you need to keep targetting boss
#outlaw
vivid vessel
yes !
clear tulip
i tried to pad on the post 2nd spinnyboi orbs, should've stayed b oss for boss parse
glass mortar
zac r u ready for builder rules to basically not matter
vivid vessel
i am now excited
glass mortar
tricksters gunna be such a vibe
vivid vessel
and want to be next week
cinder relic
I love that for u twin
glass mortar
no stinky 5 CP optimization
vivid vessel
nuh uh weran
copper radish
Be excited for big buff
Tuning notes tomorrow can’t wait for huge outlaw aura buff
vivid vessel
stop
glass mortar
no 1 CP SS optimization
vivid vessel
i dont think about that
glass mortar
u can just press whatever
vivid vessel
i think about details
glass mortar
it doesnt even matter
vivid vessel
damage
glass mortar
awang was checking it earlier
vivid vessel
i will be high again
glass mortar
its so good
vivid vessel
like tww s2 !
vivid vessel
mayube i even top some keys !
glass mortar
the true vibe hero talent
vivid vessel
huge huge !
clear tulip
vibe raiding our vibe builders
dense forge
clear tulip
vibe raidin
keen belfry
ty lil bro
fathom bramble
if it was very close like less than 5-10 seconds I tended to hold
but I think realistically you can just send on cd
adds don't matter that much with this gear imo
clear tulip
does it hit the voidorbs if we target dragons? or gotta use br on one of the orbs
unkempt iris
Is Solarflare Prism or Ranger-Captain's Iridescent Insignia better?
glass mortar
simit
earnest lantern
ey zac
almost getting 3k io with outlaw, im thinking to reroll to hunter to reach 3400
what do you think
echo tapir
are we healed?
fathom stone
So yoda mentioned something about outlaw possibly getting buffs but I haven’t seen a single thing about it
frank finch
on tuesday sure
indigo token
i already got muted on call for my trial
cinder relic
So yoda mentioned something about outlaw possibly getting buffs but I haven’t se...
big buffs from the new hero talent
indigo token
cause I didnt know I shouldnt talk before the raid, apparantly only the raid leaders can talk
indigo token
big buffs from the new hero talent
you also said we're gonna get less cp
how's that gonna feel
cinder relic
What
indigo token
frank finch
im down for a feels bad big dmg tier
indigo token
well
frank finch
fuk it
indigo token
solo said that
cinder relic
Reminder, we have played tiers with trickster before
Its worse but like, its not like the tier is over 
indigo token
I know
cinder relic
Multiple tiers actually!
frank finch
well it cnt be as bad as suidical ks
cinder relic
Yeah extremely true
I'd say KS feels better than with crackshot
Like, crackshot being gone make KS feel like a better button to press
even if it has its issues still
vivid vessel
Reminder, we have played tiers with trickster before
It wasn't like that before tho
We now have this situation were every single builder gets you to 5 cp
But you aren't allowed to finish at 5
Ss proc is 5 cp
2 ss is 5 cp
Fth is 5 cp
Ace is 5 cp
indigo token
Like, crackshot being gone make KS feel like a better button to press
whys that?
cinder relic
whys that?
I feel like craackshot and KS are just clashing concepts
vivid vessel
ok but vanish was on charges
so it wasnt even an issue
and now you have the exact same issue with not wanting to ks during adr
except neither is on charges
and prep also reset both
so idk
just worse lol
indigo token
I feel like craackshot and KS are just clashing concepts
Maybe its because im not as experienced as you
but I really enjoyed the ebb and flow of, crackshot spam, interspliced with the calm moments of killing spree
it felt really good
cinder relic
Thats what I said in s2 and I got told I was out of touch so idk]
indigo token
well those people are fucking morons
tough trellis
wait please dont tell me we going back to trickster imma piss myself
tough trellis
yes ikr
random island
https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/news/the-most-played-and-best-performing-specs-in-the-raids-dps-logs/ lol fuck outlaw I guess
tough trellis
trickster isn’t so bad but prep too is actually trolling
surely this is just a bad dream
and i dont have to play trickster with KS and prep on tues
at least i can pick between wanting to play KS OR wanting to play prep right
💀
random island
May as well just play Hello Kitty Island Adventure at this point.
cinder relic
wait please dont tell me we going back to trickster imma piss myself
Trickster is v good
tough trellis
i used to play KS i just dont want to play prep with it
tough trellis
its joever
glass mortar
well as of right now it looks like u get to ignore the kspree reset part of prep because kspree is such a bad button
so u got that going for u
tough trellis
maybe i get employed at this rate
glass mortar
tough trellis
mm
glass mortar
also without any apl modifications rn trickster with no killing spree is a 2% dps loss in sims
you'd think that half the tree having talents focusing on it that wouldnt be the case
u wuld be wrong
they did this spell so dirty
daring yoke
with trickster being good next patch, is there any gear changes in haste requirement and trinks?
random island
Good compared to what? Level four?
random island
We've continually been shit on since they took away combat - what are you basing that on? 😂
glass mortar
less resources
infinitly more boring spender rules
but its ok be excited because trickster is strong!
wintry solar
We've continually been shit on since they took away combat - what are you basing...
This is just not true
You suck at this
random island
😂 Suuuure buddy.
craggy barn
combat was the epitome of rogue fantasy
green, yellow, red, revealing strike
whats not to love
huge fantasy
but legion
dark ember
How do we feel about the Ace change
Obviously a buff but wonder if it's enough of a buff to not be a nerf from the talent point taken away elsewhere
random island
Just like the current state of outlaw.
wintry solar
And since
glass mortar
How do we feel about the Ace change
Obviously a buff but wonder if it's enough...
its net buff
probably in the area of 2%
wintry solar
I see what's going on...
random island
A big ass nothing burger with nothing fries and a hopes and dreams milkshake.
cinder relic
with trickster being good next patch, is there any gear changes in haste require...
Unsure
random island
I see what's going on...
You sure you can see past that chunk of brown on yer nose? 😂
glass mortar
same stats as fatebound, maybe a little more haste but that hasnt shown in sims
dark ember
Why is Trickster good next patch? Knock-on effects from Ace?
glass mortar
but hes still messing with the apl
cinder relic
Why is Trickster good next patch? Knock-on effects from Ace?
Cloud cover rework is very very good
dark ember
Oh shit didn't read that
craggy barn
what did outlaw add that combat didnt do??
saber slash? why change the name of the beloved spell sinister strike for saber slash???
even blizzard realized how stupid that was and changed it back
run through? run through what? a sawmill?
miss me with that
brave lagoon
is this too much doomposting
random island
run through? run through what? a sawmill?
Run through on your own because you're not getting invited to any groups.
😂
dark ember
Combat is unc nostalgia-ism. It was such non-flavor. Combat? Combat what- every spec does combat.
craggy barn
rogues dont group with anyone!
we sneak in the shadows and are edgy and play by ourselves
wintry solar
miss me with that
Opportunity? Yeah Opportunity to reroll class
random island
Combat is unc nostalgia-ism. It was such non-flavor. Combat? Combat what- **ever...
Except Outlaw
dark ember
tru
dark ember
I want RTB in the dumpster as much as the next guy but please don't tell me that the class fantasy was better before they gave us the glock. Pistol Shot & BTE is carrying the entire spec
wintry solar
The worst version of outlaw is leagues better than the best combat
wintry solar
I want RTB in the dumpster as much as the next guy but please don't tell me that...
Get off my spec
RtB should be front and center
random island
dark ember
Jackpot doesn't feel as good as Two Pair feels bad.
glass mortar
oh i thought u said 1 buff
2 buff is fine
its boring
but i do agree new jackpot doesnt compare to old
wintry solar
Adequate is what I'd use
glass mortar
and new 1 buff feels as bad as the worst possible 1 buff u could roll with old rtb
thankfully we rarely get it
until tuesday
dark ember
"It's fine... it's boring-"
STOCKHOLME SYNDROME
glass mortar
i'll take boring
wintry solar
It can be both
glass mortar
most things on outlaw that arent fine are actual poop
brave lagoon
I don't even know what the tiers of rtb do, I just know I need >=2
glass mortar
first is SnC second is BS and SnC third is those two + TB fourth is all those plus 10% crit
3 is where u get the maximum gameplay
wintry solar
4 is just dam
random island
The price you pay for garbage DPS*
glass mortar
id say low rolls are lower easily
low rolling as this outlaw feels so garbage and also taxes ur future dps by draining all ur tea
crackshot u broke the loop it sucked until u got back in then it sustained itself again
this outlaw u get stuck in a rut itll literally tax u for the next 5 minutes
it sucks so much
wintry solar
In terms of feeling yeah they're higher
brave lagoon
get a mechanic at the wrong moment -> might as well /sit in the corner
wintry solar
Always have energy+opp chance
glass mortar
on 1 buff i run out of energy after like 30s without extremely good rng
i dont feel that way at all
im impressed they managed to make 1 buff SnC feel just as bad as 1 buff BT last expac
wintry solar
How are y'all running out of energy so quickly?
glass mortar
pressing buttons idk
wintry solar
I guess aoe
glass mortar
1 buff is trash
wintry solar
I'm never on 1 buff so I wouldn't know
glass mortar
probably by design tho
yea u are only ever on 1 buff with mistakes or really bad rng
for any real amount of time anyway
a short 1 buff might sneak in occasionaly on long fights
wintry solar
Regardless, new RtB blows
glass mortar
eh its the most user friendly we've had
random island
If you have energy outside of heroism, you're doing it wrong.
glass mortar
but yea i agree its meh
wintry solar
It has no edge
glass mortar
lost the flavor, still has high variance (might be higher then before the buff stages r worth a ton in aoe)
brave lagoon
user friendly doesn't necessarily mean good tho
glass mortar
sure i agree but user friendly was the goal of this expac so
cinder relic
new rtb = epic
Too many old RTB buffs didn't "do anything"
Like GM, RP, BT, all did nothing
U always get Skull BS now
and most of the time have TB
wintry solar
If you have energy outside of heroism, you're doing it wrong.
Do you play at 9% haste?
What is your deal?
Get off my spec
You're a lesser being
Go
random island
🤣
hollow bloom
Nothing really changed tho, before user friendly changes you play good you get mediocre damage. Now you play good with user friendly changes…you still do mediocre damage.
glass mortar
what changed is RtB rules are piss easy to follow
i mean imo they were pretty simplifed by the end of last expac
but now they are easiest theyve ever been
🤷
random island
You're a lesser being
And you're delusional.
hollow bloom
I just want a skill ceiling back so i can pump dps cause of good play.
glass mortar
skill ceiling is still there but parses def feel more reliant on RtB status then before
altho to be fair, we come from an expac where by the end of the expac the average RtB buff uptime was tremendous
random island
Shit. The spec has to actually be capable of DPS first.
glass mortar
we got so used to having 4+ buffs for a majority of the fight last expac
it normalized it alot, it wasnt that way for most of RtB existence
hollow bloom
MoP combat rogue, i play well, i get good damage. In retail, if i play well, just adequate damage. But maybe im just comparing apples to oranges at this point.
glass mortar
well we are poorly tuned rn
glass mortar
should be mid to upper mid next week
altho again, higher variance
lower lows and higher highs with trickster
brave lagoon
mop was 2012 unc
hollow bloom
You can play MoP now. Im playing with some old australians.
glass mortar
2012 was 10 years ago
wintry solar
hollow bloom
Its easy to compare the two “specs” when i raid with both on the weekly.
But ya apples to oranges.
brave lagoon
I get that yeah, but I feel it's not a fair comparison when they're technically 14 years appart design-wise
dim parrot
Is devourer and warlock still overtuned compared to outlaw even after reset or
hollow bloom
Shouldnt the design have improved?
glass mortar
i mean its not a fair comparison because ur comparing a season when combat was decently tuned to a season (live) where our tuning has been bad
moreso then any design even
wintry solar
All they have in common is adr, restless blades, BF, and br anyway
glass mortar
like yea if ur playing a badly tuned spec itll feel like even if u play really well u do meh damage
wintry solar
I think br idr
hollow bloom
How do you mess up design so badly when you have years to tweak and make it better. Im just so confused about that honestly.
wintry solar
It feels half baked so probably that
glass mortar
i mean our design on live is light years ahead of mop idk what this argument is
but i do agree its a sharp step down from TWW or even DF for me
brave lagoon
ye
glass mortar
dps at the end of the fight =/= design
u are conflating tuning with design
u dont do good damage even when u play good because of poor tuning not because they removed the skill ceiling, if anything i'd say laws skill ceiling is still quite high compared to most specs in the game
cinder relic
If sinister strike did 50m a cast
hollow bloom
In any case. I would like our intern dev to fix it.
cinder relic
It wouldnt be good design, or tuning
wintry solar
u are conflating tuning with design
I hate when I say I like the design of SL outlaw and some mfer says "which season".
cinder relic
Tuning and design are different things though
candid abyss
im ready for another auto attack buff
wintry solar
Tuning and design are different things though
That's exactly what I'm saying
cinder relic
Like outlaw was OP tuning wise in BFA
but then SL was very similar design
But wasn't as broken lol
wintry solar
We became capped and didn't have wits
L transition tbh
I hope whatever they add next expansion is worth the wait. Though whatever is considered "worth the wait" is subjective.
brave lagoon
already lost hope all the way to the next expac I see 
wintry solar
Naw
hollow bloom
Season 1 honeymoon period is over, back to waiting for the next big thing.
frail veldt
i have ads back on twitch
Dat sucks lol maybe my install instructions didn't work
You sure the script is running
I'll ask my buddy who helped me set it up if he has the original guide
vivid vessel
nah its fine i guess but
i got one of those embeded adds
you know
the ones that shows on the side of the stream
at first i thought these type of new ads were good cause less intrusive
but they appear to be super bugged
and they stay forever until you rerload
very good !
dim parrot
Rogue gonna have a bad LFG experience until raid buff rework / get lust or both
Or overtuned
wide shore
yo any tips on solo killing this stupid ?? Nullaeus purple goop boss
260ilvl, need to sweat hard to get to under 25% and eventually I just get smacked to oblivion
am I just bad
brave lagoon
pretty sure even at 270+ the last 25% is extra spicy
cinder relic
yo any tips on solo killing this stupid ?? Nullaeus purple goop boss
260ilvl, ne...
need valera levels
If u dont
wide shore
D:
half the fight I'm pretty sure I'm like 0.5 seconds away from death
Valeera is like lvl 25 or something
cinder relic
Go elusiveness, actually press feint + vial
frail veldt
Can check the GitHub see if there's an update
wide shore
Go elusiveness, actually press feint + vial
yeah I'm basically perma feint + vialing
cinder relic
Make sure to keep stacks of the alleria thing
wide shore
Make sure to keep stacks of the alleria thing
alleria thing?
cinder relic
vallera
Like
THe healing vials
She drops the little health globes
They stack up to 3 times
make sure to always have 3
wintry solar
The hearts?
cinder relic
U have to stagger pick them up
cinder relic
They stack up to 3 times
oak furnace
its a heal over time
cinder relic
and if u stagger them u can maintain 3 stacks
wintry solar
I thought it was just 3 separate heals
vivid vessel
wintry solar
Oh I didn't know that
wintry solar
1 tops me off and I never need the 2nd or 3rd so I save them for when I need them
quaint mauve
who else cried tears of joy when they saw aoe blind is back
vivid vessel
legit dont think i even care
wintry solar
Me either
vivid vessel
i like having gouge
wintry solar
Should've never left in the first place
vivid vessel
- blind
vivid vessel
rogue would be goated if you had 20s blind, 20s gouge, no cp kidney
craggy barn
aoe blind just lets me be lazy
vivid vessel
so you just are king of st stops !
wintry solar
Yeah also I like gouge
craggy barn
with how nameplates are, kinda over pure st stops
aoe blind just lets me ignore that shit
wintry solar
so you just are king of st stops !
Brute forcing ST CC meta 
cinder relic
i thought it was just a big heala
Its both
wintry solar
Also I like the CP gen from gouge. It's not a lot obv but it's nice.
craggy barn
kidney should refund cps
dim parrot
Zac do we still get gapped by arms next week
cinder relic
Arms is OP rn
vivid vessel
well
craggy barn
kick should gen cp
cinder relic
It might be getting a nerf
vivid vessel
i looked at my overall
cinder relic
I havent kept up with warrior changes
vivid vessel
and if i were to be doing 15% more overall
cinder relic
I know fury is getting clapped
craggy barn
make all kicks give some resource
wintry solar
kick should gen cp
Kick should gen energy
craggy barn
that
quaint mauve
I know fury is getting clapped
i thought fury sucked
craggy barn
fury is dec on some fights
vivid vessel
i think nox tops his keys as fury
dim parrot
i would still be gapped
Figured
craggy barn
isnt wox group fury war
vivid vessel
ye thats what i said cuh
cinder relic
i thought fury sucked
Fury is solid
craggy barn
or same guy
cinder relic
kinda just presses shit, does dmg
craggy barn
sadge
cinder relic
Just no burst
wide coral
its like a 50sec cd
frail veldt
Hey at least it scales in big packs
cinder relic
They are still worthless on big packs cuz they dont have a CD
outer meteor
do u guys usually get 3 ars on aa first pull?
or does it die as the 3rd one comes off cd
wide coral
I think I did 1 AA the whole season
frail veldt
They are still worthless on big packs cuz they dont have a CD
not as worthless as outlaw
cinder relic
Not everything is a victim competition
random island
Of course not... Outlaw doesn't leave victims.. only puddles of its' own blood.
indigo token
Made it to P2 L'ura
vivid vessel
before failing your trial?
wintry solar
Call the press
keen belfry
bbench opress
reef void
!ui
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc:
Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent
gaunt phoenix
Not everything is a victim competition
Truke
wintry solar
My body is a machine that turns patch notes into complaints
fickle relic
Trickster being ahead of fatebound by whopping >10% sounds so good, that they might probably nerf it on the next day
craggy barn
sadge im not pushing as law rn
pastel pendant
Should I level my outlaw rogue
What’s the general consensus here is it fun at max level
And fully geared
native tinsel
anything u guys using specific for rtb?
halcyon chasm
hasty wolf
how do you feel about this. I don't really like it. I don't like it seems like you are forced to spend two point where currently you can spend 1 point and get 5% chance per combo point. is it better just to spec in acrobatic strikes and crackshot then just skip ace up your sleeve
interested in your opinions
i feel like the BTE buff is kind of crucial though
hasty wolf
lol
gaunt phoenix
you need x points before the 3rd to last row
or it wont let you go further
so 2 ace kinda only competes with sleight of hand and heavy hitter
2 ace is quite good and worth taking
but it is true it is a nerf at 1 point
wintry solar
Pve talent plz ty
livid smelt
I think hes saying he wants new pvp talents XD
loud moat
With the Tricksters energy problems, are we looking at going with Berserker for weapon enchant or is it too erratic to actually bring value?
livid smelt
does trickster have worse energy issues then fatebound?
loud moat
Yes.
hollow bloom
Stacking all the haste
wintry solar
I think hes saying he wants new pvp talents XD
Boarding Party a pve talent plus new pvp talents? You're a genius sir.
I wasn't even thinking of new pvp talents lol
fossil lintel
Wait we're playing trickster next week?
Goddamn
I thought we had at least one season without fucking KS
jolly geyser
hollow bloom
fossil lintel
At least my bear friend will be delighted by perma tricks
slim iris
At least my bear friend will be delighted by perma tricks
I can just imagine how much fun he’s having tanking with a bear
daring yoke
i wonder with trickster energy issues, is it really still >10%?
jolly geyser
In sims that is
gaunt phoenix
Yes
fossil lintel
Will we want more haste with trickster?
fossil lintel
I'm at 23 using crit flask
gaunt phoenix
it looks like not significantly past 25%
my 24% still does not like haste flask, though it is close
but on specifically vanguard and dragons i would haste flask
fossil lintel
That's with trickster?
gaunt phoenix
it would be like calling crackshot a cd spec
AR is stronger but the strength is uptime
river wing
uptime is what makes or breaks it
if you AR once every 90 seconds, it's laughable
if you can actually AR every 30-40 seconds, that's way different
it's not like TWW Sub where you could realistically take a 5 second break outside of CDs and nobody would notice
fossil lintel
We ar every 40-45s
frail veldt
I think its 35 actually
wintry solar
We drop sleight and what, 1 SD?
daring yoke
guys, what is the correct answer to this
wintry solar
Yes
river wing
guys, what is the correct answer to this
lime lake
I just want you to know i read your name as dryhump at first
shy sandal
is there a way to get a trinket reminder now?
gaunt phoenix
I use m33kaura for trinket
tropic zephyr
is it hard to get the outlaw hidden artifact?
i remember doing it in SL, probably a few hours to get all the colors
tropic zephyr
shy sandal
im calling the police
only way i can track trinkets is m33kauras or is there some other addon that can do ity
gaunt phoenix
Bettercdm can do it
but if you used weakauras for trinkets before
If you install m33k they are probably still there
shy sandal
wont there be like a bilion errors
tropic zephyr
I use bettercdm to have the trinket icons on top of my unit frame
vivid vessel
Items cds aren't secret
tropic zephyr
yeah I guess you could even have sound triggers?
vivid vessel
Ye
tropic zephyr
btw I kinda miss the auras that called out everything in a dungeon
"dodge", "frontal" etc
are these ded?
shy sandal
yup i think so
hot olive
btw I kinda miss the auras that called out everything in a dungeon
im pretty sure kiratank had thing like that
tropic zephyr
ok, maybe i'll check out his thing
daring yoke
I just want you to know i read your name as dryhump at first
that was the original intention back then, but trying to make it less r18
shy sandal
pfff
noble moon
i died last night bc there were 2 casts happening and in the pack i literally couldnt see who they were on so i didnt vnaish and got blasted
bring back the "you've been targeted" weakauras ty
stable sigil
How strong is trickster going to be compared to fatebound for bosses where you have to move permanently? Like Salhadaar. Still better assuming you never can sit in smoke for the whole duration?
unkempt dew
I feel some outlaw nerfs coming
tulip gate
God please no
long barn
Can two tricksters rogues use each others cloud?
tropic zephyr
How strong is trickster going to be compared to fatebound for bosses where you h...
The smoke gives you the damage buff for 10s, so if you have to you can just grapple to refresh the buff before the cloud fades
grapple is off GCD btw
and the cloud is an insane buff to have on damage amp
so
trickster is especially good on salad
vivid vessel
Can two tricksters rogues use each others cloud?
craggy barn
when they inevitably change how fartcloud is tuned between law and sub, imagine needing the other spec to do more cloud damage
like 2 rogs
pepw
patent mirage
sub rogue : hey pop your ar fart so i can do dmg
wintry solar
fARt
summer nimbus
yo for running prep in m+ whats the best way to use it? Save it for damage amps and hard packs?
or is it better to use off cd
sturdy tartan
So the cloud is looking good so far ?
craggy barn
use it like ur a cd class
tropic zephyr
yo for running prep in m+ whats the best way to use it? Save it for damage amps ...
The first one you always use when BtE is off CD
Then I always use it right after using AR, looking to get a "burst window" of two AR back to back
in NPX you usually get it back for first boss, in AA you usually get it back for big wind mini boss after 1st boss
things like that
craggy barn
its a flat cd so u can plan ur uses ahead of time
summer nimbus
ye, going up key levels and tnaks doing different pull routes makes it akward to plan tho
craggy barn
if ur close to a boss just hold it imo
tropic zephyr
yeah sometimes you get a shit use, also in low keys you just can't use it on packs
nothing lasts for 2 AR length
craggy barn
ye
depends on ur conp too
lile if ur with a giga aoe burst guy
u could hold on certain packs
just depends on how long shit lives
karmic gust
big packs and bosses that usually take a long time to kill personally
craggy barn
for bosses if theres a dam amp u can hold for it
hasty warren
hi pitates
karmic gust
ppl start fighting with huge burst you're behind and once they have nothing you pass them
like the refueling phase of the MT boss or the last SEAT boss, I save it for those moments on these bosses
so I know I can do as much as I can within that time frame
plus boss ain't moving you're guaranteed to have max uptime
craggy barn
yuh
cant go wrong treating it like how cd classes treat their cds
if u know u only get 1 use out of it in a fight
karmic gust
imagine if it was affected by the spent cp cdr passive
summer nimbus
i did not play outlaw rogue to plan!
karmic gust
u have nothing and enemy too long to kill -> press
might be better if you dont want to plan lol
craggy barn
u have nothing going into a pack, might as well press
summer nimbus
yea the main consideration i had tbh was should i press it when my resources are pretty high or save it for some bad luck protection
karmic gust
i don't feel like there's a wrong way to use it unless you press it at the end of a fight it's almost always a good use
summer nimbus
cuz i still ahve times where i am low energy with no tea and i want to kms
karmic gust
if the pack is still very high hp there's no problem with using it
otherwise it's kinda wasted
tropic zephyr
yea the main consideration i had tbh was should i press it when my resources are...
idk if it's a rule, but I'd say that you should save it for 2 AR back to back
so never when AR is like 1:30 seconds CD still and you're dry
normal garnet
Yo i kinda have a problem with energy management. Is there a small tip to that. As example I sometimes run hardly low after somewhat 2mins fights
karmic gust
are you overcapping or not using kir properly and getting the 1 stage roll often ?
tropic zephyr
Yo i kinda have a problem with energy management. Is there a small tip to that. ...
energy can be rough sometimes and it's expected that we sometimes struggle to even press our builders
playing as perfect as possible mitigates this
karmic gust
very long fights it's almost unavoidable
normal garnet
Would need to take a look where it especially happens
karmic gust
stage 1 roll will take everything away from you
avoid it
you're allowed to kir a stage 2 roll out of pure fear
normal garnet
I sometimes had it for sure but I mostly press it if I have like no buff up and AR is still 1min on cd.
So I just Roll the bones
tropic zephyr
I mean, the rule is clear: you SHOULD do a stage 2 KiR if your next roll is not going to be LD
Which is when you don't have LD and AR > 90s CD
karmic gust
i just don't and get jackpot anyway 
tropic zephyr
gamba
karmic gust
gamba wins more than me
hollow bloom
Come next week, we gonna be a bunch of smokers
hollow bloom
Yucky
normal garnet
I’m getting depressed playing Sub or Sin
karmic gust
they do be boring ye
normal garnet
Especially sub
karmic gust
2 buttons aoe rotation ain't my thing
hollow bloom
One step closer to homogenized dps classes
normal garnet
I rather lvl up my Paladin just to delete him right away
river wing
god I hate what they've done to Sin
karmic gust
they somehow made it even more for boomers than before
normal garnet
You been spreading bleeds with 1 button?
Just to see how everything died before having your bleeds ups for 1sec
karmic gust
knew a guy in my previous guild who wouldn't want to play another spec bc they had too many buttons to press
normal garnet
river wing
Sin is the epitome of "whoever does Rogue is VERY afraid of Rogue flowing well"
for Midnight specifically
normal garnet
Just give me back almost infinite AR
karmic gust
make number go up is ez balance
that's what most games do
budget isn't in the balance team
too much money to actually change the classes
karmic gust
if u want to fart everywhere for 13% more dmg sure
it's more cringe to play since you have to play around it
river wing
Isn’t our energy managment even worse then ?
yes.
hollow bloom
Embrace the cringe
karmic gust
the dmg increase is so significant that it's almost a crime not to play it but good lord does this look unfun
normal garnet
Could be worse I guess
rustic lotus
oh yah theres the smoke cloud mechanic huh
normal garnet
Imagine old KS
rustic lotus
yah i was there for old KS too that shit was cringe as well
karmic gust
old ks killed me so much i switched to sub 
tropic zephyr
yea the main consideration i had tbh was should i press it when my resources are...
I looked at the sim and the rule it follows is to send Prep when AR has >30s CD, BtE is on CD, KS is on CD (for next week)
karmic gust
30 ?
tropic zephyr
actions.cds+=/preparation,if=cooldown.adrenaline_rush.remains>30&!cooldown.between_the_eyes.ready&(!cooldown.killing_spree.ready|!hero_tree.trickster)|fight_remains<30
river wing
I looked at the sim and the rule it follows is to send Prep when AR has >30s CD,...
huh okay
karmic gust
that's like a few seconds of building and spending would be a waste no ?
rustic lotus
I remember using Killing spree in Dawnbreaker and falling throught the ship and dying atleast 3 times adungeon kek
tropic zephyr
that's like a few seconds of building and spending would be a waste no ?
if it was 30s out I would def hold
idk
vibe it out
rustic lotus
just give us back extendo arm attack range
Roll it into 5 roll or something idc. just give it back to us
static crescent
Is there still like an assumption how to do the prep+killing spree? Is it gonna be AR+bte until out of resets+killing spree+dispatch+prep+ar+bte until out of resets+killing spree or what is the assumption
inland acorn
Not yet, Solo still cooking i think
static crescent
Hope it doesnt end up being super stupid stuff, but killing spree when i slapped dummies around felt like its hitting like a wet noodle
unkempt dew
I just want KS to be a great AOE skill
static crescent
If they would tune KS now, they would have to tune something else down
noway they are doing that
wintry solar
The duration is 20s to give you 5s of KS
unkempt dew
Let it do little less damage beyond 5 targets or something. Because if a bullet pierce something the strenght also goes a bit lower right
static crescent
I think killing spree is just hitting random individual mobs isnt it
wintry solar
Yeah
rustic lotus
Don’t understand why it’s not just A single target ability. We just blast one thing then the bullets cleave. Keep the animation is have it work mechanically like that. Also give us a ton of avoidance while we do it cuz we dancin’
river wing
Don’t understand why it’s not just A single target ability. We just blast one th...
who do you think we are to get this sort of treatment, DKs?
jagged plover
idk how dks just walked out of pruning with the same defensives they had when pretty much everyone else got astro fucked
edgy owl
Hi, is the stat part of the wowhead guide up to date? I see that people are valuing versa on Outlaw
river wing
idk how dks just walked out of pruning with the same defensives they had when pr...
tank spec privilege (can't delete fortitude or AMS) plus a shitload of passives nobody looked at
wintry solar
Blizz also said them being super tanky is intentional
So comparing to dps dk is setting yourself up for failure
river wing
Blizz also said them being super tanky is intentional
I wonder what the intention is for Rogue
like legit
what's their point then
jagged plover
cuck chair
jagged plover
DK also have the meme of them being required on every hard fight because blizz love spawning adds you need to grip 
river wing
buh-buh-but grip is not utility!!!111
jagged plover
it's so funny we have a conditional raid buff
even that we're not allowed to have power parity with other classes
jagged plover
sometimes i think it's all an elaborate joke
jagged plover
"how much can we subtly fuck rogues until they just give up playing entirely"
wintry solar
Every other time they pruned they took util and raid buffs with it but they didn't do that this time for some reason
dreamy pecan
And the funnier thing is, no one even takes that in PvP.
lusty night
wintry solar
And the funnier thing is, no one even takes that in PvP.
I take it into mages and hunters
Unpeelable 
wintry solar
I take that into locks for the classic lock port
rustic lotus
I think AoE blind is a good step in the right direction. Don’t know why they took that away. I personally miss having vanish on restless blades. Boarding Party and the old Drink up, Me Hearties would be cool to have. Imagine passing out grog lmao.
The most unique util rogue has is shroud and that has only gotten less and less useful with each expansion.
weary goblet
Bribe 
rustic lotus
That was MC right?
wintry solar
Kind of, control undead but for humanoids
rustic lotus
That’s cool.
rustic lotus
I understand why Restless crew didn’t get through. But man. Another lockrock class would be sick. Passing out crimson vials from an race specific keg would be cool.
Also wasn’t faze unintentionally working as a raid buff too? Or something like that
viral tusk
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
inland acorn
Hi, is the stat part of the wowhead guide up to date? I see that people are valu...
!stats
ornate heathBOT
Outlaw's stat prio is generally Crit > Haste* > Vers >= Mastery.
- You need ~21-23% haste for energy, this has priority over crit. That's the haste on your stat page after talents/buffs/flask.
- Crit is then your best stat until you approach ~40%, from there random vers or mastery pieces will be similar.
- You have to use
Raidbots Top Gear to determine the exact combination of pieces to use.
weary goblet
I understand why Restless crew didn’t get through. But man. Another lockrock cla...
That is/was a thing for pvp, right?
We already had a raid buff
Swiftblade's Cunning
+5% Haste and +5% Multistrike
rustic lotus
Yah we had lockrocks for PvP.
Restless crew was party wide Restless Blades that obviously didn’t make it to live. And I remember Faze from trickster buffing everyone’s damage not just ours or something as a big
Bug
dreamy pecan
Restless crew was party wide Restless Blades that obviously didn’t make it to li...
Without knowing the context, that sounds insane.
Restless Crew I mean.
dreamy pecan
Other specs just straight up wouldn't be allowed. 
dreamy pecan
"get the fuck off ass/sub and stop trolling, swap to outlaw"
weary goblet
And for a lot would've just wait it out
jagged plover
*"get the fuck off ass/sub and stop trolling, swap to outlaw"*
lines you will literally never hear
weary goblet
Which kinda made it worthless
timid portal
jagged plover
would have gone crazy in m+ though
wintry solar
Other specs just straight up wouldn't be allowed. <:Smug_Doge:128784780172788121...
The dream for assa/sub to be obscure
And outlaw perma wears the crown
dreamy pecan
ngl, I do enjoy my hipster points for being the niche spec though. 
rustic lotus
My friends called me an outlaw autist the other day. Since I do good damage and they believe the spec is supposed to do negative damage cuz of spec doomsayers.
rustic lotus
It's also something nobody wanted
Yah something they could’ve done is like “swear in” another party member as an honorary ‘Swabbie’ or ‘first mate’ and made it so only they benefitted from restless crew. That way you can just like give it to the tank or healer cuz they don’t really line up trinkets yah?
weary goblet
I still think the CDR thing is bad (as buff to others)
rustic lotus
Yah flavor wise it is cool but I can see where it would be a nightmare
Prolly not worth the headache
weary goblet
The only times it made sense was stuff like Nighthold CoF for fury warr and Assa rogue
Because it made Vendetta line up with KB
And again, that was a trinket you chose, not forced from someone else
rustic lotus
It could also just do something different like maybe they benefit from a weakened ADR or they benefit from your feint and cloak. Kinda just roll “Boarding Party” Gimmick into it.
Or hell. Maybe if ur trickster they benefit from your Fazed and if ur fstebound they roll coins too lmao
Restless crew could’ve been anything team oriented and I’m sure they brainstormed all these ideas and just went “God all these ideas are cool but I don’t wanna balance this shit”
Which is fair
I just wanna be picked for dungeons. My tank recently got a job. So now I’m either waiting for for a tank for my own key or waiting for someone to finally pick me
shut matrix
this is why I’ve been running with newer tanks a lot recently... which often also means lower target counts, downtime from area denial or awkward positioning, and RTB dropping between pulls. I’m wondering whether the usual build is still the right default here, or if there’s a case for leaning further into ST. Sims say no, but I’m not convinced the profile really matches these situations.
weary goblet
This is absolutely wishful thinking, but I hope eventually we have some version of MDT ingame, where you can make the routes yourself, and it will highlight the mobs you've selected during the key.
timid idol
i like ks
balmy topaz
timid portal
crimson scarab
Do you guys think trickster will be better than fate bound with the new change?
blissful idol
Outlaw!!!!
quiet root
Outlaw!!!!
you have been removed from the group
brave lagoon
I think AoE blind is a good step in the right direction. Don’t know why they too...
Boarding and drink up are too pirate themed for those to be eligible for outlaw. We cowboys now /s
blissful idol
you have been removed from the group
Promoted
brave lagoon
Man I miss these shit
All we're missing now are some spurs on our leather boots and outlaw will be fixed
harsh cape
Lowkey excited for next week to revive my alt Outlaw. Its been such a letdown to not be able to play KS after such a long wait for it to get reworked
fervent gate
In light of the recent changes, have an AI slop meme my friend made for me
harsh cape
BTW my post from 2024 before KS rework.
brave lagoon
Id pick old Russian roulette KS over current iteration lmao
frail veldt
BTW my post from 2024 before KS rework.
Yeah a lot of people suggested reaper ult
We never thought they'd somehow make it suck still
Impressive work from their end
livid kindle
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tropic zephyr
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1493009002479751168/im...
can't blame him, I wouldn't take random law for beloren 1 phase
tropic zephyr
im gonna make a script to post on the blizz forums everytime my energy regen takes more than a gcd for me to press a button
livid pewter
sure u can, but why would you go KS unless u play trickster?
daring venture
hey guys do u have a macro to put automatically the aggro on the tank with Tricks of the trade ?
tropic zephyr
!ui
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
- ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
- WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
- MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
- Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc: - Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
- WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
- Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent
frank hamlet
!trick
tropic zephyr
!tricks
ornate heathBOT
daring venture
damn ty boys didn't know that
willow narwhal
Guys is Outlaw really getting a strong buff, or is it just a joke? Can´t tell :/
mystic berry
its worse
granite merlin
Woof why is outlaw one of the most duying class specs in raid
mystic berry
much worse
granite merlin
lol we went from top to bottom
mystic berry
you will play ks
mystic berry
cant wait to build at 5 again
brave lagoon
Build to 5but never finish to 5 because
sullen glen
sure u can, but why would you go KS unless u play trickster?
i only played the suggested build although on murlock they played different build i guess i should keep the one in screenshot ?
or are situational
livid pewter
i only played the suggested build although on murlock they played different buil...
ye, just stay with that build u sent
till 12.0.5 :3
crimson scarab
But on reset its very good
will it be better than fatebound?
gleaming reef
will it be better than fatebound?
Yes
long barn
Read the pin
jagged plover
by a lot
jagged plover
many such cases
crimson scarab
oh shit i missed the pin, thanks a lot for the info
frail veldt
Wait hold up are we losing prep on Tues in the trickster m+ build?
placid ocean
Doubtful
radiant wyvern
you will play ks
dim parrot
Idk what we dropping to have both prep and KS
harsh cape
You could still play fatebound and not be buffed nor nerfed..
limpid sky
the dr from fazed doesn't stack inside cloud cover tho does it?
jagged plover
mystic berry
You could still play fatebound and not be buffed nor nerfed..
stay away you ks lover
mystic berry
What are we dropping for prep
2 summarily dispatched?
harsh cape
stay away you ks lover
Move over, it our time under the sun now
frail veldt
2 summarily dispatched? <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
We already drop that for ks
limpid sky
wait this is nice !
mystic berry
We already drop that for ks
we drop 1 for prep, another for ks
crude flower
That's gona feel awful on energy haha
So
outlaw is the 2nd class where blizzard seem to be bent on making it less fun this reset
haha
hazy temple
Am I the only one who utterly dislikes prep?
mystic berry
outlaw can never be good because it dont have cds
mystic berry
Am I the only one who utterly dislikes prep?
I hate it
Shitty ass button that should be off gcd at a bare min
But I use it
harsh cape
Any chance Audacity can sneak in the m+ build?
hazy temple
Even when I see people running it I put two points into SD or the better roll one
placid ocean
Am I the only one who utterly dislikes prep?
No
limpid sky
prep not being affected by adr's gcd is kinda annoying but always having adr for damage amps is nice qol
main abyss
i just want prep to be two charges to the abilities instead
errant fractal
i just want prep to be two charges to the abilities instead
holy get this mf a job at blizzard
mystic berry
i just want prep to be two charges to the abilities instead
your wish is granted, we are now making it a 2 point talent, each point is 1 charge
errant fractal
your wish is granted, we are now making it a 2 point talent, each point is 1 cha...
tbh better that than the extra button that feels like ass lmfao
magic shuttle
errant fractal
imagine if KS was also not cancelable
u could just use finishers/builders in it
kinda like soothing mist or w.e
fervent garden
i've been avoiding prep all season. i guess i need to re-assess
brave lagoon
Pistol whip a bte during KS 
red zinc
imagine if KS was also not cancelable
got flashbacks from this message
errant fractal
got flashbacks from this message
I'm affraid I'm not up to date
errant fractal
okay no like the "sperg out" ks can stay gone
but this reaper ult ks could easily just be an animation that happens in the background while we continue our rotation
wintry solar
still matrix
What are we dropping for prep
sleight of hand i think
and you take deadly pursuit over summarily dispatched
snow hill
old ks wasnt cancelable
It was honestly fucked.
latent oak
i loved old ks and im tired of pretending i didnt
wintry solar
and you take deadly pursuit over summarily dispatched
DP is optional now
still matrix
i loved old ks and im tired of pretending i didnt
na ur a crackhead
latent oak
running triple outlaw keys that season was so sick with 3 pirates tping around the pack
wintry solar
As per pins, unless something changes come reset
jovial dome
i loved old ks and im tired of pretending i didnt
I’m with ya! Bring it back!
still matrix
DP is optional now
I think solo showed both in the new patch sims and it was ahead so may as well keep it idk
or guy i cant remember
someone
inland acorn
This talent does so little, it might just not exist
But if trickster is on menu and you proc it by chance during KS I guess it's value goes up slightly 
errant fractal
i loved old ks and im tired of pretending i didnt
I liked it too but only cos I didn't play outlaw regularly/in real content, I imagine it gets old fast
latent oak
i was doing keys upto 17-18s ish
and it was annoying on some fights, but idk the fun made up for it
like watching zac that season, he still managed to press it on cd without dying even on the most aids fights
jovial dome
I always loved the animation. Made me feel like a ninja slicing and dicing mobs up
proven surge
What kind of curse is this
Trickster back on board?
GGs
Blizzard doing some Monkey Paw type shi
modest scarab
So what are the outlaw changes coming this reset? Reading the chat makes it seem like we are getting major buffs but haven’t seen anything.
jovial dome
Check pins for a full description
earnest sphinx
snow vessel
So what are the outlaw changes coming this reset? Reading the chat makes it seem...
New talent is a large gain for outlaw especially
clear tulip
earnest sphinx
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1255110288081162311/1374365469884289034/K...
jovial dome
Sounds to me like a skill issue <_<
crimson scarab
ah good old times
fervent garden
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1255110288081162311/1374365469884289034/K...
HEH. thats the KS i remember.
clear tulip
The best KS was timing it with mugzees finger guns and giving the raid a heart attack
keen belfry
karmic gust
just read about the new m+ reward system it's so cool
latent oak
The best KS was timing it with mugzees finger guns and giving the raid a heart a...
same with rik reverb frontal lmao
latent oak
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1048716096217284653/1464342131429871676/k...
do u send a random 1cp snd on the way down lmaoo
keen belfry
Farming back
errant fractal
Killing spree more like killing pee
weary goblet
Killing spree more like killing pee
Do you mean actively killing pee, or pee that kills?
fossil lintel
Please tell me it's correct to cancel KS at 7 cp right now, I don't think I can play this shit otherwise
vivid vessel
Please tell me it's correct to cancel KS at 7 cp right now, I don't think I can ...
prolly correct to cancel it at 1 cp bud
dw about it
it will be fine
vivid vessel
6
fossil lintel
Fuck
jagged plover
vivid vessel
there is no 5 cp rule for trickster
because there is no coins proccing at 5
tiping the balance
fossil lintel
Fatebound is so much nicer
vivid vessel
truth is current outlaw should have 6cp max
not 7
and it would be fine gameplay
but we are stuck at 7
so it sucks
fossil lintel
Just always go to max cp?
vivid vessel
ss procced gets you to 5cp
ss ss gets you to 5cp
fth gets you to 5cp
ace gets you to 5cp
i dont really see a reason why we have 2 more cps we then need to build '
to waste litteraly 2 cp every builder basically
after getting to 5
its cringe
wouldnt have the issue if we had 6cp max
fossil lintel
Oh you meant 5 not 6
vivid vessel
i mean 6
fossil lintel
Why 6 if everything takes you to 5?
cinder abyss
I never quite understood why when they reworked killing spree, they didnt make channel time affected by haste -_-
vivid vessel
if you get 2 ruthlessness your builders would get you to 6cp
vivid vessel
I never quite understood why when they reworked killing spree, they didnt make c...
its affected by haste lil bro
fossil lintel
I never quite understood why when they reworked killing spree, they didnt make c...
It is affected by haste
cinder abyss
Really??? It seems to last forever...
vivid vessel
i know right