outlaw

[keen belfry]

mine dont

in first pull

[timber zephyr]

do you have any videos of the chinese keys where they're doing the bug that takes no damage

[vivid vessel]

idk

on what

[timber zephyr]

I think it was like 20 pos?

[tawny dagger]

Do you think going back to trickster will modify the stats we're aiming for atm ? Like haste cap

[timber zephyr]

casual and kush watched it like a week or two ago but I cannot for the life of me find it

@dense forge

[keen belfry]

i think its going to be same same

i could see trickster wanting more crit i could see it wanting more haste

[frail veldt]

Is that a them issue

Or a spec issue

[keen belfry]

both

[fathom bramble]

crit is stronger than it was and haste doesn't fall off as harshly past 25%

I don't have good numbers on it, but I suspect we will not defer to vers nearly as early as fatebound does

[keen belfry]

im gapping them irl (rotation wise) but also their spec is mids like ours

[wintry solar]

Irl in game

[keen belfry]

agree i was going to say i think we legit want just these 2 stats

and playing a cd spec in pugs is harder

in that sense

[junior folio]

I'm gonna do a full mastery build and prove the world wrong

Everyone building their rogues wrong

[gilded tinsel]

Main Gooch build

[wintry solar]

Main coochi build

[civic zephyr]

Outlaw rouge tho?

[keen belfry]

outlaw is going to be good next week

i dont think S+ tier

but its def up there

we are a very fine/solid spec atm

14% dmg is a lot

like if both people play perfectly you should only lose to a few specs now

[civic zephyr]

Also Awang can you help me look at logs sometimes for M+ I want to see where I can do more to be doing your level of keys I feel stuck in the 16s right now.

My isp is down but can I DM you later?

[keen belfry]

yeah ill probs look at it tomorrow

logs are hard to look at FYI

[civic zephyr]

Yeah I was feeling the same way when I was looking at them solo

[keen belfry]

with outlaw u can only tell whats being fucked up, not why

u need to record if u really care

[civic zephyr]

I have vods too

[keen belfry]

can send a vod i wont look at all of it but i could probably tell based off a pull or 2

[civic zephyr]

I stream almost every key

[keen belfry]

whats ur ign

[civic zephyr]

Okay when my ISP gets their act together I’ll publish and download one and send it over.

Jupiterboiz

I think Illidan or zuljin

Wait no it’s Dalaran

[keen belfry]

logs so hard

[civic zephyr]

Yeah I can get Vods I don’t have a”what button I pressed last tracker” thing either on it

Like I was comparing TomElvis skyreach 2nd boss and I’m like why can’t i do that much dmg to it

It’s a literal single target high uptime boss

[keen belfry]

like just comparing your saldhar log vs mine

you wasted 131 combo points i wasted 55

thats a huge difference

you seem to be pressing SS when you shouldnt

[civic zephyr]

Hmm how can I get that info? Bc that is a lot

[keen belfry]

resources tab

[civic zephyr]

How can you see from this what is wasted?

Oh there is a wasted column. …

How can I tell like what wasting them looks like? Is it sinister striking and going over our max allowed points?

[keen belfry]

SS when youre supposed to ps

[civic zephyr]

Okay so other than get good, how can i practice this and get better? Like hours on the target dummies in 5 min sessions and upload logs and review them?

[buoyant stratus]

Cant wait to land on 5 constantly next week and overcap 240980cp going to 6

[keen belfry]

our fights are 3 seconds in difference, and i generated both 80ish more raw combo points, and net gained like 150 more than u

[keen belfry]

yeahhhhh

[buoyant stratus]

Its okay

I am accustommed to striking at 7 already

[keen belfry]

im pretty sure noobs are gonna be able to blast on trickster

[buoyant stratus]

Now cp is simply a tick on my UI

[keen belfry]

but we said the same about midnight outlaw

and noobs dont blast on this outlaw

[keen belfry]

yes dummies

[civic zephyr]

hints why i'm asking for so much help atm lol

[buoyant stratus]

I dont have any crit haste pieces zzz

Too much mastery

Wtb pit ring

[keen belfry]

and then play the game and during gameplay be able to think "wow that was a bad press why did i press that there"

[buoyant stratus]

8(

[civic zephyr]

okay gotcha, so like i'm working on extracting just a vod of skyreach right now bc i bet even on that 2nd boss fight there are noticeable times i do it.

[buoyant stratus]

Platinum star band enjoyer smile

[civic zephyr]

if im doing it in raid i'm doing it everywhere else also

[keen belfry]

unbuffed

[keen belfry]

yup

beauitful part about outlaw

if u are bad at ST u are bad at aoe

not flaming u this i show i teach

[civic zephyr]

fix 1 fix both.

[frail veldt]

At least in aoe for sure

[buoyant stratus]

Its gonna be your tier bro

Log in

[frail veldt]

I think mistakes compound more in st

Just like in the past

[keen belfry]

im literally dropping nukes this tier char

nukes everywhere i go

i think NA not ready for outlaw to be meta

[buoyant stratus]

I hatewatched ur magister 19

Hehe

Msging deepps the whole time

"Brick it brick it outlaw not allowed brick"

[frail veldt]

I don't think it'll actually be popular even if it's good

[keen belfry]

agree

[civic zephyr]

i dont mind, if you don't flame me how are you supposed to how the issues. i want to get good. Like i want people to want me in high keys like really want me like automatikjak to be like oh yeah we want that guy to run keys with us good.

[smoky lotus]

how long until we get overly nerfed as compensation

[buoyant stratus]

If outlaw actually becomes jesus youll see a decent amount

[keen belfry]

i still think deeps is the one who was reporting me for blasting in tww s2

bug abuse blasting

[buoyant stratus]

Kekw

[eternal hound]

Okay ngl

prep feels good

On dummies felt mid but having a mega blaster feelsgreat

[cinder relic]

[eternal hound]

I'M CRAZY

I'M GOING INSANE

[buoyant stratus]

I like prep

[keen belfry]

there was a m+ group reporting me and it was after i did keys with deeps and such

[buoyant stratus]

Except

That its a gcd

Madge

[keen belfry]

i swear it was him char

[buoyant stratus]

Nah deepps loves rogues

He wouldnt do that

[keen belfry]

yesss

yes me and deeps rp fuck in every key we do

jk he hasnt been inviting me this tier

[civic zephyr]

hey also on crown since there are like no outlaw parses, could you see killing spree beating out prep? like it seems like not bad...i was going to try it this week on our prog but i didnt get a chance too.

[keen belfry]

deeps hates me again...

[buoyant stratus]

Deepps is just homo erotic bro

Its funny he says he literally will not invitw rogues unless its me or wox xd

Youll get on that list just efuck him

[thorny zinc]

whats ur guys spellqueue window I feel like im trolling myself with low sqw and low fps in raid

[buoyant stratus]

I think the low fps is fucking you more than the sqw

[civic zephyr]

i ask about that bc on crown you kinda don't wanna blow your load right away..even as outlaw, but with killing spree we can blow our load except that button and then press it after the first 4 adds die on the first miniboss duder.

[buoyant stratus]

I play like 180 sqw

[keen belfry]

ive done 100 keys with deeps he dont want me?!?

[thorny zinc]

yea probably feels like im playing with 2 seconds of input lag

[buoyant stratus]

Ill confront hin

"2 rogue key or i keep sending bleach in the mail"

[keen belfry]

outlaw assa arms not bad

squishy ahh comp tho

i wonder if we are back to tanky next week tho

or if fazed uptime wont always line up

[outer meteor]

🙁

[keen belfry]

i kind have giga gear

[outer meteor]

got too much haste ig

[keen belfry]

just not ilvl tho

[cinder relic]

KS does not do what u think it does

[keen belfry]

bro where is your crucible

[outer meteor]

bruh

i didnt do

the quests

LOL

[keen belfry]

just go do it

[outer meteor]

isnt it a weekly thing

[vivid vessel]

just get gaze mythic

[keen belfry]

i bet its a whole % better than your heart of wind

[vivid vessel]

no need for crucible

[eternal hound]

DREADFLAIL DROPPED

[outer meteor]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wintry gate]

zac you were right, outlaw is close to sub/sin as well in m+ xD

i was totally playing shit spec

didn't have to even track gravedig

[outer meteor]

let me check if crucible actually sims higher

than the dogshit haste thingy

[eternal hound]

it's a fucking dps loss

[civic zephyr]

Wouldnt it just hit the one guy for a bunch of damage then also give us back our combo points? if there are no droplets around? What does it do then?

[outer meteor]

0.3% on st

[keen belfry]

it doesnt do any dmg

[civic zephyr]

this isnt dmg? Or is it just piss dmg

[keen belfry]

it does very little dmg

@outer meteor

[outer meteor]

and a 0.3% upgrade on aoe aswell

[civic zephyr]

Gotcha glad i didnt try it then.

[buoyant stratus]

Does ks even let u white swing during it

[gaunt phoenix]

No

[buoyant stratus]

That shit so weak zzz

[outer meteor]

is that ur dungeon slice or what

[buoyant stratus]

Even worse man

[keen belfry]

mhm u get no energy back, no zero in stacks

terrible button

and what it does like half of what a BTE does?

over 3 seconds too hehe

[buoyant stratus]

And its not good enough to 1cp cancel reeee

[cinder relic]

Like using it as a "big nuke" type button isnt that

[eternal hound]

I stg

[outer meteor]

how tf are u simming 8k higher than me

[civic zephyr]

Gotcha, i just thought it was more dmg than we would output in a small window after wad some BTE setup before it onto already dmg increased boosted adds that is where my mind was at for it. I dont mind being wrong, i just like to understand so i don't try to come up with these ideas again later lol..

[outer meteor]

is it just gaze diff

[eternal hound]

flail is a loss because of foil's crap proc

[keen belfry]

genetics

but no gaze isnt 8k

[outer meteor]

its like 2.5k on st

so prob closer to 4-5 on dungeon slice

[fathom bramble]

less than panda 🤔

everyone must go panda

[buoyant stratus]

Not being a dwarf in seat of the triumverate 🤔

[eternal hound]

Cuz nelf

I'm actually stuck

with a garbage ass hero track radiant foil

until I get myth lmao

[keen belfry]

is fazed not trackable

[wicked kestrel]

are my stats shit?

[outer meteor]

thats crazy

bro is doing m0s

[wicked kestrel]

yea i just swapped to outlaw lol

was lazy so i just crafted it

[keen belfry]

u need more haste but no ur stats arent terrible

faid a 246 mainhain needs to change

is fazed not trackable

[outer meteor]

should be

[frail veldt]

Not tracking adr cd

The fuck

[vivid vessel]

Not being dwarf in half the keys

Gl cuh

[frail veldt]

Fuck dwarf

[vivid vessel]

Ye ye

Try playing a key without dwarf

Gg bro

[keen belfry]

this is buffs

[urban oyster]

does this damage breakdown look like im playing somewhat accurate? im a lil mastery heavy due to playing sub prior but this key was a 12 seat - have 4set, hero guidon, champ gaze

[frail veldt]

Ah

[outer meteor]

bte should be higher

a little lower than br usually

[eternal hound]

...that seems pretty low for a 12 seat with aug

[outer meteor]

depends on key ig

[eternal hound]

on the overall

But like

we'd need a log to diagnose a skill issue

[urban oyster]

ight i will try logging next key . still learning so open to feedback

[outer meteor]

keep it going king

u got it

[keen belfry]

@vivid vessel just based on vibes of the # change do uthink this is strongest outlaw has been since ever

[eternal hound]

Guys

[keen belfry]

for sure since ive played it it seems like it

[eternal hound]

Do I gamba on a +14 AA

[vivid vessel]

nah

[civic zephyr]

Are we staying with fatebound on Tuesday?

[vivid vessel]

df s3 remember

we were highest dmaage spec in the game

still not meta !

:D

[keen belfry]

in sims we were like top 6 or somethinmg

[vivid vessel]

tww s2 was also better

[keen belfry]

all leggo classes were higher

[vivid vessel]

fuck sims

[keen belfry]

oh i thought u meant that

u think s2?

[eternal hound]

fuck fyraloth

[vivid vessel]

s3 df > s2 tww

and we will see

[keen belfry]

i just think we are going to be top tier in both raid and M+

[vivid vessel]

where we are now

but i dont thikn we are stronger

[keen belfry]

which idk, was that the case back then?

i was noob in df so idk how strong we were

i jus felt strong

[dense saffron]

I remember start of DF outlaw was going to be the Meta class in raid and M+

[cinder relic]

the curse of being good on heroic week

[thorny zinc]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1390125184857407488/1491980352670011443/GULP-3x.gif

[cinder relic]

Extreemly strong especially in noob keys

[buoyant stratus]

Yeah....

[vivid vessel]

we did r1 tott 30 triple outlaw bro

and i wasnt even like i am now

playing with good people

we just first timed the key

without warrior buff btw

[keen belfry]

yeah true

[vivid vessel]

back then outlaw was allowed to be good in keys

idk what changed

[keen belfry]

but that was a giga outlaw dungeon but u right

[vivid vessel]

if i had the people im playing with

[wintry solar]

Devs

[vivid vessel]

back in s3 df

[keen belfry]

nice comp bro

[vivid vessel]

we would have had r1 key every key prolly

it was just better

[keen belfry]

yeah i did blast keys that season with random comps

u legit cant do that now

[vivid vessel]

yes

now outlaw doesnt do damage withut war buff

iut is what it is

[keen belfry]

keys without sham warrior

actually feel bad

like genuinely bad

[vivid vessel]

xdd

[brave lagoon]

and that's how 90%+ of us play 😂

[vivid vessel]

kinda crazy how bad outlaw is nowadays

the last few seasons

compared to whats its been

[west ridge]

s2 tww

it was blasting

old killing spree though

[vivid vessel]

it was

but even then

it wasnt as good as df s3

thats the thing

and no one batted an eye at df s3 outlaw

[west ridge]

uyhh lets be honest bros

[vivid vessel]

people didnt even care it did that damage

it still wasnt played in keys

[west ridge]

all the rogue specs have been downhill since the rogue rework

[cinder relic]

which rework?

[west ridge]

df s3

talent rework

[sharp night]

brothers why is outlaw so fun

[vivid vessel]

i mena it peaked in df s3 tho

[cinder relic]

its high APM and its rewarding

[sharp night]

having a blast after finally clicking the spec in 5 years

the gamba is real

[vivid vessel]

i would argue its been downhill since hero talents

hero talents ruined rogue

all 3 specs

change my mind

you canmt

[sharp night]

a blast compared to sub 3 button rotation

[cinder relic]

Outlaw is just very directly rewarding in its gameplay

High APM, procs feel impactful

[dense saffron]

Is the reward in the room with us right now?

[vivid vessel]

i mean current outlaw isnt bad

if every season outlaw can be as good as this season

im very happy

[cinder relic]

I dont mean rewarding as in "being the best spec in the game"

But playing well with outlaw DIRECTLY influences how the spec feels

[vivid vessel]

obviously its still not great in raid but

idk the spec isnt made for raid

have to accept it at some point

[tardy agate]

is outlaw still useless with an aug?

[vivid vessel]

idk but why are you even considering playing with an aug

[cinder relic]

Its like fine in this entire raid except alleria and beloren

[vivid vessel]

thats high treason from where i came from

[vivid vessel]

sure

wont disagree

its good

[tardy agate]

coz my group that pushes one guy swapped to aug so i might have to stop outlaw 😭

[vivid vessel]

would rather stop playing wow than have a filfthy aug in my grp

aug players are dangerous

they have no shame

[tardy agate]

so to answer the question aug + outlaw is pointless

[vivid vessel]

idk i think its fine now

[tardy agate]

[buoyant stratus]

I mean 3% crit is very nice

Not the worst thing in the world

[brave lagoon]

I did a total of 1 key with an aug

it felt like it did something, but it could've been the 2nd dps was dogshit too idk

[buoyant stratus]

Id rather an aug than a mage or spriest in my key

[vivid vessel]

nah

no way

would rather play with 4 tnaks

than a aug

discusting spec

[buoyant stratus]

Ah

Priniciple hater

[vivid vessel]

yes

[buoyant stratus]

Based

[worthy tartan]

no matter how good aug is, you have to try to convince them that is garbage

[brave lagoon]

just play with 4 bears, I'm sure they can do the keys by themselves just fine

[short briar]

whats avg adr uptime in m+ now?

[gaunt phoenix]

its like 409%

40% even

[cinder relic]

409

[gaunt phoenix]

[short briar]

in combat ofc right

[fathom bramble]

that's like 4 times more AR than tww

[wintry solar]

[gaunt phoenix]

yea in combat

[short briar]

hmuch was it in df?

spec isnt fun for me unless i have high adr uptime lo

[wintry solar]

Come back next expac when we get more toys

[gaunt phoenix]

well late df it was perma

[cinder relic]

Its been about 40-50% in every period of time, except for DF S3 > TWW S3

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[urban oyster]

NGL this key was pretty wild and maybe not the best indicator but maybe could use some pointers as far as rotation - tank kept leaving melee on 2nd boss and last boss was a shitshow. still open to some feedback https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/61RPgcWazTGDFK4h?fight=last

BTE still ~equal with blade rush according to details havent looked at log yet

[short briar]

outlaw with er and gs

was peak

[frail veldt]

old ER was so good

[gaunt phoenix]

your haste is a little below par
you're using bte at 5cps a little bit
you're def missing a lot of globals from just stuff happening

i cant see but you might be losing dmg from blade flurry positioning

cuz its only so many yards around you

[urban oyster]

yeah my gameplay in general was pretty bad in that key but ok i will get more haste. took a look at guide and it was saying haste = crit so ive been focusing more on that since i was stacking haste/mast for sub

i def had some points where i hit BTE at <6 cp which ill try to focus on more

[gaunt phoenix]

there's some little things like using bte right before adrenaline rush

when you would hold bte for supercharger there

if AR cd is < 30s then you try to hold bte

[dim parrot]

Does blade flurry hit targs behind me if they within range

[gaunt phoenix]

yes

[urban oyster]

makes sense i can reprogram that from sub

[dim parrot]

G

[gaunt phoenix]

you had 6 stage 1 rolls which is not bad

usually with outlaw you have small errors that snowball into you having to roll without loaded dice and risk a stage 1

and getting stage 1 even for a little bit can drain all your tea charges and you do no dmg

but still 6 rolls in that key is not that bad

[dim parrot]

Solo we lose 2 talents next week for KS and second ace right? Where both come from? I saw summarily dispatched gone

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont really see a crazy rotation error that would lead to an overall that low

but it;s kind of how it goes cuz every global matters with outlaw

[gaunt phoenix]

in aoe, you lose sleight and dispatched

but you can trade acrobatic strikes for sleight

its < 1% worse but its better rng

[eternal hound]

Bro

Kill me

DH rages at party

when he RP walked with the ball

and wiped us on bird

[sharp night]

how lucky is 7 jackpots at 20 min dungeon run?

[gaunt phoenix]

about 20% of your loaded dice rolls should be jackpot

and most of your rolls should be loaded diced

[sharp night]

yeah right about 20%

[vivid vessel]

whats the chance of rolling a 2 buff 3 times in a row

[outer meteor]

100%

on aa first pull

[vivid vessel]

right

[gaunt phoenix]

8.5%? with sleight+loaded

[vivid vessel]

fuck bro that low

how does it still happen ..

[dim parrot]

Any outlaws streaming rn im at work

[sharp night]

just had a pit run

1 roll - 3 times
2 roll - 9 times
3 roll - 14 times
4 roll - 7 times
33 total rtb

are these the usual chances?

[vivid vessel]

no im sleeping sorry

[outer meteor]

im pretty sure i had a log somewhere where i rolled like 7 2 buff in a row

[dim parrot]

F

[outer meteor]

i think it was on vorasius

[vivid vessel]

you got pretty lucky prolly

but i mean

[gaunt phoenix]

you got lucky on stage 3

[sharp night]

yeah lol that explains the 95 key parse

[outer meteor]

how much overall do u gain from having a war and sham

[gaunt phoenix]

like 10%?

[outer meteor]

god i hate playing outside of phys comps

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[wintry solar]

See, your first mistake was playing phys comp. If you never play phys comp, you never have to compare yourself to phys comp or not phys comp.

Your second mistake was playing a spec relying on phys comp

That's not free btw, you owe my 5 bucks

[upper hawk]

they owe your 5 bucks what?

[wintry solar]

Fuck

It's over

[civic zephyr]

Should i be Sinister Striking here and then using Dispatch, or just dispatch?

[vivid vessel]

fatebound disaptch at 5 yes

trickster wont tho

next week

you would be striking

[civic zephyr]

okay gotcha.

[gaunt phoenix]

[civic zephyr]

I'm still planning to do m+ the next few days so i'm trying to get it for now

Those be the palmed shots(gravedigger)...so when its at 6 i know i can double bte

[harsh quartz]

I'm guessing our stat priority doesn't change much/at all with the trickster swap?

[dim parrot]

Ight Zac I’ll watch ur YouTube from today even tho can’t hear the playlist

[vivid vessel]

ye

not allowed to have music on vods unfortunatly

would be cool but

[cinder relic]

crit probs gets a smidge more value

so itd go from best stat to best stat

[dim parrot]

Voice over songs probs allowed if u have mic

[vivid vessel]

voice over songs?

[dim parrot]

Yeah like

[vivid vessel]

no i mean if its youtube it get insta dmcaed

[dim parrot]

You singing instead of the original artist

[vivid vessel]

oh

ye

[long barn]

Hahahahah

[vivid vessel]

prolly allowed indeed

[long barn]

I’d love to see that

I haven’t trolled on Zac’s stream in a while. That would be worth

Even if you like put the music artist and shit they shut down your shit Zac?

[vivid vessel]

prolly

[long barn]

Blah

[vivid vessel]

i know that ytb takes down the live

even

[long barn]

Wow

[vivid vessel]

they are good at it

ye

[long barn]

I had no idea

[cinder relic]

Usually ppl duo stream to youtube + twitch, and twitch will have music and youtube wont

[dim parrot]

Are we gonna double KS in opener during AR next reset

[vivid vessel]

and i still have vods from years ago on youtube back when i didnt care that still get taken down daily

[dim parrot]

Ew

[vivid vessel]

yep

thats what i do

otherwise ytb is insta gone

[cinder relic]

but then twitch vod gets no audio

xd

[vivid vessel]

i have audio on both

music on twitch live only

and not on vod

[cinder relic]

depending on the music ur twitch vod will get muted

[long barn]

Ya

[cinder relic]

If u dont split it properly

[vivid vessel]

oh

i dont think my vods get muted

the music isnt on the vod so

ye my vods are clean

no muting

[keen belfry]

solo

does trickster get more of these

than fartbound

[vivid vessel]

less

[gaunt phoenix]

no

[vivid vessel]

you finisher less often

cause you build to max cp instead of finishing at 5

[keen belfry]

mhm but with higher chance

[vivid vessel]

doesnt scale with cp

[keen belfry]

huh

[vivid vessel]

its a flat chacne at 5

[vivid vessel]

hm

i lied

oh is it the talent above

that is 5

[keen belfry]

im curious if u get more

but i do know it may be offset by slower trickster

[gaunt phoenix]

you absolutely do not

fatebound gets like 50% more

[keen belfry]

is it less?

interesting

y?

[vivid vessel]

well trickster waste a lot of cp still so

[dim parrot]

KS filling globals lol

[vivid vessel]

• ks ..

[fathom bramble]

fatebound generates more combo points and doesn't spend any on KS

[gaunt phoenix]

it gets more cps and doesnt use ks

[keen belfry]

i wanna see a log of dispatch casts

[fathom bramble]

also coup doesn't give meaningfully more bullets since it caps at 100% chance

[keen belfry]

like does fatebound press way more

[fathom bramble]

isntead of overflowing to a chance of 2 (like it should)

[keen belfry]

that would be lit

holy

[dim parrot]

Kinda pumped for perma tricks

[vivid vessel]

perma tricks is indeed goated

[fathom bramble]

it so clearly should overflow that I'm willing to call it a bug that it does not

[cinder relic]

perma tricks, lots of added passive DR

[dim parrot]

Gonna need it for dropping fart clouds far af away

Cloud cover doesn’t take us out stealth right

[fathom bramble]

every previous % chance per CP spent has overflowed in cases where it was possible

[vivid vessel]

new dev

doesnt even know how outlaw works so

[frail veldt]

tru

[vivid vessel]

80% of the things we got in midnight are cooked

[elder sonnet]

sub dev

[vivid vessel]

or straihgt up not understanding of how the spec works

prep, the cdr talent thing

bf energy cost

apex delay

i mean even apex vs ace idk what happened there

[gaunt phoenix]

tuning bf to 28%

[dim parrot]

Lolll

[vivid vessel]

there is also the fact its litteraly the first time ever we have this weird thing

were we have to build to 6 cp

but we generate 5 cp with every builder

that has actually never happened since i started outlaw

having this clunky of builder finisher rules

overcaping that much cp

[frail veldt]

whats the avg cp an SS gives as trickster

[dim parrot]

Next rework

Ace gives 5 CP

[frail veldt]

SS is on avg less than PS right?

even with stage 2+

[vivid vessel]

idk

ss create fth

so

[frail veldt]

sure

but just wondering if at 5cp you SS or PS as prio

[vivid vessel]

i dont even think it matters

[dim parrot]

If 3 opp stacks surely you SS? Idk

[gaunt phoenix]

dont overcap ps ever

[vivid vessel]

if you ss you finish and then you have to ps ss

so

:D

[dim parrot]

Oh

[fathom bramble]

at least ruthlessness overflows so you can still chain sometimes

[near osprey]

trickster 10-15% buff in raid and m+ so wouldnt we be pretty good in both content?

[vivid vessel]

ye

well raid unfortunatly you would still be unplayable on beloren and crown

but imo it might be the spec on lura

[haughty wigeon]

I took a lot of flak for defending Prep but I knew that having another set of CDs is good to do DPS given Outlaw can be penalized for not having CDR uptime. The devs gave Prep as a protection for Outlaw for having bad situations that come up that can tank DPS.

BlizZard would not give AR the charge treatment because then they would be forced to balance the energy from AR around the entire spec like it was in TWW as AR was used with stealth to extend the duration and give Outlaw energy during vanish dance windows.

🏄‍♂️ 🏄‍♀️

[vivid vessel]

tho sub is also getting a significant buff out of it so

[craggy barn]

yo zac

[cinder relic]

Burst legit doesnt matter on lurs

Its only iff the like, 10+ seconds of RP that happens kills outlaw on Lura

Which, it shouldnt

[vivid vessel]

no but sub does damage

[craggy barn]

if ur at stage 3, 5 seconds left
and have loaded dice 3 seconds left

would u reroll

[vivid vessel]

and you get a set of cds in p3

p4

p5

whatever the fuck damage amp

[cinder relic]

The damaseg amp at the end of the fight is fake

Like ur never dying to a damage check in that phase

[fathom bramble]

it's just literally a fake damage amp

amps that last for a certain amount of boss life are not real

[peak dock]

Zac sorry but i have to ask you would you rather date a femboy or a ladyboy?

[short briar]

whats the .5 sim

[fathom bramble]

they just make you look cooler on logs

now if damage actually mattered in that phase amp aside then sure

[cinder relic]

?

[fathom bramble]

but it also doesn't

[cinder relic]

can u not be weird

[vivid vessel]

idk the exact defnition of either

sorry

[peak dock]

Very important for outlaw optimization

[vivid vessel]

hm

[cinder relic]

If it mattered sub would be gas

[vivid vessel]

i dont think that true

[cinder relic]

But it doesnt matter so like, ull look insane on logs but it legit doesnt kill the boss

[vivid vessel]

because the phase is so short some specs dont even get to cd

i mena idk

[cinder relic]

Ur never dying to a DPS check in that phase

[vivid vessel]

why wouldnt it be good to do more damage

[cinder relic]

Ur dying to fucking up the mechanic

[vivid vessel]

i guess

but killing it earlier

ok true

sure

i guess the boss is rather

get to stage 4

simulation

if you get to stage 4 you kill boss in a few stage 4 pulls

[cinder relic]

U get to final phase x times and the boss dies

Its never a DPS check in that phase

[vivid vessel]

sure i guess

ok i agree

outlaw it is

locked in

actually something i have to lock in lol

because

weapon fucking upgrade

whatever happens im in till the end boys

🫡

[lime lake]

[stuck tiger]

🫡

[fathom bramble]

same concept as the moth boss

if you remember

but damage amp aside I'm will to say that perhaps depending on your raid the damage will matter

or won't

[vivid vessel]

i remember i agreed with you back then when you explained it

[fathom bramble]

idk

[vivid vessel]

but idk why

[fathom bramble]

imagine a mob spawns with 1 mil HP

they must take 1 mil damage to die

now a mob spawns with 2 mil but they take double damage

this mob must also take 1 million damage to die

[vivid vessel]

HM

[fathom bramble]

and conversely if they have 500k life and take half damage

this mob also needs 1 million damage to die

it's all fake and just warps details

[vivid vessel]

ok but in the example of the spider boss

if we say that the last phase was harder

playing assa cause it was in execute

but i guess

thats irrelevant to damage amp

ye sure

whatever

i accept

[fathom bramble]

yeah idk if the last phase will matter fake amp aside

I think it won't, but if it's easier to just burst her down then obv it can matter

but that's so hard to say without actually progging it yet imo

like if she dies 10 seconds early that matters surely

[dim parrot]

Guys how come I never been able to use modifiers on my mouse keybinds

Wow doesn’t register it

Never really tried that hard but still can’t seem to get it

[bright lodge]

That is equally to say that hunter’s mark is the same thing

[vivid vessel]

zorthas guild got to p5 4 times

and one time they got to 2.4%

they got to p5 3 times with everyone alive

[cinder relic]

No

Not at all

[vivid vessel]

the first time they had half the raid dead

they actually hit the enrage i think

[fathom bramble]

hunters mark is a fake damage amp

[vivid vessel]

but they had 2 deaht

last phase

[fathom bramble]

it removes x% of the mobs life functionally

but it shows on details as group damage

an amp active for the entire duration of mobs life is the same thing as the mob having less life

it's just the example of hunters mark has literally no consequences of that

[cinder relic]

itd matter if the boss is dying at 1:45 or something lol

[vivid vessel]

i think pre last phase damage is more important

looking at how many pulls zorthas guild did

they have a shit ton of pulls

but only 4 of them last phase

[cinder relic]

Most of ur wipes are just to glaives lol

[vivid vessel]

and they almost killed the third time they got to last phase if it wasnt for 2 people dying

[cinder relic]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/815858867430490113/1493452945507876894/vlc_Mp1ogDJsmV.gif

Look at our guild

[vivid vessel]

im assuming if anything p1 damage check is more real than last phase

• getting more damage in first part of fight means you can maybe get more p4s in even with deaths

so more value

so outlaw is better !

also outlaw will be tankier

with new trickster

holy shit

https://giphy.com/gifs/cinema-absolute-absolutecinema-9EvnXdZaUZbCqScn67

outlaw boss

it is decided

all signs point to it

[cinder relic]

unless sub is undersimming

[vivid vessel]

uh i mean

would need a pretty big number tho

i consider outlaw to be doing more st than sub currently

pre buff

[random stirrup]

i probably play sub

[vivid vessel]

if im wrong im only wrong by an infinite small margin

[short briar]

wait where are the .05 changes listed?

[random stirrup]

we can compare

[short briar]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-12-0-5-ptr-development-notes-class-updates-housing-and-more-380752

didnt see it here

[vivid vessel]

and then outlaw getting that much more compared to sub from trickster

even if sub is undersimming by like 5%

unlikely

outlaw still gets more

[dim parrot]

Zac u use platynator I need a better profile

[cinder relic]

Yeah I mean

[dim parrot]

Luxthos is shi

[cinder relic]

I t hink Outlaw will be very good on lura post patch

[vivid vessel]

plater

[dim parrot]

F

Okay I switch where’s your profile

[vivid vessel]

this is old af no

[fathom bramble]

blizzard hasn't even made proper notes yet right

[vivid vessel]

thats like one month old

[fathom bramble]

it's just all the ptr development notes

[vivid vessel]

do !ui in my stream

you have a doc with all the thingies

[dim parrot]

Dank thx

[bright lodge]

Ah, can’t wait for another 5% bf nerf

[gaunt phoenix]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/official-patch-12-0-5-development-notes-systems-activities-class-changes-381256?utm_source=discord-webhook

[short briar]

o

[vivid vessel]

im actually excited for next week ..

[short briar]

so from what im seeing

[vivid vessel]

im sinning ..

i know gameplay will be way worse ..

[random stirrup]

same..

[short briar]

ur switching to trickster next patch?

[vivid vessel]

but im excited about doing more damage ..

i feel bad ..

[short briar]

if so, is it more fun to play lol

[vivid vessel]

its not

but it will be doing mroe damage !

huge !

[craggy barn]

solo

[vivid vessel]

zomb

[cinder relic]

If you like killing spree it will be

[craggy barn]

zac answer my question from earlier

!

[short briar]

lol i liked killing spree when it tpd u around

[frank finch]

HOW MUCH MORE

[vivid vessel]

doesnt that mean 2s left

why would i not reroll

[fathom bramble]

yeah even with the downsides of KS it's an obvious improvement to our viability

considering you could(not recommending this) simply not take KS

and be in a better spot than live fatebound

[craggy barn]

what if its jackpot

[vivid vessel]

idk i usually reroll 3 under like 8s if i will lose loaded

purely vibes

jackpot idk ..

[craggy barn]

yea idk!

[vivid vessel]

i do it by vibes tho

[craggy barn]

same

[vivid vessel]

i dont think it matters what you do

do what feels right in the moment

[fathom bramble]

50% chance to get 3 buff or better

that's like 15 seconds of 3 buff on average

[craggy barn]

u know whats annoying

my main group

has an aug

[fathom bramble]

we vibe sac a few seconds for that

[craggy barn]

aug udk 🙂

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix i rolled a natty jackpot without loaded dice today

thoughts

[craggy barn]

huge

[vivid vessel]

first time it happens i think

im kinda goated

bet no one in here did that yet

[gaunt phoenix]

nice

[vivid vessel]

i also did a key

[fathom bramble]

I did that the other day

[vivid vessel]

where i kired after rtb falls off

twice in a row

[craggy barn]

i have rolled back to back jackpots

without ld

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix thoughts

is that in the apl

[gaunt phoenix]

hm

[fathom bramble]

I feel like kir should not be castable when you don't have a RTB buff active

seems odd

[vivid vessel]

idk i just hate when you like

[craggy barn]

bro im so pissed the log i had giga jackpot uptime on vor wasnt a kill

[fathom bramble]

but I'm sure if they tried to do that it would open a whole new world of bugs that disable kir

[vivid vessel]

pre queue your kir

and it doesnt go off

[fathom bramble]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

know what i mean

[fathom bramble]

like it's just outside spellqueue

[vivid vessel]

ye

[fathom bramble]

but you thought it wopuld queue

[craggy barn]

ye

[vivid vessel]

or idk

[fathom bramble]

and then you press it again like 1 second late and it's over

[vivid vessel]

cause it was on cd

can you queue something on cd or not

i still dont know

[fathom bramble]

you can

as long as the cd is below the queue window

[vivid vessel]

ok i guess its jsut clicking too early then

oh wait waht

i mean

what about outlaw cd tho

what if i prequeue with 5s left on cd

before a finisher

or wait

thats

[fathom bramble]

that won't queue

[vivid vessel]

really

so thats why

but it should tho

fuck !

why not

thats stupid

[fathom bramble]

well that would require them to be able to tell the future

since there is no way for the queuewindow to know that you are going to spend combo points

[vivid vessel]

ok but

[fathom bramble]

or it means being able to queue things that are not up

which seems even stranger

[vivid vessel]

wouldnt you queue it and try to send if cd is ready

unless canceled

that would make sense no

or would it not

[fathom bramble]

yeah I guess you could

you just check availability when it fires instead of on queue

[vivid vessel]

but i guess you would cancel it with dispatch after kir no

idk

ikd how thats supposed to work

i feel like it should fire when i do that tho i always get anoywed

but then if i dispatch > kir as long as cd is under my spell queue it would fire right

but then in this case i get cucked cuase my spell queue is kinda low

interesting

[gaunt phoenix]

i did confirm the fazed damage reduction does stack on ptr btw

[vivid vessel]

how did you confirm

you know tooltips

..

[sullen nimbus]

They will nerf it eventually when they notice just like the dk one

[gaunt phoenix]

from taking damage in rookery

[vivid vessel]

if there is one thing they wont nerf

its the dr

lol

rogue clearly needs it

[sullen nimbus]

lol

[civic zephyr]

In this situation, do I sinister strike and risk overcapping by 2 cp's[bc opportunity can proc] to get a BTE out, or do i dispatch and rebuild?

[vivid vessel]

squishiest spec in keys by far bro

[gaunt phoenix]

you ss > bte

[sullen nimbus]

If you say so

[vivid vessel]

i mean

its true

[sullen nimbus]

Okay if you say so

[vivid vessel]

its true

[sullen nimbus]

Okay if you say so

[fathom bramble]

wonder how much this shifts in 1 weeks time

[vivid vessel]

i do say so

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah zac

do you say so

[vivid vessel]

i do say so

[sullen nimbus]

Okay if you say so

[vivid vessel]

i did say keys

cheat in raid is obviously kinda op

since you get one use per pull

you just cant play cheat in keys so

[fathom bramble]

and yet rogues are insanely squishy melee judging from overall deaths lol

[vivid vessel]

thats vastly diff

[bright lodge]

Is it wrong to dispatch >ar>br>bte?

[vivid vessel]

i guess

[gaunt phoenix]

that is correct

[wintry solar]

[fathom bramble]

we would be down by WW without cheat probably

[vivid vessel]

i mean we are the squishiest melees no ?

oh ww i guess

but like

[eternal hound]

I mean

what class is squisher then us

[vivid vessel]

dh is tanky, feral is fine, warrior is infinite, dk is infinite

what else is there

then there is ranged but idk

ranged is a different game anyway

i dont think its fair to compare

by default melees should be tnakier

[sullen nimbus]

Windwalker for sure

[vivid vessel]

but then thats not true really

[sullen nimbus]

According to that graph ret and feral

But the type of person who plays ret

Is more likely to die anyway

[vivid vessel]

ok i mean

ret is clearly not squishiest than outlaw

lol

just the fact you are plate

[frail veldt]

What makes dh tanky

Doesn't it just have the one wall

That's like 20%

[vivid vessel]

idk they have infinite leech or smth no

[quaint mauve]

isnt it their leech

yeah

[frail veldt]

Yeah they have leech but

[sullen nimbus]

Doesn’t it have a bunch of passive dr and infinity leech

[fathom bramble]

infiinite leech good passive and active DR

[frail veldt]

Is that enough

[vivid vessel]

idk in keys

[sullen nimbus]

Yes usually

[vivid vessel]

current meta at least

[quaint mauve]

immo gives DR too no?

[vivid vessel]

back in the days you could argue feint was op cause most of keys damage was one shots right

[sullen nimbus]

They are buffing devourer bro I can’t

[vivid vessel]

but thats not what is doing damage in keys nowadays

[frail veldt]

Yeah truuuu

[vivid vessel]

nowadays if you are passively tanky and can heal up bleeds dots etc

[frail veldt]

Damage is like over a few seconds now

[vivid vessel]

thats whats matters

[frail veldt]

Makes sense

[vivid vessel]

everything is like that in todays keys

[quaint mauve]

isnt it jsut a bug fix

[vivid vessel]

evertythign

[sullen nimbus]

No

[frail veldt]

Y'all all in on leech enchants that's what Ive been doing

[vivid vessel]

of course

we tried seat 21 today

comes 2nd boss

everytime dog jumped

someone died

you have dot on top of dot idk

its not fair really

unless you are a warrior

[bright lodge]

What would you do in this scenario: kir is far away, 3roll with 10s left and loaded dice 3sec left and AR off cd? And if it was Jackpot?

[vivid vessel]

roll last second of loaded

[cinder relic]

I feel this is inherently going to skew towards active mitigation vs passive

[fathom bramble]

mobility probably also plays into this graph to be fair

[cinder relic]

Like mage is not that squishy

But mage has to like, actually press stuff preemtively

meanwhile DH isnt "that" tanky, but it has a lot of passive mitigation

[random stirrup]

nah devourer is insanely tanky

[bright lodge]

Ok, 3 sec is tiny, how about 15 current roll, 6 loaded

[cinder relic]

is devourer? havoc isn't

[random stirrup]

it does have a lot of passive mit but it is also tanky

[vivid vessel]

thats the same number wdym

[cinder relic]

Okay wel devourer has no downsides

And it gets a 5% buff every reset

[vivid vessel]

when loaded is 0s left you have 9s on current roll

just reroll last second still no

[bright lodge]

But ar is ready to be used

[random stirrup]

they are buffing its survivability too

[fathom bramble]

both parts definitely play a part

and passive mitigation is usually better than active

as long as you survive something if topped

giga passive reduction makes you always topped and never die

[cinder relic]

I feel like U legit gotta be a chopped chud to be dying in raid as a rogue

To like, literally any mechanic in this raid

[fathom bramble]

you just tick out lol

if feint and cloak don't work

you perish

[cinder relic]

What is even a dog this raid

dot*

[random stirrup]

there are multiple mechanics that are scary on paladins/alleria on which feint does not work

and the obelisk dot on alleria goes through cloak too

you have no way to mitigate it

[cinder relic]

0 rogue fight so I have no experience

[random stirrup]

like this is searing radiance on paladins which is one of the scary moments of the figh

do not look devourer mitigation

[vivid vessel]

this is this thing right

they just have passive 30% dr perma or what

[random stirrup]

like 16% from tattoos and then more passive from hero tree and stuff ye

[vivid vessel]

oh they have 2 charges of blur

1 min cd

[fathom bramble]

searing radiance also pierces cloak

[random stirrup]

ye

[fathom bramble]

you have literally nothing

I was the only one that ever died there

[random stirrup]

it cheated me there too

multiple times

you can not play cheat but then you're playing dodgeball without cheat

idk

[vivid vessel]

oh really

wait what

no way

i was cloaking that on prog

well more like

the overlap

of the big ding ding

at end of radiacne

radiance is big aoe pusle irght

[random stirrup]

i didnt think radiance pierced cloak

[vivid vessel]

that does more and more