outlaw

[still matrix]

Fuck!

Ok

Man this is poo, do you guys also think its poo.

[cinder relic]

You will play ks and you will like it

[still matrix]

Poo!

[cinder relic]

I love ks so I'm excited

[still matrix]

Atleast they changed ks

I can't see pins on mobile desktop... I'll await it i guess.

[wintry solar]

Lol

I'd even say haha

[still matrix]

Last xpac I mean

Like its not as bad as before but still bad

@cinder relic is there already a build on wowhead or pinned you can link so we can start practicing with new rules

[cinder relic]

It's probs gonna be diffy

There will be a pin soonish

[still matrix]

Cool

I hate that you like KS btw. Like im happy for you. But I also hate you. K bye have a nice day.

[cinder relic]

LOLOL

[wintry solar]

I hate seeing KS glazers win for some reason, yeah.

Red dorito vs Blue dorito thing

Knowers know

[cinder relic]

Notice how I keep winning?

Just gotta join me

https://tenor.com/view/warwithin-wow-warcraft-worldofwarcraft-alleria-gif-3149405532051199499

[hearty socket]

Is there a way to automate tricks cast on tank?

[hollow temple]

!tot

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[hearty socket]

Thank you

[wintry solar]

They warned me the devil would be attractive

[junior folio]

I can't believe I've been copying people's names and editing macros when this automated it

[wintry solar]

I do it manually

Cuz I'm not a BITCH

RAHHHH

[fair topaz]

guys do i take the crit/vers mace from my vault or does trickster need more haste than fb and i'm trolling getting a piece without haste?

[proven ocean]

Try !notricks

[hollow temple]

you're bypassing the filter on that word

[proven ocean]

React kekw if notrickz is noob

[hollow temple]

[hollow temple]

self reacting is cringe bro

[proven ocean]

Gotten

Gottem

Ye thats the whole point of it

[hollow temple]

@hardy wigeon the patch notes are on wowhead

[wintry solar]

I have a super secret work around teehee

[proven ocean]

Popo is vrgl 2.0

[wintry solar]

What happened to that guy

[hollow temple]

banned 2.0

[wintry solar]

Wow

[proven ocean]

Long weekend this weekend

3 days

[wintry solar]

You think you know a guy

[proven ocean]

If i dont get a scythe kit

Idk what to say

[wintry solar]

How about "I didn't get the scythe kit"

[proven ocean]

If i get a 3rd scythe split before scythe kit ima crash out

[hollow temple]

it took ingus like 1300 kc

or something insane

[final willow]

With the coming trickster change, will our cp generators outperform our spenders during ar?

I have some cursed ideas

[proven ocean]

?

For a SCYTHE KIT?

KIT

?

Any of the 2?

[hollow temple]

naw for the sanguine kit specifically

i think he got like 3-4 holy kits or somethin

or wait

maybe it was a pet item

[hollow temple]

yea naw it was the sanguine dust for transmogging the pet nvm

[wintry solar]

Transmog the pet?

You're speaking in hieroglyphs

[plush cloak]

what 2 embelishments are bis on outlaw?

[hollow temple]

#outlaw-faq and wowhead have all that type of info

[plush cloak]

oh okay ty

[hollow temple]

Talking about diff game

[wintry solar]

There are games other than WoW?

[proven ocean]

What

Even that sounds crazy

He should get 13 on rate

[hollow temple]

I think the pet thing is 1/275

[proven ocean]

300

[hollow temple]

Idk

[proven ocean]

Nvm

275

Ya 275

Ngl idc about dust cuz me no pet

But ye idm getting it

Oh pet is 1/500 hmt

So im prob gonna get 2 dusts before pet

@hollow temple holy scy > blorva scy

Call me nuts

Im mvping most of my hmt’s now

Too ez

[gaunt palm]

If you are in this situation:

• at 6 or 7 CP
• BTE off cd
• Adr JUST came off cd while building

Do you send BTE as the rule states, or send dispatch into ADR+BTE?

I get the optimization of holding BTE for upcoming ADR, but in this situation, sending evis first, would mean that I lose RB on ADR, in turn of getting potentially 2x Supercharged BTE, rather than only 1 Guaranteed

[serene urchin]

https://klipy.com/gifs/cat-67

uhh i think u dispatch adr bte

[noble moon]

ye dispatch first into adr bte because you want the boosted bte for the damage and the increased chance to reset, 2x bte boost is better than 1 and is more efficient total cp usage

[gaunt palm]

Ye thats what I've been doing, but its against the guide. And I'm not sure if losing 7s of RB on ADR is > or < value than a **potential **extra supercharged bte

But it happens more often than you would think when playing with prep aswell

[noble moon]

ill be honest im feelycraft i just be spouting shit

@sacred rune @gaunt phoenix can you give a real answer ty

[gaunt phoenix]

You dispatch AR bte

[wintry solar]

What about snd, open with cheap, and then prio?

Real question btw

Opener ofc

[gaunt palm]

So if wasting 7s of RB is worth holding ADR for, would it then not also be worth in general to hold ADR for an upcoming BTE if less than x seconds? Or would you never be in that situation if following the Holding BTE rule?

[gaunt phoenix]

If BtE is ahead of AR by 1 finisher then i will do it

But it's not an official/sim proven rule

[gaunt palm]

I see, thanks

[radiant kelp]

lads quick question

if i want to have both my weapons as crafted

for emblish what should i use

[weary goblet]

You are limited to two, which are most likely hunt and arcanoweave.

You can't have arcanoweave on weap afaik

So one hunt on weap, one without embellishment

[radiant kelp]

so technically the other one can be on a ring or something

[weary goblet]

Afaik arcanoweave needs to be on armor piece (boot/wrist/belt/cloak etc)

[gaunt phoenix]

Trickster and 12.0.5

So the new Cloud Cover on PTR is very strong: initial sims are pointing towards Trickster suddenly becoming >10% ahead of Fatebound for all content.

The talent causes Adrenaline Rush to drop a smokescreen that causes all attacks to reapply Fazed, and this Fazed stacks up to 3 times.

The smoke lasts for 10s after AR cast and then persists 10s after you leave the smoke. Then Fazed will stay at 3 stacks until it naturally refreshes, so it lingers a bit longer than 20s.

3 stacks of Fazed means targets take 24% extra damage instead of 8%, and also take +150% crit damage from builders instead of +50%.

The 5% damage reduction from Fazed targets should also stack up 3 times during the effect.

We use Adrenaline Rush very often so the effect should have ~60% uptime. Blade Flurry will instantly apply 3 stacks to everything around you and keep it there.

Again, Outlaw is suddenly gaining >10% dps and a considerable defensive boost from this talent, provided you can dip into the smoke before it ends so stacked Fazed is up for ~20s.

The bad news is that Trickster is kind of a gameplay downgrade in every way: you have to play Killing Spree, you lose the extra energy and CPs from Fatebound, your RNG curve is much wider, you never finish at 5 so you are constantly having to build at 5 and waste CPs, and you have to play around dropping a smokescreen and dipping into it while moving in keys. But we do get permanent Tricks again.

Trickster ST PTR | Trickster AoE PTR

^Note Flickering Steel is good again, Thief Vers might be 0.4% ahead or whatever, but the energy should be standard

[icy hare]

So we have to have the boss stay in place for 20seconds too for full benefit?

[gaunt phoenix]

sort of, you want to reapply fazed near the end of the effect

so you can leave the smoke but ideally you get back in it before it ends

[icy hare]

Just the player or the boss?

[gaunt phoenix]

the player

[icy hare]

Ok might not be too bad with some hook shenanigans

[tropic zephyr]

ngl this is the definition of a blessing and a curse

[river wing]

ain't it funny how it exacerbates downtime problems

[noble moon]

LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO

[livid trench]

It sounds interesting, I think I will be crafting a myth one hander next week to play some outlaw I’ve been missing the spec

[remote pecan]

I don't know what part of hook shenanigans sounds not too bad tbh

[gaunt phoenix]

it's a lot better than expected, partially because i didnt really think about the high uptime until now, and the fact that the crit damage thing stacks, and it's always active during AR

[glass mortar]

solo

how much do u wanna bet there is zero good way to track the fart cloud duration

[gaunt phoenix]

aka it's going to get nerfed

[glass mortar]

in native wow UI stuffs

[gaunt phoenix]

idk

native no

[glass mortar]

do u think theyll actually be smart enough to give us a "buff" for its existence

we can use to track it

[tropic zephyr]

yeah 100% they just wanted to make the node usable by moving the trigger from distract to AR

[glass mortar]

i think its gunna be doomed

[gaunt phoenix]

can trigger a weakaura that lasts 20s on cast

excuse me a m33kaura

[tropic zephyr]

and they unintentionally gave a 10% buff to the spec

[glass mortar]

its 10s isnt it for the cloud

[icy hare]

I mean this bring us into the top end of the middle bracket of damage right? We’re still not beating Devourer/Demo/MM levels in raid

Surely they don’t nerf unless we’re an outlier

[livid trench]

No just a blade flurry nerf to compensate

[glass mortar]

i pray they nerf so they can give us real buffs and not make us play this awful hero tree

but i doubt they will

[gaunt phoenix]

they probably wont like so much damage loaded into 1 talent

[glass mortar]

well, i could see them nerfing it but probably not enough to make the tree worse then fatebound

[daring oxide]

They will probably nerf cloud cover and buff killing spree

[glass mortar]

if anything i see the other fazed triple bonuses getting nerfed and uptime getting nerfed

no triple crit, no triple DR, maybe like 6s cloud that lasts for 6s after u leave it

triple DR definitly seems unintended the moment they see that itll be gone

rogue passive tankiness? cant have that

spend all ur energy on feint

😠

[daring oxide]

I think 50% chance killing spree gets buffed

[glass mortar]

omg vai is back

[gaunt phoenix]

i want KS to pause AR but that's not happening

[glass mortar]

every ks attack should extend AR by 1 second

🤔

[daring oxide]

KS should give AR

[gaunt phoenix]

idk about that

[daring oxide]

Ye but it’d make sense

[glass mortar]

nah it shouldnt give it

[daring oxide]

You get an Adrenaline rush after going on a killing spree why not

[glass mortar]

but for something thats such a long cast time (for outlaw its long anyway) it absolutely should have some interaction with KS

[lucid sparrow]

stop cooking

[glass mortar]

it just feels punishing to press during it

[gaunt phoenix]

it's possible we KS during AR but immediately cancel it on the global with ss

[daring oxide]

They have the tech to freeze AR

[gaunt phoenix]

at least sims dont seem unhappy about that

[glass mortar]

they could also just you know

oh god im gunna say it

[daring oxide]

So could easily add it to KS anytime

[glass mortar]

someone stop me

give KS 2 charges so you can easily weave them around ARs instead of needing to cast them during

[daring oxide]

Nothing stopping them from doing a change that would make sense and feel good

And we don’t have to resort to canceling KS

Which imo is a dumb design

[tropic zephyr]

so weird

[noble moon]

just turn killing spree into samira ult

problem solved

[daring oxide]

Or make it so that you can still do your rotation while in KS

That’s also good

[tropic zephyr]

yes

[daring oxide]

KS doesn’t need to be a channel

Should just be a gcd

[tropic zephyr]

idk why it should be a channel

[daring oxide]

That does damage for 3 seconds

[jolly geyser]

oh no,what is this pin

[tropic zephyr]

yeah, monks can do that with SCK

just

[daring oxide]

Ya

They have the tech

Just copy paste

Make game good

[tropic zephyr]

give us KS SCK flavored

[daring oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/capybara-capybara-eating-eating-lettuce-veeunus-gif-24649710

Outlaws can be eating goo

Good

With KS improvements

And trickster feels good again

[glass mortar]

they didnt even improve kspree in the dedicated rework it got in tww man....

1000 pages of feedback dumped down the drain

[daring oxide]

Ion wants us to be punished

[glass mortar]

🥵

[daring oxide]

Simply for being outlaw rogues

[glass mortar]

as long as its ion

[tropic zephyr]

other idea: delete KS and the whole trickster tree, buff outlaw +10% and make prep just be a second AR charge

[daring oxide]

Whats wrong with Oreo

Opps

Prep

[glass mortar]

i still think ks shoulda been changed into the crackshot enabler

to replace vanish

and given 2 charges

it even refills ur combo point bar when u cast it

[daring oxide]

I miss vanish crackshot interactions

[tropic zephyr]

AR 2 charges is more versatile that a 4mn

[glass mortar]

imagine u finish kspree and u have a 6s window of no bte cd

[daring oxide]

Maybe that’s what KS should be

After casting 10 finishers or killing your target, BTE has no CD for 6 seconds

Passive KS

[glass mortar]

theres many ways it coulda gone anyway

they picked the worst one by far

never say blizzard will miss an oppurtunity to farm Ls

[daring oxide]

I hope by the time my baby can feed and drink himself outlaw will be in a good spot

And I’ll come back to a fun spec to play

Praying for 12.1 to be outlaw meta patch

[jagged plover]

so paranoid i just automatically assume this is a mistake that will get nerfed because outlaw cannot be good

feel free to surprise me blizzard

[glass mortar]

well

the thing is its probably a mistake but it might last

because in a way, its making many of us more miserable

fatebound is more fun to play by a mile and in addition to the normal stinkiness of trickster you also now have poop fart cloud Rune of power clone to play around

making it even more awful

[jagged plover]

i mean yeah the gameplay isnt even good lol

[glass mortar]

all so u can do better mid damage

i could see it lasting just for the suffering

[tropic zephyr]

it seriously looks like the person that updated the talent didn't math this out at all

[glass mortar]

i mean, its 60% uptime on 16% additional damage amp, how much of a dps boost could that be 3%????

quick maff

https://tenor.com/view/arrested-development-lucille-bluth-bananas-gif-5831031

its funny because even immediatly looking at this thing on the patch note day and doing the napkin math in my head i was worried this was gunna make trickster instantly better

i didnt expect 10% ahead.... but certainly ahead

[tropic zephyr]

or maybe they did math it out and they just want trickster to actually do some tricks

[jagged plover]

maybe they should make it not dogshit to play then

guess that's asking for too much

[daring yoke]

read the pin. what the actual fuck?

[jagged plover]

feel good + tuned good is not on the table

[glass mortar]

its funny to because its not like its even hard to make not dogshit

make the fart cloud follow you because ur a stinky rogue

guys i thought we learned our lesson about RoP like 4 expacs ago...

someone tell the mage dev to email our guy.......

[daring yoke]

i hope the maf is wrong cuz i dont want to play trickster 😭

[jagged plover]

i have a friend who plays mage and he really thinks we're the same because they're doing something to glacial spike

[river wing]

like I keep saying
Outlaw is like
half a dozen small changes away from being genuinely great and flowing like silk

but those changes aren't happening

[tropic zephyr]

At a glance, it looks like they wanted a quirky node with a lot of flavor that was unusable to be played, but they kinda overdid it

[fair topaz]

isn't channeling ks good for our energy? how is our energy looking like with trickster and canceling ks?

[glass mortar]

well during AR ur energy problems are generally hiding

[daring yoke]

how big is the smokescreen? i feel like playing around this gonna be so cancer 😭

[glass mortar]

a little smaller then the actual pvp talent smoke bomb

not by much tho

probably like a 6 yard radius it looked like?

[daring yoke]

ah shitt

[river wing]

wait they turbonerfed the radius?

[jagged plover]

guy posted that from ptr i think

[glass mortar]

no 6 yards is big

[river wing]

that looks larger than 6 yrds

[fair topaz]

it just feels like fatebound has more energy effecting nodes/rules with getting more cp, finishing at 5,... so 'm worried energy will feel bad as trickster

[jagged plover]

radius vs diameter

[glass mortar]

it does trickster has more variance partially because when it low rolls it suffers tremendously

[river wing]

bc it will

[glass mortar]

it has less resources then fatebound

and u waste more of them to boot

[gaunt phoenix]

it is good for energy, but we dont really need that during AR, at least not in the opener

energy is a bit worse as trickster overall

[glass mortar]

at least we dont need to go for 30% haste like beta tho right

imagine if we had to pull together new gearsets next week just for tricks

[gaunt phoenix]

No, maybe on specifically vanguard/dragons you want a big haste setup

[tropic zephyr]

we'll porbably want 25% haste again i guess

[junior folio]

What are the changes to trickster? I can't seem to find anything?

[wintry solar]

The old notes

[gaunt phoenix]

https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/2270121-1205-ptr-development-notes/

scroll down a bit

or ctrl +f rogue

[junior folio]

Thanks, so basically it's the new cloud talent the big ruckus I assume

[gaunt phoenix]

yea

[junior folio]

Is it gonna give us a big more aoe burst possibly

[glass mortar]

technically it does make the profile burstier

but uh

idk if u can ever call something with 60% uptime "burst"

[junior folio]

True, it's just options you can play around

[near rock]

that is substantially more that I expected @gaunt phoenix

and I had high expectations

very nice

those numbers should unironically make outlaw good on beloren egg

[glass mortar]

that sounds like a stretch

[near rock]

lok was doin 200k on it

[junior folio]

If good you mean not dog water

[near rock]

and now u buff that burst profile by what like 20%?

since u save prep for it

[tropic zephyr]

200k is like 100 parse wtf

[near rock]

240k is better than every sub and sin log I looked at for lust

[normal quail]

do ppl care about normal/hc parses

[quiet ore]

Sub also gets this remember

[near rock]

true but sub doesn't get prep

but yeah

sub looks cracked with it

on beloren

fuck im typing like zac

[junior folio]

When you think it's an outlaw buff, but it's sub propaganda

[wintry solar]

A lot do but not guilds that run mythic a lot

[quiet ore]

I mean, we should have cloud cover more often than sub does

So it should be better

[glass mortar]

idk i see lok saying outlaw egg damage is meh

its just high variance

u could do 240k on egg

if u mega highrolled

[junior folio]

Should be better ig, but depends on how many targets you got

[glass mortar]

relying on rng to have useful damage on a fight isnt great for prog

[normal quail]

we reran normal and my guild was like nowone gives a fck about normal logs. Was sad

[quiet ore]

Jackpot +7x ace goes hard, two-roll + no ace does not

[glass mortar]

but it certainly helps the profile for it

yup exactly

and completely outside ur control

u could save up AR and prep for it and do 140k dps on egg or 240k

[wintry solar]

Yeah normal you'll have a harder time looking for someone that cares lol

[glass mortar]

and trickster has even more variance then fatebound

[junior folio]

At least you can put 2 points in ace now

[quiet ore]

To say nothing about the crit rate on those bttes 😭

[glass mortar]

i dont think this change is going to move outlaw from among the worst dps specs in the game for egg to a strong one but it certainly moves us in a better direction

guess we'll see in a week anyway

im sure on farm there will be some high roll outlaw logs that look good on it

[junior folio]

When is the patch dropping

[glass mortar]

isnt it next week

[junior folio]

I genuinely don't know

[gaunt phoenix]

it is, the uptime is a bit more than i thought, and the crit damage thing stacks, and it's always active during AR windows

so it looks better than the napkin average

[glass mortar]

if anything gets "nerfed" i see it being them make it so all the other effects of fazed dont stack, just the flat damage

even then it would be a very strong talent node

[quiet ore]

It's also the only thing that could drag HO into relevance again. It doesn't. But it's closer.

[normal quail]

does KS become prio once changes are in then? over BTE

[gaunt phoenix]

the crit damage thing is 25%? more builder damage

pistol shot becomes the same dpet as a coup

[dim parrot]

So

[quiet ore]

KS is already prio over btte

[gaunt phoenix]

No

No its not

Bte is prio

[dim parrot]

Is this a 10% buff if they don’t nerf it and cloud uptime is 100%

[normal quail]

ok good

[dim parrot]

Like time inside cloud

Without having to get out for mechanics etc

Nice boys back to using cloak to survive to increase damage

[glass mortar]

i mean cloud has some design to help with that, it lingers after you leave for 10s, the cloud itself is only 10s(?) long

so you can dip in and out of it for its duration

my worry is how we will even be able to track the cloud duration

to make sure u dip ur toe in at the last second

[gaunt phoenix]

yes, you just need to dip in by the end

i dont think smoke stuff will be a big deal

just extra thing to think about

[glass mortar]

its also not exactly what id call fun gameplay

it should just follow us

[wet rock]

Has anyone found a nice UI or some kind of way to see what you get from roll the bones?

[quiet ore]

The cooldown manager

[gaunt phoenix]

almost everyone uses the cooldown manager to display your rtb buff

1 2 3 4

[wet rock]

Ahhh that makes sense

[kindred basalt]

dark bad bright good

[near rock]

jackpot icon makes my monkey neurons fire

[junior folio]

Outlaw mains are just adrenaline junkies

[wintry solar]

This RtB made the vein run dry

I'm not getting my fix

[glass mortar]

first buff is a skull because if u roll 1 buff ur dead in the water

good stuff blizzard very clever

jackpot 1 dice again because midnight budget couldnt afford 4

[dreamy pecan]

[near rock]

I'm gonna say it guys

im gonna do it

outlaw is so back

[unique fulcrum]

when

what did i miss

[keen belfry]

A WA that triggers off spellcast

[glass mortar]

oh yea

let me just

pull up my WA rq

ty babe ur always so helpful 🥰

still havent gotten zac to make me a glowy PS WA

[keen belfry]

Download m33k it takes a second

[glass mortar]

is it like actual old fashioned WA interface

i dont need to do coding bullshit?

[keen belfry]

I’m just sad cuz the gameplay of trickster is that bad

[keen belfry]

Yes you just download a file and place it in your addons, it’s like 4 files

It’s just not packaged by curseforge

[glass mortar]

no i mean making the actual meekauras

not installing the addon

[keen belfry]

Zac will make one

100p

[glass mortar]

he never shared his RtB bug checker tho...

what makes u think hes gunna share....

he hates us...

[keen belfry]

I’ll make one

[glass mortar]

i mean he hates everything but also us....

[keen belfry]

And not share

[quasi verge]

Trickster again 🥀

[gaunt phoenix]

trickster seems to really like kir on 3

in case you wanted even more gamba

[keen belfry]

Sup lil bro

[quiet ore]

I, too, like to kir on 3, and like to gamba

[keen belfry]

Do we want more haste

[quasi verge]

whaddup gang

[glass mortar]

makes sense more of the power is being focused into AR and 3 buff is what gets you higher AR uptime

[glass mortar]

i do, i do not however like the tradeoff of 1 buff uptime going up

or existing at all

id prefer to kir on 2 forever over having 1 buff even once ngl

[quiet ore]

Sometimes we suffer for our addiction

[glass mortar]

always, we always suffer for our addiction as outlaw

blizzard really be like "oh you want to do good damage? heres rune of power you stinky smelly rogues"

[keen belfry]

Yuh I did some keys with 3+ only kir approach, bad vibes

[gaunt phoenix]

i think not substantially so

maybe a bit

[keen belfry]

Solo with trying to only kir 3+ are you rtbing on cd?

I wasn’t

But idk how the sim wants that

[gaunt phoenix]

No it seems you will just sit on 2 and not kir it

so you can go the entire pull with no kir

but the promise is there

[keen belfry]

I did no enjoy that for the few keys I did

[near rock]

I already do that, perfect

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

nice

[near rock]

kiring a 2 is a mark of shame

I won't be branded with

[keen belfry]

My 1 buff uptime was too high for me

[quiet ore]

Do not accept mediocrity

Believe in the highroll

[near rock]

believe in it with no sleight

[quiet ore]

Manifest it

[gaunt phoenix]

I think kir on 3 will become the default and kir on 2 will be the yappy alternative if you dont like it

[agile orchid]

is Preparation still not affected by CDR?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes

prep on cdr would be ridiculous

[quiet ore]

I was doing something a bit more nuanced where I generally KiR'd on 3 unless I was out of tea with a long tea CD left, because one roll + zero energy is the worst of times

[gaunt phoenix]

that's fair

[quiet ore]

That was just for my mental though

[halcyon chasm]

a group saw an outlaw queued up and invited out of curiosity just to have the outlaw wipe the group by covering all the mechanics with smoke bomb

[river wing]

"Never inviting an Outlaw (or a Rogue) to my groups again, this is unacceptable behaviour" - says party leader, a 2.8k RIO BDK

[ashen void]

im only a little scared that the fartcloud will be like unholy dk's defile and it will be impossible to see anything underneath it

[quasi verge]

certainly they update the visuals for it right???

right??

[river wing]

we are already a cognitohazard, it will be fine

[pearl topaz]

im looking forward to blazing it

[novel birch]

This feels nice

[hardy wigeon]

elite comp has dropped

[lucid sparrow]

yea

this little talent gonna end up

setting outlaw back 10 years

[keen belfry]

Imagine they nerf outlaw not the talent

[lucid sparrow]

thats what i'm expecting honestly

[novel birch]

This was a +8 too, so that's pretty damn good. I did like, three times less than that a few weeks ago cause I wasn't playing right

[still matrix]

how much do we lose not running killingspree in trickster

[still matrix]

ill die

[glass mortar]

killing spree is like half if not more of ur total unseen blades as trickster

it a massive loss to not run it

probably makes the whole tree unviable, ud just run fatebound if u were considering that

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah well

the whole blade coup thing is pretty secondary to cloud cover atm

[glass mortar]

heres solo to tell me poop cloud is so big u dont even care about coup gen rn

[gaunt phoenix]

this is removing ks

[glass mortar]

LOL

ok im still living in TWW midnight is fried

[gaunt phoenix]

it's entirely because KS is eating AR globals and their cooldowns are basically sync'd

[glass mortar]

so what ur saying is trickster with no kspree is still gunna be substantially ahead of fatebound and even a viable choice

did they do the math even once on cloud cover

[near rock]

2% is chunky tho

[haughty moat]

ill pay 2% to not play ks tbh

[glass mortar]

2% to not suffer thru kspree is nothing

[gaunt phoenix]

ks is more annoying than actual suffering

[near rock]

you guys make it sound like pushing the button kicks you in the nuts in real life

[glass mortar]

it does

[haughty moat]

fr

[glass mortar]

me when i give the (ex) fastest spec in the game a 4 second cast bar for some reason

[keen belfry]

If we can get this closer to 1% I’d just drop it

[glass mortar]

a fellow man of culture awang

[quiet ore]

I'm pretty sure it's hard to maintain flawless form without KS

[keen belfry]

Well I’m always flawless and in form so

[glass mortar]

cant matter that much if its a 2% loss in sims rn to just drop the talent tho

ig if solo finds more optimal usage for it with ar itll be more of a loss

[keen belfry]

Yuh

But idk what u can even cook up

[quiet ore]

Prepull ks

[gaunt phoenix]

for now it seems that BTE Prep BtE is more than important than trying KS before prep

so you can basically prep regardless of ks

[fading igloo]

Having to stand in a smoke screen sounds kinda scuffed, like in a dungeon do you then basically want to wait for stuff to be gathered before even popping Adrenaline?

[glass mortar]

it lingers as a buff on u for 10s after u were in it

so u really just need to dip in and out at the start and end of it

as long as u touch it right before it despawns you get basically max duration

but yes if you will be making significant movement you would need to sit on AR because needing to grapple back the cloud then back to the pack would still be a dps loss of some degree

[fading igloo]

Yeah....like for raid it still sounds awful, certainly don't enjoy Outlaw for being confined to a circle on the ground but for M+ that completely blows

[glass mortar]

yup 🙂

[fading igloo]

What's the point of perma tricks being back if I can't even pop Adrenaline on packs before we are nearly done moving..

[glass mortar]

wont be a serious issue for dedicated groups where u know where ur tank is gunna be taking the packs they are gathering prob

certainly more annoying in pugs tho

[fading igloo]

Yeah for sure, sadly I pug 80% of the time but we'll see how it all turns out/plays when we get it

Worst case scenario I reroll to Spriest and find inner peace

[glass mortar]

and some fights will make it stinky like alleria i can already imagine

hell even vos when hes doing his beams or adds or w/e

u move a very significant distance that could make it difficult to get back to ur cloud to refresh ur buff

[keen belfry]

this is funny but good revelation

and surely we delay 2nd AR a few seconds right

for max fart uptime

[glass mortar]

sub and outlaw fartmaxing the rest of the season starting next week

what a timeline

[keen belfry]

i really like the premise of fartlaw

like we are gonna look back at s1 as fartlaw

and i also do think the idea of fartlaw, boosting our dmg during AR even more is good

[tropic zephyr]

this is sad ngl

ofc the solution is to buff KS damage, not rework it

[mighty pivot]

triple KS damage and make it hit targets you're not in combat with

it will be the demo lock experience

[tropic zephyr]

[river wing]

Accidental Killing Spree

[mighty pivot]

not accidental, just doubling down on the random target thing

you know what make it hit friendlies too sometimes

[glass mortar]

i was just about to say make it truly random

ninjarobot with the takes as always

its point blank firing wildly, why shouldnt we be able to hit our allies?

as long as the damage gets added to my details why would i care

[mighty pivot]

exactly

[glass mortar]

the question is will the BF off hits on allies cleave to allies

and apply fazed to allies

!!

tfw u make ur tank unable to parry

[ashen void]

Rogue utility finally alive

[halcyon chasm]

What did you change?

[novel birch]

https://discordapp.com/channels/124169701881282560/1491146942313660446

@halcyon chasm

[keen belfry]

with flawless form, are our BTEs going to hit like a truck

[glass mortar]

i mean

how many heads coins is 3 stacks of fazed the equivalent of

[keen belfry]

like a 20% dmg buff on a max zero in stack supercharged BTE

true

[glass mortar]

im sure fatebound has the potential for just as high max hits

but probably much more rare

but maybe not fazed + flawless form stacks?

[keen belfry]

I’d guess avg dmg goes up of bte right?

It’s kinda wild how hard BTE can hit

It’s like the highest dmg button in all of wow

[glass mortar]

average damage on everything should go up i dont think unseen blade does nearly as much as coins for fatebound

[near rock]

which means...more burst...guys we're going to burst so hard now

[glass mortar]

so the damage has gotta be made up somewhere

[near rock]

higher than ele shaman on god

[glass mortar]

.....

[keen belfry]

It is

[glass mortar]

it is certainly the highest damage ability of the fartlaw rogue

i'll give u that

[keen belfry]

Not many buttons in the game hit for 500k in ST cuh

[glass mortar]

pretty sure our ddh hit for a milly on a star crit on some boss

im sure there are quite a few nukes that hit for 500k

not on the reg obviously

[keen belfry]

It’s up there

[glass mortar]

actually im bored at work let me peruse wcl a bit and see what people r hitting for now a day

[keen belfry]

Even the average cast is super high for most things in the game

BTE literally just hits super hard

[hardy wigeon]

dont let people lie to you that you need meta comp

[glass mortar]

fdk reapers mark hit for 550k in first frost dk log i look at

so they have at least 1 thing

on to the next

[keen belfry]

i dont think ive seen a single frost dk this tier kinda wild

like holy moly this was in my salad kill last night

542k BTE CUH!

[placid ocean]

Phase 1 alleria?

[violet osprey]

is this legit?

for m+?

ive seen noone talk about that trinket

[glass mortar]

you havent seen anyone talking about gaze?

[violet osprey]

meant the second one 😭

[glass mortar]

i mean all those trinkets are like jack/squat difference in dps under gaze

no idea what kinda profile bloodmallet is running with

theres alot of trinkets within a small margin tho yes

[halcyon chasm]

We've been monitoring feedback on outlaw rogue utility and decided to make it a more attractive option for group composition with the following change:

• Fatebound: (NEW) Flipping a coin subtracts one gold from your inventory. Allied players may catch your Fatebound coins to add to their gold total.

• Roll the Bones: (NEW) All players in the rogue's group also roll their own set of bones. Whoever rolls the highest receives one gold from every player

[peak dock]

Im pretty happy of permatricks back but does this mean our stat priority change?

[near rock]

not really, you maybe want a tiny bit more haste

[peak dock]

We going to need more haste and less crit?

[remote pecan]

nah just dont cancel KS as fast when you're low

[tropic zephyr]

rn optimal haste is around 21-23% with standard builds, since we're losing the energy regen of FB by going trickster we're probably gonna need flat 25%

[near rock]

which with the addition of turbo boost tuesday, should be easy to hit 🙂

[tropic zephyr]

yeah the cap is not hard to hit

[glass mortar]

isnt "turbo boost" just upgrading trinkets and weapons

weapons have jacksquat secondaries on them so idk how much its gunna help hitting haste thresholds

[tropic zephyr]

we just have the bonus roll next reset no? or did I miss something

[glass mortar]

yes but i mean

[tropic zephyr]

yeah you're sniping for trinkets

[glass mortar]

sure i guess thats part of turbo boost, just feels a bit weird to me since thats just giving more loot of the same ilvl not boosting ur max ilvl gear

id say we get "turbo boost" and "dinar" on tuesday

[tropic zephyr]

y

i'm not doing any MM rn but I guess im gonna need to spend hours pugging chimaerus

cause

like

[glass mortar]

being able to get more loot drop and semi target them will certainly help with stats

[tropic zephyr]

bonus roll on hm is so cringe

[keen belfry]

since u aint autoing during ks u are basiocally get 0 energy during its channel

[tropic zephyr]

and no zero in

huh this spell

[keen belfry]

very interesting right

why cant u just summon an aura around urself like immo aura

and just remove the channel part

would be +100000%

[tropic zephyr]

yeah that would be banger

[keen belfry]

idk team i just ran out of tea after hitting the 5 target dummies for 1min 20 sec

as trickster

idk!

[quasi verge]

dont say dat..

[remote pecan]

hope you're not British

[keen belfry]

tea party type shit

taxation without representation type shit

[glass mortar]

its just higher variance you'll be fine

sure you'll hit the lows more often and suffer infinitly

but ur highs will also be higher (numerically)

🥰

the dev saw us yapping about how fatebound law has the same variance as law last expac and took that as a challenge

[keen belfry]

im serious what is going to hapen in low target cleave

will u just choose between not building keeping bf up

[inland meteor]

do we use KS single target once trickster becomes main?

[tropic zephyr]

I guess the 2T boss in windspire will be no BF outside of AR angle

[mighty pivot]

try running 35% haste

[tropic zephyr]

5head

100% haste = infinite energy = infinite GCD mashing = infinite damage

[midnight granite]

Dispatch should just passive cleave 3 targets and bf for more

[glass mortar]

take more haste

[midnight granite]

[glass mortar]

unironically even fatebound on dedicated 2-3 target fights was looking to target a bit more haste

trickster almost certainly will

u could also just eat the fat L and not care because we are dumpster tier at low target cleave anyway tho 🥰

do ur boss damage babe

[remote pecan]

ryu?

[mighty pivot]

the prophet

the guy knew 2 years ahead of time

[tropic zephyr]

BR builds into full hase

he knew

[keen belfry]

i think the highest i can get to is 27%

[tropic zephyr]

he foretold

anyways, the pure energy gain from haste is pretty bad no?

[keen belfry]

nearly 400 mastery

[mighty pivot]

repair your gear

[tropic zephyr]

low durability

[keen belfry]

meh

[mighty pivot]

is that with haste flask and oils?

[keen belfry]

yuh

[mighty pivot]

secondary stat food too?

[keen belfry]

29% with food

like if ur first 2 rolls are stage 2 u stop functioning a minute into sustained 5 target aoe

fyi

[mighty pivot]

wait is that the helmet from caverns? that one has no haste

[keen belfry]

i have no haste helm

[mighty pivot]

that's like 70 haste right there

[keen belfry]

i think every slot has haste besides the helm

can get to low 30s with helm

[random stirrup]

ur a burst spec now bud

surely you have energy in AR

[mighty pivot]

you pool energy before ar

[vivid vessel]

I think you guys play P2 different than we did, outside of the one where boss swap platform while you have to aim, I can always aim while hitting boss if I do it correctly

[tropic zephyr]

this whole thing

is so cursed

[keen belfry]

i lasted longer with 29% haste

[glass mortar]

you need good endurance to properly fartmax awang

keep practicing

[near rock]

Yeah he is doing it differently than us too

[keen belfry]

i will be curious if pressing BF at 5CP is bad now

to maximize energy

[near rock]

I have almost 100% uptime on alleria outside of the one obelisk spawn in p2

If you get picked

We also have like 2x as many melee though so odds you get obelisk are so much smaller

Honestly not a terrible fight for law

[vivid vessel]

Ye

We have 5 melees I think

But ye

Outside of that one spawn

I mean honestly at first I was losing uptime

Till I found a trick

To mind control my tanks

[near rock]

Ye tank positioning matters a lot for not fucking the melee obelisks in p2

[vivid vessel]

Cause I was spawning it behind which in theory is fine unless tank decide to fuck off away for whatever reason

So now I just spawn my obelisk ahead

So it forces tank to not be able to go away

Legit just mind control them

[near rock]

It’s def not dimensius level I just think the way they’re doing the fight is cursed and he low rolled hard on the kill

[vivid vessel]

i didnt see if you killed it yet

[hollow temple]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
• Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent

[vivid vessel]

you didnt

[hollow temple]

do we profiles for ui?

[vivid vessel]

there is one chinese guy that did tho

didnt do insane either

[near rock]

Nah we almost did last night but healers threw a lot

[vivid vessel]

ye

healer only fight legit

[near rock]

Would have ended like 150-160k

[vivid vessel]

i felt like

i had boss figured out

in like

4/5 pulls in p2

and then

[remote pecan]

ahh man we used 3melee i had liek every obelisk -_-

[vivid vessel]

you have to wait for healers

to learn fight

very boring !

[near rock]

Ye it did feel like one of those fights

[vivid vessel]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxlEIqdaOpQlGFDaKNJHZkhJIjH0QGYabO?si=9dBwkYJnPGpHYLlN also

i swear this happened to me a lot

[remote pecan]

nice miss

[vivid vessel]

ye but i dont miss it tho

[remote pecan]

yeh only cause she capped energy lol

[vivid vessel]

what

no i mean its purple beofre i look back down again

and i dont move after that

no movement input

but when i look back up the guy is still here

after that i decided to never take my eye of the guy again

and it never did that anymore

[static crescent]

I have never played Killing Spree, does it "burst" in a sense when used?

[gaunt phoenix]

no

[vivid vessel]

no

its jsut a bad spell

[gaunt phoenix]

its lower damage than bte

[static crescent]

Oke, so essentially when using it its not like ur popping cds, its there for the triggered effects

that sad

[glass mortar]

it hit hard last expac

they neutered it this expac for some reason

[remote pecan]

new tech blizzard track eye movement, you HAVE to look at it

[glass mortar]

during kspree u were legit doing the same damage as an average crackshot window last expac

[vivid vessel]

find me a way that its worth to always cancel it insta solo

and we are balling

[glass mortar]

i feel like its too much of a drain on ur energy for a build thats already struggling with energy for that to ever be optimal

if u cast it and instant cancel u just ate the fattest energy L

in adr u just dont really care

[vivid vessel]

fuck you weran

[glass mortar]

ok

[long barn]

I’m guessing no chance we get them to redo KS again

[vivid vessel]

no bro

it was too much work

[glass mortar]

we couldnt even get them to iterate on the redo of ks bro

we had like a 5 page feedback thread of ideas and feedback

[vivid vessel]

redesigning the ability from the worse spell in the game to the worse spell in the game

[glass mortar]

and they didnt implement a single one

they just went with what they had planned then buffed it 16 times until it was "good"

then in this expac nerfed it by 60%

enjoy

[long barn]

Sigh

Also. Last night in my 19 Seat, the big dudes at the end of dung have eyes now. Like yesterday in my 18 they did not.

[static crescent]

Is it just me or trickster seems like its easyer to play then fatebound

[long barn]

Did I miss something?

[glass mortar]

it has less rules so it should be easier

assuming u played it last expac its kspree rules arent really different

[static crescent]

Yeah, guess it doesnt have the pistol shot thingie

[glass mortar]

and u dont have the 1 CP SS optimization

and u dont ever finish at 5

[static crescent]

ye

[glass mortar]

but u'll have fart cloud to keep u engaged with it next week so

[tropic zephyr]

idk but we fucked up by doing a shroud route for the last two big guys in MT, cause MDT said they had no eyes

and

they had eyes

and we were sad

[long barn]

I literally think it was changed overnight

[tropic zephyr]

man shroud

is useless

[glass mortar]

sir shroud is for getting allies who died back up to the group without pulling random pats

[static crescent]

Oh well, still more tuning to come soon so lets see, 10% gain does seem like a lot

[glass mortar]

shroud skipping was outlawed like 4 years ago

[static crescent]

might be even doing tank damage in bigger pulls now

[glass mortar]

please update ur expectations

[vivid vessel]

hotfixed

gg noob

rogue utility ws too big

had to nerf

[tropic zephyr]

imagine giving rogue aoe blind

would be too op

[glass mortar]

zac they should change mind numbing shiv effect to steal the next spell slowed by that npc and let u recast it by activating shiv again

thoughts?

[long barn]

Trash

[glass mortar]

seems like it fits our theme dont we rob people

[long barn]

Shiv should be a spell reflect

We steal the spell and send it back

[glass mortar]

this could never be broken and they have surely forgotten all the lessons of dark sim

[rancid silo]

it be cool if maybe it was a deflect

or parry but not for actual spells if you know what i mean

[glass mortar]

if you feint and receive a spell attack within 0.1s it should reflect it at the caster

🤔

[keen belfry]

im very curious how much new ace will help with energy

even if u have to build after, its max 1 build vs maybe 2 with old ace

and its more resets

[glass mortar]

usually 1 with old but sometimes 2

[vivid vessel]

2 ?

[glass mortar]

now its usually 1 but sometimes zero

should have at least some effect

[vivid vessel]

its always 1 wdym

how come 2

[glass mortar]

?

with old ace and 1/2 ace?

[vivid vessel]

no you are right

[keen belfry]

ye

ty

[vivid vessel]

you get to 3 cp

[keen belfry]

lil bro

[vivid vessel]

if you dont proc

but i always proc

or you have fth

skill issue if no proc

[glass mortar]

probably not massive but it should increase energy efficiency a bit

[keen belfry]

i saw zac doing a skyreach and was 2 buff for whole first area and first boss

so stfu zac

[placid ocean]

The blood DK in my key group does as much damage as me

[unkempt dew]

Why can’t I copy and paste someone’s details profile? Am I missing something?

[keen belfry]

less building and more resets

good

[glass mortar]

man when i go an opener and go 2 buff preroll > first loaded dice 2 buff > prep adr reroll 2 buff

i just wanna leave the key

ngl

[keen belfry]

and u will run out of teas by pack 2

FYI

[gaunt phoenix]

skill issued

[glass mortar]

xd

[keen belfry]

im not joking if i roll 2 2s i run out of energy like a minute into these dummies

[glass mortar]

KiR + 1 buff state when

[vivid vessel]

i remember that one

luckely

it will happen more

with .5

cause you lose sleight

[keen belfry]

mhm

[gaunt phoenix]

and dispatcher

[glass mortar]

banger

like when i stub my toe real bad in the middle of the night walking to the toilet and think for a moment I might need to go to the ER because its probably broken into a million pieces

that sorta banger

[river wing]

still wondering if we can lose acro for sleight ngl

in AoE at least

[keen belfry]

autos fuck

and u still roll 2s with sleight

imagine being perma 2 buff with no acro

[gaunt phoenix]

its fine

[keen belfry]

vibes???

[gaunt phoenix]

0.3% for better variance

do it

[keen belfry]

can u do same for st

[gaunt phoenix]

0.9% st

[keen belfry]

mmmmmmmmmmm

maybe............

[wet rock]

Does outlaw pump in m+? Compared to other classes that do

[keen belfry]

there are a few classes no one can touch, but it does fine damage in m+

[frail veldt]

yeah very middle of the pack

[sullen walrus]

can some1 tell me, how zac did this black thing on spells?

[frail veldt]

sleight has lower variance than acro?

[tight kernel]

How sad am I if a mf monk be rolling out of cloud and shi

[frail veldt]

16% dps sad

[keen belfry]

dont u mean ebon might?

[tight kernel]

Bro idk

Aff be a little high moving monk doing party tricks with rolls an shit

[tight kernel]

It’s my lizard arc goes hard

[keen belfry]

arent we just going to blast next week

10% dmg

10%

[vivid vessel]

ye big number

[keen belfry]

u can do arms warrior dm gnow

[tight kernel]

I’m waiting for blizz rugpull and gut talent

[cinder relic]

Rogue is so back with one simple trick

[keen belfry]

does rogue get more gravedigger procs cuz coup and finishing at 6+ or is it offset by KS and less cp gen

[desert tendon]

i love the "this is cool but you ll have to play dogshit KS"

cant have a full win

[cinder relic]

What if you like ks

[desert tendon]

Then you re happy

[fallow hinge]

[glass mortar]

ks and rune of power

🙂

[still matrix]

Anyone got a visual of what the new cloud cover looks like or how big it is?

[glass mortar]

it looks like smoke bomb and its about the same size

[still matrix]

ah ok

thats not actually that big then

[glass mortar]

theres a few pics in here if u check links over the last day

[still matrix]

smaller than a death and decay

from what i remember

[desert tendon]

Smokebomb is bigger than it looks

i can say that

[tropic zephyr]

Frankly, ks is bad but it's the energy Regen that I'm concerned about

[glass mortar]

tricksters rules just suck

[desert tendon]

bad energy regen is for our combat lovers nostalgiabait

here i said it

[tropic zephyr]

At least coup has the same prio as dispatch

[cinder relic]

It's about the size of dnd

Plus the effect lingers after u leave

As long as Ur in it, when it dissipates u get max value

[glass mortar]

was there anyway to track the duration of the cloud on ptr?

idk how much testing u guys did with CDM and whatnot

or am i just doomed to wait for zac to make a m33kaura for it and share with the class

(he hates sharing)

[cinder relic]

Didn't at all

[fathom bramble]

We must be playing a dk/ret only strat

I guess it’s dead atleast so I don’t have to care anymore

[vivid vessel]

this is how we do it

see how i position myself in front of boss

thats to mind control the tanks so they cant go away and escape me

[fathom bramble]

Yeah

[vivid vessel]

only set it doesnt work is the one you swap platform

bet you could make it work tho if tank swapped earlier

but they dont care about melee uptime so

wiat what

[worthy ice]

is outlaw welcoming community to new players?

[vivid vessel]

why does assa get fixes

[worthy ice]

can i sneak in

[vivid vessel]

to bad things

and we never get anything

[cinder relic]

Like the community or the playstyle

[river wing]

it is not a fix, Zac

it's a stupid bloody thing

[vivid vessel]

wdym its not a fix

it fixes assa in low keys

[tropic zephyr]

I just read about the Ascendant Voidcore, if I get hero track trink I can just upgrade it to 298?

[river wing]

because it's 1) a talent 2) a choice between "DM buffs your damage by 10%" and this

[vivid vessel]

ok

well

rogue dev

cant ask for too much

[worthy ice]

rogue dev try so hard

and you are still flaming him

[vivid vessel]

yes

he is very hard working

@mighty pivot stays there

[mighty pivot]

a fix would be adding it baseline to the ability

[vivid vessel]

is there a list of spells

that are whitelisted

[mighty pivot]

not adding it to talent that you don't want to ever skip

[vivid vessel]

buffs/debuffs

[desert tendon]

zac

[vivid vessel]

i didnt think it would be a talent you would skip

[desert tendon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1212526973830570026/zachate.gif

[vivid vessel]

but thats such a classic rogue thing

that it make sense

[desert tendon]

why are you already jealous

when rogue isnt in patchnotes he cries

[worthy ice]

zac is solo reason why Realz no longer talk to us

[desert tendon]

when rogue is in patchnotes he cries

[mighty pivot]

https://www.wowhead.com/spells?filter=131;1;0

[vivid vessel]

youy are goated

[mighty pivot]

I know (not really, the goated guy was the dev who poked wowhead to add this filter)

[echo tapir]

aoe blind is back?

les go

[desert tendon]

where aoe kidney

[echo tapir]

fr

[vivid vessel]

i wanted to check if they finally added the key dbeuff

[worthy ice]

they did not let us enjoy aoe kidney

[vivid vessel]

but i guess not :D

every mob

in keys

has this debuff

or buff i guess

and its seemingly not a problem

[desert tendon]

or replace aoe blind with aoe gouge that gives 1cp per target hit

[vivid vessel]

oh well !

[worthy ice]

you want it in your aoe rotation

[vivid vessel]

was wondering if you could maybe exclude every first buff of a mob in key

but i dont think you can cause sometimes it doesnt show in first

[mighty pivot]

yes I don't think the order is guaranteed

midnight feature to see junk auras everywhere

at least they hid the debuff you get in m+