player
random stirrup
we are spoiled
vivid vessel
but id k
fathom bramble
Doing tactyks one or
well it looks like we killed it before he uploaded this so probably not idk
quiet ore
but i find it crazy that its not just tank that naturally would have tried to ac...
Tanks don't do DPS mechs and are often only proximally aware of them
The best tanks are ones with DPS and healer alts that are aware of the whole fight
vivid vessel
your main job as a tank is to make your dps do more damage
but idk
maybe this is a m+ thing only
because i defniitly think tanks in raid dont care about that
fathom bramble
Buck passed to raid lead
probably melees fault for not considering that there may be a better way to do this and bringing it up between nights tbh
we just suffered gamed and killed it instead
quiet ore
we just suffered gamed and killed it instead
This gives me flashbacks of progging sludgefist where all the raid call outs were just telling rdps to follow the goddamn rdps raid marker while melee DPS happily stacked and grouped without active direction
frail veldt
your main job as a tank is to make your dps do more damage
dps mentality
hasty wolf
your main job as a tank is to make your dps do more damage
Do you pug?
My guild just chat and raid
And sometimes we lock in
vivid vessel
i dont pug
stuck sparrow
the best tanks are the dps mains who offered to spec tank one week on farm
and are now stuck in tank jail
the rest of the tier
quiet ore
Eh, if rogue had a tank spec that was sufficiently outlaw-y (cdr, procs) I'd probably play it
I've enjoyed bdk, dh, gdruid, and prot war alts late season in the past; having agency is neat
wintry solar
I'm really torn on rogue tank
I think I'd rather not but I wouldn't be too upset if it were to come to fruition
Idk, I think it's theme would be pretty important to me since that's what typically entices me to play a spec
It's why I play the same thing in every mmo
Anything death knight or pirate adjacent
quiet ore
I'd hope the tank rogue would be a "Grifter" or "con man" archetype, moreso than the relatively flavorless trickster. Less stealth, more bravado and bluff
wintry solar
Yeah I'd have to agree
wintry solar
I think what Outlaw is trying to be would make a good tank spec and Outlaw be the the dread pirate thing
lime lake
taunt is slapping them with a glove
wintry solar
Maybe I'm just nostalgic for older outlaws 
I hate when specs are a little of this, a little of that
quiet ore
taunt is slapping them with a glove
Or, instead of taunt, you get mass invis that exempts you to drop party/raid threat, flavored like "Frontman's Call - Shroud the rest of your party in shadows as you operate in the open to given them an opportunity to strike"
lucid sparrow
u guys seen
murder row boss
whos like
an outlaw/assa
gimmick
his killing spree is sick
wintry solar
His gangplank is nothing to do with a gangplank
near osprey
yo so if you dont start snd in the opener now for trickster is that a dps loss? or
cinder relic
his killing spree is sick
Its the exact same
cinder relic
I swear it was just a frontal
lucid sparrow
nope he is giga shpinning
wintry solar
Ours doesn't look like a frontal
lucid sparrow
i want that spree he has
quiet ore
i want that spree he has
Isn't it just bladestorm in rogue colors
ashen void
-_- bro why is it always the fotm reroller dps in mid keys who are just
there for participation award
wintry solar
Stinky?
ashen void
it is like some ppl are in the uncanny valley of awareness where
they know enough to know what is fotm to reroll to
but are stupid enough to not even know the 3 button presses needed to make the class good
fathom bramble
they just get invited because "oh aug is good lets invite them" and get carried over and over
lime lake
fathom bramble
people see a good class with a decent score and invite them, but it should actually be done the other way around
people on good classes are getting carried(partially) by their class
if someone on an absolute dog class has decent score then you know they are good
dawn bear
Aug seems fun, can't get past having to be a lizard tho
wintry solar
There are some things I don't invite no matter how good they are
dawn bear
mages
wintry solar
Wdym
keen belfry
its longer gcd yes
wintry solar
It's GCD isn't reduced by adr if that's what you mean
vivid vessel
it is reduced by adr
gaunt phoenix
ye it is
vivid vessel
its just a logner gcd
gaunt phoenix
1.2s to 1.0s
wintry solar
Oh that explains it
keen belfry
mhm
wintry solar
Idk if I can tell out of adr because everything is so slow in contrast already
olive bramble
legit most exciting thing about trickster
agreed
fickle stream
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
silk dirge
!prekey
ornate heathBOT
- Use
Adrenaline Rush to activate 
Loaded Dice. - As Trickster, use
KS to activate 
Disorienting Strikes. - Do NOT use
RTB before the key, you will lose it. - Use
SND during the bubble once the key starts.
near osprey
yo so how much of a dps loss is it not using snd on pre pull?
daring yoke
do we know actual hitbox for KS?
fossil lintel
legit most exciting thing about trickster
that and the ability to obstruct the vision of everyone in the group every 40 seconds =D
I'm going to kill so many people with ground effects
gaunt phoenix
yo so how much of a dps loss is it not using snd on pre pull?
like 0.8% over 5 minutes
3% over 1 minute
buoyant stratus
How can 3% over 1 minute be divided by 5 minutes to. 8% :^)
(Yes this is a shitpost)
wintry solar
Remember when you could shitpost and not have to put a disclaimer? Those were the days 
buoyant stratus
Sry im self concious and dont want to look dumb (impossible)
fossil lintel
The energy situation on 2 target cleave is so annoying
I feel like I eventually just run out 2 min into the fight
placid ocean
Imagine if blade flurry had a choice node for high aoe and low aoe
wintry solar
Can you imagine a better idea?
hollow bloom
Just make blade flurry a toggle 
fossil lintel
Or just let deft not cost more energy like it had always been
river wing
Imagine if blade flurry had a choice node for high aoe and low aoe
or just, you know
bake in the bloody cleave focus mechanic
craggy barn
pugging m chim this late in the week is somethin i tell ya
dim parrot
Deft energy cost is defs a problem
craggy barn
well i got the kill through a pug after 1.5 hours i guess
prayge it was all worth it in the end
i also got put in the 0 parse group sadge
river wing
Deft energy cost is defs a problem
legit
"oh you need this to do AoE properly? ok we'll tax you a talent point, we do this to everyone, but you see, you're a special case and so we'll also add an energy cost modifier, how does that sound? what modifier, you ask? how about +200%, huh? special offer, can't go lower than that"
hollow bloom
Make it a finisher that channels damage to multiple targets.
river wing
Make it a finisher that channels damage to multiple targets.
oh wait...
hollow bloom
craggy barn
finisher that just increases duration per cp
make deft give cp on blade rush when u have bf active
wintry solar
What?
river wing
finisher that just increases duration per cp
make deft give cp on blade rush whe...
fucking snd-ass
craggy barn
🙂
wintry solar
I get it now
river wing
idk
just make deft baseline
make PC baseline
make BF a talent in the same place as Deft, it's not like it's playable/worthwhile without its talents
cinder relic
I will remind people that when PC existed, people spent literally the entire expansion of TWW saying it needs to be removed to "better balance the spec in raid vs M+"
But I always did like it, and do miss it
craggy barn
it gave us something at low target cleave
was nice
minor niche to have
since we have none
river wing
as opposed to none atm
river wing
we get a boat
is that like a poor man's mage?
craggy barn
unlike other mages, we'd get to cosplay as jaina with our boat
wintry solar
I will remind people that when PC existed, people spent literally the entire exp...
I remember
It's like people have no foresight
Idr if I advocated for that but it doesn't sound like me
warped spruce
in keys, is Outlaw closely behind sub and assassination? or is there quite the disparity ?
frail veldt
prob ahead of sub
assa idk I think assa has a lot of potential but not that played right now
craggy barn
with aug being meta, assa has better potential than law
frail veldt
yeah probably
craggy barn
assa can push millions in aoe pulls with aug like other classes
frail veldt
outlaw will be playable
after tomorrow
I mean its not awful rn
its just far from meta
craggy barn
in augless groups, outlaw does just fine
frail veldt
yeah
surreal scroll
assa can push millions in aoe pulls with aug like other classes
For AoE you bring lock and dk anyways. Sub has a better burst but tanks during downtime (very small downtime though)
craggy barn
sin has better sustain for higher keys
frail veldt
sub sucks compared to assa ngl
surreal scroll
Assa idk
craggy barn
sin has way more potential in high keys than sub just bc dot spec ramp nonsense
surreal scroll
sub sucks compared to assa ngl
craggy barn
For AoE you bring lock and dk anyways. Sub has a better burst but tanks during d...
people are doing demo + sin + aug or dev + dk + aug or dev demo aug
i run dk aug sin
in my groups
frail veldt
hows your boss damage?
craggy barn
good
hasty warren
Hi pirates
surreal scroll
i run dk aug sin
I love when people give their disabled friends a shot. Very based and frenpilled
frail veldt
hi elf
surreal scroll
u're quick lol
We're in middle of committing hate crimes rn
craggy barn
idk whats a good bos dam key to look at
frail veldt
how many bosses are actually raw st this season
craggy barn
bird boss if u cant snap shit to it but that has an amp
frail veldt
yeah seems theres few that are just plain ST no spawns no amp
craggy barn
last boss windurnner?
craggy barn
weird nonsense during tha boss so idk
2nd boss skyreach but u can technically pull mobs into it if u pull the room right
shrug
frail veldt
augs so crazy rn haha
craggy barn
17 SR
last boss terrace 16
idk with the comps im running sub just doesnt feel worth running
and with large aoe pulls bc of dk, outlaw feels like its slowing the key down
i could probably law idk
frail veldt
nah yeah with aug it doesnt seem worth
you could make it work but its for sure not ideal
maybe on tuesday with cloud cover haha
the prep pulls might actually be a decent bit of burst aoe idk
still we arent uncapped
so
eh
wintry solar
It's lovely weather for a sleigh ride together with youuuu
craggy barn
the only key where i outlaw with this aug is pit
actually nvm i havent outlawed pit with the aug yet
but yea i play law when we arent running aug keys which is only sometimes
deep pilot
How much downtime does this spec have now?
tulip quarry
Trickster would be insane, if it were based on Blade Rush and not on KS :/
wintry solar
Not really because then you have people who have 0 awareness calling for the charge to be removed
Like now actually
tulip quarry
XD
near pulsar
The buff "Whirl of Blades" which increases damage done by 5% is from our 4-set right? I'm noticing in the open world I seem to be getting the buff from pressing Blade Flurry. Is this something already known?
frail veldt
How much downtime does this spec have now?
None really
muted crest
Trickster still has energy issues?
river wing
Not awful but worse than fatebound
that sounds pretty awful
every SS delayed for 0.5 seconds due to lack of energy is like a kick in the shin
radiant dock
what do you mean i love pressing SS on 5 combo points just to hit a dispatch
warped spruce
I'm swapping to outlaw tonight. should i hold up on reading guides? since tomorrow things might change? rotation wise?
cinder relic
Nah read now
Faq and wowhead are updated
even if its slightly off, ull learn the bulk of it
warped spruce
ok appreciate it
foggy needle
Nah read now
w guy
my top 5 favorite rogue
tawdry mason
one of the rogues of all time 
unkempt dew
Does the patch already went live for NA servers?
hollow bloom
Not yet, still six hours until reset.
unkempt dew
Sadge
formal knot
static crescent
hmm, il assume fartcloud will mean our damage will be a bit more bursty
"bursting" during adr
Im not sure if it will be more or less fun if your not doing much outside of adr but enter godmode during adr
muted crest
In big bl pulls we might performe?
hasty warren
tropic zephyr
why hat
jolly geyser
valid hound
Hey guys, so we're really getting 13% dps increase with 12.0.5?
river wing
yes
jolly geyser
in sims
valid hound
damn that's dope
finally
but we're switching to trickster, and need to start using killing spree, right?
wintry solar
The value is actually in pvp where Outlaw is good
valid hound
The value is actually in pvp where Outlaw is good
you mean this change doesnt apply to pve?
this dps boost
wintry solar
It does, I'm saying outlaw got a pvp specific buff back when Outlaw had that aura buff in pve
So it had 2 aura buffs if you pvp
Idr how much though
valid hound
got it
love that we're getting a buff man
just need to adjust to a new talent build
lavish wagon
13% seems insanely strong 😮
lavish wagon
huge nerf coming soon would not surprise me
jolly geyser
I have heard enough, 10% nerf to BF
lavish wagon
but switching trickster makes a few change, it's good
valid hound
Yeah, I honestly don't like the Killing Spree as a spell, it feels a bit random
wintry solar
I have heard enough, 10% nerf to BF
normal quail
I’ll take any buff at this point.
lavish wagon
it's a 2 second break from clicking button
slim hare
jolly geyser
Lights Potential
normal quail
Im not zac but light’s potential
wintry solar
Le Lights Le Potential
lavish wagon
the other ones that drop silence aoe on the floor if you like to add some mechs, but needs constant moving else u got 1 gcd off and the benefits are gg
normal quail
the other ones that drop silence aoe on the floor if you like to add some mechs,...
Id recommend not taking these
Lmao
With fart cloud
Gg no buff
jolly geyser
thats no ordinary fart cloud
lavish wagon
ye with cloud your area of play is slightly shorter 😄
but if u like to find that 1 pixel with no zones in the cloud it's greater 😄
normal quail
I tried the void pot early weeks but considering we do significantly less dmg with the slightest bit of down time
I opted out of that shit very fast
lavish wagon
ye the benefits are too weak to try it
mighty pivot
sorry guys, only zac knows what potion to use
normal quail
ye the benefits are too weak to try it
Real gaming is tier 2 light’s potential and bankrupt urself
lavish wagon
if u want the 100 maybe, for 99 tier 1 is enough
valid hound
U use tier 1 to test the group and see what's happening, and after 5-6 pulls, if worth it, start using tier 2 :D
normal quail
if u want the 100 maybe, for 99 tier 1 is enough
I’ve been chasing 100s so I’m bankrupt
lavish wagon
unlucky
desert tendon
Le Lights Le Potential
...poop...
torpid fiber
saw someone on reddit earlier saying outlaw is good bc Zac has the top key on rio 
normal quail
saw someone on reddit earlier saying outlaw is good bc Zac has the top key on ri...
Clowns
lavish wagon
stats are pretty against this statement
torpid fiber
Oh yeah
wintry solar
...poop...
Le poop?
lavish wagon
outlaw with title currently is maybe the bottom 3 spec ?
torpid fiber
But it's really funny
lavish wagon
saw someone on reddit earlier saying outlaw is good bc Zac has the top key on ri...
but really glad to see one outlaw above all the top meta-addicts (or metaslaves)
tropic zephyr
tbf it's cool to see lots of teams with different flavors like zac, casual and wox teams
tropic zephyr
esp wox teams only chads
desert tendon
Caca in french if you want
lavish wagon
funniest word in french language
desert tendon
karmic gust
macaque close contender imo
grizzled marsh
Whats you guys take after reset? You guys Think outlaw Will beat the other 2 specs on l’ura mythic?
grim holly
Do you guys play around supercharger or just use them passive?🤔
elfin tusk
When at 5 palmed with BTE Adren coiming up, is it work waiting for 6 to get the guaranteed recast for supercharger? Or it not worth the like 1-3 sec of wasted cd time
unkempt dew
<:Zerossthinking:1100799833150861372>
I made a small change
valid hound
hey guys, do u think its smart to create off-hand with sparks now that we can upgrade the weap to 298?
frank hamlet
!oh
ornate heathBOT
A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of 
Zero In, and also slightly more 
Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.
It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use 
Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.
karmic gust
!ui
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc:- Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent
upper hawk
hey guys, do u think its smart to create off-hand with sparks now that we can up...
crafted is upgraded to 295. mythic dropped weapon can be upgraded to 298
valid hound
crafted is upgraded to 295. mythic dropped weapon can be upgraded to 298
how do u get a mythic drop dagger as an outlaw? only from raids or? I guess not possible from GV if u open it as an outlaw?
upper hawk
once you have a good mainhand weapon, just change your loot spec to not outlaw
valid hound
i have a crafted mainhand and upgraded, but the issue is that i need other items from the GV also :/
like a better trinket or smth like that
upper hawk
trinkets are all shared. the only differnce in loot specs is whether you get daggers or main hand
so if you halready have mainhand and you couldnt' get a better one from whatever loot source your doing, vault, or key or whatever, then just have your loot spec as assassination
livid pewter
1 more night till Xmas 
valid hound
trinkets are all shared. the only differnce in loot specs is whether you get dag...
yeah, that actually quite makes sense, so i dont need outlaw spec in GV apart form getting a better mainhand (which I can't atm since I don't have mythic raids filled)
Thanks :)
normal quail
yeah, that actually quite makes sense, so i dont need outlaw spec in GV apart fo...
You can
Myth track MH from m+ is good
Haste vers one i think
Cant remember its name
valid hound
Myth track MH from m+ is good
is better than crafted and upgraded to max?
valid hound
yeah ill need to check names of these MH and sim them all against crafted one
normal quail
I simmed the other day with my 285 and it was like 1% upg
agile orchid
wow we didn't get hotfix nerfed yet 
upper hawk
there's only one mh in m+ that doesn't have mastery, so pretty low odds in vault if you really need a dagger. but you can also target m+ items starting with this reset with the voidcores
normal quail
Depends how far ur guild is in mythic prog, but I would opt for sub and try get the fist weapon from saladhar @valid hound
Then the pit dagger in vault
Then crafted ring boots for embellishment
upper hawk
depends on your gear i think . like if you had full mythic is crafted offhand with embellishment better than crafted some armor piece with embellishment? if you had to pick which gets the 3 ilvl drop? i think weapon embellish is stronger than the armor one?
it would all be a fraction of a percent from each other regardless
normal quail
Idk like i took my embellishment off my wep and it sims literally like 0.03% better
So yeh rly makes no diff
livid pewter
wow we didn't get hotfix nerfed yet <:poggers:652288776021999626>
yet
agile orchid
yet <:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
we might actually enjoy trickster for a day or two
upper hawk
why do you think maintenance is 8 hours today. enough time to realize the horrible mistake they've made and nerf the talent
tulip quarry
i'm not sure this is a mistake
agile orchid
I doubt 15% DR and crit damage increase is intended
tulip quarry
And even if fixed to 2 application top, that should be enough to pull Trickster above of Fatebound
normal quail
We got buffed to be equal with other classes 🤷♂️
tulip quarry
And still be a buff
normal quail
We won’t be nerfed
normal quail
We won’t be nerfed
Don’t quote me
lavish wagon
screenshot taken
agile orchid
"bladeflurry now cleaves for 20% of damage done" incoming
normal quail
That would be gg
jolly geyser
"bladeflurry removed from the game"
normal quail
Entire reason outlaw has been able to be seen on meters is ad cleave. Actual gg
lavish wagon
"outlaw is not a support spec"
valid hound
Depends how far ur guild is in mythic prog, but I would opt for sub and try get ...
not really in a guild that's making a huge mythic prog, im more of a new (casual) player, so i think in my case it'd be better to try to get some myth OH from the vault
and appreciate your guidance :)
agile orchid
apparently I was turbo lucky last vault and got the dagger from pit of saron
valid hound
apparently I was turbo lucky last vault and got the dagger from pit of saron
that's dope
now that i know this "trick", hopefully I get it tomorrow
:D
agile orchid
well you can also try getting it with the new bonus rolls system
I will probably try to get a mythic puzzlebox for assa
valid hound
haha i got mythic puzzlebox in my GV but i don't play assa/sub
agile orchid
I'm hoping for a nice outlaw weapon in vault tomorrow
valid hound
from m+ or raid?
agile orchid
m+, I didn't mythic raid this season
tacit totem
are people generally switching to trickster?
agile orchid
I basically ragequit once we got to heroic alleria
valid hound
are people generally switching to trickster?
i saw it everywhere that in 12 0 5 it's going to be a lot btter
lavish wagon
are people generally switching to trickster?
13% makes it an unquestionnable choice
normal quail
are people generally switching to trickster?
Ofc, big buff
agile orchid
yeah trickster is straight up superior
normal quail
Plus trickster is more fun
agile orchid
I hope the gameplay is not too clunky
normal quail
Minus KS
tacit totem
i just started pumping and now gotta relearn everything
valid hound
are we going to cast killing spree?
agile orchid
yes
valid hound
its for aoe or for ST?
agile orchid
both
valid hound
kk
agile orchid
if I understood correctly, you cast it once bte is on cooldown
valid hound
idk i dont like that spell particularly, feels a bit "random", but im new to rogue so probably gotta figure it out
crude flower
“You will cast killing spree and you will like it”
-blizzard, probably
agile orchid
I am legit missing the old KS
agile orchid
sure, it might kill you sometimes if you were not paying attention
but it was doing good damage
and it was staggering damage
valid hound
so even more buttons to press now
lavish wagon
ye, could tank enrage for 3sec more
valid hound
cloud thing, killing spree
agile orchid
the cloud appears when you press adrenaline rush
valid hound
aha, good then, so 1 more button
agile orchid
only KS is an additional button
I wish they would replace KS in trickster with blade rush
and just rework KS to be a big aoe finisher
normal quail
Playing on ptr and following solo’s notes
Literally press KS if nothing else is up
And cancel before energy overcap
Then in packs just cancel that shit straight away just to get ur coup de grace and pump
valid hound
thats why i dont like ks, it attacks random shit
agile orchid
sure but it still cleaves
lavish wagon
ye but u prefer 100% dmg on prio than 33%
valid hound
but on a ST its like, what am i hitting
normal quail
Same goes
Just hit KS until you about to hit full energy
But only when bte and blade rush is down
And dont use prep for KS ofc just use it as normal
valid hound
so they gave us a spell that we will use on 0 cb just to get cb, cancel it, and use it on another spell xD
agile orchid
that's so sad
normal quail
Pretty much
agile orchid
they put so much work into the animation
normal quail
If you look in pinned
agile orchid
just to make it a dogshit spell
normal quail
There’s good notes on how to use it
valid hound
i might i think they'll see what's happening and probably change ks
agile orchid
I think it's just a half-assed job done
legit all they have to do is make it do 100% aoe damage
and it's a decent ability
but no
normal quail
Or just make it attack prio only
agile orchid
typical blizzard stubborness
normal quail
Blade flurry then cleaves
agile orchid
Or just make it attack prio only
it doesn't make sense theme wise
normal quail
This would make it actual good ability
normal quail
it doesn't make sense theme wise
Yeh agreed but it doesn’t do it xd
agile orchid
it should be like Reaper's ult in overwatch
normal quail
True
agile orchid
unlucky
maybe outlaw will get some changes in 12.1
in Murder Row there is an outlaw rogue boss
surely blizzard will remember outlaw is a real spec
normal quail
I just want more rolls, so much potential instead of 4. Where if you roll 1/2 the spec feels bad.
agile orchid
season 3 dragonflight was such a banger for outlaw
the tier set guaranteed you 3 buffs
normal quail
Yeh it was a vibe fr
lavish wagon
kidna impossible to have 0 downtime now ye
mayb if u keep ks for when u have no energy
crude flower
sure, it might kill you sometimes if you were not paying attention
Or just playing dawnbreaker
Or fighting a boss like sprocket monger
agile orchid
Or just playing dawnbreaker
if you played outlaw on sprocket you deserved to get kicked from the raid
actual terrorist behaviour
agile orchid
rogue has 3 specs, you should learn them all anyway
lavish wagon
dagger in mainhand ? tragedy
crude flower
But only one is outlaw
frozen quest
m33kauras goated finally have poison weakaura again
frozen quest
if u send me the weakaura i can check
normal quail
m33kauras goated finally have poison weakaura again
I was using it for a while but had to manually update? You gotta do this too?
frozen quest
i manually update it - tried importing into wowup but didnt work
frozen quest
does m33kauras work corectly with implacable?
can send me dm or just reply to this post checking in 30 min
agile orchid
can send me dm or just reply to this post checking in 30 min
don't worry about it
I mostly asked in case you already tested it
near rock
if you played outlaw on sprocket you deserved to get kicked from the raid
U played fatebound on sprocket
timid portal
imagine old ks on dragons
agile orchid
U played fatebound on sprocket
no, I simply played assa on that boss 
timid portal
with the breath
agile orchid
I only played outlaw on the boss where you had to roll around, I forgot the name
stix was it?
timid portal
near rock
you didnt play outlaw on sprocket because of ks
ye bro u just played fatebound
It was statically still the best on prog
stix, sprocket, oab, all outlaw fights
desert tendon
idk, on prog i was benched on stix, and all the other bosses were sub. Specially oab because the burst on bombs was needed iirc
but that was so long ago i dont remember well, i only remember that i was stuck to sub but on mugz
gaunt phoenix
Today the smoke war begins
near rock
I am going to be thanos in raid tonight
open coyote
Is the problem with killing spree is it does low damage, or that the attacks are random? or both?
static crescent
Hotfix nerf inc before eu goes live
wintry solar
Is the problem with killing spree is it does low damage, or that the attacks are...
Both
still matrix
Hotfix nerf inc before eu goes live
fi cry
wintry solar
Today the smoke war begins
Willie Nelson and Snoop Dogg been at it for ages
open coyote
Both
so it basically just barely does enough damage for it to be in the trickster rotation?
wintry solar
It's required for the tree to function
timid portal
it gives 2 free ub with no cd
frozen quest
I mostly asked in case you already tested it
ok i cant test it cause i dont have the weakaura for it
pearl topaz
Running keys with outlaw now: https://youtu.be/_v39JQZ_tyw
unkempt dew
Are we meta yet?
wintry solar
We will be in a couple hours
unkempt dew
Nice!
hasty warren
omg popo
wintry solar
Omg Elfinor
hasty warren
how u're doing cowboy ?
silent grail
Is there anywhere I can find an updated simc string of a theory crafted simc string that aligns with the 12.0.5 changes?
hasty warren
How are you cowboy?
still looking for a job, start going crazy
river wing
Is the problem with killing spree is it does low damage, or that the attacks are...
general design
it's a channel that syncs (CD-wise) with AR but conflicts with AR usage
it strikes random targets with no prio damage
it somehow dares to do shit damage despite both of these factors
normal quail
Surely the strat is just cancel instant so we get free ub. (Unless you need energy) then use it as placeholder.
Because restless blades is basically doing nothing if you let it go full duration
gaunt phoenix
you cancel at max energy but otherwise should let it go, its not that bad
normal quail
Okay goat
But does that apply in aoe too?
Or is it more worth to cancel @gaunt phoenix
gaunt phoenix
its the same
timid portal
pretty much the moment you hit 7 cp you just use bte/dispatch
timid portal
so basically the only purpose of ks is to get combo points
purpose of ks is getting 2 unseen blades for free
and then depending on situation you let it channel fully if energy low
valid hound
oh, thats cool, i havent played trickster so didnt know about that one
valid hound
i just started playing rogue, so i missed that
what is the talent that is about ks gaining energy?
normal quail
He just means ks can be useful as a placeholder when ur energy starved
valid hound
aha, when nothing else to go for, got it
normal quail
So if ks if up and nothing else available, it would be worth to sit its full duration to get energy back
But yeh the main benefit of KS is the unseen blade procs for coup
valid hound
outlaw seems like it'll be more complicated to play in 12 0 5
ks, tracking coup de grace, cloud
cinder abyss
So wheres the extra talent points coming from for ace 1/2 to 2/2 and prep for trickster. What are we dropping
normal quail
ks, tracking coup de grace, cloud
You don’t rly track coup now
Just try keep a prio target
still matrix
i see zorthas is playing outlaw atm aha
normal quail
And it plays itself
valid hound
yeah when i tried trickster once a couple of times i just canceled the "channel" of it
so gotta get that out of the habit lol
inland acorn
yeah when i tried trickster once a couple of times i just canceled the "channel"...
We do cancel it
valid hound
We do cancel it
so you cast coup de grace, and u dont wait it to "channel fully"?
still matrix
anyone know fastest way to level atm, is there some delve spam at all or something?
inland acorn
so you cast coup de grace, and u dont wait it to "channel fully"?
coup is not channel, Killing spree is, and we cancel it as per pin:
You can cancel KS with a builder/finisher (whatever is next in priority) when you have excess energy. So in most openers, you will KS during the first AR and then cancel it as you approach full energy. It is not a big deal to cancel KS, it's just common that people don't like the channel and want to cancel it.
static crescent
so what is gonna be the most simple way to make a timer for this fartcloud when u use adr
is it really a WA or anyone planning to make a simple seperate one
valid hound
alright, im mistaken then. i know that when u coup de grace, it kind of hits a target like 2-3 times, and that's what i cancelled. but i havent played it for a while so probably im wrong on this
inland acorn
start timer on your phone everytime you press ADR 
inland acorn
alright, im mistaken then. i know that when u coup de grace, it kind of hits a t...
coup is
static crescent
not sure if I can do one with Arcui, didnt feel like it when checking yesterday
proven ocean
inland acorn
Killing spree is a channel, that hits random targets in front of you
valid hound
👍
tropic zephyr
and it's 1.2s gcd (ty blizzard)
I forgot about that
why is trickster so cursed through and through
inland acorn
why is rogue*
tropic zephyr
at least we don't have prio hell like tww s3
tropic zephyr
yea
inland acorn
tropic zephyr
it was kind of satisfying to double coup into double vanish window with your 10 FF stacks
but
inland acorn
I’m just waiting for prep to be off GCD
ye dw
we're also waiting for coup to not be 1.2s gcd
since TWW
tropic zephyr
the prio between UB stacks, KS, coup, vanish etc...
normal quail
I got used to that
tropic zephyr
I hated it so much
tropic zephyr
yeah idk why this needed to be a gcd
balmy topaz
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tropic zephyr
things feels so random
like the cloud thing randomly applying Fazed x3
feels like a mistake rofl
tropic zephyr
or not intended to be a 13% buff anyway
hearty socket
!ui
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
- ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
- WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
- MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
- Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc: - Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
- WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
- Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent
tropic zephyr
just intended to make a talent playbale
normal quail
Might be annoying at first but phased on all targets is huge
tropic zephyr
true
still matrix
I want to see the cloud on a stream
gaunt phoenix
professional victims
still matrix
Victim Mentality
tropic zephyr
i'm actually hyped to fart all over my mates on EU reset
and purposefully make clouds on aoes
inland acorn
or not intended to be a 13% buff anyway
I just don't think, they checked the math on that one lmao
tropic zephyr
yeah it's obvious that they didn't
tropic zephyr
100% they were salty they made a "cool" visual that was never used and could not be used
so they made it that you use it but I don't think they realized how much of a buff it is
inland acorn
Do other people see the cloud ?
inland acorn
Y i want to gas my party
static crescent
there was a picture here, at silvermoon dummies other players atleast saw it without any visual fading
inland acorn
tropic zephyr
oh yeah
static crescent
But might be faded in instances
inland acorn
static crescent
ye
still matrix
there is going to be a lot of fart
tropic zephyr
i actually find it very funny to grief this way and see people die
i think WS is a good key to grief melee
static crescent
jokes on you, nobody plays melee so they arent even close
formal knot
im going to give our healers aneurysms by fartclouding on crown p1, so melees cant see the droplet puddles
tropic zephyr
cause you don't have to hav eyes on the ground perma so people will jsut forget and die
river wing
idk
I don't think they'll nerf us
and if they do, it will be a targeted attack saying "we'd rather you not play Outlaw" rather than fixing anything, because cloud isn't enough to make us top tier anyway
static crescent
ur just drowning in ur own farts, being super proud of ur 13% buff while devourer is doing 1,1mil to the pack, wondering why is there a smell of shit
harsh cape
Will the DR from Smoke on trickster stack?
river wing
ye
river wing
im going to give our healers aneurysms by fartclouding on crown p1, so melees ca...
joke's on you
one of my raid DHs can't see them anyway
lad had like 13% uptime on the debuff across multiple wipes
valid hound
i just hope they make more use of ks instead of unseen blades / combot points gain
just because of gameplay
i feel like they downgraded the gameplay with this, like using a spell that's supposed to dps just to gain something
final pagoda
Anyone has a WA that plays a fart sound when using cloud?
river wing
I mean in TWW S3 KS slapped
yeah but it did like twice the damage
it was legitimately a big bang button
that sort of compensated for all the downsides
tropic zephyr
nah it's such a trash spell rofl
idk how that made it in
the visual is cool and that's it
even then I think we still cancelled it once your reached 7CP
so even though it slapped, you still cancelled it rofl
river wing
I mean
it was clearly the first draft of "we need to change old KS because it's cancerous to play in M+ and sometimes raid, how do we do it better"
and just like so many other first drafts
it never went past that
final pagoda
I low-key prefer the old suicide KS
tropic zephyr
nah
river wing
nah
final pagoda
It was poggers during SL S1
tropic zephyr
i still prefer bad designed KS over I can't play my spec KS
final pagoda
100% crit legendary and KS was popping
tropic zephyr
"I need to hold cos" KS
final pagoda
You just had to pray during it
tropic zephyr
"i got tp'd under the map" ks
final pagoda
It was the last time I remember having some cds as outlaw that would destroy the meters
tropic zephyr
tho it's true that damage wise you really felt it, it was pretty satsifying on that side I agree
final pagoda
How bad are tricksters builds without KS in .5?
tropic zephyr
I think it's like -2%
river wing
well you waste a whole hero point
and gain a single tree point that's not really going anywhere super useful
tropic zephyr
don't quote me but I think I saw a sim solo shared that showed no KS build was not that far behind
polar niche
.help
jolly geyser
karmic gust
https://www.wowhead.com/news/demonology-warlocks-are-making-their-presence-known-midnight-season-1-mythic-381301 we are less than a fraction of the playerbase
timid portal
the bad part of trickster is that you build to 6/7 cps cant end on 5
so you overcap so much
with how our builders generate right now
timid portal
thats also true
timid portal
getting used to press opp on 5 cp
timid portal
it will be obscured by smoke cloud
you will be dead from the shit on the ground u dont see 😄
final pagoda
Outlaw players are environmentally friendly
Hate to waste resources
Did someone test how hard is to see shit on the ground during fartcloud?
placid ocean
If you're at 5 cp, do you ps or ss?
proven ocean
I made a small change
Original is better
jagged plover
There's no way Blizzard is that clueless to let other see that shit
it is visible to everyone
fair topaz
will raidbots be updated today?
gaunt phoenix
Yes
near rock
will thottbot be updated today?
marsh raft
is there any reason to not use a dagger as an OH weapon? I only play outlaw sometimes and just use one of my daggers as an OH since I only have 1 decent non-dagger weapon
misty bridge
Cloud cover was visible to others before today, i used it in pvp from time to time to bait trinkets. Idk if blizz changed it with the update
frozen quest
does anyone use the pistol shot wa from zac? do i understand it right it makes shotgun sound if i have pistol shot proc and can use it to get full cps?
or how do i play around it
unkempt dew
Original is better
Oké sorry 
final pagoda
does anyone use the pistol shot wa from zac? do i understand it right it makes s...
U get a shotgun sound when opp procs
light kernel
Is 285 oh crafted dagger vetter than raid one vers/mastery
289
With emblemishment
fair topaz
Yes
do you know if it will also support item upgrades to 298 today? not sure if i should pick a crit/vers weapon from my last vault. sim says it's a 0.6% upgrade but not sure if something changes or if i should just pick set legs (also .6%) and stick to the crafted weapon with all the changes
dim parrot
Mythic mainhand is better than crafted
mighty pivot
and you can't upgrade immediately anyway. Do we know how many weeks it takes to help decimus craft his nuthammer?
quiet ore
and you can't upgrade immediately anyway. Do we know how many weeks it takes to ...
We'll find out in a few hours I imagine
mighty pivot
godspeed NA beta testers 
quiet ore
Y'all ready to grind assaults for cosmetics?
fair topaz
and you can't upgrade immediately anyway. Do we know how many weeks it takes to ...
oh i had no idea. thought it would be this reset aswell. thanks for clarifying!
mighty pivot
also an upgraded mythic weapon is higher ilvl than an upgraded crafted one. If the weapon is better already then it will be after upgrading too
placid ocean
Y'all ready to grind assaults for cosmetics?
I've been saving up marl and now I finally have something to spend it on
Cosmetics are the real WoW endgame
valid hound
Mythic mainhand is better than crafted
even if it's from m+ GV?
valid hound
you can get a better MH from m+ GV than the created one? just asking
hollow temple
Cloud cover was visible to others before today, i used it in pvp from time to ti...
Was still visible on PTR
dim parrot
Yes
river wing
you can get a better MH from m+ GV than the created one? just asking
yeah
+4 ilvls over crafted
valid hound
okay
upper hawk
It will be 3 over after the ascendant thing
civic zephyr
yeah crafted+asc will be 295, myth+ascended will be 298
Do we get to ascend infinite times or like 1 per week
river wing
idk
upper hawk
They are random drops from like raid bosses and m+. But I don’t think anyone knows the rate or if there’s a cap
civic zephyr
Okay well if blizzard has a way to screw it up with a cap they will
upper hawk
It’s only weapons and trinkets anyway. You don’t need that many
civic zephyr
The worst feeling is upgrading on Tuesday morning only to get the drop you really want in mythic raid and unable to do it.
Otherwise for us you wait until Thursday to upgrade at midnight my time so basically Friday and lost 1/2 a week + 1 whole road week on the upgrade.
upper hawk
I would guess at least one a week
civic zephyr
We will just have to wait and see I guess
upper hawk
Prob similar to the catalyst charge drops
civic zephyr
It shouldn’t be we did a 6 week quest line for it, it should be permanent imo
upper hawk
I don’t know what you mean. I meant similar to the rate you get random catalyst charge drops after 4 piece
civic zephyr
We had to do a multi week quest to unlock the weapon upgrades. Something with that much time commitment shouldn’t have a Cap with it, it should be like the DK runeforger we should be able to just use it
upper hawk
That quest was just to exist. They just added that to give the item level increase some sort of in game explanation
potent ore
will this buff make outlaw good in the raid?
civic zephyr
Cool that doesn’t need to take 6 weeks bc we will have 1 more on reset
upper hawk
They’ve never made the turbo boost just instant all gear upgrades
civic zephyr
Turbo boost is when you can just buy the gear you want
We can’t just buy our gear yet we can’t say ah yes I finally get my mythic gaze yay!! This isn’t that it’s a simple weapon upgrade
And trinket I guess.
civic zephyr
Gamba if it’s like it was in BFA idk how that works
But that has nothing to do with the weapon upgrades at the 6 week quest line location I am talking about
haughty moat
you will be able to upgrade your gear and you will get myth items, its turbo boost, just a little different like always
final pagoda
going from crit flask to haste flask is a 0.9% dps gain in aoe for 12.0.5
and I had 22.5% haste
craggy quiver
Do we start with only two bonus rolls ? Lol
glass mortar
2 bonus rolls which is 1 for raid bosses or 2 for dungeons
fickle relic
trickster buff isn't live already, is it?
quiet ore
trickster buff isn't live already, is it?
Downtime should have just started
fickle relic
not in eu, so i guess it isn't live here yet
glass mortar
well no you guys havent had reset yet
would be kinda hard for it to be live
its just a normal patch not a fancy global release
static crescent
Global release of fartcloud
fickle relic
i wanted to check wowhead for raid talent build, but it already got updated, so i thought it's live. Is this build okay?
stoic crown
blizzard releaseing our "smoke" update on 4/21 instead of 4/20. Truly they hate rogues
dusty blaze
What time will raidbots update?
final pagoda
i wanted to check wowhead for raid talent build, but it already got updated, so ...
this build is without KS, so probably not updated
to the latest recommendation
gaunt phoenix
after maintenance. it pulls data from the game client
fickle relic
it's my build for current version
tired rune
happy buff day
final pagoda
after maintenance. it pulls data from the game client
is a 0.9% gain from haste flask (vs crit) a realistic one or it's just PTR simulation baiting?
(for 12.0.5)
I know you suggested that we will require a bit more haste with new builds, but I wouldnt expect so much
gaunt phoenix
i dont see a reason to distrust the sim for haste vs crit
final pagoda
I am using ptr sim in raidbots and I know there can be a few bugs with it, so just making sure
keen belfry
i dont see a reason to distrust the sim for haste vs crit
the only thing id wnna see is going into either a ST boss or 2 target boss with low tea charges
but i wonder if a few moree haste would even do anything
whats funny about not being able to press buttons is that it helps u just build zero in stacks
which is maybe why it feels worse than it actually is?
gaunt phoenix
i mean, also doing a natty roll
if you natty roll 3-4 you are suddenly way ahead of the curve
wintry solar
Awang, would you be mad if someone threw an egg at you?
wintry solar
Good good
keen belfry
oh no dont throw free nutrients at me!
final pagoda
does fazed increase critical strike dmg?
keen belfry
nooooooooooo
river wing
tbh
whenever you have a 3-roll
suddenly everything makes sense
everything flows
everything works
it's like the spec was designed around always having 3-roll
river wing
does fazed increase critical strike dmg?
yes, but only for builders
final pagoda
so I would expect crit be even more important now
keen belfry
does fazed increase critical strike dmg?
our PS is going to blast on reset
final pagoda
not sure why haste gain so much value :/
river wing
so I would expect crit be even more important now
I mean it's still the best substat anyway
gaunt phoenix
what is your haste
river wing
but haste is for those times when you don't get a 3-roll
final pagoda
22.5%
low glade
not sure why haste gain so much value :/
do we need more than the 23ish% recommended?
now
gaunt phoenix
my 24% haste doesnt like haste flask at all
final pagoda
my 24% haste doesnt like haste flask at all
did u sim dslice or patchwerk 5?
river wing
ur sub set is likely v bad for law since it must have like 800+ mastery on it
gaunt phoenix
did u sim dslice or patchwerk 5?
everything
long barn
Are we ready for today!!
long barn
Phys comps back on the menu boisss
low glade
Phys comps back on the menu boisss
it's already there!
zac's team is the fastest 21 timed
haughty moat
ye but because of the team and not beacause of their specs
keen belfry
i think phys is meta meta comp now
vivid vessel
It already was
keen belfry
but will never full be meta cuz who wtf plays feral/outlaw
vivid vessel
We got 2 R1 keys playing 2 night s week bro
silent crow
I feel like the answer is no but we're not supposed to actually use distract for cloud cover right? Just the cover from AR?
keen belfry
It already was
i think so too, but in the public eye its diff
vivid vessel
They are noobs
keen belfry
I feel like the answer is no but we're not supposed to actually use distract for...
this part doesnt exist anymore, its only AR now
jearbiro
random stirrup
They are noobs
the other group in my guild started gearing feral and outlaw last night
im excited to see it
proven ocean
proven ocean
random stirrup
its already happening bud
vivid vessel
Ye
frank finch
proven ocean
you will turbo gap them all though no>
They made all classes easy i dont think zac’s team will gap at all lol
manic quartz
we always send first 298 upgrade on mh yes?
keen belfry
the other group in my guild started gearing feral and outlaw last night
what are their names
low glade
are we gonna get a zac, ross, casual triple outlaw stream again?
vivid vessel
Genuinely no one can reach faro DPS also
proven ocean
Warrior isnt hard
vivid vessel
And yet
keen belfry
Genuinely no one can reach faro DPS also
its so funny