outlaw

[vivid vessel]

was trash in tww

still trash in midnight

will follow me forever

[frail veldt]

Hero talents made wow worse

[wintry solar]

Absolutely

[vivid vessel]

ye for rogue

for sure

outlaw without hero talent is so much better

like lmao

[wintry solar]

Double coup was the only good part

[vivid vessel]

get me out

i beg

fucking hero talent this

[unkempt dew]

How is the energy with trickster?

[vivid vessel]

hero talent that

[vivid vessel]

WORSE BRO

LMA

O

[unkempt dew]

Fack

[hollow bloom]

More haste stacking it is

[vivid vessel]

you thought energy was bad as fatebound ?

its worse

HAHAHAHA

[keen belfry]

It’s really bad

[vivid vessel]

fucking hell bro cut my cock clean off

[real flicker]

[vapid sundial]

zam,n

zac is real dooming rn

how bad it is it atm

[gaunt phoenix]

just the new trickster talent is completely busted

but trickster outlaw is just worse gameplay in every way

[vapid sundial]

true

it uses ks still?

dogshit

[vivid vessel]

trickster now magically does 10% more damage
trickster has worse energy, you have to ss at 5 cp litteraly everytime because no fatebound cp so you overcap infinite cps
you hjave to press killing spree

also the thing puts a puddle on ground

that cover puddles

and you cant move out of it

[vapid sundial]

hahahah

[vivid vessel]

peak gameplay

[vapid sundial]

wtf is that

nasty

[gaunt phoenix]

big stinky cloud

[vivid vessel]

outlaw can never win bro its crazy

[weary goblet]

Well good morning

[vivid vessel]

we got a buff and they had to nerf bf to compensate

and now this

same thing all of tww

please just give me one win

i cannot handle it anymore

even the ace thing lmaooo

[hollow bloom]

Probably have to remake the outlaw spec all together at this rate

[vapid sundial]

i mean

[frail veldt]

Only way to win

[vapid sundial]

i wasted 2 month sub

wcyd

[weary goblet]

I got a win IRL recently, and after yesterday's vault i almost quit the game

[vapid sundial]

game just isnt fun

dont trust the devs worth a damn

Outlaw is like

SIGW

tbh

(self inflicted gunshot wound)

[weary goblet]

Rogue is like a litmus test for self hatred

[vapid sundial]

wait

one sec

one sec

one sec

[weary goblet]

[wintry solar]

It's also a durability test to see how much you can stand

[vapid sundial]

#outlaw message

[weary goblet]

The cruelty of the devs VS. The indomitable rogue spirit?!

[weary goblet]

I do not separate our specs, this is my class and I love (and grieve) all specs

[vapid sundial]

I seperate them

bc outlaw is the red headed step child

acting like its not is just delusion atp

[hollow bloom]

Just go again, make outlaw the tanking rogue spec.

[vapid sundial]

Idk i love wow, i love the gameplay

i do not love the devs or decisions

wcyd

[weary goblet]

I'd love if we get a heal and tank spec - make us the ultimate flex class, like druids

4 specs

[hearty edge]

they'd all be undertuned

[hollow bloom]

Soooo, season 1 is now done with this. Rolling healer to help the dad guild.

[vapid sundial]

Im just finding other stuff to play for 2 weeks

then i have new d4 to look forwards to

[eternal hound]

Once i have 3k across two toons

I'm done

[blissful gate]

maisera puddles

hey bro we heard you like green…

[errant field]

Did anyone bind the ranger trinket to another ability?

[vivid vessel]

dont bind trinkets to spell

[eternal hound]

also btw

[vivid vessel]

press it when you should

[eternal hound]

Do we optimally take prep in keys?

am I trolling not doing it?

[weary goblet]

As a solo pug r*gue, I have to do a bit more m+ for mount. Solo play with no group sitting at 3.3k 🙁

[eternal hound]

a level of gamer I will never be

[weary goblet]

Not anymore, I'm employed now

Less time

[hollow bloom]

Im not patient enough to do that grind

[eternal hound]

Yeah no

All 16s on rogue I'm good

I'll pass

[wintry solar]

Being a casual is peak tbh

[foggy cove]

wait

trinkets dont use themselves automatically?

[blissful gate]

i need to open my vault for my key to depleteo in pug

but my guild threw and we didnt kill saladbar last night

i think i just take chim belt

[pearl topaz]

yeah just let us tank

dont do it the way they tried in SoD though

we already have the tank damage part down

[sonic pawn]

what do you guys reckon ive already kill h chimerus this week.

[vivid vessel]

thats mythic no ?

gaze is good

[sonic pawn]

no heroic

[vivid vessel]

oh really

[sonic pawn]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

gg !

[sonic pawn]

haha

[vivid vessel]

good luck with your choice bud

[sonic pawn]

Yeah its a conundrum

In terms of damage gain the trinket > chest > cata gloves although gloves and chest are close for me

[weary goblet]

Could be. I did what I could as one and solo. Curves 1st weeks, 3/9 myth and now need 85 ish more io for 3.4k

It's just super rough getting into groups for 16s or higher

[sonic pawn]

@vivid vessel The voidforge upgrade is only for trinkets and weapons yeah ?

[real flicker]

as outlaw you are actually locked up with phys comp

and there's only mages and warlocks in lfg

[weary goblet]

I play all 3 specs, for 16s,i feel more confident on Assa atm

[real flicker]

wanna try assa too

[weary goblet]

Feels less punishing when you are trying to survive

[long barn]

What’s all this nonsense about a new trickster build

[weary goblet]

Idk about new Trickster. There is a new DS build with over 1k haste

[gaunt phoenix]

it just the new trickster talent is ridiculous

so we will universally be trickster again

but i need to resolve some stuff before pins and shit

[weary goblet]

Is that ptr stuff? I don't keep up with that

[gaunt phoenix]

yes

[weary goblet]

Ah OK, gonna wait for you to figure it out

Thanks in advance

[long barn]

12.0.5?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes

[cinder relic]

Next week!

[vivid vessel]

spec ruined T minus 1 week

[livid smelt]

I haven't looked at the changes yet anything good for outlaw?

[vivid vessel]

no

just 10% more damage randomly

in exchange for dogshit gameplay

[cinder relic]

The killing spreers rise up

[vivid vessel]

yes we all love killing spree woohoo

[keen belfry]

we r going to blast next week

and get bf nerf

[vivid vessel]

would be so funny

if they nerf outlaw

instead of hte talent

[keen belfry]

what if this is thanos tier for us

[vivid vessel]

ye after progress a classic

nerfed before next tier

[river wing]

wait what
cloud cover is a 10% boost?

[gaunt phoenix]

more than that

[vivid vessel]

ye idk im not surprised if you try it ingame its kinda bonkers

you instantly get to 3 stacks so you go from 8% damage to 24%

and you stay that way for 20s

every 30s

cause we adr every 30s

so ye

idk

[gaunt phoenix]

crit damage on builders also stacks up

[river wing]

damn

[vivid vessel]

idk what this means

[river wing]

so we go even harder on crit/haste with trickster because we need like 30% haste for Trickster's energy to suck less?

[gaunt phoenix]

builders have +50% crit damage on fazed targets

this becomes +150% or whatever the math is

[vivid vessel]

hm

weird

doesnt seem intended

oh well

[next wedge]

sorry you hate everything zac

or whatever that guy said

[river wing]

+150% crit damage from +50% base crit...hmmm
shame it doesn't affect finishers, could be some ridic BtEs

[river wing]

ok hear me out
could this be a hidden Lethality synergy with its +20%? like enough to justify not taking DS or Supercharger

probably not if it stacks additively, could be something if it's mult

[gaunt phoenix]

doubt

[vivid vessel]

i simmed all talents

this was the best for keys

which i guess

there is nothing surprising really

its just

[river wing]

looks normal yeah

[vivid vessel]

prep is even better cause of cloud cover

and you need 2 ace

[river wing]

yup

[gaunt phoenix]

prep might be a bit better still

[vivid vessel]

and ye whatever

all is normal

i think the apl is currently cooked

for trickster

[river wing]

prep is now even more of a burst button

[vivid vessel]

but ye

[gaunt phoenix]

Prep and ks is a bit cooked

[river wing]

yeah idk how to play around that, two ARs and two KSs

[vivid vessel]

i need to play it before i get ideas about it

[gaunt phoenix]

thoughts

[vivid vessel]

ye idk

its stupid

how much is it in aoe

was 11% in st

for me

[gaunt phoenix]

like 15%

[vivid vessel]

ye

idk

cant really believe a dev just released a single node

that is worth 15% dps

idk how that ever happens

[inland meteor]

no

[sonic pawn]

@gaunt phoenix are we going back to trickster for all content in aweek ?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes'

[sonic pawn]

oh no

[inland meteor]

im gonna cry

please bury everything related to this and just pretend fb is still better

[hollow bloom]

[sonic pawn]

The only thing good about it is permanent tricks

[hollow bloom]

Trickster Incoming

[river wing]

frankly I'm not taking imp tricks for anything but raid

blackjack is very underrated, esp with reduced Blind CD from trickster

like it's legit a great party-wide save in keys outside of bosses

[icy hare]

Have I missed some patch notes?

[pearl topaz]

are we going to be good

[river wing]

with a +10-15% buff? yeah we are

for a week at least

[sonic pawn]

@gaunt phoenix are the builds correct in the guide or will they be updated "soon" 😛

for trickster that is

[vivid vessel]

well they arent taking the new talent so

at this point you will also need to play 2 ace

[frail veldt]

Isn't it just tricks of the trade?

[vivid vessel]

and we will play prep

[frail veldt]

Like you drop tricks entirely

To get blackjack

[vivid vessel]

and it will go supercharger proly

[frail veldt]

You'll just die lol

[vivid vessel]

so not correct ye

[gaunt phoenix]

give me the weekend please

[vivid vessel]

i mean

.5 isnt out

why update now ?

[river wing]

yes, so you'd have to get the other talent

[sonic pawn]

All good solo just thought id ask

[frail veldt]

I'm not sure I'd survive a key without tricks

[vapid blaze]

what talent u talking about zac?

[vivid vessel]

cloud shitter

[keen belfry]

fart cloud

[vivid vessel]

poopy cloudy

[vapid blaze]

wait wtf does it trigger unseen blade or what

[vivid vessel]

no it does this

[icy hare]

Is .5 next reset or reset after

[vivid vessel]

watch the debuff

24% damage

[vapid blaze]

oh

[vivid vessel]

up from 8%

in aoe

[icy hare]

We’re so back baby

[wintry solar]

Well

[vivid vessel]

20s + duration basically

[wintry solar]

You gotta play trickster

[vivid vessel]

every adr press

[wintry solar]

And KS by proxy

[cinder relic]

[icy hare]

Trickster is a decent playstyle

[cinder relic]

Outlaw prog spec ⁉️

10% buff

Infinite damage glitch?

[vivid vessel]

honeslty idk how this splept trough

cause its also gonna be insane on sub

sub doing 16% more damage in cds?

ye ye

for sure

[cinder relic]

[vivid vessel]

i eat

[keen belfry]

zac

[vivid vessel]

i eat dirt

[keen belfry]

why is it 24% fazed thing?

[vivid vessel]

8 8 8

3 stacks

[keen belfry]

where that come ffrom

[wintry solar]

You eat scraps that the prog raid leaves behind

[keen belfry]

ohi thought it was 5

[vivid vessel]

no its 8

[wintry solar]

Hoodwinked

[quiet ore]

One of the midnight nodes adds 3%

[wintry solar]

Hoodwinked

[pearl topaz]

should we be excited or maintain our despair

[quiet ore]

I know, unexpected since any time we get a "new" node it usually steals power from somewhere we already had

[vivid vessel]

trickster is completly dogshit gameplay, less cp gen, less energy, have to press ks

but you will be doing 10 to 15% more damage

so

your choice

[wintry solar]

ST too?

[vivid vessel]

yes

both

[pearl topaz]

great

[wintry solar]

Crazy

[cinder relic]

KS Gang stay winning

[wintry solar]

I HATE your KS

[cinder relic]

https://tenor.com/view/pig-gif-13058054891114581167

[river wing]

ngl getting to press KS again is the second best part about this

[cinder relic]

How I will be moving on reset

[wintry solar]

I'm open to opinions but sometimes they can be wrong

I gotta position that shiz in arena somehow

This one's a thinker

[deep sequoia]

wait

where patch notes

[river wing]

it's the old ones

[deep sequoia]

aah i see

the cloud cover bullshit

cant wait to do slightly more than the healer next week

[balmy topaz]

Wait

KS is better next reset?

I am going to fucking jump from my house onto the pavement

[mental beacon]

But this sounds like a thing blizz will hotfix when they find out

[frail veldt]

that would be best case scenario

[quiet ore]

What's funny to me is that mist weaver is getting healing nerfed by 5% (and a specific skill by another 5%), but its crazy high DPS is untouched

[mental beacon]

but resto sham huge buffs = good news for phys comp enjoyers

[river wing]

it's not so much better as Trickster is so much better that we're going back to it and KS comes with it

[pearl topaz]

just delete hero talents if its always going to be only one is viable

whats the point

[frail veldt]

there isnt really a point

at best they are close enough to equal that you can just pick whichever one you like thematically or playstyle wise

but that almost never happens

[quiet ore]

TBF, they've been like half a percent off of one another in the past, half a percent is just enough to bias a lot of people here still

[wintry solar]

It happened once and it was a fluke

[frail veldt]

I think they were close one season in ST specifically yeah

theyve been pretty far apart most of the time in m+

[vivid vessel]

if they would be within a percent

people would play whatever they like the most

i can garantee you that

[frail veldt]

that was s2 tww right in st?

they were p much same in st

[vivid vessel]

i dont remember

[frail veldt]

every other season they were pretty far apart

and even in that season trickster was miles ahead in m+

[vivid vessel]

i think trickster was ahead everywhere

and trickster had the aoe component

on top

so

[quiet ore]

Running SD over prep is within a percent but we almost all play prep

[vivid vessel]

i find prep more fun

[frail veldt]

cuz we like prep

lol

[vivid vessel]

and the first time i simmed it

it was simming worse

by 0.3%

and i chose to play prep

so i own you

now it sims higher idk

or the same

[frail veldt]

my issue with hero talents is that they often reduce build variety

cuz they amplify some specific mechanic/ability

[vivid vessel]

my issue with hero talent is that they are both shit

[frail veldt]

so they actively fight the talent system

[vivid vessel]

and you have to chose the one that stink the less

[frail veldt]

so even when they are functioning well theyre still taking away from other systems of a spec

they kinda just dont work

[vivid vessel]

Issue rn is outlaw itself anywya

Fatebound fixes it magically

But having every builder building you to 5

But you aren't allowed to finish at 5

Cause you have 7 cp

Is dogshit

[river wing]

prep is like
another save in case of a bad roll streak

[quiet ore]

You also have to keep in mind that unlike prior ol, we have basically permanent broadside now

[vivid vessel]

Which we had also in tww but ok

Also idk what that changes

[quiet ore]

Just that some of the resource gen "fix" is coming from core kit, not just hero tree

[river wing]

actually not sure why Buried Treasure is just gone
could be part of DT for all we care

[vivid vessel]

Ok but in tww we had 70 to 80% uptime on all buffs aswell

And fth gave more cp

It's not that different

We didn't have this issue in tww

I don't remember that lol

Idk the spec rn would play so much better if you had 6 cp max

That's a truth

SS proc puts you to 5 cp
Ps puts you to 5 cp
Ace puts you to 5 cp

Like

[quiet ore]

You want only 52% ace chance instead of 60% on a max CP supercharged btte?

[vivid vessel]

Ye I couldn't care less lol

[river wing]

actually I've been meaning to ask
why do we want to finish at 6+ CP for BtE? just better efficiency or what?

[vivid vessel]

I would much rather not have to build at 5 cp Perma bro

[vivid vessel]

Yes

Outlaw is a spec that very much likes to utilize all the cp pool we have

It's very rare we finish -2 under

We did in sl with broadside iirc

Actually that might have been -1 still

And we capped otherwise

Cause SS gave 1 to 2 cp

And rn fatebound finishes at 5 only because coin and apex are both triggered at 5 only and don't scale with cp

Which tilt the balance just enough

[quiet ore]

I enjoy how with 4cp ace there's a 20-40% chance to not need to build after an ace proc. It's very reactive.

[vivid vessel]

What about a 100% chance

[river wing]

could be
100%

[vivid vessel]

Would your enjoyment be ruined if you had to not build after ace lol

[agile orchid]

realz's would

[quiet ore]

After playing 2cp ace for awhile and always building, it's a nice change of pace

[agile orchid]

he had a hard-on for making outlaw clunky

[vivid vessel]

Well that wasn't a change realz made so

[agile orchid]

pretty sure he nerfed it the first time

because he didn't like you sending another finisher right after

[vivid vessel]

Maybe

[agile orchid]

or maybe it was another combo point generating talent

I don't remember

[vivid vessel]

Not it was ace

But they unnerfed it right away

[unkempt dew]

I don’t want to play trickster

[vivid vessel]

Cause it was bad :D

But we don't learn

Never

[unkempt dew]

Also I will be dying a lot because of the damn cloud

[river wing]

isn't it like
huge

[agile orchid]

enjoy your new death and decay

[river wing]

unless it's a gravedigger instead

really throws you off ngl

[hollow bloom]

Projectile delay lolz dev so funny

[quiet ore]

No, what throws me is ace is instant but gravedigger is delayed by bullet travel time

[river wing]

I wonder how that even happened
like what's the implementation there, did the dev just put in "on hit" rather than "on spell cast" or smth

[vivid vessel]

Yes but it's worse than that

Bexause bte didn't have a projectile

So there was no on hit delay

They added a projectile

With a travel time

And then they copied ace but hooked it to projectile hit instead of cast

Like

It's more work

For worse result

Wow !

[sullen glen]

guys i did AR on bubble and it didnt reset does it resets or ?

[vivid vessel]

Pre key

[wintry solar]

They attempted to make outlaw a midrange spec but pulled back and that's just remnants

[wintry solar]

Wouldn't we always build still?

[vivid vessel]

No with 2 ace sometimes you get lucky and don't have to build at 5 cp :D

[wintry solar]

Wtf lol why?

[frail veldt]

ruthlessness sometimes gives 2 cps

[wintry solar]

Oh right

Neato...

[river wing]

when

[wintry solar]

It's a tinfoil theory

That I made up in the spot

[river wing]

they gotta be believable friend

[wintry solar]

Nuh uh not if it's tinfoil

If it's believable why tinfoil?

[waxen scarab]

Whats better at cosmos us or sub?

[vivid vessel]

Us or sub?

Is that a real question

[young prism]

I'm still laughing at this hahah

[vapid sundial]

i mean its so funny too

cuz that just showed how incompetent blizz is

[inland acorn]

We knew it from long time ago though

[balmy topaz]

[waxen scarab]

Skill issue

[remote pecan]

well i mean outlaw is a sample size of 1 and assa 3

[fathom bramble]

pretty sure that fight is a dimensius level disaster anyway

for the strat people are using

you are essentially expected to be out of melee range if you get targetted with anything at certain spots in the encounter

and by running minimal(3-4) melee you get targetted all the time

on that particular sample of 1 there was a lot of very unfortunate, but not that unlikely timing

[river wing]

yah

it's just not good for 'law

[jagged plover]

what's new

[balmy topaz]

It sway thing sbut

This fight is dogshit for outlaw

Any fight with downtime we know is dogshit for us

And the damage we do actually do

[harsh cape]

Can any connoseur summarize what is expected to change numberswise for rogue specs in 12.0.5?

[balmy topaz]

Is a fraction of the others

[river wing]

outlaw/sub prolly gonna run trickster for everything, due to cloud cover it's like a 10%+ damage buff
that's all

[balmy topaz]

wtf is cloud cover

Did I miss something

[river wing]

outlaw is gonna run 2 ace but it's damage neutral basically

[river wing]

on AR for 'law

[hollow temple]

feels unintended ngl

[river wing]

if it is
we'll see a slapdown the week after

[hollow temple]

the stacks tripling all Fazed nodes

[river wing]

(frankly IDK, I think Rogue deserves the buff, just bring Assa to par)

[hollow temple]

i mean i won't disagree there

[fathom bramble]

even if it didn't triple all fazed nodes it is incredibly strong in general

[hollow temple]

yeah

[river wing]

yah it's still +16% flat damage

[hollow temple]

it just seems to obviously skew trickster into being way too far ahead

[balmy topaz]

But then again

[river wing]

eh it's like any other time

[balmy topaz]

we get the issue

[tropic zephyr]

oh god no

[balmy topaz]

Killing spree fucking sucks

The way the damage

is distributed

[river wing]

KS is so close to being good ngl

like so close

[tropic zephyr]

meh

apart from a cool animation the spell is bad on all counts

[river wing]

legit just

1. make it always hit prio
2. replace "generates CP" with "extends AR by 1 sec per CP spent"

[harsh cape]

wow great news? so we Killing spree gamers?

[river wing]

yah

[hollow temple]

builders critting for 250%

[balmy topaz]

idk how you think KS is good tho

[river wing]

yeah that's gonna be sick lmao

[hollow temple]

and +24% damage on ADR

just seems like an obvious oversight idk

[balmy topaz]

KS is actually omega aids to play with

Especially in m+

[harsh cape]

why?

[balmy topaz]

Because rather than doing dmg to one target

it's random

So you don't actually do prio dmg with KS

[harsh cape]

and?

[balmy topaz]

In keys you want to focus down one target

[tropic zephyr]

and?

[balmy topaz]

The prio mob

[harsh cape]

sure u doing that with all ur other globals right?

[tropic zephyr]

kek

[fathom bramble]

it can also hit things that don't take damage

or otherwise don't matter

[inland acorn]

[fathom bramble]

like the 0 hp skeletons in pit

[balmy topaz]

It's our hardest hitting ability

[fathom bramble]

or the 0 hp elementals on crown that need an arrow to finish them off

[balmy topaz]

In trickster

And with it going on random targets

It's just omega shit

[harsh cape]

sure good remark. Still not that relevant to make me not like it

[agile orchid]

maybe one day they will make it do proper aoe damage

[balmy topaz]

I'm not trying to sway your opinion on if you like it or not

[tropic zephyr]

it's not about liking it or not, it's about the viability

[balmy topaz]

I am telling you a fact in that

[fathom bramble]

you can still like it when it has a major downside like that

[balmy topaz]

It's activly working against what your team wants

[river wing]

just legit make it hit your target and then cleave off BF

[balmy topaz]

in an M+ enviroment

[fathom bramble]

it's just a fact that it massively works against the skill actually being good in realistic encounters

it also makes you actively weaker in those situations if you are running ks in general

[tropic zephyr]

KS most chad defenders: "I like it"

[fathom bramble]

and law does not need more weaknesses

[harsh cape]

Isnt Secret tech just Aoe?

[wintry solar]

You'd imagine this would've been a thing from the get go

[balmy topaz]

There's a difference between aoe and random target selection

[harsh cape]

Well on average its the same

[river wing]

man, like srsly
all outlaw needs is a good second look at stuff that's being changed
like if we didn't get shipped with first drafts every fucking time, this spec would have been king feel-wise/flow-wise

[wintry solar]

Like, it's the 1st thing you do when making an ability

[balmy topaz]

Okay I am not getting through to you obviously

[hollow bloom]

Its ok, he likes it.

[balmy topaz]

He likes it

[inland acorn]

Ks same as sec tech

[balmy topaz]

[inland acorn]

What are we smoking rn

[hollow bloom]

[inland acorn]

I need that in my life

[wintry solar]

Crack it seems

[jagged plover]

you don't have to defend poor design just because you like the concept

[remote pecan]

I think outlaw has reached a point they need to scrap it and rebuild it from the ground up. Like how do they keep making it worse trying to fix it

[jagged plover]

it's okay to criticise things

[wintry solar]

KS glazers in 2026

Wild

[harsh cape]

I mean if you do a stats analysis of it on average it will pick the main target just as many times as other targets. On average that evens out just like an AOE spell

[river wing]

naw it's actually like
maybe six small-ish changes away from greatness

like it's SO CLOSE

[remote pecan]

but those 6 changes never happen other weird shit gets done instead that makes it worse

[wintry solar]

The blizzard classic

[jagged plover]

there's one main target and 5 bad targets

[inland acorn]

W h a t

[jagged plover]

do we wanna rethink whether your statement is true

[hollow bloom]

I remember when KS would teleport me out of bounds and kill me. Oh i miss those days.

[fluid meadow]

they don't want to fix it, just pushing every shit in the game to us,we are testing for others, and when other specs bad things is deleted we get those again

[tropic zephyr]

no, this would be true if the spell lasted for 30 seconds maybe, but it lasts 2s

on a big enough pack, there are times where you hit your prio target 0 (zero) time

[harsh cape]

Across multiple casts it equalises. ITs just rng included

[tropic zephyr]

all packs aren't made equal

[river wing]

but not every pack is made equal

like if you KS in Pit and end up hitting all those HP1 skellies

you did 0 damage

[jagged plover]

if a pack has one prio target and 4 shitters explain how the chance of 1/5 is the same as 4/5

[inland acorn]

You padded for 0 dmg*

[balmy topaz]

That's not how it works

[harsh cape]

Im comparing it to Secret Tech if u didnt follow

[balmy topaz]

Lets say

there are 5 mobs

KS has a 20% chance to hit each one ye?

[inland acorn]

What does sec trch have to do with KS

[balmy topaz]

Sectec you pick the target

[inland acorn]

How are we comparing random ST channel

To aoe

[balmy topaz]

You can't compare

the 2

[jagged plover]

w ragebait bro

[harsh cape]

Isnt secret tech AOE, or it has a funnel element

[jagged plover]

you're either trolling or clueless enough to sound like one

[unborn spire]

!logs

[leaden sonnet]

It does 100 to your main target and 50 to all the other ones (softcapped at 5)

[balmy topaz]

KS does 100% of it's dmg

to the random target

That could be

The 1hp skeleton in MC

Which is pointless

[harsh cape]

Sure then u got me confused the first time I asked about Sectech. I dont play sub..

[jagged plover]

aite den

[balmy topaz]

Why did you compare it

to an ability

you had no idea how it worked

[wintry solar]

Dang I only got 5 mutual servers

[inland acorn]

step up your game popo

[wintry solar]

[jagged plover]

this guy is a blizzard operative designed to tilt us into unsubbing so they can delete rogue

all g

[balmy topaz]

I was trying to help but when you are literally fighting against my reasoning it's hard

[wintry solar]

You know in movies where the villain is monologing while the hero is captured? I feel like that's blizz to rogue.

[balmy topaz]

It's fine to like the concept of an ability

and how it lookms

but when I am explaining the workings of it

idk

[jagged plover]

this ain't like the movies bud we're not gonna win in the end

[wintry solar]

We got the sad ending

[inland acorn]

we will win, by unsubbing or rerolling class

[harsh cape]

It literally is just the same as a full on AOE Ability that has no funnel. U cant pigeonholled to the 2 mobs of all the dung pool to doom about it..

[inland acorn]

what

[balmy topaz]

You compared it to Sectec

[hollow bloom]

[balmy topaz]

And it's not about 2 mobs

[kindred bobcat]

if saome one have time to loock I really appreciate it

[fathom bramble]

actual aoe skills don't do less damage to target 1 when 7 other targets are present(assuming 8 cap)

[balmy topaz]

it's literally every single pull in m+ has a prio mob

[wintry solar]

I get it now. All of his targets are prio at the exact same time

[balmy topaz]

[harsh cape]

U confused me. I asked if its aoe. I obviously didnt know..

[balmy topaz]

What

I gave you the information

[mossy herald]

Big stinker build..

[inland acorn]

that's wrong channel, this is sub log, while we're in outlaw channel

[jagged plover]

why are you arguing about the skill when you admit you have no idea how it works

[kindred bobcat]

sry

[balmy topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/jose-mourinho-sweet-trouble-gif-26762341

[inland acorn]

all g man

[weary goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-yoda-drink-sip-blink-the-mandalorian-gif-16043305

[hollow bloom]

[cinder relic]

Guys

Who is ready

TO trick it tf up on reset

[balmy topaz]

Not me

[wintry solar]

[fathom bramble]

I'm ready to block the floor for my entire team

it will be amazing

[balmy topaz]

wdym block the floor

[wintry solar]

I'm ready to bait trinkets in pvp but that's about it

[balmy topaz]

does it have an effect

[cinder relic]

Its smoke bomb

[balmy topaz]

[fathom bramble]

it's a big smoke bomb

[hollow temple]

[river wing]

me

[fathom bramble]

that everyone can see

[balmy topaz]

THAT GOES SO HARD

[cinder relic]

Nah they nerfed the visual

Doesnt work on other ppl afaik

[balmy topaz]

WE HAVE DOUBLE OUTLAW IN OUR RAID

[fathom bramble]

unlucky

[balmy topaz]

[river wing]

ngl I just want the damage buff
I'm gonna gap my raid mfs so hard with it, I'm already going super hard and barely getting ahead, but +10-15% damage is gonna let me get ahead real quick

[hollow bloom]

Block out the sun with our fart bombs

[cinder relic]

Its kind of redic the node is tbqh

[wintry solar]

Let's hope you don't know that far because that's the only interesting trait

[fathom bramble]

I mean it doesn't do anything interesting or fun

it's a potentially frustrating rune of power esque mechanic

[balmy topaz]

Looks cool af tho

[fathom bramble]

though not as restrictive as rune was

[wintry solar]

I mean blocking the floor

[cinder relic]

I think with the big visual, and the linger it shouldnt be too bad

And either way, with how strong it is on paper over FB, going from x% uptime to x%-5 i don't think will be that bad

People said they wanted cannonball barrage back right

[fluid meadow]

gonna always use it in spire at kroluk when stomp and aoe fear comes and pentakilling the team gonna be fun

[cinder relic]

This is kinda like that

if u squint a little

[tropic zephyr]

https://klipy.com/gifs/skeleton-spin

[fathom bramble]

squint a lot

[fathom bramble]

I mean yeah the most you can possible lose is 50% of the effect

it'll be the best talent of hte 2 choice nodes even in the worst possible case

[wintry solar]

If you look from really far away, close one eye, squint the other eye, and use your imagination, it's almost kinda like cannonball barrage.

[cinder relic]

and still be better than FB

[wintry solar]

I want my cannonballs dammit

[fathom bramble]

imagine how much better trickster would be if it had CBB instead of ks

[wintry solar]

Oh dude good cook

[fathom bramble]

thematically, visually, mechanically

[river wing]

ehhh
I mean it would flow better

but I like the new KS thematically and visually

and was never a fan of cannonball

[cinder relic]

I love new KS visually

I'm ready to party

[wintry solar]

Improper gun safety is not cool

[fathom bramble]

I was never a fan of CBB really either

but that's just how low my opinion of KS is after 0 iteration

[serene urchin]

give me cannon balls bro

[unkempt dew]

But it does not hit very hard right?

[cinder relic]

It activates a bunch of synergies

I dont really look at details

I just play the game

It coudl be doing 50% of my damage for all I know

[river wing]

come to think of it
it's been what, 9 months of no KS iteration aside from damage cuts?

[fathom bramble]

I mean who cares how hard it hits

all that matters is how it effects the rotation

[weary goblet]

I've not been keeping up with PTR stuff, what is coming next reset that has us dooming (something Trickster something) ?

[river wing]

like you fuckin' KNOW if it was a mage or hunter ability
they'd be tuning it every fucking minor patch until it was perfect

[cinder relic]

New trickster talent is shitfuck busted

[wintry solar]

Why couldn't trickster be BR

[cinder relic]

for both specs

So trickster will probably be played in all content on reset

[tropic zephyr]

where my solo pin with solo math

[river wing]

(for one week until the nerfslap)

[cinder relic]

later

[weary goblet]

What does it do and why do we hate it for outlaw?

[river wing]

10% or more, according to prelims

[wintry solar]

What do we swap for double ace and ka

[wintry solar]

KS

[weary goblet]

Rude

[river wing]

sleight I guess

[wintry solar]

Guy likes it

[river wing]

nothing much left to throw out...

[wintry solar]

Eggs act lee

[fathom bramble]

the minor problems with the smokebomb itself aren't really significant in the face of what KS is and does to our damage profile in keys or raid encoutners with meaningless targets

[cinder relic]

The steelman for why people dislike it is because Killing Spree puts a sort of stopgap in the rotation that you have to sit and channel it

The charicature I made in my head is that people are just complainers about things that are different

[leaden sonnet]

Yerp very strong

[wintry solar]

Really? I thought because the prio thing

[tropic zephyr]

also, idk why I care i'm playing enh for now, the time i get back on law this will have been nerfed twice

[weary goblet]

I personally don't mind it, but I can understand why people do

[cinder relic]

that too

[wintry solar]

I hate it because it's a cringe animation and no prio

[cinder relic]

I might lowk push for title this season cuz that mount

[hasty warren]

hi pirates

[cinder relic]

Might be a law push szn

[fathom bramble]

the fact that we clip it is kind of the only thing making the channel feel okay rn

[cinder relic]

All this work for deathstalker all for it to be tossed away with cloud cover

[river wing]

I love the new KS but it could be so much better with so few changes
like very minor ones smh

[fathom bramble]

give it the same damage scaling scheme as sectech

remove it from BF

[wintry solar]

Like a better animation and prio :D

[river wing]

animation is cool

[fathom bramble]

ST + cleave component

[leaden sonnet]

Ye well i wasnt considering the insano crit

[wintry solar]

:|

[river wing]

needs prio
and to not be bad to press during AR

[hasty warren]

not fan of channel ability on outlaw

[cinder relic]

r u that much of a deathstalker truther

[fathom bramble]

the channel should be shorter in general, but AR should also hasten it by the same amount that it hastens our gcd

[leaden sonnet]

No i meant that we hadnt realized the crit damage from trickster was gonna get 3x:ed with 3 fazed stacks

[cinder relic]

Ah right

[leaden sonnet]

But like bruh

Crit variance about to go insane

[cinder relic]

[river wing]

actually
what'd be the loss on taking sleight over acro?

[wintry solar]

Does sub have strong builders

[river wing]

not normally

[leaden sonnet]

Shadowstrike hits decently hard

[river wing]

but with this...

[cinder relic]

shadowstrike is alright

[river wing]

like you'll get hilarious hits now

100k shadowstrikes

[leaden sonnet]

Rotten was already +-0

[cinder relic]

This is like 40 wipes on lura

[leaden sonnet]

[cinder relic]

1 pull specifically

[leaden sonnet]

I was doing 130k on dummies on ptr

without any consumes

[cinder relic]

does 1 single talent save rogue?

[river wing]

damn

[cinder relic]

Wait @leaden sonnet

[leaden sonnet]

Tbf it does feel slightly better to get a new overtuned talent than an aura buff

[leaden sonnet]

Even though in practice its probably the same

[cinder relic]

Thoughts?

Is it time?

[leaden sonnet]

Goremaw does way less than shadowstrike

so no

[cinder relic]

Fuck you

[leaden sonnet]

[cinder relic]

Do u just go mega generator talents

Like PV rotten

[wintry solar]

RiP assa

[leaden sonnet]

Not PV no, but rotten yes. Even without cloud cover its about the same as finality

[wintry solar]

Okay Guy

I'll extend an olive branch

I may be not excited about KS, but I'm not thrilled either.

[daring venture]

Is it the worst extension for the outlaw in wow history ?

[cinder relic]

wdym

Do u mean expansion?

[cinder relic]

Ull be thrilled when ur doing more damage

[wintry solar]

Perhaps

[fathom bramble]

The worst 1st tier, but you can’t judge the expac as a whole yet

[serene urchin]

do we have outlaw sims for all this yet

[cinder relic]

This tier in general was just

Very bad for melee

and rogue just happened to be the biggest victim of this

[daring venture]

Yeah expension mb

[fathom bramble]

It’s a design disaster

F grade

[wintry solar]

My priest friend loves it tho 🤔

[river wing]

wym
devourer is ranged
tier is best ever bc it showcases the new spec in a great light

(all 4 DHs in my raid are still havoc lmaoooooo)

[cinder relic]

I think all the fights have been great

Its just, they are very evil towards melee DPS

[fathom bramble]

The fights are probably fun for ranged ig

[cinder relic]

I enjoyed paladins as a melee, I just didn't enjoy not doing damage

Lura as melee is very fun as well

[fathom bramble]

But I can’t call a fight good or even great with such a huge design hole

[river wing]

yeah pallies are fun, it's just the tuning that's fucked

[fathom bramble]

Paladins was actually fun yeah

Alleria drags the entire tier down for me for now

[cinder relic]

Have u done beloren yet?

[fathom bramble]

Maybe after march I’ll think different in retrospect

Belo is meh

[river wing]

not the first time for her to be dragging things down ngl

[cinder relic]

Lura is such a good fight

Beloren is kinda whatev

[fathom bramble]

Feels like a boss that is suppose to be easy

But is tuned to the moon ?

[cinder relic]

Tuning is odd, but I don't really hate it

I think the actual plan was for alleria and beloren to have swapped pull counts

[river wing]

we had pallies bug out yesterday so we went to march
belo is fun ngl, I feel like it's kinda FFXIVish of a fight somehow

[cinder relic]

Getting used to the whole multi raid thing

Which I honestly like

Its kinda cool that we can clear 6 bosses for vault, and also still extend beloren and go into lura

Like we get to have a lockout, and a vault

Kinda legendary honestly

[fathom bramble]

True

[wintry solar]

Can get different themes too

[cinder relic]

It has its cons for sure

But I do like a lot of the pros personally

[fathom bramble]

Well the biggest con seems to be splits

Idk if blizz will ever really do something about splits though

Since anything that could fix it would have to be drastic and effect the game too widely

[cinder relic]

Theres like 2 issues cuz 1, people, at least around our WR, were already doing mythic splits

the raids being broken up DOES incentivize it a lot more

and 2, are they ever going to design the game around like, the 1k raiders that do splits

I doubt its even 1k in total

[fathom bramble]

I mean they clearly do design the raid around the gear we get from splits

[wintry solar]

I think the general perception is positive no?

[cinder relic]

I think so

[fathom bramble]

And rwf is definitely tuned around their disgusting splits

[cinder relic]

They do also like, rapidly nerf bosses now though

Like I mean paladins got nerfed on the following reset

Beloren did as well

and so did now lura

lura is also getting more nerfs on this .5 patch, but those are to compensate them nerfing healers

[wintry solar]

The raid have good decor? I've been housing and PvPing more than pve lately

[cinder relic]

The trophys are neat for a showcase type room but

Nothing super standout

I need this fucking azkhaet world quest to spawn

and then I get my dark heart decor

[wintry solar]

I've been farming pit for that eye.

[cinder relic]

This is my last achivement

and then I have worldsoul searching done

I was looking back at the dragonflight achviement

But I so didn't play any roleplay shit in dragonflight

theres so much shit I have to do and grind

[wintry solar]

Like rep and stuff?

I did soups but that's it

I still don't get how those hunts work

Or fishing

I'm waiting for weapon racks...

[cinder relic]

Unironically I hope its a .1 feature

[cinder relic]

Its like everything

Its every dragon race, which I did

but then its like, max out the rep of the little timewarden events, and then the daycare

[wintry solar]

Oh you gotta go completionist mode

[cinder relic]

Theres just so much shit to do for the DF one for me

[cinder relic]

Yeah the achviements are "get every achivement related to every piece of content we made" basically

Its called worldsoul searching

Just look at all what u have to do lol

[wintry solar]

I'm scared to now lol

Like a timid creature, I was spooked away.

[wintry solar]

If I can't show off Shadowmourne what's even the point?

Or the best 1h tmog (Dreadblades)

Did they ever say if our alts would be put in the house?

[hollow temple]

but you are your alts

there can only be one of you

[wintry solar]

Say that again

[next wedge]

just checked out the recruitment channel on accident

why do none of them want a rogue

[wintry solar]

I didn't know we had one

[cinder relic]

@fathom bramble

ALERT

ALERT

ITS STILL HERE

HAHAHAHAHA

@leaden sonnet

[wintry solar]

"afaik"
Didn't see far at all

This does make me happy though

[hollow temple]

what, seeing the cloud?

[cinder relic]

Yes

Somebody told me it was removed from other ppl's pov

[hollow temple]

would be kinda weird if you couldn't see it tbh

[cinder relic]

No

[hollow temple]

kinda have to see others cloud

[cinder relic]

This is on my paladin

[hollow temple]

yes

[cinder relic]

I can see

Eleems

[hollow temple]

other people have to see it

for pvp

[cinder relic]

Bruh

[hollow temple]

im deadass

[cinder relic]

This is the new hero talent

This isn't the PvP talent

[hollow temple]

yes

i know what it is

holy moley

[cinder relic]

Bruh

They gotta make it diff

[hollow temple]

why

[cinder relic]

Seems like a bit too much visual clutter

[hollow temple]

turn down other players' effects

gg

[cinder relic]

But hey people said they wanted more visuals from rogue

[hollow temple]

[leaden sonnet]

This is with it turned down

[cinder relic]

Idk if it is

Should I login and check

[hollow temple]

you can turn it practically off

[cinder relic]

Did u wanna try again eleem

[hollow temple]

but idk if that effects seeing raid mechs

wouldn't be able to see darkness/AMZ

etc

[cinder relic]

Log back in @leaden sonnet

[hollow temple]

i'd unironically be pissed if enemy players couldn't see it ngl

[cinder relic]

What's the setting called

[wintry solar]

I think it's also for tanks

[hollow temple]

there's a couple

[wintry solar]

Dude

[hollow temple]

like particle density? and something else?

[hollow temple]

true

your tank seeing it is also kinda important now

[cinder relic]

I'm going to belly laugh on reset

Every time I press it

[wintry solar]

/console spelleffectlevel 300

[cinder relic]

It's actually so good

Nvm I'm going to bed I'll never check the setting until launch

Extremely funny talent

[wintry solar]

Dang it

[cinder relic]

I'm so excited

[hollow temple]

the one shots are about to be so real

[wintry solar]

Do my command >:(

[hollow temple]

100k strikes ez

[cinder relic]

I care about how it looks for to her ppl

Idc about me

[wintry solar]

That's crazy

I'm the opposite lol

[cinder relic]

Ppl said they wanted rogue visuals

[wintry solar]

Idk if you knew this but everyone is a bot but me

[hollow temple]

real

[still matrix]

Can someone tldr the outlaw changes? I dont want to play killingspree

[wintry solar]

The irony is it's so visually visual that you can't see anything else

[cinder relic]

Tldr too bad!

[wintry solar]

https://tenor.com/view/melvin-meme-cat-cat-meme-melvin-meme-meme-melvin-gif-5576245011655696514

[hollow temple]

too bad

[wintry solar]

Too bad!

[still matrix]

Is it actually going to be significant buff to st and aoe going trickster?
Do we have to change rules?

Fuck man

Fuck!

[cinder relic]

Yes and yes

[still matrix]

Ok

When you say significant!

Over 3%?

[cinder relic]

Most likely yeah