thoughts
#outlaw
vivid vessel
random stirrup
love variance
I will say that if you sectec immediately
the log partition for phase 2 doesnt include the damage from it at all
vivid vessel
really
random stirrup
it just looks at the rebirth cast
vivid vessel
that must be why
random stirrup
and you have like 1-2s before it
oh
nvm
they fixed it
like 2 days ago it was still working like this
vivid vessel
for next logs i think no
random stirrup
u just highroll idk
vivid vessel
idk
random stirrup
lucky crit
vivid vessel
dont you think its better
random stirrup
yes if you arent playing double its prob better
mystic berry
Sometimes I catch myself dreaming about dropping prep
final pagoda
@gaunt phoenix is it possible my rtb spell on CDM never disappeared? (using eUI)
keen belfry
frail veldt
when did they remove long arms
start of tww
short briar
sad
frail veldt
very
tender rapids
ayo everyone
tender rapids
lf outalw for 18-19 keys 
upper hawk
who let the ferals in here
upper hawk
oh no
keen belfry
final pagoda
anyway to sim on raidbots the 12.0.5 changes?
vivid vessel
lf outalw for 18-19 keys <:owwo:1261266519787044964>
wang offline>?
static crescent
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
keen belfry
wang offline>?
18...
frail veldt
ye
keen belfry
ty
daring yoke
so cancelling KS or not cancelling KS same dps?
formal thunder
had this happen to me before
worldly zephyr
Seems to only happen to me if I’m in stealth
formal thunder
felt violated
worldly zephyr
Happens the majority of the time I run that damn place
But you weren’t stealthed I see.
mystic berry
so cancelling KS or not cancelling KS same dps?
I hope so
thick copper
Hi guys, is it possible to
make a macro that casts Blade Rush if it’s available, and if it’s not, casts Dispatch?
daring yoke
is there any secret raid cleave build for trickster? or pretty much the same as AoE?
vivid vessel
Hi guys, is it possible to
make a macro that casts Blade Rush if it’s available...
no
@random stirrup im doing mroe damage with trinket in phase now
but im not managing to triple sec tech
but i know it can fit
i just need to be under boss early
and be good at wow
random stirrup
I was watching a lil bit
vivid vessel
we also have issues with add damage so
random stirrup
ye
vivid vessel
im trying to help as much as i can
random stirrup
sounds very difficult without guidon
keen belfry
zac no warr or druid in my key should i leave?
vivid vessel
or i get more haste idk
vivid vessel
zac no warr or druid in my key should i leave?
ye
keen belfry
random stirrup
idk i dont think its actually end of the world to hold gcd a little bit
slim hare
its not imo unless your trying to triple sec tech
tight kernel
gross phys comp enjoyers
keen belfry
sswho listed that kev
frail veldt
bahahahhaha
tight kernel
random stirrup
we also have issues with add damage so
i think its better to hold more damage on earlier eggs where people have more damage and send the one sectec on the last egg set thats actually scary
if you are only gonna do 4SC
random stirrup
ah
vivid vessel
imma swap it tho now i think
well wht for
thats less damage
oh am i dropping snd
i forgot about that
random stirrup
you stop obviously close to burn but you can use it to gain slightly more energy
because its like +20 total
and can cast more builders
also using your sht on builders to spawn clones
native tinsel
vivid vessel
you stop obviously close to burn but you can use it to gain slightly more energy
not sure i get the point
im not droppping snd
its certainly a damage loss no
random stirrup
it refunds more energy than it takes to cast it
random stirrup
it doesnt consume the supercharger
vivid vessel
io know lol
random stirrup
ER bug style
vivid vessel
but it deosnt do damage
random stirrup
but you cant cast a builder anyway cuz no energy
random stirrup
like during end of dance when u run out of energy u cast snd to get energy back to cast more builders
mystic berry
raid because unless you started late all you need now is raid loot
jolly geyser
random stirrup
it doesnt dodaamge
ok - you spend 25 energy on SND to gain 50 energy from relentless strikes, so you go positive 25 energy, half a builder. you would only press this mainly later in dance when you have no energy to shadowstrike (or storm), you instead use your gcd on snd to gain energy so you can press more strikes later
its not gonna be a big difference but its kind of funny
quiet ore
its our priority
Just run a vault ilvl all dungeons droptimizer and a raid max upgrade droptimizer and see what're your biggest upgrades
gray summit
bc i dont know if u can up like u want
gray summit
Just run a vault ilvl all dungeons droptimizer and a raid max upgrade droptimize...
i did but to see what its opti
fossil lintel
So we are the gambling spec, who wants to bet if they will release a last day adjustment for the patch and nerf us in the next few hours?
gray summit
u have to choice 2 items in droptimizer dungeon
bc u can have 2 MM+ items next week for example
cinder relic
So we are the gambling spec, who wants to bet if they will release a last day ad...
Shut up already
cinder relic
fossil lintel
Damn
frail veldt
put that pikman down
cinder relic
How am I suppose to enjoy my patch without complaining?
fossil lintel
That wasn't a complaint that was a bet
cinder relic
That wasn't a complaint that was a bet
I bet we are going to have so much fun with trickster
And we all become happy
fossil lintel
Polymarket is missing a huge opportunity not having wow patch notes bets
mild vigil
And we all become happy
I too cannot wait to play around a stationary zone and have a worse RNG curve
but more damage!
vivid vessel
its over bro im sorry ..
slim hare
when we all know you don't sleep
frail veldt
Polymarket is missing a huge opportunity not having wow patch notes bets
you can start it
polymarket is just a curator
just put up money dog
vivid vessel
@random stirrup
i did a big one cuh
still coudlnt fit 3 sec tech
idk
maybe i give up
i think im trolling my second sec tech also lol
vivid vessel
i think it ends up out of dance i suck
vivid vessel
no wei u get the clones in
yes
i can
i had one pull
where everything aligned
and i pressed 2nd dance 1 gcd late
and i still could press sec tech on bird last s
vivid vessel
so it would have been inside
if i had pressed 2nd one
!!
maybe i try to get slightly more haste idk
fossil lintel
polymarket is just a curator
To be honest I never used, didn't know anyone can create one
random stirrup
no sham elem in your raid §
hes multiboxing it
vivid vessel
ye
random stirrup
2 class at once
random stirrup
maybe i try to get slightly more haste idk
the darkmoon hunt thing will proc haste on him
idk if ur running it
vivid vessel
im running void
you always get a proc on average ?
could actually get me the 1 s i need
random stirrup
uhh ye looks like
its 65% uptime across all wipes in p2
and i was dead once or twice
fossil lintel
Huh, I didn't know I had to do the quest for the voidforge 5 times
Can I do all 5 on the same character this week?
crimson niche
Yes
lyric sun
Are we switching back to Trickster tomorrow? 🥹
vivid vessel
fossil lintel
Yes
vivid vessel
wait
its reduced by haste
@random stirrup i didnt know
my sim isnt getting 3 sec tech in
frozen quest
just simming my outlaw gear lets see how bad it is to reroll outlaw for m+? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2sGHGGVmT34LDJC8QCtneh
gray summit
ok so if u dont have the gaze
keen belfry
u have great gear cuh
frozen quest
u have great gear cuh
is it good?
keen belfry
mhm big bro
frozen quest
farmed all day m+ to get crit/haste rings and cloak
frail veldt
Yeah how puggable is chim mythic
keen belfry
very apparently
frail veldt
Hell yes
chrome pollen
Had a decent group, did it in like 10 pulls
keen belfry
it might get worse tomorrow tho
chrome pollen
Insane
keen belfry
as ppl like mewo are gonna try and pug it now
frail veldt
I'm not in a rush
keen belfry
cuz rerolls
keen belfry
i dont have them either
keen belfry
i think so
frozen quest
think i gonna recraft belt+offhand to crit/haste for sub single target its only -300 dps
top gear is with double crit/mastery
static crescent
Hmm, have I concluded this correctly, not having access to mythic raid loot, and having a crafted weapon, I most likely want to just upgrade my crafted weapon when that forge thing gets active?
red zinc
static crescent
Simming m+ weapons vs. the crafted one seem like there is no point target farming those
Not sure if the higher ilvl you gain by getting the 289 upgraded makes a massive difference
What itemlevel the crafted items increase to with voidcore even? cant find it fast atleast
aha 294
frozen quest
need 5 crests to upgrade my mh to 289
gray summit
294 vs 298 do you have the difference ?
and if u have 298 weapon u can do the ring
i believed its the best combo to have ring + boots or wrist no ?
12.0.5 its the case ? or we are @near rock fans and we are doing the trinket ??
static crescent
raidbot doesnt allow those inputs, but il assume its gonna be the same as 285 and 289, so like 300-400 dps
To soften the blow, if you dont raid best you can do with the MH is crit+vers too
gray summit
the hast + poly is working well
on the 3rd of VS
Do you open ur vault in assa/sub or outlaw ?
static crescent
I have, will swap to outlaw lootspec now until i decide to upgrade the crafted MH
gray summit
Playing the MH 294 u loose the embelish ring
static crescent
that also requires a lot of sockets
Not sure how many, but so many I might be done with the game for this season by then lol
And can have crafted weapon without embelishment
gray summit
oh wait
i am just saw the best things to craft for simulationcraft
its boots + wrists
dusty magnet
Are we only able to select one wep to upgrade? Like I can't convert a dagger to a sword after right?
static crescent
Dont think so
Id reckon at some point your at surplus of those upgrade things tho if you keep playing
Just takes 3 to upgrade everything if im understanding right
cinder relic
Correct
dusty magnet
Just takes 3 to upgrade everything if im understanding right
Well how does that work with off hands with rogue
My point is I'll probably have to play sub for raid and outlaw for keys
So ill be kinda cooked for 3 weeks
Like do two 1h classes just get fucked?
Requiring 4 vs everyone else's 3
And then it's 6 if you want both specs
stone cradle
sorry, where are you getting these numbers from?
cinder relic
We don't know how common we get them
stone cradle
as it is, the description sounds like the nilhammer is another time gated unlock after 12.0.5 drops
cinder relic
Offhand stats also don't really matter
stone cradle
and nobody knows if the currency is limited per week yet, do we?
final pagoda
Anyone has addons/m33kauras to display important m+ debuffs ? I saw it in many UIs
stone cradle
like the details on this part are nonexistent
dusty magnet
And if you want to play outlaw it fucked
cinder relic
We don't really know how common the currency is
dusty magnet
Because you're griefin your raid if you're not doing dagger first into two trinkets
Meaning my outlaw wep will be 3 weeks behind
And then my off hands too
cinder relic
Hello
Hello
We don't know
How long the currency takes
Ur not 3 weeks behind
I could be like catalyst
stone cradle
if it drops like catalyst charges then who cares, and if it's weekly well that's the world of trying to multispec (see: choosing a weapon with your first sparks)
cinder relic
I've seen nothing confirmed
stone cradle
whoever told you anything, you're probably mixed up with the bonus roll system
which is not the item upgrade system
graceful pebble
i know, but i'm not telling
glass mortar
it would be dumb if they were a limited system
its basically just gear upgrading
like theyll probably just continously drown u over the weeks until u have more then u need
but itll be scarce early on
faint hare
it has been confirmed they will drop from content like catalyst charges? Atleast in the post about it it said that
still smelt
@frail veldt @cinder relic, after fresh installing, rebooting, removing any extra necessary addon => game changer, no stuttering so far, already gained fluidity and dps on patchwerk, will try keys and raid tomorrow
frail veldt
nice nice
final pagoda
trying again: anyone has a WA for debuffs?
cinder relic
For what debuff
final pagoda
displaying debuffs (better if dispellable) at the center of screen
cinder relic
idt they can do that
final pagoda
im sure I saw it somewhere
in some streamer UI
cant u get get ur current debuffs
and filter them?
soft abyss
final pagoda
I bleieve it was m+
final pagoda
well if they are not private auras, u can filter them via wa no?
vivid vessel
no
there are tricks
because you can count auras
if you know that the aura you wanna track is always the third aura that get applied
or if you know that the aura get applied at x timer
but its just workarounds really
you cant directly check a buff
blizzard has made filters tho
and i think there is one filter that is something like "dispellable by me"
or smthj
final pagoda
well can you make a WA that only show dispellable by me debuffs?
im confused
I understand if they are private auras, but what about others?
vivid vessel
if they arent
prolly
but you cant just do it
with weakauras
you could
do it
if you knew how to code it
vivid vessel
no
hybrid pecan
final pagoda
the top 10th m33kaura view has somehting like 800 views
cinder relic
stone cradle
there's about a million vibe coded addons (and probably weakauras) that claim to do debuff filtering or interrupt/cd tracking and are just using all the APIs that return secret values in m+/raid and they never bothered to test in a real environment
so unless you checked for sure what it's doing I wouldn't count on it
cinder relic
^
vivid vessel
there's about a million vibe coded addons (and probably weakauras) that claim to...
blizzard gave filters for debuffs tho
like
important debuffs
external defenisves
big defensives
stuffs like that
- some spells are non secret so you can manually blacklist them
mosytly raid buffs and lust debuffs
junior folio
!tot
final pagoda
I just used for MT and it was working pretty good
it tracked almost all the dispellable debuffs I needed to know
why so much skepticism
wide flare
thanks!
hollow temple
blizzard gave filters for debuffs tho
Is everything just way too convoluted and dumb now or that just me?
vivid vessel
yes
hollow temple
vivid vessel
you can do a lot of things that you could before
but its all very complicated
and i dont mean for users only
hollow temple
They achieved the opposite of what they set out to do ig
hollow temple
Cuz addons feel 10x worse to situate now
And still provide advantage over ppl without them
hollow temple
I think it’s time to pull the rip cord
wintry solar
I agree
fathom bramble
damage meters being completely broken seems like the largest impact in the end
gray summit
with the new buff
craggy quiver
Is it broken?
hollow temple
Ya
vivid vessel
u will play outlaw in raid now ?
on lura yes
i will
not on bird
but hopefully bird dies tomorrow
fathom bramble
I mean the only thing they can display is dps, combat time, and damage dealt
vivid vessel
i think we can do it
final pagoda
did other specs got buffed on 12.0.5 on average?
fathom bramble
everything that is actually actionable info is hidden in damage meters
gray summit
6% for sub
wintry solar
They need to pull the ripcord, make VIABLE COPIES of what people are using, and start again.
gray summit
nothing for assa
vivid vessel
everything that is actually actionable info is hidden in damage meters
worse thing is death metter im o
final pagoda
if others specs got buffed lets say 8% on avg, ours is not so outlying
fathom bramble
yeah
wintry solar
The whole UX is awful with the meters honestly
stone cradle
sometimes it bugs out and shows you information about someone else's death if you use the blizz recap thing
very funny
vivid vessel
so cant check boss damage
craggy quiver
fathom bramble
blizz recap always shows the most recent player death I think
instead of your own
craggy quiver
I play with an aug so meters are always fucked
final pagoda
most likely they will double down and put more resources to speed up their own UI for next xpac, which means we will get less new things as a consequence
there is no way they will say this was a mistake and backtrack everything. no addons can be very beneficial for biz metrics (new players onboarding, console porting, etc)
wintry solar
@hollow temple have a question for you since you play arenas. Let's say you fight FDK/WW/MW in Mug right? And then next arena you fight Warr/Ret/Rdudu in sewers, when you go back to Mug on the meters, does it also tell you the dmg of the people from sewers too?
final pagoda
players who care about addons so much are also players who are less likely to quit wow
wintry solar
Frankly I'm thankful the UI and class devs are separate teams
I imagine things would be much worse otherwise
hollow temple
<@629463378250956810> have a question for you since you play arenas. Let's say y...
Ngl I completely ignore the damage meter this entire season so far
I look at overalls at the end of matches/rounds and clear
If u clear after every game it stops it from bugging out as much
livid kindle
can anyone explain why exactly we want to finish exactly at 6+ with trickster and not 5? is it because of apex talent?
is Solo around
cinder relic
Fatebound has a talent that rewards u for finishing at 5
livid kindle
yeah 5 or more just like any strategem talent
wintry solar
Fatebound has a talent that rewards you for finishing...
vivid vessel
yeah 5 or more just like any strategem talent
no
its 5 flat
doesnt scale with cps
at 5 cp spent you flip a coin
thats it
no cp scaling
wintry solar
Zac make a 6cp build thats good plz thank you
vivid vessel
not posible
wintry solar
livid kindle
its 5 flat
you mean coin damage right ?
fathom bramble
just playing the normal build and dispatching at 5 is probably the closest you'll get
wintry solar
I knew, I just needed it to be said...
vivid vessel
the issue is this
if the talent only gave +1 cp
you could have an argument
but it also gives 5% finisher damage
hollow temple
I knew, I just needed it to be said...
Just supercharge your 7cp KS and come back next business day ok
wintry solar
Just supercharge your 7cp KS and come back next business day ok
You're so EVIL
fathom bramble
can anyone explain why exactly we want to finish exactly at 6+ with trickster an...
it's a combination of effects like most things, it's likely that coins alone wouldn't do it and we obviously don't see apex alone doing it but combined you end wanting to finish at 5
wintry solar
I can tell you play sub
fathom bramble
our current combo point economy also results in a lot of waste when you try to finish at 6
plain portal
guys for keys should i bother grabbing vers gear or is it ok to use some of my crit haste sin gear as long as i have enough haste?
fathom bramble
which probably plays into it as well
livid kindle
i mean finishing at 5 spawn a coin
wait i cant read xd i thought all along that it is 5 or more xd now makes sense my bad
vivid vessel
guys for keys should i bother grabbing vers gear or is it ok to use some of my c...
we play crit haste
no vers anymore
plain portal
o perfect and its like 21% haste we want yea?
livid kindle
alright ty zac
vivid vessel
i know
if there wasnt that 5% damage on finisher thingy
we would maybe play 6cp
i wish
cause honestyly 7 cp gameplay rn is very very bad
for trickster
very very bad
dogshit !
livid kindle
are you gona go flickering steel zac?
livid kindle
i mean if it feels better to play but sims like 0.2% less damage
vivid vessel
i would rather play vers just so im tankier
cause outlaw is legit
dies to everythign in high keys
any dot on you
you can alt f4
keen belfry
i would rather play vers just so im tankier
mhm
keen belfry
during fart cloud u tanky
wide flare
i miss 40% vers..
keen belfry
15% dr is good
livid kindle
we will get there in 4th season
wide flare
ye prolly
wintry solar
Wish they'd have left our defenses alone and just did the gameplay changes 
Which sure our vers would take a hit obv
livid kindle
yeah i miss feint + evasion cdr talent
wintry solar
New vial talent soon though 
wide flare
does that vial talent work in HL content? the exp things confuses me
feels like a pexing talent
or pvp
livid kindle
it doesnt help with oneshots though in high keys
cinder relic
It's for questing, delves, world content
wintry solar
PvP no, mythics yeah. Usually those work in mythics
cinder relic
P sure it'd also just proc like, every other Pack or smthing
wintry solar
DK has the same thing but not a talent
vivid vessel
there is no one shot in hgih keys
key damage is different nowadays
its all dots
every damage in high keys is just damage over time
bleed
pulsing damage
etc
wintry solar
I may be misremembering what it actually does, one sec
wide flare
wide flare
ye i think so
livid kindle
yeah i dont think it is comparable with sting like a bee or whatever that talent was called
wintry solar
Warriors and DKs have their heals proc in mythics so idk why this one would be different
vivid vessel
wdym you dont think
this talent either doesnt do anything
or doesnt do anything
maybe if you are lucky
it doesnt do anything
thats the very best case tho
livid kindle
i mean i tryed to softball xd
vivid vessel
best case scenario it actually works in key so you get a 5% insta heal on your first vial of a boss
insane value
wintry solar
Truly
wintry solar
They outdid themselves this time
vivid vessel
or the 5% thingy drops befgore you are able to even use vial
like its a 30s buff or smth
hollow temple
what an amazing new talent guys
vivid vessel
which would be funnyt
vivid vessel
hm
hollow temple
vivid vessel
i feel like there is a huge disconnect
between what devs things rogue is
and what it actually is
rogue in keys is one of the squishiest class in the game
wintry solar
I feel vial is underutilized or undertuned or both
hollow temple
it feels deeper than that ngl
vivid vessel
and we got that vial thing
wide flare
i remember an old post saying we were going to be able to gives vials out like healthstones
vivid vessel
we are also 0 utility and we got aoe blind removed
wide flare
never going to happen
vivid vessel
idk
wide flare
but would be cool
wintry solar
That was an old pvp talent
inner yacht
tbf leveling rogue kinda sucks i think this is a good talent its just that rogue needs other thigsn as well
wintry solar
Cool idea tho
They put a lot more emphasis on world content and delves this time around so maybe it doesn't work in mythics
Of which nothing would be lost
cinder relic
Is it not the same as all the similar talents
wintry solar
I think so
cinder relic
Its just a whatever world questing talent to help the spec that kinda stinks at it
wide flare
the thing is if the cd works in M+ surely there would be no CD at all?
livid kindle
wait did they revert aoe blind coming back or?
wintry solar
It'd make no sense the other classes have theirs proc in mythics but not rogues
wintry solar
wait did they revert aoe blind coming back or?
Yeah
hollow temple
huh
livid kindle
NO WAE
cinder relic
well i'd be no CD, in a pack, as its dying, and it still costs energy
wide flare
i mean we do have a lot of DR
vivid vessel
true i didnt even check
its a new talent
doesnt replace naything
new node in the middle
wintry solar
Every 3 crits your vial is reset
vivid vessel
but i mean
vivid vessel
i dont feel like we can take it in keys anyway
fathom bramble
kind of hard if you have to take healing reduction
wintry solar
Nah I doubt. I'm not at least
fathom bramble
which you have to in like half the keys
vivid vessel
basically
it compete with this imo
every other talent you cant really remove
ok sure you can remove that one
fathom bramble
a mob that is not more than 10 levels lower than you
formal thunder
but often it's kinda iffy
sometimes you have to do the killing blow with abilities worded like that, sometimes not
fathom bramble
realistically everything you would be fighting where this talent could do anything at all will be a mob that gives xp
course I still don't know if it is limited to killing blows or not
I never tested and don't remembe someone else testing either
formal thunder
sometimes you have to do the killing blow with abilities worded like that, somet...
okay, nevermind it actually says killing blow and not just killing an enemy that grants xp
fathom bramble
yeah it definitely reads as KBs only
vivid vessel
well it does work on mobs in m0 at least
wintry solar
I read that somewhere
random stirrup
idk its an open world talent to smooth over rogue levelling
vivid vessel
otherwise its pretty useless
random stirrup
seems fine
vivid vessel
should have been more
rogue is prolly one of
if not
the squishiest spec in the game in keys
wintry solar
True, granted I'm not at a level I'm spamming vial yet.
vivid vessel
and you litteraly have nothing for any dot etc
when this season
everything is a dot
wintry solar
Dot heavy ye
vivid vessel
wouldnt feel that bad if they didnt change dungeons design phylosophy
so thrat litteraly every damage in a key
is over time
not feintable
back when rogue was considered tanky every damage in keys was aoe
livid kindle
i mean other classes was way less tanky also then they are now rets dk's after df and tww
fiery pendant
I miss soothing darkness 😭
wintry solar
I miss float
livid kindle
yeah Mohammed Ali talent was goat
wintry solar
Sting Like a Bee was cool too, granted useless when put in a choice node with float
quiet ore
not feintable
According to the spreadsheet there's one or two that despite being over time are still feintable! Also: elusiveness
vivid vessel
i said keys levy
quiet ore
20% DR on a 15s CD, two charge, is way higher potential uptime than most other specs. We just pay a cost for that. Literally. Energy.
vivid vessel
its not tho
because other specs usually just have 20% dr (including dr or health increases) built passively in the spec
also spamming feint is legit
2 feint and you have no energy already
cost infnite dps rn
quiet ore
Yeah, for sure, just the potential is there. No other non-tank spec can say "yea I definitely have a DR available" 4x a minute
fathom bramble
except warr
livid kindle
yeah for example dk and ret just passively tanky
vivid vessel
they can its just passive bro
quiet ore
except warr
Tru
wintry solar
yeah for example dk and ret just passively tanky
You can't compare to DK when devs said it's intentional that they rival tanks in defense
fathom bramble
as far as melee specs go most of them have more passive tankiness than elusiveness gives us actively
only really WW is out of luck
quiet ore
as far as melee specs go most of them have more passive tankiness than elusivene...
I don't think hunters have more passive tank than we do? They got 5% more HP from their HP talent, but I don't really see any passive DR
livid kindle
You can't compare to DK when devs said it's intentional that they rival tanks in...
i mean sure but then rogue has to have edge over dk in other aspects which for m+ it actually doesnt
fathom bramble
I don't think hunters have more passive tank than we do? They got 5% more HP fro...
I forget surv is a spec
wintry solar
That's a different conversation
faint hare
Hunter is one of the tankier specs atm right with multiple dr and pet
quiet ore
they do get more than 5% life though
They have a 10% bonus to our 5% (that we often don't take)
fathom bramble
oh right 6% reduced dam taken
wintry solar
Oh 6
quiet ore
that is dr
Flat 3%, doesn't scale, but yeah
hasty wolf
As a rogue i do feel like a roach
quiet ore
Slightly better than our 3% phys only DR node
hasty wolf
When it comes to survival
fathom bramble
Flat 3%, doesn't scale, but yeah
isn't it doubled from your pet being nearby?
or is that somehow only the damage half
hasty wolf
In raid people seem to take more damage than i do
quiet ore
or is that somehow only the damage half
Wowhead says only the damage scales but I don't actually know
wide flare
we need evasion CDR
hasty wolf
That would be OP
wide flare
would help a bit
hasty wolf
Slight reduction maybe
wide flare
didn't we have that at some point?
quiet ore
also this is on charges
It's elusive feint on 6x the CD, but free. Which is nice, for sure, but not super high uptime or anything
vivid vessel
It's elusive feint on 6x the CD, but free. Which is nice, for sure, but not supe...
there is a massive difference between 20% dr and 30% so i kinda disagree there
fathom bramble
it's also long enough to actually cover something with any duration
feint needs to be cast twice often to fully cover anything
cinder relic
I assume u mean dungeons
wide flare
i feel like evasion would not be too op on CDR again
cinder relic
I can't remember the last time I needed double feint to cover smthing in raid
hasty wolf
Windrunner hawkstrider does have aoe
fathom bramble
Alleria
quiet ore
there is a massive difference between 20% dr and 30% so i kinda disagree there
Sure, but we can also for big events layer evasion over feint for another 20%
cinder relic
0 rogue fight
fathom bramble
if you choose to go elusivenss for the thing that deletes melee dps from the raid
it lasts 10 seconds
cinder relic
I have no idea what happens taht fight
livid kindle
they prolly nerfed float talent with PvP in mind cuz i dont see other reason to remove it
fathom bramble
I have no idea what happens taht fight
giga dot goes on 1 random melee every 20 seconds for all of p2
and you just run out of stuff and die unless you are ret/dk
hasty wolf
Guild and I just downed crown on heroic yesterday
quiet ore
giga dot goes on 1 random melee every 20 seconds for all of p2
This is the trade for not having to bait a circle? Seems unfair
fathom bramble
especially since you are likely sitting all melee
wide flare
is there a good dungeon MH?
vivid vessel
This is the trade for not having to bait a circle? Seems unfair
you have to bait a circle
fathom bramble
and therefor get it 1/3rd(for us) of hte times it goes out
our warr died becasue he got it 4 times in a row on our kill
and ran out of buttons
quiet ore
you have to bait a circle
I thought those only targeted range
vivid vessel
no
quiet ore
Ew
vivid vessel
its just different for melee
for melee you get it on you
and you have to drop it down
somewhere
so on ranges
fathom bramble
on mythic it goes on 1 melee and 1 ranged everytime it goes out
vivid vessel
ranges it just drops from them directly
quiet ore
I mean, that's a bit different
faint hare
Yeah only range can get it insta so its bait
vivid vessel
its not like ranges are doing anything to bait
faint hare
melee get the debuff and they have to go drop it?
hasty wolf
Which debuff are we talking about now, the chain or the poop drop?
Because i have gotten both
vivid vessel
the poop in p1
for melees
is legit
9 /11
ranged just walk forward bro
between baits
fathom bramble
obelisks in every phase destroy your hp which is what I was talking about earlier
vivid vessel
idk why you are acting like baiting is doing anything
fathom bramble
the 10 second dot
quiet ore
between debuffs
Yeah. That's what I thought. One melee gets fucked and has to run out, be dispelled, and run back, while all the other melee have happy fun times. Meanwhile all range move because they all pre-position to bait the circle spawn
fathom bramble
I mean the bait/puddles are like the least anti-melee thing on the fight
vivid vessel
there is no way you think this fight is even close to remotely fair
ranged do nothikng
they walk every 20s
after dropping puddles
wtf does that do
nothing
have you played the fact as a melee or what
its litteraly impossible to get any second of uptime
between drops, adds pools, obelisks
lines
p1 is legit
hell
vivid vessel
idk
hasty wolf
Some exceptions
vivid vessel
i would neccesseraly agree
quiet ore
Yeah, it's "don't get picked for mechanics" lotto, which is... Basically normal for melee
fathom bramble
sometimes there is a fight where stuff just doesn't target melee and it is kind of nothing is going on ever
vivid vessel
Yeah, it's "don't get picked for mechanics" lotto, which is... Basically normal ...
you get picked by mechanics tho, and others getting mechanic also affect you
ranges just walk every 20s
bro
fathom bramble
the idea that melee just don't get targetted is also simply not present in raids for the last few tiers
fathom bramble
the fight where there are 2 different debuffs that can force you out of melee range ?
I don't feel very winning on that fight
vivid vessel
what is king
hasty wolf
Yah but we are good on spin
fathom bramble
salhadaar I assume
vivid vessel
ah saladar
hasty wolf
Yah
fathom bramble
wdym
cinder relic
the idea that melee just don't get targetted is also simply not present in raids...
Didnt OAB have ranged only targeted mechanics
fathom bramble
just drop a puddle in melee range or what
vivid vessel
and i think i have gotten the lines mechanic once
cinder relic
They did didnt they
hasty wolf
I drop them out
cinder relic
the tornados
vivid vessel
just drop a puddle in melee range or what
boss is perma moving
what does it even matter
dim parrot
Guys coming back to outlaw sometimes all my cd’s come back at same time and my brain overloads
vivid vessel
there is puddles everywhere
fathom bramble
They did didnt they
actually yeah they had dispels
cinder relic
Yeah
It just hasn't been required
I mean lura is a good melee fight
Lke genuienly
I think Paladins and alleria are just one offs, (two offs)
fathom bramble
alleria is the biggest fuck up when it comes to mechanic design I think I've ever seen
random stirrup
between drops, adds pools, obelisks
only noobs lose uptime to add puddles and obelisk
puddle drop is cringe though
vivid vessel
only noobs lose uptime to add puddles and obelisk
i mean i dont think i lose uptime
fathom bramble
I guess with OAB having it a more accurate statement is that there is very rarely a fight where melee don't get targetted and have no melee specific mechanic
vivid vessel
after progging it for a long time
and learning how to double step puddles
and just being better
but its clearly not fair to compare it to ranges moving in a stack every 20s
like
random stirrup
oh ye well
ranged is easy
news at 11
every ranged spec and fight ive ever played is payphone
u do nothing
quiet ore
I just think blizz has been designing mechs that force specific, individual melee out like this for a long time - this isn't exactly new. Multiple seasons have gone by of rogues praying to the rng gods "do not pick me for the mechanic because it will kill my parse, do not pick me rng please". This is just a time where melee DPS was poor enough that that rng played into comp decisions.
vivid vessel
you ahvent played that fight as melee levy
fathom bramble
I think that is understating just how much of an exception alleria is
fathom bramble
alleria is also the only fight like this that gets worse the fewer melee you bring
imagine the ultimate edge case of just 1 melee
they it every time
random stirrup
i kind of like it as a high skillcap melee fight uk
fathom bramble
and with most guilds running 2-4 you are getting spammed with shit the entire fight
grave rose
whos ready to go back to the law?
lucid sparrow
never left the law fym
random stirrup
there was one pull i got every obelisk from p1 start to p3 start
every single one
quiet ore
alleria is also the only fight like this that gets worse the fewer melee you bri...
That is sucky, but consider the opposite: only 1 ranged. They always control a circle, only one melee gets picked to move ever
random stirrup
they press their 2 movement globals and maintain perfect uptime
vivid vessel
That is sucky, but consider the opposite: only 1 ranged. They always control a c...
bro
are you an ele shaman one trick or what
what is going on
waht is this ranged player propaganda
in my chat
fathom bramble
kind of considering how it would play out in practice I think that would make the fight considerably easier
vivid vessel
disgusting !
fathom bramble
obviously it would require enough melee specs that are not tuned like garbage though
quiet ore
what is going on
I'm just sayin' the experiences ain't new, it's just shitty enough this time that non-melee people started to notice and exclude melee for it
cinder relic
It's not new, but its also never been this bad
fathom bramble
the remaining ranged players(not exactly 1 since you have to bring healers and they are all ranged) still have roughly the same moveement requirements
random stirrup
muh highly immobile ranged spec
vivid vessel
I'm just sayin' the experiences ain't new, it's just shitty enough this time tha...
and i told you mutliple time you are not understanding
its not just
a "oh shit i got fyrakk puddle in the opener"
its constant shitting
fathom bramble
this isn't like salad(TWW and midnight) where you might get 1 or 2 things and have to quickly move in and out
it's actual doom
idk how else to rephrase it
quiet ore
idk how else to rephrase it
Right, you said it yourself, the less melee in the raid, the more that 1 melee suffers
random stirrup
idk if im living in crazy land but i lost more uptime to salad claws than alleria stuff
quiet ore
And "one rogue for poisons" ain't gonna have a good time
vivid vessel
idk if im living in crazy land but i lost more uptime to salad claws than alleri...
elgit got slaad claws once in my entire life
i think the day i get it again i might wipe the raid
no clue what to do with it
quiet ore
Which, like. Is only the case because there aren't a raid worth of melee people wanna bring
quiet ore
Which is because tuning
random stirrup
in tww
vivid vessel
why is there 2 saladar
random stirrup
if youre talking to me yes
fathom bramble
I know I'm ignoring that
when talking about this
or trying to
I think I lost more dps to a specifically timed chain break on my character than I lost to obelisks on our kill anyway
random stirrup
chains arent great ye
fathom bramble
the one where you jump platforms and have to stand there
vivid vessel
waht is chain
fathom bramble
breaks
quiet ore
The p3 chains?
vivid vessel
like big circle ?
quiet ore
The barely visible circles?
fathom bramble
the one where you jump platforms and(for some reason) don't break melee insta
vivid vessel
we had melee clear insta all the time basically
and why do you not break melee insta
and even if you dont
fathom bramble
I also got obelisk right there and definitely can't charge the boss until that goes off
vivid vessel
i definitly can
fathom bramble
there's no way you step to the boss and fire an obelisk through all of ranged
unless you are thinking of a spot I'm not idk
vivid vessel
pizza slice
you are on blue after gate
boss is dragged to orange over time
after like 2nd set of obelist its on orange i think
and you are just walking on the edge
with obelisk
ranged are
idk where they are
fathom bramble
nvm our strat is just doom idk
vivid vessel
like middle of pizza rn
fathom bramble
we moved boss insta
vivid vessel
where
random stirrup
zac picture is how we did it
fathom bramble
the 2nd obelisk I am obv at orange and it's fine
but the one that goes out as you gate
you are stuck until it goes off
fathom bramble
stuck for us*
vivid vessel
melee go left
ok thats the ones that like explode insta before you move boss
idk let me find
pov one sec
fathom bramble
I get what your saying I think
but that's not what we did
the boss is gone insta after gate
random stirrup
you follow the boss while hugging left side
fathom bramble
and I are not chasing it without killing a ranged player
vivid vessel
ye
random stirrup
if ranged are near the edge following boss like they deserve to die idk
quiet ore
nvm our strat is just doom idk
This is real. Tanks determine melee uptime in the face of mechanics for sure. If tanks want to plant where melee doing mechs can't hit, then rip on. I think there's a lot of this going on in conventional alleria tank placement rn
fathom bramble
I think a lot of conventional alleria tank placement is trickling down from raids that only brought unholy and ret
quiet ore
Like the popular early tank strats are just straight hostile to melee doing mechs
fathom bramble
where you can troll melee constantly and it doesn't matter
vivid vessel
both of our sets were kinda like that
dont ask why im waiting like a noob there
i was spamming step while out range
wait we killed on that pull
fathom bramble
I see
vivid vessel
im so bad wtf
fathom bramble
this makes like 400% more sense
because we wait until the last second to gate for some reason
and it traps melee with obelisks in a bad spot
fathom bramble
I feel like both sets would be easier to gate earlier now idk
this one doesn't matter
and you get full melee uptime
random stirrup
because we wait until the last second to gate for some reason
thats the one i linked
fathom bramble
last second gate set is what I was talking about